Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TMZ.com => Michael Jackson News => TMZ Articles => Topic started by: Serenitys_Dream on December 29, 2010, 05:21:30 PM
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D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
15 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/12/29/1229-mj-bn-tmz-02.jpg)
L.A. County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
More Michael Jackson
* Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
* Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses
* Evidence of Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death
http://www.tmz.com/2010/12/29/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murrary-killed-himself-propofol-overdose-od-manslaughter-case-prosecutor/
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Huh?
Nope, it isn't sounding right...
"Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom,"
Who died, Murray or Michael?
Who left the room, Murray or Michael?
Who went to the bathroom, Murray or Michael?
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How would it be possible that Michael injected Propofol into the injection port of an IV that was in his lower leg?
That is completely ridiculous!
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So it's very obvious that TS and TMZ work together. I actually like it when I see a firm reminder of that. I think Souza mentioned first that the latest TIAI re-direct focuses on Murray's hearing and then the TMZ articles start, about Murray and then the bizarre autopsy one.
These stories are utterly ridiculous, it seems like the hoax is literally shouting at people to sit up and take notice. It's quite amusing actually.
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Of course Michael "killed" himself. This whole thing was his idea. ;)
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If MJ´s dead it wouldn´t be suicide, cause he loved life so much and beyond that HIS KIDS.
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Why dont Murray's lawyers close a deal with the DA: MJ killed himself. After that they can all have sushi. Yawn!
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Shamone people, what a bunck of utter bull shit!! I like the 'what TMZ told you back in April'... Yes Harve, you knew but you cheat. And I agree, MJ 'killed' himself, no one else.
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Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
Well, now we must be alert to the reaction of the whole family :geek: ... and the fans who think that Michael was killed :shock: :geek:
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I wrote this in the wrong thread so I'll paste it here:
Another TS connection to TMZ's Michael stories today.
There have been 3 stories (so far) today. Here are the times:
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
12/29/2010 12:40 AM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+4= 7
MJ Estate: Discovery Channel Is 'Debased, Sick'
12/29/2010 12:22 PM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+2+2= 7
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 3+4 = 7
Triple Seven.
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I wrote this in the wrong thread so I'll paste it here:
Another TS connection to TMZ's Michael stories today.
There have been 3 stories (so far) today. Here are the times:
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
12/29/2010 12:40 AM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+4= 7
MJ Estate: Discovery Channel Is 'Debased, Sick'
12/29/2010 12:22 PM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+2+2= 7
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 3+4 = 7
Triple Seven.
:o what a coinkidoink! :lol:
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I wrote this in the wrong thread so I'll paste it here:
Another TS connection to TMZ's Michael stories today.
There have been 3 stories (so far) today. Here are the times:
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
12/29/2010 12:40 AM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+4= 7
MJ Estate: Discovery Channel Is 'Debased, Sick'
12/29/2010 12:22 PM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+2+2= 7
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 3+4 = 7
Triple Seven.
:o what a coinkidoink! :lol:
PERFECT! I LOOOOOVE those cooincidences)!
So Glad TS is here with us and showing us the LIGHT.
With L.O.V.E
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I wrote this in the wrong thread so I'll paste it here:
Another TS connection to TMZ's Michael stories today.
There have been 3 stories (so far) today. Here are the times:
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
12/29/2010 12:40 AM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+4= 7
MJ Estate: Discovery Channel Is 'Debased, Sick'
12/29/2010 12:22 PM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+2+2= 7
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 3+4 = 7
Triple Seven.
:o what a coinkidoink! :lol:
:shock: :lol:
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Then, why bother 30 witnesses + jury+judge+attorneys+LAPD+ MJ family and fans go to court for 2 weeks?
Just f...g close the case DA or simply say it "We have doubt that Mr. Jackson passed away. We need to perform an exhumation"! I got questions htough:
1. Wasn't Murrey saying that the amount of propofol given to MJ was too small? this means he injected the full consistence of propofol in syringe. Then how Michael could get large amount of Propofol from the bottle himself and inject through IV when we know that MJ is 1. scared of those equipments and 2.is not med. professional.
2. At last, if there was no propofol left in syringe either way, what defense attorney is going to check just now?
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The title is very misleading. It suggests that the prosecutor agrees with Murray's defense, when in fact all he says is that it's clear to him that that will be the defense's approach.
Either way.... it's total B.S.
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According to a similar article on Yahoo they found a broken syringe and an unidentified fingerprint u don't say why does this come out until now? Come on!!! Michael did kill himself yes no one else did it. The man continues to be "dead" until he decides. Now, a broken syringe most syringes used nowadays are plastic it's rare that glass syringes are used. That is so old.
http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jack ... --61990880 (http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jackson/news/prosecutor-defense-will-claim-jackson-killed-self--61990880)
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Hello guys,
First of Merry Christmas and Happy new year.
I am a pharmacist and in the biotechnology field as well. I started to doubt this whole case from the beginning because of the medical facts. Of course no way on earth, he could commit suicide using propofol, because this drug has rapid onset, and action, and you're out in a matter of seconds like some members here mentioned. Murray knows quite well what he was doing in that day he is not stupid, he gave him a perfect anesthesia cocktail to knock him down, i even sat with an anesthesiologist, and he told me he supposedly died from that?!!! he was shocked, he said the dosage is perfect and he even can take more. I believe that Michael was taken against his will on that day, and i did an investigation on that and the medical stuff. You can check it on the link that i will provide, the whole thing, and am gonna write some here, it's too long and that's why i will provide you with the link just in case you're interested, i don't believe that this is a case done by Michael, it's a hoax done on us by those who did harm Michael to divert us away from the truth.
here is the link as well, you're gonna fine all the information under "the trap section"
http://unitedformichael.weebly.com/
and check this as well, a summary to rowe's book is added, if you're interested
http://realitycheck1.weebly.com/
This is part of my findings:
"This is what happened in the meeting with the anthesiologist:
I met with him and he sat down with me and explained everything to me and i have to say what he told me is the same as i said.
He said: After seeing the doses and calculating it based on Michael's information these doses aren't lethal at all, on the contrary it's suitable with him as a patient, and the cocktail of drugs is a perfect anesthesia to knock down a person and put them to sleep, he told me if you want to leave them for a long time you're gonna give the propofol as an IV infusion (because we can control the rate like this), and one shot only for sedation. The drug Lorazepam, he told me we don't usually use it we only use it if we want to control the patient (if the patient is resistant and doesn't want to comply, which could explain why it was used if he was taken against his will he was sure fighting back and they had to control him). I asked him about the antidote as well, he told me this is usually used in emergency cases, if there is a problem happened they inject the antidote to overcome the problem. The only danger if the propofol would be taken alone without control then it could be lethal.
Conclusion: This cocktail is not lethal and is a perfect anesthesia usually used, he told me that whoever did this cocktail knows what he was doing, this is not lethal at all and if there is control then it's perfect.
This was a professional opinion, this is one thing that proves one point in the plot i believe in."
Take care and have a nice day, love and peace[/color]
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I guess we have two different threads on the same subject.
Well, I'll post here that I agree with you scorpionchik.
Also, I've worked with the assumption that Murray is fake and not a real doctor. But, what if that assumption is wrong? What if he is a real doc and having done something illegal, Michael has helped to catch him in the act? No matter what, Murray has admitted to giving propofol to his patient -- without proper equipment or coverage -- and no matter the dosage, no doctor is to give propofol to anyone outside a hospital. Murray's already admitted to this and he is negligent no matter what. Somehow, he thinks it's okay to say he didn't give MJ enough propofol to kill him eventhough he shouldn't have give him any of it!! Even if it was remotely possible for Michael to have awakened and administered this himself, (laughable and ridiculous, but let's go with it for a moment), Murray created the climate to incite this behavior and he put his patient in harm's way. No matter what, this is the truth until or unless Murray says that he is a paid actor and is not a doctor. Otherwise, perhaps it is actually meant for Murray to be exposed as an unethical doctor and MJ set him up so that the entire house of cards will come tumbling down?
That said, none of this is fitting together well for me. :(
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Here is another article of the same subject has interesting details.
Prosecutor: Defense will claim Jackson killed self
AP, Dec 29, 2010 5:32 pm PST
The defense for the doctor facing trial for involuntary manslaughter in Michael Jackson's death will suggest the singer actually killed himself, a prosecutor said during a hearing Wednesday."I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself," said Deputy District Attorney David Walgren.
"They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
The statement came at a hearing where a lawyer for Dr. Conrad Murray clashed with the prosecutor over who should test residue from two syringes found in Jackson's bedroom.
Defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan declined to comment on any theories of defense outside court and said lawyers were still investigating the case.
A preliminary hearing is scheduled to begin Jan. 4 after which Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor will decide if there is sufficient evidence to hold Murray for trial. The issue of residue in the syringes is unlikely to be brought up in that hearing, attorneys said.
Jackson died on June 25, 2009, of what was later found to be acute Propofol intoxication, with other sedatives found to have been a contributing factor.
But Flanagan told Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor that a huge amount of the anesthetic Propofol — possibly 150 milligrams — would have had to be present in Jackson's body to reach the level that killed him. He noted that Dr. Murray has said he gave him only 25 milligrams of the drug along with small amounts of benzodiazopines — sedative drugs — to help him sleep.
There have been suggestions that during a brief period when Murray left the room Jackson, possibly desperate for sleep, could have injected himself with more of the Propofol.
Flanagan said a broken syringe was found on the bedroom floor in addition to a syringe in an intravenous medication bag. He said a fingerprint found on the broken syringe hasn't been identified.
http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jack ... --61990880 (http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jackson/news/prosecutor-defense-will-claim-jackson-killed-self--61990880)
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tmz link doesn't seem to want to work.
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Twiggy from MJHOAXLIVE, said she has talked to witnesses that saw Murray running from carolwood dve on the 25th June 2009.
I am in a rush, but just check her website..
Linda from StarMaps, also believes Michael is alive......and she should know.
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I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown from lack of sleep and excessive hyperventilation. I'm heading over there right now :shock:
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what's the link? I don't have it since I'm using another computer.
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Hello guys,
First of Merry Christmas and Happy new year.
I am a pharmacist and in the biotechnology field as well. I started to doubt this whole case from the beginning because of the medical facts. Of course no way on earth, he could commit suicide using propofol, because this drug has rapid onset, and action, and you're out in a matter of seconds like some members here mentioned. Murray knows quite well what he was doing in that day he is not stupid, he gave him a perfect anesthesia cocktail to knock him down, i even sat with an anesthesiologist, and he told me he supposedly died from that?!!! he was shocked, he said the dosage is perfect and he even can take more. I believe that Michael was taken against his will on that day, and i did an investigation on that and the medical stuff. You can check it on the link that i will provide, the whole thing, and am gonna write some here, it's too long and that's why i will provide you with the link just in case you're interested, i don't believe that this is a case done by Michael, it's a hoax done on us by those who did harm Michael to divert us away from the truth.
here is the link as well, you're gonna fine all the information under "the trap section"
http://unitedformichael.weebly.com/
and check this as well, a summary to rowe's book is added, if you're interested
http://realitycheck1.weebly.com/
This is part of my findings:
"This is what happened in the meeting with the anthesiologist:
I met with him and he sat down with me and explained everything to me and i have to say what he told me is the same as i said.
He said: After seeing the doses and calculating it based on Michael's information these doses aren't lethal at all, on the contrary it's suitable with him as a patient, and the cocktail of drugs is a perfect anesthesia to knock down a person and put them to sleep, he told me if you want to leave them for a long time you're gonna give the propofol as an IV infusion (because we can control the rate like this), and one shot only for sedation. The drug Lorazepam, he told me we don't usually use it we only use it if we want to control the patient (if the patient is resistant and doesn't want to comply, which could explain why it was used if he was taken against his will he was sure fighting back and they had to control him). I asked him about the antidote as well, he told me this is usually used in emergency cases, if there is a problem happened they inject the antidote to overcome the problem. The only danger if the propofol would be taken alone without control then it could be lethal.
Conclusion: This cocktail is not lethal and is a perfect anesthesia usually used, he told me that whoever did this cocktail knows what he was doing, this is not lethal at all and if there is control then it's perfect.
This was a professional opinion, this is one thing that proves one point in the plot i believe in."
Take care and have a nice day, love and peace[/color]
Yes, this is good information but you have to add to it that the family are all willing participants and are keeping up the charade to support the kidnappers. That's a big family. It's hard to have everyone agree in a big family as it is, and getting them all to agree to conspire against their own?
It's much easier for me, given the available information over the past 18 months, to believe that the Jacksons are helping Michael with a hoax, rather then believing that the Jacksons, all of them, are helping a kidnapper cover up a violent crime against their brother/son/father/uncle.
Because there are many things that the Jacksons alone have had control over or said/did/arrange throughout all of the post-6/25 activity that would indicate that they are assisting in some charade here. Things such as the burial with the exclusive use of Liberian Girl photos (reportedly picked out by Katherine herself), the filming in HD, the date, the time, being very very late, Jermaine Jackson and his Punks Not Dead shirt on LKL in August 2009, his tribute in Vienna, his announcement at UCLA, his "airport" slip up, his LKL interview on 6/25/10 at Forest Lawn, "light up your face with sadness", "the truth will come out, it will all come out"... Latoya "like a magic trick" regarding her brother's alleged "killer" and the investigation... Janet who can't remember where she was when she heard her beloved big bro died, and smiles and laughs through out an interview about and shortly after his death... Joe and... everything he has said/done... Katherine hawking a book and selling memorabilia, never visiting her son's gave? No one suing Sony even though they are all screaming about how the vocals on the album are fake. No one making a statement about how the media crucified their brother/son/father/uncle and destroyed his life, work, and reputation. No one calling out the world on their hypocrisy of suddenly now loving MJ since he's safely dead... despite Janet being so PISSED at the VMAs in 09 her fury was publically apparent. So many more things that makes it clear that the family is involved in this, whatever it is, too.
But you'd have to be doing this death hoax full time to realize all this so I'm so glad you posted, especially considering your profession, because you're right, completely, the information just adds up to a slightly different conclusion then kidnap or murder. It's like you added the 1+1 and didn't know there was an additional 1 to add. So the sum is 3, not 2, just keep going down the road that you began on, because you're on the right track.
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Katharine shopping away at Target the next day after Michael passed always gave it away for me as well...great list though of great reminders!
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Also when they ruled MJ`s a homocide didn`t they state that one of the reasons was because they were positive that he could not have done it himself. Seems like a redundant defence when it`s already been pretty much excluded as a cause of death.
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Katharine shopping away at Target the next day after Michael passed always gave it away for me as well...great list though of great reminders!
Not the same day, June 29th she was at Target and all of a sudden some reporter was right there to make a video of her shopping sleeping bags. ;)
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Twiggy from MJHOAXLIVE, said she has talked to witnesses that saw Murray running from carolwood dve on the 25th June 2009.
I am in a rush, but just check her website..
Linda from StarMaps, also believes Michael is alive......and she should know.
Exactly. News was announcing police is looking for MJ's personal doctor who disappeared. But Katherine Jackson told Oprah at the hospital she was waiting for hours to someone to come out and tell her what going on with MJ and finally doctor Murrey was the one who came out and told her Michael is gone. ;) Who's Linda from Starmaps? Link please
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This is the defence story previously published by TMZ...
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
4/5/2010 4:15 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/05/0326_michael_jackson_ex.jpg)
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, but the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
More Michael Jackson
* Dr. Murray: Why Apologize? I Did Nothing Wrong
* Conrad Murray -- I Tried Saving Michael Jackson
* Michael Jackson Coroner Report - House of Drugs
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-death-cause-iv-addict-overdose-heart-legal-defense/
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Michael Jackson doctor's defense to focus on second syringe
By Victoria Kim, Los Angeles Times December 30, 2010
'Who injected the propofol? That's the issue in this case,' Conrad Murray's lawyer tells judge at hearing.
(http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-12/58508547.jpg)
An attorney for the doctor facing an involuntary manslaughter charge in the death of pop star Michael Jackson indicated at a hearing Wednesday that the defense will focus on a second syringe found at the singer's bedside.
Attorney J. Michael Flanagan, representing Dr. Conrad Murray, told the judge the syringe may have been used by someone other than the doctor to administer the powerful anesthetic that caused Jackson's death June 25, 2009.
"Who injected the propofol? That's the issue in this case," Flanagan told Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor.
Wednesday's hearing was over a defense request for a court order allowing the county coroner's office to test the quantity of the drugs in two syringes and an IV bag found in Jackson's room at the Holmby Hills mansion he was leasing. One syringe was connected to the IV and clearly used by Murray to administer drugs, Flanagan said. The other was found on the floor, broken, with an unidentified fingerprint, according to the attorney.
"We all know which syringe the doctor used," Flanagan said, comparing the situation with police finding two .38-caliber guns at a crime scene and figuring out "which of these guns did it."
In early statements to police, Murray said he gave the singer 25 milligrams — half the regular dose. In his argument, Flanagan implied that the dosage administered by Murray may not explain the amount of the drug in Jackson's blood. A mix of propofol and lidocaine were found in both syringes, Flanagan said.
"The evidence is going to show later in the case that a very large dose of propofol is needed to get to the level in Michael Jackson's blood," the attorney said.
Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren said the defense appeared to be gearing up to argue that the second syringe was used by the singer to administer propofol to himself.
"I think it's clear they're operating under the theory that the victim in this case, Michael Jackson, killed himself," he told the judge. "They don't want to say it. They're walking around it."
Outside court, Flanagan declined to comment on the prosecutor's statement, saying, "That was his assessment."
Pastor told the attorneys that he would allow the coroner to conduct the test if Murray's defense acknowledges they were notified of the "risks and limitations" associated with testing the limited sample. He said he is also willing to allow both sides to split the sample if the defense wanted an outside lab to conduct the test.
A preliminary hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence for Murray's trial to go forward is scheduled to begin Tuesday.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-murray-20101230,0,5593349.story
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Haven't' they checked fingerprints on syringe and bottle whether they are Michael's or doctor's? This is real joke not investigation. Everybody speculating instead of taking legal steps to find answers. :lol: Should we direct them how to investigate? :lol:
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(http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-12/58508547.jpg)
I've commented previously about the hearing, but I'm noticing something about this photo. Is it just me or can you see how pale Murray's skin is around his hairline? On almost every picture I see of him, his skin is never quite the same all over and somewhere, there's always a pale blotch. But, never a blotch that's in the same place on his face or neck in every picture. I think the last time I looked at a photo of Murray a few months ago, the pale patch of skin was close to his ear. Now, it's around his forehead and hairline. And remember the very first photo the public saw with the blotchiness on his hand? Interesting.
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That's the light. It's because of the shadow and light.
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Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
Well, now we must be alert to the reaction of the whole family :geek: ... and the fans who think that Michael was killed :shock: :geek:
I think most of the fans will jump on the "he would never do that" wagon... :lol:
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I'm not sure who the heck Murray actually is but I really really feel there are multiple Murray's, at least 3 that we keep seeing. There is the one that spoke on video and seemed sort of Michael-like and then there was a really dark skinned one who seemed shorter than this big and tall dude swaggering along with the cops leading him. We have seen the tall one jogging and bare legged in photos but something still looks off to me when he is in his dressy clothes, like he's not filling out his clothes and he's always bent over and slouching near the waist line and holding his gut and the way he has those shifty eyes, sipping his drinks etc....something stinks with Murray big time!
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DA Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff
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The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will Argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
LA County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense was operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself." LA County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that When he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson and awakened in a moment or Frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol. Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
Walgren said in court, "They do not want to say it but that's the direction in Which They are going." Walgren said in court, "They don'tTo read th want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
e defense theory on MJ killing himself, CLICK HERE . To read the defense theory on MJ killing himself, CLICK HERE .
More Michael Jackson More Michael Jackson
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got? Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses
Evidence or Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death Evidence of Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... a_jGyn8URQ (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=af&tl=en&u=http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-death-cause-iv-addict-overdose-heart-legal-defense/&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&anno=2&usg=ALkJrhgOQS8PsuFVozL4IIspa_jGyn8URQ)
I think this page has changed there is now a link to click to the story back in May and a poll which I dont remember seeing before? time to vote again me thinks! :shock: Vote currently 58% BS :?
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SoldierofLOVE, Murray looks like a manikin in this photo :lol:
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And other news:
Michael Jackson death hearing getting ugly - suicide, syringes talk
December 29th, 2010 8:14 pm ET.
One man's life hangs in the balance and one has already been lost in the Michael Jackson death case. Dr. Conrad Murray's upcoming court hearing is making headline news today and it includes talk of Jackson having committed suicide, according to the Associated Press.
Michael Jackson's death rocked the world and brought out much angst and anger against the doctor alleged to have given him a fatal drug dose the last day of his life. And if Dr. Murray's defense does allege that the King of Pop entertainer Michael Jackson committed suicide, the passions will run even higher.
Suicide being posited alleges prosecutor
"I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself," said Deputy District Attorney David Walgren.
Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyer isn't saying anything of the sort at present, but what he is doing is attempting to obtain control of important evidence in the case.
Murray's lawyers fought with the prosecutor in a hearing today to gain control over the testing of two syringes found in the home bedroom of the deceased King of Pop singer on the day he died.
Crime scene syringes
Residue from the syringes have the potential to support or refute testimony about Michael Jackson by Dr. Murray, so the doctor's lawyer wants to be the one to have the syringes tested--not the prosecutor or law enforcement. But that flies in the face of law enforcement and judicial protocol, as you never give a potential guilty party access to any evidence.
The syringes in question were found at the alleged crime scene on the day Michael Jackson died.
Jackson's bedroom was considered a potential crime scene by law enforcement once his condition turned fatal at the hospital. Police were tasked with treating the bedroom as such, examining it for potential evidence.
Two syringes found in the bedroom--one on the floor, another in an intravenous medication bag---contain residue and one unidentified fingerprint.
Unidentified fingerprint and ridge count
In cop speak, an unidentifed fingerprint means the fingerprint is either A) illegible, B) not belonging to the victim or the accused, or C) not in AFIS (the Automated Fingerprint Identification System), which houses fingerprints of criminals, as well as federal and civil employees, or D) the latent fingerprint removed doesn't have enough ridge counts to enable AFIS processing or accurate identification by other means.
Either way, no one standing accused of murder--nor the accused's lawyer--should ever be given access to potential evidence that could exonerate or condemn them by a jury.
Suicide talk pointless even as a defense
Michael Jackson's family has already endured a tulmutous period due to his death, so Dr. Conrad Murray's defense should not attempt to save their clien't life at the expense of truth.
Painting an erroneous picture of a suicidal Jackson--if that is not a fact (and can be proven) when the court hearing takes place on Jan. 4. 2011, would be highly unwise by the defense.
It would be better to fall upon the mercy of the court at this point than risk the ire of justice, the Jackson clan and Michael's fans all in one fell swoop.
And suicide would be about the most impossible defense to prove in this case, anyway, as Michael Jackson was not only at the top of his game after a very long sojourn; he didn't bring the drugs into the house--his doctor did.
Michael Jackson was in the room with a doctor giving him a drug. He wasn't responsible for his death--even if Dr. Murray stepped away for a moment--as Conrad Murray was the physician present and physicians don't leave patients under medication alone to self medicate more. It is called a dereliction of duty or malpractice.
Reference: The Associated Press
http://www.examiner.com/criminal-profil ... inges-talk (http://www.examiner.com/criminal-profiles-in-national/michael-jackson-death-hearing-getting-ugly-suicide-syringes-talk)
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This is the defence story previously published by TMZ...
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
4/5/2010 4:15 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/05/0326_michael_jackson_ex.jpg)
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, but the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
More Michael Jackson
* Dr. Murray: Why Apologize? I Did Nothing Wrong
* Conrad Murray -- I Tried Saving Michael Jackson
* Michael Jackson Coroner Report - House of Drugs
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-death-cause-iv-addict-overdose-heart-legal-defense/
TMZ seem to have now added a POLL to this page currently standing at 58% BS reading. click this link to see current POLL ad VOTE http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... a_jGyn8URQ (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=af&tl=en&u=http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-death-cause-iv-addict-overdose-heart-legal-defense/&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&anno=2&usg=ALkJrhgOQS8PsuFVozL4IIspa_jGyn8URQ) :oops: SORRY IT WONT COPY THE VOTE BOX
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it seems like up until last night all of the information about the case has been coming from tabloidish sources. wasn't there a statement made on the one informer vid about paying attention to upcoming news from the non-tabloid news outlets. this particular aspect of the whole deal was reported on regular news last night. just mentioning it .
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So has Murray been building his alibi from day one to point the finger at Michael? :? If he "allegedly" gave him only 25 mg of profofol which has been reported to not really put you under, was this the "alleged" loophole that was the lead in to MJ injecting himself? The scenario being that Murray "conveniently" leaves MJ unattended but only after having given him less than the needed amount to put him out. In essence MJ is still awake though not fully and needing more. Murray is again "conveniently" off his job and not aware of MJ's needs, therefore MJ decides to take matters into his own hands? It sounds ridiculous to me, but as we know as long as one juror can be convinced it isn't, it's all relevant. But will a judge fall for this crap?
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Beyond the fact that we on this site aren't falling for the okey doke there is one other REAL advantage to this strategy which is brilliant actually (on Michael's part); by using the MJ killed himself theory, it bridges the gap between the fans. Believers and hoaxers alike would be completely outraged on a defense having MJ injecting himself w/propofol. What ever the differences, the hate would be put on hold for this. We would once again stand toe to toe and fight for Michael Jackson, our hero. After that, how could they be angered at MJ for hoaxing his death. Once forced to see exactly what Michael was up against, the bias, the threats, etc. they would have to soften their hearts and come around to accepting that what Michael did was done for his safety and possibly world peace. MJsArmyofLove reinstated.
Their beef with believers is that they feel we are ignoring that Murray killed MJ. If the trial does not represent that, then they will be more outraged at them forcing them to pay more attention to the details. In so doing, they will have to come around to see what is the truth. It's more than what meets the eye. Gotta put your heart aside and use your mind. This is bigger than all of us.
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Twiggy from MJHOAXLIVE, said she has talked to witnesses that saw Murray running from carolwood dve on the 25th June 2009.
I am in a rush, but just check her website..
Linda from StarMaps, also believes Michael is alive......and she should know.
Exactly. News was announcing police is looking for MJ's personal doctor who disappeared. But Katherine Jackson told Oprah at the hospital she was waiting for hours to someone to come out and tell her what going on with MJ and finally doctor Murrey was the one who came out and told her Michael is gone. ;) Who's Linda from Starmaps? Link please
Linda from starmaps is the lady who sold Starmaps of the beverly hills area right at the corner of carolwood drive/sunset boulevard,next to MJs house.Last time I saw her was in Sept.09, she was not selling her maps any more at that corner Febr.10 and June/July10. She was seen very upset as the ambulance drove away and the Startours lady was speaking to her tourists in the van, remember? As I was
there in Sept.09, I talked to Linda and she made the impression to me of being a good actress so I don`t
know how serious I can take her.She said she is sure MJ is dead as I was bringing the subject up ,"there were people crying out there" and she also said that MJ came out to talk to her one day and to sign a map, she said he was so sweet.She also mentioned many strange people entering that house the past few days/weeks before he died. So anyway, I am wondering where Linda is stating he is alive.Any link available?
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Beyond the fact that we on this site aren't falling for the okey doke there is one other REAL advantage to this strategy which is brilliant actually (on Michael's part); by using the MJ killed himself theory, it bridges the gap between the fans. Believers and hoaxers alike would be completely outraged on a defense having MJ injecting himself w/propofol. What ever the differences, the hate would be put on hold for this. We would once again stand toe to toe and fight for Michael Jackson, our hero. After that, how could they be angered at MJ for hoaxing his death. Once forced to see exactly what Michael was up against, the bias, the threats, etc. they would have to soften their hearts and come around to accepting that what Michael did was done for his safety and possibly world peace. MJsArmyofLove reinstated.
Their beef with believers is that they feel we are ignoring that Murray killed MJ. If the trial does not represent that, then they will be more outraged at them forcing them to pay more attention to the details. In so doing, they will have to come around to see what is the truth. It's more than what meets the eye. Gotta put your heart aside and use your mind. This is bigger than all of us.
I was thinking of that as well, but you put it into words so greatly, thank you! The thing with the syringes as a possibility of proof that MJ did put the amount of propofol into his body himself is absolutely BS, from a medical point of view as well as from a logical perspective (after all the posts about this I think I don`t need to explain myself,do I?).
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I copied two paragraphs, the first one is from the article this thread starts with, the second one is the last paragraph of the TMZ article from April.I am trying to take this whole thing by the word and for serious during 5 minutes of time in order to get out of the hoaxthinking.Just to check whether I come to any other conclusion. Luckily, I don`t :D
First:
Prosecutors have refused to agree to a testing plan. "We don't think it is relevant," prosecutor David Walgren said during a Dec. 16 meeting, according to a transcript.
Court transcripts obtained by the AP show that Murray's defense attorneys, prosecutors and Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor have spoken in chambers three times about the syringes and testing.
Second:
Michael Jackson was in the room with a doctor giving him a drug. He wasn't responsible for his death--even if Dr. Murray stepped away for a moment--as Conrad Murray was the physician present and physicians don't leave patients under medication alone to self medicate more. It is called a dereliction of duty or malpractice.
So whatever;Murray is always guilty and the attorneys know that too well, they know the selfkilling possibility cannot hold stand in a juristical sense, which is being confirmed by the prosecutor who thinks the testingresults are not relevant. But it can hold stand very well for the purpose of triggering the thought that Michael has the choreography of the staging of his own death in his very own hands, IMO of course ;)
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Sorry, have to correct myself; second one is not TMZ,but:
Reference: The Associated Press
http://www.examiner.com/criminal-profil (http://www.examiner.com/criminal-profil) ... inges-talk
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Could anybody play them better?
MIchael is feeding them the usual story for a "strange" death.
Usually it's a "natural" cause or it's a self-induced accident.
Sometimes a suicide, sometimes a riot, sometimes a thief, sometimes a neighbourhood shooting. In this case it's not a Baretta, it's syringes, perfectly fitting into the wheelchair skinny not eating and scared to death image of the gone-crazy nut that had nothing better to do than take an overdose out of a frustration rage attack.
That's standard Hollywood repertoire - everybody nodding and more or less all news agencies spreading this (as usual) as being the truth. Where there usually is a second layer in the story, we find at least 7 layers of different meanings in Michael's "case". Just that the majority of media and journalists don't catch them and report copy-paste as usual. I wonder when they lost their glasses (and more) to the $$$.
But there's hope. Some few people in the media stand out and I do hope that some of these precious diamonds are to be found in justice, authorities and politics as well.
Still don't know why Mr. Murray can change colour, height, weight... But so could Michael, hmmm.
Michael is fighting them back with and within their own system and his snowball is causing an avalanche. He had enough sleepless nights to study them in-depth I guess.
Go Michael! Go!
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I cannot get onto TMZ.
It says: Due to laws within your region, you are unable to view content for this website.
:o :shock:
Im in UK. Ive never had this before. Am i the only one????
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I guess you hit the nail, Grace! As hesouttamylife reacted in another thread; we`re going Hollywood Tonight 8-)
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I cannot get onto TMZ.
It says: Due to laws within your region, you are unable to view content for this website.
:o :shock:
Im in UK. Ive never had this before. Am i the only one????
There are more members from UK having this problem, some only temporary!
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D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
15 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/12/29/1229-mj-bn-tmz-02.jpg)
L.A. County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
More Michael Jackson
* Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
* Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses
* Evidence of Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death
http://www.tmz.com/2010/12/29/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murrary-killed-himself-propofol-overdose-od-manslaughter-case-prosecutor/
Having Murray and the prosecutor pointing to MJ having 'killed' himself speaks SOOOOOO PRO hoax. Of course, MJ's responsible for his own (hoax-)death - because he planned it. This is another step towards his return. The court story IMHO is just a necessairy side story to accompany the main story. The circle closes nicely. With MJ having 'killed himself' Murray will soon be a free man (as he already has been all these months ...). He's not done anything and nobody died. Very nice conclusion.
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What stands out for me is also the title because it clearly implies that the D.A. is ok with Murray's theory "Michael killed himself". I mean that it more than just implies it, it clearly says that the D.A. acknowledges the defense ... and when you read the article you understand that it's not really that, the D.A. just says "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
So TMZ is telling us that the D.A. is in on it too because we know what "killed himself" really means ...
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What stands out for me is also the title because it clearly implies that the D.A. is ok with Murray's theory "Michael killed himself". I mean that it more than just implies it, it clearly says that the D.A. acknowledges the defense ... and when you read the article you understand that it's not really that, the D.A. just says "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
So TMZ is telling us that the D.A. is in on it too because we know what "killed himself" really means ...
The term "acknowledges the defence" just means that they understand that this is the defence that Murray will present.
It doesnt mean the DA are "ok with it" - and its immaterial whether they are "ok with it" or not... it will be up to a jury to decide at the end of the trial. The sentence merely means that the DA accept and understand that this is the route Murray will take.
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What stands out for me is also the title because it clearly implies that the D.A. is ok with Murray's theory "Michael killed himself". I mean that it more than just implies it, it clearly says that the D.A. acknowledges the defense ... and when you read the article you understand that it's not really that, the D.A. just says "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
So TMZ is telling us that the D.A. is in on it too because we know what "killed himself" really means ...
The term "acknowledges the defence" just means that they understand that this is the defence that Murray will present.
It doesnt mean the DA are "ok with it" - and its immaterial whether they are "ok with it" or not... it will be up to a jury to decide at the end of the trial. The sentence merely means that the DA accept and understand that this is the route Murray will take.
Okay I certainly understood what I wanted to :lol:
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I cannot get onto TMZ.
It says: Due to laws within your region, you are unable to view content for this website.
:o :shock:
Im in UK. Ive never had this before. Am i the only one????
Nope, this has been happening for a while now, there is a thread about it under TMZ but if you use this link http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... om/&anno=2 (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=af&tl=en&u=http://www.tmz.com/&anno=2) it gets around the problem. Im in the UK also and use this link regularly with no problem ;)
:D
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I wrote this in the wrong thread so I'll paste it here:
Another TS connection to TMZ's Michael stories today.
There have been 3 stories (so far) today. Here are the times:
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
12/29/2010 12:40 AM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+4= 7
MJ Estate: Discovery Channel Is 'Debased, Sick'
12/29/2010 12:22 PM PST by TMZ Staff 1+2+2+2= 7
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 3+4 = 7
Triple Seven.
:lol: :lol: :lol: AWESOME :lol: :lol: :lol:
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raphaelleanique wrote:
I guess you hit the nail, Grace! As hesouttamylife reacted in another thread; we`re going Hollywood Tonight
I also agree that
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Did anyone really expect anything different? It's kind of a no brainer ya know?
Hell, any one of us could have predicted and decided the results.
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@bec, thanks for the reply sweetie, I didn't say that the family are supporting the kidnappers, they are threatened by the bad guys using Michael and the kids, you can't risk you're own people, that's why Michael showed the kids right before the incident, from the family i believe that jermaine is involved he has the motive to do so, and out of all the brothers he was the one that thinks that he is the next MJ or something, dressing like him, acting like him,,,,etc, i just don't have a proof against except what the hell was he doing in the hospital with tohme and dileo, tohme the guy who Michael fired and feared and the one who signed this contract to trap him, and that jermaine was the one who introduced tohme to Michael in the first place, it's just like the 2005 trial, before the trial his so called friend, uri geller introduced Michael to bashir and right after the trial was up, this time his brother introduced him to tohme and right after, Michael is gone, they always wanted him out of the way and this time they did it.
The family is threatened, and it's obvious in many things, like when Kathrine filed a lawsuit against AEG and soon after the great tmz had an article against her telling her to stop, the same with Joe whenever he does anything they remind the fans on how bad he treated Michael, to make him lose credibility, when he filed the lawsuit against branca and co, they said it was for money, and i read the entire court documents papers and there was no money mentioned what so ever, it was all evidence against branca and co, no money asked what so ever, they are discrediting him, and many other examples.
Like you said it was allegedly reported that the photo was picked by Kathrine, how do we know that, after all the staples center and all of that belongs to AEG, this fact alone should make you wonder, when you are threatened there is no much you can do, especially when there is no one you can turn too, i have found evidence that the DA and the general attorney has took money from AEG and branca's office shortly before the incident, and that's no coincidence, the whole thing is corrupt, the court granting branca the thief a green card to do whatever he wants and pleases without getting back to them, no one is watching so do whatever you want. There are too many things that point to the direction am talking about, we are being played at big time, and it's a huge cover up, nothing more nothing less, i have been investigating this for a year and half now, looking at the legal and real stuff now, not what tmz and informers and so on giving to us. I posted most of the findings on a link here, i will post it and i would like to know what you think after you read it, i could post it on the forum, but it's too long, that's why i give the link. http://unitedformichael.weebly.com/
Happy New Year, have a nice day, love and peace
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D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
15 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/12/29/1229-mj-bn-tmz-02.jpg)
L.A. County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
what is with this picture of michael . looks like some kind of growth on the side of his nose. i noticed something like this in the video where he supposed to be sitting in the audience and watching the others perform. have i just lost it or has anyone else noticed stuff like this appearing in photo's from time to time? sort of like the changes in murry someone was refering to earlier.
Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
More Michael Jackson
* Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
* Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses
* Evidence of Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death
http://www.tmz.com/2010/12/29/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murrary-killed-himself-propofol-overdose-od-manslaughter-case-prosecutor/
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nothing but love, I respect your dedication to your research but your theory doesn't consider that many family members (Joe, Katherine, Jermaine, LaToya, Randy, Janet) have spoken openly about how MJ was manipulated, controlled, surrounded by bad people, about a vast conspiracy again him, with many players, not just Murray/more then just Murray, to steal his catalog, and it's all going to come out, and it's just like a magic trick, and we will fight for justice and truth to prevail. This would indicate that at the same time the family is playing along with the kidnappers/murders to protect themselves and other family members by perpetuating a fake death hoax, they are also openly speaking to the media about the kidnappers/murders who allegedly conspired against MJ resulting in his death, and that is contradictory. It doesn't add it when you consider all of the information.
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nothing but love, I respect your dedication to your research but your theory doesn't consider that many family members (Joe, Katherine, Jermaine, LaToya, Randy, Janet) have spoken openly about how MJ was manipulated, controlled, surrounded by bad people, about a vast conspiracy again him, with many players, not just Murray/more then just Murray, to steal his catalog, and it's all going to come out, and it's just like a magic trick, and we will fight for justice and truth to prevail. This would indicate that at the same time the family is playing along with the kidnappers/murders to protect themselves and other family members by perpetuating a fake death hoax, they are also openly speaking to the media about the kidnappers/murders who allegedly conspired against MJ resulting in his death, and that is contradictory. It doesn't add it when you consider all of the information.
Exactly. In other words: it doesnt make sense.
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nothing but love, I respect your dedication to your research but your theory doesn't consider that many family members (Joe, Katherine, Jermaine, LaToya, Randy, Janet) have spoken openly about how MJ was manipulated, controlled, surrounded by bad people, about a vast conspiracy again him, with many players, not just Murray/more then just Murray, to steal his catalog, and it's all going to come out, and it's just like a magic trick, and we will fight for justice and truth to prevail. This would indicate that at the same time the family is playing along with the kidnappers/murders to protect themselves and other family members by perpetuating a fake death hoax, they are also openly speaking to the media about the kidnappers/murders who allegedly conspired against MJ resulting in his death, and that is contradictory. It doesn't add it when you consider all of the information.
Exactly. In other words: it doesnt make sense.
Agree!
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@bec: Yes they spoke about conspiracy, did they give any details? or they appear to the people and even the media as nut cases, speaking about people wanting his catalogue isn't new news to the people or those who knows Michael Jackson (fans), so what they said isn't new and of no danger at all on the bad guys, they didn't give any details, they are just speaking general words.
The problem is i can't base my opinion or facts on just the family reactions and how they behave, first because we don't have all the answers and we don't know them or what is going on with them behind close doors, it's not something to base your view of the case on, the police don't do that when they deal with real cases. All the documents, the timeline, the medical facts, court papers, motives,,,,,etc, point towards murder or taken against his will, if you checked my site, you're gonna see that i made a review of the documents Joe provided, the contracts, the money that was taken by the DA and GA, the testimony of Dr.Richelle Cooper the head of the ER department on that,,,,etc all of this can't be ignored because of how the family reacts.
Another thing is Michael really that stupid to do hoax based on drug OD, he knows how the public will react and what they will accuse him, this will affect his kids and his reputation till the end of times, does Michael really need a hoax to comeback! and when and if he comes back according to a hoax perspective, will the people love him more, or crucify him more and hate him more, and am not talking about the fans, am talking about the public and the media, when someone makes a hoax he does it for serious reasons, because he is threatened or there is a danger to his life, normal people do hoaxed everyday better than this one, and he won't care to send clues or whatever for the fans, if he is in danger he will think more about his safety and his kids, making a hoax for a comeback for over a year, is not a smart move and MJ doesn't need that, when the concerts where announced, the tickets were sold out on spot, that is MJ and he doesn't need to die to return, no good will come of this at all.
I have been looking at all of this for a long time, legal papers and his history and everything leads to a danger situation. It's not because it's my research or whatever, i don't care, but i have to say what i saw in the leads to this case, i wish am wrong, but with all the stuff, and after rowe's book, and reading the history for sony and all of that, everything points to a danger situation, it's not about me, it's about him, i don't care about me at all.
Take care sweetie, and have a nice day love and peace.
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... he doesn't need to die to return[/b], no good will come of this at all.
Who says Michael has to die to return?
Who says Michael will return?
No good will come of this at all?
You think Michael was kidnapped for $$$ and in order to make him sign disadvantageous contracts to hand his fortune over to some evil minds?
I would imagine, this deal would only take 4 weeks to 4 months in a South American djungle camp and then his body would be left to the jaguar. As the big finance bosses usually join in a sauna or golf green a.s.o., handing the coerced signitures over would not even require a postage stamp. NO cover-up would be needed AT ALL.
Would we - in such a capture case - find his kids being bored? (You may argue they got drugged as well, ok.)
Friends chitchat laughing? (They got drugged as well, ok.)
Informers trying to ease fans' distress? (They got not only drugged but also paid, ok.)
Coinkidances in almost every movie, leakage, song thus whenever Michael himself is expressing himself? (He was drugged as well or somebody knew him and his fans so well that he knew what to plant how as a cover-up that it was recognizable in a certain context that only folks following MJ for a while would realize and thus would be silenced or diverted, ok.)
Sorry, with all due respect, I don't buy into this theory at all.
The papers that are accessible to us have been planted on purpose like those paralleling law suits. This goes into the V theme.
Michael has invested his $$$ in such a way that it CANNOT be touched.
This I believe from observing the rare leakages about his business deals.
Michael is a professional and not a victim.
If I ever would have been burned, then disgraced to my bones and beyond, I would not have been sitting around getting drugged and waiting for any leaching cockroach of the world to go after my hardly earned bucks. Never. Plus certainly not after planning for a family. NO way.
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@Grace, First happy new year! let's be calm while discussing things, you don't have to buy anything in anyone says, and the same goes for me.
I didn't say that the friends and family and kids and whatever you mentioned were drugged, that is really belittling what i have been saying big time, what do these have to do with him being in danger or whatever, should the whole world know that he is kidnapped. That's mocking, i won't expect that COURT PAPERS would be fake, as this is a big trouble and problem, at least these won't be fake. The TIMELINE is not fake as well.
Who said that he needs to die to comeback, the hoax idea said it! what most believes in is this, he died to comeback, does this add up on any level!
They took him, they will need him as long as they need his creative work and the stuff that he only knows where they are, and no one else knows but him. Please read what i have mentioned without being that angry and we can discuss peacefully. And who said that when someone is taken against his will means that he is weak and stupid, It's an ACCIDENT, it's against your will, there is nothing you can do about it. I know he is not weak and he is very smart, but when you are all alone there is not much that you can do, when they are everywhere. Michael is not stupid either to hide for sending clues, playing games and a comeback or doing a v theme or whatever. What good if any and what's the point of all of this.
I am gonna leave you the links to the findings, and i am gonna quote a post i have replied with before. Please take the time to read them and then we can discuss, rather than accusing me or being angry at something like that. At the end of the day, no bad feelings, everyone is entitled to their thinking, but after you check and see everything, like i do, and i never got angry or mocked anyone even with the most wicked theories out there.
The links:
http://unitedformichael.weebly.com/
http://realitycheck1.weebly.com/
The post:
@ignisaeternus: Hi, thanks and have a great year. I will try to answer the questions as much as i can because after all i don't have all the answers, but I am really glad to see your post. I'll keep referring you to the sites because this is too long am just mentioning the main points and i have already wrote too much as you can see.
-Why would they take him?
--Why did they try to put him in jail in 2005, they always wanted him out of the way, because he won't do anything they want. and to add to your question why now?, that is since i don't believe in coincidences at all, when you look at the timeline, Michael's contract with sony was due to end July 2009, and he was gonna leave them once and for all, and he was gonna have 100% of his royalties back in 2011, i have explained this in details. The incident happened in the 25th of June, 2009. Could this be a coincidence? I don't think so, that's a red flag to be raised. Why was he working on a new album to be released only at the time that he was leaving sony? That's right, because he was finally gonna be a free agent and work away from them, if he wanted to work with them again, he would have done so years before, but he didn't, he was working privately, until the time that his contract was gonna end and then worked professionally to prepare the album for release, except that it was away from sony, in a private studio, even Will.i.am said that they finished the album and that Michael have it and no one, not even him has a copy or know where it is. When Michael leaves sony what will happen to them? They will loose the millions of dollars they make on his expense every year, and they will lose almost the only artist who sells in the age of the internet and piracy. According to an economic article, MJ saved sony music department from losses, you guessed it (after his d****), saying that without that, they would have continued to lose in the music section.
So, why would they keep him, they just wanted him out of the way, so they could control his stuff, but they still need him for the creative work, for the music stuff, because no one could do it like him, and we all saw the last album and how it had the vocals of someone else, and most of the fans am included, would have preferred the release of raw demos, rather than this. As long as Michael is not co-operating they still need him, because when they are done with him, he is out. He is the only one who knows where most of his unreleased work and plans, he is the only one who can get them out MJ style and no one else can do that. They wanted him to be under their control and do what they pleases like the other artists, but we all know that is not possible with MJ, he stopped working for years just because he doesn't want to work with them.
-Do you think the family knows?
-- Sure, they do, that's why Kathrine suddenly stopped speaking about a third autopsy and stopped doubting it, that's why Joe's name is dragged through mud every time he speaks, that's why he said (ask those who know!, i don't know as the people who know,,,when i know am gonna tell you) when larry asked him about where is Michael's body is, he should have said ask the FAMILY, since they were the ones doing everything while joe was away, but instead he said ask the people who know, not the family, at the time it didn't make any sense, and all of the fans thought it's hoax related, but it didn't add up with me, until i watched it again and looked at his body language, just looks how angry and serious he gets when asked that question, he stared at larry as a sign to stop pushing the matter forward, see it again. That's why all of a sudden they stopped talking a lot about conspiracy and so, including Latoya who was all over the place, now the best they could say is that murray was fall guy and the most they can do is accuse AEG and they know that is a lose situation. The only one who really thinks that he is the next MJ is jermaine and i already have my doubts about him, because just like in 2005 when geller introduced bashit to Michael and afterwards the trial started, this time in 2009 his brother introduced him to tohme and afterwards Michael was gone, and i am not gonna be convinced that jermaine didn't know tohme before introducing him, just like am not gonna be convinced that geller didn't know bashit before introducing him, illogical, and many other things, i have explained a lot in the site.
-Your question about the autopsy:
-- There is part of the truth in it and that is the IV drug levels for one reason only, when you are doing something like that, they sure have the coroner working with them but they can't have the entire stuff in on it, there are very few people involved, what happened is that the stuff went to the house (and not all of them like i said know), they went there, collected whatever they found and included in a report on the 26th (the report was written on that day, so they must have been in the house on the day of the incident the 25th), murray is not stupid (in other words the people who are operating him) he planted the rest of the drugs and bottles so it could appear as if Michael was using drugs like crazy. The same thing happened in the hospital, according to the paramedics report, murray called someone (an official) in UCLA right before they left, but again you can buy one person but you can't buy the entire hospital, so they took him there and the Head of the Emergency department was there with the responsible doctor and staff and according to her timeline (you can see it in the link, under the summary of what really happened to MJ, http://realitycheck1.weebly.com/), Michael was doing fine, when you take anesthesia, it's normal that your HR would be below the normal and your breathing would be barely and hardly noticed that's why they have to put something to monitor the breathing, Michael's HR was fifty something according to her and he was breathing fine through the balloon, suddenly he was pronounced doesn't make sense, it's normal that they would take blood samples and so on for testing, so what we have is his blood test results, because remember Michael doesn't drink and don't do drugs and his sample was clean, no levels of alcohol or any other drugs but the IV ones. The doctor there can't tell the staff don't take the samples or do normal procedures they would be busted big time, they can control what's gonna be in the report, and how it's gonna look like, so they could mix the truth with the lies, look at his forehead in the ambulance photo, there is an obvious frown on his face, and that could make sense if he was resisting them, and that's why they used these drugs. If he wants to run away, there is no need for all of this mess, it could have been an accident and we're done here, the fact that he was knocked out using heavy anesthesia, the alarm at the hospital went off as soon as the family saw him and he was on the plane and of he goes and no one knows where the hell was he taken, speaks volumes, again check the site for more details on the autopsy.
-Why would the make a hoax for small people?
--because they need to cover up their tracks, and it's always the minority that matters, the general public takes whatever they hear on the tv even if doesn't make sense, they take it and that's it, it's the minority that matters, because they dig and search and look for the truth, and they could be the ones uncovering them, so when they keep us busy for a hoax waiting for him to comeback and looking for the clues and so, we won't look for the truth and we won't follow real evidence we will keep looking at fake stuff. And after years when he won't come back, the fans would say he just want to be left alone but we know he is alright and everyone would be happy but him. I'll give you an example, a hollywood producer who was working on the movie scream, she said we used to set up forums and put fake theories on them so that the fans won't UNCOVER what's gonna happen in the next part, it was a method of DISTRACTION and it succeeded according to her, now the same question Why would a producer care about the minority of fans of the movie (you won't expect that all the people were online discussing the movie, only few)?
she answered it: SO THEY WON'T UNCOVER WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, DISTRACTION. The same is happening here, if they can do this with a movie or whatever, it's better used as murder or a kidnap cover up. Why don't you ask the same question: why would Michael care about a small number of fans to give him clues when he has to focus on himself if he is in danger and hiding? the logical answer is that he won't bother, when i am hiding for serious reasons i AM HIDING period, no trail, nothing that could endanger me or my life, and him hiding for a movie or a comeback, seriously for almost 2 years now, doesn't add up, he would be crucified for this and he is not stupid and he doesn't need that.
The minority matters more than the majority, because these are the thinkers, just let them in the wrong direction and they will complete and keep going on in circles forever. And they would allow everything to pass, even the autopsy documentary of discovery, and a fake album to be released under his name, just because they are looking for "CLUES", let's keep them busy while we are doing our work, stealing.
Again considering the drugs and the autopsy, i am a pharmacist and i sat with an anesthesiologist, and we calculated the dosage and everything, it's a perfect dosage for him, they are not high or anything, this am 100% sure about, he could even take up to 50 mls more and it won't be danger to him, and what the doctor said was IS HE SUPPOSED TO HAVE DIED FROM THIS? i told him yes, he nodded and said it doesn't make sense, because it's a perfect anesthesia cocktail that is being used in operations, and it's being given to him, the autopsy report has the truth mixed up and hidden with the rest of crap mentioned there, you just should be able to find it, and that is like i said you can't bribe the whole stuff to be on a conspiracy, so the things that were collected are true, the blood tests are true, just the comments and the other drugs which are not IV are false. To hide them, murray planted many boxes of even the IV drugs themselves and other pills and so on, because that's the best they could do when the people who are gonna collect the stuff come, because they can't tell the entire medical community, we have kidnapped him and you need to play along, you see what i mean.
I hope i answered your questions and if you want to discuss anything further please do, after all we want the truth, nothing more and nothing less. I kept referring you to the sites, because as you can see, i already wrote too much in this post, and it's really just main points i gave you, and it's that long, so you can read more details of you like on the sites and i'll be more than glad to answer anything and discuss anything further.
http://realitycheck1.weebly.com/
http://unitedformichael.weebly.com/
Take care sweetie and have a nice day, love and peace
Take care and have a nice day, love and peace
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What I have been able to deduct from this is that yes, Murray injected Michael with the drug purposely with Michael's approval as a decoy. Yes paramedics were called in. Yes Michael went to the hospital as did Murray. Murray got to the top hospital officials and then his role took flight as did he. Yes Michael is and was alive. However, the plot to kill him once revealed went into danger mode and the hospital staff had to work with him and his "people" to get him into safety. Here enters the "code of silence" which has proven bullet proof. The only way to do this was to distract the media and the public long enough to get him into safe keeping. The ONLY way in the world to divert anybody from the fact that MJ was in that hospital would be to announce publicly that he had died. (Enters Jermaine's main role). All the attention is now totally diverted as the world is in a universal state of shock. The media is now scrambling for "firsts" and looking back for clues. The public is no longer hoping and watching for signs of Michael's condition improving, our diversion. The planet is insane with grief and disbelief and shock, and thus the perfect time for Michael to be moved with the help of who ever is needed, legal, political, official. To ensure things moved smoothly and attention diverted long enough a murder suspect had to become the target of the world's attention. HOWEVER, as Michael told us in this is it, piece by piece the mystery will unravel. And so it has now started to unravel, and the world is beginning to see all the inconsistencies as the real truth unfolds right before our eyes. And as intricate as it is, it all makes sense. It was orchestrated perfectly. So many clues were missed initially, as planned. Now we are searching back for what we missed to try and strategize when things changed hands. We know now as it has become more and more evident that the silence, and all of what has happened since June 25th is surely for Michael's safety. That's why the silence hasn't been broken. There is too much at stake to risk loose lips. That's what I get from this.
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NBL, I am wishing you a happy new year as well.
I am not angry nor irritated by your posts. I just don't agree with your conclusion. That's not terrible btw. I appreciate you opening your concerns and your intense research.
In general, any investigation must consider means, motive and opportunity when looking at any (potential) evidence.
The first evidence in this scenery was that no evidence was collected as in any "regular" case.
We were presented media material only. No police show up, no official statement, nothing.
Jermaine doing the statement replacing hospital officials because he was threatened?
The family cooperating with evil individuals at that moment already? The tapes and the doc getting lost? The family allowed to clean the house truckwise during 3 days before any police went in? All due to threats and evil minds? Hmmm.
Those other cases that were giving "unclear" or even "mysterious" causes of death worked out completely different. They are NOT feeding the public every day with the name of the deceased to not get forgotten.
Why would a cover-up need permanent repetition and on-going mocking of the case?
A cover-up slips into silence because that's the aim of a cover-up: to spread a cover.
So why would a cover-up repeat again and again (and even recess up to complete idiotism) the weird circumstances of the "passing" of Michael Joseph Jackson? To feed evil-minded brainwash into the world's consciousness that MJ not only died of a drug overdose but also killed himself and that he was not only the worst criminal but also had a complete weirdo, sick mind and in the end deserved his fate due to his wrong-doing all the time?
(I am overly pointing out the logic - it is not that I am supporting this or insinuating in any way that you, NBL, said so. It is important to understand that I am following a path that has not been stated but which would be a logic consequence of what some of the media have fed us up to today - I may be wrong in that logic as well, LOL, don't beat me, thanks...)
What did we get as informations via media? In addition to media material we were presented some documents as "proof" (like the proof picture of the picture (proof of the infamous ambulance photo shooting)). Well, the documents would be carrying wrong outdated stamps, dates, signitures, would be blacked out, left blank at sensitive areas, signed by the family instead of authorities, signed at dates when the signing individual was obviously not present, filled out on wrong outdated form sheets etc. etc. Hmmm.
I do indeed consider some documents to be faked for some reasons, yes, even court-relevant documents could be faked. It happens all over the world every day that paper is not worth the ink on it. We were presented invented stories all the way down to today. We were presented twisted statements, even "live" court videos showed more questionable material than reliable one.
How could fake find its way into a precious justice system? Any system is only as strong as its weakest element - which is the single human being. Banana republics? Yes, they do exist everywhere. Small ones and big ones. Hidden or in the public eye.
We could then come down to other evidence which is interviews, film, TV appearances, print, whatever we were confronted with which is not hear-say nor interpretation of some intermediate human being. There you saw a happy, smiling family (even at memorial), happy friends, friends unexpectedly stabbing him into his back as soon as he was not "present" anymore, official statements, reps, lawyers and God knows who else found himself qualified to speak for and on behalf of somebody else as to Michael Joseph Jackson.
After all that whoopla we can conclude the only reliable material would be coming from Michael Jackson himself. His songs, his music, his films, his videos, his director's passion and specific way of pointing things out, his art, his notes, his interviews, his signitures. We found a lot of this material to be questionable too - due to the controversy that was stirred on purpose. But in the end, ONLY Michael's personal statements and (left / leaked) materials will build a sound basis for any investigation.
Tired of injustice
Tired of the schemes
The lies are disgusting
So what does it mean
Kicking me down
I got to get up
As jacked as it sounds
The whole system sucks
[Scream Lyrics]
From what we were being served on silver, golden and platinum plates since June 25, there is no way to convince me that Michael was drugged down, captured against his will and is being held somewhere in order to abuse his talents, cash in on him or whatever any hostage reason should be.
Could anybody imagine he would return into lion's den without any well-done preparation, especially while being accompanied by his children? Did anybody else unveil the kids or was it their father himself?
I tend to not overestimate Hollywood and affiliates (as to means, motive and opportunity).
I tend to not underestimate Michael Jackson (as to means, motive and opportunity).
Sending out a smile or 2 on this New Year's Day hoping for many occasions for laughter and joy in 2011:
I will tell you everything. They have Michael Jackson, but I don't know them, I just know he is here with me safe and sound but in danger. He will comeback but I can't talk to him, but he will or maybe he won't. He can change his mind if he wants to, but he will probably be back. He will make his return before 2728. Know this. I have proof but I can't prove it.
[credits to lovelidae]
Michael reads this Forum but has never been here.
He knows you are real fans that are not real fans.
He will comeback or maybe not.
And his email is You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login, but don't tell anyone.
[credits to annieisnotokey]
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pS7sKjlzwFg/SrwUa_bGMfI/AAAAAAAAD-4/ndppmfreq34/s400/tin-foil-cat.jpg)
Running undercover...
(http://critteristic.com/frontpageimages/cat-sniper.jpg)
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The first evidence in this scenery was that no evidence was collected as in any "regular" case.
We were presented media material only. No police show up, no official statement, nothing.
Jermaine doing the statement replacing hospital officials because he was threatened?
The family cooperating with evil individuals at that moment already? The tapes and the doc getting lost? The family allowed to clean the house truckwise during 3 days before any police went in? All due to threats and evil minds? Hmmm.
And still it is necessary to question the photo of the ambulance..