Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => Michael's Life & Clues He Left Us => Michael's features, habits & disguises => Topic started by: AirSlide on October 25, 2010, 03:52:37 PM
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The story about him sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber..
The story about him trying to buy the bones of the Elephant Man..
Were these rumors started by Michael himself?
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According to MJ's former publicist, Michael Levine, yes, they started those rumours, with Michael's approval. But I believe only the 2 stories you mentioned.
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According to one author, he started the real Billie Jean saga. In my opinion, that was brilliant and it worked like a charm.
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I know it's common among stars to create stories about themselves so they can appear in the media as often as possible; stories which make them more interesting to the everyday people.
I'm almost sure Michael created some rumours about himself too...unfortunately. If he really did, then (even though it was a common thing to do for people like him) probably it was partly his mistake that later he had to suffer by the uncountable rumours the media found out... It's very sad - this entertainment business has many disadvantages.
I feel sorry for Michael for what he had to suffer because of the media, but at the same time I find it a bad decision to create rumours (if he really did) to be more successful.
Lying hardly ever brings positive outcomes...
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He probably did not think before he started these rumours, that in the long run things can get out of hand. He probably found it funny, than everyone (media) thought he was a freak. Once he tried to say it was not true nobody believed him and the media made a mountain out of a moe hill. If you noticed that's when everything started going down hill for him. I think Michael did not need any promoting, he did not need to start these rumours he was already the king of pop and nothing would have changed that. He is the best... Love and blessings.
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He probably did not think before he started these rumours, that in the long run things can get out of hand. He probably found it funny, than everyone (media) thought he was a freak. Once he tried to say it was not true nobody believed him and the media made a mountain out of a moe hill. If you noticed that's when everything started going down hill for him. I think Michael did not need any promoting, he did not need to start these rumours he was already the king of pop and nothing would have changed that. He is the best... Love and blessings.
He was too young then I think (even though he was in the business since ever) and probably just followed what others did and what his manager told him... Everyone makes mistakes...
And yes, he would have been just as a great star without those rumours - if not greater (without haters).
"The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold." ~Aristotle
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Who cares, however the media and other people took it to the extreme with their other rumors and lies that was very, very hurtful and disrespectful.
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Who cares
I do...Otherwise I would not have asked...I find it to be interesting
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LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media and I had heard before that it was him who started those rumors - to create a mystery. I also remember reading that when he was giving the tabloids the oxygen chamber and elephant man stories that he wanted them to pepper in the word "bizarre".
Perhaps it backfired on him but it kept people wondering which is what his goal was, I think.
And speaking of starting rumors, who do you think started the rumor back in Dec '08/Jan '09 that MJ "would be dead in 6 months"? ;)
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LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media and I had heard before that it was him who started those rumors - to create a mystery. I also remember reading that when he was giving the tabloids the oxygen chamber and elephant man stories that he wanted them to pepper in the word "bizarre".
Perhaps it backfired on him but it kept people wondering which is what his goal was, I think.
And speaking of starting rumors, who do you think started the rumor back in Dec '08/Jan '09 that MJ "would be dead in 6 months"? ;)
Possibly.
By the way I agree with whoever said it that starting them himself wasn't a good idea.. He was "mysterious" enough back then, anyway..
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LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media and I had heard before that it was him who started those rumors - to create a mystery. I also remember reading that when he was giving the tabloids the oxygen chamber and elephant man stories that he wanted them to pepper in the word "bizarre".
Perhaps it backfired on him but it kept people wondering which is what his goal was, I think.
And speaking of starting rumors, who do you think started the rumor back in Dec '08/Jan '09 that MJ "would be dead in 6 months"? ;)
Lies usually backfires, that's why I worry so much what will happen when Michael comes back.
Of course, now, as so many people are involved in this hoax, I'm sure it's very well planned, and the goal is something which is acceptable by everyone involved. Acceptable enough that they even lie for it.
But I still have a bad feeling about this whole thing... Mainly because I don't think or feel that they started it because Michael's life was threatened. That would be the only acceptable reason for this hoax for me...
And this is what I'm afraid will happen (just as it happened after the oxygen chamber story with other things Michael said and were really true):
Liars when they speak the truth are not believed.
Aristotle
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LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media and I had heard before that it was him who started those rumors - to create a mystery. I also remember reading that when he was giving the tabloids the oxygen chamber and elephant man stories that he wanted them to pepper in the word "bizarre".
Perhaps it backfired on him but it kept people wondering which is what his goal was, I think.
And speaking of starting rumors, who do you think started the rumor back in Dec '08/Jan '09 that MJ "would be dead in 6 months"? ;)
Lies usually backfires, that's why I worry so much what will happen when Michael comes back.
Of course, now, as so many people are involved in this hoax, I'm sure it's very well planned, and the goal is something which is acceptable by everyone involved. Acceptable enough that they even lie for it.
But I still have a bad feeling about this whole thing... Mainly because I don't think or feel that they started it because Michael's life was threatened. That would be the only acceptable reason for this hoax for me...
And this is what I'm afraid will happen (just as it happened after the oxygen chamber story with other things Michael said and were really true):
Liars when they speak the truth are not believed.
Aristotle
I think that when/if Michael BAMs, he will definitely have some explaining to do and I'm sure that his explanation will be quite profound and many people will accept it whatever it is. Many won't, but Michael knows this. I don't think Michael is a bad person for lying - he has his reasons and only he knows for sure what those reasons are. And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. He is very brave for taking all the risks involved with faking his death.
I think that we are an integral part of the hoax, he needs the believers to figure out the clues he left for us, to help spread awareness of the evils going on in the world and to vindicate him for all the lies that were said about him. When he BAMs, he will need us there to say I told you so to all those who just accepted that he "died" and refused to see all the evidence and clues that were left to those willing to look beyond mainstream media reporting.
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I also remember hearing a long time ago that the Elephant Man/hyperbaric chamber rumours were leaked by MJ's camp as he wanted to create an auro of mystery and fascination around himself, the reasons I read at the time were his fascination with PT Barnum and Howard Hughes, people who are even today still remembered for their eccentricities and oddness. I do also remember reading that as soon as Michael made himself less accessible to the press and wouldn't play to their tune as it were, they turned on him and decided there were enough wild rumours circulating that they could print whatever they liked and people would likely believe it. Maybe they discovered he himself had started those two rumours himself and they didn't like being used for his benefit so they decided to teach him a lesson. By anyone's standards, they went WAY too far and that's putting it mildly.
He was crucified by the media and even when he tried to set things straight via TV interviews they were edited to show him in a bad light. Watching the Bashir "documentary" is hard because you can feel his pain so many times but he's still being hounded by questions he doesn't want to answer and that frankly are none of anyone's business. If someone wants to change their appearance by plastic surgery then that's their choice, millions of other people do it and they aren't hounded over it. Look at Priscilla Presley for heaven's sake, she looks like a mannequin. When she was on Oprah with LMP I didn't hear Oprah asking her why she felt the need to do that to herself. Because it's private and personal.
With Michael though the press decided at some point that he was fair game and not entitled to a private life. True, no other artist had experienced the phenomenal success he had achieved so it was uncharted territory but I think because he had been famous since he was little there was a sense that the world "owned" him, and the press probably felt that he owed them for all the coverage. If the world would just wake up to the sensationalist tabloid media (and there are people in the showbiz heirachy in the USA who have been decrying it for years, like The Simpsons writers, producers and creators), then Michael would get the apology he has so deserved for so many years from the media because the PEOPLE would demand it.
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"Artists use lies to tell the truth" - V for Vendetta
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I think in the end we can only speculate, because we never know who is honest with us and who isn't. Dieter Wiesner, for example, stated that Michael's people put those stories out without his approval.
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I think that when/if Michael BAMs, he will definitely have some explaining to do and I'm sure that his explanation will be quite profound and many people will accept it whatever it is. Many won't, but Michael knows this. I don't think Michael is a bad person for lying - he has his reasons and only he knows for sure what those reasons are. And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. He is very brave for taking all the risks involved with faking his death.
I think that we are an integral part of the hoax, he needs the believers to figure out the clues he left for us, to help spread awareness of the evils going on in the world and to vindicate him for all the lies that were said about him. When he BAMs, he will need us there to say I told you so to all those who just accepted that he "died" and refused to see all the evidence and clues that were left to those willing to look beyond mainstream media reporting.
This is the positive way of thinking about the outcomes - and I hope you are right and everything will be allright.
But I can't help being worried.
"And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. "
If his life was in danger then he didn't have a choice, but otherwise, IMO, he did have.
About vindication: His name is getting clearer and clearer during this hoax, and I'm very happy about it, BUT I'm afraid it can STAY that way only if he doesn't come back.
Imagine the shock of people if Michael comes back and they realize they were lied to. I don't think most of them will think "this was the right way to clear your name Michael".
Mainly because - like I said - even for me the only acceptable reason would be that his life was in danger. I don't think it's right to lie this big for other reasons. Okay, maybe if he could help the world with this hoax A LOT, then it probably will end good, and most people (me included, of course) will celebrate him. But I think those who really cause this world the biggest problems, are too big fish for Michael and what he can reach with this hoax. But -of course - I don't know what's really going on in the background.
Anyway, I will always love him and wish him the best - I'm just worried.
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I think that when/if Michael BAMs, he will definitely have some explaining to do and I'm sure that his explanation will be quite profound and many people will accept it whatever it is. Many won't, but Michael knows this. I don't think Michael is a bad person for lying - he has his reasons and only he knows for sure what those reasons are. And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. He is very brave for taking all the risks involved with faking his death.
I think that we are an integral part of the hoax, he needs the believers to figure out the clues he left for us, to help spread awareness of the evils going on in the world and to vindicate him for all the lies that were said about him. When he BAMs, he will need us there to say I told you so to all those who just accepted that he "died" and refused to see all the evidence and clues that were left to those willing to look beyond mainstream media reporting.
This is the positive way of thinking about the outcomes - and I hope you are right and everything will be allright.
But I can't help being worried.
"And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. "
If his life was in danger then he didn't have a choice, but otherwise, IMO, he did have.
About vindication: His name is getting clearer and clearer during this hoax, and I'm very happy about it, BUT I'm afraid it can STAY that way only if he doesn't come back.
Imagine the shock of people if Michael comes back and they realize they were lied to. I don't think most of them will think "this was the right way to clear your name Michael".
Mainly because - like I said - even for me the only acceptable reason would be that his life was in danger. I don't think it's right to lie this big for other reasons. Okay, maybe if he could help the world with this hoax A LOT, then it probably will end good, and most people (me included, of course) will celebrate him. But I think those who really cause this world the biggest problems, are too big fish for Michael and what he can reach with this hoax. But -of course - I don't know what's really going on in the background.
Anyway, I will always love him and wish him the best - I'm just worried.
I must admit that I am worried too. :| We gotta keep the faith!
:)
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I think in the end we can only speculate, because we never know who is honest with us and who isn't. Dieter Wiesner, for example, stated that Michael's people put those stories out without his approval.
Then Michael could have made a statement right away about it, I guess.
Of course, probably many people still would have believed those rumours anyway, as many people LIKE these stories. And THIS IS the problem. People buy those magazines because they like reading gossips.
People have always liked to hear and to talk about gossips, we don't have to go too far to see it... And this cannot be changed I'm afraid. And until there will be people like these, there will be tabloids and hurtful stories about celebrities...
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"Artists use lies to tell the truth" - V for Vendetta
How? Sounds strange... And not too good either... (I didn't see the movie).
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"Artists use lies to tell the truth" - V for Vendetta
How? Sounds strange... And not too good either... (I didn't see the movie).
The movie is awesome. And the complete quote is "Artists use lies to tell the truth, politicians use lies to cover up the truth".
It's pretty simple. Artists uses lies (works of art especially like a FICTION novel or a film, fiction meaning it didn't actually happen) to tell the truth (the moral of the piece of art, or what message the art is trying to convey).
In other words, Michael is an artist and he is using a lie (this death hoax) to expose the truth about what is really going on in the world.
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I must admit that I am worried too. :| We gotta keep the faith!
:)
Yes, we've got to. I just hate that I don't know what's going on and have no idea whether I could help somehow, and how.
Just mentioning: clues are not enough for me, who knows who created them. And we can misunderstand them also. I like clear speeches before I react to something someone said.
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"Artists use lies to tell the truth" - V for Vendetta
How? Sounds strange... And not too good either... (I didn't see the movie).
The movie is awesome. And the complete quote is "Artists use lies to tell the truth, politicians use lies to cover up the truth".
It's pretty simple. Artists uses lies (works of art especially like a FICTION novel or a film, fiction meaning it didn't actually happen) to tell the truth (the moral of the piece of art, or what message the art is trying to convey).
In other words, Michael is an artist and he is using a lie (this death hoax) to expose the truth about what is really going on in the world.
Hmm. I wish he made only a film instead of this hoax... He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.) But thanks for the answer!
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First of all I want to say that we all make mistakes and the proverb says something like the one who has never lied or sinned throws the first stone at me (or something like that)...
I think that all the "Stars" lie to make their names appear where they need them to appear...that being said the way Michael has been treated by the corrupted media who did not deserve more than Michael playing with them, has absolutely nothing to see with these supposed rumors he would have created. But I think it's clear, sorry I just have to say it because I don't understand this topic.
The hoax has very important issues to introduce to the world, it's not just to clear his name that Michael has done that. So people will certainly not focus on all these old rumors or on the fact that Michael "lied" to them (it's not the case they have been fooled by the media by blindly believing everything they told them despite the obvious oddities), they will just understand that THEIR lives are in danger IMO.
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"Artists use lies to tell the truth" - V for Vendetta
How? Sounds strange... And not too good either... (I didn't see the movie).
The movie is awesome. And the complete quote is "Artists use lies to tell the truth, politicians use lies to cover up the truth".
It's pretty simple. Artists uses lies (works of art especially like a FICTION novel or a film, fiction meaning it didn't actually happen) to tell the truth (the moral of the piece of art, or what message the art is trying to convey).
In other words, Michael is an artist and he is using a lie (this death hoax) to expose the truth about what is really going on in the world.
Hmm. I wish he made only a film instead of this hoax... But thanks for the answer!
No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
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First of all I want to say that we all make mistakes and the proverb says something like the one who has never lied or sinned throws the first stone at me (or something like that)...
I think that all the "Stars" lie to make their names appear where they need them to appear...that being said the way Michael has been treated by the corrupted media who did not deserve more than Michael playing with them, has absolutely nothing to see with these supposed rumors he would have created. But I think it's clear, sorry I just have to say it because I don't understand this topic.
The hoax has very important issues to introduce to the world, it's not just to clear his name that Michael has done that. So people will certainly not focus on all these old rumors or on the fact that Michael "lied" to them (it's not the case they have been fooled by the media by blindly believing everything they told them despite the obvious oddities), they will just understand that THEIR lives are in danger IMO.
This is what I wrote above:
"maybe if he could help the world with this hoax A LOT, then it probably will end good, and most people (me included, of course) will celebrate him. But I think those who really cause this world the biggest problems, are too big fish for Michael and what he can reach with this hoax. But - of course - I don't know what's really going on in the background." ;)
I know, I'm not too optimistic about it...
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First of all I want to say that we all make mistakes and the proverb says something like the one who has never lied or sinned throws the first stone at me (or something like that)...
I think that all the "Stars" lie to make their names appear where they need them to appear...that being said the way Michael has been treated by the corrupted media who did not deserve more than Michael playing with them, has absolutely nothing to see with these supposed rumors he would have created. But I think it's clear, sorry I just have to say it because I don't understand this topic.
The hoax has very important issues to introduce to the world, it's not just to clear his name that Michael has done that. So people will certainly not focus on all these old rumors or on the fact that Michael "lied" to them (it's not the case they have been fooled by the media by blindly believing everything they told them despite the obvious oddities), they will just understand that THEIR lives are in danger IMO.
This is what I wrote above:
"maybe if he could help the world with this hoax A LOT, then it probably will end good, and most people (me included, of course) will celebrate him. But I think those who really cause this world the biggest problems, are too big fish for Michael and what he can reach with this hoax. But - of course - I don't know what's really going on in the background." ;)
I know, I'm not too optimistic about it...
Ok :D so don't worry I really feel that it's about the whole world and not only Michael Jackson. ;)
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No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer :)
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
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"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
Very true.
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Ok :D so don't worry I really feel that it's about the whole world and not only Michael Jackson. ;)
I also feel it's about the whole world, or one part of it, I'm just worried about the outcome.
Okay, the Jackson family seems to be pretty satisfied, it looks like everything is going okay, but I guess I will end worrying when I finally will know the truth.
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No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer :)
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
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No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer :)
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
Well, we don't really know what God thinks about different kind of lies in different circumstances. I just hope Michael will be happy.
About reality - I don't really get what you mean, sorry. I mean basically I understand it :) , but what is your point?
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No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer :)
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
Well, we don't really know what God thinks about different kind of lies in different circumstances. I just hope Michael will be happy.
About reality - I don't really get what you mean, sorry. I mean basically I understand it :) , but what is your point?
My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
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You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
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Actually Frank Dileo was the mastermind behind leaking all those weird stories.
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LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media
That is correct...She said it was a survival tactic for him...So that he could get where he needed to go in his career..
Oprah asked her why Michael would say it was fine to share his bed with children...She mentioned that Michael would sometimes say things to be defiant because he was so angry..
I find this to be interesting..
It's like Michael creates a false image of himself so he can protect his true self...Which is understandable in my opinion
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I was just thinking about something else I heard somewhere ( I forget where I heard/read it)...But I heard somewhere that the whole Martin Bashir interview was planned by Michael...I heard that he wanted his image to look bad for some reason...Has anyone else heard this?, I am wondering if there is any truth to that.
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LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media and I had heard before that it was him who started those rumors - to create a mystery. I also remember reading that when he was giving the tabloids the oxygen chamber and elephant man stories that he wanted them to pepper in the word "bizarre".
Perhaps it backfired on him but it kept people wondering which is what his goal was, I think.
And speaking of starting rumors, who do you think started the rumor back in Dec '08/Jan '09 that MJ "would be dead in 6 months"? ;)
Wow, I always wonder who would have predicted MJ's death six months before it happened. I think you just answered that question for me. Thanks so much, Andrea. :)
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You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
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My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
Sorry, I still don't understand... If you think (as you said) it's a little off-topic, can you explain it to me in a private message please? :) With some example please, so I can finally get it ;)
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My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
Sorry, I still don't understand... If you think (as you said) it's a little off-topic, can you explain it to me in a private message please? :) With some example please, so I can finally get it ;)
No problem, check your inbox :) ;)
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You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? :D
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge.
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
Blessings to you DreamsandTruth.
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If Michael started rumors, why not start rumours that he was on drugs, and he took propofol, to sleep. If it wasn't true about the elephant man etc... this is not true either. Michael knew what he was doing, these rumors where his escape.
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I think that when/if Michael BAMs, he will definitely have some explaining to do and I'm sure that his explanation will be quite profound and many people will accept it whatever it is. Many won't, but Michael knows this. I don't think Michael is a bad person for lying - he has his reasons and only he knows for sure what those reasons are. And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. He is very brave for taking all the risks involved with faking his death.
I think that we are an integral part of the hoax, he needs the believers to figure out the clues he left for us, to help spread awareness of the evils going on in the world and to vindicate him for all the lies that were said about him. When he BAMs, he will need us there to say I told you so to all those who just accepted that he "died" and refused to see all the evidence and clues that were left to those willing to look beyond mainstream media reporting.
This is the positive way of thinking about the outcomes - and I hope you are right and everything will be allright.
But I can't help being worried.
"And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. "
If his life was in danger then he didn't have a choice, but otherwise, IMO, he did have.
About vindication: His name is getting clearer and clearer during this hoax, and I'm very happy about it, BUT I'm afraid it can STAY that way only if he doesn't come back.
Imagine the shock of people if Michael comes back and they realize they were lied to. I don't think most of them will think "this was the right way to clear your name Michael".
Mainly because - like I said - even for me the only acceptable reason would be that his life was in danger. I don't think it's right to lie this big for other reasons. Okay, maybe if he could help the world with this hoax A LOT, then it probably will end good, and most people (me included, of course) will celebrate him. But I think those who really cause this world the biggest problems, are too big fish for Michael and what he can reach with this hoax. But -of course - I don't know what's really going on in the background.
Anyway, I will always love him and wish him the best - I'm just worried.
I LOVE what you said and i totally agree with you,i'm worried ..I know a lot of people will tell "we were right,he is strange" and a lot of people have already said "if he fake his death,i don't love him anymore" i'm just sad that people dare to think it..people love him and are sad because he died but if he comes back,they will sulk..if the reason why he fakes his death is to open people's eyes on what is going on in the World,he does it for us only..and if we will come back,I will be there,and will celebrate him too..
I really think this two reasons (for the world,and to save his life) are the only reasons possible..
Anyway I love you Michael
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You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? :D
I'm sure Michael is actually helped by God :) We all are ;)
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge.
I talk about LYING because I'm worried. Lies can make things too complicated, so there are many risks. The risks I'm thinking of are:
1, Legal risks. I have no idea how Michael's lawyers can carry this hoax on successfully, but they cannot err at all...
2, If for some reason Michael's goals with this hoax cannot be reached, or even if they can but most people don't react as Michael hopes, what will happen then?
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Why not by Michael himself too? Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Why do you believe in it? I mean, I respect your belief, I'm just curious. Mainly because I don't believe in it and I think it is pointless to feel bad about this theory. If it's not true, you only cause yourself a lot of worrying. I don't know too much about it, but I'm sure those who made movies, and wrote books and hundreds of articles about it, made A LOT OF MONEY... Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
Blessings to you DreamsandTruth.
Blessings to you too Sarahli!
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some things were started by FRANK DI LEO (see also my post in the thread Frank di Leo) and Katherine was very set up because of this but Frank said "No, this is useful" etc.
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You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? :D
I'm sure Michael is actually helped by God :) We all are ;)
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge.
I talk about LYING because I'm worried. Lies can make things too complicated, so there are many risks. The risks I'm thinking of are:
1, Legal risks. I have no idea how Michael's lawyers can carry this hoax on successfully, but they cannot err at all...
2, If for some reason Michael's goals with this hoax cannot be reached, or even if they can but most people don't react as Michael hopes, what will happen then?
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Why not by Michael himself too? Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Why do you believe in it? I mean, I respect your belief, I'm just curious. Mainly because I don't believe in it and I think it is pointless to feel bad about this theory. If it's not true, you only cause yourself a lot of worrying. I don't know too much about it, but I'm sure those who made movies, and wrote books and hundreds of articles about it, made A LOT OF MONEY... Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
Blessings to you DreamsandTruth.
Blessings to you too Sarahli!
About 2012, I was skeptical at the beginning but I now believe that something will happen, a divine intervention, even if God always is there maintaining the Creation, I just mean that this time we are coming in a time of revelations. I follow the Quran and found out that the year 2012 was embedded in it that's why I am so sure now. It's not the movie 2012 which convinced me for example but really what is in the Quran.
Regarding the lies...the only thing that got me thinking is about the family who have repeatedly said that Michael was dead, has passed etc. they lied publicly... but maybe that there is something that can back this, I don't know exactly what but in my mind all this is very elaborated and all things have been calculated in great detail.
Concerning the reaction of the people.... yes indeed we cannot expect everyone to accept the message and understand but as I said the 2012 event is so important that what people will finally think is not risky for Michael but for themselves. I don't know I feel like they will have to make a kind of big decision...I feel like it's about them, the people, Michael is just the messenger.
God bless you. :)
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About 2012, I was skeptical at the beginning but I now believe that something will happen, a divine intervention, even if God always is there maintaining the Creation, I just mean that this time we are coming in a time of revelations. I follow the Quran and found out that the year 2012 was embedded in it that's why I am so sure now. It's not the movie 2012 which convinced me for example but really what is in the Quran.
Regarding the lies...the only thing that got me thinking is about the family who have repeatedly said that Michael was dead, has passed etc. they lied publicly... but maybe that there is something that can back this, I don't know exactly what but in my mind all this is very elaborated and all things have been calculated in great detail.
Concerning the reaction of the people.... yes indeed we cannot expect everyone to accept the message and understand but as I said the 2012 event is so important that what people will finally think is not risky for Michael but for themselves. I don't know I feel like they will have to make a kind of big decision...I feel like it's about them, the people, Michael is just the messenger.
God bless you. :)
What is in the Quran about 2012? I've never heard about this connection... What people who follow the Quran think about this year? Are there many who believe what you do?
By the way I also think this hoax was / is planned very thoroughly, but it's so huge, so complex (with Murray's hearings, and all the other legal things; and too many people are involved as I see, I'm surprised there haven't been bigger slip-ups and nobody leaked/told the truth because of some personal reason or money). It's really well-done until now - at least what we can see.
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I just want to explain to you guys, why I write so much about my worries and my opinion about lies.
Honestly, my biggest reason is that I hope Michael is very careful about EVERYTHING in connection with the hoax. I know he is, mostly after those things he had to go through in his life... I wonder that he can even trust enough in those who are involved in the hoax, as so many people caused huge disappointments to him in the past. There are so many people he must trust now.
I just behave like I was his mother or big sister, even though I'm younger and way less experienced than he is. But this is how I feel.
In a complex thing like this hoax, every little detail must be thought over. And you have to have a good intuition and knowledge about psychology to predict how people will react.
I cannot really imagine it can be carried out without problems occuring here and there.
I write this much about these because if Michael or someone near to him reads this (there can be a little chance, maybe) I just would like to tell him:
Be careful Michael, even when you feel you thought of everything a hundred times, think them over again. Please. Think over every little detail, every possibility (even if they don't seem possible to happen). I know I don't need to give you these basic advice, but I feel better doing it. Like saying: "Drive safe" :)
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I totally agree with this being a God-thing, and Michael having God's direction and protection. About the lying, I don't think we are aware of how much we are being lied to or mislead every day, have been since Adam and Eve, and we just learn all these lies as small children when we learn our culture, religion, the way things go. Like a form of double-speak we simply incorporate the lies as truth into our consciousness. God may simply choose not to reveal everything to us, allows culture, religion and ruling powers to implement strategies to control and calm people. Reality in a way is very mysterious, difficult to completely trust our senses, emotions and rational thinking. :) :? ;)
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Does it really matter whether Michael OR his camp started 1 or 2 false stories MANY years ago? If they did, I believe they did it with maximum 2 stories, the one about Michael sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber and the one about Michael wanting to buy the Elephant Man's bones. And who knows, maybe those stories were a test to see how fans or the general public would react...
If we really think about it:
1. Michael sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber -- Should have been obvious to everyone that this was far-fetched and most probably false!
2. Wanting to buy Elephant Man bones -- Why not?! Is this story "bizarre" in itself? I don't think so. Michael was a rich man (deservedly so), and rich people collect all sorts of things...
What Michael said in interviews about those stories is the following:
1. MJ bought a hyperbaric chamber to donate to a hospital's Burns Unit (after his Pepsi commercial incident), and took a "test run" in it upon visiting the hospital. Someone took a pic of Michael lying in that thing and leaked it to the press. What if MJ was right, in that someone from his camp released the photo to the press without his knowledge?!
2. MJ saw the Elephant Man's bones at a museum in London (or something like that) and was fascinated by them. He identified with the Elephant Man in the sense that he felt he didn't belong in society. In an early interview MJ didn't deny that he wanted to purchase the bones, but in the 1993 Oprah interview he indirectly said (implied) that he'd never purchased them - which I do believe he didn't actually do. There may have been an interest/intent, but MJ didn't go through with it... And even if he had, I don't understand why it would ever have been a big deal.
I don't think MJ lied much over the years... But yes, he did choose his words carefully. Most people in his shoes would have lied MUCH more during a 40+ year career, especially in that harsh a spotlight (which NO ONE ELSE in this world endured). So I really think we should give MJ a break. I'm saddened by the fact that this thread started at all.
As for LIES, sometimes they are NECESSARY. I was watching a Bill Maher show recently, and someone raised this question: Imagine you're in WW II Germany/Poland, hiding Jews in your basement. If the "authorities" knock on your door and question you, do you lie (about the Jews in your basement) or do you tell the truth? I would lie! The same goes for other situations... For instance, you don't tell a person who's really ill or dying "Gee, you don't look too good!" There are scenarios in which the right (moral) thing is to lie.
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Regarding MJ manipulating the media:
My opinion is, not really. MJ would need to have AND use something like a propaganda machine for that, and he didn't really have/do that. There were so many things that he kept private for so long... such as vitiligo and all the good deeds done for numerous children and charitable organizations. Had Michael wanted to put out amazingly good stories about him, he could easily have done it! But he didn't, he kept quiet - until he was attacked and accused and was forced to defend himself.
And no, I don't believe for one second that MJ wanted the world to think he was a child molester! That was something that hurt him to the core - and Tom Mesereau, among others, said that. Did Michael say some things during the Bashir interview in defiance, or because he was sick of Bashir's questioning?! I think that's quite possible... I felt that Michael was often irritated by Batshit's questions. But did Michael want to look bad, or did he imagine that the s*** would hit the fan? No, I don't believe that... I think MJ had his own cameraman tape the interview precisely for that sort of contingency - in case something went wrong (i.e. interview got edited in outrageous ways).
MJ was a genius, but he did make mistakes... The whole Bashir thing was one of them. But of course it's easier to see that in retrospect than it would have been for Michael to realize at the time. Bashir came with a good reference from Lady Diana... Michael was smart enough to make his own tape, but since the media were eager to jump on any BAD NEWS and not so interested in good news, it didn't matter much that MJ released his own tape - it only mattered for purposes of the 2005 trial.
If someone were a real "master" at manipulating the media, would they be crucified by it?
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DreamsandTruth
For 2012 and the Quran... no, very few people know about it and it is not that long since I discovered it...when I talk about it around me people don't take it seriously at all. It makes me think of the numerology of this hoax and the fact that people don't believe it even if it gives a clear message. I made a post about it if you are interested: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12426&start=75 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12426&start=75)
I understand your concern about the risks but I don't know why I have no worries, it's just a feeling that I have and I know that things will be ok. We are here for a purpose I am sure about that, we are useful in some ways and the only fact to come here and show support to Michael for what he is doing is lowering the risks level, at least this is how I see it. Blessings. :)
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DreamsandTruth
For 2012 and the Quran... no, very few people know about it and it is not that long since I discovered it...when I talk about it around me people don't take it seriously at all. It makes me think of the numerology of this hoax and the fact that people don't believe it even if it gives a clear message. I made a post about it if you are interested: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12426&start=75 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12426&start=75)
I understand your concern about the risks but I don't know why I have no worries, it's just a feeling that I have and I know that things will be ok. We are here for a purpose I am sure about that, we are useful in some ways and the only fact to come here and show support to Michael for what he is doing is lowering the risks level, at least this is how I see it. Blessings. :)
Hi Sarahli,
This is really interesting what you found in the Quran! I think you may ask the opinion of an open-minded imam (I'm sorry, I don't really know, who represents the priest in your religion), so someone who understands the Quran very well.
I myself am very careful with numerology for quite a while, as in the past I fooled myself with it a little ;) I still believe it can be helpful, but these esoteric things can mislead us very easily too - I learned that. When I was looking for an answer in my life, a sign, I always found a lot. With the help of numerology or by listening to the things around me, I always found many things which seemed to confirm the answer I was looking for.
So I had to realize that it is my own mind which creates these signs for me. As I thought a lot for finding clues, my subsconscious focused on them, so I found them. I heard the song with the right answers, I found the numbers which fitted into my theory, etc.
BUT NOTHING HAPPENED. So finally I gave up looking for signs with that kind of "focusing for signgs"-way I did. I listen to them now only VERY moderately. And I find it very hard to decide what can I consider as a possible sign, and what are those things which I should find just a coincidence or the play of my fantasy.
But this is only my story, what you found can easily have an important meaning. We can never know.
By the way you are very lucky that you have no worries about the hoax :) I have a bad feeling about it since I know of it, but I I'm not absolutely pessimistic either ;)
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To DREAMSandTRUTH and anyone else who may be worried about Michael lying and the consequences of those lies.
I too get worried, but then I remembered this thread posted by Mo.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10035 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10035)
It's Michael's message. Please watch the videos, at least the first couple for sure because you will realize that Michael HAD to lie for the death hoax to happen so he can come back and expose the HUGE lies that go on in the world everyday. These videos are excellent. And you'll then ask yourself - what will people be more mad about - Michael lying to tell us the truth, or the fact that we've all been lied to our whole lives by the governments that are supposed to protect us and guarantee our rights??
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To DREAMSandTRUTH and anyone else who may be worried about Michael lying and the consequences of those lies.
I too get worried, but then I remembered this thread posted by Mo.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10035 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10035)
It's Michael's message. Please watch the videos, at least the first couple for sure because you will realize that Michael HAD to lie for the death hoax to happen so he can come back and expose the HUGE lies that go on in the world everyday. These videos are excellent. And you'll then ask yourself - what will people be more mad about - Michael lying to tell us the truth, or the fact that we've all been lied to our whole lives by the governments that are supposed to protect us and guarantee our rights??
Thank you, Andrea, to try to help me! I followed your advice and watched those videos.
But I have to tell that I don't feel better...
I posted my opinion there, I copy it here for you:
Hi guys,
I watched all the videos here. And I tried to think over this theory of Souza and Mo.
The person mentioned in the first video - Aaron Russo is not here with us anymore... After he spoke up against the Rockefellers' plans he died. Maybe he was killed, maybe he dared to speak up because he was really very sick by then and the doctors gave him just a few months, so he had not too much to loose. Anyway, it doesn't sound good...
The documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" (mentioned in the video Part 4a) is just great, I saw it about half a year ago, and I can only recommend it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1020027/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1020027/)
There were so many famous professors co-operating in it who told their opinions about this global warming hoax, that I think they dared to speak up because they hoped it would really be suspicious if all of them just died after the documentary. But one of them told in the film that he was seriously threatened!
I just tried to compare Michael's hoax with this brilliant, mind-opening documentary.
I guess these professors were this successful with their film, because they didn't tell the whole world that they were planning to reveal all the lies in this world about global warming. I'm not sure they really kept it a secret until broadcasting it, but I think this could be the only way to be able to reach their goal safely.
If they talked about doing such a documentary, I guess those who fool us with this global warming, would have the opportunity given to make these professors stop doing/broadcasting this documentary.
So - why is Michael making his hoax this obvious if he wants to speak up against the NWO and the Illuminati? Against such dangerous persons? Does he want to give them enough time to prepare against his goal? If we know about this hoax, then the NWO surely knows about it and tries to prevent Michael from implementing his plans - don't you think?
IMHO speaking against the NWO or Illuminati is only effective (and possible) if you surprise them.
I could imagine Michael gathering lots of polititians, celebrities etc, to a big concert which is broadcasted live everywhere, and surprise the NWO by telling the truth about them. That would be effective, I think. But this hoax?
Michael is not concealing that he is planning something big - so I don't understand.
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I really understand your fears DreamsandTruth and in a sense you are very right we are dealing with evil people. I know that and of course it is not without risk. But the thing is that if nothing is done things will get worse than they are already. So in my view of what the world has become and what the dark side has left for us it is highly necessary to act now no matter how risky it can be. The future they want for us is worse than what is already here... I see all that as the last chance to get things right... we must try... we really have to or the worst will really have to come. One day or the other we will have to talk publicly if we want the world to know, the truth has to be told because enough is enough of all the lies. They really don't give a damn about us, they take people's lives and get away with it (momentarily of course I believe in God's Justice), we are just potential slaves and already in the way to slavery (financially talking it is already the case).
Regarding the effect of surprise... we don't really know if the dark side takes all this seriously... and they don't know how Michael will 'surprise' them. I think that Michael wants an effective way to expose them...meaning not just by pointing a finger but by proving it...I trully and deeply believe that God is helping Michael in all this that's why I feel deeply inside that Michael's plan is destined to prevail, to succeed. This is really the time, the moment. I know it in my heart. The truth is destined to prevail and justice will be served. Even if I don't have a clue as to how things will evolve I have my faith and it keeps me going and trusting in this hoax. I know that what I have said will not really help you because this is more about how I sense things and not real answers as to prove that things are safe. But as I said above risks have to be taken into account, there are risks.
The documentary you have talked about is unfortunately not seen by the majority and even here we are a minority. I mean that the biggest task is to reach the masses on a global scale, every home, every person is a target because this is the only way to raise the level of awareness enough for that the beginning of a change can really be a reality and not more be considered as wishful thinking or utterances from delusional people. For one time it can be considered as a real possibility and why not become a reality. This is to give humanity a chance because most people don't have a clue as to what is the level of lies and corruption we have reached, even myself I discover everyday new lies and misconceptions and it goes back to the history of our world. They have shaped it so that it serves their evil agenda and I want the truth to be restored, I would take the necessary risks if I had to. All adventures are risky but in the end the recompense is immense and worth the risks taken.
I think that we are coming in a time where we have nothing to lose but everything to win, a time for the truth to be known,a time of revelations. If we don't do anything because we fear... we will surely regret it.
So really I just have to tell you to keep the faith... but I know you have it already :) ;) Blessings to you.
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Thank you Sarahli, for your encouraging letter! :)
I write my answers/thoughts into your post, as it is easier now.I really understand your fears DreamsandTruth and in a sense you are very right we are dealing with evil people. I know that and of course it is not without risk. But the thing is that if nothing is done things will get worse than they are already. So in my view of what the world has become and what the dark side has left for us it is highly necessary to act now no matter how risky it can be. I absolutely agree that we must do something effective now/really soon (well, we always should do our best), BUT IMO with the less risk as possible. If something is too risky, and we fail, we can get into a bigger trouble than we are. To make an act less risky, we have to think over every little detail - which I'm sure Michael and those who help him did - I'm just worried because this hoax is too complex. There are million little things to think of, it seems too complicated, therefore more risky. But as I said this is only what I can see, I don't know what really is going on, what Michael's real plans and goals are, and how carefully they planned everything. The future they want for us is worse than what is already here... I see all that as the last chance to get things right... we must try... we really have to or the worst will really have to come. One day or the other we will have to talk publicly if we want the world to know, the truth has to be told because enough is enough of all the lies. They really don't give a damn about us, they take people's lives and get away with it (momentarily of course I believe in God's Justice), we are just potential slaves and already in the way to slavery (financially talking it is already the case).
Regarding the effect of surprise... we don't really know if the dark side takes all this seriously... I don't think they leave anything to chance... and they don't know how Michael will 'surprise' them. Only if they don't have a spy... I know it sounds like I watch too much movie, but... I think that Michael wants an effective way to expose them...meaning not just by pointing a finger but by proving it... I think a concert organized by Michael I wrote about above, broadcasted everywhere live would do it just beautifully. With polititians telling the truth about NWO to all people, professors talking about the global warming being a hoax, and artists talking about the dark side of the music and the movie industry, etc. This wouldn't be risky, and everyone would get the messages clearly. The proofs would be a little harder to gather and to show, but I believe they could do it somehow. And if there are enough trustworthy people there on the stage, people would at least think over what they said. and I trully and deeply believe that God is helping Michael in all this that's why I feel deeply inside that Michael's plan is destined to prevail, to succeed. This is really the time, the moment. I know it in my heart. The truth is destined to prevail and justice will be served. Even if I don't have a clue as to how things will evolve I have my faith and it keeps me going and trusting in this hoax. I know that what I have said will not really help you because this is more about how I sense things and not real answers as to prove that things are safe. But as I said above risks have to be taken into account, there are risks.
The documentary you have talked about is unfortunately not seen by the majority and even here we are a minority. I mean that the biggest task is to reach the masses on a global scale, every home, every person is a target because this is the only way to raise the level of awareness enough for that the beginning of a change can really be a reality and not more be considered as wishful thinking or utterances from delusional people. For one time it can be considered as a real possibility and why not become a reality. This is to give humanity a chance because most people don't have a clue as to what is the level of lies and corruption we have reached, even myself I discover everyday new lies and misconceptions and it goes back to the history of our world. They have shaped it so that it serves their evil agenda and I want the truth to be restored, I would take the necessary risks if I had to. All adventures are risky but in the end the recompense is immense and worth the risks taken.
I think that we are coming in a time where we have nothing to lose but everything to win, a time for the truth to be known,a time of revelations. If we don't do anything because we fear... we will surely regret it.
So really I just have to tell you to keep the faith... but I know you have it already :) ;) Blessings to you.
Well, I try to keep the faith that this hoax will end just perfectly, but the fact that we don't know the details doesn't really help me... But I keep praying.
Anyway, thanks again Sarahli! :)
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You're welcome my dear... for the risks yes it is better to lower them as much as possible... I have always in mind that this hoax has been in the planning for many years so it gives time to consider the major risks and maybe even more. I hope so and as you said the hoax is so complex that I think that we only scratched the surface of it.
For the dark side... yes you are right (again ;) ) they don't let anything by chance and surely they know but I believe in God so let them scheme God is the Best schemer.
Maybe that the BAM will look like what you've described :D we don't really know. Also the BAM is not the end it's the beginning of something else.
For the rumors and lies subject... makes me think of the story of Joseph who had to used that subterfuge in order to bring back his brother to him.
Blessings to you DREAMSandTRUTH (in capital letters sorry). :)
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You're welcome my dear... for the risks yes it is better to lower them as much as possible... I have always in mind that this hoax has been in the planning for many years so it gives time to consider the major risks and maybe even more. I hope so and as you said the hoax is so complex that I think that we only scratched the surface of it.
For the dark side... yes you are right (again ;) ) they don't let anything by chance and surely they know but I believe in God so let them scheme God is the Best schemer.
Maybe that the BAM will look like what you've described :D we don't really know. Also the BAM is not the end it's the beginning of something else.
For the rumors and lies subject... makes me think of the story of Joseph who had to used that subterfuge in order to bring back his brother to him.
Blessings to you DREAMSandTRUTH (in capital letters sorry). :)
Thank you again, Sarahli, for trying to make me less worried! :) I have to tell that your kind words and persistence really helped! ;) Thank you so much! I feel much better :)
I'm still a little worried, but this lower level is normal - considering the circumstances.
As I said before, basically I started to talk about the risks in this thread, because I hoped Michael reads it, and I just wanted to ask him: CHECK EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN!
Well, I know he does it, he had too many bad experiences :(
It just must be very hard to keep an open eye for this long, listening to every little detail.
I hope the truth can be told very soon and we can help him. I wish to hear his voice, seeing him on tv, when he says his messages - these clues are not too clear. I mean you can never know who is behind them. But when he comes back and tells how we can help, it will be so much better!
Blessings to you Sarahli, and thanks again! :)
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I think that Michael must read the Forum... but there are so many posts... I hope that he'll read yours even if I'm sure that all things have been taken into account... but I think that it must feel good to know that some fans really care for him as you do. I'm happy to know that I have been helpful; sending you a hug. ;)
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I think that Michael must read the Forum... but there are so many posts... I hope that he'll read yours even if I'm sure that all things have been taken into account... but I think that it must feel good to know that some fans really care for him as you do. I'm happy to know that I have been helpful; sending you a hug. ;)
MANY-MANY, uncountable fans care for him at least as I do, I'm sure. :) And what is even greater is that there are many great persons who care about everyday people just as much - like you do. A big hug to you too :)
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IThink they were, even though he did complain about them, they did seem pretty lame, seems like something cute he would make up.