Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TMZ.com => Michael Jackson News => TMZ Articles => Topic started by: ForstAMoon on February 22, 2011, 09:21:42 AM
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MJ Music Video Shoot Takes Over Hollywood (http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/22/michael-jackson-music-video-shoot-hollywood-tonight-sony-song-film)
2/22/2011 7:00 AM PST by TMZ Staff
The ghost of Michael Jackson upstaged the "Rock of Ages" show in Hollywood last night.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/22/0222-mj-video-credit.jpg) (http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=b28a39c3-eb15-462a-9b64-2b48781831f2)
Sources tell TMZ Sony is currently shooting two Michael Jackson videos in Hollywood -- the one above is a music video for "Hollywood Tonight."
It wasn't exactly being shot on the down-low .... a crew of 60 lined the sidewalk and the street in front of the Pantages Theatre.
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Oh, I love the first comment on the article, whoever this person is, believer or not, the comment is just to the point :lol:
"Uh, isn't he dead?"
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Nice dancemoves!! :D
Who is this person? :shock:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2hxspol.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2w51u87.jpg)
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Good you asked. I was feeling pity for myself watching the video wondering who could be MJ :lol:
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2/22/2011 7:00 AM PST by TMZ Staff
It's really interesting that they post it exactly at 7:00. ;)
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I hate to see these videos without him in but I hope we can find some clues in it too.
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Michael Jackson is the only artist who, after almost 2 years of his "death" for some is always news. :lol:
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by Victor
Nice dancemoves!! :D
Who is this person? :shock:
Watch this video starting at 5:50. Dancing starts around 6:20. Watch the "old guy" in the black suit and white shirt and tie. (in the fourth row behind Travis) Same "old guy" as in this MJ Music Video Shoot? ;)
[youtube:1s6qxg65]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAtZVB8Nkg#t=05m50s[/youtube:1s6qxg65]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAtZVB8Nkg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAtZVB8Nkg)
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Thats the happy pensioner :lol:
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Nice dancemoves!! :D
Who is this person? :shock:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2hxspol.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2w51u87.jpg)
It looks like the old man from this TDCAU Drill. What do you think??
http://www.toofab.com/videos?autoplay=t ... reURL=true (http://www.toofab.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=c85153e1-6fc7-40cd-b18c-5c0627d94328&isShareURL=true)
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by Victor
Nice dancemoves!! :D
Who is this person? :shock:
Watch this video starting at 5:50. Dancing starts around 6:20. Watch the "old guy" in the black suit and white shirt and tie. (in the fourth row behind Travis) Same "old guy" as in this MJ Music Video Shoot? ;)
[youtube:z63kt136]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAtZVB8Nkg#t=05m50s[/youtube:z63kt136]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAtZVB8Nkg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAtZVB8Nkg)
I don't think that guy is an old guy. He is wearing a white hat. His moves doesn't look like an old guy. And plus he is too tall to be Michael. I do not think that the old dude on the new video is Michael either. People are definitely having an MJ double and seeing MJ in everyone paranoia.
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.
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2/22/2011 7:00 AM PST by TMZ Staff
It's really interesting that they post it exactly at 7:00. ;)
And the video is 1:06
The old guy seems to have a nice smile and that girl in black is actually really good, I like her.
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Maybe it´s him maybe not who knows, but he really moves well for an old person :D :D !
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.
That´s not paranoia
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Maybe it´s him maybe not who knows, but he really moves well for an old person :D :D !
On my way searching for a video where MJ is clapping :D The old guy on the 1st video claps also in an unusual way.
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thats not michael, he's too tall to be michael
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Maybe it´s him maybe not who knows, but he really moves well for an old person :D :D !
He's NOT an old person. He's wearing a white hat.
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.
That´s not paranoia
You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.
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There is something odd about the old man's clothing though.
Who dresses like that nowadays??
This looks like Michael's version of what an old man should look like to me! Looks like a Michael
creation! :lol:
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What is the problem of finding who is Michael? If it's a video of Michael, then Michael may be in it. Disguised, of course! ;)
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You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.
That´s not paranoia
You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.
Yes, it matters that you use the name of a psychotic disorder to label people not even understanding what it means.
And please, refrain from addressing people the way you are doing and respect others point of views on theories and researches regarding doubles.
It is very easy to make your point clear without falling in being unrespectful to your "fellow hoaxers"
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There is something odd about the old man's clothing though.
Who dresses like that nowadays??
This looks like Michael's version of what an old man should look like to me! Looks like a Michael
creation! :lol:
Also, mean time everyone is dancing, the man is on the phone, smiling. It kept my attention the first time I watched the video. Is an "odd" character for sure.
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Well whoever he is, for the only old guy he dances extremely well, dresses goofy with his pants dragging on the ground??, sweat band over gray hair??, and looks amazingly like the guy at the Laker's game sitting beside Prince. Height perception can a relative thing, depending on the height of the people around him. 8-) :lol: 8-)[attachment=1:2qvke40f]Lakers guy.jpg[/attachment:2qvke40f][attachment=0:2qvke40f]old man, mc hammer flash mob.jpg[/attachment:2qvke40f]
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Well whoever he is, for the only old guy he dances extremely well, dresses goofy with his pants dragging on the ground??, sweat band over gray hair??, and looks amazingly like the guy at the Laker's game sitting beside Prince. Height perception can a relative thing, depending on the height of the people around him. 8-) :lol: 8-)[attachment=1:3nlo3xo6]Lakers guy.jpg[/attachment:3nlo3xo6][attachment=0:3nlo3xo6]old man, mc hammer flash mob.jpg[/attachment:3nlo3xo6]
That man looks "real" :lol: can´t be MJ in disguise.
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I also Michael remember a time when I went in the record store and there was this man purchasing a lot of cds. And he would go and grab another batch of cds. He was an older gentleman, he had short afro but crooked teeth, his clothes were rumpled. I walked up behind him and said: “Michael, what are you doing in this store?”. He turned to me and said: “Marlon, how did you know it was me?”. I told him: “You are my brother, I can spot you anywhere regardless of your make-up. I know your walk, I know your body language and those shoes did not help.” Michael wore the same shoes wherever we went.
Busted! And I am not paranoia, I am just calling it as I see it. The dude is way too prominent in that video and those shoes did not help... :lol:
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:lol: the shoes!!
BTW, the girl in the front row dances great!
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Well whoever he is, for the only old guy he dances extremely well, dresses goofy with his pants dragging on the ground??, sweat band over gray hair??, and looks amazingly like the guy at the Laker's game sitting beside Prince. Height perception can a relative thing, depending on the height of the people around him. 8-) :lol: 8-)[attachment=1:8g81kqbs]Lakers guy.jpg[/attachment:8g81kqbs][attachment=0:8g81kqbs]old man, mc hammer flash mob.jpg[/attachment:8g81kqbs]
The old guy from the basketball game looks kind of like the old guy from the flash mobs. They have the same face shape and the same nose.
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There is something odd about the old man's clothing though.
Who dresses like that nowadays??
This looks like Michael's version of what an old man should look like to me! Looks like a Michael
creation! :lol:
:lol: exactly !
While watching the video I was thinking: OK where's MJ in disguise? ... the old man busy callin'???
Look at his height and posture, could be MJ. Or.. it's may be too obvious and we're supposed to think that MJ's the old man ;)
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I'm wondering why the same old guy seems to be involved in all these separate dances....how ironic is that??
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Oh dear! :lol: Silly Michael :D
These dancers are GREAT btw!!! :)
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He looks like an old Dave Dave :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Can anyone see what her button says????? Kinda reminds me of the Gilda button he wore. :D
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This is just great . See Michael, how much you loved..Come back please, we miss you.
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He looks like an old Dave Dave :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12092)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLLP-bop73lmuij3nRswWN_mqOBCyJa-8AJWMY3A0FGmjDQr2AvA&t=1)
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... Qr2AvA&t=1 (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLLP-bop73lmuij3nRswWN_mqOBCyJa-8AJWMY3A0FGmjDQr2AvA&t=1)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwM9WKlp-Tken_AhFqaZGZw9FM36HnioH9wtDioNR_0Xh_5q8Ifw)
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... 0Xh_5q8Ifw (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwM9WKlp-Tken_AhFqaZGZw9FM36HnioH9wtDioNR_0Xh_5q8Ifw)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNkINHZcozfS0t7CCP2_6xqkcpcFprD6smHjU4iZr9tWHQi5zS&t=1)
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... HQi5zS&t=1 (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNkINHZcozfS0t7CCP2_6xqkcpcFprD6smHjU4iZr9tWHQi5zS&t=1)
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b5qr-Zq4024/0.jpg)
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b5qr-Zq4024/0.jpg (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b5qr-Zq4024/0.jpg)
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Can anyone see what her button says????? Kinda reminds me of the Gilda button he wore. :D
I think this lower button is the same one she is wearing?
(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/88882810.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D09464DAADA62A9079D5AAFC3D408E62003449661600C5DFC6E30A760B0D811297)
http://www.life.com/image/88882810 (http://www.life.com/image/88882810)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/22/0222-mj-video-credit.jpg)
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/22/0222 ... credit.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/22/0222-mj-video-credit.jpg)
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you guys believe everybody is micheal huh? smh :roll:
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He looks like an old Dave Dave :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I immediately thought the same thing :lol:
This video is gonna be “hot"
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Man I was gonna write it looks like Dave Dave, but you all got me on it!!!
:D '
Honestly, why does this same guy keep showing up? He just travels around getting in on these spontaneous dances...does he set them up?? And how do all these same people know the dances? I couldn't, unfortunately after watching Michael for over 40 years, do one of those dances. And, all ages and sizes, they all get it!!
It can't be unless it's ALL the same people, a dance studio, maybe Michael's dancers?? Traveling around and this old guy is with the dance group?? RIGHT!
Dig dig dig...
Sometimes I just feel like the Bible says, Let go and let God.
Maybe I should just sit back and let Michael do what he is doing and be surprised.
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Who's that man on the right?? (at .57 on the video). He's just standing there, observing, hardly or not moving.
screenschot credits to Victor
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:lol: the shoes!!
BTW, the girl in the front row dances great!
Agree! :D
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And the old man in the cemetery the day funeral also had a mobile phone :lol:
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(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwM9WKlp-Tken_AhFqaZGZw9FM36HnioH9wtDioNR_0Xh_5q8Ifw)
He is just too adorable! Even dressed as this large white man, :lol:
Anyway, I like how they say "Takes Over" ;)
MJ [s:3do9fr6s]Music Video Shoot[/s:3do9fr6s] Takes Over Hollywood
;) :D
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.
That´s not paranoia
You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.
Yes, it matters that you use the name of a psychotic disorder to label people not even understanding what it means.
And please, refrain from addressing people the way you are doing and respect others point of views on theories and researches regarding doubles.
It is very easy to make your point clear without falling in being unrespectful to your "fellow hoaxers"
My point of view is, you are loosing it and started to see MJ in everyone. You respect mine then Gema. People started to think that it is a body double since it is MJ himself (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=256&t=17951 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=17975) and people started to see MJ in people who are not MJ in disguise. This is so ironic. That is the reason why I say you are loosing it. I do know Michael's disguises but not all these people are Michael. I'm sorry for using "paranoia". You are right about it. I shouldn't have labeled you guys. But seriously, my point is, everyone we think he is MJ is not MJ and everything we think it is related with the hoax, is not related with the hoax. We should make the difference.
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PureLove
I agree.
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Me too.
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I would like to know, if a man who wants to hoax his death, why would he disguise himself and go dancing with bunch of people. I think I would just leave somewhere far away. It is not him. Purlove is right , it is not paranoia, but we want to see MJ so much that we take anyone and make believe in our head that it is Michael. He is not Michael..
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Dude just had me waste 15 minutes of my life watching this video. :x
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Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.
Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/upl ... hael-2.jpg (http://homocinefilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/michael-2.jpg)
Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.
That´s not paranoia
You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.
Yes, it matters that you use the name of a psychotic disorder to label people not even understanding what it means.
And please, refrain from addressing people the way you are doing and respect others point of views on theories and researches regarding doubles.
It is very easy to make your point clear without falling in being unrespectful to your "fellow hoaxers"
Gema does it occur to you that some people in this forum English is not their first language? maybe you should cut them some slack. Thank you..
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We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc. The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot. He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory. Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey. I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves. ;)
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We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc. The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot. He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory. Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey. I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves. ;)
I myself really enjoy MJ disguise possibilities and see no harm in it. I'm convinced MJ was DD on LKL, blond lady at the Memorial, green man at the Olympics, Casket man and possibly others. MJ loves to wear disguises and has done so countless times throughout his life. He is a master at it, and has the money and staff to make them able to fool most people. He's said he loves to walk around normal people to see what they're thinking and feeling without being recognized. So I see no harm in speculation and investigation here. With each of the above disguises there was much discussion and annalysis on the forum before a conclusion could be made. This old man case has hardly been talked about and needs further investigation IMO.
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What comes to my mind about the The Old Man theory is a book by Ernest Hemingway called the Old Man and the Sea. I will copy and paste wikipedia a summary information on this book. It was one of Michael's favourites. What stood out to me in this synopsis is "Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world."
Plot summary
The Old Man and the Sea tells an epic battle between an old, experienced fisherman and a giant marlin. It opens by explaining that the fisherman, who is named Santiago, has gone 84 days without catching any fish at all. He is so unlucky that his young apprentice, Manolin, has been forbidden by his parents to sail with the old man and been ordered to fish with more successful fishermen. Still dedicated to the old man, however, the boy visits Santiago's shack each night, hauling back his fishing gear, getting him food and discussing American baseball and his favorite player Joe DiMaggio. Santiago tells Manolin that on the next day, he will venture far out into the Gulf to fish, confident that his unlucky streak is near its end.
Thus on the eighty-fifth day, Santiago sets out alone, taking his skiff far onto the Gulf. He sets his lines and, by noon of the first day, a big fish that he is sure is a marlin takes his bait. Unable to pull in the great marlin, Santiago instead finds the fish pulling his skiff. Two days and two nights pass in this manner, during which the old man bears the tension of the line with his body. Though he is wounded by the struggle and in pain, Santiago expresses a compassionate appreciation for his adversary, often referring to him as a brother. He also determines that because of the fish's great dignity, no one will be worthy of eating the marlin.
On the third day of the ordeal, the fish begins to circle the skiff, indicating his tiredness to the old man. Santiago, now completely worn out and almost in delirium, uses all the strength he has left in him to pull the fish onto its side and stab the marlin with a harpoon ending the long battle between the old man and the tenacious fish.
Santiago straps the marlin to the side of his skiff and heads home, thinking about the high price the fish will bring him at the market and how many people he will feed.
While Santiago continues his journey back to the shore, sharks are attracted to the trail of blood left by the marlin in the water. The first, a great mako shark, Santiago kills with his harpoon, losing that weapon in the process. He makes a new harpoon by strapping his knife to the end of an oar to help ward off the next line of sharks; in total, five sharks are slain and many others are driven away. But the sharks keep coming, and by nightfall the sharks have almost devoured the marlin's entire carcass, leaving a skeleton consisting mostly of its backbone, its tail and its head. Finally reaching the shore before dawn on the next day, he struggles on the way to his shack, carrying the heavy mast on his shoulder. Once home, he slumps onto his bed and falls into a deep sleep.
A group of fishermen gather the next day around the boat where the fish's skeleton is still attached. One of the fishermen measures it to be 18 feet (5.5 m) from nose to tail. Tourists at the nearby café mistakenly take it for a shark. Manolin, worried during the old man's endeavor, cries upon finding him safe asleep. The boy brings him newspapers and coffee. When the old man wakes, they promise to fish together once again. Upon his return to sleep, Santiago dreams of his youth—of lions on an African beach.
Background and publication
Hemingway in 1939.Written in 1951, and published in 1952, The Old Man and the Sea is the final work published during Hemingway's lifetime. The book, dedicated to Hemingway's literary editor Maxwell Perkins,[2] was featured in Life Magazine on September 1, 1952, and five million copies of the magazine were sold in two days.[3] The Old Man and the Sea also became a Book-of-the Month selection, and made Hemingway a celebrity.[4] Published in book form on 1 September 1952, the first edition print run was 50,000 copies.[5] The novella received the Pulitzer Prize in May, 1952,[6] and was specifically cited when he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1954.[7][8] The success of The Old Man and the Sea made Hemingway an international celebrity.[4] The Old Man and the Sea is taught at schools around the world and continues to earn foreign royalties.[9]
“ No good book has ever been written that has in it symbols arrived at beforehand and stuck in. ... I tried to make a real old man, a real boy, a real sea and a real fish and real sharks. But if I made them good and true enough they would mean many things. ”
—Ernest Hemingway in 1954[10]
Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world. Possibly based on the character of Gregorio Fuentes, Hemingway had initially planned to use Santiago's story, which became The Old Man and the Sea, as part of an intimacy between mother and son and also the fact of relationships that cover most of the book relate to the Bible, which he referred to as "The Sea Book". (He also referred to the Bible as the "Sea of Knowledge" and other such things.) Some aspects of it did appear in the posthumously published Islands in the Stream. Positive feedback he received for On the Blue Water (Esquire, April 1936) led him to rewrite it as an independent work. The book is generally classified as a novella because it has no chapters or parts and is slightly longer than a short story.
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What comes to my mind about the The Old Man theory is a book by Ernest Hemingway called the Old Man and the Sea. I will copy and paste wikipedia a summary information on this book. It was one of Michael's favourites. What stood out to me in this synopsis is "Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world."
Plot summary
The Old Man and the Sea tells an epic battle between an old, experienced fisherman and a giant marlin. It opens by explaining that the fisherman, who is named Santiago, has gone 84 days without catching any fish at all. He is so unlucky that his young apprentice, Manolin, has been forbidden by his parents to sail with the old man and been ordered to fish with more successful fishermen. Still dedicated to the old man, however, the boy visits Santiago's shack each night, hauling back his fishing gear, getting him food and discussing American baseball and his favorite player Joe DiMaggio. Santiago tells Manolin that on the next day, he will venture far out into the Gulf to fish, confident that his unlucky streak is near its end.
Thus on the eighty-fifth day, Santiago sets out alone, taking his skiff far onto the Gulf. He sets his lines and, by noon of the first day, a big fish that he is sure is a marlin takes his bait. Unable to pull in the great marlin, Santiago instead finds the fish pulling his skiff. Two days and two nights pass in this manner, during which the old man bears the tension of the line with his body. Though he is wounded by the struggle and in pain, Santiago expresses a compassionate appreciation for his adversary, often referring to him as a brother. He also determines that because of the fish's great dignity, no one will be worthy of eating the marlin.
On the third day of the ordeal, the fish begins to circle the skiff, indicating his tiredness to the old man. Santiago, now completely worn out and almost in delirium, uses all the strength he has left in him to pull the fish onto its side and stab the marlin with a harpoon ending the long battle between the old man and the tenacious fish.
Santiago straps the marlin to the side of his skiff and heads home, thinking about the high price the fish will bring him at the market and how many people he will feed.
While Santiago continues his journey back to the shore, sharks are attracted to the trail of blood left by the marlin in the water. The first, a great mako shark, Santiago kills with his harpoon, losing that weapon in the process. He makes a new harpoon by strapping his knife to the end of an oar to help ward off the next line of sharks; in total, five sharks are slain and many others are driven away. But the sharks keep coming, and by nightfall the sharks have almost devoured the marlin's entire carcass, leaving a skeleton consisting mostly of its backbone, its tail and its head. Finally reaching the shore before dawn on the next day, he struggles on the way to his shack, carrying the heavy mast on his shoulder. Once home, he slumps onto his bed and falls into a deep sleep.
A group of fishermen gather the next day around the boat where the fish's skeleton is still attached. One of the fishermen measures it to be 18 feet (5.5 m) from nose to tail. Tourists at the nearby café mistakenly take it for a shark. Manolin, worried during the old man's endeavor, cries upon finding him safe asleep. The boy brings him newspapers and coffee. When the old man wakes, they promise to fish together once again. Upon his return to sleep, Santiago dreams of his youth—of lions on an African beach.
Background and publication
Hemingway in 1939.Written in 1951, and published in 1952, The Old Man and the Sea is the final work published during Hemingway's lifetime. The book, dedicated to Hemingway's literary editor Maxwell Perkins,[2] was featured in Life Magazine on September 1, 1952, and five million copies of the magazine were sold in two days.[3] The Old Man and the Sea also became a Book-of-the Month selection, and made Hemingway a celebrity.[4] Published in book form on 1 September 1952, the first edition print run was 50,000 copies.[5] The novella received the Pulitzer Prize in May, 1952,[6] and was specifically cited when he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1954.[7][8] The success of The Old Man and the Sea made Hemingway an international celebrity.[4] The Old Man and the Sea is taught at schools around the world and continues to earn foreign royalties.[9]
“ No good book has ever been written that has in it symbols arrived at beforehand and stuck in. ... I tried to make a real old man, a real boy, a real sea and a real fish and real sharks. But if I made them good and true enough they would mean many things. ”
—Ernest Hemingway in 1954[10]
Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world. Possibly based on the character of Gregorio Fuentes, Hemingway had initially planned to use Santiago's story, which became The Old Man and the Sea, as part of an intimacy between mother and son and also the fact of relationships that cover most of the book relate to the Bible, which he referred to as "The Sea Book". (He also referred to the Bible as the "Sea of Knowledge" and other such things.) Some aspects of it did appear in the posthumously published Islands in the Stream. Positive feedback he received for On the Blue Water (Esquire, April 1936) led him to rewrite it as an independent work. The book is generally classified as a novella because it has no chapters or parts and is slightly longer than a short story.
Thank you, Shelby. I really enjoyed reading this summary of the Old Man and the Sea.
I agree - even if that person is not Michael there is possibly a reason he keeps showing up. Either way, I find him fascinating and would like to know his story.
Blessings.
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Anyway, I like how they say "Takes Over" ;)
MJ [s:3ivf4653]Music Video Shoot[/s:3ivf4653] Takes Over Hollywood
;) :D
I was about to say the same...... Back's takeover...
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One thing that just struck me was when the paramedics made reference to Michael as being an old man and that they did not recognize him at first :shock: hmmm .... so the Old Man references goes right to the beginning when the ambulance is called. So are there parallels? Michael said he never wanted to grow old. Something to think about.
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I don't see any harm in looking closer at some people either, given it is being done respectfully. I acknowledge the thoughtfulness of putting a spot on several selected characters who serve as catalysts in grabbing our attention by some "misfit" and thus leading us to more insightful knowledge when questioning and researching.
It doesn't matter so much if the old man was MJ or a random stranger.
He was enjoying the scene, he was doing great and he was clearly focussed on in the video.
We are led into noticing and acknowledging details and interwoven features, we are being invited again and again into knowing more about a '"making of" process.
We are witnessing the "making" of "The Greatest Show on Earth" (which itself currently is already "The Greatest Show on Earth" for us travellers).
There is an outstanding twist of timelines and stories as in a litterature prize worthy novel, a true "making HIStory" creation project of never-to-be-forgotten detail and outcome. There are many helping hands writing that novel - knowingly or unknowingly.
Again and again I feel blessed to have been "called into" the VIP lounge for witnessing this dramaturgical masterpiece to unfold. I feel so sorry for all those who did not pay attention and did not question and do not listen or see and will never know about the "making of" in detail.
They may be shaken in their fundamentals one day.
I am grateful for this shower of love that we are being given repeatedly.
This old guy was acting a little bit too frenetic for the intervertebral disk issues he assumedly could have according to his potential age. ;) I like him a lot. :D
Thanks Michael. It's an awesome journey.
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I myself really enjoy MJ disguise possibilities and see no harm in it. I'm convinced MJ was DD on LKL, blond lady at the Memorial, green man at the Olympics, Casket man and possibly others. MJ loves to wear disguises and has done so countless times throughout his life. He is a master at it, and has the money and staff to make them able to fool most people. He's said he loves to walk around normal people to see what they're thinking and feeling without being recognized. So I see no harm in speculation and investigation here. With each of the above disguises there was much discussion and annalysis on the forum before a conclusion could be made. This old man case has hardly been talked about and needs further investigation IMO.
Michael was possibly DD on LKL and the old guy at the memorial. I never said that Michael never used any disguises. Of course he did. But the point is you are trying to fit bananas and apples on the same basket. All I'm saying is, not all of these people are Michael in disguises. You can keep on digging and convince yourselves that he is Michael since he is not. I really do not get why some of you started to think that he is not MJ since it is really him and he is MJ in disguise since he has nothing to do with him. We need to be logical. That guy is too tall to be Michael. We can see his shoes and no hills on them. So why need to keep on trying convince yourselves that he is Michael? That's what I do not get. I would love to see him in disguise in all of the videos, tv shows, with his kids etc. But if we use our common sense here, he can not show up in every single place in a disguise. You say that it doesn't give any harm to you but you already started to think that he is not MJ since it is him, and he is MJ since he is not him. Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? After he comes back, I wonder if some of you will think that he is a body double too. How are you guys going to be sure? You will always be hesitating if that's MJ in disguise, or MJ for real or a body double. I'm talking for everyone who thinks the way I wrote above, not personally only you MJonmind.
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We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc. The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot. He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory. Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey. I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves. ;)
I agree on this wholeheartedly. What if we are all still players in his movie and this old man is part of
the hoax?? Maybe not Michael, but representing something he wants to get across..
I find it funny that at the funeral we have hat man on his cell, and in this video we have this old man
on his cell. What if when all is revealed this is one big movie and we find out that the old men are
just characters in the movie. Maybe, hat man and this old man are supposed to be chatting on their cell
phones for a scene in Michael's movie. Could it be that all of these things we are seeing will be edited
together and at the end will finally make sense?
I am not making sense am I ?? What I am trying to say is that it seems as if there are reoccuring characters
in this hoax. Edit alot of this stuff we have seen and witnessed together and you have a movie.
But when does this movie end??
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Wow MJ got another video coming out. He's been really busy since June 25th hasn't he.lol :D
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My point of view is, you are loosing it and started to see MJ in everyone. You respect mine then Gema.
In order to respect yours, first you need to approach people and present your opinion with respect, don´t you think? ;)
I'm sorry for using "paranoia". You are right about it. I shouldn't have labeled you guys
Thanks.
But seriously, my point is, everyone we think he is MJ is not MJ and everything we think it is related with the hoax, is not related with the hoax. We should make the difference.
This same quote you could have use to make your point from the very beginning without falling in to labeling the other members ;)
Every research is valuable and thanks to "those people who see MJ everywhere" some other conclusions have been coming out. Dictating what people should see or not, or do or not should not, is far from giving an opinion.
You say we should make the difference; well, how can you tell when and how to make the difference? is it there a bar measuring hoax/non hoax?
In this particular case:
1- there is a video of "MJ"
2- there are dancers who we don´t know and an old man dancing, jumping and clapping
3- we have seen during the months "weird" looking characters
4- we believe MJ is alive--->possibly in disguise--->this old man dancing, jumping and clapping?
Why not???
I am not really looking for your answers,if you have any, but now maybe, you and the other members who label the others for "seeing MJ", especially is this particular case, can be a little more emphatic and understand the "how come" before jumping to "you guys have MJ paranoia/ are paranoid/ are loosing it"
You mentioned also how ironic it is. Well, it is even more ironic to see your posts in the army of love web and then read how you refer to your "fellow members".
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So I see no harm in speculation and investigation here. With each of the above disguises there was much discussion and annalysis on the forum before a conclusion could be made. This old man case has hardly been talked about and needs further investigation IMO.
Agree.
Also, way back during summer 2009 I had the chance to talk people who believed that MJ was walking around as an old man and also believed they saw him in a hotel in CA, this was 2009, before all the theories came out.
IDK why the mayority think, me included some times, that MJ would be disguised as a woman, but the old man theory is more "fitting".
Seeing this man in this video jumping, clapping and all that, plus the shoes....made me wonder as well.
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Gema does it occur to you that some people in this forum English is not their first language?
English is not my first language either ;)
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What comes to my mind about the The Old Man theory is a book by Ernest Hemingway called the Old Man and the Sea. I will copy and paste wikipedia a summary information on this book. It was one of Michael's favourites. What stood out to me in this synopsis is "Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world."
Plot summary
The Old Man and the Sea tells an epic battle between an old, experienced fisherman and a giant marlin.
Never thought about that perspective. Imo, the old man disguise is just that.
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[attachment=0:bqxph2c4]small_notebook_10.jpg[/attachment:bqxph2c4]
why not? it's all possible. why would he do it? i think michael would be itching to be part of the action. not just because he likes to control his art, but another "in your face" moment for people to refer back to after the bam.
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Tuesday, February 22nd 2011
Behind The Scenes: Michael Jackson’s ‘Hollywood Tonight’ Video
Somewhat overdue, the video for Michael Jackson’s latest single ‘Hollywood Tonight’ was aptly shot in Hollywood, California last night. The Teddy Riley produced cut (first recorded in 2007) serves as the 2nd release to be lifted from the King of Pop’s first posthumous LP ‘Michael’ - which topped charts globally late last year.
Check out the footage, which sees the 60+ cast dancing up a storm, after the jump…
Via TMZ:
Cracking stuff! While many give a nod to MJ when performing, the dancers above really seemed to embody his spirit. Bring on the video!
http://thatgrapejuice.net/2011/02/scene ... ght-video/ (http://thatgrapejuice.net/2011/02/scenes-michael-jacksons-hollywood-tonight-video/)
the dancers above really seemed to embody his spirit. Bring on the video!
I agree, the dancers are great!
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Another snippet...
[youtube:1wkjkhcp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB05mmA_gE8[/youtube:1wkjkhcp]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB05mmA_gE8
The old gentleman is standing very far behind the dancers observing. ;)
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Was any other "old guy" in the video Hold my hand?
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I have not seen the vid, but yes, there was an old man in Hold my hand.
What the "old man" discussion makes me think of was the story of Benjamin Button: Born as an old man ....(then ageign in reverse)
Re-born as an old man, maybe? As in, MJ is reborn into this new life as an old man before he comes back.
Just throwing ideas out there..
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Another snippet...
[youtube:3o374x6i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB05mmA_gE8[/youtube:3o374x6i]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB05mmA_gE8
The old gentleman is standing very far behind the dancers observing. ;)
Thanks Grace!
At some point this old guy dances... and the shoes give me gossebumps... this old man reminds me to dave dave ;)
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I have not seen the vid, but yes, there was an old man in Hold my hand.
What the "old man" discussion makes me think of was the story of Benjamin Button: Born as an old man ....(then ageign in reverse)
Re-born as an old man, maybe? As in, MJ is reborn into this new life as an old man before he comes back.
Just throwing ideas out there..
Yes, the old man's style makes me think of the old Benjamin in "The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button" too. Beautiful movie btw.
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Another snippet...
[youtube:1kx1191t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB05mmA_gE8[/youtube:1kx1191t]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB05mmA_gE8
The old gentleman is standing very far behind the dancers observing. ;)
Thanks Grace!
At some point this old guy dances... and the shoes give me gossebumps... this old man reminds me to dave dave ;)
Hahaha, I like the second he starts shaking his head as if he never had done anything different... :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't want to imagine his cervical vertebra if he really were an old man.
All shook up... IMO he's a 100% lifetime dancer. :mrgreen:
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MAYBE the clue is...who really did die WAS an old man. Maybe that 's why the medics saw and old man. Maybe that's why there are old men at all these Michael places. Maybe some old man did die that day. Can anyone out by LA check the obits or something?? See who died that day in that county...
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Gema does it occur to you that some people in this forum English is not their first language?
English is not my first language either ;)
Well you are fortunate that your english is better than others. Just please be patient with some members. I am sure if i would write in Russian and it is not my first language I would make plenty of mistake. (this is an example i do not speak russian. )
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more footage..you can see the old man clearly
[youtube:2004uf41]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDRx2aU2mc[/youtube:2004uf41]
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[youtube:3sgsgb6s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RotGQOMcadU[/youtube:3sgsgb6s]
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So let me get this...This video is a professional video..like by Sony, right?
And the old man is in it?
And the old man is at the flash mob dances too?
That old man, if he's dancing in the professional video, just can't happen to be at all those other dances unless the flash dances were staged by Sony...with the same dancers.
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We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc. The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot. He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory. Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey. I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves. ;)
I agree on this wholeheartedly. What if we are all still players in his movie and this old man is part of
the hoax?? Maybe not Michael, but representing something he wants to get across..
I find it funny that at the funeral we have hat man on his cell, and in this video we have this old man
on his cell. What if when all is revealed this is one big movie and we find out that the old men are
just characters in the movie. Maybe, hat man and this old man are supposed to be chatting on their cell
phones for a scene in Michael's movie. Could it be that all of these things we are seeing will be edited
together and at the end will finally make sense?
I am not making sense am I ?? What I am trying to say is that it seems as if there are reoccuring characters
in this hoax. Edit alot of this stuff we have seen and witnessed together and you have a movie.
But when does this movie end??
I totally understand what you are saying and it could very well be that we are seeing a movie made and how it progresses (just like in This is It). Michael wanted to show us what it entailed to put on a concert and how he saw it through his eyes. Now I think we are experiencing the whole event in a reality v. illusion montage of images, pictures, pre-recorded events (ie the ambulance)... again I come back to my opinion that it is an alternate reality game, but more of interaction among people than an online game. An interaction between people online and in the real world as well ....and so what we perceive as real, maybe really isn't (ie the court room) and so the interaction crosses from reality into illusion and back.
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Gema does it occur to you that some people in this forum English is not their first language?
English is not my first language either ;)
Well you are fortunate that your english is better than others. Just please be patient with some members. I am sure if i would write in Russian and it is not my first language I would make plenty of mistake. (this is an example i do not speak russian. )
Is not about commanding a language, is about labeling people using certain words ;)
I hope my position and point is clear about this issue since I don´t want to go on discussing the same all over.
I have said all I needed to say regarding this matter.
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So let me get this...This video is a professional video..like by Sony, right?
And the old man is in it?
And the old man is at the flash mob dances too?
That old man, if he's dancing in the professional video, just can't happen to be at all those other dances unless the flash dances were staged by Sony...with the same dancers.
Crossed my mind as well, but I don´t remember this girl dancing in other videos.
I am going to watch hold my hand again. It was said that fans were dancing, not just professional dancers. May be one can match dancers from here and there.
Dancers from TII were at Michaels funeral, how odd is that?
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the old guy
http://twitpic.com/42y2n6 (http://twitpic.com/42y2n6)
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We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc. The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot. He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory. Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey. I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves. ;)
I agree on this wholeheartedly. What if we are all still players in his movie and this old man is part of
the hoax?? Maybe not Michael, but representing something he wants to get across..
I find it funny that at the funeral we have hat man on his cell, and in this video we have this old man
on his cell. What if when all is revealed this is one big movie and we find out that the old men are
just characters in the movie. Maybe, hat man and this old man are supposed to be chatting on their cell
phones for a scene in Michael's movie. Could it be that all of these things we are seeing will be edited
together and at the end will finally make sense?
I am not making sense am I ?? What I am trying to say is that it seems as if there are reoccuring characters
in this hoax. Edit alot of this stuff we have seen and witnessed together and you have a movie.
But when does this movie end??
I totally understand what you are saying and it could very well be that we are seeing a movie made and how it progresses (just like in This is It). Michael wanted to show us what it entailed to put on a concert and how he saw it through his eyes. Now I think we are experiencing the whole event in a reality v. illusion montage of images, pictures, pre-recorded events (ie the ambulance)... again I come back to my opinion that it is an alternate reality game, but more of interaction among people than an online game. An interaction between people online and in the real world as well ....and so what we perceive as real, maybe really isn't (ie the court room) and so the interaction crosses from reality into illusion and back.
Awesome thoughts...I tend to agree!!!
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Gema does it occur to you that some people in this forum English is not their first language?
English is not my first language either ;)
Well you are fortunate that your english is better than others. Just please be patient with some members. I am sure if i would write in Russian and it is not my first language I would make plenty of mistake. (this is an example i do not speak russian. )
Is not about commanding a language, is about labeling people using certain words ;)
I hope my position and point is clear about this issue since I don´t want to go on discussing the same all over.
I have said all I needed to say regarding this matter.
Fine, as you want your point clear so do I.. thanks and have a great day.
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Is it common for the public to be seeing these videos in the making like this? I don't usually follow celebrity news so I'm not sure if this is a common occurrence. I don't know if that man is MJ but if it is why couldn't he be there and be among people - that is what he really wanted, was to be treated like a normal person.
Interesting stuff being discussed - I have gleaned valuable insight from each and every one of you. Thank you. And, English is my first (and only) language yet I didn't take that comment in an offensive manner. Yes, we need to be careful of cultural differences but if we're not looking to be offended normally we aren't.
Many blessings to each of you.
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[attachment=0:1jwddnjp]small_notebook_10.jpg[/attachment:1jwddnjp]
why not? it's all possible. why would he do it? i think michael would be itching to be part of the action. not just because he likes to control his art, but another "in your face" moment for people to refer back to after the bam.
Hello mjfansince4!!!!
Powerfull words from Keneddy ,thank you!!!!
If I remember correct President Kennedy was in This is it movie,no???
Kennedy will have a part in a next movie X-man, 8-) ,so please take a look 8-) because I'm sure Michael has a hand with those movies.After year 2000 we have alot of movies with HEROES,I'm the only one to noticed this???????? Superman,Batamn,X-man,Fantastic four,Transformers,Green lantern,Megamind ,MARVEL,anyone???? :o
LOVE!!!
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Just noticed the 7 stars... i really cannot tell if it's Michael dancing or not :? The old man recurrence is definitely something interesting.
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http://www.moejackson.com/2011-michael-jackson-estate-thieves-film-postumous-music-video-0222?page=0,0
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by Grace » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:20 am
Again and again I feel blessed to have been "called into" the VIP lounge for witnessing this dramaturgical masterpiece to unfold. I feel so sorry for all those who did not pay attention and did not question and do not listen or see and will never know about the "making of" in detail.
They may be shaken in their fundamentals one day.
I am grateful for this shower of love that we are being given repeatedly.
This old guy was acting a little bit too frenetic for the intervertebral disk issues he assumedly could have according to his potential age. I like him a lot.
Thanks Michael. It's an awesome journey.
If MJ is truly behind the details we are discovering, I think he would be pleased that we stayed the course and found them. We don't quit when the going gets rough or some call us looney.
by ignisaeternus » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:21 am
I have not seen the vid, but yes, there was an old man in Hold my hand.
What the "old man" discussion makes me think of was the story of Benjamin Button: Born as an old man ....(then ageign in reverse)
Re-born as an old man, maybe? As in, MJ is reborn into this new life as an old man before he comes back.
Just throwing ideas out there..
There is an old man standing by the bed of the dying younger lady, and then standing by the bed with the glowing red rose. He reminds me of Casket man, who I'm pretty sure is MJ. [attachment=0:20gyspx9]HMH1.jpg[/attachment:20gyspx9] I've also long thought of the movie The Strange case of Benjamen Button, and here is my post from a while back.
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=12085&p=295215&hilit=benjamen+button#p295215 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=12085&p=295215&hilit=benjamen+button#p295215)
by MJonmind » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:20 pm
Right since day one the movie, The Strange case of Benjamen Button, has stayed in the back of my mind. You say, he looked great, like in the 80's, the prime of his life. I believe the resurrected body will be the prime adult body, without the imperfections and deterioration that we all experience. That being said, Jesus' body though healed, had scars to prove his identy, in his hands, feet, side, to people like Thomas.
This older man looks like the man at Lakers next to Prince. The problem is that they are deemed too tall to be Michael. Can an illusion create height? And I agree he looks like the old man of the movie Benjamen Button. He’s talking on his cell, the same as the hatman at the funeral, also considered too tall to be MJ. Also one person talked of the similarity to DD without the burn details.
But who else would be at all these events, only one dressed in a formal suit, dance exceptionally MJ-like, talking on a cell. Some have suggested Murray was that hatman because of the paisley ties being the same. So who else are some possibilities? We want to see the alternatives. The Ghost Mayor at least proves that MJ likes to dress like an old man and dance while doing it. On that note I also want to mention that TMZ's new background look is Ghost Hunters, http://www.syfy.com/ghosthunters/?__sou ... T.srch=TMZ (http://www.syfy.com/ghosthunters/?__source=Ignited_Ghost_Hunters&WT.srch=TMZ) and this "old man" could very well be a comic/live ghost of MJ. I don't know where they're going with that but maybe someone could check out all the details with that. I really strongly believe everythings interrelated and connected at the very top. It's a take-over.
Just some thoughts on the Pantages.
Wiki
In 1949, Howard Hughes acquired the Pantages. Many famous performances over the years including The Phantom of the Opera and The Wizard of Oz. Now currently Rock of Ages.
The story line of Rock of Ages, I think seems to parallel the song Hollywood tonight. A guy (busboy) and girl (waitress) wanting to make it big.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(musical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(musical))
During performance, the performers frequently break the "fourth wall", directly addressing the audience and seemingly forgetting (or perhaps reminding the audience) that they are actors in a musical.
As Oprah would say, "This is big, this is very big!!" :lol:
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My point of view is, you are loosing it and started to see MJ in everyone. You respect mine then Gema.
In order to respect yours, first you need to approach people and present your opinion with respect, don´t you think? ;)
I'm sorry for using "paranoia". You are right about it. I shouldn't have labeled you guys
Thanks.
But seriously, my point is, everyone we think he is MJ is not MJ and everything we think it is related with the hoax, is not related with the hoax. We should make the difference.
This same quote you could have use to make your point from the very beginning without falling in to labeling the other members ;)
Every research is valuable and thanks to "those people who see MJ everywhere" some other conclusions have been coming out. Dictating what people should see or not, or do or not should not, is far from giving an opinion.
You say we should make the difference; well, how can you tell when and how to make the difference? is it there a bar measuring hoax/non hoax?
In this particular case:
1- there is a video of "MJ"
2- there are dancers who we don´t know and an old man dancing, jumping and clapping
3- we have seen during the months "weird" looking characters
4- we believe MJ is alive--->possibly in disguise--->this old man dancing, jumping and clapping?
Why not???
I am not really looking for your answers,if you have any, but now maybe, you and the other members who label the others for "seeing MJ", especially is this particular case, can be a little more emphatic and understand the "how come" before jumping to "you guys have MJ paranoia/ are paranoid/ are loosing it"
You mentioned also how ironic it is. Well, it is even more ironic to see your posts in the army of love web and then read how you refer to your "fellow members".
Gema first of, I did not name anyone as a paranoiac but you are twisting the word as it pleases you. I said "people started to have seeing MJ in everyone paranoia." I didn't say people started to have paranoia. I'm sure you understand the difference btw them. I apologized because I know that I used the wrong word. I should have used "obsession" instead of paranoia. And yes, as a proud member of the army of love, I do have the virtue of apologizing when I say something wrong. So you'd better stop labelling me and trying to show me like a bad person here.
I'm a direct person and I like to write everything in my mind directly. When I see something is wrong, I can not close my mouth since I want to write it down. I never ever want to breake someone's heart and that is not my intention but this issue seemed like going too far to me. I do not find a reason WHY Michael would NOT appear in his video as an old guy or why he would not go to a basketball match with his son. IF these guys resembled Michael, I would definitely think that he could be him but they do not. When you guys wrote that this old man could be MJ in disguise, I checked it out myself too. Do you think that I refuse the idea even without looking at what it is. I watched the dance tribute video of a believer posted on the first page and saw the "old" guy who is NOT even an old guy but wearing a white hat instead. The person who made the video was also too obsessed (in another words directed his mind) to see Michael in an old guy that he thought that young man was a white haired old man and MJ in disguise. This is exactly what I'm trying to tell you. Sometimes our minds play tricks on us and when you want to see Michael, you see him even the guy has nothing to do with him. You guys are talking about an old guy reference but the only old guy I saw MJ in disguise was in memorial and nowhere else. You can make the difference but you do not want to make it. You see it but you do not believe it. I say this guy is too tall to be MJ. This can be seen with your own eyes. When you compare the guy with others you can see how tall he is. Or his bone structure, his face shape etc. This is just an example. You can make the difference with common sense but you are not using it. And I never ever wrote what you guys should see or shouldn't see. You are twisting my words again as it pleases you. I said you should make the difference!
From the weird theories lately I saw on this forum, I am not jumping to a conclusion by telling you guys are loosing it about this issue. I saw enough to tell you that. I stated my opinion about this topic and it is enough for me. You guys can keep on making your "valuable" research but this is only wasting my time here for nothing. If you have anything else to write to me, pls PM me because I will not be reading this topic any more. I said enough. You will have many many old guys to discuss about. So good luck to you about it.
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To me this is no coincidence....this old man keeps popping up everywhere - and like I said before whether or not it is MJ, we need to find out what the old man means. I am not paranoid or jump at every clue as it being Michael's or Michael himself; however, you are right Gema I think everyone has a right to state their opinion with respect and because some may disagree with other's opinions or theories, does not give them the right to state that others are wrong and saying so indirectly to them.
To say you are wasting time on reading someone's opinion that may have taken a long time to form or write is unnecessary, just don't even bother to respond to it if you disagree about it so much. There is alot on here I don't necessarily agree with; however, I do move on and do post what I think is relevant to my way of thinking and the next person does not have to believe any of my opinions or theories. Saves alot of misunderstanding.
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more footage..you can see the old man clearly
[youtube:2sjcegev]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDRx2aU2mc[/youtube:2sjcegev]
It could be him. I've added images taken from :41 or :44 Did you notice him at :57? top right corner...doing the moves with her 8-) not bad.
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A very happy guy.
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Tuesday, February 22nd 2011
Behind The Scenes: Michael Jackson’s ‘Hollywood Tonight’ Video
Somewhat overdue, the video for Michael Jackson’s latest single ‘Hollywood Tonight’ was aptly shot in Hollywood, California last night. The Teddy Riley produced cut (first recorded in 2007) serves as the 2nd release to be lifted from the King of Pop’s first posthumous LP ‘Michael’ - which topped charts globally late last year.
Check out the footage, which sees the 60+ cast dancing up a storm, after the jump…
Via TMZ:
Cracking stuff! While many give a nod to MJ when performing, the dancers above really seemed to embody his spirit. Bring on the video!
http://thatgrapejuice.net/2011/02/scene ... ght-video/ (http://thatgrapejuice.net/2011/02/scenes-michael-jacksons-hollywood-tonight-video/)
the dancers above really seemed to embody his spirit. Bring on the video!
I agree, the dancers are great!
This answers on of my questions. Are these professional dancers. So these are professionals tells us that this old man is a professional. So why is this same professional going around dancing in flash mobs? And why did he happen to be in 2 or 3 of Michael's and happen to be recorded?(and really, is he OLD?? Do we SEE wrinkles, and WHAT is OLD?? This man looks PALE, really, but is he OLD? I"M 54, Michael is 53 this summer, are we old?)
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I do not look so old.....
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Old man has an amazing smile.
Traffic stopper it is.
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Old man has an amazing smile.
Traffic stopper it is.
I agree, great smile and very young expression for someone who dresses as if he will be 93 next birthday :lol:
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Ok, I see that some of you think this old man can be MJ in disguise. I am sorry to burst all your bubbles but unfortunately he isn't. You may tell me how do you know? Well look at his height? He is too tall to be Michael, and on top of that study his mannerisms, not the same. Even clapping hands is not the same way Michael claps his hands. Look at the TII Movie, you can see what I am talking about. I am sure some of you will start bashing me for stating my opinion, but hey go ahead, we are on a roll here I see. Blessings.
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Sorry guys......mystery solved. Case closed. This is the dancers profile on facebook.
His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
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http://www.moejackson.com/2011-michael-jackson-estate-thieves-film-postumous-music-video-0222?page=0,0
Can't they enjoy the bright side of life?
If there was no new album or video, they would bark about how the estate could not live up to Michael's legacy.
They have lost their smiles. How sad.
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Sorry guys......mystery solved. Case closed. This is the dancers profile on facebook.
His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
Great, he's indeed a dancer and teacher and loves hip hop and I was wrong - he's not a dancer for his lifetime... ;)
He's a fan somehow it seems and appears to be a very lovely person.
Hello. I started dancing about 10 years ago because I don't like exercise, but I need to move and dance is more fun. The dance was at a gym, and the teacher, DHQ, taught me to be funky. DHQ was a backup dancer with M.C. Hammer (he's in the video "Too Legit to Quit"). I always liked James Brown, Michael Jackson, M.C., Gazzarri Dancers, and recently, Beat Freaks, Rino Nakasone, Alison Faulk, Anthony Thomas, Travis Payne, and Tiffany Bong. I want to learn all of their dances and a little street Samba too. Then after I learn all of this I want to dance a lot.
I am 66 years old and often can be seen wearing a headband. I think I can give Mr. 6 a run for his money. Now that I am getting some dance skills, I would like to put them to use. I just retired after 30 years as Deputy Director of Engineering for Air Force Space & Missile Systems Center.
If you need a senior "buff daddy" who can actually move for your video or ad, I'm your man.
http://www.danceplug.com/john-edwards
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Old man has an amazing smile.
Traffic stopper it is.
I agree, great smile and very young expression for someone who dresses as if he will be 93 next birthday :lol:
I'm tellin ya, that outfit he has on looks like a Michael creation! Michael's version of what he thinks an old man
should wear! :lol: But it looks like our mystery has been solved!! ;)
This man sure knows how to dress for a Michael Jackson video though!
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http://www.moejackson.com/2011-michael-jackson-estate-thieves-film-postumous-music-video-0222?page=0,0
Can't they enjoy the bright side of life?
If there was no new album or video, they would bark about how the estate could not live up to Michael's legacy.
They have lost their smiles. How sad.
I will say my opinion. People should stop trying to recreate him. A video of a song of his, without Michael, makes no sense and it's a way to try to feed people an illusion, but not the man himself. I know Michael already has videos without him in them, but he is behind the concept and the idea. I can't know if he is behind all these new videos, but no matter who agrees with me or not, for me they do it just for money. There's no sense in trying to recreate him and give people the Placebo effect.
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
Totally agree ;)
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
Totally agree ;)
Ok Souza does it mean every old man you will see is Michael? I don't see that it is Michael total different height and mannerism.
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
Totally agree ;)
Ok Souza does it mean every old man you will see is Michael? I don't see that it is Michael total different height and mannerism.
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Or with whom he was allegedly communicates through mobile :?:
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nah on this one unfortunately, for me. This facebook goes way back...lots of great pics...check it out.
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His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
I wasn't going to post anything on this funny issue no more but a friend told me that they were found out who the old man is. So I will just :lol: at the ones who are still dreaming and think that the FB page of this guy could be fake and who still see MJ in everyone and I'll move on to serious issues.
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Has this video already finished filming?
Also I found this article;
A clip from the forthcoming video for the previously unreleased track was leaked on YouTube, and shows a female dancer dressed as the late singer.
The long-haired dancer is wearing a black fedora hat and sparkly jacket, teamed with Jacko's trademark glove.
The woman and several backing dancers are performing Jackson-style moves on the pavement near Hollywood's Pantages Theatre.
Earlier this week Jackson's brother revealed the late pop star's three children love talking about their father.
Jackie Jackson says 14-year-old Michael Jnr, Paris, 12, and nine-year-old Prince (aka Blanket) can’t hear enough about their father, saying: ‘They have pictures in the bedroom. They talk about him all the time. They are around their father 24 hours a day. They ask me for stories about him. They want to know more about him.’
Hollywood Tonight, due to be released on March 6, is the second single to be released from Jackson's posthumous album Michael.
Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/music/856444-mic ... z1EtoCaiBA (http://www.metro.co.uk/music/856444-michael-jackson-replaced-by-woman-in-hollywood-tonight-video#ixzz1EtoCaiBA)
Just thought that was interesting.
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http://www.moejackson.com/2011-michael-jackson-estate-thieves-film-postumous-music-video-0222?page=0,0
"A music video for (murdered) Michael Jackson's single "Hollywood Tonight""
Some people are very sure that MJ was murdered :?
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Regardless of who is in the video as I have said in my earlier post, why is there an appearance of an OLD MAN in every single production about or by Michael Jackson? Perhaps it does have a more serious issue as I pointed out in the parallels of the Old Man and the Sea... however, some of you may be too young to remember that book.
Can anyone tell me why there is an old man appearing in MJ's productions? Perhaps then we may be getting answers to some of our questions.
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So now, that the old guy is just an old guy, maybe we should go back to the take over issue
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His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
I wasn't going to post anything on this funny issue no more but a friend told me that they were found out who the old man is. So I will just :lol: at the ones who are still dreaming and think that the FB page of this guy could be fake and who still see MJ in everyone and I'll move on to serious issues.
Is it really necessary to laugh at people who have different opinions from you? It is not nice to put down other's people's opinions and thoughts. Where's the L.O.V.E.? I kinda expected a little more adult behaviour from you, but maybe you are a young one, "purelove".
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Gema first of, I did not name anyone as a paranoiac but you are twisting the word as it pleases you. I said "people started to have seeing MJ in everyone paranoia." I didn't say people started to have paranoia. I'm sure you understand the difference btw them. I apologized because I know that I used the wrong word. I should have used "obsession" instead of paranoia. And yes, as a proud member of the army of love, I do have the virtue of apologizing when I say something wrong. So you'd better stop labelling me and trying to show me like a bad person here.
I am not twisting your words. All you said is written here.
Seems like is not enough of being labeled all the time outside the hoax forums, also labels need to happen inside the hoax forums and by members who, as you, can´t keep up with the "love" they want to preach ;)
You guys can keep on making your "valuable" research but this is only wasting my time here for nothing.
You and only you waste your time by your own choice, noone is forcing you. Too bad the "valuable" research is not up to your standards...
If you have anything else to write to me, pls PM me because I will not be reading this topic any more.
I´m sure you will be reading this topic. I am not going to PM you, you could have PM me as you have done for "other matters" but instead you have posted your reply in open forum.
I said all i had to say regarding this matter.
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A very happy guy.
Is the ear vanished because of the bad quality pic?
I got other pics to post.
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Sorry guys......mystery solved. Case closed. This is the dancers profile on facebook.
His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
Right!
However, height, eyes...are the same.
There is a lot speculation since yesterday about this all over the net. Some people think (me as well right now)that is MJ disguised for real.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT58Z-_e3gnkS-2dPKWV8i8KGeRMYRA2yQOJ9eC4hfmH6wML9lwxQ)
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http://www.moejackson.com/2011-michael-jackson-estate-thieves-film-postumous-music-video-0222?page=0,0
Can't they enjoy the bright side of life?
If there was no new album or video, they would bark about how the estate could not live up to Michael's legacy.
They have lost their smiles. How sad.
I will say my opinion. People should stop trying to recreate him. A video of a song of his, without Michael, makes no sense and it's a way to try to feed people an illusion, but not the man himself. I know Michael already has videos without him in them, but he is behind the concept and the idea. I can't know if he is behind all these new videos, but no matter who agrees with me or not, for me they do it just for money. There's no sense in trying to recreate him and give people the Placebo effect.
I agree with you partly. It is for money, of course, but I also think that MJ wanted to show the world new talents. That girl dances amazing!
People wants "MJ" so people are getting "MJ" even if is in "spirit".
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
The thing is that is not a matter of life and death looking for "hidden MJ" :lol: it is very entertaining after a day of hard work and family life!
A lot of people, not only us, are awared of the old man by now!
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His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
I wasn't going to post anything on this funny issue no more but a friend told me that they were found out who the old man is. So I will just :lol: at the ones who are still dreaming and think that the FB page of this guy could be fake and who still see MJ in everyone and I'll move on to serious issues.
Yes, of course, laugh at the ones who are still dreaming ..and move on to serious issues...but please, DO...don´t bother and make such a big deal about what others see. There are already enough HATERS out there lauging AT US ;)
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Regardless of who is in the video as I have said in my earlier post, why is there an appearance of an OLD MAN in every single production about or by Michael Jackson? Perhaps it does have a more serious issue as I pointed out in the parallels of the Old Man and the Sea... however, some of you may be too young to remember that book.
Can anyone tell me why there is an old man appearing in MJ's productions? Perhaps then we may be getting answers to some of our questions.
I agree. Why would there even NEED to be an old man. I don't think he is Michael but I DO think he is there
as a repetitive clue. I think that we ARE supposed to notice this. Think about the 'Hold my Hand' video and
all of the clues there. More repetitive clues.
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Sorry guys......mystery solved. Case closed. This is the dancers profile on facebook.
His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
Right!
However, height, eyes...are the same.
There is a lot speculation since yesterday about this all over the net. Some people think (me as well right now)that is MJ disguised for real.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT58Z-_e3gnkS-2dPKWV8i8KGeRMYRA2yQOJ9eC4hfmH6wML9lwxQ)
Michael is not 6'1 ...
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
I also agree with you Souza,
Btw everytime there is someone who could be Michael why dismis it directly.
I'm convinced Dave Dave was Michael in disguise.
I believe Michael is alive and that's the reason i believe that he could possible appear when there's something that relate to him.
i keep my eyes open...... ;)
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Facebook and other internet pages can be created, that doesn't prove to me that he is a 66 year old retired man. I really don't care if people say I lost it, that guy is suspicious and on my disguises list.
I also agree with you Souza,
Btw everytime there is someone who could be Michael why dismis it directly.
I'm convinced Dave Dave was Michael in disguise.
I believe Michael is alive and that's the reason i believe that he could possible appear when there's something that relate to him.
i keep my eyes open...... ;)
i agree. we know dave dave is a real person, but i believe 100 percent that was michael on LKL. and let's say this man does exist, he's a real 66 year old person who loves to do hip hop dancing and makes his way into flashmob videos. does that mean michael couldn't mimic him for his video?
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There is a chance Michael could have used his profile it is odd that he is always there in the background
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Hey...He's John Edwards?? Like the fallen state senator ?? HUMMMM now again I wonder
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Hey...He's John Edwards?? Like the fallen state senator ?? HUMMMM now again I wonder
OKAY, I've got him....he is NOT Michael. He's a dance show winner :)
http://www.cmt.com/videos/shows/your-chance-to-dance/576630/your-chance-to-dance-winners-110.jhtml
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Hey...He's John Edwards?? Like the fallen state senator ?? HUMMMM now again I wonder
OKAY, I've got him....he is NOT Michael. He's a dance show winner :)
http://www.cmt.com/videos/shows/your-chance-to-dance/576630/your-chance-to-dance-winners-110.jhtml
yup that is Michael in disguise. He looks just like him.. NOT
fordtocarr, thank you for posting this video, finally they will see it was not Michael.. Blessings
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His name is John Edwards...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1095473923)
I wasn't going to post anything on this funny issue no more but a friend told me that they were found out who the old man is. So I will just :lol: at the ones who are still dreaming and think that the FB page of this guy could be fake and who still see MJ in everyone and I'll move on to serious issues.
Is it really necessary to laugh at people who have different opinions from you? It is not nice to put down other's people's opinions and thoughts. Where's the L.O.V.E.? I kinda expected a little more adult behaviour from you, but maybe you are a young one, "purelove".
Because you jumped on me when I told you the truth and I'm just enjoying the moment. It's not because you guys have a different opinion, it is because i was right when I told you this guy has nothing to do with Michael. And yes, I'm a kid at heart always. Why is it so hard for you guys to accept that you were wrong about it? And believe it or not, I would have laughed myself if I was wrong about this issue and would have told myself that I was loosing it. Sorry if my honesty hurt your feelings but I tell the truth always. And I think it is my right to state my opinion.
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Gema first of, I did not name anyone as a paranoiac but you are twisting the word as it pleases you. I said "people started to have seeing MJ in everyone paranoia." I didn't say people started to have paranoia. I'm sure you understand the difference btw them. I apologized because I know that I used the wrong word. I should have used "obsession" instead of paranoia. And yes, as a proud member of the army of love, I do have the virtue of apologizing when I say something wrong. So you'd better stop labelling me and trying to show me like a bad person here.
I am not twisting your words. All you said is written here.
Seems like is not enough of being labeled all the time outside the hoax forums, also labels need to happen inside the hoax forums and by members who, as you, can´t keep up with the "love" they want to preach ;)
You guys can keep on making your "valuable" research but this is only wasting my time here for nothing.
You and only you waste your time by your own choice, noone is forcing you. Too bad the "valuable" research is not up to your standards...
If you have anything else to write to me, pls PM me because I will not be reading this topic any more.
I´m sure you will be reading this topic. I am not going to PM you, you could have PM me as you have done for "other matters" but instead you have posted your reply in open forum.
I said all i had to say regarding this matter.
Gema believe it or not, I would have written that I'm loosing it and laughed to myself about it if I was also wrong about this isuue. It has nothing to do with love. I'm not spreading hate here. I criticize myself hardly and if I make a mistake about anything I write it open heartedly. I'm an honest person and I'm sorry if my honesty hurt your feelings. But as I wrote I would have written the same thing for myself if I thought this guy could be Michael. And I would have laughed at myself when we found out that he is actually a dancer. No need to exaggerate it.
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I wasn't going to post anything on this funny issue no more but a friend told me that they were found out who the old man is. So I will just :lol: at the ones who are still dreaming and think that the FB page of this guy could be fake and who still see MJ in everyone and I'll move on to serious issues.[/quote]
Is it really necessary to laugh at people who have different opinions from you? It is not nice to put down other's people's opinions and thoughts. Where's the L.O.V.E.? I kinda expected a little more adult behaviour from you, but maybe you are a young one, "purelove".[/quote]
Because you jumped on me when I told you the truth and I'm just enjoying the moment. It's not because you guys have a different opinion, it is because i was right when I told you this guy has nothing to do with Michael. And yes, I'm a kid at heart always. Why is it so hard for you guys to accept that you were wrong about it? And believe it or not, I would have laughed myself if I was wrong about this issue and would have told myself that I was loosing it. Sorry if my honesty hurt your feelings but I tell the truth always. And I think it is my right to state my opinion.[/quote]
_____________
Actually you didn't hurt my feelings at all because I never said this person is MJ; I reiterated the point that some people think he is and some think he is not but perhaps we should look at the bigger picture and find out if this OLD MAN who keeps popping up represents something else and not concentrate on what is right in front of us. So in fact I don't believe I was wrong because I never viewed it the way you were thinking I was viewing the situation, I was thinking outside the box. Your truth is what you believe, not necessarily what others believe. It is not about right or wrong it is about respecting people's opinions and being kind to each other. JMO
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OKAY, I've got him....he is NOT Michael. He's a dance show winner :)
http://www.cmt.com/videos/shows/your-ch ... -110.jhtml (http://www.cmt.com/videos/shows/your-chance-to-dance/576630/your-chance-to-dance-winners-110.jhtml)
No worries...that was what I thought all along.
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I don´t think that "our view" is being understood.
It is not about being hurt, is about expressing an opinion in the proper way without falling in to labeling people. A point of view, even the worst and most negative, can be given using basic protocol rules ;) but I understand, one can´t do better if does not know how to do better. "If there is nothing in the box, don´t expect a thing to come from the box", as we say in my country.
Regarding the "old man" debate.
I totally agree wit Shelby´s point of view. It is a recurrent theme, and why not look in to it?
Also, as i see it, is not that I am saying (or we are saying if we think alike about this) that the old dancer does not exist at all as a human being dancing in his 60´s. It is that Michael Jackson is using a disguise as an old man, this man, as well as we think he did about DaveDave. Dave is a person who exists but Michael, according to the theory, used his looks to disguise himself, and the same theory can apply to this old man "disguise".
Regarding Michael´s height. We do not know for sure what his height is and the proof is that not even official documents can agree upon this.
I am not closing any doors.
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Or the illusion of the illusion... of the illusion...etc.
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Actually you didn't hurt my feelings at all because I never said this person is MJ; I reiterated the point that some people think he is and some think he is not but perhaps we should look at the bigger picture and find out if this OLD MAN who keeps popping up represents something else and not concentrate on what is right in front of us. So in fact I don't believe I was wrong because I never viewed it the way you were thinking I was viewing the situation, I was thinking outside the box. Your truth is what you believe, not necessarily what others believe. It is not about right or wrong it is about respecting people's opinions and being kind to each other. JMO
This guy is just a dancer and I don't understand why it shocks you to see and old man in a video. He is not the only person there. And what other old men are you talking about? You see Prince at a basketball match and there is an old man sitting next to him, ohh that must mean something about the hoax? There're young people, blonde women, young boys and many more around them. Why don't you think about them but only about the old men? Michael disguised as the Green Man, as Dave Dave also. Why need to focus on the old man issue? I'm trying to say that, you're focusing on the wrong things which are not necessary for the hoax. But it is your time and your effort, so you can do whatever you want to but in my opinion it is not necessary to focus on the old man issue. And my truth about this discussion was this guy had nothing to do with Michael and you found out that he is just a dancer. So my truth is not what I believe only, it is a FACT.
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Gema didn't mention my name because she wrote that she said all she had to say regarding this matter. But it seems like she didn't say all. I see that you are very very "kind" in your posts by making personal attacks but still you're talking about being kind. This is so ironic. My comment was found negative because I made a negative comment about this guy can not be Michael and I told the truth that you are loosing it and my truth was found out that it is a FACT. You can not digest that I was right about it and your ego was so hurt that you keep on making personal attacks to me. Let me tell you something; That "empty" box opened its cover and got you in! Of course you like Shelby's posts. Because you think alike about this old guy issue. And there is an expression in my country that just fits with the situation. "Grapes get darker by looking at each other"
And about the old man issue, you can read what I wrote as an answer to Shelby. I do not need to repeat myself like you do all the time. If I were you two, I would accept that I was wrong about this issue as a mature person, and definitely get the things I told you as a piece of advice. But it seems like the expression that you use in your country is so appropriate for you. And yes, do not close your doors and keep on inviting all the old guys as Michael in disguise. You can keep on fooling yourselves as much as you want to. But do not be surprised when people laugh at you.
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PM time?
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PM time?
I asked people to PM me if they have anything else to say to me but it seems like they want everyone to see what they write.
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This is enough.. Purelove made a good remark about the old man, I agree with her, IT IS NOT MICHAEL. As for Gema I kindly stated that for some people english is not the first language, and not everyone is as lucky as she is ... Purelove excused herself for the wrong wording. Gema you say that is all I have to say, but you still continue harping towards purelove. I think you guys should stop arguing and continue with the investigation. It is obviously that we are all different and we will always think differently. For the love of God lets get along here. Purlove made one little mistake, and you jumped on her like she murdered someone. Be more understanding towards another person. Like I was and I do understand that in this forum we are from different parts from the world. Italy, Netherlands, Germany, England, Australia.. I can go on and on and on. Please for Michael let's get along.
God bless.
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PM time?
LOL :lol: Please forgive me - I read this as 'PMT time?' !!! :o
(Well, it fits! Calm down everyone, walk away, let it drop, you don't have to be the one to have the last word.)
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I agree, this thread is getting quite petty and unpleasant with certain words and insinuations being thrown around. To talk down to other members (and that's exactly what it is when you say "stop fooling yourselves", "you're paranoid" etc) when you don't KNOW with 100% certainty that your opinion is fact, is not right. We all know that MJ used disguises and had a love of transforming himself so not even family would recognise him when in disguise, so that's why we question when we see what seems like a strange/out of place character in these videos or wherever. I don't see how we can close our minds to everything apart from Dave Dave and the guy from the memorial. Surely it's MJ we're talking about, he could be anywhere at any time and it would appeal to him to be hiding in plain sight, right in front of everyone, in my opinion. That's not to say this guy or any of the others mentioned ARE him, but to diss others for even contemplating it is wrong, we're supposed to respect each others opinions, not just say "you're wrong", or "prepare to be laughed at,". And again we see the "so much for you preaching L.O.V.E." being used like a weapon whenever there's a disagreement. It's not a contest. Tolerance and respect, that's not too much to ask is it? Especially for someone with a username like Purelove?
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You can not digest that I was right about it and your ego was so hurt that you keep on making personal attacks to me
You are right? really? can you give 100% proof with no doubt that this old man in the video is not Michael disguised as this old man?, can you?
I believe strongly that your ego is the one totally out of balance here. not mine. Also, you are way too arrogant to have a balanced conversation.
And, pain is a subjective concept, I am intrigued about your "so hurt" measuring bar.
I said all I had to say to you on the first place and closed the chapter in reference with placing labels on people, that I have done if you noticed. However, here, once again, you insist in coming up with new so called truths about being right according to you, talking about "egos and personal attaks" when YOU and just YOU have been the one estating that you are going to laugh AT people and focus in important issues, yet here you are discussing such a non important issue again :roll:
I am going to adress you from the root, right the way. Still, you have not decided sending me a PM as you are capable to do when you really want to achieve something behind the back of someone ;) So by this actions of yours, I fully understand that It is your choice keeping this up, in public.
And about the old man issue, you can read what I wrote as an answer to Shelby. I do not need to repeat myself like you do all the time. If I were you two, I would accept that I was wrong about this issue as a mature person, and definitely get the things I told you as a piece of advice
What makes you think that you are in any position of giving advice to anyone? :lol:
Mature people do talk, but you give orders and expect people to "accept" them and if those are not followed you get a tantrum, as shown.
How old are you? Really. Maybe this conversation should not even be happening without having clear where you come from.
What I see is a distorted view on ego and capacities followed with "traces of paranoia".
Jokes aside; You are not the leader type nor an example to follow, don´t try so hard to shove your "thuth" in to others or advice to others when using that approach, it won´t work.
In order to give advice, you need to believe it yourself first. Not because you are rude or demand others to see and do as you say, means that people would listen, not when not even you have it clear yourself.
But it seems like the expression that you use in your country is so appropriate for you. And yes, do not close your doors and keep on inviting all the old guys as Michael in disguise. You can keep on fooling yourselves as much as you want to. But do not be surprised when people laugh at you.
I am awared that people laughs AT US, but what clashes with this concept is that an "honorable member of the army of LOVE" and this hoax forum as you are, so full of your own deluded perception of yourself, would come up with comments as lauging AT US for starting a new theory, this laugh from you to us, under the terms of you being so "purelove" makes no sense reading what you preach in other posts but do not follow, and actually, is full of hypocrisy.
I read twitter, forums and see all the laughing stock we are to some people regarding some theories, but those people are not "in tune" with the hoax theories and are not active in the Army of Love.
At least, they are not hypocrites and I admire them for that. They are genuine.
So, in resume, once again, I, in this post, said all I had to say regarding this matter :geek: .
If you come up with another matter (as shown in this post with the new ego here and there :lol: ) I will address it.
*wispers* BTW, my pm is open.... Unless you like the show going on....
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This is enough.. Purelove made a good remark about the old man, I agree with her, IT IS NOT MICHAEL. As for Gema I kindly stated that for some people english is not the first language, and not everyone is as lucky as she is ... Purelove excused herself for the wrong wording. Gema you say that is all I have to say, but you still continue harping towards purelove.
I totally disagree with you. Takes 2 to tango ;) plus, I go on closing chapters. The chapter about "paranoia and losing it" was closed and another got open and I did not open it.
Purelove posts are not written towards making peace, the opposite. Her replies with great quotes as laughing at us, again fooling ourselves, and a long etc, shows that she is in the road of just wanting to read that the rest are wrong so people must do as she said and stop with the old man´s theory, as demanded in her posts.
Too bad that you, as a psychologist you tell us all the time you are, could not see the core of the "how come".
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This is enough.. Purelove made a good remark about the old man, I agree with her, IT IS NOT MICHAEL. As for Gema I kindly stated that for some people english is not the first language, and not everyone is as lucky as she is ... Purelove excused herself for the wrong wording. Gema you say that is all I have to say, but you still continue harping towards purelove.
I totally disagree with you. Takes 2 to tango ;) plus, I go on closing chapters. The chapter about "paranoia and losing it" was closed and another got open and I did not open it.
Purelove posts are not written towards making peace, the opposite. Her replies with great quotes as laughing at us, again fooling ourselves, and a long etc, shows that she is in the road of just wanting to read that the rest are wrong so people must do as she said and stop with the old man´s theory, as demanded in her posts.
Too bad that you, as a psychologist you tell us all the time you are, could not see the core of the "how come".
gema, you are not worth to talk to., actually i should say to reason with.. you are being arrogant towards me and i do not accept that. I was very kind towards you and please do not question my profession, and my integrity. I have been very nice to everyone here, because it is my nature to be nice, but I can also be a BITCH, and you wouldn't want to cross that road with me.. I wish you a very nice day.. I am closing this chapter please do not respond to this anymore.
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May I ask each one of you to chill out please and go each into her corner and just breathe.
In, out, in, out. Relax.
(http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/fatty_cat_chillin.jpg)
Thanks for S.M.I.L.I.N.G. again.
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2/22/2011 7:00 AM PST by TMZ Staff
It's really interesting that they post it exactly at 7:00. ;)
And the video is 1:06
The old guy seems to have a nice smile and that girl in black is actually really good, I like her.
Anyway, I like how they say "Takes Over" ;)
MJ [s:1at33h3c]Music Video Shoot[/s:1at33h3c] Takes Over Hollywood
;) :D
This video is gonna be “hot"
I see a stage outside the theatre - 'All the world's a stage...'
http://www.enotes.com/as-you-like-it-te ... ii-scene-7 (http://www.enotes.com/as-you-like-it-text/act-ii-scene-7)
which reminds me of the spoken part in 'Are You Lonesome Tonight?'
and so I'm thinking that maybe the message is You Are Not Alone
http://soulofamerica.com/cgi-bin/slidev ... 0&slide=70 (http://soulofamerica.com/cgi-bin/slideviewer.cgi?list=la-Michael-Jackson&dir=&config=&design=soadesign&refresh=&scale=0&slide=70)
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@Gema
I'm not even going to spend my time with reading your post. I never attacked you or Shelby personally. But you jumped on me on two threads. It seems like you have some personal issues with me. I again wrote nothing about your personality since you wrote I'm not a good member of the army, I'm an empty box etc. The things you wrote is off the limits and they're humiliation towards my personality. Before you talk about being kind and spreading love, you should need to look at yourself first. I said that you are having an obsession of seeing MJ in everyone and the result of this old dancer issue proves that I'm right about it.
I asked you to send me a PM and never mentioned your name in my post after the one I made but you jumped on me again. That guy is NOT Michael. Everyone here have the capacity to understand that he is not. If you don't have it, it's your loss. Keep on fooling yourself. I'm done with you. I'm sorry to bother others with this mess but Gema's personal attacks made me to give an answer.
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WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THERE....
What is going on here?!
I am going to lock this thread on a temp basis until all issues have been resolved VIA PM or via admin/mods if those in question wish to have the problems resolved and forst can clean up her thread and make it calm again.