Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => AEG ~ Sony => Topic started by: imabeliever2 on December 11, 2009, 09:43:25 PM

Title: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 11, 2009, 09:43:25 PM
I was doing a little research on MJ's Death Hoax and ran across an article on wordpress.com   I was surprised to see what she said about how Conrad Murray came into Michaels life.  I don't know if I'm off track here, but it seems like everything that I investigate points right back to AEG and Sony! As you can see at the bottom of the article is Tohme Tohme's comment....why is he trying to convince otherwise.  It really doesn't make sense as I posted before, that Michael Jackson would hire a doctor like Conrad Murray when he goes all out to hire the best of people to work for him.  Unfortunately there were a few key people whom he trusted who didn't have his best interest at heart....Including Tohme Tohme.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/jackson-tapes-put-manager-dr-tohme-tohme-in-the-spotlight_1113819
MICHAEL JACKSON's former spiritual advisor has come forward with new taped conversations in which the King of Pop revealed he was terrified of his chief aide, Dr. Tohme Tohme


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/michael-jacksons-death-concert-promoter-hired-doctor.html

Also:

Michael Jackson’s Employees Fired Within Minutes

Within 30-minutes from the confirmation that Michael Jackson had ‘passed-away’, all of his personal employees were fired by AEG.   Rather then reacting to the death of Michael Jackson, AEG very methodically fired his staff – within minutes.  It would make sense if this had happened on the following day or even a few days later, but not within minutes.   It almost seems as though this was pre-planned, and that there were a certain numbers of steps to follow in staging this death.  Of course by firing these employees, it would be easier to get access to the security tapes, stage the oxygen tanks and IV stands, throw things around the bedroom, and create the stage for this hoax, since there will be no witnesses.   Also note that days before his ‘death’, Michael Jackson’s employees were not allowed to enter his bedroom.  So no one would know whether he had in fact been taking the drugs or not, nor provide any accounts of seeing the lack or presence of oxygen tanks and IV equipment in his bedroom.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: mjboogie on December 13, 2009, 10:48:57 PM
[Didn't they offer him a doc out of London? Frank Dileo said in an interview that MJ insisted on Murray! :? /b]
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 14, 2009, 03:46:57 PM
I'm not sure about a doctor out of London?  

But from what I understand, Michael's camp is saying that AEG hired him.  I guess there's different versions as to who actually hired (Dr. Murray).  There appears to be different versions of everything associated with the hoax.  I guess we'll need to just investigate it deeper :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: watthhel on December 15, 2009, 08:36:20 AM
Quote from: "mjboogie"
[Didn't they offer him a doc out of London? Frank Dileo said in an interview that MJ insisted on Murray! :? /b]

I also heard that. But dont know where. I mean it was an YT-Vid. (old Forum). Perhaps Murray was the only one who wants to play that game - all for money. And as we see: nothing to loose. No jail, nothing. He was Dr. Murray and is Dr. Murray - or just a comicfigur..... it strange, he was a short time the Doc of MJ and IMHO only one fellow player (Mitspieler in german).
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 15, 2009, 04:43:44 PM
I have a question and would like other members opinions:

I'm starting to have a change of heart regarding Dr. Murray!

Reading that not only did Michael Jackson not hire Conrad Murray himself, but that Conrad Murray had no idea that his new patient would be Michael Jackson?  Which of course, leads me right back to my conspiracy theory!  

If this possibly true wouldn't it explain Murray's panic behavior of disappearing from the hospital, immediately hiring a lawyer, the confused looks of not understanding what has happened, or how he got into this situation, the address to the public, the (real) sobbing in church...... the missing camera footage?  

Could it be that someone really hired (Dr. Murray) for a purpose just to set him up? and with constant financial problems he saw this as just another income opportunity?   I really believe in my heart that this man truly got caught up in something that he was unaware of.  

Again, Michael Jackson said himself that he believed (they) were trying to kill him.  Maybe MJ realized what was going on and then faked his own death, which is where the possible terminally ill body double came in????????    Family, please help me with this one!  I feel like I'm on to something here, but just can't put my finger on it!  Dr. Murray emotions seems to be genuine.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Miss.Peppers on December 15, 2009, 04:49:55 PM
Dr Muray was hired by AEG and he is whining that he hasnt got paid:

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-M ... 31959.html (http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-Murray-Suing-AEG-For-Back-Pay-PHOTO-1031959.html)
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Harleyblonde on December 15, 2009, 04:53:44 PM
I had read in several sources that Michael insisted that AEG hired Dr Murray for him and as they wanted to keep him sweet and happy he had is own way. I do not think they could force a Doctor on a celebrity like Michael or anyone for that matter to be in installed in the home for 24/7, no one could possibly force and insist someone to be installed in a home of someone who objected to it. This was his family home with his cherished children.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Miss.Peppers on December 15, 2009, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: "Harleyblonde"
I had read in several sources that Michael insisted that AEG hired Dr Murray for him and as they wanted to keep him sweet and happy he had is own way. I do not think they could force a Doctor on a celebrity like Michael or anyone for that matter to be in installed in the home for 24/7, no one could possibly force and insist someone to be installed in a home of someone who objected to it. This was his family home with his cherished children.

The puzzling thing is that Dr Murray isnt licensed in the UK and wouldnt have been able to "treat" MJ in London.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Alem (Thetruth) on December 15, 2009, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"
I have a question and would like other members opinions:

I'm starting to have a change of heart regarding Dr. Murray!

Reading that not only did Michael Jackson not hire Conrad Murray himself, but that Conrad Murray had no idea that his new patient would be Michael Jackson?  Which of course, leads me right back to my conspiracy theory!  

If this possibly true wouldn't it explain Murray's panic behavior of disappearing from the hospital, immediately hiring a lawyer, the confused looks of not understanding what has happened, or how he got into this situation, the address to the public, the (real) sobbing in church...... the missing camera footage?  

Could it be that someone really hired (Dr. Murray) for a purpose just to set him up? and with constant financial problems he saw this as just another income opportunity?   I really believe in my heart that this man truly got caught up in something that he was unaware of.  

Again, Michael Jackson said himself that he believed (they) were trying to kill him.  Maybe MJ realized what was going on and then faked his own death, which is where the possible terminally ill body double came in????????    Family, please help me with this one!  I feel like I'm on to something here, but just can't put my finger on it!  Dr. Murray emotions seems to be genuine.


Something that could go along with your theory is that he did state that he was at the wrong place and the wrong time which you tend to say if being innocent little bystander. But this doc is the head suspect not an eyewitness to something right?

But referring to the OP’s subject with Dr Murray, well I have heard stories such as this doc meeting Mike when he was treating Michael’s child Prince for the flue or something similar and that’s how they meet. Murray was also the doctor of James Brown according to some sources.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Miss.Peppers on December 15, 2009, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from:  Something that could go along with your theory is that he did state that he was at the wrong place and the wrong time which you tend to say if being innocent little bystander. But this doc is the head suspect not an eyewitness to something right?

But referring to the OP’s subject with Dr Murray, well I have heard stories such as this doc meeting Mike when he was treating Michael’s child Prince for the flue or something similar and that’s how they meet. Murray was also the doctor of James Brown according to some sources.[/quote

Yes and James Brown also died from a heart attack because of prescription drugs.  

Why would MJ hire him????????
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Secret Dove on December 15, 2009, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"
I was doing a little research on MJ's Death Hoax and ran across an article on wordpress.com   I was surprised to see what she said about how Conrad Murray came into Michaels life.  I don't know if I'm off track here, but it seems like everything that I investigate points right back to AEG and Sony! As you can see at the bottom of the article is Tohme Tohme's comment....why is he trying to convince otherwise.  It really doesn't make sense as I posted before, that Michael Jackson would hire a doctor like Conrad Murray when he goes all out to hire the best of people to work for him.  Unfortunately there were a few key people whom he trusted who didn't have his best interest at heart....Including Tohme Tohme.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/jackson-tapes-put-manager-dr-tohme-tohme-in-the-spotlight_1113819
MICHAEL JACKSON's former spiritual advisor has come forward with new taped conversations in which the King of Pop revealed he was terrified of his chief aide, Dr. Tohme Tohme


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/michael-jacksons-death-concert-promoter-hired-doctor.html

Also:

Michael Jackson’s Employees Fired Within Minutes

Within 30-minutes from the confirmation that Michael Jackson had ‘passed-away’, all of his personal employees were fired by AEG.   Rather then reacting to the death of Michael Jackson, AEG very methodically fired his staff – within minutes.  It would make sense if this had happened on the following day or even a few days later, but not within minutes.   It almost seems as though this was pre-planned, and that there were a certain numbers of steps to follow in staging this death.  Of course by firing these employees, it would be easier to get access to the security tapes, stage the oxygen tanks and IV stands, throw things around the bedroom, and create the stage for this hoax, since there will be no witnesses.   Also note that days before his ‘death’, Michael Jackson’s employees were not allowed to enter his bedroom.  So no one would know whether he had in fact been taking the drugs or not, nor provide any accounts of seeing the lack or presence of oxygen tanks and IV equipment in his bedroom.


Are you saying that aeg/sony hired Murray to kill MJ? Why would AEG fire all of MJs staff? It's odd that they did it 30 minutes after he "died". Acutally, I herd that his staff was fired the day before and I'veal herd that his staff was fired that morning. When was the staff really fired?  :? What would firing the staff have to do with MJ faking his death? Why wasn't anyone allowed upstairs or in MJs bedroom day before his "death" have to do with a hoax? Man, this is confusing!

I agree that we need to investigate this further.   ;)
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: the_gloved_one on December 15, 2009, 05:09:59 PM
Quote
Miss.Peppers wrote:

The puzzling thing is that Dr Murray isnt licensed in the UK and wouldnt have been able to "treat" MJ in London.

You make a very good point. I never thought about licensing issues but, was Dr Murray following Michael to the UK? or was a there a doctor here waiting for him? If Michael was never gonna make it to the UK there was no need to provide another Doc for him. To be honest, i don't understand Dr Murrays role in this - is he being used a scapegoat?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Harleyblonde on December 15, 2009, 05:10:15 PM
Have managed to locate the information. It would also substantuate the hoax if indeed Michael did hire Doc Murray. Please click onto this and read;http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/10/15/the-new-michael-jackson-movie-how-jackson-fought-for-dr-conrad-murray/
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 15, 2009, 05:11:47 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"
I have a question and would like other members opinions:

I'm starting to have a change of heart regarding Dr. Murray!

Reading that not only did Michael Jackson not hire Conrad Murray himself, but that Conrad Murray had no idea that his new patient would be Michael Jackson?  Which of course, leads me right back to my conspiracy theory!  

If this possibly true wouldn't it explain Murray's panic behavior of disappearing from the hospital, immediately hiring a lawyer, the confused looks of not understanding what has happened, or how he got into this situation, the address to the public, the (real) sobbing in church...... the missing camera footage?  

Could it be that someone really hired (Dr. Murray) for a purpose just to set him up? and with constant financial problems he saw this as just another income opportunity?   I really believe in my heart that this man truly got caught up in something that he was unaware of.  

Again, Michael Jackson said himself that he believed (they) were trying to kill him.  Maybe MJ realized what was going on and then faked his own death, which is where the possible terminally ill body double came in????????    Family, please help me with this one!  I feel like I'm on to something here, but just can't put my finger on it!

Very interesting post indeed... Well if AEG hired Murray, they must have looked into his former activities, plus the problems the doctor had in the past, to make sure Michael would have been in good hands (for insurance issues)... If AEG hired Murray, they must know about Murray's old "bad" activities right? Then your theory conspiracy could be very possible ... They may have hired him, knowing that because of his "dark past" people would questionning about Murray's behavior, and make Murray a perfect suspect.
But I'm confused, I thought too that it with Michael who insisted on having Dr Murray ... What's the truth?

I have a question...maybe a stupid one but AEG fired MICHAEL's staff ? Is it normal and legal?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Miss.Peppers on December 15, 2009, 05:12:19 PM
Dr Murray is the red herring in all of this.... he is the fall guy
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Secret Dove on December 15, 2009, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: "Miss.Peppers"
Dr Muray was hired by AEG and he is whining that he hasnt got paid:

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-M ... 31959.html (http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-Murray-Suing-AEG-For-Back-Pay-PHOTO-1031959.html)

Go figure! :roll:  I've herd that a AEG failed to pay a lot of people. I wonder if any of the people who haven't recieved payment have been payed yet? :?:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 15, 2009, 05:16:09 PM
Man there are too many different stories ... It's so confusing :S
Yes I agree  it's weird that they hired a doctor who hadn't the right to practice out of the state ... Unless they knew there would'nt have the need to have one ... hoax! or conspiracy...
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Harleyblonde on December 15, 2009, 05:17:01 PM
Sorry-didn't work. Here it is. Was not a trassy tabloid-it was Entertainment magazine.

Though outsiders wondered whether Michael Jackson could pull off the physically grueling task of mounting 50 concerts, Jackson’s collaborators were reassured as they watched some of the world’s best young dancers struggle to match his moves. Still, the pop star did look awfully thin. “I was always handing him Boost drinks and meal-replacement things,” says choreographer Travis Payne. “We all encouraged him to eat as much as he could. But at the same time, I understand: When you eat a lot and then you dance, it hurts. It was all for his art, I think.”

Jackson had insisted on retaining a full-time private physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, who was paid through the show’s budget to oversee his medical needs. Dr. Murray is now the focus of a manslaughter investigation. “Michael was very confident in the doctor,” Randy Phillips, president of concert promotion firm AEG Live, says. “I actually tried to talk him out of hiring him. I didn’t want to spend $150,000 a month on a doctor, since we were playing in London, which has phenomenal medical resources. It was the first time Michael and I had cross words with each other. He admonished me that he needed a doctor 24/7, the same way Barack Obama did, because his body is what fuels this whole business. Michael prevailed on that. And I guess, looking back, we know why.”

For more on the upcoming Michael Jackson movie, including exclusive photos, pick up the new issue of Entertainment Weekly on stands Friday, Oct. 16.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Miss.Peppers on December 15, 2009, 05:21:20 PM
Quote from: "Secret Dove"
Quote from: "Miss.Peppers"
Dr Muray was hired by AEG and he is whining that he hasnt got paid:

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-M ... 31959.html (http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-Murray-Suing-AEG-For-Back-Pay-PHOTO-1031959.html)

Go figure! :roll:  I've herd that a AEG failed to pay a lot of people. I wonder if any of the people who haven't recieved payment have been payed yet? :?:

Think about it... Dr Murray is supposed to have been responsible for MJs "death".
So... why should he get paid????  lol....  he has a cheek demanding money when his client supposedly died!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Secret Dove on December 15, 2009, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: "the_gloved_one"
[quote="Miss.Peppers]


The puzzling thing is that Dr Murray isnt licensed in the UK and wouldnt have been able to "treat" MJ in London.

You make a very good point. I never thought about licensing issues but, was Dr Murray following Michael to the UK? or was a there a doctor here waiting for him?[/quote][/quote][/quote]

According to Frank, Randy, AEG, etc, Michael insisted that Murray came to Lodon. Randy said in an interview that he had a argument with Michael on this subject. He wanted to get a doctor in London because Murray was to expensive, but Michael insisted that he wanted Murray to be his doctor. But Murray not being licensed in the UK would mean that he couldn't "treat" MJ.  I don't understand why MJ would insist that Murray be his doctor in London if Murrary couldn't treat him. Michael must've known that he wasn't licensed in the UK. :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Secret Dove on December 15, 2009, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: "Miss.Peppers"
Quote from: "Secret Dove"
Quote from: "Miss.Peppers"
Dr Muray was hired by AEG and he is whining that he hasnt got paid:

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-M ... 31959.html (http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Dr-Conrad-Murray-Suing-AEG-For-Back-Pay-PHOTO-1031959.html)

Go figure! :roll:  I've herd that a AEG failed to pay a lot of people. I wonder if any of the people who haven't recieved payment have been payed yet? :?:

Think about it... Dr Murray is supposed to have been responsible for MJs "death".
So... why should he get paid????  lol....  he has a cheek demanding money when his client supposedly died!

I wasn't talking about Murray. I was talking about the other people AEG failed to pay. Murray wasn't the only one that didn't get paid. :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Secret Dove on December 15, 2009, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: "Harleyblonde"
Have managed to locate the information. It would also substantuate the hoax if indeed Michael did hire Doc Murray. Please click onto this and read;http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/10/15/the-new-michael-jackson-movie-how-jackson-fought-for-dr-conrad-murray/

How would this article substantiate the hoax if Michael did hire Murray? :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 15, 2009, 06:02:20 PM
Guys I know that we've gotten information on who really hired Murray from many sources.  As investigators, maybe we should be "open minded" meaning listening to what one group says, then the other side.......the players, emotions, behavior and finally logic.  Michael said verbally himself, not to believe everything that we read.   This is where logic comes in.   Would Michael have screened this doctor and hired him personally?  As some of you posted.....Even though the doctor couldn't practice in London.  His children, would he had wanted a desperately financially suffering, knowingly shady doctor around his children???  As far as Dr. Tohme.....why was he was truly afraid of this man.  Was he afraid of him for no reason???  I'm just saying we need to investigate the situation more.  We have to look at and disect everything.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 16, 2009, 11:53:52 PM
http://showbiz411.blogs.thr.com/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-meet-doctor/
How Could Conrad Murray Meet Jackson in 2006?
By: Roger Friedman   //   Sunday July 5, 2009
We continue to read stories about Michael Jackson’s live-in doctor, Conrad Murray.
Murray’s attorney and others around him insist that the doctor met Jackson in Las Vegas in 2006. They say one of Jackson’s children was ill, and that the doctor was called. Out of the blue.
But the timeline is wrong: Jackson was not in the United States in 2006. He left Los Angeles for Bahrain in June 2005. He didn’t return until December 23, 2006. On that day Jackson brought his family to Las Vegas from Ireland, where he’d been after a stay in France following more than a year in Bahrain.
Could Murray have met Jackson during the last week of 2006? Even that’s doubtful. After checking out his new home and celebrating Christmas, Jackson went to Augusta, Georgia, on December 30th for James Brown’s funeral.
What’s more, sources from Jackson’s camp at that time say none of the children were ill. “And if they were, why would he call a cardiologist?” asks one insider. “A pediatrician, yes.”
So the mystery remains about Dr. Murray: who introduced him to Jackson? And why?
This is so true, Why would Michael Jackson hire a cardiologist for his children to treat a cold????   Does that make sense?
It is interesting to note that these odd rumours and stories - apparently connected to the same office which tried unsuccessfully to prosecute Michael earlier this year - have coincided with news of a major new Michael Jackson release

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Hv3FkVOc4
MJ’s timeline in 2006

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/LegalCenter/story?id=816439&page=1
Michael Jackson was acquitted in June 2005
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/10/jackso ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/10/jackson.ranch/index.html)
Jackson has not been living at Neverland in recent months. Shortly after he was acquitted on child molestation charges in June, he relocated to Bahrain, a small nation in the Persian Gulf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch
Jackson said in 2005 that he would not return to the property, saying he no longer considered the ranch a home, feeling the 70 police officers had "violated" it in their searches.[6] In 2006 the facilities were closed and most of the staff dismissed, with a spokesperson stating that this was a reflection of the fact that Jackson no longer lived there.[7]

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/bahrain/jackson-settles-down-to-his-new-life-in-the-gulf-1.222403
Jackson settles down to his new life in the Gulf Steadily easing into his new Bahrain life, King of Pop Michael Jackson has attended a wedding ceremony at the Gulf Hotel and is temporarily moving into a new mansion, sources close to the star told Gulf News yesterday

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b51899_King_of_Pop_Downsizes_Kingdom.html
The singer's camp has determinedly declined to link Neverland's demise to his reputedly dwindling cash reserves. Bain even suggested that the ranch's house was to be closed only because Jackson has taken up residence in Bahrain. "This is a common practice when a residence is vacant for an extended period of time," she said in Thursday's statement


Why would Michael hire a doctor with a past like this, to be around his children?
http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2009/07/conrad-murrays-record-reveals-liens.html
ABC News
July 30, 2009

... In the wake of the investigation, a slew of liens and lawsuits against Murray has emerged. In the last three years, Murray has faced lawsuits for unpaid business bills totaling over $700,000, including rent on his medical offices. He also owes more than $13,000 in child support, $70,000 to a business partner with whom he launched an energy drink called Pitbull, and he failed to pay more than $71,000 worth of student loans from medical school. Murray was also charged with domestic violence in February 1994 while undergoing a cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona at Tucson. He stood trial in July of that year and was ultimately acquitted. ...

Apparently Dr. Murray's Dad had a similiar problem with his license

Murray's Doctor Dad Had Medical License SuspendedBut while he was revered by his patients, Andrews, now deceased, came under scrutiny late in his career, foreshadowing the problems currently plaguing his son. Andrews had his medical license restricted by the board in 1994 for prescribing "controlled substances and substances with addictive potential" to two patients for "extended periods of time without adequate indication," according to documents obtained by ABCNews.com.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 17, 2009, 12:13:24 PM
Wow thank you for this imebeliever2... It's really strange. So we don't know how Michael met Murray, or at least, it's suspicious and we are only told that it was Michael who insisted on having him. How can we be so sure ?
If it was Michael : he must have known about Murray's past.
If it was only AEG : they must have known about it too.
Murray wasn't allowed to practice in England. So they knew they wouldn't have needed him because there wasn't a concert to occur.

Both knew Murray would be the perfect suspect.

As somebody has already said "he wouldn't let a shady doctor around his children". He wouldn't have refused to have Murray ...
But i still have a question ... Did Murray actually treat Michael? If Michael knew about it, he wouldn't have let him treat him right? That's what makes me thinking that Murray would be actually in the hoax, because if he didn't know about it, he was supposed to treat a patient and would have really injected propofol to him.If he was on the hoax then he wouldn't have done anything on Michael, the only thing he had to do was pretending to be Michael personal doctor.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: bad_girl on December 17, 2009, 12:35:19 PM
the whole murray thing, is it not posible that he met MJ when james brown died?? we all know that mj was a great fan of James brown, and apparently murray was JB's doc too, so it's plausible i think
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 17, 2009, 01:32:15 PM
Quote from: "O-drey-O"

I have a question...maybe a stupid one but AEG fired MICHAEL's staff ? Is it normal and legal?

I have a similar question: according to Randy Phillips it was COLONY CAPITAL who called him and asked to arrange a set of concerts for MJ in London (after MJ peviously refused to do such). Isn't Colony Capital a real estate firm? How could they be representing MJ on such matters? Isn't it the work of manager or whomever that worked FOR MJ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauHdberFw8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauHdberFw8)
it's here, 2:43
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 17, 2009, 03:33:03 PM
Thank you guys so much!  I know that we all have unexplained questions regarding this issue.  I for one will spend time researching as much as I can to get our questions answered. Like I said earlier, the more I dig into this, the stranger it gets.  Also, we all know that Michael had a problem with prescription drugs.........but, sorry I don't believe for one minute this was his doing alone.  I haven't done much research on the drug dependency situation with Michael.  but,I do believe that it was introduced into his system unknowingly.  "thats just my opinion"  Too many people have said that he was a health nut.  Of course we don't know what happened in that house yet, but I honesty don't think that Dr. Murray was in on it.  Look into his (Murray's) eyes, its like he has no clue whats going on.  Look at the video on the day he was in church.  Yes I do believe Murray was hired by someone trying to destroy Michael.

Michael had connections with many people.  Reports say, that some were mafia affiliated.  I for one believe Michael when he said that they were trying to kill him. Remember he said this same thing to his sister.  I believe that Michael having to hoax his death was for his own protection.  I have linked a video of activist, health guru Dick Gregory, one of Michael Jackson's Advisors.  In the meantime, I will continue to research and research the research over and again.  Please continue to help with this one!

http]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/reed/detail?blogid=96&entry_id=44089

To me it almost sounds like Dick Gregory is saying Michael felt this way because he was dehydrated and delusional.   But according to reports he told LaToya the same identical thing!  Question is was he dehydrated and delusional then also?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 17, 2009, 03:58:28 PM
Delusional? I don't think so either. Michael was not only an artist but also a real powerful business man. He knew this world very well I think, and if something was going wrong, he must have known it. If he was afraid for his life, he must have had things that make him think that...Things that we don't know...
Let's say Dr Murray didn't know about the hoax, and that Michael escaped before June 25th, the doctor did inject propofol to someone right?  Then who??
I don't know I'm confused... I'll try to dig into it a little deeper too. :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 17, 2009, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: "tinker_bell"
Quote from: "O-drey-O"

I have a question...maybe a stupid one but AEG fired MICHAEL's staff ? Is it normal and legal?

I have a similar question: according to Randy Phillips it was COLONY CAPITAL who called him and asked to arrange a set of concerts for MJ in London (after MJ peviously refused to do such). Isn't Colony Capital a real estate firm? How could they be representing MJ on such matters? Isn't it the work of manager or whomever that worked FOR MJ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauHdberFw8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauHdberFw8)
it's here, 2:43

Thank you for quoting this, I thought nobody have seen it lol. I don't know about it... I really don't... It's strange :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 17, 2009, 04:18:20 PM
@ O-drey-O:

Strange to say the least! I get a clear feeling that everybody's doing the wrong parts in this story, just look at it:

- Colony Capital arranging the concert deal (instead of MJ manager at the time)
- Fans informing Joe Jackson and Frank Dileo of Michael's being rushed to the hospital (who are those FANS???)
- AEG firing MJ staff (again instead of estate administrators or family)
- Jermaine announcing MJ's death (instead of medical chief officer or whatever person in charge)
- TMZ providing all the major 'hot' news starting from MJ death to investigation (instead of more or less reliable sources like CNN, AP or else)

and finally people in Internet doing the investigation instead of police and press!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 17, 2009, 08:58:01 PM
Guys you're not gonna believe this!

There was a pic as well.  Unfortunately I don't know how to post the pic. here.
While doing research I found out that Dr. Tohme Tohme and Randy Phillips are very close knit brother-n-laws
Former brother-in-laws - As thick as thieves? According to records from ancestry.com -  the world’s largest family history website - Dr Tohme and AEG Live bos Randy Phillips were related by marriage back in the 1970’s.
Dr Tohme Ramez Tohme (d.o.b. 1949) married Janet Phillips (d.o.b. 1953) on 29th January 1972 in Sacremento, California.  The pair subsequently divorced in May 1976 in Sacremento, California.
Marriage  -  State file: 7307; Reg no: 289
Divorce – State file: 664652; Dissolution case no: 716055
It has been confirmed by an insider that Dr Janet Phillips, now a Clinical Psychologist working at a practice in Torrance,  is indeed Randy Phillips’s sister.
Does this provide a link between the “mysterious” Dr Tohme and AEG Live boss Randy Phillips? Did AEG live play any part in manipulating and isolating MJ? Was Dr Tohme on AEG lives payroll? The plot thickens…….

I also want to share this video with you:
http://popdirt.com/michael-jacksons-dou ... ohme/75731 (http://popdirt.com/michael-jacksons-doubts-about-tohme-tohme/75731)

I was trying to find out if Tommy Mottola is affiliated in any way with Tohme, Randy Phillips, Al Malnik.  Unfortunately, I haven't as of yet.  

http://mjjtimeline.blogspot.com•   May 5 :
Raymone Bain, Michael's former manager and spokersperson, files a lawsuit in Washington D.C claiming breach of contract; quantum meruit and unjust enrichment and she asks for 44 millions $.Dr. Tohme Tohme is officially terminated as Michael's manager and disbarred from having any subsequent affiliation with him or any of his numerous established entities (including MJJ Productions and the newer MJJ Kingdom).Michael hires Frank Dileo as his new manager.

Please note that while I was following a path with this investigation I ran across another site investigating that were doing the same.  

http://www.michaeljackson.com/at/node/356158 (http://www.michaeljackson.com/at/node/356158)
It looks like their investigation stopped October 22nd. shortly after they received information that their site's forum is was secretly being monitored and to be careful what they report.  They noted that all posts done linking Sony and AEG to Michael's death were being deleted.   IDK.........Maybe we should follow suit????  

With all this said, I'm even more convinced that Michael Jackson did not hire Conrad Murray!  If Michael was introduced to Murray, I'm wondering if any of the above mentioned had anything to do with it????
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 17, 2009, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"
I was trying to find out if Tommy Mottola is affiliated in any way with Tohme, Randy Phillips, Al Malnik.  Unfortunately, I haven't as of yet.  

Tommy Mottola had connection with John Branca though:

http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2009/10/ ... ction.html (http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2009/10/brancamottolla-connection.html)

Actually i've been reading this blog through and there are several interesting articles on the subject, there are certain links between Branca, Mottola, Thome, Colony Capital and AEG
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 17, 2009, 09:45:31 PM
More it goes and stranger it is ...
I don't know how you guys find all this things but you're doing an exellent job!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: the_gloved_one on December 18, 2009, 09:15:40 AM
Dr Murray supposedly gave Michael Valium, Ativan and Versed (all these drugs are classed as benzodiazepines).
If all the above didn’t work is there a possibility that Michael had become resistant to sedation with the use of the as benzodiazepines (I’m still researching if this is even possible), giving Dr Murray no choice but to use propofol?
There are so many unanswered questions….
 Did Dr Murray have access to Michael’s medical records? Being his personal physician one would assume so?
If Michael suffered with insomnia for some time any medication used to treat this condition in the past would have been documented in his medical records – right? Why give a patient medication that will have no effect?
And the most important question – why was a cardiologist with a shady past treating a chronic insomniac?  Murray was out of his depth. A doc specialising in sleep disorders would have done the job just fine, surely this would have been the best option for Michael! Whoever hired Murray did not have Michaels best interests at heart...something more sinister is going on.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 18, 2009, 02:26:02 PM
You're absolutely right, gloved_one! Why hire a cardiologist for a sleeping disorder :?: Why hire a cardiologist for a child with a cold :?:  It makes no logical sense.  Why was Michael telling those that he trust "They're trying to kill him"  But we also have to look at Michaels actions.  Apparently, as Michael stated himself he felt his life was in danger and was afraid of what those handling his business affairs were capable of doing to him.  It bothers me that either no one took his "cry for help" serious.  Michael actions tell that he was scared for his life.   During his trial he hired an investigator Noval to investigate the possibility of someone setting him up, after meeting with Noval, MJ saw or felt that Noval didn't have his best interest at heart.  He eventually hired the Nation of Islam for personal bodily protection. I've read that some of his family members said that Michael is too trusting/naive and have allowed the wrong kind of people into his circle.  As we've discovered many of these powerful men in his circle of life had somekind of connection to each other, one way or another.  They would do a good deed for him to gain his trust.  As Michael stated in the telephone conversation, Tohme, had isolated him from everything and everyone that he loves. Things had gotten to the point that Tohme was in full control of his life.  

Apparently, Michael's problems started when he publicly called Mottola out.  But moreso, I believe after Mottola instantly lost his job with Sony.  If Michael no longer took care of his business/personal affairs then who hired Murray.........the person who was taking care of all his business affairs and life...........most likely Tohme!  

I believe Dr. Murray was hired for Michael, MIchael met Murray, liked him/or his personality or what they told him of Murray and agreed.....again trusting the judgement of those he had in charge.  Isn't it ironic how Murray panicked and ran on June 25th or how rumors have started that Tohme Tohme was at the home that day? Why would he be there if Michael had fired him a month or so before this, Isn't it strange that all these guys had some kind of link to each other,  Tohme, Mottola, Malnik, Phillips????? If I'm not mistaken, all these guys have interest in Michael's Estate! Why won't they let Michael's mother see the actual AEG contract?  Better yet, why the missing video footage?  Why did Tohme have over 5million dollars of Michaels money and expensive items from his home which were only surrendered after Michael's family questionioned the missing money.  http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-estate-concert-promoter-aeg-live-attempts-to-muzzle-katherine-jackson/

It appears they found an innocent doctor with a past and legal/financial problems, a doctor who would be desperate for money and so grateful for it that he would ask no questions, someone who would look guilty enough to be capable of a serious medical mistake. I'm sure THEY deeply check his background first.  Murry stated that what he thought was an opportunity of a lifetime has turned into a nightmare!  Thinking about all of this, I probably would have ran from the hospital too. I believe hiring Murray was a set-up, as stated earlier in this thread, a fall guy!  Someone to cover up their plot!  

If Michael's fans are finding all this, just imagine what his investigators are finding and we don't even have access to everything.

As scarry as it sounds, only a few things could have happened:

He is in a witness protection program, meaning we will never see him again as the Michael Jackson that we know

He lost his life in this mess (God Forbid)

Knowing what they were trying to do to him, he out smarted them and escaped somehow



There are just too many inconsistencies in every area involving this case and obviously Tohme and the gang are having lies published to throw people off. This entire plot isn't something that was planned overnight, but has been brewing for years. I can't remember where right now, but I even read that Paul McCarthy is somehow even linked to one of these guys.  Don't quote me on this one because we'll have to do more investigative research.    


In my heart and spirit I feel he's still alive and well!  Apparently, we all do!  But we deserve the truth of what really happened to our MJ!

I will continue to report everything that I find to support that MJ didn't hire Murray, who did and why.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 18, 2009, 03:07:13 PM
Almost forgot!

This question was brought up here as well.......Colony Capital's involvement in arranging the concert deal.  

I read that Tohme used to work for Colony Capital and that he set up the mtgs. with Colony Capital, AEG and Michael.  So again, this was some of Tohme's doing.....

Here is where Michael agreed to do 10 concerts.......Unknowingly someone changed it to 50 concerts without Michael's knowledge.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 18, 2009, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"
Almost forgot!

This question was brought up here as well.......Colony Capital's involvement in arranging the concert deal.  

I read that Tohme used to work for Colony Capital and that he set up the mtgs. with Colony Capital, AEG and Michael.  So again, this was some of Tohme's doing.....

Here is where Michael agreed to do 10 concerts.......Unknowingly someone changed it to 50 concerts without Michael's knowledge.

Aha! again that Thome.... It's odd that there's no news about LAPD checking on him after it's been explicitly said MJ was afraid of that man and fired him and yet he appeared in UCLA as if nothing happened, may be related to Muray and had his hands in MJ estate... On LAPD official site the last update on the case was on August 28 which explains nothing and ends with:

"The LAPD will not comment on any further aspects of this investigation".
http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2 ... pdate.html (http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2009/08/michael-jackson-death-investigation-update.html)

WTH??? Why such secrecy if that is just a 'doctor' thing.... and yet last month TMZ somehow got information about the "mysterious date" in the case which happens to be (according to TMZ) January 18 and search warrants been unsealed. Wouldn't LAPD wanna comment on that? It's not an average case of shop-lifting, one would expect them to at least make it SEEM they're busy with it  :shock:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 18, 2009, 04:18:20 PM
Thanks tinker_bell, that was great information!

Look at the agencies involved in this investigation:

The United States Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration; the California Department of Justice, Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement; the Houston Police Department and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.  :o

The California Department of Justice and The United States Department of Justice?????

Maybe they are working, but obviously can't share the information.  I think pretty much they would want to stay low-key while they're still working on this case, to prevent interference.  

I don't think all these agencies would be involved for a doctor who accidently kills a patient.  IDK  

Someone else here in another thread stated they read from a statement something about
the public not being able to handle the real truth........I agree!

But one thing that we have to remember is that Michael's circle was with many who were affiliated with the mafia.  We don't know the true reason why....he trusted these people and I know many of us say "he wouldn't allow this or that around his children".  If these shady characters were around him, they were around his children.  

I believe he initially thought these people were good (changed) people. But as he found out better began to try and eliminate them from his life.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: michaelsupporter on December 18, 2009, 04:38:36 PM
I am really confused now. Would someone please explain to me what gave AEG the legal right or authority to fire MJ's staff?  Was Michael owned by AEG? This sounds non-plausible to me and scary!!!!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 18, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"

Someone else here in another thread stated they read from a statement something about
the public not being able to handle the real truth........I agree!

That was in an article by Firpo Carr i believe

http://www.michaeljackson.com/pt/node/427886 (http://www.michaeljackson.com/pt/node/427886)

He is not speaking clear in the article and i don't like when people don't speak clear. Either you say what you have to say or you keep it to yourself. He was another 'spiritual adviser" like that 'Miss Cleo'-looking lady whom Michael called to talk about Thome.... wtf?? "Michael, it's not good! - I know it's not good, that's why i'm calling you!" If he was afraid of Thome why to call that lady, how she's gonna help for Christ's sake?? That makes me so angry and confused! :(

There's another article by Carr:

Quote
Michael's Murky Murder Mystery?  
Written by Dr. Firpo W. Carr, (Columnist), on 09-24-2009 00:00
Favoured 27
 
Michael's Murky Murder Mystery?

"They're trying to kill me"

Though the media hype has died down around the controversial and mysterious death of Michael Jackson, millions of fans from around the world are still keenly interested in how, why, and who was behind it. Interestingly, if there are indeed shady figures involved-and more than a few, including family members, are convinced of this-these suspects perhaps have overlooked the fact that Michael has scores of admirers in law enforcement agencies spanning the globe. A few of Michael's law enforcement friends, as well as amateur would-be detectives, have contacted me with what they consider to be damning evidence showing that Michael was murdered. La Toya Jackson, Michael's older sister, shared her own thoughts on the matter with Barbara Walters in a 20/20 interview that aired September 11, 2009.

La Toya Talks & Tells: "I knew Michael was surrounded by people that positioned themselves in his life," says La Toya, "positioned themselves to control and take advantage of him. And that's what bothered me more than anything else because I knew something terrible would happen at the end," she told Walters. That's not all. La Toya comes right out and says: "Not to mention the fact that Michael constantly told me, 'La Toya ...if I die...they're going to murder me, they're going to kill me.'" La Toya further reveals in guarded language: "I don't know exactly who. I think there are more players involved than we know. This is just my opinion. This is what I feel. I know what Michael was afraid of ... he was afraid of his life. He would say, 'I'm afraid of my life. I'm afraid they're going to assassinate me. I'm afraid they're going to kill me.'"

Declaration to Dick: Famed activist Dick Gregory called me several weeks ago and revealed that Michael Jackson told him that "they (presumably Michael's business associates) are trying to kill me."

When Michael Called Carr: Way back in 2004 during his trial Michael Jackson called me and said that prosecutors knew that he was innocent of child molestation charges, but pursued this strategy to wrest control of his music catalogue from him. "They're after my Beatles' catalogue," he complained. "They just want my music ...I would never hurt a child, and they know that." I reassured him that I was convinced of his innocence. "I love you," he responded. I pretended not to hear him. So, he said it again. "I love you." I tried to change the subject by returning to my firm belief in his innocence. It didn't work. "I love you," he said for a third time. I finally acquiesced and said, "I love you too Michael," to which he immediately responded most sincerely, "I love you more."

Tormented by Tohme: Michael Jackson was none too pleased with Dr. Tohme Tohme, who is the former brother-in-law of Randy Phillips, CEO of AEG, the company that was sponsoring Michael's tours. In a telephone conversation with and recorded by confidante June Gatlin in September 2008 (apparently Michael wasn't aware he was being recorded - she said he knew), the King of Pop complained about tactics used by Tohme. Several times after having me on his show to talk about Michael's death Geraldo Rivera actually aired the conversation between Michael and Gatlin on August 31, 2009. (he then deleted everything regarding MJ from his site!)

bla-bla-bla - the Miss Cleo conversation

Many of Michael's fans are wondering why the other networks aren't highlighting the fact that Michael was not content-to understate it-with AEG representative Dr. Tohme Tohme. They're wondering why AEG didn't come out criticizing Dr. Conrad Murray, and why AEG allegedly took out drug overdose insurance on Michael.

Suspicious Sony & AEG Guilty?: The following are direct communications from well informed, well placed Michael Jackson fans: "I wanted to share with you some of the information about AEG that I have uncovered. According to their website, AEG Teleworks (an affiliate of AEG) handles production, post-production, off-site production, and telecast services for ABC, CBS, and NBC. This is probably the reason why when anyone states that they believe Michael was murdered or that AEG was conducting shady business, their assertions seem to fall on deaf ears. I have not seen any of the mainstream media outlets besides ABC promoting Barbara Walters' interview with LaToya that is scheduled to air tonight (although it has been known for weeks now that the interview was scheduled to air on September 11th). That's mighty strange considering that anyone who claims Michael was an addict or a 'tortured soul' or 'begged' for drugs gets unlimited airtime. I just wanted to share this information with you. If you are interested in any of the other information that I have uncovered, I would be happy to share that with you as well. Thank you so much for speaking up on Michael's behalf....Please let Michael's family know that they are not fighting this battle by themselves, and that the Body of Christ is covering them in prayer. God bless you!!"

Another informative fan wrote: "If you click on the link that I have posted at the bottom of this message, it will take you to the webpage for Bounce Event Marketing (another affiliate of AEG). One of their specialties is 'high-end music industry events,' and SONY is one of their many clients. So, even though Sony paid millions of dollars for Michael's rehearsal footage for the purposes of turning it into a movie, AEG will still be getting paid indirectly through Bounce Event Marketing. They have their hands in just about everything, don't they?"

Yet another fan reveals that Dr. Tohme is a close personal fried of Tom Barack, chairman of Colony Capital, the company that now owns Neverland; and that Frank Dileo, Michael's former manager, was on the board of Sony Records.

As stories develop rest assured that, God willing, these will be reflected in my column. Why am I doing it? Because of a legal and moral pact between Michael and me. Peace and blessings. Amen.

http://www.lasentinel.net/Michael-s-Mur ... stery.html (http://www.lasentinel.net/Michael-s-Murky-Murder-Mystery.html)

What he doesn't mention is MJ family inviting Kenny Ortega to direct Memorial and Funeral. Why would they do it if AEG and the whole TII arrangement was a prelude to killing Michael? Wouldn't they know by then?

Quote from: "imabeliever2"
Look at the agencies involved in this investigation:

The United States Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration; the California Department of Justice, Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement; the Houston Police Department and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.  

The California Department of Justice and The United States Department of Justice?????

Wow, I didn't pay attention to that! Can this be just formality?... and i wonder about those 'admirers in law enforcement agencies' MJ had  'spanning the globe'!

Sorry for a messed up post, my head is a mess too!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Oyan on December 18, 2009, 05:14:07 PM
This is all sounding much more horrifying than I care to accept.... :cry:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: the_gloved_one on December 18, 2009, 05:20:23 PM
Gosh this whole situation is a mess...so on the  day of Michael's "death" (according to Latoya) AEG brings back all the people tha Michael dismissed and fires all the staff from the beverley hill property and the 2nd home in Las Vegas? Why bring back peole that Michael wanted out of his life - did they have such little respect for Michael? Early on in the year Michael's handlers prevent his family from visiting him, could AEG been have been involved in this to? I have also just discovered that Dr Murray is no longer certified with the American board of medical specialists...this gets more shady by the hour!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 20, 2009, 03:24:24 PM
Quote
They're wondering why AEG didn't come out criticizing Dr. Conrad Murray, and why AEG allegedly took out drug overdose insurance on Michael.
Yes it's something to add to the "weird list" ... Maybe I'm a little too paranoiac but they may have known how Michael would "die" (really die or hoax his death)

God this Tohme Tohme is everywhere... According to the infos we have, he prevented Michael from seeing the ones he loved to control him and making him weaker... He was fired then suddenly reappeared and still speaks in Michael's name, AEG fired Michael's staff, Michael had been forced to do 50 concert instead of 10 ... I don't understand, wasn't Michael the BOSS ?! Why did he have to accept things he didn't want ?
Indeed, it's quite strange and raises more questions than answers.
There must be so many things we don't know ...  :?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 20, 2009, 08:30:16 PM
Murray's patients rate him on healthgrades.com (looks like our guy - see profile):

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_s ... nt-ratings (http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Conrad-Murray-MD-2E1459BD/patient-ratings)

I wonder if there's a way to see when these ratings were done... I was also interested to see his qualifications (awards and recognition) but you can only get it through a backgroung check:

http://www.healthgrades.com/consumer/in ... b_set=cart (http://www.healthgrades.com/consumer/index.cfm?fuseaction=mod&modtype=shop&modact=view_shop&action=additem&status=true&nocache=F487F82F-1403-7B2F-95D8DF7EC5D28DD9&tab_set=cart)

it's funny, if you choose to see the sample report it shows one on Dr. Bogus... that's what i always believed Murray to be!  :lol:

but i must admit he's got more real as time passed...
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 21, 2009, 06:00:32 PM
Thanks for the report......Yes, Tohme Tohme was in full control.
guys, this is getting stranger and stranger and its like one person links to the other.  

Guys ........ I don't know if it's just rumor, but it may be worth looking into. Please help!  I read that Martin Bashir's Brother was/is Tommy Mottola's Driver????
I have searched and searched and cannot find information on Martin Bashir's brother.   I will continue to research to see what I can find.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 21090.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/uri-geller-speaks-of-jackson-argument-1721090.html)
Uri Geller innocently introduced Michael Jackson to Martin Bashir.

Again, we see that even with the Bashir interview, Michael again trusted a referral from a friend, only to later regret it.

 I have a few more questions now.......Why did Uri Geller refer Bashir to Michael?  Did Geller have connections with Tommy Mottola or who?   In this situation, one thing leads to another and another.  There are so many connections, they're hard to keep track of :roll:  :roll:  :?:  :?:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: the_gloved_one on December 21, 2009, 06:11:53 PM
This whole thing is starting to sound like a plot against Michael. All the people who he may have pissed off, those who were jealous of his fame/fortune/success or those who just didn't like him or agree with his views/decisions. if in fact he was murdered and this isn't a hoax, then there must  be a hell of a lot of suspects.Is this all a case of pin the blame on the Doctor...?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 21, 2009, 07:25:55 PM
I honestly believe with everything within me that Michael is STILL ALIVE! and I will believe this until 100% proven wrong!  Looking at all the research that we've collected, nothing points to the fact that their evil plans of killing him were successful.  Obviously we see that MJ knew what was going on as well as their intentions.  I don't believe that he was a sitting duck waiting for them to destroy him.  Michael is too intelligent for that.

I believe that Dr. Murray was set up.  I believe that Michael planned this hoax for years to save his life, or its a possibility that he's under protective custody.  I think we should logically ask ourselves.......If it were me in Michael's situation knowing that someone was out to completely destroy me and I had Michael's money, what would I do????

Everything to save and protect my life!
Probably, run to the FBI with information to be in a witness protection program that would completely erase my current being or just simply fake my death!

I don't think Michael would just say. Ok, I know they're trying to kill me, so I'm just gonna sit here and wait for it to happen.  Right now we're just trying to investigate the fact that Michael Jackson didn't hire Conrad Murray and why.  Of course during this investigation, we're finding a lot more than expected.  

The Death Hoax seems to be the most logical, considering there are so many things that just don't make sense or appear fake (the body moving in the airplane, the 911 call etc).   :roll:  :?:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 22, 2009, 02:19:49 PM
Yes, I too, think that Michael was aware of the situation and is still alive... Otherwise I don't understand his family's behavior . If there was a murder, then some of his sibblings should have been ashamed of themselves, talking about their loss all smiling...
As for a come back, with this dangerous situation I don't know ... but that's another subject.
There are more and more stange things going on... All the people who attacked Michael and tried to ruin his life seem to be all related...it's crazy  :shock:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: the_gloved_one on December 22, 2009, 03:48:57 PM
Quote from: "O-drey-O"
There are more and more stange things going on... All the people who attacked Michael and tried to ruin his life seem to be all related...it's crazy  :shock:

Thats the scariest thing! its like they all got together and concocted some sort of plan to bring Michael down. I hope their plan failed and Michael got away safely.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 22, 2009, 07:01:59 PM
True, they were one way or another linked together to destroy him. Just in case you haven't seen it yet, another MJDH family member posted the website to MJ's FBI file under new topics.  Its interesting!  Well...should I come across anymore information, I will post it for sure and will look for any information from you guys as well.  

I still question the going ons in that house on June 25th, how did Michael manage to get away, how did he pull the Death Hoax Off and who helped him :?:  :?:   :?:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 25, 2009, 05:59:28 PM
Yep I've been wondering that since the beginning, but unfortunately I think that we will know it if Michael comes back...  :? All we can do from now is guessing... It must be powerful people, otherwise the hoax would be quickly discover but who exactly ...IDK
I have another question. Lately I read that Michael had to sell 25% of the Sony catalogue because of his debts, so he would still have the 25% left.And now it's up to Branca and Mc Clain, to decide if they would sell it to Sony or to let it to the children. Do you know if this is true and if there are any news about that? I didn't see anything...
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on December 25, 2009, 07:06:19 PM
Quote from: "O-drey-O"
I have another question. Lately I read that Michael had to sell 25% of the Sony catalogue because of his debts, so he would still have the 25% left.And now it's up to Branca and Mc Clain, to decide if they would sell it to Sony or to let it to the children. Do you know if this is true and if there are any news about that? I didn't see anything...

I've been wondering about that catalogue too, i really think it's significant. Just imagine, in 2005 it's been estimated to be worth $ 4-5 billion (well, i guess the whole thing, not just MJ's part). Anyway, i came across this article which exlains the current (well as of this summer) state of affairs pretty clearly and since it's been published in Forbes, i'd give it some credit:

Quote
Michael Jackson's Estate Sale
Zack O'Malley Greenburg, 06.26.09, 07:00 PM EDT
Jackson's debt may force a quick sale of his prized asset: rights to the Beatles catalog.

Michael Jackson died just before heading to the U.K., where a 50-concert schedule would have done much more than launch a musical comeback tour.

Proceeds from the concerts would have chipped away at nearly half a billion dollars in personal debt.

Creditors allowed Jackson to dig himself into such a hole because of the cash cow he put up as collateral: his 50% interest in a music publishing catalog that includes 250 Beatles songs and hundreds of thousands of other works.

Now, if those same creditors push the Jackson estate for quick payment, they could force a distressed sale of his interest in the catalog.

The King of Pop blew the profits from sales of 750 million records on extravagances ranging from $10,000-a-night hotel stays to the construction and upkeep of his $50 million Neverland Ranch.

But Jackson made one brilliant financial move--shelling out $47.5 million in 1985 to buy the publishing catalog. Ten years later, Sony ( SNE - news - people ) paid Jackson $90 million for half the rights, forming a joint venture called Sony/ATV. Today, it's worth far more.

"You're talking about the greatest catalog in existence," says Ryan Schinman, chief of Platinum Rye, the world's largest buyer of music and talent for corporations. "When you have that many No. 1 hits in a catalog, you almost can't put a price on it."

Schinman thinks the catalog is worth as much as $1.5 billion (like i said, in 2005 during court deposition it was estimated to be worth 4-5 bln), which would put Jackson's share at $750 million. Using a rough industry rule of thumb--that a catalog can throw off 5% to 7% of its value in cash each year--Jackson would have been earning some $80 million a year from his stake.

The real promise for getting out of debt, though, came from the scheduled concerts and the potential for an extended international tour. The London shows promised to net Jackson $50 million and a global tour could have earned him hundreds of millions of dollars more.

While the Jackson estate will own much of his own music, the big prize is still the Beatles catalog. Only an orderly sale will bring the maximum value.

"His creditors could say that, due to his passing, the owners of the estate have to make good on his debt in 60 days," says analyst Chris White of Wedbush Morgan. "Then you'd have to put this joint venture on the block, and that would be a distressed sale."

In other words, creditors could essentially foreclose on Jackson's stake in the Sony/ATV venture. Sony could try to block such a sale or buy Jackson's stake at a firesale price.

Representatives from Sony/ATV declined to comment.

A low price, while good for Sony, would diminish Jackson's estate. Given the state of both the economy and the music business, a quick sale of Jackson's catalog stake might not even erase his considerable debts.

"The music business is in the doldrums, to put it mildly," says Donald David, an estate lawyer who handled the postmortem finances of Tupac Shakur. "If somebody wanted to liquidate his interest, it's unclear whether it'd be enough to pay off the debt."

Add in competing interests from Jackson's family, creditors and even one-time friend Paul McCartney, and the situation could get complicated very quickly.

"They could get into a bit of a disagreement as to who has priority," says David. "That said, you can't leave an asset free of what it is securing. If McCartney wanted to claim back that catalog, he'd have to pay off the loans. He's got the money to do it, but I'm not sure he'd want to."

If an estate drama is on the horizon, Wall Street seems unfazed. Shares of Sony ended Friday's session down less than 1%.

"Sony is such a huge conglomerate," says White, "that their exposure to one entertainer--even one as big as Jackson, isn't going to move the needle in the short term."
http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/26/michae ... state.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-beatles-business-media-estate.html)

To sum it up (what's been stated in the article above), MJ used his half (or perhaps 1/2 of his share) of the Beatles' catalog as collateral for a loan and risked loosing it unless he paid the loan out. So the 02 concerts were scheduled to help him out. But the concerts famously flopped. So as this article was issued on June 26, further fate of the catalogue was very unclear. The chances were high that creditors would attempt to sell the catalogue to return their investments. And one could assume that Sony would try to outbid them and keep the 100% for themselves. BUT as we know, in the beginning of December seveal papers announced that all the debts were sorted by the estate. Which i presume could only mean that the share in catalogue can now safely return to the estate being released from collateral. While it dosn't look as beautiful as some other theories, this potentially COULD be the reason for a hoax, in which case i'm afraid MJ's not gonna come back, but his kids will be financially secure for the coming few centuries. And actually it looks like a win-win situation for everyone: MJ doesn't need to do the exhausting 50 concerts and a (God forbid) world tour, AEG haven't lost a dime, it's the opposite actually - they received some feasible profit as many fans didn't ask for refunds and also the movie had quite a successful run, the creditors got their money, and even Sony would benefit from the fact that the catalogue remains in MJ's hands instead of being split between several owners. To say more, it looks like Sony has established some sort of new partnership with MJ company and i'm sure we'll see some joint projects in future (be it new albums of unreleased songs, movies or else). Perhaps there was a peace treaty signed behind the curtains, well i'm just throwing it out... However IF the catalogue will be eventually sold to whatever third party (including Sony) this could give some food for bad thinking. So i was kinda glad to see that last sentence about Sony beeing big enough to get frustrated over a bunch of songs :)

Now there's been a lot of speculation about MJ financial straits before and after June 25 (http://michaeljacksonnotdead.wordpress. ... ficulties/ (http://michaeljacksonnotdead.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/was-michael-jackson-really-facing-financial-difficulties/)). Personally i never believed he was in debt... but what if he was. In 2001 he said: "The Beatles catalogue is not for sale, has not been for sale and will never be for sale." Yet he made it collateral which is risky. Either he had to be 100% sure to have the money to get it back and have extremely loyal accountants while the deal was pending, or there were indeed some troubles (but otherwise why would he get loans in the first place? :? ). You decide.
Perhaps someone of you can find different information on the subject, that would be interesting!

This thread seems to be the one for discussing issues concerning the estate and all the shady people around it, so i'll just post it here:

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=1734 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=1734)
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 27, 2009, 07:20:36 PM
tinker_bell, thanks! That was excellent investigative work!  I hadn't gotten the opportunity lately to do a more deeper investigation, but I will start tonight!  I will look  also, and try to find out more information on the connection between Martin Bashir and Sony/AEG any linked associations.  I've mentioned before, that I find it very strange that Michael's friend Chris Tucker has not commented or said anything regarding Michael's "Supposed Death"  They were pretty close and I saw from a photo that he too was at Al Malnik's birthday party with Michael.  Maybe he know's something and he's afraid to say anything.  Being able to connect all these people says this was a conspiracy without a doubt.   ;)
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: shannychell on December 28, 2009, 01:55:16 PM
Someone mentioned something about Chris Tucker that has been bugging me, it has been 6 months now and we have not really heard anything from Chris about MJ, they were extremely close friends and I am sure that if this is a hoax Chris would definitely be aware of it and maybe that is why there has been no comment from him on it.  What do you all think?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 28, 2009, 02:10:29 PM
Oh yes I remember ... concerning Al Manick and Chris Tucker, there is a member who wrote something about it on another site... I'm gonna try to find it
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 28, 2009, 05:07:13 PM
Thank, you guys!   I spent a few hours last night trying to find anykind of information on Chris Tucker and I found absolutely none.  IDK.....seeing that he and Michael were so close you would think that he would have been one of the first to interview.  Maybe he feels unsafe because he knows something that he's uncomfortable sharing with the public/press,  with the two of them being so close, I'm sure Michael shared with him his fears about his life and why.  But if Michael's family was able to give interview information or voice their opinion, I don't understand why can't he.   OR....... :idea: Maybe he knows all about the hoax and Michael's whereabouts! :?:  :?:  :?:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on December 29, 2009, 08:51:56 PM
I believe Chris Tucker is in the hoax... The thing is that he hasn't said anything about Michael. Not a word, nada. So it will be difficult to find something...  I didn't find the post I was referring to, i'll continue to look for it of course^^.

But there is something more about Al Manik.

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Malnik_Al_58621055.aspx?PersonID=58621055&lastName=Malnik&firstName=Al&id=58621055&searchSource=page&page=2

Embattled pop star Michael Jackson has added a new name to his long list of strange bedfellows: Miami Beach loan king Alvin Malnik, long said to be heir apparent to legendary mob finance wizard Meyer Lansky. Malnik Is a New York gangster/lawyer who moved to Florida.He is to control the Bahamas gambling and Caribbean drug running.
...
It is to Malnik, a multimillionaire whose suspected mob connections have been fodder for federal files since the 1960s, that Jackson is believed to have turned for help in erasing debt said to approach $200 million.
...
A lawyer, real estate developer and proprietor of the supertrendy Miami Beach hot spot The Forge, Malnik is also owner of Title Loans of America, a national chain that lends money legally at annual percentage rates reaching 264% - higher than most loansharks' vig.

He concedes he gave the pop star financial advice - as he has to members of the Saudi royal family - but has denied he lent Jackson considerable sums or put up the $3 million bail when the singer was charged last month with molesting a 12-year-old, cancer-ridden boy.
...
The relationship hit its showbiz zenith on May 17 this year, when Jackson - decked out in a vintage '70s glitter shirt and outsized Afro wig - was host of a 70th birthday disco party for Malnik at The Forge.
...
Malnik, who declined to be interviewed for this story, has long maintained he set eyes on the famous gangster only once - in a chance encounter in an elevator.

Ok now a little dates about Al Manik

Malnik first came to prominence in the early 1960s with the attempt to establish a gambling resort at Paradise Island in the Bahamas.He had already established himself in the banking and real estate businesses in Miami but soon become Lansky's public "front-man." The Paradise Island venture led to the establishment of Resorts International, the entertainment and gambling conglomerate which was the subject of intense law enforcement scrutiny for years as charges of control by Meyer Lansky surfaced (Mahan, 1980).

1962: Malnik was listed as a director of the Bank of World Commerce, a Bahamas-based institution that involved 'some of the nations' top gangsters,'

1963 The feds opened their first dossier on Malnik .It was two years after he graduated, first in his class, from Miami Law School.He had helped set up the Bank of World Commerce in Nassau, the Bahamas, an alleged loot laundry that investigators said involved "some of the nation's top gangsters."

1964: Acquitted on tax fraud charges, Malnik was heard discussing Lansky two years later on bugs placed by cops probing whether casino profits were invested overseas on the mobster's behalf.

But by then, Malnik - who purchased his first Rolls-Royce at age 29 - had long been a fixture in Miami's fast lane.

He made his first venture into showbiz, organizing a video jukebox company, Scopitone, that was touted as a music-industry revolution.

1966 : the U.S. attorney in New York secretly indicted Malnik on charges of using the mail to defraud Scopitone investors.In 1971, prosecutors quietly dropped the case.

1969 : after Malnik opened The Forge , it rose quickly to the top of Miami's night scene, attracting celebrities such as Frank Sinatra, Judy Garland, Richard Burton and even Richard Nixon, who came with his shady financier pal, Bebe Rebozo.

A Bahamian company named Appolonia Investment Limited allegedly paid over three million dollars to purchase property of Malnik in Nassau, and a ranch, owned by Malnik.

In the early 1970s, Malnik was also involved with Sam Cohen's sons in land deals in Florida and the Poconos.Their companies -- COMAL and "Cove Associates" -- dealt with Caesar's World and the Teamsters Pension Fund, both institutions which have attracted a substantial amount of law enforcement attention"


"Title Loans of America is owned by two trusts whose sole beneficiary is Alvin Malnik, a Miami lawyer whom the New Jersey Casino Control Commission found in 1980 and 1992 to be "a person of unsuitable character" to have any role in the industry. "

Odd... Michael may have owned money to this people... I 'll keep digging a little deeper...
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Truth_Freedom on December 30, 2009, 06:08:23 AM
Diana Ross, Chris Tucker nor Eddie Murphy have said anything. They are all silent.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on December 31, 2009, 10:37:07 PM
I believe Diana Ross and Eddie Murphy both commented on the supposed death.  However Chris Tucker has not and we can't seem to find where he is or what he's doing now. And yes, I really do believe that Chris Tucker is in on the hoax for sure, he's been acting too strange about this!  

O-Drey-O, that was interesting.......I'll see what else I can find as well.  One strange thing that I did find was a statement saying that Randy Jackson believe MJ's 2002 will was forged and not signed by him because he was in New York on the date it was signed.

http://blog.taragana.com/e/2009/10/22/randy-jackson-questions-mjs-will-46209/
Randy Jackson questioning MJ’s Will

Something else strange that I found while reading Randy's Jackson's statement.  Although Randy is saying that MJ couldn't have signed the 2002 Will because he was in New York on the day the Will was signed, the lawyer of the estate Howard Weitzman insists witnesses to the will were present when Michael had signed the will.  I looked up this attorney Howard Weitzman........I can't believe what I found on him!  

ANOTHER SUSPICIOUS PERSON AFFILIATED WITH MOB ACTIVITY.  And the amazing thing is that these are men in High Ranking Positions and they're all part of MJ's ESTATE, that they're refusing to let MJ's mother see :?:  :?:  :?:  

http://www.mikecann.net/2009/12/courtney-cobain-love-and-howard.html
Howard Weitzman and his entertainment business having been council for many well known clients. Weitzman seems to have had some real relationships with convicted organized crime folks or used their services in at least one of his cases, something which we will get into more with upcoming posts. He worked at MCA which has many reported incidents of being in league with the mafia.He's currently serving as the attorney for the trustees of the Michael Jackson estate.

Also, in this same article it was mentioned that Courtney Love Cobain has made statements that point to Howard Weitzman and others being behind the theft of her and Frances Bean Cobain's assets. Weitzman is listed in this civil case as the co-signer with Love setting up the Frances Cobain Irrevocable Trust. The case was recently dismissed at First Republic Bank's request. Love and Laird Norton Tyee Trust Company seem to have come to some sort of agreement

What is going on here??????  Everyone affliated with MJ seems to at one time if not currently connected to organized crime activity.   :?

It never fails.......with this situation, you start investigating on one thing and it leads to another :roll:

I can't wait to see what we stumble across next.  Question is, with so many people involved how do we get to the root of exactly which one/who was responsible for hiring Dr. Murray for Michael :?:  :?:  :?:
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: ILuvUMoreMJ on January 01, 2010, 03:09:27 AM
Nice summary tinker_bell. ;)

I seem to recall someone posting a video of Chris Tucker singing a tribute to MJ on stage...must have been on the old forum.

Edit: Here it is... http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-704- ... -You-video (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-704-Pop-Media-Examiner~y2009m11d3-Chris-Tucker-pays-tribute-to-friend-Michael-Jackson-sings-Rock-with-You-video)
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 03, 2010, 12:02:55 AM
I think that it's possible that Michael hired Dr Murray
Of course he wouldn't need him in London because if he hoaxed his death he knew he wouldn't go to London , so he wouldn't need one doctor licensed to practice in London.
If he knew about it then it's one more proof for the hoax : he hired a cardiologist !
It's possible MJ chose him because he knew he would be suspicious and the perfect suspect for the crime . He used him as a scapegoat .
The AEG could be either part of the hoax or either part of a conspiracy , that's right .
AEG fired Michael's staff because Michael asked them to(maybe)
Why not turn things around ?
It's possible all thoses scary things that you discover are all part of the hoax .
I believe that all of that served for the hoax , not for a conspiracy , if not then why hire Kenny and all his band at the funeral ?
What make look like a conspiracy can look like an hoax as well if you turn things around .
My theory only works if Michael was still in charge of everything of course.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on January 03, 2010, 02:43:51 PM
I really do not believe that MJ hired Dr. Murray.....this man might do time for MJ's "supposed" death.  I believe Murray was hired as a scapegoat, not knowing what was really going on!

I do not believe that MJ would hire someone and set them up to spend time in prison.  I believe this was strictly done by someone or some group that doesn't care about "setting" a person up and that person having to do time.  Michael believed that they were trying to kill him.  I do not think Michael would deliberately destroy someone else's life to save his.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 03, 2010, 07:08:48 PM
Quote
I really do not believe that MJ hired Dr. Murray.....this man might do time for MJ's "supposed" death. I believe Murray was hired as a scapegoat, not knowing what was really going on!

I do not believe that MJ would hire someone and set them up to spend time in prison. I believe this was strictly done by someone or some group that doesn't care about "setting" a person up and that person having to do time. Michael believed that they were trying to kill him. I do not think Michael would deliberately destroy someone else's life to save his.

Well sure it's seems cruel and out of character but it's could be possible.
We are wainting that he comes back but simple exemple :
 we don't think about the fans that killed themselves when they learned about "his death" it's  a "cruel" outcome too.
Theses people lost their lives.
Of course I'm not saying that he has done something like hiring someone to use as a scapegoat and send him to jail for nothing but that could be the case however.
The thing that discourage me most in all of this is thinking about the people that killed themselves , it's unrelated to the topic I'm sorry but their families if they see Mike come back , what would they do ?
More importantly , if he is indeed alive , how does he feel about this ?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on January 04, 2010, 11:03:02 AM
Yes, I have thought about that, which I learned recently, it is sad that 12 fans committed suicide because of their loss.  My heart goes out to their parents/loved ones.  I can't explain the reasoning behind what they did.  However me, myself.....I'm not gonna jump in front of a moving train because someone else did (even for MJ).....lol.  Although I love him as an entertainer/humanitarian, I also love my own life and refuse to let anyone or anything cheat me out of it.  

Obviously, this had nothing to do with MJ, but their own personal lives.  Michael isn't personally responsible for the actions of others nor can he be blamed for the actions of others.  Of, course I'm sure this is not what he wanted or expected.  When I first learned of Michael's "supposed" death, I was devastated too, but something inside of me wouldn't let go of the fact that he is still alive.  Yes, we love him dearly, but he's not God!  We have to be open minded with whichever way this turns out.  I think it's great that we have forums such as this to interact with other believers and not be looked at as retarded.  Either way this turns out (MJ Dead or Alive) our goal is to investigate the what's, how's and the why's. and as true fans, support his dreams and make them a reality.  Not throw away our lives because we're hurting, but fight for what he stood for.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 04, 2010, 02:34:20 PM
I don't think it's his fault either...I wouldn't throw my life away for anyone too. That's unreasonnable action to take , seriously.I wouldn't ever think that way . But maybe they had others reasons adding up.It's too much !
But these people's families are going to think it's his fault...If he comes back he is going to have it hard.
I hope that if he is alive and come back everything is going to be alright for him..
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on January 04, 2010, 03:05:02 PM
Grenat, I totally agree with you.....life is too precious to waste!   :D
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 04, 2010, 03:42:56 PM
Quote
Grenat, I totally agree with you.....life is too precious to waste!

Actually they should've used all this despair and anger to find a way to not repeat Michael's tragedie ,they should've not put their loved ones in suffering the lost of a loved one , because they were supposed to know how much it hurt
They should've fight , because they maybe won't have a second chance.
That's why I tell it's not Mike fault...But people when they suffer they need to blame someone at first because they can't handle it...
They have to find a culprit , they're probably already hating Mike now..but if he reappear before their very eyes and they understand their loved ones lives has gone to waste...Oh my..
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: O-drey-O on January 05, 2010, 02:24:49 AM
Yes, I'm afraid for Michael in a certain way if he comes back  :( . Because it's not his fault but the families may not think the same  :? .
I don't want to be disrespectful, please don't get me wrong, but is it really true that these fans killed themselves? Because I heard it once and then nothing... Sorry, I just wanna know...

And about Murray, I have one question.Well I don't know who hired him yet, there were definitely shady and powerful people around Michael.
Let's say Murray was hired by these bad people to be set up and let's say he didn't know anything about the murder plan or even the hoax. He was in Michael's house in order to treat him right? He would have actually given him meds, injected propofol... He wouldn't treat someone that doesn't exist  and Michael wouldn't let him touch him if he didn't need all of that... Murray has to be in the hoax ... no? What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 05, 2010, 07:01:23 AM
Quote
Yes, I'm afraid for Michael in a certain way if he comes back  . Because it's not his fault but the families may not think the same  .
I don't want to be disrespectful, please don't get me wrong, but is it really true that these fans killed themselves? Because I heard it once and then nothing... Sorry, I just wanna know...

And about Murray, I have one question.Well I don't know who hired him yet, there were definitely shady and powerful people around Michael.
Let's say Murray was hired by these bad people to be set up and let's say he didn't know anything about the murder plan or even the hoax. He was in Michael's house in order to treat him right? He would have actually given him meds, injected propofol... He wouldn't treat someone that doesn't exist and Michael wouldn't let him touch him if he didn't need all of that... Murray has to be in the hoax ... no? What do you guys think?

Well about the persons that killed themselves , I wondered the same things too..
We hear it just one time and after that they never mentionned it ever again
12 people is quite a lot...even so they pratically ignored it (the media)
I didn't even hear it on news , I saw it on a tabloid magazine..
Maybe we should research to verify if this statement was accurate

Dr Murray..We don't even know if he is real
He has to be real because he had a life before that,right ?
And about if he is in the hoax or not..well there is 4 solutions :
- Michael isn't dead , he disapeared on his way on the hospital,Murray doesn't know anything (but that doesn't seem likely that you could fake an heart attack right ?)
-Michael isn't dead and Murray has his part in the hoax
-Michael died of cardiac arrest after being injected propofol( or something else I dunno)and Dr Murray was like he himself said "  here at the wrong time"
-Michael is dead and Dr Murray was hired as the scapegoat , he isn't the one that injected the lethal dose but he is the one that has to bear all the blame = conspiracy
I really don't know...I really hope that's either the first or second theory , really

Edit : I searched about the 12 people and they are rumoured to have killed themselves . The thing is that there were a fanclub and the chairman of this fanclub think(after reading messages on the board I suppose) that 12 have killed themselves.The chairman doesn't even know if it's true ! I mean I can say that I'll kill myself here if I want , that doesn't mean I'll really die !It's easy to say anything on internet !
There are no proofs and no reliable sources that confirmed .
Check these pages if you want to know more
http://perezhilton.com/?p=58851 (http://perezhilton.com/?p=58851)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 620AAEMIxN (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090630222620AAEMIxN)
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 012AAdwwpH (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090630173012AAdwwpH)
Well I think nobody killed themselves after all , they just said it on the moment , because they were shocked but got a grip of themselves after .
I hope so
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on January 06, 2010, 01:08:16 PM
I question the number of fans that were supposedly have actually committed suicide.  I searched for the identity of these fans and only found one.  A Michael Jackson impersonator.  How real this report is??????   I have no idea! But I've listed the website for your view also.  Who knows......maybe it is a lie also!  

http://www.umcssa.net/tag/pavel-talalayev (http://www.umcssa.net/tag/pavel-talalayev)
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on January 07, 2010, 08:23:17 PM
Quote from: "imabeliever2"
I looked up this attorney Howard Weitzman........I can't believe what I found on him!  

ANOTHER SUSPICIOUS PERSON AFFILIATED WITH MOB ACTIVITY.  And the amazing thing is that these are men in High Ranking Positions and they're all part of MJ's ESTATE, that they're refusing to let MJ's mother see :?:  :?:  :?:  

http://www.mikecann.net/2009/12/courtney-cobain-love-and-howard.html
Howard Weitzman and his entertainment business having been council for many well known clients. Weitzman seems to have had some real relationships with convicted organized crime folks or used their services in at least one of his cases, something which we will get into more with upcoming posts. He worked at MCA which has many reported incidents of being in league with the mafia.He's currently serving as the attorney for the trustees of the Michael Jackson estate.

A little more on Howard Weitzman, concerning the financial settlement with Chandlers in 1993:

Quote
lso, I suspect the people giving him this bad advice were probably working for his enemies within the recording industry. Michael’s first lawyer was Bertram Fields who worked with an aggressive private investigator, Anthony Pellicano. From what I’ve read, these two men encouraged Michael to go to trial because they didn’t believe Dr. Chandler had a case of merit. In fact, Fields filed extortion charges against Dr. Chandler and his lawyer, Barry Rothman. According to Ms. Hughes, Chandler and Rothman took the charges very seriously because they both hired defense attorneys. Unfortunately, Mr. Fields specialized in entertainment law, http://but brought in Howard Weitzman as the criminal case began to heat up. This turned out to be a big mistake because Weitzman apparently pressured Michael to settle and drop the extortion charges against Chandler and Rothman. This suggests Weitzman was working for Michael’s enemies, perhaps Joe Isgro himself, or Tommy Mottola, or both.
from http://www.jfkmontreal.com/Michael_Jack ... reamer.htm (http://www.jfkmontreal.com/Michael_Jackson/mj_dreamer.htm) (this article was posted on another thread, quite interesting, but should be taken with a grain of sault IMO)

So this man, who apparently gave MJ the worst legal advise possible back in 1993 is now an attorney for the Estate executors. Who hired him? Michael or Branca/McClain? I suggest the second.

Then we have John Branca, who was asked back a month prior to MJ's death after he resigned in 2006 (for breaching the representation ethics - working for MJ AND Sony/Mottola). We only know about MJ asking him back from DiLeo's words. However, conveniently, MJ didn't amend his will after 2006, leaving Branca as his posthumous manager.

I really couldn't find much on John McClain except him being MJ's childhood friend and a renowned music executor: http://news.lalate.com/2009/07/01/john- ... nterscope/ (http://news.lalate.com/2009/07/01/john-mcclain-interscope/) (i found some comments to this article interesting, but of course, hard to prove)

Now this is a little off topic, but i find it very curious how some of the "messengers" in Internet refered to MJ's shady entourage:

*Michael...L.O.V.E.* from LKL blog, December 23rd, 2009 7:27 pm ET
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You people are idiots. If you cannot clearly see that I am alive, you are just plain stupid idiots. How much more outrageous and unbelievable could the story get every day. I am absolutely embarrassed that so many of my fans are such idiots!
Have a Merry Christmas while you figure out if it was Tohme, Sony, Anschultz, Dileo, Colony Capital, etc. IT WAS NONE OF THEM! I am alive!

Now there's the new oracle from the Italian forum, who said:

Sent: 01/02/2010, 11:26 p.m, user blackorwhite
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- Thome Thome works for Michael. Don’t believe what they write about him. Actually, all the trustworthy people were re-hired by Michael when he decided to go back on stage. Thanks to him Neverland has not been sold.

Wouldn't it be smart move to talk with hoax-beleivers in their language, while trying to slowly divert them from the ugly truth? Just a thought.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on January 07, 2010, 11:34:50 PM
Thanks tinker_bell, those were interesting findings and articles.  I will also, do more research on John Branco and John McClain to see what I can come up with as well.  I've been following the thread here regarding BOW from the Italian Hoax Site as well. A lot she says makes sense and I've asked our connection here questions as well, but I haven't read enought to 100% make up my mind.  I sure hope it is real though as I'm getting a little tired and frustrated with all the different imposters turning out to be exactly that!  

Remember earlier in this thread, I mentioned three possibilities for the hoax......either he's really gone, he's in a witness protection program or had to leave due to life threatening reasons.  So to me some things make sense and she gives direct answers.  Whether she's real or not.....only time will tell for sure.  

As far as the Michael L.O.V.E. on LKL.   I know for a fact that isn't Michael Jackson speaking. I don't know much about him there, only through heresay, but when he said that, he blew his cover right then and there!

There is absolutely no way on God's Green Earth Michael would ever talk about or to his fans like that!  He always had the utmost respect for us.  And the words are not words that MJ would use.  But see what I mean......people usually blow their own phony cover just like BOW will if she's phony.  Thats why I say.......Time Will Tell for sure!
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 08, 2010, 08:14:22 PM
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I question the number of fans that were supposedly have actually committed suicide. I searched for the identity of these fans and only found one. A Michael Jackson impersonator. How real this report is?????? I have no idea! But I've listed the website for your view also. Who knows......maybe it is a lie also

There is one and only one that confirmed and he is not dead ?
But poor guy , it say that he is a fan for 20 years and he even undergone surgery to look like him . It must have been hard on him
Thankfully he was saved in time !
Of course...I mean it's easy like I said to tell anyone on internet you're going to kill yourself , but it doesn't mean you really do it .
I think that after all nobody died..I hope so
So the issue with the loss of the fans seems to be cleared
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: tinker_bell on January 08, 2010, 08:40:36 PM
I also find it weird that none of the 'suicide' stories was properly addressed by the media, but the sad truth is it could happen even without being in the news. However, those could just be the cases of 'Munchausen-by-proxy' syndrome cases (http://hubpages.com/hub/Munchausen_by_Internet (http://hubpages.com/hub/Munchausen_by_Internet)). If it did happen, it's tragic and obviously had to do with phsychological condition of these people rather than with MJ whatsoever. I do believe though he felt responsibile for those who loved him (remember: "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed"? =), therefore i never thought the hoax (if there's indeed one) was for fun, it must be for very serious reasons.
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: Grenat on January 09, 2010, 01:41:00 AM
Quote
I also find it weird that none of the 'suicide' stories was properly addressed by the media, but the sad truth is it could happen even without being in the news. However, those could just be the cases of 'Munchausen-by-proxy' syndrome cases (http://hubpages.com/hub/Munchausen_by_Internet (http://hubpages.com/hub/Munchausen_by_Internet)). If it did happen, it's tragic and obviously had to do with phsychological condition of these people rather than with MJ whatsoever. I do believe though he felt responsibile for those who loved him (remember: "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed"? =), therefore i never thought the hoax (if there's indeed one) was for fun, it must be for very serious reasons.

In fact it was adressed, one french tabloid reported it in a special numero on Michael's death , but it sais that it was "rumoured" so it  wasn't verified .
I've read what you've posted on Munchausen syndrome and I think it must be it
In that period of shock , everyone was panicking , and some surely altough grieving wanted the attention from their fellow friends (surely they weren't understood by their families , who tought the reaction was exagerated or something like that)so out of shock they said they would want to die , but killing himself isn't something as easy as writing it on a fan-club forum.
And if some of them really did kill themselves,it must be because they already had psychological problems , you cannot let go of your live because your idol has just died..It's really sad and for a moment I was in shock too , and I tought about it a long time , but never the only slight idea of dying has come to me
Not even one time , it's stupid. It wouldn't solve anything
If someone really did die it's not Michael's fault and that person would've done it sooner or later anyways.
We fans and any normal people would know that it's not Michael's fault
But come on, if one of them really died, his family would want to blame someone
and that only person can only be Michael,that's a natural reaction to blame someone for your sadness.
It's what make me really upset for now..
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: karmaknowstruth on January 09, 2010, 03:11:57 AM
Excellent record keeping imabeliever2 !!!

And o-drey-o , I was just about to address your question:

But i still have a question ... Did Murray actually treat Michael? If Michael knew about it, he wouldn't have let him treat him right? That's what makes me thinking that Murray would be actually in the hoax, because if he didn't know about it, he was supposed to treat a patient and would have really injected propofol to him.If he was on the hoax then he wouldn't have done anything on Michael, the only thing he had to do was pretending to be Michael personal doctor. ( o-drey-o wrote)

First it IS important to record and log all clues and their sources. The "sources" need to be determined if reliable or not. Just like the boy crying wolf... if a source shows contradiction more than twice I would not even consider their information at all. In some ways I wonder if the unreliable sources are just trying to throw us off balance making mud.  It does seem that there are a set of characters involved that played a role then were "fired" and were interviewed either on video or quoted in a news article to reveal their part in the event.  

>>Remember the Chef said Dr M brought O2 tanks down the stairs each morning, but not that morning.  Hummm, that's alot of O2 being used and for what?  No one has actually said MJ needed oxygen on a regular basis.  Who hired her?  I recall she had not been with Michael very long.

>>Yes, you figured out that No real concerts were to be done in London.  Many questioned why build elaborate sets at the Staples Center just for practice. (if I'm remembering that right) That fits in with the TII movie and all the slip ups connected with that

>>Wasn't there some slip ups about rehearsal times that made us question did he die on the 24th and the 25th ?

>>Keep in mind our good friend Kenny Ortega the director.  He's been extremely smiley thru all this. Bet he could write a good death hoax script if he were asked to.  Hummm, would look good in his portfolio too.

>>Doc M may have been the patsy, perfect choice to take the rap in a murder or a hoax exercise.  They fired the staff day before or 30 minutes after.  BUT, what to do with the Doctor?  He can't stick around to get caught up in a bunch of lies if the authorities happen to show up.  Just tell him to run like hell, ditch your car, jump fences... just get outta there and chill.  We'll wait to see how Act 1 goes down and we'll tell ya what to do next.  

>>Or what about the cell calls doc made when he supposedly was doing CPR.  They may NOT have told him the plan until a couple hours before hand. He needed coaching, had to set up the bedroom stage props, he got the order of things mixed up, Michael hid in the closet while doc & bodyguard arranged the Fake michael body on the floor. How much time passed between the report of when MJ stopped breathing and the 911 call?  A lot of time doing what ?? Maybe he flubbed in telling the correct time he found MJ because he is very bad at math too.

There is some much jumbled up information and are so many different scenarios for a murder or hoax and the Doctor would be the main character most wanted immediately.
In my mind murder or hoax, the dude had to run.

I still am believing in a HOAX -- I have a new angle I'll post when I'm not so tired and I gather my evidence to present.

xoxoxo
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: karmaknowstruth on January 09, 2010, 03:19:23 AM
I'm so sorry to have left this out of my previous post.  I looked and looked to find the you tube link of a video where they wrote a nurse was asked by Jermaine where to go to find michael and just then a fire alarm went off at the hospital causing a short term evacuation when at the same time a helicopter landed on the roof.  Maybe you've see that hoax video.
  I don't know how reliable the person or their sources were.
I'll hunt again for it after I get some sleep.

xoxoxo
Title: Re: Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: whisper on January 09, 2010, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: "tinker_bell"
@ O-drey-O:

Strange to say the least! I get a clear feeling that everybody's doing the wrong parts in this story, just look at it:

- Colony Capital arranging the concert deal (instead of MJ manager at the time)
- Fans informing Joe Jackson and Frank Dileo of Michael's being rushed to the hospital (who are those FANS???)
- AEG firing MJ staff (again instead of estate administrators or family)
- Jermaine announcing MJ's death (instead of medical chief officer or whatever person in charge)
- TMZ providing all the major 'hot' news starting from MJ death to investigation (instead of more or less reliable sources like CNN, AP or else)

and finally people in Internet doing the investigation instead of police and press!



yes your right ! and thats the most Specious thing about the whole death of mj !! that everything seems more like acting than real !!that everything spells HOAX !
Title: Re: UPDATE...Report (Michael Jackson Didn't Hire Conrad Murray)
Post by: imabeliever2 on January 23, 2010, 12:55:45 AM
More Research on the Topic:  (What AEG and Sony would gain by hiring Murray)

All have history of mafia ties

Tommy Mottola ...........Still affiliated with Sony through his own Record Co.
Tohme Tohme.............Michael's Manager...............Claims to have been rehired by MJ
Howard Weitzman........Attorney for MJ's Estate
John Branca............... Rep for MJ's Estate.............Claims to have been rehired by MJ
John McClain.............. Rep for MJ's Estate
Al Malnick.................. Friend of Tommy Mottola
Randy Phillips............. Related by marriage and very close to Tohme Tohme

AEG
http://unitednationz.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/michael-jackson-conspiracy-explained-dr-murrays-assistants-unknowingly-assist-in-his-pending-arrest/
AEG is Paying for Conrad Murray's Defense Team!

SONY/Tommy Mottola
After Sony
Tommy Mottola was the head of Sony Music Entertainment until January 2003. Since leaving his post as chief of Sony Music, Mottola has been building a new entertainment company, complete with recorded music, television production, theater, and fashion, alongside a branding and management company launching and re-launching the various careers of such artists as Usher whose “Confessions” release has sold over 20 million copies to date worldwide[5], Grammy winner and Latin pop star Marc Anthony, and teen sensation Lindsay Lohan.[6] Later singings included Cassie Ventura in 2006 and Mika, who in 2007 had a #1 single in the UK.
A collaboration with former Miramax chief Harvey Weinstein has them teamed on two current projects for live theater, namely producers of Pink Floyd's The Wall. Mottola's TV production arm is currently producing and developing many shows for cable and network television.
Mottola bought out the rights to Casablanca Records (a then-diminished imprint of Polygram), and resurrected it, signing actress Lindsay Lohan, and singer Mika.

Tommy Mottola - plans to make profit from MJ
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1615178/20090702/jackson_michael.jhtmlFormer Sony Music CEO Tommy Mottola — with whom Jackson famously feuded — told The Associated Press that the singer's unreleased material ranges from unused tracks recorded during studio sessions for some of Jackson's most beloved albums to the songs he recently recorded with Akon and Will.I.Am that were slated for a long-in-the-works comeback album.

"There are dozens and dozens of songs that did not end up on his albums," said Mottola, who ran Jackson's musical distributor, Sony Music, from 1998-2003. "People will be hearing a lot of that unreleased material for the first time ever. There's just some genius and brilliance in there."
Mottola predicted that the releases could trickle out for years to come and eclipse the mountain of repackaged releases that have come out since the death of another musical icon, Elvis.
Since Jackson's death last Thursday, there have been numerous reports that he left behind more than 100 tracks, and the public thirst for his music has already resulted in a stampede to stores and the downloading of 2.3 million tracks in the U.S.
Despite being labeled a "racist" by Jackson in 2002 in a very public spat, Mottola told the AP that he considers himself the "shepherd and gatekeeper" of Jackson's catalog, claiming to be more familiar with what the pop icon left behind than anyone. He said that for every album Jackson made, including such classics as his solo breakthrough, 1979's Off the Wall and 1982's landmark Thriller, the singer recorded several tracks that didn't make it onto the albums, as is common with most artists.
It's unknown who owns the rights to the unreleased recordings, and an unnamed label source told the AP that no new projects or compilations are in the works yet. A spokesperson for Sony could not be reached at press time to comment for this story.
It's also unclear if Jackson's will made provisions for the release of his music, though entertainment lawyer Steve Gordon, who worked at Sony in the 1990s, told the AP that Jackson owned some of his master recordings and others were owned in partnership with Sony. Sony retains exclusive distribution rights for anything Jackson produced while under contract to the company.
AEG Live, the company that was promoting Jackson's 50-date "This Is It" concert series at the O2 Arena in London, reportedly has more than 100 hours of footage of Jackson performance that could be used to create the singer's first-ever live album release. A spokesperson for AEG has not returned requests for comments on what the company plans to do with that footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a2aFIl0 ... -main-area (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a2aFIl0Kyw#watch-main-area)
[youtube:2z2b0pel]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a2aFIl0Kyw#watch-main-area[/youtube:2z2b0pel]

http://www.stockbloghub.com/2009/08/28/aeg-aegon-sony-life-insurance-gets-license/13808
(AEG) AEGON-Sony Life Insurance Gets License
Sony Life Insurance Co. and major Dutch insurer AEGON Group (AEG) stated their joint venture in Japan has got a life insurance business license from the Financial Services Agency (FSA). The collaboration will start business operations in December.
The new company will be known as AEGON Sony Life Insurance Co. (ASLIC) with equal equity ownership of Sony Life and AEGON. ASLIC will sell variable annuity insurance products.
The intention to establish the life insurance company was announced on Jan 25, 2007. The joint venture had originally planned to begin sales in 2008. But the global financial crisis prompted the FSA to adopt tougher regulations, forcing the venture to postpone its business operations
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