Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2011 => Topic started by: TS_comments on February 25, 2011, 08:25:19 PM

Title: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on February 25, 2011, 08:25:19 PM
Okay, so I decided to start the redirect thread this time.   ;)

As we near the end: let’s go back to the beginning, and examine once more the ambulance photo.  Not so much revisiting what has already been discussed numerous times, but rather taking a new look at something that has been there all along—and yet has been mostly overlooked.  Some people have thought it was a face hidden in the picture {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791);
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images)}.   However, it’s easy to see faces in random shapes such as the clouds, or mountains, etc.


(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)


This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

To help you figure out the answer: I have included below four different ambulance photos, a video of the wall area behind the red car, and a video of the inside of ambulance 71 (11803, CA 1261551).


(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Wall area behind the red car (starting at 1:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4)

Inside ambulance 71 (starting at 9:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)


See what you can figure out.  I will probably join in the discussion on this thread, but I will not redirect to any new comments in this thread.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 25, 2011, 08:26:46 PM
LOL, I stayed awake when I saw you online. I knew it would be 6:25 pm. Gonna read now...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on February 25, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
Based on watching the video of the wall behind the red car, I'm leaning towards it being a reflection of those leaves hanging over the wall.

Because there isn't anything in the ambulance that looks like the leaves pattern...and I don't think it's photoshopped.

EDIT: Looking at it again, I'm thinking it DEFINETLY is the leaves hanging over that wall behind the red car.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 25, 2011, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Based on watching the video of the wall behind the red car, I'm leaning towards it being a reflection of those leaves hanging over the wall.

Because there isn't anything in the ambulance that looks like the leaves pattern...and I don't think it's photoshopped.

It's not the wall either, because the leaves are hanging there, and this looks more like a sprout. There also should have been more reflection than that. I would say photoshopped, but  can't see for what reason (yet).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on February 25, 2011, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Based on watching the video of the wall behind the red car, I'm leaning towards it being a reflection of those leaves hanging over the wall.

Because there isn't anything in the ambulance that looks like the leaves pattern...and I don't think it's photoshopped.

It's not the wall either, because the leaves are hanging there, and this looks more like a sprout. There also should have been more reflection than that. I would say photoshopped, but  can't see for what reason (yet).

True. I guess I'm leaning towards it either being part of that big bush right there or photoshopped.

But why? And why is TS pointing to this? Can't wait to figure it out!

EDIT:
Probably means nothing but, this was posted Feb 25th, 2011 at 6:25

2+2+5+2+1+1 = 13 = 1+3 = 4
6+2+5 = 13 = 1+3 = 4

4+4 = 8


8 is big with EP. Idk LOL

And it was posted at 6:25 (6/25)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 25, 2011, 09:00:40 PM
If you look closely at the secondary image, you can see there are no plants at all by the wall behind the red car.

Yes, why point out to this, and why the 2/26 redirect (2:26 time of 'death') posted at 6:25 (6/25 date of 'death')? He switched the date and time, should we do that with that image too? I am rotating and flipping it, but I can't even see a cloud in a cloud, so maybe someone could do the same?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on February 25, 2011, 09:04:02 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
If you look closely at the secondary image, you can see there are no plants at all by the wall behind the red car.

Yes, why point out to this, and why the 2/26 redirect (2:26 time of 'death') posted at 6:25 (6/25 date of 'death')? He switched the date and time, should we do that with that image too? I am rotating and flipping it, but I can't even see a cloud in a cloud, so maybe someone could do the same?  :lol:

Maybe there could also be a connection with the redirect was at this time last year? Just thinking lol

Anyone remember what the redirect was?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Adi on February 25, 2011, 09:06:45 PM
I have always thought the ambulance photo had many interesting images photoshopped into it. My opinion is that the face is photoshopped in. It doesn't seem to look like it is coming from the reflection of the leaves or from the wall.

The face is there in the 1st pic of the series of 4...but doesn't seem to be there in the next 2, it's there again in the last but to me it looks different.....like a smiling Michael looking up at the ambo officer....which would have to be photoshopped in.

Another aside observation: to me in front of the red car it  looks like there is a a spiralling funnel in the ground sucking everything into it...like a rabbit hole...hmmmmm...and that's exactly what happened on June 25th 2009 - we were all sucked into a big ol' rabbit hole  :lol:

Thanks TS...good redirect on an interesting date and time  8-)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 25, 2011, 09:08:48 PM
TS welcome Back :D I missed you so so much. Well I never paid any attention to this issue before. I've always thought that those were the reflection of leaves. I never saw a face there. And when I look at the first picture the leaves look like an interior design but then in the second and third pictures it is all so different. I thought if it could be the reflection of the leaves outside of the ambulance. But when I watched the videos I do believe that those are added to the pictures with Photoshop. If this wasn't something important, TS would have never ever made a post about it. What could be the purpose of adding those leaves into the picture? Well the first thing that comes to my mind is; Leaves sounds like LIVES. And they're photoshopped next to Michael. Can it about trying to say that Michael LIVES, in other words Michael is Alive?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 25, 2011, 09:15:07 PM
Could it be something Michael wanted us to find out?
The single leaf is an ancient heraldic symbol said to signify happiness. Leaves, together, have different meanings though. Oak leaves are religious symbols of faith and endurance. In ancient times Bay leaves were considered remedies against poison, and thus they symbolized healing. Their image was also used as a symbol of peace and quiet. On the other hand, nettles are an ancient heraldic symbol whose leaves signal the sting of death to all foes. Ivy leaves signify strong and lasting friendship. This association is derived from ivy's ability to stay attached to a rocky surface in even the most inhospitable conditions. The woodbine is a representation of love that injures nothing to which it clings. Also called honeysuckle, the woodbine is a climbing vine that does not damage what it attaches to. And the burdock leaf, edock, or bur, which is the Scottish term for a dock-leaf, was probably a symbol of tenacity and perseverance.

Let me know what you think. blessings
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 25, 2011, 09:19:18 PM
That's interesting all4love. And we know how much Michael loves trees. Is there anyone who can find out to which tree those leaves belong to? That could mean something.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Adi on February 25, 2011, 09:22:33 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed ages ago in numerous threads regarding the ambulance pic...but do these pictures inside with MJ apparently "dying"  even match what we were is shown in the video posted of inside No. 71? They don't look like the same ambulance inside to me.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 25, 2011, 09:59:45 PM
Quote from: "Adi"
I'm sure this has been discussed ages ago in numerous threads regarding the ambulance pic...but do these pictures inside with MJ apparently "dying"  even match what we were is shown in the video posted of inside No. 71? They don't look like the same ambulance inside to me.
Good point... maybe we shouldn't pay attention to the leaves, but to the ambulance itself...?

By the way: I am now seeing a little clown instead of a face or leaves, with a pointy hat. My eyes hurt :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 25, 2011, 10:03:07 PM
Oh goodie we get to play now! I was away from the board for a moment and when I checked back in to my surprise here you go with a brain teaser puzzle. First I am glad to see your posting in this style and glad to see you back. ;)

 Next I will admit I only looked at the pictures you posted but I didn't go to the videos. I see Michael's face in the pic and I choose

Quote
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?
Do we win any prizes?

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 25, 2011, 10:05:47 PM
Quote
By the way: I am now seeing a little clown instead of a face or leaves, with a pointy hat. My eyes hurt :lol:

LMAO! I resemble that remark.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: longlivetheking on February 25, 2011, 10:07:12 PM
Does anyone know at which angle the photo was taken - in other words - was the photo taken from the back (rear) window or the side window of the ambulance?

I saw the clown with the long pointy hat as well - after much thought I disregarded it as my eyes playing tricks on me  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 25, 2011, 10:12:24 PM
Quote from: "longlivetheking"
Does anyone know at which angle the photo was taken - in other words - was the photo taken from the back (rear) window or the side window of the ambulance?

side window.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 25, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
Me in all my non-best-behavior glory on msn in convo with my hoax friend who shall remain nameless unless they chose to reveal themselves. I chose to copy/paste this because MJ needs to know this is what I think. I don't want to talk shit behind his back, I have more respect for him then that. So, take me or leave me MJ. I love you but you're seriously killing me slowly over here. Some days... I tell ya, some days.

bec says:
 yes
 acknowledgement
 balance out some of the hate talk
 but ok picy
 wtf

X says:
 yes
bec says:
 i really dont want to do this again

X says:
 lol
 I guess it's game time
 Mike must be laughing his balls off
 maybe he just shopped it in there for fun
bec says:
 and i really dont know how u can have this out there for 19 months (20) and then randomly point out some tiny little pixilation and say "ok smarties, you missed this"

X says:
 maybe it's nothing and he is peeing his pants now
bec says:
 because it wasnt missed
 someone brought this up in chat in 2009
 in the fall
 said it was a face
 people got excited for a day or so then forgot about it

X says:
 I know, but it hasn't been understood clearly
 I think that's the ppoint
bec says:
 well heres my point

X says:
 exactly
bec says:
 heres my fucking point
 my point is this: this internet aspect to the hoax had better be accidental... ie not part of the original plan because if it was thats not playing fair
 not only was it pointed out last year
 it was also pointed out in january recently
 and no one said shit
 no redirect to it

X says:
 true
 but probably not in the script yet
bec says:
 like the "murray must be arrested" thing i wrote and then ts spouts off about it 2 months later and never bothered to pay attention that i broke that news already...
 yeah but fuck the script

X says:
 maybe it's something important and weren't we allowed to know yet?
 I dunno
bec says:
 they playing like we need to think for ourselves
 and we do

X says:
 there seems to be a reason for everything
bec says:
 and so?
 so what?
 big deal
 if we are supposed to think for ourselves we have, and figured it out, and no acknowledgement that yes, thats right, thats the truth
 and then to come 2 months later and say tada!
 this is the answer
 you should have thought for yourself
 WE DID

X says:
 lol
bec says:
 im annoyed sorry

X says:
 already looking forward to your comment
 hahahahaha
bec says:
 oy

X says:
 go get him!
bec says:
 i better refrain

X says:
 lmao
bec says:
 this is MJs show
 im privately annoyed with it
 im not gonna publically piss on it
 ill say something but not like im saying to you
 ill be nicer

X says:
 what a shame
 lol
bec says:
 well
 i have respect

X says:
 I know
 but it's fun when youre on a rant
bec says:
 blah
 lol

X says:
 I see a little clown
bec says:
 i see me strangling mj
 theres me on the right

X says:
 lemme help!!
bec says:
 thats my arm
 and there he is on the left
 begging for mercy
 see?

X says:
 yes I do!!
 hahahahahaha
bec says:
 dying haha
 maybe ill post that

X says:
 hahahahahahah
bec says:
 with a little artists rendition of me strangling mj superimposed over the area in question
 so everyone can see it too

X says:
 hahahaha
bec says:
 circled of course to highlight
 ih ih
 ih and i guess flood
 oh i mean
 i guess flood
 and i fucking post that ON THE THREAD
 and no
 no
 no yes thats right
 no redirect
 nothing
 i am going to rant
 oh yes

X says:
 oh help us god!
 hahahaha
bec says:
 ima say i quit
 done
 im done with MJ who no play fair
 changes the rules in the middle of the game
 you get it right but you no win
 you still lose
 lose lose lose no matter what
 bye
 im no rat in a maze with cheese no more
 never any cheese
 just electric shock over and over

X says:
 hahahahahahahahaha
bec says:
 zap zap ZAP
 zap this MJ im outy
 consult with parker bros next time before inventing a game cuz this game SUCKS
 may b i cut n paste this convo and post that
 so that way im not talking shit behind mjs back n all
 ill blank your parts
 lol

X says:
 hahahahahahahahahhaha
 this is the best game ever and you know it!
 lolol
bec says:
 meh
 not in the mood to admit it

X says:
 god, my comp is acting weird again
 lemme check my security again
bec says:
 ok u check ima copy n paste this shit and put it up and if that means i dont get my fan hug when we are done thats fine i dont want it anyway
 so there

X says:
 LOLOL


Ps: Just for TS...

I know that you know that I was right about the 2/14 redirect. That annoys me because if you know that I was right why no redirect? Why you let us sit and ponder that for DAYS longer knowing that I called it: THE FLOOD. You and I both know what that means and I specifically asked. Now. If you DON'T know that I called it that means you didn't read the thread with your replies and if you don't read our replies then what exactly are we doing here?

Even a rat will quit trying to take the cheese if all you do is electric shock it over and over. I'm tired of being zapped TS.

TIRED.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 25, 2011, 10:31:15 PM
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: voiceforthesilent on February 25, 2011, 10:32:04 PM
Quote from: "longlivetheking"
Does anyone know at which angle the photo was taken - in other words - was the photo taken from the back (rear) window or the side window of the ambulance?

I saw the clown with the long pointy hat as well - after much thought I disregarded it as my eyes playing tricks on me  :lol:

From what we were originally shown the picture was taken from the right side.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on February 25, 2011, 10:32:51 PM
What up TS!  :P  What a clever and convenient re-direct, LOL.

For some time now, the ambulance photo(s) has reminded me of two things.  One is that post TMZ does every now and then - spot the differences.  You know, the photo that looks exactly the same side by side but there are subtle differences, yet obvious once you've spotted them.  And the hint is always that there are 3 differences.  I don't know if the two are in any way connected, it just makes me think of that.

The paramedic's hand on "MJ's" chest is the most visible in this photo (one below), the other ones it's more cut off...And this might be a silly question but is there supposed to be different photos?  Or are these different photos being passed off as the one and only ambulance photo.


The only photo that I really see the face in (apart from the close-up) is this one:

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

So the other thing that this photo makes me think of is the mysterious artist Banksy, who has been all over the L.A. area lately.  Banksy is a graffiti artist who's identity has never been confirmed.   His art is amazing and unique.  Just type in Banksy on google images.  He's even been nominated for an Oscar this year (this Sunday actually) for Best Documentary and he wanted to show up in a mask to keep his identity a secret but I'm not sure if he's allowed to or not.  It would be so cool if he showed up in a Guy Fawkes mask!  But back to the above photo, the hidden face (that I see anyways) looks like it's been drawn on, sketched on the photo somehow by an artist.  It's reminiscent of Banksy's style or something.  I hope I'm not the only one who sees that because if I am, maybe what I'm looking at isn't the same face others see.

And sometimes the pic looks like it's a photograph of the "actual" ambulance photo.

Thanks for the ambulance photo reminder - it has been making a comeback in recent months, as it should.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 25, 2011, 10:37:30 PM
@PureLove: No i wasn't chatting with TS.

I don't remember who brought up this image in chat on mjhd.com fall 2009. But it was brought up. It was discovered over a year ago. And then AGAIN in January right here on the board.

I posted this convo with my hoax friend because it covers everything I wanted to say in reply to TS's post here and I frankly didn't feel like taking the effort to formulate a proper reply. This is what I think. MJ deserves to know what I really think and how I really feel so I posted it.

So, TS wants us to guess. WE BEEN GUESSING TS, AND WE BEEN GUESSING RIGHT, AND BOTH YOU AND MJ CHOSE TO IGNORE THE RIGHT ANSWERS OVER AND OVER SO WTF ARE WE DOING HERE??

Done guessing. Done playing. Can't win. It's stacked against us. They manipulate the game play to ensure we never win. That's not fair. This game is full of hypocrisy and it's BS.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 25, 2011, 10:43:00 PM
Quote from: "bec"
@PureLove: No i wasn't chatting with TS.

I don't remember who brought up this image in chat on mjhd.com fall 2009. But it was brought up. It was discovered over a year ago. And then AGAIN in January right here on the board.

I posted this convo with my hoax friend because it covers everything I wanted to say in reply to TS's post here and I frankly didn't feel like taking the effort to formulate a proper reply. This is what I think. MJ deserves to know what I really think and how I really feel so I posted it.

So, TS wants us to guess. WE BEEN GUESSING TS, AND WE BEEN GUESSING RIGHT, AND BOTH YOU AND MJ CHOSE TO IGNORE THE RIGHT ANSWERS OVER AND OVER SO WTF ARE WE DOING HERE??

Done guessing. Done playing. Can't win. It's stacked against us. They manipulate the game play to ensure we never win. That's not fair. This game is full of hypocrisy and it's BS.

Ahh get you hun. Thank you for writing back. :) I need to read what your post was to 2/14 redirect.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 25, 2011, 10:50:25 PM
Quote from: "bec"
@PureLove: No i wasn't chatting with TS.

I don't remember who brought up this image in chat on mjhd.com fall 2009. But it was brought up. It was discovered over a year ago. And then AGAIN in January right here on the board.

I posted this convo with my hoax friend because it covers everything I wanted to say in reply to TS's post here and I frankly didn't feel like taking the effort to formulate a proper reply. This is what I think. MJ deserves to know what I really think and how I really feel so I posted it.

So, TS wants us to guess. WE BEEN GUESSING TS, AND WE BEEN GUESSING RIGHT, AND BOTH YOU AND MJ CHOSE TO IGNORE THE RIGHT ANSWERS OVER AND OVER SO WTF ARE WE DOING HERE??

Done guessing. Done playing. Can't win. It's stacked against us. They manipulate the game play to ensure we never win. That's not fair. This game is full of hypocrisy and it's BS.

Bec are you insinuating that TS and MJ know each other? Obviously the hoax is a game. Or TS IS Michael?? I am very confused. blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 25, 2011, 10:54:33 PM
The whole point is think for yourself.

Right?

Right?

Then why does it seem that TS wants to retain control over some scripted order of reveals? If we guessed it then we guessed it. Right? Level completed, we should move on. But we are being held back.

We are being held back!

Do you (collective, everyone, I mean you!) think this is playing fair?

It's like being a teacher and having your student do something right and yet you pretend they got it wrong. That's sabotage and it's underhanded and it's sneaky. Worse, it's training your student to FAIL.

But then. I guess I always knew this. This is why the original site went away isn't it MJ. Because we guessed it way back then. And you thought it was too early. Oh shit! The game was too easy! They are too smart! I didn't bet on them... I know, I'll just send in the trolls and destroy the info and infiltrate and divide and conquer. They are humans, they will succumb to their own nature. They will fight and war and argue and flame and forget allllllll about that hoax info...

Fuck that.

We guessed it back in 2009 and ever since then it's been a campaign of misinformation, distraction, and designed confusion. That's dirty pool.

I am really pissed off.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 25, 2011, 10:59:30 PM
Quote from: "bec"
The whole point is think for yourself.

Right?

Right?

Then why does it seem that TS wants to retain control over some scripted order of reveals? If we guessed it then we guessed it. Right? Level completed, we should move on. But we are being held back.

We are being held back!

Do you (collective, everyone, I mean you!) think this is playing fair?

It's like being a teacher and having your student do something right and yet you pretend they got it wrong. That's sabotage and it's underhanded and it's sneaky. Worse, it's training your student to FAIL.

But then. I guess I always knew this. This is why the original site went away isn't it MJ. Because we guessed it way back then. And you thought it was too early. Oh shit! The game was too easy! They are too smart! I didn't bet on them... I know, I'll just send in the trolls and destroy the info and infiltrate and divide and conquer. They are humans, they will succumb to their own nature. They will fight and war and argue and flame and forget allllllll about that hoax info...

Fuck that.

We guessed it back in 2009 and ever since then it's been a campaign of misinformation, distraction, and designed confusion. That's dirty pool.

I am really pissed off.


Bec the way you are talking it seems you know TS. is it Michael/ How do you know all of this?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on February 25, 2011, 11:05:43 PM
Bec - I had always thought you liked the game MJ is playing with us, that it added an element of fun and more mystery to the hoax.  I can understand your frustration and I've felt it myself but this epic performance art is supposed to elicit every emotion, in my opinion.

Just like a good movie, the odds are always stacked against the desired outcome right before the climax.  And spoilers are never fun when you really want to see if unfold in front of your own eyes.  Think for ourselves, yes, but also enjoy the ride in real-time.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: likemike on February 25, 2011, 11:06:30 PM
In the video of the inside of the ambulance, I see some kind of pattern on the inside of the walls on the left hand side of the video. This would be the wall that is visible in the ambulance photo. I'm not sure if it is just the pixels of the video recording but IMO it could have created what looks like a face.

I also think it looks like MJ's reflection except without the breathing tube. Maybe the breathing tube was photoshopped in??
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 25, 2011, 11:07:29 PM
Quote from: "bec"
The whole point is think for yourself.

Right?

Right?

Then why does it seem that TS wants to retain control over some scripted order of reveals? If we guessed it then we guessed it. Right? Level completed, we should move on. But we are being held back.

We are being held back!

Do you (collective, everyone, I mean you!) think this is playing fair?

It's like being a teacher and having your student do something right and yet you pretend they got it wrong. That's sabotage and it's underhanded and it's sneaky. Worse, it's training your student to FAIL.

But then. I guess I always knew this. This is why the original site went away isn't it MJ. Because we guessed it way back then. And you thought it was too early. Oh shit! The game was too easy! They are too smart! I didn't bet on them... I know, I'll just send in the trolls and destroy the info and infiltrate and divide and conquer. They are humans, they will succumb to their own nature. They will fight and war and argue and flame and forget allllllll about that hoax info...

Fuck that.

We guessed it back in 2009 and ever since then it's been a campaign of misinformation, distraction, and designed confusion. That's dirty pool.

I am really pissed off.


I understand what you said. But remember, TS is NOT gonna say "That's it". I think if you believe you found the answer then you should hang on to it. Otherwise MJ would be right now doing his concerts around the world (another reality) and not faked his death.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 25, 2011, 11:11:08 PM
I don't know TS anymore then you all know TS, other then having read his posts since Sept 2009.

I have my own truth, as I hope you all do. I know what I know to be real. My mind is ever open but I have faith in myself and my own perceptions and I trust my instincts. I thank Michael for that. I thank this hoax for that.

Don't get me wrong. Bad day. I chose to be here. I chose every time I click. No one makes me. But I feel intimately involved with the experience and this is me. This is where I'm at. He needs to know that because I trust that he cares to know it.

edit: @Yambo. Thanks for the cyber peptalk. Appreciated because you're right and I know it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on February 25, 2011, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: "likemike"
I also think it looks like MJ's reflection except without the breathing tube. Maybe the breathing tube was photoshopped in??

I see that too but I still think that hidden face was sketched in afterwards , on top of the actual photo.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 25, 2011, 11:21:02 PM
Quote from: "bec"
I don't know TS anymore then you all know TS, other then having read his posts since Sept 2009.

I have my own truth, as I hope you all do. I know what I know to be real. My mind is ever open but I have faith in myself and my own perceptions and I trust my instincts. I thank Michael for that. I thank this hoax for that.

Don't get me wrong. Bad day. I chose to be here. I chose every time I click. No one makes me. But I feel intimately involved with the experience and this is me. This is where I'm at. He needs to know that because I trust that he cares to know it.

edit: @Yambo. Thanks for the cyber peptalk. Appreciated because you're right and I know it.


bec, we all have those off days. Especially we want to know what really happened on June 25/2009.. strange I got married on June 24 1985...and than got divorced 18 yrs down the line. The truth will come out, but for now we have to continue investigating and keeping the faith. God bless. I have learned in life that getting angry gets the best out of us. you are not losing it, we are just tired and want Michael back.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 25, 2011, 11:30:13 PM
[youtube:8r56edbm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G5hzDwQH8Q&feature=related[/youtube:8r56edbm]

The Master is always in CONTROL!

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 25, 2011, 11:30:25 PM
I notice the images are in sequence. So, photoshop is vanishing in my possibilities. Still...it might possible. Jummm....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on February 25, 2011, 11:37:56 PM
Looking at the sequence of photos now, I notice that the pattern we see in the FIRST image, moves along in each picture, until in the last one it's gone.

So, photoshop is starting to be ruled out IMO
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on February 25, 2011, 11:53:39 PM
It's option # 3 for me. But I'm still in the dark as to the why of it ? And yes I am a cloud image conjurer ( humming happily away to myself Joni Mitchell's "Clouds".)
But here's the thing. I see at least another two faces in that first pic posted. One that looks like it could be a mask under the elbow of the paramedic who is seated.
Now this makes me think of all the other images with faces hidden amongst them like Murrey's poolside vacation pics, the doll room at encino, even the marble on Mr Gable's tomb. So what is the point of these lurking MJ faces TS? It has to be more than a representation of the man who is behind all the hoax news. Should some people be threatened because it's his face in the walls? Help a girl out here. I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I am able to be taught.  ;)
Oh and thankyou for confirming that we are getting down to the end of this hoax ride.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 26, 2011, 12:07:07 AM
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Looking at the sequence of photos now, I notice that the pattern we see in the FIRST image, moves along in each picture, until in the last one it's gone.

So, photoshop is starting to be ruled out IMO

Exactly!!  8-) But there must me something else. I'm opting for option #1.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 26, 2011, 12:07:26 AM
Quote
As we near the end: let’s go back to the beginning, and examine once more the ambulance photo. Not so much revisiting what has already been discussed numerous times, but rather taking a new look at something that has been there all along—and yet has been mostly overlooked. Some people have thought it was a face hidden in the picture {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791;
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambula ... ird-images (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images)}. However, it’s easy to see faces in random shapes such as the clouds, or mountains, etc.

Exactly.
That is why I never given the ambulance picture much thought. If you look at any picture long enough you will find something IN it.
Not to mention this was taken through a window....reflections galore.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 26, 2011, 12:17:35 AM
:shock: What up with the double post?

LOL
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 26, 2011, 12:19:10 AM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Looking at the sequence of photos now, I notice that the pattern we see in the FIRST image, moves along in each picture, until in the last one it's gone.

So, photoshop is starting to be ruled out IMO

Exactly!!  8-) But there must me something else. I'm opting for option #1.

But those are not different pictures. The one and only picture that was shot in that moment. How can there be a pattern that changes if we have only one shot of a picture? I still go with #3. :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 26, 2011, 12:19:34 AM
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/basi ... -intro.php (http://www.photoshopessentials.com/basics/layers/layers-intro.php)

From what I can gather from reading many people's thoughts on Photoshop pics (this includes other threads which talk of photoshop) many of you seem to think that Photoshop is done only one way. I read that many of you say there are no lines. I know your looking for the tracing, cut out and paste effect. That can be done that way and then the images smuged to match colors and blend together.

The other really neat thing you can do with Photoshop is LAYERS. The pic is Photoshopped using a layer effect. Click link for a tutorial  ;)

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 26, 2011, 12:43:39 AM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Looking at the sequence of photos now, I notice that the pattern we see in the FIRST image, moves along in each picture, until in the last one it's gone.

So, photoshop is starting to be ruled out IMO

Exactly!!  8-) But there must me something else. I'm opting for option #1.

But those are not different pictures. The one and only picture that was shot in that moment. How can there be a pattern that changes if we have only one shot of a picture? I still go with #3. :)

And how do we explain the paramedic's thumb (Picture #3 & #4) totally gone or not seen has in the first two photos? I'm talking about the one compressing the chest. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 26, 2011, 12:52:09 AM
The ONLY really strange thing I have ever noticed in any of these pictures or videos
is the MJ's nose.

This one looks like it has bubbles on it or something ...the other's do not.
That's it for me in this discussion.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 26, 2011, 01:09:42 AM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
Quote from: "PureLove"

But those are not different pictures. The one and only picture that was shot in that moment. How can there be a pattern that changes if we have only one shot of a picture? I still go with #3. :)

And how do we explain the paramedic's thumb (Picture #3 & #4) totally gone or not seen has in the first two photos? I'm talking about the one compressing the chest. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Totally got you. Now I wonder if that black bag look thing was added to the picture later on with a photoshop too. Or we have more than one picture taken at the same moment but from different angles.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 26, 2011, 01:17:16 AM
Quote
Totally got you. Now I wonder if that black bag look thing was added to the picture later on with a photoshop too. Or we have more than one picture taken at the same moment but from different angles.

The one in the foreground on that table thing?
I was thinking the same thing ...it looks to me like it might have slid forward...thus hiding part of the medics hand.

The guy that took these HAD to have gotten more than one shot with his rapid fire high dollar camera.

okay....I'm really out.
I mean it this time..
ALL I need is this remote control and this shoe...
 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 26, 2011, 01:17:24 AM
Sorry for the cheap explanation. I've mark the spots where I see a sequence and not a single image. Can any of you see it?


(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/thelord3003/AmbulanceSeq.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 26, 2011, 01:23:28 AM
Yambo3003

dad gummit...you made me come back ...I just refreshed. lol

Okay what I see is the medic that is holding the bag where you circled is
moving in sequence.... look at the wrinkles in the back of his shirt...
like he is turning and moving. Know what I mean?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: lilwendy on February 26, 2011, 01:26:53 AM
Ok maybe I'm taking this a little too far and my inner deepest childhood dreams of being a private investigator are resurfacing, but humor me a little.  :lol:

Here's an article giving you a quick snapshot of why I am doing this: http://www.snaphow.com/check-if-an-image-is-photoshopped-or-modified/

Error level analysis allows you see to see the difference in quality level, represented by brightness. Things which are very bright have been edited most recently, whilst duller parts have been resaved multiple times. This allows you to see not just which parts of the image have been changed, but in what order the changes occurred.

Example:
(http://www.snaphow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/CheckifanImageisPhotoshoppedorModified.jpg)

So here are the ambulance pics put through this analysis:

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/50/23310311.jpg)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9995/19847596.jpg)

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/29/15643857.jpg)

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9434/27593297.jpg)

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2786/35569690.jpg)

Here is the explanation of the pics given by the website:

Explanation
Error level analysis is a quick and easy image forensics method, allowing one to determine if an image has been modified by programs such as Adobe Photoshop.
It works by resaving an image at a known quality, and comparing that to the original image. As a jpeg image is resaved over and over again, its image quality decreases. When we resave an image and compare it to the original, we can guess just how many times the image has been resaved. If an image has not been manipulated, all parts of the image should have been saved an equal amount of times. If parts of the image are from different source files, they may have been saved a number of different times, and thus they will stand out as a different colour in the ELA test.
It is worth noting that edges and areas red in colour are often depicted as brighter in the ELA tests. This due to the way the photos are saved by various programs. It is not proof that image was manipulated.
If you are unsure how to interpret the results, please do not claim the results of this tool as proof of anything.

I bolded this because I have no clue how to really interpret these results. Also the accuracy of this device is questionable.  But like I said, humor me.

From what I've read and the examples I've seen, it appears that the first picture with just the arm is all the same colors so most likely not altered. On the other hand, the other pics, the whole reflection seems is a manipulation, the badges on the arms of the paramedics are added in, and the yellow thing in the lower left is as well.  But again, this is my untrained interpretation.

Does anyone else have more experience with this and can add anything?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 26, 2011, 01:27:29 AM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Yambo3003

dad gummit...you made me come back ...I just refreshed. lol

Okay what I see is the medic that is holding the bag where you circled is
moving in sequence.... look at the wrinkles in the back of his shirt...
like he is turning and moving. Know what I mean?

Yes! Perfectly. Still think is a sequence.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 26, 2011, 01:36:54 AM
TS, it always makes my day when you talk to us! Everything just seems A-Okay with the hoax business!

Intriguing puzzle piece! I'm pretty much stumped, but just my thoughts it seems like it has to be several images, as if the red car was caught in 3 frames moving past the ambulance window, because the vine moves towards the forearm, the headlights move along, the shadow moves and covers the thumb pressing on the chest, and the shadow moves covering MJ's nose. Someone was talking about photoshopping in layers, so was the whole car reflection added in as another layer on the MJ and EMT in the vehicle to make the picture look authentic. There had been some discussion on whether it was even possible to take a photo through the darkened windows. So maybe the photo was taken inside the vehicle and the reflection layered in afterward. Who would take the photo inside the ambulance? Why--Michael of course. And maybe Ben Evanstead only took the pic of the outside of the vehicle with the car reflection. I still can't figure out the vine significance. Actually it looks like a Jack-in-the-beanstalk to me![attachment=0:1qs45rpd]PatternClose-up[1].jpg[/attachment:1qs45rpd]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: cybersource on February 26, 2011, 01:40:02 AM
Im not looking too hard ;)  but I pick #3..I took copy of this zoomed in arm pic provided then turned its on its head and I saw a feaky MJ wearing a Dave Dave style hat. And Bec ur emotions are right its been a long run. Im not just a believer but a Knower and a follower of this forum, and I gotta tell you Ive never felt the need to post until this moment. Im telling you believers out there right now.. I see something, something shopped or painted in! Its not natural. Okay so whats next TS. Im confident on this round, do I pass through the poppy field and get to see the great OZ?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 26, 2011, 01:49:35 AM
First of all the first words that you wrote TS made me smile, I feel that the end of the hoax is close.

To me I think it's photo-shopped but it kinda looks like the MJ photo-shopped pic but mirrored if you get what I mean. MJ lying on the gurney but if you flip his face it looks like the same pic.
The reason why I think it's photo-shopped is because I don't see the point of TS posting something that is just leaves.

Who's face is it supposed to be TS...is it supposed to be yours or someone else, or is it not a face?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJTheGreat15 on February 26, 2011, 02:23:31 AM
I think there is definitely a face added to the first picture! To me it looks like Jesus with the crown of thorns on, looking over Michael.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 26, 2011, 02:25:30 AM
This is from 1:54, and the leaves on the wall kinda look like the design.[attachment=0:duv59uzy]mj wall.jpg[/attachment:duv59uzy]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on February 26, 2011, 02:34:04 AM
There are quite a few other MJ faces within that face . One of them being a caricature drawing. This is making me think of the dots portrait.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on February 26, 2011, 03:32:57 AM
As someone else stated, when the pic is flipped, the face looks a lot  like Dave Dave in a cap. Someone is a very clever artist. They can draw a picture within a picture within a picture ect. Would that be your work Michael? I beLIEve you're pretty handy with a pencil and paper.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 26, 2011, 03:36:39 AM
Sorry if I'm way off here. I'm just continuing on my above thought that it looks like Jack in the Beanstalk. Jack is part of MJ's name. (The story fits his climb to spiritual insight and hopeful slaying of the giant of whatever evil powers.) I'm just thinking that Michael may have used cannibas/marijuana to relief pain for his injuries/illness because it doesn't have harmful side effects, but it is seen by TPTB as evil. (They spend billions on erradicating it while other crimes go unpunished, why so bent on this one plant?) On the other hand the hoax portrays MJ as taking all these harmful drugs prescribed by doctors that bring an early death to many people. This article shows that for thousands of years cannibas was used for bringing spiritual enlightenment, and because the Catholic church had banned it, the fairy story was told in cryptic form to hide it being about Jack using cannabis to gain spiritual enlightment. MJ claimed to have psychic ability and his marijuana use may have heightened this ability.

Quote
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/conte ... ns-bedroom (http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/marijuana-found-michael-jacksons-bedroom)
The discovery of marijuana in Michael Jackson's bedroom prompted investigators to search the pop star's mansion for other drugs. But lab tests found no marijuana, cocaine or heroin in Jackson's system.
Rotting marijuana that Michael Jackson's family members mistook for heroin briefly caused detectives to look for further evidence of the illegal drug in the pop star's rented residence during the frenzied 48 hours after his death, according to sources close to the investigation.
Quote
http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/175.html (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/175.html)
If people wanted to survive the Dark Ages and use cannabis they had better be discreet in referring to it.  Both Rabelais and the medieval European farmers used the word “bean”[21] in conjunction with hemp .  The Europeans used the term in a celebration, King and Queen of the bean, done in the hopes of having a tall hemp crop.

Consider if you will the tale of "Jack and the Beanstalk."  Jack is “the widow’s son.”  This term is often used to refer to an initiate starting out on the path.  For example, it is used in reference to Jesus, Parzival in the famous Grail Romances, and it was a cherished designation in Freemasonry.  The cow that young Jack trades for the beans is his sacred cow that he must sacrifice if he wants to discover the truth of things.  A parallel can easily be drawn between Jack’s reluctant trade of the family cow and the of the Magi saviour Mithra s, who slew the sacred bull unwillingly, and obtained the sacred vine of the mysteries.  The beans are hemp seeds which will enable him to climb to the place of the Giants.  The angry Giant is a manifestation of Jack’s personal demons that have been exposed and magnified by his climb up the beanstalk, or more precisely by his ingestion of hemp.  Although this journey is fraught with danger, young Jack has the chance to hear the heavenly music of the Golden Harp, cast from the fine Gold of the true alchemists.  And if the young hero is able to overcome the Giant, who represents his own lower nature, he will be able to return home and share the music of the Golden harp with his widowed mother and the rest of humanity.

A similar cryptic reference to the magnifying potentials of cannabis as that provided in Jack and the Beanstalk, can be found in The Conference of Birds, where Sufi author Attar uses the parrot as a hidden reference to hashish.  Attar writes of the parrot's arrival: “Welcome, O Parrot! In your beautiful robe and collar of fire, this collar is fitting for a dweller in the underworld but your robe is worthy of Heaven. Can Abraham save himself from the fire of Nimrod?  Break the head of Nimrod and become the friend of Abraham, who was the friend of God.  When you have been delivered from the hands of Nimrod put on your robe of glory and fear not the collar of fire.” [22]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on February 26, 2011, 03:57:33 AM
I altered some of the contrast and colors of one of the photos, and it actually looks like the red car is in front of MJ head. That cannot be the case if that is just a reflection. Look here:

(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/moonter/ambu.jpg)

and on the other photo it is supposed to be the leg of the rescue team?

(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/moonter/Ambulance1.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on February 26, 2011, 04:11:46 AM
If the ambulance photo is fake like it was said before(now I see TS has 4 ambul;ane photos, I thought it was only one  :?  :?  :? ) why should we pay any attention to the details in a fake photo?
Anyway, what hurts my eyes is to see Michael lying down there and maybe, maybe it was him....who knows...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on February 26, 2011, 04:17:13 AM
I think it's edited and looks like chinese letters to me.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on February 26, 2011, 04:36:05 AM
LOL Bec I was just reading your posts here.
Remembered me of a post of mine  months ago, saying that when we're about to understand the rules of this game, people in charge change them....talking about running in circles :roll:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 26, 2011, 04:41:53 AM
I think we could use a hint TS, our eyes hurt! :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bleu eyes on February 26, 2011, 05:06:24 AM
in the ambulance a patient is laying with his head towards the driver, if you see the inside of te ambulance it's not possible, the paramedics seats are on the rong side. especially if you see the video that the ambulance is from michael's driveway on it's way to the hospital, i'm not really sure someone is pointing to this earlier.....

TS, thank you for the redirect i really L.O.V.E it
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on February 26, 2011, 05:08:43 AM
*rtrl*
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on February 26, 2011, 05:47:15 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Based on watching the video of the wall behind the red car, I'm leaning towards it being a reflection of those leaves hanging over the wall.

Because there isn't anything in the ambulance that looks like the leaves pattern...and I don't think it's photoshopped.

It's not the wall either, because the leaves are hanging there, and this looks more like a sprout. There also should have been more reflection than that. I would say photoshopped, but  can't see for what reason (yet).

I have not read the thread yet because I have to go, but it is both, showing the leaves at the wall and it is photoshopped because it is flipped (as almost everything in this case LOL).

"Original 1" posted by TS_comments:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)

A still from the video:
[attachment=2:13gu4sr3]leavesonwall.jpg[/attachment:13gu4sr3]

I inverted both:
[attachment=1:13gu4sr3]leavesonwall_2.jpg[/attachment:13gu4sr3]

[attachment=0:13gu4sr3]PatternClose-up_inv.jpg[/attachment:13gu4sr3]

If the leaves would have been mirrored in the window, they would still point to the earth yet they are pointing upwards in the ambulance photo thus creating the "face".

The reason why the ambulance pictures were shopped?
To show us how much reality is being twisted upside-down and yet sold as the one and only truth.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: angel on February 26, 2011, 06:58:47 AM
Thanks, TS. :)   "As we near the end".  These are the 5 words that mean the most to me.  Since timing is everything in this, I think now must be the time to reveal this important piece of the hoax.  The photo seems to have many layers, reminding me of TIAI Update #5a.  Layers seem to be a recurring theme here.  Btw, Happy Birthday, Miko!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 26, 2011, 07:08:27 AM
here is the picture of Michael flipped I don't see that he looks like Dave Dave. If you look carefully it is not him. Compare this picture to the old pictures of Michael, and new picture of Michael,for me he does not look like him I want to show you the file attachment but it tells me the board attchment quota has been reached. How can I add the attachement?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on February 26, 2011, 07:12:13 AM
Maybe the emphasis is on the fact that there is a relection of the outside in those pics.

But what I don't understand is why  there isn't any reflections of the camera and Ben holding it..

This is a comparison made by Tristan from MJHoax live, and you can clearly see the camera reflection in both windows, even when the ambulance is out of the sun...and undercover..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 26, 2011, 07:29:03 AM
I was rewatching the day of the ambulance. There was a red car, you can see briefly, very fast. One thing puzzled me, which I have been watching this video so much but I never noticed, when the ambulance left #71 inside the gates there was another ambulance, than they closed the gates, the ambulance remained there. Where did it go? Why 2 ambulances?  is it for a decoy, so that was Michaels escape? That's why the ambulance couldn't make the turn and come out the other way so it would have prevented to go back and forth?  Look at it, here is the link, check for yourselves. Like I said, I saw it so many times but never saw another ambulance behind the gates.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: sandythyme on February 26, 2011, 07:40:19 AM
Hi everyone I know I am  way off base here.  I am in great need of another cup of coffee.  So just humor me please.  The picture in the ambulance and the trees remind me of this...We know that Michael is a fan of the Wizard of OZ, being the Scarecrow and all.  So, in the Wizard of OZ, Dorothy and the Scarecrow are following the yellow brick road, they stop and Dorothy picks an apple.  Do you guys remember this?  The witch makes the trees come ALIVE ....the tree says why are you picking my apple.  Tree limbs, vines and leaves going after Dorothy and the Scarecrow, they get away and they come across the Tin Man who became rusty so long ago and was stuck.  Dorothy took his oil can and they oiled him and he was able to move again.  This picture we are seeing reminds me of the Tin Man as he looks up to the sky with his eyes closed with great relief and thankfulness to Dorothy and the Scarecrow.  (I have actually seen a similar picture of the Tin Man looking like this).  This was the beginning of the journey for the Tin Man with his new friends.  So this picture to me is Michael beginning his new journey now that the hoax is in place and oh yeah he is driving away in the red car.  I am such a nut this morning!  Take care, Love to All!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yulia on February 26, 2011, 08:43:51 AM
how do you know, TS_ comments, we are near the end?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: trustno1 on February 26, 2011, 08:54:08 AM
Sandythyme Good thinking, and I think this one is going to drive us all nuts for a while!  Too often I've felt like the scarecrow in this journey...if I only had a brain! :lol: Thanks TS for confirming what I felt instinctively, that it's almost over, almost bittersweet as that may be! ;) The fact that we've got one particular thing to focus on and decipher is welcome.  There are so many things that we attempt to decode when they might not be relevant at all, it can make your head spin!
 Grace I think you had some great insight about the whole aspect of twisted reality and how we (or most people) accept it as reality.  PureLove when you said leaves sounds like "lives" and it might point to the fact that he's alive, I couldn't help think that it could also mean what it sounds like "Michael leaves".  Of course he did leave at that time but he'll be back!  So many things to ponder and interpret...Great to see so many sharp intuitive minds all working together to try and figure out this latest puzzle!  When we all come together like this and nobody knows for sure the answer it really does feel like a big family.  When this is all over I'm going to miss this most of all! :(
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on February 26, 2011, 09:00:06 AM
Good Morning Hoaxland & TS!

Great way to start the day........however, not my favorite of things...the ambulance picture.  Sorry, TS.
When we were first introduced to this photo through the media, I avoided it like the plague.  I eventually started to look at it, but found it to be immediately questionable.  I just automatically figured it must be fake, so I didn't give it too much thought.  Over the months, I have read about this and that within the picture.....commenting briefly.  For personal reasons, much like the Hold My Hand video, I find it hard to really look at. (sometimes, I think I am just way too sensitive).  But, enough about that.....I am interested in this thread, of course.  I have always thought the ambulance holds many answers. It has bothered me from the start.  
TS, you talk about the wall etc.  Given the direction of the ambulance at the time the photo was supposedly taken, what wall?  The wall across the street?  In the full video, I see the red car briefly with a wall (I suppose). However, I fail to see how that wall could be what you are talking about.  The angle of the photo inside and pointing down to the gurney area.....far away from the other side of the street.  It can't be the wall from the driveway.....the ambulance window is on the other side.  I guess I must be missing something.  One thing that has always bothered me about the photographer (supposedly Ben)....his shirt is red in the video.  But in still shots, I see a person in yellow.  I have to just post links here....maybe someone would be kind enough to help this gal out ( ;) )
1) the video...watch where the window is in relation to the wall/red car....and look at the photographer's shirt color:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)
2) here is a still shot of a photographer....is it suppose to be the same guy, getting the famous last shot?  If so....shirt color changed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36837568@N00/4310970316/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36837568@N00/4310970316/)
3)The Ben Evenstad video interviews have always bothered me.  I feel like both the red shirt guy, and the yellow shirt guy are featured:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=613h-A7RUFo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=613h-A7RUFo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2 ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4&feature=related)

I think I need coffee....pretty sure, actually.
Thank you TS....another brain-storming session for sure!  

Blessings Always!
Wishingstar

"Everything I know, I know because of love."
Leo Tolstoy- War and Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on February 26, 2011, 09:10:10 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
I think we could use a hint TS, our eyes hurt! :lol:

+1  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on February 26, 2011, 09:53:34 AM
Thanks for these TS.  The inside of Ambulance 71 doesn't seem to match the NPG ambulance picture. It also shows that a photo taken through the window might only reflect the camera and photographer.  This reminds me of BAD when they're sitting on the stairs talking about the glasses with no glass in them. If the camera is close to the window then I would think there should be no reflection of anything from behind the photographer but if there is a reflection then we should see the camera/flash and photographer in that reflection.  

I'm sure I saw a video of the ambulance backing out that showed the red car wasn't in the right position to be reflected in Ben's photo.

This is my favourite hoax day video -  
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae ... d-10974241 (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-neverland-10974241)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 26, 2011, 10:30:08 AM
I am going to see this later, the first thing occurs to me is what has already been discussed before, how took the photo has been through a glass polarized?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: youngatheart on February 26, 2011, 12:25:13 PM
Thanks TS for yet another perplexing puzzle


After watching the video I would say this is photoshopped because if you look at the leaves hanging on the wall they are not close in relation to the red car.  So one or both must have been added later.  Plus for the photographer to be able to get this picture the angle would have been all wrong.  JMO

Love and Blessings
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on February 26, 2011, 12:27:07 PM
Hello TS  thank you for posting these photos, I have looked closely till my eyes cross :lol:

And to my amazement, and I have looked at this picture many times, where you posted the first picture blow up of the paramedics arm, to the left of the arm I can see a picture of MJs FACE  :shock:   Wow, never saw that before, now it jumps off the page, cannot believe I never saw that before, I guess the arm, and the pipe from the oxegen mask just frames it.

I have gone to other copies of the photograph not just this one on this thread, and there in plain sight is the face, it is clear on the photo on the front index also.  Things can be under your nose and you dont see them.  

Thanks I will look again more closely at other things too, we must be missing other things also.

L.O.V.E.

 :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 26, 2011, 12:33:24 PM
So if this picture is supposed to be leaves or MJ's face, what is the significance to the hoax? It would be great for your opinion TS on what's been said on this thread when your ready. :)  :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 26, 2011, 12:42:16 PM
Quote from: "MJTheGreat15"
I think there is definitely a face added to the first picture! To me it looks like Jesus with the crown of thorns on, looking over Michael.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Shroud_positive_negative_compare.jpg/330px-Shroud_positive_negative_compare.jpg)
Quote
MJhasSpoken wrote:
Who's face is it supposed to be TS...is it supposed to be yours or someone else, or is it not a face?
[youtube:2n5ba32c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL6pSkMZnWo[/youtube:2n5ba32c]
This is one of the first videos I watched a year ago regarding the Shroud of Turin relating it to Michael and his death hoax. I still think the ambulance pic is done in layers using Photoshop.  ;)

Peace

p.s. I think the pic of the body is a wax dummy of Michael and the pic was taken way before 6/25/2009. The other stuff like the intubation tube and the collar thingy is another layer (pic).

Edited to add: Regarding the Photoshopped pic in the video of Dave Dave in costume as Kojak, I know the lady who did the pic. I am friends with her on myspace and facebook for over a year now...lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MichiS97 on February 26, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
I think the face is just a random reflection from the leaves of the trees outside or the trousers from the rescue Team. There is a story I can tell about these reflections:
I once listened to Will You Be There in my room while playing with my wii.Then I lay the Wiimote on my bed. And as a coincedence my blanket was pressed in so its shadow looked like a face, with a very thin nose and a chin cleft. Furthermore did the bandage of the wiimote hang over the blanket so it did look a curl like MJ has. Then I saw this reflection on the wall and hadn't thought about my bed, cuz i thought that the reflection came from the booster of my guitar and my Bad LP lieing on it so I put them away. So, of course the shadow didn't go away. This scared the shit out of me. I had been watching this hilarious "Ghost of Neverland" video, and I really thought "Come on, you know he is alive, this isn't something like his ghost..." And then I sat on my bed and the shadow of course moved. This was so scary because I was tired and hadn't been thinking! :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on February 26, 2011, 12:56:25 PM
Ow come on guys.......
All the 4 pictures that TS is showing in the ambulance are photoshopped......
It should be the same picture so don't tell me it's the angle..... ;)
Spot the differencessssssssssssssssssssss....... :D
Does that sound familiar?

Chaps


[attachment=0:glky83b3]spot the.jpg[/attachment:glky83b3]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AnaMarcia on February 26, 2011, 02:04:53 PM
Certainly they are different photos or capture videos at different times. In one you can see the entire wheel of the car. Other shows difference in the position of arms and hands of paramedics. In the last picture, the paramedic's leg is lower, showing more face's Michael.
These are details that I have never seen or condition.
Watching the second video posted by TS, is even clearer that it is impossible for someone to get a picture visible in an ambulance with tall glasses and totally dark. So to me, can only be photoshop!

TS, you said you would be in this discussion. Would no longer be on time?
And thanks for confirming that we are in the final game. I hope with all my heart that's true and final one is really happy for us!

Big hug!  :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 26, 2011, 02:11:17 PM
(http://mountcope.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/cry.jpg)

HELP!!!  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on February 26, 2011, 02:18:21 PM
I first would have said that it is part of the interior design because where the shadow of the paramedic meets the leaf-like pattern it becomes darker, shouldn't it be the contrary?  Now after having watched the video i don't see anything that could have created that effect  :? . I don't think it is part of the secondary picture because of that leaf which seems to be like floating and is not attached to the rest...leads more to a photoshop but i don't see how it can be proven.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: a18wheelslady on February 26, 2011, 02:19:46 PM
looks like it was taken with a video camera and when they posted the pictures they just took one frame at a time.

Hi TS nice to see you again
Hugssssssssssssssssssss    :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 26, 2011, 02:25:43 PM
Quote from: "a18wheelslady"
looks like it was taken with a video camera and when they posted the pictures they just took one frame at a time.

Hi TS nice to see you again
Hugssssssssssssssssssss    :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

I thought about this possibility too! Either way, if the reflection of the leaves and the car are real in my opinion the Ambulance was driving the opposite direction. Just saying...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on February 26, 2011, 02:27:45 PM
So maybe we are the ones making this a game.  Maybe we are the ones saying there is something to figure out.  Maybe the clues are just what they are.  To let us know he's alive.  I'm tired of trying to figure something out that there probably are no answers to or if there are and we get them, the answers change, then come back at sometime.
I choose to just observe and wait.  So much is going to happen soon and we get anxious waiting for it and also restless as to what we may have to hear and endure, maybe with no solution anyhow.
I know I'll still have thoughts and ideas and responses, but this is controlling my life (yours too??) and I'm really NOT living mine so much since Michael left.  I feel like if I'm away from the computer or tv something will happen TREMENDOUSLY  important, like THAT day, and I'll miss it as it happens, and I won't do that after all this time and work!!
But, I'm not going to jump on every bandwagon or idea and run with it cuz it will disappear just as fast as it came and leave us all arguing to make this idea THE solution to it all and I'm mentally and physically worn out.  My sleep is f**ked up!!  My heart pounds and I have stress aches in my belly...just from the adrenaline of finding a new idea.
Michael...to you, maybe you really didn't know how much we love you and worry for you.  This is really depressing us who hold onto you and beLIEVe.  Please hurry home to us :)) safely, of course.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: dom425 on February 26, 2011, 02:45:26 PM
Quote from: "Yulia"
how do you know, TS_ comments, we are near the end?
That is  what I was thinking too. Sometimes I wonder if you have any contact with Michael and you don't want to tell anyone. How can you be so sure it's near the end? What if it is not then what?
I am sorry if I seem out of line but I am very surprised that you know what you know. I would be very grateful if you would explane how you know this. Please tell us. Thank you and may God bless you.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on February 26, 2011, 02:49:19 PM
ok i haven't paid much attention to this aspect because from the get go everyone thought fake. now questions. is the thing supposed to be moving at this point? if so how many guys on a team? three could somebody get the effect of looking through glass and be right there in the vehicle? i find this a little interesting to show up after we learned yesterday that the kids actually had training in the area film making and the place they got it is directly connected to the hospital. or did i not get that info properly? :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: voiceforthesilent on February 26, 2011, 03:02:13 PM
Quote
MJonmymind said: There had been some discussion on whether it was even possible to take a photo through the darkened windows. So maybe the photo was taken inside the vehicle and the reflection layered in afterward. Who would take the photo inside the ambulance? Why--Michael of course. And maybe Ben Evanstead only took the pic of the outside of the vehicle with the car reflection.

This is also what I was thinking. That perhaps these are several pictures taken at different times/places. One picture was taken inside of the ambulance or maybe if it were a prop the picture could have been taken somewhere else with the ambulance side cut open so that  they could take a picture of the inside, like they do in the movies. Then, on the day of shooting they took a picture while the ambulance was moving and married these two pictures together along with shadows of the car that was outside in order to convince people that it was real.

Remember what Ben said..."that day and the o...."

As far as the face reflection - hard to say as it does look like a face and then upon further study it also looks like leaves.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on February 26, 2011, 03:06:05 PM
There is a video of the ambulance leaving Carolwood.  There is a pap taking a pic on the side of the ambulance.  Is that the one who supposedly took this infamous pic??  As, I've seen no one else by it taking a pic.  
Well, that guy wasn't close to the window...I doubt his face would've reflected, and the camera was in front of his face also.
So...ugh...here I am again, putting my ONE cent in where I told myself I'd stay out from doing.....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 26, 2011, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: "chappie"
Ow come on guys.......
All the 4 pictures that TS is showing in the ambulance are photoshopped......
It should be the same picture so don't tell me it's the angle..... ;)
Spot the differencessssssssssssssssssssss....... :D
Does that sound familiar?

Chaps


[attachment=0:2bntcsjf]spot the.jpg[/attachment:2bntcsjf]

I have to agree with Chappie. Almost everything in that picture is photoshopped. :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on February 26, 2011, 03:25:13 PM
Quote from: "Elsa"
I'm sure I saw a video of the ambulance backing out that showed the red car wasn't in the right position to be reflected in Ben's photo.


OK, so back to the ambulance.  :mrgreen:
You are right - compared to the movies we were presented, we may doubt where and how the photos were composed.

We should consider a little bit more material.

Remember the EXIF data of one of the pictures showed 12:08 as creation hour.
That's 18 minutes before the ambulance allegedly arrived.

This is the video of the "proof picture" which is only proving the fact that several takes were executed but not the fact that Christopher Weiss shot that sequence of photos: he's in bright sunlight without any tree shadows as seen on the famous pictures:

[youtube:2vrh8625]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:2vrh8625]

Evenstad is not saying the truth stating in the video he could see Michael's face through the window. He was not there in front of the side window - at least not in the material we saw. He was not even the one shooting the "proof" photo, since he was not down the street. He was also not at the window in the "proof" photo and also not in the Hollywood TV video. Ben was sitting in his car, the red Toyota Prius, while the ambulance backed out. You see this for a second (1:36) in the Hollywood TV video when the video filmer is running back to his car.
The "proof" photo is showing the yellow shirt guy taking the photo in the middle of the road (and not the red shirt guy from the video who stood in front of the yellow shirt guy there). The angle of the camera of the yellow shirt guy is even wrong. Impossible to shoot the picture like this. Only the red shirt guy could have shot it, but in the Hollywood TV movie, he's running away too fast and DOESN'T EVEN LOOK into the window but turns his head to the left.
This is the exact way how to NOT shoot a good sequence of pics.

It's getting better: in an interview, Weiss stated this:
Quote
Yeah, and did you notice his so called offhand comment…
“We couldn't see inside the ambulance,” Weiss continues “For all I knew when I was taking the pictures, Michael could have been sitting up on a gurney with oxygen on It's like he knew what was going on inside it…..
(credit to Morgana on MJHD.com, July 27, 2009)

In another video about the ambulance picture, Ben is telling more fairy tales.
Watch the seconds as of 1:14 - the video keeps hanging in on that blurry something and is showing the red car again (and the wall behind it - see the leaves even would have had to move 7 feet forwards to come close to the car front and become part of a mirroring thingie - photoshop... :mrgreen:)

[youtube:2vrh8625]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:2vrh8625]

Why would a cristal clear video have to be hanging in on a blurry somethingie for seconds?


Now thanks to international interest, someone saved the TMZ video version for us:

http://www.wat.tv/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-1lnmx_2exyf_.html

The tourist bus is parking in parallel to the fire truck, not close to the pylones as in the Hollywood TV movie. Please watch for the shadows, they are much longer now than in the Hollywood TV movie, watch the crack in the middle of the road and compare both films.
In the Hollywood TV movie, there's no shadow at all in sight in the middle of the road, the garbage bins and the folks at the back door are in sunshine.
In the TMZ movie, the ambulance backs out into the shadow of the trees at the right side of the street.

Coming back to the role of the red car in the "reflection" of the tinted side window.
The red Toyota Prius (Ben Evenstad's car that he reportedly had lent for joyrides to Michael) was parked right in front of the gate when the ambulance backed out, when the water ran through the house some days later (see thread on TIAI Feb 14 redirect) and when the mourning fans gathered (see video TS_comments cited - at the last two occasions: parked at Monovale).
Seems that its owner still was around that address all the time - despite the fact that the owner allegedly had passed away and was - to be honest - not a hot selling target anymore.
I mean, NPG had shot "THE" photo and Ben still was not satisfied? (Or suspicious or what?)

It still gets weirder:
This is a tweet from e-online on June 26, 2009:
Michael Jackson Death-Site Scene: Weird http://tinyurl.com/p8ul4u (http://tinyurl.com/p8ul4u)
5:46 PM Jun 26th, 2009 via twitterfeed
http://twitter.com/eonline/status/2352632965

The link takes you to this site giving an impression of the situation on the street on June 26, 2009:
http://de.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b131487_michael_jackson_death-site_scene_weird.html
Interesting article btw.

What do we see on that photo?
The lined-up garbage bins - and a red Toyota Prius parked in a cop protected area. Huh?

What was it looking like on June 25, 2009 in the afternoon according to life.com:
http://www.life.com/image/88688298
No red Toyota Prius that day. Hidden behind the truck?

I think the car and its driver are much more interesting than the ambulance photo as such.
How come a red Toyota Prius was present in a closed area with cops presence the day after the alleged passing of Michael Jackson?

Btw, behind the Prius a dark SUV was parked (the type Michael used) and the license plate is also visible in the Hollywood TV movie.
Was the master watching and directing the takes from the outside?
Just asking.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on February 26, 2011, 03:55:17 PM
btw, I just realized that there was this glimpse of some red car in the video from O2 arena announcement.

I have no idea if these two are connected, but I have always wondered about this red car poster on the wall.

Look at 3.50 in this video:

[youtube:1u0bg6dj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKaySqh1XPU[/youtube:1u0bg6dj]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on February 26, 2011, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Me in all my non-best-behavior glory on msn in convo with my hoax friend who shall remain nameless unless they chose to reveal themselves. I chose to copy/paste this because MJ needs to know this is what I think. I don't want to talk shit behind his back, I have more respect for him then that. So, take me or leave me MJ. I love you but you're seriously killing me slowly over here. Some days... I tell ya, some days.

bec says:
 yes
 acknowledgement
 balance out some of the hate talk
 but ok picy
 wtf

X says:
 yes
bec says:
 i really dont want to do this again

X says:
 lol
 I guess it's game time
 Mike must be laughing his balls off
 maybe he just shopped it in there for fun
bec says:
 and i really dont know how u can have this out there for 19 months (20) and then randomly point out some tiny little pixilation and say "ok smarties, you missed this"

X says:
 maybe it's nothing and he is peeing his pants now
bec says:
 because it wasnt missed
 someone brought this up in chat in 2009
 in the fall
 said it was a face
 people got excited for a day or so then forgot about it

X says:
 I know, but it hasn't been understood clearly
 I think that's the ppoint
bec says:
 well heres my point

X says:
 exactly
bec says:
 heres my fucking point
 my point is this: this internet aspect to the hoax had better be accidental... ie not part of the original plan because if it was thats not playing fair
 not only was it pointed out last year
 it was also pointed out in january recently
 and no one said shit
 no redirect to it

X says:
 true
 but probably not in the script yet
bec says:
 like the "murray must be arrested" thing i wrote and then ts spouts off about it 2 months later and never bothered to pay attention that i broke that news already...
 yeah but fuck the script

X says:
 maybe it's something important and weren't we allowed to know yet?
 I dunno
bec says:
 they playing like we need to think for ourselves
 and we do

X says:
 there seems to be a reason for everything
bec says:
 and so?
 so what?
 big deal
 if we are supposed to think for ourselves we have, and figured it out, and no acknowledgement that yes, thats right, thats the truth
 and then to come 2 months later and say tada!
 this is the answer
 you should have thought for yourself
 WE DID

X says:
 lol
bec says:
 im annoyed sorry

X says:
 already looking forward to your comment
 hahahahaha
bec says:
 oy

X says:
 go get him!
bec says:
 i better refrain

X says:
 lmao
bec says:
 this is MJs show
 im privately annoyed with it
 im not gonna publically piss on it
 ill say something but not like im saying to you
 ill be nicer

X says:
 what a shame
 lol
bec says:
 well
 i have respect

X says:
 I know
 but it's fun when youre on a rant
bec says:
 blah
 lol

X says:
 I see a little clown
bec says:
 i see me strangling mj
 theres me on the right

X says:
 lemme help!!
bec says:
 thats my arm
 and there he is on the left
 begging for mercy
 see?

X says:
 yes I do!!
 hahahahahaha
bec says:
 dying haha
 maybe ill post that

X says:
 hahahahahahah
bec says:
 with a little artists rendition of me strangling mj superimposed over the area in question
 so everyone can see it too

X says:
 hahahaha
bec says:
 circled of course to highlight
 ih ih
 ih and i guess flood
 oh i mean
 i guess flood
 and i fucking post that ON THE THREAD
 and no
 no
 no yes thats right
 no redirect
 nothing
 i am going to rant
 oh yes

X says:
 oh help us god!
 hahahaha
bec says:
 ima say i quit
 done
 im done with MJ who no play fair
 changes the rules in the middle of the game
 you get it right but you no win
 you still lose
 lose lose lose no matter what
 bye
 im no rat in a maze with cheese no more
 never any cheese
 just electric shock over and over

X says:
 hahahahahahahahaha
bec says:
 zap zap ZAP
 zap this MJ im outy
 consult with parker bros next time before inventing a game cuz this game SUCKS
 may b i cut n paste this convo and post that
 so that way im not talking shit behind mjs back n all
 ill blank your parts
 lol

X says:
 hahahahahahahahahhaha
 this is the best game ever and you know it!
 lolol
bec says:
 meh
 not in the mood to admit it

X says:
 god, my comp is acting weird again
 lemme check my security again
bec says:
 ok u check ima copy n paste this shit and put it up and if that means i dont get my fan hug when we are done thats fine i dont want it anyway
 so there

X says:
 LOLOL


Ps: Just for TS...

I know that you know that I was right about the 2/14 redirect. That annoys me because if you know that I was right why no redirect? Why you let us sit and ponder that for DAYS longer knowing that I called it: THE FLOOD. You and I both know what that means and I specifically asked. Now. If you DON'T know that I called it that means you didn't read the thread with your replies and if you don't read our replies then what exactly are we doing here?

Even a rat will quit trying to take the cheese if all you do is electric shock it over and over. I'm tired of being zapped TS.

TIRED.

Hi Bec,

I must say, I was taken aback  :o by your irritation at the Puppet Master(s). You have ranted at Gamesters before, but to me you always had purpose and seemed like a sport.  :)  I know you are just tired. Too much hard gaming.

I'm not trying to suppress your "right to rail when ronged", but...er... :? This is supposed to be FUN, eh?

The reason many of the folks (on this site, at least), have gotten angry, frightened, hysterical, disgusted, and taken things too personally, and become high strung at various twists and turns in the GAME, is because none of us have ever played a game like this----for 20 months, non stop, especially with a Puppet Master who is terminally NUTS, with a whole Circus Fun House in his head. ;)  :D  8-)

Once you realize THAT, it's  like, "OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. OK! THIS is how we play... 8-) "

You are SO right, Bec----early, EARLY on, while most of us( :oops: ) were too busy bawling to even THINK, quite a few seriously aware, uncredited people began to UNRAVEL this Hoaxed Death charade.  8-)  8-)  8-) I remember you and others putting millions of minds at ease, to where we stopped the waterworks and began to see the hints MJ's own team began to instantly release.

The fans were so busy crying they forgot what a twisted joker MJ is. Only HE would joke about death. (To his credit, though, as a very compassionate man, I think he really , actually thought NO one would SERIOUSLY fall apart over his death at this late date. He'd been off the radar, really, for 4 years. Things were quiet. He thought we forgot him, pretty much.

I REALLY believe he expected a tear or two from long time fans----NOT mass hysteria and choked up speechlessness from the World, media people, and his known enemies...I know he was like  :shock: "Oh, NO! It's hurting!"  :? In FACT, I believe the guy even PAID his own mourners, in case there weren't any REAL ones---to become very BIGTIME unglued on the world news, and then---imagine this: MJ watching CNN and, horrified, realizing, "Hey! THOSE aren't my actors!!! :o  :o  :? .

I don't have to be a fly on the wall at his place to see and seriously ENJOY MJ's  :o  :shock: face when he REALIZES this  :arrow:  :arrow:  :arrow: :!: , that, un-MONKEYED with, the ARG he spent over twenty years and at least a couple million dollars on, COULD ACTUALLY BE ALL OVER , IN THE FIRST ROUND-----before he and his team even get to pull all the rabbits out of his hat :!:  :!:  :lol:  :lol:

That would have been horrible, you know. A great and sorry loss, without any of us even realizing how great and sorry...

I have had more fun, and interacted with more interesting people than ever, these Hoax days, than in my entire life. It all could have been over  :o before I even began to search the internet, in September 2009, if the Grand Puppet Master hadn't thrown all the "Heads of the Class" Gamesters a curve or three :!: .

THANK YOU GRAND POO BAH!! :lol:

Not telling anyone how to feel, but I would be TICKLED, if I was found to be a worthy opponent in this game, KEEPING THE HOAX TEAM ON THEIR TOES

and giving  ;) MICHAEL JACKSON A RUN FOR HIS MONEY :!:  :lol:  :D .

He's NEVER going to admit DURING the game, that we are hitting the mark. (He's faking his death--wink wink, remember?) He wants us to figure it OUT that we know that we know the truth.

All physical games have rules, to keep things fair for everybody. Games of matching WITs...uh...I don't even know! Is cleverly changing focus, throwing red herrings, plotted redirections, LEGAL in this kind of game? I guess...

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

The more cleverly done, the better the game! :D

ESPECIALLY, as MJ has shifted his "all Love" focus to more TRUTH in Love. As he's using this game to help us recognize the true from the false, purposely, there IS necessarily going to be lots of mis-truth and guessing. (I didn't say "untruth" ---this is bluffing, as in poker ;)  ;)  ;) )

Only a Genius who loved the whole world would pull an internet game as a genuine lesson in how to THINK and recognize Truth for Freedom. It really IS "All For Love", just as he said.  :D  

As much as I want MJ to show himself, I will be sad when the lesson is over. :oops: School(including college) hasn't been this fun since Junior high!!

Not as an afterthought, but, it's all I have, so I'll say it now, in case it's all I get. :oops:  :P
I am still thinking on today's redirect (picture). I do see a clear artist's rendering of the face of MJ, looking right, on either the wall or the pants of the standing EMT guy, to the left of his arm. But, as TS appears to be focusing in on something more to the "south east"...I'll go back and look some more.

"Fan hug"? Bec, in case I don't get one, may I have yours, then? :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 26, 2011, 04:31:41 PM
I asked my doctor friend,if we take a picture of an ambulance tinted window, if we can see something inside. He took a picture with his blackberry and he told me you couldn't see anything inside the ambulance. Our ambulances are the same as the LA tinted windows the only difference is the color. Ours are yellow.. So this picture is photoshopped like you have stated. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 26, 2011, 04:40:22 PM
It simply can't be the wall, nor can the car be visible in the reflection. As you can see on the picture below, the guy took the picture when the ambulance was still backing out. You can see a small part of the car, that is parked next to the wall, on the left side. There is NO WAY the car can be seen, nor the wall, NO WAY.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/4_proof_pic.jpg)

I layered the 4 pics in photoshop and I could match the middle top part (which doesn't seem to match the real interior of the ambulance when I look at the video) and as you can see, the angle is exactly the same on all 4 pictures. That would mean that even if it were a few frames, everything in the ambulance that is static, should match as well. The bag in the front is not moving by itself, yet we see it move in the pictures, like the car.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/Ambulance01.jpg)

Not possible. There are multiple layers in the pictures. The car is one, the bag is one, the leaves are a layer and who knows what else. The picture is photoshopped, but we knew that already.

Question remains what the leaves are. I still see that cartoon clown in it with a pointy hat, but it could be anything. TS, is it really important or are you just keeping us busy?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on February 26, 2011, 04:58:48 PM
Am I seeing yellow cones on that photo Souza?  On the still shoot you have above....yellow?  Why are they yellow?  All the videos I see are red/orange cones.....
there is a thread on forum about a different view:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5409 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5409)
I clearly see red cones....not yellow?  This video talked about in the thread is interesting.....it's dark shadowy video....not the bright sun we mostly see.

Blessings!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bleu eyes on February 26, 2011, 05:15:34 PM
maybe i'm way of  here but i have post it earlier, and i really like your opinion on this.
here it comes:
if i compare the pictures with the video of the ambulance, it's my believe that the picture is not taken at all at the ambulance( maybe somewhere else)?
When a patient is in a ambulance it's with the head towards the chauffeur, so the head goes first into the ambulance.
when the picture was taken in the ambulance, the paramedics seat is on the wrong side.
please compare, and let me know what you think.
I hope i'm making myself clear i'm not a famous writer 8-)  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 26, 2011, 06:07:33 PM
Well, and all who participated that day in all this are the actors, photographers, the alleged paramedicos who were in the ambulance, the bodyguards, now i remember Alberto Alvarez, another actor more doing his role as well as Murray.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on February 26, 2011, 06:19:59 PM
today has been a very bad day for me, ive been crying for the past three hours & i got on here finally to see if we had a new redrect, but my eyes hurt too bad. I've been staring at these pictures, and the leaves, and I honestly don't understand what's going on. We DID figure out the face a while ago, is there more to it or something? :? I don't know :(

P.S. You said "As we near the end", are we REALLY near the end? :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on February 26, 2011, 06:22:43 PM
This is interesting.

This picture is definately photoshopped. There must be a reason that TS is leading us to MJ's face in the picture.
To me is striking that: the ambu-medic who's doing the chest compression only uses one hand and that hand is placed on a wrong "too high" position near the clavicula/collar bone! Correct adult CP must be performed with 2 hands: one hand 1/2 inch above the "V" where the ribs join the breastbone. The other hand (which I don't see :shock: ) should be put on top of the one already in place. According to some media sources Dr. Murray did one handed CPR as well :o As far as I know that is not the correct CPR for adults. May be the ambu-medics did perform the correct CPR procedure, yet the photoshop "techniques" made us believe the opposite :? The message could be that paparazzi/tabloid media can alter a photo to make us believe what they want!

And why did TS give us the link of this person who's showing us the ambulance interior? (I remember the car difference has been discussed in another thread) It seems to me that it isn't the same ambulance. OK, it is a #71, but its size is smaller and the windows are smaller than the "real" ambulance. Notice the differences: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg) at 7.57 and the one on the picture . I attached the picture of the "real" ambulance. Or is it just optical illusion? Makes you wonder which one is the real ambulance...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mumof3 on February 26, 2011, 06:28:41 PM
This is weird when turn the picture upside down the extra face the cartoon like face turns into Michaels face but with army hat and part of uniform has that been mentioned sorry if it has.  Does anybody else see it as it's very clear upside down.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mumof3 on February 26, 2011, 06:39:38 PM
Looking again. Can see the army cap and also a cover over his mouth
Am I seeing things here. Help
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on February 26, 2011, 07:05:15 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

#3
I think is edited and cofusing.

Looks like the pic is taken from the side window.

Also, the "drawer" where the "leaves" have been shopped, is placed opposite (not in front) the side window.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3710/ambub.jpg)



(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

re; Inside ambulance 71 (starting at 9:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg


Quote
Wall area behind the red car (starting at 1:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4
I am not sure if there is a real red car on the first place.
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7979/oddp.jpg)

However, if a red car is being reflected, the car should have been on the side of the van, not the back part if we pressume that the pic has been taken from the side window.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 26, 2011, 07:29:07 PM
In the next link there is also a discussion of the picture of the ambulance


viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8634 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8634)

Quote
LadyMedic wrote:

msteetee34 wrote:
Beside the eyes look at the difference between the equipment being used in the photo with MJ and the other photo posted with the anonymous person. The equipment in the MJ photo look way old and outdated compared to the ambulances that are used now days. That's another reason to believe the photo is old.
The MJ photo is NOT outdated. 100% is not. All ambulances are different inside. All of the equipment in that picture is very much current. I don't understand what people see as being old. Lifepak 12s are very new, the equipment they're using in general is all current (the ET tube, tube holder, veniguard, ETCO2, BVM, patches on the medics). Some of it my company uses now.


Quote
LadyMedic wrote:
And I have to say I do like what you're saying about the picture and the point I've been trying to make all along. Sure, this whole thing could be a hoax. But that does not mean that there is going to be error in everything they did. The ambulance photo, from the standpoint of a paramedic, is legit. As is the 911 call procedure. Does that mean it's MJ in the ambulance? No. But what they have done to the person/dummy/etc. is totally normal. And the equipment they're using is current.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mjj4ever777 on February 26, 2011, 07:38:47 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "Elsa"
I'm sure I saw a video of the ambulance backing out that showed the red car wasn't in the right position to be reflected in Ben's photo.


OK, so back to the ambulance.  :mrgreen:
You are right - compared to the movies we were presented, we may doubt where and how the photos were composed.

We should consider a little bit more material.

Remember the EXIF data of one of the pictures showed 12:08 as creation hour.
That's 18 minutes before the ambulance allegedly arrived.

This is the video of the "proof picture" which is only proving the fact that several takes were executed but not the fact that Christopher Weiss shot that sequence of photos: he's in bright sunlight without any tree shadows as seen on the famous pictures:

[youtube:z9horq1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:z9horq1w]

Evenstad is not saying the truth stating in the video he could see Michael's face through the window. He was not there in front of the side window - at least not in the material we saw. He was not even the one shooting the "proof" photo, since he was not down the street. He was also not at the window in the "proof" photo and also not in the Hollywood TV video. Ben was sitting in his car, the red Toyota Prius, while the ambulance backed out. You see this for a second (1:36) in the Hollywood TV video when the video filmer is running back to his car.
The "proof" photo is showing the yellow shirt guy taking the photo in the middle of the road (and not the red shirt guy from the video who stood in front of the yellow shirt guy there). The angle of the camera of the yellow shirt guy is even wrong. Impossible to shoot the picture like this. Only the red shirt guy could have shot it, but in the Hollywood TV movie, he's running away too fast and DOESN'T EVEN LOOK into the window but turns his head to the left.
This is the exact way how to NOT shoot a good sequence of pics.

It's getting better: in an interview, Weiss stated this:
Quote
Yeah, and did you notice his so called offhand comment…
“We couldn't see inside the ambulance,” Weiss continues “For all I knew when I was taking the pictures, Michael could have been sitting up on a gurney with oxygen on It's like he knew what was going on inside it…..
(credit to Morgana on MJHD.com, July 27, 2009)

In another video about the ambulance picture, Ben is telling more fairy tales.
Watch the seconds as of 1:14 - the video keeps hanging in on that blurry something and is showing the red car again (and the wall behind it - see the leaves even would have had to move 7 feet forwards to come close to the car front and become part of a mirroring thingie - photoshop... :mrgreen:)

[youtube:z9horq1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:z9horq1w]

Why would a cristal clear video have to be hanging in on a blurry somethingie for seconds?


Now thanks to international interest, someone saved the TMZ video version for us:

http://www.wat.tv/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-1lnmx_2exyf_.html

The tourist bus is parking in parallel to the fire truck, not close to the pylones as in the Hollywood TV movie. Please watch for the shadows, they are much longer now than in the Hollywood TV movie, watch the crack in the middle of the road and compare both films.
In the Hollywood TV movie, there's no shadow at all in sight in the middle of the road, the garbage bins and the folks at the back door are in sunshine.
In the TMZ movie, the ambulance backs out into the shadow of the trees at the right side of the street.

Coming back to the role of the red car in the "reflection" of the tinted side window.
The red Toyota Prius (Ben Evenstad's car that he reportedly had lent for joyrides to Michael) was parked right in front of the gate when the ambulance backed out, when the water ran through the house some days later (see thread on TIAI Feb 14 redirect) and when the mourning fans gathered (see video TS_comments cited - at the last two occasions: parked at Monovale).
Seems that its owner still was around that address all the time - despite the fact that the owner allegedly had passed away and was - to be honest - not a hot selling target anymore.
I mean, NPG had shot "THE" photo and Ben still was not satisfied? (Or suspicious or what?)

It still gets weirder:
This is a tweet from e-online on June 26, 2009:
Michael Jackson Death-Site Scene: Weird http://tinyurl.com/p8ul4u (http://tinyurl.com/p8ul4u)
5:46 PM Jun 26th, 2009 via twitterfeed
http://twitter.com/eonline/status/2352632965

The link takes you to this site giving an impression of the situation on the street on June 26, 2009:
http://de.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b131487_michael_jackson_death-site_scene_weird.html
Interesting article btw.

What do we see on that photo?
The lined-up garbage bins - and a red Toyota Prius parked in a cop protected area. Huh?

What was it looking like on June 25, 2009 in the afternoon according to life.com:
http://www.life.com/image/88688298
No red Toyota Prius that day. Hidden behind the truck?

I think the car and its driver are much more interesting than the ambulance photo as such.
How come a red Toyota Prius was present in a closed area with cops presence the day after the alleged passing of Michael Jackson?

Btw, behind the Prius a dark SUV was parked (the type Michael used) and the license plate is also visible in the Hollywood TV movie.
Was the master watching and directing the takes from the outside?
Just asking.


Great post Grace!!! You brought up some great points in this post! Thank you for all your hard work...There's nothing like seeing the "master Michael" at work. ...I found your post very interesting.
Thanks TS for alerting us to this subject...let the "Adventure" continue!
Love to you all! :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: melody on February 26, 2011, 08:38:01 PM
I didn't see the face until tonight, lol. My eyes could only make out the leaves earlier. Out of curiosity I copied the pic, zoomed it up to 300% and lo' and behold there are more lines. Granted, they're really faint so I created a new layer and started tracing the shadows on a very low opacity  (so my lines wouldn't obstruct my view). When I zoomed back out and raised the opacity all the way up (to actually see what I had drawn), I surprisingly got something very close to Mjonmind's screencap, but flipped:

Quote from: "MJonmind"
This is from 1:54, and the leaves on the wall kinda look like the design.

(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7454/tracingshadows.png)

This could still be photo manipulation though. Assuming that I traced it correctly and considering that the shadows in the ambulance pic do not match up completely with the screencap of the tree, it's possible the shadows were always there but manipulated to look more like a face. That, or I traced it incorrectly and my post is meaningless :P
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on February 26, 2011, 09:14:52 PM
Photoshopped in, unless MJ himself simply sat up  ;) and doodled it out on the storage box built into the Ambulance wall... It looks like a leaf pattern, but I've seen this same type of drawing of MJ before. I think it is his own handiwork, sort of a Warhol-esque knock-off, this time.

Maybe it was some kind of waxy drawing medium, more fluid than Crayola's, easily erased, which the Eternal Prankster quickly sketched, to spook the stuffing out of his team! I can see him doing this. :lol:  Just to shake THEM up. Imagine: if anyone outside the Hoax plan SAW that sketch live!! The gig would be up. Dead men don't sketch. Hoax staff would ALL be afraid heads would roll at MJ's command! But maybe not too many would know MJ had drawn it...

More likely,  in that panic it caused, it would have been hurriedly explained away  8-) as some supernatural event(like the face of Jesus supposedly appearing on St.Veronica's veil, as a souvenier for wiping his brow on His death walk, to Golgotha....)

The reason(s) the image isn't on the empty ambulance photos or video, is ,

A] that is not the same ambulance; or

B] he or someone else, quickly (!!  :lol: )wiped MJ's artwork off, before he left the vehicle, to be whisked away to the Airport.

It's not that far fetched.  :roll: Heck, we KNOW he didn't just lay there and play dead---we saw "him" sit up in the helicopter! :lol: :P  

Anyway, that's my latest picture theory. What and why....  :)  

Incidentally, the other "block of interest"  in the ambulance photo, appears to me to be an image of MJ in his Wiz makeup, next to a laughing Elvis and some third image I can't tell...but, like it was already stated by TS, one can see faces anywhere.

In fact, at 400% magnification, also, I see a clear young MJ in some kind of a less crisp "brother's collage" on the GROUND, near the wall, @141, in the red car link TS provided, so, go figure!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 26, 2011, 09:35:00 PM
@Its her: thank you for your post. I feel like you straightened my head out with a good talking to and then wrapped your arms around me and gave me a big ol hug. You are right, of course, with every single word and I know this is supposed to be fun and I wouldn't trade one minute of the past 20 months for all the money in the world. I'm sorry. I lost perspective. Of course we can't "win" the game at our own pace. That makes no sense, it's a global, public hoax not my private Xbox game.

*hangs head and sighs*

I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.

Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.

Pps: I love blue.

Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on February 26, 2011, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: "bec"
@Its her: thank you for your post. I feel like you straightened my head out with a good talking to and then wrapped your arms around me and gave me a big ol hug. You are right, of course, with every single word and I know this is supposed to be fun and I wouldn't trade one minute of the past 20 months for all the money in the world. I'm sorry. I lost perspective. Of course we can't "win" the game at our own pace. That makes no sense, it's a global, public hoax not my private Xbox game.

*hangs head and sighs*

I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.

Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.

Pps: I love blue.

Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.

Bec you can also lose playing games on Xbox.  :lol:
I understand you the way you feel, as soon as we find something concrete we make a step forward and than all of a sudden we hear something of the trial or about Katherine and we go a step backwards, it is frustrating. At least we have eachother here, we are all going through the same thing. We want Michael to come back on his own terms, but as long as we can have a clue that he is alive and fine.  We know that he is alive, but we would like to have concrete proof.. Bec,just tell yourself you are not alone. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 26, 2011, 09:54:24 PM
Hey Souza! Congrats. You're first one in 20 months to show me PROOF that the ambulance pic could have been altered or manipulated. Good job!

I still say its a pic of a dummy though. And how in the hell did they sell it legally?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 26, 2011, 10:10:53 PM
[youtube:34t9pc4k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:34t9pc4k]

This is off topic maybe? But in this video (that Grace provided) when Ben is explaining that the ambulance was in the driveway for over 40 minutes, the gates kept opening and closing, etc.

You can see in the video when the gates are closed (there is a small gap in the gates) I can see Alberto hold his hand up. Ben says during that moment is when they're taking Michael out on the strecher and Ben says you can see it just briefly.

Ben says that the body guards and a FAN are trying to block the cameras view. I didn't see the strecher Ben was talking about but I did see someone stand up from a crouching position and start to walk towards the ambulance. It is very quick but it is a man and I think it was Michael. Take a look yourselves.

The mark is 44-53 secs.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on February 26, 2011, 10:29:00 PM
I have been re-reading some of the old threads.....mostly ambulance related right now.  I think this old thread is very interesting.  It seems to touch on much of what's being said, plus a few odds and ends:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11361 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11361)
Love and Blessings!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on February 26, 2011, 10:52:08 PM
Yes that does look like Michael, body language and all. Wow. Ben says " when they were bringing Michael out....(pauses) on the stretcher. This is BIG!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on February 26, 2011, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: "bec"
@Its her: thank you for your post. I feel like you straightened my head out with a good talking to and then wrapped your arms around me and gave me a big ol hug. You are right, of course, with every single word and I know this is supposed to be fun and I wouldn't trade one minute of the past 20 months for all the money in the world. I'm sorry. I lost perspective. Of course we can't "win" the game at our own pace. That makes no sense, it's a global, public hoax not my private Xbox game.

*hangs head and sighs*

I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.

Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.

Pps: I love blue.

Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.

Aawww, Bec, that was so SWEET of you!

I knew it was just exhaustion. (or maybe you were in need of a Snickers candy bar with protein, "Diva" ;) Have you seen that commercial ad? :lol: )

Not a one of us here has gone 20 months without an unexplainable crying jag, or thrown inanimate objects (mostly soft things, like cat toys and Cheetos) across the room out of exasperation. Your post was cathartic.  :mrgreen: Nothin' like a good safe (on paper) RANT, once in a while to normalize all the rest who are holding back secret steam and wondering, "What's wrong with me? How'd I let this get such a hold on me???"

Now, now, no head hanging--that was cute---there's been NO harm done. :arrow:

We ALL know you really didn't want to choke our Man. :lol: (However the gals who started that spanking thread are viscious! I believed them! :shock: )

When we do well at things, we naturally expect encouragement, acknowledgement, at least. It can be maddening to not know if you are even on the right track, or should you back track or keep going or stand still...  :? CRAP :!:  

We have been trained by TPTB to look to them trustingly for Truth. We need not look to anyone, really, if we have studied to our satisfaction. (and I pray a lot too 8-) )

This is a "huh??! :o where's my dog-treat?" moment for lots of us, when there is nothing--not even a nod from the Teacher. But, I bought my OWN treats/Snickers :!:  :P  :P  :P ) I and I explained it for myself, that, in THIS important case---could be a matter of Life or Death for some people---MJ WANTs us to learn to think for ourselves and KNOW for ourselves, without Teacher say so, that we got it right; nailed the Truth and are confident in it. 8-)  

It's sort of like that head shaving, :shock:  psychological isolation "treatment", "V" gave Evey (V For Vendetta). NOT fun. And strangely, Lonely. With a capital "L".("This ain't no dang game, grrr"--temptation to self-doubt,  :? when we know better 8-) ) One MUST get used to shrugging off hurt from imaginations or real loneliness, if one attempts to think differently than the average sheep. Make friends because you will feel married to it. :|

I just realized! We are learning/experiencing!!! a priceless lesson in personal FREEDOM, here. O.M.G. :!:  :!: (I'm going to watch "V" again! :o ) Thank you for YOUR posts, Bec. You give me great ideas! :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: nefertari on February 26, 2011, 11:06:41 PM
Perhaps TS is saying there is a 7 here.

 There are 7 layers in the image. Slightly moving the layers we have four different pictures.

 1. red car
 2. leaves turned over
 3. case
 4. Operator 1
 5. MJ's body
 6. Operator 2
 7. wall of the ambulance
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on February 26, 2011, 11:11:29 PM
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important.  Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax.  I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.

Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc.  So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.

For those who are interested, enjoy the ride.  For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth.  And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.

To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here.  There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out.  You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}.  As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died.  I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another.  I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason.  All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only.  The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TouchedByAnAngel on February 26, 2011, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"

Maybe there could also be a connection with the redirect was at this time last year? Just thinking lol

Anyone remember what the redirect was?

I went to Lilwendy's http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/www-thisisalsoit-com-to-date/ and found this link for Feb. 26, 2010

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/michael-jackson-dies-age-50-cardiac-arrest-2-26-pm-pdt

There is the famous Hollywood TV video of the ambulance backing out of the driveway. It is embedded in the story and here is the same one on YouTube, so you can see it in a larger format.

[youtube:5zd6mv2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:5zd6mv2g]

Anyway, nothing about this ambulance pic makes any sense. In the video you can see it looks like a photographer might have tried to take a pic from the back windows, but it shows a security guard putting his hands on those windows. Then maybe a photographer tried to take a pic from the right passenger side window, but even if he had it would be the wrong direction for the pic we were shown.

TS it is good to hear from you again, but I'm stumped with this thread topic. I do see a face that looks like Michael. In your blow up of the pic it does resemble foliage of some sort, but I just can't see how it could be a reflection from anything outside or inside the ambulance. The pic seems too clear for being taken through a smoked glass window taken in a split second. So I think the pic is fake and has been cleverly manipulated, for whatever reasons.

Something strange I ran across just moments ago from a friend on Twitter is the link below.

http://www.urigeller.com/articles/weekl ... 031107.htm (http://www.urigeller.com/articles/weekly-news/2007/031107.htm)

It is an article by Uri Geller from 2007. In this article he mentions a man named Larry Geller, (Elvis' hairdresser and "spiritual" friend) who wrote a book called “Leaves of Elvis’ Garden”. This book supposedly tells of Elvis' interest in spiritual matters. So the story mentions Elvis and also mentions Criss Angel too. This story caught my attention because of the name of the book and also because Elvis at one time lived right down the street from where MJ was living. Probably nothing, but you never know. I haven't researched this any further. Cheetoman2004 you mentioned the fact that the date/time of this thread equaled 8 which also reminded me of the importance of the number 8 to Elvis.

Love & Light

Touched By An Angel
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 26, 2011, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important.  Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax.  I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.

Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc.  So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.

For those who are interested, enjoy the ride.  For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth.  And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.

To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here.  There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out.  You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}.  As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died.  I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another.  I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason.  All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only.  The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.

How amazing to be able to quote you. :D I was waiting for your post. Thank you TS. I can not wait to read your upcoming posts. I feel myself like a curious student who wants to learn more and more. Thank you so much for guiding us. We couldn't find this much about the hoax without your help. I learned a lot from you and still learning. I appreciate it a lot. I've been on this rollercoaster for 18 months and I'm never tired of it at all. I'm enjoying the ride. This has been the best, and the most thrilling journey of my life. And it can be done by only one genius. Mr Michael Joe Jackson. I salute you the great Master of Mystery and Magic. Thank You and God Bless.

And about the ambulance picture; as I KNOW that Michael is alive, I never believed the picture was real. But still  I would love to hear the details about it and also about the hows of the hoax. Can not wait for your upcoming posts TS. God bless you.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 27, 2011, 01:27:53 AM
So by starting with the ambulance photo your trying to point us in the direction of how this hoax was pulled off and of those involved. But how is the ambo photo going to do that? Because if the photo is fake and Ben is the one that took it then wouldn't that mean Ben is in the know or at least knows MJ faked his death. So wouldn't the ambo photo only confirm if Ben is apart of the hoax not anyone else. Also how does the photo show how the hoax was done. I have read the various theories on here and dont get how it would show how this hoax was pulled off but I would like to know.

 I'm sorry if this post makes no sense or if if you have already said it but I'm just not getting it, could you please explain.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Adi on February 27, 2011, 01:30:36 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important.  Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax.  I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.

Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc.  So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.

For those who are interested, enjoy the ride.  For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth.  And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.

To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here.  There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out.  You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}.  As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died.  I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another.  I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason.  All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only.  The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.

I've been hanging out to learn much more about the hows of the hoax. I think it will be fascinating to know more about how exactly  Michael has done this. I'll be hanging on for this ride....and look forward to reading more of your comments TS.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: navibl on February 27, 2011, 01:47:48 AM
Well here goes with MHO.  Ben E said "that day and the other Da....So I tend to believe the pic of Michael was taken as a pose shot in a totally different ambulance from the one shown at the fire Dept. and the next day a pic taken of the red car and then given an overlay, to make it look like a reflection.  Because the red car takes on different appearances with the wheel hubs and what looks like a black med bag with the yellow label on it, the black bag looks transparent. So two different ambulances, two different days and two separate pics.  Now keep in mind there is a very slight chance I am wrong, because I was once years ago. :o  just had to throw that in.. :lol:

Just a thought....LOVE you ALL and LOVE to you TS.
Victoria
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 27, 2011, 01:59:41 AM
Hey TS! I asked my mom to cook a special dinner for you when this is all over. I hope you like Puerto-rican food!!  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mumof3 on February 27, 2011, 03:46:27 AM
Did any one turn the extra face upside down  what did you see I told you what I saw I would be interested to hear what you all might have seen
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on February 27, 2011, 03:56:47 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Because if the photo is fake and Ben is the one that took it then wouldn't that mean Ben is in the know or at least knows MJ faked his death.

How would we explain he's authorized to have his car inside of a police controlled area when other reporters / paparazzi have to stay outside.
This can only mean 1) Ben had a special authorization order into the area (by whom?) or 2) the red car stayed parked there, empty / over night and was not towed away or 3) the police may be corrupt or 4) the police were actors.

How would we explain him hanging around the house for days and days after he managed to shoot "THE" photo of the year?
This can have e.g. the reason that 1) he's in the know and wanted to watch / document the reactions / make sure no nonsense is happening afterwards / be the eyes on the site for someone who could not be there anymore or 2) that he got suspicious and wanted to check out what's going on.

The key players might have given the troyan horses in order to get the avalanche rolling.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 05:32:27 AM

@TS It's good to see you commenting and I know you already covered the most important parts of the hoax but I was curious as to where you will go with this. I think we have a few months left and it is good to revisit old stuff and most definitely when you will be here to explain things. I think many of us have a head full of theories (I know I have had many, and even bizarre ones at times I didn't even want to post :lol: ) so if this is how we can 'kill time' then I vote yes. I for one am interested in the hows, and if that means we have to discuss the ambulance picture again, then okay with me. I am curious about what we did get right and where we were so far off that it will make us ROFL when we hear how it really was done.I have the feeling that, although we have been looking at all this for 20 months, we will still have a lot of surprises regarding things we have been looking at for that long.

About the photoshop: I don't think that MJ/the dummy was actually shopped in there. I don't believe the face matches the picture that Oxman pointed out. I think that part is a real picture on all 4 of them, with EMT's and tubes and all. 4 different frames, no need to shop MJ in it. I think they have been used as a background, and that the car and other reflections are layered over them. That's done in a few seconds. I have no idea why there are 4 of them though, that escapes me so I'm looking forward to your next post. As for the leave pattern; maybe it's just that simple... MJ face and leaves: MJ leaves? I dunno, I'm stuck.

Off topic but I saw you commented at 9:11 pm. Your original post was on 6:25 pm and you already said that the times and dates you post are planned. Your title once had TIME DOTS in caps, so I am really curious about that. Is it something we can figure out, or is it something you will use later on to show you're legit to those that still have doubts or even dismissed you?

@bec Maybe they sold it as a photoshop. Tabloids will do anything to sell their trash, so why wouldn't they buy a good photoshop when someone offers them? I can't imagine ET being in on it with that b!t$# Diane Demon on board.

I think the only media outlet that knows what's going on is TMZ, and probably just Harvey and maybe Mike. I am curious though how TMZ got involved. Does Mike own it, did TMZ sign a big contract with Mike or do Harvey and Mike know each other well?

@MJ Forgive bec's rant. She rants because she cares and loves you to death and I know she would LOVE a fan-hug :lol:
Funny how we talk to you this way while officially we can't even be sure you really read this, but common sense tells me you do and most definitely the TIAI discussions. I hope you will address this all one day, and tell us how you felt reading some of the stuff on here. I bet you laughed your ass off many times, but I can also imagine you shook your head in disbelief many times or even felt insulted. Just know that none of us (well most of us) never meant to but you didn't make it easy for us. For me it has been the trip of a lifetime and even though it's not over yet, I have learned so much more than I ever learned in all those years of school and work. You are a great teacher and an interesting person to study. I might not be a 'true fan' but you earned a special place in my heart and I will remember this for the rest of my life. But enough with the feathers in your ass, they might start to hurt. If they already do, I'm sorry, but this might help: http://www.accesshealth.com.au/sample/1 ... __2055.jpg (http://www.accesshealth.com.au/sample/127/128/p_donut_cushion__2055.jpg)
I think we all would like to know how YOU experienced this virtual trip with us because you might be smart as hell but I bet this is a learning experience for you as well because even though you can contol a lot in this hoax, you can't control us and I am sure you never intended to. Just throwing that out there hoping you will consider this. Take care, be safe and be back.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 27, 2011, 08:54:03 AM
Quote
wishingstar wrote:

I have been re-reading some of the old threads.....mostly ambulance related right now. I think this old thread is very interesting. It seems to touch on much of what's being said, plus a few odds and ends:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11361
Love and Blessings!

This video is very interesting, i see clearly the image of someone with his face covered, as he make Michael is very quick but you can see, but confucion, was Mike in the ambulance? :roll:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on February 27, 2011, 08:59:43 AM
As to "how" details:

This gives the whys and a howto for car glass tinting:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Window-Film-for-Cars-Car-Tint

This gives the real look of ambulance 71 in 2010:
http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/

This gives some public possibilities to rent a firetruck:
http://www.firetrucks4hire.com/other_sites.html

This gives some insight into the Sheriff's chopper capacities (it's usually a military sea war vehicle and the chopper "used" in the movies is an old one, having been registered in Oct 2001):
N950DG
http://vimeo.com/7003981
Same type, not exact the same vehicle but N950SB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7u77Kfway0
Pilot's door on the "back" side of the filming, plenty of seats, two spaces for stretched out persons... (the gurney "basket" underneath those 4 spare seats is the only one coming into sight from the door). Loopholes and places to hide in full sight everywhere.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: diggyon on February 27, 2011, 09:09:16 AM
@Souza,
i agree with you 100%. I'm also not a fan of MJ and never was. But i found this hoax very informative and decided to continue  with all of you. The more I learn and the more I discover the more I respect Micheal. I think he owes our respect for what he did so far. I'm not fed up with all these riddles, in fact sometimes I think, when all this is over and when Michael comes back I guess I'm gonna miss the times when we discovered new stuff and discussed and argued with each other and waited for more clues. I'm enjoying this forum more than anything. I guess we all do. And I'm sure Micheal reads what we write and I also have the feeling that he uses some different usernames and styles and gets involved in our conversations! Of course i cannot emphasize this but it's just my feeling. I can't imagine him just read what we write and discuss without a single interference! May be this is all off topic but I just wanted to share it with you and with Michael as well. And as far as the photos are concerned, I think that the photos are photoshopped and I'm convinced with the layers' theory as I'm using Photoshop in my work.
Well TS..... we're all waiting for what will be revealed tomorrow......
And for you guys..... enjoy the ride...... the end is near.........
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mopey3655 on February 27, 2011, 09:15:30 AM
Amen, Amen and Amen.  I totally agree and I can attest to that it has been an experience out of this world for me.  Living in the Bahamas and not having access to a lot of info about the hoax has been a little frustrating for me but thanks to Souza and the rest of the crew I have able to be a part of this family Michael's family and whatever happens I want to say to all of you that I am thankful and appreciative of everything and I am very proud of all of you to see the outpour of support for Michael and Michael if you are here sometimes and reading You are the best and don't let anything tell you different you are one of a kind believe me when I say that and the love that you have all around the world is phenomenal.  We Love you.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 27, 2011, 09:41:15 AM
Quote
Grace wrote:

As to "how" details:

This gives the whys and a howto for car glass tinting:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Window-Film-for-Cars-Car-Tint (http://hubpages.com/hub/Window-Film-for-Cars-Car-Tint)

This gives the real look of ambulance 71 in 2010:
http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)

This gives some public possibilities to rent a firetruck:
http://www.firetrucks4hire.com/other_sites.html (http://www.firetrucks4hire.com/other_sites.html)

This gives some insight into the Sheriff's chopper capacities (it's usually a military sea war vehicle and the chopper "used" in the movies is an old one, having been registered in Oct 2001):
N950DG
http://vimeo.com/7003981 (http://vimeo.com/7003981)
Same type, not exact the same vehicle but N950SB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7u77Kfway0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7u77Kfway0)
Pilot's door on the "back" side of the filming, plenty of seats, two spaces for stretched out persons... (the gurney "basket" underneath those 4 spare seats is the only one coming into sight from the door). Loopholes and places to hide in full sight everywhere.

I do not know you could rent a fire truck :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mumof3 on February 27, 2011, 09:45:49 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Okay, so I decided to start the redirect thread this time.   ;)

As we near the end: let’s go back to the beginning, and examine once more the ambulance photo.  Not so much revisiting what has already been discussed numerous times, but rather taking a new look at something that has been there all along—and yet has been mostly overlooked.  Some people have thought it was a face hidden in the picture {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791;
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images}.   However, it’s easy to see faces in random shapes such as the clouds, or mountains, etc.







 It's the top picture turn it upside down

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)


This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

To help you figure out the answer: I have included below four different ambulance photos, a video of the wall area behind the red car, and a video of the inside of ambulance 71 (11803, CA 1261551).


(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Wall area behind the red car (starting at 1:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4

Inside ambulance 71 (starting at 9:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg


See what you can figure out.  I will probably join in the discussion on this thread, but I will not redirect to any new comments in this thread.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ignisaeternus on February 27, 2011, 10:11:57 AM
Oh wow- good morning TS and hoaxers! I guess I should have stayed home last night- seems I missed a lot. Have not read the whole thread as I have to exercise my horse before it rains.
The first thing I thought of when I read "leaves" was Palm Sunday. Jesus' triumphant entry into Jerusalem. Which ties into the Easter theme and Kenny's comment re spring on twitter.  All this might mean nothing- but I thought I'd throw it into the mix.

The work you guys did re inversion of leaves and what was edited in later ( reflexion etc) was brilliant!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: applehead250609 on February 27, 2011, 01:23:46 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
today has been a very bad day for me, ive been crying for the past three hours & i got on here finally to see if we had a new redrect, but my eyes hurt too bad. I've been staring at these pictures, and the leaves, and I honestly don't understand what's going on. We DID figure out the face a while ago, is there more to it or something? :? I don't know :(

P.S. You said "As we near the end", are we REALLY near the end? :?

Hello MJFAN7!!!!

Please hold on,don't be upset,and try to be strong.I know this hoax is very annoing sometimes but we are on this forum because we want this and because we want to find out the truth.Don't forget that we all are here in the name of LOVE and I care for you.Much LOVE for you from Romania!!!!!  :D

LOVE
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on February 27, 2011, 01:32:15 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Oh wow- good morning TS and hoaxers! I guess I should have stayed home last night- seems I missed a lot. Have not read the whole thread as I have to exercise my horse before it rains.
The first thing I thought of when I read "leaves" was Palm Sunday. Jesus' triumphant entry into Jerusalem. Which ties into the Easter theme and Kenny's comment re spring on twitter.  All this might mean nothing- but I thought I'd throw it into the mix.

The work you guys did re inversion of leaves and what was edited in later ( reflexion etc) was brilliant!!!


Slightly off topic (sorry folks !! love you all) Hi fellow horse lover  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 27, 2011, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important.  Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax.  I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.

Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc.  So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.

For those who are interested, enjoy the ride.   All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only.  The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.
Oh it's Game on! I am very much interested in knowing how this was pulled off. The ambulance pic is a good starting point because that is what should be the best proof to people (outside of the hoax world) something doesn't add up. If they really took the time they would see that the pic is not a recent (age appropriate) MJ.

Exactly, only 1 good original photo and then layers added after. I watched my friend do this before but I am not technically able to do it myself. I am on the edge of my seat waiting patiently.  ;) Looking forward to reading your challenges to these common theories. I'm in this till the end. Ride of a lifetime for sure.

Pushing the limits is the name of the game.  8-)

[youtube:3untxkey]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S29GrVANbHM[/youtube:3untxkey]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: croMJfan on February 27, 2011, 02:19:41 PM
I'm new with this stuff with the hoax and all. I don't have any experience but from what I've seen from another people and their clues and thoughts. I wanted to share this with you.Has anybody seen something wierd about this photo? It's an interview with Ben, the photographer. It sais RIP KING backwords behind his back on a piece of paper. What does that suppose to mean?  

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/9_ben_evenstad_interview.jpg)

I think of it this way. RIP = Rest In Peace....but PIR ??? PIR = Peace In Rest....maybe it's related to the hoax I don't know...like it's telling us Michael needs PEACE in his REST ( read: faking his death ) . Do you agree? Tell me what you think.

L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on February 27, 2011, 02:30:14 PM
I’m going to make one more introductory comment here, before taking a deep dive into the evidences regarding the ambulance photo, and the hows of the hoax.  In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it.  And in fact, others should bring in evidence they have found (and indeed, many are doing this already in this thread, which is good); don’t just wait for me to explain everything.

To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.  And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it.  Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence.  This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are  :lol: ).  But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.

Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it).  And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence.  Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth.  But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.

When the trial starts, I will not be doing very many redirects or comments.  There will be plenty for you to investigate—especially since it will be televised; and I don’t want to take your time and attention from that.  However, we have about a month left; let’s see how far we can get connecting the dots on the hows of the hoax (coming up with a good, solid, coherent theory).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: croMJfan on February 27, 2011, 02:30:58 PM
sorry I posted two same comments :S I'm new with this :/
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on February 27, 2011, 02:34:58 PM
TS, sometimes I think you're underestimating us. :? We HAVE actually figured out a LOT of this hoax with our own minds, we look to you mostly to give us hints, and to confirm whether or not we're correct about our, um, 'assumptions'. Yes you've helped us out a lot!! And I thank you for that, ;) But we're not 'waiting for you to explain everything' all the time. We try to figure it out, and most of the time I think we do. But we also wonder if we're correct, or WAY off, which is why we await your explanation. I hope you understand, i love you very much. :)

Quote from: "applehead250609"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
today has been a very bad day for me, ive been crying for the past three hours & i got on here finally to see if we had a new redrect, but my eyes hurt too bad. I've been staring at these pictures, and the leaves, and I honestly don't understand what's going on. We DID figure out the face a while ago, is there more to it or something? :? I don't know :(

P.S. You said "As we near the end", are we REALLY near the end? :?

Hello MJFAN7!!!!

Please hold on,don't be upset,and try to be strong.I know this hoax is very annoing sometimes but we are on this forum because we want this and because we want to find out the truth.Don't forget that we all are here in the name of LOVE and I care for you.Much LOVE for you from Romania!!!!!  :D

LOVE

Dear, thank you so much for this message! :) But don't worry, my being upset has nothing to do with the hoax. I will be here for as long as it takes, ;) Thank you. LOVE :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 27, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: "croMJfan"
I'm new with this stuff with the hoax and all. I don't have any experience but from what I've seen from another people and their clues and thoughts. I wanted to share this with you.Has anybody seen something wierd about this photo? It's an interview with Ben, the photographer. It sais RIP KING backwords behind his back on a piece of paper. What does that suppose to mean?  

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/9_ben_evenstad_interview.jpg)

I think of it this way. RIP = Rest In Peace....but PIR ??? PIR = Peace In Rest....maybe it's related to the hoax I don't know...like it's telling us Michael needs PEACE in his REST ( read: faking his death ) . Do you agree? Tell me what you think.

L.O.V.E.

First of all I wanna say Hi...I remember on another thread this was mentioned but I cant remember where...but I have no idea what this means but I think it could be a clue to the hoax. Why its backwards is another thing.

Thanks TS but if we hit a dead end in a theory does tha mean its wrong?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 02:42:04 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.  And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Game time! You're BAD! I like it. :lol:  It is hard to get a good coherent theory, so I think this is a very good idea and I agree that we should be able to get the truth in this way. Like I said, I am stuck on the ambulance picture after what I already posted, so I am curious about what you will say about it. Do you want us to come up with other subjects, or will you pick them? Or am I not patient enough and should I just wait for your next post?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 02:59:06 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
TS, sometimes I think you're underestimating us. :? We HAVE actually figured out a LOT of this hoax with our own minds, we look to you mostly to give us hints, and to confirm whether or not we're correct about our, um, 'assumptions'. Yes you've helped us out a lot!! And I thank you for that, ;) But we're not 'waiting for you to explain everything' all the time. We try to figure it out, and most of the time I think we do. But we also wonder if we're correct, or WAY off, which is why we await your explanation. I hope you understand, i love you very much. :)

I don't think that is what he means. What he means is that he is going to help us make a coherent theory and that, even though we are tired and fed up with some subjects, we shouldn't just wait now til he posts something to explain, but keep sharp and defend our opinions to get to the true theory. He is not saying we have been lazy waiting for him for 2 years, he is talking about this 'game'. I hope you get what I mean.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: dom425 on February 27, 2011, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I’m going to make one more introductory comment here, before taking a deep dive into the evidences regarding the ambulance photo, and the hows of the hoax.  In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it.  And in fact, others should bring in evidence they have found (and indeed, many are doing this already in this thread, which is good); don’t just wait for me to explain everything.

To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.  And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it.  Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence.  This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are  :lol: ).  But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.

Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it).  And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence.  Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth.  But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.

When the trial starts, I will not be doing very many redirects or comments.  There will be plenty for you to investigate—especially since it will be televised; and I don’t want to take your time and attention from that.  However, we have about a month left; let’s see how far we can get connecting the dots on the hows of the hoax (coming up with a good, solid, coherent theory).
When you said we only have month left does that mean the trial will be over in a month or he will return in a month?????
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 27, 2011, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Quote from: "croMJfan"
I'm new with this stuff with the hoax and all. I don't have any experience but from what I've seen from another people and their clues and thoughts. I wanted to share this with you.Has anybody seen something wierd about this photo? It's an interview with Ben, the photographer. It sais RIP KING backwords behind his back on a piece of paper. What does that suppose to mean?  

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/9_ben_evenstad_interview.jpg)

I think of it this way. RIP = Rest In Peace....but PIR ??? PIR = Peace In Rest....maybe it's related to the hoax I don't know...like it's telling us Michael needs PEACE in his REST ( read: faking his death ) . Do you agree? Tell me what you think.

L.O.V.E.
First of all I wanna say Hi...I remember on another thread this was mentioned but I cant remember where...but I have no idea what this means but I think it could be a clue to the hoax. Why its backwards is another thing.

Thanks TS but if we hit a dead end in a theory does tha mean its wrong?
I did see the pic your referring to when I watched the video. The paper is taped from the other side of the window. Most likely it was wrote with a sharpie pen which will show through paper and can be seen from the other side of a window.

Does that make sense?

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AnaMarcia on February 27, 2011, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I’m going to make one more introductory comment here, before taking a deep dive into the evidences regarding the ambulance photo, and the hows of the hoax.  In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it.  And in fact, others should bring in evidence they have found (and indeed, many are doing this already in this thread, which is good); don’t just wait for me to explain everything.

To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.  And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it.  Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence.  This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are  :lol: ).  But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.

Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it).  And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence.  Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth.  But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.

When the trial starts, I will not be doing very many redirects or comments.  There will be plenty for you to investigate—especially since it will be televised; and I don’t want to take your time and attention from that.  However, we have about a month left; let’s see how far we can get connecting the dots on the hows of the hoax (coming up with a good, solid, coherent theory).

It's so hard to create coherent theories when we live on a roller coaster of information. At the same time we can get excited about something, we suddenly feel a bucket of cold water on our hopes.
Some news or events makes us say "wow Michael is more alive than I am!" But there comes other things, such as statements and confirmations of this death by the Jackson family (I'm not criticizing them, but his statements are able to bring me down yes). If it is a hoax, many people are involved and have your paper, they are complying with perfection.
I also know that there are many theories and crazy people who force tracks and think that everything and everyone refers to Michael, should not be!
In the picture, should we discard what Brian Oxman said? I even think it would be a good possibility. If lying is what he said, do not understand why he did it!
Well guys, it seems that we are alone during the trial. Once again we will play roller coaster, but I confess that the trial scares me. TS, you can not appear once in a while, just to clarify our ideas?
And why did you say that maybe we are just crazy? :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: looking4truth on February 27, 2011, 03:06:51 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)

Hey TS. I am going with number 3 because I see Michael's face. It sort of looks like this photo of him from BAD era.

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae134/7C_777/JustSmiling.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on February 27, 2011, 03:08:17 PM
No more guessing (http://www.forosguate.com/images/smilies/velmax/protest.gif)

Yes to
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4ChknY54W0FAFFfWK3LrTYU9lXlfJkVQkbW3f9G1GhTHa6zp2_x9N_-KW)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on February 27, 2011, 03:14:50 PM
Quote from: "looking4truth"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)

Hey TS. I am going with number 3 because I see Michael's face. It sort of looks like this photo of him from BAD era.

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae134/7C_777/JustSmiling.jpg)

THANK YOU! I had been looking for that picture  :lol:

The pattern or "face" in the ambulance picture looks EXACTLY like a mirrored version of that picture.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 03:18:12 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
No more guessing (http://www.forosguate.com/images/smilies/velmax/protest.gif)

Yes to
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4ChknY54W0FAFFfWK3LrTYU9lXlfJkVQkbW3f9G1GhTHa6zp2_x9N_-KW)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on February 27, 2011, 03:26:32 PM
Why is it that i have a bad feeling about this TS
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: looking4truth on February 27, 2011, 03:35:02 PM
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
THANK YOU! I had been looking for that picture  :lol:

The pattern or "face" in the ambulance picture looks EXACTLY like a mirrored version of that picture.

 :lol:  No problem. I freaked out when I saw it. I kept reading responses of people seeing faces and I just couldn't see them but then somehow I saw it and I thought of this picture. I think TS, as always it seems, is testing us because he says "Some people have thought it was a face hidden in the picture {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791;
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambula ... ird-images (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images)}. However, it’s easy to see faces in random shapes such as the clouds, or mountains, etc." but the one area he focuses on looks like MJ's face. And then he says in another post in this thread "I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories. In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step." It seems to me he did just that with this post. ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is it that i have a bad feeling about this TS
Why?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: lilwendy on February 27, 2011, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
No more guessing (http://www.forosguate.com/images/smilies/velmax/protest.gif)

Yes to
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4ChknY54W0FAFFfWK3LrTYU9lXlfJkVQkbW3f9G1GhTHa6zp2_x9N_-KW)

Oh Gema! Thanks for the laughs! hahahahahahaha
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steph on February 27, 2011, 04:07:48 PM
Could  this face like thing be a x-ray image hanging up? if you look at the other ambo man`s elbow you can see other faces below it.These are just x-rays as you can see on michael jackson final days sneak peak stop at 4.25. just a thought.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on February 27, 2011, 04:13:09 PM
The image of Michael's face in the ambulance looks similar to the header of this site http://michaeljacksonrememberedwithlove ... e-rainbow/ (http://michaeljacksonrememberedwithlove.com/2011/01/neverland-was-somewhere-over-the-rainbow/)

sorry, not been able to attach picture, due to board attachment quota maximum
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on February 27, 2011, 04:26:20 PM
If we compare the 4 pictures TS posted we see that the secondary image is more visible on the first picture, the red car is very clear and so is the leaf like pattern. On the other pics the secondary image is les visible and so is the leaf like pattern so maybe it is part of the secondary image. Now it is very odd that it looks like a face and even like Michael...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on February 27, 2011, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is it that i have a bad feeling about this TS
Why?
I can't actually explain....it's something that comes from inside of me...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on February 27, 2011, 04:32:11 PM
Quote from: "everlastinglove_MJ"
The image of Michael's face in the ambulance looks similar to the header of this site http://michaeljacksonrememberedwithlove ... e-rainbow/ (http://michaeljacksonrememberedwithlove.com/2011/01/neverland-was-somewhere-over-the-rainbow/)

sorry, not been able to attach picture, due to board attachment quota maximum

you mean this one?

(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/moonter/face.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 05:03:37 PM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is it that i have a bad feeling about this TS
Why?
I can't actually explain....it's something that comes from inside of me...
Get it out of your system, because there is no need for that feeling. He's alive, you know that and all TS is suggesting is to dissect some old stuff, challenging theories so we will stay sharp and come up with proof, to come to a coherent theory.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJrocksmyworldX on February 27, 2011, 05:04:41 PM
This redirection..I don't see the point. We've all seen this so many times. We all get it, it's fake. What more could be to it? Probably something that just says that it's fake, but we already knew that-it's obvious. Are we just going back on everything, in one big viscous circle? That's all this seems to be, just one big viscous circle.

We're all just stuck in this rabbit hole, but there's no way forward. No thrills or kicks are in this huge game anymore. I'm tired of the same old game. Although I think bec was a little too harsh with what she was saying, as I care about Michael deeply, I felt she had a point.

I love Michael, I truly do. But I'm tired of what he's doing. I'm sick and tired of this ongoing game. You know, I just really want to cry right now. This is what Michael is doing to me. To all of us. And I'm sorry Michael, I really love you, but please just stop. Stop messing around with us.

I know that when you come back, it'll be amazing and brilliant. But in the mean time, I don't want to be messed around with like this. None of us do..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on February 27, 2011, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
.But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law..

This part of TS_comments' post had my mind scurrying in all kinds of directions. What does that mean? Why would it need to hold up in court?

Personally, I don't have any evidence that would be admissible in court. All I have is what I have read on the internet and seen on tv. Unfortunately, the internet will let you put just anything out there whether it's true or not and the same goes for newspapers and television. I don't have access to any legal documents and verified facts surrounding this case... and apparently neither does the court. The only thing we could possibly provide is reasonable doubt and I think that is where my mind started scurrying about telling me "uh oh, what a minute."  Of course, in my sleep deprived state, perhaps I am not understanding clearly.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 05:15:04 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
.But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law..

This part of TS_comments' post had my mind scurrying in all kinds of directions. What does that mean? Why would it need to hold up in court?
Maybe Mike hasn't written the script for the trial yet and needs some help :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on February 27, 2011, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "everlastinglove_MJ"
The image of Michael's face in the ambulance looks similar to the header of this site http://michaeljacksonrememberedwithlove ... e-rainbow/ (http://michaeljacksonrememberedwithlove.com/2011/01/neverland-was-somewhere-over-the-rainbow/)

sorry, not been able to attach picture, due to board attachment quota maximum

you mean this one?

(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/moonter/face.jpg)

Yes, that's the one. Thanks!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 27, 2011, 05:33:15 PM
Quote
Some people have thought it was a face hidden in the picture {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791;
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambula ... ird-images (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images)}. However, it’s easy to see faces in random shapes such as the clouds, or mountains, etc.

Sound to me like ....It is what it is.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TouchedByAnAngel on February 27, 2011, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
.But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law..

This part of TS_comments' post had my mind scurrying in all kinds of directions. What does that mean? Why would it need to hold up in court?

Personally, I don't have any evidence that would be admissible in court. All I have is what I have read on the internet and seen on tv. Unfortunately, the internet will let you put just anything out there whether it's true or not and the same goes for newspapers and television. I don't have access to any legal documents and verified facts surrounding this case... and apparently neither does the court. The only thing we could possibly provide is reasonable doubt and I think that is where my mind started scurrying about telling me "uh oh, what a minute."  Of course, in my sleep deprived state, perhaps I am not understanding clearly.

MJ's got the evidence, this is his Plan. The Truth will come out in court....heck maybe MJ will come out in court?  :lol:  I think TS' comment about "evidence that will challenge unbelievers and hold up in court" is to get us to continue to review what has been found and see how it fits together with the big picture. We have sooooo many of the pieces, I think things will start falling into place soon...and very soon! I'm ever hopeful anyway. The trial has to be where we get close to the end, and that's around the corner now.

Keep Your Head Up and Your eyes open to everything! Buckle up cuz we are heading towards the "climax"  ;)  of this adventure.

Touched by An Angel
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 27, 2011, 05:37:23 PM
Quote
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?



I don't know,..... it seems to me this, :oops:  I am not expert on these things.. :x  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on February 27, 2011, 05:41:11 PM
Quote from: "TouchedByAnAngel"
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
.But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law..

This part of TS_comments' post had my mind scurrying in all kinds of directions. What does that mean? Why would it need to hold up in court?

Personally, I don't have any evidence that would be admissible in court. All I have is what I have read on the internet and seen on tv. Unfortunately, the internet will let you put just anything out there whether it's true or not and the same goes for newspapers and television. I don't have access to any legal documents and verified facts surrounding this case... and apparently neither does the court. The only thing we could possibly provide is reasonable doubt and I think that is where my mind started scurrying about telling me "uh oh, what a minute."  Of course, in my sleep deprived state, perhaps I am not understanding clearly.

MJ's got the evidence, this is his Plan. The Truth will come out in court....heck maybe MJ will come out in court?  :lol:  I think TS' comment about "evidence that will challenge unbelievers and hold up in court" is to get us to continue to review what has been found and see how it fits together with the big picture. We have sooooo many of the pieces, I think things will start falling into place soon...and very soon! I'm ever hopeful anyway. The trial has to be where we get close to the end, and that's around the corner now.

Keep Your Head Up and Your eyes open to everything! Buckle up cuz we are heading towards the "climax"  ;)  of this adventure.

Touched by An Angel

But see, if I could prove THAT in a court of law we wouldn't even be having this discussion. lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: navibl on February 27, 2011, 05:42:13 PM
I just really have to comment here about a specific point.  Why is there this attitude that Michael is doing something TO anyone?  Michael isn't doing anything TO anyone it is FOR you, it's all for LOVE and THAT my friends is not an old cliché that has been handed down since this whole mission started.  Michael is doing this to SAVE lives.  If we can't look at what is in front of us with what has happened with him, how will we ever see the things that are happening in front of our eyes every day?  Obviously there are important facts that have been missed with the picture or TS wouldn’t be revisiting the issue.
What we are seeing here with the LIEs and Deceit this mission is uncovering, goes on around the world every second of every day.  If we continue to sleep, and do not exercise our brain power, which is proven we only use 10% of, how will we know from day to day what to buy into and what not, and how will we know how to dig for truth and not accept everything we are fed.  

Some things that we are going to find with the ever present corruption in the world is going to take more than just saying we don’t believe what we are being told, it is going to take critical thinking to decide what action we are going to have to take that will affect our personal lives on a daily basis.
Please don’t take this as something that is being done TO you personally.  Michael Loves us all beyond comprehension.  Is there anyone of us that would sacrifice themselves to show the world that we need to make a drastic change very soon, before it’s too late.  We are the highest creation on God’s earth; we were created in his image.  Our time here is getting ready to change, “Make That Change” is not just a broad term, it is literal.   How can we change if we don’t know what to change and how to change it. What to avoid and what to accept.  And in the end always remember to DO IT WITH LOVE!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: youngatheart on February 27, 2011, 06:00:40 PM
Quote from: "MJrocksmyworldX"
This redirection..I don't see the point. We've all seen this so many times. We all get it, it's fake. What more could be to it? Probably something that just says that it's fake, but we already knew that-it's obvious. Are we just going back on everything, in one big viscous circle? That's all this seems to be, just one big viscous circle.

We're all just stuck in this rabbit hole, but there's no way forward. No thrills or kicks are in this huge game anymore. I'm tired of the same old game. Although I think bec was a little too harsh with what she was saying, as I care about Michael deeply, I felt she had a point.

I love Michael, I truly do. But I'm tired of what he's doing. I'm sick and tired of this ongoing game. You know, I just really want to cry right now. This is what Michael is doing to me. To all of us. And I'm sorry Michael, I really love you, but please just stop. Stop messing around with us.

I know that when you come back, it'll be amazing and brilliant. But in the mean time, I don't want to be messed around with like this. None of us do..



First I just want to say that I believe it is very important to go back to the beginning as now, after 20 months, we are able to look at things with a clearer mind.  We were all very emotional then and just looking for anything to assure us that Michael was alive.  As a result of that I think a lot of small details were probably overlooked.  Now that we are confident with KNOWING that Michael IS alive, we can now look over all of this evidence again and be much more thorough.  As this thread confirms there are things that had been seen but not thoroughly checked out.  I think it's really interesting to look back at everything with a different perspective.

On a second note, I am so sorry that you are feeling frutrated.  Please don't lose faith.  I don't believe it is Michaels intention to "mess around" with us.  This has been a fantastic journey, one that I am glad I am on.  I have learned so much in the past year and a half about the world and myself.  I will always be grateful to Michael for that.  I am a better person because of it.  And please I mean no disrespect but you have to realize that this is not about us, this is about Michael.  He has to come back in his own time and not just because we want him to.  Everything has to be right and it has to be safe for him.  We are all here because we love Michael and have the utmost respect for him so please have faith in him that he has planned this out completely.

Love and Blessings
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 27, 2011, 06:03:55 PM
Reference pic for starting point.
(http://toppayingideas.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-dead.jpg)
Supposedly the original pic released online by Entertainment Tonight. I say supposedly because I have no proof that it is or isn't. The same tabloid T.V. show Diane Dimond worked at.
Quote
Following Jackson's death in 2009, Dimond became a daily contributor on Entertainment Tonight for its "Michael Jackson Investigation."

Q-Did Michael have Ben give ET a fake pic for a Vendetta?

My Answer-Ben would willingly go along with this I believe because he and Michael became friends over the years and also Ben got paid lots of $$$$$$$ for that pic![/b][/color]
[youtube:3c50o38i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:3c50o38i]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)
Quote
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am

A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard“It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,”Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009.  

The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter.

Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”

At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.

He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.

The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.

Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.

Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
I am posting this article to disprove the hoax regarding the theory/reason why the ambulance drove backwards and slowly. Paramedic Senneff gives the reason for that. Blame it on the fans and paps why they couldn't save Michael, shifting blame onto fans and paps will supposedly relieve him from any harm/blame to the King of Pop.  8-)  ;) He also gives credibility to Ben's pic by saying "At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window."
 
I am also posting some questions that can be either pro hoax or against depending how the questions are answered.

Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?

Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?

Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?

According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?

(http://cm1.theinsider.com/thumbnail/400/400/cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/475/5/400_mjackson_hospital1_090625_x17.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TouchedByAnAngel on February 27, 2011, 07:11:26 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "TouchedByAnAngel"
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
.But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law..

This part of TS_comments' post had my mind scurrying in all kinds of directions. What does that mean? Why would it need to hold up in court?

Personally, I don't have any evidence that would be admissible in court. All I have is what I have read on the internet and seen on tv. Unfortunately, the internet will let you put just anything out there whether it's true or not and the same goes for newspapers and television. I don't have access to any legal documents and verified facts surrounding this case... and apparently neither does the court. The only thing we could possibly provide is reasonable doubt and I think that is where my mind started scurrying about telling me "uh oh, what a minute."  Of course, in my sleep deprived state, perhaps I am not understanding clearly.

MJ's got the evidence, this is his Plan. The Truth will come out in court....heck maybe MJ will come out in court?  :lol:  I think TS' comment about "evidence that will challenge unbelievers and hold up in court" is to get us to continue to review what has been found and see how it fits together with the big picture. We have sooooo many of the pieces, I think things will start falling into place soon...and very soon! I'm ever hopeful anyway. The trial has to be where we get close to the end, and that's around the corner now.

Keep Your Head Up and Your eyes open to everything! Buckle up cuz we are heading towards the "climax"  ;)  of this adventure.

Touched by An Angel

But see, if I could prove THAT in a court of law we wouldn't even be having this discussion. lol

My point, Hon, is that WE don't have to prove any of this, MJ has all the bases covered I'm sure. Because we love him and have been  investigating all this, we have been privileged to a front row seat as this all unfolds. We may feel lost sometimes, but can you imagine all the people that heard of MJ's "passing" and then let it go at that?

I feel blessed to have been drawn into this adventure of a lifetime! We all have Mikey's back, and he most definitely has ours. Together we are going to Make That Change! I have all confidence in Michael bringing a real shift in consciousness forward. He is the catalyst for Major Change...With Major Love  :D

Love you all,
Carol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 27, 2011, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
.But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law..

This part of TS_comments' post had my mind scurrying in all kinds of directions. What does that mean? Why would it need to hold up in court?
Maybe Mike hasn't written the script for the trial yet and needs some help :lol:

Don't say that because then I'll worry.

The concept that this pic was altered already worries me because selling it without disclosing that is super bad. Mr. Ben would get his ass sued for that one. That pic was displayed on magazine covers all over the world with no disclosure of such alleged alterations. I hope there's a legal loophole in the sale of such media that I'm unaware of, otherwise I can't believe MJ would leave himself open for such a silly, legitimate lawsuit like that when this is all said and done.

Sick thing is that it doesn't need to be shopped. Lou Ferigno already gave us the biggest clue everyone brushed past, that MJ likes to send dummies off in ambulances as a joke. Why bother with the physical trouble of, not to mention the legal trouble with, altering a pic when you could just take a real pic of a real dummy inside of that real ambulance and practice the C.Y.A. (cover yer ass) method of hoaxing MJ seems to have done so well everywhere else. Then it's all legal and legit. Besides, they got away with the MJ looking like a 35yo MJ instead of a 50yo MJ, scott free... and that's not even the part alleging to have been altered as of late.

I mean you have an MJ who appears to have time warped back to 1987 inside a modern day 2009 ambulance. In many ways, this seems to be the only bit of proof that Michael Jackson is not dead that is needed at this point in the evidence trail.

I've been in search of proof that would convince non-believers since day one of this journey TS, and evidence that would stand up in the court of law has always been my brass ring. That's the only thing that keeps my head straight throughout. It's like horses. No matter what happens underneath you, keep your eye up and ride forward to a focal point in the distance, and you'll always get there eventually. Our stand up in court evidence has been ever elusive, and therein lies our problem, but also Michael's ultimate C.Y.A. insurance policy. None of us can prove it with the information that we have access to so Michael will retain control over the eventual reveal.

Ps. @TS: thank you for what you said to me. I have a great deal of respect for you and what you do and your dedication to it and seemingly to us. I guess I used you as a sounding board for what I wanted to say to Mr. Jackson in presuming that he will get the message that I post here. Again, I want him to know because I trust that he cares to know where I'm at in this hoax at current. I falter at times in my journey towards becoming a better person. I will keep my eye up and I will ride through it. There are others who have been given a larger burden to carry then I these 20 months past. I thank my friends and fellow members here for gently setting me back on track and reminding me, eyes up!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: longlivetheking on February 27, 2011, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: "dom425"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I’m going to make one more introductory comment here, before taking a deep dive into the evidences regarding the ambulance photo, and the hows of the hoax.  In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it.  And in fact, others should bring in evidence they have found (and indeed, many are doing this already in this thread, which is good); don’t just wait for me to explain everything.



To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.  And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it.  Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence.  This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are  :lol: ).  But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.

Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it).  And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence.  Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth.  But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.

When the trial starts, I will not be doing very many redirects or comments.  There will be plenty for you to investigate—especially since it will be televised; and I don’t want to take your time and attention from that.  However, we have about a month left; let’s see how far we can get connecting the dots on the hows of the hoax (coming up with a good, solid, coherent theory).
When you said we only have month left does that mean the trial will be over in a month or he will return in a month?????
 

TS is referring to the trial, which starts in about a month.  "Can You Feel It?"
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 27, 2011, 08:02:25 PM
(http://i29.tinypic.com/15exnqw.jpg)

OMG roflmao... I just went to the link that TS_comments posted http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambula ... ird-images (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images)

 Come on people get to critical thinking.  ;) Please  :mrgreen:  

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on February 27, 2011, 08:08:52 PM
ahahahahahahahaaa! That's funny!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 27, 2011, 09:03:08 PM
That was funny longlive, you should have left it.

Here's what I found. The "leaf" pattern appears to go behind objects in the foreground in the pic twice. One time the image goes behind the paramedics arm, the second it goes behind the white cloth wee see. See here:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/PatternClose-upAmbulanceX.jpg)

This suggests that the image actually existed on the wall/box/side of ambulance interior.

I do concede that this could have been manipulated during the editing process.

But again the question the shopped theory begs is, why bother?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: a18wheelslady on February 27, 2011, 09:10:10 PM
i have been on cloud 9 since this thread started.
i know it sounds silly but this has been a fun ride with Michael/TS/ and all the group
here. i have to say that i'm so happy that i was able to find this forum to make
my home. ITS ALL FOR LOVE
Hugssssssssssssssssssssssss  
Love You More  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ignisaeternus on February 27, 2011, 09:55:40 PM
Quote from: "bec"
That was funny longlive, you should have left it.

Here's what I found. The "leaf" pattern appears to go behind objects in the foreground in the pic twice. One time the image goes behind the paramedics arm, the second it goes behind the white cloth wee see. See here:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/PatternClose-upAmbulanceX.jpg)

This suggests that the image actually existed on the wall/box/side of ambulance interior.

I do concede that this could have been manipulated during the editing process.

But again the question the shopped theory begs is, why bother?

The only other explanation is that the reflection/leave patterns were correct and everything else was superimposed or edited in (which would explain the overlay).  If that was true- the ambulance would have been empty... Magic trick- all eyes were on it.  While the action was somewhere else.  

My head hurts from this thread.  In a good way.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on February 27, 2011, 10:13:12 PM
So now I’m going to start challenging some of the theories out there, on the ambulance photo.  Please keep in mind that I’m not trying to pick on anyone specific; I am only asking for critical examination, and clear evidence.  And yes, many very good and correct things have been researched and discovered by hoax investigators; I am not trying to discredit all of the tremendous effort that has been put into this for 20 months now.  But there are some particular areas that I want to challenge; and if they can be sustained by solid evidence, fine.  And if not, then we may need to revise some of our conclusions.

Some have said that the photo is fake, because the reflection of the red car is facing the wrong direction.  But the red car was parked facing the same direction that the ambulance drove away while leaving, and in the reflection the red car is facing towards the front of the ambulance.  

A similar idea is that the red car is too low to the ground, for it to be reflected in a window that is much higher than the level of the car.  Anyone can debunk this idea by walking up to a mirror (or a window that has a good reflection in it); the closer you get to the mirror/window, the more you can see things lower and lower to the ground.  By holding the camera up close to the ambulance window, it would be easy for the camera to see a reflection of something much lower than the ambulance window.

Yet another idea is that the red car was parked in the wrong place for it to be reflected in the ambulance window.  However, that depends on what point in time the famous ambulance photo was taken.  If it was taken while the ambulance was still backing out of the driveway, then yes the car reflection would be wrong; but if the photo was taken later as the ambulance started to pull down the street, then the red car was in the right place to be reflected in the ambulance window.

One of the very first theories was that the ambulance photo is fake, because only the yellow shirt guy is there at the window snapping the shot in the still picture (and in the sunshine, no tree shadows); but the red shirt guy is there in the video of it.  However, the still photo with only the yellow shirt guy was taken as the ambulance was coming out of the driveway—you can even see the fire engine behind the ambulance in that still picture.  The video with the red shirt (and the other guy) is a few seconds later, as the ambulance begins to pull away (and there are shadows of trees in that area).

Another common idea is that you can’t take a picture through the tinted ambulance window.  This point has already been questioned and debated on the hoax forums quite a bit, and several people—even of those who support the hoax—think that it can be done, if you use the right camera, settings, and flash (which is no doubt what professional paparazzi would be prepared to do).  Just because someone tried to do it with a cell phone, and didn’t get good results, means nothing; cell phones don’t normally have flash, and they certainly aren’t the high quality camera and flash equipment that would come on a paparazzi camera.  So we can’t really use this tinted glass argument as solid evidence.  For those who want to research it, there is actually a lot of information on the internet (having nothing to do specifically with MJ or ambulances) about taking pictures through dark or tinted windows.

I’m not going to take the time to include pictures of these things, which most of us have seen hundreds of times now; but if anyone else wants, they can add the pictures of the things we are discussing here.  In my next comment, I will start a detailed examination of the possibilities about the leaf pattern, etc.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on February 27, 2011, 10:54:05 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
So now I’m going to start challenging some of the theories out there, on the ambulance photo.  Please keep in mind that I’m not trying to pick on anyone specific; I am only asking for critical examination, and clear evidence.  And yes, many very good and correct things have been researched and discovered by hoax investigators; I am not trying to discredit all of the tremendous effort that has been put into this for 20 months now.  But there are some particular areas that I want to challenge; and if they can be sustained by solid evidence, fine.  And if not, then we may need to revise some of our conclusions.

Some have said that the photo is fake, because the reflection of the red car is facing the wrong direction.  But the red car was parked facing the same direction that the ambulance drove away while leaving, and in the reflection the red car is facing towards the front of the ambulance.  

A similar idea is that the red car is too low to the ground, for it to be reflected in a window that is much higher than the level of the car.  Anyone can debunk this idea by walking up to a mirror (or a window that has a good reflection in it); the closer you get to the mirror/window, the more you can see things lower and lower to the ground.  By holding the camera up close to the ambulance window, it would be easy for the camera to see a reflection of something much lower than the ambulance window.

Yet another idea is that the red car was parked in the wrong place for it to be reflected in the ambulance window.  However, that depends on what point in time the famous ambulance photo was taken.  If it was taken while the ambulance was still backing out of the driveway, then yes the car reflection would be wrong; but if the photo was taken later as the ambulance started to pull down the street, then the red car was in the right place to be reflected in the ambulance window.

One of the very first theories was that the ambulance photo is fake, because only the yellow shirt guy is there at the window snapping the shot in the still picture (and in the sunshine, no tree shadows); but the red shirt guy is there in the video of it.  However, the still photo with only the yellow shirt guy was taken as the ambulance was coming out of the driveway—you can even see the fire engine behind the ambulance in that still picture.  The video with the red shirt (and the other guy) is a few seconds later, as the ambulance begins to pull away (and there are shadows of trees in that area).

Another common idea is that you can’t take a picture through the tinted ambulance window.  This point has already been questioned and debated on the hoax forums quite a bit, and several people—even of those who support the hoax—think that it can be done, if you use the right camera, settings, and flash (which is no doubt what professional paparazzi would be prepared to do).  Just because someone tried to do it with a cell phone, and didn’t get good results, means nothing; cell phones don’t normally have flash, and they certainly aren’t the high quality camera and flash equipment that would come on a paparazzi camera.  So we can’t really use this tinted glass argument as solid evidence.  For those who want to research it, there is actually a lot of information on the internet (having nothing to do specifically with MJ or ambulances) about taking pictures through dark or tinted windows.

I’m not going to take the time to include pictures of these things, which most of us have seen hundreds of times now; but if anyone else wants, they can add the pictures of the things we are discussing here.  In my next comment, I will start a detailed examination of the possibilities about the leaf pattern, etc.

Looking forward to hearing your comments about the leaf pattern. :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 27, 2011, 11:02:43 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

Another common idea is that you can’t take a picture through the tinted ambulance window.  This point has already been questioned and debated on the hoax forums quite a bit, and several people—even of those who support the hoax—think that it can be done, if you use the right camera, settings, and flash (which is no doubt what professional paparazzi would be prepared to do).  

It's always amazing to read your posts TS. Thank you. :) I was wondering if the flashlight was used, why don't we see the reflection of the light on the window of the ambulance? Or could that have been removed from the picture with photoshop? Or was the picture taken with a cell phone? But it looks like a camera to me and probably with the flashlight on. And we see the red car's reflection but we can not see the person's reflection who took the picture. He was closer to the window, how can't we see his reflection?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: longlivetheking on February 27, 2011, 11:06:04 PM
I would L.O.V.E. to ask Ben Evenstad about "that day and the other da...and ah...and ah..."

I NEED to watch the Ben Evenstad interview again...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 27, 2011, 11:24:46 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
So now I’m going to start challenging some of the theories out there, on the ambulance photo.  Please keep in mind that I’m not trying to pick on anyone specific; I am only asking for critical examination, and clear evidence.  And yes, many very good and correct things have been researched and discovered by hoax investigators; I am not trying to discredit all of the tremendous effort that has been put into this for 20 months now.  But there are some particular areas that I want to challenge; and if they can be sustained by solid evidence, fine.  And if not, then we may need to revise some of our conclusions.

Some have said that the photo is fake, because the reflection of the red car is facing the wrong direction.  But the red car was parked facing the same direction that the ambulance drove away while leaving, and in the reflection the red car is facing towards the front of the ambulance.  

I agree. Car is pointing in the right direction.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
A similar idea is that the red car is too low to the ground, for it to be reflected in a window that is much higher than the level of the car.  Anyone can debunk this idea by walking up to a mirror (or a window that has a good reflection in it); the closer you get to the mirror/window, the more you can see things lower and lower to the ground.  By holding the camera up close to the ambulance window, it would be easy for the camera to see a reflection of something much lower than the ambulance window.

Agreed as well.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Yet another idea is that the red car was parked in the wrong place for it to be reflected in the ambulance window.  However, that depends on what point in time the famous ambulance photo was taken.  If it was taken while the ambulance was still backing out of the driveway, then yes the car reflection would be wrong; but if the photo was taken later as the ambulance started to pull down the street, then the red car was in the right place to be reflected in the ambulance window.

Here I am going to call BS. I think the yellow guy made the picture, because as far as I can see the red one holds a video camera. But who made the pic is not even important. In the video you can see clearly that both men only have a good shot (looking at the angle) when the ambulance is still backing out and the car can't be seen in the refelction. As soon as the ambulance is in a place where the car could be in the reflection, the red guy is pointing his camera in the wrong angle. Even if the angle were right, the guy would block the reflection and we would see him instead of the car, or at least a big part of him. If the yellow guy could have snapped it at that moment, same problem occurs: red guy in the reflection.

0:53-0:56
[youtube:sztkxi08]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:sztkxi08]

Right angle, clear shot but car can't be in the reflection:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb01.png)

Same here:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb02.png)

Car can be in the reflection here, but the red guy is blocking the viw, so he had to have been in the reflection too:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb03.png)

Also, nowhere in this video we see this scenario, the yellow guy making the picture and the red guy behind the ambulance:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/4_proof_pic.jpg)

Quote from: "TS_comments"
One of the very first theories was that the ambulance photo is fake, because only the yellow shirt guy is there at the window snapping the shot in the still picture (and in the sunshine, no tree shadows); but the red shirt guy is there in the video of it.  However, the still photo with only the yellow shirt guy was taken as the ambulance was coming out of the driveway—you can even see the fire engine behind the ambulance in that still picture.  The video with the red shirt (and the other guy) is a few seconds later, as the ambulance begins to pull away (and there are shadows of trees in that area).

Scenarios do not match. In the video we see the yellow guy running to the ambulance when the red guy is already at the side window. The poses as we see them in the still, do not match the video at any time.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Another common idea is that you can’t take a picture through the tinted ambulance window.  This point has already been questioned and debated on the hoax forums quite a bit, and several people—even of those who support the hoax—think that it can be done, if you use the right camera, settings, and flash (which is no doubt what professional paparazzi would be prepared to do).  Just because someone tried to do it with a cell phone, and didn’t get good results, means nothing; cell phones don’t normally have flash, and they certainly aren’t the high quality camera and flash equipment that would come on a paparazzi camera.  So we can’t really use this tinted glass argument as solid evidence.  For those who want to research it, there is actually a lot of information on the internet (having nothing to do specifically with MJ or ambulances) about taking pictures through dark or tinted windows.

I have no clue if that's possible. I would have to try and see for myself with the right equipment first. I agree that you can't compare professional cameras with a cell. But I also heard that you need a special lens for it, one you normally would not use on a sunny day like June 25, 2009. But on the other hand you could think that they were waiting for MJ coming out of the gates in an SUV with similar windows. Do we have some professionals on here?

Quote from: "TS_comments"
I’m not going to take the time to include pictures of these things, which most of us have seen hundreds of times now; but if anyone else wants, they can add the pictures of the things we are discussing here.  In my next comment, I will start a detailed examination of the possibilities about the leaf pattern, etc.

Bring it on!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 27, 2011, 11:37:33 PM
Ok here are some screenshots from the video.
In the first one, I think the guy who is holding a professional paparazzi camera is Ben. He's at the back of the ambulance.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/25zp2te.jpg)

In this one we see two of the guys standing very close to each other and both are taking pictures with a cell phone or with a small camera. That explains why we don't see any flashlight reflection on the window. And this can explain why we have different frames of pictures. (if we have)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/5bb3mu.jpg)

And the last one is the yellow shirt guy who is also in the second picture. But any of these explain why we don't see the reflection of these guys on the window. They were so close to the window, closer than the red car but still no reflection of them.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2eknedf.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on February 27, 2011, 11:56:03 PM
The first thing I want to do with the leaf pattern, is show that it just plain can’t possibly be a reflection (or part of the background image).  

Okay bec, this time I’m going to give you an “A” for awesome!  You took the words out of my fingers (computer keyboard), and you even did the red circles so I don’t have to!  Actually, I like it when others come up with the answers before I do.  What you just pointed out is one of the strong points about the pattern—both that it is not a reflection, and also that it (probably) is not Photoshopped into the picture.

Notice especially inside the larger red circle: the pattern stops abruptly at the edge of the paramedic’s arm, it does not even fade out gradually—even though the arm at that point is almost as dark as the surrounding background.  This indicates strongly that the pattern is actually inside the ambulance, farther away than the paramedic’s arm; and his arm blocks the light of that pattern.  If it were a reflection, it would certainly continue to be seen at least somewhat on the edge of his arm—and only fade away in the lighter areas of his arm.

And there are a few other reasons why we may know for sure that this leaf pattern is not some kind of reflection.  As I continue to discuss this, I will refer to the five pictures at the beginning of this thread; but I won’t keep posting them here, to save time and space.  Instead, I will refer to them as: PatternClose-up, Ambulance1, Ambulance2, Ambulance3, and Ambulance4 (these names can also be found, using right-click and “Properties”).

The Ambulance1 picture has the strongest image of the red car and background, so let’s start by taking a close look at that picture.  Notice the curb in front of the car; then notice the ground (and sunlight with shadows) between the curb and wall.  The wall itself can’t be seen very much, because there is not much on the wall to be seen (refer again to the wall video, if needed).  But you can see the top of the wall; it is a straight line from near the top left of the picture (a little below the paramedic’s patch), and ending a little lower on the right side of the picture (in the bright spot).  Above that line, you can see again the ground above the wall (and a little more sunlight reflection).

Now that you have a good view of the entire background picture (and not just the car), notice that the leaf pattern is more than half as tall as the wall; so if it was an image on the wall, being reflected in the ambulance photo, we should easily see that large of an image on the video of that wall—but it’s not there!  The wall in the video is almost completely blank.

However, there are some real leaves in the wall video; but they are connected to trees—not just hanging there in mid-space.  Yet the leaf pattern in the ambulance photo is isolated, not connected to anything.  To make it even clearer: notice again the line which is the top of the wall; it runs clear across the ambulance photo—not broken anywhere by a tree trunk, or even smaller branches.  Also the leaves in the photo don’t seem to come close to the size or shape of the leaves in the wall video.

Last but certainly not least: we can eliminate the leaf pattern from being part of the background image, simply by comparing Ambulance1 with Ambulance2.  Compare for example the headlight of the red car in the two pictures; the pointed left end is straight under MJ’s mouth in Ambulance1, but straight under the top of his forehead in Ambulance2.  The background image has moved significantly to the right between the first and second picture; but the leaf pattern is in the same place.

Yes, a bit more of the leaf pattern goes behind the paramedic’s arm in Ambulance2; but this is a very slight difference, compared to how far the red car has moved.  And if the leaf pattern is inside the ambulance (not a reflection): then this slight difference can easily occur from a slight movement in the paramedic’s arm, and/or a slightly different camera position.  But if the leaf pattern were part of the background image, then there is no explanation for why it does not move to the right just as much as the red car moves to the right.

So we have three or four real strong reasons here, why the leaf pattern is not a reflection or part of the background image.  Unless anyone can debunk these reasons, then we can move on to the next step: more detail on whether the leaf pattern is Photoshopped or not.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on February 28, 2011, 12:28:23 AM
Pushing further, the shadow cast by the paramedics arm makes the portion of the pattern that it falls over stand out more.

This is strange to me because a shadow blocks light. Light is what allows your eye (or a camera lens) to "see" detail.

In this case, the shadow appears to enhance our ability to see the pattern detail.

Ps. TS, thank you for the A for awesome. lol.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 28, 2011, 12:29:56 AM
I'm starting to think this photo was taken in a set and not inside an ambulance. Just a thought....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 28, 2011, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Pushing further, the shadow cast by the paramedics arm makes the portion of the pattern that it falls over stand out more.

This is strange to me because a shadow blocks light. Light is what allows your eye (or a camera lens) to "see" detail.

In this case, the shadow appears to enhance our ability to see the pattern detail.

Ps. TS, thank you for the A for awesome. lol.


Good observation bec!  :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on February 28, 2011, 12:55:12 AM
Just changed my mind about the leaf pattern: it doesn't look like chinese writing anymore  but like cartoons images.
To be more specific, now I see Peter Pan with some birds flying above his head :lol:
All heading to the left :roll:

can't believe myself smh  :roll:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on February 28, 2011, 01:05:14 AM
Gina, I have to disagree. No PP.  :lol:
There are two faces in the pics.
Pic 1 shows a face with closed eyes - sleepy, relaxed.
Pic 4 shows a face with open eyes and a joysmile.
We have seen so many eyes shopped into pictures that we cannot count them anymore and this is not due to a vivid imagination.

Bec's observation is a fine one - I just would like to know whether the pictures of this thread are also the ones we have seen in the past.

My request goes to Souza to allow picture upload again (extend picture quota) so that we can also come up with our details because that is not really fair play for the time being.

Quote
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.
Thank you.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on February 28, 2011, 01:23:41 AM
OK, as I'm the only one seeing Peter Pan, I guess I am totally wrong.
But I can't help looking at Michael and I saw he has no shirt on and that shoulder really looks like HIS shoulder :(
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 28, 2011, 03:15:59 AM
TS, well this all doesn't seem possible to be this much fun, and the brain stimulation makes a person feel super "alive"! This 20 months being here has been for me like I was on Survival, The Amazing Race, The Apprentice and on and on all rolled into one. People think I'm crazy for loving this all so much, and I feel people are missing out. Thanks so much for being who you are, whoever you are!  :D Looking forward to whatever lies ahead, hopefully the final stretch. I'll be here cheering Michael on with everyone!

Quote from: "Yambo3003"
I'm starting to think this photo was taken in a set and not inside an ambulance. Just a thought....
That's exactly what I was starting to think. Seeing as we're scrutinizing these pics, I'm noticing that even if a professional camera with settings for tint, took a pic through the glass, it would diminish the colors. We clearly see bright yellow, red, tan brown skin which should not be. Also there is too much underlighting the EMT's arms, legs, MJ, and equipment. And if taking the photo from outside the vehicle, the sides areas around the interior would be slightly distorted through glass and especially darker, but the color, clarity and brightness extend out to all the edges. For me the one proof that would stand in a court of law would be the fact that the photographer's reflection is not in prominent view. That seals it for me. Therefore the conclusion I make is that the whole photo is not taken inside the ambulance but taken on set. Perhaps all the equipment was taken out and assembled on set exactly as it would be in the ambulance. The MJ dummy or MJ with tan make-up on lays there with the acting EMT.Then the photo of the car is layered on in photoshop. The paps with the yellow and red shirts are acting and simulating that they are taking that special shot to fit with the plan. The leaves on the ambulance storage door (whatever it is) are drawn on by someone/anybody like MJ or even his kids. I agree the leaves are way too sharp to be a reflection and of course Bec showed they cut off behind the arm and equipment. Why there are leaves added needs more brainstorming. So the whole scene in the street is set up to match this photo or vica   versa. Amazingly clever! All the inconsistencies and seeming realities are all part of the illusion for us to wrack our brain over. Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 28, 2011, 03:56:32 AM
Speculating on the "end of the world" scenario and "We've only got 4 years to get it right", and thinking about the leaves.
Quote
Matthew 24:30-39 (King James Version)

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The 100 Carolwood house was flooded with water on June 28 with the same red Toyota Prius still parked in front; still a mystery to me, but the flood could be a related reminder sign.
Quote
Pri·us   /ˈpriəs/  [pree-uhs]  
–noun, . Trademark .
a brand of hybrid car, one of the first commercially successful, that runs at lower speeds on an electric motor powered by a battery pack, and at higher speeds on a gasoline engine, which can also recharge the battery.

Origin:
1997; from the Latin prius  meaning “coming before”; also related to such English words as “prior” and “primary”

—Citations
“In hybrids such as the Toyota Prius, computer software decides when to run the [gasoline] engine, when to run the electric motor and when to recharge the battery. … A full hybrid, such as the Toyota Prius, can provide a fuel economy improvement of 60 percent or more.”
  —Joseph J. Romm and Andrew A. Fran, “Hybrid Vehicles Gain Traction,” Scientific American  (April 2006)
Are these all signs?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on February 28, 2011, 06:51:46 AM
Long shot here.....but what if the whole purpose of the red car, relection on the window, is to tell us that maybe MJ is in that car ???

And the image of the leaves, could be related to Palm trees, Dubai or Hawaii??

Or, it looks a little bit like "Hold my Hand" video ending, when we see a reflection in the puddle and then we see a palm tree ???
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on February 28, 2011, 07:20:35 AM
OK, I am a little late on this, I just figured out that red light was a reflection of a red car that clearly was there. The red car's reflection is not photoshoped right? So there was an original picture taken there that day that moment.Or should I say there were at least 4 original pictures.

Now ........we think it wasn't Michael in those pictures..... but the paramedics were there, so if we look at their position in the ambulance and to what they are doing there and assuming they are not in the hoax, they had to work on a body. One of them had his hand on that body's chest and the other is keeping something in his left hand OK?

So, if they are not in the hoax, they were clearly working on that body, so we can safely assume a body was there.

So please someone tell me why we think it wasn't Michael's body  :?  :( .......
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: lilwendy on February 28, 2011, 07:34:04 AM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
I'm starting to think this photo was taken in a set and not inside an ambulance. Just a thought....

All this picture analysis and thoughts of this possibly being in a set makes me think of the pictures of man landing on the moon. Lol

But that's another topic all together... ;-)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: croMJfan on February 28, 2011, 07:48:23 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Quote from: "croMJfan"
I'm new with this stuff with the hoax and all. I don't have any experience but from what I've seen from another people and their clues and thoughts. I wanted to share this with you.Has anybody seen something wierd about this photo? It's an interview with Ben, the photographer. It sais RIP KING backwords behind his back on a piece of paper. What does that suppose to mean?  

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/9_ben_evenstad_interview.jpg)

I think of it this way. RIP = Rest In Peace....but PIR ??? PIR = Peace In Rest....maybe it's related to the hoax I don't know...like it's telling us Michael needs PEACE in his REST ( read: faking his death ) . Do you agree? Tell me what you think.

L.O.V.E.
First of all I wanna say Hi...I remember on another thread this was mentioned but I cant remember where...but I have no idea what this means but I think it could be a clue to the hoax. Why its backwards is another thing.

Thanks TS but if we hit a dead end in a theory does tha mean its wrong?
I did see the pic your referring to when I watched the video. The paper is taped from the other side of the window. Most likely it was wrote with a sharpie pen which will show through paper and can be seen from the other side of a window.

Does that make sense?

Peace

Hy, thanks for taking the time to reply me. It could be the case, but then why is it taped on the outside? It doesn't make sence to me that that piece of paper is taped on the OUTSIDE of the room, or whatever it is. Looking forward to your reply.

L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AnaMarcia on February 28, 2011, 08:12:25 AM
It seems that Michael was in that car then! Or maybe a double!
Maybe Michael has really gone for a ride in an ambulance. Or maybe the picture is real, but the timing is wrong ... ie, there is this picture of Michael, but in another place and another day.
Oh God! Hopefully more clarification!  :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 28, 2011, 09:57:24 AM
So we have to focus on 2 things; the hows of the hoax and some of the people in it.
So I am guessing from what we've seen Ben is apart of the hoax.
The paramedics I don't think are as they could not recognize MJ as they thought it  was an old man but they were definitely working on a person. So I am guessing someone did die that day or it was a dummy which would mean the paramedics would be in the hoax too (but I doubt they are).

When Ben said; "the other day" maybe photos were taken the day before June 25th that were staged like in a set (which one of you already mentioned). So Ben returned on June 25th when someone would died.
He then came back on June 25th to take more pictures to make it look like he got the actual pictures of MJ in the ambulance to say he was there that day (but maybe he did not use these pictures that he took on June 25th, who even knows that these photos are any good).

I don't think the red car is significant but it is probably there for a reason.Maybe for the others that were around the area it would prove that Ben was there that day as the red car was there.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 28, 2011, 10:18:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)

You can see in the video of the interior of the ambulance camilla not at the level of the window, this below, the photographer " should have tilted the camera to obtain that photo ". You can see that this stopped with the camara pointing directly, not if i mean well.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paulnotpeter on February 28, 2011, 10:20:31 AM
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here.  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: looking4truth on February 28, 2011, 10:30:24 AM
Quote from: "lilwendy"
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
I'm starting to think this photo was taken in a set and not inside an ambulance. Just a thought....

All this picture analysis and thoughts of this possibly being in a set makes me think of the pictures of man landing on the moon. Lol

But that's another topic all together... ;-)

 :lol: Good point.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 28, 2011, 10:47:04 AM
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here.  :D

If your talking about the words near the pattern...I think I see a 'X' or 'H' or both...nice to meet you too.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on February 28, 2011, 10:51:32 AM
New on BANKSY....

Graffiti Artist Banksy Banned from Oscars
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110223/en_ ... m_oscars_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110223/en_ac/7919608_graffiti_artist_banksy_banned_from_oscars_1)


So the other thing that this photo makes me think of is the mysterious artist Banksy, who has been all over the L.A. area lately.  Banksy is a graffiti artist who's identity has never been confirmed.   His art is amazing and unique.  Just type in Banksy on google images.  He's even been nominated for an Oscar this year (this Sunday actually) for Best Documentary and he wanted to show up in a mask to keep his identity a secret but I'm not sure if he's allowed to or not.  It would be so cool if he showed up in a Guy Fawkes mask!  But back to the above photo, the hidden face (that I see anyways) looks like it's been drawn on, sketched on the photo somehow by an artist.  It's reminiscent of Banksy's style or something.  I hope I'm not the only one who sees that because if I am, maybe what I'm looking at isn't the same face others see.

And sometimes the pic looks like it's a photograph of the "actual" ambulance photo.

Thanks for the ambulance photo reminder - it has been making a comeback in recent months, as it should.[/quote]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: trustno1 on February 28, 2011, 11:09:21 AM
Banksy was told he wasn't allowed to wear a disguise so he declined to show up.  I was talking about him in the dodo thread the other day, I reckon they'd get on well! As for the photo I've tried cropping, flipping, backlighting, filtering, etc on the leaves/face pattern and the only thing I know for sure is that my eyes are like this... :shock:  :lol:  I don't think it is actually leaves now after staring at it so long. Though the fact that it resembles leaves on first glance may be all that was required.  As for seeing a word paulnotpeter, I can't make it out.  But then my eyes are shot after all this close scrutiny!  Welcome, by the way! :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on February 28, 2011, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Banksy was told he wasn't allowed to wear a disguise so he declined to show up.  I was talking about him in the dodo thread the other day, I reckon they'd get on well! As for the photo I've tried cropping, flipping, backlighting, filtering, etc on the leaves/face pattern and the only thing I know for sure is that my eyes are like this... :shock:  :lol:  I don't think it is actually leaves now after staring at it so long. Though the fact that it resembles leaves on first glance may be all that was required.  As for seeing a word paulnotpeter, I can't make it out.  But then my eyes are shot after all this close scrutiny!  Welcome, by the way! :D

Yep I know what you were getting at.  I just thought I'd throw this in as it's funny that this artist (which MJ is) is unknown in his identity and also wanted to wear a mask!!  Wonder where his idea came from :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on February 28, 2011, 11:49:47 AM
If the leaf pattern was inside the ambulance, was the photo taken  beforehand and with the pic ready to go,  Ben and friend were acting  on the 25th? I can't reconcile  this shot of a youthful MJ on the gurney with what we've been told from the ambo's, that he looked like a bald, frail old hospice patient who they didn't recognize. Not according to my eyes. In fact he looks to have discovered the fountain of youth and turned back time to 1989.  Now if perchance that ambulance at Carolwood on the 25th had the leaf mosiac forming a collage of MJ faces within the one larger face which is another when reversed [ whose a clever artist then?] it would mean that the paramedics are also a part of this hoax as any functioning professional vehicle would not have that on their drawer/wall.   And what time precisely was it that Michael had long gone....to the airport.
Right here I want to add my disclaimer: that at any  time I am free to change my mind on said theory and adopt a more plausible line of reasoning.
TS ever since we started noticing faces and strange goings on within TMZ posted pictures , I have really really really wanted to know why. I am asking why? What is the purpose and why so much effort invested in something so few recognize.  :?: Okay.. I can hear the cogs in my brain grinding to a halt for now.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: taty_2crazy on February 28, 2011, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
I'm starting to think this photo was taken in a set and not inside an ambulance. Just a thought....


Yeah "yambo3003" I'm starting to get the same feeling! ;) I have no doubt that it was photoshopped. :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Terror2k10 on February 28, 2011, 12:19:20 PM
I really love the fact that TS is giving us believers a advanced peek at somethings that may be brought up at the trial,when the truth finally reveals itself to the money hungry people who wanted to put this trial on television for the whole world to see. I also do not think the photo is a photoshoped , I have a feeling it was a set, maybe filmed at culver studios some time before"DOME project"?,just a guess. If we are a month away from the BAM and TS will continue to break this down like this till the trial"the greatest show" begins. I anxiously await the truth about,how the greatest hoax in the history of man was pulled off. :D They bought it hook, line, and sinker,because it was all for the MONEY.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 28, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
Starline Tourists See Jackson Drama Unfold
Originally posted Jun 26th 2009 5:05 AM PDT by TMZ Staff

A bus full of tourists thought they were driving up a fancy street to look at Michael Jackson's front gate. Instead, they witnessed the last moments of Michael Jackson's life.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/06/26/0625_jackson_starline_video2-1.jpg)
Thirteen stunned people aboard a Starline Tours bus saw the King of Pop being whisked to the hospital, in full cardiac arrest. You hear the tour guide cryptically say, "This is Michael Jackson's estate, everyone. So we'll find out later in the news what happened."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-j ... ine-tours/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-died-cardiac-arrest-ambulance-tourists-starline-tours/)

WATCH VIDEO: http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true ... 3ef6573bd3 (http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=a9fb2e65-bf09-4467-8822-fa3ef6573bd3)

That video shows a better angle of the ambulance backing out. It shows where the red shirt guy was and it shows how long he could have been standing at the side window to get the shot inside of the ambulance. Also the picture can be taken through the glass even though it is dark tint. It can be done by the angle the camera is positioned.

It can be done using certain lenses.


http://www.homephotog.com/tips/photo-glass.shtml (http://www.homephotog.com/tips/photo-glass.shtml)
Quote
Tips and Tricks: Glass and Reflections
Photos Through Glass

Need to try and take a photo through glass? There are a few ways to do it. The general rule of thumb is to shoot at an oblique 45 degree angle to the glass. If you absolutely must use a flash, this will help keep it from blowing back into the camera and creating that big white glare.

The second option is to use a rotating "polarizing filter". This is a filter you screw on to the end of your lens. It is generally used to help enhance the sky in photographs, but can also do an amazing job of eliminating reflections - just rotate it until the reflections are minimized and shoot away!

Another common problem when trying to take photographs through or of glass windows or objects is reflections. While in most cases it is difficult to completely get rid of all reflections, and almost impossible when outdoors, you can improve the quality of the image by making sure you are not an accidental subject or that the reflection is somewhat minimized by adjusting your angle. This can be either by moving horizontally or by adjusting the height of the camera to the object.

Experimentation with angles or by taking images at multiple angles will help ensure you have an acceptable image to print or work with.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Terror2k10 on February 28, 2011, 12:44:15 PM
PLEASE disregard my last post I made a mistake this is what i meant to say.
I really love the fact that TS is giving us believers a advanced peek at somethings that may be brought up at the trial,when the truth finally reveals itself to the money hungry people who wanted to put this trial on television for the whole world to see. I also think the photo is photoshopped,Because TMZ for awhile was showing us how a photo that was regular could look the same but have many little things added,they did that to quite a few photos saying can you spot the differences,If we are a month away from the BAM and TS will continue to break this down like this till the trial"the greatest show" begins. I will anxiously await the truth about,how the greatest hoax in the history of man was pulled off. :D They bought it hook, line, and sinker,because it was all for the MONEY.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: "croMJfan"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Quote from: "croMJfan"
I'm new with this stuff with the hoax and all. I don't have any experience but from what I've seen from another people and their clues and thoughts. I wanted to share this with you.Has anybody seen something wierd about this photo? It's an interview with Ben, the photographer. It sais RIP KING backwords behind his back on a piece of paper. What does that suppose to mean?  

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/9_ben_evenstad_interview.jpg)

I think of it this way. RIP = Rest In Peace....but PIR ??? PIR = Peace In Rest....maybe it's related to the hoax I don't know...like it's telling us Michael needs PEACE in his REST ( read: faking his death ) . Do you agree? Tell me what you think.

L.O.V.E.
First of all I wanna say Hi...I remember on another thread this was mentioned but I cant remember where...but I have no idea what this means but I think it could be a clue to the hoax. Why its backwards is another thing.

Thanks TS but if we hit a dead end in a theory does tha mean its wrong?
I did see the pic your referring to when I watched the video. The paper is taped from the other side of the window. Most likely it was wrote with a sharpie pen which will show through paper and can be seen from the other side of a window.

Does that make sense?

Peace

Hy, thanks for taking the time to reply me. It could be the case, but then why is it taped on the outside? It doesn't make sence to me that that piece of paper is taped on the OUTSIDE of the room, or whatever it is. Looking forward to your reply.

L.O.V.E.
Well I am just guessing here, the paper is on the outside because whoever put it there did it that way. LOL sorry I don't know for sure because I wasn't there.

I just figured it is on the outside of the window and that is why the wording is backwards.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on February 28, 2011, 12:54:39 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
 
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)

I think these have to be a series of photoshopped pictures.  The leaf pattern is not the same in each one and the pattern is not 'on' the cupboard but appears to be in one plane where it crosses over the dark handle shape (close-up and Ambulance1).  

Actually, none of the shadows seem to make sense in the way they fall against objects.  The shadows along arms and legs seem to have a life of their own.  In the Ambulance1 picture, the shadow from the left knee and lower leg of the closest guy is partially changed to red along the exact area of the shadow where it hits the blue headrest.  The shadow should cause that area to be darker so how does a red reflection show more clearly and sharply exactly in place of the shadow?
 
I keep looking from pic to pic at the right leg and knee of the same guy - there is something is very odd about that leg.  In the last picture a dark shape can be seen cutting across and obscuring the lower part of his right leg.  What is that?  It doesn't seem to be a the right height to be the edge of a flat gurney.

The lights on the car change size between A1 and A2 - is it proportional to the small change in the distance?  As for the red car it just seems too large in each picture to to be at the distance it is supposed to be from the ambulance.  

I can't see how, the gurney, the ambulance window, a photographer and the car were ever positioned for this photo to have been taken.  Can anyone here prove that they were - using the videos we've seen?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 28, 2011, 01:05:11 PM
Quote
Elsa wrote: I can't see how, the gurney, the ambulance window, a photographer and the car were ever positioned for this photo to have been taken. Can anyone here prove that they were using the videos we've seen?


Displaying the video of the interior of the ambulance is that the camilla not this at the level of the window, this below, the paramedico makes ! Bad ! The atus this inclined, how the photographer gets that photo without tilt the camera?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 28, 2011, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
New on BANKSY....

Graffiti Artist Banksy Banned from Oscars
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110223/en_ ... m_oscars_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110223/en_ac/7919608_graffiti_artist_banksy_banned_from_oscars_1)


So the other thing that this photo makes me think of is the mysterious artist Banksy, who has been all over the L.A. area lately.  Banksy is a graffiti artist who's identity has never been confirmed.   His art is amazing and unique.  Just type in Banksy on google images.  He's even been nominated for an Oscar this year (this Sunday actually) for Best Documentary and he wanted to show up in a mask to keep his identity a secret but I'm not sure if he's allowed to or not.  It would be so cool if he showed up in a Guy Fawkes mask!  But back to the above photo, the hidden face (that I see anyways) looks like it's been drawn on, sketched on the photo somehow by an artist.  It's reminiscent of Banksy's style or something.  I hope I'm not the only one who sees that because if I am, maybe what I'm looking at isn't the same face others see.

And sometimes the pic looks like it's a photograph of the "actual" ambulance photo.

Thanks for the ambulance photo reminder - it has been making a comeback in recent months, as it should.
Fascinating this Banksy, thanks for suggesting him. In this nominated film there is a lot of Michaelisms, though I know it's not MJ. As in bullets shooting around the intro logo, monkeys, rats and secret romance and more.
[youtube:u6lqcg3r]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0b90YppquE[/youtube:u6lqcg3r]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on February 28, 2011, 02:15:21 PM
I think that even if the explanation was given to me now, I would not understand it  :lol: and i'm wondering how this can convince non-believers? Well is it possible that they enhanced the colours on some pixels on that door so as to make it look like leaves? It would finally not be photoshopped? nor part of the secondary image and not really part of the interior design but rather a kind of illusion? I don't know if it's possible because of the shadows... (I'm crazy btw LOL just throwing what's in my mind).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 28, 2011, 02:33:40 PM
Quote
Sarahli wrote:

I think that even if the explanation was given to me now, I would not understand it  and i'm wondering how this can convince non-believers? Well is it possible that they enhanced the colours on some pixels on that door so as to make it look like leaves? It would finally not be photoshopped? nor part of the secondary image and not really part of the interior design but rather a kind of illusion? I don't know if it's possible because of the shadows... (I'm crazy btw LOL just throwing what's in my mind).
:lol:
(http://www.emoticones.com/nuevos-emoticonos-movimiento/emoticon-fotografo.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJrocksmyworldX on February 28, 2011, 02:54:24 PM
I just want to say, I apoligise for my last post reply. I think people (luckily) ignored it anyway, but it was wrong of me. I was tired and I couldn't think straight. I'm really sorry. Maybe I just got frustrated with the game because I was stuck on that one level. But this isn't just MY game, perhaps I wasn't realizing that. It's worldwide and it's big.

Now, about the picture, I think it's photoshopped, the badges have been added on, for starters. I don't think I see a face in there, but I think the leaves (or what look like leaves) signify that it's photoshopped. It kind of looks like a floral pattern in a way..maybe like a netting? It could have a kind of symbolism but I'm not sure about that..

Also, yeah, this was possibly in a studio. Away from anyone to see it. Now, I'm just thinking, is Michael in that red car? Possibly..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on February 28, 2011, 03:39:45 PM
Quote from: "paula-c"
In the next link there is also a discussion of the picture of the ambulance


viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8634 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8634)

Quote from: "msteetee34"
Quote from: "ladymedic"
Beside the eyes look at the difference between the equipment being used in the photo with MJ and the other photo posted with the anonymous person. The equipment in the MJ photo look way old and outdated compared to the ambulances that are used now days. That's another reason to believe the photo is old.
The MJ photo is NOT outdated. 100% is not. All ambulances are different inside. All of the equipment in that picture is very much current. I don't understand what people see as being old. Lifepak 12s are very new, the equipment they're using in general is all current (the ET tube, tube holder, veniguard, ETCO2, BVM, patches on the medics). Some of it my company uses now.

Quote
LadyMedic wrote:
And I have to say I do like what you're saying about the picture and the point I've been trying to make all along. Sure, this whole thing could be a hoax. But that does not mean that there is going to be error in everything they did. The ambulance photo, from the standpoint of a paramedic, is legit. As is the 911 call procedure. Does that mean it's MJ in the ambulance? No. But what they have done to the person/dummy/etc. is totally normal. And the equipment they're using is current.

This
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 28, 2011, 04:16:53 PM
The leaves are photoshopped into the picture. When you look at the background behind the leaves, you see a handle to open a cabin (see video of inside the ambulance). The leaves are continuing over it, and they are darker there, which means this should be a layer with an opacity of around 25% over the first layer (background). The EMT's and MJ/dummy are the third layer, put over the second layer with a 100% opacity, what explains the fact that the leaves are disappearing behind the sheet and the guy's arm. The next layer is the car/EMT bag. Maybe there are more, I would love to get the .psd... :lol:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/leaves01.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on February 28, 2011, 04:25:42 PM
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 28, 2011, 04:30:24 PM
Quote
Le Papillon Bleu wrote:

Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

Perhaps we back in time for that phase more important of hoax this in the early days
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 28, 2011, 04:30:48 PM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

I think that after 20 months we all know the reasons and are very aware of it. I have been looking at parts of the picture I haven't noticed before and I think TS' point is that he wants us to take a closer look at details like that, to build actual proof that Mike is not dead, or at least that stuff like this is fake. This way it is easier to explain and show to non-believers. Now there are hundreds of theories on the board and we all have our own 'proofs' that stuff is fake, this could get us all on the same page. Facts instead of theories. Piece by piece.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chloead505 on February 28, 2011, 04:41:14 PM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

Finally! Someone dares to ask the ultimate question: AND SO?

What's the purpose of this thread in the first place? Honestly, and with no offense to anyone. Why is it important to debunk the picture? Maybe someone can enlighten us who don't understand it?

As for the picture: I can't see any leaves at all. One of the shots it looks like a reversed reflection of Michael's face lying in the ambulance. On another one it looks like a random patch - perhaps just a dirty window. I don't think there is a way of finding out unless somebody here actually KNOWS. We may be guessing for days and weeks until maybe finally someone hits the head on the nail - but not because it is possible to figure it out but because statistically taken, after some time someone will simply happen to be right.

Back to the picture: has anyone ever thought about the size of the windows of the ambulance and the width and angle of the photograph? I just think it's impossible to get such a wide shot through such a small window if you stick the camera right onto the window to avoid reflection and get a focused picture then I dont see how you could take such a wide shot. Unless, of course...here we go again..it has all been staged, well prepared, camera ready with the right lense and setting. That would probably explain Ben's slip up about that day and the other days and th..the...yeah.

Also what bothers me in terms of distance/angles etc. is the paramedic sitting so near the doors. If you stick the camera onto the window they way it must have been done..then how do you get the paramedic where he is, nicely in the shot, if at the same time the focus is on MJ in the middle of the picture, and clearly this guy cant be sitting outside the ambulance which is exactly how it looks like. Something isnt right here.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chloead505 on February 28, 2011, 04:43:59 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

I think that after 20 months we all know the reasons and are very aware of it. I have been looking at parts of the picture I haven't noticed before and I think TS' point is that he wants us to take a closer look at details like that, to build actual proof that Mike is not dead, or at least that stuff like this is fake. This way it is easier to explain and show to non-believers. Now there are hundreds of theories on the board and we all have our own 'proofs' that stuff is fake, this could get us all on the same page. Facts instead of theories. Piece by piece.

I don't think that proving this picture fake (which we have known sort of since long ago and what has been openly mentioned in the media) and convincing a bunch of non-believers is the point here. There are better ways to prove MJ isnt dead.

So either there's a hidden agenda - that has nothing to do with the actual pic - or I am waiting for something to happen.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on February 28, 2011, 05:38:56 PM
I've been reading but haven't joined in this thread before as it very quickly became way too technical for me to follow! I haven't a clue what's possible with computer wizardry in the field of photo alterations etc, other than it appears anything is possible. I'm from the simpler era when 'the camera didn't lie'!

Looking at the wider aspect, with TS implying we should be building actual proof that MJ is NOT dead, it makes me wonder if maybe the lawyers in Murray's trial could do with doing similar: prosecution - prove he's actually DEAD before accusing Murray of anything, defence - prove he's NOT!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chloead505 on February 28, 2011, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: "curls"
I've been reading but haven't joined in this thread before as it very quickly became way too technical for me to follow! I haven't a clue what's possible with computer wizardry in the field of photo alterations etc, other than it appears anything is possible. I'm from the simpler era when 'the camera didn't lie'!

Looking at the wider aspect, with TS implying we should be building actual proof that MJ is NOT dead, it makes me wonder if maybe the lawyers in Murray's trial could do with doing similar: prosecution - prove he's actually DEAD before accusing Murray of anything, defence - prove he's NOT!

Proving a negative fact is almost impossible. There are easy ways to prove MJ is alive - e.g. the CCTV tapes that were supposed to be lost :-D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on February 28, 2011, 05:57:52 PM
chloead505, I agree there's no way all we see in the pic would be available in that small window and with the space in the vehicle. IMO to see what we see the camera would need a wide-angle lens, which would totally distort the edges all around.

Someone was saying MJ might be in the red car, directing by phone. But then there was the suggestion that he was behind the gates as the slightly bent over ponytailed figure in blue, directing there. [attachment=0:14npomdi]mj poss.jpg[/attachment:14npomdi]I think this is him. Sorry this is such a poor qualtity pic. But then there's also the guy sitting up on the gurney outside the hospital with guards shielding him with jackets. Some said he could actually have been in the ambulance sitting off to the side as a shadowy figure. There's the helicopter ride with the moving body bag, and MJ jumping out of the coroners van. Finally there's Jermaine's slip-up that he was leaving on the plane at LAX. Some of these I believe are bluffs meant to mislead and throw us off the track. Could many of those have fit in consecutively before jumping on the flight? I don't think Michael would want to miss being as directly hands-on involved as possible. He would only assign a double where absolutely necessary. This is HIS hoax. Personally I do not think MJ was in the red car but it could have been a decoy. So maybe blue ponytailer jumped in the ambulance for the trip to the hospital, sat up on the gurney, exited the hospital via secret tunnels, moved while wrapped in the white sheet, jumped out of the coroners van, to be taken to the airport. That was one busy day, and with thousands of paps and crazy fans everywhere.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on February 28, 2011, 06:02:24 PM
The EMT's bag is in front of the picture. I always learned at drawing lessons back in school, that something that is in front, is seen completely, blocking stuff behind it either partially or completely. Yet the black hooked thing/stripe (what the hell is it anyway) is not behind the bag, it overlaps it a little. Like bec pointed out that the leaves pattern is behind the arm and the sheet, because it was cut off by it, this one is not and actually overlapping an object that is supposed to be in front.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb04.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb05.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on February 28, 2011, 06:14:03 PM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

The truth usually lies hidden somewhere in the details.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: lilwendy on February 28, 2011, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

I think that after 20 months we all know the reasons and are very aware of it. I have been looking at parts of the picture I haven't noticed before and I think TS' point is that he wants us to take a closer look at details like that, to build actual proof that Mike is not dead, or at least that stuff like this is fake. This way it is easier to explain and show to non-believers. Now there are hundreds of theories on the board and we all have our own 'proofs' that stuff is fake, this could get us all on the same page. Facts instead of theories. Piece by piece.

Yes I agree.  I think this is a much needed skill that we will be utilizing beyond the hoax, beyond anything to do with MJ, and that we will be using to scrutinize what the media feeds us as reality.

Put on your student caps people and learn to find the truth within your world!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on February 28, 2011, 06:41:17 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "Elsa"
I'm sure I saw a video of the ambulance backing out that showed the red car wasn't in the right position to be reflected in Ben's photo.


OK, so back to the ambulance.  :mrgreen:
You are right - compared to the movies we were presented, we may doubt where and how the photos were composed.

We should consider a little bit more material.

Remember the EXIF data of one of the pictures showed 12:08 as creation hour.
That's 18 minutes before the ambulance allegedly arrived.

This is the video of the "proof picture" which is only proving the fact that several takes were executed but not the fact that Christopher Weiss shot that sequence of photos: he's in bright sunlight without any tree shadows as seen on the famous pictures:

[youtube:3sixzsrm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:3sixzsrm]

Evenstad is not saying the truth stating in the video he could see Michael's face through the window. He was not there in front of the side window - at least not in the material we saw. He was not even the one shooting the "proof" photo, since he was not down the street. He was also not at the window in the "proof" photo and also not in the Hollywood TV video. Ben was sitting in his car, the red Toyota Prius, while the ambulance backed out. You see this for a second (1:36) in the Hollywood TV video when the video filmer is running back to his car.
The "proof" photo is showing the yellow shirt guy taking the photo in the middle of the road (and not the red shirt guy from the video who stood in front of the yellow shirt guy there). The angle of the camera of the yellow shirt guy is even wrong. Impossible to shoot the picture like this. Only the red shirt guy could have shot it, but in the Hollywood TV movie, he's running away too fast and DOESN'T EVEN LOOK into the window but turns his head to the left.
This is the exact way how to NOT shoot a good sequence of pics.

It's getting better: in an interview, Weiss stated this:
Quote
Yeah, and did you notice his so called offhand comment…
“We couldn't see inside the ambulance,” Weiss continues “For all I knew when I was taking the pictures, Michael could have been sitting up on a gurney with oxygen on It's like he knew what was going on inside it…..
(credit to Morgana on MJHD.com, July 27, 2009)

In another video about the ambulance picture, Ben is telling more fairy tales.
Watch the seconds as of 1:14 - the video keeps hanging in on that blurry something and is showing the red car again (and the wall behind it - see the leaves even would have had to move 7 feet forwards to come close to the car front and become part of a mirroring thingie - photoshop... :mrgreen:)

[youtube:3sixzsrm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:3sixzsrm]

Why would a cristal clear video have to be hanging in on a blurry somethingie for seconds?


Now thanks to international interest, someone saved the TMZ video version for us:

http://www.wat.tv/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-1lnmx_2exyf_.html

The tourist bus is parking in parallel to the fire truck, not close to the pylones as in the Hollywood TV movie. Please watch for the shadows, they are much longer now than in the Hollywood TV movie, watch the crack in the middle of the road and compare both films.
In the Hollywood TV movie, there's no shadow at all in sight in the middle of the road, the garbage bins and the folks at the back door are in sunshine.
In the TMZ movie, the ambulance backs out into the shadow of the trees at the right side of the street.

Coming back to the role of the red car in the "reflection" of the tinted side window.
The red Toyota Prius (Ben Evenstad's car that he reportedly had lent for joyrides to Michael) was parked right in front of the gate when the ambulance backed out, when the water ran through the house some days later (see thread on TIAI Feb 14 redirect) and when the mourning fans gathered (see video TS_comments cited - at the last two occasions: parked at Monovale).
Seems that its owner still was around that address all the time - despite the fact that the owner allegedly had passed away and was - to be honest - not a hot selling target anymore.
I mean, NPG had shot "THE" photo and Ben still was not satisfied? (Or suspicious or what?)

It still gets weirder:
This is a tweet from e-online on June 26, 2009:
Michael Jackson Death-Site Scene: Weird http://tinyurl.com/p8ul4u (http://tinyurl.com/p8ul4u)
5:46 PM Jun 26th, 2009 via twitterfeed
http://twitter.com/eonline/status/2352632965

The link takes you to this site giving an impression of the situation on the street on June 26, 2009:
http://de.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b131487_michael_jackson_death-site_scene_weird.html
Interesting article btw.

What do we see on that photo?
The lined-up garbage bins - and a red Toyota Prius parked in a cop protected area. Huh?

What was it looking like on June 25, 2009 in the afternoon according to life.com:
http://www.life.com/image/88688298
No red Toyota Prius that day. Hidden behind the truck?

I think the car and its driver are much more interesting than the ambulance photo as such.
How come a red Toyota Prius was present in a closed area with cops presence the day after the alleged passing of Michael Jackson?

Btw, behind the Prius a dark SUV was parked (the type Michael used) and the license plate is also visible in the Hollywood TV movie.
Was the master watching and directing the takes from the outside?
Just asking.

Grace this is a great post.  I've realized why I'm so focussed on the red car - if its in the hoax photo then its not random.  It means something.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on February 28, 2011, 06:43:34 PM
:? (http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/comentarioshi5/gifs-animados/Personas/Ciegos/Ciego-01.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on February 28, 2011, 08:09:05 PM
Can someone please answer this;
Who do you think owns the red car and what model is it?
Is anyone renting Carolwood now? and
Has anyone seen a car parked in the garage at Carolwood, is it the owners car?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on February 28, 2011, 09:37:47 PM
So it's been determined that June 25, 2009 was 9282 days from January 27, 1984 which also happened to be 9282 days from August 29, 1958.  And someone had pointed out that 9+2+8+2 = 21 or 7+7+7.  Weird, right?  And on Jan 27/84 there was another ambulance/stretcher photo:

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-Zy6rCIh4ggvrJlRkwM9fqXjWJ1hwIKRIds4-o1nmCBh0ecDQ)

There were other photos that day but this one is in the ambulance (I think).

Here's the video that US weekly somehow got a hold of shortly after Michael's "death".  Michael being the one who had been in possession of the tape.  If you haven't seen in, don't watch it if you get upset easily.

[youtube:3lfjkqt0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqfJZGUNo5A[/youtube:3lfjkqt0]

Here's the ambulance photo clearly showing the "9"...think 999 being the inverse of 666, or turning the pyramid upside down.

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTVZ1QtSOWMaW1w2LdgWqq0CU-Db5Hl41ZeofME-AIv0FP-OPu)

And the pepsi fire...showing an upside-down pyramid over Michael's head!

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu_bZ-jL5E234VZs-qJ5SauuDU37misUPDWWjjCxvlZQwffAeR)

Michael surrounded:

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQi__ylPMT7KgWcE76PQAS3oQWBjY3RJncd_O_42aLcE45ubOAP)

And again:

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREGq3zzRRDgAWgongzPp1oG0Q8ttuTlooQ9FD9BAjBRnj6sg4x)

Just some strange parallels from Michael's "death" date and the exact "mid-point" of his life.  And I really think Michael has been planning the hoax since then.

I don't know, maybe this is one of the flimsy theories TS was talking about.  :?  :lol:

I hope it doesn't appear insensitive because that's not my intent and I know the pepsi fire has been discussed at length but I was just thinking about it and maybe it has something to do with the ambulance photo, or other events from June 25th.  Who knows, maybe it's just another coincidence that there was an ambulance photo taken on both of those days...

Just throwing that out there!

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjRYxoQjvF4KCZ5LfxNYnc8ZKlHjKLXWNOk4OK0nGgRU3TeSur)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on February 28, 2011, 10:24:02 PM
Quote
TS_comments wrote:
I’m going to make one more introductory comment here, before taking a deep dive into the evidences regarding the ambulance photo, and the hows of the hoax.  In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it.  

To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step. And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it. Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence.  This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are  :lol: ).  But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.

Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it). And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence.  Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth.  But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.
Yea I am crazy so it is ok.  ;) I wonder which False theory you lent support to and the mice followed the cheese, lol  8-) That includes the leaf theory.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)

http://www.photoshopessentials.com/phot ... ens-flare/ (http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-effects/lens-flare/)

(http://www.photoshopessentials.com/images/photo-effects/lens-flare/original-image.jpg)Original Image

(http://www.photoshopessentials.com/images/photo-effects/lens-flare/photoshop-lens-flare-effect.jpg)After Lens Flare is applied

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/4_proof_pic.jpg)
Where did this pic come from originally? This is a smoke screen pic. It is used to distract people from what may have really occured. This pic is an illusion to make you think that the yellow shirt guy took the pic.

I posted the original pic that Entertainment Tonight put online and it is a clear pic. That's the starting point. The other four pics posted above have been altered and effects were added to each pic in different degrees of alteration. Maybe those pics are not the original and they were taken at wider shots to be altered later. Another smoke screen. I tried to be the non-believer and post evidence that would be in favor of this being a real event. It seems I was on that boat alone. I read that most have still continued to try to find evidence to support the pic being fake and not the other way around.

My honest evaluation is that the original pic was done with the wax dummy and EMT's and it was staged (including faking a real intubation tube on the dummy) and it was taken before 6/25/2009. Then the scene is set to make it look as though the pic was taken on the day of death. Everything is an illusion.

[youtube:1e7y6jur]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZuggzMDV-g[/youtube:1e7y6jur]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: lilwendy on February 28, 2011, 11:10:20 PM
Uh is it just me or is the ambulance attendant to the left doing a real funky thing with his hand.  Maybe I'm just seeing wrong.
I thought I was seeing his pot belly facing towards the right of the picture which would have him facing toward the other attendent.  Yet his elbow is faced the same way.  :shock:  Look at the position of his hand on MJ and where his elbow is.  Either this guy is double jointed or what I think is his belly is a hump in his back or his butt?  :lol:

Just wondering if the leaf pattern was there just to draw our attention to the backwards arm?

*edit* now that I look at it I'm not sure... maybe he's sitting and hunched over which would make sense because the badge appears to be on the left arm on both of them... so never mind.  :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on February 28, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
Quote from: "lilwendy"
Uh is it just me or is the ambulance attendant to the left doing a real funky thing with his hand.  Maybe I'm just seeing wrong.
I thought I was seeing his pot belly facing towards the right of the picture which would have him facing toward the other attendent.  Yet his elbow is faced the same way.  :shock:  Look at the position of his hand on MJ and where his elbow is.  Either this guy is double jointed or what I think is his belly is a hump in his back or his butt?  :lol:

Just wondering if the leaf pattern was there just to draw our attention to the backwards arm?

*edit* now that I look at it I'm not sure... maybe he's sitting and hunched over which would make sense because the badge appears to be on the left arm on both of them... so never mind.  :)


I thought about that but I did try that position myself and it's probable. My assumption is that he's trying to reach for something else while compressing the chest. Of course...to make the scene more authentic.  :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 01, 2011, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"

...Where did this pic come from originally? This is a smoke screen pic. It is used to distract people from what may have really occured. This pic is an illusion to make you think that the yellow shirt guy took the pic.

I posted the original pic that Entertainment Tonight put online and it is a clear pic. That's the starting point. The other four pics posted above have been altered and effects were added to each pic in different degrees of alteration. Maybe those pics are not the original and they were taken at wider shots to be altered later. Another smoke screen. I tried to be the non-believer and post evidence that would be in favor of this being a real event. It seems I was on that boat alone. I read that most have still continued to try to find evidence to support the pic being fake and not the other way around.

My honest evaluation is that the original pic was done with the wax dummy and EMT's and it was staged (including faking a real intubation tube on the dummy) and it was taken before 6/25/2009. Then the scene is set to make it look as though the pic was taken on the day of death. Everything is an illusion.


I was just about to post something similar, but checked to see if anyone had said it first. You kinda sorta did.  8-) Yes the event of MJ's death and ambulance ride was staged, but I was going to suggest that MJ ALWAYS rehearses his short films, so why would he not rehearse this segment of his Greatest Show on Earth Movie? I believe there were two stagings. The event and the photograph itself.

We have all been going with the idea that someone hurriedly tried to capture the money shot from a vehicle in motion.

The BEST time to get the shot(s) MJ wanted, would be during the frame by frame, stop motion direction of the DRY RUN. Doing it this way, gives the DIRECTOR time 8-)  to TAKE the time to get everything in the shot he wants:

Every possible version of every possible purposeful reflection, can all be taken in the same light and this visionary would be able to know then, whether or not the only way to get something in THAT shot is to edit it in, later. Of course, "later" STILL being PRIOR to the event, in order to have it ready. 8-)

We saw one picture and a video ONLY all these months, until TS showed us four stills.  

I bet there were 100s  :o  of pictures taken, to be able to work with, just of the scene, not to mention miscellaneous leaf silhouettes to be added later!

Someone ;)  spent too much time on this photo (creating it). This is the reason WE need to to take the time to investigate it! It is not just a captured moment in time. There is some subtext there...

One other thing: even with tinted glass, all the ambulances I have seen have interior lighting, the likes of a carnival concession stand. It is stark bright white light; autopsy table light; "the better to see you with" kind of light ( ;) to quote a famous wolf, stalking a famous little girl in a red riding hood...).

No flash needed; through basic tinted glass, it would probably have been about as light as the picture we saw first. I always thought the photo was fake for this reason only---WAY too badly lighted to be a real "emergency in progress" vehicle. :roll:  
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 12:27:28 AM
I am reading everything and the more I read the less I know.
Someone I think had a point saying that we can't get such a wide image of the inside of the ambulance from so near. I don't know for sure, I think it depends of the type of camera.
For me the reflection of the red car is some sort of proof that there was an original picture taken.

If there was a dummy - that implies the paramedics are in the hoax and this can't be imo.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 01, 2011, 12:35:28 AM
Quote from: "curls"
it makes me wonder if maybe the lawyers in Murray's trial could do with doing similar: prosecution - prove he's actually DEAD before accusing Murray of anything, defence - prove he's NOT!
They are not going to discuss whether or not MJ is dead because the reason why they are meeting in court is the prerequisite assumption is that he is dead (X).

It's like a sentence thrown out into the air:
"This (X) happened and you, accused, have a share why it happened or have even been causing this with 100% responsibility."
They will be discussing if the contribution of the individual was sufficient to cause the consequence (X).

It is like
"The vase was found broken in the living room and somebody blamed YOU, accused, to have done this since you have been present in the room all the time."
It is not questioning whether the vase was broken at all or who else could have done it or whether the accuser was lying.
These questions would have had to be answered before calling the case to court.
As (X) is an accepted steady precondition factor, court discussions will not dance around (X) but around how (X) did happen.

The surprise would be that
- the picture of the broken vase was giving somebody else's vase,
- the picture was faked thus false evidence,
- the police sur scène was not properly investigating and documenting,
- the individual in the living room was not alone,
- it was the cat, an earthquake or the wind who broke the vase
- (X) did not happen, the vase was not broken (the vase might be reappearing in court to participate in a family photo with the stuffed toys and all friends - I hope for a HUGE party, Michael...).

In Michael's case I would assume the vase had an impersonator, collapsed either due to a supersoaker or cream cake fight, Bubbles was coming back, the Barnum circus was walking through his living room and one of the elephants happened to wag its tail or that the vase was in fact a white rabbit illusion in a smokescreen.  :lol:

I hope we will have a lot of fun once court time starts.
Hopefully we will all be able to watch the show live (or at least recorded) in the web.
And dont't forget to read through the trial documents beforehand to understand all the pricks and twists.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 01, 2011, 01:01:01 AM
Quote from: "Its her"
We saw one picture and a video ONLY all these months, until TS showed us four stills.

Nope, not true. All the variants were available in the web (since they were published by different tabloids) and even discussed in detail in several forums. Check out the archives. It's all there in depth and width.  ;)

We are just returning to the basic elements.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bleu eyes on March 01, 2011, 01:33:01 AM
Why is Michael on red stretcher, i think it's not common.
When a patient laying in a ambulance the're always on that white bed (underneath the red stretcher in the still photo).

I agree with some of you i think it was a setting picture, because the interior of the ambulance doesn;t match the ambulance interior of the video( interior of the 71 ambulance).
for excample: the paramedics seat is on the wrong side if you compare, and is'nt common for a paramedic to sit on the left side of the patient?
It's not possible to mirror the interior when you don't get the whole image( one side picture).

i think  the patient is always  laying in the ambulance with his head towards the driver the paramdics who is on front of the head of the patient is sitting with his back towards the driver.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 02:06:04 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

Yes, a bit more of the leaf pattern goes behind the paramedic’s arm in Ambulance2; but this is a very slight difference, compared to how far the red car has moved.  And if the leaf pattern is inside the ambulance (not a reflection): then this slight difference can easily occur from a slight movement in the paramedic’s arm, and/or a slightly different camera position.  But if the leaf pattern were part of the background image, then there is no explanation for why it does not move to the right just as much as the red car moves to the right.


I think it's quite clear the leaf pattern is not a reflection, but I'm not sure it is not part of the background because yes indeed it doesn't move that much to the right like the red car but this can be because the red car is outside the ambulance, in the front of it, but the leaf pattern is inside, in the back, in a closer plan.....it's really difficult to figure out how much an object is moving to the left or to the right in a moving car according to the distance  between that object and the point where the picture is taken from, I mean the camera.

I think the closer an object is to the camera the more it moves to the right than the objects that are far away :? I'm not sure of it, but in this case the leaf pattern, if it is part of the background, it's closer to the camera than the red car, so it should change its position more than the red car. Instead, it is changing its position less than the red car.

So maybe yes, the leaf pattern is not part of the backgound, but this means it was inserted in the original picture  :?  ?
Because if it is not a reflection and not in the background, what else can it be but photoshoped into the original pic?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 01, 2011, 03:08:26 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
If there was a dummy - that implies the paramedics are in the hoax and this can't be imo.

To challenge your statement, then you must accept that the 911 call was real. Real Emts come from real 911 calls.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 03:58:42 AM
So you're saying the 911 wasn't real and those men in the pic are actors? That means the ambulance is also fake? Or the ambulance is real and it was rented by MJ team for his fake death movie?

Sorry but I really don't know what to think.

But at least the red car was there and was real right?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Adi on March 01, 2011, 04:54:36 AM
All I can say is ...I've been reading this entire thread the past few days and feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. I don't use Photoshop so I have no idea what is possible with that software. I am not a professional photographer so have no idea what is possible with tinted windows, angles, flashes, lenses, depth of field etc etc...all I know is that I see weird f'n shite in this ambo photo....faces, letters, images of god knows what......always have always will.....

Having had my above rant :lol: ........perhaps it was photographed way way earlier than 25/06/2009 ...many times over to get it correct ....then images layered/photoshopped (or whatever) into it to "create" what the media was fed and what was blared all over the world. Maybe the pics of what is shown on 25/06/2009 outside Carolwood with the red shirt guy/yellow shirt guy/red car etc etc was all just a set up to make it look like this "dying" pic of Mj was taken on that day.

Why do I feel like I'm back in 2009...about August sometime?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 04:59:29 AM
Looking at the Ambulance1 again......if the photo was taken from so close to the window, how could it capture such a clear reflection of the red car, the wall, the ground, the trees  :?
Because I think the closer  the camera gets to the window the less reflection of the outside it catches.

It's like when you look at an window ....when you are not very close you see reflection but when you come near it you see inside and less to none reflections   :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 01, 2011, 06:33:17 AM
Quote from: "Adi"
All I can say is ...I've been reading this entire thread the past few days and feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. I don't use Photoshop so I have no idea what is possible with that software. I am not a professional photographer so have no idea what is possible with tinted windows, angles, flashes, lenses, depth of field etc etc...all I know is that I see weird f'n shite in this ambo photo....faces, letters, images of god knows what......always have always will.....

Having had my above rant :lol: ........perhaps it was photographed way way earlier than 25/06/2009 ...many times over to get it correct ....then images layered/photoshopped (or whatever) into it to "create" what the media was fed and what was blared all over the world. Maybe the pics of what is shown on 25/06/2009 outside Carolwood with the red shirt guy/yellow shirt guy/red car etc etc was all just a set up to make it look like this "dying" pic of Mj was taken on that day.

Why do I feel like I'm back in 2009...about August sometime?

Well, good- at least I am not alone! :) Someone call me when you need a mental health specialist (that sounded wrong- I meant for THIS case...).
I guess I am so used to ask the "so what" question at some point with my clients, so it keeps popping into my head here as well.  
I don’t know many non-believers who at this point think the ambulance picture was “real.”  They just don’t connect it to the hoax.  They connect it to a murder conspiracy.  So, proving the picture is fake and how it is fake might shed some light on supporting the hoax.  Just saying, parts were photoshopped in, will not do that.  This better be some solid evidence, as otherwise the argument “well- maybe they thought they could use crazy believers like you to muddy the water and let the murderers get away”- argument will fly again.
To me, what stands out in this tread is not so much any of the leaves (I feel we are all focusing on the photoshop while something else important is going on we are being distracted from- I just can’t put my finger on it)- but the red car.  
IDK- on this one, I think I will just sit back and let the experts (you guys who flip, turn, analyze, enlarge, etc) do your thing- I really admire your for having the technical know-how and the time.  
Thanks to TS for popping in to clarify things (or are you, muddying the water, you prankster?- HA! I guess that part is for us to figure out, hum?)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 01, 2011, 06:44:33 AM
Could it be a relection from MJ's black jacket with the sparlkling sequence ???? Was he in the ambulance wearing the famous "Black announcement jacket" which because of the sun, it made a silouette in the ambulance ???????
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 01, 2011, 07:03:38 AM
Interesting posts - what I'd like to know is when exactly was the original photo first released? From what I can find it was on 25th, but I'd like to find out what time. How long between the supposed taking of the photo to it being shown to the world? Can anyone help me with this?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 01, 2011, 07:15:16 AM
this thing reminds me of the good old bad old days when the film didn't advance fast enough or whatever and you had a bunch of garbage double exposures or whatever they were called. :|
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 01, 2011, 08:14:43 AM
I have the impression that we go without a response on this whole mess of photos.
TS, do not be evil. :twisted:  Is not it time to give us some answers?
If you resumed this discussion, it is important for some purpose. I do not think it's just for fun!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 01, 2011, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Why is Michael on red stretcher, i think it's not common.
When a patient laying in a ambulance the're always on that white bed (underneath the red stretcher in the still photo).

I agree with some of you i think it was a setting picture, because the interior of the ambulance doesn;t match the ambulance interior of the video( interior of the 71 ambulance).
for excample: the paramedics seat is on the wrong side if you compare, and is'nt common for a paramedic to sit on the left side of the patient?
It's not possible to mirror the interior when you don't get the whole image( one side picture).

i think  the patient is always  laying in the ambulance with his head towards the driver the paramdics who is on front of the head of the patient is sitting with his back towards the driver.
The red is actually orange, and it's a backboard. And the paramedic is seated appropriately. There's nothing odd about where the paramedics are sitting.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: gwynned on March 01, 2011, 09:43:34 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Interesting posts - what I'd like to know is when exactly was the original photo first released? From what I can find it was on 25th, but I'd like to find out what time. How long between the supposed taking of the photo to it being shown to the world? Can anyone help me with this?

That's an interesting question.  If it WAS released on the 25th, and it was proven to be photoshopped, it would lead one to conclude that either MJ was murdered and the perpetrators had this photo in advance (making Ben Eversted an accomplice!) or that he faked his death (in which case Ben Eversted is still an accomplice).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 01, 2011, 10:18:00 AM
Quote from: "gwynned"
Quote from: "curls"
Interesting posts - what I'd like to know is when exactly was the original photo first released? From what I can find it was on 25th, but I'd like to find out what time. How long between the supposed taking of the photo to it being shown to the world? Can anyone help me with this?

That's an interesting question.  If it WAS released on the 25th, and it was proven to be photoshopped, it would lead one to conclude that either MJ was murdered and the perpetrators had this photo in advance (making Ben Eversted an accomplice!) or that he faked his death (in which case Ben Eversted is still an accomplice).

My thinking behind asking this question is:

Was the original photo taken as the ambulance left the property at around 1.00pm (? exact time)?
Was that photo then altered/layered/photoshopped/whatever before selling it to ET?
If it was altered, why?
Was there physically the time available to do this before it's 'reveal' to the public? (This is why I need to find out the time it was first published)
 
If (as has been discussed here), the original photo, whether doctored later or not, could not have been taken as the ambulance left the property on 25th, it was either taken before that date (on the other d..... - with all the implications of that) or indeed 'constructed' somehow after the event, after the death announcement, in order to have the big scoop. Either way, Ben Eversted knows a lot more than he's letting on.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 01, 2011, 10:55:33 AM
I think I just found the answer for someone who was asking why the RIP KING was backwards. If you see in Ben's interview on the side he has a glass window like around his cubicle and at the back of him is also a glass window, so he stuck it inside his office cubicle so you can see it from the outside.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 01, 2011, 11:11:18 AM
Random comment, but the 9 in the pic was pointed out. There is also a 7.

The 9 is made by surgical tape or equivalent thing on the MJs upper chest.

The 7 is made by the clamp on the IV tube.

9+7=16 which also =7
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 01, 2011, 11:41:14 AM
I was scanning the thread and when looking at the pic, I got to see something.

The red car is being reflected. Still, I don´t buy that reflection. However, I got to see a weird image, like If MJ would be entering the red car (could this be because I am slowing my caffeine consumption..?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: taty_2crazy on March 01, 2011, 11:48:36 AM
I think what TS want to show us is that we have to take more attention to small extended details that often go unnoticed and that they make the difference ! :idea:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 01, 2011, 11:56:53 AM
I looked again at my own pic  :lol:  well, no way that is MJ entering the red car. Why would he look like a guy with a white mask and a blanket over his head?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: longlivetheking on March 01, 2011, 12:12:53 PM
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/longlivetheking77/YouTube-EXCLUSIVEMichaelJacksonDeadandRushedToHospitalredcar.jpg)

Here is a screen shot (rotated clockwise 1 time) of the red car from the Hollywood TV video - someone is in the red car, but "WHO IS IT?"

Notice the driver has their seat belt on...  is someone in the passenger seat?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 01, 2011, 12:14:42 PM
Was Dr. Murray supposed to be in this ambulance also? Hardly seems room for him in there.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 01, 2011, 12:20:19 PM
Quote from: "longlivetheking"
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/longlivetheking77/YouTube-EXCLUSIVEMichaelJacksonDeadandRushedToHospitalredcar.jpg)

Here is a screen shot (rotated clockwise 1 time) of the red car from the Hollywood TV video - someone is in the red car, but "WHO IS IT?"

Notice the driver has their seat belt on...  is someone in the passenger seat?

That's Ben. Compare him to the videos. Same head shape.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 12:35:33 PM
Looks like a girl...does it matter?!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 01, 2011, 12:35:57 PM
Can Ben be in the car and out the car at he same time taking pics?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 12:37:09 PM
I don't see Ben in the car....where is he?!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 01, 2011, 12:46:36 PM
!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah !!!!! this is a virtual shout (I can not cry now because I'm at work)
 Gema, Grace I see nothing :roll:  ... I'll go crazy(http://www.hispanosnet.com/emoticones-gratis-msn/locos/SillyFace.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 01, 2011, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "Its her"
We saw one picture and a video ONLY all these months, until TS showed us four stills.

Nope, not true. All the variants were available in the web (since they were published by different tabloids) and even discussed in detail in several forums. Check out the archives. It's all there in depth and width.  ;)

We are just returning to the basic elements.

Oops,  :P I stand corrected. Thank you. I should have said I only saw one...

At the time, doing official research for my job fifty hours a week, I decided early on in 2009, to streamline my surfing and confine myself to ONE place---this one, and the less taxing  :) elements of the Hoax investigation, here. I have been on others for about a half minute, each, and it was just too much for me. :?  :?  :roll: I will check out the archives, now that it is,  ;)  "all there in depth and width".  :D  Thank you!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 01, 2011, 01:00:28 PM
Please, can anyone help me out here? I've spent ages trying to find out what time ET first posted the ambulance pic amd can't get any further than that it was on 25th June. I really want to know how soon after his death they published it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 01, 2011, 01:24:06 PM
Quote from: "curls"
Please, can anyone help me out here? I've spent ages trying to find out what time ET first posted the ambulance pic amd can't get any further than that it was on 25th June. I really want to know how soon after his death they published it.

It was 3 days later, June 28. http://www.etonline.com/news/75724_Mich ... index.html (http://www.etonline.com/news/75724_Michael_Jackson_Exclusive_Last_Photo/index.html)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 01, 2011, 01:32:24 PM
I saw the ambulance pic on yahoo the same morning MJ passed.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 01, 2011, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: "gwynned"
That's an interesting question.  If it WAS released on the 25th, and it was proven to be photoshopped, it would lead one to conclude that either MJ was murdered and the perpetrators had this photo in advance (making Ben Eversted an accomplice!) or that he faked his death (in which case Ben Eversted is still an accomplice).

Indicator for the publishing time could be early tweets about the photo.
Here are some (Guiliana Rancic is a host on E! News):
Quote
Gd nght! Hope u have a wonderful week. Instead of focusing on what u don't have, focus on what u DO have & be grateful...more will come:)
8:00 AM Jun 22nd, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/GiulianaRancic/status/2275487798

Answer:
Quote
@GiulianaRancic please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
2:30 AM Jun 26th, 2009 via UberTwitter in reply to GiulianaRancic
http://twitter.com/EricaMM/status/2336027430

Answer:
Quote
No, we won't. RT @EricaMM Please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
6:03 PM Jun 25th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/GiulianaRancic/status/2336514167

Giuliana Rancic gives her location on twitter in Los Angeles.
EricaMM gives her latitude / longitude on twitter and that is pointing towards California as well.

You will notice some time discrepencies between the tweets.
I am currently having no explanation for that except that
a) twitter's crash due to MJ had some severe data base consequences
b) EricaMM was NOT in California.

A time zone converting indicates that EricaMM was in Western Europe.
Translating Guiliana's tweet time into European time would give 3:00 a.m. in the morning of June 26, 2009. Since Erica tweeted from her phone (ubertwitter is a mobile phone application for twitter), that makes sense.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?day=25&month=6&year=2009&hour=18&min=5&sec=0&p1=137&p2=195

So the picture on ET Online had been seen by somebody on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m.

That was the original link to the photo (page removed meanwhile):
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75724/index.html

Quote
The photo of Jackson is the last image published before his untimely death, Thursday, June 25,2009. The photo shows Jackson in an ambulance being worked on by paramedics who were attempting to revive the King of Pop.

Jackson was pronounced dead at 2:26 p.m. at the UCLA Medical Center.
http://www.suite101.com/content/controversial-king-of-pop-photo-published-online-a127821
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 01, 2011, 01:41:50 PM
Quote
Gema wrote: I saw the ambulance pic on yahoo the same morning MJ passed

Seriously? And that time was in the United States :?:  :shock:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bleu eyes on March 01, 2011, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Why is Michael on red stretcher, i think it's not common.
When a patient laying in a ambulance the're always on that white bed (underneath the red stretcher in the still photo).

I agree with some of you i think it was a setting picture, because the interior of the ambulance doesn;t match the ambulance interior of the video( interior of the 71 ambulance).
for excample: the paramedics seat is on the wrong side if you compare, and is'nt common for a paramedic to sit on the left side of the patient?
It's not possible to mirror the interior when you don't get the whole image( one side picture).

i think  the patient is always  laying in the ambulance with his head towards the driver the paramdics who is on front of the head of the patient is sitting with his back towards the driver.
The red is actually orange, and it's a backboard. And the paramedic is seated appropriately. There's nothing odd about where the paramedics are sitting.

Yes i found out  later on today that ist's a backboard it's for protect the patients back and neck it's a hard surface.?
But what i mean by the paramedics seat it looks well at the pic with Michael but doesn't fit the video interior of the ambulance 71, because then the seat of the second paramedic. would be on the left side of Michael, in my opinion correct if i'm wrong please. i  hope you understand my point because englisch is not my native language as you have problably discoverd by now :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 01, 2011, 01:44:43 PM
That doesn't look like Ben to me, the chin and eyebrows aren't right, plus there might be long hair, looks like a woman. Yet on the interview Ben says, "I was the first car following the ambulance." I'm assuming the red Prius was his. At the same time the red shirt pap's face is definately not Ben either. The yellow shirt pap we don't see his face.

Quote
lilwendy
*edit* now that I look at it I'm not sure... maybe he's sitting and hunched over which would make sense because the badge appears to be on the left arm on both of them... so never mind.

I'm thinking it's weird that we only see 2 left arms, almost like they were deliberately trying to remove their rights out of sight.

Quote
Grace » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:35 am
curls wrote:it makes me wonder if maybe the lawyers in Murray's trial could do with doing similar: prosecution - prove he's actually DEAD before accusing Murray of anything, defence - prove he's NOT!
They are not going to discuss whether or not MJ is dead because the reason why they are meeting in court is the prerequisite assumption is that he is dead (X).
People in every field of expertise rely on other esteemed experts to establish their pre-suppositions so they can build their own reasonings and beliefs. If those underpinnings are mistaken or lies, then the added reasonings will be false also. This happens in religious, historical, political and other fields of study. If there's a question of MJ being alive or dead, how can the courts decide on if a murder took place. Why do I get the feeling the lawyers and judge involved already know he's alive. They can't be so daft that they would buy all the ridiculous inconsistancies. I think MJ has more professionals and actors helping in this hoax than most realize.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 01, 2011, 01:51:50 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "curls"
Please, can anyone help me out here? I've spent ages trying to find out what time ET first posted the ambulance pic amd can't get any further than that it was on 25th June. I really want to know how soon after his death they published it.

It was 3 days later, June 28. http://www.etonline.com/news/75724_Mich ... index.html (http://www.etonline.com/news/75724_Michael_Jackson_Exclusive_Last_Photo/index.html)

Really? I'm not sure you're right about that but all the links I can find are dead ends I suppose because the news is so 'old' now. There are pics on Youtube that appear to have been put up on 25th and many links that on the Google page look like they're dated 25th, but then aren't dated when you get to the page.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 01, 2011, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?

I think that after 20 months we all know the reasons and are very aware of it. I have been looking at parts of the picture I haven't noticed before and I think TS' point is that he wants us to take a closer look at details like that, to build actual proof that Mike is not dead, or at least that stuff like this is fake. This way it is easier to explain and show to non-believers. Now there are hundreds of theories on the board and we all have our own 'proofs' that stuff is fake, this could get us all on the same page. Facts instead of theories. Piece by piece.
Non believers don't even talk to us !: will they listen? How this can be easier to explain:with just one photo?....Plus people always ask "why" not "how" :( I am sorry if i go off topic and interfere ...but this post got me confuse...and i'm too tired to over analyze pics...my imagination is too blur  :(
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 01, 2011, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
Gema wrote: I saw the ambulance pic on yahoo the same morning MJ passed

Seriously? And that time was in the United States :?:  :shock:

Yes, time differences certainly don't help do they?!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on March 01, 2011, 02:21:36 PM
It's just not possible to make a picture like that.
Try it... ;)
If the picture is real it can only have been made inside the ambulance, and for that you need a special camera.
So the guy who took the picture must be speedy gonzales, first getting the speciaal camera, getting in the ambulance, jumping out of the ambulance.
[youtube:37te7hig]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM-FYm8jwlQ&feature=related[/youtube:37te7hig]
Or a ghost.....
Chappie
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steph on March 01, 2011, 02:23:31 PM
The red car was at the funeral as well ,so was ben at the funeral doing the filming? you don`t see him on any of the funeral clips.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 01, 2011, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: "Grace"

So the picture on ET Online had been seen by somebody on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m.

That was the original link to the photo (page removed meanwhile):
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75724/index.html

Quote
The photo of Jackson is the last image published before his untimely death, Thursday, June 25,2009. The photo shows Jackson in an ambulance being worked on by paramedics who were attempting to revive the King of Pop.

Jackson was pronounced dead at 2:26 p.m. at the UCLA Medical Center.
http://www.suite101.com/content/controversial-king-of-pop-photo-published-online-a127821

Thanks Grace - just what I wanted!

So, my next question, is Ben's version realistic? How they took the pics, sat on them thinking they were just some more 'MJ going to the hospital' pics, found out (from TMZ) that he'd died (2.26pm), picked the 'best' one, contacted ETOnline, agreed and carried out the sale of the pic, and ET published (before 6.00pm). Not personally knowing the workings of the press, but knowing how eager they are to get in first with the big scoops I would assume this is possible in this time frame. So I think I'm clear in my own mind that the generally told story holds good.

Then there's all the other questions ..... !!! My head hurts, so I'm not going to go into them right now!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 01, 2011, 03:12:31 PM
[youtube:18g4kylm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:18g4kylm]

I am posting this video to show the ambulance window size. This video also shows a guy in a tan shirt filming, who is that? This also shows where the red shirt guy was standing when the ambulance was backing out. The body guards do not seem to panicked.  :?  The mark for the window is 1:29-1:33

I realize that every one of us will see things differently and have a different approach when trying to figure out this grand illusion. We will focus on different parts of this famous ambulance pic, lol

Most of us acknowledge it is fake. Some of us agree it was staged before 6/25/2009 and then on the day of death the scene was set to make it look as though the pic was captured that day. I think the red car, the inside of the ambulance, the yellow shirt guy, the red shirt guy, where the wall is, where the leaves are, etc. doesn't matter at this point. That is just a distraction and I believe it is leading us no where. This is not solid evidence...

We are going around in circles focusing on logistics of where the red car was parked and if it would be possible to capture it in a reflection of the ambulance window. Does what I am getting at so far make sense?

The pic can be explained by a non-believer as being real. I think if we want to prove to the non-believers this pic is staged and fake we need better evidence or better arguements. I think this is going to come down to common sense and beyond a reasonable doubt type situation.

Each one of us will have a different opinion on how this was done but, I think some are still focusing on the bait and switch (red car, yellow or red shirt guys) to the point of confusion. I think we should come to a conclusion on this pic and move forward.

We could spend the next month on this topic alone. I think we should start to just sum it up by asking questions and then answer them.

Is that ok?

My opinion is this pic was set up and staged prior to 6/25/2009. I believe it was a wax dummy with a real intubation tube and 2 EMT's being photographed as a starting point to do the next step which would be to release it to a Tabloid T.V. show through a photog because then it makes the death more believeable by the public and the Tabloid show.

There is a reason a Tabloid show was chosen, no one working there would question the pic because it is sensationalism according to the Tabloid show. The pic wouldn't be scrutinized as much. Now if it was given to one of the other news programs like CNN, CBS, ABC maybe they would catch on quicker. Yea I am giving them some credit, lol

Q-The pic we have been shown was not shot on the day of death, agree?

Q-The scene was staged on the day of death to make it look as though it was shot on that day, agree?

IMO-There really was a 911 call made, there really was an ambulance that responded that day, there really was a patient that day but, it wasn't Michael or the wax dummy.

I think we need to seperate those two things. The pic is one thing and the footage of the day is another thing. Those two are not connected to each other by the same day.

I am passing the torch to who ever wants to continue this conclusion, or not.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on March 01, 2011, 03:25:46 PM
TS  :D  don't you see a need for help here?  :cry:

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 01, 2011, 03:26:13 PM
There were several 911 calls.
If I recall right, we found one being published by CNN with a lady's voice that was cut out in another version. Should be somewhere in the archive. I think we discussed 4 different versions of the call at the time. In one the voice of the caller was louder than the dispatcher. In one somebody said something like "just 1 minute" like in a take.
Anybody else remembers?
Everything was doubled or multiplied. A fake of a fake of a fake.  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 01, 2011, 03:49:33 PM
Then next we need to show evidence that would prove it's an MJ's Alive hoax, not cover-up for murder hoax. So far like some have said both MJ camps agree it's a created photo. Can anyone think of anything?

Like someone also said if Ben photoshopped the pic and sold it as genuine he's liable, and if he's proven to be part of a coverup, he could be an accomplice to murder, either way in trouble. Like a game of chess.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 01, 2011, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Why is Michael on red stretcher, i think it's not common.
When a patient laying in a ambulance the're always on that white bed (underneath the red stretcher in the still photo).

I agree with some of you i think it was a setting picture, because the interior of the ambulance doesn;t match the ambulance interior of the video( interior of the 71 ambulance).
for excample: the paramedics seat is on the wrong side if you compare, and is'nt common for a paramedic to sit on the left side of the patient?
It's not possible to mirror the interior when you don't get the whole image( one side picture).

i think  the patient is always  laying in the ambulance with his head towards the driver the paramdics who is on front of the head of the patient is sitting with his back towards the driver.
The red is actually orange, and it's a backboard. And the paramedic is seated appropriately. There's nothing odd about where the paramedics are sitting.

Yes i found out  later on today that ist's a backboard it's for protect the patients back and neck it's a hard surface.?
But what i mean by the paramedics seat it looks well at the pic with Michael but doesn't fit the video interior of the ambulance 71, because then the seat of the second paramedic. would be on the left side of Michael, in my opinion correct if i'm wrong please. i  hope you understand my point because englisch is not my native language as you have problably discoverd by now :)
It is a hard surface. It's used for moving patients, providing immobilization, and providing a hard surface for compressions (usually not all three of those things at once, but one or two).
For the seats, it does all fit. There's a CPR seat (it has other names) on the right side of the patient, a bench seat on the left side of the patient, and an airway seat at the head of the patient.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 01, 2011, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Then next we need to show evidence that would prove it's an MJ's Alive hoax, not cover-up for murder hoax. So far like some have said both MJ camps agree it's a created photo. Can anyone think of anything?

Like someone also said if Ben photoshopped the pic and sold it as genuine he's liable, and if he's proven to be part of a coverup, he could be an accomplice to murder, either way in trouble. Like a game of chess.
Why would Ben be in trouble for selling a Entertainment pic? Key word Entertainment; where anything goes in Hollywood. This is also considered an Improve Performance. We are also considered Improve actors/actresses by being on this forum we add to the story.

According to the interview Ben gave he didn't say how much he was paid. He may have been paid well by Entertainment Tonight or he may have been paid by someone else. He stamers alot when he speaks about that day and he doesn't look the interviewer in the eye.  ;) Signs of deception. I wasn't there on the day Ben supposedly "sold" this pic so I just have to take his word for it, right? lol

As for Ben selling a fake pic and the Tabloid show bought it hook, line and sinker...

The media lies to us every day, this time around Michael was the one to tell the story his way  before they did.  8-)


Quote
R12. Performance Art
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art)

This was another Wikipedia page; and in fact it is a direct link from the statement quoted above, found on the “Faked Death” page. Obviously, then, the MJ death hoax can be considered as performance art—and therefore it can certainly qualify as one form of non-violent artistic resistance (AIR).

Here is an interesting statement from the performance art Wikipedia page: “The performance may be scripted, unscripted, or improvisational. It may incorporate music, dance, song, or complete silence.” Ever since the June 25 hoaxed death, MJ himself has been completely silent; and yet his silence has already spoken louder than before his “death”! Performance “art is resistance”; MJ “has a voice”, and he can “speak the truth”—even through his silence.

[youtube:25lyradf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:25lyradf]

[youtube:25lyradf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:25lyradf]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 01, 2011, 06:01:17 PM
At this stage, i think that i am not able to demonstrate that this photo is false :roll:
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRltYuc_yzR8IU6bfE39EflRmYkF8RkebuOpnaBFwMbJv9cPqpZ)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: hesouttamylife on March 01, 2011, 06:24:11 PM
My proof that it is a fake picture comes not from the actual picture but from the description given by the EMTs who suposedly first arrived on the scene and could not recognize the patient as MJ.  Certainly the picture of the person on the stretcher that was supposed to be THE LAST PHOTO OF MJ BEFORE DEATH, is clearly recognizable.  Then to add insult insult to injury the hospital staff also described the arriving patient as an old man.  The person in the ambulance picture who supposedly arrived at the hospital on 6/25/2009 certainly does not fit that description.  Actually, that person on the picture in the ambulance :lol:  looks like a younger MJ.  SOMEBODY IS LYING.  BADLY.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on March 01, 2011, 07:23:53 PM
All this over-analysis is making my head spin but I commend everyone for doing such a great job!  I have read everyone's replies and you guys are amazing.

For me, the ambulance photo parallels Michael's "death" itself - real but fake.  Meaning real on the surface, we "see" the image and many accepted it as genuine.  But fake because the "MJ" is most likely a dummy and/or the photo was manipulated in someway, whether photoshop or not (I really don't know anything about photoshop so I'm certainly not an expert at recognizing what's photoshopped or not).  Like the death, if you take a moment to look beyond what you see, there's so much more to find.

I don't know if the photo was actually taken from outside the ambulance or not.  It's possible it was taken before hand and then the actors took their place outside of the ambulance to make it look like that's when it was taken.  It's like continuity in movies - there are people whose job is to make sure everything matches up perfectly so the movie flows properly, like it's occurring from start to finish, instead of random scenes filmed out of sequence.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 01, 2011, 11:38:58 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Then next we need to show evidence that would prove it's an MJ's Alive hoax, not cover-up for murder hoax. So far like some have said both MJ camps agree it's a created photo. Can anyone think of anything?


Um...yes, I have something. It's a bit Hitchcockian...but, uh, NOT beyond the genius and "punkmanship" of Michael Jackson, to do this in a most unique way---with a twist. ;)  :D  Are you thinkin' what I'm thinkin'   :)   :?:

All  :idea: we have to prove, is that MJ did some kind of a "walk on" IN that video. Point out LIVE MJ in any shot and let the naysayers prove it's NOT him. :o  8-)

He can even be in disguise---actually, that is better---more beLIEvable---because we KNOW he does this and have documented certain disguises he has already used for this hoax. 8-)

Can anyone say: "Ambulance driver"? :P  :P What about "tour bus passenger" ? or, plain ole reflection --not in the original photo, but in the clearcoat of the red car?????? :lol:

Hey----don't shoot me down, unless we already DID check this, and I skipped that day. :roll:  :?  
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 01, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
As the red car image gets darker and more prominent, so does the leaf/face pattern.

The leaf/face pattern is seen more clearly when it is "in" the shadow of the paramedic's arm. This is not possible in reality. Shadow blocks light and so therefore prevents the eye (or camera lens) from making out detail.

In this case, the shadow (eliminating light) makes the pattern easier to see.

The pattern is darker then the background, eliminating the possibility that the pattern was created with glow-in-the-dark or luminescent material, would cause the pattern to stand out in shadow.

In a previous post I showed how the image appears to disappear behind the arm and the white cloth that appear in the foreground. I conceded at that time that this would be possible to alter during the edit process. I will also add that it is also possible, if using just the right level of opacity, the image simply wouldn't show up on the arm in such very tiny detail. It is also possible that this was a complete coincidence, and the image did indeed end at that point (this is especially true of the white cloth, less so in regards to the arm).

I have also found a different ambulance pic version since I made that post where the leaf/face image appears to go over the arm. I'll post it as soon as I can.

Conclusion, when comparing the different versions of the ambulance pic, the leaf/face image gets darker and more pronounced and shows up better at the same rate as the red car. As the red car gets darker in each version, so does the leaf/face. The pic where the leaf/face shows up the least is also the pic where the car "reflection" is lightest.

Based on this information alone, I have to conclude that the leaf/face pattern was added in an opaque image layer that also included the red car, and this opaque image was likely layered over the pic of the "scene".

As to why bother altering? Perhaps this pic really does hold all the answers.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 01, 2011, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
My proof that it is a fake picture comes not from the actual picture but from the description given by the EMTs who suposedly first arrived on the scene and could not recognize the patient as MJ.  Certainly the picture of the person on the stretcher that was supposed to be THE LAST PHOTO OF MJ BEFORE DEATH, is clearly recognizable.  

Right
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 01, 2011, 11:56:51 PM
Here it is, in this version, the leaf/face image appears to overlap the paramedics arm:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulancefull.jpg)

Cropped:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulanceimageoverarm.jpg)

and zoomed:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulanceimageoverarmzoom.jpg)

The lowest part of the image visible overlaps the paramedic's lower forearm.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 02, 2011, 12:20:12 AM
Before moving on with the investigation of the ambulance photo, and other aspects, I want to mention once more the purpose for this thread--since it has only been a few days, and several are questioning it already.

As I said before, your METHOD or APPROACH to investigation is far more important than the ambulance photo or other parts of the hoax.  Not merely for investigating this hoax, but for your own good in your entire life, these are extremely valuable skills--and this forum and thread give you an opportunity to learn and practice these skills in an environment that is friendly (or at least should be, and usually is).  Part of the good investigation skills here, is learning how to critically examine things from the OPPOSITE perspective than your own belief (which in this case is the hoax).  We have a term for people who are unwilling to look at or even consider things from somebody else's perspective, and that term is "prejudice"--and you already know what MJ thinks about prejudice.

For the most part, people have been doing excellent research and have a lot of good questions and/or answers.  Some of the very things that I am planning to bring out, have already being discovered and brought out by others--which is great.  For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder.  I will explain why soon.

But even though most comments have been good or excellent, there have been a few complaints recently about this thread.  We still have several weeks before the trial, and we're just getting good started on this phase of investigation; if it is too much for you, then please either skip the thread, or else read only and don't comment.  I don't mean to exclude anyone who has genuine input on what is being discussed; but please keep your discussion to evidence for or against the topic at hand, and not complaints about the topic itself or the purpose for it, etc.  Again, if for any reason this thread is not helping you personally, then just skip it.  But please don't interfere with those who are taking it seriously, and who are getting enjoyment from it and/or are practicing good investigation skills.

Last of all, I am the one who started this thread: maybe I should give a little more of an overview, so people will have a little better idea of the bigger picture that we are working on piecing together here.  The ambulance picture is a major key to unlocking the entire hoax--how and who, etc.  It's not only important to understand IF the photo is fake, but HOW it was faked.  Once we understand how (staged in the same amublance, but another day; or staged in another ambulance on another day; or not staged at all, but Photoshop fabricated; or not fake at all, but 100% real; etc)--then the rest of the events should fall into place relatively easily.

For example if the paramedics were involved with staging the photo before 6-25-2009, then they were most likely also in on the hoax itself.  But if the ambulance photo was 100% real, or perhaps real but slightly edited in Photoshop, then maybe the paramedics are not in on the hoax at all.  Once we understand whether or not the paramedics are in on the hoax, then many of the other pieces should fall into place--such as who or what was in the ambulance on 6-25-2009 (MJ, or dummy, or nothing, etc).  There is also the question of whether the entire court and courtroom is staged, with the judge and jury and lawyers all being confidential agreement actors--or is there perhaps just a few key people who know what's really going on.

If the answer to these questions doesn't interest you, that's your perfect right; but kindly allow those of us who are interested to continue our investigation.

Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 02, 2011, 01:03:16 AM
I'm in. I'm going with Im_convinced's explanation. Each stage was separate (pic/ambulance outside gates) and thanks to clever editing and some movie making magic, The Ambulance at Carrolwood comes together as a seamless event on 6/25/09.

The pic is of a real scene, with a dummy and two actors, in a real ambulance, taken through the side window, but the window was out/open/removed to allow for this angle/view. The "reflections" were added later... possibly from the actual day/scene on 6/25/09. The pic(s) taken that day were only reflections and they were used to layer onto the staged photo for realism.

The face/leaf image was added to the opaque reflection image and that altered pic was layered onto the staged photo original to create the finished ambulance pic(s) that we know.

The purpose of all this trouble is for realism... (those photog's on 6/25/09 really were trying to get the shot, and the image matched the scene) as well as theatrics, and to ensure the "final pic" of MJ was clearly recognizable (money shot) and also for control-- MJ could control what was in the pic and what exactly it showed us (and didn't), because it is an important element in the hoax.

The face/leaf image was added to prove this to us-- ie anyone who cares to look deeper.

In this theory, each finished ambulance pic was individually created from a separate, individual shot of just reflections layered on it's own individual staged ambulance scene original, which is why they are all unique. 4 shots were created (that we are aware of, maybe more) to select the best one, without any inconsistencies present. The money shot was published. The additional copies were "leaked" in the later weeks for the sole purpose of providing us with evidence that would lead us to the truth.

If this theory is accurate, that means anything could have been happening inside that ambulance that left Carrolwood on 6/25/09. Maybe I need to think on this more. This is a new line of "what if"s I haven't delved in  before now.

*off to ponder*  :geek:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 02, 2011, 01:18:36 AM
Bec, I could go with most everything you said, but I think the Ambulance took real MJ to the hospital so he could sit up on the gurney going in. But not the same scenario as the million dollar photo.

Just thinking again about the MJ person, some say is a dummy. Now if this is all a stage set, and the actual photo with overlays was taken well before, ready to be presented as breaking news fresh on June 25, and there's the possibility to me that blue-shirt pony-tail guy is MJ, then I see no reason why that could not be actually MJ on the photo stretcher. If you look at the color of the EMT's tanned skin and the creamy white of the gloves then artificial lighting could produce the light tan color of MJ's skin matching the other MJ pic. Now if you look at the bottom of his left arm (scroll up), you can see the skin gathered in a fold the way skin naturally does with pressure. I don't know if a dummy body would do that unless it was very soft latex. The EMT doesn't have to apply any real pressure to the chest since he just has to pose. The tubes don't have to go internally. I know some thought his left shoulder seemed cut off, but he has really slimmed down and the angle perhaps hides some depth. The so-called bubbles on his nose are just shadows to me. Only the 2 paps, security, and EMT (actors) need be in on the hoax. [attachment=2:1y485frw]amb.jpg[/attachment:1y485frw][attachment=1:1y485frw]MTV 1999.jpg[/attachment:1y485frw] And here the sit up guy after the ride to the hospital, same pony-tail as the blue shirt guy only changed to black shirt which is easy.[attachment=0:1y485frw]sit up.jpg[/attachment:1y485frw]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 02, 2011, 01:27:31 AM
One thought.

If the pic is proved real then that "thing" (time warped 1987 MJ) pictured in it went to UCLA on 6/25/09. That means we have to get a dummy into UCLA and try to deal with disposing of it as well. Hot item, a life size MJ dummy on 6/25/09 no doubt... risky and tricky.

Getting into the lighter side of things... dummies and dead men don't sit up on stretchers (UCLA gif), nor in helicopters, and they certainly don't jump out of coroner's vans  :lol:

Hows this.

If the pic is proved altered (fake) then that scene wasn't occurring inside that ambulance on 6/25/09, which means anything could have been going on in there... even a perfectly fine MJ taking a joy ride in an ambulance just like he did 9282 days previous.

Then he certainly could sit up on the stretcher, sit up in the helicopter (and would need the sheet instead of a body bag so he could breathe), and then at the end, jump out of the coroner's van.

This makes sense!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 02, 2011, 01:28:50 AM
Omg MjOnmymind, exact thought!! we posted at the same time, great minds and all.

How fun  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 02, 2011, 01:31:04 AM
:lol: The scenario is starting to play like a movie in my mind! But maybe I'm on the wrong track. :?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 02, 2011, 01:31:52 AM
Quote from: "bec"
One thought.

If the pic is proved real then that "thing" (time warped 1987 MJ) pictured in it went to UCLA on 6/25/09. That means we have to get a dummy into UCLA and try to deal with disposing of it as well. Hot item, a life size MJ dummy on 6/25/09 no doubt... risky and tricky.

Getting into the lighter side of things... dummies and dead men don't sit up on stretchers (UCLA gif), nor in helicopters, and they certainly don't jump out of coroner's vans  :lol:

Hows this.

If the pic is proved altered (fake) then that scene wasn't occurring inside that ambulance on 6/25/09, which means anything could have been going on in there... even a perfectly fine MJ taking a joy ride in an ambulance just like he did 9282 days previous.

Then he certainly could sit up on the stretcher, sit up in the helicopter (and would need the sheet instead of a body bag so he could breathe), and then at the end, jump out of the coroner's van.

This makes sense!


Great thinking.  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 02, 2011, 01:36:45 AM
Add to it Mjonmind's theory about MJ disguised as the ponytailed EMT and it's gold. That way both the legs and no legs sides to the stretcher debate win. Who cares, legs or no legs, that's MJ  :lol:

Gold!

Ps. the man inside the fence, lifting the stretcher into the ambulance, blue shirt, pony tail. MJ must have left Carrolwood as a paramedic and went into UCLA dressed that way too. There was probably nothing on the stretcher. Paramedics are actors and the 911 call is fake.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on March 02, 2011, 01:37:18 AM
Picture of a van with no light in the van, covered back windows.
[attachment=1:1dxo4hhr]geen licht achtergrond.jpg[/attachment:1dxo4hhr]

Picture of a van with light from back windows.

So again, the one who took the picture did a hell of a job.
Deleting all the background, putting in the picture with Michael and the ambulance guys and
the extras like car and leaves.
If there is no light from inside the ambulance it is not possible to see anything.
So my conclusion is, whatever picture was taken, it had to be from the inside or with the window removed.
Chappie
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 02, 2011, 01:48:02 AM
Chappie I think you have a point here.....I was about to go to my car and try to take a picture of the inside from the outside  :lol:

Maybe we should try to recreate the scene of that moment and take a pic in the same conditions, but It has to be the same light like that day, see what we get.

From your pic I see the camera caught only the reflection, or am I wrong?!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 02, 2011, 02:15:49 AM
After reading TS's latest post I'm going to take off my hoax hat and adopt a 'beginner's mind', go with the idea that MJ is dead and see if I can logically make events fit that scenario.

(Incidentally, I've done this many, many times over the months and never got very far before coming to the conclusion he's alive, but this time I'm REALLY going to try!)

So with regards to the ambulance pic, I'm happy that TS pointed out the importance of the timing of its release as that was really bugging me yesterday!

Now, unfortunately, I need to go to work!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on March 02, 2011, 03:13:55 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Chappie I think you have a point here.....I was about to go to my car and try to take a picture of the inside from the outside  :lol:

Maybe we should try to recreate the scene of that moment and take a pic in the same conditions, but It has to be the same light like that day, see what we get.

From your pic I see the camera caught only the reflection, or am I wrong?!

No, you are right....
Just try it.... ;)
I am going to do it again with a dummy inside


The dummy..... ;)
[attachment=0:1c0lhyut]dummy.jpg[/attachment:1c0lhyut]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on March 02, 2011, 03:40:28 AM
Just thinking out loud again.... shouldn't we take into consideration the weather in order to find out when that picture's been taken/created? The sun was shining on the 25th so if they staged the picture before they must have been sure that the sun would be shining on D-Day... i know that we more or less can know in advance what will be the weather of tomorrow but well it's never 100% accurate and given the importance of the hoax that kind of detail sure was important... so i was imagining if it actually rained on the 25th...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 02, 2011, 03:42:41 AM
To start with, not even Ben was clear with the story, he had two versions:

#1- "An ambulance comes out, we don´t know who is in it. You know, maybe it´s Michael maybe it´s his family member or his staff or something. So we go up to the window of the ambulance and try to get some pictures. You know, just put the camera angainst the thing and get some pictures. You know, maybe it´s a good story for us and it came out again, we don´t know who is in it at that point"
 
vs

#2 -"When I arrived around 12:40 the ambulance was inside the gates, there was a fire truck that was parked outside on the street. I was doing video and I could see the call screen and it said 50 year old man not breathing. At a certin point I could see the paramedics exiting the house with a stretcher. I moved closer to the gate, it was a difficult shot to get but I could see that it was Michael"

We don´t know vs it was Michael  :lol:  come on!

And, when did TMZ know about it? :roll:

Ben has picures with MJ before 2009  :roll:

What a koinkidink that Ben was there just at the right time, in the right spot taking "da pic"  :roll: Sure....

No pic ever existed from that moment June 25 2009, the pic has been either created from scratch or shopped from an existing pic with "a person" inside an ambulance and that person could have been Michael in the past. We know he collapsed during some concert rehersals before  ;)

Also, it was said that during March 2009, Michael suffered from "something" at the London Hotel. But the paramedics do wear a batch fom LA, so it could not be at that time either, unless, is shopped of course.

That pic is shopped to fit in to the June 2009 theory.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on March 02, 2011, 03:47:01 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Just thinking out loud again.... shouldn't we take into consideration the weather in order to find out when that picture's been taken/created? The sun was shining on the 25th so if they staged the picture before they must have been sure that the sun would be shining on D-Day... i know that we more or less can know in advance what will be the weather of tomorrow but well it's never 100% accurate and given the importance of the hoax that kind of detail sure was important... so i was imagining if it actually rained on the 25th...

For the ambulance pic that is not important, rain or sun....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 02, 2011, 03:54:34 AM
Great work on the reflection guys!

Sarahli, in June how many days in LA are typically sunny, then it's all about probability. I'm sure they worked that out.

I'm just continuing on the MJ body, and noticing the reddish mark on the bottom half of his shoulder.[attachment=0:1ure3wcj]amb.jpg[/attachment:1ure3wcj]
Is this supposed to be lividity? This could easily be done with make-up. His eyes don't appear sunken. His skin is not gray but warm-looking. But I think it is realistic looking.

Quote
http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/04/an ... art-1.html (http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/04/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-1.html)
Lividity:  settling of the blood in the lower portion of the body causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin. If the area blanched on pressure, it is said that the lividity is not fixed & you could estimate that the person has been dead for about 2 to 10 hrs.

Here is a breakdown of events that happen after heart stops (death) : please note that the time given are approximate
1-  The heart stops
2- The skin gets tight & grey in color
3- All the muscles relax
4- The Bladder & bowels empty ( also men will get an erection)
5- The Body's temperature will typically drop 1.5 degrees F. per hour unless outside environment is a factor. The liver is the organ that stays warmest the longest, & this temperature is used to establish the time of death if the body is found within proper time frame.

After 30 minutes you'll start seeing:
6- The skin gets purple & waxy
7-  The lips, finger & toe nail fade into a pale color or turn white as the blood leaves.
8- Blood pools at the lowest parts of the body leaving a dark purple-black stain called lividity
9- Hands & feet turn blue
10- eyes start to sink into the skull

After 4 hours you'll start seeing:
11-  Rigor mortis starts to set in
12- The purpling of the skin & pooling of the blood continues
13- Rigor mortis begins to tighten the muscles fo about another 24 hrs, then will reverse & the body will return into a limp state.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MFFreedom on March 02, 2011, 05:11:31 AM
What a GREAT thread! I was reading and thinking until steam left my ears  :lol: I have the following thoughts in mind.

I agree with those who say, the leaves and the red car are layers added to the 'original' picture. What indicates this is the sharp line ABOVE the leaves - the leaves suddenly end. Like the picture was cut off above the leaves and THEN added as a layer.
 
So, what I want to say about the leaves is: the leaves are lying on the ground. That indicates fall (autumn) to me. But we are supposed to have summer time. ? There is also the question: does a high profile community like Holmby Hills/Beverly Hills, etc. leave leaves on the ground until the end of June?  :?: i.e. never care to remove them? It's something no community with rich inhabitants in our country would do. You want to keep up the 'clean image'. and so take away most leaves when all leaves have fallen.
Question: What was MJ doing around that time (fall 2008)? News about his comeback, CD birthday party, ...
All hell will break lose? Well ... it definitely has: a hoax was and is surfacing *lol* I don't know why, but I have made a connection to her. But I could be way off  :lol:  8-) ... AND of course it's not explaining any how and who of the hoax ... still thinking.

The face: I can see why some see Michael in it. I happen to see Liza Minelli. The eyes, the nose and the lips, the tilting of the head all look all to familiar to me as Liza. And then it does make me think about her having said: All hell will break lose. I don't know how Liza plays into this, if at all, I have to look further into it. But I am like most, trying to SEE but maybe too hard.

OK, so far my thoughts.

Lova ya guys!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MFFreedom on March 02, 2011, 05:23:04 AM
PS:
1. Was the picture taken on June 25 for real and the fall image layer indicating fall added after?
2. Was the picture staged on June 25 with the image layer indicating fall added after?
3. Was the picture staged sometime in Fall 2008 and the leaves as of fall are correct?

... and still thinking ... but no answer  :?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on March 02, 2011, 05:53:21 AM
Ok dummy with car....just could not find a red one.
White one is 1.5 meter next to van.
[attachment=0:39q61rtv]car.jpg[/attachment:39q61rtv]

Again it is impossible that with the angel the ambulance picture is taken, the front of the car is in direct line with the ambulance.
Otherwise the guy who took the picture would be in the picture.
So the inside picture is in angle and the car is added straight.
If the picture is original and in angle you would have to see a part of the street and not just the car wheel and the lights.
It could only be an original picture if there was a red car passing by at the moment of the shot.
And that we can leave out for sure because of the original video.
Cars where standing still.
Gonna search for a red car and put it 4/5 meters from the van.
And run to get a shot!
Lets rock and roll..... :lol:
[attachment=1:39q61rtv]Wrong scene ben.jpg 1.jpg[/attachment:39q61rtv]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 02, 2011, 06:10:33 AM
Chappie you said an interesting thing: we have to see in the picture the reflection of the person who took it!!

I see your  pics have your reflection, at least we can see your arm with the camera......

No such thing in Ambulance pictures.

In your last pic I can see the dummy, but not very clear, I mean the face is not clear at all.
I can also see the white sheet you covered it with, at least I think I see it  :? but nothing else inside the van.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Adi on March 02, 2011, 06:57:07 AM
I know it’s a controversial one and many don’t agree, but I had a thought to look at the theory that it was a cadaver that the paramedics came to attend that day at Carrolwood on 25/06/2009.  

It may be worth looking at just for a different theory or perspective on the ambulance picture...

If it were a cadaver then presumably that would mean the ambo officers who responded on the ACTUAL day of 25/06/2009 are not in on the hoax…remember again they apparently said they thought Michael had been dead for a while when they arrived, it didn’t look like MJ and all the other things regarding the bedroom heating etc which has already been discussed alot.

So, they take this person away in the ambulance and the people we see in the vid outside Carrolwood on 25/06/2009 (red shirt guy/yellow shirt guy…one of whom perhaps is Ben E.) take some pics through the window to get the “money” shot and manage to photograph some REALLY good reflections of the street background on the ambo window ie the red car, the leaves, the gutter, the wall etc…but maybe that is it…they get nothing inside the ambulance.

Months earlier …maybe even a year earlier, MJ has already staged and photographed the inside of this ambulance scene with either himself acting as “dying” on the stretcher or it is a wax dummy.  Which would mean that these ambo officers we see in the released pics are actors...…heck they may even be Charlie Sheen and Mel Gibson for all we know :lol: …afterall, we can’t see their faces in these pictures.

Then on the day of 25/06/2009 those other photos are taken through the ambulance window when the cadaver is taken away with real the ambo officers and the red shirt/yellow shirt  guy get really good pics of all the background reflections on the ambulance window.

These reflections on the ambulance window taken the day of 25/06/2009 are then quickly layered by skilled Photoshop experts onto to the staged photographs of MJ “dying” taken months earlier.  We won’t see the cadaver as that would be edited out OR maybe the photographers didn’t even manage to get a clear photo inside to show a cadaver and really only did manage to get the reflections on the ambulance window on 25/06/2009.

This composite picture is very quickly released to the press as Michael “dying” in the ambulance….maybe added to it are some other hidden images as well, like some faces made of leaves..... just for fun  ;)

Where MJ is on 25/06/2009 ? .....maybe at the airport like Jermaine said or somewhere else yet to be figured out and the Directing of the short film on 25/09/2009 outside Carrolwood was done by.....maybe.... Prince after his UCLA lessons  ;)

Anyway – that is as far as I have managed to get.....and it's all supposition anyway.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 02, 2011, 06:58:32 AM
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12162)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12149)


These photos could be the same person, then the photo of the ambulance could have been taken before June 25, which do not understand is that Michael would the risk to go to the hospital.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 02, 2011, 09:40:09 AM
I'm wondering if people's head goes into an ambulance first??
This is from TMZ with Joan Collins, and her head is in first.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll ... air-party/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-collins-oscar-health-scare-victorian-swoon-ambulance-video-vantiy-fair-party/)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 02, 2011, 09:46:33 AM
Quote
fordtocarr wrote:

I'm wondering if people's head goes into an ambulance first??
This is from TMZ with Joan Collins, and her head is in first.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll) ... air-party/

That glass is not polarized and ambulance lights are ON ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 02, 2011, 10:47:23 AM
If I put myself in the place of believing the ambulance did  pick up a frail old dead man on the 25th and transport him to UCLA, why did the attending paramedics not say something was amiss when THE photo appeared showing a clearly recognizable and youthful MJ. It doesn't seem logical that they would just keep quiet about such big news unless they are part of the hoax.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 02, 2011, 10:51:50 AM
The version TS zoomed, image appears to go behind arm:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/PatternClose-upAmbulanceX.jpg)

Different version zoomed, image overlaps arm:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulanceimageoverarmzoom.jpg)

Staged shot:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulanceleavemealonedummylarge.jpg)

Lets say, photogs on 6/25/09 at the scene captured reflections on film that were layered onto a staged shot to create the final product.

That way the weather and light conditions matched the scene, as well as placement of the red car.

(side note, anyone notice how the sunlight reflected through the trees portion of the reflections appear to be a line of "fire" emanating from the crown of MJs head?)<------ story for another post.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: jacilovesmichael on March 02, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Add to it Mjonmind's theory about MJ disguised as the ponytailed EMT and it's gold. That way both the legs and no legs sides to the stretcher debate win. Who cares, legs or no legs, that's MJ  :lol:

Gold!

Ps. the man inside the fence, lifting the stretcher into the ambulance, blue shirt, pony tail. MJ must have left Carrolwood as a paramedic and went into UCLA dressed that way too. There was probably nothing on the stretcher. Paramedics are actors and the 911 call is fake.

Genius!!

I am so impressed and feel priviledged to be in such intelligent and witty company! You guys are all doing awesome at coming up with coherent theories. I haven't contributed much lately to the investigation but have been following all of your ideas intently and I have to say I'm more confident than ever that MJ's death was..is..100% a hoax! This is so exciting  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chloead505 on March 02, 2011, 11:35:28 AM
Without prejudice to anything anyone has mentioned in this thread...
How on earth could someone NOT recognize MJ on that pic, even if a great part of his face is obscured?
Either the paramedics are in on it, or they didnt see MJ's dead body or this pic is fake. Or, in fact, all three options are correct :-D Which is applying pure logic to the hoax. If this is a hoax, they must be correct. Am I making sense? LOL
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on March 02, 2011, 11:55:04 AM
Another thought.. still with the sun  :D  well i don't know if i'm correct or not but it seems to me that normally the part where the sun shines most on the red car should not appear on the picture because if this is really a reflection of it then it should be the part where the sun doesn't appear on the car (i don't know if i make myself clear...) but i think we see on the video that the car is placed on an area where there's not much sun and i see sunlight just on the part sided on the pavement which should not appear on the picture. So if this is correct then maybe it means that the red car is a different picture layered and has been taken prior or after the event from another position and is therefore not a reflection on the ambulance window... hope someone understands what i'm trying to say  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on March 02, 2011, 12:02:44 PM
TS, I have a question - How did we get access to the Ambulance photo?  It know it was published by

Entertainment Tonight (exclusive)
http://www.bnonews.com/news/395.html (http://www.bnonews.com/news/395.html)

The Insider (exclusive - it is slightly different to the ET version)
http://www.theinsider.com/news/2306335_ ... Last_Photo (http://www.theinsider.com/news/2306335_Michael_Jackson_Exclusive_Last_Photo)

and OK Magazine  
http://www.inquisitr.com/27969/ok-magaz ... son-cover/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/27969/ok-magazine-michael-jackson-cover/)

These pictures are all cropped.  The only places I can find a full picture are hoax/fan sites, YT, and photo galleries - all uncredited.  Can anyone explain where they came from?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 02, 2011, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Before moving on with the investigation of the ambulance photo, and other aspects, I want to mention once more the purpose for this thread--since it has only been a few days, and several are questioning it already.

As I said before, your METHOD or APPROACH to investigation is far more important than the ambulance photo or other parts of the hoax.  Not merely for investigating this hoax, but for your own good in your entire life, these are extremely valuable skills--and this forum and thread give you an opportunity to learn and practice these skills in an environment that is friendly (or at least should be, and usually is).  Part of the good investigation skills here, is learning how to critically examine things from the OPPOSITE perspective than your own belief (which in this case is the hoax).  We have a term for people who are unwilling to look at or even consider things from somebody else's perspective, and that term is "prejudice"--and you already know what MJ thinks about prejudice.

For the most part, people have been doing excellent research and have a lot of good questions and/or answers.  Some of the very things that I am planning to bring out, have already being discovered and brought out by others--which is great.  For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder.  I will explain why soon.

But even though most comments have been good or excellent, there have been a few complaints recently about this thread.  We still have several weeks before the trial, and we're just getting good started on this phase of investigation; if it is too much for you, then please either skip the thread, or else read only and don't comment.  I don't mean to exclude anyone who has genuine input on what is being discussed; but please keep your discussion to evidence for or against the topic at hand, and not complaints about the topic itself or the purpose for it, etc.  Again, if for any reason this thread is not helping you personally, then just skip it.  But please don't interfere with those who are taking it seriously, and who are getting enjoyment from it and/or are practicing good investigation skills.

Last of all, I am the one who started this thread: maybe I should give a little more of an overview, so people will have a little better idea of the bigger picture that we are working on piecing together here.  The ambulance picture is a major key to unlocking the entire hoax--how and who, etc.  It's not only important to understand IF the photo is fake, but HOW it was faked.  Once we understand how (staged in the same amublance, but another day; or staged in another ambulance on another day; or not staged at all, but Photoshop fabricated; or not fake at all, but 100% real; etc)--then the rest of the events should fall into place relatively easily.

For example if the paramedics were involved with staging the photo before 6-25-2009, then they were most likely also in on the hoax itself.  But if the ambulance photo was 100% real, or perhaps real but slightly edited in Photoshop, then maybe the paramedics are not in on the hoax at all. Once we understand whether or not the paramedics are in on the hoax, then many of the other pieces should fall into place--such as who or what was in the ambulance on 6-25-2009 (MJ, or dummy, or nothing, etc).  There is also the question of whether the entire court and courtroom is staged, with the judge and jury and lawyers all being confidential agreement actors--or is there perhaps just a few key people who know what's really going on.

If the answer to these questions doesn't interest you, that's your perfect right; but kindly allow those of us who are interested to continue our investigation.

Thanks.  :)
I am having a blast doing this. This is actually my first time dealing with the topic of the famous pic. Thanks for sharing secrets.  :mrgreen:

The opposite investigating is a little difficult at first when one is not used to it. It is like writing with your opposite hand. I believe this lesson will also help to improve our brain functions. I believe it will help us to use more of our brain capacity, it will help us to wake up from our slumber. I might have a slight advantage on observations because for over 20 years my life depended on being very aware of my surroundings and observing every little detail in my path.

So I have highlighted what I want to respond to.

I believe the pic was staged in another ambulance on another day and Photoshop fabricated. The extra stuff like the car, wall, leaves on the ground, etc. were added in layers over the one good original pic.

I also think it is a real pic of a wax dummy and not necessarily real EMT's but men in costumes to appear real. I believe real EMT's responded that day and are not in on the hoax. I am referring to the ones who took the stand. Who was in the bed and rode to the hospital? That is the million dollar question. I believe it was exactly who the EMT's described. A hospice elderly man. I don't know how he got there, meaning was he a donated body that was to be used for science research or was he someone MJ knew and made an agreement, I have no clue.  :?

Can someone find out what the patches look like for the real Paramedics and also can someone find out if the Paramedics that testified in court really work at Fire house 71, please? I tried but I had no luck.

The court is real, the judge is real, the lawyers are real, Murray is real. I think that there is confidential agreement actors and just a few key people who know what is really going on. I believe Ben is one of the key people who knows what is going on and he has a confidential agreement but he is a terrible improve actor, lol

He even mentions that there is an agreement when he is talking about how much he and the other people who were there that day and the other day uh....
I wondered about that last night. I thought was he referring to an agreement with the Entertainment Tonight show or Michael?
[youtube:3b3v05ha]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:3b3v05ha]

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulanceleavemealonedummylarge.jpg)

@bec,
This is exactly the pic I was searching for to prove there was a dummy in the staged pic scene. I could not find it.  ;) Thanks
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: hesouttamylife on March 02, 2011, 01:44:54 PM
:shock:  Is that a dummy of Michael?  My God I've never seen this.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 01:55:37 PM
Here is chappies picture resized.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/car700.jpg)

The car is next to the van, yet the car is in perspective because of the angle. To get the car parallel with the ambulance in the reflection, the guy should have made a shot without angle. That way he wouldn't have achieved the angle he has now, and he would have blocked the reflection himself. This shows that the car must have been shopped in, the red car should have been in perspective like on chappies picture, because the only moment they could have gotten the red car in the reflection, was when the ambulance was parallel with it, just before it drove off. Parallel car + picture with angle = car reflection in perspective. We don't see that on the ambulance picture.

@TS: I know you want us try and prove the picture is real, but the harder I try, the more I find that makes it a fake. That's probably your purpose though...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on March 02, 2011, 01:56:50 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Another thought.. still with the sun  :D  well i don't know if i'm correct or not but it seems to me that normally the part where the sun shines most on the red car should not appear on the picture because if this is really a reflection of it then it should be the part where the sun doesn't appear on the car (i don't know if i make myself clear...) but i think we see on the video that the car is placed on an area where there's not much sun and i see sunlight just on the part sided on the pavement which should not appear on the picture. So if this is correct then maybe it means that the red car is a different picture layered and has been taken prior or after the event from another position and is therefore not a reflection on the ambulance window... hope someone understands what i'm trying to say  :lol:

I managed to make a screenshot of the car from the video, we see that on one part there's no sun and this is the part that should be reflected on the ambulance window. Does it make sense?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 02, 2011, 02:01:13 PM
Quote
bec wrote:

One thought.

If the pic is proved real then that "thing" (time warped 1987 MJ) pictured in it went to UCLA on 6/25/09. That means we have to get a dummy into UCLA and try to deal with disposing of it as well. Hot item, a life size MJ dummy on 6/25/09 no doubt... risky and tricky.

Getting into the lighter side of things... dummies and dead men don't sit up on stretchers (UCLA gif), nor in helicopters, and they certainly don't jump out of coroner's vans  

Hows this.

If the pic is proved altered (fake) then that scene wasn't occurring inside that ambulance on 6/25/09, which means anything could have been going on in there... even a perfectly fine MJ taking a joy ride in an ambulance just like he did 9282 days previous.

Then he certainly could sit up on the stretcher, sit up in the helicopter (and would need the sheet instead of a body bag so he could breathe), and then at the end, jump out of the coroner's van.

This makes sense!



http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae) ... d-10974241

Bec I now think that Michael was in that ambulance, but not as a person about to die, on the following link is a video and you can look inside the ambulance that someone with their faces covered a lot like Michael, we must be careful because it is very fast but you can see in minute 1:53
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 02, 2011, 02:02:38 PM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
fordtocarr wrote:

I'm wondering if people's head goes into an ambulance first??
This is from TMZ with Joan Collins, and her head is in first.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll) ... air-party/

That glass is not polarized and ambulance lights are ON ;)

Okay, but, still being able to see in or not, lights or not, I wonder if head goes in first ALWAYS or not.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 02:17:45 PM
By the way, you can see chappie's angle is a little larger, and still you see her reflection. That means you would even see more of her with a smaller angle. That plus the fact that there was also the red guy on his left side, would make it impossible that none of them reflect in the picture.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Another thought.. still with the sun  :D  well i don't know if i'm correct or not but it seems to me that normally the part where the sun shines most on the red car should not appear on the picture because if this is really a reflection of it then it should be the part where the sun doesn't appear on the car (i don't know if i make myself clear...) but i think we see on the video that the car is placed on an area where there's not much sun and i see sunlight just on the part sided on the pavement which should not appear on the picture. So if this is correct then maybe it means that the red car is a different picture layered and has been taken prior or after the event from another position and is therefore not a reflection on the ambulance window... hope someone understands what i'm trying to say  :lol:

I managed to make a screenshot of the car from the video, we see that on one part there's no sun and this is the part that should be reflected on the ambulance window. Does it make sense?

The sun reflection on the car in the video doesn't match the sun reflection on the car in the ambulance picture. Means that at least the picture of the car was made on a different time, when the sun was in another position. The left side of the car is in the sun on the picture, in the shadow on the video and the reflection on the bonnet doesn't match either.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/carsreflection.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on March 02, 2011, 02:35:45 PM
Thanks Souza for the comparisons clearer that way  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ijcsly on March 02, 2011, 02:43:02 PM
Im-convinced mj wrote : I believe Ben is one of the key people who knows what is going on and he has a confidential agreement but he is a terrible improve actor, lol

He even mentions that there is an agreement when he is talking about how much he and the other people who were there that day and the other day uh....
I wondered about that last night. I thought was he referring to an agreement with the Entertainment Tonight show or Michael


BINGO he could be talking about an agreement hoaxwise!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 02, 2011, 03:14:17 PM
LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:262m6pwd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:262m6pwd]
Quote
ChristaLUKE1817
This video is intended for information & educational purposes only. No copyright infringement intended.
Clip borrowed from an all-access documentary titled: Who Killed The King of Pop? The Inside Story ....

IMO-I think the way the 911 dispatcher asks more than once if he is conscious or breathing is strange.

Michael Jackson UCLA Footage - Updated 1/28/10
[youtube:262m6pwd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCVaaM[/youtube:262m6pwd]
Quote
ChristaLUKE1817
To me this just proves that the X-17 photos were NOT photoshopped, which I have always questioned a teeny tiny bit. See original X17 photos here:
http://x17online.com/gallery/view_galle ... 17&index=6 (http://x17online.com/gallery/view_gallery.php?gallery=MJacksonHospital062509_X17&index=6)

Of course Im almost never 100% positive on anything I see or hear, but ... I hope you see what I see. I have now watched over a hundred times. The more I watch it, the more I'm convinced it's "someone" sitting then laying down. If you dont, thats cool. It just means I have officially gone crazy!

Just a little background. Im not good at Photoshop and Im not good at Sony Vegas movie-maker thingy. All I did was play around for a few hours, with the footage speed and filters, and just before I gave up for good I saw something. This is what I found:

(If for any reason you dont trust me, PLEASE request the details as to how I got this footage. I will be more than happy to list EVERYTHING I did so that you can do it for yourself from scratch.)

I have wondered if the pics from the day the ambulance took Michael to the hospital were staged also. hmmm?

Were there 2 ambulances at Michael's house that day?
Edited to add: The video of someone sitting up is crappy but I am bringing a different person's perspective and observation into the mix.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 02, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
Ben deserves an award for his acting in this role here. Just think how many takes of his interviews may have been taken. I believe some of those "slip-ups" like his "the other d.." and Jermaine's "to the airport" are deliberate.  MJ-- "You see what I want you to see, when I want you to see it," all the way through this hoax, the master and commander.

To those who say the ambulance photo MJ looks too young, must be a dummy. Why? Discount the coloring cause that's just lighting. Why would he even NEED a dummy, much more fun to do it himself. And he would be totally free to be involved on June 25 in other ways, which we're not sure about yet. This Arno Bani photo is 1999 or some say could be current.
[attachment=1:17to3c6f]amb.jpg[/attachment:17to3c6f][attachment=0:17to3c6f]arno mj.jpg[/attachment:17to3c6f]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 02, 2011, 04:05:24 PM
For better view I flipped the picture. Does he look like Michael? To me the eyebrows are different. And what happened to the tip of his nose? That looks more like a body double or a dummy looks like Michael. Even if that's Michael, he is definitely younger in this picture.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/f8jkm.jpg)

I do believe that the ambulance scene of the show was filmed in more than a day and that was the reason why Ben said "that day and the other d... ummm". Probably the first one was a rehearsal and probably some shootings were made. And with all of the pictures taken on the first and second day, they combined the items to get the best picture to give to the media as the ambulance picture. I still believe that the picture is photoshopped. And the paramedics need to be in on the hoax.

P.S: I do remember I saw a picture of a random patient at the ambulance, this same picture but there wasn't Michael in the picture. Yu guys remember the pic and can you pls post that picture here if you have it?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 02, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
Quote
Commenter from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTIoxTrKP84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTIoxTrKP84)
There is another very interesting interview Mr Ferrigno gave on Good Day L.A. in which he talked about Mike's "last days" and much of the same things he said here. What's amazing about the GDLA interview is when Mr Ferrigno talks about what a "prankster" Mike "was", so much so that he WOULD PUT A MANNEQUIN IN AN AMBULANCE. Watch this for yourselves. He made the point several times about how much Mike loves to fake people out and loves disguises. The more you research the more you'll doubt.
MikeYouKnowMyHeart 1 year ago
I think this was deliberately thrown out as bait immediately after June 25 by LKL and MJ to get hoaxers and non-believers thinking "mannequin" or dummy. Yes he might have done it in the past to get paperazzi off his trail, but he didn't need to do it this time. MJ always liked to keep people on their toes, mix things up a little, do things differently each time. I think right since the beginning we have fed suggestions to mislead people or guide people correctly. Drives us crazy!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 02, 2011, 04:16:31 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
For better view I flipped the picture. Does he look like Michael? To me the eyebrows are different. And what happened to the tip of his nose? That looks more like a body double or a dummy looks like Michael. Even if that's Michael, he is definitely younger in this picture.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/f8jkm.jpg)

I do believe that the ambulance scene of the show was filmed in more than a day and that was the reason why Ben said "that day and the other d... ummm". Probably the first one was a rehearsal and probably some shootings were made. And with all of the pictures taken on the first and second day, they combined the items to get the best picture to give to the media as the ambulance picture. I still believe that the picture is photoshopped. And the paramedics need to be in on the hoax.

P.S: I do remember I saw a picture of a random patient at the ambulance, this same picture but there wasn't Michael in the picture. Yu guys remember the pic and can you pls post that picture here if you have it?


His nose is much wider than Michael, even if his is missing a tip.  His ear does not look like Michael's ear. This is not Michael in the ambulance.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 02, 2011, 04:21:57 PM
I've just seen something that I've not noticed before, on the pic PureLove has just flipped - it looks like a clear plastic 'screen' or guard over the eyes and nose and covering the cheek as well, as if it could be attached to the blue thing over the mouth/chin. It's a different colour than the other areas of skin. Maybe it's a standard piece of medical equipment, it may have been discussed before, I don't know, but I just wanted to point it out as I've not noticed it before. Anyone else see it and/or know what it is?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 02, 2011, 04:25:00 PM
[youtube:3ttualxz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_0lXLdtDcA[/youtube:3ttualxz]

Quote
lizzielou73 Jul 7, 2010

On June 25, 2009, we were told by the media that Michael Jackson had died. As you can see in this video, Michael was not in cardiac arrest. At this point, it appears he was standing outside of the ambulance almost as if he were directing. This was the day that Michael's adventure began. "Follow the yellow brick road". One day, he may choose to comeback. Keep the Faith, beLIEve in Michael. :)

Notice the report also mentions Neverland, when in fact, the escape occurred at 100 Carolwood Drive.
Michael Jackson: Ambulance at Neverland
http://bit.ly/9l1q03 (http://bit.ly/9l1q03)

The man speaking is Ben Evenstad, a paparazzo friend of Michael's.
http://bit.ly/18zAnY (http://bit.ly/18zAnY)

Ben also made the fake ambulance photo.:)

"Brian Oxman confirms: Michael Jackson's ambulance picture is FAKE! "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbGrrN.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbGrrN..).

Jermaine speaks of the airport.

"Jermaine Jackson interview : oops moment!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0Soa.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0Soa..).

There you have it! The following people have told us that "the truth always prevails". ~Dr. Conrad Murray, Janet Jackson, & Michael Jackson ~

Let's hope it prevails one day soon!

Until that time ... "Love Lives Forever."

There's no doubt in my mind that Michael Jackson is still alive.

*777....... beLIEve.......777*
I found this video today. They actually did a good job with the screen grab of the man I saw in the video when I made this comment:
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308817#p308817 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308817#p308817)

One other thing about Ben when he was giving his interview he also said that over the last year (which would of been 2008) he says he had talked to Michael alot. (Something like that)

Talk about what? lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 04:26:01 PM
Quote from: "curls"
I've just seen something that I've not noticed before, on the pic PureLove has just flipped - it looks like a clear plastic 'screen' or guard over the eyes and nose and covering the cheek as well, as if it could be attached to the blue thing over the mouth/chin. It's a different colour than the other areas of skin. Maybe it's a standard piece of medical equipment, it may have been discussed before, I don't know, but I just wanted to point it out as I've not noticed it before. Anyone else see it and/or know what it is?

Could be something like this:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEFrc8uNjrnn7mzqa0u6jYW8Gsv09fMh7JRyc2wA04uvP7HIb6&t=1)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 02, 2011, 04:33:38 PM
For better comparison, here is another picture of Michael and the ambulance picture. The shape of the nose seems different. There's something black, some part of the equipment on the tip of the nose but still, the nose looks different. It's wider and the nostrils look different.

(http://i51.tinypic.com/2vrsz20.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 02, 2011, 04:40:49 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "curls"
I've just seen something that I've not noticed before, on the pic PureLove has just flipped - it looks like a clear plastic 'screen' or guard over the eyes and nose and covering the cheek as well, as if it could be attached to the blue thing over the mouth/chin. It's a different colour than the other areas of skin. Maybe it's a standard piece of medical equipment, it may have been discussed before, I don't know, but I just wanted to point it out as I've not noticed it before. Anyone else see it and/or know what it is?

Could be something like this:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEFrc8uNjrnn7mzqa0u6jYW8Gsv09fMh7JRyc2wA04uvP7HIb6&t=1)

That could explain the line under the nose, but can you also see the line going down the cheek to the mouth and also the bit that looks like a visor sticking out beyond the right eye?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 04:45:32 PM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "curls"
I've just seen something that I've not noticed before, on the pic PureLove has just flipped - it looks like a clear plastic 'screen' or guard over the eyes and nose and covering the cheek as well, as if it could be attached to the blue thing over the mouth/chin. It's a different colour than the other areas of skin. Maybe it's a standard piece of medical equipment, it may have been discussed before, I don't know, but I just wanted to point it out as I've not noticed it before. Anyone else see it and/or know what it is?

Could be something like this:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEFrc8uNjrnn7mzqa0u6jYW8Gsv09fMh7JRyc2wA04uvP7HIb6&t=1)

That could explain the line under the nose, but can you also see the line going down the cheek to the mouth and also the bit that looks like a visor sticking out beyond the right eye?

Yeah, but I think that is a part of the reflection.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 02, 2011, 05:07:26 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"

Yeah, but I think that is a part of the reflection.

Hmm, maybe ..... maybe not!! Like I think you said earlier, the more I look the more I see!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 02, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
Another joy ride starting with the ambulance leaves and back to the roots  ;) ...

Some more details of the interior of ambulance 71:
[youtube:1bn7e1dw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEywlRYnKZM[/youtube:1bn7e1dw]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEywlRYnKZM

Some more details as to weather conditions in Los Angeles on June 25, 2009 (downtown, alternatively search for Santa Monica):
http://classic.wunderground.com/history/airport/KCQT/2009/6/24/DailyHistory.html?&MR=1

Surprise: some more leaves (this time they are not moving only by overlaying parts of an arm but they are moving themselves).
First, watch the leaves around the bell box. They look familiar, right?
[youtube:1bn7e1dw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdLON-hvsHM[/youtube:1bn7e1dw]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdLON-hvsHM

These plants are to be found everywhere around the houses of the block, so the (similar but too blurry) leaves in the ambulance may indicate we are somewhat close to the "hot spot".
Watch the video again for noticing the irregular flagstones in front of the hidden gate - usually concrete is being used in Caliland gateways so this is something special to keep in mind.

This is giving another perspective on a rear gate we did not notice so far (watch for 0:25):
[youtube:1bn7e1dw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM8AWX2z-Go&feature=related[/youtube:1bn7e1dw]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM8AWX2z-Go&feature=related

An ariel view on the house (north is left):
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nHmUxKq2nz4/SkUSsZsPdHI/AAAAAAAADHA/ZV9OL38xHak/s1600-h/100-North-Carolwood-Drive-001.jpg
Notice the small "garden" house behind the pool. Gray roof. Close to the fences / walls.

A Google streetview is available for 144 Monovale Drive, Los Angeles. The mansion appears on the left side.

So we check out whether there is a third "hidden" gate to the property.
Searching for that gate turns out to be a little bit tricky.
(Feeling again like in a fairy tale cracking the prince's brainteaser - a feeling I did not really could shake off during this whole journey in which the prince would ask riddles to be solved...)
OK, my brain will give it a try.

You will notice driving around the block on streetview (except for Carolwood Dr. which is blocked on Google) that the area is a little bit hilly. The mansion is surrounded by straight walls on Carolwood Dr. hidden by trees and a little green, high but irregular walls on Monovale Dr. hidden walls on Sunset Blvd. (behind a little hill and big trees) and some smaller hedges on Ladera Dr. However, on Ladera Dr., there should be no direct connection to the mansion, these should be separate properties.

Now having worked the circuit around the property, I do not see any other possibility of finding the gate except it were hidden north / left of the garden housewith the gray roof (green square). (Btw. the blue square gives Elvis's former house with its main gate on 144 Monovale Dr.)
[attachment=2:1bn7e1dw]aerial view_3.jpg[/attachment:1bn7e1dw]

This is a still with the "moving" gate:
[attachment=0:1bn7e1dw]Rear Gate.jpg[/attachment:1bn7e1dw]

This is another arial showing that due to the hilly features of the area and the constructions, the gate is IMPOSSIBLE at that location.
[attachment=1:1bn7e1dw]aerial view_4.jpg[/attachment:1bn7e1dw]

I noticed in addition - when comparing streetview with the video taken in May - that there is not any wild growing tree on Monovale Dr that would resemble those in the "new home" video.
Google streetview / maps are sometimes a little bit outdated. That might explain slight differences.

Conclusions:
1) There was some guy popping up out of the blue in January and May 2009 reporting as a "neighbour" for OVGuide.com - a video platform site (former top 500 site). He was ringing the bell at a rear gate of MJ which appears to be new evidence (I saw those vids in 2009 already but could not connect... LOL). This man introduced the "rear gate" to us.
2) The leaves of the plants surrounding the bell box from the video ressemble those in the ambulance pic pretty much, yet they are not only to be found at that bell's address.
3) There may be a "hidden" gate of "moving branches" as the real gate to the Jackson family home.
4) I would consider talking a complete different house and gate and that Carolwood was a smokescreen since I do not have seen any proof yet that the green "rear" gate does exist there. Maybe one of our fellows in LA may check that for us? If the green gate does not belong to Carolwood mansion, it is likely to be found in some hilly area though and may be located just across the street.
5) This is a DEEP rabbit hole.
6) I'd rather give my eyes some rest now.  :lol:
7) Maybe the OVGuide guy was just an attention seeker making this all up.
But why would we have leaves in the ambulance pic? Michael leaving? So simple?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 05:37:55 PM
Ah TS, seems like you have some more time with us: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18101 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18101)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 02, 2011, 05:39:07 PM
Quote
TS_comments wrote:
For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder. I will explain why soon.

Of course it is EXTREMELY important! If the ambulance pic was given/sold to the media and shown online before Michael's actual time of death was officially called; that would be in favor of the hoax.

Something like that?

Kinda like how TMZ knew and reported it before the doctor I mean Jermaine reported time of death.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 05:54:13 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote
TS_comments wrote:
For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder. I will explain why soon.

Of course it is EXTREMELY important! If the ambulance pic was given/sold to the media and shown online before Michael's actual time of death was officially called; that would be in favor of the hoax.

Something like that?

Kinda like how TMZ knew and reported it before the doctor I mean Jermaine reported time of death.

Did we already find out when it was posted first? I thought ET was the first and as far as I remember it was quite soon after the 'death'. Yet their archive says June 28... :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 02, 2011, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Indicator for the publishing time could be early tweets about the photo.
Here are some (Guiliana Rancic is a host on E! News):
Quote
Gd nght! Hope u have a wonderful week. Instead of focusing on what u don't have, focus on what u DO have & be grateful...more will come:)
8:00 AM Jun 22nd, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/GiulianaRancic/status/2275487798

Answer:
Quote
@GiulianaRancic please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
2:30 AM Jun 26th, 2009 via UberTwitter in reply to GiulianaRancic
http://twitter.com/EricaMM/status/2336027430

Answer:
Quote
No, we won't. RT @EricaMM Please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
6:03 PM Jun 25th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/GiulianaRancic/status/2336514167

Giuliana Rancic gives her location on twitter in Los Angeles.
EricaMM gives her latitude / longitude on twitter and that is pointing towards California as well.

You will notice some time discrepencies between the tweets.
I am currently having no explanation for that except that
a) twitter's crash due to MJ had some severe data base consequences
b) EricaMM was NOT in California.

A time zone converting indicates that EricaMM was in Western Europe.
Translating Guiliana's tweet time into European time would give 3:00 a.m. in the morning of June 26, 2009. Since Erica tweeted from her phone (ubertwitter is a mobile phone application for twitter), that makes sense.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?day=25&month=6&year=2009&hour=18&min=5&sec=0&p1=137&p2=195

So the picture on ET Online had been seen by somebody on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m.

That was the original link to the photo (page removed meanwhile):
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75724/index.html

Quote
The photo of Jackson is the last image published before his untimely death, Thursday, June 25,2009. The photo shows Jackson in an ambulance being worked on by paramedics who were attempting to revive the King of Pop.

Jackson was pronounced dead at 2:26 p.m. at the UCLA Medical Center.
http://www.suite101.com/content/controversial-king-of-pop-photo-published-online-a127821

Souza, did you see this post from Grace a few pages back? I think this is the nearest we've got yet to when the pic was first released.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 06:15:33 PM
No, I guess I missed that one. So June 25 6:03 pm we have for now.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 02, 2011, 09:15:06 PM
ET indeed released the picture on June 25: http://bumpshack.com/2009/06/25/shockin ... ast-photo/ (http://bumpshack.com/2009/06/25/shocking-michael-jacksons-last-photo/)

But the link to the ET article doesn't work anymore and ET has it in the archive for June 28....why? That's strange.

The first comment on the blog was 19:06 (7:06 pm). But what timezone? LA or NY is a big difference.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: scorpionchik on March 02, 2011, 09:15:33 PM
"Conclusions:
1) There was some guy popping up out of the blue in January and May 2009 reporting as a "neighbour" for OVGuide.com - a video platform site (former top 500 site). He was ringing the bell at a rear gate of MJ which appears to be new evidence (I saw those vids in 2009 already but could not connect... LOL). This man introduced the "rear gate" to us.
2) The leaves of the plants surrounding the bell box from the video ressemble those in the ambulance pic pretty much, yet they are not only to be found at that bell's address.
3) There may be a "hidden" gate of "moving branches" as the real gate to the Jackson family home.
4) I would consider talking a complete different house and gate and that Carolwood was a smokescreen since I do not have seen any proof yet that the green "rear" gate does exist there. Maybe one of our fellows in LA may check that for us? If the green gate does not belong to Carolwood mansion, it is likely to be found in some hilly area though and may be located just across the street."


Is it really necessary, useful if I go Carolwood drive and observe location and house? Would that help with anything? I can go, no problem.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 02, 2011, 09:36:30 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
fordtocarr wrote:

I'm wondering if people's head goes into an ambulance first??
This is from TMZ with Joan Collins, and her head is in first.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll) ... air-party/

That glass is not polarized and ambulance lights are ON ;)

Okay, but, still being able to see in or not, lights or not, I wonder if head goes in first ALWAYS or not.
Head ALWAYS goes in first. Unless a bizarre circumstance such as a woman is labor where birth is imminent but you can't deliver on scene for some reason. However, this is still rarely done even in that rare instance. I haven't heard of anyone actually doing it, I just know it's something that can be done if need be. But even then, the head of the stretcher still goes in first, the woman just sits in the opposite direction. The stretcher can only go in one way, and this is standard where ever you go.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 02, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
ET indeed released the picture on June 25: http://bumpshack.com/2009/06/25/shockin (http://bumpshack.com/2009/06/25/shockin) ... ast-photo/

But the link to the ET article doesn't work anymore and ET has it in the archive for June 28....why? That's strange.

The first comment on the blog was 19:06 (7:06 pm). But what timezone? LA or NY is a big difference.

Yes, and here is another report: http://www.thedirt.com.au/blog/michael-jacksons-last-photo/20090626-4jvd.html?page=3

For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them!  But actually, that is the way I want it.  :)

Nevertheless, I am now going to go into an extensive analysis of Ben's slip, and why the timing of the photo release is EXTREMELY important.

Here is the statement, word-for-word, with a little context.  "So, yes, Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ---- are a part of that agreement, are gonna make a lot of money.  Absolutely!" {at 4:05, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4}.

The first step in analyzing this slip, is understanding what Ben almost said--it should be obvious, but let's make it very clear.  He almost said: "... that day and the other DAY!"  We know this because of the word "other".  You say: “That tree, and the other tree …”, or “This car and the other car …”--you don’t say: “That tree and the other car …”  So if the noun before and after "other" is the same noun, then it would have to be "... that day and the other DAY."  This conclusion is further verified by the fact that Ben had actually pronounced the first letter of the next word, before interrupting himself; and that first letter is quite clearly a "d" sound.

The next step is to assess the slip-up factor.  Whether intentional or accidental, this statement has all the signs of a slip-up.  Not only does Ben interrupt himself right in the middle of the word "day"; but at that same instant, he blinks his eyes and turns away from the camera.  Then he stammers a couple of times, before getting himself somewhat back together--and the letting the word "agreement" slip out.  :lol:

So if this is an intentional slip-up, then we surely have a faked photo (regardless of how it was faked); and also a hoax, not murder--because surely nobody would INTENTIONALLY slip-up on a pre-meditated plot to murder the KING!  But what if it was an accidental slip, could it then be murder?  Well, even if murder, it would still be a PHONY PHOTO!  Which is the main point of investigation right now.  However, this is where the timing of releasing this photo gets very interesting.

We know "that day" was June 25, 2009; there were too many people who observed and reported it, for them all to be in on the hoax (including the tour bus, etc).  But when was the "other day" that Ben spilled for us: before or after June 25 (it can NOT be the SAME day, or it would not be the "OTHER" day)?

If the photo was first released on June 28, or 27--then perhaps the other day was June 26.  Perhaps after attempting to get a good shot of MJ in the ambulance, they had nothing usable; so they scrambled to pull together a staged shot on June 26 (the "other day"), and then released the famous fake photo shortly after.  If this is how it really went, then perhaps MJ could have really died on June 25 (murdered, or whatever); and these paparazzi guys were in on nothing, except fake journalism--not in on a murder plot, and not in on a hoax plan.

However, what if the photo was first released ON JUNE 25???  And yes, we have several evidences of this--including tweets, news reports, and even the personal testimony of one or more on this very forum and thread!  So if the photo was released on June 25, then the "other day" was BEFORE June 25; and so we have the paparazzi being in on SOMETHING planned in advance, the only question is what.  

Could it be that they were in on a murder plot?  Does this fit the murder theory?  Think about it a little.  How many extra people would be involved in this pre-meditated murder plot, just to get a photo?  We would have Ben, "Chris, AND the other PEOPLE [staged paramedics?] that were there that day AND THE OTHER D[AY]"!  The word "people" is plural, including a MINIMUM of two, and usually three or more--PLUS Ben and Chris.  So we have here at least four, and probably more, involved in a premeditated murder plot--JUST TO GET A SINGLE PICTURE?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Why would the murderers spend all the money to bribe several people to be murder accomplices, and also increase the risk of the whole murder plot getting exposed?  The more people who know about the murder, the more likely somebody will spill the beans--whether intentionally or not, such as Ben's slip for example!  Why all that money and risk, just for a picture?  Why would murderers give ten cents for a picture, why would they care???

If it is a hoax, on the other hand, then there is a very important reason for the ambulance photo: to help convince the public that MJ died!  A picture is worth a thousand words, right?  Now several have mentioned on this very thread, that most unbelievers agree that the photo is fake; but they still think it is murder.  WHAT???  Did they ever stop to THINK about WHY a sinister murder plot would be designed to include a pre-planned fake ambulance picture?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 02, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
TS thank you for clearing this out. You are absolutely right.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 02, 2011, 10:23:34 PM
LOL- TS- No, they don't.  That is the battle we fight with non-believers every day.  Many SEE the nonsense or cannot argue against some of the issues brought up- yet they are dead set on murder.

The picture is always one of my main points- there is absolutely NO POINT in having it released or faked. Oh, I just remembered on "murder" argument I heard before: the picture was faked to show how "healthy" Michael was.  Which directly contradicts what many murder-theory believers also say- that he was emaciated and thin, as witnessed by several followers.  

Btw- I believe the paramedics to be in on the hoax, not only due to the picture having possibly been taken on another day, but also due to the following contradiction: How did the "hospice patient like" MJ they testified to having found in the house morph into the very recognizable and "healthy" looking MJ in the ambulance?  If they were NOT in on the hoax- the contradiction doesn't make any sense. So, both possible scenarios (the pics having been taken before- which I tend to lean toward due to release time) and there being a "fake" MJ (dummy...etc) in the ambulance to me scream, paramedics are fake.  That makes the 911 call fake (which explains the discrepancy in the tapes, the call showing as having been made from the Beverly Hills HOtel), too.  Why would people be involved: MONEY.  - and an ongoing deal.  THe actors probably are still playing in different parts.  
Oh, another thing- I highly doubt that Michael went to the hospital that day.  Too risky- and not necessary if the EMTs were in on the hoax.

Interesting what you guys have discovered re hidden gate and the proximity to Elvis' previous estate. Hm...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 02, 2011, 10:34:01 PM
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 02, 2011, 10:37:49 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Oh, another thing- I highly doubt that Michael went to the hospital that day.  Too risky- and not necessary if the EMTs were in on the hoax.

And Larry King Live is a cake walk??

Lol. You forget MJ can disguise himself as anyone and no one would ever be the wiser.

and no certainly not necessary for MJ to go to UCLA that day, the role could have been played by anyone (EMT, helicopter sitter-upper, coroner van jumper outer), but it would be an awful lot of fun to play yourself.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on March 02, 2011, 10:45:52 PM
Quote from: "RK"
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.

True but most people just went with it and accepted it as "proof" that Michael was in a bad way if not already dead.

This photo serves two purposes then - to show Michael "died" and to get people thinking "that ain't right - something fishy is going on".  We are in the latter group and for some reason our group is much smaller...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 02, 2011, 10:49:46 PM
Quote from: "RK"
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.

Yes, "a lot" in the sense of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, who researched the hoax from the ambulance picture.  But the MAJORITY of people around the world, MILLIONS or even BILLIONS, who never think twice about what the media tells them--THEY bought the ambulance photo: hook, line, and sinker!  The hoax would NOT work if BILLIONS of people believed that it was a hoax; then nobody would be shocked when BAM comes!  Nobody would WAKE UP!!!

(Thanks, Andrea, you beat me to it!)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 02, 2011, 11:05:30 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
The car is next to the van, yet the car is in perspective because of the angle. To get the car parallel with the ambulance in the reflection, the guy should have made a shot without angle. That way he wouldn't have achieved the angle he has now, and he would have blocked the reflection himself. This shows that the car must have been shopped in, the red car should have been in perspective like on chappies picture, because the only moment they could have gotten the red car in the reflection, was when the ambulance was parallel with it, just before it drove off. Parallel car + picture with angle = car reflection in perspective. We don't see that on the ambulance picture.

@TS: I know you want us try and prove the picture is real, but the harder I try, the more I find that makes it a fake. That's probably your purpose though...

Yes, that is part of the purpose.  However, I still want to play "devil's advocate", and challenge whatever I can.  So here I go on this one.

What if the ambulance was NOT parallel with the red car?  What if the pap was taking the shot through the window at an angle (barely off the right side of the window, just enough to keep himself out of the shot, and pointing towards the back of the ambulance)?  What if the ambulance was maneuvering, when the famous photo was taken, and the two angles canceled each other, so that it looked in the reflection like the car was parallel with the ambulance?  Notice also in Ambulance1 picture, that the top of the wall appears to be at an angle (with the right side of the wall lower than the left).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 02, 2011, 11:23:36 PM
This may be here nor there, but a bell rang when someone mentioned that on the ambulance picture, something was wrong with MJ's nose. That person remarked that it looked like it had bubbles at the tip. I smirked to myself, because this reminded me of something when I was a kid. I just laughed and kept reading--I think I was three pages behind, when I came back to the site that night---you guys are smokin' :!:  :lol: One thing at a time, focus. I read through and forgot about it.

But, reading tonight, it came up again---TWICE, that something is amiss about his nose, in the picture. I have a theory as to what is going on...  :)

But first, something else occurred to me while y'all were on a roll about the wax dummy in the vehicle. As hot as you are on the trail, I believe it would be impossible and risky try to  get rid of a full sized dummy---wax or otherwise---some kind of mannequin or even a rag doll, without SOME one seeing it at exit of the ambulance.

Even being seen with it anywhere in the emergency area, would have raised curiosity. :P  

As a magician, one does not even leave a TRAIL of suggestion, which is not what you MEANT. NO THING pointing eyes TO the trick, only away...

A day's prank, ok---but a two year Hoax? No no no! Not even the faintest  :? image of a dummy/substitute near MJ's news story may be planted in peoples' minds!!  

:shock: Holy moley, talk about a hot potato, NO one can be found with a dummy, or it would immediately register in at least a couple of peoples' minds that MJ is acting up. I think THAT would have put more investigative curiosity on things right there, and it would have busted the charade.  :o

I now think that if there was a dummy, it had to be the kind which can be deflated in a minute and stuffed in someone's shirt or pants, secured by their belt. It has to be something which completely disappears before the ambulance doors are thrown open at the hospital. (btw, this reminds me of the time MJ told Rabbi Boteach, in passing, that he is embarrassed by male performers who "stuff their pants". COINCIDENCE? :P )

Ok. WHO is left to exit the vehicle, as "the injured" then?  Oh........just some totally nondescript older man, or even some young man---OR GIRL,  :o just anyone who can easily DISAPPEAR in any crowd.

The press, others, are looking for Michael Jackson. Even if some one sneaks in the other way and meets them from the front, the "Patient" has already quickly been stripped of anything remotely MJ [such as, say, a younger MICHAEL JACKSON MASK,  :o and all people would see is a couple EMTs and other  :roll: people in the hallway. I think it would be WAY too dangerous to risk the real MJ confined either in that ambulance or ER entranceway!!

But, this is very very common in the vestibule of the ER. You ALWAYS see EMTs WITHOUT their charges(the person they picked up and delivered to ER) while they wait for signatures on their paperwork, or sometimes wait to see if their patient has stabilized. And, as NO one can just walk into the double doors where the patients and the action IS, NO one is the wiser as to WHO it was. So, who WAS that masked "man"??? :lol:

The older man--or younger man---or girl---body double, simply walks back through the crowd, as if (s)he has been treated hours earlier and released, having NOTHING to do with the MJ delivery to ER... :?    

This brings me to this: When I was 15 I made a rubber mask of my own likeness for a class. I had to do it twice, because I never did it before, and flubbed up the nose. :x  But it wouldn't have mattered; cuz after my second failed attempt, my teacher told me this was a common problem. The very tip of the first nose was mildly bubbly :shock: . The second one, the very tip stayed in the mold! :evil:

This :P  is what I found funny a couple days ago omg---without even realizing the similarities!! Incidentally, I still have this frightening thing nailed to a board, with a chipped nose!! It hung for years  :oops: in our living room(my mom was so proud :oops: ).

But, my main point is, that I believe MJ's MICHAEL album is more closely tied to this hoax than I first thought. Perhaps, Behind The Mask is a HINT about the ambulance pic!  :)

JUST the TITLES of songs---not all the lyrics. Look at "Hollywood" (Tonight) :!: on the video we've been dissecting on this thread. Hollywood, you betcha, and TONIGHT! Breaking News!

MJ sings, "SHE's" going Hollywood...That's why I think the body double was female. EVERYone would be looking for a male to come out of the ambulance or be in that hallway/ ER....

Ok streaming over.
Having trouble posting--staying connected :roll:  :|
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 03, 2011, 12:37:29 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Can someone find out what the patches look like for the real Paramedics ...

Here is the LAFD patch, worn by the paramedics in the ambulance photo: http://www.fireattire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FA&Product_Code=P-Off-Blk&Category_Code=P

Is that what you were looking for?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Tigger on March 03, 2011, 12:54:18 AM
[youtube:1lgyq6ud]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyabGc6izXo[/youtube:1lgyq6ud]


 ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: scorpionchik on March 03, 2011, 01:04:55 AM
Michael has no intent to come back unless he has real deal to reveal & prove conspiracy murder atempt to  him and he wants to go through that.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 03, 2011, 01:19:08 AM
I am wondering if the red car matters in the hoax, was it staged or was it just some random car of some random person?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 03, 2011, 01:42:16 AM
Quote from: "Tigger"
[youtube:3rsklm7x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyabGc6izXo[/youtube:3rsklm7x]


 ;)

beutiful creature, but what do you mean with this post!?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 03, 2011, 01:50:52 AM
I think now that there are poor chances for the ambulance pic to be real, especially after seeing Chappie's trials.
And because the paramedics said they didn't recognize MJ, but in the pic we can clearly see it is Michael and he is recognisable with not any special effort.

So Ben faked the photo, but what does this proove?
He did it for money, or he did it to cover up a hoaxed death?

I just don't know.  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 03, 2011, 01:56:29 AM
Quote from: "Its her"

But first, something else occurred to me while y'all were on a roll about the wax dummy in the vehicle. As hot as you are on the trail, I believe it would be impossible and risky try to  get rid of a full sized dummy---wax or otherwise---some kind of mannequin or even a rag doll, without SOME one seeing it at exit of the ambulance.
|

Much as I enjoyed reading your ideas, if the whole dummy (or even real MJ) pic was done on 'the other day', there would actually be no need for anything 'risky' to be in the ambulance on 25th.

(An old hospice patient maybe, but that's a huge other theory which I'm not about to get into just now!)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 03, 2011, 01:57:49 AM
Oh, ItsHer, I also feel the Michael album has a lot to do with the hoax, if we have a hoax, even if I am not sure I'm only hearing the things I want to hear, maybe there aren't even there  :roll:

I am surprised of believers' lack of reaction in general to the meanings of the lyrics ......of course there were many who reacted but I think it's much more in the Michael album to discover...yet.....

Anyway, in my opinion Behind the mask is not related to the ambulance photo, but of course I might be wrong.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 03, 2011, 02:01:39 AM
Gina, if he did it for money, what's stopping the paramedics from saying, uh, that pic is fake. People who have no interest in keeping it quiet would know that it was fake. It's quite a famous pic. I highly doubt real emt's would say nothing at all about it in 20 months.

Not to mention I can't see someone being dumb enough to fake a pic for that kind of big money that could so easily be whistleblown as a fake.

Besides, how does Ben obtain a Michael Jackson dummy on the day MJ dies to produce a fake in the first place.

Gina. Use common sense. The truth is slapping you in the face!

Ps. Gina, I just want to shake you sometimes. With love of course. But seriously shake you good.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 03, 2011, 02:11:41 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "RK"
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.

Yes, "a lot" in the sense of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, who researched the hoax from the ambulance picture.  But the MAJORITY of people around the world, MILLIONS or even BILLIONS, who never think twice about what the media tells them--THEY bought the ambulance photo: hook, line, and sinker!  The hoax would NOT work if BILLIONS of people believed that it was a hoax; then nobody would be shocked when BAM comes!  Nobody would WAKE UP!!!

(Thanks, Andrea, you beat me to it!)
I'm just thinking of the reaction of the world in that they were wanting the confirmation of the ambulance or autopsy picture that MJ was dead, the haters taking delight in this gruesomeness, seeing this "villian" sort of getting what they thought he deserved. Then for fans they were horrified at seeing this, almost nauseus and the thought of autopsy pics was horrendous making many weep. This initial same day tweet speaks loudly:
Quote
@GiulianaRancic please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
2:30 AM Jun 26th, 2009 via UberTwitter in reply to GiulianaRancic
Now after seeing the pics so many times and knowing he's alive, we're totally unphased by the pic. But in the beginning it was very shocking, like a PG-14 pic and people were in no mood to even surmise that it was a fake. That pic was all about shock value. Mind control uses trauma based incidents, and 911 was the world being traumatized so they would accept a police state where there's more invasive scrutiny and security, and we give up more rights for our safety. Perhaps MJ is playing their game to get the world's attention. JMT.  I wasn't even interested in MJ before that day, and after a crash course in his life and music, started to grieve deeply with very much emotions. Believing he was alive was the only thing that gave relief from the pain.  I think non-believers are still reeling with raw emotions, with no closure because the trial hasn't convicted anyone yet. It's like they're in a state of limbo, and we hoaxers are awaiting his return. Yes this photo really symbolizes this crossroads. I think Perry Mason has to piece together the who did what when story of that day before we're going to be sure of things in that pic.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 03, 2011, 02:22:41 AM
Ok just thinking out loud here. If I go along with the idea that the photo was made on 'the other day', does that have to mean hoax?

You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK)  So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.

Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 03, 2011, 02:26:33 AM
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.

MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 03, 2011, 02:31:07 AM
I guess he read Ian Halperin's 6 month and he's dead prediction, which turned out to be true to the day. :o  ;)
http://www.showbizspy.com/article/18093 ... eport.html (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/180932/michael-jackson-has-six-months-to-live-report.html)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 03, 2011, 02:56:10 AM
Just giving a close-up of the nose. Not sure if they are bubbles but shadows, because the skin texture and shape changes with each of the 4 pics.
[attachment=2:mqsrtbom]amb1.jpg[/attachment:mqsrtbom][attachment=1:mqsrtbom]amb2.jpg[/attachment:mqsrtbom][attachment=0:mqsrtbom]amb3.jpg[/attachment:mqsrtbom]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 03, 2011, 02:56:58 AM
[attachment=0:3hk9nh2w]amb4.jpg[/attachment:3hk9nh2w]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 03, 2011, 03:22:25 AM
Was that a dummy? A dummy with the eyes closed?
I remember TMZ once said his eyes were wide open when he was in that bed. He closed his eyes himself or, being dead when they arrived, they closed his eyes?

Maybe the paramedics say nothing because there is nothing to say, in case the pic is real.

In case the pic is fake, yes, they sould say something, IF somebody is willing to pay any attention to what they have to say. Now that I think about it, why no media was interested in having an interview with them  :? ?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Adi on March 03, 2011, 03:38:43 AM
The thing I have circled in the ambo photo has niggled at me for ages. It seems to be where the headlight of the red car is...but it looks like it is something dangling out of the headlight socket...and it changes slighty in each of the 4 pics  posted by TS.

Does anyone have any idea what it is that is dangling there out of the socket? to me it looks like a circus top or a carousel top.......it just doesn't look like a real headlight that has fallen out of its socket....but then again what is real in this picture?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 05:00:10 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
The car is next to the van, yet the car is in perspective because of the angle. To get the car parallel with the ambulance in the reflection, the guy should have made a shot without angle. That way he wouldn't have achieved the angle he has now, and he would have blocked the reflection himself. This shows that the car must have been shopped in, the red car should have been in perspective like on chappies picture, because the only moment they could have gotten the red car in the reflection, was when the ambulance was parallel with it, just before it drove off. Parallel car + picture with angle = car reflection in perspective. We don't see that on the ambulance picture.

@TS: I know you want us try and prove the picture is real, but the harder I try, the more I find that makes it a fake. That's probably your purpose though...

Yes, that is part of the purpose.  However, I still want to play "devil's advocate", and challenge whatever I can.  So here I go on this one.

What if the ambulance was NOT parallel with the red car?  What if the pap was taking the shot through the window at an angle (barely off the right side of the window, just enough to keep himself out of the shot, and pointing towards the back of the ambulance)?  What if the ambulance was maneuvering, when the famous photo was taken, and the two angles canceled each other, so that it looked in the reflection like the car was parallel with the ambulance?  Notice also in Ambulance1 picture, that the top of the wall appears to be at an angle (with the right side of the wall lower than the left).

That's always a possibility of course, but not in this case. It could be the case when the pic was taken this exact moment, although the car is too far away to make such a big reflection. Chappie's car was less than 2 yards from the van and is more or less the same size in the reflection, the red car in this picture is at leat 6 or 7 yards from the ambulance:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/4_proof_pic.jpg)

Also, the guy's head is fully in front of the window on the side the EMT is sitting. So you should have seen his reflection in this angle, otherwise, if the angle was larger, you would have seen the side of the ambulance itself. They could have cropped the picture to get that out, but then you wouldn't have a lot photo left.

Now if we look at the video, which has a different scenario, we can see the red guy is right next to the yellow one. On this picture I posted he is miles away. Here the only one who could have taken the picture in that angle with the red car parallel, is the red guy. Too bad he is holding a video camera though...

Yellow guy not at the window, ambulance backing out, red guy has a shot:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb01.png)

Yellow guy still not at the window, ambulance still backing out:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb02.png)

And in the video you can see the red guy stays at that window until the ambulance is parallel with the car and drives off. So even IF the yellow guy could have made a picture in the right angle, the red guy would have blocked the reflection of the car. So to me that means that the picture I posted first, was made the other d... uhhhm.

So while you're at it Mr. D. Advocate, could you please provide me with an explanation for this? ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 03, 2011, 05:20:16 AM
Remember these pictures..........???  Any ideas TS ???
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 05:22:30 AM
About the wall: I think I have determined where the wall exactly is, and it probably is indeed in perspective. But look at the car, it's not. So that means the car is not parallel with the wall, but in the video it is... Another thing is that the perspective of the wall is simply plain false, because it's flipped. The further away the object from the camera, the smaller it has to get. But in the ambulance pic it's getting bigger. Luckily chappie has a 'wall' as well, where you can clearly see how the wall in the ambulance picture should have been.

EDIT: just realized that this perspective of the wall is possible if the guy took the picture when the ambulance was backing out, yet then we still have the problem that the yellow guy wasn't at the window at that point, and that IF he had made the pic, the red guy would be in the way. Also the angle of the car makes no sense when you look at the wall. This picture is a mess (or my head is :lol: ).

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/ambwall.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/car700pers.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 05:39:05 AM
Oh btw TS.... I am sorry if I sound obsessed with numbers, but that's actually your fault, but when I went to bed you had 7 posts, when I woke up you had 11. That's either a nice detail, or I am crazy and just haunted by SevenEleven :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 03, 2011, 06:16:59 AM
Is it just my lack of knowledge, or are MJ's sideburns really long??  The seem to go right down passed his mouth.....?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 03, 2011, 06:18:46 AM
[youtube:28cvgvss]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:28cvgvss]

I think at 1:26-27, in a fraction of a second, I think I see the light is on inside the ambulance, in the left upper corner......
I'm not quite sure actually that is the light inside or a reflection of something from outside but the first impression is that there's the light inside, that meaning the pic could actually have benn captured pretty clear images from inside  :(
Yet, all I can see at 1:26 is more reflections, including the face of the guy who tries to block the image.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 03, 2011, 06:58:55 AM
Just a few close up comparisons........
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 03, 2011, 07:04:46 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.

MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.

Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 03, 2011, 09:31:45 AM
I do not but i think that photo was taken at another time not the day June 25, Ben was there to take the video that shows in the link, and I am not mad :lol:  i see, as I said in another post in minute 1:53 a person inside an ambulance with the face covered very similar to Michael

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae) ... d-10974241
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 09:32:44 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "bec"
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.

MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.

Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?

It's possible, but he did have a dummy and he had himself as well, so why bother?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 03, 2011, 10:16:22 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "bec"
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.

MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.

Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?

It's possible, but he did have a dummy and he had himself as well, so why bother?

Souza, I'm trying to analyse this without my hoax hat on, as TS has suggested, approaching it as if this is not a hoax and MJ is dead. So I'm exploring all the scenarios I can come up with that don't have MJ directing and controlling everything. Not losing faith you understand, just looking from different angles.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 03, 2011, 10:20:56 AM
If this was a murder, why would people bother to create a fake ambulance photo? They would kill him and there would be a real ambulance picture of him. There was no need to make an agreement with paps and make them take photos that day and the other d... ummm.

About non-believers I do not believe there's a single way to make them start seeing the truth. I personally tried so hard and understood that they closed all of their senses and they only believe what they see. But like TS wrote, if Michael's purpose was to let more people to understand that this is a hoax, he would have made it in a different way, gave more clues and made everything more obvious. But he wants to shock the world, so not too many people should be aware of the hoax. Such an amazing, PERFECT plan that fits with a perfectionist!

I was thinking about the red car and wondering if that car was a random one or was it staged? And why is it red if it was staged? I wonder if it has something to do with the Red color use in the cinematography? Red symbolizes vital energy but also red symbolizes savageness and evil. So the red car could be staged to mean Michael was thereatened by evil people but he has vital energy still, he is alive. Just a thought.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 03, 2011, 10:32:51 AM
maybe when ben refers to the other day he means fathers day. the day when michaeal was supposed to have talked to cherlyn lee and she told him to go to the hospital. is there a way to see if he did or did not go on that day?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 03, 2011, 10:44:26 AM
Is the red car definitely Ben's?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 03, 2011, 10:48:39 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.

MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.

Hmmm...a puzzle. Does one need bottomless resources, when liquid rubber costs a few bucks, and one is in cahoots  :o with someone who already owns two life like imprints of his image??

May be the times MJ had casts done of his face, for Thriller, or, for that computerized Body Scan he did in the 90s, eh?

The mask made from a cast created from the Thriller makeup people would have fooled MJ's own mom. 8-)

The one made from the computer image would have fooled MJ himself.  :o
 
The only real glitch I see with this, and it is a doozie, is that the Thriller period MJ doesn't look ANYTHING like the BAD period MJ, the one in the time window we have accepted (pretty much, yeah) as the time MJ started to plot this Hoax.... :?  :? Er, uh...


 :shock:


Also, on second thought, one dummy which would NOT be thought TOO out of place in an ambulance, would be a CPR or First Aid training dummy. We only see head and shoulders...
and with an authentic Michael Jackson MASK, and through hysterical fan tears, yeah, it works.

Practically anyone would ASSUME that the EMTs were new guys and were doing a complete rescue scenario, including timing and cramped moving vehicle experience.  :geek:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Terror2k10 on March 03, 2011, 11:36:04 AM
I don't know but he looks like a wax dummy,could it be one of these?
http://www.madametussauds.com/London/Ou ... fault.aspx (http://www.madametussauds.com/London/OurFigures/PopMusic/MichaelJAckson/Default.aspx)
I remember shortly after he died they showed some of madame tussauds work on new MJ king of pop dummies. These look so life like people get fooled here in N.Y when they see Samuel L. Jackson standing in front of the museum, they say wow its a wax figure. Ts said lets get different ideas out there.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: navibl on March 03, 2011, 12:02:01 PM
I have heard the statement many times...use the KISS method...which mean "Keep It Simple Stupid" HA! (not saying anyone is stupid here just just so you know)  :)  so I have to remind my self that sometimes I can get so caught up in the intricate details of the investigation that we over look the obvious.  I am sure many have come to the conclusion of why the photo is fake after seeing just two other photos.  The ones that did it for me are the picture of the bodyguard holding his hands up at the back of the ambulance and the guy on the side taking the picture.

A picture with the angle the body is lying in can only be taken from the side, not the back or we would see his feet.  The car refection would never be seen from the side angle because the ambulance was never paralel with the car to the point of giving a reflection and there would not have been enough room between the ambulance and the car for the guy to get a picture.
 
So different pics would have to be taken in order to layer the photo.  But does it really matter if they are taken on the same day or different days.  As to all the different reflections of faces, I ask myself, is TS trying to show us here how easly we can get distracted by things that are irrelevant and that detract from the real issue ... as in false flags, and how easy it is for things to be thrown in that take us completely off course of what is actually taking place?  Focus would be the key, and take the bulk of evidence we have to work with the big picture. Just  MHO...with LOVE
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 03, 2011, 12:54:31 PM
Quote
bec
Gina, if he did it for money, what's stopping the paramedics from saying, uh, that pic is fake. People who have no interest in keeping it quiet would know that it was fake. It's quite a famous pic. I highly doubt real emt's would say nothing at all about it in 20 months.
Yes that's one reasoning non-believers have is that if the death was all fake, that surely some of all the people involved would have squealed. It doesn't seem possible they could have kept it under wraps this long. I think it's lots of money and/or great love for MJ.
Quote
Souza
This picture is a mess (or my head is ).
It's like it's wrong in a thousand ways. :lol: It's actually probably a masterpiece!

Quote
Adi  
The thing I have circled in the ambo photo has niggled at me for ages. It seems to be where the headlight of the red car is...but it looks like it is something dangling out of the headlight socket...and it changes slighty in each of the 4 pics posted by TS.
I think it's some kind of emergency flash light sitting right where the car headlight reflection is. But a medical person would know accurately.
Quote
2good2btrue  
Is it just my lack of knowledge, or are MJ's sideburns really long?? The seem to go right down passed his mouth.....?
I was thinking they look extra thick and fuzzy--untrimmed. If MJ was sleeping in bed and this pic taken around noon the next day, you'd think he'd have a noticable beard stubble, yet his skin above his lip is smooth. No way the EMT or Murray shaved him first. Even if it was a dummy, you'd think they would have put a little "shadow". Again everything is inconsistant. [attachment=0:13de0imt]0104-michael-jackson-08-prelim-credit[1].jpg[/attachment:13de0imt]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 03, 2011, 01:43:06 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Oh, ItsHer, I also feel the Michael album has a lot to do with the hoax, if we have a hoax, even if I am not sure I'm only hearing the things I want to hear, maybe there aren't even there  :roll:

I am surprised of believers' lack of reaction in general to the meanings of the lyrics ......of course there were many who reacted but I think it's much more in the Michael album to discover...yet.....

Anyway, in my opinion Behind the mask is not related to the ambulance photo, but of course I might be wrong.

I've wondered about the lyrics since day one and thought at the release,
"there now, the world will see that he's alive from these lyrics".  But, no one is taking them literally.  To me, it's like opening Michael's diary.  Or having him hand us pages out of it that he WANTS us to read.  It's very personal and literal to ME.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 03, 2011, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "RK"
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.

Yes, "a lot" in the sense of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, who researched the hoax from the ambulance picture.  But the MAJORITY of people around the world, MILLIONS or even BILLIONS, who never think twice about what the media tells them--THEY bought the ambulance photo: hook, line, and sinker!  The hoax would NOT work if BILLIONS of people believed that it was a hoax; then nobody would be shocked when BAM comes!  Nobody would WAKE UP!!!

(Thanks, Andrea, you beat me to it!)

Agreeeeeeeeeeeed ! :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 03, 2011, 02:32:36 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
I am surprised of believers' lack of reaction in general to the meanings of the lyrics ......of course there were many who reacted but I think it's much more in the Michael album to discover...yet.....

I've wondered about the lyrics since day one and thought at the release,
"there now, the world will see that he's alive from these lyrics".  But, no one is taking them literally.  To me, it's like opening Michael's diary.  Or having him hand us pages out of it that he WANTS us to read.  It's very personal and literal to ME.

Same here.
Same applies to TII. It's all there.
I remember so well HOW MUCH I was smiling each time I watched it in cinema.
Many folks did not get to the messages and usually we stayed alone in the dark til the end.  :lol:  
I was so much enjoying this invitation to closeness and watching the person unfold and unveil all these talents just right in front of our noses.

These are very personal masterpieces just like his recent videos.
Just beautifully reaching out his hand.

Back to the picture:
This is something I wrote an eternity ago:
Quote
PostSubject: Re: Ambulance/Ben Evanstad slip up!   Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:53 pm   
This agency would hang around Michael every day since they wanted to be the one and only MJ picture agency.
So I do not put too much weight on him saying "the people that were hanging out there yesterday and the other day". They were there every day.

The agreement could be simply "a % provision in case of a good take" as would go in every photographer's contract for an agency. This is participation of the involved people after selling the pics to news agencies.
This is not getting my attention either.

But what struck me about Evenstad and Weiss is the fact that Weiss does have a paramedic licence and that Evenstad did take the picture from down Carolwood drive as a proof that Weiss did take the picture from the side window. [this I do not think anymore today]

Weiss would know how to set up a picture of a person inside an ambulance so he could play an important role in a fake picture.
Evenstad took the "proof of a picture shooting" - for which reason would a reporter get away from the center of interest to set up a proof of "we made it" when the scene is about to be a "hurry, we are busy" scene? What for? Evenstad himself said that to him it was not news as such that Michael would go to a hospital as he had been with Michael many times when he had to go to hospital. So what made the difference now that Evenstad felt the need of a proof "WE shot it"?

For this I imagine they were in it and did it on order of Michael.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t2322p25-ambulance-ben-evanstad-slip-up
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: navibl on March 03, 2011, 03:17:28 PM
The other thing I forgot to mention is the fact that when the ambulance came to a stop from backing up the trash cans were still visible to the side before pulling forward which means there is no way it was ever parallel with the car, otherwise the trash cans would not have been visible in the video from the back of the ambulance.   Also the picture of the car is taken at a downward angle, while the picture taken through the window was at an upward angle. ....Still marching!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 03, 2011, 04:13:21 PM
(http://www.vanityfair.com/images/culture/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo-0907-01.jpg)

I believe these pictures were a subliminal clue. These pictures were shown during Ben's interview. These show that Ben and Michael were/are friends, they show Michael behind a car/truck/van door (why?) they show how the picture can be done at an angle to show the reflection or not.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the red shirt guy was standing on the right side of the ambulance after it backed out of the driveway. The red shirt guy had plenty of time to angle his camera to get a shot inside.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Can someone find out what the patches look like for the real Paramedics ...

Here is the LAFD patch, worn by the paramedics in the ambulance photo: http://www.fireattire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FA&Product_Code=P-Off-Blk&Category_Code=P

Is that what you were looking for?
Yes it was. Thank you. I couldn't see the patches very well in the pictures posted in this thread. Of course the patches on the paramedics in the fake ambulance picture would match real ones (attention to detail) however I am wondering shouldn't they have another title added to the patches, like the wording paramedic? Also it is hard to know for sure what patches are correct because there is so many different ones according to these sites I found. Also what is the correct title? City, county...?
http://www.socalemsparamedics.com/ (http://www.socalemsparamedics.com/)
http://lafd.org/fs71.htm (http://lafd.org/fs71.htm)
http://fire.lacounty.gov/default.asp (http://fire.lacounty.gov/default.asp)

Quote
TS_comments wrote:
For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them! But actually, that is the way I want it.  :)
Quote
Thanks for sharing secrets. :mrgreen:
When I wrote that I almost was going to add "your", now I don't have to.
 THANKS!  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 03, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Gina, if he did it for money, what's stopping the paramedics from saying, uh, that pic is fake. People who have no interest in keeping it quiet would know that it was fake. It's quite a famous pic. I highly doubt real emt's would say nothing at all about it in 20 months.

Paramedics are more than likely bound by the same privacy/HIPAA laws as doctors, nurses, etc. That is why the real paramedics won't say anything about that day. They legally can't talk about a patient.  ;) They can speak about what happened that day in a court of law because they may have been given a subpoena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_ ... nformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_health_information)
Quote
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical record or payment history.
http://www.hipaa.org/ (http://www.hipaa.org/)
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/un ... index.html (http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/index.html)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 03, 2011, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
(http://www.vanityfair.com/images/culture/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo-0907-01.jpg)

I believe these pictures were a subliminal clue. These pictures were shown during Ben's interview. These show that Ben and Michael were/are friends, they show Michael behind a car/truck/van door (why?) they show how the picture can be done at an angle to show the reflection or not.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the red shirt guy was standing on the right side of the ambulance after it backed out of the driveway. The red shirt guy had plenty of time to angle his camera to get a shot inside.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Can someone find out what the patches look like for the real Paramedics ...

Here is the LAFD patch, worn by the paramedics in the ambulance photo: http://www.fireattire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FA&Product_Code=P-Off-Blk&Category_Code=P

Hey, we need to ask him how tall HE is!!!lol

Is that what you were looking for?
Yes it was. Thank you. I couldn't see the patches very well in the pictures posted in this thread. Of course the patches on the paramedics in the fake ambulance picture would match real ones (attention to detail) however I am wondering shouldn't they have another title added to the patches, like the wording paramedic? Also it is hard to know for sure what patches are correct because there is so many different ones according to these sites I found. Also what is the correct title? City, county...?
http://www.socalemsparamedics.com/ (http://www.socalemsparamedics.com/)
http://lafd.org/fs71.htm (http://lafd.org/fs71.htm)
http://fire.lacounty.gov/default.asp (http://fire.lacounty.gov/default.asp)

Quote
TS_comments wrote:
For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them! But actually, that is the way I want it.  :)
Quote
Thanks for sharing secrets. :mrgreen:
When I wrote that I almost was going to add "your", now I don't have to.
 THANKS!  ;)
we need to ask him how tall HE IS..lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 03, 2011, 07:10:13 PM
Quote
Report this postReply with quoteTIAI January 10
 SoldierofLOVE wrote:

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=17015&start=250#p292114

Re: Official General Prelim Discussion thread
by Serenitys_Dream » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:57 pm

If a real body was procured, in some way, then the paramedics are telling the truth about the events of that day therefore they would not be in on the hoax. It explains why they would not have recognized Michael (because it wasn't him) and why it would seem that he had been "down" for a lengthy amount of time (because the body would be from a previously deceased person).

If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.

If a real body was used, the reports by the other witnesses who were present in the house, may also be accurate from their point of view. Using a real body, would diminish the number of people involved in the hoax, the less people actually in on the hoax...the more successful it would be. Less people, means more control over how things unfold and less chances of someone revealing the hoax before intended.

Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.

How else would the hoax gain more attention, beyond the believers, who are already aware of it. It had to go "Global" as in the media reporting this hearing or nothing would progress further than it has, we would be at a standstill.

On another note, the admitting name supposedly used at UCLA was Shaun Soule. The reason given for this was to protect Michael's privacy and prevent a crush of people and media coming to UCLA. Well we know that didn't work, National Photo Group was at Michael's house so it was reported anyway. But if they used an alias when admitting Michael to the hospital, why did they use a completely different one on the blood samples obtained from the body?
They autopsy report tells us that the vials of blood were labelled as "Gershwin" and this was the blood used for the reported testing in the autopsy report.

There would have been no reason to use two different aliases, one for the patient and one for the patient's blood samples. The using of the Shaun Soule alias did not even come out until weeks after June 25, 2009 so the use of a different alias on the blood samples wasn't required to protect Michael Jackson's privacy. These blood samples were taken prior to any death having been pronounced and when resuscitation efforts were still ongoing.I would think that it is procedure to label blood and other fluid samples with the same name that a patient is admitted under so that these samples can be matched up with the right patient when results are obtained.

So there must be another reason why two different names would have been used.

Gershwin
George & Ira Gershwin - brothers, composer/pianist & lyricist." Porgy and Bess" is their most renowned Opera. There most popular song came from this Opera "It Ain't Necessarily So".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess)

It Ain't Necessarily So - It's not as it at first seems, It's fake, It's not true...it's a hoax.

Liza May Minnelli is an American singer and actress. She is the daughter of singer and actress Judy Garland (Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz) and film director Vincente Minnelli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli)

Liza Minnelli's godfather is IRA GERSHWIN.
http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333 (http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333)

Shaun - God's Gift
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
Anglicized form of SEÁN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun (http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun)

SEÁN - God Is Gracious
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
Irish form of JOHN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n (http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n)

JOHN - God Is Gracious, Merciful
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". This name owes its popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered saints. The first was John the Baptist, a Jewish ascetic who was considered the forerunner of Jesus Christ. The second was the apostle John, who was also traditionally regarded as the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation
http://www.behindthename.com/name/john (http://www.behindthename.com/name/john)


I remember this redirections about the bodies, the paramedicos said it was not recognized Michael, who thought in an old man, this is another proof of the falsehood of the photo of the ambulance, in that picture is not has an old man
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 03, 2011, 07:33:22 PM
@paula-c,

That is good info but, you might want to be careful posting anything Serenity wrote. She was quite pissed when she left the forum and she did say she was in the process of looking into legal measures to keep her work from being used.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
(http://www.vanityfair.com/images/culture/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo-0907-01.jpg)

I believe these pictures were a subliminal clue. These pictures were shown during Ben's interview. These show that Ben and Michael were/are friends, they show Michael behind a car/truck/van door (why?) they show how the picture can be done at an angle to show the reflection or not.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the red shirt guy was standing on the right side of the ambulance after it backed out of the driveway. The red shirt guy had plenty of time to angle his camera to get a shot inside.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Can someone find out what the patches look like for the real Paramedics ...

Here is the LAFD patch, worn by the paramedics in the ambulance photo: http://www.fireattire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FA&Product_Code=P-Off-Blk&Category_Code=P

Hey, we need to ask him how tall HE is!!!lol

Is that what you were looking for?
Yes it was. Thank you. I couldn't see the patches very well in the pictures posted in this thread. Of course the patches on the paramedics in the fake ambulance picture would match real ones (attention to detail) however I am wondering shouldn't they have another title added to the patches, like the wording paramedic? Also it is hard to know for sure what patches are correct because there is so many different ones according to these sites I found. Also what is the correct title? City, county...?
http://www.socalemsparamedics.com/ (http://www.socalemsparamedics.com/)
http://lafd.org/fs71.htm (http://lafd.org/fs71.htm)
http://fire.lacounty.gov/default.asp (http://fire.lacounty.gov/default.asp)

Quote
TS_comments wrote:
For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them! But actually, that is the way I want it.  :)
Quote
Thanks for sharing secrets. :mrgreen:
When I wrote that I almost was going to add "your", now I don't have to.
 THANKS!  ;)
we need to ask him how tall HE IS..lol
(http://ggirish.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/laughing-cat.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 07:49:58 PM
Again we have a lurking guest in this thread. You need some popcorn TS? I wish I could swap with you for a day, I'm sure it's hilarious at times looking at all this from your point of view. You sure aren't making it easy for us here. I'm glad I'm an excellent swimmer, I'll keep my head above water, but it sure is getting heavy. :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 03, 2011, 08:05:10 PM
I was thinking how could MJ know that on June 25th people not in the hoax might take photos? Those on the star tours could of hopped off and taken pictures and if they took pictures that had noone in the ambulance or had noone resembling MJ and Ben got the photo that he has now then people would know its fake.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 03, 2011, 08:08:04 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Again we have a lurking guest in this thread. You need some popcorn TS? I wish I could swap with you for a day, I'm sure it's hilarious at times looking at all this from your point of view. You sure aren't making it easy for us here. I'm glad I'm an excellent swimmer, I'll keep my head above water, but it sure is getting heavy. :lol:

Souzagirl..
How'd u know TS is lurking??  Did I miss his post of did YOU see him lurking??  I always seem to be missing TS
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 08:09:03 PM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
I was thinking how could MJ know that on June 25th people not in the hoax might take photos? Those on the star tours could of hopped off and taken pictures and if they took pictures that had noone in the ambulance or had noone resembling MJ and Ben got the photo that he has now then people would know its fake.
They had that covered. Bodyguard on the back, NPG at the side window. Besides that, we are debating wheter it's possible to take such a picture through the glass with an expensive lens, I am sure you wouldn't have seen shit when using your regular digital camera or cell phone.

Also, no one knew at that moment it was MJ. He has a lot of staff (well normally he has) and it could have been anyone.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Again we have a lurking guest in this thread. You need some popcorn TS? I wish I could swap with you for a day, I'm sure it's hilarious at times looking at all this from your point of view. You sure aren't making it easy for us here. I'm glad I'm an excellent swimmer, I'll keep my head above water, but it sure is getting heavy. :lol:

Souzagirl..
How'd u know TS is lurking??  Did I miss his post of did YOU see him lurking??  I always seem to be missing TS
No, it says 1 guest at the bottom. I addressed TS because he said he would sit back and watch us cracking our heads over this so it might be him.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 03, 2011, 08:22:16 PM
Is there anyway we can seperate the inside of the ambulance from the reflection?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 03, 2011, 08:25:55 PM
Quote
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:

@paula-c,

That is good info but, you might want to be careful posting anything Serenity wrote. She was quite pissed when she left the forum and she did say she was in the process of looking into legal measures to keep her work from being used.

Peace

I am sorry not to know that SD said that, in fact thinking in the redirections of TS
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:

@paula-c,

That is good info but, you might want to be careful posting anything Serenity wrote. She was quite pissed when she left the forum and she did say she was in the process of looking into legal measures to keep her work from being used.

Peace

I am sorry not to know that SD said that, in fact thinking in the redirections of TS

It's no problem paula. As long as it is posted on this forum, you can quote, copy and paste as much as you want, from any member.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 03, 2011, 09:39:11 PM
Seventeen pages later...and it is STILL WHAT IT IS.

That in itself is pretty damn funny!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Seventeen pages later...and it is STILL WHAT IT IS.

That in itself is pretty damn funny!

If you don't have anything to contribute to this discussion, just skip it would ya?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: angel on March 03, 2011, 09:59:00 PM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
I am wondering if the red car matters in the hoax, was it staged or was it just some random car of some random person?

Same here.  I am also wondering if Ben left it running, like Dr. Nick with the green Mercedes. Lol. ;)
I keep thinking about the Elvis connection along with some of the comments about the wax dummy.  Like MJonmind said, "Why would he even NEED a dummy?", yet I think there is a possibility he would use one based on doing so many other things like Elvis, or rather as Elvis did in theory.  I don't think there was an ambulance photo taken of Elvis, but there was the infamous "coffin picture" sold to the National Enquirer.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: "angel"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
I am wondering if the red car matters in the hoax, was it staged or was it just some random car of some random person?

Same here.  I am also wondering if Ben left it running, like Dr. Nick with the green Mercedes. Lol. ;)
I keep thinking about the Elvis connection along with some of the comments about the wax dummy.  Like MJonmind said, "Why would he even NEED a dummy?", yet I think there is a possibility he would use one based on doing so many other things like Elvis, or rather as Elvis did in theory.  I don't think there was an ambulance photo taken of Elvis, but there was the infamous "coffin picture" sold to the National Enquirer.
Ah, that's a good point. In that case I do see a dummy being used.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 03, 2011, 10:09:12 PM
angel, that makes sense to me. We've seen the Elvis/MJ parallels all along. And as this is "the visual evidence" of death ,the dummy does fit with the scenario.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 03, 2011, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here.  :D

Chappie came with the same, but we both couldn't make anything off of it...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 04, 2011, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
(http://www.vanityfair.com/images/culture/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo-0907-01.jpg)

I believe these pictures were a subliminal clue. These pictures were shown during Ben's interview. These show that Ben and Michael were/are friends, they show Michael behind a car/truck/van door (why?) they show how the picture can be done at an angle to show the reflection or not.


Maybe you are right. See Michael in these pictures, his eyes look like he's laughing inside, or is it my impression, in fact it's not laughing but something else that I can't define...... who would expect Michael to be friend with a representative of the profession he never liked - paparazzi  :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 04, 2011, 12:27:29 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here.  :D

Chappie came with the same, but we both couldn't make anything off of it...
Could it be saying, "SOULE" ? As in the Shaun Soule alias name for MJ at the hospital.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 04, 2011, 12:47:09 AM
Quote from: ~Souza~
So while you're at it Mr. D. Advocate, could you please provide me with an explanation for this? ;)

Okay, Souza, I will give it my best shot.   ;)   

I will be responding to things in both of your two comments here: {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=375#p309940 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=375#p309940); and http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309083&#p309083 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309083&#p309083)}.

First, the red shirt pap has the still camera, not the yellow shirt.  There are several ways to document this; probably the easiest is at 0:18 in this clip, you see the red shirt guy reflected—but he is not the one running the video camera, he is too far away and not pointing at the window.  {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk)}

Second, about the red shirt pap in this picture.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/4_proof_pic.jpg)

He is not actually straight behind the ambulance at that time; rather, he is closer to the camera (taking that picture), near the front of the red car (which you can barely see in that same still picture).  It’s true that you can’t see him clearly in the two videos of the ambulance backing out; but that is because both of those videos are blocked, by the ambulance, from seeing the red shirt guy (on the other side of the ambulance).  Actually, in the tour bus video, you can see the red shirt pap in the correct area for just a split second {see the picture below, with the added red arrow; and see this video, at 0:39; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx8KrGIQ5mg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx8KrGIQ5mg)}.

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/RedShirtPap.jpg)

Third, about the angle of the reflection and car and wall, etc. 

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb02.png)

You said “Right angle, clear shot but car can't be in the reflection”; but why not?  Can you document it somehow?  Keep in mind that the angle of reflection equals the angle of incidence {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_(physics) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_(physics))}; and as I mentioned before, the two angles could cancel each other, leaving the appearance that the red car was parallel with the ambulance when it was not really parallel.

In that case, the top of the wall would go downward across the picture, as it goes farther away from the front of the red car.  Remember that the background image is mirrored.  If you were inside the ambulance looking out the window (with the ambulance angled the way it is in amb02.png, above), you would see the wall getting farther away to the left (in front of the red car); but if you mirror that same image, the wall would go lower and farther away to the right (and still in front of the red car).  This is exactly what we see in the ambulance photo.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I made a mirrored still shot from the wall video.  You can see the curb is parallel with the bottom of the picture, just like the ambulance photo; and you can also see that the top of the wall goes downward (farther away) to the right of the picture, just like the ambulance photo.

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/WallReflection.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

That should be enough to keep you out of trouble for a day or two!   :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 04, 2011, 01:03:13 AM
 :lol: :lol: :lol:

(http://www.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/smart_ass_webdesign.jpg)

Okay Mr. D. Advocate, but I'm in because I know I am right somewhere, even though you are VERY good at making me doubt but this is actually quite fun. I agree though that the guy is not behind the ambulance and I already edited my post on the flipped perspective <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->

To be continued...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 04, 2011, 02:27:05 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here.  :D

Chappie came with the same, but we both couldn't make anything off of it...

The top line appears to me to say: "a day off", which is kind of really dry humor--because of, what we call a day off from work here in the states, "a sick day" (uh, YEAH--in an AMBULANCE, I'd say so!) or "a snow day"(whether there is five feet of snow on the roads or not! ;) )---which is REALLY funny and MJ-esque, because "snow" also means to fool people, and he IS "snowing" the world with this hoax!  :o :lol:

The next word looks like, "by" and I can't make anything out of the third word or intitials.

Perhaps MJ is writing a companion book The size of War And Peace ( :!: ) to his movie, and one of the chapter titles is: "A Day Off" :P  [MJ, I REALLY like the overt, "Snow Day" better. :lol:  :lol:  8-) JMHO]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 04, 2011, 02:57:27 AM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
Report this postReply with quoteTIAI January 10
 SoldierofLOVE wrote:

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=17015&start=250#p292114

Re: Official General Prelim Discussion thread
by Serenitys_Dream » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:57 pm

If a real body was procured, in some way, then the paramedics are telling the truth about the events of that day therefore they would not be in on the hoax. It explains why they would not have recognized Michael (because it wasn't him) and why it would seem that he had been "down" for a lengthy amount of time (because the body would be from a previously deceased person).

If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.

If a real body was used, the reports by the other witnesses who were present in the house, may also be accurate from their point of view. Using a real body, would diminish the number of people involved in the hoax, the less people actually in on the hoax...the more successful it would be. Less people, means more control over how things unfold and less chances of someone revealing the hoax before intended.

Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.

How else would the hoax gain more attention, beyond the believers, who are already aware of it. It had to go "Global" as in the media reporting this hearing or nothing would progress further than it has, we would be at a standstill.

On another note, the admitting name supposedly used at UCLA was Shaun Soule. The reason given for this was to protect Michael's privacy and prevent a crush of people and media coming to UCLA. Well we know that didn't work, National Photo Group was at Michael's house so it was reported anyway. But if they used an alias when admitting Michael to the hospital, why did they use a completely different one on the blood samples obtained from the body?
They autopsy report tells us that the vials of blood were labelled as "Gershwin" and this was the blood used for the reported testing in the autopsy report.

There would have been no reason to use two different aliases, one for the patient and one for the patient's blood samples. The using of the Shaun Soule alias did not even come out until weeks after June 25, 2009 so the use of a different alias on the blood samples wasn't required to protect Michael Jackson's privacy. These blood samples were taken prior to any death having been pronounced and when resuscitation efforts were still ongoing.I would think that it is procedure to label blood and other fluid samples with the same name that a patient is admitted under so that these samples can be matched up with the right patient when results are obtained.

So there must be another reason why two different names would have been used.

Gershwin
George & Ira Gershwin - brothers, composer/pianist & lyricist." Porgy and Bess" is their most renowned Opera. There most popular song came from this Opera "It Ain't Necessarily So".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess)

It Ain't Necessarily So - It's not as it at first seems, It's fake, It's not true...it's a hoax.

Liza May Minnelli is an American singer and actress. She is the daughter of singer and actress Judy Garland (Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz) and film director Vincente Minnelli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli)

Liza Minnelli's godfather is IRA GERSHWIN.
http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333 (http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333)

Shaun - God's Gift
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
Anglicized form of SEÁN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun (http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun)

SEÁN - God Is Gracious
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
Irish form of JOHN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n (http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n)

JOHN - God Is Gracious, Merciful
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". This name owes its popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered saints. The first was John the Baptist, a Jewish ascetic who was considered the forerunner of Jesus Christ. The second was the apostle John, who was also traditionally regarded as the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation
http://www.behindthename.com/name/john (http://www.behindthename.com/name/john)


I remember this redirections about the bodies, the paramedicos said it was not recognized Michael, who thought in an old man, this is another proof of the falsehood of the photo of the ambulance, in that picture is not has an old man

Just guessing, but the two aliases, one for admittance to hospital and one on the bloodwork, is, IMO, just another doubles/twins reference; more likely referring to a double having to sub for the real MJ---ALTHOUGH...if this hoax has any more parallels to Elvis we will all have to scream...reminder, Elvis was a twin(, too).

I totally beLIEve the explanation for the "Gershwin" name, because, "it AIN'T necessarily so"....none of it!  :lol: But the "Shaun Soule" alias, I think is simpler.

Rather than use something as common as "John Smith" or "John Doe", making the statement that the guy could be ANYbody, MJ always has to puzzle it up. "Shaun/John", yeah, but, instead of even saying "John Human" (too obvious; no one would be named that; it screams: "FAKER"), he chose, "Soule" (or Soul), a term higher than simply a human "being"...

A term the Bible uses to impart pricelessness and deep value to each human. This, we know to be a strong sentiment demonstrated by certain MJ actions and lyrics. It is part of him, his core beliefs, and I don't think it was meant to be funny; it is one of the more sober statements of Truth in this Hoax Message, I believe, with all my heart. 8-)
 
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 04, 2011, 03:15:50 AM
The guy in the yellow shirt took a few photos, but maybe he caught only reflections from the outside - the red car, the wall etc.
But they had to sell a 1 million $ photo so ......they edited the original photos, adding the scene with MJ and paramedics over the original one.
Of course this scenario can be only the result of my imagination  :? .

Yet, I think it is a fact that he took a few photos, like we see in the video - so they had a set of original photos. That's why we see the red car and the wall and other parts of the outside in the "final products"  - I mean the photos that are keeping us busy for a week now.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paulnotpeter on March 04, 2011, 07:12:37 AM
This is the screenshot I was talking about. It's for Ambulance2. What do you see? A word? An anagram?  :?:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 04, 2011, 08:16:49 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here.  :D

Chappie came with the same, but we both couldn't make anything off of it...

I don´t see a whole word, just a single letter.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 04, 2011, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
This is the screenshot I was talking about. It's for Ambulance2. What do you see? A word? An anagram?  :?:
When I squint I see from left to right MJ faces, dance silouettes of MJ, then a rabbit  face in the center then as it gets darker  at the end there are what appears to me to be initials TS.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 04, 2011, 12:32:00 PM
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/thelord3003/amb1.jpg)

I still see...a face!  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 04, 2011, 12:42:03 PM
Did you invert?

Yeah....... you can SEE [ahhh typos!] a lot of potential weird and scary stuff from that.
Actually it looks rather Salvador Dali'ish. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 04, 2011, 12:44:19 PM
Quote
paulnotpeter
 I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see.
I give up.  What do you think it's saying?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 04, 2011, 12:45:22 PM
Yambo, now it looks like one of these:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/theatermasks.jpg)

Theater masks...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 04, 2011, 12:51:45 PM
More specifically, the comedy mask, Thalia.

Quote
The twin genres represented by the masks are both intended to serve as a form of catharsis. Comedy acts to deflate our preconceived notions and remind us how foolish we truly are, while tragedy permits us to grapple with dark realities such as death and failure in a safe context. Though tragedy is today considered the more "artistic" genre, the Greeks actually revered comedy more highly. The symbolic linking of the two with the masks emphasizes both their common roots as drama and the complex depth of human experience.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5033201_meani ... z1FZXUvhCV (http://www.ehow.com/about_5033201_meaning-comedy-tragedy-masks.html#ixzz1FZXUvhCV)

Quote
"Comedy Tragedy" masks are used now as a universal symbol for drama
http://www.carnaval.com/mask/birthofmasks.htm (http://www.carnaval.com/mask/birthofmasks.htm)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 04, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
I know I now see and profile of a face kissing Michael...which used to be a medics hand...lol
among a lot of other "things".
Yeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 04, 2011, 12:57:09 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Yambo, now it looks like one of these:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/theatermasks.jpg)

Theater masks...


 i know right! It's an enigma.  :lol:

(http://www.vectorstock.com/assets/preview/74200/theater-mask-vector.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 04, 2011, 12:57:58 PM
Hey! We should invert that one that supposedly shows Michael getting out of the ambulance at Carolwood ....that might be entertaining errrr.... interesting :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 04, 2011, 01:13:20 PM
Sorry but as hard as I try I don't see a word or letters there....maybe a T, but I'm not sure either....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 04, 2011, 01:16:39 PM
Yeah Gina...I'm not EVEN going there....it looks like a blurred out piece of parchment paper to me with some blurry magic marker scribs.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 04, 2011, 01:21:38 PM
TS, you seem to be trying to convince us that everything's real, angles possible and matching that day, playing DA, but are we still supposed to find some detail proving it's still fake?  I don't think that red shirt photographer's face looks anything like Ben. And how did no one else hanging around not get caught in the reflection? Awfully lucky shot.

Also wondering if the leaves are coming from a secondary reflection from the front clear window onto a glass door cover inside the ambulance (perhaps a glass/plastic cover opposite side to the one shown in the pic top left corner. These would be leaves coming from the other side of the vehicle.
[attachment=0:1cbzhxvu]Ambulance2[1].jpg[/attachment:1cbzhxvu]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 04, 2011, 01:49:37 PM
Don't torture your eyes more than necessary.
Not all pictures were so messed up.
We got indeed used to some blurry foggy somethingie pictures in the course of time, and each time this was meant for hiding, however, blurry foggy somethingie pictures are giving not half of the truth.

The original ET online exclusive HD picture is TS_comment's picture #4, just slightly clearer.

[attachment=2:1uru2q83]ambulance_ET_Online_HD.jpg[/attachment:1uru2q83]

The original ET online exclusive picture is TS_comment's picture #2, just slightly clearer.

[attachment=1:1uru2q83]ambulance_ET_online_.jpg[/attachment:1uru2q83]

Conclusion: ET online did dispose of at least two pictures not one.

And this is picture #5:
[attachment=0:1uru2q83]ambulancepic.jpg[/attachment:1uru2q83]

 ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 04, 2011, 01:53:49 PM
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

A long shot:
Like when we see faces in the clouds, that leaf-pattern could look like the face of a man who is asleep, reminding me of Morpheus, the god of dreams in greek mythology.

Just as a coincidence, His legacy is Morphine, named after him and found in most medical works.

Son of HYPNOS and PASITHEA, MORPHEUS is also the nephew of THANATOS, the God of Death.
probably means nothing, but I thought it was interesting
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 04, 2011, 01:58:55 PM
this photo is not part of any evidence in the trial is it?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on March 04, 2011, 02:10:30 PM
hmmm, how come the leaf/sunlight/shadow pattern as well as the red car suddenly disappears on the photo in one place only, which surprisingly is the center of interest i.e. the face and chest of MJ?

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 04, 2011, 02:17:57 PM
I feel like a rat in a maze looking for cheese.  Obviously the pics are faked/altered or this thread would not have been started.  It also appears that there something very specific we are missing in the photos.  But again, the rat is lost and is just hiding in a corner dazed and confused.   However, I finally found 2 whole people outside of here that think MJ is alive!  I quickly referred them to here. WEEE!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paulnotpeter on March 04, 2011, 02:22:34 PM
The "word" I see makes no sense, that's why I considered the possibility it was an anagram. But if everyone is seeing different things or nothing at all then this is most likely a dead end. This is what I see, either: "TRUT:GS!!" or "YRUT:GS!!" TS hasn't addressed this so it's probably just another case of the mind finding order in chaos, faces in clouds, etc.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 04, 2011, 02:27:02 PM
Maybe we should call Robert Langdon. He might help with the hidden word!  :lol:

(http://www.johnlangdon.net/gallery/earthairfirewater.gif)

I don't think we are gonna find a word. It's too complex. We should head another road...just saying!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on March 04, 2011, 06:10:20 PM
To die will be an awfully big adventure.
J.M. BARRIE, Peter Pan

Call it what you want....everyone is seeing something else in the picture.
But I was thinking all the time....I know that face.

Who is connected with leaves?
Peter Pan?
Barrie never described Peter's appearance in detail, even in the novel "Peter and Wendy", leaving much of it to the imagination of the reader and the interpretation of anyone adapting the character. Barrie mentions in "Peter and Wendy" that Peter Pan still had all of his baby teeth. He describes him as a beautiful boy with a beautiful smile, "clad in skeleton leaves and the juices that flow from trees". In the play, Peter's outfit is made of autumn leaves and cobwebs. His name and playing the flute vaguely suggest the mythological character Pan.

So where does the name Peter Pan comes from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god))
Still looking for the whistleblower..... ;)
Of de rattenvanger van Hamelen.... :evil:
Chappie
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 04, 2011, 06:30:29 PM
I'd say MJ's biggest adventure to date.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 04, 2011, 07:06:07 PM
I prefer the clearer pictures on the previous page.

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=425 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=425)


Quote from: "Grace"
Don't torture your eyes more than necessary.
Not all pictures were so messed up.
We got indeed used to some blurry foggy somethingie pictures in the course of time, and each time this was meant for hiding, however, blurry foggy somethingie pictures are giving not half of the truth.

The original ET online exclusive HD picture is TS_comment's picture #4, just slightly clearer.

[attachment=2:1npcbb6e]ambulance_ET_Online_HD.jpg[/attachment:1npcbb6e]

The original ET online exclusive picture is TS_comment's picture
 #2, just slightly clearer.

[attachment=1:1npcbb6e]ambulance_ET_online_.jpg[/attachment:1npcbb6e]

Conclusion: ET online did dispose of at least two pictures not one.

And this is picture #5:
[attachment=0:1npcbb6e]ambulancepic.jpg[/attachment:1npcbb6e]

 ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 04, 2011, 07:15:46 PM
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

These are a waste of time IMO.
Has anyone ever considered that the red in these pic's are the reflection of the picture takers  T shirt...and the "leaves" are a reflection of the background in the window?

It isn't rocket science.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 04, 2011, 07:17:29 PM
8-)
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38)
There are more similarities than not when comparing the deaths. The link above is to a page specifically regarding Elvis' death report and autopsy. There are more similarities regarding the deaths like rumours about Elvis wanting to trade places with a terminally ill man (letting him die in Elvis' place and he is the one the autopsy was done on) Elvis running off with a woman, etc. Even Elvis/Jesse isn't immune when it comes to Tabloid stories, people making money off his death, etc.  

http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page53 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page53)
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/ENLARGEDPEOPLEARTICLE.jpg)

I would bet my life on this: I have read almost verbatum these same kind of theories here on this forum about Michael. These are two different men and many years apart from their deaths but Human Nature is still the same.  8-)

I am throwing this idea out there regarding the picture of the ambulance and whether the red car, yellow shirt guy, red shirt guy, etc. would reflect off the window. I wonder IF the pics needed for the layers over the original dummy pic were even taken on that day?

What IF the day of death the paps only PRETENDED to take pics and they had all the pics they needed from the other day? They already Photoshopped what they needed for the sale to E.T. Practice makes perfect and in a real life situation there isn't much time for practice but in a dry run "the other day" there is lots of time to make the pics they wanted. They being Michael and the paps he has the agreement with.

Things that make me say Hmmm?
;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 04, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 04, 2011, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
8-)
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38)
There are more similarities than not when comparing the deaths. The link above is to a page specifically regarding Elvis' death report and autopsy. There are more similarities regarding the deaths like rumours about Elvis wanting to trade places with a terminally ill man (letting him die in Elvis' place and he is the one the autopsy was done on) Elvis running off with a woman, etc. Even Elvis/Jesse isn't immune when it comes to Tabloid stories, people making money off his death, etc.  

http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page53 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page53)
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/ENLARGEDPEOPLEARTICLE.jpg)

I would bet my life on this: I have read almost verbatum these same kind of theories here on this forum about Michael. These are two different men and many years apart from their deaths but Human Nature is still the same.  8-)

I am throwing this idea out there regarding the picture of the ambulance and whether the red car, yellow shirt guy, red shirt guy, etc. would reflect off the window. I wonder IF the pics needed for the layers over the original dummy pic were even taken on that day?

What IF the day of death the paps only PRETENDED to take pics and they had all the pics they needed from the other day? They already Photoshopped what they needed for the sale to E.T. Practice makes perfect and in a real life situation there isn't much time for practice but in a dry run "the other day" there is lots of time to make the pics they wanted. They being Michael and the paps he has the agreement with.

Things that make me say Hmmm?
;)
Something about this that sorta creeps me out is that, I came up with that whole idea about Michael trading places with someone terminal and letting him live in his home, without ever one time ever hearing about the Elvis thing!  WEIRD..to me.  I know I've even written on this site about it an eternity ago.  Not that others haven't thought it also, but, it came into MY mind on MY own.  I remember getting that whole thought line.  
Now, after such a long time researching, I have holes in that scenario that I wonder if that could've happened.  But, also, I wonder because of the tabloid printing Michael'd die in 6 months, and that could lead to someone with just months to live, ironic though, that it was 6 months.
Anyhow, thanks for the article.  VERY interesting.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 04, 2011, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: "RK"
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
This is the screenshot I was talking about. It's for Ambulance2. What do you see? A word? An anagram?  :?:
When I squint I see from left to right MJ faces, dance silouettes of MJ, then a rabbit  face in the center then as it gets darker  at the end there are what appears to me to be initials TS.
RK, I see all this TOO :!: , except, I don't see any rabbit ears. I see a "Manfred" dog. I thought I was seeing things!! :D  It really does look like MJ in like a stop motion, or deleted frames movie---the kind one makes up on pages and then fans the pages to "make him go", only with some pages missing, OR something one would see with only a strobe light on a dancing MJ. I was SURE I was just forcing the vision.

@paulnotpeter,

I do not see all the letters you see, squinting or not, enlarged or minimized, high contrast or not. Maybe a T. Maybe a J. Maybe a G orT S. No colon, at least not where you place it.

Just these letters, though could mean: "Truth Justice, Go : (to) The Source". I am reeeeally reaching, but the statement is a true statement. God is the only one powerful enough to distribute real Justice. He is the only one who knows what hides in peoples' hearts.

Geez, I hope this isn't some kind of a Rorschach test. :o  :o I can't remember if one is  diagnosed "normal" or "psycho" from seeing a bunny or a chicken!  What does seeing Michael Jackson dancing in strobe light, and cryptic letters mean??  :shock:  :lol:  
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 04, 2011, 08:57:34 PM
BTW, Mighty Manfred, the wonder dog, belonged to Tom Terrific, who could spin like a Tornado and turn himself into anything. Trained for success by cartoons ;) , MJ?

 8-)  :!:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 04, 2011, 09:52:47 PM
My apologies if this was answered already and we have moved on in the discussion, but after 17 pages I'm confused if we ever determined the answer to the original question.
Quote from: "TS_comments"
This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)

The image appears to be at the same opacity as the secondary image (red car). ^^TS kindly even placed them in order.

My answer to the original topic question is #1 and #3. It looks like the face/leaves image was added to one original reflection pic that was taken outside Carrolwood house on 6/25, during the now famous ambulance backing out scene.

That one original pic was layered as different % opacity levels over these (3) pics of the staged ambulance interior scene. The face image was cropped out of the tabloid headline version. At some point after 6/25/09, these 3 full frame versions were found online. I'd love to know how exactly that happened but it was on the forum, someone posted a full version on a thread just like we are doing now... and then someone else posts it on another thread, and then it's requoted and reposted and blogged all over and then wait... they aren't the same pic...

What this means is that these photographers are certainly working for MJ. Didn't they also get the UCLA stretcher pics?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on March 04, 2011, 09:57:24 PM
Quote from: "RK"
angel, that makes sense to me. We've seen the Elvis/MJ parallels all along. And as this is "the visual evidence" of death ,the dummy does fit with the scenario.

I wonder if people questioned this photo of Elvis in the casket as much as Michael's photo?  I never thought this could be Elvis...too young:
http://members.fortunecity.com/sivlenor ... quirer.jpg (http://members.fortunecity.com/sivlenoramoran/elvis_enquirer.jpg)

Blessings Always!

PS> yes, this was a real tabloid headline/photo.....I do remember it, cough, cough, I was very young, lol! ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 04, 2011, 10:00:37 PM
Isn't this supposed to be the guy that died in the place of MJ??  I heard he had plastic surgery to look more like MJ, and he may have gone bald after alot of chemo..???
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 04, 2011, 10:01:03 PM
@it's her...if big brother is watching and deems we are certifiable, we can share a room and straight jackets.  :?  It feels SO good not to be all alone. :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 05, 2011, 12:26:30 AM
Quote
These are a waste of time IMO.
Has anyone ever considered that the red in these pic's are the reflection of the picture takers T shirt...and the "leaves" are a reflection of the background in the window?

It isn't rocket science.

And That^^^ is my final answer to #1 #2 abs #3 ....Alex.


Quote
@it's her...if big brother is watching and deems we are certifiable, we can share a room and straight jackets. :? It feels SO good not to be all alone. :lol:

TOO FUNNY!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 05, 2011, 02:00:39 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Isn't this supposed to be the guy that died in the place of MJ??  I heard he had plastic surgery to look more like MJ, and he may have gone bald after alot of chemo..???

Where did you find this?!?!?!!?
I heard that story about a romanian who some said died instead of Michael but looked too much like fiction.
The eyebrows and the eyes....scary....looks like Michael's or I'm seeing things :shock:

The eyes...Michael's eyes are round and big.....but sometimes, in some pictures, Michael's eyes are smaller, not so prominent, like this guy's eyes........Could this be true ........

In a strange way this Dimitri looks sooooo familiar :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 05, 2011, 02:17:44 AM
Noooo, can't be true....it looks familiar because he looks like that actor what's his name...Charlie or smth..... maybe it is even him....

People create such crazy stories..... who's crazu enough to have a terminal illness and change places with MJ? This is fiction already
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 05, 2011, 02:48:40 AM
It seems we're going round in circles here, people are bringing things up that I'm sure have been discussed already somewhere in these 19 pages!!

I'm not sure if the general concensus at this point is that the ambulance pic could or could not have been taken through the window on 25th June. To be be honest I'm very confused and finding it very hard to follow. Maybe we should be looking at other 'details', rather than mysterious faces/leaves/reflections etc.

Maybe we've been looking at details while ignoring the blatantly obvious!


TS, why are you apparently ignoring the blatantly obvious and sending us on wild goose chases with aforementioned faces, leaves and reflections?! Can't we practise our investigative skills on 'the elephant in the room'?

There are 3 people in the photo, supposedly a dead or dying MJ and 2 paramedics. Would it be more sensible to assess this aspect in trying to discover the reality or not of the ambulance pic?

Conveniently we can't see the paramedics' faces! We only have a half head back view of one of them. Is it possible to ascertain if this was one of the paramedics who gave evidence in the prelim? Again, conveniently, only two were called to give evidence when apparently there were 3 altogether. Why did they not question the third? Where did the idea that one was black originate? Do we know anyone trustworthy who was in court and could give us descriptions of the paramedic witnesses?

And all this before we even get to ask the million dollar question - is that really MJ in the pic??!!

Sorry if I sound like I'm going over old ground, just trying to look with objective, non hoaxy eyes! Just ignore me!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 05, 2011, 03:45:06 AM
Just an off the wall thought I had is that visually as a composite picture, it looks like MJ has been transformed into the hood of the car, like a Transformer, and leaves are growing out of it showing it's alive (or is it an antenna). The red car is a "Speed Demon" and he is going places.[attachment=0:kmgv4971]Ambulance1[1].jpg[/attachment:kmgv4971]

Quote
Speed Demon lyrics
I'm Headed For The Border
It's On My Mind
And Nothin' Really Matters
I've Got To Be On Time
Look In The View Mirror
Is He Hot On My Tracks
Is He Getting Nearer
I Feel Some Heat Is On
My Back

(Speed Demon)
Speedin' On The Freeway
Gotta Get A Leadway
(Speed Demon)
Doin' It On The Highway
Gotta Have It My Way
(Speed Demon)
Mind Is Like A Compass
I'm Stoppin' At Nothin'
(Speed Demon)
(He Say) Pull Over Boy And
Get Your Ticket Right . . .

And Nothin' Gonna Stop Me
Ain't No Stop And Go
I'm Speedin' On The Midway
I Gotta Really Burn This Road

(Speed Demon)
Speedin' On The Freeway
Gotta Get The Leadway
(Speed Demon)
Doin' It On The Highway
Gotta Have It My Way
(Speed Demon)
Mind Is Like A Compass
I'm Stoppin' At Nothin'
(Speed Demon)
(He Say) Pull Over Boy And
Get Your Ticket Right . . .

Speed Demon, You're The
Very Same One
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/m/michael-j ... yrics.html (http://www.elyrics.net/read/m/michael-jackson-lyrics/speed-demon-lyrics.html) ]
Who Said The Future's In
Your Hands
The Life You Save Could Be
Your Own
You're Preachin' 'Bout My
Life Like You're The Law
Gonna Live Each Day And
Hour Like
For Me There's No Tomorrow

Go! Go! Go! Aaow!

(Speed Demon)
Speedin' On The Freeway
Gotta Get A Leadway
(Speed Demon)
Got Fire In My Pocket
I Just Lit A Rocket
(Speed Demon)
Just Pull Over Boy
And Get Your Ticket Right
(Speed Demon)
Pull Over Boy And
Get Your Ticket Right
(Speed Demon)
Just, Pull Over Boy
And Eat Your Ticket
Pull Over Boy
Pull Over Boy
And Get Your Ticket Right
Ugh!
Aaow!
Uhh!
Hoo!
Get Your Ticket Right
Pull Over Boy-Get
Your Ticket Right
Pull Over Boy And
Get Your Ticket Right
Pull Over Boy
Pull Over Boy And
Get Your Ticket
Eat Your Ticket
Get Your Ticket
Eat Yo', Get Yo', Hoo! Aaow!
Get Your Ticket Right
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 05, 2011, 04:29:14 AM
Bec mentioned in passing that the sunlight reflecting off the red car and hitting MJ's head resembled a crown of fire. I saw this to be so while fiddling around with the contrast /colour and it does look like a mitre of fire. Could this be the purpose of the red car then? To reflect red light and direct us to the pepsi fire and that MJ had been baptised in fire? Is there an add lib line in TDRCAU "They dipped me in fire"?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on March 05, 2011, 05:15:54 AM
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
This is the screenshot I was talking about. It's for Ambulance2. What do you see? A word? An anagram?  :?:

Watching the screenshot from a 2m distance - no I'm not farsighted (or nearsighted) :lol: - and I read ARMY :shock: ARMY OF LOVE perhaps :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 05, 2011, 05:31:10 AM
Quote from: "RK"
@it's her...if big brother is watching and deems we are certifiable, we can share a room and straight jackets.  :?  It feels SO good not to be all alone. :lol:

 :D  :!:  EXACTLY my thoughts! It was so good to see that I wasn't seeing things by myself!  We saw almost exactly, the same items, especially the MJ dancing. His form is unmistakeable; we've seen him so much---but WHAT is he doing on a rotated design of a supposedly natural leaf arrangement from outside, against a wall????????  :?:   :shock:  

I saw a B&W movie, a zillion years ago, once, with Anne Baxter, which was an O Henry story, about a sick, bedridden gal who kept looking out the window at leaves against a wall on a vine, or tree. She said to herself that when the last  leaf dropped, she would die, too.

But, something funny happened. The very last little leaf hung on and hung on and hung on, and she received strength inside herself, to persevere, too. She began to believe in herself, just from that leaf's example of tenacity.  ;)

(The end of this movie was hair raising, as a kid! :o Spoiler alert!)

Finally she got out of bed and went on to do her life, healthy, and the camera goes looking over her empty bed, to the wall outside the window. The wind is blowing furiously, and the real vine breaks free of the last little leaf. But the last leaf STAYS on the wall :o , for it has been PAINTED on the wall by the gardener or some one who loved the girl, Anne B.'s character!

It is not what appears to be; it is what we beLIEve!!

I don't know why I thought of that...I will probably get those ankle restraints, now, too, eh? :?


 :P
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on March 05, 2011, 06:56:25 AM
Quote from: "bec"
My apologies if this was answered already and we have moved on in the discussion, but after 17 pages I'm confused if we ever determined the answer to the original question.
Quote from: "TS_comments"
This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

The image appears to be at the same opacity as the secondary image (red car). ^^TS kindly even placed them in order.

My answer to the original topic question is #1 and #3. It looks like the face/leaves image was added to one original reflection pic that was taken outside Carrolwood house on 6/25, during the now famous ambulance backing out scene.

That one original pic was layered as different % opacity levels over these (3) pics of the staged ambulance interior scene. The face image was cropped out of the tabloid headline version. At some point after 6/25/09, these 3 full frame versions were found online. I'd love to know how exactly that happened but it was on the forum, someone posted a full version on a thread just like we are doing now... and then someone else posts it on another thread, and then it's requoted and reposted and blogged all over and then wait... they aren't the same pic...

What this means is that these photographers are certainly working for MJ. Didn't they also get the UCLA stretcher pics?

I think that the video showing the wall rules out #1 and the video showing the interior of Ambulance 71 rules out #2 which leaves #3.  If someone is leaving the full pictures online they must want us to figure out something.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TheRunningGirl on March 05, 2011, 07:32:34 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Okay, so I decided to start the redirect thread this time.   ;)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)


This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

To help you figure out the answer: I have included below four different ambulance photos, a video of the wall area behind the red car, and a video of the inside of ambulance 71 (11803, CA 1261551).


(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Wow! It feels like it is Game Time!

As my photoshopping expertise is NIL, I have spent some time observing the pictures and drawing a few conclusions purely based on BASIC observations.

-The 4 pictures above are made of at least 3 different BASE pictures: The interior of the ambulance, the outside scene and a third "picture" or overlay.
- The third "picture" or overlay is the one that has the leaf-like pattern (Green Man)
- This third "picture" or overlay is DIFFERENT on pictures 1, 2, 3 and 4; in other words there are 4 different overlays, all with different patterns, shapes, numbers, letters, animals and faces added to the base pictures.  I like the elephant! It reminds me of PT Barnum!  :lol:
- The inside of the ambulance whilst being similar to ambulance 71 appears to be different. (Refer to mdc post for a picture - http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=450#p310387

With L.O.V.E
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: navibl on March 05, 2011, 08:16:13 AM
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?



Thank you....BIG Thank you!!!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 05, 2011, 08:25:42 AM
An example of taking a picture on ambulance 78 (for getting into identifying irregularities if any) is the following. Sun light is about the same, it's noon.

[attachment=2:12kqi0dp]ambulance_78_16_700.jpg[/attachment:12kqi0dp]

Adding some light to get more details:

[attachment=1:12kqi0dp]ambulance_78_16_light_700.jpg[/attachment:12kqi0dp]
Credit goes to Mike who has created some brilliant insights here:
http://mikesphotos.us/gallery2/v/Action/Events/FSD-78-2009/RA78/
Credit goes to azazel28 (Nov 11, 2009 on mjkit) for finding Mike's site.

You will notice that you don't see much - except that the window glass panel is not even and is creating cords. This is not exceptional and you will notice that car panels usually are not even.

You will also notice that you cannot see anything from the outside except
a) when  being very close to the window and
b) when there are floodlights keeping the inside bright.

Comparing these pictures to the ones on ET online (see post above, The Insider also did publish picture #2), we will notice that the original pictures are clearer.

The greyish layered full view pictures started leaking to the web as of July 2009 around the time when Ben Evenstad showed his "proof" picture in the interview video.
One of the first pictures without a presslogo on it was this shot of a computer screen:
[attachment=0:12kqi0dp]ambulance_large_without_presslogo.jpg[/attachment:12kqi0dp]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: looking4truth on March 05, 2011, 08:55:09 AM
Did anyone notice that the face image in picture #1 changes in picture #4. It looks like he is smiling bigger in the fourth picture. Or it could be pointing to doubles... a bit of a stretch but a possibility. It reminds me of the two possible MJs in the BAD video.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on March 05, 2011, 10:01:16 AM
I’m confused about what we see in the different videos.  Are there two red cars?  I’ve been watching the Hollywoodtv video to see where the red car was positioned.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU
You can see the ambulance is driven backwards and turns.  At around 1:33 it starts forward.  We know the side window is near the front.  The person turns from the window and begins to run back. At 1:36 you can see there is a red car that has been metres behind him.  How could that red car have been reflected in the side window of the ambulance. Notice the lights of the car are on, which is not the case in the photos.

[attachment=0:1kaes9hm]1.35 Ambulance.JPG[/attachment:1kaes9hm][attachment=1:1kaes9hm]1.36 Distance of Red Car from the Ambulance.jpg[/attachment:1kaes9hm]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on March 05, 2011, 10:30:03 AM
Then there's Ben Evenstad and his magic computer. (I don't know why abcnews.com have 'Ambulance at Neverland' in the video title)
Now this is interesting, you might want to verify this yourself.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae ... d-10974241 (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-neverland-10974241)
For the purpose of research -
[attachment=0:10ju16tt]Ben's Video 8.JPG[/attachment:10ju16tt]
[attachment=2:10ju16tt]Ben's Video 11.JPG[/attachment:10ju16tt]
[attachment=1:10ju16tt]Ben's Video 12.JPG[/attachment:10ju16tt]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 05, 2011, 10:31:23 AM
Quote from: "Elsa"
I’m confused about what we see in the different videos.  Are there two red cars?  I’ve been watching the Hollywoodtv video to see where the red car was positioned.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU
You can see the ambulance is driven backwards and turns.  At around 1:33 it starts forward.  We know the side window is near the front.  The person turns from the window and begins to run back. At 1:36 you can see there is a red car that has been metres behind him.  How could that red car have been reflected in the side window of the ambulance. Notice the lights of the car are on, which is not the case in the photos.

[attachment=0:31e0q6zk]1.35 Ambulance.JPG[/attachment:31e0q6zk][attachment=1:31e0q6zk]1.36 Distance of Red Car from the Ambulance.jpg[/attachment:31e0q6zk]
doesn't the front of the car in the video look more boxy than the one in the reflection? or is it just me?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 05, 2011, 10:36:53 AM
I have to correct myself about the timing of the leaking for the full pictures.
This is the video showing the first full picture on a computer screen and it was posted June 27, 2009 by a youtube member speaking German:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAm3NDJiMds

Interestingly, only in the greyish layered full pictures that were leaked to the web, we found those eyes, faces, leaves etc.
This was more or less the same procedure we had witnessed as with the O2 photos that were altered and modified later. The only difference was that the photoshop jobs on the O2 photos showed a miserable quality and were to be noticed by everybody by just zooming in.

Those different full ambulance pictures were altered in a very fine artistic way.
Quality takes some time. Especially when one has to do as if it were 1985 or 1995.

(http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/uh55144,1256911649,mj_pic.jpg)

Taking the required time for a good photoshop job into account, considering the time of publication of the pictures by ET online (before 6:03 p.m. June 25, 2009), there is no doubt that the pictures were prepared in advance.

Given that Ben Evenstad had been following Michael since quite some time (and even stated in the second video how many times Michael had been hospitalized) I assume he had only to look into his archive drawers or servers to find some "model" pictures to modify.

All which was left to be done was to set up a photographer-taking-scene matching the chosen storybook elements and layers in the photos (e.g. sunny day with shadows, afternoon, red car etc.), to make sure that only the guys of the team get close enough and then to let the avalanche get pace after feeding the prepared pictures to the media.

Now as to importance of special dates and how could you determine a clear day at a special date? In Caliland, weather is not so unpredictable. Check out these historical weather conditions and you'll see that as of June 21 the sky was always clear at noon / early afternoon.

Plus: a good planner thinks worst case, too. There would have been a photo for a rainy day, too, I don't doubt this.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 05, 2011, 10:57:29 AM
Hahaha, I really enjoy Ben's video.
He's such a tricky actor... "the agency that were at the house the day Michael Jackson d... passed away".

And still he had no explanation why he stayed in his car in front of the gate when all the other paps were hurrying to follow the SUVs.

Stay stay stay
What you want
But don’t play games
With my affection
Take take take
What you need
But don’t leave me
With no direction...

 :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 05, 2011, 11:00:12 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I’m going to make one more introductory comment here, before taking a deep dive into the evidences regarding the ambulance photo, and the hows of the hoax.  In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it.  And in fact, others should bring in evidence they have found (and indeed, many are doing this already in this thread, which is good); don’t just wait for me to explain everything.

To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.  In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.  And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.

Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it.  Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence.  This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are  :lol: ).  But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.

Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it).  And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence.  Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth.  But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.

When the trial starts, I will not be doing very many redirects or comments.  There will be plenty for you to investigate—especially since it will be televised; and I don’t want to take your time and attention from that.  However, we have about a month left; let’s see how far we can get connecting the dots on the hows of the hoax (coming up with a good, solid, coherent theory).
Quote from: "TS_comments"
So now I’m going to start challenging some of the theories out there, on the ambulance photo.  Please keep in mind that I’m not trying to pick on anyone specific; I am only asking for critical examination, and clear evidence.  And yes, many very good and correct things have been researched and discovered by hoax investigators; I am not trying to discredit all of the tremendous effort that has been put into this for 20 months now.  But there are some particular areas that I want to challenge; and if they can be sustained by solid evidence, fine.  And if not, then we may need to revise some of our conclusions.

Some have said that the photo is fake, because the reflection of the red car is facing the wrong direction.  But the red car was parked facing the same direction that the ambulance drove away while leaving, and in the reflection the red car is facing towards the front of the ambulance.  

A similar idea is that the red car is too low to the ground, for it to be reflected in a window that is much higher than the level of the car.  Anyone can debunk this idea by walking up to a mirror (or a window that has a good reflection in it); the closer you get to the mirror/window, the more you can see things lower and lower to the ground.  By holding the camera up close to the ambulance window, it would be easy for the camera to see a reflection of something much lower than the ambulance window.

Yet another idea is that the red car was parked in the wrong place for it to be reflected in the ambulance window.  However, that depends on what point in time the famous ambulance photo was taken.  If it was taken while the ambulance was still backing out of the driveway, then yes the car reflection would be wrong; but if the photo was taken later as the ambulance started to pull down the street, then the red car was in the right place to be reflected in the ambulance window.

One of the very first theories was that the ambulance photo is fake, because only the yellow shirt guy is there at the window snapping the shot in the still picture (and in the sunshine, no tree shadows); but the red shirt guy is there in the video of it.  However, the still photo with only the yellow shirt guy was taken as the ambulance was coming out of the driveway—you can even see the fire engine behind the ambulance in that still picture.  The video with the red shirt (and the other guy) is a few seconds later, as the ambulance begins to pull away (and there are shadows of trees in that area).

Another common idea is that you can’t take a picture through the tinted ambulance window.  This point has already been questioned and debated on the hoax forums quite a bit, and several people—even of those who support the hoax—think that it can be done, if you use the right camera, settings, and flash (which is no doubt what professional paparazzi would be prepared to do).  Just because someone tried to do it with a cell phone, and didn’t get good results, means nothing; cell phones don’t normally have flash, and they certainly aren’t the high quality camera and flash equipment that would come on a paparazzi camera.  So we can’t really use this tinted glass argument as solid evidence.  For those who want to research it, there is actually a lot of information on the internet (having nothing to do specifically with MJ or ambulances) about taking pictures through dark or tinted windows.

I’m not going to take the time to include pictures of these things, which most of us have seen hundreds of times now; but if anyone else wants, they can add the pictures of the things we are discussing here.  In my next comment, I will start a detailed examination of the possibilities about the leaf pattern, etc.
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Before moving on with the investigation of the ambulance photo, and other aspects, I want to mention once more the purpose for this thread--since it has only been a few days, and several are questioning it already.

As I said before, your METHOD or APPROACH to investigation is far more important than the ambulance photo or other parts of the hoax.  Not merely for investigating this hoax, but for your own good in your entire life, these are extremely valuable skills--and this forum and thread give you an opportunity to learn and practice these skills in an environment that is friendly (or at least should be, and usually is).  Part of the good investigation skills here, is learning how to critically examine things from the OPPOSITE perspective than your own belief (which in this case is the hoax).  We have a term for people who are unwilling to look at or even consider things from somebody else's perspective, and that term is "prejudice"--and you already know what MJ thinks about prejudice.

For the most part, people have been doing excellent research and have a lot of good questions and/or answers.  Some of the very things that I am planning to bring out, have already being discovered and brought out by others--which is great.  For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder.  I will explain why soon.

But even though most comments have been good or excellent, there have been a few complaints recently about this thread.  We still have several weeks before the trial, and we're just getting good started on this phase of investigation; if it is too much for you, then please either skip the thread, or else read only and don't comment.  I don't mean to exclude anyone who has genuine input on what is being discussed; but please keep your discussion to evidence for or against the topic at hand, and not complaints about the topic itself or the purpose for it, etc.  Again, if for any reason this thread is not helping you personally, then just skip it.  But please don't interfere with those who are taking it seriously, and who are getting enjoyment from it and/or are practicing good investigation skills.

Last of all, I am the one who started this thread: maybe I should give a little more of an overview, so people will have a little better idea of the bigger picture that we are working on piecing together here.  The ambulance picture is a major key to unlocking the entire hoax--how and who, etc.  It's not only important to understand IF the photo is fake, but HOW it was faked.  Once we understand how (staged in the same amublance, but another day; or staged in another ambulance on another day; or not staged at all, but Photoshop fabricated; or not fake at all, but 100% real; etc)--then the rest of the events should fall into place relatively easily.

For example if the paramedics were involved with staging the photo before 6-25-2009, then they were most likely also in on the hoax itself.  But if the ambulance photo was 100% real, or perhaps real but slightly edited in Photoshop, then maybe the paramedics are not in on the hoax at all.  Once we understand whether or not the paramedics are in on the hoax, then many of the other pieces should fall into place--such as who or what was in the ambulance on 6-25-2009 (MJ, or dummy, or nothing, etc).  There is also the question of whether the entire court and courtroom is staged, with the judge and jury and lawyers all being confidential agreement actors--or is there perhaps just a few key people who know what's really going on.

If the answer to these questions doesn't interest you, that's your perfect right; but kindly allow those of us who are interested to continue our investigation.

Thanks.  :)
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
ET indeed released the picture on June 25: http://bumpshack.com/2009/06/25/shockin (http://bumpshack.com/2009/06/25/shockin) ... ast-photo/

But the link to the ET article doesn't work anymore and ET has it in the archive for June 28....why? That's strange.

The first comment on the blog was 19:06 (7:06 pm). But what timezone? LA or NY is a big difference.

Yes, and here is another report: http://www.thedirt.com.au/blog/michael-jacksons-last-photo/20090626-4jvd.html?page=3

For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them!  But actually, that is the way I want it.  :)

Nevertheless, I am now going to go into an extensive analysis of Ben's slip, and why the timing of the photo release is EXTREMELY important.

Here is the statement, word-for-word, with a little context.  "So, yes, Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ---- are a part of that agreement, are gonna make a lot of money.  Absolutely!" {at 4:05, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4}.

The first step in analyzing this slip, is understanding what Ben almost said--it should be obvious, but let's make it very clear.  He almost said: "... that day and the other DAY!"  We know this because of the word "other".  You say: “That tree, and the other tree …”, or “This car and the other car …”--you don’t say: “That tree and the other car …”  So if the noun before and after "other" is the same noun, then it would have to be "... that day and the other DAY."  This conclusion is further verified by the fact that Ben had actually pronounced the first letter of the next word, before interrupting himself; and that first letter is quite clearly a "d" sound.

The next step is to assess the slip-up factor.  Whether intentional or accidental, this statement has all the signs of a slip-up.  Not only does Ben interrupt himself right in the middle of the word "day"; but at that same instant, he blinks his eyes and turns away from the camera.  Then he stammers a couple of times, before getting himself somewhat back together--and the letting the word "agreement" slip out.  :lol:

So if this is an intentional slip-up, then we surely have a faked photo (regardless of how it was faked); and also a hoax, not murder--because surely nobody would INTENTIONALLY slip-up on a pre-meditated plot to murder the KING!  But what if it was an accidental slip, could it then be murder?  Well, even if murder, it would still be a PHONY PHOTO!  Which is the main point of investigation right now.  However, this is where the timing of releasing this photo gets very interesting.

We know "that day" was June 25, 2009; there were too many people who observed and reported it, for them all to be in on the hoax (including the tour bus, etc).  But when was the "other day" that Ben spilled for us: before or after June 25 (it can NOT be the SAME day, or it would not be the "OTHER" day)?

If the photo was first released on June 28, or 27--then perhaps the other day was June 26.  Perhaps after attempting to get a good shot of MJ in the ambulance, they had nothing usable; so they scrambled to pull together a staged shot on June 26 (the "other day"), and then released the famous fake photo shortly after.  If this is how it really went, then perhaps MJ could have really died on June 25 (murdered, or whatever); and these paparazzi guys were in on nothing, except fake journalism--not in on a murder plot, and not in on a hoax plan.

However, what if the photo was first released ON JUNE 25???  And yes, we have several evidences of this--including tweets, news reports, and even the personal testimony of one or more on this very forum and thread!  So if the photo was released on June 25, then the "other day" was BEFORE June 25; and so we have the paparazzi being in on SOMETHING planned in advance, the only question is what.  

Could it be that they were in on a murder plot?  Does this fit the murder theory?  Think about it a little.  How many extra people would be involved in this pre-meditated murder plot, just to get a photo?  We would have Ben, "Chris, AND the other PEOPLE [staged paramedics?] that were there that day AND THE OTHER D[AY]"!  The word "people" is plural, including a MINIMUM of two, and usually three or more--PLUS Ben and Chris.  So we have here at least four, and probably more, involved in a premeditated murder plot--JUST TO GET A SINGLE PICTURE?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Why would the murderers spend all the money to bribe several people to be murder accomplices, and also increase the risk of the whole murder plot getting exposed?  The more people who know about the murder, the more likely somebody will spill the beans--whether intentionally or not, such as Ben's slip for example!  Why all that money and risk, just for a picture?  Why would murderers give ten cents for a picture, why would they care???

If it is a hoax, on the other hand, then there is a very important reason for the ambulance photo: to help convince the public that MJ died!  A picture is worth a thousand words, right?  Now several have mentioned on this very thread, that most unbelievers agree that the photo is fake; but they still think it is murder.  WHAT???  Did they ever stop to THINK about WHY a sinister murder plot would be designed to include a pre-planned fake ambulance picture?
TS has already given us plenty of clues in his comments on how this event/picture happened. Some people are getting confused because maybe they're over analyzing this and it really is alot simpler than we realize. There is at least two theories running in TS' comments but he did provide us with plenty of ammo to work with.

Maybe instead of letting the imagination run wild and adding too many options of how this was done actually read what TS has said. The answers to your questions (those who are completely confused by this) are in his comments. Hide and seek!

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 05, 2011, 11:30:09 AM
why does the today and the other day comment make my mind go to the was dead before he got to the airport uhh uhh hospital statement?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 05, 2011, 11:52:58 AM
After reading the TS post this has become clear to me.  I have thought since about a week after the "death" it was fishy.  Nothing has changed only a stronger belief since then.  As the great PT Barnum would say, "The Greastest Show on Earth" is near its end.  

I believe TS is just trying to have us reconsider different aspects of the events, so when they are brought to "light" in the trial we are "fresh" with info that we might have forgotten.(ie pic almost 2yrs now)

In fact, TS and Thisisalsoit are indeed enough "proof" by themselves of the hoax.  Why?
          A- MJ alive would never allow or give permission for someone to toy with our minds and hearts in this fashion.  Their purpose is to give "hope" when there feels like there is none.  or
          B- MJ is dead and TS is sick , cruel pyscho who enjoys mantipulating people and found the perfect forum to do so.  Tho nothing is gained for TS in this scenario other than demented satisfaction, I would assume he would eventually get "bored" with this.  

Tho TS will not come out and say it was or was not a hoax.(tho we all know or wouldn"t be here)  The time for answers to our many questions is near.  He is only pointing out what those questions were.

So for me, I'm gonna quit banging my head on the wall, believe what I believe, grab some popcorn and enjoy the rest of show!  And rub it so many peoples faces after!!!  Buckle up boys and girls, this gonna be one fun ride!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 05, 2011, 02:13:30 PM
Now we are entering physics.  :D  

The "hole" in the window (at right) is somewhat a key hole or what Michael would allow us to see  ;):
[attachment=1:29uistpg]ambulance_bens2video_reflection_03_hole.jpg[/attachment:29uistpg]

The "hole" in the window is most likely a round film attached to the window from the inside creating a kind of prism. This will make visible what is not visible through the rest of the window. How's that possible? It is a partial redirection of light or a refraction of light via a "helping matter" like a prism foil.

That is what a regular mirror does (and what the tinted film does - building a barrier for light that is being thrown back to the eye):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Reflection_angles.svg/170px-Reflection_angles.svg.png)

This is an example of refraction, thus light going into a different direction:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/F%C3%A9nyt%C3%B6r%C3%A9s.jpg/220px-F%C3%A9nyt%C3%B6r%C3%A9s.jpg)

Refraction works with simple waterdrops as well:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/GGB_reflection_in_raindrops.jpg/220px-GGB_reflection_in_raindrops.jpg)

Caravaners are using a similar prism film on their caravan rear window for a better view while manoevering backwards and for avoiding the "dead angle" where they overlook objects or people.

Watch Ben's video again:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-neverland-10974241
1) The yellow shirt video taker is using the "hole" (though he is shorter he's holding his camcorder above) and is shortly getting the paramedic doing something at left (seat almost empty).
[attachment=0:29uistpg]ambulance_bens2video_reflection_03b_redshirtapproaches.jpg[/attachment:29uistpg]

It's then the turn of the red guy - who should be getting the same paramedic sitting calmly on his place and holding a respiratory bag - according to the famous photos, right?
 :lol:
Impossible to sit up and get the hands coordinated again in a fraction of a second.

2) The red shirt guy didn't get anything at all because he was holding the camera way below the "hole" and could only catch the mirrored surroundings due to the settings of the window.(at 2:00)

[attachment=2:29uistpg]ambulance_bens2video_reflection_05b_redguyshooting.jpg[/attachment:29uistpg]

3) Notice that the monitor is on while the yellow shirt guy is filming (blue screen).
On the famous photos the monitor is off.

Conclusion for the three occurancies mentioned above:
the famous photos have been shot at another occasion.


 ;)
We are dealing here with optical illusion paired with application of different media, different perspectives, different speed at different points of time. No wonder everybody is confused.
Basics of optics, the "knowledge of light": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optics
A great animation of modification of perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_%28photography%29
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 05, 2011, 02:19:01 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.

Maybe instead of letting the imagination run wild and adding too many options of how this was done actually read what TS has said. The answers to your questions (those who are completely confused by this) are in his comments. Hide and seek!

Peace[/b][/color]

Don't forget though, TS's sentence that I've put in bold. We shouldn't just take his word on things.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: skyways on March 05, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
can anyone more computer savvy PLZ zoom in on the Round Small Stamp inside ambulance  wall- right abow paramedics hand, who holding intubulation bag??
its look like black and white square stamp on the wall

THANX A LOT - mb its help us to find to who that ambulance belong, since its seems like emblem wth some words around :shock:  :roll:

Quote from: "TheRunningGirl"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=450#p310387 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=450#p310387)[/url]

With L.O.V.E
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 05, 2011, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories.

Maybe instead of letting the imagination run wild and adding too many options of how this was done actually read what TS has said. The answers to your questions (those who are completely confused by this) are in his comments. Hide and seek!

Peace

Don't forget though, TS's sentence that I've put in bold. We shouldn't just take his word on things.
Quote
There is at least two theories running in TS' comments but he did provide us with plenty of ammo to work with.

Maybe instead of letting the imagination run wild and adding too many options of how this was done actually read what TS has said. The answers to your questions (those who are completely confused by this) are in his comments. Hide and seek!
I didn't forget. As a matter of fact I said he has at least two theories running and I will add to that now and say it is up to you/me and your/my own critical investigating to figure out which one is true and which one is false. If anyone on this board realizes what he has said it is me; that is why I said to read his words again.

It is like a puzzle and it does take common sense in the end to figure out that this really isn't that hard. We make it harder than it has to be.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 05, 2011, 06:43:26 PM
Quote from: "Grace"

(http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/uh55144,1256911649,mj_pic.jpg)

Taking the required time for a good photoshop job into account, considering the time of publication of the pictures by ET online (before 6:03 p.m. June 25, 2009), there is no doubt that the pictures were prepared in advance.

Given that Ben Evenstad had been following Michael since quite some time (and even stated in the second video how many times Michael had been hospitalized) I assume he had only to look into his archive drawers or servers to find some "model" pictures to modify.

All which was left to be done was to set up a photographer-taking-scene matching the chosen storybook elements and layers in the photos (e.g. sunny day with shadows, afternoon, red car etc.), to make sure that only the guys of the team get close enough and then to let the avalanche get pace after feeding the prepared pictures to the media.

Now as to importance of special dates and how could you determine a clear day at a special date? In Caliland, weather is not so unpredictable. Check out these historical weather conditions and you'll see that as of June 21 the sky was always clear at noon / early afternoon.

Plus: a good planner thinks worst case, too. There would have been a photo for a rainy day, too, I don't doubt this.  ;)

Great research as usual Grace. Congrats and thank you! I was looking out for that ambulance picture of Michael from 1985. And like you wrote, it is not too hard to predict what the weather would be like on a certain day in LA. We're definitely on the same meridian with LA and in June, it's sunny almost all of the days. It's very rare to see clouds and rain in summer. And weather forecast can give you a weekly report.

About the ambulance pictures that Mike took. Did he try to use any flashlight?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 05, 2011, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: "Grace"

Conclusion for the three occurancies mentioned above:
the famous photos have been shot at another occasion.

;)

Agree. That's the reason why Ben made a slip-up like "that day and the other d... umm".
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 05, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
Grace, when you compared the video to the still pics, you gave me such a duh moment. I think you win this round! The paramedics position and the monitor being on instead of off really does prove the pic is staged at another location.

Why is that keyhole there? Is that standard on an ambulance window or was that installed for hoax purposes? I expect the answer to be "it's standard" because it appears the videographer knew just where to find it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 05, 2011, 08:05:48 PM
Quote from: "bec"
I expect the answer to be "it's standard" because it appears the videographer knew just where to find it.

IF the videographer didn't make an agreement like Ben did. ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 05, 2011, 08:13:30 PM
Here's another little thing. I know in low light situations, video is invariably brighter then still film taken of the same subject. In Ben's video, the ambulance interior is very dark and it's difficult to pick up any detail. The famous ambulance pics by comparison appear to be in a floodlight, like Photog had The World's Brightest flash.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 05, 2011, 08:57:18 PM

Well TS, I gave it a day or two and I indeed stayed out of trouble hurting my eyes over this picture and the videos. You owe me a pair of glasses and a new brain :lol: It actually only took me only 5 minutes to realize you are right about the angle of the reflection. I thought that the red car was parked more to the back, but when I looked at the picture again (the one with the yellow shirt guy/Ben at the side window) I realized that was an optical illusion and the car is parked more to the front, so it is indeed possible to get a reflection like that, and I guess in that case you won't get a reflection of the photographer either, but I would need to try that myself to be sure. Maybe chappie could try this with her van, car and dummy. I think the picture was shot (according to the video footage and the angle of the reflection, at this point:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/anglepossible.jpg)

But the fact that you are right about that, doesn't mean the car isn't photoshopped in there. Actually, when I simply use common sense, it HAS to be shopped in there with the wall, because the reflection of the car doesn't match the car on the scene when you look at the lighting of the sun. The car in the video has no sun reflection in the left (front), while the one in the picture has a lot of sun reflection there. Also the sun reflection on the car in the picture is much more than in the video, where the car is more in the shadow:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/carsreflection.jpg)

That would mean that the ambulance picture was taken on another time of the day, when the sun was in a different position, probably the other d... uhhhm. BUT! No way in hell they would take the risk by putting the ambulance in front of the house to get a staged picture because there is a big chance some paps would be on the scene, cars passing by, fans at the house etc. It would have hit the news one way or another and that would ruin it, because the ambulance wasn't meant to be seen until June 25; hoax day. So if Mike didn't reproduce that wall with curb, trees and all in a studio or anywhere else, I think it's safe to assume that the car and the wall reflections are indeed shopped into the picture. It's much safer to just take a few pics in different angles from a parked car and pick the one that matches the scene on June 25.


There is more that still doesn't add up which I would like you to try and debunk as well, since this seems to be necessary because if you wouldn't have challenged the angle issue, I would still have thought it was impossible. So here we go:

When I put all pictures on top of each other, with the background perfectly matched, you can see the EMT bag in the front is moving. That shouldn't be possible, because it doesn't move. It's part of the static scene and should therefore be at the same position on all 4 pics, yet it moves along with the car. Can you explain that?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/emt_bag.jpg)

I think the bag is shopped in as well because it seems to be floating in mid-air.

Since the reflection must be shopped into the picture, the picture was most likely not made through a window because they couldn't have other reflections in the picture. So the ambulance scene is probably part of a set (it doesn't match the real inside of ambulance 71 anyway) and the picture is altered to make it look like it has been taken through a window.


These are 4 different pictures and we see the car moving quite a bit. Yet the EMT that is supposed to be performing CPR isn't moving. You move when you are performing CPR, so we should have seen the guys hand and body do at least a little more than we see on these pictures because performing CPR requires you to move or else there will not be enough pressure to do anything significant.


The monitor is off in the ambulance pictures, while on the video it's clearly on and produces quite some light.

The leave pattern is cut off at the EMT's arm and the sheet, but is overlapping the handle of the small cabin in the back of the ambulance. We already found out it can't be a reflection, but this also proves that it's not part of the interior, which leaves photoshop.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/PatternClose-upAmbulanceX.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/leaves01.jpg)


Lastly there is still the issue that the black and white thingy (I really have no clue what it is) is overlapping the EMT bag. This should not be possible, because the bag is in front and should overlap anything that is behind it:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb05.jpg)

So whaddya got? 8-)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 05, 2011, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)


Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.

For now, though, let's ask if the difference here proves two different ambulances: one on "that day" (#71, June 25, video, with bright border), and one on the "other d ------ and uh, and uh" (#??, before June 25, staged famous still photos, with dark border)?

And while we are looking at these comparison shots, does anybody want to say that the leaf pattern can be seen in both the video and the still, or only in the still?  Could this be another evidence of two different ambulances, on two different days (unless the leaf pattern was added in Photoshop--more on that later)?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 05, 2011, 09:43:28 PM
Definitely a different ambulance. The white border/dark border is not the only difference:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/ambinside.jpg)

The top cabin seems to be non-existing on the ambulance pic and the blood pressure thing is totally different.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 05, 2011, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
It's actually silver, not white. It's like a dull chrome. I don't know what exactly to call it, but it's been the same in all of the ambulances I've been in.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: looking4truth on March 05, 2011, 09:50:46 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.

For now, though, let's ask if the difference here proves two different ambulances: one on "that day" (#71, June 25, video, with bright border), and one on the "other d ------ and uh, and uh" (#??, before June 25, staged famous still photos, with dark border)?

And while we are looking at these comparison shots, does anybody want to say that the leaf pattern can be seen in both the video and the still, or only in the still? Could this be another evidence of two different ambulances, on two different days (unless the leaf pattern was added in Photoshop--more on that later)?

I do not see the leaf pattern in the video. So it was either added later on Photoshop or was used as a prop in the staged photograph.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 05, 2011, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
TS, you seem to be trying to convince us that everything's real, angles possible and matching that day, playing DA, but are we still supposed to find some detail proving it's still fake?  I don't think that red shirt photographer's face looks anything like Ben. ...

Yes, to the question on DA and still prove fake.

According to Ben, he did not take the still photo--it was Chris Weiss.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 05, 2011, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Definitely a different ambulance. The white border/dark border is not the only difference:

The top cabin seems to be non-existing on the ambulance pic and the blood pressure thing is totally different.

The ambulance picture is cut off, just above the monitor; so you would not see the top cabin.

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?  Video is usually 30 frames per second, much lower resolution than still, and no flash; so you will normally see much more detail in a still than in a video.

Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.  Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 05, 2011, 10:21:51 PM
Okay, so I clicked edit instead of quote, must be my fried brain...

I will post my comment here and ask TS what he wrote, because that was not all...

Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The depth. The one in the still looks like a sticker and has no border, the one in the video seems to be more up front, as if there is space between the wall and the thing. There is also a border around it in the video and it has some black thing next to it.

I know the picture is cut off, but because the cabin is more up front, we should have seen a shadow under the cabin or at least something that looks like the bootom of the cabin.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 05, 2011, 10:42:49 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2s6a5xi.jpg)

;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 05, 2011, 10:47:37 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2s6a5xi.jpg)

;)
Hmmmmm, seems like you have a colleague graduated buttock on tonight TS!  :lol:  I definitely see light coming off that screen.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 05, 2011, 11:00:11 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

;)
Hmmmmm, seems like you have a colleague graduated buttock on tonight TS!  :lol:  I definitely see light coming off that screen.

OOOOOOOPPPSS!!!

Well, let me try a little harder.  MJFAN7, how strong was your flash?  Was it a cell-phone flash, or a large powerful flash like a pap camera would probably have?

Does anyone else want to try the with their flash and monitor?

And if all else fails: maybe the paramedic accidently bumped the monitor off switch, between the video and the still photo!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 05, 2011, 11:02:19 PM
Without flash:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/100_3272.jpg)

With flash:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/100_3273.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 05, 2011, 11:04:15 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

;)
Hmmmmm, seems like you have a colleague graduated buttock on tonight TS!  :lol:  I definitely see light coming off that screen.

OOOOOOOPPPSS!!!

Well, let me try a little harder.  MJFAN7, how strong was your flash?  Was it a cell-phone flash, or a large powerful flash like a pap camera would probably have?

Does anyone else want to try the with their flash and monitor?

And if all else fails: maybe the paramedic accidently bumped the monitor off switch, between the video and the still photo!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

:lol: :lol: It's a digital camera flash, i don't have one of those big cameras. :? :P
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 05, 2011, 11:10:25 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

;)
Hmmmmm, seems like you have a colleague graduated buttock on tonight TS!  :lol:  I definitely see light coming off that screen.

OOOOOOOPPPSS!!!

Well, let me try a little harder.  MJFAN7, how strong was your flash?  Was it a cell-phone flash, or a large powerful flash like a pap camera would probably have?

Does anyone else want to try the with their flash and monitor?

And if all else fails: maybe the paramedic accidently bumped the monitor off switch, between the video and the still photo!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

LOL, nice try! Do you think that if that flash was THAT bright, we would have a picture at all? That would definitely reflect agains the window causing nothing but light. And not very professional for an EMT to bump the off switch when you are dealing with a dying patient that needs urgent monitoring. Besides that, that's just guessing and we can not build a coherent theory on that, you know that :lol:  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 05, 2011, 11:59:49 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
 Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

I know is not the monitor but I think this is what TS means:


With Flash

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/thelord3003/photoA.jpg)


Without Flash

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/thelord3003/photo2.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 06, 2011, 02:13:45 AM
That's very interesting Yambo.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:12:38 AM
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

I could have sworn I posted a pic with the same explanation the other day :shock:  :shock: , but I can´t find it here :shock:  :shock: (I was looking at that pic in my pc before I logged in :shock: and here is your post!)

Also, other parts inside are different. Are ambulances all the same? The ones I´ve seen have chrome coloured interior frames.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:15:38 AM
Quote from: "everlastinglove_MJ"
Quote from: "paulnotpeter"
This is the screenshot I was talking about. It's for Ambulance2. What do you see? A word? An anagram?  :?:

Watching the screenshot from a 2m distance - no I'm not farsighted (or nearsighted) :lol: - and I read ARMY :shock: ARMY OF LOVE perhaps :?

I just see an "E" where the face/ leaves stand.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:20:11 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
Credit goes to Mike who has created some brilliant insights here:
http://mikesphotos.us/gallery2/v/Action/Events/FSD-78-2009/RA78/
Credit goes to azazel28 (Nov 11, 2009 on mjkit) for finding Mike's site.
Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:24:55 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
I have to correct myself about the timing of the leaking for the full pictures.
This is the video showing the first full picture on a computer screen and it was posted June 27, 2009 by a youtube member speaking German:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAm3NDJiMds

Interestingly, only in the greyish layered full pictures that were leaked to the web, we found those eyes, faces, leaves etc.
This was more or less the same procedure we had witnessed as with the O2 photos that were altered and modified later. The only difference was that the photoshop jobs on the O2 photos showed a miserable quality and were to be noticed by everybody by just zooming in.

Those different full ambulance pictures were altered in a very fine artistic way.
Quality takes some time. Especially when one has to do as if it were 1985 or 1995.

(http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/uh55144,1256911649,mj_pic.jpg)

Taking the required time for a good photoshop job into account, considering the time of publication of the pictures by ET online (before 6:03 p.m. June 25, 2009), there is no doubt that the pictures were prepared in advance.

Given that Ben Evenstad had been following Michael since quite some time (and even stated in the second video how many times Michael had been hospitalized) I assume he had only to look into his archive drawers or servers to find some "model" pictures to modify.

All which was left to be done was to set up a photographer-taking-scene matching the chosen storybook elements and layers in the photos (e.g. sunny day with shadows, afternoon, red car etc.), to make sure that only the guys of the team get close enough and then to let the avalanche get pace after feeding the prepared pictures to the media.

Now as to importance of special dates and how could you determine a clear day at a special date? In Caliland, weather is not so unpredictable. Check out these historical weather conditions and you'll see that as of June 21 the sky was always clear at noon / early afternoon.

Plus: a good planner thinks worst case, too. There would have been a photo for a rainy day, too, I don't doubt this.  ;)

Right!

About the rain. The "hoax ambulance" video made by the German tv showed a rainy road.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:29:46 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
Now we are entering physics.  :D  

The "hole" in the window (at right) is somewhat a key hole or what Michael would allow us to see  ;):
[attachment=1:trfh2jvl]ambulance_bens2video_reflection_03_hole.jpg[/attachment:trfh2jvl]

The "hole" in the window is most likely a round film attached to the window from the inside creating a kind of prism. This will make visible what is not visible through the rest of the window. How's that possible? It is a partial redirection of light or a refraction of light via a "helping matter" like a prism foil.

That is what a regular mirror does (and what the tinted film does - building a barrier for light that is being thrown back to the eye):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Reflection_angles.svg/170px-Reflection_angles.svg.png)

This is an example of refraction, thus light going into a different direction:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/F%C3%A9nyt%C3%B6r%C3%A9s.jpg/220px-F%C3%A9nyt%C3%B6r%C3%A9s.jpg)

Refraction works with simple waterdrops as well:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/GGB_reflection_in_raindrops.jpg/220px-GGB_reflection_in_raindrops.jpg)

Caravaners are using a similar prism film on their caravan rear window for a better view while manoevering backwards and for avoiding the "dead angle" where they overlook objects or people.

Watch Ben's video again:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-neverland-10974241
1) The yellow shirt video taker is using the "hole" (though he is shorter he's holding his camcorder above) and is shortly getting the paramedic doing something at left (seat almost empty).
[attachment=0:trfh2jvl]ambulance_bens2video_reflection_03b_redshirtapproaches.jpg[/attachment:trfh2jvl]

It's then the turn of the red guy - who should be getting the same paramedic sitting calmly on his place and holding a respiratory bag - according to the famous photos, right?
 :lol:
Impossible to sit up and get the hands coordinated again in a fraction of a second.

2) The red shirt guy didn't get anything at all because he was holding the camera way below the "hole" and could only catch the mirrored surroundings due to the settings of the window.(at 2:00)

[attachment=2:trfh2jvl]ambulance_bens2video_reflection_05b_redguyshooting.jpg[/attachment:trfh2jvl]

3) Notice that the monitor is on while the yellow shirt guy is filming (blue screen).
On the famous photos the monitor is off.

Conclusion for the three occurancies mentioned above:
the famous photos have been shot at another occasion.


 ;)
We are dealing here with optical illusion paired with application of different media, different perspectives, different speed at different points of time. No wonder everybody is confused.
Basics of optics, the "knowledge of light": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optics
A great animation of modification of perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_%28photography%29

Today is the day of synchronicity for me  :lol:  Just watched at this video when looking for the German tv one:
[youtube:trfh2jvl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip873dpf2bA[/youtube:trfh2jvl]

A comment from one user:
I don't think it is a whole. I thinks it's the reflection of the camera lense against the window and the white face is the face of the camera man also reflected of the window.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:41:44 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 03:49:11 AM
Seems like I was LATE for the game.

Is it me or all this has been discussed and discovered already over the months in youtube, the hoax forums, chats, blogs....?

Another thing, when I look at MJ intubated, makes me wonder if may be someone took a pic of him against his will when he was in a hospital instead, either for treatment or operation.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: applehead250609 on March 06, 2011, 04:10:16 AM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).

Wow this is what I call NEVER ENDING STORY!!!!! :lol:
I'm starting to believe that this TS is someone from TMZ,because,there is a similar topic about "Big Frigin' Difference",lol  :lol: .



TS_comments wrote:

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?



LOVE
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 06, 2011, 04:31:36 AM
:lol:  :lol:  right! I follow TMZ "find the differences game", I always liked those since I was a lil girl and i´ve been told I have a photographic memory, but i don´t believe that anymore.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: applehead250609 on March 06, 2011, 04:41:06 AM
Quote from: "Gema"
:lol:  :lol:  right! I follow TMZ "find the differences game", I always liked those since I was a lil girl and i´ve been told I have a photographic memory, but i don´t believe that anymore.


:lol: Love you Gema!!!
God bless you girl!!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 06, 2011, 06:19:48 AM
Can you take a picture through tinted ambulance windows?
Is it possible to take such picture with a clear view of what or who is inside? Do ambulances use a special kind of tinted windows different to ordinary ones used for cars?

Answer:

The tint on ambulance windows is similar to regular car tint.

During the day, it is darker in the ambulance than outdoors, so you would be more likely to get a picture of whatever the window reflects back at you.

At night, with the lights on in the back, you can see through the tinted window into the ambulance, you might get a picture, but it may not be clear and if the patient is lying down he'll most likely be obscured by the EMT and equipment. If there are other emergency vehicles on scene, you'll get a picture of reflected strobe lights.

If an EMS crew sees you trying to take pictures through the ambulance window, they will most likely call the police.
Source(s):
EMT-I over 11 years
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 06, 2011, 06:54:30 AM
Quote from: bec
Grace, when you compared the video to the still pics, you gave me such a duh moment. I think you win this round!

@bec, that's not why I'm here: to win (in a kind of competition one against one like
"Give the right answer, win a day with Michael Jackson").
I would go and enjoy meeting him, don't get me wrong, boy, that would be an interesting day... hopefully filled with a lot of laughter... LOL
I'm enjoying winning for my life and hopefully for your life, too, by being together with all of you and exploring life in a new way.


More about the inside of LAFD ambulances:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ&feature=player_embedded (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ&feature=player_embedded)
(uploaded on June 25, 2009 - what a koinkidance... )

An excellent summary of all the ambu and 06/25 koinkidances on a romanian site:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ro&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fwhereismichaeljackson%2Fambulanta (http://http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ro&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fwhereismichaeljackson%2Fambulanta)

Some more interesting koinkidances (firestation 71 participating in movies):
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=224&t=17152 (http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=224&t=17152)
Almost everybody seems to participate in movies in western L.A., even the VIP home town of Beverly Hills):
http://www.beverlyhills.org/business/filming/past_productions_in_beverly_hills.asp (http://http://www.beverlyhills.org/business/filming/past_productions_in_beverly_hills.asp)

How they do a rescue in New York (they apply the plastic nose tube) - interesting: their side window is blinded not tinted.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptuqeGDUUlg&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptuqeGDUUlg&feature=related (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptuqeGDUUlg&feature=related)

This is the fire truck Michael once owned at Neverland ranch:
(http://http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/86%20GMC_1.jpg)
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/02/24/fun-at-the-neverland-ranch/ (http://http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/02/24/fun-at-the-neverland-ranch/)

Btw, cardiac arrest is a very secure argument if one wants to be sure to officially not survive an illness.
A Cardiac Arrest Resuscitation Evaluation in Los Angeles (2005) says this:
Quote
The rate of bystander cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) for our population was 28%, for which the overall survival rate was 2.1%. The survival rate for patients with witnessed arrests and bystander CPR was 3.2%. Among patients with no bystander CPR, the survival rate was 1.0%.
http://www.paramedicduquebec.org/documents/care-la.pdf (http://http://www.paramedicduquebec.org/documents/care-la.pdf)


Coming the big circle back again to ambu 71 and to the discussion about the monitor screen.
Let's not flip around in general, let's put the finger down on real facts.

The screen does indeed reflect daylight (and for sure also a flash - but like Souza explained, the result would have been "see nothing, only reflection" like the pictures I posted above showing ambulance 78).
The monitor screen colour of ambulance 71 is GREEN.

[attachment]ambulance green screen.jpg[/attachment]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEywlRYnKZM[/youtube]
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEywlRYnKZM (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEywlRYnKZM)

As the screen is not blue like in the video but green, again:
the famous photos have been shot on another occasion.

This is some more documentation on ambu 71 with another experiment on shooting a pic through the windows:
http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2011/01/ambulance-71.html (http://http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2011/01/ambulance-71.html)
with an interesting comment:
Quote
Anonymous said...
    These nos are the same as the one that came Carolwood Drive on 25th June 2009.Is this a real ambulance or one used for movies?.Is there any-way of verifying the no's 11803. If you want to be cryptic you could turn them in to a date.. perhaps 18th Nov 2003 the day they had a warrant and searched Neverland, also there were Xmas wreaths on the doors of Neverland that day just like at Carolwood. Just a thought. By the way I realise there is a no. missing, but it would look a bit obvious if they wanted to match it with the others in that series. Cheers.keep up the great work.
    January 31, 2011 2:17 AM
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 06, 2011, 07:12:15 AM
Ambulance 71 still did serve in 2010:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSGpaNC8_0[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSGpaNC8_0 (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSGpaNC8_0)
(Uploaded Dec 21, 2010)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 06, 2011, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Definitely a different ambulance. The white border/dark border is not the only difference:

The top cabin seems to be non-existing on the ambulance pic and the blood pressure thing is totally different.

The ambulance picture is cut off, just above the monitor; so you would not see the top cabin.

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?  Video is usually 30 frames per second, much lower resolution than still, and no flash; so you will normally see much more detail in a still than in a video.

Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor. Anyone want to take a flash picture of their computer monitor, and post it here?

But seems to me that where you see the paramedics shadow on the screen it would have blocked the flash, and even with a shadow the screen should be visible if turned on, more so even I would think. JMO and maybe I'm wrong but I think that monitor is off.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 06, 2011, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).

The monitor is turned away from the window. You can't see the screen at all, only the side pocket.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 06, 2011, 11:51:55 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
[youtube:278n1wsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:278n1wsc]
I am posting this video to show the ambulance window size. This video also shows a guy in a tan shirt filming, who is that? This also shows where the red shirt guy was standing when the ambulance was backing out. The body guards do not seem to panicked.  :?  The mark for the window is 1:29-1:33
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309515#p309515 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309515#p309515)
I'm gonna go ahead and answer my own question since no one else has. Ben is the guy in the tan shirt. He is the one who was filming through the gate which he speaks about in the video below. 8-)
[youtube:278n1wsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:278n1wsc]

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/WallReflection.jpg)In the video above when Ben is describing the death day he states that there wasn't many people there. He says that there was 2 female fans, 4 of us, and 2 autograph collectors, this doesn't match the picture TS posted of the wall with the people. If that was supposed to be the same time the ambulance was backing out and those people were there shouldn't at least some of them be in the reflection of the ambulance window? Another thing about the video above it seems to have been spliced together because Ben seems to indicate in the beginning of his explanation that there was alot of people there by talking about the tour buses and the confusion. That is a contradiction when comparing his descriptions of the death day event. This could be used to determine that the famous ambulance picture was staged and shot on "the other day".

I also want to add to this: when Ben says that he was calling around to sell his picture the news people weren't to interested in the picture because Farrah had just died. The picture wasn't news worthy until they announced that Michael had died. Then whadda know it is a hot picture after all. So this could also help with determining the timing of when the picture was released online.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 06, 2011, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
[youtube:1raaq13u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:1raaq13u]
I am posting this video to show the ambulance window size. This video also shows a guy in a tan shirt filming, who is that? This also shows where the red shirt guy was standing when the ambulance was backing out. The body guards do not seem to panicked.  :?  The mark for the window is 1:29-1:33
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309515#p309515 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309515#p309515)
I'm gonna go ahead and answer my own question since no one else has. Ben is the guy in the tan shirt. He is the one who was filming through the gate which he speaks about in the video below. 8-)
[youtube:1raaq13u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:1raaq13u]

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/WallReflection.jpg)In the video above when Ben is describing the death day he states that there wasn't many people there. He says that there was 2 female fans, 4 of us, and 2 autograph collectors, this doesn't match the picture TS posted of the wall with the people. If that was supposed to be the same time the ambulance was backing out and those people were there shouldn't at least some of them be in the reflection of the ambulance window? Another thing about the video above it seems to have been spliced together because Ben seems to indicate in the beginning of his explanation that there was alot of people there by talking about the tour buses and the confusion. That is a contradiction when comparing his descriptions of the death day event. This could be used to determine that the famous ambulance picture was staged and shot on "the other day".

I also want to add to this: when Ben says that he was calling around to sell his picture the news people weren't to interested in the picture because Farrah had just died. The picture wasn't news worthy until they announced that Michael had died. Then whadda know it is a hot picture after all. So this could also help with determining the timing of when the picture was released online.

I don't think that video of the people against the wall was from June 25. In the video description on youtube it gives the date as July 3. Also, either that picture of the wall is flipped or the video is because they don't match.

ETA: I see the picture was meant to be flipped to produce a reflection image.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 06, 2011, 12:29:13 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
[youtube:2f6tq961]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:2f6tq961]
I am posting this video to show the ambulance window size. This video also shows a guy in a tan shirt filming, who is that? This also shows where the red shirt guy was standing when the ambulance was backing out. The body guards do not seem to panicked.  :?  The mark for the window is 1:29-1:33
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309515#p309515 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309515#p309515)
I'm gonna go ahead and answer my own question since no one else has. Ben is the guy in the tan shirt. He is the one who was filming through the gate which he speaks about in the video below. 8-)
[youtube:2f6tq961]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:2f6tq961]

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/WallReflection.jpg)In the video above when Ben is describing the death day he states that there wasn't many people there. He says that there was 2 female fans, 4 of us, and 2 autograph collectors, this doesn't match the picture TS posted of the wall with the people. If that was supposed to be the same time the ambulance was backing out and those people were there shouldn't at least some of them be in the reflection of the ambulance window? Another thing about the video above it seems to have been spliced together because Ben seems to indicate in the beginning of his explanation that there was alot of people there by talking about the tour buses and the confusion. That is a contradiction when comparing his descriptions of the death day event. This could be used to determine that the famous ambulance picture was staged and shot on "the other day".

I also want to add to this: when Ben says that he was calling around to sell his picture the news people weren't to interested in the picture because Farrah had just died. The picture wasn't news worthy until they announced that Michael had died. Then whadda know it is a hot picture after all. So this could also help with determining the timing of when the picture was released online.

I don't think that video of the people against the wall was from June 25. In the video description on youtube it gives the date as July 3. Also, either that picture of the wall is flipped or the video is because they don't match.

ETA: I see the picture was meant to be flipped to produce a reflection image.
Ok all I had to work with is a still picture. There is so many videos and pictures in this thread I do not know what goes with what anymore. Could you please provide me with the video that this still is taken from.

Thanks
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 06, 2011, 12:31:35 PM
It's the video TS_comments posted in the first post on this thread. Here is the link:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4)

Picture occurs at appr. 1:41 in the video.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 06, 2011, 01:18:06 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
It's the video TS_comments posted in the first post on this thread. Here is the link:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4)

Picture occurs at appr. 1:41 in the video.
Thank you.  ;) After I wrote my last post I found the video. I see what you were saying now. So scratch what I said before about the people. Everything else is up for debate. lol

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 06, 2011, 01:18:43 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).

The monitor is turned away from the window. You can't see the screen at all, only the side pocket.

You mean the monitor in the ambulance? That's not true, because we clearly see it switched on in the video. The guy is blocking most of it, but we still see a small part.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 06, 2011, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).

The monitor is turned away from the window. You can't see the screen at all, only the side pocket.

You mean the monitor in the ambulance? That's not true, because we clearly see it switched on in the video. The guy is blocking most of it, but we still see a small part.
I was thinking the cardiac monitor. Sorry! On two different pages :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 06, 2011, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).

The monitor is turned away from the window. You can't see the screen at all, only the side pocket.

You mean the monitor in the ambulance? That's not true, because we clearly see it switched on in the video. The guy is blocking most of it, but we still see a small part.
I was thinking the cardiac monitor. Sorry! On two different pages :)

Where is that one?

You work as EMT right? Are you able to make a picture through the window when the ambulance lights are off on the inside, and the sun is shining outside? I am very curious if you would be able to see anything but reflection.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 06, 2011, 02:55:38 PM
And if one tries again to shoot a picture through a tinted window, try one more time with a translucent sticker attached to the inside to see what that does.
Curious about the results.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 06, 2011, 04:15:18 PM
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please  :mrgreen:
Quote
I also want to add to this: when Ben says that he was calling around to sell his picture the news people weren't to interested in the picture because Farrah had just died. The picture wasn't news worthy until they announced that Michael had died. Then whadda know it is a hot picture after all. So this could also help with determining the timing of when the picture was released online.
[youtube:2qqtela7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:2qqtela7]
Ben says he noticed one picture that Chris got. Ben thought this is a very important picture... About a half hour later he read online that TMZ said Michael Jackson dead. So that means roughly around 1:50 p.m. to 2 p.m. he was looking at the pictures? He learned of Michael's death from TMZ who reported his death 6 mins before Jermaine did.
[youtube:2qqtela7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0LlYK6_e_w[/youtube:2qqtela7]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-j ... ac-arrest/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/)
Michael Jackson Dies
6/25/2009 2:20 PM PDT by TMZ Staff  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We've just learned Michael Jackson has died. He was 50.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/06/25/0625_michael_jackson_mini_launch_2-1.jpg)
Michael suffered a cardiac arrest earlier this afternoon at his Holmby Hills home and paramedics were unable to revive him. We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back.

A source tells us Jackson was dead when paramedics arrived. A cardiologist at UCLA tells TMZ Jackson died of cardiac arrest.

Once at the hospital, the staff tried to resuscitate him but he was completely unresponsive.

A source inside the hospital told us there was "absolute chaos" after Jackson arrived. People who were with the singer were screaming, "You've got to save him! You've got to save him!"

We're told one of the staff members at Jackson's home called 911.

La Toya ran in the hospital sobbing after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Michael is survived by three children: Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine Jackson and Prince "Blanket" Michael Jackson II.

Story developing...

[youtube:2qqtela7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:2qqtela7]
Ben says as soon as he realised he had a good picture he was trying to sell it and he was told by the news people they were not interested because Farrah had passed away also on that day. Then 1 hour later after the news of Michael's death; now they're interested.

If his official time of death is 2:26 p.m. then 1 hour back would be 1:26 p.m. when Ben was "Photo shopping" the pic around...lol  So many contradictions. There is two stories for everything. Even Ben has two stories. :?


This blog is the earliest time frame I could find of when anyone knew about Farrah's death. This is approximate time.

http://hitmanpr.blogspot.com/2009/06/fa ... tt_25.html (http://hitmanpr.blogspot.com/2009/06/farrah-fawcett_25.html)
Quote
Thursday, June 25, 2009
Farrah Fawcett
I am sorry to say our Farrah has passed to a better place and left the pain and confines of her bed behind. She is free to be the woman we all knew and loved. So Few have touched so many. You all keep Fighting the Fight.
Posted by HitmanPR at 9:44 AM
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on March 06, 2011, 06:02:57 PM
This is what I meant when I said in an earlier post that the shadows seem to have a life of their own.
First the differences in sun reflection on the red car, between photos, can be seen in the circled area.
More significantly, the interaction between the shadows, the reflection of the red car and a flash don't make sense.  

I'm also now looking at the shadow against the monitor, mentioned in previous posts.  The shadow doesn't seem consistent with the light sources - they surely had overhead lighting as well as light from the front windows the monitor and the flash of the camera.   How does that shadow even exist given that light is hitting that area from so many directions?

All the shadowing is unnatural in the way the shadows appear against background objects, so I think there is a still photo of the EMTS that has been layered with the background - in slightly different positions between photos - and the shadows have been added. The layering has created the crazy 'coloured' shadows.
 
[attachment=2:2r7t0qmi]Ambulance1- leg shadow.jpg[/attachment:2r7t0qmi][attachment=1:2r7t0qmi]Ambulance2 - leg shadow.jpg[/attachment:2r7t0qmi][attachment=0:2r7t0qmi]Ambulance3 - leg shadow.jpg[/attachment:2r7t0qmi]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: scorpionchik on March 06, 2011, 06:43:39 PM
i have 1 question and 1 comment to make about Ben's photo shoot. I am sure this was discussed, let's refresh one more time.
Question: How Ben, the only pap,  got MJ's house at the right time, right moment when MJ being taken to the hospital? He got there before 911 was there. How he learned. Did Michael ask him or just coincedence?
Comment: What if Ben made really professional photoshop and sold out not because this is a hoax or Michael told him to do, but because they could not make good picture because of tinted windows, but wanted make money, therefore he decided to use Michael's stage picture with some ambulance picture putting together and sold it out. Therefore we have eventually questionable photo of ambulance.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 06, 2011, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

What do you see different in the blood pressure thing, other than lighting and resolution?

The angle, the "black thing" on the side (left in one, right in the other)...

Quote
Flash may also explain why the monitor is on in the video, and looks off in the still.  The light of the flash is so bright, that it can override the light coming from the monitor.
That monitor seems to be turned off (the screen shows in black ).

The monitor is turned away from the window. You can't see the screen at all, only the side pocket.

You mean the monitor in the ambulance? That's not true, because we clearly see it switched on in the video. The guy is blocking most of it, but we still see a small part.
I was thinking the cardiac monitor. Sorry! On two different pages :)

Where is that one?

You work as EMT right? Are you able to make a picture through the window when the ambulance lights are off on the inside, and the sun is shining outside? I am very curious if you would be able to see anything but reflection.
It's where you see the yellow reflection in the lower left corner. That's the cardiac monitor. And I work as a medic, not an EMT, but I haven't tried taking a picture outside. I asked about doing it (either here or on another forum) and mentioned that the ambulance I would use to do it in looks very different than the one MJ was in. The tint is extremely similar, however the concensus was it would be confusing to see a different style ambulance. It would be a van style instead of box style. If you'd like me to, I can probably do it on Friday or Saturday. MAYBE Tuesday, but it depends on the weather and I'm working an evening shift so I don't know how the sun would be.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 06, 2011, 08:04:35 PM
I was reading the articles about the ambulance drive and picture of Michael and found out this one. How nice to see some of the media realized somethings were WRONG about the ambulance :lol: Btw I saw in a hoax video that X17Online was the FIRST medium who announced Michael's "death", even before TMZ! And this news is also from X17Online. Could they be aware of somethings I wonder.

Slowest Moving Ambulance Ever

If there had been ANY chance of resuscitating Michael Jackson yesterday after he was not breathing and unconscious, according to the 911 call from his home, don't you think the EMTs could have figured out how to get out of his driveway a little faster than this! Ever heard of a circular driveway???!!!


http://x17online.com/celebrities/michael_jackson/slowest_moving_ambulance_ever_-06262009.php
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 06, 2011, 08:31:40 PM
Finally I found the picture I was looking for. The EMTs are the same, the inside look of the ambulance is the same and even the red car and the leaf pattern is there but who is the patient? What happened to the face? The first one is the pic I found, the second one is the ambulance pic we know.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2e3ok6f.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2zyzcax.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 06, 2011, 08:49:47 PM
I was checking out for other celebrities' ambulance pictures to make a comparison btw Michael's and them. I found Zsa Zsa Gabor's and Britney Spears' ambulance pictures. Britney's were taken at night but still it can give us an idea if pictures can be taken from tinted windows. And Gabor's pictures are good examples about how the background and the camera reflects on the window. Here they are.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/33p62l2.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/ety1x0.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/292qhzn.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/15rfar9.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 06, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Ambulance 71 still did serve in 2010:
[youtube:29sr0m27]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSGpaNC8_0[/youtube:29sr0m27]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSGpaNC8_0
(Uploaded Dec 21, 2010)

When I was in L.A...I think it was the 28th of Feb, while I was looking at the star maps going to check out the celebrity homes and ambulance 71 went past me on sunset blvd (near MJ's house) with sirens on. So ambulance 71 is still going in 2011.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on March 06, 2011, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
I was checking out for other celebrities' ambulance pictures to make a comparison btw Michael's and them. I found Zsa Zsa Gabor's and Britney Spears' ambulance pictures. Britney's were taken at night but still it can give us an idea if pictures can be taken from tinted windows. And Gabor's pictures are good examples about how the background and the camera reflects on the window. Here they are.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/33p62l2.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/ety1x0.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/292qhzn.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/15rfar9.jpg)

Poor Zsa Zsa.   :(   And Britney looks so lost and confused.

But those pictures do show how reflections can be in the glass of ambulance windows and that it is possible to take a photograph through the tinted windows.  My conclusion is that the photo was taken prior to June 25th (whether it was later re-touched somehow or a dummy was used, MJ posing, or a look alike I'm not sure - although the more I look at it, the less and less it looks like Michael).  And that on June 25th, the photo "being taken" was re-created, with all the props in place, like a movie set.  It's L.A. - the land of filmdom with an over abundance of actors and professionals who could pull this off, easily.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 06, 2011, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: ~Souza~
Quote from: TS_comments
... And if all else fails: maybe the paramedic accidently bumped the monitor off switch, between the video and the still photo!    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL, nice try! Do you think that if that flash was THAT bright, we would have a picture at all? That would definitely reflect agains the window causing nothing but light. And not very professional for an EMT to bump the off switch when you are dealing with a dying patient that needs urgent monitoring. Besides that, that's just guessing and we can not build a coherent theory on that, you know that  :lol:   ;)

Can't you see, the paramedic is reaching over to turn the monitor back on--that is why his face is turned, and his right hand is over by the monitor!    :lol: :lol: :lol:

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)

Of course, I am only joking.    :lol:

And as mdc pointed out ...
Quote
But seems to me that where you see the paramedics shadow on the screen it would have blocked the flash, and even with a shadow the screen should be visible if turned on, more so even I would think. JMO and maybe I'm wrong but I think that monitor is off.

The picture above has a fairly large area with the monitor screen showing, and most of it is above the shadow line slightly above his arm.  So I think that I've been had, on this one.  Great job, guys--keep it coming!

(I will still try to debunk anything else that I can. :) )
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 06, 2011, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: Grace
The monitor screen colour of ambulance 71 is GREEN.

Cant' make too much out of color difference.  The green looking shot comes from video through an open back door; the blue looking shot comes (theoretically) through a tinted window--and tinting will most likely change the color appearance.

Also, different video cameras can record the same thing, and yet look like different colors during playback.  In fact, it takes a lot of work to synchronize cameras in a multi-camera shoot, so that all the colors from all the cameras look the same.  White balance is part of the trick.  Even the same camera, with a different white balance on a different day, may shoot the same object--and yet the color will look different during playback.  Anyone who has done much video work knows that this is true.

Still, I will give you a "C"--for paying attention to Color!   8-)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 06, 2011, 11:26:13 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please  :mrgreen:
Quote
I also want to add to this: when Ben says that he was calling around to sell his picture the news people weren't to interested in the picture because Farrah had just died. The picture wasn't news worthy until they announced that Michael had died. Then whadda know it is a hot picture after all. So this could also help with determining the timing of when the picture was released online.
[youtube:igpaa37p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4[/youtube:igpaa37p]
Ben says he noticed one picture that Chris got. Ben thought this is a very important picture... About a half hour later he read online that TMZ said Michael Jackson dead. So that means roughly around 1:50 p.m. to 2 p.m. he was looking at the pictures? He learned of Michael's death from TMZ who reported his death 6 mins before Jermaine did.
[youtube:igpaa37p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0LlYK6_e_w[/youtube:igpaa37p]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-j ... ac-arrest/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/)
Michael Jackson Dies
6/25/2009 2:20 PM PDT by TMZ Staff  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We've just learned Michael Jackson has died. He was 50.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/06/25/0625_michael_jackson_mini_launch_2-1.jpg)
Michael suffered a cardiac arrest earlier this afternoon at his Holmby Hills home and paramedics were unable to revive him. We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back.

A source tells us Jackson was dead when paramedics arrived. A cardiologist at UCLA tells TMZ Jackson died of cardiac arrest.

Once at the hospital, the staff tried to resuscitate him but he was completely unresponsive.

A source inside the hospital told us there was "absolute chaos" after Jackson arrived. People who were with the singer were screaming, "You've got to save him! You've got to save him!"

We're told one of the staff members at Jackson's home called 911.

La Toya ran in the hospital sobbing after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Michael is survived by three children: Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine Jackson and Prince "Blanket" Michael Jackson II.

Story developing...

[youtube:igpaa37p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44[/youtube:igpaa37p]
Ben says as soon as he realised he had a good picture he was trying to sell it and he was told by the news people they were not interested because Farrah had passed away also on that day. Then 1 hour later after the news of Michael's death; now they're interested.

If his official time of death is 2:26 p.m. then 1 hour back would be 1:26 p.m. when Ben was "Photo shopping" the pic around...lol  So many contradictions. There is two stories for everything. Even Ben has two stories. :?


This blog is the earliest time frame I could find of when anyone knew about Farrah's death. This is approximate time.

http://hitmanpr.blogspot.com/2009/06/fa ... tt_25.html (http://hitmanpr.blogspot.com/2009/06/farrah-fawcett_25.html)
Quote
Thursday, June 25, 2009
Farrah Fawcett
I am sorry to say our Farrah has passed to a better place and left the pain and confines of her bed behind. She is free to be the woman we all knew and loved. So Few have touched so many. You all keep Fighting the Fight.
Posted by HitmanPR at 9:44 AM

When I was watching ET when they said MJ died I remember them saying they have the first exclusive photo of MJ dying and I am pretty sure that was the day after MJ died.

But it's hard to backtrack sorry.

Edit:

Here is another website (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/18840 ... -body.html (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/188400/photo-of-michael-jacksons-dead-body.html)) using ET exclusive pic of MJ. The date they put on their article is June 26th.


Photo of Michael Jackson's Dead Body?

Friday June 26, 2009

This is the last ever photo of the late Michael Jackson, obtained by US TV show Entertainment Tonight.
(http://cdn.showbizspy.com/static/mjackson_ambulance.jpg)

But was the superstar dead in the pic? Reports have suggested that Jackson, 50, had passed away at his Los Angeles home after paramedics failed to revive him.

Jackson reportedly suffered a cardiac arrest Thursday afternoon at his Holmby Hills mansion and paramedics were unable to bring him back round.

When paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back, according to TMZ. Jackson was apparently dead when paramedics arrived.

Once at the hospital, the staff tried to resuscitate him but he was completely unresponsive. Jackson’s sister La Toya ran in the hospital sobbing after Jackson was pronounced dead.

The star was due to begin a series of comeback concerts with an appearance at London’s O2 arena on July 13.

He had a history of health problems and had not completed a concert tour in 12 years.

Jackson had three children — Michael Joseph Jackson Jr, Paris Michael Katherine Jackson and Prince Michael Jackson II.

Jackson’s body has been flown to the L.A. County Coroner’s Office. His autopsy is scheduled to take place Friday.

It has also been reported that Jackson passed a recent physical, and his death is to be investigated by police.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 06, 2011, 11:51:03 PM
Quote from: ~Souza~

Well TS, I gave it a day or two and I indeed stayed out of trouble hurting my eyes over this picture and the videos. You owe me a pair of glasses and a new brain :lol:

... the reflection of the car doesn't match the car on the scene when you look at the lighting of the sun. The car in the video has no sun reflection in the left (front), while the one in the picture has a lot of sun reflection there. Also the sun reflection on the car in the picture is much more than in the video, where the car is more in the shadow:

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/carsreflection.jpg)

... So whaddya got? 8-)

Here is your pair of glasses, and they come free with a new brain attached to them!   :lol:   :shock:  :lol:

http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg (http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg)

Anyway, the different shadows is another one that is tough to debunk.  I could say that the still is a high resolution camera, and the video is much lower resolution; so the spots of sunlight on the hood of the still could be blurred into the shadows on the video.  But that doesn't work very well, because there are large sunlit areas on the front of the hood in the video, which have shadow (or shadow with small sunlit spots) on the front of the hood in the still.

I guess I will have to go out on a limb here as well (just like the monitor switch), and say maybe the wind was blowing the trees--and that's why the shadows were different only 5 or 10 seconds after the still photo.  :lol:

Do we have a Sherlock Holmes in the house, who can prove whether or not the wind was blowing that afternoon?

Edit: Here is a closer shot of the red car from the video, and the left front wheel area is almost entirely in the shadows--while same left front wheel area in the ambulance photo above (remember it is mirrored; so it looks like the right front, but it's actually the left front) is almost entirely in the sun!

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/CarShadow.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 07, 2011, 12:42:46 AM
TS_comments, you don't want to make us camera-woahh-men, do you?
 :lol:

Txs for inviting us to another "making of".  :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 07, 2011, 12:44:17 AM
I don't get any of this ambulance stuff (with the camera resolution...flash stuff...reflection, neither with...just anything to do with these ambo pics or least of all, the wind on June 25th, how are we supposed to know that?)
I really want to be apart of this but I am just not getting it...maybe I'm just not smart enough.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 07, 2011, 02:06:35 AM
I have a new theory....I think the pictures were taken inside the property...before the ambulance backed out of the gate....you can see the similar vines and the concrete wall..the reflection didn't show people in it...just the red car...but there could have easily been another red car inside the estate....or it was photoshopped into the photo later to make it look like the pictures were taken as the ambulance was leaving..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 07, 2011, 02:39:22 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
I don't get any of this ambulance stuff (with the camera resolution...flash stuff...reflection, neither with...just anything to do with these ambo pics or least of all, the wind on June 25th, how are we supposed to know that?)
I really want to be apart of this but I am just not getting it...maybe I'm just not smart enough.
It seems this is an advanced assignment for physics and logic students, but I'm enjoying reading what all the sharp minds can find here.

If there's one thing I've learned on this thread it's that before I had just thrown the ambulance photo quickly in the fake catagory without giving it much thought. Now I'm almost coming full circle in thinking it's technically possible to be real, but of course it's not (apparantly). With knowledge comes finer appreciation. I'm thinking it must have been pretty much as difficult to create the realistic photo as for people to disprove it. MJ said he liked good art, and this is a masterpiece.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 07, 2011, 02:44:18 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
I have a new theory....I think the pictures were taken inside the property...before the ambulance backed out of the gate....you can see the similar vines and the concrete wall..the reflection didn't show people in it...just the red car...but there could have easily been another red car inside the estate....or it was photoshopped into the photo later to make it look like the pictures were taken as the ambulance was leaving..

That's actually a really a good point...maybe that's why TS wanted us to look at the ambo photo...I hope your right cause that would be just shocking...and if that can be proved non believers will never be able to debunk that...it would be the biggest piece of evidence yet. Also I was thinking when TS said to see it the leaves were blowing on June 25th but that day was sunny and I doubt it would be windy but in the ambo pic it  looks like the leaves (if that's what it's meant to be) were swaying or bending a bit.

You can (sorry I can't draw the circle) but in between down the bottom were the leaves branch out you can almost see branches or a thick solid vine.

Edit:
This is partly what I think the theory is  but using or going off what 2good2btrue has already said.

If MJ did take two different shots on different days as Ben was about to say ("the other da...") then they could possibly have done it in some kind of set, but to make it more realistic it makes sense to do it outside where someone would stage a fake pic (so use the same REAL scenery you would use for the real thing...in this case June 25th). But they couldn't have done it outside MJ's house or someone would of noticed so they must of done it inside his gates.

Also is it possible to get the pic we have now without having to use the ambulance on both days?
What I mean is if there were two days
The other day: was just the reflection picture (so taking a pic outside of the ambulance)
June 25th: Was the ambulance pic (so inside the ambulance with possibly a real body)...(and it must of been a real body because if it was a dummy then the paramedics would of been on the hoax and there wouldn't be a need to change the pic in any way)

So you put those two together (the outside scenery and the inside of a the ambulance and you get the pic we have now...possibly?)
 I am right or wrong TS...can you debunk this theory.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 07, 2011, 03:02:47 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please  :mrgreen:

Here's Grace's very informative post from way back on page 12 (!) when we were discussing this.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 07, 2011, 03:11:17 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Is the red car definitely Ben's?
Does anyone have an answer for me on this one please?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 07, 2011, 04:44:04 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Here is your pair of glasses, and they come free with a new brain attached to them!   :lol:   :shock:  :lol:

http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg

Anyway, the different shadows is another one that is tough to debunk.  I could say that the still is a high resolution camera, and the video is much lower resolution; so the spots of sunlight on the hood of the still could be blurred into the shadows on the video.  But that doesn't work very well, because there are large sunlit areas on the front of the hood in the video, which have shadow (or shadow with small sunlit spots) on the front of the hood in the still.

I guess I will have to go out on a limb here as well (just like the monitor switch), and say maybe the wind was blowing the trees--and that's why the shadows were different only 5 or 10 seconds after the still photo.  :lol:

Do we have a Sherlock Holmes in the house, who can prove whether or not the wind was blowing that afternoon?

Whoah! He hottie! :shock: Is he a friend of yours? Is he single? Can you uhm... hook us up or something? How did you know I find old monkeys without teeth very attractive? :lol: I love his bling too. A former boyfriend gave me one of those once, too bad he attached it to the sink.

Anyways, Shirley Holmes mode **ON**:

(http://www.clipartoday.com/_thumbs/014/ShirleyHolmes_tnb.png)

Not that much wind that day, if any:

[youtube:ty5f9xk0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:ty5f9xk0]

All the shadows stay pretty much the same if you look at the ground. But I can play devil's advocate as well and say that there was a local whirlwind exactly where that tree was... you know??

So, if that makes sense to people, the ambulance picture could still be real (with a lot of imagination that is). If not, we have another piece of evidence that the ambulance picture is bogus.

So far we are sure that the monitor being off and the sun reflection on the care are continuity errors. We also know the leaf pattern is not a reflection and also not part of the interior of the ambulance since it continues over the handle, but disappears behind the sheet and the EMT's arm. We also have the light border in the back that is dark in the picture and in my opinion the blood pressure thing differs as well, looking like a sticker in the picture and like an actual 3 dimensional object in the video. I might have missed something, who wants to fill me in?

What else TS? Still curious about the leaf pattern although I think we pretty much can come to the conclusion that the picture is fake/staged already. But I would love to hear more of your secrets. I still have the feeling there is one thing in that picture we are all overlooking and will give us a duh! moment when it's pointed out to us.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Sarahli on March 07, 2011, 05:02:50 AM
LOL for the monkey. I think that all these discrepancies added together make it hard to say the picture is real.

For the sun, the leaves and the wind... I was wondering about that picture where it seems the car is in full sun...? When on the video it seems like the aera is quite in the shade...i'm lost  :?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/4_proof_pic.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 07, 2011, 06:05:51 AM
What if the red car is actually inside the compound as the picture was taken, and it looks eerily like Randys red car....There were rumours that Randy was at the house the other day, or that day..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on March 07, 2011, 08:00:47 AM
The shadows are something that has bothered me from the beginning.  I had mentioned them early on, however, more in reference to the time of day.  For some reason, when I watch the ambulance backing up video, I feel like the time of day is off.  The shadows seem longer to me than they should be.  Also, in the ambulance video taken from the tourist bus, the shadows seem different.....a different day, a different time, etc.  With regards to the wind, there was slight wind in L.A. that day.  Here is a post about the weather.  It has a link to a great site about past weather:
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=14929&hilit=+weather (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=14929&hilit=+weather)
I still contend the shadows are very important.  And yes, Souza I feel that same, "Dah!" moment coming, LOL!  I feel like we are in a live version of a Rubik's Cube.....just when we line one thought up, another one gets jumbled!  
Anyways...hope everyone is doing well!  
Many blessings always!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 07, 2011, 08:43:51 AM
I wrote a post related to the differences in the 4 pics, but deleted it since I have no idea what are we disecting now. What was the question?

In resume, about the differences:
-Paramedics arm: Is he having a lump? or is just the sadow of the photoshop melting with the pic?
-Distance between paramedics arm and gray sit on the wall.
-Bag bottom left, yelow label, different text.
-MJ´s hair on the shoulder near the tube (which seems to have blood btw), different curls, added curls or removed curls.
-Paramedics knee, underneeth of it: metal piece of something and a white colour coach?. Even if the pic 4 is cutted of the bottom, that part is weird in all 4 pics.

(The rest i wote I forgot..)

Again, what´s the question? :oops:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mjaliveomg on March 07, 2011, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
What if the red car is actually inside the compound as the picture was taken, and it looks eerily like Randys red car....There were rumours that Randy was at the house the other day, or that day..

no..the red car from ambulance pics its a chevrolet, randy's car is a porsche.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 07, 2011, 09:37:10 AM
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12244)
I am not an expert in photography, but the image is very clear, moving the ambulance and the photographer also, and seems that the paramedics are posing, that supposes that resuscitation must do cardio pulmonary not this one doing, it seems that this slope of another thing, and other one not to press the bag of oxygen for anything
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: thepeacock2012 on March 07, 2011, 11:03:25 AM
Well if we believe Michael is in charge of this hoax then we have to assume that Michael put that face there...so my next question would be why and what does it mean or symbolize. :?:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 07, 2011, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please  :mrgreen:

Here's Grace's very informative post from way back on page 12 (!) when we were discussing this.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463)
Thank you. I had already read Grace's post about the tweets. We never came to a final conclusion on the time frame. It was mostly a rough draft as far as I could tell. The rough draft time frame was sometime on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m. The time zone wasn't established yet. So I was trying to use what Ben stated in his videos to narrow down the time frame even more.

@MJhasSpoken: Thank you for helping me.
@2good2btrue: I agree that it is very possible regarding your new theories (Picture taken inside the gates and Randy's car). Nevermind on the car. lol


(http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg)
Right about now this is exactly how I feel and look.  ;)

P.S. I am getting a little confused on the ambulance pics regarding the screen(s) and which is a screen and which is a cabinet. From what I have read it appears that some are saying the monitor is behind the paramedic who is holding the resuscitation  bag. Is that right? Or is it that huge looking screen thing behind the other paramedic?

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: navibl on March 07, 2011, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please  :mrgreen:

Here's Grace's very informative post from way back on page 12 (!) when we were discussing this.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463)
Thank you. I had already read Grace's post about the tweets. We never came to a final conclusion on the time frame. It was mostly a rough draft as far as I could tell. The rough draft time frame was sometime on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m. The time zone wasn't established yet. So I was trying to use what Ben stated in his videos to narrow down the time frame even more.

@MJhasSpoken: Thank you for helping me.
@2good2btrue: I agree that it is very possible regarding your new theories (Picture taken inside the gates and Randy's car). Nevermind on the car. lol


(http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg)
Right about now this is exactly how I feel and look.  ;)

P.S. I am getting a little confused on the ambulance pics regarding the screen(s) and which is a screen and which is a cabinet. From what I have read it appears that some are saying the monitor is behind the paramedic who is holding the resuscitation  bag. Is that right? Or is it that huge looking screen thing behind the other paramedic?

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)

It apprears to me that there is a padded back rest behind the parmedic standing, to the left of the gauge.  And in the 4th picture that TS originally posted there looks like a face on it as well.  Eyes, nose mouth.  Heck there are faces everywhere.  We need to play "Sea of Faces' by Kutless in the background.  LOL
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mjj4ever777 on March 07, 2011, 01:58:04 PM
Hi everyone. I have been sitting back watching this thread for days now and I just noticed something that really sticks out to me in the picture!! The ambulance attendant is performing chest compressions with only one hand!!! :o This is almost as bad as Murray performing CPR on the bed!! :lol:  :lol: I don't know why I didn't see this before! Also the other ambulance guy isn't compressing air into MJ, so whenever this pic was taken, it doesn't look like they were actually trying to revive MJ at all...well at least not at the moment the pic was taken...I find that very strange!!

This was my "DUH" moment!!  :lol: Is this one of the things you wanted us to find TS??

Sending you all LOVE!! :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bleu eyes on March 07, 2011, 02:01:53 PM
mjj4ever777, same thought here ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 07, 2011, 02:15:53 PM
I don't think anyone commented on Purelove's pic find. Is it simply someone's silly doctoring of the pic--bald head, no real ear, long hair just laying there underneath. I guess it's nothing.
[attachment=0:5t99xaug]2e3ok6f[1].jpg[/attachment:5t99xaug]

mjj4ever777
Well they are both making sure their right arms aren't showing. :? Both looking away at other things at the same second.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 07, 2011, 02:19:38 PM
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 07, 2011, 02:41:46 PM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture.

That's good to know.

About CPR with one hand and about CPR on the bed.....I was talking to a friend who has an 89 years old grandmother who lives with her and one day last year she saw her grandmother was on the bed not breathing. She is not a doctor and had no idea how she should do CPR.
Under the impuls of the moment she just started pushing her grandmother's chest untill the old woman's heart started beating again. She never knew CPR is supposed to be performed on a hard surface, but without her intervention her grandmother would have been dead.

I just don't understand how Michael couldn't be brought back to life by an army of doctors and my friend saved her grandmother without any medical knowledge.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 07, 2011, 02:49:03 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture.

I just don't understand how Michael couldn't be brought back to life by an army of doctors and my friend saved her grandmother without any medical knowledge.


Maybe that's why Murray took 80 minutes for call an ambulance.  ;)
Everything may have been minimally designed by Michael. After 80 minutes, nobody can be raised and remain alive without sequelae.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 07, 2011, 03:11:56 PM
Quote from: "mjj4ever777"
Hi everyone. I have been sitting back watching this thread for days now and I just noticed something that really sticks out to me in the picture!! The ambulance attendant is performing chest compressions with only one hand!!! :o This is almost as bad as Murray performing CPR on the bed!! :lol:  :lol: I don't know why I didn't see this before! Also the other ambulance guy isn't compressing air into MJ, so whenever this pic was taken, it doesn't look like they were actually trying to revive MJ at all...well at least not at the moment the pic was taken...I find that very strange!!

This was my "DUH" moment!!  :lol: Is this one of the things you wanted us to find TS??

Sending you all LOVE!! :D
That's been brought up before. It's not unusual to end up doing CPR with one hand. Especially when it's been continuing for 45 minutes. And anyone who has been asystolic that long is not going to survive, unfortunately.

Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.
Limo tint is TOTALLY different than an ambulance tint. An ambulance tint is just like a car tint. And you can take a photo through it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bleu eyes on March 07, 2011, 03:44:32 PM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.

I'm confused now :? , i have a friend who is a photographer, he works for magazines and stuff, i asked him to look at the pictures and he said that it is possible to take the picture, he added that you can see the reflection of the flash light in the glass, it's the round light spots you see at the right side of the window (it looks like sunlight drops).
And if the inside lights in the ambulance are on, (as i presume they are) it's even easier to take the picture.
He also said that it was'nt one picture taken.( but we knew that already). and that the leaves are photoshopped.
 My Question: why they could take pictures of britney Spears and miss Gabor , was this ambulance with clear glass :?:  


I hope your friend of a friend can get this picture ,i'm looking forward to them ,and i'm very curious. ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 07, 2011, 04:17:50 PM
We re doing biiiig circles... (We had most of this data collection already available on MJHD on August 11, 2009)  ;)
As to the timing of the photo publication - seems we have to get technical first.
Hope that Ben and Michael, you both enjoy.  

OK, let's go.
Question: Is it possible to determine the creation date of the famous photographs?
Answer: Yes, indeed, we can determine the creation date of a photograph.
How's that feasible?
As we have set our minds on digitalization processes for about every information we are dealing with these days, photographs too have become nothing else than "digital data". They are consisting of pixels, all these small points on a screen, that may drive us mad when they are not where we would like them to appear. These pixels are representing digital data like your emails in cc: mail or your documents in your desktop file explorer. When you create your files, there is a creation date, when you modify them, there is a modification date.
Same applies for digital photographs.

The description of "when and how" data for a digital photograph may be found in the EXIF data, a kind of "passport" appendix to the photograph file. This technical image "passport" is a little bit more detailed than the data for your Windows Explorer files.

The EXIF data of one of the famous photos (I'll go for the ET Online HD version of picture #4) are telling us the following. I am not citing in full length and I will only pick out some interesting details.
For a first round, I am assuming the EXIF data are true as provided.

1) Creation of photo
Quote
Basic Image Information
Description:   ©NATIONAL PHOTO GROUP
Emergency crews respond to the home of Michael Jackson where he was treated medically and then rushed to UCLA Medical Center.
Job: 062509J4
EXCLUSIVE June 25th, 2009 Los Angeles, CA
nationalphotogroup.com
Creator:   National Photo Group
Camera:   Nikon D200
Lens:   24 mm
Exposure:   Auto exposure, Shutter priority AE, 1/250 sec, f/4.5, ISO 400

Date:   June 25, 2009   12:08:08PM (timezone is 7 hours behind GMT)
Date/Time Original   2009:06:25 12:08:08-07:00

Date/Time Digitized   2009:06:25 12:08:08-07:00

2) Upload to desktop and manipulation of digital material via Adobe Fireworks software.
Quote
It is available as a standalone product or bundled with Adobe Creative Suite. Fireworks' user interface is consistent with the rest of Adobe Creative Suite, similar to that of Adobe Photoshop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Fireworks
Quote
Creator Tool   Adobe Fireworks CS3
Create Date   2009:06:25 16:22:43-07:00
Metadata Date   2009:06:25 16:22:43-07:00

3) Creation of additional meta data via Adobe XMP software - like text etc.
XMP is meant to create, modify and store "meta data" of an image, thus the technical description - Adobe XMP is a software used for this purpose.
Quote
XMP — this group of metadata is encoded in 17,845 bytes (17.4k)
XMP Toolkit   Adobe XMP Core 4.1-c034 46.272976, Sat Jan 27 2007 22:37:37
Make   NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model Name   NIKON D200
Modify Date   2009:06:25 23:31:53Z

Light Source   Flash
Flash Fired   True
Flash Return   Return detected
Flash Mode   Unknown
Flash Function   False
Flash Red Eye Mode   False
Format   image/jpeg
Description   ©NATIONAL PHOTO GROUP Emergency crews respond to the home of Michael Jackson where he was treated medically and then rushed to UCLA Medical Center. Job: 062509J4 EXCLUSIVE June 25th, 2009 Los Angeles, CA nationalphotogroup.com
Creator   National Photo Group
Rights   National Photo Group
Headline   Michael Jackson Rushed to Hospital in Ambulance
Instructions   000
Credit   National Photo Group
City   Los Angeles
State   CA
Country   USA
Color Mode   RGB
ICC Profile Name   sRGB IEC61966-2.1

So all of the above combined with what we know in addition boils down to the
following timeline:


Photo created:
Date:   June 25, 2009   12:08:08PM (timezone is 7 hours behind GMT)
Date/Time Original   2009:06:25 12:08:08-07:00

911 called at 12:21.

Paramedics arrived at 12:26.

Michael declared dead 2:26 pm.

Photo uploaded to desktop:
Create Date   2009:06:25 16:22:43-07:00 (4:22 pm)

One of the first tweets about the published photo appeared before 6:03 pm.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463

Photo meta data supplemented for image database:
Modify Date   2009:06:25 23:31:53Z (11:31 pm)


Conclusion after first round:
there was not much time left for shopping the picture, to be exact: 1 hour and 41 minutes
- given the EXIF data and the rest of data were true.


Round two - question:
How come that the image creation should have taken place at 12:08 and not after 12:21 when paramedics had officially arrived?

Answer alternatives:
1) The EXIF data are false - June 25 being correct but the time set was wrong - which should not happen for a professional paparazzi photographer being paid at a 60% commission for a sold photograph upon which his agency has a legal property claim and may have to prove this.

2) The EXIF data are false - the time set was correct but the date set was wrong - which shouldn't happen to a professional either.

3) The EXIF data are correct - June 25 being correct but the take did not place in Los Angeles thus did happen in another time zone.

4) The EXIF data are correct - June 25 being correct and the time set is correct but the take did not place on the street but beforehand in the mansion's courtyard.
This means that not only Ben / Chris were in but also the paramedics.
For the staff of the house to notice what was going on - no problem since there is no window on the left side of the ambulance and it was parked in parallel to the wall inside the gates.
The shots of the red car could have been taken beforehand. Everything well prepared just to fit the "official shots" in.
1.5 hourse could be sufficient time for a professional photoshopper oops creative artist. rhhhmmhrhrhrmm....

However selling in parallel an egg that is not yet fully painted for the plan of half of a lifetime to come true?
rhhhmmhrhrhrmm....

And what about waiting for 2 hours until the declaration of the passing to start working on the picture on a desktop if it is THE hot sales item of that day?
rhhhmmhrhrhrmm....

That's the pic:
(http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg)

That's the EXIF data of this pic in full length:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?dummy=on&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.etonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto%2F2009%2F06%2F98268%2F400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 07, 2011, 04:44:59 PM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
(...)This is partly what I think the theory is  but using or going off what 2good2btrue has already said.

If MJ did take two different shots on different days as Ben was about to say ("the other da...") then they could possibly have done it in some kind of set, but to make it more realistic it makes sense to do it outside where someone would stage a fake pic (so use the same REAL scenery you would use for the real thing...in this case June 25th). But they couldn't have done it outside MJ's house or someone would of noticed so they must of done it inside his gates.

Also is it possible to get the pic we have now without having to use the ambulance on both days?
What I mean is if there were two days
The other day: was just the reflection picture (so taking a pic outside of the ambulance)
June 25th: Was the ambulance pic (so inside the ambulance with possibly a real body)...(and it must of been a real body because if it was a dummy then the paramedics would of been on the hoax and there wouldn't be a need to change the pic in any way)

So you put those two together (the outside scenery and the inside of a the ambulance and you get the pic we have now...possibly?)
 I am right or wrong TS...can you debunk this theory.


This is what I also believe in.
One day they shot an inside photo with fake paramedics - actors, the other day they shot a live scene in front of the Carolwood gates - with actually nobody inside or at least MJ sitting on a stretcher. :D

Actually when I first saw the "death photo" I thought it must have been done in the EVENING  :shock: and a few years ago! I even thought it could have been a real photo when MJ was rushed to the hospital in 1990's due to his chest problems... These red reflections looked to me like some street lights, like neon lights.

The other thing that struck me in this short film was actually the terrible acting on the part of all the people surrounding the backing ambulance... It looks like from a poor quality reality show.... Sorry MJ...  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 07, 2011, 04:48:23 PM
First and foremost I would like to thank TS for the redirect.
It's a great honor, and I feel like I'm standing in front of millions accepting some type of award.
 

And anyone can quote me on this, so I'll go ahead and put the little quote thingys on it for you:
"If no one payed any attention to the picture in 09, then we have learned to make sure we leave nothing out. Because there was no post about it in 09 right?
 It was only talked about briefly in the chat room. It intrigued me. SO I researched it.
Also did anyone think that perhaps TS was not in the chat room at the time
and didn't see the topic being brought up? No instead we decide to attack the person who's topic was used as a redirect.
MJ does play fair. MJ loves all of us."


(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/Steffy_Levina/iadoreyou1bk.jpg)


Probably means nothing but, my post was posted Feb 25th, 2011 at 6:25
2+2+5+2+1+1 = 13 = 1+3 = 4
6+2+5 = 13 = 1+3 = 4
4+4 = 8

This was NOT planned. beLIEve what you may...but
Ever since I have started researching this, I have gotten a lot of 7s and 8s.
I'm starting to find that I feel somewhat like Jim Carrey in 23. Lol.

Remember. Respect. L.O.V.E

oV Peace to all

And if you are reading this MJ....
I L.o.v.e You
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 07, 2011, 04:49:24 PM
Oh my that last post of mine equaled 4! Lol
4+8=12
1=2=3
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 07, 2011, 04:52:33 PM
One more thing.
The Hollywood Tonight video is premiering on my birthday March 10th.
Happy Birthday to me!
<3
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 07, 2011, 04:59:39 PM
Wow Grace, your blue post a few posts back is amazing! I never knew this data was available - I'm very impressed that you knew about it and were able to locate it (being the non techie person that I am!). Brings up a whole load more questions I think.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
I don't think anyone commented on Purelove's pic find. Is it simply someone's silly doctoring of the pic--bald head, no real ear, long hair just laying there underneath. I guess it's nothing. (http://i55.tinypic.com/2e3ok6f.jpg)


Thank you MJonmind for reminding about the picture I posted. It seems like people do not read what everyone posts and that's the reason why we have this discussion for 24 pages. Thank you for realizing what I was trying to say and show. This picture is one of the pictures I found out btw all of our ambulance pictures. And this picture was there on the very first day like the other ambulance pictures. So I wonder what's wrong with this picture. Is this photoshopped of the photoshopped picture? Or is this someone else in the ambulance? Or is that a reflection of outside on MJ's face? But if it is a reflection, then why don't we have the same reflection on the other pictures? What do you guys think about it? TS I would be appreciated if you share your opinion about this picture. Thank you.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 07, 2011, 05:08:53 PM

@Grace thanks for bringing up the EFIX info, we have that too and I totally forgot about that. So to me it makes sense that the following happened:

Ben and his crew were there "the other day" to take some shots of the red car for the reflection and probably to talk some things through for hoax day.

Ben and crew arrive on the morning of June 25th, take the picture through the window of some other ambulance. They can make sure it's perfect because the ambulance is standing still and maybe doesn't even have tinted windows. They can make sure there is no other reflection this way, so that they can add the reflection of the red car later on.

911 was called, EMT's arrived and stayed at the mansion for quite some time. I have always thought that was odd, since you would take a patient with cardiac arrest to the hospital a.s.a.p. Probably they had to talk some stuff through and yes, that means that the EMT's are in on it, and in my opinion there is no way they can't be in on it until someone shows me a logical explanation about how they won't have to be.

The ambulance is backing out to make sure they will have the ambulance in the position they want. If the ambulance would not have been backing out, the the window would have been pointed towards the streets with lots of people, firetruck etc, which would make it impossible to get a matching reflection. I also think it was driving that slow because someone was giving the driver instructions about how and where to turn, to make sure the ambulance would have the right position when Chris made the picture.

You would still have the ambulance at the mansion which they used to make the picture, but there was a huge ass truck 2 days later leaving the house, and it looks as though an ambulance would fit into it:

(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/06/27/0627_mj_moving_vans_spl109923_004-1.jpg)

Maybe Mike was there on June 25 and was really in the ambulance disguised as EMT for example, but that would mean that the closing down of LAX that morning had nothing to do with the hoax. I personally think that ike hightailed it that morning, and gave instructions when needed through the phone. Murray was after all on the phone most of the time.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 07, 2011, 05:17:27 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
I don't think anyone commented on Purelove's pic find. Is it simply someone's silly doctoring of the pic--bald head, no real ear, long hair just laying there underneath. I guess it's nothing. (http://i55.tinypic.com/2e3ok6f.jpg)


Thank you MJonmind for reminding about the picture I posted. It seems like people do not read what everyone posts and that's the reason why we have this discussion for 24 pages. Thank you for realizing what I was trying to say and show. This picture is one of the pictures I found out btw all of our ambulance pictures. And this picture was there on the very first day like the other ambulance pictures. So I wonder what's wrong with this picture. Is this photoshopped of the photoshopped picture? Or is this someone else in the ambulance? Or is that a reflection of outside on MJ's face? But if it is a reflection, then why don't we have the same reflection on the other pictures? What do you guys think about it? TS I would be appreciated if you share your opinion about this picture. Thank you.
I remember that one very well!
This pic was shown by a person from this forum (or the other one) to a professional paramedic to get their opinion about the whole scene. This person blurred MJ face so as not to suggest anything. So this is actually the MJ pic with his face blurred by one of the forum members... (I'm sorry, I can't remember who this person was - If you are reading this - please stand up!  :lol:  
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 07, 2011, 05:19:32 PM

I just thought of something else. If the picture is a photoshop, which we think it is, and it has different layers, then would the EFIX be of the background picture? Because maybe the reflection picture was taken at 12:08 pm and the inside of the ambulance "the other day". Does anyone know if you can decide which layer would be the main layer that gives the info, or that it is automatically the background picture? Or is it the one you open, edit and safe, regardless of where you will put the layer of the original picture?

I hope you get what I mean... If someone can tell me how I can find the EFIX info of a picture, I can try it myself.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.

Did you see this post of mine? Here are other celebrities' ambo pictures. But I realized that all of these pictures were taken from the back window of the ambulance. The back windows are tinted too in the ambulances? Or is it only the side windows? Because if the back windows are tinted also, these prove that pictures can be taken with tinted windows.

Quote from: "PureLove"
I was checking out for other celebrities' ambulance pictures to make a comparison btw Michael's and them. I found Zsa Zsa Gabor's and Britney Spears' ambulance pictures. Britney's were taken at night but still it can give us an idea if pictures can be taken from tinted windows. And Gabor's pictures are good examples about how the background and the camera reflects on the window. Here they are.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/33p62l2.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/ety1x0.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/292qhzn.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/15rfar9.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
I don't think anyone commented on Purelove's pic find. Is it simply someone's silly doctoring of the pic--bald head, no real ear, long hair just laying there underneath. I guess it's nothing. (http://i55.tinypic.com/2e3ok6f.jpg)


Thank you MJonmind for reminding about the picture I posted. It seems like people do not read what everyone posts and that's the reason why we have this discussion for 24 pages. Thank you for realizing what I was trying to say and show. This picture is one of the pictures I found out btw all of our ambulance pictures. And this picture was there on the very first day like the other ambulance pictures. So I wonder what's wrong with this picture. Is this photoshopped of the photoshopped picture? Or is this someone else in the ambulance? Or is that a reflection of outside on MJ's face? But if it is a reflection, then why don't we have the same reflection on the other pictures? What do you guys think about it? TS I would be appreciated if you share your opinion about this picture. Thank you.
I remember that one very well!
This pic was shown by a person from this forum (or the other one) to a professional paramedic to get their opinion about the whole scene. This person blurred MJ face so as not to suggest anything. So this is actually the MJ pic with his face blurred by one of the forum members... (I'm sorry, I can't remember who this person was - If you are reading this - please stand up!  :lol:  

Thank you for explaining the situation. I've never heard it was made by a believer. I do remember we were talking about this picture and this person in the pic is someone else and they photoshopped MJ's face on that person. That is the story of the pic I remember. I guess I missed the part it was made by a believer.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on March 07, 2011, 05:41:28 PM
Staring at the ambu picture for almost 30 min, I still can't figure it out.The mask and the bag valve of the resustication kit doesn't look familiair, I mean I've never seen a blue oxygen mask like that before (may be common in the US?). The tube which connects the mask and the bag valve seems too long. May be I'm wrong and is this a regular ambu resustication kit :?  

Just thinking The song "Behind The Mask" could also be meant literally :lol:  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 07, 2011, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
 
Thank you for explaining the situation. I've never heard it was made by a believer. I do remember we were talking about this picture and this person in the pic is someone else and they photoshopped MJ's face on that person. That is the story of the pic I remember. I guess I missed the part it was made by a believer.


I got it. This is the thread from the other forum if you are interested.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4254&p=106110&hilit=blurred+face+paramedic#p106110

They say someone posted it into the paramedic forum to get the answer... They blurred MJ's face for the reasons I stated above. :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 05:48:05 PM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Quote from: "PureLove"
 
Thank you for explaining the situation. I've never heard it was made by a believer. I do remember we were talking about this picture and this person in the pic is someone else and they photoshopped MJ's face on that person. That is the story of the pic I remember. I guess I missed the part it was made by a believer.


I got it. This is the thread from the other forum if you are interested.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4254&p=106110&hilit=blurred+face+paramedic#p106110

They say someone posted it into the paramedic forum to get the answer... They blurred MJ's face for the reasons I stated above. :)

The issue was discussed on the other forum. That must be the reason why I missed it. I'm not a member there so I guess I can not view the page but still thank you so much for the link and the info. :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 07, 2011, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: "everlastinglove_MJ"
Staring at the ambu picture for almost 30 min, I still can't figure it out.The mask and the bag valve of the resustication kit doesn't look familiair, I mean I've never seen a blue oxygen mask like that before (may be common in the US?). The tube which connects the mask and the bag valve seems too long. May be I'm wrong and is this a regular ambu resustication kit :?  

Just thinking The song "Behind The Mask" could also be meant literally :lol:  ;)
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but the picture you posted uses a mask with the BVM. In the MJ picture, the patient is intubated and the tube is connected to the BVM. There is no mask in the ambulance photo. Does that help?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 07, 2011, 06:33:39 PM

Okay, so I found the EFIX stuff and tried some things and whatever you do with the picture is stored in the history of the EFIX file. Not sure if that is also the case when you import your pictures directly from your camera to Fireworks, add layers and file info and then save, but as far as i can see it will show that you shopped it. But if that would be the case, there is a very logical solution:

Shop the picture as much as you want, print it and take a picture from the shopped picture. Problem solved.

I did find out that the picture is indeed probably not photoshopped TS, because Ben seems to prefer Fireworks. Figures... :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 07, 2011, 06:37:02 PM
TS's redirect post =5
My redirected post = 2

5+2=7
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 07, 2011, 06:41:06 PM
http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2011/02/look-inside-ambulance-71.html
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 07, 2011, 07:03:21 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.

Did you see this post of mine? Here are other celebrities' ambo pictures. But I realized that all of these pictures were taken from the back window of the ambulance. The back windows are tinted too in the ambulances? Or is it only the side windows? Because if the back windows are tinted also, these prove that pictures can be taken with tinted windows.

Quote from: "PureLove"
I was checking out for other celebrities' ambulance pictures to make a comparison btw Michael's and them. I found Zsa Zsa Gabor's and Britney Spears' ambulance pictures. Britney's were taken at night but still it can give us an idea if pictures can be taken from tinted windows. And Gabor's pictures are good examples about how the background and the camera reflects on the window. Here they are.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/33p62l2.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/ety1x0.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/292qhzn.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/15rfar9.jpg)


The ambulances windows in the back are tinted. If you take a picture where the glass is not tinted in the front, you need to be in a certain angle ,yes you can take pictures and you get the results. But if you take the picture directly on the black tinted glass you do not get anything, just a blur... In Montreal the windows are tinted back and on the sides, in front they are not, so anyone can take a picture by the front and get the to take a nice picture.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 07, 2011, 08:02:16 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/06/27/0627_mj_moving_vans_spl109923_004-1.jpg)

This truck is very large, within that property there are plenty of space for that truck between and the back and hit the front, the ambulance went slowly in setback for " give time to the photographer to take photos "
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 07, 2011, 08:08:53 PM
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.

I'm confused now :? , i have a friend who is a photographer, he works for magazines and stuff, i asked him to look at the pictures and he said that it is possible to take the picture, he added that you can see the reflection of the flash light in the glass, it's the round light spots you see at the right side of the window (it looks like sunlight drops).
And if the inside lights in the ambulance are on, (as i presume they are) it's even easier to take the picture.
He also said that it was'nt one picture taken.( but we knew that already). and that the leaves are photoshopped.
 My Question: why they could take pictures of britney Spears and miss Gabor , was this ambulance with clear glass :?:  


I hope your friend of a friend can get this picture ,i'm looking forward to them ,and i'm very curious. ;)
I explained it, if they took the pictures from the front windows, it is not tinted  the pictures can come out. Ifyou take them where the tinted windows are  it does not work. If you cannot see inside with tinted windows how can the camera capture something. Your friend is a photographer, why don't u aske him to take a pic of a limo with tinted windows if he says it can be, you can prove it too. That would be nice we can compare.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 08:11:56 PM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"

The ambulances windows in the back are tinted. If you take a picture where the glass is not tinted in the front, you need to be in a certain angle ,yes you can take pictures and you get the results. But if you take the picture directly on the black tinted glass you do not get anything, just a blur... In Montreal the windows are tinted back and on the sides, in front they are not, so anyone can take a picture by the front and get the to take a nice picture.

Ahh thank you for the info about the back windows. So it IS possible to take pictures with tinted windows as we can see in other celebrities' pictures. They were all taken from the back windows of the ambulances, not from front pictures.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/33p62l2.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/ety1x0.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/292qhzn.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/15rfar9.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 07, 2011, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
TS's redirect post =5
My redirected post = 2

5+2=7
(http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg)

Huh?
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Oh my that last post of mine equaled 4! Lol
4+8=12
1=2=3
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
First and foremost I would like to thank TS for the redirect.
It's a great honor, and I feel like I'm standing in front of millions accepting some type of award.


And anyone can quote me on this, so I'll go ahead and put the little quote thingys on it for you:
"If no one payed any attention to the picture in 09, then we have learned to make sure we leave nothing out. Because there was no post about it in 09 right?
It was only talked about briefly in the chat room. It intrigued me. SO I researched it.
Also did anyone think that perhaps TS was not in the chat room at the time
and didn't see the topic being brought up? No instead we decide to attack the person who's topic was used as a redirect.
MJ does play fair. MJ loves all of us."


(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/Steffy_Levina/iadoreyou1bk.jpg)


Probably means nothing but, my post was posted Feb 25th, 2011 at 6:25
2+2+5+2+1+1 = 13 = 1+3 = 4
6+2+5 = 13 = 1+3 = 4
4+4 = 8

This was NOT planned. beLIEve what you may...but
Ever since I have started researching this, I have gotten a lot of 7s and 8s.
I'm starting to find that I feel somewhat like Jim Carrey in 23. Lol.

Remember. Respect. L.O.V.E

oV Peace to all

And if you are reading this MJ....
I L.o.v.e You
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
One more thing.
The Hollywood Tonight video is premiering on my birthday March 10th.
Happy Birthday to me!
<3
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 08:21:31 PM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black.  I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day,  just the way  enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.

I'm confused now :? , i have a friend who is a photographer, he works for magazines and stuff, i asked him to look at the pictures and he said that it is possible to take the picture, he added that you can see the reflection of the flash light in the glass, it's the round light spots you see at the right side of the window (it looks like sunlight drops).
And if the inside lights in the ambulance are on, (as i presume they are) it's even easier to take the picture.
He also said that it was'nt one picture taken.( but we knew that already). and that the leaves are photoshopped.
 My Question: why they could take pictures of britney Spears and miss Gabor , was this ambulance with clear glass :?:  


I hope your friend of a friend can get this picture ,i'm looking forward to them ,and i'm very curious. ;)
I explained it, if they took the pictures from the front windows, it is not tinted  the pictures can come out. Ifyou take them where the tinted windows are  it does not work. If you cannot see inside with tinted windows how can the camera capture something. Your friend is a photographer, why don't u aske him to take a pic of a limo with tinted windows if he says it can be, you can prove it too. That would be nice we can compare.


Actually it's not true. Pictures can be taken with tinted windows. I watched the videos of Britney and Zsa Gabor getting into the ambulance and the pictures you see were taken from the back window of the ambulance, not from the front window. But maybe ambulance and limo tinted windows are different and maybe you can not take pictures from limo's tinted windows but can take from ambulance's and maybe that's what your friend told.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 07, 2011, 08:28:10 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"

The ambulances windows in the back are tinted. If you take a picture where the glass is not tinted in the front, you need to be in a certain angle ,yes you can take pictures and you get the results. But if you take the picture directly on the black tinted glass you do not get anything, just a blur... In Montreal the windows are tinted back and on the sides, in front they are not, so anyone can take a picture by the front and get the to take a nice picture.

Ahh thank you for the info about the back windows. So it IS possible to take pictures with tinted windows as we can see in other celebrities' pictures. They were all taken from the back windows of the ambulances, not from front pictures.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/33p62l2.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/ety1x0.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/292qhzn.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/15rfar9.jpg)



Maybe not.. We will see a picture that he will take. Look how many limos have celebrities in the back, they always take pictures and the pics never come out. You cannot take a  picture with tinted windows. I have tinted windows on my beamer..(BMW) I will try to take a picture this weekend we shall see what happens. tHE ONLY THING MY tinted windows in the back are not too dark, like ambulances and limos. I will still do a test.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 07, 2011, 08:36:54 PM
@all4loveandbelieve

Can you ask your friend to take a picture from an ambulance's tinted window? Like I wrote in my previous post, ambo and limo tinted windows can be different.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Andrea on March 07, 2011, 08:54:18 PM
So we see the reflection of the leaves in the pic, quite clearly:

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

I guess what I don't understand is...why are there leaves on the ground?  Late June is not normally when leaves fall off the trees, and they're really brown, like they've been there for a while.  

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Wall area behind the red car (starting at 1:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4


The leaves are above the wall too, on the ground so maybe it's a mix of leaves and normal ground "flooring" that you would find under large trees.  But wouldn't such a posh neighbourhood contain that leaf mess to above the wall, where it should be, and get cleaned up from the ground below the wall?  I'm wondering if the leaves were placed on the ground for the purpose of reflecting in the ambulance photo.  Like a prop or something.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: dom425 on March 07, 2011, 09:03:53 PM
I wish Michael was here posting clues. I asume that he is not doing this for the best  reason I can think of. If he did then what would be the point of the whole hoax....... Just a vacation for him and veryone who does not like him? I think not. The best thing is that we are finding things that are or aren't  apart of the hoax as a team.  As one and only one united with God and Michael we will then relise the true meaning of unity. That is what I believe he is trying and has been trying for so many years to tell the world. Unfortunitly  he has to fake his death not only to be free of danger but to make us finally see that we all are created equal. I believe that he is doing this at an important time in history. The world seems to be very full of hate  so  Michael is helping every person to become a better man or women.
I pray that we will never forget Michael's great sacrifise for all of us. Long live the king!!!
P.S I'am sorry for what I just said it has nothing to really do with this topic. I just felt that I needed to share my beliefs.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 07, 2011, 09:33:07 PM
Please look at my MJ Alive Army Forum

Me and a close friend of mine have been working on this for a very long time.

We are finding new clues and "coincidences" at least 5 times a day now without fail.

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

REMEMBER> RESPECT> L.O.V.E

oV peace to you all
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 07, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
@all4loveandbelieve

Can you ask your friend to take a picture from an ambulance's tinted window? Like I wrote in my previous post, ambo and limo tinted windows can be different.


No they are the same quality, it is only degrees of tint. It can be that the limo tint may be darker than the ambulance tint. I will see if he can take a picture, I cannot guarantie it since I do not know this person. I will do a test on my car, but like I said my car tint is not that dark, so you can see something.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 07, 2011, 11:59:02 PM
Quote from: "curls"
Ok just thinking out loud here. If I go along with the idea that the photo was made on 'the other day', does that have to mean hoax?

You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK)  So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.

Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!

Why would they spend the time and money staging an ambulance shot—not knowing where he might be on his final day, or what kind of ambulance might pick him up?  He was leaving for London in a few days, and surely ambulances in London are different than the LAFD ones.  What a waste of time and money, if MJ lived for just a few more days, and then left for London!  Or what if he was out of town for a day, even before going to London?  Or what if he kicked the bucket, and went straight to the coroner’s office (no ambulance involved)?  It is highly unlikely that anyone would spend time and money staging a picture in an LAFD ambulance (or an LAFD exact look-alike), on the chance that MJ would go to the hospital soon in an LAFD ambulance.

Nevertheless, I do give you credit for “trying to come up with ALL possibilities”  :)


Quote from: "Grace"
This agency would hang around Michael every day since they wanted to be the one and only MJ picture agency.
So I do not put too much weight on him saying "the people that were hanging out there yesterday and the other day". They were there every day.

The agreement could be simply "a % provision in case of a good take" as would go in every photographer's contract for an agency. This is participation of the involved people after selling the pics to news agencies.
This is not getting my attention either.

As you mentioned, you wrote this a long time ago; but since you quoted it, maybe you still consider that this is a realistic possibility.  If so, here is my response.

First of all, if that was the case, then there is no explanation for why Ben reacted with all the signs of a Freudian slip—interrupting himself, blinking his eyes, turning away from the camera, stammering for a few seconds, etc.

Secondarily, the grammar of his statement (even though slightly incomplete) points rather strongly to two specific days: “that day” (June 25, 2009) “and the other d ... [ay]” (staged ambulance pictures day).  If Ben was merely referring to paps getting paid for being out there day after day, his wording should’ve been something like this: “that day and other d ... [ays]” (no definite article “the”); or “that day and those other d ... [ays]” (indicating plural, even without finishing the word “days”); or simply “day after day”, or something similar.

Ben’s slip up is not only a strong evidence of the ambulance photo being fake; but as I said before, it is a very strong point for hoax and not murder {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886}.  I don’t see any way around this slip, other than merely saying that he goofed.  But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "curls"
Ok just thinking out loud here. If I go along with the idea that the photo was made on 'the other day', does that have to mean hoax?

You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK)  So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.

Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!

Why would they spend the time and money staging an ambulance shot—not knowing where he might be on his final day, or what kind of ambulance might pick him up?  He was leaving for London in a few days, and surely ambulances in London are different than the LAFD ones.  What a waste of time and money, if MJ lived for just a few more days, and then left for London!  Or what if he was out of town for a day, even before going to London?  Or what if he kicked the bucket, and went straight to the coroner’s office (no ambulance involved)?  It is highly unlikely that anyone would spend time and money staging a picture in an LAFD ambulance (or an LAFD exact look-alike), on the chance that MJ would go to the hospital soon in an LAFD ambulance.

Nevertheless, I do give you credit for “trying to come up with ALL possibilities”  :)


Quote from: "Grace"
This agency would hang around Michael every day since they wanted to be the one and only MJ picture agency.
So I do not put too much weight on him saying "the people that were hanging out there yesterday and the other day". They were there every day.

The agreement could be simply "a % provision in case of a good take" as would go in every photographer's contract for an agency. This is participation of the involved people after selling the pics to news agencies.
This is not getting my attention either.

As you mentioned, you wrote this a long time ago; but since you quoted it, maybe you still consider that this is a realistic possibility.  If so, here is my response.

First of all, if that was the case, then there is no explanation for why Ben reacted with all the signs of a Freudian slip—interrupting himself, blinking his eyes, turning away from the camera, stammering for a few seconds, etc.

Secondarily, the grammar of his statement (even though slightly incomplete) points rather strongly to two specific days: “that day” (June 25, 2009) “and the other d ... [ay]” (staged ambulance pictures day).  If Ben was merely referring to paps getting paid for being out there day after day, his wording should’ve been something like this: “that day and other d ... [ays]” (no definite article “the”); or “that day and those other d ... [ays]” (indicating plural, even without finishing the word “days”); or simply “day after day”, or something similar.

Ben’s slip up is not only a strong evidence of the ambulance photo being fake; but as I said before, it is a very strong point for hoax and not murder {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886}.  I don’t see any way around this slip, other than merely saying that he goofed.  But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc.


Thank you so much. You're awesome. :D
Just wanted to say that.

oV Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on March 08, 2011, 12:23:36 AM
Quote
TS said:
I don’t see any way around this slip, other than merely saying that he goofed. But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc.


If it was indeed a goof on Ben's part, wouldn't they just be able to re-film it?  I see it as something we are to learn from....for some reason.  What is it that he's really trying to say?  Why was it left in the interview and not edited...because we needed to see it.  His reaction is somewhat vague, I think.  I always felt he was hiding something.  Also, when I see the video of his screen, the picture looks off to me, however, I can't really figure why?  Perhaps, it's just me!  
Goof or no goof, Ben was up to something for sure.  
I call it a purposeful-goof  ;)

Blessings Always!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 08, 2011, 12:27:10 AM
I wouldn't call Ben's slip "goofing".
He had to get into the role on "the other side" and experience what it's like to be in the public and media's eye - for once in his life. No wonder he was not used to that.  ;)
In the end - at least in the understanding of the majority of spectators, the outcome was not harmed (even if some may have gotten really nervous). Ben did not make the curtain come down, not even with this rhhhmrmrmmmm.... We even started to like him for that slip - a pap finding sympathy among the public, what a strange development is this, isn't it?
Everything's possible with love.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 08, 2011, 12:44:24 AM
The curtain did not come down with all other inconsistencies and absurdities either. I wonder if Michael did expect this massive wall of ignorance. It really makes you go scream once in a while.
No, Ben did not harm any outcome and the fact we were presented this footage is only giving away that we can safely assume it was not assessed as a potential to bring the curtain down.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: scorpionchik on March 08, 2011, 01:06:59 AM
2 different stories of Ben:

1st story: "An ambulance comes out, we don't know whose in it.You know, maybe it's Michael maybe it's his family member or his staff or something. So we go up to the window of the, the ambulance and try to get some pictures. You know, just put the camera angainst the thing and get some pictures. You know, maybe it's a good story for us and um it came out- Again, we don't know whose in it at that point...."

2nd story for Crime Scene: "When I arrived around 12:40 the ambulance was inside the gates, there was a fire truck that was parked outside on the street. I was doing video and I could see the call screen and it said 50 year old man not breathing. At a certin point I could see the paramedics exiting the house with a stretcher. I moved closer to the gate, it was a difficult shot to get but I could see that it was Michael"

http://seeingclues.blogspot.com/2010/02 ... erent.html (http://seeingclues.blogspot.com/2010/02/ben-evenstad-two-completely-different.html)

Is he trying to sell his story, get a fame, or he is really in hoax? If he is in hoax and Michael planning to come back, why Ben needs to twist stories and make people to believe Michael is dead. This is fucking confusing. Same as with family. they give clues, slip ups, then suing AEG and keep saying that Michael was killed, is dead. Why it can't be either or? Give clues and shut up, or don't give any clues, just say he is gone.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: scorpionchik on March 08, 2011, 01:51:40 AM
Here is another finding about time picture was taken by Ben, some fire that was happening to the neighbor house (something new).

http://theresurrectionmj.wordpress.com/ ... -evenstad/ (http://theresurrectionmj.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/ben-evenstad/)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 08, 2011, 02:12:38 AM
Hi TS, were waiting for you to debunk more theories..................or not.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: sandythyme on March 08, 2011, 08:09:54 AM
Hi Everybody, I am going to look foolish but I need to ask this....First, I don't have good computer technology so I  can't view what you all are viewing, youtubes, videos etc. So I am left out in the dark with a lot of this stuff.  Also, my brain has been very confused with a lot of this info.  So please help me with this.  The staged "other day" photo so to speak,  there couldn't have been an ambulance at Michael's house say on the 24th of June as people would have noticed.  So the staged ambulance photo was done on a set?  Then the layers of photoshopped leaves, ambulance, red car were added?  So was this a test run for the actual photo taken on the 25th?  So maybe Ben was there on the 24th taking pictures or trees, walls and surroundings.  Windy that day, not so windy on the 25th. Also, different time of day, lighting difference.  Sorry I sound stupid.  All I know is when I have to do a photo shoot for my business, I have to set everything up the day before which takes hours, shoot it, look at the photo, rearrange things, shoot again, break everything down and set everything up the next day at the studio in a time frame of 10 minutes or less!  I only get  2 photos so I have to get it right. So staging a photo is important to get the actual job, photo correct.  So that' what happened here?  Staged photo on a set with added photoshopped layers and then another photo taken on the actual day with added photoshopped layers?  Sorry, I just want to understand and keep up.  Thanks for your understanding in advance.  Take care, Love to All
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 08, 2011, 08:30:38 AM
Didn't Oxman say that the picture in the ambulance was a fake? Here is the video stating so.. I posted some more videos to see the difference of MJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxDVREww8GA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxDVREww8GA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On0WUNWCebo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On0WUNWCebo)

Hope this will help. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 08, 2011, 09:02:34 AM
Just because I feel it's appropriate to put these here. If you hadn't seen the thread from a WHILE ago, these were pictures I had taken:

With Flash
(http://i49.tinypic.com/20z3f42.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/311ugiq.jpg)

Without Flash
(http://i45.tinypic.com/1zl7uck.jpg)

This is through an ambulance window, however the ambulance was inside, not outside. The intention was to see if it was possible to take a photo through an ambulance window, and it is possible. It is also the same angle as the ambulance photo with (supposedly) MJ.

Also, please keep in mind that this was taken with a simple digital camera, not the high tech equipment photographers use. I also am not that great with a camera, and don't know what settings would be appropriate to take the best photo with my camera, and the paparazzi I'm sure know.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 08, 2011, 09:03:19 AM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
Didn't Oxman say that the picture in the ambulance was a fake? Here is the video stating so.. I posted some more videos to see the difference of MJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxDVREww8GA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxDVREww8GA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On0WUNWCebo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On0WUNWCebo)

Hope this will help. Blessings.
He said he THINKS it's fake. Never confirmed it, and unfortunately, it didn't go anywhere after that.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 08, 2011, 09:38:52 AM
I have seen your pics before LadyMedic, and if I'm not mistaken they were taken without light on the outside and with light on the inside. That's the other way around and it makes sense that you would be able to see though the window. Not so sure about an ambulance with the lights off and sunny outside.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 08, 2011, 10:14:34 AM
Quote
steffymjlove wrote:

Please look at my MJ Alive Army Forum

Me and a close friend of mine have been working on this for a very long time.

We are finding new clues and "coincidences" at least 5 times a day now without fail.

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

REMEMBER> RESPECT> L.O.V.E

oV peace to you all

Thank you for the link i am going to read ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Elsa on March 08, 2011, 10:23:17 AM
This link is to FireFighterNation.com.  There are some interesting reactions from real emergency personnel about the events of 25 June 2009 - like CPR on the bed, and why they worked on him for so long before transportation. http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/ ... s-response (http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-ems-response).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 08, 2011, 10:24:12 AM
I have a couple of questions, that I know we've covered, but with so much info on our site now, I didn't know where to sift it from.
I've looked on the net and articles say Murray rode in the ambulance with Michael.  Actually all I've found say that.  So is it our opinion that he did?  Where would a man his size sit in that ambulance?  
And, in the pics of Michael being removed from the amb.  was Murray there getting out also?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 08, 2011, 10:38:00 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "curls"
Ok just thinking out loud here. If I go along with the idea that the photo was made on 'the other day', does that have to mean hoax?

You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK)  So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.

Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!

Why would they spend the time and money staging an ambulance shot—not knowing where he might be on his final day, or what kind of ambulance might pick him up?  He was leaving for London in a few days, and surely ambulances in London are different than the LAFD ones.  What a waste of time and money, if MJ lived for just a few more days, and then left for London!  Or what if he was out of town for a day, even before going to London?  Or what if he kicked the bucket, and went straight to the coroner’s office (no ambulance involved)?  It is highly unlikely that anyone would spend time and money staging a picture in an LAFD ambulance (or an LAFD exact look-alike), on the chance that MJ would go to the hospital soon in an LAFD ambulance.

Nevertheless, I do give you credit for “trying to come up with ALL possibilities”  :)


Quote from: "Grace"
This agency would hang around Michael every day since they wanted to be the one and only MJ picture agency.
So I do not put too much weight on him saying "the people that were hanging out there yesterday and the other day". They were there every day.

The agreement could be simply "a % provision in case of a good take" as would go in every photographer's contract for an agency. This is participation of the involved people after selling the pics to news agencies.
This is not getting my attention either.

As you mentioned, you wrote this a long time ago; but since you quoted it, maybe you still consider that this is a realistic possibility.  If so, here is my response.

First of all, if that was the case, then there is no explanation for why Ben reacted with all the signs of a Freudian slip—interrupting himself, blinking his eyes, turning away from the camera, stammering for a few seconds, etc.

Secondarily, the grammar of his statement (even though slightly incomplete) points rather strongly to two specific days: “that day” (June 25, 2009) “and the other d ... [ay]” (staged ambulance pictures day).  If Ben was merely referring to paps getting paid for being out there day after day, his wording should’ve been something like this: “that day and other d ... [ays]” (no definite article “the”); or “that day and those other d ... [ays]” (indicating plural, even without finishing the word “days”); or simply “day after day”, or something similar.

Ben’s slip up is not only a strong evidence of the ambulance photo being fake; but as I said before, it is a very strong point for hoax and not murder {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886}.  I don’t see any way around this slip, other than merely saying that he goofed.  But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc.


it seems to me that the slip-ups by both jermaine and ben give the impression that something significant happened prior to june 25th. we were told by cherlyn lee that michael contacted her on fathers day which was the 21st. to my mind that could easily be the  other day. that  leaves me wonder how would an ambulance get in and out without causing a stir. but maybe the other day he didn't have to go in the ambulance. :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 08, 2011, 10:55:44 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
I wouldn't call Ben's slip "goofing".
He had to get into the role on "the other side" and experience what it's like to be in the public and media's eye - for once in his life. No wonder he was not used to that.  ;)
In the end - at least in the understanding of the majority of spectators, the outcome was not harmed (even if some may have gotten really nervous). Ben did not make the curtain come down, not even with this rhhhmrmrmmmm.... We even started to like him for that slip - a pap finding sympathy among the public, what a strange development is this, isn't it?
Everything's possible with love.  ;)

Grace, I love how you think. This sounds like the beginnings of a "Happily Ever After" ending, ALL around, to me!  8-)  

:D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 08, 2011, 11:17:57 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "curls"
Ok just thinking out loud here. If I go along with the idea that the photo was made on 'the other day', does that have to mean hoax?

You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK)  So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.

Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!

Why would they spend the time and money staging an ambulance shot—not knowing where he might be on his final day, or what kind of ambulance might pick him up?  He was leaving for London in a few days, and surely ambulances in London are different than the LAFD ones.  What a waste of time and money, if MJ lived for just a few more days, and then left for London!  Or what if he was out of town for a day, even before going to London?  Or what if he kicked the bucket, and went straight to the coroner’s office (no ambulance involved)?  It is highly unlikely that anyone would spend time and money staging a picture in an LAFD ambulance (or an LAFD exact look-alike), on the chance that MJ would go to the hospital soon in an LAFD ambulance.

Nevertheless, I do give you credit for “trying to come up with ALL possibilities”  :)


Quote from: "Grace"
This agency would hang around Michael every day since they wanted to be the one and only MJ picture agency.
So I do not put too much weight on him saying "the people that were hanging out there yesterday and the other day". They were there every day.

The agreement could be simply "a % provision in case of a good take" as would go in every photographer's contract for an agency. This is participation of the involved people after selling the pics to news agencies.
This is not getting my attention either.

As you mentioned, you wrote this a long time ago; but since you quoted it, maybe you still consider that this is a realistic possibility.  If so, here is my response.

First of all, if that was the case, then there is no explanation for why Ben reacted with all the signs of a Freudian slip—interrupting himself, blinking his eyes, turning away from the camera, stammering for a few seconds, etc.

Secondarily, the grammar of his statement (even though slightly incomplete) points rather strongly to two specific days: “that day” (June 25, 2009) “and the other d ... [ay]” (staged ambulance pictures day).  If Ben was merely referring to paps getting paid for being out there day after day, his wording should’ve been something like this: “that day and other d ... [ays]” (no definite article “the”); or “that day and those other d ... [ays]” (indicating plural, even without finishing the word “days”); or simply “day after day”, or something similar.

Ben’s slip up is not only a strong evidence of the ambulance photo being fake; but as I said before, it is a very strong point for hoax and not murder {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886}.  I don’t see any way around this slip, other than merely saying that he goofed.  But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc.


it seems to me that the slip-ups by both jermaine and ben give the impression that something significant happened prior to june 25th. we were told by cherlyn lee that michael contacted her on fathers day which was the 21st. to my mind that could easily be the  other day. that  leaves me wonder how would an ambulance get in and out without causing a stir. but maybe the other day he didn't have to go in the ambulance. :?

Maybe they took the ambulance in while the paps were off taking pictures of MJ going in and out of doctor's offices?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)

Thank you Purelove.

I beLIEve that someone who will remain nameless is showing MJ and everyone on this forum how they truly feel. It made me cry to read that MSN chat.

**NOTE**

Yes I got a redirect. And I am honored.
Some people who are going to remain nameless are acting jealous like children on a playground.

It's awesome amazing and wonderful that I got to use the jungle gym.
Again thank you TS.
And thank you MJ.

MJ if you are reading this:

Please forgive them for they know not what they do.
I love you.
Most of the people on this site love you.

I can not wait for your return.
I love this game. I love that you are a genius.
I respect you with all of my heart and soul.
I love the clues you pass to others to show.
I myself have found many of them.
I wait for more every day.
Please continue. <3

Please check out my forum if you have not,

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

With all of my heart and soul.



REMEMBER>RESPECT

SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
LOVE

oV Peace to you all
(even if some of you who will remain nameless are saying this that i know for a fact is very wrong and ignorant in many ways)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 08, 2011, 02:00:34 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
I have a couple of questions, that I know we've covered, but with so much info on our site now, I didn't know where to sift it from.
I've looked on the net and articles say Murray rode in the ambulance with Michael.  Actually all I've found say that.  So is it our opinion that he did?  Where would a man his size sit in that ambulance?  
And, in the pics of Michael being removed from the amb.  was Murray there getting out also?
He would sit on the giant bench seat that is out of view in the photo (on the patient's left).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 08, 2011, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)

Thank you Purelove.

I beLIEve that someone who will remain nameless is showing MJ and everyone on this forum how they truly feel. It made me cry to read that MSN chat.

**NOTE**

Yes I got a redirect. And I am honored.
Some people who are going to remain nameless are acting jealous like children on a playground.

It's awesome amazing and wonderful that I got to use the jungle gym.
Again thank you TS.
And thank you MJ.

MJ if you are reading this:

Please forgive them for they know not what they do.
I love you.
Most of the people on this site love you.

I can not wait for your return.
I love this game. I love that you are a genius.
I respect you with all of my heart and soul.
I love the clues you pass to others to show.
I myself have found many of them.
I wait for more every day.
Please continue. <3

Please check out my forum if you have not,

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

With all of my heart and soul.



REMEMBER>RESPECT

SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
LOVE

oV Peace to you all
(even if some of you who will remain nameless are saying this that i know for a fact is very wrong and ignorant in many ways)

Wow, Steffy ... I almost died when I heard the voice of Michael. Tava distracted!  :lol:
What a wonderful voice!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 08, 2011, 02:47:58 PM
Quote
fordtocarr wrote:
I have a couple of questions, that I know we've covered, but with so much info on our site now, I didn't know where to sift it from.
I've looked on the net and articles say Murray rode in the ambulance with Michael. Actually all I've found say that. So is it our opinion that he did? Where would a man his size sit in that ambulance?
And, in the pics of Michael being removed from the amb. was Murray there getting out also?

I also read that Murray was in the ambulance but there is no evidence, or when it comes to the hospital,..may be that Murray did not attend that section of photo :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 08, 2011, 02:56:07 PM
[youtube:3kdzhu68]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSvbE5x3uHs&feature=fvwrel[/youtube:3kdzhu68]

Since this thread has gone somewhat off topic and a few posts recently are not relevant to the famous Michael Jackson ambulance picture; I may as well throw my random thoughts into the mix.  ;) lol

I am getting a bit bored now so forgive my short attention span!  :shock:

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 08, 2011, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)

Thank you Purelove.

I beLIEve that someone who will remain nameless is showing MJ and everyone on this forum how they truly feel. It made me cry to read that MSN chat.

**NOTE**

Yes I got a redirect. And I am honored.
Some people who are going to remain nameless are acting jealous like children on a playground.

It's awesome amazing and wonderful that I got to use the jungle gym.
Again thank you TS.
And thank you MJ.

MJ if you are reading this:

Please forgive them for they know not what they do.
I love you.
Most of the people on this site love you.

I can not wait for your return.
I love this game. I love that you are a genius.
I respect you with all of my heart and soul.
I love the clues you pass to others to show.
I myself have found many of them.
I wait for more every day.
Please continue. <3

Please check out my forum if you have not,

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

With all of my heart and soul.



REMEMBER>RESPECT

SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
LOVE

oV Peace to you all
(even if some of you who will remain nameless are saying this that i know for a fact is very wrong and ignorant in many ways)

Steffy, the chat bec posted was her own, one she had with me and she posted it here because she wanted to show people how she felt at that moment the way she expressed it to me. There is nothing wrong with that so I don't understand your comment "Please forgive them for they know not what they do."

Also, please stop spamming your forum link. Simply make a thread about it if you want in general talk, but stay on topic next time.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)

Thank you Purelove.

I beLIEve that someone who will remain nameless is showing MJ and everyone on this forum how they truly feel. It made me cry to read that MSN chat.

**NOTE**

Yes I got a redirect. And I am honored.
Some people who are going to remain nameless are acting jealous like children on a playground.

It's awesome amazing and wonderful that I got to use the jungle gym.
Again thank you TS.
And thank you MJ.

MJ if you are reading this:

Please forgive them for they know not what they do.
I love you.
Most of the people on this site love you.

I can not wait for your return.
I love this game. I love that you are a genius.
I respect you with all of my heart and soul.
I love the clues you pass to others to show.
I myself have found many of them.
I wait for more every day.
Please continue. <3

Please check out my forum if you have not,

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

With all of my heart and soul.



REMEMBER>RESPECT

SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
LOVE

oV Peace to you all
(even if some of you who will remain nameless are saying this that i know for a fact is very wrong and ignorant in many ways)

Wow, Steffy ... I almost died when I heard the voice of Michael. Tava distracted!  :lol:
What a wonderful voice!


Thank you! I know that you will enjoy my forum :)
Me and my partner have put so much into it so far..and we are finding at least 5 new clues and coincidences everyday. I don't see how some people can say that there is nothing new.
We sure are finding them.

L.O.V.E
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 03:21:05 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)

Thank you Purelove.

I beLIEve that someone who will remain nameless is showing MJ and everyone on this forum how they truly feel. It made me cry to read that MSN chat.

**NOTE**

Yes I got a redirect. And I am honored.
Some people who are going to remain nameless are acting jealous like children on a playground.

It's awesome amazing and wonderful that I got to use the jungle gym.
Again thank you TS.
And thank you MJ.

MJ if you are reading this:

Please forgive them for they know not what they do.
I love you.
Most of the people on this site love you.

I can not wait for your return.
I love this game. I love that you are a genius.
I respect you with all of my heart and soul.
I love the clues you pass to others to show.
I myself have found many of them.
I wait for more every day.
Please continue. <3

Please check out my forum if you have not,

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

With all of my heart and soul.



REMEMBER>RESPECT

SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
LOVE

oV Peace to you all
(even if some of you who will remain nameless are saying this that i know for a fact is very wrong and ignorant in many ways)

Steffy, the chat bec posted was her own, one she had with me and she posted it here because she wanted to show people how she felt at that moment the way she expressed it to me. There is nothing wrong with that so I don't understand your comment "Please forgive them for they know not what they do."

Also, please stop spamming your forum link. Simply make a thread about it if you want in general talk, but stay on topic next time.


Ok thank you I will not post it on this thread any more. I didnt consider it spamming.
But this is your forum.
TS redirected to my thread on here.
I was just trying to spread MJ's message.

Again thank you.

REMEMBER L.O.V.E
RESPECT
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 08, 2011, 03:21:23 PM
Ben Türkçe biliyor musun? :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 03:24:58 PM
Also,

Souza, can you please show a thread on here where I can post my website?

Thank you so much.

With the utmost respect and l.o.v.e

~SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
:)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Ben Türkçe biliyor musun? :?

Öyle mi?

lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 08, 2011, 03:34:23 PM
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Also,

Souza, can you please show a thread on here where I can post my website?

Thank you so much.

With the utmost respect and l.o.v.e

~SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
:)
General talk...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 08, 2011, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Also,

Souza, can you please show a thread on here where I can post my website?

Thank you so much.

With the utmost respect and l.o.v.e

~SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
:)
General talk...

Thank you.
You're awesome.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 08, 2011, 04:31:57 PM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Here is another finding about time picture was taken by Ben, some fire that was happening to the neighbor house (something new).

http://theresurrectionmj.wordpress.com/ ... -evenstad/ (http://theresurrectionmj.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/ben-evenstad/)

They say here there is some soft that can tell the time the pic was taken  and this is telling us that the pic was taken on June 25th 2009 but at 12:08, before the 911 call and before the arrival of the ambulance. But who knows if it's true or not  :?  ?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on March 08, 2011, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "everlastinglove_MJ"
Staring at the ambu picture for almost 30 min, I still can't figure it out.The mask and the bag valve of the resustication kit doesn't look familiair, I mean I've never seen a blue oxygen mask like that before (may be common in the US?). The tube which connects the mask and the bag valve seems too long. May be I'm wrong and is this a regular ambu resustication kit :?  

Just thinking The song "Behind The Mask" could also be meant literally :lol:  ;)
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but the picture you posted uses a mask with the BVM. In the MJ picture, the patient is intubated and the tube is connected to the BVM. There is no mask in the ambulance photo. Does that help?

Yes, thanks for your reply, it's clear to me now. I don't know why I mentioned the mask in the first place, because a mask isn't needed when intubated and MJ was. The resustication kit looked strange to me. Anyway, I was looking for clues, but sometimes I'm overdoing it a bit :roll:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 08, 2011, 08:06:03 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Just because I feel it's appropriate to put these here. If you hadn't seen the thread from a WHILE ago, these were pictures I had taken:

With Flash
(http://i49.tinypic.com/20z3f42.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/311ugiq.jpg)

Without Flash
(http://i45.tinypic.com/1zl7uck.jpg)

This is through an ambulance window, however the ambulance was inside, not outside. The intention was to see if it was possible to take a photo through an ambulance window, and it is possible. It is also the same angle as the ambulance photo with (supposedly) MJ.

Also, please keep in mind that this was taken with a simple digital camera, not the high tech equipment photographers use. I also am not that great with a camera, and don't know what settings would be appropriate to take the best photo with my camera, and the paparazzi I'm sure know.

Thank you so much for confirming pictures can be taken with tinted windows. We were discussing about that issue.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 08, 2011, 08:32:49 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Quote
TS said:
I don’t see any way around this slip, other than merely saying that he goofed. But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc.


If it was indeed a goof on Ben's part, wouldn't they just be able to re-film it?  I see it as something we are to learn from....for some reason.  What is it that he's really trying to say?  Why was it left in the interview and not edited...because we needed to see it.  His reaction is somewhat vague, I think.  I always felt he was hiding something.  Also, when I see the video of his screen, the picture looks off to me, however, I can't really figure why?  Perhaps, it's just me!  
Goof or no goof, Ben was up to something for sure.  
I call it a purposeful-goof  ;)

Blessings Always!

Hi wishingstar!  I'm not sure you (and Grace) understood my statement about Ben's "goof".  Sure, it could've been an intentional clue; I specifically said that in my first comment about this: "Whether intentional or accidental ..." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886}.

Remember, I am trying to tackle this investigation from the perspective of an unbeliever--who is trying to debunk the hoax; and no unbeliever will say that Ben was giving an intentional hoax clue.  Therefore, as I said last time: "I don’t see any way around this slip [for unbelievers], other than merely saying that he goofed.  But that would not explain why he goofed, or the words that came out when he goofed, or his own reaction when he realized that he goofed, etc."

As far as re-filming the interview with Ben: one thing many don't seem to realize, the whole world is not already an insider on the hoax.  So even if Ben's slip was accidental, and not an intentional clue, they probably would not re-film it; because that would draw even more attention to the slip in the minds of the interviewers.

On a slightly different note: Good news, graduation is coming soon!  :o  8-)   Stay tuned!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 08, 2011, 08:48:35 PM
Ok now it is my turn to play the devil's advocate. :lol: I will assume that Michael's picture is not fake and compare it with Gabor's ambo picture. These were taken in a day light, and both were taken from tinted windows.
Here is the first picture we can discuss about.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/35aswur.jpg)

We can clearly see the hand of the photographer, as well as the camera. There're trees at the background and we can see the reflection of the leaves on the window. But do they look like a leaf pattern inside of the ambulance? No they don't. BUT it depends on where the sun was at the moment the picture was taken. In Michael's picture, there was shadows of trees and that could cause the leaf pattern looked like an inside design.
Here is the second picture.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/330frr9.jpg)

When the photographer was taking this picture, he proped up his camera to the window to get a clear shot and the black hole thing on the window is the camera's reflection on window. Again trees and leaf behind.

And Michael's picture.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/ig9soj.jpg)

I've always written that there is not a reflection of the person who took the picture. But we should remember that there was a man who was wearing a red shirt. And red color can not be too visible on a red background as the man was standing in front of the red car. I made the green circle to show you the body (the red t-shirt) of the guy. And in the yellow circle there is a camera. It doesn't look like it is part of the car's headlight. About why we can not see the head of the guy. It's probably because it is on EMT's black pants. In Gabor's pictures the photographer was so close to the window but in Michael's the photographer is not that close to the window and that can be the reason why we do not have a better reflection of him.

I'm trying to think like a non-believer and ugghhh this is hard.
:lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 08, 2011, 09:32:06 PM
Quote from: "TS_Comments"
On a slightly different note: Good news, graduation is coming soon!     Stay tuned!

What do you mean by 'graduation' :shock: :?
Can someone explain to me? :lol: :oops: Graduating from the hoax, or this subject? I'm confused. :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 08, 2011, 09:38:46 PM
Whoojooooo!!! Hey TS, what color should the toga be? Are we gonna have a prom?  :lol:


(http://www.fungiftideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Graduation.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on March 08, 2011, 10:10:35 PM
Oh good gracious, TS you stress me out(in a good way), lol!  True....going at it from an un-believer's point of view, it seems like an honest, nervous, trip-of-the-tongue moment.  Which is probably why nobody has called him on it.  Before I looked at things with hoax eyes, I took things at face value(mostly).  However, if it's one thing I have learned better from all this....is to look at everything clearly and really think things through.  By the term, "hoax eyes" I do not mean I criticize everything and don't believe in anything. I mean I look at all sides and draw my own conclusion.  For this particular video, I drew a conclusion for myself that Ben was up to something.  TS, you had brought up the question of why he goofed, what words came out when he goofed, or is own reaction when he goofed.  For an unbeliever it was a simple goof, a trip up, like I said.  For us here, we need to think outside that box and dig around.  I feel there must have been at least two takes for this interview.  Here is the link to look at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4)
Watch the area we are talking about...4:09 is the slip
look at the items on the desk: a mouse, mouse pad, phone, paper/pen
Now, take a look at 4:18 a large camera appears with a couple of remotes...the phone is gone.
To me, this is more than just a break in talking/filming...perhaps Ben received a phone call?  That is why the phone is moved.  Perhaps that's why he slipped...a phone call.  The phone does have a light blinking at the slip.  As for the words that came out; "....Chris and the other people that were there that day and the other da.......are part of that agreement are going to make a lot of money, absolutely..."  Are part of that agreement.....agreement how to split the money? Agreement for the hoax? Agreement to what exactly? His reaction to the goof/slip I feel was cut...that is when we see a change in desk items.
So, where does that leave us?  A slip, a goof, accidental or intentional....Ben was up to something.  He is paparazzi, it's in his blood!
Thank you for the response TS.  I hope all is well for you.  Have a beautiful day!
Blessings Always!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 08, 2011, 10:52:27 PM
@ TS, does that mean someone has found the answers to the ambo pic or does that mean your going to tells us?

Also you still haven't challenged the Inside MJ's Gate theory. :)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 09, 2011, 12:02:28 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
@ TS, does that mean someone has found the answers to the ambo pic or does that mean your going to tells us?

Also you still haven't challenged the Inside MJ's Gate theory. :)


Waiting...waiting....waiting....please TS, let us know whether it was taken inside the gates....


Do you mean we will be "Certified" soon.... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Hurry....The white van is coming to take me away..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 09, 2011, 02:22:32 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Hurry....The white van is coming to take me away..

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Looks like I still can laugh  :(

So is the pic fake or not in the end  :? ?
Why there is no reflection of the photgrapher?

Why the paramedics say they didn't recognize Michael when we clearly see it is him in the pics? Are they blind or they don't know MJ?

As about the leaf pattern, still in between if it is chinese writting or Peter Pan walking out of the ambulance!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 09, 2011, 03:59:51 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Bec I'm kinda lost with your post. It's probably because of the terrible headache I have. Do you mean the person in the chat was TS? I didn't understand why you posted the msn chat you made? Sorry if I got it wrong. Totally lost.

EDIT: I think you posted your chat to make Michael understand what you feel like. Got it.
 :)

Thank you Purelove.

I beLIEve that someone who will remain nameless is showing MJ and everyone on this forum how they truly feel. It made me cry to read that MSN chat.

**NOTE**

Yes I got a redirect. And I am honored.
Some people who are going to remain nameless are acting jealous like children on a playground.

It's awesome amazing and wonderful that I got to use the jungle gym.
Again thank you TS.
And thank you MJ.

MJ if you are reading this:

Please forgive them for they know not what they do.
I love you.
Most of the people on this site love you.

I can not wait for your return.
I love this game. I love that you are a genius.
I respect you with all of my heart and soul.
I love the clues you pass to others to show.
I myself have found many of them.
I wait for more every day.
Please continue. <3

Please check out my forum if you have not,

http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love (http://www.wix.com/mjalivearmy/love)

With all of my heart and soul.



REMEMBER>RESPECT

SteffyLoveMJ
aka MJArmyAngel
LOVE

oV Peace to you all
(even if some of you who will remain nameless are saying this that i know for a fact is very wrong and ignorant in many ways)

Steffy, the chat bec posted was her own, one she had with me and she posted it here because she wanted to show people how she felt at that moment the way she expressed it to me. There is nothing wrong with that so I don't understand your comment "Please forgive them for they know not what they do."

Also, please stop spamming your forum link. Simply make a thread about it if you want in general talk, but stay on topic next time.


Actually expressing oneself is very healthy, we need to express what we feel , and how we feel towards this situation(hoax).We need to empty our body of all the bad inside.  What I feel is that if we do, some of the members will attack you, and will misunderstand you. Bec was misunderstood, but I am glad she wrote how she felt. We all went through a tough journey, and still going through, but we must not give up. I am angry, and tired of this, it is close to 2 yrs. Now I know how the cops feels when they are investigating murders and it takes them yrs. So my friends, let's have courange faith and  positveness, and the answer will come out soon. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 09, 2011, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
[
 So my friends, let's have courange faith and  positveness, and the answer will come out soon. Blessings.

Soon......They told about Jesus he was coming soon and we're still waiting, after 2000 years.....

Hope we won't have to find ways to live that long to see the BAM :roll:

Wasn't very possitive, sorry.....but you told us it's healty to express our feelings. And I subscribe to it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 09, 2011, 04:42:29 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
On a slightly different note: Good news, graduation is coming soon!  :o  8-)   Stay tuned!

Sounds good!

You know TS, you have made yourself impopular again with this with certain people, even through you have challenged us in this thread to come up with solid proof that the ambulance picture is fake. People are again losing faith so easily. How is that possible? This certainly would be a great forum to study human nature although you probably already have to be graduated on that to understand it....

So what's next? We have exactly 2 months left before the trial will start, so I guess you can challenge us some more.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 09, 2011, 09:00:46 AM
Gabor this picture through the glass shows that it can be done through a polarized glass ladymedic also demonstrated, it is difficult to prove to an unbeliever that Ben could have been a slip. What does not fit is what the paramedics said that Michael did not recognize that seemed an old man
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 09, 2011, 10:17:24 AM
Right, and he really needs a BAM anyway? Certainly won't do Michael too much good.....
I can imagine the hysterical media tearing him apart :cry:

So, if there is someone who has any idea what that leaf pattern means...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 09, 2011, 10:30:11 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
[
 So my friends, let's have courange faith and  positveness, and the answer will come out soon. Blessings.

Soon......They told about Jesus he was coming soon and we're still waiting, after 2000 years.....

Hope we won't have to find ways to live that long to see the BAM :roll:

Wasn't very possitive, sorry.....but you told us it's healty to express our feelings. And I subscribe to it.

GINAFELICIA. one thing don't compare Michael to Jesus, please. There is only one Jesus. I love Michael very much I apraise him, but not like jesus. Yes you can express your feelings, and it is fine to feel this way. I feel like giving up, honestly, but I say to myself perseverance, like the story of the little train, I think I can,I think I can, and he did. So we can do it to. I think we should open a thread only on complains, and negativity, how we feel inside, so everyone can share ,  write it down and it will feel better. This is one excercise that I do with my patients, and it works. If Souza will not mind if we open a thread with how we feel, how angry some of us are, than maybe we should consider it. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 09, 2011, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"

You know TS, you have made yourself impopular again with this with certain people, even through you have challenged us in this thread to come up with solid proof that the ambulance picture is fake. People are again losing faith so easily. How is that possible?
May be because the ambo pic was said to be fake since day one.

Quote
This certainly would be a great forum to study human nature
:P

Quote
So what's next? We have exactly 2 months left before the trial will start, so I guess you can challenge us some more.
At times I get the feeling that we are the ones building up the case  :lol: pros and contras like if would be a paper from university or a thesis.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 09, 2011, 01:58:16 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"

So, if there is someone who has any idea what that leaf pattern means...

I also would like to know if the leaf pattern has been discussed or come to a conclusion.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 09, 2011, 02:17:20 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
[
 So my friends, let's have courange faith and  positveness, and the answer will come out soon. Blessings.

Soon......They told about Jesus he was coming soon and we're still waiting, after 2000 years.....

Hope we won't have to find ways to live that long to see the BAM :roll:

Wasn't very possitive, sorry.....but you told us it's healty to express our feelings. And I subscribe to it.

Why are you comparing Michael to Jesus? They're two completely different people with different plans. Jesus has His own time that He's planning to make His glorious come back. It's just like when people mock us by saying "They said tupac's alive too", when they're two completely different people with different situations. :roll:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 09, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Ben Türkçe biliyor musun? :?


 :?:  :?:  :?:  english please lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 09, 2011, 02:46:06 PM
OMG I was comparing the situations, not the persons.
I'm sorry you got me wrong.

It was about how long we have to wait
............
Someone here is so predictable :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 09, 2011, 05:14:04 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
OMG I was comparing the situations, not the persons.
I'm sorry you got me wrong.

It was about how long we have to wait
............
Someone here is so predictable :lol:


What ever the time Michael needs, If he is ready today, well he will come out today, if he is ready in 10 yrs well, it is all up to him, not up to us. I know we want him back yesterday, but we cannot think about our needs, but the needs of Michael. blessings
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mopey3655 on March 09, 2011, 10:48:13 PM
All of this gets so confusing sometimes its hard to keep up and I am trying my best trust me when I say that.  The ambulance pic I don't know what to think of that one thing I know for sure is that it wasn't taken on the 25/06/09 or if it was the fact that it is not real.  If Michael was dead when that pic was taken why would he have an indent in his forehead like he is frowning or something there is a crease between his eyes which means he was alive when that was taken.  I don't know if anyone else notice it but i clearly see frown lines on his forehead between his eyes.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 09, 2011, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Ben Türkçe biliyor musun? :?


 :?:  :?:  :?:  english please lol

That's Turkish. I can help if someone needs. lol
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 09, 2011, 11:53:51 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"

So, if there is someone who has any idea what that leaf pattern means...

I also would like to know if the leaf pattern has been discussed or come to a conclusion.

I think this TS_Comments person is still trying to come up with something credible, on the leaf subject :? ...stalling, gotta ask MJ, who stepped out a minute... "how's that go, again?" :?

I thought (s)he SAID he would explain some leaf things the second or third days of this thread. (Tap, Tap Tap) :)  

I guess I'll go back to studying MICHAEL, and the Dangerous Tour while we wait. :D We haven't even scratched the surface, there. 8-)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 12:25:42 AM
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"

What ever the time Michael needs, If he is ready today, well he will come out today, if he is ready in 10 yrs well, it is all up to him, not up to us. I know we want him back yesterday, but we cannot think about our needs, but the needs of Michael. blessings

Yeah we want him back yesterday  :lol:

But the next reincarnation will do to......except the fact that we shall all be dead until it happends  :(

But coming back to the leaf patter.....nobody has a strong opinion on what that might be?
Because I thought that this TIAI redirection was about that leaf pattern. And we made so little progress, just like in discovering the man we never knew......
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 10, 2011, 01:30:43 AM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Ben Türkçe biliyor musun? :?


 :?:  :?:  :?:  english please lol

That's Turkish. I can help if someone needs. lol


Wow Souza knows how to speak turkish nice. yes Purelove what does it mean?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 10, 2011, 01:31:57 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"

What ever the time Michael needs, If he is ready today, well he will come out today, if he is ready in 10 yrs well, it is all up to him, not up to us. I know we want him back yesterday, but we cannot think about our needs, but the needs of Michael. blessings

Yeah we want him back yesterday  :lol:

But the next reincarnation will do to......except the fact that we shall all be dead until it happends  :(

But coming back to the leaf patter.....nobody has a strong opinion on what that might be?
Because I thought that this TIAI redirection was about that leaf pattern. And we made so little progress, just like in discovering the man we never knew......


If you read the next posting of TS apparently we graduated. It means we found something check it out dear.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 01:57:31 AM
The next posting? What next posting?

Sorry, I think I missed the part where everything about that leaf-pattern became clear.
OK, I'll check all TS-comments latest comments.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 02:02:19 AM
Oh, now I see, new redirect yesteday......just like Souza suggested  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 02:10:25 AM
Anyway, I don't see the conclusion about the leaf-pattern .....can someone help me here to see where this matter was solved?!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 10, 2011, 02:15:14 AM
These were the summaries of TS's conclusions on the leaf pattern, which is that they were not a reflection. It seems we're left hanging, still wondering.
Quote
by TS_comments » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:56 am

The first thing I want to do with the leaf pattern, is show that it just plain can’t possibly be a reflection (or part of the background image).

Okay bec, this time I’m going to give you an “A” for awesome! You took the words out of my fingers (computer keyboard), and you even did the red circles so I don’t have to! Actually, I like it when others come up with the answers before I do. What you just pointed out is one of the strong points about the pattern—both that it is not a reflection, and also that it (probably) is not Photoshopped into the picture.

Notice especially inside the larger red circle: the pattern stops abruptly at the edge of the paramedic’s arm, it does not even fade out gradually—even though the arm at that point is almost as dark as the surrounding background. This indicates strongly that the pattern is actually inside the ambulance, farther away than the paramedic’s arm; and his arm blocks the light of that pattern. If it were a reflection, it would certainly continue to be seen at least somewhat on the edge of his arm—and only fade away in the lighter areas of his arm.

And there are a few other reasons why we may know for sure that this leaf pattern is not some kind of reflection. As I continue to discuss this, I will refer to the five pictures at the beginning of this thread; but I won’t keep posting them here, to save time and space. Instead, I will refer to them as: PatternClose-up, Ambulance1, Ambulance2, Ambulance3, and Ambulance4 (these names can also be found, using right-click and “Properties”).

The Ambulance1 picture has the strongest image of the red car and background, so let’s start by taking a close look at that picture. Notice the curb in front of the car; then notice the ground (and sunlight with shadows) between the curb and wall. The wall itself can’t be seen very much, because there is not much on the wall to be seen (refer again to the wall video, if needed). But you can see the top of the wall; it is a straight line from near the top left of the picture (a little below the paramedic’s patch), and ending a little lower on the right side of the picture (in the bright spot). Above that line, you can see again the ground above the wall (and a little more sunlight reflection).

Now that you have a good view of the entire background picture (and not just the car), notice that the leaf pattern is more than half as tall as the wall; so if it was an image on the wall, being reflected in the ambulance photo, we should easily see that large of an image on the video of that wall—but it’s not there! The wall in the video is almost completely blank.

However, there are some real leaves in the wall video; but they are connected to trees—not just hanging there in mid-space. Yet the leaf pattern in the ambulance photo is isolated, not connected to anything. To make it even clearer: notice again the line which is the top of the wall; it runs clear across the ambulance photo—not broken anywhere by a tree trunk, or even smaller branches. Also the leaves in the photo don’t seem to come close to the size or shape of the leaves in the wall video.

Last but certainly not least: we can eliminate the leaf pattern from being part of the background image, simply by comparing Ambulance1 with Ambulance2. Compare for example the headlight of the red car in the two pictures; the pointed left end is straight under MJ’s mouth in Ambulance1, but straight under the top of his forehead in Ambulance2. The background image has moved significantly to the right between the first and second picture; but the leaf pattern is in the same place.

Yes, a bit more of the leaf pattern goes behind the paramedic’s arm in Ambulance2; but this is a very slight difference, compared to how far the red car has moved. And if the leaf pattern is inside the ambulance (not a reflection): then this slight difference can easily occur from a slight movement in the paramedic’s arm, and/or a slightly different camera position. But if the leaf pattern were part of the background image, then there is no explanation for why it does not move to the right just as much as the red car moves to the right.

So we have three or four real strong reasons here, why the leaf pattern is not a reflection or part of the background image. Unless anyone can debunk these reasons, then we can move on to the next step: more detail on whether the leaf pattern is Photoshopped or not.

Quote
TS_comments » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:23 pm
And while we are looking at these comparison shots, does anybody want to say that the leaf pattern can be seen in both the video and the still, or only in the still? Could this be another evidence of two different ambulances, on two different days (unless the leaf pattern was added in Photoshop--more on that later)?

Sometimes I find that with this hoax investigation, that every answer we get, opens up 10 more questions I didn't have before.  :? :lol:

I think MJ means for us to enjoy the whole process or journey of getting there to BAM, not just jump to BAM and everything's over. Like on the yellow brick road there's so much that's interesting. We should stop to smell the roses, enjoy every little detail MJ has meticulously carefully lovingly positioned into the hoax. I think we'll all be happier for it. We live in such a instant gratification world. I really want to enjoy everything he has planned for us to enjoy. "It's a great adventure."
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 10, 2011, 02:36:43 AM
Is it important to have anybody tell us we found something?
Is it important we found something?
Is it important not anybody else but we found something?
Is it important not anybody else but I found something?
And if it is important either way - to whom is it important?


This is still not a good time for giving a snow-white.


The ambulance photo a dead horse? Not really.
This is the car parking behind the red Toyota Prius that was reflected in the video and photos:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5055/5514472012_8da9f477d3_b.jpg)

It's a SUV. The same SUV is following the caravan to the hospital and Ben claimed to have been the driver (the car could be seen in the tour bus video bypassing and following the 2 SUVs coming out of the gate):
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5015/5512108254_d726decaa8_z.jpg)

This is home to NPG:
National Photo Group, LLC
511 N La Cienega Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90048-2008

On Google streetview, NPG office is in this building on the first floor (Ben's window with the RIP KING paper is on left corner side showing to the side street - so attaching it was not really meant for anybody to read it):
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5512107076_9a2fe7ca4f_z.jpg)

There is an SUV parking (which is... a Cadillac Escalade... hrmrnrhmmnmrnn...):
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/5512107156_6e4722791f_z.jpg)

This is what a Cadillac Escalade looks like:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5012/5511509993_3ca5f29a2e.jpg)

This is the front of a Cadillac Escalade:
(http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/3060000000053588.JPG)

It is a $62,205 - $83,835 vehicle. It is Michael's fleet car.
hrmrnrhmmnmrnn...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 10, 2011, 03:00:07 AM
And these are the SUVs leaving UCLA:
[youtube:13f6se2o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8[/youtube:13f6se2o]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8
hrmrnrhmmnmrnn...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 10, 2011, 03:17:23 AM
A commenter on that site you posted noticed this guy. Hmm...? 8-) Could this be Michael? White coat, ponytail, and loafers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8)
[attachment=0:ww3q5j64]UCLA wh.jpg[/attachment:ww3q5j64]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: TS_comments on March 10, 2011, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: "Its her"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"

So, if there is someone who has any idea what that leaf pattern means...

I also would like to know if the leaf pattern has been discussed or come to a conclusion.

I think this TS_Comments person is still trying to come up with something credible, on the leaf subject :? ...stalling, gotta ask MJ, who stepped out a minute... "how's that go, again?" :?

I thought (s)he SAID he would explain some leaf things the second or third days of this thread. (Tap, Tap Tap) :)  ...

I still have two more things on the leaf pattern; I will explain at least one (and maybe both) sometime next week.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: curls on March 10, 2011, 12:52:33 PM
I've just had a very random and probably extremely silly thought while staring at the leaf/face pattern and the slightly off centre/blurred effect when these pics are merged on top of each other. You know how MJ was shown to be incorporating 3D stuff into TII?  Well, I just had the bizarre thought that maybe looking at these pics with 3D glasses on might reveal something. Does anyone happen to have a pair lying around?!!

Right, I'll go and hide away in a darkened room now! I can't believe I've just put that thought on paper/screen!

"You may now apply your 3D glasses"!!  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 01:34:39 PM
Quote from: "curls"
I've just had a very random and probably extremely silly thought while staring at the leaf/face pattern and the slightly off centre/blurred effect when these pics are merged on top of each other. You know how MJ was shown to be incorporating 3D stuff into TII?  Well, I just had the bizarre thought that maybe looking at these pics with 3D glasses on might reveal something. Does anyone happen to have a pair lying around?!!

Right, I'll go and hide away in a darkened room now! I can't believe I've just put that thought on paper/screen!

"You may now apply your 3D glasses"!!  :lol:

No stone unturned right? You actually made me curious, so I grabbed my 3D glasses, but no luck...sorry. Worth a try though! :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ijcsly on March 10, 2011, 01:43:12 PM
to add to the random thoughts  :lol:
what if....

Ben is'nt in on the hoax?? What if Ben was fooled by MJ into believing he was dying and did'nt have much longer and Ben  was there "the other" day at MJ's request to take a "decent" pic of MJ thus being promised the scoop in return for portraying MJ like we all know him, a decent pic for his fans and his image if you know what i mean? This would of course mean that MJ used Ben to his own advantage yet did'nt need to let Ben in on the hoax...because the fewer people "in" the better , right??
So what if... i just shut up now :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 10, 2011, 01:43:23 PM
The "serial" number under the number 71 is 11803, in this random pic and in the video, where we only see 03.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrSOBoRayyKct5wnIiahwRsxulWAv5GdBI2__R8yGAsneSMAsm)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/amb02.png)

Have we seen more pictures showing that number?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 03:14:29 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Its her"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"

So, if there is someone who has any idea what that leaf pattern means...

I also would like to know if the leaf pattern has been discussed or come to a conclusion.

I think this TS_Comments person is still trying to come up with something credible, on the leaf subject :? ...stalling, gotta ask MJ, who stepped out a minute... "how's that go, again?" :?

I thought (s)he SAID he would explain some leaf things the second or third days of this thread. (Tap, Tap Tap) :)  ...

I still have two more things on the leaf pattern; I will explain at least one (and maybe both) sometime next week.

I give up. The only thing I see when I look at it again, is that the pattern has two colors; blue and green. But I can look at it as much as I want, I see a face with some strange eyebrows, and a blue little clown sitting against a wall. I have flipped, rotated, zoomed, watched, searched for numbers or words but I can't find anything else. I give up, I am hurting my eyes and those ugly glasses you gave me aren't helping either. I kinda resemble the lady in the picture below after 20 months and if I look at that ambulance picture just a day more, the damage to my sanity will be irreversable  :lol:

(http://www.skelliewag.org/post_images/crazy_blogger.jpg)

I will patiently wait for someone else to find it or for you to show it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 05:07:22 PM
Something I bumped into: One of the EMT's testified the following:

Quote
The crowd was all over the place. Dr. Murray made a request to put a towel over to cover his face.
When they left the house, a man with a camera started running down the street and put the camera right up against the window and was running with the ambulance, filming. Because of that event, it seemed a reasonable request by Dr. Murray to cover Michael Jackson’s face.

Ben (with camera) was at the window before Chris made the pic, so why is there no towel over his face when the picture was taken?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 10, 2011, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Something I bumped into: One of the EMT's testified the following:

Quote
The crowd was all over the place. Dr. Murray made a request to put a towel over to cover his face.
When they left the house, a man with a camera started running down the street and put the camera right up against the window and was running with the ambulance, filming. Because of that event, it seemed a reasonable request by Dr. Murray to cover Michael Jackson’s face.

Ben (with camera) was at the window before Chris made the pic, so why is there no towel over his face when the picture was taken?

Murray requested to put a towel on his face but did they do it? And they had time to think about covering his face when he was "dying" over there? Probably it was because they knew people were going to recognize it wasn't Michael in the ambulance. And like you wrote, Ben had a video of it but we only have one single picture out of that video?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 10, 2011, 06:56:15 PM
Quote from: "ijcsly"
to add to the random thoughts  :lol:
what if....

Ben is'nt in on the hoax?? What if Ben was fooled by MJ into believing he was dying and did'nt have much longer and Ben  was there "the other" day at MJ's request to take a "decent" pic of MJ thus being promised the scoop in return for portraying MJ like we all know him, a decent pic for his fans and his image if you know what i mean? This would of course mean that MJ used Ben to his own advantage yet did'nt need to let Ben in on the hoax...because the fewer people "in" the better , right??
So what if... i just shut up now :lol:

Didn't think of that it could be a possibility...because MJ only needed someone for the ambulance photo. He didn't or hasn't used Ben for anything else other than that.
Maybe the only ones that know about the hoax are those MJ needs to use throughout the hoax such as Murray and those that only need to be used once just to make MJ's death look authentic were tricked or it could of been a 'help me help you' sorta thing like a favor (like in Ben's case)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 10, 2011, 07:34:46 PM
HAHAHAHAHA!  Love your picture Souza...I resemble that girl & the monkey both!  Going cross-eyed.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

"that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----”  :roll: Pretty much says it all.
 :lol:  ET shot = Staged picture. Never liked it.  Yes it's possible to get a shot like that with a flash through tinted windows; difficult, but possible with correct angle.  As for the leaves & all the photo-shop & layering...over my head, I'm old school. Digital's not my thing; Give me a Cannon AE-1 or 2 1/4 any day. (sorry Nikon fans) Gone are the days of Zone System, raw talent & creativity.  Now anyone can be a photographer & "make" a shot look good...it's a whole other world out there.

Video = Live action day.  :lol: Let the games/Illusion begin!  It's a Circus out there. :lol:

So the paramedics in the shot are actors for the set up...but the ones that answered the 911 call?  
I don't think so, but there are four versions of the 911 call out there so I'm undecided on the live action day.  I'm still thinking there really was a body/hospice patient involved because of all the other conflicts...hot room, didn't recognize him?, R I G H T, autopsy...

Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 07:51:23 PM
Well as long as we are speculating...
Has it ever occurred to you that if Michael Jackson is still with us earthlings..
that everything that happened is real and he really did overdose or was overdosed?
Revived at the hospital and secretly wisked away to go into rehab and recover?

If that should be the case he would be in bad shape...considering.

In fact he still may be recovering....what we are looking at here is a guy
that was already in bad health [Lupus-which BTW wipes out your already shrunken Thymus gland which naturally shrinks with age...and yes you can live without one.

On drugs...depending on how many benzo's alone he took [and that is just one class] would be having horrible withdrawals and seizures. Look it up.
Actually my sister who happens to be an RN and has worked on a physc unit told me it is a harder drug to kick than heroin.

ALso, he would have to have heart problems from his cardiac arrest.

Not to mention he already had a strong desire to disappear from the public.
Judging from how he was treated alone ...if I were him.... I would too.

As I have stated before if he is still around ....WE will not be seeing him again.
But we may be watching some of his creations and not even realize it.
But it would not be now...or anytime soon.
This whole hoax thing however...IS beneficial to him, his children and his estate.
So by all means....DO carry on!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 08:10:16 PM
I strongly disagree for many reasons I have already discussed in length before. That theory makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 10, 2011, 08:15:40 PM
A sick or drug addict man could never ever give all of the thousands of clues we have had till today. If you don't believe that there were clues, then it means that you do not believe he is alive. Being sick or an addict theory makes NO SENSE. This is a very long time plan which was thought and organized with every little detail. It's perfect and only one perfectionist could create such a plan and that is Michael Joe Jackson.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 08:31:58 PM
Whatever.
I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
Actually, in my mind mine makes more sense.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 08:34:41 PM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Whatever.
I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
Actually, in my mind mine makes more sense.  :mrgreen:
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but can you also point out why your theory makes more sense? Can you back up your theory of him being a drug addict to an extent that costs him his life?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 10, 2011, 08:39:53 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
A sick or drug addict man could never ever give all of the thousands of clues we have had till today. If you don't believe that there were clues, then it means that you do not believe he is alive. Being sick or an addict theory makes NO SENSE. This is a very long time plan which was thought and organized with every little detail. It's perfect and only one perfectionist could create such a plan and that is Michael Joe Jackson.

Reminds me of Charlie Sheen...people think he is crazy or think he is on drugs...but how can he still function properly? That can only mean he is messing with people.

People who are on drugs don't even know what they are doing and they don't function normal either.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 10, 2011, 08:42:08 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
I strongly disagree for many reasons I have already discussed in length before. That theory makes no sense at all.

Right. Fell ill/in a coma/in rehab theories have all been debunked ages ago, over and over again. The hoax is too elaborate and many layered, requiring great forethought and considerable back planting of clues and hints, with the timing of the events too perfect, to have been impromptu. The escape theory, on the other hand, is debunked by Murray's very existence in all this.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 08:45:03 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
I strongly disagree for many reasons I have already discussed in length before. That theory makes no sense at all.

Right. Fell ill/in a coma/in rehab theories have all been debunked ages ago, over and over again. The hoax is too elaborate and many layered, requiring great forethought and considerable back planting of clues and hints, with the timing of the events too perfect, to have been impromptu. The escape theory, on the other hand, is debunked by Murray's very existence in all this.
That's an excellent summary of my thoughts as well bec, I couldn't have said it better (or shorter for that matter).
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: bec on March 10, 2011, 08:48:43 PM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Whatever.
I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
Actually, in my mind mine makes more sense.  :mrgreen:

You are entitled of course but your opinion is naked. It's just hanging out there in the breeze. With no supporting evidence to hold it up... it dangles precariously, surviving on the chance that a stiff wind doesn't kick up.

 :geek:

WOOSH.

 :D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 10, 2011, 09:01:17 PM
Taking into account Michael's birthdate, the pepsi fire and date of 'death'  provide  proof enough that this is all planned to precision. No random chance to it. Except maybe how many would catch on that this is a hoax. Even then he probably was aware of the % statistics.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 10:29:22 PM
Quote
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but can you also point out why your theory makes more sense? Can you back up your theory of him being a drug addict to an extent that costs him his life?

Oh let's see....

Autopsy Report
Lupus
Old injuries=Chronic Pain.
Law Suits


Michael Jackson was not 25 he was FIFTY...he was in constant PAIN.
The guy put everything he had into performing....until he could not
DO it anymore...why do you think he did NOT want to do 50 concerts?

Then there is this;

1993 MJ goes on TV and states he is going into rehab.

And this;

Bad decisions he made in his later life concerning the KIND of people he fell into....not to mention he had blown millions of dollars.
He had lost his business savvy....even his security guards reluctantly admitted he was out of it "at times."
And would rather "settle" than go to court" and he was ALWAYS getting sued for something or the other....talk about pressure.





Quote
Taking into account Michael's birthdate, the pepsi fire and date of 'death' provide proof enough that this is all planned to precision. No random chance to it. Except maybe how many would catch on that this is a hoax. Even then he probably was aware of the % statistics.

That is your opinion....it hold about much merit as other's have stated mine does.
From my perspective there is NO there THERE.
Talk about flapping in the wind...or should I call it grasping at useless number stats!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 10:45:54 PM
Quote
The escape theory, on the other hand, is debunked by Murray's very existence in all this.

Not necessarily....unless you want to consider the alternative...MJ is in fact dead.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 10:50:30 PM
Quote
People who are on drugs don't even know what they are doing and they don't function normal either.

Well that my dear is a pompous statement.
It would depend on how many drugs they were on at a given time
and their tolerance level to said drugs.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 10:51:16 PM
RunFaYaLife, that are only reasons and excuses IF it were the case that he was a draug addict. I am asking about a reasonable theory which could explain all the stuff from the last 20 months and before that, plus signs that he was indeed a drug addict and was murdered.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 10:54:13 PM
Have you even read what was found in his bedroom at Carolwood?
Not to mention the numerous Doctor's that prescribed them?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 11:10:33 PM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Have you even read what was found in his bedroom at Carolwood?
Not to mention the numerous Doctor's that prescribed them?
Have you ever looked beyond the tip of your nose? You remind me of an old MJHD member: jewell. She tried to convince people of the same theory and also never had anything to back up her story. Think whatever you want, but you are not convincing anyone.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: PureLove on March 11, 2011, 01:43:30 AM
I can not believe after 20 months people still can think that Michael was a drug addict or faked his death to escape from giving those concerts. Do these people really think they know who Michael is? They think that Michael was that fragile and that weak to be a drug addict and they think that Michael was that stupid to make a contract that he couldn't deal with! Didn't you learn a single thing from this hoax? You still say that numerology part of the hoax is our opinion/theory whatever. How can it be our opnion only since YOU can not debunk it?!? Since NOONE can debunk it! Can't you see what a perfect plan this is? After 20 months if you still think that Michael could be murdered, or he could be a drug addict, or did the hoax to escape doing the concerts, you shouldn't be here! Because NOTHING you will find after all will convince you to believe that he is alive and planned the hoax for a long time ago. It means that you missed everything and you have no idea about who Michael is and what his desires are and what he is capable of. With these absurd thoughts you are insulting and disrespecting Michael. There is no need to waste your time here because you are learning NOTHING and all you do is to spread negativity on the forum and confuse some of the believers who are so ready to lose their faith and hope. I'm sure that you have other things to do in life. So I could advise you to forget about the hoax/murder/dead issue and focus on your own life. Because it seems like this issue doesn't comfort you and you can not find the right answers. And you affect people with your negative and wrong thoughts.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 01:45:18 AM
But the plan we think we see it's TOO PERFECT.....TOO DAMN PERFECT......
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 11, 2011, 02:46:58 AM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Have you even read what was found in his bedroom at Carolwood?
Not to mention the numerous Doctor's that prescribed them?

Key word in that is "read"... and where did we read it? On the internet and in the media.

I don't believe anything I read and only half of what I see. lol

Back to this photo...

Someone remind me which one of those guys supposedly took the picture. Red shirt, beige/yellow shirt, or black shirt guy?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 11, 2011, 04:04:09 AM
You asked [ challenged me] by implying I am an uninformed dumass.
Wrongo.

SO I am providing.


It makes me very sad to have revisit Michaels hidden truth.
I understand all too well what this means....more than
you can ever imagine.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304977,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304977,00.html)

Quote
Michael Jackson Admits Drug Use in Testimony
Thursday, October 25, 2007

How bad is, or was, Michael Jackson's addiction to prescription medication?

Well, in a deposition Jackson gave last summer, the beleaguered pop star 'fessed up for once about where his head's been at when he signs documents.

The testimony Jackson gave on July 25, 2007, had to do with agreements he signed with former manager Dieter Wiesner.

As usual, Jackson claimed to have forgotten putting his signature on the dotted line.

In the deposition, taken in London, an attorney for Wiesner asks Jackson the key question.

This is what it looks like in the actual transcript, obtained exclusively by this column:

Q Were you impaired by the taking of prescription medications or something else at the time you signed these two documents?
A I could have been.
Q Is that best of recollection, that you signed these while impaired, not knowing what they meant?
A I could maybe say so, but I'm not — I don't remember them.

It's not like Jackson misunderstood the questioning, either. In the same line of examination, the attorney for Wiesner managed to get this in as well:

Q How long in 2003 were you impaired because of the taking of prescription medication?
A I don't know.
Q Was it most of 2003?
A I'm not sure.
Q Did Dr. Farshchian prescribe that medication for you?
A No, it wasn't Farshchian. I think it was a local.

And then there's also this exchange:

Q As of March 31, 2003, were you still impaired because of the taking of prescription medication?
A I could have been.
Q During the period of time you were impaired by the taking of prescription medication, was this an impairment that lasted like all your waking hours, or did it come and go?
A It comes and goes, not all of the waking hours, of course not. Yes.
Q Now, during the period of time you were taking this medication when you weren't impaired, did you ever tell one of your advisors that you were [concerned] about your impairment and they better watch what you were signing during this period of time?
A Not that I recall.



I am sure you are familiar with this site.

Where there is a breakdown of all of the drugs that were found and what MJ took.
in 2009.

 forhttp://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... art-1.html (http://forhttp://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/04/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-1.html)
http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/an ... art-2.html (http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-2.html)
http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/an ... part-3.htm (http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-3.htm)

Then there is this;

http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/26/michael-j ... anvas-bag/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/26/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-lapd-list-drugs-canvas-bag/)

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/25/michael-j ... -propofol/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-drug-stash-lapd-propofol/)

Quote
Drug Stash Found at Michael Jackson's
3/26/2010 4:10 PM PDT

The ones I bolded are benzo's or in that family of drugs.
4 and 10 miligrams is a HIGH dose even for one pill.

- 3 - 10 mg/ml 1% lydocaine vials (2 empty, 1 3/4 full)
- 1 empty bottle propofol 200 mg
- 1 pulse monometer
- 1 empty vial lorazepam 4 mg
- 2 empty vials midazolam 10mg
- 1 empty vial propofol 1g/100ml
- 1 black nylon bag
- 1 dark blue costco bag
- 1 light blue canvas bag
- 1 pill bottle with 13 tablets containing 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, 80 mg aspirin
- 4 vials propofol 200mg/20ml
- 2 vials 5 mg flumazenil
- 1 vial lorazepam
- 1 vial lidocane
- 200mg vials of propofol (1 full, 1 1/4 full)
- 1 empty bag I.V. drip of sodium chloride with syringe
- 1 ziplock baggy containing 18 tubes of Benoquin

Note that one of the items seized was a canvas bag. Bodyguard Alberto Alvarez told cops Dr. Murray told him to put vials of propofol in a plastic bag and put that bag in a canvas bag.


Raid at Jackson's Netted Heavy Drugs

Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies who raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch back in 2003 found a syringe, powerful narcotics, vials and IV bags containing what could be anesthesia.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-at-m ... avy-drugs/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-at-michael-jacksons-neverland-ranch-netted-heavy-drugs/)

Take the tour of 1-40 pictures that goes back to 2003. Same kind of drugs.
BENZO's mainly...big doses.

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael ... ost_recent (http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_drug_pictures_2#tab=most_recent)

We are not talking .02 or .05 here.
 MJ had a BIG problem.
You can run from the truth but you cannot hide from it.
Like I stated above
They are one of the worst habits to kick and he was doing heavy duty doses....
and doctor shopping to get them...as far back as 2003.
It appears he never really stopped.

It isn't a pretty truth but the Facts.
Like it or not.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 11, 2011, 04:27:50 AM
RunFaYaLife, nothing you posted proves drug use in 2009, most definitely not TMZ articles, lmao. It doesn't prove drug use in 2003 either, but that aside. Your theory still doesn't make sense in any way. But this thread is about the ambulance picture, so if you want to continue this discussion, you better make a thread in "the murder theory`.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 11, 2011, 07:04:00 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Have you even read what was found in his bedroom at Carolwood?
Not to mention the numerous Doctor's that prescribed them?
Have you ever looked beyond the tip of your nose? You remind me of an old MJHD member: jewell. She tried to convince people of the same theory and also never had anything to back up her story. Think whatever you want, but you are not convincing anyone.

I like that. Very well put, Souza.
:)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 11, 2011, 07:07:23 AM
Are you ready to beLIEve..

The clues could be a metaphor.......


Red car....Redy  or READY

Two leaves or two paramedics.....TO  

Leaves...beLEAVE..Or BELIEVE...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 11, 2011, 08:14:37 AM
Am I the only one to find it strange to see the word

LIE

in big letters being distributed each time when somebody is using the word

beLIEver?

And isn't that just the opposite of what it should actually mean?#

Why did it become so popular to spread this LIE?

I think that it is not an appropriate word at all to explain or express Michael to be alive and our faith in this. I think it is actually quite the opposite.
Whoever invented this is a big mind gamer.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 09:09:25 AM
Well, I have been looking at the pics, all 4, checked the angles, watched de videos from Hollywood channel and Tristan´s one.

Could it be that the pic was taken from a mirror using an angle view to change the perspective and to not reflect the lense and the photographer? Could this be the ilusion? Starting with the man in the mirror!

This method is used as a technique in art, just came in to my mind when re-watching pics and videos.

The focus of the pic is centered towards the left and seeing how the camera man approaches the ambo, that perspective would be difficult to achieve unless another tool is used to reflect the image, a mirror i.e.

Even if the pic is staged, part of it can be having a conceptual artistic value in its execution.

Do I make sense or I need a shot of coffein?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 11, 2011, 10:35:32 AM
Pass the caffeine; It's possible...

And another thought...what if it's a reflection INSIDE the ambulance from the window?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: "MsTrinity333"
Pass the caffeine; It's possible...

And another thought...what if it's a reflection INSIDE the ambulance from the window?

Do you mean that the cameraman is inside the ambo taking the pic from the mirror which reflects part of the interior?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 11, 2011, 02:43:19 PM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Well as long as we are speculating...
Has it ever occurred to you that if Michael Jackson is still with us earthlings..
that everything that happened is real and he really did overdose or was overdosed?
Revived at the hospital and secretly wisked away to go into rehab and recover?

If that should be the case he would be in bad shape...considering.

In fact he still may be recovering....what we are looking at here is a guy
that was already in bad health [Lupus-which BTW wipes out your already shrunken Thymus gland which naturally shrinks with age...and yes you can live without one.

On drugs...depending on how many benzo's alone he took [and that is just one class] would be having horrible withdrawals and seizures. Look it up.
Actually my sister who happens to be an RN and has worked on a physc unit told me it is a harder drug to kick than heroin.


ALso, he would have to have heart problems from his cardiac arrest.

Not to mention he already had a strong desire to disappear from the public.
Judging from how he was treated alone ...if I were him.... I would too.

As I have stated before if he is still around ....WE will not be seeing him again.
But we may be watching some of his creations and not even realize it.
But it would not be now...or anytime soon.
This whole hoax thing however...IS beneficial to him, his children and his estate.
So by all means....DO carry on!
Absolutely not true at all. I have personal experience with benzo's and believe me it is nothing like how you say. There is no withdrawal symtoms and no seizures like how you are trying to make it seem. Usually when a person is going to come off of benzo's the Dr. will wean someone off of them by gradually decreasing the amount taken and the milligram dosage. The type of benzo that is described is a mild anti-anxiety drug.

It is not worse than heroin to kick. Your sister worked in a psych hospital. Key word: Phych. Severe mental patients take different kinds of drugs depending on what their mental health issues are and that determines the strength and what kind of psych meds.

Benzo's are mild and weak in comparison to heavy duty pysch meds. The dosage mentioned for the benzo's Michael supposedly was taking is so low it would not impair him like you describe and it certainly isn't a high enough dose to become so dependant on that it would be hard to function without it.

Quote
Drug Stash Found at Michael Jackson's
3/26/2010 4:10 PM PDT

The ones I bolded are benzo's or in that family of drugs.
4 and 10 miligrams is a HIGH dose even for one pill.

- 3 - 10 mg/ml 1% lydocaine vials (2 empty, 1 3/4 full)
- 1 empty bottle propofol 200 mg
- 1 pulse monometer
- 1 empty vial lorazepam 4 mg
- 2 empty vials midazolam 10mg
- 1 empty vial propofol 1g/100ml
- 1 black nylon bag
- 1 dark blue costco bag
- 1 light blue canvas bag
- 1 pill bottle with 13 tablets containing 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, 80 mg aspirin
- 4 vials propofol 200mg/20ml
- 2 vials 5 mg flumazenil
- 1 vial lorazepam
- 1 vial lidocane
- 200mg vials of propofol (1 full, 1 1/4 full)
- 1 empty bag I.V. drip of sodium chloride with syringe
- 1 ziplock baggy containing 18 tubes of Benoquin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorazepam (Ativan) is in a group of drugs called benzodiazepines and is used to treat anxiety disorders.

http://www.rxlist.com/midazolam-injection-drug.htm (http://www.rxlist.com/midazolam-injection-drug.htm)
Midazolam  is a short-acting drug in the benzodiazepine class that is used for treatment of acute seizures, moderate to severe insomnia, and for inducing sedation and amnesia before medical procedures.

Almost all drugs now a days have side effects and warnings but that doesn't mean it applys to every person who takes them. We all have different chemical make up and drugs effect each one of us differently. Warnings are worse case scenerio and legally they have to tell us what may happen. 8-)
[youtube:3pv3mlzg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Ka9s0JPhs[/youtube:3pv3mlzg]

Why is it the original topic never stays on track?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 11, 2011, 05:14:35 PM
Quote
Absolutely not true at all. I have personal experience with benzo's and believe me it is nothing like how you say. There is no withdrawal symtoms and no seizures like how you are trying to make it seem. Usually when a person is going to come off of benzo's the Dr. will wean someone off of them by gradually decreasing the amount taken and the milligram dosage. The type of benzo that is described is a mild anti-anxiety drug

There isn't anything you can tell me and benzo's that I do not already know....intimately.

Everything I said is true. AND yes depending on how long you have taken them
[which should not be than a month since they are HIGHLY addictive]
and the dosage- you most certainly WILL experience withdrawal symptoms and quite possibly seizures.

FYI...This class of drugs are also prescribed FOR seizures.

Regardless of whether you are weaning yourself off of these drugs gradually OR in the hospital the withdrawal is most certainly SEVERE...let's just call it a trip to HELL because that is exactly what it IS.

They may be billed as a "mild anxiety drug" but they are addictive as hell.
In fact when xanax hit the market it was billed as a "NON ADDICTIVE mild anxiety drug" by the Pharma Co.

Now we know they were as usual FOS.

Quote
Lorazepam (Ativan) is in a group of drugs called benzodiazepines and is used to treat anxiety disorders.

Well DUH....and so is xanax, which is what Michael Jackson had more of than any other benzo.
The life a xanax in your system is 5 hours.
I would imagine if you look it up that is about the same for Loraxepam too.

Any"pram" is in the benzo family.

Quote
http://www.rxlist.com/midazolam-injection-drug.htm
Midazolam is a short-acting drug in the benzodiazepine class that is used for treatment of acute seizures, moderate to severe insomnia, and for inducing sedation and amnesia before medical procedures.

That's right it does and is also prescribed for the same thing as the other "prams"
only you left out mild to acute anxiety.


Quote
It isn't the type it is the dosage.

AS I already stated above we can agree on that.

Quote
It is not worse than heroin to kick. Your sister worked in a psych hospital. Key word: Phych. Severe mental patients take different kinds of drugs depending on what their mental health issues are and that determines the strength and what kind of psych meds.

That is not as assumption it is a FACT.
And furthermore how DARE you question my sister!
She has been an RN for over 30 years.
When my sister speaks about something you better damn well listen...
she KNOWS  what she is talking about.
She has seen it ALL and does not exaggerate.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 11, 2011, 05:20:13 PM
Quote
TIAI February 26

Postby ~Souza~ » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:27 am

RunFaYaLife, nothing you posted proves drug use in 2009, most definitely not TMZ articles, lmao. It doesn't prove drug use in 2003 either, but that aside. Your theory still doesn't make sense in any way. But this thread is about the ambulance picture, so if you want to continue this discussion, you better make a thread in "the murder theory".

According to his OWN testimony he was using in 2007...considering the class of drugs
It is not much of a stretch to think he would be using the same drugs in 2009.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 11, 2011, 05:26:59 PM

Can we STOP the darn fighting on this forum and get back ON topic please? My bucket is seriously very close to full.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 11, 2011, 05:28:40 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
so if you want to continue this discussion, you better make a thread in "the murder theory".
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 11, 2011, 06:02:48 PM
Quote
RunFaYaLife wrote:
And furthermore how DARE you question my sister!
She has been an RN for over 30 years.

Lmao...say what? I think you should read what I wrote again. So you have your interpretation of things, not facts and I have mine. I'm out of this convo now Souza. No worries. This is not fighting for me. I can't change ignorance only God can do that; maybe.  ;)

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 11, 2011, 06:12:38 PM
I know you are not Imconvinced...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 11, 2011, 06:56:34 PM
Quote
TS_comments wrote:

Its her wrote:
Gema wrote:
GINAFELICIA wrote:

So, if there is someone who has any idea what that leaf pattern means...

I also would like to know if the leaf pattern has been discussed or come to a conclusion.

I think this TS_Comments person is still trying to come up with something credible, on the leaf subject  ...stalling, gotta ask MJ, who stepped out a minute... "how's that go, again?"  

I thought (s)he SAID he would explain some leaf things the second or third days of this thread. (Tap, Tap Tap)  ...

I still have two more things on the leaf pattern; I will explain at least one (and maybe both) sometime next week.

TS could advance that explanation :?:  :roll:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 12, 2011, 03:55:25 AM
Back to the pic.

Air ambulances (helicopters) have white framed cabinets.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1u-Cagl05LnwQROvjP0gLyvkoFBHY22PaRuoL8icEE3uW_Zev)

The rest of the ambo´s interior does not match.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mtcklsd on March 12, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

Ok. So I may be losing my mind or just wanting to see something g that's not there, but I see eyes looking out from the picture. They are just above the white sheet, to the left of the guy's arm. I'm doing this from my phone so I can't circle the area. Maybe this zoomed in cropped picture will help a bit.
[attachment=1:2qn8ltj3]Ambulance2-1-1.jpg[/attachment:2qn8ltj3]
[attachment=0:2qn8ltj3]Ambulance2-1-1-1.jpg[/attachment:2qn8ltj3]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 12, 2011, 11:49:34 AM
You can share my padded cell. I've been seeing faces, eyes and MJ dancing sillouettes in the hoax related photos for 18 months. Geez, I've been known to see faces in the tiles of my bathroom floor and wood grain of the piano since this hoax kicked off. And I'm not  even on drugs. Don't worry ...you are not alone. :P
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 12, 2011, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: "RK"
You can share my padded cell. I've been seeing faces, eyes and MJ dancing sillouettes in the hoax related photos for 18 months. Geez, I've been known to see faces in the tiles of my bathroom floor and wood grain of the piano since this hoax kicked off. And I'm not  even on drugs. Don't worry ...you are not alone. :P

The eyes are all over Google images.
Like a watermark.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mtcklsd on March 12, 2011, 12:15:00 PM
Quote from: "RK"
You can share my padded cell. I've been seeing faces, eyes and MJ dancing sillouettes in the hoax related photos for 18 months. Geez, I've been known to see faces in the tiles of my bathroom floor and wood grain of the piano since this hoax kicked off. And I'm not  even on drugs. Don't worry ...you are not alone. :P

It's very nice to know I'm not alone in my vision issues. Thanks for the safe place to bang my head as my need to bang my head to clear my vision increases.   :)


You're right, Grace, Google helps right along the path of mild insanity.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 12, 2011, 05:35:03 PM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
You asked [ challenged me] by implying I am an uninformed dumass.
Wrongo.

SO I am providing.


It makes me very sad to have revisit Michaels hidden truth.
I understand all too well what this means....more than
you can ever imagine.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304977,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304977,00.html)

Quote
Michael Jackson Admits Drug Use in Testimony
Thursday, October 25, 2007

How bad is, or was, Michael Jackson's addiction to prescription medication?

Well, in a deposition Jackson gave last summer, the beleaguered pop star 'fessed up for once about where his head's been at when he signs documents.

The testimony Jackson gave on July 25, 2007, had to do with agreements he signed with former manager Dieter Wiesner.

As usual, Jackson claimed to have forgotten putting his signature on the dotted line.

In the deposition, taken in London, an attorney for Wiesner asks Jackson the key question.

This is what it looks like in the actual transcript, obtained exclusively by this column:

Q Were you impaired by the taking of prescription medications or something else at the time you signed these two documents?
A I could have been.
Q Is that best of recollection, that you signed these while impaired, not knowing what they meant?
A I could maybe say so, but I'm not — I don't remember them.

It's not like Jackson misunderstood the questioning, either. In the same line of examination, the attorney for Wiesner managed to get this in as well:

Q How long in 2003 were you impaired because of the taking of prescription medication?
A I don't know.
Q Was it most of 2003?
A I'm not sure.
Q Did Dr. Farshchian prescribe that medication for you?
A No, it wasn't Farshchian. I think it was a local.

And then there's also this exchange:

Q As of March 31, 2003, were you still impaired because of the taking of prescription medication?
A I could have been.
Q During the period of time you were impaired by the taking of prescription medication, was this an impairment that lasted like all your waking hours, or did it come and go?
A It comes and goes, not all of the waking hours, of course not. Yes.
Q Now, during the period of time you were taking this medication when you weren't impaired, did you ever tell one of your advisors that you were [concerned] about your impairment and they better watch what you were signing during this period of time?
A Not that I recall.



I am sure you are familiar with this site.

Where there is a breakdown of all of the drugs that were found and what MJ took.
in 2009.

 forhttp://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... art-1.html (http://forhttp://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/04/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-1.html)
http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/an ... art-2.html (http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-2.html)
http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/an ... part-3.htm (http://xscapemj.blogspot.com/2010/05/anatomization-of-living-dead-part-3.htm)

Then there is this;

http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/26/michael-j ... anvas-bag/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/26/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-lapd-list-drugs-canvas-bag/)

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/25/michael-j ... -propofol/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-drug-stash-lapd-propofol/)

Quote
Drug Stash Found at Michael Jackson's
3/26/2010 4:10 PM PDT

The ones I bolded are benzo's or in that family of drugs.
4 and 10 miligrams is a HIGH dose even for one pill.

- 3 - 10 mg/ml 1% lydocaine vials (2 empty, 1 3/4 full)
- 1 empty bottle propofol 200 mg
- 1 pulse monometer
- 1 empty vial lorazepam 4 mg
- 2 empty vials midazolam 10mg
- 1 empty vial propofol 1g/100ml
- 1 black nylon bag
- 1 dark blue costco bag
- 1 light blue canvas bag
- 1 pill bottle with 13 tablets containing 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, 80 mg aspirin
- 4 vials propofol 200mg/20ml
- 2 vials 5 mg flumazenil
- 1 vial lorazepam
- 1 vial lidocane
- 200mg vials of propofol (1 full, 1 1/4 full)
- 1 empty bag I.V. drip of sodium chloride with syringe
- 1 ziplock baggy containing 18 tubes of Benoquin

Note that one of the items seized was a canvas bag. Bodyguard Alberto Alvarez told cops Dr. Murray told him to put vials of propofol in a plastic bag and put that bag in a canvas bag.


Raid at Jackson's Netted Heavy Drugs

Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies who raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch back in 2003 found a syringe, powerful narcotics, vials and IV bags containing what could be anesthesia.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-at-m ... avy-drugs/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-at-michael-jacksons-neverland-ranch-netted-heavy-drugs/)

Take the tour of 1-40 pictures that goes back to 2003. Same kind of drugs.
BENZO's mainly...big doses.

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael ... ost_recent (http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_drug_pictures_2#tab=most_recent)

We are not talking .02 or .05 here.
 MJ had a BIG problem.
You can run from the truth but you cannot hide from it.
Like I stated above
They are one of the worst habits to kick and he was doing heavy duty doses....
and doctor shopping to get them...as far back as 2003.
It appears he never really stopped.

It isn't a pretty truth but the Facts.
Like it or not.


Umm please see this video about how TRUTHFUL FOX NEWS IS



[youtube:3p7wb5l7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQ4gAAVW2k&playnext=1&list=PLCFCD39C5DFABB9E2[/youtube:3p7wb5l7]



AND THIS

[youtube:3p7wb5l7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ANoJU1gE4[/youtube:3p7wb5l7]


HA!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 12, 2011, 05:58:34 PM
Well, finally I got to see something. The face of a monkey?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 12, 2011, 06:12:41 PM
Quote from: "mtcklsd"
Quote from: "RK"
You can share my padded cell. I've been seeing faces, eyes and MJ dancing sillouettes in the hoax related photos for 18 months. Geez, I've been known to see faces in the tiles of my bathroom floor and wood grain of the piano since this hoax kicked off. And I'm not  even on drugs. Don't worry ...you are not alone. :P

It's very nice to know I'm not alone in my vision issues. Thanks for the safe place to bang my head as my need to bang my head to clear my vision increases.   :)


You're right, Grace, Google helps right along the path of mild insanity.


Use it to your advantage!
I have learned to open and close that door like  light switch. OFF ON OFF ON

That's how I'm able to see letter values in words with out even thinking and add up long lists of numbers without a second guess.

You aren't imagining it.

Knowers, like myself..have been trained to see these from a mile away.

Its a higher knowledge plain.

That's how I found The 5 Alive Dodo in the Hollywood Tonight video.

And all the numbers and word values...

I'm beginning to feel like I have the minds of these two main characters in movies.
 This one:

[youtube:2eaxsuxy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H24V-u7fNJM&feature=related[/youtube:2eaxsuxy]

And this one:

[youtube:2eaxsuxy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKbKpTXmlLw[/youtube:2eaxsuxy]

These movies were also made by Dreamworks.

Owned by Sony.

make.beLIEve

oV Peace
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 13, 2011, 08:35:00 AM
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 13, 2011, 09:15:35 AM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 13, 2011, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 13, 2011, 01:02:13 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Well, finally I got to see something. The face of a monkey?

what took you so long ? But I have to ask....is this your best shot  :lol:  ?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: paula-c on March 13, 2011, 04:33:19 PM
Quote
[Gema » wrote:

Well, finally I got to see something. The face of a monkey?


mooonkey, That monkey speak :?:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: fordtocarr on March 13, 2011, 08:08:44 PM
As I don't see too well, could someone please compare the OUTSIDE of the ambulance that left Carolwood, and the one that arrived at UCLA, specifically the WHEELS.  Not the tires, but the wheels.  Pearl JR. says they are two different ones....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 14, 2011, 09:41:11 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "Gema"
Well, finally I got to see something. The face of a monkey?

what took you so long ? But I have to ask....is this your best shot  :lol:  ?

yes  :cry:
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: trustno1 on March 14, 2011, 09:47:27 AM
Quote
These movies were also made by Dreamworks.

Owned by Sony.

Steffy the Dreamworks/Speilberg connection is something that's been playing on my mind for the longest time, so many references in Dreamworks movies that just jump out at you.  It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a certain someone had a hand in many if not all of them.  Even the Dreamworks logo of the little boy sitting on the moon with a fishing rod reminds me of the Childhood video.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: steffymjlove on March 14, 2011, 09:55:19 PM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Quote
These movies were also made by Dreamworks.

Owned by Sony.

Steffy the Dreamworks/Speilberg connection is something that's been playing on my mind for the longest time, so many references in Dreamworks movies that just jump out at you.  It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a certain someone had a hand in many if not all of them.  Even the Dreamworks logo of the little boy sitting on the moon with a fishing rod reminds me of the Childhood video.

Exactly!

Thank you so much for posting this!

:D
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: trustno1 on March 15, 2011, 05:05:32 AM
;) Nice to know we're on the same wavelength!  Having three kids means I've seen all the Dreamworks movies numerous times, next time I must take notes of how many references, indirect and direct, I can spot.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on March 15, 2011, 05:18:45 AM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage

the poster or the wall paper with red car has always given me some strange feeling that there was something more behind it. if this is the back entrance into O2 arena - what is the purpose of putting a wallpaper or poster or an ad with some car there? what is the brand of the car? same as the one on ambulance photo?  :?  :?  :?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: trustno1 on March 15, 2011, 05:27:46 AM
I agree that there's something odd about this.  I'm going to dig a bit deeper and mess around with the picture, see if something comes to me.  It could just be another straightforward clue, but always worth an extra look! ;)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 15, 2011, 06:33:07 AM
That image is from London. It was said that Michael fainted in London.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 15, 2011, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
That image is from London. It was said that Michael fainted in London.
I really doubt he was feeling okay  :( ...he looked like he was hiding his fright behind his smile ..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 15, 2011, 05:14:05 PM
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage

the poster or the wall paper with red car has always given me some strange feeling that there was something more behind it. if this is the back entrance into O2 arena - what is the purpose of putting a wallpaper or poster or an ad with some car there? what is the brand of the car? same as the one on ambulance photo?  :?  :?  :?
I ask myself the same things..that's why i posted the photo..maybe you guys can light my mind a bit..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: ForstAMoon on March 15, 2011, 05:36:51 PM
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage

the poster or the wall paper with red car has always given me some strange feeling that there was something more behind it. if this is the back entrance into O2 arena - what is the purpose of putting a wallpaper or poster or an ad with some car there? what is the brand of the car? same as the one on ambulance photo?  :?  :?  :?
I ask myself the same things..that's why i posted the photo..maybe you guys can light my mind a bit..

I have been scratching my head since the beginning with this one: red car poster, red curtain, red car at ambulance scene, red roses at memorial.....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 15, 2011, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage

the poster or the wall paper with red car has always given me some strange feeling that there was something more behind it. if this is the back entrance into O2 arena - what is the purpose of putting a wallpaper or poster or an ad with some car there? what is the brand of the car? same as the one on ambulance photo?  :?  :?  :?
I ask myself the same things..that's why i posted the photo..maybe you guys can light my mind a bit..

I have been scratching my head since the beginning with this one: red car poster, red curtain, red car at ambulance scene, red roses at memorial.....
Wow that too....the red color ....
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 16, 2011, 12:36:28 AM
Colours used in the ambulance picture are:

Red, yellow, blue.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Color_star-en.svg/150px-Color_star-en.svg.png)

(I noticed this way before you wanted to hint on it, TS ;) )
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Grace on March 16, 2011, 03:45:49 PM
TS, are the leaves representing laurel?

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)

Quote
A laurel wreath is a circular wreath made of interlocking branches and leaves of the bay laurel (Laurus nobilis, Lauraceae), an aromatic broadleaf evergreen. In Greek mythology, Apollo is represented wearing a laurel wreath on his head. In ancient Greece wreaths were awarded to victors, both in athletic competitions, including the ancient Olympics made of wild olive-tree known as "kotinos", (sc. at Olympia) and in poetic meets; in Rome they were symbols of martial victory, crowning a successful commander during his triumph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_wreath

Quote
Apollo has been variously recognized as a god of light and the sun; truth and prophecy; medicine, healing, and plague; music, poetry, and the arts; and more.
[...]
Apollo was an oracular god—the prophetic deity of the Delphic Oracle. Medicine and healing were associated with Apollo, whether through the god himself or mediated through his son Asclepius.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo

Quote
The bay laurel plant was used in expiatory sacrifices and in making the crown of victory at these games. The palm was also sacred to Apollo because he had been born under one in Delos.
[...]
In literary contexts, Apollo represents harmony, order, and reason.
[...]
Apollo aided Paris in the killing of Achilles by guiding the arrow of his bow into Achilles' heel.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/LaurelwreathDK.JPG/220px-LaurelwreathDK.JPG)

[youtube:wkit42le]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yN9eGKUkhs[/youtube:wkit42le]

What about Laurel Cyn?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on March 16, 2011, 04:58:09 PM
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage

the poster or the wall paper with red car has always given me some strange feeling that there was something more behind it. if this is the back entrance into O2 arena - what is the purpose of putting a wallpaper or poster or an ad with some car there? what is the brand of the car? same as the one on ambulance photo?  :?  :?  :?

I've a Top Gear fan in da house and he says it could be the Hyundai Genesis Coupe. Wasn't the car on the ambulance photo a Toyota? IDK, I've to check
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 16, 2011, 05:23:39 PM
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)

Now with the enlarged image I see within the pattern:

- The head of Virgin Mary kissing the head of a baby
- The head of a person covering it with a hood, I even see both hands

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  
(http://www.pcworldoc.com/forum/images/smilies/dip/smiley_sos.gif)
 :|
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 16, 2011, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: "everlastinglove_MJ"
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
Quote from: "steffymjlove"
Quote from: "Le Papillon Bleu"
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7774/82420352.jpg)
I'm not into cars...but..


What is this screen shot from? Like, what show?
I'm wondering what year and location if you can find out.
Thank you.
It's from the This Is It conference....when he was entering the stage

the poster or the wall paper with red car has always given me some strange feeling that there was something more behind it. if this is the back entrance into O2 arena - what is the purpose of putting a wallpaper or poster or an ad with some car there? what is the brand of the car? same as the one on ambulance photo?  :?  :?  :?

I've a Top Gear fan in da house and he says it could be the Hyundai Genesis Coupe. Wasn't the car on the ambulance photo a Toyota? IDK, I've to check

The car from the ambulance photo/video looks like a Chevrolet Cobalt to me. Possibly a 2007 year model. Though I could be wrong.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 16, 2011, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)

Now with the enlarged image I see within the pattern:

- The head of Virgin Mary kissing the head of a baby
- The head of a person covering it with a hood, I even see both hands

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  
(http://www.pcworldoc.com/forum/images/smilies/dip/smiley_sos.gif)
 :|
The only thing i see is MJ bad era...with eyes open...
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 16, 2011, 07:08:58 PM
To me it looks like Michael's head, (possibly on stage) leaned back with his eyes closed, and his mouth slightly open, maybe starting to smile. :? Maybe I'll shuffle through my MJ photos to try and find one that looks like it.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 16, 2011, 07:10:14 PM
If we are still investigating ambulances, I would be curious to know what the inside of this ambulance looks like:
[attachment=0:3knlbgzv]mj_hit_wm_0005_Layer_7_copy_full.jpg[/attachment:3knlbgzv]

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael ... ost_recent (http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_hit_and_run#tab=most_recent)

Anybody? Also, what's with that logo on the window on the right? And the "layer 7" in the picture filename?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 16, 2011, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
To me it looks like Michael's head, (possibly on stage) leaned back with his eyes closed, and his mouth slightly open, maybe starting to smile. :? Maybe I'll shuffle through my MJ photos to try and find one that looks like it.

It looks kind of like his face in this photo:

(http://i53.tinypic.com/11ty8o1.jpg)

zoom/comparison:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2vt8bq0.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 16, 2011, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Okay, so I decided to start the redirect thread this time.   ;)

As we near the end: let’s go back to the beginning, and examine once more the ambulance photo.  Not so much revisiting what has already been discussed numerous times, but rather taking a new look at something that has been there all along—and yet has been mostly overlooked.  Some people have thought it was a face hidden in the picture {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17791;
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t299-ambulance-photo-weird-images}.   However, it’s easy to see faces in random shapes such as the clouds, or mountains, etc.


(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)


This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern).  So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?

To help you figure out the answer: I have included below four different ambulance photos, a video of the wall area behind the red car, and a video of the inside of ambulance 71 (11803, CA 1261551).


(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Wall area behind the red car (starting at 1:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4

Inside ambulance 71 (starting at 9:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg


See what you can figure out.  I will probably join in the discussion on this thread, but I will not redirect to any new comments in this thread.

 What if the Michael/leaf art (howEVER it came to be imprinted or reflected inside an ambulance) is simply a picture of a figure of speech?  

:idea: Such as, "MJ, here, resting on his laurels" (even though these don't appear to be laurel leaves), as a real reference to the retirement of The King of Pop?

 :idea: Another phrase/sentence represented by the picture, could be a reference to a Chapter Title  ;) in the "companion book" to "THE Greatest Show On Earth" Movie,

"MICHAEL LEAVES" :)  Eh?

 :idea: One more idea, my favorite :D , is back to my Hitchcockian theme of MJ doing a walk on OR ACTUALLY hiding himself, alive and kicking IN the actual video of the ambulance day events. NOT in any LEAVES, of course, don't be ridiculous!!   MJ doesn't climb trees... :?  And, at any rate, DEAD men don't either :o  :!:
 
 :lol:

(Where's.............Mike? Where's Mike...where's Mike...where's Mike :?: )

o-mi-GOSH! Remember THIS??? :o viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15087&start=25#p254191 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15087&start=25#p254191) :lol:  
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suesuzzfaithkeeper on March 16, 2011, 08:31:06 PM
i can see mj in his trademark hat in the lower right side looking at us in what seems to be him looking at us thru a magnifying glass..and see what others see as well...lol..ok off to bed..need sleep..
huggs n faith to all
suzz
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on March 16, 2011, 09:52:05 PM
I am curious about Station 71.....went looking around and found this response to someone asking about ambulance 71 (sorry for the just-a-link):
http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115519 (http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115519)

Thoughts.....what is the task force station all about? Does that mean that at station 71 there is no ambulance? Here is the LAFD glossary page:
http://lafd.org/glossary (http://lafd.org/glossary)

So confusing......
Blessing Always!!!
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: suspicious mind on March 16, 2011, 10:03:18 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
[b]I can not believe after 20 months people still can think that Michael was a drug addict or faked his death to escape from giving those concerts. Do these people really think they know who Michael is? They think that Michael was that fragile and that weak to be a drug addict and they think that Michael was that stupid to make a contract that he couldn't deal with! Didn't you learn a single thing from this hoax? You still say that numerology part of the hoax is our opinion/theory whatever. How can it be our opnion only since YOU can not debunk it?!? Since NOONE can debunk it! Can't you see what a perfect plan this is? After 20 months if you still think that Michael could be murdered, or he could be a drug addict, or did the hoax to escape doing the concerts, you shouldn't be here! Because NOTHING you will find after all will convince you to believe that he is alive and planned the hoax for a long time ago. It means that you missed everything and you have no idea about who Michael is and what his desires are and what he is capable of. With these absurd thoughts you are insulting and disrespecting Michael. There is no need to waste your time here because you are learning NOTHING and all you do is to spread negativity on the forum and confuse some of the believers who are so ready to lose their faith and hope. I'm sure that you have other things to do in life. So I could advise you to forget about the hoax/murder/dead issue and focus on your own life. Because it seems like this issue doesn't comfort you and you can not find the right answers. And you affect people with your negative and wrong thoughts.[/b]
why not there are still people who think he didn't want to be black.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJonmind on March 17, 2011, 03:22:09 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Quote
These movies were also made by Dreamworks.

Owned by Sony.

Steffy the Dreamworks/Speilberg connection is something that's been playing on my mind for the longest time, so many references in Dreamworks movies that just jump out at you.  It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a certain someone had a hand in many if not all of them.  Even the Dreamworks logo of the little boy sitting on the moon with a fishing rod reminds me of the Childhood video.
In the Liberian Girl video, someone asks whos directing this movie, and the camera shows the back of Steven Spielberg sitting in the director's chair, but of course it's not him directing, or is he partially?
Quote
Its Her
(Where's.............Mike? Where's Mike...where's Mike...where's Mike  )
In this same video Dan Aykroyd asks, "Where's Michael, where's Michael?"
So many interconnections, joining the dots. We could go on forever! We've probably only scratched the surface.

Could the leaves be another hint at Green Man, similar to MJ at the Olympics popping up during WATW singing. There's been many threads of the significance of Green Man, mythically, historically connected to MJ.

And MJ said, I love trees and leaves and the changing of colors.

In any case, if this is truly a bonafide ambulance with perhaps real EMT or FBI professionals, then at least the non-reflected leaves show that Michael has a secret hand in things, overruling what is offically and naturally happening.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 08:01:30 AM
I still don´t get the meaning of that leaf pattern or why it is relevant.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 17, 2011, 05:03:41 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
To me it looks like Michael's head, (possibly on stage) leaned back with his eyes closed, and his mouth slightly open, maybe starting to smile. :? Maybe I'll shuffle through my MJ photos to try and find one that looks like it.

It looks kind of like his face in this photo:

(http://i53.tinypic.com/11ty8o1.jpg)

zoom/comparison:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2vt8bq0.jpg)
yeah kinda from that era..
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 17, 2011, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
To me it looks like Michael's head, (possibly on stage) leaned back with his eyes closed, and his mouth slightly open, maybe starting to smile. :? Maybe I'll shuffle through my MJ photos to try and find one that looks like it.
agree
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: LadyMedic on March 17, 2011, 10:23:01 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
If we are still investigating ambulances, I would be curious to know what the inside of this ambulance looks like:
[attachment=0:6m0gd5yh]mj_hit_wm_0005_Layer_7_copy_full.jpg[/attachment:6m0gd5yh]

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael ... ost_recent (http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_hit_and_run#tab=most_recent)

Anybody? Also, what's with that logo on the window on the right? And the "layer 7" in the picture filename?
Two of my jobs use the van style ambulance. I have offered to take photos, but it looks so different that other people have said don't bother. It's SUPER small compared to the box style.

Here's a post I did a WHILE ago discussing ambulance styles:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/ ... 10#p150956 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2656&start=110#p150956)
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: Its her on March 18, 2011, 05:38:14 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
...In the Liberian Girl video, someone asks whos directing this movie, and the camera shows the back of Steven Spielberg sitting in the director's chair, but of course it's not him directing, or is he partially?
Quote
Its Her
(Where's.............Mike? Where's Mike...where's Mike...where's Mike  )
In this same video Dan Aykroyd asks, "Where's Michael, where's Michael?"So many interconnections, joining the dots. We could go on forever! We've probably only scratched the surface.
:o You're RIGHT!!  :D I forgot all about that!  8-) Good catch!

Like that "Where's Waldo" game, has anyone checked the trees around the ambulance, to see if they could spot him there?  ;) He told Bashir once that he "loved climbing trees, more than ANYthing..." :) And in that Liberian Girl short film, MJ was way up, behind the camera, higher than everyone in the room---kinda sorta up a "tree"...


Could the leaves be another hint at Green Man, similar to MJ at the Olympics popping up during WATW singing. There's been many threads of the significance of Green Man, mythically, historically connected to MJ.

And MJ said, I love trees and leaves and the changing of colors.

In any case, if this is truly a bonafide ambulance with perhaps real EMT or FBI professionals, then at least the non-reflected leaves show that Michael has a secret hand in things, overruling what is offically and naturally happening.

Another figure of speech, could be, MJ "Branches Out"...(meaning, "doing different things". FBI work :?:  :? )
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: mdc on March 18, 2011, 06:20:38 AM
Can someone tell me what these two brown areas are? I've always wondered about the cpr hand placement and whatever this is might be the reason his hand is so far up on MJ's chest.[attachment=0:755x7kr0]Ambulance2_crop.jpg[/attachment:755x7kr0]
It could be part of MJ's abdomen but its at an odd angle and the color looks off.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 18, 2011, 06:50:59 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Someone probably mentioned this before but do you see a face in this pic that doesn't look like MJ. The face looks like their left eye is looking left and they are slightly smiling.
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on March 18, 2011, 06:56:31 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Someone probably mentioned this before but do you see a face in this pic that doesn't look like MJ. The face looks like their left eye is looking left and they are slightly smiling.
You mean the leaf pattern face to the left of the pic or the shadowy  MJ face on the monitor screen
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 18, 2011, 07:01:24 AM
Quote from: "RK"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)


Someone probably mentioned this before but do you see a face in this pic that doesn't look like MJ. The face looks like their left eye is looking left and they are slightly smiling.
You mean the leaf pattern face to the left of the pic or the shadowy  MJ face on the monitor screen

The leaf pattern face
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: wishingstar on March 24, 2011, 10:02:32 AM
I posted the following on the March 9 thread.......want to bring it over here to discuss a bit more:

"In regards to the shadows or reflections....on the red car we see light patterns of red color...as if something is shining through and casting shadows. Immediately, on the paramedic, on Michael's head, cutting through the upper portion of pic...we see reflections...not shadows. They are all the gold-ish color. Can you actually have shadows and reflections like these going on at the same time in a photo?
I am not sure......not when they are so close."


Now for today.....
I feel like I have fresh eyes this morning........
I am having a "dah!" moment.....
It's June 25th...correct?  Bright sunny day with things in bloom....including the beautiful GREEN trees...correct?  Why are we seeing what looks like brown leaves as the reflection?  There is not a single brown leaf on the ground, let alone any tree in sight.  What is the reflection of the gold-ish colors...very leafy looking.  Fall comes to mind as the time of year.  But, I think those are probably evergreen trees.   If you watch the classic video, stop around 1:32 or so.  There is a reflection in the ambulance window that glances by....it's a green tree.  If we are seeing a reflection of the trees at all...they should be green, not brownish-gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)

Also in that post from March 9, I talked about how I feel the answers are in plain sight....right in front of our eyes.  When I take a photo of the inside of my car, holding the lens right up to the window, I get very very little, if any, background reflections.  I believe Ben talked about how the photographer held the camera.  When I pull the camera back just a little bit, I get my reflection and some background. All in all, it does not work....this photo is so fake and so put together. However, all things for a reason.  Was Michael just out to pour a little salt in the wounds of pained fans......no.  I think there are valid clues and insights within the photo.  I believe the timing is one thing that can be looked at.  Time of year, time of day.....early afternoon, would it be possible to have shadows coming onto the window in that direction?  

OK, break time......hope I haven't bored you to tears too much, lol!
Blessings for a bright beautiful day!



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Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on March 25, 2011, 07:56:12 AM
Yesterday I watched This Is It again. At the very end of TDCAU I zoomed in on Michael's smile and I thought wow that looks like the pattern in the ambulance. The only difference is the camera shot from a different angle.

Check the smile on YT at 1.50:
[youtube:1p572n6h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQDBQpZ9AM[/youtube:1p572n6h]
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: anewfan on March 26, 2011, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: "Elsa"
TS, I have a question - How did we get access to the Ambulance photo?  It know it was published by

Entertainment Tonight (exclusive)
http://www.bnonews.com/news/395.html (http://www.bnonews.com/news/395.html)

The Insider (exclusive - it is slightly different to the ET version)
http://www.theinsider.com/news/2306335_ ... Last_Photo (http://www.theinsider.com/news/2306335_Michael_Jackson_Exclusive_Last_Photo)

and OK Magazine  
http://www.inquisitr.com/27969/ok-magaz ... son-cover/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/27969/ok-magazine-michael-jackson-cover/)

These pictures are all cropped.  The only places I can find a full picture are hoax/fan sites, YT, and photo galleries - all uncredited.  Can anyone explain where they came from?


This is what I have noticed also. Where did these extended photos come from?
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: chappie on April 23, 2011, 04:35:29 AM
Look through any window..... ;)

[attachment=6:22hkzs9i]usa.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwv ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related)

[attachment=5:22hkzs9i]french.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)

Nothing to see here...

[attachment=4:22hkzs9i]ambulance et.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]

What happened to the 3 guy in the ambulance?
Several options.
Option 1: he jumped out.
Option 2 : he is a ghost
Option 3 : he jumped behind the steering wheel
Option 4 : he hide
Option 5 : had to pee in a cup in the back of the ambulance and did not wanted that to be caught on tape.


If you have any other option, you are free to add.... ;)

[attachment=3:22hkzs9i]angle 1.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]

[attachment=2:22hkzs9i]badge.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]

[attachment=1:22hkzs9i]mj.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]

And last..for the medical board....what is that text on the blue screen...any thoughts?
[attachment=0:22hkzs9i]beeld.jpg[/attachment:22hkzs9i]

Going to search some other eggs...brown ones.... :lol:
Happy eastern
Title: Re: TIAI February 26
Post by: RK on May 27, 2011, 09:42:58 PM
I guess once a cloud watcher, always a cloud watcher. I have had a theory that Michael modelled his hoax on a biblical pattern since way back in '09. First we have the Elvis connection, the original hoax maker followed by his son's[in this case son-in-law's] and our guiding light and nudger in the right direction, kinda like the hoax version of the Holy Spirit has been TS [when the spirit of truth has come..he will guide you into all truth.Jn16:13] I must add that I don't think Michael is making the statement that He's the messiah or Jesus with this, but modelling or structuring the hoax on similar principles. So back to the faces and cloudy images that show up in hoax pictures.
Mark 13:25
the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heaven will be shaken.
26.
Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Rev1:7
Behold He is coming with clouds and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him.
These cloudy MJ images that appear to be some kind of seal or watermark of authenticity make me think of the biblical parrelel. As for the stars of heaven falling and TPTB  being shaken, this so fits with turning 666 into 999.
You go MJ.  mj_bad/
This is Private RK in your Army of Love ready, willing  and waiting on your command to begin ..signing out.
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