Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Contradictions and all stuff that doesn't add up => Topic started by: Integrity on January 07, 2011, 09:23:59 PM

Title: The EMT's did not recognize Michael
Post by: Integrity on January 07, 2011, 09:23:59 PM
I am shocked that the greatest and most popular entertainer in our life time was not recognized by the paramedics.  :shock:

SO THOUGH THE PARAMEDICS WORKED IN THE MOST WEALTHY AND CELEBRITY FILLED SIDE OF TOWN THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT WAS MICHAEL JACKSON HOME...

WHATEVER!!!!!!!! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
   
THEY DID NOT KNOW WHO HE WAS UNTIL SOMEONE MUMBLED HIS NAME!!  :shock:

THAN MAYBE IT WAS ONE OF HIS IMPERSONATORS THAT THEY KILLED AND MIKE DID ESCAPE...

PLEASE LET US THINK ABOUT ALL POSSIBILITIES....

Is it not procedure for the paramedics to ask the person's name and than ask what happened?

IF THE IGNORANT MR. MURRAY ASKED DOES ANYONE NO CPR WHY DIDN'T ONE OF THE BODYGUARDS TAKE OVER? ARE THEY NOT TRAINED FOR SUCH EMERGENCIES.

THE NANNY OR SOMEONE HAD TO KNOW HOW TO GIVE CPR BUT NO ONE TOOK CHARGE AND THEY ALL DID NOTHING.  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE CALL 911! WHEN THE BODYGAURD FIRST SAW MICHAEL WHY DID THEY NOT PICK HIM UP AND PUT HIM IN ONE OF THOSE LIMOS AND TAKE HIM TO EMERGENCY AT UCLA.

GUYS IT WAS ONLY 5 MINUTES AWAY... :shock:  :shock:

NO ACTION TO SAVE HIS LIFE WAS TAKEN BY ANYONE! THEY WERE ALL PASSIVE FROM WHAT HAS BEEN SHARED WITH US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :shock:

Please tell me WHY WOULD MICHAEL JACKSON NEED KENNY TO TELL HIM TO GO HOME!
THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON IF HE DOES NOT WANT TO REHEARSE OR IS TIRED ALL HE WOULD HAVE TO SAY IS I AM GOING HOME AND THAT IS THAT!!!

IF KENNY FELT HE WAS THAT ILL WHY DID HE NOT TAKE HIM TO THE HOSPITAL.

IF MIKE OR SOMEONE WAS DEAD WHEN PARAMEDICS ARRIVED AT  HOME THAN WHAT WERE THEY DOING AT THE HOSPITAL FOR ALL OF THAT TIME! :shock:  :shock:

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WHY WOULD A HOSPITAL ALLOW A DOCTOR WORK ON HIM WHEN HE WAS NOT APART OF THERE STAFF. HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM.  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

PLEASE HELP ME EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!

IF KENNY FELT HE WAS SO ILL WHY DID HE NOT TAKE HIM TO THE EMERGENCY HIMSELF...

I AM VERY SAD AND THIS STILL MAKES NO SINCE TO ME AT ALL:(

PEACE
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: Integrity on January 07, 2011, 09:47:48 PM
MURRY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO GIVE CPR! :shock:

MURRY ASKED BODYGUARD TO HIDE MEDICATIONS!

WHY DID THE BODYGUARD DO THIS? WAS HE WORKING FOR MIKE OR DR. EVIL MURRY?

WHY DID MURRY NOT TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT ALL OF THE DRUGS HE WAS GIVING MIKE
TO THE PARAMEDIC.

MURDER! MURDER! MURDER! HE SHOULD SPEND ALL OF HIS LIFE IN JAIL...

HE DID NOT HAVE CORRECT MEDICAL EQUIPMENT PRESENT AT MIKES HOME TO BE
ADMINISTERING SUCH POWERFUL DRUGS WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN A HOSPITAL...

HE DID NOT CALL 911 BECAUSE HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE WHOEVER THAT WAS, WAS TRULY DEAD AND HE HAD ACCOMPLISHED HIS MISSION WHICH HE WAS PAID MILLIONS FOR..

MURRY IS NOT A DOCTOR HE IS A HIRED HITMAN.. KILLER.. ECT....
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: Integrity on January 07, 2011, 10:02:29 PM
ANOTHER POINT IS IF HE WAS PALE AND COLD THAT DAY WHEN KENNY SENT HIM HOME
WHY DID HE NOT GO GET A CHECK UP..
MURRY WAS NOT A REGULAR DOCTOR HE WAS JUST A DRUG PUSHER...
HE SHOULD HAVE WENT TO UCLA OR A CLINIC WHERE HE COULD HAVE BEEN EXAMINED TO SEE WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HIM.
DID HE NOT HAVE ONE FRIEND WHO SAID LOOK EITHER YOU GO TO THE HOSPITL OR I AM GOING TO CALL 911.. I AM SERIOUS... NO LOVE!! NO CARE!!!
ONE OF MY FRIENDS CAME TO VISIT AND HE LOOKED VERY THIN AND WEAK AND WAS COUGHING... AND I ASKED HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD THAT COUGH AND HE SAID 3 MONTHS. I SAID WHAT!!! WHEN YOU GET BACK TO YOUR HOME TOWN I WANT YOU TO GO GET A COMPLETE CHECK UP.
WHEN I CALLED AND ASKED HIM WHAT THE DOCTOR SAID HE SAID HE DID NOT GO YET.
I WENT OFF AND SAID TO HIM IF YOU DO NOT GO ASAP YOU AR NOT MY FRIEND AND HUNG UP THE PHONE.. I WAS LIVID AND DONE:(
THAN HE CALLED ME THE NEXT DAY CRYING THANKING ME BECAUSE HE HAD RENAL CANCER IN HIS KIDNEYS AND IT WAS THE SIZE OF A TENNIS BALL.
MIKE HAD INSURANCE AND BIG MONEY SO GOING TO GET A CHECK UP IS NOTHING..
BUT WHO CARED ENOUGH TO SAY THATS IT LETS GO... NO ONE:(
I AM SO VERY SAD.... :cry:  
MAKES NO SINCE AT ALL....
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: scorpionchik on January 07, 2011, 10:59:34 PM
THEY DID NOT KNOW WHO HE WAS UNTIL SOMEONE MUMBLED HIS NAME!!  :shock:

THAN MAYBE IT WAS ONE OF HIS IMPERSONATORS THAT THEY KILLED AND MIKE DID ESCAPE...

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE CALL 911! WHEN THE BODYGAURD FIRST SAW MICHAEL WHY DID THEY NOT PICK HIM UP AND PUT HIM IN ONE OF THOSE LIMOS AND TAKE HIM TO EMERGENCY AT UCLA.

NO ACTION TO SAVE HIS LIFE WAS TAKEN BY ANYONE! THEY WERE ALL PASSIVE FROM WHAT HAS BEEN SHARED WITH US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :shock:

Darlin, you want help? Read the topic   viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17103 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17103)   then compare what you say above and you will realize WHY NO ONE CALLED 911 and PARAMEDICS DID NOT RECOGNIZE MICHAEL.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: neversaynever on January 07, 2011, 11:34:00 PM
No one recognized Michael... Yet in the infamous ambulance picture there was no way in hell no one knew who that was. So if they want us to believe that was Mike in the ambulance ( and we now know the pic is fake) ... are you going to tell me that the EMT's didn't know who he was? Who else looks like that???  Did he transform himself from a hospice patient to 80's Mike before leaving on the stretcher?  It's all so silly and evident. :roll:
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: bec on January 07, 2011, 11:44:55 PM
Quote from: "neversaynever"
No one recognized Michael... Yet in the infamous ambulance picture there was no way in hell no one knew who that was. So if they want us to believe that was Mike in the ambulance ( and we now know the pic is fake) ... are you going to tell me that the EMT's didn't know who he was? Who else looks like that???  Did he transform himself from a hospice patient to 80's Mike before leaving on the stretcher?  It's all so silly and evident. :roll:

And suddenly we all know why there HAD to be an ambulance photo.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: iLOVEMJBeLIEve on January 08, 2011, 12:17:24 AM
Quote from: "neversaynever"
No one recognized Michael... Yet in the infamous ambulance picture there was no way in hell no one knew who that was. So if they want us to believe that was Mike in the ambulance ( and we now know the pic is fake) ... are you going to tell me that the EMT's didn't know who he was? Who else looks like that???  Did he transform himself from a hospice patient to 80's Mike before leaving on the stretcher?  It's all so silly and evident. :roll:

And one thing that has been bothering me about this whole ambulance saga is why the court has not question any real photos. like why don't they question anybody or the person who took the pic (if they are even one of the witnesses) about the ambulance photo. they should have asked the EMT exactly how his skin looked like and his features at that time they carried him. the ambulance pic is so fake and no one from the court is picking on it? please tell me this is a hoax and that's why the story is so inconsistent and a circus because if not, then this is really really pathetic and the most saddest thing regarding to a celebrity death  :cry: . if this is not a hoax, everyone in the family and yes EVERYONE  should be ashamed of themselves with not giving a rat's ass, smiling, moving on as if nothing happened after his death, and chewing gum at his funeral etc. i hope this is a hoax. i really hope. i prayed to God that if Murray doesn't go to trial or he is not guilty, it is for the sake of the hoax and not because he is a murderer getting off free, which is what i fear. i hope God listened to my prayers because this is getting ridiculous!
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: 2good2btrue on January 08, 2011, 12:35:01 AM
Michael Jackson death hoax part deux....        
Written by Administrator    
Friday, 10 July 2009 06:06  
I wrote earlier how there are a couple of sites who are saying Michael Jackson faked his death....

well someone spent time describing in detail the Michael Jackson faked his death:

this guy calls himself: Illuminus Theo (click on 'describing' to go directly to his page). He claims (and wrote a long story about it) and Jackson faked his death and here are a few things he had to say from his site:


Jackson's "Death"
The night before Jackson's "death," he danced his heart out, almost literally (which underscored the impossibility of surviving the grueling schedule he'd announced to his public). He returned to his rented home, and was spirited away to a waiting jet at Burbank airport, which transported him to a location in the Southeastern U.S. that I dare not divulge (yet). But I must explain that the man who died of an alleged heart attack under the very hands of his personal physician (get real!) was not Jackson but a 47-year-old Romanian named Dimitrie Draghicescu, whom Illuminus Theo disgracefully dragged into this morbid affair.


Dimitrie Draghicescu--the Dead Jackson
After fully 3 years of plastic surgery and training, Dimitrie could easily pass for a live Jackson, not to mention a dead one. But unlike the mighty Michael, Dimitrie did die. Dimitrie, not Jackson, was the one whisked to the hospital. Did you not wonder why the man who phoned 911 did not say "Michael Jackson" was the victim? It was not to avoid publicity but to insure that, should the 911 calls be analyzed by voice experts and electronic analyzers, no one could detect the stress from the caller's blatant falsehood.

Dimitrie agreed to die in Michael's place only because he had a terminal illness, and because Jackson had promised a generous reward to his family. And had Dimitrie refused, our Order would have revealed the Draghicescu family secret that had brought them to the attention of Illuminus Theo in the late 1700s (we too are familiar with the gold carrot-iron stick argument).


click 'read more' to read the full article

I mean the man took a long time to write all of that, it is almost believeable. The one thing that I don't get is this:

The article was written on July 2nd, 2009 and he did say this:

The autopsy will indeed reveal that "Jackson" died of a lethal dose of Diprivan, a dangerous but effective anaesthetic. Jackson's personal doctor will be found guilty of negligence, but his career was on the ropes already. (He said Michael was so delicate he supported his back during CPR--yet Michael was capable of 50 performances?). This desperate excuse for a doctor readily agreed to become a part of Jackson's "death" in return for a 7-figure fee and the best lawyers in the land. You noticed, I assume, how quickly he was in contact with his lawyers? They had a response prepared even before Jackson's double, poor Dimitrie, had breathed his last.

 

I have been following the Michael Jackson death and autoposy so, they haven't said anything about 'diprivan' except it was found in the home. But everything he has said in the las paragraph seems to be coming true:

Michael Jackson medical records subpoenaed

(written today)
 


Read more: http://momsword.org/index.php?option=co ... z1AQI9JOTO (http://momsword.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2248:michael-jackson-death-#ixzz1AQI9JOTO)
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: SEHF on January 08, 2011, 12:40:37 AM
So why didn't the paramedics speak up and say the picture was fake?

:]
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: 2good2btrue on January 08, 2011, 12:52:15 AM
Maybe because the ambos did transport a patient that looked like MJJ but was already dead...and they weren't aware of the pictures taken outside the ambulance as it transported a already dead look-a-like.  

Then Ben Evensted quickly photoshopped those last pics to make it look more authentic, and keep the paramedics in the pics..........Am I making any sense???
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on January 08, 2011, 06:07:18 AM
This is all so strange, makes you think of the word "fabricated evidence" wasnt that what happened to Michael in 2005, false witness evidence.  I will have to go and do more research, but Im really beginining to think that all these conflicting stories are trying to reflect what happened in the 2005 trial and all the rubbish that Sneddon put forward to try to convict Michael :?

Please feel free to say Im talking through my hat :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   But this prelim hearing is developing into a three ring circus.  I was on Justice4MJ livestream last night, all the fan are baying for Murrys blood they have him tried and convicted before he has even had his day in court.  This sounds so familiar to me, we are witnessing HIStory repeating itself in my humble opinion.  All this is setting the scene for the story at the house. :?

Oh lord and we have more next week to.  What will we find out next :shock:  :shock:


Blessings to all, stay strong this will get worse before it gets better :shock:


xx
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: loyalfan on January 08, 2011, 06:41:22 AM
dont you think all this is............WORTHY OF BEING A FILM................ :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: Integrity on January 08, 2011, 01:01:15 PM
Thank you scorpionchic for the the information on the topic about Illumnious Theo.
I do remember reading about all of it some time back and I found it very interesting.
But if this information is true did Michael Jackson fake death have anytihing to do with others trying to kill him. The article did not mention that Mike's life was being threatened and he was doing this to save his life from his ememies..
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: scorpionchik on January 08, 2011, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: "Integrity"
Thank you scorpionchic for the the information on the topic about Illumnious Theo.
I do remember reading about all of it some time back and I found it very interesting.
But if this information is true did Michael Jackson fake death have anytihing to do with others trying to kill him. The article did not mention that Mike's life was being threatened and he was doing this to save his life from his ememies..

I believe the scope of hoax reason is much broad than just life threat. Michael is the only person who knows the reason for 100%. We only can guess until he comes back and tells or hearing will reveal maybe. I think he is tired of fame, and gossip, and lawsuits, and concerts, and threat, all together could be the reason. If Illumino Theo does not mention the reason because perhaps they don't know. Their job was to help with hoax, not necessarily Michael whould tell the reason to anyone who helped with hoax.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: lettingitsimmer on January 08, 2011, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: "Ijustcantstoplovingu"
This is all so strange, makes you think of the word "fabricated evidence" wasnt that what happened to Michael in 2005, false witness evidence.  I will have to go and do more research, but Im really beginining to think that all these conflicting stories are trying to reflect what happened in the 2005 trial and all the rubbish that Sneddon put forward to try to convict Michael :?

Please feel free to say Im talking through my hat :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   But this prelim hearing is developing into a three ring circus.  I was on Justice4MJ livestream last night, all the fan are baying for Murrys blood they have him tried and convicted before he has even had his day in court.  This sounds so familiar to me, we are witnessing HIStory repeating itself in my humble opinion.  All this is setting the scene for the story at the house. :?

Oh lord and we have more next week to.  What will we find out next :shock:  :shock:

 
Blessings to all, stay strong this will get worse before it gets better :shock:


xx
;)  :idea: X
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: lettingitsimmer on January 08, 2011, 05:53:40 PM
Quote from: "loyalfan"
dont you think all this is............WORTHY OF BEING A FILM................ :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


 ;)  :idea: x
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: msteetee34 on January 09, 2011, 03:32:29 AM
I also don't understand how paramedics didn't know it was MJ the day he supposedly died.  How could they not recognize him.  I know he wore make up sometimes but I've seen pics of him where he's not really wearing make up and you can still tell it's him.  Why would they feel the need to show a fake photo the day he supposedly died then.  Clearly on that pic that was broad cast that day was MJ.  No additional ambulance pics makes the hoax seem even more a reality.  He was stalked all the time there should have been numerous pics that day in my opinion especially since they always got pic of MJ doing everything else in his life but the day he supposedly dies nothing.  Yeah right. :!:  :?:  :!:
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: mjboogie on January 09, 2011, 01:34:44 PM
Quote from: "msteetee34"
I also don't understand how paramedics didn't know it was MJ the day he supposedly died.  How could they not recognize him.  I know he wore make up sometimes but I've seen pics of him where he's not really wearing make up and you can still tell it's him.  Why would they feel the need to show a fake photo the day he supposedly died then.  Clearly on that pic that was broad cast that day was MJ.  No additional ambulance pics makes the hoax seem even more a reality.  He was stalked all the time there should have been numerous pics that day in my opinion especially since they always got pic of MJ doing everything else in his life but the day he supposedly dies nothing.  Yeah right. :!:  :?:  :!:
Yeah exactly as far as Ben the photographer u mean to tell me they could only get 1 dam pic? that is crazy!

Then one part of me keep thinking that Ben just rigged up that fake photo in order to make money off of it. Anyways who did he sell it to? And has the company or whoever bought that photo came forward and put Ben on front street??? :x ???
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: bec on January 09, 2011, 07:06:51 PM
Instead of one, there's actually 3 or 4 pics of the famous ambulance pic, shot in sequence, which provides further support that the pic is real.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: Integrity on January 10, 2011, 12:28:19 AM
Well maybe they did not recognize him because it WAS NOT MICHAEL JACKSON.
A while back I read the paramedics said it looked to them like a white pale sickly
old man....mm
KNOW ONE HAS COME FORTH NOT EVEN HIS FAMILY TO VERIFY THAT THE BODY WAS INDEED MICHAEL...
MAYBE THE PARAMEDICS WERE THE ONLY ONES THAT TOLD IT JUST AS THEY SAW IT..
THEY DID NOT KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL BECAUSE IT WAS NOT MICHAEL...
LET ME ASK YOU ALL RIGHT NOW. IF THE PARAMEDICS DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM WHO DID????  WHO VERIFIED THAT WAS HIM???? MAKES YOU WONDER....
TO TOP IF OFF HIS OWN MOTHER ON OPRAH SAYS DR. MURRAY THE KILLER OF MY HER SON WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD ME HE IS DEAD!!!!
THIS TO ME IS BEYOND BELIEF THAT SHE IS EVEN TALKING TO HIM AT ALL AT THAT TIME.
WOULD ANY OF YOU BE TALKING TO HIM OR EVEN ALLOWING HIM TO BE WITH YOUR SON WHEN HE IS A SUSPECT FOR MURDERING YOU SON...
HOW DID THE UCLA HOSPITAL ALLOW THIS!!!! WHY DID SHE NOT TALK TO THE DOCTORS AT UCLA????????
NO ONE HAS CONFIRMED THAT WAS MICHAEL AND THERE REASON FOR HAVING THE CASKET CLOSED IS ABSURD... HIS FACE WAS DAMAGED BY THE PRESSURE FROM THE OXYGEN MASK. PEOLPE HAVE BEEN IN SERIOUS ACCIDENTS WHERE THERE FACE WAS COMPLETELY CRUSHED AND THEY CAN MAKE THEM LOOK AMAZING SO THAT WAS A BOLD FACE LIE,
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: msteetee34 on January 10, 2011, 03:46:59 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Instead of one, there's actually 3 or 4 pics of the famous ambulance pic, shot in sequence, which provides further support that the pic is real.

Those pics maybe real but they were not taken in 2009.  You can tell by the way MJ looks.  He looks darker and younger.  Also the equipment in the ambulance on that photo looks hecka old to me.  I think they were possibly from a prior trip to the hospital he took back in the day.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: curls on January 10, 2011, 05:03:11 AM
Quote from: "Integrity"
THIS TO ME IS BEYOND BELIEF THAT SHE IS EVEN TALKING TO HIM AT ALL AT THAT TIME.
WOULD ANY OF YOU BE TALKING TO HIM OR EVEN ALLOWING HIM TO BE WITH YOUR SON WHEN HE IS A SUSPECT FOR MURDERING YOU SON...

At that time, in the hospital, there was no suspicion or talk of murder. Murray was MJ's doctor so I'd think he was a perfectly acceptable person for her to be talking to. JMO.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: MJ_Facts on January 10, 2011, 01:37:49 PM
THE PARAMEDICS DIDN'T RECOGNIZE MJ BECAUSE HE LOOKED LIKE A "HOSPICE PATIENT". HOWEVER, IN THE HOSPITAL HE WAS IDENTIFIED BY HIS DRIVING LICENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IS THIS SOME KIND OF JOKE??!!

AND NO ONE CALLS THIS ASPECT INTO QUESTION???????  :twisted:
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: bec on January 10, 2011, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: "msteetee34"
Quote from: "bec"
Instead of one, there's actually 3 or 4 pics of the famous ambulance pic, shot in sequence, which provides further support that the pic is real.

Those pics maybe real but they were not taken in 2009.  You can tell by the way MJ looks.  He looks darker and younger.  Also the equipment in the ambulance on that photo looks hecka old to me.  I think they were possibly from a prior trip to the hospital he took back in the day.

All that means is the MJ depicted in the pic is not MJ from 2009. Any other conclusion then that is leaping.

The equipment pictured in the back round is modern, current, and from 2009, as verified by currently employed EMTs.
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: LadyMedic on January 11, 2011, 04:51:22 PM
Quote from: "msteetee34"
Quote from: "bec"
Instead of one, there's actually 3 or 4 pics of the famous ambulance pic, shot in sequence, which provides further support that the pic is real.

Those pics maybe real but they were not taken in 2009.  You can tell by the way MJ looks.  He looks darker and younger.  Also the equipment in the ambulance on that photo looks hecka old to me.  I think they were possibly from a prior trip to the hospital he took back in the day.
That's actually all very current equipment that was used then (June 2009) and is used now.
Title: Re: The EMT's did not recognize Michael
Post by: Integrity on February 01, 2011, 06:21:05 PM
Why didn't the autopsy report explain why MIchael Jackson looked like a hospice or aids patient to the paramedics.
Why didn't the Doctors at UCLA hospital and Jermaine, Latoya, and whoever else saw him at the hospital not ask WHY WAS HE NOT RECOGNIZABLE! I hope I spelled that correctly!
It makes no since!
Title: Re: They did not KNOW IT WAS MICHAEL!!!
Post by: DancingTheDream on February 01, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
Quote from: "Integrity"
. PEOLPE HAVE BEEN IN SERIOUS ACCIDENTS WHERE THERE FACE WAS COMPLETELY CRUSHED AND THEY CAN MAKE THEM LOOK AMAZING SO THAT WAS A BOLD FACE LIE,

Now, thats not true.
Title: Re: The EMT's did not recognize Michael
Post by: Integrity on March 09, 2011, 09:37:13 PM
You are right they can not fix a curshed face but they can fix everything else.
Here is the link!
Session One: Silence, Art and Ritual

Gary Laderman, Ph.D.
Department of Religion, Emory University


Why Embalm?: The Lifeblood of an Industry

From the early part of the twentieth century, funeral directors and others in the industry have offered a variety of explanations for the presence of embalming in American death rituals. While some emphasize public health and sanitation, others stress the solace the body provides to grieving survivors, and still others champion scientific advancements in the preservation of the dead, most agree on one point: embalming is the bedrock of the industry. For funeral directors to convince the public, and themselves, that they are indeed professionals who provide important services to the living--services that depend in large measure on the accessibility of pleasing, familiar-looking corpses that speak to the life lived and disguise the cause of death--embalming had to be located at the center of an elaborate regimen of technically sophisticated skills, bureaucratically informed practices, and culturally convincing symbolic actions that accompany the exit of the body from living society.

Within the first quarter of the twentieth century, embalming became the enduring signature of the nascent American funeral, the lifeblood of the quickly growing industry. Although it was in the process of becoming fully institutionalized as an American practice--through the establishment of schools, professional societies, legal regulations bearing on licensing and use of chemicals, etc.--some uncertainty about its future crept into public self-reflections of funeral men, especially the pioneers who began to see a new generation of funeral directors appear. Howard Eckels, chemical manufacturer and founder of the Eckels College of Embalming in Philadelphia, wrote in his 1921 article, "Can Embalming Be Saved?":

Those of us who have given a lifetime of study and thought to the subject know how many illusions, how many will-o'-the-wisps have flitted across our paths during the past ten or twenty years. We cannot expect, however, that those of another generation will have our viewpoint or get the entire benefit of our perspective.... Embalming is worth saving, because if it be weakened the whole structure of our professional relations with our clients falls, and we again become merely commercial men selling a commercial product, the casket, along with unprofessional and unskilled service.1

Eckels understands embalming as a practice that stands outside of the mundane, economic transactions that take place between client and funeral director, even though clients ultimately pay for it. The empirical, scientific discoveries made by American funeral men have led to tremendous progress in embalming, and the embalmed body, for Eckels and others, is the vessel which allows funeral directors to transcend their status as "commercial men selling a commercial product."

back to top

What is it about the embalmed body that transforms the funeral into something more than a simple financial transaction of goods and services? From early in the twentieth century a series of responses to this question emerged, with most still present on the lips of contemporary funeral directors. One of the most common justifications for embalming by individuals within the industry is that it has public value: to embalm the dead is protect the living from deadly influences. The virtue of preservation is another typical reason given by funeral men and women, which is not surprising considering the keen interest in ancient Egyptian practices. Although preservation is key, the logic of embalming is also supported by critical modern arguments about human psychology, universal religious sensibilities, and the aesthetics of death.

An embalmed body is sanitary, and therefore not threatening to the living; an embalmed body can be preserved, made to fit into the hectic schedule of people traveling long distances to attend the funeral; but most significant to funeral directors, an embalmed body must be seen in order to have value as a source of familial and communal healing. Contrary to the common, familiar critiques against the industry, these ritual specialists argue that the cosmetic aspect of what came to be known as "restorative art" does not lead to the denial of death, but rather to a safe, humane confrontation with its undeniable reality. Embalming allows survivors an opportunity to look death square in the face and in its still silence and recognize the finality without experiencing the terror and dread typically associated with corpses and the processes of dying. One writer coolly and rationally gives the following explanation for embalming: "Humanity, being socially and sentimentally minded, derives a great deal of mental satisfaction from mental images. The last view of a departed one may bring consolation if evidences of disease and suffering have been eradicated."2 For this and other reasons, embalming is often identified as a "healing art" by many within the industry.

In an article from the 1920s, C. F. Callaway, a well-known educator in the field, notes the increasing demand among funeral men, and even some women, for instruction in embalming techniques. After informing his readers that "Accidental deaths are decidedly on the increase," he makes the argument about the artistic merits of embalming and the embalmers' aspirations toward what many artists strive to achieve, an idealized representation of a reality no longer present--in this case, a living person: "The rebuilding of features is really a work of art. It all is the work of an artist and requires the technic [sic] of an artist to fully perform this feat.... In every human face there are certain points that are essential and that we must bring out if we would produce a face that is in any degree natural.... We must see not the face before us, but the face we would have before us."3

The artistry involved in preparing a body for its final appearance requires many essential components, including: appropriate training and practice, if the living are truly to transcend the suffering and disorder that accompanies the death of a close relation; a desire to engage in this kind of work that few people in society possess, which contributes to a sense of election among those who make the decision to enter the guild; and a commitment to serving the public, who demand that specialists oversee the removal of their dead in an acceptable, respectful manner.

back to top

How a dead body looks to survivors is of the utmost importance to individuals within the industry. A successful funeral is one with an open casket and an embalmed body that appears familiar and nonthreatening to the visitors. Significant increases in accidental and work-related deaths, as well as the appearance of new forms of disease that ravage the body, led embalmers to experiment with reconstructive surgery on the cadaver. Indeed, an entirely new form of surgery emerged in the first half of the century that relied on inventive surgical interventions and innovative artificial manipulations, including the utilization of cosmetics, to restore the face of the dead individual. In a trade article on the state of embalming in 1921, Thomas Hurst identifies this important development, as well as situations in which these kinds of efforts should definitely not be pursued:

Demi-surgery is a name given the art of restoring mutilated features in accident cases, or in cases where a cancer has eaten part of the face away, or maybe a bullet or stab wound.... I have seen and done many wonderful things by resorting to demi- surgery, such as making a new upper lip, cutting out a cancer on the face and filling it in to match the other side, but if the head is crushed, nothing can be done and it is better that the body not be viewed.4

The principal aim of the artistic reconstruction? Hurst explains, "Proficiency in this field of endeavor will enable the mortician to improve one of his greatest services to the public, and that is the alleviation of grief."5 Funeral directors and embalmers understand their duties as a moral imperative with real therapeutic results: laying hands on the body of the dead for the relief of the human community is not only the basis for an economic transaction, it was also an ethical, religious duty that in their experiences eases the pain of those in mourning.

The chemical companies were particularly interested in successful embalming procedures: they were apparently confident that a natural-looking corpse would not only ease the suffering of the grieving family, but also be a potential source of good public relations with the local community who attend funerals and care about appearances. In one advertisement from 1928, for example, an embalming fluid company asks what becomes the key question of any self- respecting funeral director: "Shall the last picture become a comforting memory?"6 This is indeed the crux of the matter. From early on, the industry was built on rhetorical and ritual links between the last look at the body, the creation of a "memory-image" or "memory picture," the realization that death has occurred, and meaningful healing in the experience of death. The production of a memorable corpse, therefore, requires a delicate balance of capturing both life and death in the features of the departed: the funeral director must present a body that simultaneously captures a living personality and forces the living to confront the fact of death.

back to top

One of the major fluid companies emphasizes the value of the embalmed body, and the weight it carries in local community relations, in a bulletin entitled "The Man of the Hour." This bulletin, one of a series in the Champion Expanding Encyclopedia of Mortuary Practice, was published by the Department of Service and Research, a division of the Champion Company, and distributed to funeral homes throughout the states. It begins:

He is the dead man. Although his tongue be silenced, this is his hour. He may have been a timorous soul while here, but now he has become a hero.... He may have been a liar, but the message he speaks in death is true. Regardless of his character, he will have an audience. His audience will be small or large in proportion to his few or many friends. They will be impressed by the truth of what he is saying, and he is talking about you, to whom the duty of preparing his remains was entrusted.... You cannot refute his message if it is unfavorable to you. If he has praise for you, it is worth more than all the advertising space you can buy.7

The author goes on to imagine a scenario in which the customer is unsatisfied with the appearance of the body (with the body "speaking" to the audience, sending such messages as "Look at my swollen neck and cauliflower ears!"8 ). Positive word-of-mouth about the corpse after the funeral is clearly a critical element in the success or failure of a funeral home, according to this piece. If the skills of the embalmer allow the body to communicate to the audience, "I present to you a picture of me that is a true resemblance of my healthy, vigorous condition when we were so closely associated," the rewards will come to both the funeral director, who will have an increase in business, and the mourners, whose memories will be sufficiently comforted by a last look. The author imagines the dead body saying to the living visitors: "Even though I have been dead for several days, there is no odor to remind you of unpleasant things. Such, indeed, is the memory of my appearance that I would have you carry, and this you owe to the man who was responsible for preparing my body for burial.... He realized that his greatest obligation was to present my remains, for a last view, in such a condition that my appearance at the time would alleviate some of your sorrow, rather than increase it."9 Although others claim the funeral director's "greatest obligation" is to the bottom line, the reality for many within the industry is that it refers to a higher calling.

Whatever the dead body may "say" to the living, the success or failure of embalming depends on the expertise and knowledge of the embalmer. Another educator and prolific writer within the funeral industry, Charles A. Renouard, son of educational pioneer Auguste Renouard, describes the difficult balance between technological intervention and preservation of natural characteristics. In his discussion of the science of embalming and the physiology of decay, it is evident that the embalmer is in a sobering battle with the forces of nature, forces that work at cross-purposes with preservation. In his 1940 article, "The Real Meaning of Embalming," Renouard writes:

Modern embalming is a physico [sic] chemical proposition based on well defined cosmic influences that exert strange and relentless decomposition on everything that has served its earthly purpose. Nature exerts, without discrimination, that well balanced process of putrefaction, without which we would be overwhelmed with incalculable amounts of dead material on earth. While nature performs these exacting functions to reduce all dead organic material, we, as embalmers, must be just as exacting in our process of applying antiseptics and disinfectants to these organic substances to prevent nature from carrying out this universal process so necessary to our wellbeing [sic].10

While Renouard focuses on the scientific theories behind the embalming procedure, he does not fail to note the goal of modern embalming: making the body look natural for the mourners.

back to top

Many individuals within the industry assume that their authority on the subject of embalming, an authority based on education, experience, and artistry, is enough to legitimate their professional standing in American society. Fortunately for the growing class of morticians, however, the undeniably strong demand by consumers from the beginning of the century for their services, and a presentable corpse, confirmed their own perceptions. A. O. Spriggs, who wrote a textbook on restorative art in 1946, explains that, "Perhaps one of the saddest human experiences is the necessity of committing a loved one to the earth without being permitted to bestow a farewell look upon the features to be laid away forever." Spriggs expresses some caution, like so many other writers do, about the limits of postmortem plastic surgery and paying attention to the wishes of the family when the face has been damaged beyond repair. He then argues that, although morticians should be circumspect about the use of restorative surgery, a growing demand, fueled by the public�s deep-rooted need to have a last look, requires that they remain proficient in these skills.11

In another textbook on embalming from the 1950s, The Principles and Practice of Embalming, the authors cover some of the reasons for embalming the dead. They begin with the practical, and scientifically obvious to them, issue of public health. After a discussion of the virtues of disinfecting the dead body, they turn to more religious and psychological concerns. It is self-evident to the authors that "funeral service is built entirely upon... a feeling of respect and reverence for the beloved dead." Without these sentiments, they argue, the dead would simply be a "bit of refuse to be disposed of as quickly, easily and economically as possible."12 Because some Americans may have a less-than-reverential attitude toward the dead and the funeral, morticians feel a social responsibility to preserve the integrity of the dead, which in turn reinforces the integrity of their chosen profession:

Crudeness and disrespect have no more place in the presence of the dead than they have in the presence of the living.... Every student mortician must learn from his very first day of contact with this vocation that he must, throughout his entire professional career, regard every deceased person as a beloved parent or brother or sister.... The unnecessary exposure of any body, the admission of unauthorized persons into the preparation room, the regarding of the deceased as an object rather than as the sacred remains of a human being--these are crimes against decency.... We, the morticians of America, are the protectors of the modesty and dignity of the dead.... The care and disposition of the dead is, in all of its aspects, a religious rite which requires all of the dignity and solemnity accorded the other sacred customs and procedures of any church or religious group.13

Whether or not all funeral directors subscribed to the view expressed in this quotation and saw their duties in explicitly religious terms, by the middle of the twentieth century embalming the dead was a basic feature in American funerals. Before Jessica Mitford leveled her harsh and hilarious attack on the industry in The American Way of Death, embalming had already received its share of public criticism. Yet in spite of these highly publicized diatribes, undertakers continued to insist that the practice served a variety of purposes related to the public good, family unity, individual psychology, and, for sure, their own economic survival. From the pioneers to the present generation, embalming plays an absolutely vital role in the successful funeral service. What Mitford held up for ridicule, many within the industry, as well as many in the local communities that supported neighborhood funeral homes, understood as a socially significant, if not outright sacred, duty for the living.

back to top

If the only evidence for this position on embalming remained within the institutional literature of the industry, it would be easy to dismiss it as a form of propaganda. Other forms of popular support for this view, however, indicate that many outside of the industry prefer their dead be embalmed. The numerous letters and cards that funeral directors have received from their satisfied, and deeply appreciative, customers is a case in point. One of many examples reads:

Words are so inadequate to express my thanks and gratitude to you, for your kindness shown me and B--. "He was truly beautiful." My prayers were long and many for a miracle that B-- be found; and God saw fit to grant this. Then my prayers were for each of you in your work, that I might see B-- once again, and again He granted another miracle.14

Without question, funeral directors and others within the industry also engaged in innovative rhetorical acrobatics that accounted for embalming in the lives of Americans: embalming was presented as a thoroughly modern practice, yet contiguous with certain American traditions; it was explained as a scientific procedure that also had religious and psychological benefits; and it was understood as a highly technical, hygienically beneficial intervention that required the delicate skills of an artist. But embalming could not have become the lifeblood of the industry if it did not satisfy some demand on the part of grieving consumers. From the early years of the twentieth century to the final decades, the appearance of the dead, and the desire among the living for a memorable last look at the individual, has been a hallmark of the American way of death. Over the course of the century, many did not want, and were in fact outraged, at the inclusion of this practice in the treatment of the dead. But the success of an industry--a multibillion dollar industry by the 1970s--depended on, indeed was anchored by, the visible embalmed body. While the relatively minor successes of cremation, memorial and funeral societies, and do-it-yourself funerals must be acknowledged, and the evidence of questionable, if not outright illegal, activities by some within the industry must be admitted, embalming makes the prosperity of the industry possible. There are, of course, other reasons for this prosperity as well--but the embalmed body is squarely at the center of the cultural history of the funeral industry.

This text is excerpted from Laderman�s Death in Modern America: A Cultural History of the Funeral Home, forthcoming in Fall 2002 from Oxford University Press.
Title: Re: The EMT's did not recognize Michael
Post by: PureLove on March 09, 2011, 10:19:50 PM
I made this post on TS' March 9 redirect regarding to the ambulance. This can explain why the paramedics didn't recognize Michael.

Quote from: "PureLove"

I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.

Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.

So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.

Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?
Title: Re: The EMT's did not recognize Michael
Post by: Integrity on March 10, 2011, 03:11:38 PM
Thats makes a lot of sense Purelove!
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal