Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: mjboogie on December 18, 2009, 01:51:10 PM
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Guys, HI :) I was just sitting at my desk here at work thinking about MJ (as I have every single day since June 25th) I am wondering. I have heard quite a few peopl well I take that back a few people stating that MJ was a quite lonely man! Latoya, Rabbi Schmuley, Uri Geller, can you think of who else? It baffles me because I simply cannot understand why MJ would be so lonely! I mean he had fame, money, cars, women(well access to women if he really wanted to take them out!), I mean family! I cant understand what makes him lonley. To be so sweet of a human, kind hearted, humble, meek (need I go on) I am not simply referring to romantic love. I understand he had his kids which consumed some of his lonliness but.......... I never understood (even after reading the Rabbi's book (and yes I read it!) why MJ never found his one true love. I did not understand the nature of him and Debbie Rowe's relationship (except the part about the kids). MJ would have been the ideal husband! Sweet, kind, loveable, giving. He seemed like the type where his wife would not only have the things she desires but also his heart. He would treat her so warmly and sweet (like a princess!) Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. Maybe if i see some insight from some of you (even though none of us knew MJ personally) but.... shed some light. Because I got an idea of it from Schmuley'b book. but I never understood MJ's lonliness. :)
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All I can say is, that I can imagine how he must feel... I had a lot of friends, and everything that I wanted, but I felt lonely too..
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Yeah and I also think he felt lonely because he wanted to go out and see normal people so badly, but he couldn't.. It was like he was stuck in his home. Yeah, he had a amusement park, but it is still so hard if you never could go out and go shopping or something and knowing you will NEVER do that as yourself.. :(
So I can understand Mike. But I think he has now lots of love from his close friends and family :D
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I would be the lonliest woman on earth too if I was the most famous woman on earth. Most people never wanted Michael for who he was but for the money he had or the fame he had. Most people, even me, only saw Michael as a supericon and not a human being, that can make anyone feel lonely. He had hundreds of thousands screaming fans chanting his name outside his hotel balcony, you wouldnt think he was lonely then but when he went to bed at night there was no decent person beside him when he fell asleep because there was no way he could let all those fans into his hotel room right? Most people, including me again, saw Michael as this icon, almost non-human. I would feel lonely too if people didnt see me as human.
It cant be easy for Michael finding a woman who loves him for who he is and not the fortune he owns and the legacy he has set. Michael even said people who saw him never spoke to him like a next door neighbour, they would cringe, scream, behave awkward or even suck up to him. But when he is in a costume, or in disguise.. He gets to feel what it feels like to be normal. So yeah, I understand him why he felt lonely being Michael Jackson. People treated him like he was non-human. Like it was OK to rip out his hair when chasing him down the road. Michael just wanted friends, normal friends, being able to walk down the street without being chased. I would feel lonely too if I wasnt able to walk down the street like a normal person would and always had to take the back door entrance somewhere and be prohibited to walk and enjoy normal events his other family members get to do.
Michael said when he was a kid he felt lonely and cried because he had to go to the studio when kids in his age could stay outdoors and play ball. Michael was always lonely. He is a prodigy but its a damn sad story...
Having money, estates, women means nothing when you cant enjoy walking down the street or go to a normal amusement park and enjoy your time or have your face photographed wherever you go, be sued every other week by greedy people who wants a piece of you, be prosecuted with child molestation alligations and have everyone think you are a pedophile when you're not. This is why Michael gave away so much money to charity, it meant nothing to him as much as it meant to giving back to the world and helping others. Sure Michael had video-women in his life and good looking girls but Michael was a shy person, he never got to enjoy the life of a woman because he had a life of entertainment which was his number one priority. Michael is a child at heart, it cant be easy having a woman in your life when you feel like you are 10 years old in your soul and the significant other wants to pursue other things than play all day long. This is why he got children, Michael was lonely without children. He could relate to children, this is why he never gave up on himself, for the sake of his children.
Wouldn't you feel lonely too if you werent able to do the things we take for granted? To to a regular public school like the other children, play outside like everyone else would, ride a bus with a bunch of strangers, go grocery shopping without having to close it down and have your friends play the store customers and managers, walk down the street and enjoy fresh air outside your front gates?
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You can still be world famous and a great celebrity but your real friends are ones who would love you if you were a penniless unknown, people who would not take advantage of you, by the time you find out they are not genuine it is too late. I don't think he was as lonely as some assume-he had his family-some people have no family. I think his suffering was fame at a very early age, missing out on a lot in his childhood years and then in his adult years being taken advantage of by the very people/friends he trusted. Must be heartbreaking to discover who you thought loved you and had your best interests at heart were only sweetening you up and being nice for their own financial gain and what they could get out of the friendship. He did have loyal friends like Elizabeth Taylor and Miko Brando and of course he had his Mother and Janet who he was always close to.
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Dontbelievethehype:
You said it all in a nutshell.
I remember listening to an interview on youtube where he said. He always wanted a family of his own just like his brothers. I was a bit warm when I saw the front page of Ebony mentioned MJ: Our Icon. He is not an Icon! He is not an animal! He is a human with feelings like all of us. I am glad you shared this, you really took the words out of my mouth. This was how he was treated. What a shame?!
[why MJ would be so lonely! I mean he had fame, money, cars, women(well access to women if he really wanted to take them out!)/quote]
Because material things can't fill a void.[/b]
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I wish people like us guys on here could of met him.
It's clear that even though we don't know him like a friend or a family member, we genuinely love him and would of loved to meet him. Not in a crazy fan, obsessed way.. But just to meet him and talk and get to know him.
Michael seems so down to earth, genuine and sweet. He gave love to everyone he met and I wish he got that love back :( No wonder he was lonely.
You could be a room full of people but still feel isolated. I feel like that sometimes. It's horrible.. And I can't begin to imagine how MJ must of felt, feeling that way almost always.
Michael didn't have many people.. And although 'fans' loved him.. I guess all he really wanted was a wife and kids (I'm so glad he has Paris, Prince and Blanket) and some true friends. But when you're that famous.. It's hard to know who wants you for you and who wants you for your money and fame.
I love you Michael! Just call my name and I'll be there ;)
Lol :) x
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Dontbelievethehype:
You said it all in a nutshell.
I remember listening to an interview on youtube where he said. He always wanted a family of his own just like his brothers. I was a bit warm when I saw the front page of Ebony mentioned MJ: Our Icon. He is not an Icon! He is not an animal! He is a human with feelings like all of us. I am glad you shared this, you really took the words out of my mouth. This was how he was treated. What a shame?!
why MJ would be so lonely! I mean he had fame, money, cars, women(well access to women if he really wanted to take them out!)
Because material things can't fill a void.[/b]
Thanks Infinitylady!!! I agree with you too.
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Don'tbelievethehype:
You're exactly right. Very well put!!
No one treated Michael like a normal person, it must of been awful :(
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Thanks MJ-fan!
Also I want to add by saying, there is a big difference between being alone and being lonely. Michael was never alone. He had an enormous family, bigger than Ive ever encountered in my lifetime and Im only raised with a mom and a sister, no grandparents, no uncles, no dad around me. Michael had a huge family and he always had producers, managers, backup singers, dancers and most of all fans around him. He had millions and millions of fans who were constantly awaiting wherever he went, he sold out stadiums that packed hundreds of thousands of screaming fans and there were always children around him. So, Michael was never alone. But that dosnt mean he wasn't lonely. Its important to understand the difference between being alone and being lonely. You can have the worlds population around you and a family thats too large to fit in your livingroom at thanksgiving and sing infront of sold out concerts but still feel lonely. I believe Michael was lonely because he had no one to relate to (other than possibly Elizabeth Taylor). No one has gone through the things Michael have because he is one of a kind in history so it must be lonely not having anyone to share that experience with, not having anyone who completely understands what your upbringing and personal life was like.
Ive been through alot in my life and thankfully Im not the only one, I know there have been times Ive felt very lonely but Ive come to realise that the things Ive been through has happened to millions of people on this earth but unfortunately the things Michael was subjected to since 5 years of age, not alot of people have. So he was lonely in that sence.
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Dontbelievethehype pretty much covered the spectrum for you! Michael said once that when people (regular) people realized he was around they acted differant. If he was out in disguise and someone realized they were sitting next to MJ they acted differantly. You can imagine-putting on your best face or best manners and totally breaking your routine. Staring at him because you just cant take your eyes off of him (in a good way for some in a bad way for some). The millions that camped out everywhere he went and was his army, in a real way , more than likey made him feel like he was never allowed to be lower than a king. You can be surrounded by people and still be alone...regualr people deal with as well.
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Guys, HI :) I was just sitting at my desk here at work thinking about MJ (as I have every single day since June 25th) I am wondering. I have heard quite a few peopl well I take that back a few people stating that MJ was a quite lonely man! Latoya, Rabbi Schmuley, Uri Geller, can you think of who else? It baffles me because I simply cannot understand why MJ would be so lonely! I mean he had fame, money, cars, women(well access to women if he really wanted to take them out!), I mean family! I cant understand what makes him lonley. To be so sweet of a human, kind hearted, humble, meek (need I go on) I am not simply referring to romantic love. I understand he had his kids which consumed some of his lonliness but.......... I never understood (even after reading the Rabbi's book (and yes I read it!) why MJ never found his one true love. I did not understand the nature of him and Debbie Rowe's relationship (except the part about the kids). MJ would have been the ideal husband! Sweet, kind, loveable, giving. He seemed like the type where his wife would not only have the things she desires but also his heart. He would treat her so warmly and sweet (like a princess!) Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. Maybe if i see some insight from some of you (even though none of us knew MJ personally) but.... shed some light. Because I got an idea of it from Schmuley'b book. but I never understood MJ's lonliness. :)
I read Rabbi's book too and more other just to understand Michael's loneliness, Michael the man. And my conclusions were the following( don't shoot me now, please !):
1. fame is not a good quality when about private life
2. money is a permanent source of problems as you cannot trust anybody anymore because money make you thinking that a person/woman could be interested by your financial power and stability only
3. being a perfectionist is ' the supreme sin' since nobody is perfect, women less than that ;)
4. Michael's Rx drug dependency made him a difficult person and i remember Lisa Marie talking about this.
5. giving his fame, money, cars, access to women a.s.o. Michael became a little egocentric forgetting that love means 'being present' anytime, body and soul, and tell me what woman in this world would accept to be on the second/third/fourth ...plan when about love and marriage.
6.and he didn't trust women because of his brother's sad experiences
Moreover loneliness doesn't refer to a missing person, a soul mate, but to lack of understanding in general. I think that's Michael has been looking for : UNDERSTANDING.
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Whow, this seems to be quite a topic (lots of long posts :) ) ...
Just my two cents:
I think MJ experienced loneliness from such an early age (5 or 6) when he was not allowed to have friends his own age (always just rehearsals) and even back then he soon became the "star" amongst his brothers which meant a whole lot of responsibility (everything and everybody relied on him).
At the same time - beeing used to have a bunch of "family" around - he never had a "real soulmate" ... someone close to just him as a kid/person to share his thoughts and feelings and exchange confidences with.
And growing up in a fishbowl beeing surrounded by only adults who tell you what to do (and his brothers and even his father beeing more interested in girls/fans and stuff than in little Michael) ... this must have left him with the impression that he is just expected to always functionate (perform and achieve) and never fail to do (Joe`s threats still in effect ...).
Remember, he never was part of any "peer group" or experienced any other adequate social interaction ... his lonely soul probably never learnt to develope a deeper eye-to-eye realtionship (well, Hollywood divas couldn`t really provide that lol) - and I guess that`s what he missed throughout his life.
Lots of - some only so called - friends can never mean the same...
I can imagine - and feel sorry ....
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Prisoner of his own fame, he could never be sure if people liked him for him or for his fame. If someone with no money who lived a meger life said all the things that MJ did, would you love them, would you promote their words, probably not.
He needed some real people around him, but real people have their own lives and their own jobs, so he gave them jobs with him, then they were not real people anymore because what they thought and said affected their jobs and livelihood
That's why he tried to devlop friendships with other child stars or famous people because they would have some sort of common ground, although I do not think anyone has been as famous as Michael Jackson ever, and no one else has been under such scrutiny.
It must be difficult if he was not so distinctive he could meet people and pretend to be someone else but this is not really possible. Poor guy!
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Guys, HI :) I was just sitting at my desk here at work thinking about MJ (as I have every single day since June 25th) I am wondering. I have heard quite a few peopl well I take that back a few people stating that MJ was a quite lonely man! Latoya, Rabbi Schmuley, Uri Geller, can you think of who else? It baffles me because I simply cannot understand why MJ would be so lonely! I mean he had fame, money, cars, women(well access to women if he really wanted to take them out!), I mean family! I cant understand what makes him lonley. To be so sweet of a human, kind hearted, humble, meek (need I go on) I am not simply referring to romantic love. I understand he had his kids which consumed some of his lonliness but.......... I never understood (even after reading the Rabbi's book (and yes I read it!) why MJ never found his one true love. I did not understand the nature of him and Debbie Rowe's relationship (except the part about the kids). MJ would have been the ideal husband! Sweet, kind, loveable, giving. He seemed like the type where his wife would not only have the things she desires but also his heart. He would treat her so warmly and sweet (like a princess!) Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. Maybe if i see some insight from some of you (even though none of us knew MJ personally) but.... shed some light. Because I got an idea of it from Schmuley'b book. but I never understood MJ's lonliness. :)
I think Mj never found someone who was well-suited to him. I think he had/has unlimited access to easy girls who want a piece of him or his money. But no one who wanted to give a piece of herself to him meaning her loyalty, understanding, love, help, security, good instruction,etc..
In shmuley's book, Michael is, in a way painted, as very mistrusting of women. WHich in a way is a good thing, i think (i have a brother who just got out of a relationship with a gold digger.) In Michael's line of work, thats probably all he could find were Dirty Diana's.
I think Michael was probably looking for a woman (of course all men want someone they can look at if yanawadamean) but also who can be trustworthy, who could have a good playful time and enjoy the same things as he did, who was loyal, only look out for his best interests and well being and one in which he could do the same. where he could be the man (not in male chauvanistic way but just being masculine cuz we all know he was), where he could have a girl to protect..
did i just project my fantasies? haha :lol:
i don't think he would have found many women like that in his line of business. I always say he should have married Brooke Shields. I think she was so pretty. they would had some cute kids together. lol but of course I never met either one of them so I couldn't honestly tell you. All I can give you is my opinion. :D
although i think we could all agree that Michael needed/s a very special girl, indeed.
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Yeah, I think Brooke is a good match for him, too.
Now, I know that MJ has had plenty of lonely times, and I'll probably be skewered for this, but I think that people like La Toya, the rabbi and even MJ himself (Remember, he's a master at PR) would sometimes exaggerate the loneliness for the sake of PR. I mean, to give that "isolated genius" image. It's mostly true, but maybe not exactly to the extent (Again, mostly people like Miss Toya and that rabbi) they've said. Besides, every single woman he's ever met can't have been a gold-digging tramp, come on, guys! I think he has had at least one relationship in secret so that she wouldn't be hounded or the media wouldn't put strain on them, like Blanket's mom. Who knows, if he comes back what if he's engaged to someone? That would be great! He and that Ruska Bergman seemed pre-tty close just recently..
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I agree with all of you and echo your sentiments!! ;)
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ok i don't wanna sound like the negative nelly here.. BUT.. have you ever thought that he never was satisfied with the woman or women that he had.. he always found fault with himself so why not with women too.. i don't mean it that they wasn't perfect in what he was looking for but he wanted something more.. if you understnad what i mean!!
like his persecption of things wasn't enough.. even when he was at his most beautiful..(even tho he is now) but you know what i mean.. he was never satisfied!!
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I do think MJ was lonely but a lot of that was self inflicted in a way... he became a hermit and hid himself away. He suffered from depression and low self esteem in areas.
One of the heartbreaking thing i read in Shumis book was when he described the mannequins and he said "i knew something was wrong, surrounding myself with the mannequins but i couldnt understand why i needed to do it".
I wish MJ had got some self help, and councelling and forced him to confront his own demons and problems. It is hard but it can be done.
I myself have suffered from depression and compulsive disorders.. but i fought against it and got myself out of that negative behavioural pattern. Ive done some of the things MJ has done.. ive obsessed over exercise and food, and my appearance and ive locked myself away and been a hermit. But it does no good.
Also.. i think MJ would be a hard man to love in the sense of his lifestyle. In order to let a woman into his heart MJ would have to let down some of his defenses and put her first in his life.
I know that at one point in his marriage to Lisa Marie he disappeared for 5 weeks with no explanation.... that is hard for a wife to put up with!!!! No wonder she was angry at him.
His marriage to Debbie Rowe wasnt real.. she was a surrogate.
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Money can buy you everything you want but not what`s important in life ,like true friends and someone who loves you for who you are.So many celebs get surrounded by all these hangers on that are just out for what they can get.Money is the root of all evil that brings out the worst in people.
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Thank you all soo much. I am really starting to develop an understanding of what MJ went through during his lonley periods. I mean I am understanding the reasons for the lonliness. The fame just took everything or consumed everything I should say. I do believe if MJ had gotten a bit of counseling to face some of his inner turmoil or demons he would have been more open to developing a healthy loving relationship with a woman. I know he had a negative view of women from watching his brothers go through with their wives. In Rabbi's book. The Rabbi asked MJ if he thought it was wrong for men to cheat on their wives? MJ responded yes he knows it is wrong, but he can understand why!! OMG! I still luv MJ ;) but I was like wth? MJ how could u! I think he grew up with negativity concerning women also I believe a #1 reason for MJ remaining single was because he thought most women were after his money! And when you have so much fortune as MJ, I mean I can understand why he felt this way. But I still think that he deserved a loving relationship. I think MJ is the type that would have to be in a relationship with a woman for a long time before committing to marriage or engagement in order to make sure she is not after him for his money and genuinely loved him for him! Him and Lisa Marie went into it much too quickly, and also she was highly dishonest with MJ because at first she was like yeah we can have many kids! And then once MJ married her she was like no! I have mine! That hurts! Only making MJ shut down to women. As far as Debbie? Well........... I dont believe there was anything. A surrogate maybe a genuine friendship. But looking back on him and Debbie's history? They really did not have much contact. She was receiving pay (and she still does) and that was that! I welcome your thoughts i am enjoying this topic. If you have something different to share on Debbie feel free cause I definitley could not understand MJ and her!
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People with extremely artistic temperaments are really prone to melancholia (extreme loneliness). It's part of the creative persona that they have. MJ is a very typical melancholic person. Although he mostly had this kind of emotion, I think he also had times of extreme happiness and joy..