Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2011 => Topic started by: mjssoulmate on January 16, 2011, 10:22:46 PM
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NLT (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:13,14&version=NLT)
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Galatians 5:13; Galatians 5:14 (New Living Translation)
Galatians 5:13
For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love.
Galatians 5:14
For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
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This is an interesting redirect because I think the 1/16 re: Martin Luther, demonstrates the Galatians 5:13-14 scripture very well. I have struggled with what to write about yesterday’s redirect. Ever since studying M.L. in my German class in college, I've not been an admirer of Martin Luther and I couldn’t quite figure out how it related to the MJ hoax.
But, I see today's redirect as insight. Martin Luther is lauded as a reformer and he fought for every person to have the freedom to, as Christians, commune with God directly in faith. His efforts are clearly courageous and transformative, which I respect, as it’s had a bearing on my life as a believer who cherishes a direct relationship with Christ.
Yet, Martin Luther was a complex man who’s freedom, I feel, ended up satisfying his sinful nature. Obviously, there was some important good that he did, but he could not overcome his sins for Love’s sake. To me, he is an example of what happens if you cannot “love your neighbor as yourself.”
I know that you can’t judge the totality of a person only on their mistakes or faults but I’ve never felt that Martin Luther’s accomplishments as a church reformer really outweighed the great harm he fostered, which, in my readings, helped to create a climate of extreme anti-Semitism, intolerance of religious differences, and a tacit nod to continued inservitude of the peasantry and the transatlantic slave trade.
:arrow: Interesting article: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/MartinLuther-HitlersSpiritualAncestor.html
Perhaps it is my own bias, but I cannot relate well to anyone who says they have a personal relationship with Christ, yet they cannot express basic decency, respect and humanity for “the least of these” or for those who practice a different faith tradition. In my opinion, Martin Luther did not practice LOVE and ultimately his beliefs veer far from the teachings of Jesus or Michael Jackson’s and Dr. King’s message of faith, hope, charity and justice for all.
(NOTE: As hoaxers, we have some difficult days ahead and when I think of loving our neighbors, I first think about the “non-believing” fans. What shall we do about them? What should be our guiding principle for garnering more support in the Army of L.O.V.E.? Where have all the supporters gone? Perhaps today’s redirect is one of the answers... Time is of the essence! Onward, Soldiers!)
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That's some wise advise on MLK day. Thanks TS.
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SoldierofLOVE
Perhaps it is my own bias, but I cannot relate well to anyone who says they have a personal relationship with Christ, yet they cannot express basic decency, respect and humanity for “the least of these” or for those who practice a different faith tradition. In my opinion, Martin Luther did not practice LOVE and ultimately his beliefs veer far from the teachings of Jesus or Michael Jackson’s and Dr. King’s message of faith, hope, charity and justice for all.
But Martin Luther was the beginning of the Protestant church. All of the western world would still be Catholic if not for him. Jesus taught an exclusive belief system, believe in Him or...
MJ here through TS and Dr. King speak ONLY of selfless love for your neighbour regardless of belief.
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[attachment=0:zni5q3j4]OgAAADGmRZbW7Jm9zgcM7LuoFslo5CywxEWwYTjeQPbogRM_nhIZyofVpg8CuQwnDa3-Q_DTEufghjRmy9xD7XFTYn8Am1T1UCm6Nau05U7vKlkmpbCt3Biae_QN (3).jpg[/attachment:zni5q3j4]what a great redirect on my birthday TS.................PLEASE SAY HELLO TO ME TODAY AND MAKE MY BIRTHDAY COMPLETE............xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Happy Birthday loyalfan! You look very happy! God bless you!
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thankyou so much xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Happy Birthday Loyalfan! And thanks TS for the redirect. We're still watchin'! ;)
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I think (but i can be wrong of course) that the main ideas of these two last redirects is the freedom of belief, the corruption of religions, think for yourself and love is the answer.
God gave us FREEDOM, and the freedom of belief is an important one. Freedom is one of God's most precious gifts to ALL of us and we should have the right to enjoy this gift from God for free without being persecuted, hated, diminished because of the beliefs we hold, the religion we practice. We should not be accountable about our faiths before so called authorities who have no God-given legitimacy and for most of them have corrupted religions to serve their evil agenda. Therefore in order to fully enjoy this freedom we absolutely must think for ourselves because God gave us all the capacity to do so. By thinking for ourselves and making the choices we want in life we are free. If we blindly follow the crowd, the majority, or whatever else that can be followed, without using our capacities then we are not really free, or not free at all. Hence an important thing to do in the matter of faith is to study the scriptures ourselves and really make the effort to understand the message and not let others dictate and impose to us their, most often, biased interpretations. Open your heart to God and He will guide you in this journey.
This leads me to say that everyone is responsible for the choices they make in life hence the importance to think for ourselves and not let others choose for us...that's why freedom is a required condition, a God-given right so that the "thinking for ourselves" can be fully applied and enjoyed.
Now we must honor this gift of freedom and use it for the best purposes... as serving one another in love and by being good examples to others. If everybody followed this basic rule "“Love your neighbor as yourself” ... no matter who the neighbour is... there would be a LOT less problems on earth. Love is really what can make this world a better place. My love to you all. ;)
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Happy Birthday Loyalfan. :P
Thanks for the redirect TS patiently watching and waiting for Michaels command to give my all. Its ALL FOR L.O.V.E.
God bless all.
:P
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Sarahli that was beautifully said. Love to you and I agree with you entirely.
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Sarahli that was beautifully said. Love to you and I agree with you entirely.
Thank you my dear :)
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Happy birthday loyalfan~~ :lol:
Thank you TS :D
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[youtube:2z0fw9gm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzKOrlPuWzo[/youtube:2z0fw9gm]
everything lately has had me thinking about this song. from the last two redirects to esther to dancing the dreams michael did drink post from wow a couple of months ago.guess i have been thinking about it for a while now .
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For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
this is the whole law indeed........ if you hate yourself it's a different story......
So I guess we must love ourselves first and then love the others at least that much :mrgreen:
Thank you to all my teachers ;)
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aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hate computors
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NLT (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:22-23&version=NLT)
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[attachment=0:283bish0]OgAAADGmRZbW7Jm9zgcM7LuoFslo5CywxEWwYTjeQPbogRM_nhIZyofVpg8CuQwnDa3-Q_DTEufghjRmy9xD7XFTYn8Am1T1UCm6Nau05U7vKlkmpbCt3Biae_QN (3).jpg[/attachment:283bish0]what a great redirect on my birthday TS.................PLEASE SAY HELLO TO ME TODAY AND MAKE MY BIRTHDAY COMPLETE............xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Loyalfan
Happy birthday!!!
And soon you get an unforgettable gift!
no only you, but all of us here! :P :P :P
Cheers!!
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Sarahli wrote:
I think (but i can be wrong of course) that the main ideas of these two last redirects is the freedom of belief, the corruption of religions, think for yourself and love is the answer.
God gave us FREEDOM, and the freedom of belief is an important one. Freedom is one of God's most precious gifts to ALL of us and we should have the right to enjoy this gift from God for free without being persecuted, hated, diminished because of the beliefs we hold, the religion we practice. We should not be accountable about our faiths before so called authorities who have no God-given legitimacy and for most of them have corrupted religions to serve their evil agenda. Therefore in order to fully enjoy this freedom we absolutely must think for ourselves because God gave us all the capacity to do so. By thinking for ourselves and making the choices we want in life we are free. If we blindly follow the crowd, the majority, or whatever else that can be followed, without using our capacities then we are not really free, or not free at all. Hence an important thing to do in the matter of faith is to study the scriptures ourselves and really make the effort to understand the message and not let others dictate and impose to us their, most often, biased interpretations. Open your heart to God and He will guide you in this journey.
This leads me to say that everyone is responsible for the choices they make in life hence the importance to think for ourselves and not let others choose for us...that's why freedom is a required condition, a God-given right so that the "thinking for ourselves" can be fully applied and enjoyed.
Now we must honor this gift of freedom and use it for the best purposes... as serving one another in love and by being good examples to others. If everybody followed this basic rule "“Love your neighbor as yourself” ... no matter who the neighbour is... there would be a LOT less problems on earth. Love is really what can make this world a better place. My love to you all.
According Sarahli well said. ! loyalfan Happy Birthday!!
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Michael says in his song just Martin Luther. So one can believe he was speaking of Martin Luther King Jr. or Martin Luther. So, when one person says
SoldierofLOVE
Perhaps it is my own bias, but I cannot relate well to anyone who says they have a personal relationship with Christ, yet they cannot express basic decency, respect and humanity for “the least of these” or for those who practice a different faith tradition. In my opinion, Martin Luther did not practice LOVE and ultimately his beliefs veer far from the teachings of Jesus or Michael Jackson’s and Dr. King’s message of faith, hope, charity and justice for all.
And another person believes
But Martin Luther was the beginning of the Protestant church. All of the western world would still be Catholic if not for him. Jesus taught an exclusive belief system, believe in Him or...
MJ here through TS and Dr. King speak ONLY of selfless love for your neighbour regardless of belief.
If people were to get into a discussion on it, like what it has produced here, regardless of how it is interpreted by either parties, the statements from both of you are not a lie. Therefore it shows us that the words in the original statement were manipulated in a way to leave an open interpretation. One has the freedom to believe what they want to believe based on their own interpretations. It also, in a way, forces you to look at how the statement can be seen from both sides. If Martin Luther taught that the Bible is the only source of divinely revealed knowledge and MLK spread the message of faith and justice for all we can see that the name Martin Luther could have a double meaning. In the aspect of how it plays into the hoax, since it was Jermaine that announced Michael’s death and not a doctor, most in the world interpreted that as being the truth that the Michael Jackson associated with him had died. But since it was not the doctor that announced it and he did not sign the death certificate of the real Michael Jackson, all of us here interpret that as him still being alive. We also have the different names used on the coroner’s report and the autopsy report. So when he did announce that Michael Jackson had died, and it was the terminally ill person that had his name changed, he was not lying. He left it open for everyone’s own interpretation. We could do this with everything that has happened because no body knows for sure what exactly happened. When everyone is in court and they are under oath of the bible being asked questions about the real Michael Jackson, they can give their honest answers of what happened prior to his hospital visit. If he indeed made himself sick that day by having Dr. Murray and himself administer the drugs to send him to the hospital that means everything that took place DID happen. Nobody is really lying if their answers are left with an open interpretation. AND since in the court of LAW the bible is used to get those to tell the truth, and the bible is the only source of divinely revealed knowledge and it says the whole LAW can be summed up as love your neighbor as you love thyself, they are not doing anything against the law. But this is just my interpretation.
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Galatians 5:14
For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
No way, my neighbor is an asocial sour a**hole :evil:
Happy b-day Loyalfan!
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlqTG1jhDQH5YbfEypvdi3wohYVWpJv9pVz3h133LGzZnR25vqsg)
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Open your heart to God
In order to do that, first we need to define and agree on the concept of God and why it is neccesary for our existance to have the concept of God.
So far, after all that I have read, the concept of God is too abstract.
Civil, moral and ethic rules are shown in the bible (also in the Qurán and other religious philosophy), all based in being a good samaritan able to live within peace accepting rules and patterns of behaviour, at times based on fear and at times based on pure conditioning.
At the end, the aim is to achieve being a better person for yourself and others around you.
Do we need an outer reason (God) for that?
The truth is that the concept of God covers many fields. It is the resort for everything, but still, imo, it is placebo.
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Open your heart to God
In order to do that, first we need to define and agree on the concept of God and why it is neccesary for our existance to have the concept of God.
So far, after all that I have read, the concept of God is too abstract.
Civil, moral and ethic rules are shown in the bible (also in the Qurán and other religious philosophy), all based in being a good samaritan able to live within peace accepting rules and patterns of behaviour, at times based on fear and at times based on pure conditioning.
At the end, the aim is to achieve being a better person for yourself and others around you.
Do we need an outer reason (God) for that?
The truth is that the concept of God covers many fields. It is the resort for everything, but still, imo, it is placebo.
You are giving me a hard time Gema :lol: the problem is that as far as I remember I always believed in God and was never teached any concept of God, it's like it was innate in me and my faith just evolved with time. If I give you the description of what I believe is God, like the Creator of all things, you included ;) , will it be enough for you? Maybe not you will ask for proofs and I will answer everything around you and you will say :shock: LOL
We don't have to agree and define I think because this is God Himself who will guide you, not me or anyone else. So open your heart to God can mean study the question don't be oblivious about it and close your heart to the possibility. Because a lot of people just don't look further but I know Gema that you do look further, so in a sense you are aleady opening your heart to this avenue.
At the end, the aim is to achieve being a better person for yourself and others around you.
Do we need an outer reason (God) for that?
Absolutely, I need God to guide me and without God we would not be here in the first place, He created us, He is not an outer reason for me but a part of me. Well maybe that it does not make much sense for you yet. I hope you will find God, He is closer to you than you could ever imagine and only wants the good for you.
About the rules in the scriptures ... think about someone who creates a company, the director will certainly create certain rules so that the company is managed properly for its benefit or the company will sink, so the same with the company Earth :D.
God bless you Gema (I know you love that ;) ).
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY Loyalfan. :)
Thanx TS for the redirect :lol:
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thankyou all so much xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx as you can see.its all about love for others xxxxxxxxxxxxx[attachment=0:8r3ldl4v]OgAAANl8WHAFcKoZ8ARc4qMIyL_B7M1fsGKXWOSsIG7BUrAvomrsasI27e-x3dUbACpy5WIuGfd_-DH2MA4yjk5d5q8Am1T1UJmNgy5715NiSDGHJQ3TZ0mLvtin.jpg[/attachment:8r3ldl4v]
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Happy Birthday Loyalfan! And thanks TS for the redirect.
Love You More TS :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Happy birthday loyalfan and thanks for the lovely pictures :D
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For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
No way, my neighbor is an asocial sour a**hole :evil:
[/quote]
first I have to laugh :lol: :lol: :lol:
second, Gema.......what do you think we have to do about this kind of neighbors?
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be as tolerant as we can,we dont have to be best buddies,but we do have to be civil......................imo ..lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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I've been a fellow investigator on here since 2009, and I've asked this before, and got no answer I can find. When I google my question it tells me Souza. So, someone tell me who is this TS???? Thanks
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i dont think anyone can be 100% sure who TS is....................its like dod on f/book .....everyone on there talks as if they are talking to michael...........could be a wind up merchant for all we know...................curiouser and curiouser..............xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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But, which poster is TS on here? I don't see anyone with the name TS....and, is it someone claiming to know, knew or be in touch with Michael? Why do we put any faith in this person over you or I? Just wondering if that's the go to person and I've been missing out on info.
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be as tolerant as we can,we dont have to be best buddies,but we do have to be civil......................imo ..lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
That's true. It should be as simple as that if our complicated psychologies and the need for transference don't get too much in the way. Relationship and identity are complex endeavors. Ultimately, we need each other. We can't do this by ourselves.
And, Happy Birthday!
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Happy B'day to you hun! :mrgreen:
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But, which poster is TS on here? I don't see anyone with the name TS....and, is it someone claiming to know, knew or be in touch with Michael? Why do we put any faith in this person over you or I? Just wondering if that's the go to person and I've been missing out on info.
Link to TS profile.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1440 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1440)
and here are all TS's posts:
search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts)
Start from the bottom (the oldest post) and work your way up.
Hope this helps!
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"Don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature..." We could discuss the meaning of this for days!
As a clinical psychologist, (and sometimes a cynical one :) ), I naturally think in those terms tempered by my Christian faith, spirituality and San Francisco Bay upbringing (flower children unite!) I remembered that the famed psychoanalyst Erik Erikson wrote a book about Martin Luther.
(http://images.bookbyte.com/isbn.aspx?isbn=9780393310368)
If you have ever used the term 'identity crisis' you have psychologist Erik Erikson to thank - he invented the term.
Erikson's focus on identity was shaped by his own background. The product of a brief affair between his married Jewish mother, Karla Abrahamsen, and an unidentified Danish man, the author grew up in Germany as Erik Homberger, the surname of his physician stepfather. At school he was teased for being Jewish, while at the synagogue he was pilloried for his 'Nordic god' appearance: tall, blonde and blue-eyed. When three half-sisters came along, this only intensified his feeling of being an outsider. In his late thirties, upon taking up US citizenship, Homberger changed his surname to 'Erikson', that is, son of himself.
While Erikson paid particular attention to the formation of identity in adolescence, his great contribution was to note that the question 'Who am I?' will for the average person raise itself many times over the course of a lifetime. Freud had identified five stages of psychological development from infancy to the teenage years, but Erikson went further to cover the whole 'life cycle', with eight 'psychosocial' stages from birth to old age. As one stage ends, we experience a crisis when our identity comes into question, and at these points we can choose either growth or stagnation. Each choice, he said, lays another cornerstone in the structure of the adult personality. In fully appreciating the intensity of these turning points, Erikson shattered the myth that life after we turn 20 is one long flat line of stability.
Erikson is famous for another reason. Although Freud had written a celebrated study of Leonardo da Vinci, it was Erikson's books on Gandhi and Martin Luther that established a new genre, 'psychobiography', or the application of psychological analysis to famous people's lives.
In Luther he found an example of identity crisis par excellence.
The Luther story in brief
Though hard to understand now, the Christian Europe of Luther's childhood and adolescence was preoccupied with the 'Last Judgment', a final accounting of one's life in which all sins would be balanced against the good. People lived in fear of going to Hell, and prayed relentlessly for the souls of those who had died. Public torture of criminals was common, as was caning and whipping of children in school. The theme of life was total obedience: to one's elders, to the Church, to God.
Into this “world-mood of guilt and sadness” as Erikson describes it, Martin Luther was born (1483). His father had come from peasant stock, but through hard work had become a small capitalist with an ownership stake in a mine. Through great thrift, Hans Luther had created a nest egg for his son's education. Martin would become a high-ranking lawyer, thereby vaulting the family out of its humble origins forever. He duly went to Latin school and did well, and at 17 entered university. In 1505 he graduated and enrolled in law school.
But while at home for the summer break, Martin was almost struck by lightning during a thunderstorm. Already having misgivings about the life path laid out for him, he took the event as a sign and vowed to become a monk. His parents were devastated, but in 1501 he entered the Augustinian monastery at Erfurt.
At first, all went well, as he enjoyed the holy atmosphere of the monastery. However, like any young man he was tempted by sexual thoughts and consumed by guilt. As the many Luther biographers tell it, he had some kind of panicked fit in the choir of his monastery church, crying out, 'I am not!' Erickson sees the event as indicating a classic identity crisis. He had left behind the secular career (not to mention marriage) his father had so wanted him to follow; yet now, after a promising 'Godly' beginning, the monastery path now seemed wrong as well, despite his desperate efforts to cling to his vows. He was caught in a terrible no man's land of identity. Whatever he thought he was, it is painfully clear he was not.
Yet Martin stayed with the Church, ascending quickly. He became a Doctor of Theology, and by 1515 was a vicar in charge of eleven monasteries. All the time, though, a gap was growing between his understanding of genuine spiritual faith and his perception of the Church. According to medieval Catholic doctrine, sins required some kind of worldly punishment, which could be alleviated by doing 'good works'. Even this responsibility could be sidestepped by the purchase of 'indulgences', pieces of paper sold by the Church that poured money in its coffers. Yet this issue was just the tip of the iceberg for Luther. Quite radically, he had come to the belief that the authority of the Bible (the 'Word') was far more important than the authority of an institution.
Things came to a head when, in October 1517, he nailed a document – the famous 95 Theses – to the door of Wittenburg Cathedral, outlining the areas where the Church had to reform. The document was a bombshell, but might never have had the impact it did were it not for the recent invention of the printing press, which enabled this and Luther's later writings to be spread far and wide. Anyone, from peasant to prince, who had a gripe with the status quo, now had a focus. Luther became a celebrity, and his rebellion sparked off the Reformation.
Erikson's interpretation
If Luther became the great rebel who changed the face of religion and the world, what took him so long? Rebellion is usually manifested in one's younger years, but Luther was 34 by the time he properly spoke out against the Church.
Erikson's explanation is that young people must first believe in something intensely before they turn against it, and Luther was desperate to believe in the Church's divine authority. He may never have become the Church's most vocal critic unless he had first gone through the experience of complete devotion and attachment. Erikson comments that great figures in history often spend years in a passive state. From a young age they may feel that they will create a big stamp on the world, but unconsciously wait for their particular truth to form itself in their minds, until they can make the most impact at the right time. This was the case with Luther.
Erikson gives much space to a psychoanalytical discussion of Luther's relationships with his father. He surmises that Martin's courage in standing up to the Holy Roman Church can only be understood in the context of his initial disobedience to his father. Perhaps surprisingly, Erikson suggests Luther was not rebellious by nature (in fact in many ways he was reactionary), but having once disobeyed the major figure in his life, this put him on a trajectory of disobedience.
Erikson's most intriguing point is that, yes, Luther changed the world via his theological position, but that position was the result of the working out of his own personal demons and identity crises. Was he Luther the good monk, Luther the good son, or Luther the great reformer?
His need to work through his own neuroses relating to guilt, combined with a deep feeling for justice, resulted in a deep personal conviction that happened to be writ large on history.
Erikson likens major identity crises to a 'second birth', an idea he got from William James. While the once-born person 'rather painlessly fit themselves and are fitted into the ideology of their age', twice-born people are often tortured souls who seek healing in some total conversion experience that will give them direction. The positive aspect of the twice-born is that if they do successfully transform themselves, they have the potential to take the world along with them. It took a while for Luther to work out who he was, but once he had not even the Pope could stop him.
The importance of time out
Erikson considered it extremely important whether or not a society is able to accommodate youthful identity crisis. He wrote about the concept of 'moratorium', a period of time or an experience that a culture deliberately creates so a young person can 'find themselves' before embarking on proper adulthood. Today, a person may take a 'gap year' between finishing school and starting college. In Luther's time a period in the monastery gave many young men an opportunity to decide 'what one is and is going to be'.
What would have happened if Martin had done what his father wanted and entered the legal profession? He may have done well in a conventional sense, but never fulfilled his potential.
Erikson remarks that the real crisis in a person's life often comes in their late twenties, when they realize they are overcommitted to some path they feel is 'not them', even if they entered it enthusiastically in the first place. Their very success has put them into a hole that may require all their psychological strength to climb out of.
Erikson's broader point is that if you have a culture in which at certain vital junctures, people feel pressured to choose stagnation over growth, society at large will suffer. All wise cultures acknowledge the youthful identity crisis and seek to accommodate it. Though troublesome in the short term, the new ideas and energies that are unleashed by these personal turning points can bring rejuvenation, not just to he person experiencing it but to the wider community.
Luther's final crisis
Even at the height of his fame and power, Luther was still writing to his father trying to defend and justify his actions – and like his dad, in middle age and later he became something of a reactionary. The firebrand ended up in middle-class comfort, defending Germany's system of princely government and urging the peasants to accept their station in life. In outlook and habits, he remained a 'provincial' rather than a super-worldly figure. He became just as his father had wanted him to be: influential, well off, married.
You would have thought this would be the happiest time in Luther's life. In fact it ushered in what Erikson calls the mature adult crisis of 'generativity', in which one asks, has whatever I have created been worth it? Would I do it all over again, or have I wasted my years? Luther's first crisis was of pure identity; this one, Erikson notes, was of integrity. Despite being a 'great man', Luther still had to go through this phase, as every older adult inevitably does.
Erikson's point is that the issue of identity is never completely solved. When one aspect of us achieves wholeness, there is still some larger self that is trying to make sense of experience. Luther's life might be characterized as a succession of statements to himself of 'what he is not'. That, in a way, is the easy half of identity formation. We are still left with the task of deciding what we are.
Final word
How a person changes their conception of themselves over a lifetime is one of the most intriguing questions in psychology, because identity – who or what we know ourselves to be, or at least hope we are - is so fundamental.
There is a tendency to belittle someone going through an identity crisis, to emphasize the 'normality' of it. Yet Erikson's observation of Luther could be said of all of us in the same position: “He acts as if mankind were starting all over with his own beginning as an individual...To him, history ends as well as starts with him...” This may sound like the self-absorption of the adolescent, yet at all ages a person must come to some kind of resolution about where they stand in relation to the world. Unless society does what it can to assist successful passage through the major life turning points, not only will the cost be mental illness, but also the loss of potential.
The obvious danger of psychobiography is that you can read too much into a person's childhood and its effect on later life. However, the connection that Erikson makes between a severe childhood and domineering father on the one hand, and the tenor of the times in which Luther lived, is convincing. He shows that Luther's personal crises could not be separated from the social changes happening around him, and that the whole Reformation could be seen as Luther's personal issues getting worked out on a global scale. It was his own conscience, for instance, that drove him to reposition the Church as secondary to a person's direct relationship with God. And as a true believer, Luther's insistence on faith above 'good works' also reshaped Christendom.
Psychology matters, Erikson was trying to say, because history is essentially the acting out of individual psychologies.
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thankyou all so much xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx as you can see.its all about love for others xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wow loyalfan, I LOVE your hair!! :D
Also, what an adorable little baby! <3
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lilwendy...thanks for the info...reading now :)
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I love this! Thanks TS! Happy MLK Day. :)
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You are giving me a hard time Gema :lol:
Ooopppps, thorry :P
If I give you the description of what I believe is God, like the Creator of all things, you included ;) , will it be enough for you?
Yes, if that is your answer to me :)
So open your heart to God can mean study the question don't be oblivious about it and close your heart to the possibility. Because a lot of people just don't look further but I know Gema that you do look further, so in a sense you are aleady opening your heart to this avenue.
I get your point :D
God bless you Gema (I know you love that ;) ).
:D Thanks, blessings back
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first I have to laugh :lol: :lol: :lol:
second, Gema.......what do you think we have to do about this kind of neighbors?
this----->(http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/free-fighting-smileys-395%5B1%5D.gif)
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"Don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature..." We could discuss the meaning of this for days!
How a person changes their conception of themselves over a lifetime is one of the most intriguing questions in psychology, because identity – who or what we know ourselves to be, or at least hope we are - is so fundamental.
My view of it ;)
Although there are ways in which persons are similar, each person (in the Gestalt approach) is distinct, significantly different from all others, and perceives the world in unique ways. Each person is valued and respected as is; and any changes for that person are dictated and limited by what that person knows and wants.
So, what are we talking about? Awareness!
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lilwendy...thanks for the info...reading now :)
You're welcome! See you in a week! hahahaha just kidding... see you in two days! :D
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first I have to laugh :lol: :lol: :lol:
second, Gema.......what do you think we have to do about this kind of neighbors?
this----->(http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/free-fighting-smileys-395%5B1%5D.gif)
Gema!!! :lol: You are priceless!!! :lol:
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suspicious mind, I enjoyed the song you posted!
SoldierofLove
Psychology matters, Erikson was trying to say, because history is essentially the acting out of individual psychologies.
I agree, we are all complex creations, and we each have ripples that go out from us, touching everything else around us. Martin Luther was acting upon the influences God had placed in his life, and the personality God gave him. We are all a part of each other, whether we like it or not. And we are all in God.
by Gema » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:45 am
Sarahli wrote:Open your heart to God
In order to do that, first we need to define and agree on the concept of God and why it is neccesary for our existance to have the concept of God.
So far, after all that I have read, the concept of God is too abstract.
Civil, moral and ethic rules are shown in the bible (also in the Qurán and other religious philosophy), all based in being a good samaritan able to live within peace accepting rules and patterns of behaviour, at times based on fear and at times based on pure conditioning.
At the end, the aim is to achieve being a better person for yourself and others around you.
Do we need an outer reason (God) for that?
The truth is that the concept of God covers many fields. It is the resort for everything, but still, imo, it is placebo.
My math son says that also, that when we're stumped or can't figure out something then man inserts the word "God" and then the problem is solved. I like Albert Einstein's words, "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." I think as long as you are happy and wanting to help others around you to be happy, then what you believe is fine. What a person believes has absolutely no effect on God or whether He exists or not. He will go on existing and doing His things as He always has and always will. I believe it is Him who lives and moves in you to make you think the way you are thinking. So just go on being you!! If or when God/The Creator chooses to give you a :idea: moment, that's great too. JMO
by GINAFELICIA » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:23 pm
Gema wrote: For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
No way, my neighbor is an asocial sour a**hole
first I have to laugh
second, Gema.......what do you think we have to do about this kind of neighbors?
:lol: I'm sure most of us were chuckling also. I just have to look in the mirror to start to find people I'm not totally happy with! But Gina you said we need to start by loving ourselves before we can love others. I believe Michael struggled with that very much, truly loving the way he looked, the life he'd been given by God. I remember hearing him talking to himself in the 2003 Gary, Indiana visit video, and he said, "I don't like my smile, but if you want me to I'll smile for you." :cry: So Gina I don't know what to do about ornery people such as at my job, except be like Michael with the media, smile/be kind and walk away.
Good redirect TS, because it is at the crux of the matter, including all our words on this forum. We are all neighbours here!
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Michael said his message was simple. Jesus gave a simple message...LOVE. Jesus said if you only love those who love you, what reward is there. It is easy to love someone as long as they agree and treat you the way you want to be treated, but that is not true love. Jesus said love one another as I have loved you. If not for the love of Christ we would not stand a chance on this earth. It is by God's grace that we are live..period.
The point in the last two redirects is this. Martin Luther taught the message of Grace which is that we only have to call upon the name of the Lord and believe in what took place on the cross when Jesus died for our sins. Jesus said I came not to destroy the law (10 commandments) but to full fill it. Jesus was the only human being on earth that was capable of living by the ten commandments. Thus he full filled the law. He in turn gave us two commandments, to Love God and love one another. If we do those two things, the commandments are covered. Jesus knew man would always make mistakes but his sacrafice on the cross opened the door to direct communication with God.
God sent Jesus to show us how to live life and to understand our hurt and sorrow. Jesus was the spirit of God in a human body. So when he says he is the only way, it is infact the only way to the Heavenly Father because the Father dwelt in Jesus. Jesus is not a belief system, he was sent by God to bring salvation to mankind. No religion can do that, which is why the churches have been in effective. Love is Jesus and Jesus is Love. That is why Michael sang of us Loving one another and bringing salvation back.
The law was given to Moses as a barrometer to show us our short commings in what God expected of us. The children of Israel told God they could do any and everything he required of him, but when Moses went up to the mountain and was given the commandments, by the time he came down they had built a golden calf and was worshipping it.
They had already broken the commandment that said, thou shalt have no other Gods before me. But Jesus gave us freedom from condemnation of not abiding by the law and if we slip up we can go directly to the Father and talk with him and ask forgiveness, there was no more need for sacrifice on an alter. And that gave man the freedom to communicate directly with God.
Evil can not come into Gods presence so when we accept Jesus Christ we can go to the Father because he no longer see us as evil but as righteousness. That is freedom, and today's redirect is telling us not to take this freedom as a license to commit sin thinking it is no big deal, but to take this freedom that we have because of the Love Jesus has for us and use it to show Love to others unconditionally, just the way we are loved by our Heavenly Father.
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Good post, Victoria, well said. :) Thank you, TS, for this timely redirect. God bless you.
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by GINAFELICIA » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:23 pm
Gema wrote: For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
No way, my neighbor is an asocial sour a**hole
first I have to laugh
second, Gema.......what do you think we have to do about this kind of neighbors?
:lol: I'm sure most of us were chuckling also. I just have to look in the mirror to start to find people I'm not totally happy with! But Gina you said we need to start by loving ourselves before we can love others. I believe Michael struggled with that very much, truly loving the way he looked, the life he'd been given by God. I remember hearing him talking to himself in the 2003 Gary, Indiana visit video, and he said, "I don't like my smile, but if you want me to I'll smile for you." :cry: So Gina I don't know what to do about ornery people such as at my job, except be like Michael with the media, smile/be kind and walk away.
MJonmind it is not me who said it but BlackJack..... and I think it is true.
I do not believe Michael didn't like his smile..... it was probably one of those PR things of him.....he has the most beautiful smile in the world.... he even smiles with his eyes
What to do about ornery people...... you know I've noticed something with people around....... if you smile to them they will smile back to you......and then they will feel compelled to be nice to you......the most of them...... I guess we must give a little credit even to the most stubborn ones.....
Gemaaaaaaa........ I guess it's OK to do that to your neighbor here.... just don't actualy try it please.....
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Michael said his message was simple. Jesus gave a simple message...LOVE. Jesus said if you only love those who love you, what reward is there. It is easy to love someone as long as they agree and treat you the way you want to be treated, but that is not true love. Jesus said love one another as I have loved you. If not for the love of Christ we would not stand a chance on this earth. It is by God's grace that we are live..period.
The point in the last two redirects is this. Martin Luther taught the message of Grace which is that we only have to call upon the name of the Lord and believe in what took place on the cross when Jesus died for our sins. Jesus said I came not to destroy the law (10 commandments) but to full fill it. Jesus was the only human being on earth that was capable of living by the ten commandments. Thus he full filled the law. He in turn gave us two commandments, to Love God and love one another. If we do those two things, the commandments are covered. Jesus knew man would always make mistakes but his sacrafice on the cross opened the door to direct communication with God.
God sent Jesus to show us how to live life and to understand our hurt and sorrow. Jesus was the spirit of God in a human body. So when he says he is the only way, it is infact the only way to the Heavenly Father because the Father dwelt in Jesus. Jesus is not a belief system, he was sent by God to bring salvation to mankind. No religion can do that, which is why the churches have been in effective. Love is Jesus and Jesus is Love. That is why Michael sang of us Loving one another and bringing salvation back.
The law was given to Moses as a barrometer to show us our short commings in what God expected of us. The children of Israel told God they could do any and everything he required of him, but when Moses went up to the mountain and was given the commandments, by the time he came down they had built a golden calf and was worshipping it.
They had already broken the commandment that said, thou shalt have no other Gods before me. But Jesus gave us freedom from condemnation of not abiding by the law and if we slip up we can go directly to the Father and talk with him and ask forgiveness, there was no more need for sacrifice on an alter. And that gave man the freedom to communicate directly with God.
Evil can not come into Gods presence so when we accept Jesus Christ we can go to the Father because he no longer see us as evil but as righteousness. That is freedom, and today's redirect is telling us not to take this freedom as a license to commit sin thinking it is no big deal, but to take this freedom that we have because of the Love Jesus has for us and use it to show Love to others unconditionally, just the way we are loved by our Heavenly Father.
Word!! :D
What you just wrote is THE TRUTH and the truth shall set us FREE.
L.O.V.E
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@ soldieroflove... your post was extemely interesting. I did not read the rest of the thread but I had to respond to you. You are a member from another country and it was very interesting to me to see what you have been taught about Martin Luther King . I am Canadian but as we live nextdoor to the elephant we see what they say.
I was blown away by your insight into an American hero and his family and what you were taught and what you see, and you have given me a new way to see this national hero and his son. I am impressed by your thoughts and you have given me much to think about. Thanks for that !! Hero worship can sometimes be a strange thing. Just my opinion folks and cheers.
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@ soldieroflove... your post was extemely interesting. I did not read the rest of the thread but I had to respond to you. You are a member from another country and it was very interesting to me to see what you have been taught about Martin Luther King . I am Canadian but as we live nextdoor to the elephant we see what they say.
I was blown away by your insight into an American hero and his family and what you were taught and what you see, and you have given me a new way to see this national hero and his son. I am impressed by your thoughts and you have given me much to think about. Thanks for that !! Hero worship can sometimes be a strange thing. Just my opinion folks and cheers.
Hi Lovely Lurker,
I'm not sure if you're speaking of the same person that I am? Just to make sure we're speaking about the same person, Martin Luther, the German 16th Century church reformer is a different person from the African American Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., leader and civil rights activist of the 20th century. I believe that in this particular thread I was speaking of Martin Luther of the 16th Century.
I have the utmost respect and reverence for Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. who's birthday we celebrated yesterday as a national holiday in the U.S.
And, while I do recognize the signficant contributions to church reform by Martin Luther, I see him as a controversial figure. There are a lot of interesting and varying comments throughout this thread about him.
However, your point is well-taken regarding "hero worship".
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@SoldierofLOVE: Thanks for the connection to Erikson (Clinical social worker waving hi to clinical psychologist...and yes, the cynical, goes for me, too..lol). As you can see from my signature- Erikson is on my mind a lot.
Happy belated birthday, loyalfan! Thanks you for sharing the great pictures.
And of course, thank you TS- what a great message on yesterday's day of service. And yes, it goes back to loving ourselves as a basis to reaching out and loving others. It's about recognizing the potential for change that lives in all of us. Changes we make can affect those around us in amazing ways.
One more thing this post made me think of (having just come from a V thread..)- Freedom-Independence- "See you in July."