Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2011 => Topic started by: TS_comments on June 25, 2011, 07:01:13 PM
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! typing/
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! afraid/
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. bounce/
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. :shock:
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. :roll:
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! argue/
-
Two years of investigating has prepared us for this. Bring it on mj_bad/
Allow me to dig into my evidence file and I'll be back after work!
-
Illuminating question TS......I shall return after the dust truly settles and I can wrap my brain around it!
'Till then....nothing but love and blessings to all ( you too TS )
Blessings!
-
! ja ! I am list :geek:
-
Hey hey you did redirect today! michael-jackson/
The only good thing that happen to me today bow/
-
Awesome. Debate away TS . All the logic in the world can't extract the inner knowing that comes by way of revelation / intuition/ discernment. Might not stand the test in a court of law, but it rules the roost in my heart and head.
-
Welcome back TS! Even though I know you never left. I get what you're doing, to prove it's a hoax, all other scenarios (re: murder theory) must be eliminated.
About the Illuminati finding out about the hoax before and killing Michael to fit in with the timings, for this reason is why I think the hoax actually happened on the 'other' day. In case TPTB did find out and were planning to kill him on June 25, MJ outsmarts them and is already safely tucked away when the 'death' is re-created on June 25. Because we do know there was an 'other' day and there has to be a reason why.
That's all i'll say for now, I'm not on a proper computer so it's hard to type. But good to see you here again TS!
-
Okay, nice to hear from you TS. I'm not too scholarly so a bunch of this will just float by me.
Most of what brings me here is heartfelt from living with Michael all these past 40 years or so. Hard to believe that one could know someone so well, when they've never met. Especially as I believe that we know the persona that was presented to us in part my the mass media and also by the image Michael chose to give us of him. We all send out to the world what we want them to know of us and that is what I feel we know of Michael. But, in between the lines we see interviews and read body language. We read and hear lyrics and poems. We absorb into us Michael that perhaps was hidden from the world that just took him at what he and the media presented. We are the fortunate. I am here because of that. What I've learned and loved from finding the Michael in between the lines.
So TS, I think that you post intriguing thoughts. Much different than the way my mind works. I think on a much more personal and intimate level for reasonings and actions. But, I love learning from your great way of teaching.
I really tended to dismiss this Illuminati part of the hoax. Maybe it's too deep or maybe I chose not to have my mind invaded my such knowledge and just lean on my heartfelt belief in Michael being alive. I, being a baptized JW know that there a parts of the Illuminati that touched the Witnesses in the early years, and so, also I've chosen not to acknowledge it.
So, now thinking about a possible involvement I have to think that, were that the case, Michael would still be in danger. I'm sure "they" know he's alive because if they didn't kill him, they know he is gone or that Murray really did kill him. So, Michael isn't safe, and how and when could he ever be? And, if you, TS know that, or anyone as far as that goes, why wouldn't you or others also not be safe? Why wouldn't they go after his kids or family?
I can't wait to see what my FANily uncovers here under this level.
I hope you lead us as the blind, teaching us how to find our way and how to know where we take a wrong turn as we truly are blind and you tend to see.
Thank you for the hope you give to us, and I can't wait to see what good it will do one day to have such knowledge. Because, as I say, I already believe from my heart, but if my head needs to know also that Michael lives, then I'm glad to learn from you and my FANily here <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
<!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
-
Welcome Back TS bearhug
Miss you much~God bless you!
-
I've never really tried to answer these types of posts. Sometimes, I'm unsure how to answer. Thank goodness this one is short, and I guess somewhat simple (that is, if I'm right), because I think I may have an answer (that is, if this post requires one).
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
The first sentence had me questioning myself multiple times. So, my question is: [fade:23m49ji1]How come if the family doesn't know automatically make Michael NOT know?[/fade:23m49ji1] Just because they're family doesn't mean they have to share the same brain. Moving on to the next.
[fade:23m49ji1]Just because the family doesn't know about the hoax[/fade:23m49ji1] (which they DO know about)[fade:23m49ji1], doesn't mean there isn't one.[/fade:23m49ji1] So now, my conclusion is: The Illuminati does NOT have Michael. CASE CLOSED. Next question please.
-
JentleTouch wrote:
Hello, TS!
With the Sousa's permission I dare to open up a thread with questions for you and will copy my post from the other thread.
I hope you will answer this. Thank you in advance.
My question is have you ever considered a possibility of the family being NOT in the know?
I have read your posts about them that a member here kindly referred me to.
Here is my thoughts:
PureLove, big thanks for posting this. If I understand correctly, TS thinks the family is in on the hoax. If all those mentioned things are the only reason to believe they are really in on it, to me it's unconvincing. Because everyone can interpret it in their own way, that tweet for instance. The chosen words could easily be just a coincidence ( You don't believe in coincidence, I know, I know:) but still ) How many times do we use those words on a daily basis. I know I do. And that doesn't make me be someone in the know. Even if that's not a coincidence, still the different interpretation works. I try hard and I just can't comprehend why would they act in such a cruel way? I mean towards the fans, of course. As far as I know the overwhelming majority of Michael's fans is women. I know how emotional they are. Michael, in my opinion wouldn't just sit back and watch all these neverending tears, suffers and pains, or, even worse, act as if it was just a game, " the adventure ". And he didn't. He had left a few strong clues before he disappeared, but he did it himself. and if he would act along with the family, they should be acting the same way. But they don't. Since the very beginning the family has been trying to convince everybody there is no hoax and Michael is indeed dead. I first thought it was their role and they had been playing just perfectly, Oscar-alike. And now I think they have never been in on it. Maybe just having their guess. Of course, I know there were many " slip-ups" made by them during this " unnervious adventure". [highlight=#ff0000:1jofz65v]My favorite sure was " To the airport, oh I mean to the hospital", made by Jermaine, the one who is the most active convincer ever[/highlight:1jofz65v]( along with Randy and Karen, though she isnt a family member ) Sure, it does NOT look like an accidental remark, but heck I made a lot worse slip-ups and they were really and I mean Really made just by accident. This also goes to all the other ones, that we mistook as well. You know what made me think they are not the slip-ups but the faulse perceptions? The family' behavior. They just DON'T act as if they know anything. If they knew, they would act the same way as Michael. Knowing his nature I just refuse to believe he would ever let them act like this and sit back and watch the fan's reaction to every " Michael is dead, painful, but true " remark, tweet or whatever. Or, what's worse, send an insider and play with them ans ask riddles. NO. That's not Michael I have always known and admired. NO. They at least should be silent. Just S.I.L.E.N.T.!
You may say - Read between the lines. Fine, I will do, and I do but Michael was pretty simple and clear when he left his great clues. We could clearly read PAINS, and there was no need to read between the lines. Also we didn't need to See between the lines ( is there such an expression? lol ) when we clealy saw the moving body inside the helicopter, him in the pig mask with Liz and the kids on the Halloween night or him disguised as the green man in the new version of We Are The World etc etc. The point I want to make is Michael is simple. All the great things are simple. He didnt bend our brain even more, he knew we would be overwhelmed enough already after the 25 of June, he acted precisely and distinctly and he was very honest. He warned us. In TII. " The adventure. There is nothing to be nervous about "
But before the film came out he had done a lot of work with all those well thought-out clues. You just have to be a real fan to see and understand that. Apparently, his family isn't one. Or he just had no choice.
TS , please take notice that Im in no way trying to dispute your words and thoughts, that's just something I want you to consider and comment if possible.
I discredit what Jermaine said, I happened to me I'm talking about something with someone and suddenly say something that has nothing to do with what you are talking about. This will discredit anyone
-
here we are again with only two choices. why do you always do that? do you live in a world where there are always only two choices?
i figured it out , you must be my husband , he can't handle having more than two choices either.
-
Murray to ask the guards if anyone knew CPR according to the statement of Alberto Alvarez, knows someone who does not know some cardiologists do this?
-
...so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. [glow=red:nqvl3qd3]However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?[/glow:nqvl3qd3] That is the main question of this level. :shock:
...
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! argue/[/size]
Well now we're getting to the questions I've been asking myself for almost 2 years. Although if he WAS murdered I don't necessarily think the Illuminati had anything to do with it. The idea that he might have been murdered is the only thing keeping me from sailing on the same boat with everyone else who is so sure he faked his death and will be returning...though I wish I could be on that boat. The "what ifs" keep me questioning what really happened on June 25, 2009 and on the shore of doubt. Sometimes that's a hard place to be on this forum because "if I don't believe then why am I here," right? Well the truth is what I want. No matter what it is. Without the truth there is no closure to this mess. And though there are those who say they know the truth, they are not very forthcoming with it. Which always brings me to the family. If I had to make an argument against murder it would be the family's behavior. If my brother had been murdered and I KNEW who did it, I wouldn't be hocking books and tv shows with promises of the truth. I would be spilling the truth to everyone who would listen. Cops, fans, family, friends, they would all know and there would be no price tag attached to it. Some might claim that it would put that family member in danger if they spoke out, but truth has risks sometimes and I would take those risks if it were my brother. Then I'm right back to doubt again when I think "what if they threatened his children?" I would NOT risk the children. Sometimes I think that is why they aren't hiding behind masks now. So WE can watch them. People say the paps should leave the children alone, but as long as they are having their picture taken, and the world is watching, we know they are okay. So anyway, with that I'm back to just enough doubt to keep me going insane.
TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned. You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me. Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile.
It occurs to me I'm not making a very good case AGAINST the murder theory so this post is pointless to everyone but me. Just some of my thoughts on the subject and I guess they are as important as anybody else's. For what it's worth, this made more sense the first time I typed it out and I know I forgot a couple things. First time I got it all typed, got ready to hit submit, and then my computer just shuts off. I don't know why. Just BAM! it's off...Cue Twilight Zone music and lots of cussing. lol
-
thought provoking post .
-
so ... michael will never come back..
-
so ... michael will never come back..
That is not what is being shared here. I see you are new, welcome. Have you read all of the previous TS posts? If not, you should read there, it will be a big help for you with this one.
bearhug
-
here we are again with only two choices. why do you always do that? do you live in a world where there are always only two choices?
i figured it out , you must be my husband , he can't handle having more than two choices either.
:lol:
-
Suppose the murder theory were true:
1.MJ's family would be MURDERERS, and on the side of the Illuminati, because
(a)They planned MJ's memorial on 7-7-09, 7 years from his will written on 7-7-02, and
(b) while his death on 25-6-09 was 77 days from 9-9-09, they planned his burial 7 days from 9-9-09,
to make both (a) & (b) to coincide with the 777 shirt he wore in TII so that it appears to be a death hoax.
2.TMZ is on the side of the Illuminati, for giving us multiple 'clues' that the entire murder was planned - e.g. http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-7/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-7/)
3.Sony AEG/Columbia Pictures, and some of the TII production team are in on the murder (made to look like a hoax) because the film was planned exactly to last 111 minutes.
4.The FBI are ALSO in on the murder, because they released exactly 333 pages of MJ files.
I'm trying to evaluate the incentives and motivations for each of them to be on the side of the Illuminatii. For the FBI, perhaps they would not have much of a choice but to take part in the murder plot IF the Illuminati has a certain control over the government or government entities. For Sony to be part of a murder plot would not be hard to believe, because MJ's death would bring in more profits than it did in the 'last few years' of his life. For TMZ to be in on the murder plot: again, they could easily be profit-driven given that releasing MJ news first-hand would give them greater readership.
As for the family:
This is hardest to comprehend. Why in the world would they want to murder their brother/son?
1. They are all secretly jealous of MJ's success and hate him.
2. They are after money - the Illuminati could have promised them a large sum of money, and they could make some money off MJ's death (e.g. selling interviews/stories).
I'm sorry TS, I can't offer anything concrete to debunk the murder theory, but it seems like the murder theory is a possible explanation though my perceived likelihood of it being true is very low, simply because I cannot believe that the Jacksons are capable of being heartless and hateful towards MJ. That of course being based on my intuition and feelings, which is not the cold, hard evidence you want.
Can't wait for your own debunking of the murder theory, TS. bounce/ moonwalk_/
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
These are cool. But I would like to know what's written in small letters. Can someone help?
Some think he is alive, some think he was murdered by illuminati, some think he was killed by Sony to make an easier way to the catalogue, some think he was killed by Murray by accident.
Given Michael's dedication to change the world - I think it's not so crazy to believe he was murdered because he couldn't keep his mouth shut and his popularity was still huge, even after all the allegations. On the other hand, if they wanted to kill him they could have done it years ago, as for a few years before 2009 he wasn't so vocal so he didn't seem to be a threat anymore, but maybe the planned comeback and the fist to an imaginary enemy in the London press conference made them take imediat action, before the "damage" was done with the This is it tour.
On the other hand, Michael was sad about the accusations that he tried to deny his race by bleaching his skin. OK maybe I cross the line with this but because Murray is a black man - I don't see him involved in murdering another black man. I don't say it's not possible though. Well I don't know too much about this subject, I just think it is similar with what is happening for centuries in another countries where 2 different nations share the same teritory. There's always going to be a blind fight going underneath.
But what about this pic of Murray - I don't know these kind of things but some say that thing around his neck is a mason simbol?! And of course I have no proof but it is possible these people kill - from what I know by now it is possible they kill those who speak against freemasonry. I repeat there is not direct proof for this, just....some deaths are misteriously related to speeches against masonry.
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/conrad-murray-mj-doctor.jpg)
-
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?
I ask myself this question on a daily basis recently, so I really welcome your post TS! Playing devil's advocate, looking at the other side is essential.
Problems arise for me because gut feelings and instinct, overide the 'evidence' and always lead me back to the hoax, not murder, scenario. I have questioned the suspicious deaths of other famous people in the past, questioned the 'suspicious' part but never the actual 'death'. With MJ everything is different.
I'll be back later with more thoughts - thank you for opening this discussion. Let's try and prove MJ is dead!
-
Well, I did not expect THIS to happen on June 25, 2011.
But it DID. And that sealed it for me.
I watched a state TV channel.
What did they broadcast?
A soap about conspiracy theories ridiculing without ANY logical argumentation those questioning.
It started with a long detailed elaboration on Paul Mc Cartney's double, covered briefly Elvis, extensively Pearl Harbour and very briefly Michael (so as if they were not sure about whether he faked or not).
And every once in a while they would fade the $ pyramid with the allseeing eye in.
I have no proof for my statement, but I firmly believe that Michael outthought them.
They do have a pattern that you will notice when knowing about them.
When following the news you can identify what they are about.
That's their major Achilles' heel: they are predictable.
L.O.V.E. and blessings to all.
-
I'm so happy to see your post again, TS. You are such a great teacher! :lol:
Level 4 is really challenging(for keeping the faith ;) ), but now we get level 5!penguin/
I LOVE YOU ALL & GOD BLESS;)
-
Interesting transition of theories, from "sting operation or sting court" to "illuminati outsmarted and killed MJ" or "MJ outsmarted illuminaty and hoaxed his death". This last theory on the other hand contradicting "come back" theory, why would MJ wanted to come back & continue his "cold war" with illuminati if he is already free perfectly staging death, and "sting operations" because FBI and court majority people are illuminati & won't act against.
If illuminati killed Michael, the motives are:
1. Lyrics of his songs enlighten people about reality and healing the world which is against illuminati goals?
2. They jealous of MJ success, some black man from Indiana easily earns millions?
If Michael outsmarted them, I don't see why he should come back and continue again be a target.
As for what exactly happened, I think family is the answer. Normally when someone's child is killed, the parent would have not sought money remedies filing wrongful death lawsuit. As Jacksons used to say about Chandler's father who agreed to settle case for large $$$ instead of wanting to see Michael in jail "for what he did to his child". If child is killed,parents & sibblings would have participated in investigation case themselves to find out who is behind the murder & used CM as a scapegoat as they say. Only 4 years in prison for manslaughter is not what would be the right punishment for killing MJ. How Jackson can be satisfied? Then should bombard the prosecutorr with questions about tapes and why defendant is not charged with murder, why other doctors are not charged & investigated ,etc.
Instead, we see them calm, indifferent, writing books, working, & spreading clues. After all if Michael is really killed, then Jacksons most disfunctional, heartless, bloodless, selfish monsters deserving disrespect & be ignored.
-
So glad to hear from you TS!
Yikes these levels are getting tough!
I'm more inclined to see what the best thinkers/writers here have to say, since I have thousands of pieces of scattered hoax evidences all jumbled in my head, each one with its own possible contrary evidence to prove it wrong or coincidental. That's what's maddening--nothing is solid.
My question is how could MJ have people involved in the hoax such as his family, but only give out enough information without endangering the overall plan should something leak to the wrong people. Afterall these are ordinary people with varying degrees of ability or willingness. The people in on it need to know at least enough for their assignment to make sense and for them not to make a stupid mistake from a misunderstanding. MDC, you mentioned them possibly learning MJ’s hoax plans from the Neverland raids and finding MJ’s prolific notes scribbled on various details. But even if this happened, still the overall master plans are all just going to be in his head and nowhere else, and they would have to do torture on him to extract that (MJ is the composer putting together the ‘notes’ in harmony). TS has already mentioned the 4 or 5 reasons for the hoax, and so there are probably also layers of meaning behind aspects of the hoax, such as a magical/illusion act but also a spiritual significance. The Illuminati and Freemasonry are also run that way that members in the bottom level (pyramidal) only know enough to carry out their task such as operating a charity, and they answer to superiors on up in levels to the top who know everything (the eye) with supposedly evil intentions to rule the world as a few master over many slaves.
I agree with others here that everything to me since right after believing on the hoax, rests on the behaviour of his family especially his 3 children-- UNLESS every one of his siblings and parents are truly out to kill him for his money, and these 3 children are not really his and are only with a double of MJ. All mind-bending stuff that I hate even thinking about, but my mind has agonized over many possible scenarios all this time. So assuming his family do love him and those ARE his 3 children, they do not act like someone whose brother/father was horribly murdered, but seem happy, well-adjusted, pursuing careers, school and life.
If the Illuminati were truly after MJ they would have found many ways to stop him such as, charging him guilty and sending him to jail in 2005, assassinating him with some deranged sniper, severely censoring the internet and removing MJ and hoax related material during this time, threatening his family and friends and forcing them to say and do things.
TS said, “However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. ”
This says that the Illuminati managed to piece together the hoax plans and killed him on June 25th, but then afterwards would they really go to the trouble of continuing with hoax clues for 2 full years for a dwindling group of believers that are a tiny percentage of world-wide MJ fans, and that would be completely not noticed by the rest of the world.
I also have some questions about the involvement of multinational companies being involved in the hoax who I had always read/thought were involved with Illuminati such as Coca Cola, McDonalds, and also big media such as TMZ and Warner/AOL and Hollywood and the music industry, the FBI who it seems we are being led to believe are helping MJ carry out aspects of this hoax. This tells me that the Illuminati, whatever or whoever they are, could possibly be working with Michael and not against him in this hoax. There have been threads on them using MJ as a sort of false coming Messiah role to fulfill an apocalypic scenario. Would MJ go along with a plan of deceiving the world on such a massive scale because of a big ego? No, IMO.
I’m of the opinion that it is God who is playing both sides of this chess game, controlling and moving the players as He chooses. MJ sings in this newly leaked song, It's All in Your Name.
Only God knows
[fade:268xaoml][dropshadow=blue:268xaoml]That it’s all in the game[/dropshadow:268xaoml][/fade:268xaoml]It’s all in Your name
It just always seems to me that every suggested way of making sense of everything in this hoax always has problems, meaning that no one is able to put the pieces together properly, or we are missing a LOT of key pieces. crash/ errrr mj_dance/
-
;) Hello TS, yours reappear every time is for me a confirmation of what I know by June 25, 2009: Michael is the author and the manager of this extraordinary hoax .
I don't speak a little more because I love so much read and investigate all your posts and messages of this great forum.
But I'm in the army of LOVE for Michael and I am sure, at this time "enlightened" have been overshadowed by Michael.
I'm sure that level 5 will challenge all of us that we put our trust, but with independence of mind, it is a journey so deep that all senses are in alert even though often there are days that lead to discouragement and despondency.
However all this is useful for extend our intellectuals borders and increase the mental capacity to look beyond, forever.
I always think that the most difficult paths lead to great destinations moonwalk_/
-
Dear TS,
thank you for your new post ! It will take for me some time to translate and think it over, but i will always here to listen to your posts and make deeper thoughts about it.
It's much more global and bigger than the most of us can imagine.
Thank you so much ! bearhug
-
Hi TS, glad to here from you esp. today, though i dont comment much on your posts, i read them regularly with great pleasure, looking forward to level5!!I'm more keen on the theory that MJ was smart enough to escape before the Illuminati could get him.
-
MDC, I think that what you wrote about the removal of the mask from the children makes plenty of sense. If we do not do anything else right in this world as human beings, we see that making sure that no one say bad things about his children. I also notice that the fans of Michael's music are very quick to protect his children. I love that, because that is what Michael wanted out of life. For us to protect those that cannot protect themselves. IMHO I think that Michael knew that some point in time he will have to reveal the children to the world. And he was hoping that the love that he received from all of his traveling about the world will extend to his children. And just like you stated. If they are show in the media then we know that they are OK
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
Option 1: MJ was murdered. He is proven to be more worth dead than alive.
Option 2: MJ faked his death. He is proven to be more worth dead than alive.
I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead.
Unless it is a metaphor, if the case is that MJ is in deed dead, then I would radically change my view point about Michael´s family.
How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?
50-50 ;)
However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. :shock:
That´s the imagination part imo.
Going with the he is alive theory, I believe that MJ was adviced to put is finances and career back in order and the drastic solution was the so called death. Besides taking his life back under some form of normality, now that the kids are growing up, it was also necessary to clean Michael´s image from all of the injustices and past accusations as well as demasking the drug industry and a long etc.
Also, Michael wanted to bring the family values back, imo.
I have so many theories any way... :|
The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ;
We all know somehow what happened to MJ, but not on June 25th 2009...but during his whole life, mainly the late years.
-
Thanks TS for our latest task.
My feelings very similar to the previous poster, and when the lastest Leaked song appeared, I felt it is most appropriate, I believe in deed God has a hand in this "All in your name" says it all for me.
For me this has been a spiritural journey, something called out to all of us in some way to look into this, still happening to me, thats why we are still here after 2 years!
There are way to many strange things for me to believe it was a murder, all the dates numerology was obviously created years ago, could not have changed that unless the "murder" was planned from years ago which I greatly doubt. The memorial date 7/7, the gap between memorial and funeral, (all the dates) right down to the 09/09/09 on the autopsy final page was that a coincidence, dont think so.
Im not that good at expressing these points, but for me TS not a murder, I believe if it was a murder we would have had prompt memorial/funeral, court case all over and done with very quickly so as not to draw attention and cause all the controversy.
The family dont seem to be that worried, if it had been my family would have created huge fuss, got all MJ supporters protesting it could have created huge fuss, but no they go off write books, do interviews, say they no who was responsible and nothing happens, dont believe myself that there will ever be a trial.
I think we are going towards an event which will change the world, the last 2 years have been a huge learning experience for me.
My faith is huge in this, Im still here and here I will stay until we know the truth one way or another.
L.O.V.E. is the answer
respect/ typing/
post script .... just come across this full version of All in your name..... listen to the lyrics in my humble opinion, this says it all the reasons this has happened NO WAR ... PEACE ONLY LOVE IS THE ANSWER this is it! the timing and the date of release just perfect for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdN-x85K ... ture=feedf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdN-x85KbxY&feature=feedf)
-
I want to know "Who really hired Dr Conrad Murray?"
If it was Michael that chose him to be his doctor for the tour, then it is definetly is a HOAX..planned by MJ. He offers this family Dr, one who know his children well, and who is in finacial arrears, to play a major role in this hoax....and gets paid a handsome amount.
But if he was hired by the 'Illuminati", then its murder.
And why involve a Dr in the first place??? Why didn't he just chose to die of a heart attack at home, while sleeping.?? Why involve a court case and manslaughter trial ????
TO BUY TIME, thats why....to raise questions, and to stimulate peoples curiosity to look further into the truth and find the clues...
The illuminati are not that sloppy....they would not leave a syringe behind with fingerprints on it. And there is no way anyone else entered the house that night and day....thats all for now, but I think its enough...
-
This is what they are capable of doing....quite scary stuff really:
1. There are many Illuminated groups, with different kinds of secret
knowledge. Anything you might say about them (including this) will be
false for some of the Illuminati, but true for others, which only
adds to the confusion and mystery.
2. The Illuminati infiltrate and take over organizations of all
kinds, from churches to the post office to the corner grocery store,
and turn them to their own ends.
3. And, just as a black joke, some of their subject organizations
advertise themselves as Secret Societies!
4. They have agents and ``sleepers'' planted everywhere. Many of
these people have no idea who they are really reporting to. Others
are active members of the conspiracy, working their way ever deeper
into the fabric of society.
5. They control the schools in order to make sure that young people
learn to enjoy strange tuneless music and weird outlandish games, and
that they dress oddly.
6. They also try to recruit the best and the brightest young people
as agents, to insure the next generation of the Conspiracy.
7. They constantly feud among themselves and war with other groups
and organizations. Each group of Illuminati is constantly striving to
increase its power base and undermine the competition.
8. Their first means of dealing with opposition is to buy it off. To
any group as rich as the Illuminati, a few million dollars are
nothing.
9. Next they try threats. Danger to possessions, status or loved ones
has dissuaded many a would-be foe of Illuminati schemes.
[glow=red:369ghllt]10. And, of course, murder is an ancient political weapon. The
Illuminati have been responsible for some of the most shocking
assassinations of modern times.
11. They also replace people with doubles. For many years they
recruited look-alikes who would serve their ends. Now they are
perfecting cloning technology that will let them replace
anybody.
12. Those who can't be dealt with any other way are discredited or
driven mad.[/glow:369ghllt]
13. The Illuminati conspiracy is hundreds, if not thousands, of years
old. Many of the most famous names of history have been Illuminated,
or Illuminati agents. Indeed, all of history is nothing more than an
outside view of the schemes and struggles of the Illuminati.
14. And, of course, the Illuminati are constantly rewriting history
to serve their own goals. For instance, modern schoolchildren are
taught that there is no historical evidence of Eris or King Arthur, and
they learn nothing about the Russo-German War or the state of Arcadia.
15. They control the news media, so you hear what they want you to
about today's news. Any event that doesn't fit in with their program
will be quickly hushed up.
16. In particular, they control television. They don't permit
intelligent shows to survive; they encourage mind candy that will
keep people from thinking. The only reason good shows are permitted
to appear at all is to convince intelligent people that nobody else
likes such material, and that there must be something wrong with
them.
17. The Illuminati manipulate the stock market and control currencies
on an international level. Your paycheck is worth just what the
Illuminati want it to be.
Theres more here, but you can chose if u want to read it....God bless
http://www.conspiracybomb.com/50illuminati.htm (http://www.conspiracybomb.com/50illuminati.htm)
-
Interesting transition of theories, from "sting operation or sting court" to "illuminati outsmarted and killed MJ" or "MJ outsmarted illuminaty and hoaxed his death". This last theory on the other hand contradicting "come back" theory, why would MJ wanted to come back & continue his "cold war" with illuminati if he is already free perfectly staging death, and "sting operations" because FBI and court majority people are illuminati & won't act against.
If illuminati killed Michael, the motives are:
1. Lyrics of his songs enlighten people about reality and healing the world which is against illuminati goals?
2. They jealous of MJ success, some black man from Indiana easily earns millions?
If Michael outsmarted them, I don't see why he should come back and continue again be a target.
As for what exactly happened, I think family is the answer. Normally when someone's child is killed, the parent would have not sought money remedies filing wrongful death lawsuit. As Jacksons used to say about Chandler's father who agreed to settle case for large $$$ instead of wanting to see Michael in jail "for what he did to his child". If child is killed,parents & sibblings would have participated in investigation case themselves to find out who is behind the murder & used CM as a scapegoat as they say. Only 4 years in prison for manslaughter is not what would be the right punishment for killing MJ. How Jackson can be satisfied? Then should bombard the prosecutorr with questions about tapes and why defendant is not charged with murder, why other doctors are not charged & investigated ,etc.
Instead, we see them calm, indifferent, writing books, working, & spreading clues. After all if Michael is really killed, then Jacksons most disfunctional, heartless, bloodless, selfish monsters deserving disrespect & be ignored.
[font=fantasy:3s0i35tb]Your post just made me think...the family instead of pursuing legal actions, or searching out answers for Michael's death, as you or I would've done, you are correct, that they are selling books, cd's, touring...interviewing. And, we wonder at this. So I thought...THEY ARE ENTERTAINERS! They grab the money while HOT. Which again leads me to thinking this is all for entertainment. Michael, the greatest entertainer, the planner...the showman. I think that this Illuminati theory will be de-bunked like the rest and in the end..we will be left to see, it all a master plan by the great Michael Jackson who fooled the world. Cleared his name, taught lessons about believing in the media and also in your faith in yourself and him. He cleared his bank roll also. Who knows how many changes will be brought in this hoax. But, I agree with you...clues lie in the family. They continue to do what they always do. We always do what comes natural and to them it's selling their name. This will...to me, end up being a show, and the family are in it...it's the Jackson hoax of the millenium. [/font:3s0i35tb]
-
Ts welcome back. Glad to hear you are back. I was wondering, Michael must have outsmarted the Illuminati for sure, genius that he is. How about this theory, Michael needed an informant, that's where Murray comes in. Murray is probably in the illuminati, or masion, so who best to find out what the Illuminati wanted to do with Michael? Now last night I saw on CNN a documentary of Michael Jackson the final days, Phillips said to the reporter, " Michael wanted Murray", Phillips told him why, you don't need him. With a mean look Michael told him that He wants Murray to be his doctor and that is final..So Phillips stepped back and told him fine do as you wish.
Now here goes my scenario, this is just coming to me, Michael always had a doubt, in his mind, or the illuminati wanted him dead. So he met Dr. C. Murray, found out he was in the Illuminati and asked him if he wants to work with him and what ever he finds out about the Illuminati to report directly to Michael. So that's what he has been doing, Murray is the fall guy, he had to show the illuminati that he killed Michael with the leathal dosage of propofal. In reality there was someone else in that bed the day 25/06/ 2009, who ressemble Michael. The paramedics stated that they did not recognize the person, until they told him. I guess he did not ressemble Michael that much. Michael is alive today because Murray went against the illuminati, and he helped Michael escape. If you remember at the beginning the police were looking for Murray and he was no where to be found, maybe he went to the head of the illuminati to report the death of Michael.. Now if we add up 25, 2009= 2+5=7+2=9+9=18 Didn't we see Murray with a blue sweater with the number 18? I cannot find the picture anymore. If anyone has it you can post it, it may be important to what TS is saying. (maybe not) Anyways, this is my theory for now, I usually don't like watching documentaries of the death of Michael, because I know he is alive and what they are saying about him taking drugs it gets me mad. Ironically last night I watched it and today Ts comes back and I added what I heard last night and what Ts wrote and came to the conclusion that Murray was Michael's scapegoat,(the fall guy) which Murray knows he is. He got paid very well from Michael. He was the informant and that's why Michael outsmarted the Illuminati.. The family knows for sure. Just when the family talks in the interview they acknowledge that they know who killed their brother with a smurk on their faces. I think even if you know you wouldn't spread the words just for precaution, and to protect yourself and the family. I will try to find out more info once I do I will post more. blessings to all ..
-
Thanks for the post! I´ll reply to your quotes but I am not replying to you. I know you copied and pasted.
I don´t believe in "illuminati" as presented now a days at all in terms of world conspiracy.
To me, The Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, "enlightened") is a name given to several groups...Historically, the name refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1, 1776.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati)
"The group" back then was questioning the church and that´s why they needed to become "secret".
11. They also replace people with doubles. For many years they
recruited look-alikes who would serve their ends. Now they are
perfecting cloning technology that will let them replace
anybody.
This sounds like science fiction.
13. The Illuminati conspiracy is hundreds, if not thousands, of years
old. Many of the most famous names of history have been Illuminated,
or Illuminati agents. Indeed, all of history is nothing more than an
outside view of the schemes and struggles of the Illuminati.
Considering that many wars have been created "in the name of God", let´s say yes.
14. And, of course, the Illuminati are constantly rewriting history
to serve their own goals. For instance, modern schoolchildren are
taught that there is no historical evidence of Eris or King Arthur, and
they learn nothing about the Russo-German War or the state of Arcadia.
This should be happening in USA then because in my country we learn world wide history with no exception.
15. They control the news media, so you hear what they want you to
about today's news. Any event that doesn't fit in with their program
will be quickly hushed up.
Hhhhmmm...we all know who control the medias, and the people who owns media. Is this site calling illuminati the jewish groups behind the media industry?
17. The Illuminati manipulate the stock market and control currencies
on an international level. Your paycheck is worth just what the
Illuminati want it to be.
Once again a reference regarding Jewish powerful families?
http://www.conspiracybomb.com/50illuminati.htm (http://www.conspiracybomb.com/50illuminati.htm)[/quote]
-
It has always been part of my theory that the illuminati planned to kill Michael during the 0-2 concerts. However, it has also been my conclusion that he was forewarned of their plans and thwarted them. I believe that the rigourous rehearsals that happened 3 days before the “death” was the beginning of filming for the This Is It Movie. June 22nd is the date that is alleged by one of the dancers to have been when Michael’s security team all attended rehearsal which was not the norm. I believe at that time, Michael was made aware of this scheme and advised that this hoax had to happen NOW w/in 72 hours. He had to be gone within a timeframe to undermine what had been planned. It had to happen prior to his scheduled departure for London or he would be putting his life and the lives of other innocents in imminent danger. It had to be plausible and believable. Murray, already hired, now had a different role to play. When Michael said his final words in This Is It signaled in my mind that once he left that rehearsal he was on his way not to Carolwood Drive, but to where ever he needed to go to be safe. No one witnessed Michael being worked on in his home except 1 security guard. The staff were instructed to leave before he was brought down to be placed in the ambulance. The ambi picture is hoaxed. Nothing is black or white. I don’t believe that everyone is in on the hoax who worked for Michael. I don’t believe his whole family was aware at the onset. It would have been a bad decision to have everyone in on it. Grief had to be real. Anger had to be real. Emotion had to be real, fluctuating normally. Acting can only go so far. However, I believe over time that the people who needed to know have been aprised of the plans and their aftermath.
-
here is the problem everything we have or think we have has come through some form of media. which we can probably only begin to scratch the surface of how it can be manipulated. even what we hear coming from the family and others is not really anything more than hearsay. as far as i know none of us were there to see him, to touch him to hear him to , to smell him ( guess i had better stop with that before some get distracted) , so in truth are we not all responding to something that is goin on deep inside of our own soul that is compelling us to believe that michael is alive.
-
Ok, this may seem a bit far fetched but please, amuse me!
What if Michael AND the REAL Dr. Conrad Murray is no longer "with us". Like, in protective custody. From here on out I will call the real Conrad Murray "real dr." and the fake Conrad Murray "fake dr." What if the real Dr. was hired to kill MJ but his conscience got the better of him. He obviously wouldn't be able to get out of that one because he would know too much. He insteads go to Michael for help. Since authorities would never listen to MJ, the real Dr. tells all and gives proof. An FBI sting goes into affect with the fake Dr. acting as the real Dr....(hence the "does anyone know CPR" statement and the CPR on the soft bed. This couldv'e been put in place to make incompetency more believable.) The fake Dr. could be an agent himself. The real Dr. will have been compensated from Michael for saving his life. And compensated from FBI because he turned over evidence. Of course the fake Dr. won't go to prison. He IS the law <!-- spenguin/ -->penguin/<!-- spenguin/ --> And the FBI is "following the money trail". That's what LaToya has been saying. And the involement of others. If this is the case the fake Dr. is the decoy in order to catch the "higher ups".
So, this would make it a homicide. A fake one, but nonetheless, a homicide.
I think Michael did plan a hoax for some time. But what better timing? <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ -->
-
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23100000/Paris-bracelet-paris-jackson-23159906-390-293.jpg)
Here is Paris wearing a band that has her father's birth and supposed death dates; a recent picture from the kids outing to the movies last week. This will cause many a double minded person to waver in their belief.
Why the emphasis from the family now to dampen the hoax talk down? They have had two years to squash it, but are making an attempt now with LaToya's book, Jermaine's tweet, and now Paris's wrist band.
You ask the question TS...did the illuminati out think MJ, Or did he out think them.
Upon gleaning through the chapter content in LaToya's book this week, I was struck by the difference between who I perceive Michael to be :sharp as a tack, empathic, an amazing father, spiritually aware.... standing in stark contrast to to the image projected by the book of a victim with traits that have been reported on and played out in the world's media.
We have two streams of information running at the same time. Hence the confusion in knowing what is truth and what is fabrication. I put to you that Michael did indeed out think them and has been playing his role to perfection. He said it himself in the killer thriller speech. They did not think this performer would out think them. Yes, because of his profound acting abilities, they absolutely underestimated him. In TII, we were invited to discover the man we never knew, and it has been an amazing revelation. No victim...only victor. The illuminati were sucked in and bought MJ's persona hook, line and sinker.
These are my 4 o'clock in the morning ramblings. I will be back with more after a few hours sleep.
-
We talk about Murray, but MJ seemed to have problems also with some people at Carolwood Drive who complaint about his x-mas decorations for example. Imo, Michael may be Michael felt people were being too pushy. Who knows if some crack pot entered the home and wanted to attack him. To this point, nothing is clear. There is a man, Murray, who is waiting to be judged for Michael´s death. But, what about the others? Didn´t we read somewhere that someone else was in the room at that time as well? or was just gossip?
In any case, what we know is because media let us know. I wish I could have access to the real case and read the real documents, if any...
-
I think that Michael outthought them and that´s why we have "that day and the other day ..." I think that MJ wants them to think that they did it, and I think at first they thought they kill him but now... mmm... maybe they doubt about the death and mybe thay are looking for him...
confused/
I´m sure that he is alive but not sure about the how of this hoax...
-
I think that Michael outthought them and that´s why we have "that day and the other day ..." I think that MJ wants them to think that they did it, and I think at first they thought they kill him but now... mmm... maybe they doubt about the death and mybe thay are looking for him...
confused/
I´m sure that he is alive but not sure about the how of this hoax...
Yes. Which may be the reason that all of a sudden the family is saying..."he's dead, he's dead, he's dead".
-
more of the same crash/
-
well what I understand is that this level is to support the theory of murder and discredit the hoax, .. TS can begin to discredit the numbers? His own theory
TS wrote:
Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET
Today is 9-9-10 (CA time), the one year anniversary of 9-9-09! It’s also 77 days (inclusive) after the one year anniversary of the MJ “death”. And my very first post was about the 9-9-09 numerology, posted two days before on 9-7-09; maybe a few here remember this (it was posted on the old MJDH.com forum).
As stated in Update #6, Update #7 probably will not be before bamsday. I’m not calling this post an update, because it’s really not much new information; it’s more of a response and challenge to the critics, and backing up what I’ve said already with a $999 reward.
Outline:
$999 Reward!!!
The Coincidence Test
You Don’t Need to Be a Rocket Scientist
Did MJ Plan the Elvis Parallels?
Answering the Critics
Does MJ Have Any Informers?
Strongest Evidence that TS Is a Fake Informer
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
$999 Reward!!!
On the one year anniversary of 9-9-09, this is a very fitting time to offer this $999 reward. The reward will go to the first person who can show mathematically and statistically, that there is one chance in any number less than a million (1 chance in 999,999 or 1 chance in 500,000, etc), that all the MJ numerology listed in step 3 below happened by chance.
Anyone can accept this offer, but they must do each of the following 5 steps.
Step 1: Carefully read each of the following three times: all of this post, and TIAI Updates #4b, #4c, #5a, #5d, #6 (especially #6-8 & #6-9).
Step 2: Start a post (in the TIAI subforum) titled: “$999 Claim, By John Doe [don’t use this name, use your own username]”. Include in your post steps 3 and 4, below; also, any discussion regarding step 5 should be done in this same thread.
Step 3: Show your calculations for each separate numerology (a. to l.) happening by chance {for an example, see the 12:21 phone call time, viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994)}.
Be sure to include:
a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21
b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7
c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7
d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)
e. 77 days from “death” to 9-9-09
f. 7 days from “burial” to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)
g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999
h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998
i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999
j. 777 + 999 = 1776
k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, 1221, 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111
l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)
Step 4: Show your calculations for the combination of all these numerologies happening by chance. Your answer here at step 4 must be 1 chance in 999,999 or less (because one chance in a million or more does not qualify for the reward).
Step 5: Allow me to question/challenge your calculations.
If you can defend your calculations and statistics by answering my questions/challenges: then PM your mailing address to me, and I will send you $999 (U.S. dollars) via Western Union!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The Coincidence Test
If nobody is able to collect the $999 reward: the only way out at that point will be to claim that a one-in-a-million chance actually happened. However, while it’s fairly easy to merely claim that it was all coincidence, it is much harder to demonstrate it. This is why I have created “the coincidence test”—so that people can easily see whether the one-in-a-million coincidence claim is realistic or not.
First of all, to help put things in perspective, if the odds of something happening by coincidence are 1 chance in only 2: there is still a 50% chance that it will not happen by coincidence. And if it’s 1 chance in 10: there is a 90% chance that it will not happen by coincidence. If it’s 1 chance in 100: there’s a 99% chance that it won’t happen by coincidence. 1 chance in 1,000 is 99.9% that it won’t happen by coincidence. And finally 1 chance in 1,000 times 1,000 (one in a million)—is 99.9999% chance that it would NOT happen by coincidence!!!!!!!!!
Saying that the MJ “death” timing and numerology all happened by coincidence would be like playing Russian roulette with 999,999 bullets, and one blank {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_roulette}. Although there is one big difference: Russian roulette only puts one person’s life in danger; but with NWO and end of the world, millions of lives are in danger!
For those who want to play “the coincidence test”: it’s quite similar to a lottery, except fortunately it won’t cost money like gambling and the lottery (and also nobody will win money). I saw a bumper sticker once that said, “Lottery: a tax on people who failed math class.”
Anyway, if you want to try the coincidence test: start a thread (in the TIAI subforum) titled: “The Coincidence Test”. Then take a guess at what the last two digits (right of the decimal) will be in the Dow, Nasdaq, and S&P 500, once the stock market closes for the day {see http://finance.yahoo.com/ (http://finance.yahoo.com/)}. You must state your guess at least 24 hours in advance; and also identify which date your guess applies to (use the date based upon a time zone in the USA); the digits remain in view for more than 12 hours after the market closes, so there is plenty of time to see if your guess was right (they are also recorded permanently).
Make sure you identify which two digits go with Dow, and which ones go with Nasdaq, and which ones with S&P 500. For example: Dow = .77; Nasdaq = .79; S&P 500 = .99; this will make a six-digit number (777,999), which has a one chance in a million of being correct (000,000 to 999,999). These stock market decimal numbers are quite random, and nobody will be able to know them 24 hours in advance (or control them); so if someone gets all six digits correct, then that will be a one-in-a-million coincidence!
Now we must not forget the aspect of opportunities, when we are calculating odds of a coincidence. For this to actually happen as a one-in-a-million coincidence: it has to be the very first person who gets the six numbers correct. Because the second person will be two-in-a-million, and the third will be three-in-a-million, etc.
If one hundred guesses are made, that would be a one-in-ten-thousand chance; because although though the odds are one in a million, the opportunities are one hundred (so 1,000,000 divided by 100 = 10,000). Nevertheless, if hundreds or even thousands of “coincidence test” guesses are made—it is still very unlikely that anyone will get it right!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You Don’t Need to Be a Rocket Scientist
If nobody can succeed in the $999 reward, or the coincidence test—not mathematicians or anyone else—then we will all know the MJ “death” related numerology happened by plan. You won’t need to be a rocket scientist or a statistician, to understand that the numerology was not by chance.
And if it was planned, it would not be rational to claim that the plan was a murder plot. This is because some of the numerology was promoted by MJ himself before the “death” (777, 1998, 2040, etc); and also because the family was involved in the memorial and burial numerology timing after the “death”.
Furthermore, as stated previously, the numerology goes beyond merely proving that the “death” was planned by MJ and family (and therefore a hoax); it also gives some of the major reasons for the hoax: 2012 (end of the world), 666 & 999 (NWO), 2040 (MJ planned intentional parallels with Elvis), etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Did MJ Plan the Elvis Parallels?
And speaking of MJ planning intentional parallels with the Elvis “death”: although some responded very positively to http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com (http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com), and the Elvis/Eliza developments, unfortunately many others did not.
There are millions and millions of MJ fans; that is, if you are referring to people who are fans of MJ’s music. But far less people are fans of MJ the person! And if you are a fan of MJ himself, not just his music: the only question should be whether the Elvis connections were planned by MJ, or coincidence. If planned, then you should not go against what he himself planned (unless you’re just an MJ music fan).
Actually, the numerology alone should show that the Elvis connections were carefully planned, and not all coincidence (unless someone can collect the $999 reward). And if MJ did not want the public to know about the Elvis connections: then why did he put the MJ 2040 visible on stage where everyone could see it??? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mkzqdx021k; viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10685 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10685)}
There are numerous other amazing parallels with Elvis, only possible if they were planned by MJ (they can’t all be coincidence). And several of these parallels were made very public by MJ—such as the title, “This Is It” paralleling with “This Is Elvis”, and much more {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/elvispresley_michaeljackson_connections.php}.
Also, even though MJ and LMP are not married anymore: yet it is disrespectful to MJ (as well as LMP) to minimize the Elvis connection—even if there were NO other connections! Just a few days after the TIAI Update #6 on Elvis and MJ was posted, Jermaine spoke very highly of LMP and MJ {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91T8jCl_EE}. Do you really think that MJ appreciates his “fans” opposing the Elvis connection??
For those who opposed bringing Elvis into it, because people would think we are even crazier: so what? If the truth hits the public on either “death” (Elvis or MJ), then they will realize that we were not so crazy after all! Then they will be much more likely to come back, and hear what else we have to say.
However, if we wait till the public knows: nobody will pay attention to us then, because everybody will know by then from the mainstream media. If we rattle cages now: then when it comes out in public, they will be back to find out how we knew BEFORE it came out publicly! Then they will be much more ready to listen to the rest of the message!
Furthermore, even though Elvis fans have been saying he’s alive for 33 years, yet only recently has DNA evidence surfaced that scientifically proves Elvis lives! We don’t need to be intimidated anymore, by those who ridicule Elvis being alive as a crazy “conspiracy theory”; we can challenge them with hard DNA evidence, the Eliza court case, no Elvis relative has provided DNA to disprove Eliza, etc.
Speaking of Eliza’s case, and the next step: there’s often a 30-day window for objection to a Motion for Summary Judgment. For now, though, let’s wait until there are major developments in Eliza’s case, before going to the media again about Eliza.
Speaking of Elvis and going to the media: this was another area of major disagreement on the forum; some in support of it, and many not in support. So on July 20, I redirected to the ALLJACK5ONS tweet about “media take notice” {http://twitter.com/Marlon_Jackson/status/10355780029; formerly http://twitter.com/ALLJACK5ONS/status/10355780029 (http://twitter.com/ALLJACK5ONS/status/10355780029)}. Yet to some this was not good enough, because it was tweeted about three months before my Elvis and MJ update (#6).
But the “media take notice” was referring to the hoax; we know this because the media already has taken notice of the homicide and murder theories. And if the Jacksons want the media to take notice of the hoax, then that includes the Elvis parallels—since MJ planned those parallels, and even made some of them very public (2040, This Is It, etc).
Last but not least: it was this very same “media take notice” tweet, which became the focus of the post by bec titled “Strong Evidence of TS’s Authenticity”
{http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13541&start=0}. This tweet-delete happened in early August, which was after all of the disagreement about Elvis and MJ, and whether or not to go to the media, etc; and it was also after I redirected (on July 20) to this “media take notice” tweet, in support of going to the media with the Elvis connection. Therefore, if the Jacksons were against the Elvis connection and/or going to the media: then why in August did they delete enough tweets to keep “media take notice” at the very bottom of the page, exactly as I said clear back in May?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Answering the Critics
Shortly after Update #6, there was a fair amount of discussion on a few threads criticizing TS. Several of the questions and objections are worthy of response; and in fact, a few members already posted some very good responses. {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=6951;
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11733; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11733;) viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198)}.
However, I’m going to add a few replies of my own. And let me make it clear that I don’t mind sincere criticism, because truth can stand up to questions and objections—the truth will prevail! The problem is when people make empty accusations, with no evidence, such as “TS is nonsense”; statements like this with no evidence are useless, and I won’t even try to respond to them.
Should the Jacksons tweet about TIAI? This was suggested and even urged by a few. Well, they can tweet this if they want; but it’s not very likely, especially not before bamsday. Also, they did recently delete enough tweets to keep the AOL (Army Of LOVE) tweet on the bottom of the page—just like I said back in May; see again the post by bec, “Strong Evidence of TS Authenticity” {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13541; viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13541&start=125#p232795 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13541&start=125#p232795)}.
Also, for those who want to disprove TS/TIAI: why don’t you ask Jacksons to tweet something against TIAI? Surely if they don’t do that, then this will be final proof that TS is not fake—right??? And if that reasoning doesn’t hold much water, then neither does the opposite reasoning (Jacksons not tweeting in support of TIAI proves that TS is fake).
There were also some concerns that I mentioned the concept of people being tested, and some failing the test; it was suggested that MJ would not do this. Well, what about Murray? Don’t you think many people have failed the same basic (prejudice) test—calling him a murderer, even before the preliminary hearing?? Don’t you think that MJ planned this test, to help expose the problems of prejudice and trial by media? {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832; viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841)}
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card!
Speaking of trying to debunk TS: one particular member kept dwelling on my statements about “few” in on the hoax—claiming that there were more than “few”, so this alone proves that TS is a fake {see Update 4d, viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194)}. However, this is just another of many examples of critics not carefully reading what I said. The word “few” is always relative; and in comparison to all the stars in the sky, one thousand is a “few” stars. Taken in context, the “few” that I mentioned was in relation to this statement: “the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. ... only a relatively few people would need to be ‘in on it’” (in 4-36 & 4-38).
I never gave any specific number other than “more than three”; but if you read all my posts, you will find that I myself did mention several specifically involved with the hoax: MJ, family, Conrad, Kenny Ortega, coroner, hospital, FBI, TMZ, etc. And there are many others (friends/celebrities) who may not have a direct role, and yet understand that it’s a hoax (much like us).
For those who have suggested that TS edits posts later to hide mistakes, etc: notice that Update #4d (referenced above) has not been edited even once (see bottom of the post). I do not edit posts after posting them, except when adding a link to new parts—and that is only a few days later at most (see for example the bottom of Update #4a, #4b, & #4c, all say “edited 1 time in total”). Also, every TS post is copied onto several other hoax forums, where it would be practically impossible to edit them. So if you want to verify what I originally wrote, check it out on other hoax forums!
Another question was this: “why didn’t he [MJ] wear anything with the number 9 in TII?” Answer: he wore 777 on his red shirt, and had 999 in the vowels of the title (as well as 1998 again, which is 999 x 2, etc {see Update #5a, viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9726 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9726)}. If he had 999 on the shirt, and 777 in the title of TII—you probably would’ve complained that he didn’t wear 777!
Furthermore, TII movie poster was officially released on 9-9-09; and TII itself released 7 weeks after 9-9-09, etc. And the “death” and “burial” was 77 & 7 days from 9-9-09 (resurrection). How much more do you want???
Yes, if you don’t use inclusive it doesn’t work. But it CAN’T POSSIBLY work with BOTH inclusive AND standard reckoning; so you MUST pick one of the two, if you are planning it out. And inclusive is the BETTER of the two options: because it is Biblical, and most widely known in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus! Also MJ used inclusive when he said “four more years” in the spring of 2009; normally that would end in 2013—but inclusive is 2009 (year one), 2010 (year two), 2011 (year three), and 2012 (year four).
There are two other major areas of TS criticism. The first complaint is that TMZ and TS are just playing around; and the second complaint is that TS return/bam predictions have not come true. These two subjects are addressed in the next two sections, below.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Does MJ Have Any Informers?
Elvis/Jesse had Dr. Hinton as an informer, and he helped to write the book {see Update #6, viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11061 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11061)}. And Elvis/Jesse still has Linda as an informer {http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/index.php}. So would MJ have no informers? And if that doesn’t make sense, then who are the reliable MJ informers—if not TMZ and/or TS? {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198&start=25#p189140}
Is the Jackson family the only informers? And if so, why have they given almost no clues for quite a while? And if the family is against TMZ, then why have they done interviews with TMZ {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?keywords=recap&terms=all&author=&fid%5B%5D=50&sc=0&sf=titleonly&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=100&t=0&submit=Search}? Why don’t they openly speak out against TMZ? Yes, Jermaine did mention a complaint about camera people laughing in court {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OiJMjilg}; but this is all that he mentioned, he said nothing against TMZ reporting MJ news and/or hoax information, etc.
And let’s go back to the beginning once more: why was TMZ first to report the MJ “death”? Some have suggested that this is merely because TMZ was faster than all the other media, and got the information ahead of everyone else. But would MJ be so sloppy, as to accidentally allow an internet tabloid site be the first to find out about the “death”? If MJ planned this all out so well for so long (see Updates #4 & #6): don’t you think that he would also plan what media facility he wanted to first announce the “death”?
Furthermore, if MJ does not have a news source in on the hoax: then how can he demonstrate the problem of the media running stories from other news facilities, without checking it out for themselves (which is exactly what happens when TMZ posts articles)? And if MJ did plan to demonstrate this, then what news company is he using—if not TMZ??
Even if MJ were really dead, it’s possible that one or more in the Jackson family would read the hoax theories on the internet. And if you are sure MJ is alive: then you can be certain that they are watching the hoax on the internet. And even if they read one and only one hoax forum, surely it would be this one (MJDHI); because it’s the first hit on Google, because you don’t have to sign up to read it, and because it is the only hoax forum on the TMZ blog roll {http://www.tmz.com/blogroll/}.
Now why would TMZ put only this hoax forum on blog roll—which is also the only forum that TS posts on? If MJ and/or TMZ is against the TIAI messages: then this forum should NEVER be the on the TMZ blog roll!
For those who have claimed that TS is only connected with TMZ, but not anything else in the hoax; here is the list yet again (with one more added). And this time there are sixteen ones with a * (instead of a #); these sixteen are all connections to more than just TMZ.
*1. MJ investigation complete, only two days after TIAI announced Update #1.
*2. 333 pages of FBI files, planned release on same day as TIAI Revealed.
*3. $9.99 while LaToya shopping, connecting with “99” days after 9-9-09.
#4. Six 911 articles on TMZ, the day after TIAI conspiracies on Google (911, etc).
#5. Murray on TMZ news four times, the same day as the TIAI Murray redirect.
*6. Vendetta on 11-5; Evan Chandler / Emerald City on 11-17 (70th anniversary).
*7. 2012 trailer, a week before “Jackson” and many other MJ parallels came out.
*8. TII Resurrection scene in a graveyard (not funeral & casket, etc).
*9. TII would Reveal the hoax (Smooth Criminal, no RIP, BAM statement, etc).
*10. TII would show the MJ “Return” (this very word is now on the DVD).
*11. 1998 autograph codes; 77 days & 7 days all pointed to 9-9-09, fulfilled by several TII and MJ related events.
*12. ALLJACK5ONS tweet on 1-18 about TIAI “Revealed” (also the 3-11 tweet).
#13. TMZ clue on January 25.
#14. TMZ, Murray, and murder versus hoax clue on February 5.
*15. High probability of “piece by piece” return starting in January (see #12, etc).
*16. Autopsy finalized 9-9-09, released just one day after I said “9-9-09 update”.
#17. TIAI redirect to TMZ, less than an hour before the big MJ Killed Himself post.
#18. Update #4 (4-44), #17 article posted on 4-4 at 4:00 AM (444).
*19. Elvis redirect on 5-10, several Elvis events happen from 5-12 to 5-20 (next).
*20. Update 5 (with 12 sections) on 5-12 at 5:12 AM; later that day TMZ starts LMP series from 5-12 to 5-17. Also, Linda talks to Jesse on 5-12.
*21. The final part of TIAI Update (#5d) is posted evening of 5-19 (CA time). On 5-19, Eliza posted a message on her homepage, for the first time in about four months; then on 5-20, the article by attorney Mayoras was posted (6-1, above).
*22. “Strong Evidence of TS’s Authenticity” {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13541; viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795)}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Strongest Evidence that TS Is a Fake Informer
TIAI Update #6 was titled: “TIai update #6: Michael & Elvis, DOuble-bam This Summer?!?” And yes, summer is nearly over. So if there’s no bam soon, then I guess this is very strong evidence that TS is fake, right?
However, although the critics will no doubt be eager to use this reasoning as soon as summer is over, there is one minor problem with this reasoning—and that problem is the following list of the others who would also have to be fake, using the same basic reasoning: Jermaine, 5 Brothers, TMZ, Paris, Ortega, Janet, and even MJ himself!
Jermaine’s “The Tribute” has said “coming SOON” for about a year now {http://www.thetribute2010.com/}; actually, it was originally titled The Tribute 2009 {http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=%22the+tribute+2009%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=5d0b50e146560710}. The “5 Brothers Enterprises” website—with BAM illustrated visually and in the audio—has also said “coming SOON” since December 2009 {http://www.whois.net/whois/5brothersenterprises.com}.
TMZ had a “big clue” for January 18, 2010; but nothing happened {http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/18/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-investigation-applied-pharmacy-search-warrant-las-vegas/; viewtopic.php?f=72&t=3391 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=3391)}. And in the same month (January 2010), Paris said “Daddy was supposed to be here. Daddy was going to perform this year.” {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=5024}
Many already know about Kenny Ortega’s tweet: “Smee: Captain, the ice is melting, the sun is out and the flowers are all in bloom Captain Hook: He’s back” {Sep 1st, 2009 via web; http://twitter.com/KennyOrtegaBlog/status/3684282550 (http://twitter.com/KennyOrtegaBlog/status/3684282550)}. This was so obvious, that he got several questions about it; so only one day later, Kenny said: “... I was quoting text from Peter Pan. Please don’t look for hidden messages. Promise they’re not there. Just fun” {http://twitter.com/KennyOrtegaBlog/status/3706966897}.
Now if MJ were really dead, then we wouldn’t pay much attention to these tweets from Kenny; but if MJ is alive, then the first tweet was indeed a clue—and the second one was to deter further questioning. It is true that the first tweet doesn’t give a specific year, it only mentions springtime; however, unless he was referring to the very next spring (2010), then this tweet was essentially pointless—because it could be ANY spring from now until forever.
On June 14, 2010, Janet tweeted this: “It’s time the fans know the truth …”
{Jun 14th via web; http://twitter.com/JanetJackson/status/16174141128 (http://twitter.com/JanetJackson/status/16174141128), verified account}. What “truth” was Janet referring to, that was then “time” for the fans to “know”? Perhaps that MJ is dead, and he was murdered? If so, that is nothing that hasn’t been said many times already. Furthermore, if MJ is alive, then murder would not be the “truth”—instead, the hoax would be the truth. Yet nearly three months have passed since then, and no hoax truth has come out publicly from the Jacksons.
Last but not least, MJ himself said at the London press conference: “see you in July”! If he really died, then this was merely a reference to the planned concerts in July 2009; but if he was planning a fake death, then the “July” did not refer to 2009. Of course he didn’t say what year, just like Kenny’s tweet; but once again, if MJ didn’t mean July 2010, then it could be any year—and therefore it would be practically meaningless.
Actually, if you’re going to include all of the above as fake MJ hoax informers, then you might as well include Dr. Hinton as a fake Elvis hoax informer; because Dr. Hinton—the very one who helped write the book with Elvis/Jesse—said Elvis would come out publicly in the year 2002, but it didn’t happen {http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page19}.
And what about attorney Mayoras, who is an informer with Eliza’s case? Back in May he said: “Eliza Presley’s court case is back on track and scheduled to come to a head this summer. … Stay tuned until this summer. That’s when the real fun begins.” {http://www.probatelawyerblog.com/2010/05/the-elvis-presley-conspiracy-part-iv-what-does-it-all-mean.html}. Summer is about over, so does “this summer” make him a fake informer? By the way “This Summer” is the exact phrase that I used in my Update #6—along with two question marks {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11061}.
Eliza herself knows that there can be delays, when you are dealing with court cases. She said the following: “Of course, any time that you deal with the legal system, you cannot predict a time frame, can you?” {http://www.elvisinfonet.com/interview_elizapresley1.htm}.
Like everyone else involved in the MJ and Elvis hoaxes, I can’t give any certain dates for bam; I can only give possibilities. And at this point, don’t be too surprised if nothing major happens until after Eliza and/or Murray cases are done.
There are some interesting dates coming up: 10-10-10, Halloween, and November 5 (V for Vendetta); but as always, don’t put too much on any particular date.
What we do know for sure is that: “It’s all going to come out; it’s all going to unfold.” {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0SoaOe-cs}. This is what Jermaine said back in February, 2010; and it was stated in the context of the “airport” slip, so we know he meant the hoax is all going to come out {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7010}.
Jermaine also reiterated this again on Larry King interview in June, 2010. “[Larry:] Do you think we’ll ever find out the whole story? [Jermaine:] Yes! Yes! You know why, because his [MJ’s] family is not going to let it not happen. ... We’re going to do everything in our power as a family to make sure the world knows what really happened.” {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OiJMjilg}.
Yes, there have been delays; and as time passes, more members may leave this forum (and many have left already). But don’t worry too much; they will all come rushing back right after bamsday—along with thousands and thousands of new members.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I’m not going to take the time and space in this post, to explain the latest set of redirects; most of them were understood correctly anyway. For those who want to see a list of them, LilWendy has done a great job of keeping track {http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/www-thisisalsoit-com-to-date/}. Also, don’t expect more redirects—at least not until there are significant developments with the Elvis/Eliza or MJ/Murray cases.
Meanwhile, anyone can promote this $999 reward through any method that you want. But please do NOT reference http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com (http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com) for the $999 reward, because sooner or later it will probably get redirected away from this post. Instead, use http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com (http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com) for the $999 reward (and I will ask Mo & Souza to put a link from that page to this post).
... and now it’s Time for me to Sign,
The Sign
-
My random thoughts lol ........so my first thought is why would the Illuminati bother themselves with following the exact timing of the Hoax? It would make sense only if it is to fool the people who had prior knowledge of the forthcoming hoax...not us, because we didn't really know that Michael would do that, we didn't expect it, so they have no reason to continue for us and make us believe that the hoax is "finally" happening.
Now one can say that they follow the hoax timing just to make those in the know think that everything goes according to plan and hence not raise any suspicions in this clan. But the overall hoax plan is made as such that it includes that Michael WILL come back and the exposing of the Illuminati so I highly doubt that they would continue with this plan. If their goal was to take Michael they would just have found a way to do it without continuing on feeding the hoax and avoiding by all means possible to attract attention and certainly not promote a return.
Why did they made the 911 call at exactly 12:21 for example? This is not the kind of things they would want the people to know about or focus on (EOW).
Also it would mean that Michael's family is covering up the murder because they have been involved in the development of the supposed "hijacked" plan and I don't believe that for one second. If we accept this fact (that the family cannot cover up a murder) then the murder theory explains even less the lack of pain and tears. They are not robots, they would have been devastated if it happened and it is absolutely not what we have seen. This is a strong point that goes against the murder theory for me.
I'm thinking as well about the ambulance picture that we've been discussing. We've seen that it's been photo-shopped and hence that it took a certain amount of time and work to be done. Again why would they bother themselves so much with creating a fake picture that has finally only had as an effect to raise suspicions? We might as well say that Ben is covering up a murder.
[fade:200jmfi5]Michael is ALIVE[/fade:200jmfi5] and well running the show............ready to come back! bounce/ ...when the time is right of course... lolol/
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
Greetings to you TS.Long time fan,first time poster.Im sure i speak for all here when i say its wonderful to see you back (gave us quite a scare).As you mentioned about this level being a test involving debunking the hoax in favour of the murder theory here are a few questions/theories that you may be able to answer/debunk.In going along with the whole theory of the illuminati finding out about michaels planned hoax and putting in motions to kill michael on the planned hoax day.Here are the questions i would ask
1.Why would the date of june 25th be a neccesity at all for the date of death?surely the numerology angle and the significence of the date would be too much of a clue towards hoax believers?In all honesty the date of june 25th has been found to be highly significent of the hoax theory.Why would they not have had him killed a week before?,or the day before?or a week later etc.The significence of the date in question would then be non existant.Which would leave any murder theory more difficult to pinpoint
2.With the faking of the ambulance photo now being established,why would it need to be faked at all?surely if a murder was being set up then they could have taken the trouble of having a photographer/team of photographers ready and waiting to snap the money shot of michael en route to hospital.The whole debate on that photo being fake or genuine surely would have not been as viable if a 100% undebunkable genuine photo had been published
3.If michael was onto plans of his own murder and had planned the hoax to beat them to the punchline metaphorically speaking.Then surely he wouldnt have left the security of his home so lacking that a assasination team/individual could be sent in unchallenged?would michael have left his children and himself vulnerable to attempts on his life?,especially if he had prior knowledge of the fact?.Lets face it,we know from seeing neverland,that michael knew the importance of keeping himself safe and secure from certain factions of the outside world
Thank you for taking the time to read this and i look forward to a reply.and may i add a big hello to all on the forum.Keep up the good work guys,you are all incredible
<!-- l -->posting.php?mode=quote&f=145&p=340005# (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/posting.php?mode=quote&f=145&p=340005#)<!-- l -->
-
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23100000/Paris-bracelet-paris-jackson-23159906-390-293.jpg)
seems strange to me that bracelet, what is not written on the headstone of the grave brings have Paris it in your hand ,.... I think that's weird
-
errrr I'm freezing but i keep on reading and trying to stay focused... errrr errrr This level had me starting to adore TS...the only member who makes our brain 'work' on this forum. respect/
I think the family knows about the hoax and at the same time they get their reward[fade:vr562250]s[/fade:vr562250] ...They(not the fam.) don't have much control over Michael and his money:that can explain the album "Michael"-just few tracks are the real one...that is why the family is against the CD..it's all mixed up in my brain....two choices : parallel choices.... errrr errrr and I keep freezing...in the end is all about the money not about the man pale/
-
TS, welcome back! So glad to see you, I didn't expect you back to be honest so I'm glad you have a new challenge for us. This is my favorite until now and although is seems easy, it's not so i am going to think this through before I post because you are a smartass so I have to get my story debunk-proof. lolol/
[offtopic:2ot0xx2w]ps. Is the big font a clue about your age? :lol: ;) Just joking bearhug[/offtopic:2ot0xx2w]
-
[img]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205
Greetings to you TS.Long time fan,first time poster.Im sure i speak for all here when i say its wonderful to see you back (gave us quite a scare).As you mentioned about this level being a test involving debunking the hoax in favour of the murder theory here are a few questions/theories that you may be able to answer/debunk.In going along with the whole theory of the illuminati finding out about michaels planned hoax and putting in motions to kill michael on the planned hoax day.Here are the questions i would ask
1.Why would the date of june 25th be a neccesity at all for the date of death?surely the numerology angle and the significence of the date would be too much of a clue towards hoax believers?In all honesty the date of june 25th has been found to be highly significent of the hoax theory.Why would they not have had him killed a week before?,or the day before?or a week later etc.The significence of the date in question would then be non existant.Which would leave any murder theory more difficult to pinpoint
2.With the faking of the ambulance photo now being established,why would it need to be faked at all?surely if a murder was being set up then they could have taken the trouble of having a photographer/team of photographers ready and waiting to snap the money shot of michael en route to hospital.The whole debate on that photo being fake or genuine surely would have not been as viable if a 100% undebunkable genuine photo had been published
3.If michael was onto plans of his own murder and had planned the hoax to beat them to the punchline metaphorically speaking.Then surely he wouldnt have left the security of his home so lacking that a assasination team/individual could be sent in unchallenged?would michael have left his children and himself vulnerable to attempts on his life?,especially if he had prior knowledge of the fact?.Lets face it,we know from seeing neverland,that michael knew the importance of keeping himself safe and secure from certain factions of the outside world
Thank you for taking the time to read this and i look forward to a reply.and may i add a big hello to all on the forum.Keep up the good work guys,you are all incredible
<!-- l -->posting.php?mode=quote&f=145&p=340005# (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/posting.php?mode=quote&f=145&p=340005#)<!-- l -->
This makes me think also, that IF Michael were dead/murdered, why hasn't Sony exercised the rights to take over the parts remaining of Michael's portion of the publishing rights? (not mijac) Surely they'd profit from total take over, as I had expected. BUT, instead, "Michael" negotiates the largest recording contract in history?? This don't make financial sense if Michael is dead for Sony to not have taken control of Michael's part of Sony.
Also, news trickles down to us little people through media and we haven't heard that Michael was involved or pursued by the Illuminati. Actually, this idea comes from where? If us no ones could dig up reasons or ideas that the illuminati got to Michael, then surely so would've the media, police, fbi..family...anyone!! There would be loose ends, actually, if they did do it, there ARE loose ends as even US are speculating...so others of import could also. It don't make sense for any reason to have them do that...you know that Michael didn't just carry a plan around in his head...there'd be proof...it would be in poems, music... post it notes <!-- s]
-
"And being the artist that I am, at Sony I've generated several billion dollars for Sony, several billon. They really thought that my mind is always on music and dancing. It usually is, but they never thought that this performer - myself - would out think them" -MJ June 15, 2002 Sony Kills Music Speech. On July 7, 2002 he makes a Will (one with subtle inaccuracies). Michael Jackson: A truly genuine character who is outspoken about world problems and the vital information that is kept from us so that we are helpless. He has exposed many monsters over the years. There are many terrible things that happen and go unnoticed by the public, and there are obviously people in power that like to keep it that way. A man like Michael who's greatest quality is his honesty, has become an outstanding activist and leader of justice and truth. And has a great advantage with his fame and status. What must happen in return, this respect and love the world has developed for Michael must be destroyed. 'They' must cut all ties between Michael and the people of this planet and are conditioned and kept in the dark. Is his life in danger? Possibly. Is he dead? I don't believe he is. Is he hoaxing his death? From what I've learned, yes. But there is more to it than we know. I believe that the stories we were fed through the years that MJ is naive and weak and unknowingly allows people to take advantage of him are all lies, possibly created by MJ himself, to distract certain someones from the genius he really is. Whether he is completely stupid or extremely cautious, its inevitable that there will be someone who can and will get him. Set him up, extort him, frame him, ruin him. Where there is a poweful man (MJ), there is an even more powerful man or group of men (industry, illuminati, government etc.). Michael has faked his death, Michael does have a big plan, Michael has thought this out very carefully and considered any risk it may bring to his self or any loved ones, Michael does have good reliable and intelligent people on his side helping him when he needs it. But no plan is flawless, and there are set backs. All we can do is wait, so wait is what we shall do. The King will return, I believe it 100% without a shadow of doubt. That may prove to be foolish in the end if Mike was in fact murdered, but I can't believe that a man as sharp as MJ could know that his life is in danger and do nothing about it. He has much more to live for than to die for. And thanks TS for not leaving us stranded, although we are quite a fantastic group of independent thinkers all on our own :).
Love you hoaxers!
-
I went over members' posts and found reasonable points I would like to summarize.
First, the conclusion is Michael outsmarted whoever wanted to kill him and hoaxed his death.
Backing up by facts we have; we don't have a true lifeless Michael's photo ot the ambulance. In fact, the single photo taken by his long time friend is photoshop. If Conrad was hired by bad guys to kill Michael, he most probably will be killed as well to keep his mouth shut because even if he was paid a lot of money, there is no guarantee he can resist himself to remain silent forever. Again FAMILY; Jacksons can successfully order to kill CM (car accident) as a revenge for killing Michael, OR kidnap him and make him talk who ordered him to kill Michael and give name of those people gto either DA or get vendetta on their own way. Can they do that? YES, THEY CAN. Instead, they play double game: after they announced and "buried" MJ after 2,5 months of "passing", keep saying that Michael was KILLED, then right after it show is followed by CLUES that MJ IS ALIVE through their weird happy behavior, inconsistent answers on questions, slip ups, and NOT DOING ANYTHING for revenge and justice for MJ. Then again they take clues back (Jermain's tweet) saying there is NO hoax. Right there believer fans get confused,upset, & mad. DON't BE. Because I think of 2 reasons for that, either MIchael is NOT coming back at all or it is not the time to reveal the hoax. Michael needs to remain "dead".
With CM case, I think Michael used him as a scapegoat.Muslim bodyguards helped MJ with hoax. In fact, I've read their testimony http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/201 ... icial.html (http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/2011/06/conrad-murray-trial-based-on-official.html) viewtopic.php?f=219&t=19528 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=219&t=19528) and Jermain's speech which to me is another clue. viewtopic.php?f=159&t=19627 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=19627)
Now, we have the autopsy. Whose autopsy has LAPD and prosecutor? Who is chief coroner LAKSHMANAN SATHYAVAGISWARAN? Immigrant from India, hindus. He reportedly perfomed autopsy on MJ and OJ Simpson, & other fames. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakshmanan ... vagiswaran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakshmanan_Sathyavagiswaran). Did he testify on CM prelim? I don't recall. Could this guy do favor to MJ or his guards that may have connection to him to get fake autopsy, or he was bribed taking responsibility? Could he confuse Michael look alike with real MJ? These are answers we should find out that will clarify IMO everything. I feel we are close to the answer we are hungry for. If coroner did favor, then Michael is not coming back cause he is not a type human who can hurt person that helped him. But that's not as much important for us as to know 1000% that Michael is alive. Right?
-
By TS: "However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level."
By MDC: "TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned. You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me. Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile."
TS, you wrote In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion
I didn't read all of your previous posts (I'm sorry!) and I surely missed a lot of very valuable information because of that. But because I didn't read all of your posts, maybe I'm reading this particular post of yours in a different/objective way and so I'm going to ask you this question (and take the risk to be kicked out of this forum immediately, but you said it yourself, there is no limit of discussion)
So, is it possible that you are one of the bad (illuminati) "guys" that somehow got information about Michael's plans, notes (for instance, which were found during the raid) and are you only misleading us, distract us from his murder (by using Michaels own hoaxplans) for almost 2 years now, or are you really sincere and helping us to piece the puzzle together? See, you can be an insider, but which side are you on?
Sorry, I had to ask, because personally I'm becoming tired of the riddles and puzzles after almost 2 years. My apologies for my rude question.
-
Bare with me I don't make a lot of post but RPM made a good point.
The children.
I am a mother of 3 children and while I don't have the resources or money that Michael has, if I felt that my life was in danger the first thing I would be to remove my children from immediate danger. I would like to think that Michael would do the same thing. Any parent would want to do the right thing and that would be to move the children out of harms way, right? Michael had waited how many years to have children of his own? He even said that he carried around baby dolls because he wanted a child so bad. We've all heard how he took his children practically out of the womb himself and whisked them away to the safety of his arms. I can not fathom the idea that he the man who made it his life mission to do everything in his power to help children all across the world would confess that his life was in danger but yet do nothing to ensure that his children were safe.
I could be wrong, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
-
Bare with me I don't make a lot of post but RPM made a good point.
The children.
I am a mother of 3 children and while I don't have the resources or money that Michael has, if I felt that my life was in danger the first thing I would be to remove my children from immediate danger. I would like to think that Michael would do the same thing. Any parent would want to do the right thing and that would be to move the children out of harms way, right? Michael had waited how many years to have children of his own? He even said that he carried around baby dolls because he wanted a child so bad. We've all heard how he took his children practically out of the womb himself and whisked them away to the safety of his arms. I can not fathom the idea that he the man who made it his life mission to do everything in his power to help children all across the world would confess that his life was in danger but yet do nothing to ensure that his children were safe.
I could be wrong, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
I definitely agree.
-
By MDC: "TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned. You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me. Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile."
My understanding is
1. IF NEVERLAND WAS RAID AND MJ's DIARY WITH HOAX DETAILS WAS FOUND, THEN MICHAEL NEW IT AND COULD CHANGE HIS PLAN AND ACT SOONER; NOT WATING TO BE KILLED ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN.
2.THE KILLER WOULD NOT BOTHER TO FOLLOW DETAILS OF HOAX PLAN IN RE TIMING, DATES, NUMEROLOGY, STORY,NAMES, etc. BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT. NO ONE HAD KNOWN MICHAEL'S PLAN DETAILS FOR THEM TO FOLLOW IT TO DEMOSTRATE THAT MJ HOAXED HIS DEATH ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN.
3. If Michael is dead at all, why we don't have real death picture. Instead we have photoshop posted on youtube and confirmed by Oxman. Was that aslo done by killers according to Michael's hoax plan inviting Ben? THAT WOULD BE RISKY FOR THEM TO INVOLVE MORE PEOPLE TO THEIR MURDER PLAN BESIDES CONRAD. MORE UNNECESSARY WITNESS & PAYOUT.
-
3. If Michael is dead at all, why we don't have real death picture. Instead we have photoshop posted on youtube and confirmed by Oxman. [/color]
My question also.. errrr errrr
-
[font=Bradley Hand ITC:cy6r03zr]Friends!!! I am very, very impressed with the posts, especially on this, page 3. A tremendous amount of great reasonings and new thoughts!!! I know we are just beginning, but I am so impressed.
Here's a big one for you all!
<!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug --> [/font:cy6r03zr]
-
3. If Michael is dead at all, why we don't have real death picture. Instead we have photoshop posted on youtube and confirmed by Oxman. [/color]
My question also.. errrr errrr
Why not an open casket? When James Brown passed away they showed him in the casket! Don't tell me because they had to remove his brain, bla bla bla.. that is irrelevant. Today they fix dead people with make up and they fix hair very nicely . Unless the person is disfigured that is something else. They still did not engraved his crypt, yet his daughter wears a bracelet 1959-2009, I would understand if they were a poor family did not have the money to pay for the engravement, what on earth??? They are millionaires. My first first scenario when he passed on June 25/2009 was he faked his death because he did not want to do the 50 concerts. He couldn't back out because if he did AEG would have sewed him millions,and millions, the best thing was to fake his death make more money with the movie THIS IS IT (which he did) and much more, which it did happen. I had written a post earlier stating that Murray was helping Michael reporting what the illuminati wanted to kill Michael, Murray was the scapegoat, more I think about it the more I feel the Illuminati has nothing to do with it. Murray did help Michael, faking his death somehow, he is the one who cleaned all the loose ends, the tapes missing from Michael's room. The Ironic thing is that Michael told Randy Phillips he wants Murray to be his doctor and that is final, so Michael is the one who chose Murray, I am sure they had an agreement somehow. Michael was not addicted to propofol, nor any othe pills, he had no insomnia. This was all a ruse to show us how fragile Michael was. I cannot shake this feeling I have, that Michael at 50 did not have the stamina he had in his 30's and 40's he was afraid of failure so he took this way out. You know Michael is 1 yr older then I and believe me I would do the same, if I had all that money I would find a real good hidding place and just leave. I am sure most of you will not agree, please respect/ my opinion like I respected yours. Like I said this was my first scenario from the day he supposedly passed then I changed my mind, but now I am going back lolol/
-
Michael Jackson's Family Hunts Missing Cash
Monday, June 29, 2009
Members of Michael Jackson's family have begun stripping his home of his possessions and hunting for a large amount of cash he had hidden at the California mansion. The pop legend passed away on Thursday (25Jun09) following a cardiac arrest at his rented Holmby Hills home.
A removal van was spotted at the residence just 24 hours after the star's shocking death, with his family believed to be packing up his possessions and putting them into a storage facility. Jackson's former nanny Grace Rwaramba claims the singer's mother, Katherine, called her shortly after his demise to ask about a sum of money the superstar is believed to have stashed at the house.
Rwaramba says, "Katherine just called me. She said, ‘Grace, you remember Michael used to hide cash at the house. I am here. Where can it be?’ I told her to look at the garbage bags and under the carpets. This woman just lost her son a few hours ago and she is calling me to know where the money is!"
So here, we see the family were really concerned about the MONEY, not about MJ...Does seem like a family in mourning to you ?????? And why the importance of the cash...as TS has nicely pointed out with this post....
Its all about the money....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 2 million to be exacthttp://www.absolutepictures.com/news.php?id=8080
“Michael WAS murdered,” declared La Toya, 53. “And we don’t think just one person was involved. Rather, it was a conspiracy of people. I feel it was all about money. Michael was worth well over a billion in music publishing assets and somebody killed him for that. He was worth more dead than alive.”
As she posed a series of vital questions about 50-year-old Jacko’s sudden death 17 days ago at his rented mansion in Los Angeles, La Toya said the pop icon was:
■FED a series of addictive drugs to keep him submissive and controlled.
■KEPT from his family by manipulative people who blocked their visits.
■WORKED to exhaustion even though he DIDN’T want to do the gruelling string of 50 shows due to start at London’s O2 arena tomorrow.
■ROBBED of [highlight=#ff0000:jnhubkc2]TWO MILLION[/highlight:jnhubkc2] in cash and gems as he lay dying.
So TS...you show us notes with pictures of MJ on it to the value of 2 million dollars...
Is this a clue ????
-
How did they know that he had money stashed. Surely he didn’t just blurt it out to them. When he first “died” that seemed to be the major concern. Where is the money? In a time of total despair, when an unexpected swift death occurs, no one is thinking straight. It’s emotional, reason sets in later. Money would be the last thing on their minds. That says to me, no death but perhaps Michael instructed them to go there for it having left it behind in his haste.
-
Michael Jackson's Family Hunts Missing Cash
Monday, June 29, 2009
Members of Michael Jackson's family have begun stripping his home of his possessions and hunting for a large amount of cash he had hidden at the California mansion. The pop legend passed away on Thursday (25Jun09) following a cardiac arrest at his rented Holmby Hills home.
A removal van was spotted at the residence just 24 hours after the star's shocking death, with his family believed to be packing up his possessions and putting them into a storage facility. Jackson's former nanny Grace Rwaramba claims the singer's mother, Katherine, called her shortly after his demise to ask about a sum of money the superstar is believed to have stashed at the house.
Rwaramba says, "Katherine just called me. She said, ‘Grace, you remember Michael used to hide cash at the house. I am here. Where can it be?’ I told her to look at the garbage bags and under the carpets. This woman just lost her son a few hours ago and she is calling me to know where the money is!"
So here, we see the family were really concerned about the MONEY, not about MJ...Does seem like a family in mourning to you ?????? And why the importance of the cash...as TS has nicely pointed out with this post....
Its all about the money....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 2 million to be exacthttp://www.absolutepictures.com/news.php?id=8080
“Michael WAS murdered,” declared La Toya, 53. “And we don’t think just one person was involved. Rather, it was a conspiracy of people. I feel it was all about money. Michael was worth well over a billion in music publishing assets and somebody killed him for that. He was worth more dead than alive.”
As she posed a series of vital questions about 50-year-old Jacko’s sudden death 17 days ago at his rented mansion in Los Angeles, La Toya said the pop icon was:
■FED a series of addictive drugs to keep him submissive and controlled.
■KEPT from his family by manipulative people who blocked their visits.
■WORKED to exhaustion even though he DIDN’T want to do the gruelling string of 50 shows due to start at London’s O2 arena tomorrow.
■ROBBED of [highlight=#ff0000:5lmkm4c0]TWO MILLION[/highlight:5lmkm4c0] in cash and gems as he lay dying.
[highlight=#ff0040:5lmkm4c0]So TS...you show us notes with pictures of MJ on it to the value of 2 million dollars[/highlight:5lmkm4c0]...
Is this a clue ????
[highlight=#bfff80:5lmkm4c0]render to ceaser what is ceaser's and to god what is god's[/highlight:5lmkm4c0]
i didn't give the whole scene but this came from when the disciples asked jesus about paying taxes to ceaser. he asked for a coin. he showed it to them and asked who was pictured on it and they responded ceaser.
so ts is this to say something about rendering to michael what is michaels?
-
How did they know that he had money stashed. Surely he didn’t just blurt it out to them. When he first “died” that seemed to be the major concern. Where is the money? In a time of total despair, when an unexpected swift death occurs, no one is thinking straight. It’s emotional, reason sets in later. Money would be the last thing on their minds. That says to me, no death but perhaps Michael instructed them to go there for it having left it behind in his haste.
Exactly......and then Katherine is shopping for sleeping bags at Target the next day....
-
all of the dudes on the american money are dead. think that would fly as a good excuse not to pay taxes. sorry mr. tax man only doin what jesus would do . penguin/
-
Okay, I will give it a shot. Although I am 100% convinced of a hoax and nothing you will say or debunk will make me change my mind, I did notice that it's quite hard to actually prove that it's a hoax. But if it were that easy, we wouldn't have so many members leaving, even still after 2 years.
I don't think any of us will be able to come with absolute proof, most of it will be just common sense and 'too big to be a coincidence', but that's good enough when there are 100+ of those so called 'coincidences'.
I have been quite certain since the news broke on June 25, but Dave Dave really sealed the deal after all the 'coincidences' I found in between. But Dave Dave is not proof, far from that. Although I am convinced it was MJ, I can't prove it. All we do know is that it was not the real Dave Dave, that's easy to see when comparing the footage with pictures from Dave.
As for the illuminati out-thinking MJ: no way. As mentioned earlier, they are predictable, where MJ is definitely UNpredictable. I really think he's too smart for them and he has the connections, power and money to fool them. He himself stated multiple times that they were out to get him and that he feared for his life. Unless Mike has an IQ as low as the average room temperature (in Celcius), I really don't think he would hire a doctor that can't even do CPR.
I also agree with JukeBox about the family: they would NOT let this happen or be involved in a plot to kill him. But let's say they would, why didn't they let the life insurance be paid out? Why cash it and loose a lot of money?
Also, why release a will where none of them get anything? If they would have planned to kill him, why not fabricate a will in which they all get lots of $$$? No one gets anything and even the kids have to wait for any of it. So IF they would be in on a murder plot, the motive clearly isn't money. Is attention a motive? Nah... Out of 10 people, one or two might be evil to the bone like that, but all of them? Doesn't make sense.
And the Death Certificate with the 'Joseph' on it, and not the Joe. There is no proof what his legal name was on June 25, could have been John Doe for all we know, but aka's must be stated on a DC as well. MJ used both Joseph and Joe on ducuments, and even in court (Dangerous deposition vs. 2005 trial). That means that those two names have to be stated on the DC.
LaToya said she signed the DC, it's a lie. LaToya is NOT authorized to sign a DC, never in a million years. So why lie? 2 options: she lies for her brother to make a hoax more believable or she lies for the illuminati to make a hoax more believable. In the last case: what is her motive? And why would the illuminati make it look like a hoax? So that people will dig into the story and find out what we found out? Doesn't make sense either.
And if MJ was killed by the illuminati, Murray would have been either in jail, or dead by now. He would have been the 'lone gunman'. There is too much speculation, also in the press, whether or not Murray should be found guilty.
Lastly (for now, I will think of more when I had some sleep), if MJ were dead and murdered, than YOU, my dear TS, would be pure evil. That I don't believe either. If I would be wrong about that, it would be my biggest fail ever. I have failed before, but in those cases I always had doubts. No doubts now. But if you want to try and make me believe you are pure evil, give it a go ;)
-
Welcome back TS! I haven't commented on many threads lately but have still been reading EVERYTHING regarding TIAI and also the different levels.
For two years I have been trying to convince my husband that this is a hoax. He thinks MJ was murdered. So judging by that experience this isn't going to be easy. I'm going to get some thoughts together and try to post later.
-
Hi, Sugar Pie. Look at the funky money you brought!
Ooooohhhhh, my teeny brain cells can't chew all of this, but I guess there's always this to ask for the sake of debate: Has it ever been asked if it's possible that, after he had already begun planning out the hoax, that THEY somehow found out about it, and had MJ and the family blackmailed/threatened or something- eventually capturing or killing him and forcing the rest of the family to carry out the hoax as if it were a hoax, including all of this "Murray killing a double or not/25th confusion", to mask the real deed/imprisoned-somewhere-MJ? Even if people figured out what they had done, there really wouldn't be any way for us or the like-minded to do anything about it, and then with all the confusion and whatnot..if he were dead, he's dead, and THEY've already made two years worth of astronomical bucks.. and the family is stuck in the grip.. or maybe he's still with them, too.. and this would all put peeps like Ortega in on it- hm, not likely, given how friendly they seem.. but I guess the word is "SEEM".. I know I went wrong on this somewhere, but alas, I'll ask..
-
excerpts from the book La Toya:
Michael also notes that 2003 is even more afraid to walk around your own garden because I was afraid they would kill him. He says he knows who is behind the development of it. Latoya asks who, Michel says "I want my catalog, I want my publisher, they will do whatever it takes to get it. I will kill you. I hate my life. I do not even want the catalog for more"
Michael says he was desperate not to eat or take care of itself. They pleaded with him to take at least vitamins. She says most of the time Michael was alone in his bungalow.
- Says Michael has been using a bulletproof vest since 2001 (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before the trial of Michael would have said: "If I go, I will be killed."
- Michael says he was a zombie after hearing the verdict, drainage, distant. She says the experience marked him, and he believes he would be killed that day.
- She says the trial had done serious damage to it, a crack formed in her mind, she says she has lost her will to fight, and it was like he was lost.
Michael says he did not want to do more, fearing he would be killed on stage and wanted to produce and direct films with Peter Jackson.
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
-
Welcome back TS. I was expecting you to come back when the trial begins but it is nice to see you earlier. bounce/
Ahh this is a nice topic to discuss about. Well if Michael was murdered then the family has to be illuminati, as well as Kenny Ortega, TII dancers, Teddy Riley, many of Michael's friend's and also YOU. To me the most solid proof of the hoax is the numerology. I do not believe illuminati would bother to arrange the dates like this and I do not believe they would bother to give out clues. On the contrary they would be trying to cover their tracks. I don't get the reason why they would bother to send someone here to tell us more about the details of the hoax because as much as we learn about the hoax, as much as we reach to a higher awareness about illuminati and NWO. How many of us knew this much about illuminati and NWO before June 25th? I do believe that Michael wanted to let us know and this is one of the main reasons of the hoax. For years he tried to show it with his songs and speeches but unfortunately that wasn't enough for people to see the naked truth and he knew that. He had to do something bigger! And he did. And thanks to Michael WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
The clues we have been receiving are so unique and so Michaelish and to me noone but only Michael can arrange all these details and clues. We're getting the clues from everywhere. Not only from one single media source. Commercials, movies, tv shows, paintings etc... I don't see a reason for illuminati to give out clues through movies, commercials or tv shows. And why would they bother to make it look like a hoax and he is still alive? If they killed him, that's it. They killed him and they would do nothing. They don't need to do anything. They would have reached their goal already by killing him, no need to give out clues.
I know that some of the fans think that Michael's family can do anything to earn more $$$. I do believe that Michael loves his family a lot and his family loves him a lot too. I would never ever believe that they would be included in a murder plot where their brother, their son was going to get killed. NO WAY! The family knows about the hoax and noone could force them for the Liberian Girl pictures at the funeral. Noone could force them to make the memorial and the funeral on those dates under a full moon. This is an amazing plan which was planned for long years. This is something that has never ever done before. This is a movie, an ARG, a show, a take over and the story of a King who comes BACK to life after death. This is so unique and so genius. This is so MICHAEL!
I would like to read if you or any of the believers can debunk the hoax with all the aspects we discussed till today. Then I would be leaving everything behind, mourn for Michael (once more), and then go back to my pre hoax life. Until then, I'll be here as a KNOWER. Noone and nothing can shake my faith! :)
-
excerpts from the book La Toya:
Michael also notes that 2003 is even more afraid to walk around your own garden because I was afraid they would kill him. He says he knows who is behind the development of it. Latoya asks who, Michel says "I want my catalog, I want my publisher, they will do whatever it takes to get it. I will kill you. I hate my life. I do not even want the catalog for more"
Michael says he was desperate not to eat or take care of itself. They pleaded with him to take at least vitamins. She says most of the time Michael was alone in his bungalow.
- Says Michael has been using a bulletproof vest since 2001 (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before the trial of Michael would have said: "If I go, I will be killed."
- Michael says he was a zombie after hearing the verdict, drainage, distant. She says the experience marked him, and he believes he would be killed that day.
- She says the trial had done serious damage to it, a crack formed in her mind, she says she has lost her will to fight, and it was like he was lost.
Michael says he did not want to do more, fearing he would be killed on stage and wanted to produce and direct films with Peter Jackson.
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
Erm, I don't know if you were replying to me or not, but I'll respond to the first part of your post, because- I apologize- I couldn't really understand the last part: What if MJ and the family had been under THEIR thumb for a while, and it was very difficult to find anything to do or anyone to turn to? THEY are so powerful.. Maybe has done/is doing something and they don't make it public- I don't know, I just thought I'd put the concept out there..
-
excerpts from the book La Toya:
Michael also notes that 2003 is even more afraid to walk around your own garden because I was afraid they would kill him. He says he knows who is behind the development of it. Latoya asks who, Michel says "I want my catalog, I want my publisher, they will do whatever it takes to get it. I will kill you. I hate my life. I do not even want the catalog for more"
Michael says he was desperate not to eat or take care of itself. They pleaded with him to take at least vitamins. She says most of the time Michael was alone in his bungalow.
- [glow=red:3s73ciwc]Says Michael has been using a bulletproof vest since 2001[/glow:3s73ciwc] (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before the trial of Michael would have said: "If I go, I will be killed."
- Michael says he was a zombie after hearing the verdict, drainage, distant. She says the experience marked him, and he believes he would be killed that day.
- She says the trial had done serious damage to it, a crack formed in her mind, she says she has lost her will to fight, and it was like he was lost.
Michael says he did not want to do more, fearing he would be killed on stage and wanted to produce and direct films with Peter Jackson.
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
The part that I highlighted, is that from the book? That Michael used a bulletproof vest? Possibly so if he was in fear for his life, but then again I ask, if he was in such danger why did he go out with his children? He continued to do things in public and brought his children along with him. Why?
Perhaps I'm not wrapping my head around this the right way.
-
[offtopic:2ozzou3y]So what's the main point of why are we here? Because we love Michael or because we are addicted to debates, investigations and discussions?
TS you did a very smart thing with these levels ..is this part of some training or it's just to keep us busy?[/offtopic:2ozzou3y]
-
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:wa78o6wa] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:wa78o6wa] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.
Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius.
Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:wa78o6wa]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:wa78o6wa] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.
We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander.
And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:wa78o6wa]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:wa78o6wa] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.
But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
-
Hello TS,
I also figured that you would wait for the dust to settle. Lol Even so, it’s nice to see you post again!
I know that I hardly ever post on these redirects. I’d rather lurk around and see what’s being said. But for some reason, I feel compelled to get involved.
Now as for the evidence to support the belief that Michael is alive….I really have none to offer. Like many have said before me, this is all based on a gut feeling, intuition and what my heart has been telling me for the past year and 8 months.
This has been a spiritual journey for me and it has changed my life COMPLETELY. I was not a fan of his at all and I didn’t follow him nor did I know much about him. And yet his ‘death’ knocked the wind out of me!
Something that manages to pull the rug from under me (a former atheist who was desensitized to the world around me) like that and leave me emotionally crippled on the floor with no hope of ever being able to stand on my own two feet without God has to have a purpose.
For everything, there is a reason.
My main argument against the murder theory is as follows:
I firmly believe that there was a hidden agenda behind the accusations that Michael faced in both 1993 and 2003. Yes I do agree that there were people in the industry that were jealous of his success but I do not believe that this was the main reason that Michael faced such accusations. As most of you all remember, the media firestorm that occurred as a result of both cases was phenomenal and it pretty much overshadowed everything else that was occurring at the time.
I am of the belief that Michael was framed by the powers that be in order to cause a distraction.
But a distraction from what? >>>>>>>>I think it is our job to figure this one out.
As for the illuminati, I would rather say ‘the powers that be’ because they are not the only ones that hold the control but rather are controlled, along with other groups, by an even higher up organization.
I do not really like to say’ Illuminati’ because it’s generic and they are not the only ones that control but rather are the ones who are controlled by an even higher up organization.
Killing Michael would only serve to hinder their agenda to demoralize the people of the world.
Just think about it…
Look what happened in the wake of his ‘death’. People started listening to his music even more. Many now have a deeper understanding of what he is all about (L.O.V.E.) even if they have no idea that he is still alive. They still carry his legacy.
He now has an even bigger presence in the world, a presence that cannot be diminished. His message continues with an even louder and clearer voice, the voice of his ever so devoted and passionate fans.
With Michael physically ‘gone’, the powers that be would not be able to use Michael’s plight as a media diversion to thwart attention away from something that they would much rather have kept under the carpet so to speak.
It would not be in their (the powers that be) best interest to have Michael murdered.
Here’s another thing that gets me:
The family is EXTREMELY complacent when dealing with Michael’s ‘murder’ as they claim it to be.
Sarahli and The RPM :
I totally agree with you on your all or your reasoning. I think someone here said it better than I could have. >
If Michael really is dead (which I know he isn’t), my high regard for the family would most certainly diminish because, judging from their strange behavior and lack or interest in justice ‘for a life taken’, the Jackson family, including his children, has to be the most heartless family I have EVER come to know of.
I feel so horrible to say this but the only reason that I can even say such a thing is because I truly believe that there is a hoax and that the family is in on it.
But Like I said, I have no concrete evidence to support my theories or beliefs…All I base them on is logic.
God bless you all,
~alma~
-
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:2f3bg0eb] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:2f3bg0eb] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.
Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius.
Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:2f3bg0eb]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:2f3bg0eb] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.
We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander.
And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:2f3bg0eb]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:2f3bg0eb] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.
But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
Hey MJonmind,
I’m quite fascinated with what you have posted. It’s a very interesting take on everything. I understand why you posted it and I can see why you have those concerns. I do hope that TS will respond to you.
But this is what I have to say about what you have posted and I hope no one crucifies me for saying it.
Before I say this, I would like to say that I do not believe this to be so but I will say it for the sale of debate.
AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE EVERYONE TO DEBUNK THIS THEORY.
So here we go……
If what you have expressed is indeed the case
THEN..
Michel Jackson is the ANTICHRIST spoken of in the bible.
I do NOT believe this for one second because the bible is very clear about who the antichrist is, but since the previous post brought up interesting points, I thought I would entertain the idea.
The antichrist is said to have suffered a wound as unto death but the deadly wound was healed and he came back to life and the whole world was astonished saying “who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
This is in Revelations 13.
This event talked about in the bible can be likened to what will happen if Michael decided to BAM. The whole would be totally shocked and they would think that he came back from the dead. And everyone will say “Who is like Michael Jackson?! No one can even compare!”
I would again like to stress that I DO NOT believe that Michael is the antichrist because in the bible, the antichrist is not defined as a single individual from the future (our modern times) but rather a dynasty with certain traits that describe a well known religious leadership dynasty that has both religious and political power. The only leadership that we know of that has such influence is the papacy.
[glow=red:2f3bg0eb]I can assure you that Michael is NOT the antichrist![/glow:2f3bg0eb]
Happy debunking!!!!
<3
-
If TS was an illuminati agent he wouldn't be promoting the returning of the pyramid upside down or raising awareness on the evil works of the dark side as he's been doing in his updates, nor talk about the beauty of God's system. Doesn't make sense really. I agree that the term illuminati is reducing, I call it the dark side.
The main message of the hoax is [fade:1g5vx41f]"It's all for L.O.V.E."[/fade:1g5vx41f] .... I highly doubt that this is what they would promote as a message. And Michael is the Messenger and has been since many years now .... certainly not the anti-christ that as said by WhiteNight I believe is a system and not a single person. So I will say that the message of the hoax doesn't fit with what the PTB or Illuminati or dark side would promote. If they really discovered Michael's plan they would have modified it. One big point against the murder theory I think = the message.
I also believe that they certainly can't have discovered this plan because this is God's Plan. I know it doesn't fit into this category of investigation but this is a strong belief.
If there was forensic evidence that this is a hoax then there would hardly be a hoax in the first place, so it's normal we don't have the BIG evidence proving it's a hoax without the shadow of a doubt. This has always been all the pieces of the puzzle put together that makes it to be a hoax (without the shadow of a doubt ;) ).
-
However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.
But how can you prove that?...some people don't think the Illuminati exists.
Of course no one can prove that this is a hoax, but if you were in a court and you had testimony by all the family (the family saying MJ was a drug addict, wasn't a drug addict, that they had interventions or that he was not addicted to drugs and the continual change of stories of where they were when MJ 'died') isn't that enough...if a jury looked at this, so if this was an actual case, no one would know what to believe, because the don't have a straight story...I know we are not in court here, but it would discredit you to continually change your story, the events won't add up, so people will have a hard time believing anything you say.
-
Firstly, thank you to everyone who has contributed so far to this thread. There's been some thoughtful and interesting posts - even the more 'controversial' ones - I've enjoyed reading them all.
Disclaimer: I don’t necessarily believe what I’m about to write! Just exploring other sides – trying to find the truth, you know.
TS, I understand you want us to explore every possibility, but you have made a huge jump here, an ASSumption even, (if I’m allowed to use that word!) by using the hypothetical scenario that the illuminati were responsible for MJ’s murder.
Backtracking and keeping things simple, to explore if MJ is dead/was killed why not go down the route of Dr Murray ‘killing’ him simply through an irresponsible use of medication? Why the jump to Illuminati? If he’s dead, is the ‘simple’ theory of manslaughter actually, really, that unbelievable? It seems to be suiting the majority of the world, after all. Or is that what they want us to believe? Just saying.
Because it was MJ, did it have to be made more complicated, more sinister? Could the family not accept a tragic ‘accidental’ death (much like we couldn’t), and so began the mysterious references to the involvement of ‘others’. Did the family instigate and perpetuate the doubts, the hoax?
You said: "However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?"
That would have MJ believing Murray was helping him with his hoax, whereas he was really about to kill him, at the planned time. So MJ would’ve never known he was being deceived, but he could at least have the satisfaction of looking down from his cloud up above and seeing that his meticulous planning was not going to waste, as his hoax was still being carried forward, to the letter, by his killers – it didn’t die with him.
Oh really? I can see no need or motive for a hoax, unless it’s MJ’s and he’s alive!
But if others were involved, Illuminati, TPTB (which is the term I prefer to use), whoever – there’s a couple of options. Either it’s their hoax, constructed and planned to be totally Michaelish, over many years, involving the control of MJ’s lyrics, speeches and interviews, in fact his whole life, or they must somehow have known of MJ’s hoax plans, carried out their murder and continued with MJ’s hoax, as I said above. In either case, it would appear that you, TS, have been put in place to further their cause. There’s a hoax, whatever's going on. What would be the motive for either of these options?
What is the motive for a hoax? A murder could’ve been far simpler, a ‘natural’ death. Why involve a doctor and a court case? But even if they did, with the power they have they would’ve surely got Murray acquitted or jailed months ago, case closed, job done.
So, I’m back to the money – it is the motive for many crimes, and it has been said many times that MJ is worth more dead than alive. But is the hoax itself, over and above the ‘death’, making anyone any money?
TPTB are about control, right? Did they misjudge MJ’s millions of supporters and fans, did they think they’d all jump on the hoax bandwagon and be controlled that way? Why then are they carrying on with what is little more than a handful of hoax believers? Why are you still here TS? Are you controlling me?
I realise I’ve not said much, if anything, here in support of the hoax for you to debunk with the murder theory! I’m with you here TS – I want to try and prove he’s dead, I want to try to prove it’s my imagination and fantasy, not because I want him dead (heaven forbid) but because I want the truth, whatever that may be, about Michael - and about myself.
'There is no hoax, the illuminati got him'. I’m really interested in hearing how you’re going to prove it.
-
Welcome back TS. I was expecting you to come back when the trial begins but it is nice to see you earlier. bounce/
Ahh this is a nice topic to discuss about. Well if Michael was murdered then the family has to be illuminati, as well as Kenny Ortega, TII dancers, Teddy Riley, many of Michael's friend's and also YOU. To me the most solid proof of the hoax is the numerology. I do not believe illuminati would bother to arrange the dates like this and I do not believe they would bother to give out clues. On the contrary they would be trying to cover their tracks. I don't get the reason why they would bother to send someone here to tell us more about the details of the hoax because as much as we learn about the hoax, as much as we reach to a higher awareness about illuminati and NWO. How many of us knew this much about illuminati and NWO before June 25th? I do believe that Michael wanted to let us know and this is one of the main reasons of the hoax. For years he tried to show it with his songs and speeches but unfortunately that wasn't enough for people to see the naked truth and he knew that. He had to do something bigger! And he did. And thanks to Michael WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
The clues we have been receiving are so unique and so Michaelish and to me noone but only Michael can arrange all these details and clues. We're getting the clues from everywhere. Not only from one single media source. Commercials, movies, tv shows, paintings etc... I don't see a reason for illuminati to give out clues through movies, commercials or tv shows. And why would they bother to make it look like a hoax and he is still alive? If they killed him, that's it. They killed him and they would do nothing. They don't need to do anything. They would have reached their goal already by killing him, no need to give out clues.
I know that some of the fans think that Michael's family can do anything to earn more $$$. I do believe that Michael loves his family a lot and his family loves him a lot too. I would never ever believe that they would be included in a murder plot where their brother, their son was going to get killed. NO WAY! The family knows about the hoax and noone could force them for the Liberian Girl pictures at the funeral. Noone could force them to make the memorial and the funeral on those dates under a full moon. This is an amazing plan which was planned for long years. This is something that has never ever done before. This is a movie, an ARG, a show, a take over and the story of a King who comes BACK to life after death. This is so unique and so genius. This is so MICHAEL!
I would like to read if you or any of the believers can debunk the hoax with all the aspects we discussed till today. Then I would be leaving everything behind, mourn for Michael (once more), and then go back to my pre hoax life. Until then, I'll be here as a KNOWER. Noone and nothing can shake my faith! :)
Pure Love I love your post and I couldn't agree more. Why would the Illuminati allow us to know about them, about their plans and about their cult through this whole hoax unless there is someone else behind this whole thing. And yes, we discovered everything about the Illuminati after we found out about the hoax, i.e. after the 25th of June. Which murderer would murder someone and leave clues about where he comes from and what his beliefs are? Are the Illuminati guys that stupid????? There is no doubt that Michael is behind all this.... So TS..... I'm keeping the faith.... I believe that Michael is still alive and doing great.......... and I would like to thank him for exposing the Illuminati to us through this hoax......... Thank you Michael, God bless you
Peace
-
My comments are in RED
["TS_comments"]
"As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything."... Really? You've been gone for many weeks. Needed time to conjure up more "thought provoking" theories?
"Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend"!... Why would ppl have trouble accusing you? And why are you "attempting" to defend the murder theory when you've been deferring ppl to believe a hoax?
"However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this?"...So, is that what you're saying? And can YOU debunk this?
"If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!!"....That's not necesarily true. It's possible that not ALL family members know.
I for one don't have stone proof of a hoax OR murder. I can't debunk either. We could go 'round and 'round with this shit for two more years. But I will believe he's alive until there's solid PROOF that he's dead. And as of yet, I've not seen his dead body. And THAT'S what it's gonna take. I refuse to let any damn body put one thought in my head that he allowed ppl to take him out. No matter how many numbers you throw at me. Respectively.
P.S. These are MY thoughts only. Like TS said, I'm not here for a popularity contest. I'm just here for the truth and I don't think I'll get it by playing games.
-
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:34s72bs0] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:34s72bs0] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.
Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius.
Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:34s72bs0]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:34s72bs0] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.
We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander.
And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:34s72bs0]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:34s72bs0] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.
But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
Ok MJonmind.... let's discuss this! Why would the Illuminati bother themselves with this hoax? They punished MJ once.. threw him in jail....But MJ didn't accept this and planned a revenge... I would do the same if I were in his place......
Why would MJ agree to play this role and BAM when they ask them to? MJ was under mind control and we know he broke free (black panther video) So why would he suddenly return to them? I must admit that I don't know MJ that much but we all know that he is a very brave man. Remember when he said in front of thousands of people that Mottola is the devil? Wouldn't he say the same about the Illuminati too? Would he follow their plans blindly? I doubt. He is not the kind of guy who does what other people tells him to do. In my opinion this is the main reason for the hoax.... raisng awareness about what 's going on around us... and again, why would the Illuminati bother themselves and plan such a hoax in the first place. They could have finished him in silence leaving no clues behind....That's the way these people work.
Blessings
-
However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.
But how can you prove that?...some people don't think the Illuminati exists.
mhmm, like me.
I don 't believe in god, numerology, or the Illuminati... but I concede that my belief (or not) in such things does not matter... only my acceptance that Michael believes in these things, and I do accept that. For the god and numerology parts it hasn't been important for me to believe in the course of investigation and connecting the dots, but this one I'm having difficulty wrapping my brain around. In order to play along with you this time I would have to pretend to believe and that feels quite disingenuous.
Maybe I'll figure out a way to participate, or how to come to terms with this in a few days.
Ps, happy 2 years TS, thanks for sticking with us.
-
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:2hure5or] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:2hure5or] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.
Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius.
Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:2hure5or]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:2hure5or] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.
We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander.
And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:2hure5or]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:2hure5or] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.
But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
Ok MJonmind.... let's discuss this! Why would the Illuminati bother themselves with this hoax? They punished MJ once.. threw him in jail....But MJ didn't accept this and planned a revenge... I would do the same if I were in his place......
Why would MJ agree to play this role and BAM when they ask them to? MJ was under mind control and we know he broke free (black panther video) So why would he suddenly return to them? I must admit that I don't know MJ that much but we all know that he is a very brave man. Remember when he said in front of thousands of people that Mottola is the devil? Wouldn't he say the same about the Illuminati too? Would he follow their plans blindly? I doubt. He is not the kind of guy who does what other people tells him to do. In my opinion this is the main reason for the hoax.... raisng awareness about what 's going on around us... and again, why would the Illuminati bother themselves and plan such a hoax in the first place. They could have finished him in silence leaving no clues behind....That's the way these people work.
Blessings
-
@alsmom, Instead of having the 'I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head' mindset, why don't you use this opportunity to explore these thoughts with us. If your belief that MJ is alive is based on firm ground it will not shake by entertaining other ideas. It will be strengthened by being able to debunk them. That's my experience anyway.
I don't think we share the same views on TS if you think he is 'playing games'. But that's ok, I don't expect us all to agree!
-
3. If Michael is dead at all, why we don't have real death picture. Instead we have photoshop posted on youtube and confirmed by Oxman. [/color]
My question also.. errrr errrr
and where was the open casket???? I didn´t see his body . suspicious//
-
And if there wasn't Illuminati? I know that TS only has this alternative, but to me the most convinvente would be the existence of a mob that wanted to stop for some reason Michael to back to his brilliant career. The reason may be envy, racism or revenge. For me it's still very strange that only a few months after Michael to do the protest in 2002, Bashir appears to ruin his life and shortly after the allegations in early 2003.
Defending the theory of murder is not so difficult, especially after a weekend that I saw again several documentaries and entevistas about Michael's death.
It's amazing how people say the same thing: Michael was hopelessly addicted to painkillers. One such documentary cites the appearance of Michael, very thin, with droopy eyes and a little strange behavior, like no energy.
I'm not saying that is what I believe, but I'll just look at what we're listening to two years of people close to Michael, including the family.
TS said that he followed Jermaine, [shadow=blue:1sq37gio]I'll follow what LaToya wrote in his book, because after all it was quite convincing and has said this since 2009 and Rowe and Joe Jackson too[/shadow:1sq37gio].
People surrounding Michael might actually be manipulating and controlling your life, making it hopelessly addicted.
Maybe Michael hired Murray to protect him somehow, maybe even Murray tried, but who can stand against the plots of a powerful mafia?
This theory of murder is not easy to debunk, but I'll try to follow, according to some very strange things that still make me be believer.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]This Is It[/glow:1sq37gio]
In the film, Michael is beautiful and looks great. We see him as a genius laboring, sending at all and giving the last word. But when it was recorded This Is It? Under what conditions was recorded? For that Michael agreed to record these images? To his children? Randy Phillips and Ortega said yes, he wanted the children to see him acting.
Was it? Or was it more a manipulation?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Michael so thin![/glow:1sq37gio]
He was visibly much thinner than normal. This weight loss may be part of the hoax, something like: he had to look thin and weak and so people do not believe in his addiction. He may have made a proper diet to lose weight as well as actors are to play a role in the movies. Cherill Lee said that his tests were fine and that he was healthy and one doctor said he had a body of an astronaut. The problem is we do not know if these tests exist.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Photo fake, and no body:[/glow:1sq37gio]
The family may have chosen not to show Michael death, one of them said they would not deliver a Michael as trophy to the press have always wanted to overthrow him. It may have been responsible for the family photo ecomendar this fake?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Death certificates and autopsy[/glow:1sq37gio]
There may be other oficial documents, that the public has no access. These documents may have the correct name of Michael, a doctor's signature on the death certificate and a certificate of autopsy true, after all, these documents are official and no one can access. Why would TMZ?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Murray and the murder[/glow:1sq37gio]
All the family say he is a scapegoat. If there was a Mafia to kill Michael, they certainly watched every step of Murray and the fateful day, they may have enjoyed the brief absence of Murray to enter the room and inject the fatal dose of propofol.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Investigations[/glow:1sq37gio]
Certainly there is a serious research being done. And nobody will have access to it until it is completely finished. Perhaps the FBI is involved and know who really killed Michael, but still could not catch them all. Meanwhile, Murray takes the blame of the crime to avoid the real bad guys flee. It can also be protected by the FBI because it runs the risk of being murdered as well. Perhaps for this reason that no one sees and does not know where he hides.
When the investigation comes to an end, Murray will be free and the real gangsters are convicted, do you remember that Murray said: "the truth will prevail."
I do not want none of this is true, I also know that just as the hoax theory, this theory of murder also has its flaws, but proposed a TS game, so I'm in.
I definitely wanna see this theory debunked.
But unfortunately I know that she is more convincing than the hoax, so 99% of people in the world believe in it. confused/ errrr confused/
-
[font=cursive:hbxjtkd3](Trying out new fonts and colors for fun )
I'm thinking a little along the lines being expressed here on this topic, that the illuminati murdering Michael, in any way would eventually come down to being found out. Hell, we are here talking about it, so you know others are too. It would've been much easier for them to just have it look like a natural death, maybe too frail to have rehearsed and had a heart attack...bam done. Not involved the drugs to sleep story or Dr. M. Now, the longer this goes on the more chances of them being found out to be the culprit.
I still think this is Sony behind all this. That was Michael's bandwagon. Even with others in charge now of Sony, they were in it with Sneddon to but him away (read Lynton Guests book). Michael knows that and he also feels e lost a lot of income during those years. I think he's undoing all that damage. Michael was worried that he was going to be killed for that catalog. Who could gain by that? Who would be the THEY? Sony could exercise control of his portion if he died...which also tells me he's not dead. Now, I suppose Sony could majorally be involved with the illuminati, but, again, why draw it out when they could feed the media stories about Michael's health and not have all these years to slip up or have someone blap. Really, to me, it's not possible for them to have done this. People would talk for enough money..no secret is ever secret forever. [/font:hbxjtkd3]
-
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
-
@alsmom, Instead of having the 'I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head' mindset, why don't you use this opportunity to explore these thoughts with us. If your belief that MJ is alive is based on firm ground it will not shake by entertaining other ideas. It will be strengthened by being able to debunk them. That's my experience anyway.
I don't think we share the same views on TS if you think he is 'playing games'. But that's ok, I don't expect us all to agree!
Thank you for your input @curls. I assure you, I don't have the "I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head" mindset. It's almost as if, suddenly, alot of ppl wants us to think or believe Michael is dead. If someone, ANYONE, can give me proof that Michael is dead I'm gonna believe he's alive. And believe you me, I have definately explored the posibility of death. Acually, I believed he was murdered in the beginning. Til Oct. 2009. The demoninator for me NOW is a hoax. I think a "murder for hire" conspiracy is viable. However, Michael just beat them to it. And just like the hoax, I'm gonna guess that this won't be debunked anytime soon. Like I stated in my previous post, I'm not 100% sure of either hoax or murder. Like Janet Jackson said..."If you tell me I'm wrong, then you'd better prove you're right".
I simply posted my thoughts and asked TS a couple of questions. I have a feeling I won't get anwered. At this point I have no idea what his/her intentions are. And is he/she waiting for 30 pages to decide what HIS/HER theory is? There's so many brilliant minds in this forum that posts. What better way to have an "idea" of a theory than to combine those brilliant minds into one? These are NOT insinuations...they're questions. I'm not blinded by false hopes..I just seek the truth. I've not compeltely found it yet. I'm just tired of barking up the wrong trees.
TS's post puts me in mind of when I was growing up. My mother used to tell me something and I would ask, "But why"? She would say, "Because I said so, that's why"! lolol/
Oh, and I know we have something in common...we love Michael Jackson! And I love you! bearhug michael-jackson/
-
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
[font=fantasy:n7ae474u]I hope you can explain this to me a little without being quite so rude by saying I make no logical sense at all...
This is from Wikipedia, which I've found in a lot of other places also:
In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson's stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[26][27][28][29] Sony has not exercised the option.
So, it doesn't say that if MIchael were alive OR dead. Just that it can at any time. I think that Michael would've done all he could've to stopped that from happening....so supposedly are the attny's and estate...but....so also could Michael fight it through them if he's ALIVE.
Tell me why Sony HASN'T done this. Why instead they continue to make larger contracts with Michael? Surely, cutting out Michael's part would gain them perhaps billions.
You can disagree, but does that make what I believe less logical that what you believe? To the world we are illogical anyhow. Isn't why were here to state our reasons to believe, bounce them around? I don't care if you feel MY feelings or thoughts are not logical, it's what I believe. Just as some believe in the illuminati or what, I feel Sony is behind this.[/font:n7ae474u]
-
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
[font=fantasy:1c9wlcwv]I hope you can explain this to me a little without being quite so rude by saying I make no logical sense at all...
This is from Wikipedia, which I've found in a lot of other places also:
In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson's stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[26][27][28][29] Sony has not exercised the option.
So, it doesn't say that if MIchael were alive OR dead. Just that it can at any time. I think that Michael would've done all he could've to stopped that from happening....so supposedly are the attny's and estate...but....so also could Michael fight it through them if he's ALIVE.
Tell me why Sony HASN'T done this. Why instead they continue to make larger contracts with Michael? Surely, cutting out Michael's part would gain them perhaps billions.
You can disagree, but does that make what I believe less logical that what you believe? To the world we are illogical anyhow. Isn't why were here to state our reasons to believe, bounce them around? I don't care if you feel MY feelings or thoughts are not logical, it's what I believe. Just as some believe in the illuminati or what, I feel Sony is behind this.[/font:1c9wlcwv]
Hi @fortocarr! That's totally logical. It seems to me that alot of the roads lead to Sony. At least it's more conceivable..AND..believable IMO. Michael may've had/have illuminati in his thoughts but he loudly, publicly and vehemently protested Sony's actions towards and against him. There's still a vast amount of pieces to this puzzle that I'm seeking. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Also, if indeed Michael is no longer with us on earth and Sony IS behind his death, they're gonna WAIT for a "takeover". It would be too obvious if they didn't ('cuz from what I've read, they can). And my thoughts may not matter to others, but they matter to me <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
-
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
[font=fantasy:30h0voya]I hope you can explain this to me a little without being quite so rude by saying I make no logical sense at all...
This is from Wikipedia, which I've found in a lot of other places also:
In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson's stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[26][27][28][29] Sony has not exercised the option.
So, it doesn't say that if MIchael were alive OR dead. Just that it can at any time. I think that Michael would've done all he could've to stopped that from happening....so supposedly are the attny's and estate...but....so also could Michael fight it through them if he's ALIVE.
Tell me why Sony HASN'T done this. Why instead they continue to make larger contracts with Michael? Surely, cutting out Michael's part would gain them perhaps billions.
You can disagree, but does that make what I believe less logical that what you believe? To the world we are illogical anyhow. Isn't why were here to state our reasons to believe, bounce them around? I don't care if you feel MY feelings or thoughts are not logical, it's what I believe. Just as some believe in the illuminati or what, I feel Sony is behind this.[/font:30h0voya]
Hi @fortocarr! That's totally logical. It seems to me that alot of the roads lead to Sony. At least it's more conceivable..AND..believable IMO. Michael may've had/have illuminati in his thoughts but he loudly, publicly and vehemently protested Sony's actions towards and against him. There's still a vast amount of pieces to this puzzle that I'm seeking. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Also, if indeed Michael is no longer with us on earth and Sony IS behind his death, they're gonna WAIT for a "takeover". It would be too obvious if they didn't ('cuz from what I've read, they can). And my thoughts may not matter to others, but they matter to me <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
[font=fantasy:30h0voya]Thank you dahlin' <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->♥[/font:30h0voya]
-
[font=cursive:13kozebo](Trying out new fonts and colors for fun )
I'm thinking a little along the lines being expressed here on this topic, that the illuminati murdering Michael, in any way would eventually come down to being found out. Hell, we are here talking about it, so you know others are too. It would've been much easier for them to just have it look like a natural death, maybe too frail to have rehearsed and had a heart attack...bam done. Not involved the drugs to sleep story or Dr. M. Now, the longer this goes on the more chances of them being found out to be the culprit.
I still think this is Sony behind all this. That was Michael's bandwagon. Even with others in charge now of Sony, they were in it with Sneddon to but him away (read Lynton Guests book). Michael knows that and he also feels e lost a lot of income during those years. I think he's undoing all that damage. Michael was worried that he was going to be killed for that catalog. Who could gain by that? Who would be the THEY? Sony could exercise control of his portion if he died...which also tells me he's not dead. Now, I suppose Sony could majorally be involved with the illuminati, but, again, why draw it out when they could feed the media stories about Michael's health and not have all these years to slip up or have someone blap. Really, to me, it's not possible for them to have done this. People would talk for enough money..[glow=red:13kozebo]no secret is ever secret forever[/glow:13kozebo]. [/font:13kozebo]
I for one do not think that Michael is dead but there is a quote that says "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead"
Just thought I'd share.
-
Bec, do you believe in the Mafia, some purpose of the Bible as literature, the Morovingians, Freemasons, the Templars, CIA involvement in 911? There’s so many specific entities talked about, that relate to big organizations, secrets, involvements at some point in major government, religions, and major events. At some point you must believe in this but stop at that. We ordinary people can’t possibly know the full scoop, and have to grasp at straws of knowledge.
Some believe the Illuminati was a group name started in Bavaria but long since disbanded, and who knows. TPTB is also a good name, but the thing is we need to call the major opponents or the protagonists in the story something. Perhaps TS is using the term Illuminati because it was what many were using and he is just sticking with that. Like I've said in other posts a while back, maybe in the end we'll find out the good ones are really evil and the evil ones are really good, or the etch-a-stetch will be shaken and everyone gets to start over picking roles and sides. afraid/ God's chess game!! :D
-
the complete summary of the book La Toya, she talks about Dileo, Sony among others
Prologue
- She didn't want to write her first book , Jack Gordon made her do it.
- Jack Gordon controlled her for a decade.
- 2003 interview with Larry King made her want to help other women in the same situation.
- 2007/2008 she decides to write the book she wants to tell her family first so that they don't get the wrong idea. Before she can Michael calls Katherine and says to her that Randy told her that Latoya was writing a book and Katherine says to Michael not to believe Randy.
Chapter 1: He's Going to Kill You
- 1993 incident of Gordon beating her.
- She says Michael knew Gordon was dangerous through Dileo and few years ago warned her that he's going to kill her.
- She says Michael was frightened of Gordon.
Chapter 2: I Wish I Could Have Your Life
- Talks about how no one from outside knew or saw the abuse she received
- Talks about meeting Jack Gordon
- She talks about her JW raising made her trusting people
- Insert Michael going door to door as JW
- Talks about how Gordon started to work for Joe, how she wanted to be independent and leave Joe's management and how Gordon became her manager.
Chapter 3: Illusions of Freedom
- She calls Joe a good starter manager.
- 1987 trip to Japan was Gordon her manager.
- Gordon takes her passport and controls her.
- Insert Michael she says that she believed Michael went through the same things as her and became a victim as wolves targeted and exploited him. Again effects of religious beliefs mentioned.
Chapter 4: A Smile for the Public
- Talks about mind games that Gordon was playing with her such as beating her ant hen saying that he didn't beat her.
- Believes that Gordon gave her mind-altering drugs
- Blames her live performances on Gordon because he didn't let her practice on them as he was afraid that she would talk yo other people and tell them what was happening.
Chapter 5: A Brave Voice Silenced
- Talks about how she tried to tell other people what happened
- She told Gordon beating her to Amir Bayyan from Kool and the Gang, he came to her hotel room with some guys to take her, she didn't go.
- She told to a TV personality who didn't believe her and told to Gordon what she said
- Tito confronted Gordon.
Chapter 6: The Man Behind the Monster
- Gordon's background was in brothels , born in one and owned several of them later on
- Talks about his business deals and her beliefs that he had ties to mobs (later says there was no evidence of such)
- FBI interviews her some time later about this mob ties and tell her that they had been smuggling diamonds and drugs using her to bypass airport security
Chapter 7: Torn from the Nest
- Talks about how Gordon distances her from her family
- Mentions Katherine's suspicions
- Gordon badmouths Katherine calling her "not saint", bad mouths Michael calling him "nothing".
- Latoya talks about Michael "closest thing to God", "unique", "had incredible gift", "perfect instincts" had "sensitivity and compassion".
- Insert story of buying Neverland
- 1987 Michael is able to get a call through her although Gordon limited their communication for her to come and be in TWYMMF video. Says she was supposed to be the lead girl in video but Katherine said it was inappropriate for her to be Michael's love interest again. Oh and apparently she was to be the lead girl in Thriller video and again it was vetoed by Katherine.
- Compares Dileo to Gordon and their controlling style of management. reportedly Dileo said " All I have to do is wind Michael up, point him in the direction I want him to go and he does it".
- 1988 Donald Trump wants to do shows with Michael in Atlantic city, asks for Gordon and Latoya to broker the deal. Gordon forced her to get Michael to commit, Michael would say he'd do it but phone line goes dead. Dileo calls and says he's not doing the shows. Dileo poisoned Michael against Gordon.
- Mentions Michael was also being isolated from family, says that Bill Bray was keeping people away and says she doesn't believe it was Michael's wish , she says Dileo was doing it.
-1992 Hannover, she goes to meet with Michael and Katherine. Gordon goes to convince Michael of Atlantic city deal. "Even though my brother weighted almost nothing, he danced with such energy"
- She can't bring herself telling Michael about abuse.
- Gordon makes her ask Michael about Atlantic city shows , Michael gives a vague answer about competing egos. Few weeks later Michael calls her and says Frank says that Gordon is tied to gangsters and even if one doesn't get paid they would kill him. ( odd: a few pages before she mentions Dileo's 89 firing , she doesn't know the reason but says that Michael said her he didn't trust Dileo the least bit )
- Then comes the phone call she mentioned in the beginning of the book that Michael said her to get away from Gordon or Gordon would kill her.
- Gordon convinces her that Katherine was trying to kill her.
Chapter 8: Against My Will
- Playboy photos hot
- Michael saw pictures while he was at Playboy mansion calls and says that they are great and Diana Ross also liked them
- Katherine and Jermaine was unhappy. Katherine said she wasn't her daughter anymore. Marlon and Jackie had middle of the road opinions.
- With the increased publicity Gordon arranges for her first book deal.
Chapter 9: In Name Only
- Gordon forcing her to marry him, she says the marriage was in name only as long as it lasted
Chapter 10: I Own You
- He told her when they got married she can get an annulment in 6 months. This chapter talks about she's asking for annulment and Gordon rejecting saying that he owns her.
- After the beating paparazzi gets the shot of her with bruised eyes.
- 1990 when Michael was in hospital with chest pains Gordon sent him black roses with Latoya's name.
Chapter 11: A Family Further Divided
- 1991 Her book gets published and she's performing in Paris. Gordon is having relationship with prostitutes.
- Jermaine and Farrakhan's son visits Latoya she doesn't tell them anything.
- Gordon breaks the deal with Moulin Rouge, declares her bankrupt so that they don't have to pay back to the cabaret.
- Gordon keeps the news of her grandmother dying.
Chapter 12: The Puppet Master at Work
- 1993 Gordon allows Latoya to watch TV to see the criminal investigation against Michael.
- Gordon says "They are taking him down now. I knew they would. I just didn't know when". Later on phone he says "You guys did it".
- Latoya asks to go on TV to protect Michael, Gordon says that he'll arrange it. They arrive in Israel, media waiting for her. Gordon gives he a piece of paper and says "read it".
- She says if she didn't read it she believed that Gordon's mob friends would kill Michael.
- She also mentions how Joe though them to do whatever they did with enthusiasm and energy and she didn't show any emotion because she was afraid that Gordon would hurt her.
- Gordon says to media there had been 2 kidnapping attempts on Latoya financed by Michael. She says Gordon tried to extort money from Michael & his handlers saying that he would say such thing if they didn't pay him.
- According to Latoya 1993 Bert Fields - Michael's lead attorney- brings Weitzman who brings in Dileo and Branca to work on the case and Gordon was secretly meeting them. Latoya says it was Branca's idea to settle in 1993. Latoya blames this to Branca's firm also representing Sony and that Sony was desperate to get their hands on Michael's catalog.
- She learns Michael's admittance of drug dependency and checking into rehab later. She says that Michael saw her press-conference with Elizabeth Taylor when he was in rehab.
Chapter 13: Living in Hell
- She says that she didn't know her family's attempts to reach to her and save her.
- She says Gordon damaged her reputation.
- Talks about Psychic Friends Network and Playboy video
- She starts to disobey Gordon. She does an interview without him knowing and keeps the money. She went to shopping without telling Gordon. She starts copying contact information from Gordon's Rolodex.
Chapter 14: The Beginning of the End
- 1996 Latoya is thinking about leaving Gordon. Tells about how she got a Bible, tells about how she saved the money but lost it. Gordon solicited Mike Tyson to have sex with her etc.
- She says at this time Gordon wanted her to do strip shows at a club he would call "The Jackson's Strip Club" in Florida. She refuses.
- Gordon tells her that she will do pornography (sex with 4 men for $15M), that's the straw.
- He says if she's not doing it he'll get Brandi - Jackie's daughter. Latoya says he was trying to go after her before, trying to bring her to Paris to be a model
- She asks for her passport and gets it after a fight. ( Note: I can't understand this request, she was in New York at the time)
Chapter 15: Risking It All
- She's trying to find the right time to escape
- May 3 1996 when Gordon is taking a shower she calls Randy. Randy gets Katherine and Joe in a conference call. Joe tells Randy to go to New york and bring Latoya home.
- Randy comes (with their cousin Tony) and Latoya leaves with only her bible, passport and DAT tape that had all of the music for her live show
Chapter 16: Free at Last, Free at Last
- NY to LA plane gets rerouted to Las Vegas. She talks about plane landing and making it out the airport.
- Insert memories of Jackson variety show
- Her house in Las Vegas later turns out to be in Gordon's name.
Chapter 17: Baby Steps
- Katherine tells her to come to Hayvenhurst but Latoya can't because she still believes that what Gordon told her that Katherine wants to kill her.
- Randy says they would take her to a doctor to file a report of abuse, get a restraining order and file for divorce.
- Gordon controlled all her money and assets etc. She only had $27,000
- Gordon calls her says that he loves her, he's sorry, he won't hit her again, asks her to come back and says he will give her all her money and accounts.
- She couldn't find a lawyer to take her divorce case because of Gordon's connections. Jermaine recommends her a "great attorney" he knows: Brian Oxman.
- After the divorce case starts she starts getting threatening calls from Gordon.
Chapter 18: Starting Over
- Her experiences makes her understand manipulation and abuse in Michael' life.
- She had no contact with people from outside world (except for the food delivery people) and only Gordon called her.
- Talks about how she had to do everything herself and adds their life in Gary and the changes in their life once Jackson 5 become famous.
- She left her condo a year and half later she left Gordon to attend a family get together after Jackie's wife died.
- She says she kept her distance from her family because she wanted to protect them from Gordon and she wanted to stand on her own.
- Insert positive opinions about Joe, his strength, skills and work ethic he taught them. she changed her opinion about Joe, says Michael changed his opinion later on too. Michael said he wished he had more of Joseph's strength in him.
- She says Joseph spanked them but it was the norm at the time they grew up.
- She believes if Michael was co-managed by Joseph he would still be alive.
Chapter 19: A Family Reunion and a Face-Off in Court
- Jackson family comes to support Latoya in her divorce case against Gordon. It was the first time she was seeing her family in years. Michael was doing History tour wasn't there and she hadn't yet seen him.
- Says that Gordon picked a judge he wanted , made her family leave the courtroom.
- Gordon lies about her saying that she was a sleaze (as she did Playboy), said she hid money, made her take drug and psychological tests.
- She gets divorced in 1998 by only getting the Las Vegas condo, Gordon gets everything else, and doesn't pay her the $350,000 he's ordered to pay.
Chapter 20: Rebuilding a Life
- Gordon leaves her with debt, unpaid taxes etc.
- Finds out that Gordon still arranger performances in her name and took the advances so she faced with lawsuits and more debts.
- This also caused her not to be able to book any more appearances.
- Talks about Oxman telling her to stay in bankruptcy and how she wasn't able to buy a house or a car.
Chapter 21: Learning to Trust Again
- Talks about how she no longer wanted to be in the music business but wanted to be like a manager etc. says she no longer wanted to work in America, her goal was to work in Paris and London.
- Gets another bad legal advice and her bankruptcy is extended another 7 years , so she wasn't able to get her royalties longer. She says she got back her royalties in April 2011.
- She meets Jeffre Phillips who is a friend of Jermaine. They form Ja-Tail (Just another timely adventure in life) Films in 1999.
- Jeffre worked with Michael when he did the marketing for Sony in 80s.
Chapter 22: Free the World
- 2001 World Trade Center attack
- She says Michael was supposed to attend a meeting at 9:00AM at the top of World Trade Center on September 11 but he didn't go because he was so tired. If he went he would have died in the attack.
- The family leaves with tour busses.
- Latoya writes a song "free the world", she records it, the reactions were positive.
- That's what made her return too music and start recording Starting Over.
- 2002 they try to get a record deal but hear stuff like "she has no talent", "she can't sing and dance" etc. They couldn't get a deal. They go to radios to play a song so that it would become popular and that they would get a record deal, radios refuse to play the songs.
- She says she had to put aside the album with the events about Michael surfaced.
Chapter 23: A Dirty Business
- She reconnected with Michael in 2002. (Note: That's quite some time, the latest conversation she mentioned with Michael was in 1992 - unless she omitted stuff).
- She lists through what happened in regards to Michael between the time she left Gordon (1996) and when they reconnected (2002).
- She talked about Michael with Katherine. She met Paris in 1998 (but not Michael).
- Talks about Michael's parenting. kids only watched educational TV programming, they weren't allowed to watch news accounts about Michael. Michael never told her why he limited their access to outside world. She assumes it was to give them normal life and made them know him as only their father and not superstar.
- She says she was worried if such secluded upbringing made them vulnerable.
- Michael also limited the music the kids listened. At that time Paris was only allowed to listen to "Butterflies".
- Latoya again says she had no direct contact with Michael at this time.
- Mentions Michael's troubles with Sony and catalog. Says Michael fired Branca in 1990 after Geffen told him Branca had to much control.
- 1995 Branca urges Michael to merge ATV with Sony. She says this partnership became problematic as Michael was an artist first and businessman second and he wasn't motivated for a quest for profit.
- Talks about Michael's masters and how they would not revert to Michael till 2009 and she says she doesn't know if Michael got them or Sony kept them. (Note: Estate got them back).
- Says Michael had no concept of money.
- Talks about Sony, Invincible, promotion issues. Says Sony purposely sabotaged the album so that it wouldn't sell so that he would be forced to sell his half of catalog.
- She watches Michael's press conference on TV about Sony and says that he wore a bulletproof vest at that conference. (Note: they haven't reconnected yet).
Chapter 24: Family Reunion
- 2002 Latoya is called to a family meeting, Michael was using prescription painkillers and family believed it was getting out of control.
- She says Michael wouldn't taken prescription drugs on his own and he was given it by a doctor after he fell off the stage and injured himself when touring with Jacksons. He forms a dependency but gets cleaned in 1993 by going to rehab.
- She says chronic injuries from lifetime performing and stress again turned him to painkillers and he again had dependency issues by 2002.
- Family decided to confront Michael and do an intervention. She says she hadn't seen Michael for a decade and this intervention would be the first time she would see him.
- Family goes to Neverland, security doesn't let them in, they jump the gate. Tito enters into the house through an open window and opens the doors for the rest.
- Michael sees them and acts like he didn't know that they were at the house. Latoya says she doesn't know if it was a simple miscommunication or someone wanted to keep them out.
- Michael send Prince and Paris with the nanny and then goes into Blanket's room (who was 3 months at the time) to attend to him. They have a meeting in Blanket's room.
- Michael refuses to see the doctors ( a physician and psychiatrist) and says there was nothing wrong with him. Latoya says he was fine, alert and relaxed, looked good physically and happy with his kids. After several hours he convinces them that he was good. Family plans to take turns staying with Michael at Neverland for next few weeks but they weren't able to follow their plan. She says it took Michael several years before he got the help he needed.
- In this meeting Michael also talks about the people in business. He reportedly says " Certain people in this business are no good. They take things from you, they rob you. don't ever trust them". "LaToya you can't trust them, they are no good, they don't really care about us" " They just want to get everything they can out of you and milk you and use you and toss you away at the ened of the day".
- Next time she saws Michael is news report about Berlin Balcony incident.
- Talks about how fans called "Let's see the new one" and Michael wanted to please them and he had a good grip.
Chapter 25: The Quiet Before the Storm
- 2003 Latoya does Larry King Live show.
- She receives quite an attention due to the show. She forms Ja-Tail Records and signs a distribution deal.
- 2003 Family day with Hawaiian theme and everyone dressed accordingly (except Michael and his kids). This is the first time since intervention in Neverland she saw Michael.
- April 2003 she runs into Michael shopping at Beverly Hills, she goes in to talk to Michael. They leave all together with Michael's children wearing Spiderman masks. She says the children understood the need for the masks and loved them, it was like playing dress-up everyday.
- Michael says he can't go and have dinner with them as he was going to studio, drops them by their car, Layoya gives Paris a pink rabbit as a present.
- June 2003 she would be presenting an award at BET awards. Producers ask her help to get Michael to give an award to James Brown. Then they get him on their own as apparently Michael didn't know Latoya was a presenter until she went into his dressing room.
- Backstage Michael getting ready. Michael called perfume "smell", they were together for 30 minutes, they took a picture together. Michael goes on stage. They spend another 30 minutes in the dressing room with James Brown, his wife etc.
- Michael takes Latoya into a closet and tells her that he misses her, he loves her and that he's glad that he got to see her.
Chapter 26: The Conspiracy is Revealed
- 2003 Joseph calls her to say that Neverland is being raided.
- No one in the family knew where Michael was. They later find out he was in Las Vegas and they went to his hotel.
- They find Michael all dressed up for video shot but visibly upset in a wrecked suite. Paris tells Katherine that Michael broke the lamp, threw the food and turned over the statue. Apparently when Michael got the call from Neverland security about the raid, he got very angry.
- Michael says to Latoya "I didn't do anything. I promise you. I'm being framed. All of this is a setup. you gotta believe me".
- Michael also mentions that he is even afraid to walk around his own yard because he was afraid that he would be killed. He says he knows who's behind the framing of him. Latoya asks who, Michel says " they want my catalog, they want my publishing, they'll do whatever it takes to get it. they are going to kill me. I hate my life. I don't even want the catalog anymore"
Chapter 27: Facing Down Allegations as a Family
- Little funny story about how Paris will wave to paparazzi to be friendly.
- Mirage asks Michael leave the hotel due to press disturbing other guests at the hotel.
- Michael has reservations about surrendering to the police.
- She released her single Just Wanna Dance under her nickname Toy tops the charts at 19.
- Michael's trial starts and she again thinks its not appropriate time to release the album.
Chapter 28: The Final Days of Neverland
- Michael mentions Latoya "when this trial is over. I'm never ever coming back to Neverland again. they invaded my privacy. They ruined my entire life. I hate this place. I can't stand it. I never want to see it again. Never. I'll never come back here".
- Says Michael was adamant when he made a decision.
- Describes Neverland, animals, trains. movie theater, children coming to visit. Dreamworks stealing Neverland logo.
- Says after the raid Michael stayed at one of the bungalows. Family stayed with him at Neverland during prelim and trial.
- Mentions "field trips" of Michael's kids around the property to the "beach" (a pool of water with white sand around it) and to library.
Chapter 29: The Trial of a Lifetime
- 2004 start of preliminary this is the first time Latoya had the chance to sit down and talk with Michael one on one for the first time in more than a decade.
- Michael says she doesn't have to say anything, he knows her heart and that he knew Gordon made her do those things. She says Michael had forgiven her long ago and didn't want to discuss it further.
- She says that she later realized that Michael also had manipulators and understood what she went through very well and that made him forgive her so easily.
- Says that Michael hid his fears from his children keeping upbeat and smiling around them.
- Jumping on the roof of SUV to please fans , being misunderstood.
- August 2004 family get together for Michael's birthday. First time Latoya saw Michael since pretrial in January. Michael calls Joe to sit next to him, Latoya says Joe was a special force of power for Michael and Michael felt Joe protected him.
- Again Latoya holds her album.
- January 2005 trial starts. Family returns to Neverland. She says dressing all white was her idea.
- Mentions Michael had made peace with Joe.
- Says Michael was in despair, he didn't want to eat or take care of himself. They pleaded with him to at least take vitamins. She says most of the time Michael stayed in his bungalow alone.
- Prince of Bahrain during trial says to Michael he can always stay there to rest and get away from everything.
- Gordon dies from cancer on 2005.
- Verdict day. Michael nervous, says that he's leaving US and never coming back.
- says Michael have been wearing bulletproof vest since 2001 (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before trial Michael reportedly said "If I get off, I'm going to be assassinated".
- says that Michael was a zombie after he heard the verdict, drained, distant. She says that the experience marked him and he believe that he would be assassinated that day.
- She says that the trial had made grave damage to him, a crack formed in his spirit, she says he lost his will to fight, and he was like he was lost.
- Michael leaves US as soon as he gets his passport back from court and lives like a vagabond for 1.5 years.
- Mention of Fox news, again Michael's catalog.
- Latoya says that during the time Michael was gone, he distanced himself from everyone in the family and no one spoke to him.
- says Michael didn't want to perform anymore, afraid that he would be assassinated on stage and wanted to produce and direct movies with Peter Jackson.
Chapter 30: A New Lease on Life
- Latoya says that whenever she saw footage of Michael on TV after the trial she tried to examine it to understand his health, mental stage, emotional well-being etc.
- She also says that she started to investigate the conspiracy Michael told her in Mirage (the day Neverland raided).
- She throws herself back to her career. reworking on her album, Armed and Famous show (most of the chapter is about that), Celebrity Big Brother
- She says that the skills she learned at that show as she looked for clues as to who killed Michael.
Chapter 31: The Final Days
- Mid 2006. Michael fires most of his staff including at Neverland and closes down the main house.
- Grace was acting his manager and this worried Latoya as the wrong person can have the power to destroy him in such vulnerable state.
- December 2006 James Brown dies, Michael comes to US.
- Latoya wasn't united with Michael but heard about him through Katherine.
- Jermaine introduced Michael to Tohme who later revealed to have a troubled past.
- says Tohme was like Gordon , isolated and controlled Michael. Says Tohme kept family away from Michael.
- enter Leonard Rowe. January 2009 a concert promoter offers $15M for one show (Allgood concert) flies to LA to talk to Michael.
- Latoya repeats Leonard Rowe's book Tohme doesn't meet with him for a while. Tohme says Michael cannot do it because he was doing negotiations for a $300M deal (AEG TII deal).
- says AEG was paying Tohme $100,000 monthly salary and he was therefore biased.
- claims Phillips got Michael to rehire Dileo.
- in a moment of clarity in March 2009, Michael asks Leonard Rowe to take over as his business manager.
- Reportedly Michael said he didn't know what he signed because their attorney drew up the contract, he agreed to 10 shows and not 50 shows.
- April 2009 , Michael meets with Leonard Rowe who brought Joe with him. Latoya says that Joe hadn't seen Michael for 3 years. Payment in dollars versus pounds and scalping of tickets is discussed.
- April 2009 Julien's Auctions of Michael's items. Michael didn't know it, Katherine told him about it. Michael says everything was being put in storage, Tohme says it was storage agreement.
- Mentions the Michael's confiding in June Gatlin (she heard it at Today show)
- Mid May meeting with Phillips. Katherine, Joe, Leonard Rowe and Michael present. Joe and Leonard stood up to Randy Phillips. Joe gets up starts shouting I will not let you steal from my son. Michael began laughing. She says it was because Michael was happy his father was there to protect him from vultures.
- She says Leonard told her that Michael was at times animated at the meeting but also seemed like he didn't care about details, he wasn't acting perfectionist and Leonard felt like Michael knew for one reason or another he would never perform those concerts.
- Leonard pushed out, replaced by Dileo.
- Leonard couldn't intervene about Michael's health and and in regards to his painkiller dependency.
- Latoya heard all these through Joe.
- Latoya spent time with Michael for the first time in May 14, 2009 since his 2005 trial. that's also the last time she sees him.
- Latoya says he was excruciatingly thing.
- She asks over and over if he was fine, Michael says he was fine and the rehearsals were going good.
Chapter 32: The Worst Day of My Life
- Joe calls her, tells her to get to Michael's house saying that a fan told him he was sick.
- She calls Jeffre , he says that Michael is doing it to get out of the shows. "Michael is known to have fake illness and injury.. "
- Joe calls again and says there's an ambulance, tells her to go to hospital instead.
- Latoya calls Trent , Katherine's assistant, they are on their way to the hospital. Katherine tells her Michael is dead.
- She arrives hospital, a nurse tells her Michael isn't dead.
- She goes to the room where Katherine is with Prince, Paris and Blanket on her lap. The kids are screaming and crying. Dileo is in the room. Trent tells her Michael is gone and Katherine again tells her that Michael is dead.
Chapter 33: Trying to Make Sense of the Tragedy
- She says she immediately thought "who killed Michael?" and not "how did he die?". in the last 3 chapters Latoya constantly goes back to 2003 when Michael said he would be murdered for his catalog.
- Children want to go see Michael.
- Paris screams Murray is the best multiple times and says she doesn't know what happened. She says she wants to die and be with her daddy.
- Paris says Michael was always cold, freezing. He would sit by the fireplace and fall asleep there. Paris says Michael always cried and they (the kids) watched to make sure everything was fine. Paris says Michael was freezing and needed a doctor and then turned the lights and they were in the dark. Latoya asks they turned the lights out? Paris says yes and they cut the phones off.
- Paris says Michael told her to be strong and said to her she would have to take care of Prince and Blanket if something happens to him. He told her that she would have to be the mother.
- Latoya asks when Michael said this. Paris says last night before Michael went to rehearsal She was arguing with Prince and Michael said her to stop fighting with her brother and "I'm not always going to be here and you are going to have to be the lady and watch over them".
- The children wants to see Michael, 2 nurses take them to the room Michael was says it would be therapeutic for them.
- She says Michael was skinny (skin and bones) but looked peaceful as if he was sleeping.
- Kids talked to their dad, left the room calm. Saying good-bye helped them.
- Latoya goes to find Dr. Murray. She couldn't learn anything from him. He gave her excuses.
- Kathy Hilton comes to the hospital with her sister. Latoya takes them to see Michael. Kathy Hilton tells her to collect everything she see that Michael written down.
Chapter 34: The Investigation Intensifies
- Michael Amir calls Latoya to say that Tohme fired all security and asks her to come to the house. Michael Amir vowed to not leave the house until someone from the family came.
- Police had been in the house all day. Jacksons wasn't allowed inside the house until detectives said it was okay.
- 11:30 Latoya, Jeffre, Randy and Ron Boyd (family friend police officer) arrive to Carolwood.
- 12:00 Katherine and Trent came. Later Janet came.
- Michael Amir lets them in.
- Latoya says the house was hot, asks Michael Amir he says Michael kept the heat on because he was freezing. Latoya brain thinking: is it because Michael was freezing or is it to give a different time of death?
- Michael Amir tells them what happened. Leads them into Murray's room (the room Michael died in). Michael Amir says he didn't saw anything suspicious last night.
- Latoya searches the room with her eyes as she's trained as a police officer. Outside the door what looked like Michael's last meal on top of a dresser (soup and crumbs from a sandwich), pajama top on the floor(paramedics cut it off when trying to save Michael, IV stand on the foot of bed, 3 oxygen tanks in the corner.
- She asks if there was cameras in the room. There wasn't. Remembers back to 2003 Mirage and Michael saying he would be killed for his catalog.
- Michael Amir then shows them Michael's actual bedroom. Room was a wreck, torn to pieces, clothes on the floor, dressers turned over etc. Latoya asks if it was always like this. Michael Amir says he doesn't know because Michael didn't allow anyone in that room. Latoya brain thinking : this is too messy to be police doing, who did this what they were looking for? suspects people were in there for cash and jewelry Michael kept.
- Remembers what Kathy Hilton said. Says that Michael was a compulsive note taker. so she finds post it notes in Michael's actual bedroom.
.
-
Thank you for your input @curls.
Oh, and I know we have something in common...we love Michael Jackson! And I love you! bearhug michael-jackson/
And thank you for your response, alsmom! Hugs back! bearhug
-
My turn:
Let's "imagine" illuminati or the killers are so powerful that they can do whatever they want.
My murder theory could go like this:
they gave MJ warnings in the past - the Pepsi Accident, the broken stage in Germany (I don't remember where it was), the false accusations, the lack of promotion of Invincible.
Motif?
The catalogue, the message he conveyed to the world (love, peace, charity), the racial motif
How they did it:
They forced him to go on tour to make money off of him. They threatened him that they'll kill his kids. (That's the main point of my theory). He showed the kids to the world - so as to make it harder for them to kill them in secrecy. They forced him to do even more concerts. He didn't want to because he knew he was too weak. He said: if you want to kill my kids - kill me instead, but let them live well after my death. Take the catalogue, take my music, but let them live...
The family: the family is threatened, too. They know who did it, they know who they are - but cannot go to the police because they are threatened. That's why they say it's all gonna come out one day - because they believe it will. After many many years... They record songs, they write books to keep his legacy no matter what.
The photos of kids that appear in press are made by the killers to warn the family: "we know where his kids are, we observe them, we may kill them at anytime when you- the family will make a false move".
Is it possible? In my opinion - yes.
How was it, TS? was it ok?
lolol/
-
There is not one bone in my body that believes that the Jacksons were involved with MJ’s so-called what? What his death, murder, suicide? They are a very close family and they are all in it together. They are proud to be who they are, and in the fact that they have come so far from 2300 Jackson Street. And just why shouldn’t they be? Without Papa Joe - we wouldn't be here either. He's turned it all over to Michael as he is AWAKENED.
“The Jacksons Are Coming” and have arrived. And they are “We’re Almost There.” I posted on another board that I thought that MJ will come back with his brothers in Las Vegas. He may appear with them via hologram – or he may BAM with them, but they will be involved. They have always had his BACK & FRONT. He said out of his own mouth that his children, family and sisters and brothers are his best friends. And he is close to his extended family also. They are “Rocking Robin” write/right now as we speak. And to think that within the social media, folks are tweet – tweet-ing.
Tito made mention in the Jackson Family Dynasty series at one point after MJ’s supposedly passed, that it would take all of them (J5) to get their album done. Jermaine mentions a recurring dream he was having that put me in mind of the Bobby Ewing is Alive Story that they showed upon the new season the TV show – Dallas – as in the previous season and last show – he was killed. That show and This Is It are a part of the hoax. Maybe they’ll all wake up and realize it was a dream. Tito also mentioned until it takes all five of them that –“It’s all a dream.”
Besides numerous other clues to include MJ’s numerology (that I don’t think the so-called Illuminati is not smart enough to put all of this in place as they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer – and as MJ has them beat by a mile – as he has God’s Love and Protection – and Blessings and Gifts that no other human being was bestowed), below are some of the places and times where I’m pretty sure that I saw or heard MJ:
1. In backseat of car with Randy and Marlon on 6-27-09 (Tinted windows)
2. Hat Man at Memorial (I don’t think the female was MJ)
3. VHIs with Janet - 2010
4. BET Awards as a dancer - 2010
5. Dave-Dave on Larry King - 2009
6. Hat Man at Fake Funeral
7. Mr. Magoo in Audience Clapping like crazy for Prince & Paris (MJ is THE MASTER OF DISQUISE – by this point in time)
8. Tin/Metal/Robot Man in LA (He stood like MJ)
9. MJ at Planet Hollywood with Jermaine, his children and other family members
10. Possible hologram with Latoya in Russia
11. Old Man dancing in Behind the Mask
I think MJ sang one version of Janet’s song “Nothing” with her.
I think he was with O-bee, Jae-R and Chris Tucker when doing the song – A Toast.
I think he was with O-bee and Jae-R when doing the song Under Pressure.
I think that he was in the studio with O-bee and sang his parts live in – Wanna Be Starting Something. Those are MJ’s words he raps – as MJ is the one that wants his TEAM/FAMILY to “Step together and give them all we owe.”
I also think the words to the song O-bee and Gen did were MJ’s words – All Around the World.
I think the words that = GAME OVER were written by MJ on the wall that B. Howard showcased as a photo on his website (No one else needs a Victorious Entertainment Revenge – Payback like MJ) (Plus Jae-R raps about an office that will let success in and he mentioned the word Victory)
I think MJ helped B. Howard with his CD – Genesis, as he admitted that MJ “was hands on.”
I think MJ helped his nephew Austin with both of his CDs.
I think MJ spoke his part live in Jackie’s song – “We Know What’s Going On.”
I think MJ is helping his nephew Taj with the Code Z series – hence why it’s not ready yet. It will be ready in time for the circus thingy surrounding MJ.
I know that MJ put together his own Memorial as it was done by his standards alone – and he added the piece with his teaching Omer to dance as a young lad. (No one else would have thought to add it)
I think MJ helped Evan Ross with the first song on his new CD scheduled to come out and is still helping him. Evan admitted that MJ was the one guiding his career in Music – and that his Mom was hands on and often joined him in the studio) He is on video speaking of MJ in the present tense, and he said that MJ “is the most (then he caught himself and continues) one of the most important people in his life.
I think the will is fake – and I sure that it wasn’t entered into in 2002
I think it’s evident that when Diana Ross sent in a written statement for the Memorial proved to me that she wanted to state that “Michael was (is) a personal love of mine – and I thank his parents for sharing him with the world and with me.” (She should have just said – sharing him with the world) (Finally she didn’t feel guilty anymore because MJ’s parents accepted their commitment in 2006 or 2007) (She finally claimed her baby)
I knew she didn’t attend the Memorial and funeral, because she may not have approved of his plan. After all, in the credits of her video for her I Love You CD – the words – MAN – HAT – TAN show up after most were getting ready to click out of the video. EMI was not listed at the very end so why was Manhattan Records? It's a little reminiscent of the feature shown after the credits for MJ’s movie This Is It (Which was the title of Diana’s last official tour).
Why didn’t Oprah ask Diana any questions about MJ? Especially since she was next in line to be the children’s guardian if something (God forbid) happens to Mother Kate.
Diana is a great actress, but she is not that great. There was no way she would have been able to fake it and speak of MJ as if he was dead – as she knows that he is very much alive. No way could she have carried it off. In her song I Love You – she says – “Sometimes we disagree, but it doesn’t really matter.” (They may have disagreed about this hoax)
The group that covered “I Wanna Be Where You Are” (RIP to the young man that recently passed) said on TMZ live “it’s a movie. So did a bystander say "it's a movie" upon running into Doctor Murray as he was walking down the street one day when only TMZ had that film of Murray.
Jermaine stating that MJ was guided by his mother and that Michael speaks to his mother.
MJ mentions Doc Murray in the Moonwalker Smooth Criminal video.
MJ was listed in the IMDB as the Director of “The Conrad Murray Documentary.”
GAME OVER TS, because it’s the Genesis Adventure from a Master of Excellence and it’s - One Victorious Entertainment Revenge (It’s a Victory – MJ says so in the Jacksons’ movie + the brothers had a Victory tour).
They, the Jacksons (to include MJ – because over and beyond it all – he is a Jackson and he is proud of that fact and his name) He is proud of his ancestors on both sides and he is proud to be an African King. (He is so humble that many people don’t know that he is an African King of a mineral rich and gold mining Kingdom)
Michael Jackson had so much to live for – and basically, he is documenting all things that have happened in his life. He still has room for several books, two blockbuster movies (with one being the Greatest Love Story Never Told), and The Greatest Show on Earth Thriller (TII) style.
Ultimately his family is very much in on the hoax. The entire lot of them knows what he is pulling and some are directly involved. No one gives a funeral almost three months after “death”, and that goes even for the King of Pop.
MJ said out of his own mouth that he will never sell his catalogs. Sony is not an enemy of MJ’s. Are you kidding me? MJ most likely owns more than %50 of Sony ATV – PERIOD! He had a problem with Motolla only. He also vowed not to give up that part of his fortune. He is involved with all aspects of his BUSINESS dealings with Sony; hence why he sold them the rights to This Is It. He owned it outright – and Sony had to pay him – so in essence – he got paid twice. He almost went to Universal (he probably didn’t want to), so he negotiated a sweet deal with them that only he could get done. He also owns his Music Catalog outright now.
MJ is the HEAD of his family. I think he is AWAKENED and they all know it. I think the four years to get it right has nothing to do with anything but for us Human Beings to STUDY PEACE and become Aware and Alert to the fact that later this year there will be disclosure and that “we are not alone” in this Universe. People need to Awaken in order to gain full consciousness – so they can catch that ride on the Mothership that will usher in a new Golden Age on earth.
The above is part of what Donte is trying to convey in his messages. His role is to more or less show give enlightening messages and pictures of ETs and Humans holding hands as one, etc. It all ties in together as a new day is upon us – and people all over the world have awakened and are wakening to the new energies. The energies around us are getting stronger in their intensity. Things are happening that most of the world is unaware of. There needs to be an awakening in them so that they can ride the 9th Wave. There is no question in my mind that Michael has indeed shared all of this with his family, children and loved ones. They are awakened to the concept of awakening. His niece Brittney named her first son Phoenix last summer.
I would bet my life on the above as there are so many glorious thoughts and feelings having to do with knowing that Human Beings are finally going to Progress to a New Earth and Level of Consciousness. God gets all of the Praise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RZMRSRCF0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RZMRSRCF0I)
-
And Yes, TS, according to my theory - you are "pure evil". :mrgreen: You are controlling the internet and checking how far we can go in investigating the truth, are we smart enough to figure out who killed Michael.
That's why Jermaine said that this increasing hoax talk helps noone...
:roll:
-
Just out of curiosity where is this Jack Gordon that LaToya speaks of so openly in her book? Seems to me she would be a little concerned for her own safety if she is putting him on front street like that. Wow. I’m stunned. confused/
-
@paula-c
Thanks so much for that. That sure was alot of typing, bless your heart. There's many interesting stuff in there! Things that make you go hmmmmm.....
@hesouttamylife Apparently he died in 2005 from cancer.
-
Thanks. I was beginning to fear for her safety.
-
Bec, do you believe in the Mafia, some purpose of the Bible as literature, the Morovingians, Freemasons, the Templars, CIA involvement in 911? There’s so many specific entities talked about, that relate to big organizations, secrets, involvements at some point in major government, religions, and major events. At some point you must believe in this but stop at that. We ordinary people can’t possibly know the full scoop, and have to grasp at straws of knowledge.
Some believe the Illuminati was a group name started in Bavaria but long since disbanded, and who knows. TPTB is also a good name, but the thing is we need to call the major opponents or the protagonists in the story something. Perhaps TS is using the term Illuminati because it was what many were using and he is just sticking with that. Like I've said in other posts a while back, maybe in the end we'll find out the good ones are really evil and the evil ones are really good, or the etch-a-stetch will be shaken and everyone gets to start over picking roles and sides. afraid/ God's chess game!! :D
I do believe in the Mafia, if Michael has gone against Mottola , it could be also the Maffia after him. Mafia are very vendictful they will not attack you right away they will wait until things die down and then.. Bang you are dead. One thing the Mafia uses guns, shotguns. They will not use propofol. So Mafia is out of the picture. Don't ask me how I know .. I know.. just leave it at that.
-
Bec, do you believe in the Mafia, some purpose of the Bible as literature, the Morovingians, Freemasons, the Templars, CIA involvement in 911? There’s so many specific entities talked about, that relate to big organizations, secrets, involvements at some point in major government, religions, and major events. At some point you must believe in this but stop at that. We ordinary people can’t possibly know the full scoop, and have to grasp at straws of knowledge.
Some believe the Illuminati was a group name started in Bavaria but long since disbanded, and who knows. TPTB is also a good name, but the thing is we need to call the major opponents or the protagonists in the story something. Perhaps TS is using the term Illuminati because it was what many were using and he is just sticking with that. Like I've said in other posts a while back, maybe in the end we'll find out the good ones are really evil and the evil ones are really good, or the etch-a-stetch will be shaken and everyone gets to start over picking roles and sides. afraid/ God's chess game!! :D
I do believe in the Mafia, if Michael has gone against Mottola , it could be also the Maffia after him. Mafia are very vendictful they will not attack you right away they will wait until things die down and then.. Bang you are dead. One thing the Mafia uses guns, shotguns. They will not use propofol. So Mafia is out of the picture. Don't ask me how I know .. I know.. just leave it at that.
A mafia uses all the weapons they have. They could not use a gun, had to be something without suspicions. Take advantage of a victim of addiction seems perfect.
But look what TS does. We believers are here discussing the murder of Michael, poor little thing! argue/
This is so cruel and macabre.
TS, we can change the level, this one is very depressing. :oops:
Where are you taking us? confused/
-
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:6kp4vm01] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:6kp4vm01] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.
Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius.
Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:6kp4vm01]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:6kp4vm01] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.
We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander.
And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:6kp4vm01]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:6kp4vm01] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.
But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
MJonmind, I know that you do not believe what you wrote and I'm replying to your post like you believe what you wrote, ok? I don't want you to get me wrong. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything.
Why would illuminati bother to plan such a long hoax and ask Michael to live in an island? They would kill him and that would be it. They killed JFK and we all know how they did it. They simply shot the man. They wouldn't bother to do such a long term plan, give out clues etc.
Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius.
Wow! This was so harsh to Michael if you ask me. Are we sure we KNOW the man for real? This theory is definitely underestimating Michael and his genius. According to this, Michael did nothing, just made the songs and the rest was done by others and Michael was that gulliable not to ask or see ANYTHING they're trying to do? He didn't notice 2040 on the space capsule? For real? The man is a PERFECTIONIST and he is doing and controlling everything himself. I think we saw him enough when he was choosing his crew and directing them all. Remember the guy who was behind the camera in TII? He was standing in front of Kenny behind the camera? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> He comes before the director because the man is the director himself.
Remember the speeches he made about the conspiracy against him. Do you think that someone else wrote it and gave it to Michael to read? The man is a genius. It is so obvious with the music he makes, the lyrics he writes, the speeches he makes. He gave out his message with his song lyrics. Noone forced him to write those lyrics and I think they are clear enough to let us know about what's going on. So to me, it is not so hard to see him planning this hoax for a long time. And this huge plan smells so Michael to me. That was the reason why I wrote THIS IS SO MICHAEL. The clues he has been giving to us could only be known by Michael himself. illuminati wouldn't know all these details and wouldn't bother to give out clues.
MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely.
I don't believe the family would sell Michael to illuminati.
I'm actually trying to understand why illuminati would bother to do such a detailed plan to get MJ down? They would simply murder him if you ask me. I get the theory you wrote BUT it makes Michael a puppet which is NOT plausible to me. He is the puppet master with his genius plan. And he is pulling out the strings.
-
alsmom380 wrote:
@paula-c
Thanks so much for that. That sure was alot of typing, bless your heart. There's many interesting stuff in there! Things that make you go hmmmmm.....
@hesouttamylife Apparently he died in 2005 from cancer
no, I not to write all that, to copy and to beat, if I to make it safe am a madness nobody to understand nothing :lol:
-
Thanks PureLove and peacock7 for your responses! I needed some other's perspectives on that.
Peacock7
I would bet my life on the above as there are so many glorious thoughts and feelings having to do with knowing that Human Beings are finally going to Progress to a New Earth and Level of Consciousness. God gets all of the Praise.
I enjoyed your post! I also believe something good for all mankind is going to happen! penguin/ bearhug
Although there may still be some major calamities still in store for people on earth as history unfolds and as the Creator has planned. :( Daniel 12:1.
-
QuirkyDiana wrote:
[highlight=#ff0000:34coeb8v]'The Jackson family has stated they believe Murray was an accomplice in an evil cabal, possibly connected to Freemasons and the Illuminati[/highlight:34coeb8v]cult, and plot against Michael to drug, control and murder him for monetary gain'
http://peoplemagazinedaily.com/?p=4714 (http://peoplemagazinedaily.com/?p=4714)
last year it was published but the news is not on that link
-
paula-c wrote:
QuirkyDiana wrote:
'The Jackson family has stated they believe Murray was an accomplice in an evil cabal, possibly connected to Freemasons and the Illuminaticult, and plot against Michael to drug, control and murder him for monetary gain'
http://peoplemagazinedaily.com/?p=4714 (http://peoplemagazinedaily.com/?p=4714)
last year it was published but the news is not on that link
I think it is, I found a blog ,.... and go to sleep:
Joe Jackson, LaToya: Freemason’s conspiracy to murder Michael
(http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/joe-jackson-larry-king-feb-2010-murder-charge-murray.jpg?w=497&h=312)
http://peoplemagazinedaily.com/?p=4626 (http://peoplemagazinedaily.com/?p=4626)
Michael Jackson’s former personal physician Conrad Murray turned himself in at a branch courthouse near Los Angeles International Airport Monday, pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter of Jackson and was released from jail after posting $75,000 bail.
Michael’s father Joe Jackson and mother Katherine appeared in court along with siblings LaToya, Jermaine, Tito, Jackie and Randy.
Joe Jackson and his attorney Brian Oxman spoke to Larry King on “Larry King Live” later that day declaring Murray should be charged with the more severe charge of Murder II, and Murray was apart of a conspiratorial plot to kill the late musician.
“To me, he’s just a fall guy. There’s other people, I think, involved with this whole thing. But I think that [once] he’s interrogated – he would come clean and tell everything he knows,” Joe Jackson told King Monday.
“I was looking for justice, and justice, to me, would be the murder charge.”
“Michael said to himself that he would be killed, and he told his mother that. ‘Cause he’s afraid that ah, he was afraid, to even do all of these shows, because he was afraid that he wouldn’t get a chance to finish all of the show because he couldn’t,” Joe Jackson said referring to the 50-date residency at London’s O2.
“He couldn’t do all those shows back-to-back. Even his kids say that he had told them that he would be murdered.”
Joe blamed “a whole slew of” people along with Murray for Michael’s death including Frank DiLeo and Dr. Tohme Tohme.
LaToya Jackson also issued a statement after the hearing Monday stating that other people were involved in Michael’s death.
“Michael was murdered and although he died at the hands of Dr. Conrad Murray, I believe Dr. Murray was apart of a much larger plan. There are other individuals involved and I will not rest and I will continue to fight until all of the proper individuals are brought forth and justice is served,” LaToya wrote.
Jermaine Jackson told CNN Monday the involuntary manslaughter charge is “not enough.”
A complaint filed by prosecutors claims that Murray “did unlawfully, and without malice, kill Michael Joseph Jackson” by acting “without due caution and circumspection required” when administering the prescription drugs in question.
Michael had told people, such as his mother, prior to his murder that he was afraid he would be poisoned.
Also, Michael had stated in several interviews, including with Martin Bashir, that he believed there was a conspiratorial plot against him to slander him, silence him and eventually murder him because he would not go along with the wishes of the conspirators.
Murray is a member of the Freemasons according to Fox News; a centuries-old fraternal order with members including numerous heads of state in the Western World, wealthy business people and local middle-class citizens.
In July Fox reported Murray’s friends told their news group that since joining this fraternal order three years ago “this new network galvanized his growing side business [his traveling medical concierge business]” and placed him within the network of AEG LIVE executives in-charge of Michael’s forthcoming London concerts who recommended Murray to Michael.
A theory swirling around the world is that the Masonic organization Murray belongs to brought him connections with powerful people within the recording companies and touring agencies that are also members of that organization, and they conspired together to continuously drug Michael, sway him to assign his rights to music copyrights and other income streams over to them while under the influence of drugs.
Under closer examination of numerous current music videos and performances from the musicians employed by the few big American music companies, one can find a blatant recurring theme of allusions to Freemasonry and Illuminati lending credence to the theory.
Michael’s later work, such as the video for “They Don’t Care About Us” included allusions to battling against a sinister cabal, such as the Illuminati.
The Jackson attorney Oxman told Larry King Monday, “I think they intended to take a superstar, a megastar, and have him do what they wanted him to do, and one of the ways to do it was to give him every drug he could possibly ask for.”
If Murray is convicted, he faces up to four years in prison.
———-
so he joined the masons 3 years ago..nice timing..they arent wasting words now..its them..they killed MJ..we called it last week:
http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2010/02/ ... next-week/ (http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/freemason-dr-conrad-murray-to-be-charged-with-jacksons-involuntary-manslaughter-next-week/)
401
http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2010/02/ ... r-michael/ (http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/joe-jackson-latoya-freemasons-conspiracy-to-murder-michael/)
-
What about John Branca? Good guy or bad guy? Possible sting target? We have MJ's rehire of Branca 8 days before his exit. Michael's 2003 investigation into Branca's embezzlement activities, also tieing Mattola and Branca together in an offshoe account in the Carribean , with Sony funnelling funds into for Branca. And in spite of being terminated by Michael and ordered to hand over all documentments in his possession at that time, he had in possession at the time of MJ's hoax death the forged/faked will. We have the estate now controlling all moneys and business strategies, controlling what is given to Katherine and Michael's children. If we are seriously going to entertain a murder/ cover up, then Branca needs a thorough checking as he seems to be controlling things these days. He had a lot to gain from MJ's death.
There's already great info on Branca business on the board.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=19236
-
Remember this from way back?
http://www.masonicinfo.com/conradmurray.htm
FAKE MASONRY rears its head once again!
On our page about 'fake Masonry', we've tried to explain the many, many small groups who pretend to be Freemasons. A handful of people here or there, getting together on a regular basis, and dressing as regular/recognized Masons would may seem to the non-Masonic world (and even, sadly, to a small handful of uneducated Freemasons) as being legitimate members of the three century old organization. Nothing, however, could be further from the truth. If you haven't read the page about Fake Masonry, we encourage you to do so before proceeding, taking particular notes of the comments regarding how Black Freemasonry has suffered as a result of these pretenders.
Did the Masons kill Michael Jackson?
Dr. Conrad Murray, currently under arrest for his role in the death of rock star Michael Jackson, is ostensibly a member of what is known as the "United Most Worshipful Scottish Rite Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F.& A.M." This group has been long recognized as a BOGUS organization and they've been listed as such in several places on the web including on this site for the past 6-8 years (as of 2009).
As this page is written, Dr. Murray faces very serious charges but in addition, he is also reportedly under severe pressure financially and had been for some time before the Michael Jackson death. Dr. Murray's lawyer has released the photo on the right showing Dr. Murray in Masonic regalia and claiming that he has been a Freemason for some three years. What the lawyer omitted (perhaps unknowingly) is that the organization to which Dr. Murray belongs is simply NOT recognized within the Masonic world and that he would NEVER be admitted to ANY regular/recognized Masonic lodge anywhere in the world. His organization probably has less than 100 members compared to the worldwide Masonic membership of several million. Why his lawyer would release such photos seems to indicate that an individual is seeking to use a (supposed) affiliation for personal gain - an all-too-common trait amongst those involved with FAKE MASONRY.
Still further, it should be noted that Dr. Murray is listed as the Grand Medical Director, an absurd title for a Masonic Grand Lodge. It seems - to this author at least - that both Dr. Murray and his so-called Grand Lodge were using the other for mercenary purposes.
We're not going to spend any time keeping this page up to date as the matter of Mr. Jackson's untimely death is litigated or not, as the case may be. We simply want to note that once again, a bogus/fake so-called Masonic group has created problems and confusion for regular/recognized Freemasonry.
And just for clarification
Despite the fancy sounding name, this group has NO connection whatsoever to either the Grand Lodge of Texas, The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas or the Scottish Rite bodies of Texas - or of any other place actually!
And while they don't have a web site, you could head to the Yahoo Discussion Group they formed in 2003. The summary page shows TWO members so they'd probably love some company - although the actual sign up page shows them with double that number (4). WOW! The last post was in February of 2005 - 4.5 years ago so you probably won't have any trouble keeping up.
And here's their headquarters. Awfully impressive, isn't it? Taking over the world certainly isn't very profitable, it would seem - or that 'low profile' stuff has really been taken to heart.
Why not visit?
Here's their building - which might give you some idea about.... well....
Prancing happily, the Freemasonry Watch website lures the curious in so that his ad revenue will continue to climb. He gleefully brags "Let them try to deny this!" but, of course, like all of his claims, it's on a foundation of sand. As stated above, the organization to which Dr. Murray belongs is, simply, NOT a regular/recognized Masonic lodge of any kind. To claim otherwise is to lie. Then again, that's something that Watchy is a Past Master at....
(http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/conrad1.jpg)
(http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/murray_grandlodge1.jpg)
(http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/murray_grandlodge2.jpg)
-
Branca was with Michael for years right? He was with Michael when the whole Elephant Man bones, sleeping chamber etc came about. It wasn't just Branca and Michael who put those together it was also Dileo. Those small hoaxes were done by those three men, they were signed sealed and delivered to the media and not only did the media believe it but so did the majority of people. So, it would only make sense that he (Michael) would bring Branca and Dileo back to make sure that this hoax (being the granddaddy of all hoaxes) would work and be believable.
-
Just out of curiosity where is this Jack Gordon that LaToya speaks of so openly in her book? Seems to me she would be a little concerned for her own safety if she is putting him on front street like that. Wow. I’m stunned. confused/
I heard he died of cancer in 2005.
-
http://michaeljackson.ae/truth/SONY-thru-the-years.pdf
Great info here regarding Sony through the years. We have the 13 families of the illuminati financing both sides of war, and strangely, the name sony began to appear at Tokyo airport after the flood of post war money.
Sony...Standard Oil Of New York.
The illuminati employ mafia to do their dirty work as well as owning media across the world...Mattola...Branca.
..McCartney....Beatles catalogue...ect.
Just want to state I don't for one minute believe Michael has died or was successfully offed by theses people, but I am trying view the subject from the murder theory side.
-
@bec you really don't believe in ILLuminati? I am not sure what this word refferes to exactly but the secret org. are not that much of a secret, like MJonmind said.
They are groups of common interests but they do their work in secret and that is what makes me suspicious about them.
Why can't they come in plain sight and share their goals with us?
For example the freemasons they say they believe in God, they want the best for the people and so on, but they keep a secrecy about their plans. And most of all, they have their people in key positions in all countries. And when I say key positions it means the highest positions in state and that's a known and proved fact.
Now maybe there's a battle going on between the secret organisations as well but there is no doubt in my mind they do exist.....
-
Why do you think in "This time around" he says about control and about "they" who want to use him.
Was Michael a target for the secret org. ?
Given his fame and fortune I would say he was, generally because they try to include this kind of people and then control them and use them for their own agenda.
[BBvideo 425,350:glyjdb8x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnmo7JWr5Q[/BBvideo:glyjdb8x]
So is that song about MJ trying to set himself free from their influence?
Anyway, I think they tried hard to control and use Michael but he was just too independent. Maybe it was also them who planned the false accusations as a way to make him say yes to them in exchange for it's obedience.
-
Oh...what there is a level 6, after this?..lemme guess, Level 7 will be the last level...ahaha
However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?
Isn't this above statement;
based on fantasy and imagination
It seems far fetched that, if they did plan for this to look like a hoax...they would of had to been with him from the beginning of the hoax...and had to be close enough to him (like family) to be able to pull this off, but even his family probably doesn't even know all the details.
-
TS said,
However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.
Mostly everything we think we know about the Ill. is coming from groups who fear or oppose it, and see it as an enemy. Perhaps the researchers/writers have made wrong connections, jumped to hasty conclusions, embellished to add importance or severity to their belief for instilling more fear and hatred. Much of the perspective comes from the Christian believer in the Revelations and Anti-Christ prophecy being fulfilled. Okay so why would the Illuminati want to kill MJ? Would his death help them to reach their goals? When he was alive how was he interfering with them reaching their goals? When I look through this list someone has made, I hardly think MJ should have bothered them at all, except for him speaking of peace not war, giving aid to children which would slow down depopulation. Big deal, lots of people do that. They certainly don't need his money or his catalogue, since they collectively own most of the money on the planet. I see no reason they should want him dead, but I do see reason for them to want him alive.
[fade:1dl0hv4m] The 21 Goals of the Illuminati[/fade:1dl0hv4m] and The Committee of 300
By Dr. John Coleman.
<!-- m -->http://educate-yourself.org/cn/johncole ... nati.shtml (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/johncolemangoalsofIlluminati.shtml)<!-- m -->
1. To establish a One World Government/New World Order with a unified church and monetary system under their direction. The One World Government began to set up its church in the 1920:s and 30:s, for they realized the need for a religious belief inherent in mankind must have an outlet and, therefore, set up a "church" body to channel that belief in the direction they desired. (MJ loves people of all color, race and nationality.)
2. To bring about the utter destruction of all national identity and national pride, which was a primary consideration if the concept of a One World Government was to work. (MJ always said he loved every country and wanted to live there.)
3. To engineer and bring about the destruction of religion, and more especially, the Christian Religion, with the one exception, their own creation, as mentioned above. (He doesn't attend church, and never teaches conversion or hell.)
4. To establish the ability to control of each and every person through means of mind control and what Zbignew Brzezinski called techonotronics, which would create human-like robots and a system of terror which would make Felix Dzerzinhski's Red Terror look like children at play. (He rather enjoys portraying zombies. <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> )5. To bring about the end to all industrialization and the production of nuclear generated electric power in what they call "the post-industrial zero-growth society". Excepted are the computer- and service industries. US industries that remain will be exported to countries such as Mexico where abundant slave labor is available. As we saw in 1993, this has become a fact through the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, known as NAFTA. Unemployables in the US, in the wake of industrial destruction, will either become opium-heroin and/or cocaine addicts, or become statistics in the elimination of the "excess population" process we know of today as Global 2000.
6. To encourage, and eventually legalize the use of drugs and make pornography an "art-form", which will be widely accepted and, eventually, become quite commonplace. (He doesn't specifically speak against drugs or porn.)
7. To bring about depopulation of large cities according to the trial run carried out by the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. It is interesting to note that Pol Pot's genocidal plans were drawn up in the US by one of the Club of Rome's research foundations, and overseen by Thomas Enders, a high-ranking State Department official. It is also interesting that the committee is currently seeking to reinstate the Pol Pot butchers in Cambodia. (He says he hurts terribly for months when he sees any child suffering.)
8. To suppress all scientific development except for those deemed beneficial by the Illuminati. Especially targeted is nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. Particularly hated are the fusion experiments currently being scorned and ridiculed by the Illuminati and its jackals of the press. Development of the fusion torch would blow the Illuminati's conception of "limited natural resources" right out of the window. A fusion torch, properly used, could create unlimited and as yet untapped natural resources, even from the most ordinary substances. Fusion torch uses are legion, and would benefit mankind in a manner which, as yet, is not even remotely comprehended by the public. (MJ love technology and needs technology for his hoax and his livlihood.)
9. To cause. by means of limited wars in the advanced countries, by means of starvation and diseases in the Third World countries, the death of three billion people by the year 2050, people they call "useless eaters". The Committee of 300 (Illuminati) commissioned Cyrus Vance to write a paper on this subject of how to bring about such genocide. The paper was produced under the title "Global 2000 Report" and was accepted and approved for action by former President James Earl Carter, and Edwin Muskie, then Secretary of States, for and on behalf of the US Government. Under the terms of the Global 2000 Report, the population of the US is to be reduced by 100 million by the year of 2050.
10. To weaken the moral fiber of the nation and to demoralize workers in the labor class by creating mass unemployment. As jobs dwindle due to the post industrial zero growth policies introduced by the Club of Rome, the report envisages demoralized and discouraged workers resorting to alcohol and drugs. The youth of the land will be encouraged by means of rock music and drugs to rebel against the status quo, thus undermining and eventually destroying the family unit. In this regard, the Committee commissioned Tavistock Institute to prepare a blueprint as to how this could be achieved. Tavistock directed Stanford Research to undertake the work under the direction of Professor Willis Harmon. This work later became known as the "Aquarian Conspiracy". (MJ loves rock and roll music and has always been a rebel.)
11. To keep people everywhere from deciding their own destinies by means of one created crisis after another and then "managing" such crises. This will confuse and demoralize the population to the extent where faced with too many choices, apathy on a massive scale will result. In the case of the US, an agency for Crisis Management is already in place. It is called the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), whose existence I first enclosed in 1980.
12. To introduce new cults and continue to boost those already functioning which include rock music gangsters such as the Rolling Stones (a gangster group much favored by European Black Nobility), and all of the Tavistock-created rock groups which began with the Beatles. (His kind of music. <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ --> )
13. To continue to build up the cult of Christian Fundamentalism begun by the British East India Company's servant Darby, which will be misused to strengthen the Zionist State of Israel by identifying with the Jews through the myth of "God's chosen people", and by donating very substantial amounts of money to what they mistakenly believe is a religious cause in the furtherance of Christianity. (He has said he has many Jewish friends, but also says some of them just are greedy, nothing about Israel.)
14. To press for the spread of religious cults such as the Moslem Brotherhood, Moslem Fundamentalism, the Sikhs, and to carry out mind control experiments of the Jim Jones and "Son of Sam" type. It is worth noting that the late Khomeini was a creation of British Military Intelligence Div. 6, MI6. This detailed work spelled out the step-by-step process which the US Government implemented to put Khomeini in power.
15. To export "religious liberation" ideas around the world so as to undermine all existing religions, but more especially the Christian religion. This began with the "Jesuit Liberation Theology", that brought an end to the Somoza Family rule in Nicaragua, and which today is destroying El Salvador, now 25 years into a "civil war". Costa Rica and Honduras are also embroiled in revolutionary activities, instigated by the Jesuits. One very active entity engaged in the so-called liberation theology, is the Communist-oriented Mary Knoll Mission. This accounts for the extensive media attention to the murder of four of Mary Knoll's so-called nuns in El Salvador a few years ago. The four nuns were Communist subversive agents and their activities were widely documented by the Government of El Salvador. The US press and the new media refused to give any space or coverage to the mass of documentation possessed by the Salvadorian Government, which proved what the Mary Knoll Mission nuns were doing in the country. Mary Knoll is in service in many countries, and placed a leading role in bringing Communism to Rhodesia, Moçambique, Angola and South Africa.
16. To cause a total collapse of the world's economies and engender total political chaos.
17. To take control of all foreign and domestic policies of the US. (He doesn't involve himself politically.)
18. To give the fullest support to supranational institutions such as the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Bank of International Settlements, the World Court and, as far as possible, make local institutions less effective, by gradually phasing them out or bringing them under the mantle of the UN.
19. To penetrate and subvert all governments, and work from within them to destroy the sovereign integrity of the nations represented by them.
20. To organize a world-wide terrorist apparatus and to negotiate with terrorists whenever terrorist activities take place. It will be recalled that it was Bettino Craxi, who persuaded the Italian and US Governments to negotiate with the Red Brigades kidnapers of Prime Minister Moro and General Dozier. As an aside, Dozier was placed under strict orders not to talk what happened to him. Should he ever break that silence, he will no doubt be made "a horrible example of", in the manner in which Henry Kissinger dealt with Aldo Moro, Ali Bhutto and General Zia ul Haq.
21. To take control of education in America with the intent and purpose of utterly and completely destroying it. By 1993, the full force effect of this policy is becoming apparent, and will be even more destructive as primary and secondary schools begin to teach "Outcome Based Education" (OBE). (He wasn't educated in the public schools and his own kids were tutored privately till now.)
IMO the Illuminati don't need him dead.
-
Hmm...just noticed there were 21 goals of the Illuminati. =777. suspicious//
-
Thank u paula-c for posting parts from La Toya's book. It was pretty interesting to learn some details about her relationship with Michael, the family and MJ's "final" days. These parts caught my eye:
She says Leonard told her that Michael was at times animated at the meeting but also seemed like he didn't care about details, he wasn't acting perfectionist and Leonard felt like Michael knew for one reason or another he would never perform those concerts.
Well, IMO it proves once agian that it was not in MJ's plans to do those 50concerts, he knew it from the very start, and the rehearsals were only to create an illusion that those concerts will take place in London, accordingly he has planned to hoax his death long ago, after the trial
Paris says Michael told her to be strong and said to her she would have to take care of Prince and Blanket if something happens to him. He told her that she would have to be the mother.
This is pretty sad, a very odd thing to say to a 11-year old girl. Either it's obviously a hoax and MJ was preparing the kids that they had to care for themselves for a while when he will be away from them or he has commited a suicide. I dont believe that MJ would sit back and wait how his enemies are going to kill him and warn Paris about it. Nor i believe that he was such a weak person to commit a suicide leaving his 3 kids all alone knowing that he was their entire world.
The most plausible theory is that he knew that he could not do those grueling 50 concerts but at the same time he also was aware that if he didnt agree to do them, he would be sued by AEG because they already had the contract. At the same time i believe that MJ's life was in danger cause of the catalogue and his money, so the only alternative he had was to hoax his death thus saving his and most important his kids' lives and to have a life away form those evil people.
-
Thank u paula-c for posting parts from La Toya's book. It was pretty interesting to learn some details about her relationship with Michael, the family and MJ's "final" days. These parts caught my eye:
She says Leonard told her that Michael was at times animated at the meeting but also seemed like he didn't care about details, he wasn't acting perfectionist and Leonard felt like Michael knew for one reason or another he would never perform those concerts.
Well, IMO it proves once agian that it was not in MJ's plans to do those 50concerts, he knew it from the very start, and the rehearsals were only to create an illusion that those concerts will take place in London, accordingly he has planned to hoax his death long ago, after the trial
Paris says Michael told her to be strong and said to her she would have to take care of Prince and Blanket if something happens to him. He told her that she would have to be the mother.
This is pretty sad, a very odd thing to say to a 11-year old girl. Either it's obviously a hoax and MJ was preparing the kids that they had to care for themselves for a while when he will be away from them or he has commited a suicide. I dont believe that MJ would sit back and wait how his enemies are going to kill him and warn Paris about it. Nor i believe that he was such a weak person to commit a suicide leaving his 3 kids all alone knowing that he was their entire world.
The most plausible theory is that he knew that he could not do those grueling 50 concerts but at the same time he also was aware that if he didnt agree to do them, he would be sued by AEG because they already had the contract. At the same time i believe that MJ's life was in danger cause of the catalogue and his money, so the only alternative he had was to hoax his death thus saving his and most important his kids' lives and to have a life away form those evil people.
Plausible, yes. I think the only person that can debunk anything concerning his "death" is Michael himself. I haven't 100% proof either way. All I have personally is my mind and feelings. I really feel he would NEVER commit suicide. I also think he "died" before "they" got to him. I know that's not a debunking. We'll never know for certain until we get hard, solid proof. And I feel that we will never get it unless either Mike comes back or CM is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. Don't get me wrong. I feel with everything in me that he's alive. Will he come back? Of course I don't know that. But if he doesn't, we may never know. confused/
A hoax, murder, suicide...none will be debunked unless one of the above happens. If he was murdered or he commited suicide, everything I thought I knew about Michael would've been false. I never thought of him being week enough to allow that to happen to him. I guess these are plausible, too. Oh, God help me :cry:
-
Just out of curiosity where is this Jack Gordon that LaToya speaks of so openly in her book? Seems to me she would be a little concerned for her own safety if she is putting him on front street like that. Wow. I’m stunned. confused/
Jack Gordon died in 2005 its listed in the txt posted above, you may have missed it. ;)
Blessings
typing/
-
Why do you think in "This time around" he says about control and about "they" who want to use him.
Was Michael a target for the secret org. ?
Given his fame and fortune I would say he was, generally because they try to include this kind of people and then control them and use them for their own agenda.
[BBvideo 425,350:2y5ng99b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnmo7JWr5Q[/BBvideo:2y5ng99b]
So is that song about MJ trying to set himself free from their influence?
Anyway, I think they tried hard to control and use Michael but he was just too independent. Maybe it was also them who planned the false accusations as a way to make him say yes to them in exchange for it's obedience.
Thanks for posting this video, never heard that song before :oops: Very interesting lyrics, this goes a long way back into the 1990's WOW.
Interesting. hmmm
confused/
-
Why do you think in "This time around" he says about control and about "they" who want to use him.
Was Michael a target for the secret org. ?
Given his fame and fortune I would say he was, generally because they try to include this kind of people and then control them and use them for their own agenda.
So is that song about MJ trying to set himself free from their influence?
Anyway, I think they tried hard to control and use Michael but he was just too independent. Maybe it was also them who planned the false accusations as a way to make him say yes to them in exchange for it's obedience.
I've always associated This Time Around with Tom Sneddon, among other tracks. But he may have written the song with ALL of 'em in mind. The album/albums were riddled with injustices in mind. Not just Sneddon but Evan Chandler. Pure evil! I may sound cruel but at least Evan is out of his own misery now, if you know what I mean....
-
Branca was with Michael for years right? He was with Michael when the whole Elephant Man bones, sleeping chamber etc came about. It wasn't just Branca and Michael who put those together it was also Dileo. Those small hoaxes were done by those three men, they were signed sealed and delivered to the media and not only did the media believe it but so did the majority of people. So, it would only make sense that he (Michael) would bring Branca and Dileo back to make sure that this hoax (being the granddaddy of all hoaxes) would work and be believable.
[font=fantasy:njq0u1sw]I agree with this. Michael's career was much more stable and he made much more money with this team. I think when Tohme came in and the rest and Branca and Dileo left, things began to spiral downward. JMP.
All these things you stated were attention grabbers. They worked, but also, backfired in the process. They got Michael labeled...well, you know that name. But, other famous people have been quirky and I think Michael loves the quirky. This hoax also will have a great opportunity for backfire. There will be millions who HATE what he's done, and for a lot of reasons we've all been through before. It will gain him extreme fame as the greatest entertainer..but to do that, he can't just come back and that's it. Of course it will have to be a documentary as all of Michael's life has been.
I'm just not thinking this is a murder plot discovered. Sure to us and maybe most of the world he's a demi-god, but he don't change and enforce laws as real rulers do. Sure, he changes the world in music and charity, but I think the ones the illuminati is after is ones who hinder them. As in politicians, big and small. I still believe that Michael is an entertainer and this is entertainment, I'm entertained every moment of my life awake or asleep aren't you? And in the end it will be even more so. I think it's about retaliation and teaching, but time will tell.
Murder? I think that the fbi is well aware of the illuminati and would KNOW all about this by now. But, some think they also are part of the illuminati. I feel that we are making this way too complicated. Michael entertains. He is entertaining.
IMP[/font:njq0u1sw]
-
@alsmom380 i hear ya, i pray to God to protect Michael form evil people, to give him srength and health, if he is alive and if he is dead :cry: , to punish those who are responsible for his death.I don't even wanna think that he was murdered :cry: if so, we've been going the wrong direction all this time, i guess we will never know the truth if he doesnt come back or show 100% proof to us. But you know what, i'm absolutely positive, my heart feels that MJ was able to escape, we have some very good clues, let's just hope and wait
-
IMP[/color][/size][/font]
[font=cursive:2uwkmhwj]I've been trying to force my mind to think backward. It's not easy to go against what you feel and believe and have learned and processed. But, I'm trying.
I'm placing myself in Michael's place. Say that I have a plan to do this hoax, for whatever reasons...to escape the illuminati. I tell people I'm afraid that "they' are going to kill me for my catalog". ( Now, the illuminati don't want that catalog, but I think Sony would.)
So I am so stressed, that I can't sleep. I try everything. It even effects my eating and I lose weight. I hate to tour, but I need to, for my kids, and money (is always great cuz I love to spend) and it's been a long time. But, I'll just do a few, maybe 10 because I'm really terrified of being killed and also, I'm not feeling too good with stressers and I DO hate to tour. But, I'll have to have a doctor to watch over me physically as I really am NOT feeling my best...I AM after all 50 now and have not been active like when I was young. (THAT does make a difference too, believe ME) I've passed a physical though, because I don't have anything wrong with me...I'm just getting older and am stressed because I think they're after me. I get meds so I can be less stressed and maybe sleep. YES, you would too.
Then I find out, they've committed me to 50 shows! UP goes my stress level.
I have the doctor with me nights, so I feel safe. I have security at the gates. I have surveillance going. There are others in the house with me. My kids have a dog. I even have a cell phone to call for help. I'm alright.
BUT!! This is where my thoughts think...this is not right. I can't agree with this theory, and perhaps that's TS point. If it don't fit, you can't wear it.
There were others in the home. (if you believe that Michael was really at Carolwood) The kids were there. The cook too at the time of death. Murray. Security. A dog. It don't matter if the illuminati got him on the 25th or before, he is NEVER alone. He wasn't shot out of mid-air like Kennedy. It was some secret death. But, no one could sneak in and do it with him watched over. So, what, one of them did it?? Murray?? You'd have to believe Murray wanted Michael to die...or is illuminait? Well, how obvious is THAT?? Okay, then we have to say for this to happen, Murray killed Michael (the very one the cops would pin it on, and sacrifice 4 years of his life, and the time not and stigma after the 4 years) knowing it would and could only be pinned on him. OR, he let someone in there to do it. Which, he'd again, take the fall for and lose so much of his life. (oh, geez, like Michael has from all the false charges...oops, I'm again thinking hoax)
I do want to say, IF I were to believe in a hoax that was planned by Michael to escape the illuminati, but the illuminati thwarted it by killing him, then, I'd have to believe that Sony is the illuminati, because THAT was WHO Michael thought was trying to kill him for his catalog wasn't it? That was who he was afraid of.
Either that or you'd have to believe that the illuminai would gain hold of the catalog by killing Michael.
Nope, I don't think this idea FITS.
I'll just let you who maybe to..try to prove it to me.
LOVE
[/font:2uwkmhwj]
-
[font=cursive:355mwyao] "I've been trying to force my mind to think backward. It's not easy to go against what you feel and believe and have learned and processed. But, I'm trying.
..."BUT!! This is where my thoughts think...this is not right. I can't agree with this theory, and perhaps that's TS point. If it don't fit, you can't wear it."
[/font:355mwyao]
This reminds me of Judge Judy saying, "If it doesn't sound right, it usually isn't true".
-
Warning: This is a long post.
There has been many great comments in the thread so far and some of what I might say may have already been said by other members. The difficult thing, at this point, is that no matter which theory we try to defend or debunk, none of us has concrete proof to back up what we say…all we can do is put forth what seems more plausible, based on things that have actually occurred.
Having said that, though, there are certain ‘facts’ that TS has embedded within his post that many could argue are assumptions. But for the sake of sticking with The Scenario put forth by TS (murder theory), I will take these ‘facts’ as truths. So, here is what we can say both sides agree on, and are not contesting, for the purpose of this debate:
‘Facts’ (taken directly from TS’ post):
F1 – MJ had planned a hoax
F2 – The hoax ‘timing’ was planned up to 9-9-09
F3 – The family is/was aware of the hoax
F4 – The Illuminati do exist AND they were after MJ
Furthermore, for the purpose of this debate, I will also take as ‘fact’ findings from levels 1-3 that TS summarized in the May 1st post. (I am not including level 4 because the jury is still deliberating on that one lol). These ‘facts’ are as follows:
Level findings (take directly from May 1st post):
L1 – The ambulance photo was staged in advance
L2 – At least a few people in the FBI are helping with the hoax
L3 – While not conclusive, most agree that no corpse was used
The above is the foundation that both sides are working on as the basis for both the hoax and murder theory (i.e. the ‘facts’ and ‘level findings’ are not being contested here by either side, rather we are taking them as ‘truths’). Now, then, we have The Scenario, which TS put in very general terms, without much detail (but as with everything in this hoax, the beauty lies in the details!). At this point, TS has really only stated a 2-step scenario, as follows:
Scenario for murder:
S1 – The Illuminati found out about MJ’s hoax plans
S2 – They killed MJ according to the exact timing that he had planned
Taking all the above into consideration, here are some points of debate that TS can hopefully explain (I say ‘some points’ because an entire book can be written on defending a hoax theory above a murder theory and probably vice versa…so I’m only going to bring up a few for now. I welcome any members to add on any ‘points of debate’ that TS can address).
Points of debate:
1) Although FI (MJ’s hoax plan) was in place, the majority of people knew nothing about it. Even if most thought MJ was up to something, based on things he said in interviews and especially the Sony kills music speech, I highly doubt that the majority imagined he was planning a death hoax. So very few people, probably only those that MJ trusted with F1, actually knew what he was planning and probably even fewer knew of exact timing.
Why, then, would the Illuminati have killed him according to MJ’s exact hoax timing? Was it to fool those few people that actually knew of the hoax AND the timing of things? If so, for what purpose? The only motive for that, that I can think of, would be to fool those few people into thinking that no murder had taken place, but rather MJ was carrying out the hoax he had told them about. But that doesn’t really make sense. While these people may have initially thought that MJ’s ‘death’ was part of his hoax, wouldn’t they have, sooner or later, figured out that the hoax was not taking place when absolutely no contact with MJ could be made?
2) Based on F2 (exact timing of hoax planned until 9-9-09), then MJ not only planned the exact time of death but he also planned the exact timing of the memorial and the funeral. We also know, based on F3, that the family would have been aware of MJ’s plans.
Following the 1st point of debate, the family would’ve had 3 months to realize that MJ was nowhere to be found. Sure, we can assume that part of the plan was that MJ would have absolutely no contact with anyone from June 25th to Sept 9, but considering the intricacy of the hoax and MJ’s perfectionism, I highly doubt that there would be no contact at all. Would the family have continued on with the exact hoax timing, up til 9-9-09, knowing that MJ’s hoax had been thwarted and something entirely different was going on? Why would they stick to the exact planned timing of the memorial and the funeral? While the Illuminati may have killed him according to his hoax plans, it was the family who continued with the exact hoax timing of events that followed the ‘death’. Were they being threatened by the Illuminati to carry out these plans according to MJ’s exact timing? If so, for what purpose?
3) Not only did they kill MJ according to exact hoax timing, but they also went to the trouble of L1, staging the ambulance photo.
If MJ was murdered, why the need to stage the ambulance photo in advance? Wouldn’t they have required ‘proof’ that the ‘hit’ had been carried out? If the murder theory is correct, then MJ would’ve really been in the ambulance, either dead or close to death. What better ‘proof’ than to take a pic of him in the ambulance to show that the ‘hit’ was completed? Why the need to stage the photo the ‘other day’? Was Ben, therefore, helping the Illuminati, since he was there that day and the other day?
4) Based on the 333 pages released by the FBI, it didn’t look like they were helping those people (Illuminati?) that were out to get MJ. If they were helping them, they most definitely would’ve found ‘evidence’ to ‘prove’ MJ was guilty of the molestation charges. Instead, there’s many pages which show they repeatedly reported to the prosecution that there was absolutely no evidence even hinting that MJ was guilty.
But based on L2, we know that at least a few people in the FBI were helping with the hoax. So, were they helping MJ or were they helping the Illuminati? If it's the latter, what specifically did they do to help the Illuminati pull this off?
5) In L3, most argued that there was no corpse used on June 25th, but as with everything else, there’s no concrete proof, at this point, either way.
But, if they murdered him, and there was a body…that of MJ’s…then why all the craziness of what followed (i.e. why didn’t any doctor announce his death at the hospital? Why all the discrepancies with official documents and the autopsy?)
If they murdered him and there was no corpse, why would they have taken the body and what the heck did they do with it? No corpse would mean that he was killed and his body was taken away, for whatever reason. So everyone in the house at that time would have to be in on the murder (obviously Murray, but also the ambulance guys, and at least Alberto Alvarez and any other security that stayed behind after everyone was sent home). How did they dispose of the body? Would the family, not to mention the hospital staff, not notice that there was no body? The family, among others, have stated that they saw the body, were they lying?
Even within the points of debate I’ve listed, there’s a whole host of other questions that arise with this scenario (i.e. like others suggested, why would the Illmuninati want a message of L.O.V.E. to come out of all this?). I’m hoping that TS will soon respond to our comments because without the details of his scenario, it is difficult to pinpoint what parts of his theory don’t hold up.
Regardless, whether this was murder or a hoax, several ‘key’ people (including the family), HAD to be involved to carry out the plans. Even if the same amount of people were needed for either scenario (although IMO it would take more people to cover up a murder), my biggest issue with the murder theory is that all these people knowingly helped a group of people (the Illuminati) carry out the murder of an innocent man and continue, to this day, to remain silent about it. Sure, one could argue that they are all being threatened by the Illuminati…but how many did they threaten? The family, Murray, the ambulance guys, Alvarez, the hospital staff, the LAPD, the FBI, the coroner, etc etc??? It seems much more plausible to me that the ‘key’ people who know what really happened, went along with a well-intentioned hoax rather than a cold-blooded murder.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @TS….be very careful with ‘proving’ a murder theory too well…for if you do, there would be no reason to continue reading one more word you write ;)
-
@alsmom380 i hear ya, i pray to God to protect Michael form evil people, to give him srength and health, if he is alive and if he is dead :cry: , to punish those who are responsible for his death.I don't even wanna think that he was murdered :cry: if so, we've been going the wrong direction all this time, i guess we will never know the truth if he doesnt come back or show 100% proof to us. But you know what, i'm absolutely positive, my heart feels that MJ was able to escape, we have some very good clues, let's just hope and wait
I'm getting a bit worried for myself AND Michael now because I'm starting to sound like a "wisher" instead of a beLIEver. I need to take a break and re-examine the clues. I'm beginning to think some of them was just wishful thinking. I need to snap out of it!!!! pale/
-
TS says In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with WEAK FAITH; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level!
Yes he really is DEAD just like Elisa Presley said ELVIS/jessie elvis_/ he did die that day as well in one of the redirects. The star,the icon, the millionaire. Michael has giving up his riches and materialistic items" remember in THIS IS IT he put his jacket on the ground and burned it showing how MJ felt about that item. Just recently the thriller jacket sold for 1.8 million, hmmm. Who is making that money, I am sure it is not in MJs pockets.I have faith that Michael lives. Just not with the same name he had before. Was he forced out by the Illuminatis? I remember reading if JEssie/Elvis wanted to come back THEY would not let him. Who is THEY? We have heard plenty of times this person is worth more dead than alive. Which is a horrible way for people to think of you like a object=money.But that is how these people think. So yeah I think there is no hoax MJ is dead! But his body lives on with a new identity,the master of disguise "MORPH" mj_bad/ .
-
Are there really enough hoaxers for an Agent to spend time 'messing' with our minds. Does anyone really listen to us anyway? So far, the people I have told about the hoax don't seem to care whether it is the truth or not, which I find sad but it is what it is. If Michael was murdered than what about all of the other events that point to a hoax. You can't just erase those to make a Murder theory seem plausible. Just like you can't ignore the family sayin he is dead and the supposed autopsy reports and death certificate. Why is it that every legitimate document has Michael JOE and every seemingly fake document has Michael JOSEPH? Why did Ben slip and almost say 'the other day'? Why so much talk of the children being great actors? And Prince wanting to be a director? None want to pursue singing/dancing like their father has done for 40 yrs of his life? Why is everyone wirting a damn book instead of going to authorities about MJ's killer? Why do we see no tears from them? Why are new people still coming out about 6.25.09, like Kathy Hilton? Why is Teddy Riley saying he KNOWS Mike is alive? Why is Teddy saying Michael album is all MJ? Why are family members saying it is not all MJ? Why are the Cascio's saying that Michael recorded the songs in their basement/studio? Why would they lie if they have never once shown any signs of wanting to exploit MJ for their own gain? Why is it there is still NO name on MJ's grave?!?! Why does Forest Lawn say that Michael was never buried there? Why is that Diana Ross did not make it to his funeral or memorial? Why is it that the funeral only uses Liberian Girl pictures? Why is it the memorial is filled with people who had never even met MJ? Why is the memorial exactly 7 years apart from his supposed Will (with incorrect names) on 7-7-07? Why is it that Michael was staying in a house so close to Sunset Blvd, one of the busiest streets in America? Why were there no paparazzi on 6.25 when they are always outside of his house? Why is there one picture, and it is photoshopped?
I think of myself as a pretty good judge of people and I can usually tell when someone is lying to my face. A murder theory would only be possible to me if none of the other things mentioned by me (and others) had occured.
If someone wanted MJ dead, they picked one hell of a time to do it! why not sooner, why not later after the concerts when he had more money to take? I think the TII announcement was simply a wake up call to the world to direct attention once more at a man that hadn't had an album out since 2001. Everything is planned carefully and you can see it better when you get rid of all the doubt.
-
Why is the memorial exactly 7 years apart from his supposed Will (with incorrect names) on 7-7-07?
I meant to write 7-7-09. I have 7 on the brain and got carried away ;) ;) :lol:
-
Why do you think in "This time around" he says about control and about "they" who want to use him.
Anyway, I think they tried hard to control and use Michael but he was just too independent. Maybe it was also them who planned the false accusations as a way to make him say yes to them in exchange for it's obedience.
I've always associated This Time Around with Tom Sneddon, among other tracks. But he may have written the song with ALL of 'em in mind. The album/albums were riddled with injustices in mind. Not just Sneddon but Evan Chandler. Pure evil! I may sound cruel but at least Evan is out of his own misery now, if you know what I mean....
Control and use are the key words for me.
Maybe I am paranoid but from my limited experience I think a person is good for them if it's controlable and of use, no matter the inteligence or the skills or whatever.
When MJ made TDCAU - it was intended against ILLuminati, at least in my mind is so. THEY are not even the governments, but the ones behind it all, including governments. Or he just "picked up" that song out of the air and did it because GOD told him so and he didn't realise what he was singing? I don't think so.
-
@alsmom380 dont be sad plz, may be some of the clues have already been debunked but it doesnt mean that all the clues we've had so far are just wishful things, remember about Dave Dave(though we dont have a 100% proof that it was MJ, it's obvious that it was not the real Dave Dave on LKL), remember about what MJ said to Paris a couple of days before his 'death", Jermaine's slip-up about the airport, which, judging by his smile,he did on purpose... the list goes on and on, so be strong and do not allow moments of despair like this shaken your belief and hope, we are not dellusional fans who cannot move on, we're just open-minded and wanna know the truth: what really happened to MJ on june 25 bearhug
-
Warning: This is a long post.
There has been many great comments in the thread so far and some of what I might say may have already been said by other members. The difficult thing, at this point, is that no matter which theory we try to defend or debunk, none of us has concrete proof to back up what we say…all we can do is put forth what seems more plausible, based on things that have actually occurred.
Having said that, though, there are certain ‘facts’ that TS has embedded within his post that many could argue are assumptions. But for the sake of sticking with The Scenario put forth by TS (murder theory), I will take these ‘facts’ as truths. So, here is what we can say both sides agree on, and are not contesting, for the purpose of this debate:
‘Facts’ (taken directly from TS’ post):
F1 – MJ had planned a hoax
F2 – The hoax ‘timing’ was planned up to 9-9-09
F3 – The family is/was aware of the hoax
F4 – The Illuminati do exist AND they were after MJ quote]
Although we consider that Michael have planned hoax long time ago, it is also possible that due to emergency circumstances, Michael's death hoax was realized randomly. Thus, there is no numerology involved. I have been sceptical to the timing in hoax from the beginning. Why? First, I do believe in numerology in general, but not in hoax related theory. Simply because it is not 100 % accurate. For example, MJ chose to "die" in June 25,2009, I see calculation goes 2+5+2+9=18, then "see Conrad wears t-shirt with number 18". The right numerelogy should include 6=month of June, in that case that would be 6+2+5+2+9=24=2+4=6. That's how numerology works, adding up ALL numbers, not half of them.
Second, the process of faking death to fool the world is already stressful, why make that stress worse following exact timing, dates, etc. There is also no guarantee that everybody else who involved in hoax would remember and do exactly as written in MJ's scenario of TIMING. Come on, I don't buy this. Third, if hoax was realized due to emergency circumstances, like Conrad tried to kill Michael (no matter who ordered), then numerology could not be followed. If there was no emergency situation, then still no need this numerelogy, esp. when it is accurate, i.e. not based on true numerology principles. Thus, 9-9-9 basis of calculation is also wrong to be constantly mentioned.
And especially IF Michael was killed by whomever, there is no way they whould bother with that numerology headache.
In either case, MJ outsmarted them or was outsmarted by them, there is no numerology. Tere is NO point to keep numerology in the plan. Simple as that. Somebody can explain the POINT, MEANING, REASON, GOAL of that in hoax? Just to demonstrate mastermind? Nonsense. Esp. If Michael does not plan to come back, even worse, no point again. To give us a clue that it is a hoax? We have more than enough facts to cosider hoax without numerology .
Another fact I want to point out. As many memebers mentiioned, Sony most probably is a member of masons and have a motive to kill MJ. The most reasonable motive to kill MJ I can think of is $$$$$$$$. Sony has money interest. Did they get catalog or their 50% killing MJ? NO, THEY DID NOT. The only way Sony can get his interest along with catalogs back is to BUYBACK it for very large $$$. So, the motive is weak to kill Michael and be at risk of conviction. What about Jacksons? If they believe MJ was killed, so far they are OK with involuntary manslaughter charges ONLY, NOT MURDER as they claim, which is very weird.
"Murder is a form of criminal homicide that has a precise legal meaning. Murder is usually defined as the "unlawful killing of another with malice aforethought (or "an abandoned and malignant heart"). Malice aforethought refers to the perpetrator's intention of doing harm.
Involuntary manslaughter is manslaughter resulting from a failure to perform a legal duty expressly required to safeguard human life, from the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony.
The difference between murder and manslaughter is in the element of intent. (We know that there are facts that it might be done intentionally if there were no hoax theory: not calling 911 right away, talking over the phone when MJ was dying at that time,not doing proper CPR, giving mix of medications that in very risky, giving Propofol at home without proper monitoring, hiding bottles, not evaluating patience health history...).
Murder and manslaughter also differ in the sentences imposed for each crime. (Minslaughter has max. 4 years. Are Jacksons OK with that? Cause I am not OK. I want minimum life sentence for CM IF he MURDERED Michael. Thus, CM has to be charged with murder.
-
*1. MJ investigation complete, only two days after TIAI announced Update #1.
*2. 333 pages of FBI files, planned release on same day as TIAI Revealed.
*3. $9.99 while LaToya shopping, connecting with “99” days after 9-9-09.
#4. Six 911 articles on TMZ, the day after TIAI conspiracies on Google (911, etc).
#5. Murray on TMZ news four times, the same day as the TIAI Murray redirect.
*6. Vendetta on 11-5; Evan Chandler / Emerald City on 11-17 (70th anniversary).
*7. 2012 trailer, a week before “Jackson” and many other MJ parallels came out.
*8. TII Resurrection scene in a graveyard (not funeral & casket, etc).
*9. TII would Reveal the hoax (Smooth Criminal, no RIP, BAM statement, etc).
*10. TII would show the MJ “Return” (this very word is now on the DVD).
*11. 1998 autograph codes; 77 days & 7 days all pointed to 9-9-09, fulfilled by several TII and MJ related events.
*12. ALLJACK5ONS tweet on 1-18 about TIAI “Revealed” (also the 3-11 tweet).
#13. TMZ clue on January 25.
#14. TMZ, Murray, and murder versus hoax clue on February 5.
*15. High probability of “piece by piece” return starting in January (see #12, etc).
*16. Autopsy finalized 9-9-09, released just one day after I said “9-9-09 update”.
#17. TIAI redirect to TMZ, less than an hour before the big MJ Killed Himself post.
#18. Update #4 (4-44), #17 article posted on 4-4 at 4:00 AM (444).
*19. Elvis redirect on 5-10, several Elvis events happen from 5-12 to 5-20 (next).
*20. Update 5 (with 12 sections) on 5-12 at 5:12 AM; later that day TMZ starts LMP series from 5-12 to 5-17. Also, Linda talks to Jesse on 5-12.
*21. The final part of TIAI Update (#5d) is posted evening of 5-19 (CA time). On 5-19, Eliza posted a message on her homepage, for the first time in about four months; then on 5-20, the article by attorney Mayoras was posted (6-1, above).
*22. “Strong Evidence of TS’s Authenticity” {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13541; viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}
the murder theory "crash" with all this and all these events are no coincidence that certainly is a widely used resource for those who are unable to find a coherent explanation for situations which apparently do not. The more we learn we find less "casual" ... then "all" the family would have to agree on a plan to murder all makes logical
-
This has to be one of the most saddest and unnecessary threads I've ever read or participated in on this website. It's nothing against Souza, because I love her logic and writing style the most out of all participants, and I'm not kissing up. It's just fact. But I do wonder about what TS is about these days. What is the purpose really of this thread? Level X my hind parts. It sucks big toe nails. Not knocking the ones that delight in it at tall by the way. This is between me and TS.
MJ = LOVE period. He is a very Positive person as I believe I am. I say he's Brilliant, because of the Light he has always exuded. The word genius is thrown around too much for my taste. He is a Brilliant man that emits a lot of Light and always has. He is an Enlightened and Awakened individual.
The theme of today is Unity Consciousness. So how can discussing such a depressing and sad topic be helpful, beneficial or enlightening in the positive sense? It defeats the purpose of what Michael Jackson is all about. He is about love and unity - period.
Maybe it's me, but I think this topic stinks to depths of meaningless banter. I know, I don't have to read up, and believe me, I haven't read most posts at all, because it's so depressing to read such negative things.
I often wondered why some on here thinks that TMZ is only posting articles for us hoaxers. They have a much larger audience than the people on this board. They are posting many of these BS articles concerning Murray and other MJ related things just to mess with people. MJ wrote a song entitled Tabloids Junkie, because he was sick of how people would believe anything the lying tabloids and MSM told about him. It hurt him that many believed the lies its true - but with this hoax - and when it pertains to much of the news about this case (MJ's hoax), it's put out there as a documentation as to how easy some can be fooled, how gullible some are and how ignorant people are to believe anything that's in print without any investigation.
Again, this website and others like it is not why TMZ exists. It existed and had a large readership before 6-25-09. MJ is punking his haters, many in all areas and types of media - and the ones that rely on their governments or the lying and scheming media for truth.
In my opinion, TS is doing partly the same thing. I said a couple of weeks ago, that MJ wants for people interested in the hoax to prove why he is alive, not why and how he died. That defeats the purpose.
And TS, I do feel sorry for the Newbies. Many folks will run away from this website rather than embrace it. It's like now we want them to doubt us even further. We want them to think us crazy. I know I was getting a few recruits to wonder what if MJ is alive. Many of them were getting hopeful. Many still don't want to. Why? Why should it matter to anyone really?
I think it matters to a lot of people, because many of us always felt MJ's brilliance and radiance, and the love he had for humanity and his God. Many people loved his music, yes, but many more also loved his HEART. So how does it seem right to mess with the newbies to this website and to the idea that MJ is alive - for believe me, many want so desperately for it to be true. They may not understand it themselves, but they know that there was always something so special about the man. They now in retrospect realize that when they used to hear him speak from his heart more so than hear him sing (many already felt he sang like an angel since 5 or 6 years old), they were drawn to him.
These are the ones I feel sorry for. The ones that are new to the idea. Well I suppose, they may need to bypass this website, for they won't get any true feelings of convictions from most. They won't get any CORE BELIEFS from many. Many are wishy-washy, and therefore are not more of an inspiration than the ones that call MJ names, think he molested children - and last but not least, think he was a druggie. They would be wrong on all counts of course, but to believe that he is dead is to believe that he took this drug - PROP FOR FOOL - and demoral and other such drugs.
Some lose the plot every other day and forget that in all movies that are screened have to have a story to tell in the way the author envisions it. It has a beginning, middle and an ending.
Some say they can't be sure of this and that concerning this HOAX/ARG/DOCUMENTARY - let alone that the man is alive. Some of the older posters are still trying to figure out if he is alive? It is almost turning into some kind of draconian joke. And it's sad that it has come to this. Well I can be sure of this and that. No one could have had the BRILLIANCE to pull off a hoax that he has been planning for years but Michael Jackson. I've seen him alive in the flesh after 6-25-09 - and that's enough for me.
TS - You can take this level and either fill in the blank or get of the pot.
-
I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out why the Illuminati would be so interested in Michael. I'm not completely convinced that they exist at all and if they do that they are as cracked up as everyone makes them, try to remember people in general sort of form their own opinions about things when they aren't educated about it completely. If the Illuminati are so secretive, people can say what they want about them and who is going to correct them? No one, why because they don't want to be pointed out, so we as the general public continue to believe in what we are told and what we can find out in books or on the web by those who think they are in the know but in fact no nothing. Has there ever been one single person who stood up and said "yes I am with the Illuminati and this is what we are all about"? No, why because they would be hounded by everyone who has ever been interested in conspiracy theories, secrets and the unknown. Hell for that matter the same person that comes clean about being in the Illuminati would have to go into hiding! So let's for argument sake say that the Illuminati exist, what would they possibly want with Michael? His catalog? Why what purpose would it suit them? Sony, well yes they could profit from having it so I can see where the concern is that he would want to keep it from them. In fact that is his money maker after all. Michael doesn't have to come out with a new album or produce anything of his own for years on end and still is able to rake in money because of his catalog. So are we suppose to believe that Sony has direct contact with someone in the Illuminati and they put together an extensive plan to dispose of Michael in the best way they sought fit?
Michael himself said in an interview or threw a conversation about how he can say one thing and no one would believe him, BUT if the media said the same exact thing it would be considered the truth. Now, with that being said, I question everyone who has said in the last two years that Michael was in fear for his life. Why? Did they personally believe that? Did they have any indication themselves that he was in danger? OR was it told by him? After all, we the general public who have had no personal conversations with Michael and came up with the conclusion on our own that he was in danger, were told by him through interviews. Yes Michael is first human but he has also had the spotlight on him his entire life, so he has trained himself to present himself in a certain manner. He as well as all entertainers, politicians, the President (ANYONE who is in the spotlight) show us what they want us to see. We perceive them the way they want us to. So again, we were told by Michael himself that he was in danger and feared for his life. His family I'm sure was told the same, not that they picked it up on their own, he told them. Could it be that he did it on purpose? It's been said that this hoax took years in the making, what better way to steer everyone to think that there was a conspiracy against him, what better way to steer everyone that he was murdered but to first put it in their head that there was danger in the first place. All it takes is for someone to plant the seed, feed it a little bit and then watch it blossom from there.
-
[font=cursive:3e9mklz8]Peacock7...I feel your pain and also feel you are a pot simmering yourself. I thought when TS posted this thread it was one I'd skip. I thought it was morbid and, really actually you wrote my feelings very well.
BUT, then members have written so VERY well it drew me in.
Now, I realize that...IMO, that TS has posted this for us to be spared the pain we surely will feel in the trial when all these murder stories come up. We need to try this before so we can handle it. We've pretty much done the prosecution side..now is the time for the defense. What they'll say -- how we'll, as the prosecution shoot it down. Because if we don't work this out now...reason it out, we could be drawn into believing he's been killed.
I think this will strengthen us. I think already, we are proving to each other that a murder by the illluminati or Murray..is practically impossible and unreasonable on their part to have done.
My opinion has changed, I hope you too peacock will find strength in all the research and know that dealing with it now together will be much easier after we debunk it now.
LOVE out to you.[/font:3e9mklz8]
-
Are there really enough hoaxers for an Agent to spend time 'messing' with our minds. Does anyone really listen to us anyway? So far, the people I have told about the hoax don't seem to care whether it is the truth or not, which I find sad but it is what it is. If Michael was murdered than what about all of the other events that point to a hoax. You can't just erase those to make a Murder theory seem plausible. Just like you can't ignore the family sayin he is dead and the supposed autopsy reports and death certificate. Why is it that every legitimate document has Michael JOE and every seemingly fake document has Michael JOSEPH? Why did Ben slip and almost say 'the other day'? Why so much talk of the children being great actors? And Prince wanting to be a director? None want to pursue singing/dancing like their father has done for 40 yrs of his life? Why is everyone wirting a damn book instead of going to authorities about MJ's killer? Why do we see no tears from them? Why are new people still coming out about 6.25.09, like Kathy Hilton? Why is Teddy Riley saying he KNOWS Mike is alive? Why is Teddy saying Michael album is all MJ? Why are family members saying it is not all MJ? Why are the Cascio's saying that Michael recorded the songs in their basement/studio? Why would they lie if they have never once shown any signs of wanting to exploit MJ for their own gain? Why is it there is still NO name on MJ's grave?!?! Why does Forest Lawn say that Michael was never buried there? Why is that Diana Ross did not make it to his funeral or memorial? Why is it that the funeral only uses Liberian Girl pictures? Why is it the memorial is filled with people who had never even met MJ? Why is the memorial exactly 7 years apart from his supposed Will (with incorrect names) on 7-7-07? Why is it that Michael was staying in a house so close to Sunset Blvd, one of the busiest streets in America? Why were there no paparazzi on 6.25 when they are always outside of his house? Why is there one picture, and it is photoshopped?
I think of myself as a pretty good judge of people and I can usually tell when someone is lying to my face. A murder theory would only be possible to me if none of the other things mentioned by me (and others) had occured.
If someone wanted MJ dead, they picked one hell of a time to do it! why not sooner, why not later after the concerts when he had more money to take? I think the TII announcement was simply a wake up call to the world to direct attention once more at a man that hadn't had an album out since 2001. Everything is planned carefully and you can see it better when you get rid of all the doubt.
I agree with everything you wrote. And all these people who attended the memorial and the funeral had to be illuminati or they ALL (including family) should be so happy that Michael died because everyone was laughing!
(http://i43.tinypic.com/ev3xoz.jpg) (http://i34.tinypic.com/r1anvn.jpg) (http://i35.tinypic.com/2z6yy3m.jpg) (http://i38.tinypic.com/35k0owl.jpg) (http://i33.tinypic.com/zjxhd3.jpg) (http://i56.tinypic.com/10ds803.jpg) (http://i54.tinypic.com/2agw3sj.jpg) (http://i53.tinypic.com/2ns5841.jpg) (http://i56.tinypic.com/29xynw3.jpg)
And YAY Michael Died Party?!
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2gvvjwx.jpg)
Yes, people can have different emotions when they lose someone they love but NOT everyone can look happy and fine with it! And Michael's "death" was a sudden death and he was young. People needed to be shocked and so sad. I see no sad faces in the pictures and videos.
Why is that Diana Ross did not make it to his funeral or memorial?
During the "tribute" she did to Michael she said: "Michael, call me if you need me." <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
I really do not know how people still can think about a murder/death possibility. After all of these things, what else should the man do to let us know that he is really alive and fine. I think nothing can make some understand it. Well...
-
Do you think all these people would know of the hoax, PureLove? Too risky. I think some outside the family, yes, but all of them?
TS always warned a few people to know about the hoax. I really do not know.
-
Do you think all these people would know of the hoax, PureLove? Too risky. I think some outside the family, yes, but all of them?
TS always warned a few people to know about the hoax. I really do not know.
These people in the pictures know IMO. TS made an explanation what he meant with "few" people.
-
It's been said that this hoax took years in the making, what better way to steer everyone to think that there was a conspiracy against him, what better way to steer everyone that he was murdered but to first put it in their head that there was danger in the first place. All it takes is for someone to plant the seed, feed it a little bit and then watch it blossom from there.
You make a very good point here and one that has often gone through my mind. It is frequently said, as if it's proven fact, that MJ was in danger, he had to get away etc etc, but my common sense tells me that if that were the case he wouldn't have taken decades to plan his getaway, for safety's sake he would have left no clues and he wouldn't have chosen a suspicious death. The numerology that many have a hard time accepting, me included at times, is I think the best proof we have of this being planned and therefore not a last minute bid for freedom or safety.
-
This has to be one of the most saddest and unnecessary threads I've ever read or participated in on this website. It's nothing against Souza, because I love her logic and writing style the most out of all participants, and I'm not kissing up. It's just fact. But I do wonder about what TS is about these days. What is the purpose really of this thread? Level X my hind parts. It sucks big toe nails. Not knocking the ones that delight in it at tall by the way. This is between me and TS.
MJ = LOVE period. He is a very Positive person as I believe I am. I say he's Brilliant, because of the Light he has always exuded. The word genius is thrown around too much for my taste. He is a Brilliant man that emits a lot of Light and always has. He is an Enlightened and Awakened individual.
The theme of today is Unity Consciousness. So how can discussing such a depressing and sad topic be helpful, beneficial or enlightening in the positive sense? It defeats the purpose of what Michael Jackson is all about. He is about love and unity - period.
Maybe it's me, but I think this topic stinks to depths of meaningless banter. I know, I don't have to read up, and believe me, I haven't read most posts at all, because it's so depressing to read such negative things.
I often wondered why some on here thinks that TMZ is only posting articles for us hoaxers. They have a much larger audience than the people on this board. They are posting many of these BS articles concerning Murray and other MJ related things just to mess with people. MJ wrote a song entitled Tabloids Junkie, because he was sick of how people would believe anything the lying tabloids and MSM told about him. It hurt him that many believed the lies its true - but with this hoax - and when it pertains to much of the news about this case (MJ's hoax), it's put out there as a documentation as to how easy some can be fooled, how gullible some are and how ignorant people are to believe anything that's in print without any investigation.
Again, this website and others like it is not why TMZ exists. It existed and had a large readership before 6-25-09. MJ is punking his haters, many in all areas and types of media - and the ones that rely on their governments or the lying and scheming media for truth.
In my opinion, TS is doing partly the same thing. I said a couple of weeks ago, that MJ wants for people interested in the hoax to prove why he is alive, not why and how he died. That defeats the purpose.
And TS, I do feel sorry for the Newbies. Many folks will run away from this website rather than embrace it. It's like now we want them to doubt us even further. We want them to think us crazy. I know I was getting a few recruits to wonder what if MJ is alive. Many of them were getting hopeful. Many still don't want to. Why? Why should it matter to anyone really?
I think it matters to a lot of people, because many of us always felt MJ's brilliance and radiance, and the love he had for humanity and his God. Many people loved his music, yes, but many more also loved his HEART. So how does it seem right to mess with the newbies to this website and to the idea that MJ is alive - for believe me, many want so desperately for it to be true. They may not understand it themselves, but they know that there was always something so special about the man. They now in retrospect realize that when they used to hear him speak from his heart more so than hear him sing (many already felt he sang like an angel since 5 or 6 years old), they were drawn to him.
These are the ones I feel sorry for. The ones that are new to the idea. Well I suppose, they may need to bypass this website, for they won't get any true feelings of convictions from most. They won't get any CORE BELIEFS from many. Many are wishy-washy, and therefore are not more of an inspiration than the ones that call MJ names, think he molested children - and last but not least, think he was a druggie. They would be wrong on all counts of course, but to believe that he is dead is to believe that he took this drug - PROP FOR FOOL - and demoral and other such drugs.
Some lose the plot every other day and forget that in all movies that are screened have to have a story to tell in the way the author envisions it. It has a beginning, middle and an ending.
Some say they can't be sure of this and that concerning this HOAX/ARG/DOCUMENTARY - let alone that the man is alive. Some of the older posters are still trying to figure out if he is alive? It is almost turning into some kind of draconian joke. And it's sad that it has come to this. Well I can be sure of this and that. No one could have had the BRILLIANCE to pull off a hoax that he has been planning for years but Michael Jackson. I've seen him alive in the flesh after 6-25-09 - and that's enough for me.
TS - You can take this level and either fill in the blank or get of the pot.
Peacock,
I hate to put you on the spot but am I understanding you correctly when you wrote above: "I've seen him alive in the flesh after 6-25-09-and that's enough for me."???????
Thanks you!!!!!!
-
TS, I cannot debunk a murder, but since you brought up the illuminati, there are more options about what could have happenend:
<!-- m -->http://allilluminati.wordpress.com/2011 ... ns-murder/ (http://allilluminati.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/the-truth-behind-michael-jacksons-murder/)<!-- m -->
The Truth Behind Michael Jackson’s Murder
Jan 13,2011
Posted by Grace
.
Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, died on June 25, 2009. The Los Angeles County Coroner declared Michael’s death a homicide caused by drugs that had been administered to him. Dr. Conrad Murray was charged with his death. And if the Illuminati had their way, that would be the end of the story. But the truth is much more sinister. Conrad Murray is simply a scapegoat of … the Illuminati.
The story they don’t want you to hear involves Michael’s lifelong affiliation with the Illuminati, an affiliation that ended in his untimely death. Since his days in the Jackson Five, Michael was taught the secrets of the Illuminati. This is part of the Illuminati’s longstanding plan to recruit popular performers. The Illuminati use these performers to insert subliminal mind control messages in their songs. After achieving the rank of King of Pop, Michael began to realize the danger the Illuminati presented to mankind and approached the CIA offering to spill the secrets in exchange for protection.
Michael knew he could not speak out directly against the Illuminati. His only course of action was to hide hidden messages in his album artwork as a means to pass information to the public and his CIA handler. He did so at great risk to himself, and he paid the ultimate price when the Illuminati were tipped off by some of the song titles on the Dangerous album. ”Remember the Time” was written as an ode to Michael’s pre-Illuminati days. ”Keep the Faith” was a coded message to like minded Illuminati defectors to keep the faith. Michael sensed his days were numbered.
Fearing the Illuminati could shut him down at any moment, Michael included “Will You Be There” in the Free Willy soundtrack as a signal to his CIA handler that he needed immediate extraction and requesting confirmation that the CIA would be at the predetermined meeting place to take him into protective custody. Unfortunately, “Will You Be There” became known to almost everyone as “The Free Willy Song.” The tragic result was the CIA failed to catch the message. When Michael showed up at the meet, his cover was blown. The Illuminati initially attempted to discredit him through child molestation charges. When that failed, killed him.
With Michael out of the way, the Illuminati plan continues today through Kanye West, Jay-Z, Rihanna, Ice Cube, Lady Ga-Ga, Britney Spears, and possibly Mission Man. It is imperative that all fans of Michael Jackson share this page to ensure that this hero did not die in vain.
And
<!-- m -->http://earthenigma.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... n-in-2012/ (http://earthenigma.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/will-michael-jackson-return-in-2012/)<!-- m -->
Will Michael Jackson Return in 2012?
i11 Votes
UPDATED CONTENT – READ
Michael Jackson will be back at 11:11 on December 21, 2012
The Gospel of Michael Jackson will be the death of Jesus
Everyone who has researched 2012 is expecting the world to end, to plummet to new lows, for earthquakes to shake and wars to rage. Others think that enlightenment will descend upon us like the soft landing of a beautiful white dove, for our minds to expand, to reach new levels of consciousness…
What I can say for sure is that the Illuminati will undoubtedly do something to fulfil the prediction. They probably will orchestrate the next world war, they probably will cause extreme weather and earthquakes with the help of HAARP but I think the Illuminati will use their most useful tool to unite the world into a New World Order – Michael Jackson.
The establishment want you to think MJ is dead – they put a lot of work into this lie but Michael Jackson is alive. If you think Dave Dave wasn’t Michael Jackson on Larry King Live – you’ve got a screw loose. If you think Michael Jackson wasn’t the blonde woman at his tribute show, holding Chris Tucker’s hand, you also have a screw loose.
Michael Jackson’s return is imminent and I urge you to watch the media intently over the next 18 months, because the media will prepare you for his ‘second coming.’
His re-emergence won’t be for the good of the world though – that’s my worry. MJ has so many adoring fans across the globe already, and I suspect that the media will work to change the perception of the many MJ-haters so they all sympathise with him, so they all love him too. It may come to light that he was set up for the so-called child molestation accusations and some illuminati stooge will take the fall for this. It will come to light that his skin condition was due to someone’s foul-play. We will all come to sympathise with him, we will all hate ourselves for doubting him and we will all love him while thinking he is dead.
And then the greatest show on earth will begin. The most ground-breaking CGI spectacle of all time will get the green light. It really will be like ‘the second coming.’
If Michael Jackson is indeed alive, he is without doubt the most powerful tool at the illuminati’s disposal and he will be used to full effect.
No media-fronting superstar has ever gained his level of popularity and exposure – never – and for that reason, the illuminati will use him for all his worth. He really is bigger than Jesus – you saw the world’s reaction when he died. Nobody in such a high profile position can fake their own death without the illuminati establishment knowing about it – absolutely no chance! He appeared as Dave Dave on Larry King so the establishment could see whether or not he had the ability to fool the world – he succeeded. It was also a way to play with the people of the earth. The Illuminati like playing games – remember that – that is why the illuminati symbolism appears in every mainstream music video.
He died in 2009, he will re-emerge in 2012 after 3 years of intense MK-Ultra mind control, 3 years of rehearsals in a secret location for his comeback ‘show. (="HOAX"?)’ The world loves him, but we know what the Illuminati are like. They will use this love and use it to create fear, use it to further their agenda – to complete their agenda in fact, and create the one world, unified government and unified religion.
This brings us to what the Illuminati has used Michael Jackson for all along. They want to unify the world with a new world religion – with MJ as the new Christ and saviour.
We are watching and living through the gospel of Michael Jackson. The story will be written that he died and three years later he rose from the dead to ‘save the world.’ He is the new god-head. Like Jesus he had a life of trials and tribulations. Michael was falsely hated and accused (like Jesus) and lived to tell the tale. He taught about love and has many parables, but nobody listened (like Jesus). He was persecuted. He died because somebody betrayed him (his doctor-bloke) and three years later (like Jesus’ three days) he rose from the dead to ‘heal the world.’ The Jesus Gospel marked the Age of Pisces and the Michael Gospel will mark the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. He will probably arrive with the music of ‘Heal the World.’
By Decemeber 21, 2012, I imagine the world’s population will be greatly diminished. World Wars, numerousFukushima’s and major natural disasters will leave humanity turning their back on faith. We will all want something, someone, to help us, to save us and then the illuminati will drop a bomb bigger thanHiroshima. They will drop MJ from the clouds. Everyone will stop and watch the CGI spectacle in awe. Weapons will fall from hands, the earth will stop trembling and Michael will unify the world in love – false love…
The illuminati know we are waking up and are beginning to see through their lies so when Michael returns – be wary, be afraid and question whatever the news networks tell us is ‘truth.’ It won’t be a miracle that he returned from the dead because he didn’t even die… I imagine they will say he ‘did die’ but he didn’t – we know that.
Many of you will be OVER THE MOON when Michael returns but I strongly believe he will be USED to dupe YOU into a new way of thinking. Don’t trust it. EarthEnigma told you now what is going to happen. If I am right (a big IF), I don’t want to say ‘I told you so.’
Michael Jackson will bring about the end to the world’s problems when he returns – but this is what the illuminati are planning. He will bring about a new spiritual era, for he will fulfil the Mayan prophesy, he will be here to save us, but it will all be part of a larger plot, a plan by the elite to gain total control over your lives.
I do not want to believe in what was written above, but since you came up with the involvement of the illuminati, and the fact THAT (maybe) THERE IS NO HOAX, there might be something else going on.
You ask us to debunk murder, but I want you to ask to debunk the fact that you might be not genuine/fake. If you are really sincere, AN INSIDER WITH GOOD INTENTIONS, AND ON THE RIGHT SIDE and are trying to help us through this hurtfull yourney, than this is not a hard task to do.
-
TS, I cannot debunk a murder, but since you brought up the illuminati, there are more options about what could have happenend:
<!-- m -->http://allilluminati.wordpress.com/2011 ... ns-murder/ (http://allilluminati.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/the-truth-behind-michael-jacksons-murder/)<!-- m -->
The Truth Behind Michael Jackson’s Murder
Jan 13,2011
Posted by Grace
Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, died on June 25, 2009. The Los Angeles County Coroner declared Michael’s death a homicide caused by drugs that had been administered to him. Dr. Conrad Murray was charged with his death. And if the Illuminati had their way, that would be the end of the story. But the truth is much more sinister. Conrad Murray is simply a scapegoat of … the Illuminati.
The story they don’t want you to hear involves Michael’s lifelong affiliation with the Illuminati, an affiliation that ended in his untimely death. Since his days in the Jackson Five, Michael was taught the secrets of the Illuminati. This is part of the Illuminati’s longstanding plan to recruit popular performers. The Illuminati use these performers to insert subliminal mind control messages in their songs. After achieving the rank of King of Pop, Michael began to realize the danger the Illuminati presented to mankind and approached the CIA offering to spill the secrets in exchange for protection.
Michael knew he could not speak out directly against the Illuminati.
IF believe this article, all stars are supervised by illuminati to spread NWO. However, as I recall, they ALL sing about LOVE, except for Michael who has songs about social problems. Michael, though, realized that he is controlled suprisingly pretty late than it should have been and approached to CIA for help? The organization that made of masons..... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
His only course of action was to hide hidden messages in his album artwork as a means to pass information to the public and his CIA handler. He did so at great risk to himself, and he paid the ultimate price when the Illuminati were tipped off by some of the song titles on the Dangerous album. ”Remember the Time” was written as an ode to Michael’s pre-Illuminati days. ”Keep the Faith” was a coded message to like minded Illuminati defectors to keep the faith. Michael sensed his days were numbered.
Then Michael started to play double game; fooling fans and illuminati singing hidden messages to them, but sending message to people against illuminati. Wow. He is a monster. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Fearing the Illuminati could shut him down at any moment, Michael included “Will You Be There” in the Free Willy soundtrack as a signal to his CIA handler that he needed immediate extraction and requesting confirmation that the CIA would be at the predetermined meeting place to take him into protective custody. Unfortunately, “Will You Be There” became known to almost everyone as “The Free Willy Song.” The tragic result was the CIA failed to catch the message. When Michael showed up at the meet, his cover was blown. The Illuminati initially attempted to discredit him through child molestation charges. When that failed, killed him.
So, Michael could not just pick up the phone and call CIA and meet with them to say something in words, he needed to SING that message. But then CIA was dumb fool to catch message as a ball it passed to illuminati who caught it as a perfect goalkeeper. Hmmmmm
<!-- m -->http://earthenigma.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... n-in-2012/ (http://earthenigma.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/will-michael-jackson-return-in-2012/)<!-- m -->
Michael Jackson’s return is imminent and I urge you to watch the media intently over the next 18 months, because the media will prepare you for his ‘second coming.’
His re-emergence won’t be for the good of the world though – that’s my worry. If Michael Jackson is indeed alive, he is without doubt the most powerful tool at the illuminati’s disposal and he will be used to full effect.
And then the greatest show on earth will begin. The most ground-breaking CGI spectacle of all time will get the green light. It really will be like ‘the second coming.’
No media-fronting superstar has ever gained his level of popularity and exposure – never – and for that reason, the illuminati will use him for all his worth.The Illuminati like playing games – remember that – that is why the illuminati symbolism appears in every mainstream music video.
He died in 2009, he will re-emerge in 2012 after 3 years of intense MK-Ultra mind control, 3 years of rehearsals in a secret location for his comeback ‘show. (="HOAX"?)’ The world loves him, but we know what the Illuminati are like. They will use this love and use it to create fear, use it to further their agenda – to complete their agenda in fact, and create the one world, unified government and unified religion.This brings us to what the Illuminati has used Michael Jackson for all along. They want to unify the world with a new world religion – with MJ as the new Christ and saviour.
We are watching and living through the gospel of Michael Jackson. He will probably arrive with the music of ‘Heal the World.’
Here we see that Michael's desparate attempts to confront with illuminati fails and ends up with give up and be controlled and used by illuminati to fool us. OK! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Michael Jackson will bring about the end to the world’s problems when he returns – but this is what the illuminati are planning. He will bring about a new spiritual era, for he will fulfil the Mayan prophesy, he will be here to save us, but it will all be part of a larger plot, a plan by the elite to gain total control over your lives.
I do not want to believe in what was written above, but since you came up with the involvement of the illuminati, and the fact THAT (maybe) THERE IS NO HOAX, there might be something else going on.
You ask us to debunk murder, but I want you to ask to debunk the fact that you might be not genuine/fake. If you are really sincere, AN INSIDER WITH GOOD INTENTIONS, AND ON THE RIGHT SIDE and are trying to help us through this hurtfull yourney, than this is not a hard task to do.
Do, don't take personal. I am just analysing the article. First I want to clear up that I do not care who TS is.
To me he/she is not more than any other member here with mistakes & uncertainty in its theories as we all have.
I participate in analysys/consideration of cons and pros of hoax and murder theories as everyone else for myself and all fellow members & guests, not because I follow levels. We all want the truth. To be honest, this article seems total nonsense to me as I already commented about contradictions of the story above. Finally, as long as Michael is alive, I don't care what is behind, we will figure THAT out later. Because whoever does whatever, there is no 100% guarantee in the success and goal achievement anyway. Then question arises, is it worth it?
-
This has to be one of the most saddest and unnecessary threads I've ever read or participated in on this website. It's nothing against Souza, because I love her logic and writing style the most out of all participants, and I'm not kissing up. It's just fact. But I do wonder about what TS is about these days. What is the purpose really of this thread? Level X my hind parts. It sucks big toe nails. Not knocking the ones that delight in it at tall by the way. This is between me and TS.
MJ = LOVE period. He is a very Positive person as I believe I am. I say he's Brilliant, because of the Light he has always exuded. The word genius is thrown around too much for my taste. He is a Brilliant man that emits a lot of Light and always has. He is an Enlightened and Awakened individual.
The theme of today is Unity Consciousness. So how can discussing such a depressing and sad topic be helpful, beneficial or enlightening in the positive sense? It defeats the purpose of what Michael Jackson is all about. He is about love and unity - period.
Maybe it's me, but I think this topic stinks to depths of meaningless banter. I know, I don't have to read up, and believe me, I haven't read most posts at all, because it's so depressing to read such negative things.
I often wondered why some on here thinks that TMZ is only posting articles for us hoaxers. They have a much larger audience than the people on this board. They are posting many of these BS articles concerning Murray and other MJ related things just to mess with people. MJ wrote a song entitled Tabloids Junkie, because he was sick of how people would believe anything the lying tabloids and MSM told about him. It hurt him that many believed the lies its true - but with this hoax - and when it pertains to much of the news about this case (MJ's hoax), it's put out there as a documentation as to how easy some can be fooled, how gullible some are and how ignorant people are to believe anything that's in print without any investigation.
Again, this website and others like it is not why TMZ exists. It existed and had a large readership before 6-25-09. MJ is punking his haters, many in all areas and types of media - and the ones that rely on their governments or the lying and scheming media for truth.
In my opinion, TS is doing partly the same thing. I said a couple of weeks ago, that MJ wants for people interested in the hoax to prove why he is alive, not why and how he died. That defeats the purpose.
And TS, I do feel sorry for the Newbies. Many folks will run away from this website rather than embrace it. It's like now we want them to doubt us even further. We want them to think us crazy. I know I was getting a few recruits to wonder what if MJ is alive. Many of them were getting hopeful. Many still don't want to. Why? Why should it matter to anyone really?
I think it matters to a lot of people, because many of us always felt MJ's brilliance and radiance, and the love he had for humanity and his God. Many people loved his music, yes, but many more also loved his HEART. So how does it seem right to mess with the newbies to this website and to the idea that MJ is alive - for believe me, many want so desperately for it to be true. They may not understand it themselves, but they know that there was always something so special about the man. They now in retrospect realize that when they used to hear him speak from his heart more so than hear him sing (many already felt he sang like an angel since 5 or 6 years old), they were drawn to him.
These are the ones I feel sorry for. The ones that are new to the idea. Well I suppose, they may need to bypass this website, for they won't get any true feelings of convictions from most. They won't get any CORE BELIEFS from many. Many are wishy-washy, and therefore are not more of an inspiration than the ones that call MJ names, think he molested children - and last but not least, think he was a druggie. They would be wrong on all counts of course, but to believe that he is dead is to believe that he took this drug - PROP FOR FOOL - and demoral and other such drugs.
Some lose the plot every other day and forget that in all movies that are screened have to have a story to tell in the way the author envisions it. It has a beginning, middle and an ending.
Some say they can't be sure of this and that concerning this HOAX/ARG/DOCUMENTARY - let alone that the man is alive. Some of the older posters are still trying to figure out if he is alive? It is almost turning into some kind of draconian joke. And it's sad that it has come to this. Well I can be sure of this and that. No one could have had the BRILLIANCE to pull off a hoax that he has been planning for years but Michael Jackson. I've seen him alive in the flesh after 6-25-09 - and that's enough for me.
TS - You can take this level and either fill in the blank or get of the pot.
[highlight=#ff40ff:16yzxj4q]Peacock,
I hate to put you on the spot but am I understanding you correctly when you wrote above:
"I've seen him alive in the flesh after 6-25-09-and that's enough for me."???????
Really????? If so, can you tell us more?
Thank you!!!!!!
[/highlight:16yzxj4q]
So sorry to re-post this but my original post above (in this thread) did not discriminate Peacock's original post from my question. Thank you.
-
[font=cursive:16wx31zr]Peacock7...I feel your pain and also feel you are a pot simmering yourself. I thought when TS posted this thread it was one I'd skip. I thought it was morbid and, really actually you wrote my feelings very well.
BUT, then members have written so VERY well it drew me in.
Now, I realize that...IMO, that TS has posted this for us to be spared the pain we surely will feel in the trial when all these murder stories come up. We need to try this before so we can handle it. We've pretty much done the prosecution side..now is the time for the defense. What they'll say -- how we'll, as the prosecution shoot it down. Because if we don't work this out now...reason it out, we could be drawn into believing he's been killed.
I think this will strengthen us. I think already, we are proving to each other that a murder by the illluminati or Murray..is practically impossible and unreasonable on their part to have done.
My opinion has changed, I hope you too peacock will find strength in all the research and know that dealing with it now together will be much easier after we debunk it now.
LOVE out to you.[/font:16wx31zr]
fordtocarr you took the words out of my mouth. I was about to reply to Peacock7 and try to explain her the same thing. I to was a little upset why is TS telling us the the Illuminati killed Michael? I am not so sure the Illuminati did it, but like you said this is a good preperation for the trial . IF THERE WILL BE A TRIAL. I hope Peacock7 will have a change of heart, I do understand her 100% it is very harsh and a weird predicament Ts put us through. In my heart Michael is alive, if he does not come back I listen to my heart. Blessings to all...
-
It's not so hard to understand why TS made this post. He simply wanted to learn what we learned during the past 2 years, and how this hoax changed us. When he wrote "I'm on Jermaine's side now", it doesn't mean that he is really on Jermaine's side or he thinks that Michael is dead. He is playing the devil's advocate and this is not the first time he's doing this. He wants us to question what exactly we know about the hoax. I really can not believe to see that some of you lose faith over this and/or question why TS gave this topic to discuss about. Everything is day light clear, and there is nothing to be depressed. This is a great topic where we can also discuss if a murder could be possible. We are looking at the hoax from all aspects. TS doesn't want us to believe anything blindly but to examine every little detail from all aspects. We should know why we believe Michael is alive. This is what's going to keep our faith strong. Remember TS wrote: "Whatever happens, keep the faith."
And as much as I read the posts on this thread, I become more and more sure that a murder plot is impossible and Michael is behind this huge project. But still if the thread is depressing you, maybe you'd better skip it.
-
I've done more thinking, just small little spurts while doing other things around the house. But here's my thought. TS wants us to consider the murder theory. OK, giving that a try. I for now am completely ignoring the Illuminati as the possible murderers or atleast the ones behind the one(s) who actually committed the murder. Who else would have motive? Putting aside the psychotic fans that every artist has of course. As someone has also mentioned Michael was constantly surrounded by others. Who would have been able to get close enough to do harm to him without causing a stir with all of the bodyguards, staff members, the cook oh and lets not forget the children? Let's say that Dr. M is the one who in fact killed Michael. From what we know Michael is the one who hired him. I can't remember the exact amount but wasn't the doc making a nice chunk of change working for Michael? Considering everything we've seen and heard (and that's all we have to go off of) the good ol' doc needed the money. Wouldn't Michael be more valuable to him alive? He surely isn't making hundreds of thousands of dollars now. Well, no I'll take that back, he's probably made more money in the last two years (and possibly longer) thru Michael for his part in the hoax. So who else is out there? Sony, because they want the catalog? When exactly did Michael join up with them? They had how many years to try to get the catalog by any means necessary? So why now? Just my thought here, if I were the top dog at Sony and I wanted to put a plot together to murder Michael so I could have the catalog, I would do it when he was down and out, when I knew he was at his weakest point; mentally and emotionally. I wouldn't wait until he's on top of his game again and getting ready to do shows at the O2 Center. *Side note- I think perhaps I should stop watching Law & Order*
I really am trying to comply with TS on this whole murder theory but I can't wrap my head around it. There is no way that it can be proven that the Illuminati did it (as I've said before if they do exist). So what would be the point in even investigating that route? How would we ever be proven wrong? Again, live I've said who is going to come out and say "I'm with the Illuminati and we did not kill Michael Jackson". The FBI? No, if we go by the 333 pages that they released of his file, they had no information on him and there would be no point. So, who are we left with and what motive would they have.
I really think that if we are suppose to consider the murder theory we should look elsewhere and not just concentrate on the Illuminati, we have to explore all possible people that we know were close to Michael or would have something to gain from his demise.
-
This has to be one of the most saddest and unnecessary threads I've ever read or participated in on this website. It's nothing against Souza, because I love her logic and writing style the most out of all participants, and I'm not kissing up. It's just fact. But I do wonder about what TS is about these days. What is the purpose really of this thread? Level X my hind parts. It sucks big toe nails. Not knocking the ones that delight in it at tall by the way. This is between me and TS.
MJ = LOVE period. He is a very Positive person as I believe I am. I say he's Brilliant, because of the Light he has always exuded. The word genius is thrown around too much for my taste. He is a Brilliant man that emits a lot of Light and always has. He is an Enlightened and Awakened individual.
The theme of today is Unity Consciousness. So how can discussing such a depressing and sad topic be helpful, beneficial or enlightening in the positive sense? It defeats the purpose of what Michael Jackson is all about. He is about love and unity - period.
Maybe it's me, but I think this topic stinks to depths of meaningless banter. I know, I don't have to read up, and believe me, I haven't read most posts at all, because it's so depressing to read such negative things.
I often wondered why some on here thinks that TMZ is only posting articles for us hoaxers. They have a much larger audience than the people on this board. They are posting many of these BS articles concerning Murray and other MJ related things just to mess with people. MJ wrote a song entitled Tabloids Junkie, because he was sick of how people would believe anything the lying tabloids and MSM told about him. It hurt him that many believed the lies its true - but with this hoax - and when it pertains to much of the news about this case (MJ's hoax), it's put out there as a documentation as to how easy some can be fooled, how gullible some are and how ignorant people are to believe anything that's in print without any investigation.
Again, this website and others like it is not why TMZ exists. It existed and had a large readership before 6-25-09. MJ is punking his haters, many in all areas and types of media - and the ones that rely on their governments or the lying and scheming media for truth.
In my opinion, TS is doing partly the same thing. I said a couple of weeks ago, that MJ wants for people interested in the hoax to prove why he is alive, not why and how he died. That defeats the purpose.
And TS, I do feel sorry for the Newbies. Many folks will run away from this website rather than embrace it. It's like now we want them to doubt us even further. We want them to think us crazy. I know I was getting a few recruits to wonder what if MJ is alive. Many of them were getting hopeful. Many still don't want to. Why? Why should it matter to anyone really?
I think it matters to a lot of people, because many of us always felt MJ's brilliance and radiance, and the love he had for humanity and his God. Many people loved his music, yes, but many more also loved his HEART. So how does it seem right to mess with the newbies to this website and to the idea that MJ is alive - for believe me, many want so desperately for it to be true. They may not understand it themselves, but they know that there was always something so special about the man. They now in retrospect realize that when they used to hear him speak from his heart more so than hear him sing (many already felt he sang like an angel since 5 or 6 years old), they were drawn to him.
These are the ones I feel sorry for. The ones that are new to the idea. Well I suppose, they may need to bypass this website, for they won't get any true feelings of convictions from most. They won't get any CORE BELIEFS from many. Many are wishy-washy, and therefore are not more of an inspiration than the ones that call MJ names, think he molested children - and last but not least, think he was a druggie. They would be wrong on all counts of course, but to believe that he is dead is to believe that he took this drug - PROP FOR FOOL - and demoral and other such drugs.
Some lose the plot every other day and forget that in all movies that are screened have to have a story to tell in the way the author envisions it. It has a beginning, middle and an ending.
Some say they can't be sure of this and that concerning this HOAX/ARG/DOCUMENTARY - let alone that the man is alive. Some of the older posters are still trying to figure out if he is alive? It is almost turning into some kind of draconian joke. And it's sad that it has come to this. Well I can be sure of this and that. No one could have had the BRILLIANCE to pull off a hoax that he has been planning for years but Michael Jackson. I've seen him alive in the flesh after 6-25-09 - and that's enough for me.
TS - You can take this level and either fill in the blank or get of the pot.
There are multiple possibilities as to why TS would post this thread. I hope my logic will now be my advantage to make you consider the options and see this as a positive thing, like I do.
First of all I want to say that TS did not ask us to prove the murder theory at all, he asked us to prove the hoax theory. I do see many people are coming up with possibilities for murder, but as I read it, that is not his intention.
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear.
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want.
1. See this as a study at University. Just a silly example: let's say you have studied genetics for 2 years and you have come to the conclusion that the parents of people with red hair both must have a gene for red hair. You have put 2 years of hard work into your investigation and your thesis is complete with evidence, lab results, you name it. You are confident of your investigation and results and will have to appear before a board to defend your conclusion and investigation. The board will let you explain your study, your results and then they will challenge you, EVEN if they know you are right. What if they will present you a different case? Father with genes for both brown and blond hair, mother with genes for blond and red, child has red hair? According to genetics, the child can have brown hair or blond hair, not red. Are you going to let your head hang and raise the white flag, or are you confident enough about your own investigation and challenge them back by at least asking them to provide proof that both the man and the woman are the biological parents of the child? In other words, even IF you are wrong about some details, or have missed some, do you trust your own judgement and are you confident enough that the research you have done was thorough enough to answer any question, whether with argumented speculation or solid facts. Do you really believe in what you are claiming, or are you just hoping to be right because you know you haven't researched enough to be sure. That is how I was taught at school, defend your claims, either by reasonable arguments that leave room for doubt, wheter it's true or not, or come with facts. So purpose # 1: it's educational. Who benefits: we, and with us our children who will later benefit from our skills.
2. Again the story about your genetics thesis and the challenge of the board. They TEST you. Are you strong enough to stand their test? Have you investigated enough to be challenged about your conlusion? Hardly anyone is always right about everything, because sources, even study books, may have errors in them since they are all written by people. By raising the white flag and saying 'I don't know', you will not graduate because they will say you haven't researched well enough to defend your thesis. Even if you do not know certain facts, can you use your common sense and the things you do know and come up with a theory build on good arguments? In other words: Do you believe in yourself? Purpose # 2 of this thread: test, do you think for yourself? Who benefits: we, and with us again our children.
3. Wether or not you like the subjects of the latest redirects, they have serious discussions in them, with many very good arguments defending the hoax theory. Yet people can say (and we know some people do) that MJ was murdered and that they want people to believe it's a hoax. Without debunking that, all the other discussions are worth nothing. So the ambulance pic is fake? So what? It's a cover-up for murder. So the FBI is in on it? So what, they are probably part of the murder plot. Etc. etc.. Purpose # 3: collect reasonable arguments to defend your hoax story even when people come up with the most difficult questions. No one can tell you that you are crazy if you can defend your story with arguments they can't debunk. Who benefits: we, we will make ourselves more believable and with us the non-believers that deep in their hearts hope that we are right. I have never convinced anyone with telling them MJ is alive because he was Dave on LKL, or because that 'old' man in Hollywood Tonight is very suspicious if you get what I mean.
4. Although you see it as negative, I see it as a possitive thread (that is if everyone would indeed defend the HOAX theory, instead of inventing murder plots). It's a chance to dig up all the investigations of the past 2 years and collect them in one thread. It was so much that most of us probably forget certain things. By summing them all up, we should all have 'aha!' moments and have our faith even more strengthened. TS is the one that pointed out very strong argumants in favor of the hoax and we know he does not REALLY support the murder theory, so why would we be afraid of his challenges? I am sure that if we all pay attention and work together, we will have his debunks debunked in a second, which is (in my honest opinion) his intention. So purpose # 4: cheering you up! If your faith is strong, if you have no doubt at all about MJ being alive, then no thread can change your mind, no matter how negative some may be.
5. See # 4: we are going to collect the investigation of 2 years in one thread. It is possible that by doing that, we might be able to see things we haven't seen before, to build a coherent theory. In other words, purpose # 5 is to connect the dots. Who benefits: we because the more dots we have connected, the more sleep we get which hopefully in my case will mean less grey hairs and the magical disappearance of the sacks under my eyes.
6. To find an answer for level 3, since we haven't reached a conclusion on that one. I have said before that I don't see TS answering on that one at all, because I do believe it is a sting and in that case, certainly when it's still on-going, no one is going to spill the beans on that one. But with debunking a murder theory and proving a hoax theory, we will have to look at the options for murder as well, to be able to debunk it. Who would want to kill MJ and why, might be the answer for level 3. So purpose # 6: find an answer to level 3. Who benefits: we, because it will help us even more to connect the dots.
7. It's TS and I am sure that he has another purpose with it. Maybe it's a numerological thing, maybe he is trying to prepare some members for what is still to come; Jackson family attacking the hoax even more (not just Jermaine) or the stuff coming up at the trial, if we make it to that. Either way, he probably will not explain it until 'the time is right', so that's pure speculation. Who benefits: who knows.
Anyways, i just gave you 7 reasonable arguments to defend my theory about this thread and it's purpose. I hope I have at least made you consider them. If you still think this thread is useless and sad, you are free to debunk my arguments. It's never a bad thing to debunk hoax clues either. There are hundreds of theories floating around, and they can't all be true. By debunking we will eventually find the truth, because that what is left that can't be debunked, must be the truth.
[/color]
-
There are so many things... remind Pedro Lopez
Tuesday, June 22, 2010Peter Lopez: Suicide or Murder?
In November of 2009, Evan Chandler, the father of Jordan Chandler who accused Michael Jackson of child molestation, apparently committed suicide. Chandler died of a single and apparently self-inflicted gun shot to the head. In December of 2009, Arnold Klein's ex-employee of three years, Bruce Ayers, was found dead on a sidewalk in Los Angeles. Ayers knew Michael Jackson. So when Peter Lopez, a well respected and much liked attorney, who happened to work for Michael Jackson, committed suicide in May of 2010, a chill went down my spine. Why would this successful entertainment lawyer, who seemingly had it all (wife, kids, successful career, friends) go into his backyard and kill himself? The thought of his suicide was bad enough, but with three deaths of people connected to Michael Jackson within a six month period, I began to think this was not a coincidence. Perhaps, Peter Lopez had been murdered.
My suspicions were piqued when I read that NO ONE, not his mother nor his family and friends, saw any sign that Peter Lopez would commit suicide. Reports surfaced that said Lopez seemed slightly stressed, but not one sign that one morning, he would drop his two small daughters at school, return home, and shoot himself to death. And so, the digging began. I should say that there is VERY LITTLE information to find about one Peter M. Lopez, attorney at law. When I started reading, there was page after page after page of the same quote from Raymone Bain: that she hired Lopez when Jackson was reorganizing his finances in 2006, and how shocked she was, and that he was the nicest person in the entertainment field.
Other information on the internet states that Peter Lopez headed a division of Jackson's called MJJ Kingdom. Antennae on blogger go through the roof. MJJ KINGDOM? MJJ Kingdom is a subsidiary of Kingdom Entertainment, a joint venture between Michael Jackson and Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal of Saudi Arabia. Alwaleed is one of the richest men on the planet. He is usually listed on the Forbes 400 Richest Men in the World, at least in the top twenty. Alwaleed is currently worth in the vicinity of $20 billion dollars. (Contrast this to Tom Barrack who at the bottom of the list with a net worth of a mere (LOL) $1 billion.) In addition, Alwaleed invests heavily in the media. For example, Alwaleed owns a substantial share of News Corp., which just happens to own the NEW YORK POST, where Andrea Peyser wrote her horrid article "Freak of the Week". Coincidence or CONVENIENCE, people???
With regard to public documents, the California State Bar Association lists Peter Lopez as bar #61941, but will not release any information because he deceased. MJJ Kingdom is listed in both California and Delaware without any incident. However, in Delaware, MJJ Kingdom document is below:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-vXJzeq6nkQ/TCFOkQGscYI/AAAAAAAAACE/ytYLC97zHlc/s320/MJJ+Kingdom+LLC+2.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-vXJzeq6nkQ/TCFOj9sZX3I/AAAAAAAAAB8/9r9dIgAOAC8/s320/MJJ+Kingdom+LLC+1.jpg)
I hope you are able to read these, because the Delaware Recorder requires that a person pay for this. In the first screen shot, it states that the agent RESIGNED on 2/18/2010. Does this mean that Peter Lopez resigned from this Jackson subsidiary in February, only three months before his "suicide"? This scenario is one side of the Lopez coin.
The other side is that Lopez was conveniently/coincidentally hired TO REPLACE JOHN BRANCA. MJJ Timeline states that on August 7, 2006, Raymone Bain stated that "in what could be one of the biggest conspiracies in the entertainment industry, documents have been sent to Michael Jackson, and his representatives, which reveal a deliberate plan by some former attorneys as well as associates and advisors, to force Jackson into involuntary bankruptcy. The documents reveal that FORMER ATTORNEYS actively solicited other attorneys, vendors and creditors to 'join in a petition to place the client in involuntary bankruptcy.' ...Based on the timing of the events that have impacted his personal and professional life in recent years, he has long been suspicious that some of them that he entrusted to act on his behalf, and to advise him with respect to his personal and business affairs, may not have always acted in his best interests."
We have all heard that John Branca was fired by Michael Jackson in 2006. Although Branca stated that he left because Michael was surrounded by people who he did not care for or trust, the fact is that that Michael Jackson fired Branca and wrote him a letter demanding that he return all documents that pertained to Jackson. Jackson's letter was dated in 2003. Did Jackson finally have the evidence against John Branca that he needed? And to be sure, Lopez was aware of all that was going on regarding Michael Jackson, whether it was Alwaleed, Branca or other seedy characters that surrounded him.
The real question here is: Did Peter Lopez fall silent of his own doing or did someone feel the need to do it for him? Listen to that 911 tape, and you tell me. Below is a link to the video of Peter Lopez, in which he says that the Michael Jackson investigation was to be solved "very soon" from August of 2009.
<!-- m -->http://http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz0L0tzfC5E (http://http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz0L0tzfC5E)<!-- m -->
What did he know???? To be continued......RIP Peter Lopez...I hope you and Michael are together and having a wonderful time.
<!-- m -->http://mjandjustice4some.blogspot.com/2 ... urder.html (http://mjandjustice4some.blogspot.com/2010/06/peter-lopez-suicide-or-murder.html)<!-- m -->
-
In other words, purpose # 5 is to connect the dots. Who benefits: we because the more dots we have connected, the more sleep we get which hopefully in my case will mean less grey hairs and the magical disappearance of the sacks under my eyes.
<!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> I can carry groceries in my bags <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
Great post Souza!
With L.O.V.E. Always.
-
The lack of media info and blanket of silence around the Peter Lopez suicide seems to point us in the direction of sting court as opposed to hoax court. Thanks for this reminder Paula.
-
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sWhtPGr0u08/TH2xJNnCWBI/AAAAAAAAAEw/mbGBklXIcdw/s1600/ORGANIGRAMA01-1003.jpg)
Iluminatti is very broad, I found an organization is in Spanish but I translate what interests us.
religious sector:
World Council of Churches
National Council of Churches
World Parliament of Religions
Vatican / Jesuits, Franciscans, Freemasons
Christianity
groups and cults metaphysical new age (connie mendez, Alice Bailey, Helena Blavatsky Petrova, URI GELLER)
liberal Protestant denominations
Unitarian churches / university
Temple of Understanding
witnesses of Jehovah in drag
charles russell
Light of the World
Spiritualists
Evangelists
Hindu
Buddhist
-Banking sector and economic
among others, transnational corporations
valmart
gillete
Proter and gamble
G & E
philips
coca cola
chrysler
microsoft
SONY ..
sector "education"
in this sector are the mass media
-
(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g405/suspectprime/ShanainGhost.gif)
did someone say something about dust settling? only to stir it up again. <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ -->
-
3. Wether or not you like the subjects of the latest redirects, they have serious discussions in them, with many very good arguments defending the hoax theory. Yet people can say (and we know some people do) that MJ was murdered and that they want people to believe it's a hoax. Without debunking that, all the other discussions are worth nothing. So the ambulance pic is fake? So what? It's a cover-up for murder. So the FBI is in on it? So what, they are probably part of the murder plot. Etc. etc.. Purpose # 3: collect reasonable arguments to defend your hoax story even when people come up with the most difficult questions. No one can tell you that you are crazy if you can defend your story with arguments they can't debunk. Who benefits: we, we will make ourselves more believable and with us the non-believers that deep in their hearts hope that we are right. I have never convinced anyone with telling them MJ is alive because he was Dave on LKL, or because that 'old' man in Hollywood Tonight is very suspicious if you get what I mean.
You're right Souza, this will be a very valuable resource to us in the very near future... and logically I understand what TS is doing here, thanks for putting it in print, we all needed that...
...because, peacock is right-o about much of what s/he wrote, especially this part:
Some lose the plot every other day and forget that in all movies that are screened have to have a story to tell in the way the author envisions it. It has a beginning, middle and an ending.
Some say they can't be sure of this and that concerning this HOAX/ARG/DOCUMENTARY - let alone that the man is alive. Some of the older posters are still trying to figure out if he is alive? It is almost turning into some kind of draconian joke.
I have read some people here starting to DOUBT and possibly join TS in defending the murder theory...
:shock: :? :evil: crash/ you have got to be kidding me. Wrong board in my opinion and at the very least WRONG THREAD.
-
question has it been only fans who think there was a murder providing "evidence" of a murder? the family has really not said anything that you could say is evidence have they? so the murder theory people are not really operating with anything more than we have are they? it seems like what came out in court would only ad more confusion to the mix if you thought you had a murder senerio all figured out wouldn't it? i don't know if i am expressing what i want to ask very well.
-
TS you took Jermaine's side but you didn't give a murder theory with arguments. I am sure if you set your mind on it you can prove and convince us Michael was murdered and not by accident.
Is it possible that there were no threats to his life and he invented it all to be in the public attention?!
-
6. To find an answer for level 3, since we haven't reached a conclusion on that one. I have said before that I don't see TS answering on that one at all, because I do believe it is a sting and in that case, certainly when it's still on-going, no one is going to spill the beans on that one. But with debunking a murder theory and proving a hoax theory, we will have to look at the options for murder as well, to be able to debunk it. Who would want to kill MJ and why, might be the answer for level 3. So purpose # 6: find an answer to level 3. Who benefits: we, because it will help us even more to connect the dots.
Souza, thanks, that was a wonderfully logical, well thought out post. respect/
Just one query - I don't want to sound picky, but I want to be sure - did you intend to refer to 'level 3' in point 6 above, which was the 'what, if anything, went in the ambulance to hospital' level? Or did you mean 'level 4' which was about 'sting/hoax court'?
-
question has it been only fans who think there was a murder providing "evidence" of a murder? the family has really not said anything that you could say is evidence have they? so the murder theory people are not really operating with anything more than we have are they? it seems like what came out in court would only ad more confusion to the mix if you thought you had a murder senerio all figured out wouldn't it? i don't know if i am expressing what i want to ask very well.
Suspicious - I got what you were asking. A helleva lot of proof would have to be given if anyone is willing to go into the murder theory. Atleast I think that's what your saying anyway.
-
3. Wether or not you like the subjects of the latest redirects, they have serious discussions in them, with many very good arguments defending the hoax theory. Yet people can say (and we know some people do) that MJ was murdered and that they want people to believe it's a hoax. Without debunking that, all the other discussions are worth nothing. So the ambulance pic is fake? So what? It's a cover-up for murder. So the FBI is in on it? So what, they are probably part of the murder plot. Etc. etc.. Purpose # 3: collect reasonable arguments to defend your hoax story even when people come up with the most difficult questions. No one can tell you that you are crazy if you can defend your story with arguments they can't debunk. Who benefits: we, we will make ourselves more believable and with us the non-believers that deep in their hearts hope that we are right. I have never convinced anyone with telling them MJ is alive because he was Dave on LKL, or because that 'old' man in Hollywood Tonight is very suspicious if you get what I mean.
And therein lies a big part of the problem I think. There is no single piece of 'evidence' that is convincing on it's own. It's only the accumulation of many, many 'strange' bits and pieces that build up the hoax theory.
I take your point Souza, that most have been concocting murder theories of their own on this thread, rather than bringing evidence to support their hoax theories. I doubt TS will post again here until we come up with something he can try to debunk!
I doubt anyone has the time to do the whole lot afraid/ so what if I suggest I start the ball rolling and we all add just one piece of the puzzle.
Ok here goes:
Just because it's the first thing that came into my mind:
No RIP in TII - furthermore no mention in the text or speech in the film, of MJ having died. I expected a RIP out of respect. It's absence leaves the film as a legitimate piece of work for ever (i.e. even after his hoax is revealed).
I wondered about the use of the term 'Michael Jackson's Estate' in the credits but discovered 'estate' does not only apply after death:
"An estate is the net worth of a person at any point in time. It is the sum of a person's assets - legal rights, interests and entitlements to property of any kind - less all liabilities at that time. The issue is of special legal significance on a question of bankruptcy and death of the person."
I hope others will add their own puzzle pieces!
-
Scorpionchik wrote: Do, don't take personal. I am just analysing the article. First I want to clear up that I do not care who TS is.
To me he/she is not more than any other member here with mistakes & uncertainty in its theories as we all have.
I participate in analysys/consideration of cons and pros of hoax and murder theories as everyone else for myself and all fellow members & guests, not because I follow levels. We all want the truth. To be honest, this article seems total nonsense to me as I already commented about contradictions of the story above. Finally, as long as Michael is alive, I don't care what is behind, we will figure THAT out later. Because whoever does whatever, there is no 100% guarantee in the success and goal achievement anyway. Then question arises, is it worth it?
Hi Scorpionchik, after a good night sleep I have to say to you that you are absolutely right. I guess I was in a negative mood last night :oops: Like I said in my post, I don't believe in those stories, but was trying to look at it from a different angle. What was I thinking to waver from my believe???!!! Everything what is happening during this years, certainly happens with/for a reason, so I'll stick with you guys, we DO NOT give up, THIS IS A HOAX!!
About TS, I haven't read all of his/her posts so I'm more of a bystander, and that's why I sometimes wonder who he/she really is. To me, he/she is certainly more than any other member, because he/she has a lot of followers (and no other member on this board has 'followers' mmmmm, OK not true, there is also a front/back and others that were kicked out eventually) and I feel that TS kind of 'leads the pact', people are really elated with another redirect or update. TS is the one that members intensively want to follow and TS' posts are intensively read, and that's why I wonder sometimes about his/her identity. I don't want my fellowmembers and myself to be mislead (that happened before), so maybe that's why I'm not an avid reader of his/her posts, I want to stay objective. If TS' intentions are good (and I kind of believe they are) than I would like to have a little more proof about what he/she is from Michael (relative, friend etc.) I know it's difficult to prove on the internet, but come on TS, you can give it a try!!
-
TS --I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead.
So it’s going to be like we are talking to Jermaine, who is going to constantly confirm that MJ is dead and that hoaxers should accept it. fresse/
TS --However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.
Since so much information about MJ’s “murder” and also MJ’s “death hoax” is openly available on the internet, there is no way that the Illuminati could be in ignorance or fooled. If there is some way that MJ has outthought them, we would not know about it, and there would certainly be no leaks or “slip-ups” or clues given by family or TMZ, etc. So if Jermaine is trying to convince them MJ is dead, does he think his slip-ups would go unnoticed? I mean this sounds like a scary deadly game to be playing if it’s for real. If it was my sister or brother’s life I was defending by lies you can be sure I would be very serious, scared, and careful about every word. MJ’s speech in 2002 about Matolla and Sony where he says he would/has out-thought them, is also freely available on the internet for them to watch. Should that not be in some top-secret classified MJ file. It’s basically a taunt/challenge for them to try to out-think him back. And here we find that TS is again getting our focus on how MJ out-smarted them, when we know full well there are dozens of visitors here every day, some of who could be them.
Curls, you are suggesting we start another list of reasons we believe MJ’s alive, for the umpteenth time and thread. Hasn’t TS perused some of those threads. I know repetition is a good teaching tool but…
Curls --And therein lies a big part of the problem I think. There is no single piece of 'evidence' that is convincing on it's own. It's only the accumulation of many, many 'strange' bits and pieces that build up the hoax theory.
None of this would stand up in a court of law as evidence. Souza has done a wonderful job cataloguing and organizing these lists. Could there be something different that TS wants from us? typing/ bounce/
TS --In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want.
So if TS is going to try to debunk all the thousands of bits of “evidence” (just looking at Souza’s list) this is going to be a long thread (compete with the Visions thread in number of pages). errrr
When my family asks me why I think he’s alive, I simply say because of the hundreds/thousands of clues, oddities, slip-ups, things MJ as said in his lyrics, and interviews and on and on. I say, let me show you just a couple of examples. Then they usually say, well that’s just a coincidence and could be this and this, and then they loose interest and don’t want to hear any more. Then they start saying what they think and it’s always things they’ve heard in the media. So it just goes no where every time. argue/
Also this level topic is too broad. The other 4 levels were all very specific focused on one small aspect of the hoax, and in fact people complained that it was too focused such as on the leaf pattern. :lol:
There is one fact that I shared with someone at work that really got her attention and almost instantly thinking there might be something to the hoax. That is that there were exactly 9282 days between Michael Jackson's birth in August 29, 1958, to the Pepsi incident on January 27, 1984, and exactly 9282 days between that event and June 25, 2009. And each of these sides add to 21, which is 777. I even counted them myself to make sure. (It's pretty solid unless MJ birthday is false/created.) mj_bad/ How will "Jermaine" debunk that? respect/
http://seeingclues.blogspot.com/2010/03/9282-days.html (http://seeingclues.blogspot.com/2010/03/9282-days.html)
-
The TS post's are a not so easy for me because i don't understand all of it...can someone give me a clue to a good translater ?
I have some thoughts...
If Michael was murdered by someone, the funeral would be in a logical believable way...no clues at all. No doubts.
He was dead and all was understandable.
BUT from the first day on there are clues...everyone who think a little bit would see that there is something weird going on !
If that was the begining of a sting operation, Michael and the team around the hoax wanted that ????????? began surching after him. They want that Michael will be surched. It's very dangerous if it's so, but that was the only reason for all this clues. They wait that ?????? makes mistakes and they can catch ???????
Too much contradictions.
Remember the coroner who wrapped the fingerprints from the coroner van. The whole helicopter flight....i think on a different day, not the 25.06. !
Nothing of that was a normal procedure.
A blind man saw that there was something wrong ! Why shoud they do that when they have fear that someone kills Michael ? When he have to save his life with a hoax ? He would do it with a believeable hoax, not in that way !
LAPD Chief Bratton, knows Thomas Mesereoux, quiet his job after the funeral and go to a private security....coincidence ?
Someone said there are security guards at Neverland with bulletproof jacket....for what ?
I don't know the US legal system, but i looks like they protect Michael and his family.
So far i know are the kids always in the US...where they could be protect. No vacation outsite the US.
They leave Hayvenhurst and they can be everywhere. The pics are looking staged.
But who is ?????
Warner Bros. could be in the hoax with TMZ. Sony with the missing RIP in TII.
The Music Industrie against Illuminati ?
Can me it's all stupid thoughts....i no nothing about the music industrie and there rules and nothing about the legal system in the US and we will never know realy the backgrounds.
Annother weird point.
Janet was in Germany, in Berlin last week. She was some days here with 30 men , much bodyguards for one concert with 3000 visitors. She needs much protection ! Why ? How much money can you deserve from 3000 fans in one week with 30 men in a first class hotel ? Not that much...
The family seams to be extrem protected and there must be a serious reason.
I hope that everything will have a happy end and all are save ! God bless you ! ILYM !
-
Great post Souza, but I think some are still missing my point. It is that TS is not helping the ones that hope MJ is alive. What some have posted here has already been posted over and over. There have been people trying to tie this thing into the murder theory from the beginning. Some truly believe it is a possiblity. I don't, so I won't discuss it. I never have. It's not positive - and that is what I'm about. I've only tried to remind some of this or that as it pertains to why I KNOW that MJ is alive.
OK, look at it like this. Someone already said that this thread will go to thirty pages. After that, where will we be? Seriously. Some have already pointed out that they have no proof of this or that. And guess what, the proof won't come from this board. They won't be consulting anyone on this board, so how can anyone going back and forth (and that is exactly what is happening) in this thread will help anything? Again, I do understand what you posted Souza. It is very thought provoking, but all it does in the long run is to keep people adding and piling onto what has already been speculated about.
There may be a court date, but it will be a hoax court day. Some think MJ will BAM this year, and he might but he will BAM by next year if not. I truly and strongly believe that. To me, this is where the main focus should be. I don't mean when. I mean how and why he took such a drastic and sad way to do it. Yes, it was sad to hear that he may have passed, but to me ever since I felt that he could have pulled this off - and when I finally truly believed in my heart that he did. I was elated and stayed positive. I never faltered. I think we should be concentrating on the postitive. Because if we go this route concentrating on the negative, the door is going to be left closed on all of the awakening messages that I'm sure MJ wants people to look forward to. We should still be rejoicing every chance we get that MJ is alive and is well, and not delighting in the fact that we proved it (which we truly can't to most). We should be able to feel that his life is not in danger - and that he is documenting his story/expose in the way he feels is best.
It is what it is, And we'll NEVER know why MJ did this totally. It is enough for me just to know that he did it. No one murdered MJ or tried to kill him leading up to 6-25-09. He will epose what and who he wants to with this hoax. He still show that at one point there were ones trying to drive him insane, drug him, mind control him, et al, but he out thought them, sought protection from God, and is living to tell his story and to continue sharing all of his gifts. Now to me that's a big part of the BAM. He has already BAMMED in that regard.
I'm just glad he is happy. He's Awakened to full consciousness and he wants us all to join him in my estimation. How can we do that with a dead corpse? Because no matter in the way one might cross your t's and dot your i's, the ones new to the idea will be still be "stuck in the middle", in 3-D. I think MJ = HOPE and UNITY. I bet for the next show he does with his brother, it will be titled UNITY.
-
Curls, you are suggesting we start another list of reasons we believe MJ’s alive, for the umpteenth time and thread. Hasn’t TS perused some of those threads. I know repetition is a good teaching tool but…
TS --In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want.
So if TS is going to try to debunk all the thousands of bits of “evidence” (just looking at Souza’s list) this is going to be a long thread. errrr
There is one fact that I shared with someone at work that really got her attention and almost instantly thinking there might be something to the hoax. That is that there were exactly 9282 days between Michael Jackson's birth in August 29, 1958, to the Pepsi incident on January 27, 1984, and exactly 9282 days between that event and June 25, 2009. And each of these sides add to 21, which is 777. I even counted them myself to make sure. (It's pretty solid unless MJ birthday is false/created.) mj_bad/ How will "Jermaine" debunk that? respect/
http://seeingclues.blogspot.com/2010/03/9282-days.html (http://seeingclues.blogspot.com/2010/03/9282-days.html)
@MJonmind, well, what I put in bold; that's his problem isn't it?!! afraid/
My suggestion was merely an attempt to follow what TS asked us to do in this thread: "you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory".
I can see this could be a way of weeding out the less convincing/false bits and leaving only the solid 'facts' (if such things exist!).
Anyway thanks for adding your 9282 fact!
-
I think Michael was in danger, my post have been as a way of presenting the possible identity of this danger, I still believe that Michael is vivo. Well, TS to convince me otherwise :lol:
-
independently of the opinion that some people may have of Pearl Jr, I think this an important test of the hoax
(Not sure if someone already public)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNDZmyluX8&[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... WNDZmyluX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JWNDZmyluX8)
-
TheMoonIsDancing said:
"If someone wanted MJ dead, they picked one hell of a time to do it! why not sooner, why not later after the concerts when he had more money to take?"
I have thought this for a very long time..very good point Moon! The timing is all off for a murder theory. Seems like much of this hoax is centered around timing to begin with. I can see where the average person would not blink at reports of a frail, drug-dependent MJ meeting his demise at the hands of "personal doctor". It's the perfect setting for the masses to believe. However, upon a closer look things don't add up. That is where we come in....hoaxies, hoaxers, hoax family...whatever we are....we are it. The timing is, in fact, the key to it all. If someone was out to get MIchael, I would think sometime before the O2 announcement would have been the best choice. He was basically out of the spotlight. The public would have just seen it has another, "poor Michael" story. They could probably could have pulled off without much questioning....look at Lady Di. Do you truly think she was in an accident at the hands of a drunk driver? If this was murder, I would think the timing would be different....probably before the O2 announcement.
If someone found out about the hoax plans, perhaps they could pull off the actual timing of the demise itself. However, there are numerous things dealing with dates, times, references that nobody could put into place but MJ himself. Signing the will exactly 7 years to the date of the memorial. Who would know? Lawyers...yes. But they wouldn't necessarily know all the other numerology associated with this. I am interested in thinking about how Michael kept track (is keeping track) of everything. Surely he couldn't use a computer....a hack would be too dangerous. Handwritten notes could be stolen. How is he keeping it all straight? Was TMZ brought in early to help navigate the flow of information/clues? How are they being communicated with? If Michael is behind it all...which I think he is.....he must be well covered through a maze of information. I don't see Harvey getting a text saying, "...run "X" story with these capital letters......"
Also, what is up with the fake $1,000,000 bill? Why post that TS? Are we looking for some deep meaning around the bill....I don't think so. However, TS you have proven you don't post things just for the heck of it.
-Whitney Houston had a song called Million Dollar Bill (generally about love and how you feel about it....catchy, I give it an 8.5, good to dance to!).
-The currency is obviously fake....like this death? Like the hoax? Like what?
-There are lots of interesting illuminati/freemason signs on the U.S. bill....maybe a reference to that?
- Did you really just post a picture of it for the sake of saying, "that's the multi-million dollar question" ?
From TS Update #4d:
"Now get ready for the murder-theory destroying question: if they planned a murder to look like a hoax, what is the likelihood that they could http://succeed in convincing the http://family that MJ faked his death???????"
Link:
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194)
Michael has stated more than once, "....family comes first...." I truly do not believe the family would do any harm to Michael....never in a "million" years. Whoever would have planned this, "murder" could never convince the family of a hoaxed death. So we are left with just that....a hoax-looking murder of a theory.
TS asked how solid our hoax evidence is. It's solid enough to keep going. Otherwise, we would have given up a long time ago. The numerology is a strong contender for belief. Take a look at TS's $999 Reward:
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=14058&p=234443&hilit=coincidence+test#p234443 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=14058&p=234443&hilit=coincidence+test#p234443)
I said earlier: timing is everything. The numbers don't lie..they are in black and white. The slip-up clues, like Jermaine's famous airport slip.....could just be an unintentional goof up. The paintings, the posters, the flowers...all could be taken as fantasy-minded thought. However, numbers that add up the same way each time......no breaking that. How do you explain them......all coincidences? Even those who say coincidences exist have to wonder about this many. Nobody, dies with THIS MANY coincidences....not even dear MJ. If it was murder, it was, "murder by numbers". The illuminati couldn't have dreamt this up if they tried.
So, TS...stay on the side of Jermaine for awhile. There is no hoax, MJ is really, "you know what". You can cry murder all you want. I don't believe it. When you are done crying, come back for a hug! Nothin' but love TS......
I started this post a few days ago, lol. Sometimes the words just don't flow out as fast as I'd like!
Blessings to you all!
-
I think there could have been an attempted murder and hopefully they foiled the plan.
The more I think of that and what Jermaine has said so far, the more I think the Sheikhs etc were behind it.
[highlight=#ff4080:2sa6oqcz]Brother Jermaine says that “if Michael would have embraced Islam he would still be here today,”[/highlight:2sa6oqcz]
That to me is a big clue. For me it is a very veiled indirect statement of who could be involved. Maybe there was a real terrorist threat, and yes the bigger Michael got, the bigger target he would become. We all know how he narrowly missed it in 2001, could he have narrowly missed it in 2009 too?
-
independently of the opinion that some people may have of Pearl Jr, I think this an important test of the hoax
(Not sure if someone already public)
[BBvideo 425,350:2jiiu37e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNDZmyluX8&[/BBvideo:2jiiu37e]
I saw this on the other site, and since I haven't followed the thread on her, I had a question that no one has responded to on the other thread. Has she ever given credit to every other hoax member that's out here? I know that she didn't come up with all of that on her own (just from what I saw on this video). The whole Cris Angel thing? Members talked about that from the very beginning. Way before she came along.
Totally off topic I just thought I'd ask, if anyone can answer.
Many thanks!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... WNDZmyluX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JWNDZmyluX8)
-
TheMoonIsDancing said:
"If someone wanted MJ dead, they picked one hell of a time to do it! why not sooner, why not later after the concerts when he had more money to take?"
I have thought this for a very long time..very good point Moon! The timing is all off for a murder theory. Seems like much of this hoax is centered around timing to begin with. I can see where the average person would not blink at reports of a frail, drug-dependent MJ meeting his demise at the hands of "personal doctor". It's the perfect setting for the masses to believe. However, upon a closer look things don't add up. That is where we come in....hoaxies, hoaxers, hoax family...whatever we are....we are it. The timing is, in fact, the key to it all. If someone was out to get MIchael, I would think sometime before the O2 announcement would have been the best choice. He was basically out of the spotlight. The public would have just seen it has another, "poor Michael" story. They could probably could have pulled off without much questioning....look at Lady Di. Do you truly think she was in an accident at the hands of a drunk driver? If this was murder, I would think the timing would be different....probably before the O2 announcement.
If someone found out about the hoax plans, perhaps they could pull off the actual timing of the demise itself. However, there are numerous things dealing with dates, times, references that nobody could put into place but MJ himself. Signing the will exactly 7 years to the date of the memorial. Who would know? Lawyers...yes. But they wouldn't necessarily know all the other numerology associated with this. I am interested in thinking about how Michael kept track (is keeping track) of everything. Surely he couldn't use a computer....a hack would be too dangerous. Handwritten notes could be stolen. How is he keeping it all straight? Was TMZ brought in early to help navigate the flow of information/clues? How are they being communicated with? If Michael is behind it all...which I think he is.....he must be well covered through a maze of information. I don't see Harvey getting a text saying, "...run "X" story with these capital letters......"
Also, what is up with the fake $1,000,000 bill? Why post that TS? Are we looking for some deep meaning around the bill....I don't think so. However, TS you have proven you don't post things just for the heck of it.
-Whitney Houston had a song called Million Dollar Bill (generally about love and how you feel about it....catchy, I give it an 8.5, good to dance to!).
-The currency is obviously fake....like this death? Like the hoax? Like what?
-There are lots of interesting illuminati/freemason signs on the U.S. bill....maybe a reference to that?
- Did you really just post a picture of it for the sake of saying, "that's the multi-million dollar question" ?
From TS Update #4d:
"Now get ready for the murder-theory destroying question: if they planned a murder to look like a hoax, what is the likelihood that they could http://succeed in convincing the http://family that MJ faked his death???????"
Link:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/ ... 125&t=7194 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194)
Michael has stated more than once, "....family comes first...." I truly do not believe the family would do any harm to Michael....never in a "million" years. Whoever would have planned this, "murder" could never convince the family of a hoaxed death. So we are left with just that....a hoax-looking murder of a theory.
TS asked how solid our hoax evidence is. It's solid enough to keep going. Otherwise, we would have given up a long time ago. The numerology is a strong contender for belief. Take a look at TS's $999 Reward:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/ ... st#p234443 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=14058&p=234443&hilit=coincidence+test#p234443)
I said earlier: timing is everything. The numbers don't lie..they are in black and white. The slip-up clues, like Jermaine's famous airport slip.....could just be an unintentional goof up. The paintings, the posters, the flowers...all could be taken as fantasy-minded thought. However, numbers that add up the same way each time......no breaking that. How do you explain them......all coincidences? Even those who say coincidences exist have to wonder about this many. Nobody, dies with THIS MANY coincidences....not even dear MJ. If it was murder, it was, "murder by numbers". The illuminati couldn't have dreamt this up if they tried.
So, TS...stay on the side of Jermaine for awhile. There is no hoax, MJ is really, "you know what". You can cry murder all you want. I don't believe it. When you are done crying, come back for a hug! Nothin' but love TS......
I started this post a few days ago, lol. Sometimes the words just don't flow out as fast as I'd like!
Blessings to you all!
I have to agree with you! I've tried saying the same thing but my way with words come and go. Not only that but I have only been able to read for literally MONTHS so now I'm trying to get back into actually interacting with everyone again. Anyway....
I have to agree with you about the timing and briefly touched on it in one of my post. I also think that if there were a murder in the making it would make more sense to follow through with it when Michael wasn't in the spotlight.
-
Just came in to say hi, as I don't feel like I have something important to say on this topic. Collections of clues - we had before.
I wish I could "squeeze" the truth out of that Dave Dave :evil: ....and all my questions would be answered bow/
Michael ...where are you :( ?
-
I have nothing to add either, but I think the pic put up by TS means something...the meaning could be that this murder theory is faker than a million dollar bill...also if TS said he would give points of the murder theory then we debunk it, wouldn't that give us solid theory to the hoax?
-
Well, I tried. Seems like most don't want to go along with TS on this one.
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
-
Well, I tried. Seems like most don't want to go along with TS on this one.
I'm willing to work with you on your goal, I'm just thinking ... :roll: :?:
-
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
Yeah it would be easier except knowledge is a curse and without a thorough brain washing I will go to my grave a believer.
I know he's alive, I don't doubt that even on my lowest days. I do doubt wtf we are doing here though.
I do understand what TS is doing. I don't understand what MJ is doing. I don't understand why this all must STILL be so cryptic. No one believes us. MJ could come to us and say, hi, it's me, and his secret would still be safe. Let's say he does that and we all run off and tell our friends, MJ is alive, he came to us online! No one would believe us, our credibility is shot thanks to 2 years of keeping the faith here. We sound like crazy people. The secret is safe. So why continue with the cryptic stuff?
-
TheMoonIsDancing said:
"If someone wanted MJ dead, they picked one hell of a time to do it! why not sooner, why not later after the concerts when he had more money to take?"
I have thought this for a very long time..very good point Moon! The timing is all off for a murder theory. Seems like much of this hoax is centered around timing to begin with. I can see where the average person would not blink at reports of a frail, drug-dependent MJ meeting his demise at the hands of "personal doctor". It's the perfect setting for the masses to believe. However, upon a closer look things don't add up. That is where we come in....hoaxies, hoaxers, hoax family...whatever we are....we are it. The timing is, in fact, the key to it all. If someone was out to get MIchael, I would think sometime before the O2 announcement would have been the best choice. He was basically out of the spotlight. The public would have just seen it has another, "poor Michael" story. They could probably could have pulled off without much questioning....look at Lady Di. Do you truly think she was in an accident at the hands of a drunk driver? If this was murder, I would think the timing would be different....probably before the O2 announcement.
If someone found out about the hoax plans, perhaps they could pull off the actual timing of the demise itself. However, there are numerous things dealing with dates, times, references that nobody could put into place but MJ himself. Signing the will exactly 7 years to the date of the memorial. Who would know? Lawyers...yes. But they wouldn't necessarily know all the other numerology associated with this. I am interested in thinking about how Michael kept track (is keeping track) of everything. Surely he couldn't use a computer....a hack would be too dangerous. Handwritten notes could be stolen. How is he keeping it all straight? Was TMZ brought in early to help navigate the flow of information/clues? How are they being communicated with? If Michael is behind it all...which I think he is.....he must be well covered through a maze of information. I don't see Harvey getting a text saying, "...run "X" story with these capital letters......"
Also, what is up with the fake $1,000,000 bill? Why post that TS? Are we looking for some deep meaning around the bill....I don't think so. However, TS you have proven you don't post things just for the heck of it.
-Whitney Houston had a song called Million Dollar Bill (generally about love and how you feel about it....catchy, I give it an 8.5, good to dance to!).
-The currency is obviously fake....like this death? Like the hoax? Like what?
-There are lots of interesting illuminati/freemason signs on the U.S. bill....maybe a reference to that?
- Did you really just post a picture of it for the sake of saying, "that's the multi-million dollar question" ?
From TS Update #4d:
"Now get ready for the murder-theory destroying question: if they planned a murder to look like a hoax, what is the likelihood that they could http://succeed in convincing the http://family that MJ faked his death???????"
Link:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/ ... 125&t=7194 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194)
Michael has stated more than once, "....family comes first...." I truly do not believe the family would do any harm to Michael....never in a "million" years. Whoever would have planned this, "murder" could never convince the family of a hoaxed death. So we are left with just that....a hoax-looking murder of a theory.
TS asked how solid our hoax evidence is. It's solid enough to keep going. Otherwise, we would have given up a long time ago. The numerology is a strong contender for belief. Take a look at TS's $999 Reward:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/ ... st#p234443 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=14058&p=234443&hilit=coincidence+test#p234443)
I said earlier: timing is everything. The numbers don't lie..they are in black and white. The slip-up clues, like Jermaine's famous airport slip.....could just be an unintentional goof up. The paintings, the posters, the flowers...all could be taken as fantasy-minded thought. However, numbers that add up the same way each time......no breaking that. How do you explain them......all coincidences? Even those who say coincidences exist have to wonder about this many. Nobody, dies with THIS MANY coincidences....not even dear MJ. If it was murder, it was, "murder by numbers". The illuminati couldn't have dreamt this up if they tried.
So, TS...stay on the side of Jermaine for awhile. There is no hoax, MJ is really, "you know what". You can cry murder all you want. I don't believe it. When you are done crying, come back for a hug! Nothin' but love TS......
I started this post a few days ago, lol. Sometimes the words just don't flow out as fast as I'd like!
Blessings to you all!
Great post, Wishingstar!!!!
I really love it. Sometimes I wonder how people still believe that MJ is dead after all these clues that he left behind! confused/
Wishingstar wrote:
"So, TS...stay on the side of Jermaine for awhile. There is no hoax, MJ is really, "you know what". You can cry murder all you want. I don't believe it. When you are done crying, come back for a hug! Nothin' but love TS......"
So TS are you ready for the hugs?????? lol
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
To me it is opposit. If I have a logical explanation of an incident, strong, and valid facts/proof of the theory to believe Michael is alive, I don't care whether or not he will be back, as long as he is happy out there in freedom, I am happy too.
As a matter of fact, from the moment wrongful death lawsuit was filed by Katherine, I was confident that if MJ is alive, he is no coming back. Then we have been continuosly analysing murder vs hoax, debunking clues, this and that, logically we have more obvious facts that Michael is alive than dead. I would say beyond reasonable doubt Michael was not killed intentionally because facts & motives are weak for any of dudes in consideration for murder. Accidental dead? Doubt so, after all Conrad is a doctor (good or bad) who could preform CPR, he did not do it because there was no need; he did not call 911 on time, because there was no need, he did not sign DC because no need, etc. Michael would not allow anyone to administer him propofol at home realizing that it is dangerous for him and kids who will be left without parents if something happens to him. And finally FAMILY who constantly claims MJ was killed, lives happy without concern why Conrad is charged with INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER and no one else undergo the investigation for murder. As I explained earlier here,there is a big difference between murder and involuntary manslaughter charges.
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
[highlight=#bf00bf:295js007]Money bill usually put Peoples faces on it After they Extremely National achievement during lifetime and After they are deceased. That may give us two answers- 1. Michael IS working for National and government changes GLOBALLY- I have NEVER forget and always wondering about importance of his Birthday cake on aug.29 2001 in NASDAQ head-quoter opening in Times Square!!@@ respect/ bow/
2. Is he Murdered??
NOOOOH!! Because U CANT BAY SILENCE OF BLACK HUMAN-RIGHTS ACTIVISTS As Are Al Sharpton, Jessi Jackson and so on. IF that was murdering - NO ONE OF THEM WILL BE BEHAVING AS NOTHING HAPPENED- No Conspiracy check even after Family cry out about that on every corner?? :shock:
Even for Blind eye case of MJ vanishing is Obvious- Murder or Alive![/highlight:295js007]
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/conrad-murray-mj-doctor.jpg)[/quote]
Now about that pictures - Illuminati chain look extremely photo-shopped for me - anyone check that, who more computer savvy. Please?
My feeeling - doctor M. Is agent( even if he was planted onto Illuminati for that case) and wl be hailed as a hero when all that operation get done.
Have Blessed day everyone - Especially Michael bearhug and Take Care beerchug
xx
-
What's up with this no come back stuff again? You might as well believe he's dead.
He will be back if he's alive, I just don't understand what's taking him so long :(
And who are you TS? For how long will you keep this mystery? Are you Michael? Are you Michael's voice?
Who gave you the TIAI idea? Everything gravitates around this site, inlcuding TMZ, and there's a big mess in my head crash/
-
Let's not block out the truth because of the limits of our possibilities to interpret the meaning of things....the end result is that we will stay confined in these interpretations .... which are not necessarily the truth. Okay I stop here.
I understand that these levels are useful for Michel's safety = for when he returns. Or there would be no point. The fact that people like us figured out it was a hoax is important. Without a comeback the hoax makes no sense at all (something so carefully planned and since so long to end up with Michael hiding forever? No way) ... and this comeback has to be done at the right moment, the perfect moment or it's ruined. Like the day of "death" had to be at the right moment.
I understand that certain things have to be achieved before Michael can come back, so he is not going to hasten his return just to please us....as hard as it can appear we must understand that and really show patience and understanding. What is at stake is too important so let's not make it more difficult. I always keep in mind Michael's safety and it explains a lot in terms of why are things so cryptic and not laid out with full clarity. For me this is like security measures, it's a thin line that can't be crossed....like a tightrope walking, TS or any other informer can't say too much (nor not enough?) ....just what's necessary for the walking down the yellow brick road can be done carefully. We all want this hoax to end with a Victory, no? So please let's just be patient. I know we already have been but it's worth it and it's for Michael.
The bills just made me think of the Federal Reserve and how it is controlled by the dark side (or Illuminati)...so here we have bills with Michael on them....what does it mean? <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// --> That Michael controls the money? Which money? I also am thinking about the album cover of "Michael" where we see bills with Michael on them and they are burning? I have no clue how/if it connects, just throwing this here lol. I think in fact it is only one bill, the back and the front?
I agree the picture of Murray with that "mason" thing around his neck looks photo-shopped....maybe to make the enemy believe that they have won? Like a subterfuge you know?
@Gema....have you forgotten the coffee already? <!-- salbino/ -->albino/<!-- salbino/ -->
Keep the faith people. <!-- smj_dance/ -->mj_dance/<!-- smj_dance/ -->
-
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
Yeah it would be easier except knowledge is a curse and without a thorough brain washing I will go to my grave a believer.
I know he's alive, I don't doubt that even on my lowest days. I do doubt wtf we are doing here though.
I do understand what TS is doing. I don't understand what MJ is doing. I don't understand why this all must STILL be so cryptic. No one believes us. MJ could come to us and say, hi, it's me, and his secret would still be safe. Let's say he does that and we all run off and tell our friends, MJ is alive, he came to us online! No one would believe us, our credibility is shot thanks to 2 years of keeping the faith here. We sound like crazy people. The secret is safe. So why continue with the cryptic stuff?
That's exactly how I feel for a very long time now. Why does everything has to be so cryptic? When this is a game, a hide and seek, the greatest show on earth, then you can be cryptic. When this 'hiding/hoax' is for very serious reasons, then these cryptics 'games' feel inappropriate to me. And I don't feel like this is a game. And Bec, you are right, many people over here 'earn' a little more credit for being so committed and involved the past 2 years. Many of us have put their own lifes a little on hold, like if they are compelled to it. How great it would be if Michael himself talked to us and reassured us, if it was only for one time, for 10 seconds, I don't care, then we will be even more devoted, and we wouldn't have the feeling that all the time we are spending here, is in vain. Who would believe us anyway??? His secret is safe with us!
Sarahli wrote: The bills just made me think of the Federal Reserve and how it is controlled by the dark side (or Illuminati)...so here we have bills with Michael on them....what does it mean? That Michael controls the money? Which money? I also am thinking about the album cover of "Michael" where we see bills with Michael on them and they are burning? I have no clue how/if it connects, just throwing this here lol. I think in fact it is only one bill, the back and the front?
Only one bill, Michael is on the back and the front = Michael is BACK AND FRONT?!!! <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// --> <!-- s:mrgreen: -->:mrgreen:<!-- s:mrgreen: -->
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
[font=Century Gothic:6zsezgh0]I cannot help but fixate on the money. And, it's not due to greed like those blood sucking leeches that wanted something from MJ.....but because I truly think TS is giving us a hint by posting these pics here. At the end of the day it is all about $$$$ and by the looks of it (see pics) MJ appears IN CONTROL of the millions!!!! That is why we see him confidently smiling on the backside and appearing determined on the front side??????!!!! I sense a shift of some sort has occurred. Do you?????
I bet those blood sucking leeches he has always talked about are burning right now (or at least in the hot seat!) What did MJ say again in This Is It????? Let it burn????? Well, I agree, let 'em burn!!!!
Get 'em Michael![/font:6zsezgh0]
P.S. I also like the fact that Michael is "in the round" on the backside of the bill. If one is to think about that he may be gearing up to take center stage (no doubt he never left it)! Also, how many of you have seen regular bills featuring head shots on the backside? That is normally only reserved for the front side. This graphical representation is very interesting indeed! Hmmmmmm......makes you wonder, that is for certain!!!!
-
Sarahli brought up a good point when she asked 'which money', perhaps it's Michael that still control his money and what everything goes for. Just an opinion, still thinking about that one though.
I was also thinking about the wrongful death that someone mentioned earlier. I think it's just another process that has to be done. Even if nothing is done with it (which is what I think it will turn out to be). There are families all the time that go after doctors, murderers etc. for the wrongful death of their loved one. I would have been more surprised if they didn't go after Murray in that manner. IMO everything is planned out the way that it should be. We just have to be patient and wait.
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
So you believe that someone as enlightened as Michael, with the world fame to match, would never come back? You think he will die with his message? He will never give the world a 2nd chance all because people were lied to by a few select greedy and powerful people? You have your reasons to believe this, and I respect that. I was just wondering why you think someone like Michael Jackson who has the ability to bring true love back to the world, would keep it all to himself because people had tried to break him. I think he is stronger than that, and by not coming back he would show that he has been defeated and will stay dead to all of us. I don't buy that.
-
[font=cursive:1jgkplo2]Okay, I use to think Michael had just HAD IT, and was going to hide forever. But, logically, I don't think that could be done. Someone would narc him out for money along the road. Airline people, press, security. Someone in the next 40 years or so. Plus, to sneak forever to see his kids/family I just don't believe that. It would be harder than hiding from the paps the last 40 years, cuz before, he COULD be seen, just didn't want to all the time. If hiding forever, he could NEVER be spotted again. Even once. Yeah, we believe Elvis did that...but Elvis was mostly a USA star until death when he went global with records and movies. Michael couldn't hide anyplace. Even if he had his own island, he'd have to stay there forever, and if anyone went there, heaven forbid the press got ahold of the records of the flights.
Besides all that, what the heck is the whole purpose of a HOAX if he never returns? What is the reason for clues? What is the reason for any of this? He could just be "dead" and that's the end. If he's just dead, or gone forever, what about all these damn clues???
For me, murder wouldn't leave "come back" clues. Gone forever hiding wouldn't leave "come back clues". The only thing in all this that makes sense including a lot of his songs and words are...HOAX and for a hoax, someone is being fooled into thinking he's dead or gone. Otherwise, NO CLUES.[/font:1jgkplo2]
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either!
The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
Hello TS. I have seen this thread since it was first posted but I chose to stay quiet until now. I was working on my evidence pile and reading what others came up with. By the way I have the money you posted on my fridge and I have it facing with the backside being seen. I got mine at a little corner store last year after I found out about the hoax.
I believe that the picture was posted to be an image to go along with the million dollar statement. I find it amusing that it also has become a huge distraction to some people. I do not know if that was your intention but the result surely shows you something. You made your font so huge I could only change the color of text to highlight some things. <!-- sfresse/ -->fresse/<!-- sfresse/ -->
My next post is going to be long so I am forewarning people. <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
You did say anything we want we can bring into this thread...
Peace <!-- sbeerchug -->beerchug<!-- sbeerchug -->
-
Yeah it would be easier except knowledge is a curse and without a thorough brain washing I will go to my grave a believer.
I know he's alive, I don't doubt that even on my lowest days. I do doubt wtf we are doing here though.
I do understand what TS is doing. I don't understand what MJ is doing. I don't understand why this all must STILL be so cryptic. No one believes us. MJ could come to us and say, hi, it's me, and his secret would still be safe. Let's say he does that and we all run off and tell our friends, MJ is alive, he came to us online! No one would believe us, our credibility is shot thanks to 2 years of keeping the faith here. We sound like crazy people. The secret is safe. So why continue with the cryptic stuff?
Although I know that this is never going to happen, I wish he could show himself to us for a few seconds at least. That would end our pain. This has been a very long and hard journey for all of us and we are all very tired. But whatever happens and how long it takes, I know that there're people who will never let this go. I am one of them. I've been in this hoax for almost 2 years and I can not let it go before I see Michael healthy and happy with my own eyes. I do care for a comeback, yes absolutely I do because it is the only way to be SURE that he is fine. The day I see him, will be the day of such a huge relief. But before the BAM, I wish he did this favor to us who have been on this crazy ride for a long time and showed himself to us. But a question also appears in my mind. Would all of us believe that it is Michael that we see? I know for myself that I can recognize him no matter what but I see that some fans do not recognize him at all. I'm sure that there'll be some who would say that's not Michael but an impersonator. So showing himself would not be enough I guess, he needs to talk and probably sing for all of us to be sure. Just a short message would do it though.
I do not think that this would happen but still we should keep the faith. I know that it took longer than we expected but still we should remember why we are here and for who we are here. I'm sure that he didn't decide to look like a drug addict to the world if he left without a return. If he wasn't going to come back, he would have done an easier hoax and would not put himself into the bad light. He will be BACK. We should Keep the Faith and Believe&Trust Michael.
-
PureLove, if MJ only returns next year, he will be 3 and a half years older, so will he have changed enough for us to wonder if it's really him. Maybe he'll have gained some weight again like he has in the past. I can bet there's going to be millions of doubting Thomases who will need to see and hear him speaking, singing, dancing, writing and whatever else to proove its really him, and :oops: because they can't get enough of seeing him. :D
Im_convincedmjalive, I'm looking forward to your thorough list!
wishingstar
Also, what is up with the fake $1,000,000 bill? Why post that TS? Are we looking for some deep meaning around the bill....I don't think so. However, TS you have proven you don't post things just for the heck of it.-Whitney Houston had a song called Million Dollar Bill (generally about love and how you feel about it....catchy, I give it an 8.5, good to dance to!).
-The currency is obviously fake....like this death? Like the hoax? Like what?
-There are lots of interesting illuminati/freemason signs on the U.S. bill....maybe a reference to that?
- Did you really just post a picture of it for the sake of saying, "that's the multi-million dollar question" ?
If the present currency is all produced, designed and mostly owned by the Illuminati/TPTB as they slowly have us indebted and enslaved, then maybe MJ has now or will have some influence. 666 to 999! :mrgreen:
(You know, I just thought of something. I'm so glad that this hoax adventure has been absolutely free for us. I know there must be many huge costs to lots of people, including the running of this site. bearhug These days what do you get for free? And of course there's loss of productivity because of being here maybe :( :roll: .)
skyways
2. Is he Murdered??
NOOOOH!! Because U CANT BAY SILENCE OF BLACK HUMAN-RIGHTS ACTIVISTS As Are Al Sharpton, Jessi Jackson and so on. IF that was murdering - NO ONE OF THEM WILL BE BEHAVING AS NOTHING HAPPENED- No Conspiracy check even after Family cry out about that on every corner??
If "murder", then black Murray was used as the fall guy to hide the reality of it being racially motivated. We haven't heard boo from any activists. Michael spoke a lot about how black musicians were treated in the industry.
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
Gema, when the tough gets going everyone takes the easy way out. You shouldn't you have to persevere. Michael is alive and he will come back when the time is right for him. It can be this July, next year, in 10 yrs I have no clue, I am as much in the obscure as you are. I will never give up, I have faith that he will come back. The only thing is, I will not be in this forum for ever either, I love all you guys, even if we bickered, sometimes bickering makes us stronger among eachother. Michael will not do like Elvis. Elvis is alive as well, but I think he has some restrictions to come back since he worked for the DEA. So Gema, and friends please do not give up on our Michael, it is not time to do so. If we do who will he come back to? We are his fans, and we are the only ones who believe in him. Blessings to all my hoax friends.
-
Michael Jackson Is Alive, He Has A Message.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Got3oZwAFJM&NR=1[/youtube]
Uploaded by jackieblue64 on May 14, 2010
Michael was sending messages long before many realized
Michael Jackson Is Alive This Is It Illuminati Signs and Symbols
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfQ2spJReo[/youtube]
Uploaded by jackieblue64 on May 14, 2010
From the opening scene to the ending credits, THIS IS IT was made for the purpose of getting a message out.
I am starting with the Illuminati and providing some sources for those who want to educate themselves about this group. I have gone to the books (links provided below) as resources that I believe are more accurate than what most people continue to spread as if that is the right information. The books written are from long ago and were written by those who know the inside of these fraternal orders and their history. I believe there is alot of info being spread now that has been started by disinformation agents.
This is the link for the books. There is alot more books to explore on the website.
<!-- m -->http://knowledgefiles.com/category/cate ... societies/ (http://knowledgefiles.com/category/categories/secret-societies/)<!-- m -->
I am not saying that everything written on the following links are the absolute truth but there is more truth than not. The balance of knowing truth from fiction is that I have investigated beyond just one source.
<!-- m -->http://www.illuminati-news.com/shadow-gov.htm (http://www.illuminati-news.com/shadow-gov.htm)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... ations.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_illuminatirevelations.htm)<!-- m -->
This is my opinion so please no one get on me about whether I am right or wrong.
The phrase “Keep your friends close but your enemies closer” is more than just a cliché phrase. Literally when you are plotting an escape/revenge your sleeping with the enemy in order to learn their plans. While you are learning their plans/moves you are smiling in their face and doing what it takes for them to think you’re a part of their group. You make sure they think they are one step ahead of you all the while you are gaining steps beyond them. This is outthinking your enemy. This is what it is like to be a smooth criminal. It does take some doublethink.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink)<!-- m -->
According to the novel, doublethink is:
“ To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink. ”
“ The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth. ”
MJ had/has a huge advantage when it comes to outthinking his enemies. First he is an artist with a great imagination. He is very learned in book knowledge and regardless of what the majority of people think he was not as naive as he wanted people to think. This part was a rouge. This part was necessary to be able to outthink his enemies. When he gave off the impression that he was a drug addict with health problems and always saying someone is out to get me (making himself look crazy/paranoid) it was also a necessary part of the plan. He has now given them a thought of he is falling apart; what could he do now? He is weak. He is no longer a threat to us.
Putting the threat out in the public arena protects him because now people know. If anything was to happen to him or his kids, it is on record that MJ has told us all he was being threatened. He told a few people names of those who wanted him dead. Those people have said on record to the public they know the names. The enemy now knows that if anything happens to the kids or his family that they will be named publicly and there will be a huge uproar.
MJ had/has a huge advantage over his enemies because he was apart of their world for more than half of his life. Starting out in the industry at a young age he was able to absorb and study the game being played. He understands the enemies mind because he was sleeping with the enemy. He has used their own thoughts against them. (I do not mean sleeping with the enemy in a sexual way, it is a phrase.)
“They really thought that my mind was on music and dancing”[/b]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW1T1DZdWrA[/youtube]
Uploaded by MJEUROPE on Jun 25, 2008
Michael Jackson addresses the fans at the Killer Thriller Party in London
For the most part I checked links but I wasn't able to check all of them. If some don't work it has been a long time since they were posted. The idea is still there and if you want to know what was said you can look up links that work.
TIai update #6.5: Michael & Elvis, DOUBle-scam from TS??
by TS » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:30 am
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=16148 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=16148)<!-- l -->
5. Outthinking the Illuminati
I have never said that the whole company of Sony is in on the hoax. What I have said is that Michael planned this hoax for many years, and got a few key people in a few key positions. Some of what comes through Sony is part of MJ’s plan, but a lot of it is not.
And the statement by MJ, about outthinking Sony, is not being understood with the word “outthink” in mind. Yes, MJ did have some problems with Sony—especially TM, who is long gone. But was it really Sony that MJ was primarily talking about? Would stating in public and on video exactly who you are planning on outthinking, would that really qualify as outsmarting them—or would it be outstupiding them??
Do you really think that MJ was talking exclusively (or even primarily) about Sony, when he said that they have manipulated the “history books”? Or perhaps was MJ actually referring to outthinking the Illuminati, and using Sony as a bit of a diversion (although the Illuminati does have its fingers in every big pie, including Sony)?
The family has already said they know who killed MJ, and “it’s all going to come out”. So if Sony, TMZ, and/or TS were involved in this murder plot—and the family has already figured it out—then continuing to promote the hoax concept would only make them look more and more guilty of trying to hide the murder. As soon as Sony, TMZ, and/or TS realized that the family was on to their tracks, they would distance themselves from the hoax theory as far and as fast as possible. Then why has that not happened???
The hoax doesn’t rely only on TS anyway; as many have said, they believed in the hoax before TS ever posted anything. In fact, don’t you think there is good reason why I didn’t post any new thread—or even make a comment in an existing thread—until more than two months after the “death”? If I had posted immediately after 6-25-2009, then people could claim that TS is the reason for believing in the hoax; but it did not happen this way, for a good reason.
“And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm .” (Matthew 8:26). I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: “it’s all going to come out” (and this was in the context of the “airport” slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!
TIAI Revealed, Part 7: NWO Powers Control the Media (R29-42)
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:02 am
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1930 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1930)<!-- l -->
TIAI Revealed, Part 7: NWO Powers Control the Mass Media (R29 - R42)
This whole part 7 deals with the secret societies; and especially their agenda to create a one-world religion and one-world government system, called the New World Order (NWO). There are many such societies, including: Illuminati, Skull & Bones, Masons, and many more; they are bricks in the pyramid (shown on the back of the U.S. one dollar bill). Instead of trying to identify individual secret societies, the general term “NWO powers” will be used.
Michael is well aware of these NWO powers, their corruption, their tremendous power, and their conspiracies (see R29). And he knows that these powers control the mass media; which means that if you do a hoax to expose the mass media corruption, you are inherently going to come under the wrath of the powers that control the media—you can’t do one, without having the other. So he has to be very careful with when and how he returns to the public eye.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
R29. MJ on Police Brutality
{The links originally here in this part are not online anymore. I added new videos. See below.}
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqtW9y_2aZ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqtW9y_2aZ0)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsu-g5bn ... ure=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsu-g5bn0kg&feature=fvwrel)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK4B062D ... ure=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK4B062DrBU&feature=fvwrel)<!-- m -->
The redirect for this day was another YouTube video; it was a segment on police brutality, from the 60 minutes interview in December of 2003. It is of course very sad the way that MJ was treated; but the truly heroic part, was his humble and mild response—you have to watch it, if you haven’t already.
Later in this same interview, Michael said: “I don’t want to say too much … there’s a conspiracy, yeah; I don’t want to say too much. I’m done.” You see, he didn’t want to say much, because he knew the danger involved in exposing the NWO powers. And no, he was not talking about some small-town conspiracy; he was talking “media” conspiracy, and “manipulating history books”, etc.
R30. The Illuminati Theory – Not Involving Murder
<!-- m -->http://mjconspiracy.50.forumer.com/view ... 40beadadd0 (http://mjconspiracy.50.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1174&sid=a4ef6b06643d9e5fbd731f40beadadd0)<!-- m -->
Here was a thread from the MJ-conspiracy.com hoax forum; this thread was chosen because of the title, and also some of the posts in the thread. I will quote from some of Lacey5842’s post; it is very well stated!
“All the while this is happening [the hoax] people are waking up, not necessarily to him being alive, but to what is happening in the world that effects them and they aren’t happy. They’ve started to look for answers on how we, humanity, can stop this evil minority from continuing with their plans. So, essentially, people are becoming united all over the world for example that’s how you and I are now connected. All the while this is happening Michael is safely hidden away, watching what is happening from a distance. I believe that once Michael can see that enough people are united and have enough knowledge of all that is happening he will then feel safe enough to reveal that he is still alive and confirm his message. In effect all those that didn't believe he was still alive will then see that, in fact, he is but they will also have all the knowledge of the things happening around them. Michael will then have his army, ‘Soldiers of Love’ and not one of his billions of soldiers are going to allow anything to happen to him because if anything did happen to him the Elite would know that there would be war and our army is far bigger then [than] theirs but is also worldwide. They will know they don’t stand a chance so in effect they won’t even try. It is my belief that when Michael does return there will be a war but it will be a non violent, peaceful war. A war based on numbers, unity, wits and L.O.V.E.”
This thread was also used, because of the title: The Illuminati Theory – Not Involving Murder! Since the next half-a-dozen redirects would deal with murders, this title was used to show that MJ himself was not murdered. In spite of this, and many other TIAI redirects pointing to a hoax and not a murder, some still thought that TIAI was trying to say that MJ was murdered.
These corrupt NWO leaders really don’t care if you believe in conspiracies, etc—just as long as the culprits remain in the realm of unidentified mysteries. But they definitely don’t want to be identified by name and face;
R35. Google Search on Various Conspiracy Murders
<!-- m -->http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz= ... =f&oq=&aqi (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1W1SUNA_en&tbo=0&q=conspiracy+%22pearl+harbor%22+jfk+rfk+mlk+%22princess+di%22+911+titanic+...&aq=f&oq=&aqi)<!-- m -->
The last one given in the search list was the Titanic; and although the sinking is very well known, the conspiracy behind it is rarely heard of—even among those who recognize a lot of the conspiracies. The NWO powers were trying to set up the Federal Reserve, for controlling money and funding their agenda; but some very wealthy and influential people knew that this would be bad, and were against it. So what did the NWO powers do about it? They sunk a whole ship, and murdered 1,517 people—just to get rid of the opposition.
“On the maiden voyage of the Titanic some of the most prominent people of the day were travelling in first–class. Some of these included millionaire John Jacob Astor IV <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jacob_Astor_IV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jacob_Astor_IV)<!-- m --> and his wife Madeleine Force Astor [one of the wealthiest families in the United States], industrialist Benjamin Guggenheim <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Guggenheim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Guggenheim)<!-- m -->, Macy’s owner Isidor Straus <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidor_Straus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidor_Straus)<!-- m --> and his wife Ida …”
The ship sunk in 1912, and the three wealthy men listed above all died in the disaster; then the Federal Reserve was set up in 1913. <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve)<!-- m --> This explains why the iceberg warnings were ignored, and it also explains the numerous other strange mysteries surrounding this major disaster.
R36. Aphrodite Jones and Thomas Mesereau (MJ Conspiracy)
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIwehjDPOYU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIwehjDPOYU)<!-- m -->
Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.
The conspiracy did succeed to the extent of damaging MJ’s reputation; but it did not succeed to the extent of the court finding him guilty. At the end of the video clip, Aphrodite asked a very appropriate question: “Why are we still crucifying this man? He was found not guilty.”
R37. Daniel and the Lion’s Den
<!-- m -->http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NLT (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%206:22&version=NLT)<!-- m -->
“My God sent his angel to shut the lions’ mouths so that they would not hurt me, for I have been found innocent in his sight. And I have not wronged you, Your Majesty.” (Daniel 6:22, NLT).
As always, the context of the verse is important. In this case, it is the very well known story of Daniel and the lion’s den. High officials in the kingdom hated Daniel, and conspired to get rid of him; but God overruled, saved Daniel’s life, and vindicated his character. I’m sure that you can see the parallel here, with the conspiracy against MJ. God thwarted the plans of MJ’s enemies, and he was found not guilty on all charges.
Now let’s stop and think here for a minute. These NWO leaders are capable of sinking a whole ship, and killing over 1,500 people on it, just to get rid of a few people. They brought down the trade towers, which killed masses of people; they killed the US President (JFK), as well as his son—and the list goes on.
Then don’t you think they are capable of taking MJ out? So why didn’t they succeed in killing MJ before 2009? In fact, why didn’t they succeed in the child molestation charges? There is a very simple answer: as with Daniel, God shut the mouths of the lions, and thwarted the conspiracies of the government officials.
Why did God protect MJ, and not JFK, MLK, etc? Perhaps only God understands that fully; but it could well be that God has a special plan for MJ, in the final battle against the NWO. Maybe God has a mission for MJ, and has protected him from his enemies “for such a time as this” (Esther 4:14).
Then if God can protect MJ in 1993, and in 2005, and clear up to 6-25-09: then don’t you think that God can still protect him after 6-25-09? In fact, don’t you think that God could protect his life ON 6-25-09??? Then why do we keep being faithless, and thinking that he really died?
If God wants to keep MJ alive, or you, or anyone else: not all the weapons in the whole world can kill. Just like Daniel in the lion’s den: “My God sent his angel to shut the lions’ mouths so that they would not hurt me …”
R39. Michael’s Army of L.O.V.E.
<!-- m -->http://www.mtv.com/photos/michael-jacks ... hoto.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/photos/michael-jacksons-this-is-it-trailer-frames/1621244/4251494/photo.jhtml)<!-- m -->
This clue was one of the still shots, from the TII trailer; specifically, an army of soldiers, with an “M” in the center of the background (Michael’s army). Take a look at a close up picture of the soldiers, and you will see that they are not carrying guns or weapons <!-- m -->http://www.mtv.com/photos/michael-jacks ... hoto.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/photos/michael-jacksons-this-is-it-trailer-frames/1621244/4251493/photo.jhtml)<!-- m -->. This is because it’s an Army of L.O.V.E., not an army of violence.
These soldiers in the TII movie were filmed as part of the song “They Don’t Really Care About Us”. This army needs to stand up against the NWO corruption, the very ones that MJ is singing about—who don’t really care about us, but kill thousands of their own citizens to forward their evil agenda.
Actually, all four of the film segments in TII are directly related to the hoax and its purpose. Smooth Criminal: about the hoaxed death. Thriller: about the MJ “resurrection”. Earth Song: butterflies (represent re-birth), and healing the world (environment, etc).
R40. “The Whole Armor of God”
<!-- m -->http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=KJ21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:12-13&version=KJ21)<!-- m -->
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world [NWO powers], against spiritual wickedness in high places. Therefore, take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day and, having done all, to stand.” (Ephesians 6:12,13; 21st Century KJV).
If we want to be warriors in Michael’s Army of L.O.V.E., we need to be wearing the “whole armor”—then and only then will we be able to stand against the NWO powers, etc. Does this mean that we should take up guns and bombs, and only add more strife and bloodshed in this world that needs peace? No! The Bible says that “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal [not physical weapons]” (2 Corinthians 10:4).
Then what is the armor, which we need to have? The context of the above verse in Ephesians gives the answer (verses 13-18): “Therefore, take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day and, having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness, and your feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel of peace. Above all, take the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.”
TIai update #6: Michael & Elvis, DOuble-bam This Summer?!?
by TS » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:16 pm
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10384#p174363 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10384#p174363)<!-- l -->
6-2 Double-bam: ElvisAndMJ.com
Here are some videos, with some very amazing Elvis and MJ parallels—both before and after the “deaths” <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFp8DJyN68E; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFp8DJyN68E;)<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnCi5uz9SY; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnCi5uz9SY;)<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMmPhaAtclg; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMmPhaAtclg;)<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5Bizr6osc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5Bizr6osc)<!-- m -->.
In Summary:
King of Rock / King of Pop
Graceland / Neverland
Lisa Marie Presley daughter / wife (no doubt MJ learned some hoax tips)
“Death” was claimed drug related, and heart related
“Died” at home
Taken to hospital in ambulance (even though already “dead”)
CPR on the way to hospital
Declared “dead” at hospital
Phony autopsy <!-- l -->viewforum.php?f=40 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=40)<!-- l -->
Investigation into doctor
Different middle name (Aron vs. Aaron / Joe vs. Joseph)
This Is Elvis / This Is It (films about Elvis & MJ, released after the “deaths”)
“Death” dates equals their own concert intro, related to space (see 6-9, below)
Other numerology (see 6-8, below)
And the list goes on <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=10&t=467; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=467;)<!-- l --> <!-- l -->viewforum.php?f=10 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=10)<!-- l -->.
Lisa Marie Presley reported that Michael told her: “I am afraid that I am going to end up like him [Elvis], the way he did.” <!-- m -->http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuse ... =497035326 (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=42291868&blogId=497035326)<!-- m -->. How did Elvis end up? With a fake death; so MJ must have known about it, and expected to do the same.
Yes, the “deaths” of Elvis and MJ are so similar—that if one faked his death, then so did the other. And now we can be certain that Elvis did fake his death, which means that we can also be certain that MJ faked his death! In fact, in the category of clues: we have far more clues from MJ than from Elvis.
There are a few big differences. One is the open casket for Elvis, versus closed casket for MJ. Everyone said that it did not look like Elvis in the casket (some said it looked like a wax dummy); so MJ learned from that, and had a closed casket. Another difference is that there were few if any clues from Elvis about a return/bam; but many such clues from MJ <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9763 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9763)<!-- l -->.
6-8 Elvis & MJ Numerology
<!-- m -->http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33 (http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33)<!-- m -->
Since MJ learned from Elvis: this proves that the MJ numerology was also planned, and is not some astronomical coincidence. Since it was planned, then this shows once again that the numerology does indeed explain some of the reasons for the MJ death hoax. Below is a brief overview of some of the MJ numerology. {For more details, see: <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7064; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7064;)<!-- l --> <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7124; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7124;)<!-- l --> <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9726; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9726;)<!-- l --> <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994)<!-- l -->.
MJ had “777” on his red shirt in “THIS IS IT” {also on the History album cover, etc; <!-- m -->http://mocha-soul.com/wordpress/wp-cont ... ontal2.jpg (http://mocha-soul.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/MichaelJackson-History-Frontal2.jpg)<!-- m -->.
MJ had 1998 on the cover of the Dangerous album, and also signed this number on many autographs. 1998 / 2 = 999; 1 + 998 = 999, 1 + 9 + 9 + 8 = 27, 2 + 7 = 9; etc. Also, “THIS IS IT” has three vowels, III = 999 (9th letter of the alphabet).
The “death” was 77 days from 9-9-09 (999), and the burial was 7 days from 9-9-09; this makes three sevens (777) linked directly with 9-9-09. {Note: you must use inclusive reckoning; see 4-10 in Update #4b, <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7064 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7064)<!-- l -->. The burial was on a full moon (to the naked eye), and one day before the official full moon.
The memorial was on the 7th day of the 7th month, 7 years after the date on the will; again, three sevens (777). The memorial was also on a full moon (the official full moon, in this case).
And there are three sevens (777) in the timing of the 911 call (12:21) and the “death” (2:26). Also, the 911 call was placed at 12:21, because this number is divisible by 111—along with almost all of the MJ hoax numbers; in fact, “THIS IS IT” is 111 minutes long. Finally, the 12:21 call relates to the date 12-21-2012.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
6-9 Elvis & MJ “Death” Dates Equal Concert Intro
<!-- m -->http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2010/06/0 ... umerology- (http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/tiai-thisisalsoit-elvisjesse-numerology-)<!-- m -->
link/
Add the day, month, and year together: 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001. This is the name of a film
about space, which was a favourite of Elvis—so much so, that he used the song from it to open his concerts <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Sp ... ssey_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)<!-- m -->); <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprac ... rd_Strauss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_(Richard_Strauss)<!-- m -->).
Did MJ learn about this as well, and incorporate the same numerology clue into his own fake death? Yes, indeed he did! 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040. This is the year that MJ had clearly shown on the bottom of the space ship, in his concert intro! {See 0:15, <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mkzqdx021k; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mkzqdx021k;)<!-- m --> <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10685 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10685)<!-- l -->
This again proves that MJ planned his “death” to the very day, many years ago (as I have said all along). And why would 6-25-2009 need to be the exact day? Not for the memorial on 7-7-09; the “death” could’ve been before or after 6-25, and still had the memorial on the full moon July 7. It’s because 6-25-09 is the only day that is 77 days from 9-9-09; and this locks in 999 with the MJ numerology, as well as 1998 and all the rest.
6-11 Some Elvis Fans Have “Kept the Faith” for More than 30 Years!
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10757&start=50#p179522 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10757&start=50#p179522)<!-- l -->
Quoting from that redirect: “It never ceases to amaze me how quickly the doubts creep in as soon as something ‘new’ happens. ... When the doubts do creep in, read over the hoax summary threads and especially TS’s posts. But most importantly, keep the faith and the L.O.V.E. alive.”
It reminds me of this passage, from James: “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.” (James 1:6-8).
Many Elvis fans have kept the faith for more than 30 years—with less clues than we have about MJ; it puts some of us MJ hoax fans to shame! With all the evidence we have now, especially with Elvis being alive: there is no need to waver anymore over whether MJ is alive—he has already gone back and forth from alive to dead, and back to alive again, hundreds of times! Has anybody else ever died that many times??? <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
6-12 Daniel 10:21 and Michael <!-- m -->http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%2010:21&version=KJV)<!-- m -->
21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET
by TS » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:59 pm
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=14058 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=14058)<!-- l -->
What we do know for sure is that: “It’s all going to come out; it’s all going to unfold.” <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0SoaOe-cs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0SoaOe-cs)<!-- m -->. This is what Jermaine said back in February, 2010; and it was stated in the context of the “airport” slip, so we know he meant the hoax is all going to come out <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7010 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7010)<!-- l -->.
Jermaine also reiterated this again on Larry King interview in June, 2010. “[Larry:] Do you think we’ll ever find out the whole story? [Jermaine:] Yes! Yes! You know why, because his [MJ’s] family is not going to let it not happen. ... We’re going to do everything in our power as a family to make sure the world knows what really happened.” <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OiJMjilg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OiJMjilg)<!-- m -->.
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:30 am
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1933 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1933)<!-- l -->
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”
Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).
So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.
Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?
Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.
The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).
Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” <!-- m -->http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215)<!-- m -->? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 <!-- m -->http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp ... E15AF1%7d; (http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d;)<!-- m --> even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.
Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.
Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? <!-- m -->http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/)<!-- m -->
As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.
And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.
“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”
“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).
Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.
And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).
“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).
Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.
And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).
Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.
Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!
The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0 ... 02&index=4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4)<!-- m --> “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the
FINAL curtain call.”
TIAI Update #4d: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
by TS » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:44 am
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194)<!-- l -->
4-33. Does the NWO Promote the End of the World?
Clearly, the 911 call at 12:21 fits very well with the planned timing. So if it was really planned murder, and not a planned hoax: then the NWO conspiracy team decided to promote the end of the world concept, as part of the plan. Now it is quite understandable that MJ himself, who believes the Bible and knows it very well, it is easy to accept that he would want to warn about the end of the world.
But why would NWO murderers do that? They don’t believe in the end of the world soon, or ever for that matter; they don’t care about warning people to get ready, and they have no reason to promote such a message. If they thought that the current world would soon be destroyed, then they would not spend all the money and energy trying to set up their own world order!
Another point is that it’s very unlikely for NWO murderers to understand the Bible well enough to know about inclusive reckoning, and come up with the plan for 77 days and 7 days to 9-9-09 (inclusive). And MJ has not used inclusive reckoning publicly in the past; so they couldn’t merely watch how he operates, and then mimic him to make it look like he was behind the timing.
Last but not least: God would not cooperate in a NWO plot to murder MJ, and make it look like a hoax. But on 3-6-09 (immediately after the O2 press conference) God did step in and reverse the NWO plot to destroy the economy; with a low of 666, the fastest six-month rally in history started on 3-9-09 (and six months later was 9-9-09).
Although God would not be involved in a murder plot, it is quite likely that God would help in a plan to warn about the end of the world, to expose the NWO conspiracy, and to turn the NWO upside down (666 pyramid to 999). “The LORD ... relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.” (Psalm 146:9; see Isaiah 24:1; Acts 17:6).
I am now going to talk about the threats and what has been said the reason for them are. Most people think it is because of his catalog. Some have even said it is because he is worth more dead than alive. In a carnal/fleshly world that is a good simple explanation for the threats. That is what Michael has said over and over because IMO the real reason will be harder for most people to accept. I say this because I have watched the reactions of people regarding the NWO and alot of people still refuse to see what is right in front of their face.
I am going to tell my story of the thought/vision that came to me yesterday while I was awake regarding the real reason MJ was/is such a threat to the NWO and he had/has to be taken out by any means necessary. Example the accusations of child molestation.
The NWO was hoping to destroy his reputation so that the public would no longer want to listen to MJ and his messages of awareness, awakening and hope. I hadn’t gave much thought to this subject other than I felt there was a bigger reason than his catalog why he was being threatened. I have always believed he was in danger.
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
<!-- m -->http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A1-3&version=NIV)<!-- m -->
Daniel 12:1-3 New International Version (NIV)
Daniel 12
The End Times
1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.
Groupthink can be right if used properly or it can be very very wrong and dangerous.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink)<!-- m -->
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within groups of people. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative ideas or viewpoints. Antecedent factors such as group cohesiveness, structural faults, and situational context play into the likelihood of whether or not groupthink will impact the decision-making process.
The primary socially negative cost of groupthink is the loss of individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking. While this often causes groupthink to be portrayed in a negative light, because it can suppress independent thought, groupthink under certain contexts can also help expedite decisions and improve efficiency. As a social science model, groupthink has an enormous reach and influences literature in the fields of communications, political science, social psychology, management, organizational theory, and information technology.
The whole series of updates below also provide alot of info regarding numerology and reasons why MJ is alive. Something that I realize is that IF a person doesn’t keep an open mind and accept the numerology; it is useless in proving MJ is alive. It will be of great help to MJ when he returns to prove he is the real deal and the mastermind behind this hoax adventure.
TIAI Update #4a: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
by TS » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:59 am
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010)<!-- l -->
4-4. Brief Review: 4 Major Reasons MJ Is Alive
Before getting into the meat of this update—for the sake of any hoax newbie’s (or even for seasoned hoaxers who need a reminder)—here are four major reasons to believe that MJ faked his death: #1 how the family has re-acted; #2 the Liberian Girl pictures at the memorial, and later the burial; #3 MJ’s remake of the Gilda movie, with a faked death, in This Is It (TII); #4 the lack of any MJ RIP in the TII cinema version, the TII DVD version, the 1-31-2010 Grammys, and TMZ (for seven months).
Why did the Jackson children look bored at the memorial? Where was the grief? Where were the tears, running down the faces of any of the Jacksons? Oh yes, they were all wearing sunglasses (indoors), so we could not see their grief and tears—or perhaps, was it so that we would not see the lack of grief and tears?
The memorial, and the funeral/burial two months later, had pictures from Liberian Girl; in fact, at the burial, the only two pictures up front were both Liberian Girl pictures. In case anyone doesn’t know, Liberian Girl is the video where MJ directed from behind the scenes; and nobody could see him, until the end. Here is the Liberian Girl video <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3V-7DEAgdc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3V-7DEAgdc)<!-- m -->, and notice what MJ is wearing at the end; for funeral/burial program cover <!-- m -->http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjack ... 090409.pdf (http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf)<!-- m -->. Here is the Liberian Girl photo <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberian_Girl; (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberian_Girl;)<!-- m --> and here is the main funeral/burial photo <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4f0Cm0Qehg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4f0Cm0Qehg)<!-- m --> at 1:09.
MJ was a fan of old movies, and he was obviously well aware of Gilda—since he did a short remake of it for Smooth Criminal in TII <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_bVPEPAUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_bVPEPAUo)<!-- m --> ; <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilda)<!-- m -->. Since MJ was well aware of this movie: no doubt he knew that one of the main characters, Ballin Mundson, was played by George Macready <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready)<!-- m -->—an actor who had the same birthday as MJ! And to really top it all off: in the original Gilda movie, this same man “faked his death”! Surely that did not slip the attention of MJ! And surely, this is one of the main reasons he chose to remake this film.
Finally, after MJ supposedly died on June 25, we have had four major cases of dementia: the Grammys (MJ not listed in the musicians who had died since the previous year); TII cinema movie (no mention of MJ death or RIP); TII DVD, with additional material on it (and still no direct mention of 1958-2009, or RIP); and TMZ forgot MJ on their celebrity RIP page for seven months, until hoax believers reminded them about it <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4986 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4986)<!-- l -->.
TIAI Update #5b: DO you Think 4 your Self?
by TS » Thu May 13, 2010 2:13 pm
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9763 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9763)<!-- l -->
TIAI Update #5d: DO you Think 4 your Self?
by TS » Wed May 19, 2010 7:07 pm
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994)<!-- l -->
Michael gave us messages in his Moonwalker movie. He told us he was going away and he would return.
Keep the Faith.
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker-Part 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8KBimRVJVg[/youtube]
Uploaded by BILLIEJEANBOY on Mar 27, 2008
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker-The Movie
[highlight=#ffff40:2mk7wrdf]Bonus videos![/highlight:2mk7wrdf]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wzSQbBfEA[/youtube]
Uploaded by MissA1485 on Jul 24, 2010
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHOjeRf8xIU&NR=1[/youtube]
Uploaded by MissA1485 on Jul 24, 2010
-
Hi all,
I wasn't planning on posting to this tread because it's a moot point to me. I really believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is alive and that he will return!!!
But as I was posting on another thread about a TV movie from 2010 "What Killed Michael Jackson?" I realized that what I was saying there could be put here as my reasons for not believing any murder theory. It seems that many statements made by individuals in that documentary movie simply confirmed my belief that this is all a hoax.
If any would be interested here is the post.
Re: "Michael Jackson History: The King of Pop 1958-2009"
Post by onthewingsoflove » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:12 pm
Hi all,
Sorry it has taken me this long to get back to you regarding the second part of this movie that I posted here. As I was watching more of the second movie I began to realize that I did see this movie on TV. The name of it is "What Killed Micheal Jackson?" It was made in 2010. The description of the movie is: "This hard-hitting documentary traces the last months of the singer's life, examines the circumstances that led to his untimely passing, and explores the controversy and unanswered questions about a death that many say could have been prevented."
You can see the movie for yourself, as it is on you tube in 7 parts! Here is the URL for the first part and then you can get to the other 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKUesA50-E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKUesA50-E)
After watching this movie again I am certainly convinced that Michael is alive. It might just be me, but it seems that some of the statements made by some of the individuals confirms this. For instance the MJ Impersonator Navi said that he had been a decoy for Michael and that he had been invited to do the visuals for the "This Is It" concert but it didn't occur. Yea, right he may not have done the "concert" but he did the film because there is a particular scene of him in it. From the first time I saw it I have always said that particular person in the film was not Michael because he appeared to big and stocky in my eyes to be Michael. I tried to rationalize it away and say maybe it was just the angle of the camera, which was shot up from the floor that made him look bigger. But as I look at my DVD of "This Is It" again, and with this statement by Navi, I really believe that it's Navi in that portion of the film.
Quincy Jones is in the movie with his comment of why he wasn't going to the funeral. He said he didn't want to go because he had buried 150 people in 2 years!!!! He wanted to remember him as he was. But he also said in the same clip that Michael was like a son to him. So I don't buy his reason for not going! Wouldn't you go to your son's funeral? Was he estranged from Michael or something? No he didn't go because he knows Michael is not dead!
Another statement that confirms for me that MJ is alive is what the narrator of the movie said at one point and I quote, "The saga surrounding his demise is far from over. His dramatic exit left a lot of conspiracy theories." The saga? Hmmmmm. His dramatic exit? :o I don't think I would call someone's unexpected death a saga! That speaks volumes to me!
And of course the comment by both Mark Lester and Susan Etock (?) about the 99% that was written about Michael was untruth. She said "an ounce was truth and the rest was totally embellished." Yes it was Susan, for the hoax!
Then there are lots of statements about the conflicting reports as to the true state of Michael's health leading up to the concerts. One individual said that Michael's weight at that time was correct for his height and that he was in the best of condition. This is not only conflicting with what others are saying in this movie but it also conflicts with the first autopsy report! :lol:
The most interesting statements to me are what Michael himself said outside the courthouse after the verdicts of the last trial about Santa Maria where Neverland is. He said, "I love Santa Maria, I love the people of Santa Maria. This is why I moved there. I will always love Santa Maria. This is where my children were born." And mind you this is said after the raids were carried out there. I really think the statement that He never wanted to live there again was in a moment filled with hurt and anger, and not from his heart. But now it plays well as part of this hoax because a lot of people, because of that statement, refuse to believe that Michael could be at Neverland! I keep remembering the shadowy figures that looked like Michael in some of the tapings that were done at Neverland after his death. suspicious// Someone has posted on this site some recent pictures of Neverland from the air and the place looks just gorgeous, which supports what I said in another post way back that I felt in my spirit that Neverland would rise from the ashes! It has definitely done that! It is obvious from the pictures that someone is living there now, and it could very well be Michael! I'm not ruling out anything!
Another statement in the movie is "Michael Jackson's life has been about selling things. In his life and in his death it will still be about show business!" And then they mention the "This Is It" film. Well helloooo, Michael is selling this hoax!
Now the final statement that confirms for me that Michael is alive is the very last thing said in the movie. Navi says, "In the world of MJ I have gone beyond expecting. I'll just wait to see what happens!" Along with the rest of us! lolol/ Thank you Navi!
Go to YouTube and watch the movie and draw your own conclusions!
Blessings to you all!
OnTheWingsOfLove!
-
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
Yeah it would be easier except knowledge is a curse and without a thorough brain washing I will go to my grave a believer.
I know he's alive, I don't doubt that even on my lowest days. I do doubt wtf we are doing here though.
I do understand what TS is doing. I don't understand what MJ is doing. I don't understand why this all must STILL be so cryptic. No one believes us. MJ could come to us and say, hi, it's me, and his secret would still be safe. Let's say he does that and we all run off and tell our friends, MJ is alive, he came to us online! No one would believe us, our credibility is shot thanks to 2 years of keeping the faith here. We sound like crazy people. The secret is safe. So why continue with the cryptic stuff?
What if we have been conditionated to "believe"?
The secret is not safe here. The forum is open and we would not believe anyone coming in telling us "hey I am MJ" anyway.
To prove that MJ is alive is like proving the existance of God. It´s a question of faith.
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
To me it is opposit. If I have a logical explanation of an incident, strong, and valid facts/proof of the theory to believe Michael is alive, I don't care whether or not he will be back, as long as he is happy out there in freedom, I am happy too.
As a matter of fact, from the moment wrongful death lawsuit was filed by Katherine, I was confident that if MJ is alive, he is no coming back. Then we have been continuosly analysing murder vs hoax, debunking clues, this and that, logically we have more obvious facts that Michael is alive than dead. I would say beyond reasonable doubt Michael was not killed intentionally because facts & motives are weak for any of dudes in consideration for murder. Accidental dead? Doubt so, after all Conrad is a doctor (good or bad) who could preform CPR, he did not do it because there was no need; he did not call 911 on time, because there was no need, he did not sign DC because no need, etc. Michael would not allow anyone to administer him propofol at home realizing that it is dangerous for him and kids who will be left without parents if something happens to him. And finally FAMILY who constantly claims MJ was killed, lives happy without concern why Conrad is charged with INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER and no one else undergo the investigation for murder. As I explained earlier here,there is a big difference between murder and involuntary manslaughter charges.
Sure, but, as I said....no matter with how many logic theories we come up, the proof still will be seeing MJ in flesh and blood and listening from his own mouth that it was a hoax to save his life or whatever other reasons.
-
What's up with this no come back stuff again? You might as well believe he's dead.
He will be back if he's alive, I just don't understand what's taking him so long :(
What we (I) believe does not matter, Gina. What do we win trying to prove that he is alive anyway?. One can say "He is alive" and we feel good, because it´s important just to us "deluded folks who can´t let MJ go".
We did not see Michael dead in the casket and we did not see MJ alive or around after June 25th or earlier either.
I´ll go further. Some people here "felt" Michael was alive. We talk about "gut feeling", intuition, premonition and even paranormal events and based on the same events other gifted people say MJ is dead.
Then we got "informers" or Michael´s friends giving out hints.
At the end is up to us to believe or not, but somehow we need support from each other to make sure that we are not mistaken and that collective thought is what is labeling us.
-
@Gema....have you forgotten the coffee already? albino/
lolol/ sorry, but yesterday I was hunting Aaron Carter...coffee is always waiting 4u bearhug
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
Gema, when the tough gets going everyone takes the easy way out. You shouldn't you have to persevere. Michael is alive and he will come back when the time is right for him. It can be this July, next year, in 10 yrs I have no clue, I am as much in the obscure as you are. I will never give up, I have faith that he will come back. The only thing is, I will not be in this forum for ever either, I love all you guys, even if we bickered, sometimes bickering makes us stronger among eachother. Michael will not do like Elvis. Elvis is alive as well, but I think he has some restrictions to come back since he worked for the DEA. So Gema, and friends please do not give up on our Michael, it is not time to do so. If we do who will he come back to? We are his fans, and we are the only ones who believe in him. Blessings to all my hoax friends.
bearhug
The easiest option is to "let it go" (talking about TS´s post of proving murder vs alive and viceversa) since I for instance can´t prove that this person is alive using the theories we have, even if they sound logic.
His family made an international memorial and funeral, the media reported the death and his family is still confirming how tragic the death was and there is a so called trial on the line...now for next year...because MJ was "murdered".
This is a tuff situation. WE, our theories, against everybody...even against his own family who up to some weeks back were very cryptic as well.
I am not gaining anything proving to the world that MJ is alive, so why bother?
IF MJ is really alive, he must help us out and "give us a sign" but not a cryptic one...after 2 years it becomes boring you know.
-
Im_convincedmjalive,
Thanks for your post and for bringing old ones up.
Here is my point. How do you think people react when listening about "evil illuminati"? Those theories are not helping "us" at all imo. Makes us look even more "crazy" and we lose credibility, like being a bunch of conspiracists talking about evil plans and using MJ´s image as the media channel to get that message out.
-
Gema you are right, it's the gut feeling that brought us here in the first place. It all started with the O2 for me, with the dilema was it MJ or not, and with this fist to some unknown enemy:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/michael-jackson-560562007.jpg)
You are a phychologist, what's your take about that fist? It bothered me for a very long time. Michael looks angry for a second, realy angry.
-
Oh I can't get this out of my head: I was reading that Michael thought he was given a special mission by God, and this seems very much related to TS' theories, about religion and the army of love and the saving of the world, this kind of stuff. Somehow everything ties together in a surreal picture, Michael's religious background, his songs about saving the wrold, making that change and so on, it's the SAME MESSAGE, even in TS' posts there is something that links it all together with Michael, but can I put my finger on it? No crash/
Michael is a lot of things at the same time, even if they seem opposite, some of them. For a dedicated believer in God, who also has dreams and visions about a higher mission God reserved for him, he grabs his crotch too much mj_bad/ .
Seems like I'm lost again. One thing is sure: he was always different and innovative in his own unique style. The perfect candidate for a death hoax.
-
Gema you are right, it's the gut feeling that brought us here in the first place. It all started with the O2 for me, with the dilema was it MJ or not, and with this fist to some unknown enemy:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/michael-jackson-560562007.jpg)
You are a phychologist, what's your take about that fist? It bothered me for a very long time. Michael looks angry for a second, realy angry.
Yes he looked angry, and he shrugged his shoulders and looked angry again, to me, this was a BLACK PANTHER salute from way back in the 1980's, maybe we witnessed Michael declare war but didnt realise this. I was watching videos by Farakhaan on ytube about the Crucifiction of MJ, and he also referred to this salute by saying he knew what it meant, and the congregation knew what this meant, he then said that Michael was a Warrior.
mj_bad/ respect/
-
Well I've stayed away for a while now....and have been thinking alot about all of this...and there are too many weird behaviours, from not only the family, but from everyone who has even known Michael or worked with him..
Michael is not GOD....he is just another human being like you and me, but God did give him a gift, and he used that gift, his angelic trumpet, to help alot of people around the world. He used that gift to help spread the message of L.O.V.E and peace....and awareness. But at the end of the day, he is just a human being, one that makes mistakes, one that has sinned and repented, has farted, has burped and has even blown his nose. He is not invincable as most of us like to think. At the end of the day, nothing we do or say here in this forum, will ever lead us to the truth. Its all speculation and over analysing. Michael is probably dead...he would not have to power to manipulate soooo many people to participate in the illusion. What was the purpose of a public memorial, where the family where on show and an empty coffin brought in???? Why didn't the family just stay at home, and watch it form there..???? What I'm getting at is.....it would be impossible to have so many people lie not once, but over and over and over again, just to keep a secret. Lying is a SIN...making his daughter talk at his memorial, is just too much for me....I will agree with TS and say MJ was mudered...........
[BBvideo 425,350:onag237h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10bUvw95jpI[/BBvideo:onag237h]
-
Well I've stayed away for a while now....and have been thinking alot about all of this...and there are too many weird behaviours, from not only the family, but from everyone who has even known Michael or worked with him..
Michael is not GOD....he is just another human being like you and me, but God did give him a gift, and he used that gift, his angelic trumpet, to help alot of people around the world. He used that gift to help spread the message of L.O.V.E and peace....and awareness. But at the end of the day, he is just a human being, one that makes mistakes, one that has sinned and repented, has farted, has burped and has even blown his nose. He is not invincable as most of us like to think. At the end of the day, nothing we do or say here in this forum, will ever lead us to the truth. Its all speculation and over analysing. Michael is probably dead...he would not have to power to manipulate soooo many people to participate in the illusion. What was the purpose of a public memorial, where the family where on show and an empty coffin brought in???? Why didn't the family just stay at home, and watch it form there..???? What I'm getting at is.....it would be impossible to have so many people lie not once, but over and over and over again, just to keep a secret. Lying is a SIN...making his daughter talk at his memorial, is just too much for me....I will agree with TS and say MJ was mudered...........
[BBvideo 425,350:1x0gdchf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10bUvw95jpI[/BBvideo:1x0gdchf]
If you listen closely to what Paris said at the memorial she didn't say anything that wasn't true to her. Being the best father anyone could imagine, that's not a lie, in her eyes I'm sure he's one helleva father! As much as he loves children and wanted his own I'm positive he is a great father as well. I'm sure if we go back and listen to every single word that Paris, Prince and Blanket have said in the last two years we will see that they haven't lied about anything. Paris mentioned (and I don't know word for word) in the Oprah interview that her father made the worlds best french toast. Well when they lived at home with him I'm sure he cooked and he (in her eyes) made the best french toast. Wasn't it just asked what they missed the most? They could give any answer and it not be a lie.
-
Im_convincedmjalive,
Thanks for your post and for bringing old ones up.
Here is my point. How do you think people react when listening about "evil illuminati"? Those theories are not helping "us" at all imo. Makes us look even more "crazy" and we lose credibility, like being a bunch of conspiracists talking about evil plans and using MJ´s image as the media channel to get that message out.
It's true. Nobody respects us, people call us crazy, desperate and upset.
When we pay attention is to make us idiots, setting false dates to Bam and giving clues that lead no any place. I think so many people having fun with the believers. Hope it is not the case with TS.
Sometimes I feel like a guinea pig lab! :oops:
-
Hey TS. It's me again. I have debated myself out of many an urge to post in the last few days by trying to debunk my musings from the pro murder side of thinking. You can debate [and rightly so] that much of what we are sure are clues are our own unique interpretation of slip ups, such as Jermaine's airport slip and the likes.
However, the timing of hoax events is the strongest proof that this is a planned death hoax. Could TPB have pulled such timing off? Maybe there might be a slim chance of that possibility, but it is highly unlikely that they would have had the footage to the pepsi fire released for the first time to the public on the 16th July,2009.....and we have here another 7 when adding that date.
If it was 9282 days from Michael's birth to the pepsi incident and another 9282 days to his fake death on the 25th June 2009, I can't see the illuminati releasing the footage and putting their hand up and going yeah, look world, we did this.
It looks more like Michael worked this out to perfection to draw attention to the pepsi incident at the exact center of his life and then finger them for it.
-
I'm trying to follow the theory of Latoya, that Michael was being drugged and manipulated by people close to him. I thought this might have started several months before his "death." So, I drew pictures of 2008 to see if Michael was wrong, very skinny and looking drugged.
He was the anniversary of C. Audigier and was very beautiful and seemingly well.In may 2008:
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/301/moremj2zh3.jpg)
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/328/moremj1wq6.jpg)
And here 2008, october:
(http://www1.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/Michael+Jackson+Shopping+Melrose+Blvd+Jt0CdsK23HGl.jpg)
On this site you can browse photos of 50 days. http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/rcUYPvrx ... el+Jackson (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/rcUYPvrxAmL/Michael+Jackson+Shopping+Melrose+Blvd/msqqpyyA7lr/Michael+Jackson)
So if he was being dominated by terrible people, should not have started in 2008. It would be in 2009, Mrs. Latoya?
But in 2009 he was well too, we have to TII in this show. confused/ confused/
Moreover, these pictures he is not wearing bulletproof vests.
-
Imo, Michael is still alive but will not come back (or show up if he never left), so, in terms of proving that Michael is alive the only possible way to me is if he comes back in flesh and blood and since I don´t see that event happening, I can say that it does not matter how many logic theories we come up with to prove that he is not dead.
To the eyes of the rest of the world we are a bunch of deluded folks who can´t let Michael go and the worst part of it is that to this point after 2 years I am questioning myself as well and accepting that I belong to that pile for real.
May be is time to accept that Michael is dead, it´s the easiest option.
Gema, when the tough gets going everyone takes the easy way out. You shouldn't you have to persevere. Michael is alive and he will come back when the time is right for him. It can be this July, next year, in 10 yrs I have no clue, I am as much in the obscure as you are. I will never give up, I have faith that he will come back. The only thing is, I will not be in this forum for ever either, I love all you guys, even if we bickered, sometimes bickering makes us stronger among eachother. Michael will not do like Elvis. Elvis is alive as well, but I think he has some restrictions to come back since he worked for the DEA. So Gema, and friends please do not give up on our Michael, it is not time to do so. If we do who will he come back to? We are his fans, and we are the only ones who believe in him. Blessings to all my hoax friends.
bearhug
The easiest option is to "let it go" (talking about TS´s post of proving murder vs alive and viceversa) since I for instance can´t prove that this person is alive using the theories we have, even if they sound logic.
His family made an international memorial and funeral, the media reported the death and his family is still confirming how tragic the death was and there is a so called trial on the line...now for next year...because MJ was "murdered".
This is a tuff situation. WE, our theories, against everybody...even against his own family who up to some weeks back were very cryptic as well.
I am not gaining anything proving to the world that MJ is alive, so why bother?
IF MJ is really alive, he must help us out and "give us a sign" but not a cryptic one...after 2 years it becomes boring you know.
I understand what you are saying, it does become boring and frustrating. He has been giving us clues, but vague clues. I guess Ts wants is to think together and find the answer. Sometimes the answer is right there in front of you that you don't see it. It is starring you in the face. When we are stressed nervous we do not think logically, so we need to be cool and collective, and maybe the clue will surface soone then we think. Gema in another words do the best you can and the rest leave it into God's hands. He will help us in finding the truth. This is for everyone in this hoax forum.. Blessings.
-
The murder theory isn't plausible because the accompanying autopsy is inaccurate in regards to Propofol elimination rates.
I have compiled 3 medical journal sources that state the elimination rates of Propofol. They are unlinkable because of the nature of the source, but available as screenshots I made and posted to my blog here: http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2 ... -the-dead/ (http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/michael-jackson-back-from-the-dead/) These sources are also available upon Google search “Propofol half life”.
Source 1
After a single bolus dose, there is a fast distribution from blood into tissues (t1/2a: 1.8 to 8.3 min), high metabolic clearance (t1/2b: 34 to 66 min) and a terminal slow elimination from poorly perfused tissues (t1/2g: 184 to 480 min).
Source 2
…the distribution of the drug from the blood to the tissues after intravenous administration, is very short, perhaps 2 to 3 minutes. The [beta] half-life of the drug, which is basically the elimination half-life, ranges from 30-60 minutes. The half-life, or terminal half-life, during which the drug is eliminated from the third compartment, or tissue fat, ranges from 300 to 700 minutes.
Source 3
The decline in Propofol concentrations following a bolus dose of following the termination of an infusion can be described by a three compartment open model. The first phase is characterized by a very rapid distribution (half-life 2-4 minutes) followed by rapid elimination (half-life 30-60 minutes) and a slower final phase, representative of redistribution of propofol from poorly perfused tissue.
Now the problem that this presents when compared to the autopsy in light of this new information that UCLA docs had Michael heart going for approximately 64 minutes as illustrated by the article’s timeline [http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/765565/Docs-got-brief-heartbeat-1hr-after-superstar-collapsed.html] is that so long as the blood is circulating in the body, the drug is being eliminated.
So if Michael’s blood is circulating for 62 minutes at UCLA, Propofol should ONLY have been present in the fatty tissue upon autopsy and IT IS NOT AT ALL POSSIBLE FOR PROPOFOL TO HAVE BEEN PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM. Recall the autopsy reports of Propofol present within the blood vessels of the eyes. This is simply factually impossible with the properties of this drug. This is a scientific FACT… one of those very rare things that we encounter in the course of this hoax.
…On a side note, CPR will also circulate blood by manually pumping the heart. Blood circulation drives metabolic elimination and CPR alone will account for elimination rates of any drug. Even without this new report of Michael returning from the dead, lifesaving efforts performed at the scene and en route to UCLA should have eliminated all traces of Propofol AT LEAST from the bloodstream, if not surrounding tissue (considering multiple reports that CPR was maintained for over an hour), so this information is not really new… it simply has become particularly damning by making it really really clear… the autopsy simply CANNOT be genuine.
Seems very convenient to me that the time line reported alludes to cardiac activity for 64 minutes, considering the longest period of time from the 3 sources that Propofol will be detectable anywhere other then fatty tissue is 66 minutes. Now assuming Michael received greater then 2 minutes of CPR prior to being admitted to UCLA ER, well, you catch my drift.
-
Meaning, and point being, if MJ was murdered, and he were dead, the autopsy should be accurate... no reason for it not to be... and it's clearly not the case as outlined above.
-
Meaning, and point being, if MJ was murdered, and he were dead, the autopsy should be accurate... no reason for it not to be... and it's clearly not the case as outlined above.
I have often wondered about the whole Propofol thing. Why that medication, why not something else. The only conclusion that I can come up with is that if it was any other drug it would be harder to debunk. Let's say it was Valium, Percocet, or Oxicodone; people overdose on those drugs all of the time. We being the general public would think nothing of it and chances are we would of accepted that as being his cause of death.
I've often wondered about the autopsy report as well. I started a thread (before my computer crashed months ago) asking what it said about MJ's chest, specifically his ribs. Since I didn't get a response I still wonder. Being with the fire department it is mandatory that we get re-certified every year for CPR. It is always talked about through all of the FF and even us Associates that if the ribs aren't cracked or broken it's not done right. It is actually not the ribs breaking but the rib cage breaking from the sternum. Now, it can be argued that that's not a correct statement, and if that's the case then I better notify the entire department as well as the Rescue Squad! Either way I've always wondered about that on the autopsy report and since I don't know where I can find it, I'm stuck asking you wonderful people to search your brains if your able. :oops:
-
In the first place the drug was identified as Diprivan.
Two days later news switched to Propofol and that was it to date. Was a nice twist to watch.
Propofol wasn't a controlled drug at that moment - is it now? DEA stepped in, right?
Some product recalls had to be executed as finished products were contaminated with bacteria.
Propofol is widely being used at dentists and that links the story to James Brown's death.
Propofol has a history of known abuse and addiction among hospital staff. Makes the story believable.
Propofol has a nice name to play with. Makes the product an object of twist.
Propofol has a restricted use - in hospitals or in presence of anaestetics specialist with monitoring equipment - opens a wide field of phantasies about injections, infusions, IV-bags, IV-stands, "milk"... "IV" opens a whole world of phantasy itself. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IV)
All of the above make Propofol a widely variable object of discussions and emotional involvement.
It's a quite impressive catalyst.
Connecting the TS's bills to album "Michael" - Burning money (on "Michael" cover)
Money burning or burning money is the purposeful act of destroying money. In the prototypical example, banknotes are destroyed by literally setting them on fire. Burning money decreases the wealth of the owner without directly enriching any particular party. However, since it reduces the supply of money, it increases the value of the remaining money, increasing (by roughly the same amount as the money burnt) the collective wealth of everyone else who holds money.
Money is usually burned to communicate a message, either for artistic effect, as a form of protest, or as a signal. In some games, a player can sometimes benefit from the ability to burn money (Battle of the sexes). Burning money is illegal in some jurisdictions.
[...]
Symbolism
Pile of paper items on fire; a hand reaches to add money-like bills
Joss paper burned around the Ghost Festival
Publicly burning money can be an act of protest or a kind of artistic statement. Often the point is to emphasize money's intrinsic worthlessness.[1] In 1984, Serge Gainsbourg burned a 500 French franc note on television to protest against heavy taxation.[10]
On 23 August 1994, the K Foundation (an art duo consisting of Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty) burned one million pounds sterling in cash on the Scottish island of Jura. This money represented the bulk of the K Foundation's funds, earned by Drummond and Cauty as The KLF, one of the United Kingdom's most successful pop groups of the early 1990s. The duo have never fully explained their motivations for the burning.[11]
In the 1995 film Dead Presidents, the title sequence directed by Kyle Cooper features close shots of burning U.S. bills; it took two days of shooting and experimenting with the paper to get the effect right.[12]
In the early 18th century, New York City courts would publicly burn the counterfeit bills they gathered, in order to show that they were both dangerous and worthless.[13]
In traditional Chinese ancestor veneration, imitation money in the form of joss paper are ceremonially burned, with the aspiration that the dead may use the money to finance a more comfortable afterlife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_burning
Connecting level 4 "sting" to Michael in a different perspective.
Don't forget the spider. Spiders bite.
It was a black widow.
(http://images.medicinenet.com/images/black_spider1.jpg)
TII spider:
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12400000/This-Is-It-spider-michael-jackson-12460624-1295-850.jpg
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t3846-don-t-forget-the-spider-in-tii-movie
"Spiderman 4" will be coming to theaters in July 2012. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0948470/
Michael is said to have wanted to be "Spiderman"
[BBvideo 425,350:2v9pzawk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ID3XfgEcIA&NR=1[/BBvideo:2v9pzawk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ID3XfgEcIA&NR=1
[BBvideo 425,350:2v9pzawk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BICoImNdlwM[/BBvideo:2v9pzawk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BICoImNdlwM
[BBvideo 425,350:2v9pzawk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bu6aE-yQw&feature=related[/BBvideo:2v9pzawk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bu6aE-yQw&feature=related
[BBvideo 425,350:2v9pzawk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_xlWxhZvVI&feature=player_embedded[/BBvideo:2v9pzawk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_xlWxhZvVI&feature=player_embedded
In TII, Michael is "Spiderman" - just in his own orchestration.
Waiting for the prey to enter his cobweb.
Michael murdered? Nah. MJJ? Maybe. M Joseph J? As we knew him, yep.
Silenced? Not yet.
-
Thank you for the clarification on Propofol Grace perhaps I hadn't thought about all of that. It still doesn't make sense though. If it weren't a hoax and it really was a murder other drugs would be more convincing.
-
This was depressing.
-
Only if you let it my friend. Actually I find this thread very comforting. Unless something astonishing comes out, it just proves more that what everyone on all hoax sites have been working for. We have more evidence that this is a hoax then there being a murder!
Of course this is just my thought.
Chin up! bearhug
-
In the first place the drug was identified as Diprivan.
Two days later news switched to Propofol and that was it to date. Was a nice twist to watch.
Nothing switched ...Diprivan IS Propofol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol)
"Propofol (INN, marketed as Diprivan by AstraZeneca) is a short-acting, intravenously administered hypnotic agent."
-
In the first place the drug was identified as Diprivan.
Two days later news switched to Propofol and that was it to date. Was a nice twist to watch.
Nothing switched ...Diprivan IS Propofol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol)
"Propofol (INN, marketed as Diprivan by AstraZeneca) is a short-acting, intravenously administered hypnotic agent."
I think Grace meant Demerol, because that was what we first heard: Demerol OD.
-
Hey TS. It's me again. I have debated myself out of many an urge to post in the last few days by trying to debunk my musings from the pro murder side of thinking. You can debate [and rightly so] that much of what we are sure are clues are our own unique interpretation of slip ups, such as Jermaine's airport slip and the likes.
However, the timing of hoax events is the strongest proof that this is a planned death hoax. Could TPB have pulled such timing off? Maybe there might be a slim chance of that possibility, but it is highly unlikely that they would have had the footage to the pepsi fire released for the first time to the public on the 16th July,2009.....and we have here another 7 when adding that date.
If it was 9282 days from Michael's birth to the pepsi incident and another 9282 days to his fake death on the 25th June 2009, I can't see the illuminati releasing the footage and putting their hand up and going yeah, look world, we did this.
It looks more like Michael worked this out to perfection to draw attention to the pepsi incident at the exact center of his life and then finger them for it.
Thanks for bringing this up again. This is, in my mind, one of the most important "clues" in existence.
-
PureLove, if MJ only returns next year, he will be 3 and a half years older, so will he have changed enough for us to wonder if it's really him. Maybe he'll have gained some weight again like he has in the past. I can bet there's going to be millions of doubting Thomases who will need to see and hear him speaking, singing, dancing, writing and whatever else to proove its really him, and :oops: because they can't get enough of seeing him. :D
Michael didn't change at all during the past 20-30 years. Here are pictures from 90s and 2009 for us to compare. So I do not think he will be changed in 3 years time. But of course it would be amazing to see him singing again. :)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2uj4j1s.jpg)(http://i53.tinypic.com/fy0jl3.jpg)
-
I dont think the concerts were ever intended to happen, or even that Michael was going to go to London. One of the things that always bothered me was the hiring of Dr. Murray in the first place for the O2 concerts (regardless of who hired him). Does the fact that Murray was Michael's personal (traveling) physician make it legal for him to practice medicine in London? Because I'm pretty sure he isn't licensed to practice there.
-
bec wrote:
Meaning, and point being, if MJ was murdered, and he were dead, the autopsy should be accurate... no reason for it not to be... and it's clearly not the case as outlined above
interesting videos of the autopsy, but there are several to watch them
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNf54sftjPM[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNf54sft ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNf54sftjPM&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhBHL6yxpf4[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhBHL6yx ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhBHL6yxpf4&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdY4Mx31EY[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdY4Mx3 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdY4Mx31EY&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC_CfvrEAHY[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC_CfvrE ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC_CfvrEAHY&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRTy82tpQ-c[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRTy82tp ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRTy82tpQ-c&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFSUhl1c57A[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFSUhl1c ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFSUhl1c57A&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79yacW2ozcQ[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79yacW2o ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79yacW2ozcQ&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrhsHXYAkEI[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrhsHXYA ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrhsHXYAkEI&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_j4yeixNU[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_j4yei ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_j4yeixNU&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92znxCwTMRA[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92znxCwT ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92znxCwTMRA&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIzYCn5YqxA[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIzYCn5Y ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIzYCn5YqxA&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvDwPsGUqwU[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvDwPsGU ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvDwPsGUqwU&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxJZ0Hr_KA[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxJZ0Hr ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxJZ0Hr_KA&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXbr4kVYz5Q[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXbr4kVY ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXbr4kVYz5Q&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9Sgj22Ak0[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9Sgj22 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9Sgj22Ak0&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz9kV8bYxxc[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz9kV8bY ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz9kV8bYxxc&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzQAGLA05E[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzQAGLA ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzQAGLA05E&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wLRJitXiY[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wLRJit ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wLRJitXiY&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVnFUzANWHA[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVnFUzAN ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVnFUzANWHA&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze2-zEdPuFQ[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze2-zEdP ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze2-zEdPuFQ&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTCYePvekpU[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTCYePve ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTCYePvekpU&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK6oq9098Dk[/youtube]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK6oq909 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK6oq9098Dk&feature=player_embedded)<!-- m -->
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa142/xeduced/ViendoTele.gif)
-
PureLove, if MJ only returns next year, he will be 3 and a half years older, so will he have changed enough for us to wonder if it's really him. Maybe he'll have gained some weight again like he has in the past. I can bet there's going to be millions of doubting Thomases who will need to see and hear him speaking, singing, dancing, writing and whatever else to proove its really him, and <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> because they can't get enough of seeing him. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Michael didn't change at all during the past 20-30 years. Here are pictures from 90s and 2009 for us to compare. So I do not think he will be changed in 3 years time. But of course it would be amazing to see him singing again. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2uj4j1s.jpg)(http://i53.tinypic.com/fy0jl3.jpg)
[font=cursive:5s5txu52]Wow, see, to ME, Michael looks sooooooo different to me in these two pics. I love the first one......up turned nose...sweet smile. The next, looks like his nose is cut short and like he has a dental piece in his mouth filling out his top lip. Also, I think he had ... I don't know what it's called, but, notice how his smile in the later years, appears to pull upward...like it he had a tuck behind his ears.
I know a lot of you will disagree, but I've been studying his face a lot of years... over 40 and I see it. (makes me think didn't the AR say that he had same scars behind his ears?? I think the AR is made up of factual things and fake things, because WE know too much about Michael's physical body to not have some things be correct.
Love the pics <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->[/font:5s5txu52]
-
I dont think the concerts were ever intended to happen, or even that Michael was going to go to London. One of the things that always bothered me was the hiring of Dr. Murray in the first place for the O2 concerts (regardless of who hired him). Does the fact that Murray was Michael's personal (traveling) physician make it legal for him to practice medicine in London? Because I'm pretty sure he isn't licensed to practice there.
I had totally forgotten about that. I'm sure there's something somewhere that states it specifically! But I know I remember reading it.
It's amazing how one conversation turns to another and past evidence is brought back up and it makes more sense. Due to my computer crashing I haven't been on here in months (and able to post). I hope with doing so now it's worth while and I'm able to help out where I can.
-
The murder theory isn't plausible because the accompanying autopsy is inaccurate in regards to Propofol elimination rates.
I have compiled 3 medical journal sources that state the elimination rates of Propofol. They are unlinkable because of the nature of the source, but available as screenshots I made and posted to my blog here: http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2 ... -the-dead/ (http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/michael-jackson-back-from-the-dead/) These sources are also available upon Google search “Propofol half life”.
Source 1
After a single bolus dose, there is a fast distribution from blood into tissues (t1/2a: 1.8 to 8.3 min), high metabolic clearance (t1/2b: 34 to 66 min) and a terminal slow elimination from poorly perfused tissues (t1/2g: 184 to 480 min).
Source 2
…the distribution of the drug from the blood to the tissues after intravenous administration, is very short, perhaps 2 to 3 minutes. The [beta] half-life of the drug, which is basically the elimination half-life, ranges from 30-60 minutes. The half-life, or terminal half-life, during which the drug is eliminated from the third compartment, or tissue fat, ranges from 300 to 700 minutes.
Source 3
The decline in Propofol concentrations following a bolus dose of following the termination of an infusion can be described by a three compartment open model. The first phase is characterized by a very rapid distribution (half-life 2-4 minutes) followed by rapid elimination (half-life 30-60 minutes) and a slower final phase, representative of redistribution of propofol from poorly perfused tissue.
Now the problem that this presents when compared to the autopsy in light of this new information that UCLA docs had Michael heart going for approximately 64 minutes as illustrated by the article’s timeline [http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/765565/Docs-got-brief-heartbeat-1hr-after-superstar-collapsed.html] is that so long as the blood is circulating in the body, the drug is being eliminated.
So if Michael’s blood is circulating for 62 minutes at UCLA, Propofol should ONLY have been present in the fatty tissue upon autopsy and IT IS NOT AT ALL POSSIBLE FOR PROPOFOL TO HAVE BEEN PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM. Recall the autopsy reports of Propofol present within the blood vessels of the eyes. This is simply factually impossible with the properties of this drug. This is a scientific FACT… one of those very rare things that we encounter in the course of this hoax.
…On a side note, CPR will also circulate blood by manually pumping the heart. Blood circulation drives metabolic elimination and CPR alone will account for elimination rates of any drug. Even without this new report of Michael returning from the dead, lifesaving efforts performed at the scene and en route to UCLA should have eliminated all traces of Propofol AT LEAST from the bloodstream, if not surrounding tissue (considering multiple reports that CPR was maintained for over an hour), so this information is not really new… it simply has become particularly damning by making it really really clear… the autopsy simply CANNOT be genuine.
Seems very convenient to me that the time line reported alludes to cardiac activity for 64 minutes, considering the longest period of time from the 3 sources that Propofol will be detectable anywhere other then fatty tissue is 66 minutes. Now assuming Michael received greater then 2 minutes of CPR prior to being admitted to UCLA ER, well, you catch my drift.
Wow bec this is a great post. Thank you for putting it all together. I remember reading all about propofol and how it works etc. When they said the drug was in the eye cavity, I was very curious. Your findings make it so clear-cut impossible...given what we were told happened (CPR for x-amount of time etc). It does make me wonder all over again....what exactly happened the morning of June 25th, 2009. 2 years later things like the AR report, the paramedic report, the death certificate etc. are still such a pile of direct mis-information. Why can't the media ask these questions?
Wouldn't any of the hundreds of doctors interviewed be able to catch the propofol distribution?
OK don't shoot me down, lol. One more time for gematria:
113 = propofol = This Is It
It's just freaky to me....really freaky. The drug that supposedly killed Michael, has the exact gematria number match of his comeback concert title. If I understand it.......saying he was killed by propofol instead of saying Diprivan; is like saying he used acetaminophen instead of Tylenol for a headache. Why not just use the trade name of Diprivan?
Anyways..have a great day!
Blessings to you all!
-
Thank you wishingstar, I'm glad you enjoyed it. This is really old, I put that together back on 3/29/10. I gave up researching like that because it was sort of like, time after time and subject after subject, ok it's factually impossible for Michael to be dead... so what? He's still gone and we still wait. Dead end investigation over and over. Pardon the pun.
But now along comes TS and level 5 and I get to use some of it here. Squee.
-
Im_convincedmjalive wrote
I am now going to talk about the threats and what has been said the reason for them are. Most people think it is because of his catalog. Some have even said it is because he is worth more dead than alive. In a carnal/fleshly world that is a good simple explanation for the threats. That is what Michael has said over and over because IMO the real reason will be harder for most people to accept. I say this because I have watched the reactions of people regarding the NWO and alot of people still refuse to see what is right in front of their face.
I am going to tell my story of the thought/vision that came to me yesterday while I was awake regarding the real reason MJ was/is such a threat to the NWO and he had/has to be taken out by any means necessary. Example the accusations of child molestation.
The NWO was hoping to destroy his reputation so that the public would no longer want to listen to MJ and his messages of awareness, awakening and hope. I hadn’t gave much thought to this subject other than I felt there was a bigger reason than his catalog why he was being threatened. I have always believed he was in danger.
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se) ... ersion=NIV
____________________________________
I'd like to add a question about your thoughts ....
Daniel chapter 7 describes how the horn of the last beast (the Antichrist, the king of the last great empire) will be destroyed before setting up the messianic kingdom.
Does not it seem that he refers to it as a trial, with a judge, jury and millions of people who are watching?
Daniel 7
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court[a] was seated,
And the books were opened.
13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
-
With my bad english I'm here now and forever.... mj_dance/ lolol/ bearhug typing/
moonwalk_/
-
Im_convincedmjalive wrote
I am now going to talk about the threats and what has been said the reason for them are. Most people think it is because of his catalog. Some have even said it is because he is worth more dead than alive. In a carnal/fleshly world that is a good simple explanation for the threats. That is what Michael has said over and over because IMO the real reason will be harder for most people to accept. I say this because I have watched the reactions of people regarding the NWO and alot of people still refuse to see what is right in front of their face.
I am going to tell my story of the thought/vision that came to me yesterday while I was awake regarding the real reason MJ was/is such a threat to the NWO and he had/has to be taken out by any means necessary. Example the accusations of child molestation.
The NWO was hoping to destroy his reputation so that the public would no longer want to listen to MJ and his messages of awareness, awakening and hope. I hadn’t gave much thought to this subject other than I felt there was a bigger reason than his catalog why he was being threatened. I have always believed he was in danger.
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se) ... ersion=NIV
____________________________________
I'd like to add a question about your thoughts ....
Daniel chapter 7 describes how the horn of the last beast (the Antichrist, the king of the last great empire) will be destroyed before setting up the messianic kingdom.
Does not it seem that he refers to it as a trial, with a judge, jury and millions of people who are watching?
Daniel 7
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court[a] was seated,
And the books were opened.
13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
Hey- thanks for the question. mj_dance/
I need to explain something before I continue. First I am not learned well enough in bible studies to know every scripture. I do understand scripture as I read it when it is brought up. I do know some things from my past being reborn in Christ in 94 but I had backslided and ignored the word for a long time. I only started to dig into the word of God again because of Michael. When I get a vision/thought it is usually a jolt in my head while I am awake, meaning it comes quickly and it is very limited in details. I have to then interpret it fully from the idea planted. The words I wrote were my interpretation of the idea of NWO-threat-Michael. I do not get this often and when I do it is very right on. It has happened outside of this hoax in my personal life in 2003. I also get more detailed ones when I am asleep.
So in saying all that I understand the vision Daniel had from reading it to be that the NWO (anti-christ, satan, NWO kingdom) is now in power and the saints are being bothered by this for now. We are at war with those who want to control us (NWO). (It appears they are winning for now because so many people are in a state of fear). Then we get favor from the most high-God. He is the one being described sitting in Judgement on the throne. The book is opened and we are going to be judged by God. The one like the son of man comes. This is Jesus. He destroys the NWO (satan) and begins his reign and those who made it through will be there in his kingdom.
This is how I can explain it in my words. But after you asked this question I was curious to see someone elses view point so I found a link and IMO because of what I have read; this link to the site will be helpful. I am picky when it comes to others view point of the word of God but I think this is right on target or as close as it gets. http://danielbibleprophecy.org/daniel7.html (http://danielbibleprophecy.org/daniel7.html)
Peace beerchug
-
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence?
Why is it the time to test our hoax evidence TS suspicious// ?
Looks like you are the man with the plan....but we don't know where you are taking us errrr
-
PureLove, if MJ only returns next year, he will be 3 and a half years older, so will he have changed enough for us to wonder if it's really him. Maybe he'll have gained some weight again like he has in the past. I can bet there's going to be millions of doubting Thomases who will need to see and hear him speaking, singing, dancing, writing and whatever else to proove its really him, and <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> because they can't get enough of seeing him. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Michael didn't change at all during the past 20-30 years. Here are pictures from 90s and 2009 for us to compare. So I do not think he will be changed in 3 years time. But of course it would be amazing to see him singing again. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2uj4j1s.jpg)(http://i53.tinypic.com/fy0jl3.jpg)
[font=cursive:11bo8i3b]Wow, see, to ME, Michael looks sooooooo different to me in these two pics. I love the first one......up turned nose...sweet smile. The next, looks like his nose is cut short and like he has a dental piece in his mouth filling out his top lip. Also, I think he had ... I don't know what it's called, but, notice how his smile in the later years, appears to pull upward...like it he had a tuck behind his ears.
I know a lot of you will disagree, but I've been studying his face a lot of years... over 40 and I see it. (makes me think didn't the AR say that he had same scars behind his ears?? I think the AR is made up of factual things and fake things, because WE know too much about Michael's physical body to not have some things be correct.
Love the pics <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->[/font:11bo8i3b]
He's the same. You see his nose and teeth different because the picture is not a sharp one. That was a small pic and they tried ot make it bigger and of course it lost its clearness. That is the reason why you think he looks different. Wish my english was better to tell you detailed. I had photography lesson as well at university but I can not explain it better in english. He didn't get any older, he looks amazing. That's what I was trying to show. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> That's the reason why I do not believe he will be changed in 3 years because he didn't change at all in the past 25 years.
-
PureLove, if MJ only returns next year, he will be 3 and a half years older, so will he have changed enough for us to wonder if it's really him. Maybe he'll have gained some weight again like he has in the past. I can bet there's going to be millions of doubting Thomases who will need to see and hear him speaking, singing, dancing, writing and whatever else to proove its really him, and <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> because they can't get enough of seeing him. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Michael didn't change at all during the past 20-30 years. Here are pictures from 90s and 2009 for us to compare. So I do not think he will be changed in 3 years time. But of course it would be amazing to see him singing again. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2uj4j1s.jpg)(http://i53.tinypic.com/fy0jl3.jpg)
[font=cursive:1ni1ru8w]Wow, see, to ME, Michael looks sooooooo different to me in these two pics. I love the first one......up turned nose...sweet smile. The next, looks like his nose is cut short and like he has a dental piece in his mouth filling out his top lip. Also, I think he had ... I don't know what it's called, but, notice how his smile in the later years, appears to pull upward...like it he had a tuck behind his ears.
I know a lot of you will disagree, but I've been studying his face a lot of years... over 40 and I see it. (makes me think didn't the AR say that he had same scars behind his ears?? I think the AR is made up of factual things and fake things, because WE know too much about Michael's physical body to not have some things be correct.
Love the pics <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->[/font:1ni1ru8w]
He's the same. You see his nose and teeth different because the picture is not a sharp one. That was a small pic and they tried ot make it bigger and of course it lost its clearness. That is the reason why you think he looks different. Wish my english was better to tell you detailed. I had photography lesson as well at university but I can not explain it better in english. He didn't get any older, he looks amazing. That's what I was trying to show. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> That's the reason why I do not believe he will be changed in 3 years because he didn't change at all in the past 25 years.
Sorry, I totally disagree on this one <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic, I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
-
He's the same. You see his nose and teeth different because the picture is not a sharp one. That was a small pic and they tried ot make it bigger and of course it lost its clearness. That is the reason why you think he looks different. Wish my english was better to tell you detailed. I had photography lesson as well at university but I can not explain it better in english. He didn't get any older, he looks amazing. That's what I was trying to show. :) That's the reason why I do not believe he will be changed in 3 years because he didn't change at all in the past 25 years.
Sorry, I totally disagree on this one :)
That's ok babes. bearhug We don't need to agree about everything. Maybe it is just me that thinks Michael looks the same, still amazing and young like he was 20 years ago.
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic,[highlight=#bf8080:28tol9jj]I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes[/highlight:28tol9jj]. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
;) yep yep yep
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic, I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
That was Michael just a night before he made the 02 speech. He made a chat with the fans and allowed them taking pictures. No double or impersonator sounds or looks exactly like him imho. I had the other pic if I could find it. I talked with one of these girls and she was so excited to meet Michael. And I agree with you that he didn't change at all since the late 80s. Here is the real picture.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/33pgcd3.jpg)
And another one for the comparison.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/33wbd68.jpg)
-
Found the other pic.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/29wvbib.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/fy0jl3.jpg)
-
I don't find he changed so much.. You can see that in 2009 picture his neck has wrinkles, but it is understandable he was 50 on that picture. Let me tell you he is still hot to trot.. I wouldn't mind trotting him around lolol/ Blessings.
-
Im_convincedmjalive
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se) ... ersion=NIV
I agree it's so much more than his catalogue, which is in my opinion simply a front. The reason has an biblical, planetary, historical climactic significance and reason. HIStory in the making. The "Michael" who stands in Daniel, is according to the Jehovah Witnesses, the pre-incarnate Christ. Everything in this MJ hoax, is in layers--depends on how deep a layer you which to explore, if you have an open mind and 'Believe'. The Illuminati have an authority over themselves as well, possibly NWO, maybe Commitee of 300 (family dynasties), and over them possibly angelic/alien entities who ultimately have Satan in charge (the eye of the pyramid). We have to follow the chain of command to the top. Tom Sneddon was a lowly pitiful puppet. But God is Creator and in control of it all. Love will win!
Bec, I was finding some very good reading on your blog!
-
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. bounce/
Elsa wrote:
paula-c wrote:
I continue thinking that this photo say very much
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4746/fbii.jpg)
There are 3 smiling, 3 wearing sunglasses, 3 sports shirts each with a set of three - 3 polo players, 3 yellow stripes and a 3 leaf clover. Does that mean something?
And the FBI, Marlon do not use dark spectacles in this photo
I had been thinking that maybe the multiples of three in the photo represent a date. Then I had some kind of epiphany. TS explained the use of the number/alphabet code in THIS IS IT. The I's represent 999.
If F=6, B=2, I=9 then FBI is 6-2-9
This is the 'death' date - except that the 50 is missing.
06-25-09
A hoax smiley for you TS afraid/
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic, I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
[font=cursive:2cqxk9g4]Yeah, I agree with this too. I think that first pic is Michael, and the best one of the 4 and it's a much older one. One with "softer" features. As the aged he lost that fatty layer under his skin, as we all do. We loose the collagen and elasticity. Of course Michael remained beautiful, but that don't mean he didn't age..or have work done. HELL, I'd do it if I could afford it, especially with the world looking and criticizing him. And he was a perfectionist and had a bad self image.
I think we have to be careful when we try to elevate Michael to a demi-god status thinking he never ages or is on earth to save the world. He is human, ages, and all. He was very blessed in his life to be able to deliver messages to the earth and he gave over thanks to God for that. But, Michael with his beliefs, would never think himself a savior. IMO. [/font:2cqxk9g4]
-
Im_convincedmjalive
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
<!-- m -->http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se)<!-- m --> ... ersion=NIV
I agree it's so much more than his catalogue, which is in my opinion simply a front. The reason has an biblical, planetary, historical climactic significance and reason. HIStory in the making. The "Michael" who stands in Daniel, is according to the Jehovah Witnesses, the pre-incarnate Christ.
[font=cursive:yn0bjwtj]WOW, you are right. That is what we believe. And now That Michael, in the Bible, has assended to heaven. He died as Jesus, and is ruling in heaven along side his father Jehovah. He was the first of creations. This is JW's beliefs. I'm surprised you knew that part of our beliefs <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
[/font:yn0bjwtj] Everything in this MJ hoax, is in layers--depends on how deep a layer you which to explore, if you have an open mind and 'Believe'. The Illuminati have an authority over themselves as well, possibly NWO, maybe Commitee of 300 (family dynasties), and over them possibly angelic/alien entities who ultimately have Satan in charge (the eye of the pyramid). We have to follow the chain of command to the top. Tom Sneddon was a lowly pitiful puppet. But God is Creator and in control of it all. Love will win!
Bec, I was finding some very good reading on your blog!
-
You guys are amazing! So many great thoughts and theories, just brilliant! *clapping* :)
The main question (as many of your have mentioned) remains WHY IN THE WORLD "THEY" WOULD FOLLOW THE HOAX PLAN? What could be their motive to waist so much time on a very small group of people?
Money?! - What kind of profit "they" can get from us? All forums are free, with no advertisements on it. To make us buy CD's and DVD's? Well all non believers are buying it anyway. So that TMZ could profit from us? There are millions of people reading TMZ every single day and by far not all of them are MJ's fans, to go through all this trouble just to get a couple (a couple of thousands) more clicks on their page? Nope! To get us buy all the books people (family and friends) write? The stories in the books are actually more focused on non believers, because they are all about how Michael was "murdered" by "them", AEG, Sony, CM, Branca, FD etc. Of course believers would buy it too, but only out of curiosity to compare stories and find something fishy :lol:. But how much money can a book bring? it's not like they are selling Harry Potter or Twilight Saga. geek/
So here is my VERY crazy theory :mrgreen:
So "they" found out about Michael's plan to hoax his death, but they didn't steal his notes (assume for a minute that every little detail was written down) but simply copied them. That way Michael wouldn't know that "they" know about his hoax plan. They made sure somehow that everyone who is involved in hoax will be following hoax plan even if Michael really died.
Why would they want for Michael's fans to Believe that he is alive? I found a very sloppy answer (at least something geek/ ) to that question. I was watching David Icke's speech about "them" and one part really caught my attention. Start watching at 5:00 or watch a whole video if you wish. :) (I'm NOT saying that everything he says is true, but it's sure interesting)
[BBvideo 425,350:2nvfoilq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NArKdC4FoI[/BBvideo:2nvfoilq]
Maybe when they stole Michael's notes they wanted to create another so called "religion" for Michael's fans to believe in. So that millions of people would give their energy for "them" to feed on it. Sounds crazy but somehow possible. :lol:
Here is a debunk to my own theory:
1)The plan obviously didn't work! In the first year of hoax they had a great chance to make most of Michael's fans into believers. Because people were still very lost and confused, they couldn't let go of Michael and if "they" made some kind of strong clue. Something like force family (if they are under threat, because there is no other way they could trick family into hoax) talk about hoax even more. Fans could have fallen for it and Ta ta... here are your millions of believers, lot's of energy and an easy way to manipulate us. And "they" are happy, thinking how smart and smooth "they" are! rr/ But why bother so much with few thousands of people for 2 years?????!!!!!! Send TS to us, whom more than half of believers don't even like? I don't see any reason in it, if you do please let me know! :)
2) Why let us know about NWO and "them"? Why try to awake us? Why tell us that Media is lying to us? Why try to be so nice? Yes in the beginning it could have been as part of a new "religion", there always must be Good and Evil, so that we'll have more faith in Michael. But for 2 years????!!!! Without any profit from us??? Really????!!!! :roll:
L.O.V.E to all! :D
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic, I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
Souza.... THIS is E casanova:
(http://ratpackimpersonators.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/ecasamj.jpg)
(doesn't look the same!)
but why....
is he wearing the same jacket as 02 Michael???/
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i3BNloujcsw/SrKczARxGxI/AAAAAAAAAGs/DIdL9FzVbec/s400/ecasanova12.JPG)
confused/ suspicious//
-
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. bounce/
Elsa wrote:
paula-c wrote:
I continue thinking that this photo say very much
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4746/fbii.jpg)
There are 3 smiling, 3 wearing sunglasses, 3 sports shirts each with a set of three - 3 polo players, 3 yellow stripes and a 3 leaf clover. Does that mean something?
And the FBI, Marlon do not use dark spectacles in this photo
I had been thinking that maybe the multiples of three in the photo represent a date. Then I had some kind of epiphany. TS explained the use of the number/alphabet code in THIS IS IT. The I's represent 999.
If F=6, B=2, I=9 then FBI is 6-2-9
This is the 'death' date - except that the 50 is missing.
06-25-09
A hoax smiley for you TS afraid/
Elsa...you're brilliant! Actually you're all brilliant! But this is amazing!
F B I
6 2 9
yes, with out the 50...50 years old
also adds to 17....the tour bus
what is is about the number 17...it pops up a lot.....what is on the 17th page of the FBI report?
62+9= 71
71 was the ambulance
6+29= 35 any thoughts about 35?
Just thinking out loud here.......
Blessings!
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic, I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
Souza.... THIS is E casanova:
(http://ratpackimpersonators.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/ecasamj.jpg)
(doesn't look the same!)
but why....
is he wearing the same jacket as 02 Michael???/
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i3BNloujcsw/SrKczARxGxI/AAAAAAAAAGs/DIdL9FzVbec/s400/ecasanova12.JPG)
<!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// -->
[font=cursive:1dk5ziv0]Tell me please, I see E Casanova in the first pic...but are you saying that the second is also? Because, the second sure don't look like Michael to me either unless he's had surgery. It's the area above the top lip, and the outer corners of his mouth reaching upwards. TO ME....[/font:1dk5ziv0]
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic, I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
That was Michael just a night before he made the 02 speech. He made a chat with the fans and allowed them taking pictures. No double or impersonator sounds or looks exactly like him imho. I had the other pic if I could find it. I talked with one of these girls and she was so excited to meet Michael. And I agree with you that he didn't change at all since the late 80s. Here is the real picture.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/33pgcd3.jpg)
And another one for the comparison.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/33wbd68.jpg)
lolol/ [offtopic:3atx85m2]Michael was so cute in 2009! I think her features have not changed much, but he was more charming at age 50![/offtopic:3atx85m2]
-
[font=cursive:3kc353ue]
I think we have to be careful when we try to elevate Michael to a demi-god status thinking he never ages or is on earth to save the world. He is human, ages, and all. He was very blessed in his life to be able to deliver messages to the earth and he gave over thanks to God for that. But, Michael with his beliefs, would never think himself a savior. IMO. [/font:3kc353ue]
Let's not twist things, ok? I never said that Michael is God and doesn't age. He looks the same to me and he looks amazing still. Noone here wrote that he is God. So pls do not take the subject there.
02 Michael was NOT Ecas or any other double. It was Michael himself. This is my humble opinion of course.
This is getting off-topic.
-
Girlie....I'm not necessarily meaning that for YOU. Sorry. I don't mean to offend. I just know there's a lot going that way on here is all and I tried to tie it in with some of the conversations in this thread.
Alrighty :)
-
Girlie....I'm not necessarily meaning that for YOU. Sorry. I don't mean to offend. I just know there's a lot going that way on here is all and I tried to tie it in with some of the conversations in this thread.
Alrighty :)
Alrighty. :) I thought that you wrote it for me because I'm the one who wrote he didn't age and change at all. That's ok if you didn't write it to me. But I really do not like when people feel the need of reminding that Michael is not God, like we already don't know it. You know what I'm saying? He looks amazing but this has nothing to do with being God. Anyways, this is not a good topic to discuss about. Let's get back to topic. ;)
-
fordtocarr, I know you meant me, not PureLove, who was saying one thing about saviours and I just took it further. I think we all have some divine in us, and that we will all one day be transformed to live forever, with not one in hell. It all depends on your view of the Jesus figure as the Christian faith believes him to be and one's understanding of the purpose of the Bible, and mine is unorthodox for sure. I think Michael, TS, Back and Front--all use the Scriptures for their own unique purposes as it suits them. Michael sings that there is ONE religion, and that is LOVE. I know this is off topic, but still relates to the Illuminati and TPTB, and Michael's possible relationship with/opposing it. I'm just trying to connect dots with no limitations or boxes, with all the clues, visuals, insight that has been collected these 2 years by so many. God the Creator of the Universe has no body but is Spirit only, and directs and chooses Special Ones as He wishes (collectively probably fills every atom). On this forum we have Christians, Muslims, Atheists, JW's, and other world views-- one of which is mine. What we are really trying to decipher here is what Michael was/is thinking, planning or what God's plan is for him. I believe in Michael and am willing to follow this road [glow=red:3g6lqpp1]wherever[/glow:3g6lqpp1] it leads to. It's hard for me to skirt around this issue because to me it's at the centre of everything Michael does, but I will out of respect for others that I know it offends. respect/
-
fordtocarr, I know you meant me, not PureLove, who was saying one thing about saviours and I just took it further. I think we all have some divine in us, and that we will all one day be transformed to live forever, with not one in hell. It all depends on your view of the Jesus figure as the Christian faith believes him to be and one's understanding of the purpose of the Bible, and mine is unorthodox for sure. I think Michael, TS, Back and Front--all use the Scriptures for their own unique purposes as it suits them. Michael sings that there is ONE religion, and that is LOVE. I know this is off topic, but still relates to the Illuminati and TPTB, and Michael's possible relationship with/opposing it. I'm just trying to connect dots with no limitations or boxes, with all the clues, visuals, insight that has been collected these 2 years by so many. God the Creator of the Universe has no body but is Spirit only, and directs and chooses Special Ones as He wishes (collectively probably fills every atom). On this forum we have Christians, Muslims, Atheists, JW's, and other world views-- one of which is mine. What we are really trying to decipher here is what Michael was/is thinking, planning or what God's plan is for him. I believe in Michael and am willing to follow this road [glow=red:2n66oxd0]wherever[/glow:2n66oxd0] it leads to. It's hard for me to skirt around this issue because to me it's at the centre of everything Michael does, but I will out of respect for others that I know it offends. <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->
[font=cursive:2n66oxd0]Well, I'm sorry to you too if I offended you. Geez, why is it alright for some to say things which have been stated, but not for me to disagree and state mine?
I know you believe what you say, as do I. I simply stated how I feel just as you and others do. I never tried to condemn or may anyone feel badly, it's just that "I" don't believe that Michael is the archangel and "I" don't believe Michael claimed to be either. Isn't it alright that I say that if you can say you think so?
I'm sorry you may be offended. Genuinely.
And I tried to make my comment tied to the things that were being discussed, but I see that it is getting off topic. That said..once again, I'm sorry I disagreed with you and perhaps offended anyone.[/font:2n66oxd0]
-
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
-
We all entertain our personal theories based on our perception of things, our beliefs, etc. I think the best way to operate in a situation such as this, is to go with the "I don't know" state of mind and hence be open minded to the Truth when it is revealed. :)
-
We aren't the only ones who have thought of this.
(http://i1.exhibit-e.com/davidlachapelle/b488417b.jpg)
http://www.davidlachapelle.com/series/michael-jackson/ (http://www.davidlachapelle.com/series/michael-jackson/)
Those of us who have made reference to Michael being prophesied in the bible (which ever way someone views him) is not meant to be disrespectful to those who chose not to believe. We each have an individual interpretation. Some chose to see him as ArchAngel Michael, some chose to see him as the pre-incarnate of Jesus, and some of us chose to see him as a figure who is prophesied in Daniel as a Chief Prince of God's Army-(a man/messenger) chosen by God for our times. This should not be a source of threat to anyone or a debate. It is what it is how ever you see it.
In the end The Troot will Prevail!
rr/
-
did i not read it correctly or did ts say there were no limits on the topics in this thread?
as for the topic at hand i wish to hell there was some way to get down to the nitty gritty about it. settled , signed sealed and delivered from michaels lips to our ears . it has been a reoccurring problem and it is divisive. humm maybe that is the point.
-
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
-
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
Ohhhhhhh, you're right *face*palm*, I forgot :oops:
-
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
this song was written by r. kelly
sorry . guess i'm out for now
-
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
Ohhhhhhh, you're right *face*palm*, I forgot :oops:
I wouldn't have known that except for the first time I heard the song (2 years ago isn't that a shame) I looked up the lyrics and saw it.
-
I do not think Mike's catalogue is the reason he had to be taken down either. The catalogue is worth a lot, I agree, but it's nothing if you look at what 'they' own. The catalogue is change compared to that. The reason he had to be taken down is because they know he is the one that can take THEM down. They have seen him become more and more powerful, loved and known and they also saw he spits on them and has his own mission; to HEAL this world that is infected by greed, selfishness and evil. If he would have 100 fans, they wouldn't bother, but he has millions, if not billions. People from all over the world, from all religions, love him deeply. I don't think there is a person on earth who does not know who he is and what he stands for. That is why he is dangerous to them: too much power that he uses in the name of LOVE and not in the name of evil. He's not Jesus, he is Jesus-like. Like Jesus, I truly believe he will shake this earth so drastically by raising from the dead, that it will change our complete way of thinking and how we treat each other. It's meant to be, it's fate. They might try to prevent it from happening, but they won't succeed because it is written in the stars. The hippies were labelled as lunatics because they were right, like we are labelled as lunatics. We're simply modern day hippies. TS, I know it's not irrefutable proof, but history proves my point and that is enough for me.
As for other proof, to get back on topic, we have the faked funeral:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuC-Q--u0UE[/youtube]
If he were really murdered, there would be no use in staging a funeral. You only stage a funeral in a movie studio if you are making a movie, otherwise you could have just used live footage since you really would have a body to put six feet under. Same with the ambulance picture, why a staged picture? Makes no sense. To make it look like a hoax? With what purpose? To cover up murder? Makes no sense, but maybe you can give me a logical explanation mr. D. Advocate.
-
What if there were more than one group after him? What if they were trying to take him down because of his catalogue and like you said, illuminati was trying to take him down because they knew he is the only one who can take them down? Maybe it was both the Estate and the illuminati or maybe the mafia were all after him. We do not know how much in danger he was and who exactly threatened him. I'm trying to write the worst scenario.
I absolutely agree with you about the funeral Souza. There was no need for a green screened funeral if he was gone for real. When I told about this to some non-believers, they told me that, maybe the family wanted the scene/the view looked better. Why would they bother to make the view look better? Their son, brother is "dead", they would have been in a big shock. Who would care about the view? So, I agree with what you said about the funeral, and about the ambo pic too.
TS had better start to debunk our hoax proofs. That would take a long time to debunk them all. But what I wonder is, how is he going to debunk his $999 award numerology proof. Can't wait. :) bounce/
-
I do not think Mike's catalogue is the reason he had to be taken down either. The catalogue is worth a lot, I agree, but it's nothing if you look at what 'they' own. The catalogue is change compared to that. The reason he had to be taken down is because they know he is the one that can take THEM down. They have seen him become more and more powerful, loved and known and they also saw he spits on them and has his own mission; to HEAL this world that is infected by greed, selfishness and evil. If he would have 100 fans, they wouldn't bother, but he has millions, if not billions. People from all over the world, from all religions, love him deeply. I don't think there is a person on earth who does not know who he is and what he stands for. That is why he is dangerous to them: too much power that he uses in the name of LOVE and not in the name of evil. He's not Jesus, he is Jesus-like. Like Jesus, I truly believe he will shake this earth so drastically by raising from the dead, that it will change our complete way of thinking and how we treat each other. It's meant to be, it's fate. They might try to prevent it from happening, but they won't succeed because it is written in the stars. The hippies were labelled as lunatics because they were right, like we are labelled as lunatics. We're simply modern day hippies. TS, I know it's not irrefutable proof, but history proves my point and that is enough for me.
As for other proof, to get back on topic, we have the faked funeral:
[BBvideo 425,350:3hsslcbg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuC-Q--u0UE[/BBvideo:3hsslcbg]
If he were really murdered, there would be no use in staging a funeral. You only stage a funeral in a movie studio if you are making a movie, otherwise you could have just used live footage since you really would have a body to put six feet under. Same with the ambulance picture, why a staged picture? Makes no sense. To make it look like a hoax? With what purpose? To cover up murder? Makes no sense, but maybe you can give me a logical explanation mr. D. Advocate.
I have to agree with you I don't think he was murdered for his catalog either. The only thing I question is why now? MJ has been out of the spotlight for years, I would think it would make more sense to do it while he was on top of the game. The O2 announcement wasn't too huge here, I know I didn't hear about it until June 25th.
I also found a video to go along with yours, I've brought it up before (the first site), it has always sat strange with me and I don't know why. Facial expressions speak a million words! If you watch at the very beginning, the female wearing the flowered dress. She waves once and then has this expression on her face that I can't really pin point. To me its sort of like a "ok we're here I hope this goes well" kind of expression.
Let me know what you think. It's either I'm right on with my feeling or I'm completely wrong. I hope I embed this right, I haven't done this before. If not can someone help?
http://youtu.be/4qlnGWwU7_8 (http://youtu.be/4qlnGWwU7_8)
-
But what I wonder is, how is he going to debunk his $999 award numerology proof. Can't wait. :) bounce/
I tried, and it's not possible. Not even Einstein would be able to claim the $999 award if he were alive. I am not Einstein, but I have enough math skills to know that my results are pretty close, if not exact.
-
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls respect/.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
-
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls respect/.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
I also agree with looking at every angle, even ones we don't 'like' or are 'uncomfortable' with. And if any 'believer' has not looked at, or at least thought of, this angle...well, then they haven't done a thorough investigation IMO. So, I am in NO way bashing you or anyone who has thought of this angle because I, myself, have given it some thought as well. However, since none of us can prove anything at this point beyond the shadow of a doubt (even though we may feel in our souls that he is 100% alive)...and all we really have is bit and pieces of a huge puzzle...we are left with having to 'fit' those pieces into the most plausible scenario...into what actually makes sense.
The problem I had with this angle, when I looked at it, were as follows:
1) How did they just 'add' 50 shows to a legal and binding contract without MJ knowing? Any changes in contracts that I have ever seen require, at the least, all parties initials next to the changes. In most cases, if it's a major change in contract, a whole new contract is drawn up and the old one is voided. If they tried to pull a fast one on MJ without his approval...wouldn't MJ's lawyers contest the contract? Something tells me that if there was to be 50 shows (or even 10...I'm not even sure about that)...then MJ fully knew about it.
2) We have proof that people were after MJ in the past based on the 333 FBI pages released. And aside from those reports, do we really believe that Tom Sneddon worked alone in trying to bring MJ down? A 10+ year personal vendetta against an entertainer by a D.A.? We also know there was a conserted effort by the media to destroy MJ...so, why would it be difficult to believe that there actually were people still after him, and that 'they' most likely upped the ante to killing him, since all previous attempts to bring him down had failed?
3) You say he left 'clues' that people were after him when they really weren't...but again, there is the FBI files proving there were people after him. More importantly, though, then he also left 'clues' (many of them) that he's actually alive. So why would he do both? If he really just wanted it to look like he was killed, then wouldn't it make more sense to not leave clues of him being alive? Believers have found a lot of clues supporting him being alive, not to mention coming back...wouldn't AEG, with much more resources than we have, be able to find those same clues and most likely more?
4) How does Murray fit into this angle? Do you believe that he's really being tried for manslaughter? Cause if he is, then MJ would be allowing an innocent man to potentially go to prison...something he was vehemently against when he was in that same position. Do you believe MJ is capable of that? And if the trial is all fake because Murray is 'in on it' and therefore won't go to jail...then many more people must know that MJ is alive and just wanted to get out of doing concerts cause Murray would NOT be able to pull that off on his own.
Again, please do not think I am bashing you or anyone who has thought of this scenario...I fully support looking at every possible angle in order to determine what seems more plausible...it's all we can do right now. Nor am I directing these questions to you...these were just some thoughts/questions that I, myself, had when I looked at the possibility that MJ could have faked his death specifically to get out of doing the concerts. Maybe there are logical answers to my questions, IDK...and if you or anyone else has some plausible answers, I am open to hearing them. But, out of all the scenario's that I've played and replayed in my mind, this one just isn't as plausible as some others.
With L.O.V.E. always.
-
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert.
The problem I had with this angle, when I looked at it, were as follows:
1) How did they just 'add' 50 shows to a legal and binding contract without MJ knowing? Any changes in contracts that I have ever seen require, at the least, all parties initials next to the changes. In most cases, if it's a major change in contract, a whole new contract is drawn up and the old one is voided. If they tried to pull a fast one on MJ without his approval...wouldn't MJ's lawyers contest the contract? Something tells me that if there was to be 50 shows (or even 10...I'm not even sure about that)...then MJ fully knew about it.
Yeah.
-
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
Well I hope this is really not the case, because if it is, that means that Michael will not return until late 2012, because the Statue of Limitations in California for filing a lawsuit for fraud is 3 years!!!
Bummer! <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: -->
-
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
These lyrics are very clear. I was thinking the same the last days. The song and the religion and TS - everything ties together through these lyrics. Of course I might be wrong.
IMO it doesn't matter who they say wrote the lyrics, but who's singing it. The immediate meaning is obvious. I do not see another interpretation. Except if the writer points to each one of us....but we can't all be "the chosen one".......only ONE can be the chosen one. And that's Michael himself.
-
Kristina for some reson I like your post very much.
You guys are amazing! So many great thoughts and theories, just brilliant! *clapping* :)
The main question (as many of your have mentioned) remains WHY IN THE WORLD "THEY" WOULD FOLLOW THE HOAX PLAN? What could be their motive to waist so much time on a very small group of people?
Money?! - What kind of profit "they" can get from us? All forums are free, with no advertisements on it. To make us buy CD's and DVD's? Well all non believers are buying it anyway. So that TMZ could profit from us? There are millions of people reading TMZ every single day and by far not all of them are MJ's fans, to go through all this trouble just to get a couple (a couple of thousands) more clicks on their page? Nope! To get us buy all the books people (family and friends) write? The stories in the books are actually more focused on non believers, because they are all about how Michael was "murdered" by "them", AEG, Sony, CM, Branca, FD etc. Of course believers would buy it too, but only out of curiosity to compare stories and find something fishy :lol:. But how much money can a book bring? it's not like they are selling Harry Potter or Twilight Saga. geek/
So here is my VERY crazy theory :mrgreen:
So "they" found out about Michael's plan to hoax his death, but they didn't steal his notes (assume for a minute that every little detail was written down) but simply copied them. That way Michael wouldn't know that "they" know about his hoax plan. They made sure somehow that everyone who is involved in hoax will be following hoax plan even if Michael really died.
Why would they want for Michael's fans to Believe that he is alive? I found a very sloppy answer (at least something geek/ ) to that question. I was watching David Icke's speech about "them" and one part really caught my attention. Start watching at 5:00 or watch a whole video if you wish. :) (I'm NOT saying that everything he says is true, but it's sure interesting)
[BBvideo 425,350:20b31onj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NArKdC4FoI[/BBvideo:20b31onj]
Maybe when they stole Michael's notes they wanted to create another so called "religion" for Michael's fans to believe in. So that millions of people would give their energy for "them" to feed on it. Sounds crazy but somehow possible. :lol:
Here is a debunk to my own theory:
1)The plan obviously didn't work! In the first year of hoax they had a great chance to make most of Michael's fans into believers. Because people were still very lost and confused, they couldn't let go of Michael and if "they" made some kind of strong clue. Something like force family (if they are under threat, because there is no other way they could trick family into hoax) talk about hoax even more. Fans could have fallen for it and Ta ta... here are your millions of believers, lot's of energy and an easy way to manipulate us. And "they" are happy, thinking how smart and smooth "they" are! rr/ But why bother so much with few thousands of people for 2 years?????!!!!!! Send TS to us, whom more than half of believers don't even like? I don't see any reason in it, if you do please let me know! :)
2) Why let us know about NWO and "them"? Why try to awake us? Why tell us that Media is lying to us? Why try to be so nice? Yes in the beginning it could have been as part of a new "religion", there always must be Good and Evil, so that we'll have more faith in Michael. But for 2 years????!!!! Without any profit from us??? Really????!!!! :roll:
L.O.V.E to all! :D
-
Fordtocarr
Well, I'm sorry to you too if I offended you. Geez, why is it alright for some to say things which have been stated, but not for me to disagree and state mine?
I know you believe what you say, as do I. I simply stated how I feel just as you and others do. I never tried to condemn or may anyone feel badly, it's just that "I" don't believe that Michael is the archangel and "I" don't believe Michael claimed to be either. Isn't it alright that I say that if you can say you think so?
I'm sorry you may be offended. Genuinely.
And I tried to make my comment tied to the things that were being discussed, but I see that it is getting off topic. That said..once again, I'm sorry I disagreed with you and perhaps offended anyone.
:) I’m not offended at all! I absolutely love open frank respectful discussion, but if I sense someone getting upset I back away and feel uncomfortable. So I hope everythings’s good here! beerchug
BeTheChange, good response!
I think that just like MJ through Dileo sent those lies to the media early in his career, about the hyperbaric chamber and the elephant man bones (the test), that he is also in this hoax setting the background for the hoax with possible exponentially more lies/half-truths for scenarios accompanied by proofs and verification by actual testimonies. Like in a labyrinth he has created dead-ends. The FBI's 333 files may prove MJ had enemies, but he also had many many friends in very high places to arrange for the various scenarios/dead-ends.
So then I agree with all4loveandbelieve's post about MJ conspiring everything, except for the not wanting to do 50 shows part (another fabricated story).
Kristina4LOVE, your theory has definately played in the back of my mind. It is similar to EarthEnigma's theory that the Illuminati are going to use Michael to produce an extravanganza end-time show of Christ returning to earth with technology, and all the while they usher in their evil agenda. Then someone talked of how you keep your friends close but your enemies closer, and that all his life MJ has lived in the enemy camp and got to know them from the inside. My theory I wrote a while back was basically that the Illuminati were the ones with the grand hoax plan (Coca Cola and more) and MJ was meekly going along with it, but that at some point he was from within going to surprise them and be victorious over them, almost like a sting over the whole of the Illuminati/PTB. "There was war in heaven--Michael fighting with the dragon, and won." This is all outragiously layered and complicated. fresse/ :? :mrgreen:
-
Gema you are right, it's the gut feeling that brought us here in the first place. It all started with the O2 for me, with the dilema was it MJ or not, and with this fist to some unknown enemy:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/michael-jackson-560562007.jpg)
You are a phychologist, what's your take about that fist? It bothered me for a very long time. Michael looks angry for a second, realy angry.
it is true that we humans gather most of our true feeling in our facial expressions. Michael is wearing shades, so I can´t tell if he is angry or not. Also, we don´t know if he used his fist as one if his steps, if it was a pose or if in fact was a sign of power.
(http://t2.gstatic.com[thumbnail]/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0nHw27RsQ5AiV2nrlnh5CHPrjfi4I7ZQqaa3TYhraTnJLgT40)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcqnk5REaitnCR6_vs-DYVYpsGYgMDQxRi_cQL3NXeUZB5_mQB)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWFfWTO_x8v_rHbr4Re-dTKO3HsYxM11bIPeFBa5iWA8vq-nUgtg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Oo14H0vP1Dw/SlNuhNBJYnI/AAAAAAAABZA/sDja3KxUTLc/s400/michael_jackson_red_jacket_concert_fist_in_air_1990_342x456_wenn2046940.jpg)
In the New Testament book of Revelations, it says:
“They continued to ‘raise their fists at God, refuse to repent and sores were all over their bodies’ ”
Revelations. Chapter 16: vs. 11
However, the fist up is historic gesture. The truth is that it is a gesture used throughout history by socialists, communists and even anarchists. The Socialists have always raised his left fist, and regardless of their origin, what is clear is the symbolism of the gesture contains: explicit the need for unity of the working class. It is not an aggressive gesture, but a defender of the unity of all workers. In short, is the practical expression of one of the fundamental principles of the labor movement in general and socialism in particular. I refer to internationalism, the idea is very clearly present before the formation of the First International (1864), especially in a basic text as the Communist Manifesto of Marx and Engels, which defends the idea of equality .
-
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/michael-jackson-560562007.jpg)
This pic looks shopped to me anyway. His shoulder has a red shadow. Like if the courtain has been blended in his clothes. And yes, I have considered the light, may be is red, but still...the pic looks shopped to me.
-
I see the differences too. The only one that is the real deal IMHO is the one Top-Left. Both on the right look like E'cas and I have no clue who that one Bottom-Right is but his features seem way too sharp. Another thing that makes me sure he out-smarted them: he could be at two places at the same time with all those Spartacus-MJ's and because his ever-lasting 'change of appearance', no one knew in the end how he really looked like. I think he REALLY didn't change that much since the late 80's, apart from the inevitable age changes we all face in life. Loose the make-up and the long hair and you have regular joe that can walk the streets without being noticed. People might think he looks familiar, but who the hell expects MJ is doing his own shopping? He couldn't, he said so himself, right? Although it might seem off-topic,[highlight=#bf8080:1bi8svi9]I think his appearance has been a huge part of the hoax for all those years, for distraction and security purposes[/highlight:1bi8svi9]. And if he can fool his own fans, he can fool the world.
;) yep yep yep
I also think so.
-
Im_convincedmjalive wrote
I am now going to talk about the threats and what has been said the reason for them are. Most people think it is because of his catalog. Some have even said it is because he is worth more dead than alive. In a carnal/fleshly world that is a good simple explanation for the threats. That is what Michael has said over and over because IMO the real reason will be harder for most people to accept. I say this because I have watched the reactions of people regarding the NWO and alot of people still refuse to see what is right in front of their face.
I am going to tell my story of the thought/vision that came to me yesterday while I was awake regarding the real reason MJ was/is such a threat to the NWO and he had/has to be taken out by any means necessary. Example the accusations of child molestation.
The NWO was hoping to destroy his reputation so that the public would no longer want to listen to MJ and his messages of awareness, awakening and hope. I hadn’t gave much thought to this subject other than I felt there was a bigger reason than his catalog why he was being threatened. I have always believed he was in danger.
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se) ... ersion=NIV
____________________________________
I'd like to add a question about your thoughts ....
Daniel chapter 7 describes how the horn of the last beast (the Antichrist, the king of the last great empire) will be destroyed before setting up the messianic kingdom.
Does not it seem that he refers to it as a trial, with a judge, jury and millions of people who are watching?
Daniel 7
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court[a] was seated,
And the books were opened.
13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
Hey- thanks for the question. mj_dance/
I need to explain something before I continue. First I am not learned well enough in bible studies to know every scripture. I do understand scripture as I read it when it is brought up. I do know some things from my past being reborn in Christ in 94 but I had backslided and ignored the word for a long time. I only started to dig into the word of God again because of Michael. When I get a vision/thought it is usually a jolt in my head while I am awake, meaning it comes quickly and it is very limited in details. I have to then interpret it fully from the idea planted. The words I wrote were my interpretation of the idea of NWO-threat-Michael. I do not get this often and when I do it is very right on. It has happened outside of this hoax in my personal life in 2003. I also get more detailed ones when I am asleep.
So in saying all that I understand the vision Daniel had from reading it to be that the NWO (anti-christ, satan, NWO kingdom) is now in power and the saints are being bothered by this for now. We are at war with those who want to control us (NWO). (It appears they are winning for now because so many people are in a state of fear). Then we get favor from the most high-God. He is the one being described sitting in Judgement on the throne. The book is opened and we are going to be judged by God. The one like the son of man comes. This is Jesus. He destroys the NWO (satan) and begins his reign and those who made it through will be there in his kingdom.
This is how I can explain it in my words. But after you asked this question I was curious to see someone elses view point so I found a link and IMO because of what I have read; this link to the site will be helpful. I am picky when it comes to others view point of the word of God but I think this is right on target or as close as it gets. http://danielbibleprophecy.org/daniel7.html (http://danielbibleprophecy.org/daniel7.html)
Peace beerchug
thank you very much bearhug
-
Im_convincedmjalive wrote
I am now going to talk about the threats and what has been said the reason for them are. Most people think it is because of his catalog. Some have even said it is because he is worth more dead than alive. In a carnal/fleshly world that is a good simple explanation for the threats. That is what Michael has said over and over because IMO the real reason will be harder for most people to accept. I say this because I have watched the reactions of people regarding the NWO and alot of people still refuse to see what is right in front of their face.
I am going to tell my story of the thought/vision that came to me yesterday while I was awake regarding the real reason MJ was/is such a threat to the NWO and he had/has to be taken out by any means necessary. Example the accusations of child molestation.
The NWO was hoping to destroy his reputation(witness) so that the public would no longer want to listen to MJ and his messages of awareness, awakening and hope. I hadn’t gave much thought to this subject other than I felt there was a bigger reason than his catalog why he was being threatened. I have always believed he was in danger.
Michael is a figure that is prophesied in the bible through Daniel to be the one who stands up for the people at such a time as this, end times. The NWO in my opinion does read the bible and they know of the prophesy, they fulfill prophesy all the time according to their evil ways. Many disasters have been orchestrated by the NWO and so have sacrifices on specific dates for spiritual power/demons. The thing is they are so delusional they think they are going to win so they ignore the fact that in the end the lamb overcomes them and wins. They know that Michael is a threat to them based on what is prophesied and they also know that he has a powerful influence over people. He can lead us in a war and we will win. This is why they had/have to eliminate him.
<!-- m -->http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se)<!-- m --> ... ersion=NIV
____________________________________
I'd like to add a question about your thoughts ....
Daniel chapter 7 describes how the horn of the last beast (the Antichrist, the king of the last great empire) will be destroyed before setting up the messianic kingdom.
Does not it seem that he refers to it as a trial, with a judge, jury and millions of people who are watching?
Daniel 7
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court[a] was seated,
And the books were opened.
13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
think about what that was . he was simply trying to be like Jesus.
-
With no real proof one can see or touch, this is how I feel:
More people in the Big Industry (music, movies, hollywood etc) know about this Hoax than we think IMHO. The 'Industry' is its own community, a sort of secret society with its own language and laws. If someone wants to go somewhere and not be found, there are deals that can be made to ensure this. If someone wants to fake their own death, it can be done. The press/paparazzi/media doesn't have a job without celebrities, celebrities don't have publicity without press/paps/media. Hollywood has created its own world and we are the outsiders. This hoax is not as spectacular as we make it out to be though. Michael's life is not in any danger, it never has been. Why would they want to silence his message? He has been saying "Make that Change' since the 1980's and just now it bothers them enough to kill him? They have done a great job at damaging his reputation and his following isn't as big as it has been before allegations. I know it cannot be ingored that they had tried twice to put him in jail for 20 years minimum and perhaps they would have thought to just assassinate him after he was found Not Guilty. Tom Sneddon is a crook who saw an oppurtunity to gain fame and fortune from this case, but he is a little bug compared to the true source of MJ's troubles in 1993-2005. And why include Numerology and perfect timing to kill someone? Why didn't they murder MJ in '05 as he was walking out of the courtroom? Why not '06, '07, '08? Why murder in the first place?! Why does it have to be so extreme? Why can't it be as simple as this; Michael Jackson wanted to take a break and not be followed. He wanted to feel for awhile like an everyday, normal human being. No one in the tight knit celebrity circle is going to say anything because it isn't their place to say anything. His close friends and family will help him out with the hoax because they are true friends and family. Paris never said 'daddy is dead' she said 'Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much." The children are very careful in what they say, they never acknowledge their father being dead. They only say things like 'i miss him" "i love him". Well, they miss him because he isn't always with them. And this hoax is not to eliminate world problems because we are the only ones responsible for that. Our own personal actions have led to world pollution, holes in the ozone, chemicals in our food, crooked politicians, corrupt churches and religions and so on. We are the ones responsible. Michael says it in TII "They who? Its us!" We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
-
With no real proof one can see or touch, this is how I feel:
More people in the Big Industry (music, movies, hollywood etc) know about this Hoax than we think IMHO. The 'Industry' is its own community, a sort of secret society with its own language and laws. If someone wants to go somewhere and not be found, there are deals that can be made to ensure this. If someone wants to fake their own death, it can be done. The press/paparazzi/media doesn't have a job without celebrities, celebrities don't have publicity without press/paps/media. Hollywood has created its own world and we are the outsiders. This hoax is not as spectacular as we make it out to be though. Michael's life is not in any danger, it never has been. Why would they want to silence his message? He has been saying "Make that Change' since the 1980's and just now it bothers them enough to kill him? They have done a great job at damaging his reputation and his following isn't as big as it has been before allegations. I know it cannot be ingored that they had tried twice to put him in jail for 20 years minimum and perhaps they would have thought to just assassinate him after he was found Not Guilty. Tom Sneddon is a crook who saw an oppurtunity to gain fame and fortune from this case, but he is a little bug compared to the true source of MJ's troubles in 1993-2005. And why include Numerology and perfect timing to kill someone? Why didn't they murder MJ in '05 as he was walking out of the courtroom? Why not '06, '07, '08? Why murder in the first place?! Why does it have to be so extreme? Why can't it be as simple as this; Michael Jackson wanted to take a break and not be followed. He wanted to feel for awhile like an everyday, normal human being. No one in the tight knit celebrity circle is going to say anything because it isn't their place to say anything. His close friends and family will help him out with the hoax because they are true friends and family. Paris never said 'daddy is dead' she said 'Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much." The children are very careful in what they say, they never acknowledge their father being dead. They only say things like 'i miss him" "i love him". Well, they miss him because he isn't always with them. And this hoax is not to eliminate world problems because we are the only ones responsible for that. Our own personal actions have led to world pollution, holes in the ozone, chemicals in our food, crooked politicians, corrupt churches and religions and so on. We are the ones responsible. Michael says it in TII "They who? Its us!" We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
Wow! thank you for explaining your point of view on the hoax. I really think this makes a lot of sense.
I love you :) michael-jackson/
-
With no real proof one can see or touch, this is how I feel:
More people in the Big Industry (music, movies, hollywood etc) know about this Hoax than we think IMHO. The 'Industry' is its own community, a sort of secret society with its own language and laws. If someone wants to go somewhere and not be found, there are deals that can be made to ensure this. If someone wants to fake their own death, it can be done. The press/paparazzi/media doesn't have a job without celebrities, celebrities don't have publicity without press/paps/media. Hollywood has created its own world and we are the outsiders. This hoax is not as spectacular as we make it out to be though. Michael's life is not in any danger, it never has been. Why would they want to silence his message? He has been saying "Make that Change' since the 1980's and just now it bothers them enough to kill him? They have done a great job at damaging his reputation and his following isn't as big as it has been before allegations. I know it cannot be ingored that they had tried twice to put him in jail for 20 years minimum and perhaps they would have thought to just assassinate him after he was found Not Guilty. Tom Sneddon is a crook who saw an oppurtunity to gain fame and fortune from this case, but he is a little bug compared to the true source of MJ's troubles in 1993-2005. And why include Numerology and perfect timing to kill someone? Why didn't they murder MJ in '05 as he was walking out of the courtroom? Why not '06, '07, '08? Why murder in the first place?! Why does it have to be so extreme? Why can't it be as simple as this; Michael Jackson wanted to take a break and not be followed. He wanted to feel for awhile like an everyday, normal human being. No one in the tight knit celebrity circle is going to say anything because it isn't their place to say anything. His close friends and family will help him out with the hoax because they are true friends and family. Paris never said 'daddy is dead' she said 'Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much." The children are very careful in what they say, they never acknowledge their father being dead. They only say things like 'i miss him" "i love him". Well, they miss him because he isn't always with them. And this hoax is not to eliminate world problems because we are the only ones responsible for that. Our own personal actions have led to world pollution, holes in the ozone, chemicals in our food, crooked politicians, corrupt churches and religions and so on. We are the ones responsible. Michael says it in TII "They who? Its us!" We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
I agree with you a great deal.
Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.
-
With no real proof one can see or touch, this is how I feel:
More people in the Big Industry (music, movies, hollywood etc) know about this Hoax than we think IMHO. The 'Industry' is its own community, a sort of secret society with its own language and laws. If someone wants to go somewhere and not be found, there are deals that can be made to ensure this. If someone wants to fake their own death, it can be done. The press/paparazzi/media doesn't have a job without celebrities, celebrities don't have publicity without press/paps/media. Hollywood has created its own world and we are the outsiders. This hoax is not as spectacular as we make it out to be though. Michael's life is not in any danger, it never has been. Why would they want to silence his message? He has been saying "Make that Change' since the 1980's and just now it bothers them enough to kill him? They have done a great job at damaging his reputation and his following isn't as big as it has been before allegations. I know it cannot be ingored that they had tried twice to put him in jail for 20 years minimum and perhaps they would have thought to just assassinate him after he was found Not Guilty. Tom Sneddon is a crook who saw an oppurtunity to gain fame and fortune from this case, but he is a little bug compared to the true source of MJ's troubles in 1993-2005. And why include Numerology and perfect timing to kill someone? Why didn't they murder MJ in '05 as he was walking out of the courtroom? Why not '06, '07, '08? Why murder in the first place?! Why does it have to be so extreme? Why can't it be as simple as this; Michael Jackson wanted to take a break and not be followed. He wanted to feel for awhile like an everyday, normal human being. No one in the tight knit celebrity circle is going to say anything because it isn't their place to say anything. His close friends and family will help him out with the hoax because they are true friends and family. Paris never said 'daddy is dead' she said 'Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much." The children are very careful in what they say, they never acknowledge their father being dead. They only say things like 'i miss him" "i love him". Well, they miss him because he isn't always with them. And this hoax is not to eliminate world problems because we are the only ones responsible for that. Our own personal actions have led to world pollution, holes in the ozone, chemicals in our food, crooked politicians, corrupt churches and religions and so on. We are the ones responsible. Michael says it in TII "They who? Its us!" We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
[font=cursive:3pxaujqd]Girl!! This is what I've been saying for a couple of years. I'm glad others feel the same. Only time will tell that's one thing we all agree on anyhow. Great post <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->[/font:3pxaujqd]
-
With no real proof one can see or touch, this is how I feel:
More people in the Big Industry (music, movies, hollywood etc) know about this Hoax than we think IMHO. The 'Industry' is its own community, a sort of secret society with its own language and laws. If someone wants to go somewhere and not be found, there are deals that can be made to ensure this. If someone wants to fake their own death, it can be done. The press/paparazzi/media doesn't have a job without celebrities, celebrities don't have publicity without press/paps/media. Hollywood has created its own world and we are the outsiders. This hoax is not as spectacular as we make it out to be though. Michael's life is not in any danger, it never has been. Why would they want to silence his message? He has been saying "Make that Change' since the 1980's and just now it bothers them enough to kill him? They have done a great job at damaging his reputation and his following isn't as big as it has been before allegations. I know it cannot be ingored that they had tried twice to put him in jail for 20 years minimum and perhaps they would have thought to just assassinate him after he was found Not Guilty. Tom Sneddon is a crook who saw an oppurtunity to gain fame and fortune from this case, but he is a little bug compared to the true source of MJ's troubles in 1993-2005. And why include Numerology and perfect timing to kill someone? Why didn't they murder MJ in '05 as he was walking out of the courtroom? Why not '06, '07, '08? Why murder in the first place?! Why does it have to be so extreme? Why can't it be as simple as this; Michael Jackson wanted to take a break and not be followed. He wanted to feel for awhile like an everyday, normal human being. No one in the tight knit celebrity circle is going to say anything because it isn't their place to say anything. His close friends and family will help him out with the hoax because they are true friends and family. Paris never said 'daddy is dead' she said 'Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much." The children are very careful in what they say, they never acknowledge their father being dead. They only say things like 'i miss him" "i love him". Well, they miss him because he isn't always with them. And this hoax is not to eliminate world problems because we are the only ones responsible for that. Our own personal actions have led to world pollution, holes in the ozone, chemicals in our food, crooked politicians, corrupt churches and religions and so on. We are the ones responsible. Michael says it in TII "They who? Its us!" We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
[font=cursive:33fsph69]Girl!! This is what I've been saying for a couple of years. I'm glad others feel the same. Only time will tell that's one thing we all agree on anyhow. Great post <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->[/font:33fsph69]
I also feel the same way and in several post have tried to convey this say message. You said it better then I ever could. This alone makes me feel that the murder theory isn't plausible!
-
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
Well I hope this is really not the case, because if it is, that means that Michael will not return until late 2012, because the Statue of Limitations in California for filing a lawsuit for fraud is 3 years!!!
Bummer! <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: -->
exactly I have been saying this from the start that Michael will be back in 2012, I am an intuitive person, I feel things it is unexplainable, when I read in the internet that Michael passed away, the first thing that I did was laughed.. I felt it in my soul that he faked his death, and the first thing that came into my head is he did not want to do the concerts, and to get out without being sewed was to fake his death. When in TII movie he said we have 4 yrs to make it right it is 2012.
-
crash/ crash/
no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him
and convinced the FBI guys that he was threatened, so they would help him with the hoax in good faith..... crash/ crash/
-
I think there could have been an attempted murder and hopefully they foiled the plan.
The more I think of that and what Jermaine has said so far, the more I think the Sheikhs etc were behind it.
[highlight=#ff4080:1k9fm52k]Brother Jermaine says that “if Michael would have embraced Islam he would still be here today,”[/highlight:1k9fm52k]
That to me is a big clue. For me it is a very veiled indirect statement of who could be involved. Maybe there was a real terrorist threat, and yes the bigger Michael got, the bigger target he would become. We all know how he narrowly missed it in 2001, could he have narrowly missed it in 2009 too?
When and where is this quoted from?? Thanks!!
-
I think there could have been an attempted murder and hopefully they foiled the plan.
The more I think of that and what Jermaine has said so far, the more I think the Sheikhs etc were behind it.
[highlight=#ff4080:2i3pmcbh]Brother Jermaine says that “if Michael would have embraced Islam he would still be here today,”[/highlight:2i3pmcbh]
That to me is a big clue. For me it is a very veiled indirect statement of who could be involved. Maybe there was a real terrorist threat, and yes the bigger Michael got, the bigger target he would become. We all know how he narrowly missed it in 2001, could he have narrowly missed it in 2009 too?
When and where is this quoted from?? Thanks!!
i think maybe it was that he would have been protected. there were videos here early of jermaine giving an interview somewhere . maybe on a muslim related radio or tv station (?). thing is didn't jermaine also say on larry kind something about God / Alluh(sp) being the same? ( i could be wrong about that , but if he did then what is he really saying?)
-
Gema
In the New Testament book of Revelations, it says:
“They continued to ‘raise their fists at God, refuse to repent and sores were all over their bodies’ ”
Revelations. Chapter 16: vs. 11
What translation is that from? In 10 or so different main translations there is no reference to raising fists at God in that verse. Scroll down. http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#vrsn/11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=16&v=11&t=KJV#vrsn/11)
-
We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
I agree with you a great deal.
Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.
On the other hand, what is the point to stage believable death including all normative steps: 911, investigation, hospital, autopsy,memorial, burial, will, DC, etc. if MJ had planned to come back? Just to shock with come back? If there was a life threat, come back does not fit here because illuminati nor Sony cannot be convicted or destroyed in their etirety anyway. So danger will remain forever. Also do not include fakes because those are real or conincidences for non-believers who I think still is majority. Finally the big deal with lawsuits is also make me think about NO come back.
I hope you all understand that I want him back very much. I just want sound analysis that would make sense to believe that Michael will be back considering all present circumstances.
This being said, I think:
hoax= dead for the world except for children and family.
How possible to live "dead" forever? Hard for me to imagine, but perhaps Michael enjoys it after hurricaine type of life. I anticipate this depressing theory be debunked since I think we have already debunked murder theory.
-
I think there could have been an attempted murder and hopefully they foiled the plan.
The more I think of that and what Jermaine has said so far, the more I think the Sheikhs etc were behind it.
[highlight=#ff4080:27b8l9eu]Brother Jermaine says that “if Michael would have embraced Islam he would still be here today,”[/highlight:27b8l9eu]
That to me is a big clue. For me it is a very veiled indirect statement of who could be involved. Maybe there was a real terrorist threat, and yes the bigger Michael got, the bigger target he would become. We all know how he narrowly missed it in 2001, could he have narrowly missed it in 2009 too?
When and where is this quoted from?? Thanks!!
i think maybe it was that he would have been protected. there were videos here early of jermaine giving an interview somewhere . maybe on a muslim related radio or tv station (?). thing is didn't jermaine also say on larry kind something about God / Alluh(sp) being the same? ( i could be wrong about that , but if he did then what is he really saying?)
In this interview Jermaine is saying that he wished Michael would have embraced Islam, because that would have been his protection (at 1:30). It's a very interesting interview, Jermaine seems really sincere, even emotional, it scared me actually. He is talking about a conspiracy, about the FBI, doing an investigation on Michael for SEVENTEEN YEARS but they found nothing (NO, ofcourse not). He also attacks the American system, they wanted Michael out of the way, and when Michael was in the courtroom on verdict day, there weren't enough seats for the family because they wouldn't want the media show that the whole family was there to support Michael. It's a really disturbing interview, one that makes my stomach turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGHWLI0491Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGHWLI0491Y)
[BBvideo 425,350:27b8l9eu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGHWLI0491Y[/BBvideo:27b8l9eu]
-
any idea how long jermaine has been muslim. he mentioned something about all the way back in 84 ( if i heard correctly) that is a while now .and did i hear him mention 89? just curious.
-
With no real proof one can see or touch, this is how I feel:
More people in the Big Industry (music, movies, hollywood etc) know about this Hoax than we think IMHO. The 'Industry' is its own community, a sort of secret society with its own language and laws. If someone wants to go somewhere and not be found, there are deals that can be made to ensure this. If someone wants to fake their own death, it can be done. The press/paparazzi/media doesn't have a job without celebrities, celebrities don't have publicity without press/paps/media. Hollywood has created its own world and we are the outsiders. This hoax is not as spectacular as we make it out to be though. Michael's life is not in any danger, it never has been. Why would they want to silence his message? He has been saying "Make that Change' since the 1980's and just now it bothers them enough to kill him? They have done a great job at damaging his reputation and his following isn't as big as it has been before allegations. I know it cannot be ingored that they had tried twice to put him in jail for 20 years minimum and perhaps they would have thought to just assassinate him after he was found Not Guilty. Tom Sneddon is a crook who saw an oppurtunity to gain fame and fortune from this case, but he is a little bug compared to the true source of MJ's troubles in 1993-2005. And why include Numerology and perfect timing to kill someone? Why didn't they murder MJ in '05 as he was walking out of the courtroom? Why not '06, '07, '08? Why murder in the first place?! Why does it have to be so extreme? Why can't it be as simple as this; Michael Jackson wanted to take a break and not be followed. He wanted to feel for awhile like an everyday, normal human being. No one in the tight knit celebrity circle is going to say anything because it isn't their place to say anything. His close friends and family will help him out with the hoax because they are true friends and family. Paris never said 'daddy is dead' she said 'Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much." The children are very careful in what they say, they never acknowledge their father being dead. They only say things like 'i miss him" "i love him". Well, they miss him because he isn't always with them. And this hoax is not to eliminate world problems because we are the only ones responsible for that. Our own personal actions have led to world pollution, holes in the ozone, chemicals in our food, crooked politicians, corrupt churches and religions and so on. We are the ones responsible. Michael says it in TII "They who? Its us!" We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
Your point is very clear..actually 100% clear....and i'm with you on this.....BUT about the comeback thing....i disagree bearhug
-
What I am 100% sure about this hoax is, it is a very long time plan. This was planned perfectly by a genius. Noone else but Michael could arrange all these details and I'm sure that it took long for him to decide about everything. Michael is not gulliable to sign a contract that he couldn't deal with and he is not coward to run away from AEG. TII was never meant to be concerts from the beginning. And to me there are several reasons of the hoax. And it is not only for fun purposes or to live without paparazzi for a while. He was in Ireland for a while and no paparazzi could find him there. He could go and live there with his kids and there would be no paps after him there. He wasn't in the spotlight for a long time. But he preferred to come back, showed kids' faces to the media, announced that he is ending and beginning something new with This Is It. Every end has a new beginning. I'm sure that there's a threat in his life. Maybe it wasn't the illuminati but he wanted to rise the awareness about what's really going on in the world, the truth about NWO and illuminati. He couldn't fight with them all alone. But raising awareness of millions of fans would definitely help him. The only way to take them down is to spread the truth about them and Michael did it. I do not know who the threat in his life was but we even read in the 333 pages of the FBI files that there was a guy who was threatening Michael. Being big and famous is not that easy and there're terrible sides of it too and getting threats is just one of them. So, I definitely believe that he was threatened by various people or groups.
This is definitely a long term plan created by Michael himself but will he come back? After 2 long years and probably the trial is going to take another year and then Katherine's trial will begin, so probably after 4 or 5 years is he going to BAM? If he doesn't, everything he has done, all of this amazing plan would be incomplete if he doesn't come back. It would be a Thriller without the resurrection, it would be meaningless. So to me he has to come back. But when I think about the family, I get confused. What will they say and how will they explain it, especially to the fans? 'We had to lie to protect Michael' can be a good excuse. But writing books and telling that he was murdered, what about that? They can not take the books back. They will be earning money from a lie. What will the fans think about them? They all will be pissed. So, from one point of view, the return seems impossible to me but from one point of view the return looks like a must. Time will show it for sure. I just hope this long journey ends with a spectacular BAM.
-
We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
I agree with you a great deal.
Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.
On the other hand, what is the point to stage believable death including all normative steps: 911, investigation, hospital, autopsy,memorial, burial, will, DC, etc. if MJ had planned to come back? Just to shock with come back? If there was a life threat, come back does not fit here because illuminati nor Sony cannot be convicted or destroyed in their etirety anyway. So danger will remain forever. Also do not include fakes because those are real or conincidences for non-believers who I think still is majority. Finally the big deal with lawsuits is also make me think about NO come back.
I hope you all understand that I want him back very much. I just want sound analysis that would make sense to believe that Michael will be back considering all present circumstances.
This being said, I think:
hoax= dead for the world except for children and family.
How possible to live "dead" forever? Hard for me to imagine, but perhaps Michael enjoys it after hurricaine type of life. I anticipate this depressing theory be debunked since I think we have already debunked murder theory.
While what you say makes sense, I want to throw a couple of things out. Regarding the 911 call, investigation, hospital scene, autopsy, memorial, will, and dc. I try at times to put myself in MJ's shoes, that if I were in danger or wanted people to think I was in danger and I had to exit stage left in a manner of speaking, what would I do. I would do exactly what has been done. There had to be a scene, hence why TMZ were there that day (and the other day), the tour bus was there (I think it was planned around that time so there were more witnesses, which would explain why the ambulance was there that long), getting photos of him alive or not entering the hospital: it makes it more believable that he actually went there. There have been stories before that he sent dummies in etc. If he were dead there would have been an autopsy report: if there wasn't one wouldn't that raise more flags? Memorial: there was bound to be one whether the family was involved in it or not because of how HUGE MJ is to so many people. People would question if there wasn't a will (people arguing over things regarding the will has gone on for generations and that will never change unfortunately). The DC: again there had to be one because it would raise flags if there wasn't one. So all of the steps were taken and to great lengths.
With all of that being said; If I wanted to get away from it all and fake my death to live an ordinary every day life (like we all know MJ craved), I would like to think since he has been known to be a perfectionist, he would make sure that all the T's were crossed and the I's were dotted! There wouldn't be an error in anything! BUT since there are errors in almost all documents that have been released (and you don't have to be a fan to know what's what), those should be red flags that something isn't right. All of the errors, interviews, what's being said against what's not being said, people's actions etc are evidence that something isn't right. Not that interviews, actions and spoken words can be filed under evidence but it's surely noted! If MJ wanted to disappear he has the capabilities to do it and not have to worry about ever being caught. With everything being played out that it has and I'm sure will continue to be played out the only plausible answer is that there is going to be a comeback. The when, where and how are still undetermined as I am sure MJ is the only one who knows. The exact why of the entire hoax we may not find out until he comes back.
As always these are just my thoughts.
-
We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
I agree with you a great deal.
Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.
On the other hand, what is the point to stage believable death including all normative steps: 911, investigation, hospital, autopsy,memorial, burial, will, DC, etc. if MJ had planned to come back? Just to shock with come back? If there was a life threat, come back does not fit here because illuminati nor Sony cannot be convicted or destroyed in their etirety anyway. So danger will remain forever. Also do not include fakes because those are real or conincidences for non-believers who I think still is majority. Finally the big deal with lawsuits is also make me think about NO come back.
I hope you all understand that I want him back very much. I just want sound analysis that would make sense to believe that Michael will be back considering all present circumstances.
This being said, I think:
hoax= dead for the world except for children and family.
How possible to live "dead" forever? Hard for me to imagine, but perhaps Michael enjoys it after hurricaine type of life. I anticipate this depressing theory be debunked since I think we have already debunked murder theory.
While what you say makes sense, I want to throw a couple of things out. Regarding the 911 call, investigation, hospital scene, autopsy, memorial, will, and dc. I try at times to put myself in MJ's shoes, that if I were in danger or wanted people to think I was in danger and I had to exit stage left in a manner of speaking, what would I do. I would do exactly what has been done.
With all of that being said; If I wanted to get away from it all and fake my death to live an ordinary every day life (like we all know MJ craved), I would like to think since he has been known to be a perfectionist, he would make sure that all the T's were crossed and the I's were dotted! There wouldn't be an error in anything! BUT since there are errors in almost all documents that have been released, those should be red flags that something isn't right. All of the errors, interviews, what's being said against what's not being said, people's actions etc are evidence that something isn't right. Not that interviews, actions and spoken words can be filed under evidence but it's surely noted!
As always these are just my thoughts.
Fine Mish. What if those errors come from not hoax but murder.........or, since we debunked murder theory I suppose pretty good, errors come from accidental death that is so stupid that makes hard to believe. Conrad happened to be careless big time incompetent son of bitch who did not perform his duties and Michael died. How believable and valid is that?
For example, so far we don't have clear explanation how come there is the autopsy (with errors in it), I mean the way it got out there and used as a basis of investigation (incomplete and suspicious) and manslaughter lawsuit (with real judge, jury, lawyers, and prosecutor).Was coroner bribed or he loves Michael so much that wanted to help him, or there was another's dead body opened up? We did not clear this question up, did we? All we keep saying is "the autopsy is wrong". Well maybe it was not done properly following all rules and procedures, but it does not mean it is not Michael's.....
The fact is that no matter how confidently and successfully we think we debunked murder or accidental death theory, there is no 100% proof that Michael is alive unless he is back and vice versa. What if he does not come back? Would you think that he is dead?
-
What if he does not come back? Would you think that he is dead? [/color]
Nope <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> !!!!!!
-
What if he does not come back? Would you think that he is dead? [/color]
Nope <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> !!!!!!
yes <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
-
What if he does not come back? Would you think that he is dead? [/color]
Nope <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> !!!!!!
yes <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
[font=cursive:265u4bm0]NO** Just that my guess for the hoax was wrong and I'll go back to my original guess.[/font:265u4bm0]
-
since we debunked murder theory
when was that?
if we skip that we will not know the truth.
everybody trying to indoctrinate that "no murder" - I heard that "no troll" also too often.
not debunked yet. nope.
-
We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
I agree with you a great deal.
Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.
On the other hand, what is the point to stage believable death including all normative steps: 911, investigation, hospital, autopsy,memorial, burial, will, DC, etc. if MJ had planned to come back? Just to shock with come back? If there was a life threat, come back does not fit here because illuminati nor Sony cannot be convicted or destroyed in their etirety anyway. So danger will remain forever. Also do not include fakes because those are real or conincidences for non-believers who I think still is majority. Finally the big deal with lawsuits is also make me think about NO come back.
I hope you all understand that I want him back very much. I just want sound analysis that would make sense to believe that Michael will be back considering all present circumstances.
This being said, I think:
hoax= dead for the world except for children and family.
How possible to live "dead" forever? Hard for me to imagine, but perhaps Michael enjoys it after hurricaine type of life. I anticipate this depressing theory be debunked since I think we have already debunked murder theory.
While what you say makes sense, I want to throw a couple of things out. Regarding the 911 call, investigation, hospital scene, autopsy, memorial, will, and dc. I try at times to put myself in MJ's shoes, that if I were in danger or wanted people to think I was in danger and I had to exit stage left in a manner of speaking, what would I do. I would do exactly what has been done.
With all of that being said; If I wanted to get away from it all and fake my death to live an ordinary every day life (like we all know MJ craved), I would like to think since he has been known to be a perfectionist, he would make sure that all the T's were crossed and the I's were dotted! There wouldn't be an error in anything! BUT since there are errors in almost all documents that have been released, those should be red flags that something isn't right. All of the errors, interviews, what's being said against what's not being said, people's actions etc are evidence that something isn't right. Not that interviews, actions and spoken words can be filed under evidence but it's surely noted!
As always these are just my thoughts.
Fine Mish. What if those errors come from not hoax but murder.........or, since we debunked murder theory I suppose pretty good, errors come from accidental death that is so stupid that makes hard to believe. Conrad happened to be careless big time incompetent son of bitch who did not perform his duties and Michael died. How believable and valid is that?
For example, so far we don't have clear explanation how come there is the autopsy (with errors in it), I mean the way it got out there and used as a basis of investigation (incomplete and suspicious) and manslaughter lawsuit (with real judge, jury, lawyers, and prosecutor).Was coroner bribed or he loves Michael so much that wanted to help him, or there was another's dead body opened up? We did not clear this question up, did we? All we keep saying is "the autopsy is wrong". Well maybe it was not done properly following all rules and procedures, but it does not mean it is not Michael's.....
The fact is that no matter how confidently and successfully we think we debunked murder or accidental death theory, there is no 100% proof that Michael is alive unless he is back and vice versa. What if he does not come back? Would you think that he is dead?
I do think that can be errors on autopsy reports (http://m.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/aug/ ... tificates/ (http://m.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/aug/08/experts-one-third-of-death-certificates/)). It is possible that it could simply be that the autopsy report has a few errors. That's one incident. That doesn't explain everything else though. My thought:A few people can say hmmm something doesn't sit right so it can't be. We in the hoax community consist of thousands, I could definitely be wrong but I think that there isn't a way for thousands to be wrong or all have the feeling that something isn't right. I can't explain fully what I'm trying to say. Do I think that if he doesn't come back that he's still alive? Yes. I am not in denial that it could be a possibility that he is dead. I can't explain why I believe that he is a live nor do I think that I should have to explain it. We all have our own opinions and I wasn't trying to debunk what you had said, I was simply throwing out my opinion and going through the eliminating process. We don't have 100% proof that he is alive nor do we 100% proof that he is dead.
Much respect :)
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
I totally agree with you.
-
Ok... i will engage.
Often one of my stumbling blocks to the hoax is Karen Faye and Michael Bush. They both say they dressed Michael for his coffin and Karen states she put make up and wig on him.
To this day, Karen has never deviated from this and insists he is dead and she prepared the body.
I know there have been arguments over whether she is qualified to do this (but to me, that is a side issue. She is a make up artist and its plausable she could do this).
I still havent heard any valid arguments to debunk Karen and her claims.
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with Michael's giant reality movie?
That planted a seed for me.
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
Hello people and hello TS!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much Ts,for this redirect.Finally something I like to discuss <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .Your post about about milion dollar bill reminded me about the MILLION DOLLAR BABY movie, lol. The KING OF POP is indeed a BILLION DOLLAR BABY <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .
Michael is like a glue for us,we stay on this forum,day and night to found out what really happened to him,but are we looking in the right direction??????
There is always 2 sides of the story,like is always 2 sides the same bill or coin.Which one is it:was he killed or is he alive? Which one is the real one? What if is just a illusion?????
You know I remember when I was a little girl,that I always asked myself why everytime I read something about Michael's life,his birthdate was not the same.It was not clear for me,if he was born in 1958 or 1959.But finllly I said that maybe it was just a mistake and the correct year is 1958.Now I'm not so sure anymore.It was a long time ago ,but now we have INTERNET and we can find out many things.We can search ourselves and find once and for all who is who in this story.Who is the man we never knew and saw before.Like MIchael use to say at Grammys in 1993:"In the past few months(I would say years) I have gone from 'where is he?' to 'oh, here he is again'..."
I have to confess now that if the trial from 2005 hadn't occure ,I would never found out the TRUTH.
But if you look closer,or you try harder you will see the big difference,lol,like in TMZ POST: What's The Big Frigin' Difference?
I know that now people will call me crazy,that will say what is this gril talking about? It's ok because even I think I'm crazy,lol,imagine spending two f... years of your life, investigate about someone who you never meet before.
Here is not about Illuminati ,or some kind a evil plan to murder The King of Pop.Is about two brothers who had to share the same dreams and the same PAINS,every day of their life <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> .This is what I call courage and dedication to be the best,to help and try to make a change in this miserable world.None of them are some kind of saint,they are flesh and blood just like you and me.
I'm sorry if I offended someone here but Ts said "there is no limit on any particular category of discussion".
After spending many nights without any sleep I finally found ONE SOLID(from many ofcourse) PROOF about MY THEORY <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .But first just read this poem from DANCING THE DREAM and then enough with mistery,lol.
I, You, We
I said you had to do it. You said you didn't want to. We talked
about it, and we agreed that maybe I could help.
I said you were wrong. You insisted you were right. We held each
other's hand, and right and wrong disappeared.
I began crying. You began crying, too. We embraced, and between us
grew a flower of peace.
How I love this mystery called We! Where does it come from, out of
thin air? I thought about this mystery, and I realized something :
We must be love's favorite child, because until I reach out for you,
We is not even there. It arrives on the wings of tenderness : it
speaks through our silent understanding. When I laugh at myself, it
smiles. When I forgive you, it dances in jubilation.
So We is not a choice anymore, not if you and I want to grow with
one another. We unites us, increases our strength; it picks up our
burden when you and I are ready to let it fall. The truth is that
you and I would have given up long ago, but We won't let us. It is
too wise. "Look into your hearts," it says. "What do you see? Not
you and I, but only We."
My proof is the History tour,Munich 1997.I have to say that "Michael" performed in Munich twice in that tour,once in 4 july and the second in 6 july.So is just 2 day apart if someone wants to come and say he just lost weight and some height also,lol.After watching this performance many,many times(because I like very much the part about THE BUG from History tour),something hit me in the head.Let's just say that you,as a person or a fan you don't know what I just told you about two concerts in Munich.You go on youtube and write for example :history tour munich jackson 5 medley and you get a mixture of both of 4 and 6 july.As I told you before,you will not even noticed there are 2 days mixed up!!!!!!!!!!!!! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> .Now TS pay attention and please if you can,explain this to me how it's possible
to have 2 different Michael's on 2 days apart???????????????????????????????????
Michael Jackson - Medley "Jackson 5" - Live in Munich - HIStory Germany Tour (1997) - HQ
[BBvideo 425,350:16sbtu35]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7IMSFBONg[/BBvideo:16sbtu35]
Ofcourse this is just one example ,from many others I found out.There are many even in Bad and Dangerous tour also.It's up to you to put or no the Hoax glasses and work hard.
So Ts ,finally there is a HOAX ,but it's no about some murder.Family is in the hoax for sure,they are supporting all this from the begining.What I'm curious to found out is when and how this big adventure it' s gonna end <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> ????????? Will people ever found out about the other brother or no? Ts please tell me what do you think ,and if you don't agree with what I just wrote,give me some arguments.
P.S. Michael J.Jackson thank you from the bottom of my heart for this BIG ADVENTURE that CHANGED MY LIFE
I LOVE YOU MOST!!!!!!!!!
-
What I have trouble getting my head around is that if this is all very serious, involving death threats, FBI, danger etc etc, why did MJ have to 'die' in order to expose it? Crimes are exposed everyday without those being threatened having to fake their deaths, and if they do, as in a witness protection programme, then they don't leave trails of clues to them still being alive. How was he able to take possibly decades to meticulously plan and execute his faked death and turn it into what promises to be the most epic of MJ's masterpieces to date? If the danger was imminent then he surely wouldn't have had the time, or presumably the inclination to make a huge production out of it. And if it was a more ongoing, longer term threatening situation (which I personally am more inclined to go along with), why did he have to 'die'? Was it that he saw it as an opportunity too good to miss to 'kill two birds with one stone', i.e. bring down those against him and, at the same time, create a work of art the like of which has never been seen before.
-
Applehead - Can you tell us which date that clip is from, and show an example of the other date please?
Love the bug clip lolol/
-
What I have trouble getting my head around is that if this is all very serious, involving death threats, FBI, danger etc etc, why did MJ have to 'die' in order to expose it? Crimes are exposed everyday without those being threatened having to fake their deaths, and if they do, as in a witness protection programme, then they don't leave trails of clues to them still being alive. How was he able to take possibly decades to meticulously plan and execute his faked death and turn it into what promises to be the most epic of MJ's masterpieces to date? If the danger was imminent then he surely wouldn't have had the time, or presumably the inclination to make a huge production out of it. And if it was a more ongoing, longer term threatening situation (which I personally am more inclined to go along with), why did he have to 'die'? Was it that he saw it as an opportunity too good to miss to 'kill two birds with one stone', i.e. bring down those against him and, at the same time, create a work of art the like of which has never been seen before.
That's how I think.
TS brought up entrapment, but I have been thinking less along the lines of preventing entrapment for a sting and more along the lines of preventing entrapment for a fraud accusation once this giant media hoax is exposed.
I'm thinking along the lines of a reality production, movie, documentary, performance art kind of thing... preventing entrapment by saying from the beginning, the truth is out there... yes he fooled some, but not all, so therefore it's not a lie... it's art, a movie, entertainment... can't you see? It's all for love aka fun aka entertainment.
And at the same time expose some evil doers who have been out to destroy him for a long time.
I'm thinking the FBI is involved simply to prevent any legitimate inquiry based on the script... so they aren't fooled and thus decide to look into Murray and the other shady doctors themselves...
...because that would sincerely not be good. Say MJ does this elaborate hoax and fools everyone... including the authorities... fools them so well that they open an investigation into the MJ death (hoax) and discover the hoax before MJ has a chance to BAM=giant hoax fail...
... so involving the FBI from the beginning... as well as LAPd and LAFd... is necessary, just to keep up the illusion for everyone else aka the rest of the world.
-
Applehead - Can you tell us which date that clip is from, and show an example of the other date please?
Love the bug clip lolol/
Hello reveron1958 and welcome in our house!!!!!
I have to applogise because I have to cook for my family now,you know family is first!!!!
Like I told you the clip I posted is from Munich and it's a mixture betewn 4 and 6 july.I had some difficulties finding out both of them separate because Sony bloked all that parts from Munich,lol.
But after a night without sleep I foud what I was searching, 8-) .
I promise you I will be back later with proofs,Excuse me now.LOVE YOU
-
Guys, I got very curious and decided to look up Sexual Abuse in the Catholic Churches. And you will not believe what I found. I did some digging and it was stated that a number of the priests use alcohol and sometime drugs on their victim to make them comfortable before abusing them. If you look up incidents in NH you will find all this information. And you would not believe what year one of the articles stated(1992).
This is something to look into.
-
TS explained the use of the number/alphabet code in THIS IS IT. The I's represent 999.
If F=6, B=2, I=9 then FBI is 6-2-9
This is the 'death' date - except that the 50 is missing.
06-25-09
F B I
6 2 9
yes, with out the 50...50 years old
also adds to 17....the tour bus
what is is about the number 17...it pops up a lot.....what is on the 17th page of the FBI report?
62+9= 71
71 was the ambulance
6+29= 35 any thoughts about 35?
Just thinking out loud here.......
Blessings!
Hi wishingstar, thanks for helping to look at the FBI numbers. I didn't think to add them! FBI=17 and the investigation by the FBI covered 17 years. The 333 pages they released are in seven files. The interesting thing about the 62+9 is that these numbers occur in some of the file names. In fact the seven files use the numbers from 06-25-2009 in various combinations. The only exception is one with 305 (35!) These numbers can't be a random coincidence.
http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson (http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson) I haven't paid much attention to the files themselves. I think it's the timing and the numbers that show the FBI are involved in the hoax.
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with Michael's giant reality movie?
That planted a seed for me.
Thank you bec for a reminder!
I think it was me who posted it, if i remember correctly. Anyway here it is again http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/oc ... -producers (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/october/a-guide-for-writers-authors-and-producers)
Working with the FBI:
A Guide for Writers, Authors, and Producers
We can help: if you are a writer, author, or producer who wants to feature the FBI, we may be able to work with you to create an accurate portrayal of the Bureau.
We’ve been doing it since the 1930s. Most recently, we have assisted the motion pictures “The Kingdom,” “Shooter,” and “Breach”; television programs like “Without A Trace,” “CSI,” “Numb3rs,” “Criminal Minds,” and “The Closer”; and books like Big City, Bad Blood; Lone Wolf-Eric Rudolph: Murder, Myth and the Pursuit of an American Outlaw; and Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists on American Soil.
Specifically, the Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit (IPPAU) in our Office of Public Affairs is a small staff that spends a portion of its time working with domestic and international screenwriters, producers, authors, and other industry personnel associated with TV programs, documentaries, made-for-TV movies, books, and motion pictures. In addition, the unit is the same one that manages national and international publicity for wanted fugitives (including the “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives”), Most Wanted Terrorists, and missing children, and it also coordinates other proactive initiatives.
There are much more details in the link...
-
@applehead so you believe the twin theory?
I watched the clip and thrie to not get distracted of the gp and I tried to see the second MJ but really I don't know what you see and when you see the second MJ....maybe from 4:30?
At the beginning there is a smiling MIchael, with the face of an angel, at the end he is a little different, in fact only the expression on his face is a little different so finally I don't know - do you see 2 Michaels?
Please point the moments where you think there is the second Michael.
-
Kristina4LOVE wrote:
bec wrote:
paula-c wrote:
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with Michael's giant reality movie?
That planted a seed for me.
Thank you bec for a reminder!
I think it was me who posted it, if i remember correctly. Anyway here it is again http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/oc (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/oc) ... -producers
Working with the FBI:
A Guide for Writers, Authors, and Producers
We can help: if you are a writer, author, or producer who wants to feature the FBI, we may be able to work with you to create an accurate portrayal of the Bureau.
We’ve been doing it since the 1930s. Most recently, we have assisted the motion pictures “The Kingdom,” “Shooter,” and “Breach”; television programs like “Without A Trace,” “CSI,” “Numb3rs,” “Criminal Minds,” and “The Closer”; and books like Big City, Bad Blood; Lone Wolf-Eric Rudolph: Murder, Myth and the Pursuit of an American Outlaw; and Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists on American Soil.
Specifically, the Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit (IPPAU) in our Office of Public Affairs is a small staff that spends a portion of its time working with domestic and international screenwriters, producers, authors, and other industry personnel associated with TV programs, documentaries, made-for-TV movies, books, and motion pictures. In addition, the unit is the same one that manages national and international publicity for wanted fugitives (including the “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives”), Most Wanted Terrorists, and missing children, and it also coordinates other proactive initiatives.
There are much more details in the link...
I read the link later, the headache is coming back
-
Ok... i will engage.
Often one of my stumbling blocks to the hoax is Karen Faye and Michael Bush. They both say they dressed Michael for his coffin and Karen states she put make up and wig on him.
To this day, Karen has never deviated from this and insists he is dead and she prepared the body.
I know there have been arguments over whether she is qualified to do this (but to me, that is a side issue. She is a make up artist and its plausable she could do this).
I still havent heard any valid arguments to debunk Karen and her claims.
[font=cursive:25emot18]SURE....something about Karen's story ISN"T right...that being....
LaToya also said she dressed Michael.....so who do you believe???
Neither. It's a show.[/font:25emot18]
-
Applehead - Can you tell us which date that clip is from, and show an example of the other date please?
Love the bug clip lolol/
Hello reveron1958 and welcome in our house!!!!!
I have to applogise because I have to cook for my family now,you know family is first!!!!
Like I told you the clip I posted is from Munich and it's a mixture betewn 4 and 6 july.I had some difficulties finding out both of them separate because Sony bloked all that parts from Munich,lol.
But after a night without sleep I foud what I was searching, 8-) .
I promise you I will be back later with proofs,Excuse me now.LOVE YOU
applehead250609, you're brave! I agree - there's more than one. I also wonder how it's all going to end.
-
Good evening,I'm back!!!!
First of all IT'S CHURCH time.Now after 2 years of investigation ,I try to be honest with everyone here.Please believe me when I say that this is hard for me to open my soul,but since we are a family here we go.I never tought ,not in a milion year that I will be here ,on a hoax forum to investigate Michael Jackson's suppose death.It's been 2 years now but this feeling is still strong.I don't know what it is ,but I can't let go.Sometime I feel like crying,when I think at Michael,I don't know why but I feel pain inside me.So I'm here to found out the truth just like you,nothing more.I don't want to fight to anyone and I don't like to argue.
My believe is still strong and I want to go on to find out why is this hoax happening.What I said before is still valid and I want to be clear that I 'm not here to try to convince anybody of my belief.It's my belief and that's it.
Two weeks before when I heard Latoya speaking to Pierce Morgan it was enough for me.How can Janet call Joseph,Joe and Latoya call him Joseph when we all know his name is Walter JOSEPH Jackson? How come Michael was in two places in 2002 ,when the will was signed? How is possible for us all to not know about Michael Joe Jackson until 2009 when we started to look back ,because of this Hoax.Believe me is possible ,because we all been busy with "something" else.
Now I have to respond to Gina and reverond.
First of all in the video I posted the first seconds till 1:02 is 4 july,then from 1:03 till 3:36 is 6 july ,and then from3:37 till the end is 4 july.
Now the second and third are to separate the 4 july from 6 july:
This video is FULL from 6 july,remember the bug thing,then this is all him,from the bigining till the end:
Michael J. Jackson HiStory Tour Munich Amateur - Jackson 5 Medley
[BBvideo 425,350:2vgr778a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItpnBqnpUw&nofeather=True[/BBvideo:2vgr778a]
This video is from 4 july ,pay attention to the voice,the body size (I believe this is the one with Brett Ratner video) :
Michael Jackson - Jackson 5 Medley Interlude Live In Munich [Alternative Rare Version]
[BBvideo 425,350:2vgr778a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u87DtkKEajk&nofeather=True[/BBvideo:2vgr778a]
Elsa thank you very much ,Gos bless you <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> !!!
Now I have to go to sleep,but tomorrow I will be back with more.
LOVE[/size]
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
I totally agree with you.
Ok guys. If you now say FBI is not engaged, then automatically "sting operation" and thereby "sting/hoax court" theory blown away. Is that right? Then the murder also not an option, although Grace disagree that it has not been debunked yet.
But Bec disagree with Curl that there was no need for Michael be "dead" for FBI to sting an operation because their website has article about entertainment. But I agree with Curl and have said many times that "sting operation" does NOT fit death theory since to realize sting operation Michael really does not have to be dead.
For murder theory we do not have a proof beyond reasonable acceptance that there is a valid motive or circumstances, details, facts that Michael was killed. Or if there is one, please respond with solid proof. Instead we see facts that make us think Michael should be alive. However, we also have uncleared questions I wrote above, but no one tries to reasonably explain how we got autopsy that led Conrad to manslaughter trial. It is NOT enough to say it is fake. It is there, how it got there? Maybe there is an accidental death but we don't want to face?
But we also have no clear explanation to what happened to camera tapes? Maybe there is nothing special or killer destroyed it, or there was none, or Michael managed to take it with him, or...?
As for fake ambulance photo, I can interpret this way, opposing hoax: Ben was told there is an ambulance in MJ house & drove right away to Carolwood because "there is always money in relation to Michael" as he said. He was not successful to take a photo, but he did want to make money for wasted time and therefore came up with the idea himself to photoshop picture using Michael's previous photo and SOLD it out. That's all he was interested in. How does this sound?
As for Karen and Michael Bush story,@ Ms.Pepper and Ford, that they dressed and put make up on Michael, that IS fishy because it does not add up with La Toya's description of what MJ was wearing in the coffin. I sent a msg. to Karen myself on tweeter why their stories do not match, she replied that I have to ask her (LaToya) about that. Finally during the recent "fight" on tweeter Karen vs Pearl Jr. vs. believers-fans vs. Jermain over hoax vs. death subject, Karen never mentioned again as a reminder that MJ is dead because she put make up on him herself. But the final bomb was her tweet that "If there were a hoax, you would know shit". You need to review Karen's tweet thread.
-
What I have trouble getting my head around is that if this is all very serious, involving death threats, FBI, danger etc etc, why did MJ have to 'die' in order to expose it? Crimes are exposed everyday without those being threatened having to fake their deaths, and if they do, as in a witness protection programme, then they don't leave trails of clues to them still being alive. How was he able to take possibly decades to meticulously plan and execute his faked death and turn it into what promises to be the most epic of MJ's masterpieces to date? If the danger was imminent then he surely wouldn't have had the time, or presumably the inclination to make a huge production out of it. And if it was a more ongoing, longer term threatening situation (which I personally am more inclined to go along with), why did he have to 'die'? Was it that he saw it as an opportunity too good to miss to 'kill two birds with one stone', i.e. bring down those against him and, at the same time, create a work of art the like of which has never been seen before.
Exactly curls. It is because the only purpose of this hoax is NOT to save his life. Michael is killing lots of birds with one stone. I'm sure that he wanted to do a REAL LIFE THRILLER. We all know how Michael loves scary Ghost stories. We know how he loves to invent new things. He is the first one who made a film like video to his song. He is the first in many fields. And with the real life Thriller, he is going to be the FIRST once again. The KING who comes BACK from DEATH!
There is definitely a show part of this hoax too which we call the Greatest Show on Earth. There's an ARG part of the hoax, illusion, magic parts of the hoax. That's the reason why nothing can be too obvious. He's giving out clues but except a thousand of fans, who believes that he is alive? Probably the ones who threatened him suspected if he is still alive or not and that's where the family comes in. They are screaming out that he is dead and finally Jermaine told that there's no hoax. Even us tought if what he said could be true, I'm sure that the bad people after him became more sure that he is dead. He is such a genius that he is leaving clues but not everyone can understand that they are clues. He doesn't make anything too obvious. That is the reason why only a bunch of us found out about the hoax but the rest millions of fans still think that he is dead. We are so lucky to witness his fantastic show which is The Greatest Show On Earth. Let's keep on enjoying it. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
-
We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all :D
I agree with you a great deal.
Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.
[glow=red:1hog985e]On the other hand, what is the point to stage believable death including all normative steps: 911, investigation, hospital, autopsy,memorial, burial, will, DC, etc. if MJ had planned to come back? Just to shock with come back?[/glow:1hog985e]If there was a life threat, come back does not fit here because illuminati nor Sony cannot be convicted or destroyed in their etirety anyway. So danger will remain forever. Also do not include fakes because those are real or conincidences for non-believers who I think still is majority. Finally the big deal with lawsuits is also make me think about NO come back..
Yes and all these things, I believe, are to convince the public. I mean this 'investigation' hasn't really been taken too seriously. The most well known human being in the world is possibly murdered and Murray is still a free man. They postpone the trial for pointless reasons, and I think its all to stall for Michael's return. Do we even know if this court case is real? Can't anything look legitimate and be the complete opposite? I mean, look at how the autopsies and death certificate are never questioned as fakes. Only we do! When they speak of MJ in the news, they never talk about justice for him. They talk about how his Legacy will live on forever. Alright, we know, he's the greatest to ever do it BUT if this is a homicide case that is a bit more important than anything he has accomplished. Thriller will have to take a back burner for a minute while we figure what the hell happened to MJ. Isn't it weird how people talk about his death as though he were 100 years old and died peacefully in his sleep. He was 50 years old when he disappeared, with no fatal diseases or injuries prior to 6/25/09 so what's up?! No one has come forth with any helpful information. I mean, its said you can't keep a secret in Hollywood. If MJ had enough problems for someone to murder him, someone knows something and they are not talking. And the family creeps me out with "Oh i know who did it. I'm not at authority to say." This would not be your reaction if it were your brother or sister, would it? And the siblings smile and laugh, ecspecially Jermaine. Everyone seems to think that Michael's murder is a great reason to write a book. Even the 'Killer'!! The reason for all of the specifics is that Michael is 'directing' ;) get it? This is a movie, a very tragic one with a happy ending, hopefully. Yet there is no fast forward through the slow parts, only time will tell who is wrong and who is right. If I'm right, I will climb up a building like King Kong and yell 'The King is back!' and if I'm wrong, well I don't want to think about it right now. But I don't feel like he's gone. Its more than just a desire for him to still be alive. I just don't feel like he has left, he is still with us: Mind, Body and Soul.
As for Michael not coming back if still alive, I can't believe that. I don't think that is what's in his heart to shut the world out for good. He loves people too much and he knows not all of us are bad. But if he doesn't ever come back, I know he will still be giving his all to creating a better place for our children and our children's children ;).
-
What is the matter with you believers? Here is what I read: IT IS A LIFE THRILLER, GREAT SHOW ON THE EARTH, ILLUSION, MAGIC, then it follows with different version: HIS LIFE WAS IN DANGER, HA HAD TO HOAX, HE HAD NO CHOICE.
So what is the hoax purpose for real: great show or life danger? I see totally different and opposit causes.
-
What is the matter with you believers? Here is what I read: IT IS A LIFE THRILLER, GREAT SHOW ON THE EARTH, ILLUSION, MAGIC, then it follows with different version: HIS LIFE WAS IN DANGER, HA HAD TO HOAX, HE HAD NO CHOICE.
So what is the hoax purpose for real: great show or life danger? I see totally different and opposit causes.
Did you read my last post? IT IS ALL. ;)
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
I totally agree with you.
Ok guys. If you now say FBI is not engaged, then automatically "sting operation" and thereby "sting/hoax court" theory blown away. Is that right? Then the murder also not an option, although Grace disagree that it has not been debunked yet.
Where do we say the FBI is NOT involved?? :?
-
What is the matter with you believers? Here is what I read: IT IS A LIFE THRILLER, GREAT SHOW ON THE EARTH, ILLUSION, MAGIC, then it follows with different version: HIS LIFE WAS IN DANGER, HA HAD TO HOAX, HE HAD NO CHOICE.
So what is the hoax purpose for real: great show or life danger? I see totally different and opposit causes.
As PURELOVE said, why can't it be for both reasons? I don't know exactly what reason I truly and fully believe in but that doesn't matter. We all have our own beliefs on why he did this and I honestly don't think we will get the irrefutable truth until MJ returns and tells us himself. Until then we can only speculate, look at each option carefully and then and only then can they be discredited so we can move on. I could be wrong but I also think that we aren't going to agree (there are bound to be ones who disagree) whether it was murder, or an escape plan for normal life. Again, we can't prove it. None of the evidence can stand alone to be solid proof. Any and everything we have can be looked at on both sides of the coin. I've tried explaining this earlier so I won't go too far into it again.
-
Working with the FBI:
A Guide for Writers, Authors, and Producers
and where they fit in the death hoax :?:
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
I totally agree with you.
Ok guys. If you now say FBI is not engaged, then automatically "sting operation" and thereby "sting/hoax court" theory blown away. Is that right? Then the murder also not an option, although Grace disagree that it has not been debunked yet.
Where do we say the FBI is NOT involved?? :?
Perhaps I misunderstood Paula?
-
seems like there was a statement from someone around the trial time that the trial actually showed that it was michael himself that was the actual victim in alot of this . if the fbi has been looking at him they have been looking at the people around him. i don't know about all of the number stuff (except to say : the lord moves in mysterious ways), but it seems to me there would be plenty of reason since the beginning of all these woes for them to have some ideas of who was causing this and being able to be involved somehow. whether it is all a planned thing or simply divine intervetion , something just doesn't add up in all of this.
-
I was thinking about the birth and death dates on the money. I thought I might find the difference between them – because they are represented as numbers.
08291958–06252009=2039949
2039949 divided by 9 is 226661-the first three numbers are in the time of death 2.26.
2039949 divided by 2040 is 999.975
2040 divided by 9 is 226.666666 - so there’s the time of death again.
999.975 divided by 9 = 111.10833333333etc.
Is it just a freaky numerical coincidence?
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
I totally agree with you.
I agree as well. The molestation accusations prove to me that someone(s) was out to destroy Michael. Nobody would ever accuse an innocent person of such vile things if not to utterly ruin that person. But when Michael didn't give up and people around the world continued to love him, "they" decided killing Michael's reputation wasn't enough. I do believe that when the FBI were looking into the accusations they uncovered the plot against Michael and that is why they are working with him for the hoax. But I also think the FBI's involvement is only a small(ish) part of the hoax and Michael's plans for when he returns. I seem to notice Michael in almost every aspect of entertainment/media/products/culture/etc and people all over the world are heavily influenced by Michael right now even though they don't realize it. But I think it will all "Come Together" once he returns.
-
@applehead so you believe the twin theory?
I watched the clip and thrie to not get distracted of the gp and I tried to see the second MJ but really I don't know what you see and when you see the second MJ....maybe from 4:30?
At the beginning there is a smiling MIchael, with the face of an angel, at the end he is a little different, in fact only the expression on his face is a little different so finally I don't know - do you see 2 Michaels?
Please point the moments where you think there is the second Michael.
There is not twin, if that person who sang was not MJ it was an impersonator not a twin brother. Mj has no twin brother. blessings.
-
I have a feeling the FBI are only involved to give clearance. To me, none of the signs pointed towards a necessity or death threats or feeling his life in danger, I just don't see anything that suggests that. The vast majority of the clues are entertainment style, circus elephants before the memorial and such.
I also fail to rationalize why if Michael felt threatened and was in fear, that he would drop multiple repetitive hints that he is alive. A sting operation would only be concerned with preventing it's target from entrapment, not the whole world...
So let's say it were argued this was a sting operation to catch shady doctors. Something in the process of setting up these doctors would need to be a subtle clue for THEM... not the body moving in the helicopter and emerging as a surfboard and displayed on live TV for all to see... seems overly elaborate just to prevent entrapment of a few bad doc's.
I DO however, in no small way, also think that this hoax is to clear Michael's name from these sick allegations that seemed to destroy him despite prevailing in 2005. How he will do that we remain to see but I have good faith. I do not know if the FBI would be willing to assist him, I do not understand why they would care.
Besides that crucial event, from day one this has felt like a giant entertainment production. As solid proof eludes us, I fall back more and more on my gut instincts, which have largely held up in these 2 years. I say the whole thing is a movie. Souza was right that day when she posted the movie theory. I think so strongly.
But in entertainment, it need not be a frivolous pursuit. Michael gives a famous interview where he says that to entertain people is very powerful; to provide a diversion from daily life, to tell a story, to inspire emotion and feeling. It's not JUST entertainment. Entertainment provides a platform to spread a message and to be heard on grand scale. Entertainers are in a very powerful position with their fame and popularity that should not be overlooked. Entertainers can inspire and bring about real change, whether its to start a fashion trend or usher in an entirely new sociological age of enlightenment... I suppose when you think about it, the possibilities are endless.
-
After several days of composing myself and re-researching two years of info, I am back. I also re-read TS's post. For those who follows his/her every word I must say I'm surprised no one (that I've seen) have noticed what was REALLY said. (My perception)
TS said:
"Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it.
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!!"
If we are to believe what this person says, (or in some peoples cases, EVERYTHING this person says) then the multi-million dollar answer is HOAX. The Illuminati didn't get him. He/she said it him/herself. He/she refuted the murder theory him/herself just by posting this. I don't know the how's and why's yet but all will be explained. Come on everybody....Michael's alive!!! <!-- sparty/ -->party/<!-- sparty/ --> Uggg. I wish I knew if TS was male or female. It sucks typing he/she <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
-
Glad you're back alsmom.
You can type s/he, that works.
-
Damn, the large fonts are really large. Sorry!
-
But Bec what about the tapes where Michael himself says he fears for his life? Do you think he is only acting?
-
@Gina, yes I think so. I think it's a murder mystery style plot. The family is perpetuating it, saying Michael told them he was afraid for his life. The obvious question they haven't answered about that is: if Michael said he was afraid he was going to be murdered, why didn't you DO anything?
Also, if Michael is in fear for his life, why would he not call the FBI? Or one of his siblings have called? Also, would the FBI not already have knowledge of a plot to kill MJ considering they followed him and eavesdropped on him for 11 years up until 2005?
-
alsmom380
Yes, I was just going to post the same thing! His 2 choices tell us exactly!
Bec
But in entertainment, it need not be a frivolous pursuit. Michael gives a famous interview where he says that to entertain people is very powerful; to provide a diversion from daily life, to tell a story, to inspire emotion and feeling. It's not JUST entertainment. Entertainment provides a platform to spread a message and to be heard on grand scale. Entertainers are in a very powerful position with their fame and popularity that should not be overlooked. Entertainers can inspire and bring about real change, whether its to start a fashion trend or usher in an entirely new sociological age of enlightenment... I suppose when you think about it, the possibilities are endless.
And every good movie needs a protagonist. From a young age MJ has intuitively deciphered/observed the good guys from the bad guys first in the entertainment business and then in the larger world. Yet he has woven an electrifying thriller story that includes real enemy/bad guys, the ultimate reality show. He has felt this calling to create this, and is fearless because he feels God's protection. A previous poster said one of the reasons for showing the money on both sides, is that this hoax is full of paradoxes, opposites/2 sides that are true at the same time. I agree with the seeming opposites that the hoax is a movie and also there was some real danger in his life. At the same time for almost all these 2 years I cannot shake the feeling that some or all of the enemy/public hatred of MJ has been set up and fueled by the man himself, starting with leaking the fabricated h chamber and e bones stories to the press, giving all his staff copies of P.T. Barnum's book and saying he wanted his life to be the Greatest show on earth, and almost immediately this was followed by the the pepsi fire (there's been discussion of it being possibly a hoax). The first allegation in 1993 could have been the true enemy, but perhaps the second one, starting with the Bashir interviews (clues that MJ was fully in control of them), and all the way through the 2005 trials which the FBI were somewhat involved, had that show element to them (he was fully aware of the show trial of O.J. Simpson). I simply can't shake that feeling in my gut. So if MJ truly has enemies that hate him enough to destroy his public image and physically kill him, then they are the same ones from the fire, 1993, 2005 up to present, and therefore his life would be in enough danger that his children would not be out and about openly, and he wouldn't want to do open concerts, not even 10. If he has no real dangers and it is all fake phone calls afraid for his life, and no fears of the Illuminati (TS has clearly said they didn't get him), then I take this same situation back 21+ years to the first planning of this grand HIStory/hoax/ARG/Greatest Show On Earth. My gut feeling tells me it has been a show for a very long time, but many "actors" in it may not have been aware it was a show, like Tom Sneddon. Michael said he was psychic, and also said that his lyrics came from God, so why not the whole 21+ year story/hoax, etc. Sometimes I think this, and sometimes I think only some parts were planned by him. I'm torn. suspicious// mj_dance/
-
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.
On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with Michael's giant reality movie?
Here, here!!! Well said!
-
The vast majority of the clues are entertainment style, circus elephants before the memorial and such.
[...]
Entertainment provides a platform to spread a message and to be heard on grand scale. Entertainers are in a very powerful position with their fame and popularity that should not be overlooked. Entertainers can inspire and bring about real change, whether its to start a fashion trend or usher in an entirely new sociological age of enlightenment... I suppose when you think about it, the possibilities are endless.
I am with you. There are several very strong entertaining aspects in this - more entertaining aspects than criminal aspects.
Maybe we receive more entertaining momenti for some reasons or we are no good criminal investigators - well, we did not get an apprenticeship in criminal investigation before and we don't have the means at hand to investigate in detail.
So forgiving ourselves as to this criminal investigator imperfectness, we can work on what may be closer to us: entertainment.
I said in one of my last posts:
We have several layers in this journey, several repetitive themes.
- family (holistic doctor, child support etc.)
- professional ethics (medical, pharmacy, hospital, lawyers, court, police, etc.)
- weapons, war and all related (stun gun, Lopez, army etc.)
- fire (burning, Pepsi, Arnie, jacket, money, etc.)
- cardiac (heart, blood, love, emotions, etc.)
- time (delays, numbers, etc.)
- illusion (reality vs. perception etc., open eyes, show = make see, autopsy = see for yourself, etc.)
- belief (persuadation, religion, God, judgements, etc.)
- change (individual, regional, global etc.)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727)
Adding: cleaning the house / name.
Plus enjoying life.
What kind of criminal evidence did we understand from what media told us?
The police not sealing the location, Murray's car being towed, Murray being searched and found, Murray being a witness not a suspect, Murray being left alone again for quite some time, walking freely, continuing "practicing", being interviewed, photographed, mainly by NPG and TMZ, Murray in court with toys, "I don't want you sedating people", interview with Mr. Chernoff "everything's slow in California", continued delays, the AR publication, the coroner's statements, etc. Everything that was missing compared to "real" cases and everything that was too much to make it a "real" case (like a "make-up" on a clown will only dramatize what needs to be shown and hide what needs to be hidden - for the performance).
TMZ's continued manipulation "giving direction, "hints" and opinions" as the center of information distribution doesn't help any further in getting an answer on any criminal investigation - except: it's all about entertainment.
TMZ are not FBI's PR center (at least not to my knowledge, but yes, maybe Harvey is an undercover agent too?).
What we know is they are doing entertainment business and making their money from and within this entertainment industry. So TMZ is about entertainment first.
When I did say: "don't kick murder out of your mind" I meant this to keep the balance in this dance and to keep eyes open. We have these alternatives:
- nobody died (variants: get away from lawsuits, get away from concerts, get away from paparazzi, get away from fans, get away from publicity, take a sabbatical for the kids, take a sabbatical for a lady, take a sabbatical for himself, etc)
- somebody died (variants: gardener, housekeeper, impersonator, deadly ill person willing to take "Michael's place" to set him free, the romanian guy, etc)
- somebody important (to Michael) died (variants: friend, colleague etc)
- somebody important (to the family) died (variants: brother, twin, cousin, impersonating family member etc.)
- somebody important (to the industry) died (variants: the brand as such was switched to a milk cow without too much investment, M Joseph J the singer & dancer brand part died, M Joe J the entertainer brand part stayed behind the curtains etc)
- somebody important (to the industry) HAD to "die" on intention (variants: M Joseph J the singer & dancer brand part ("I LOVE to tour", on Michael's intention, on the industry's intention, etc)
In the last case, we again have a murder case, but it is the murder of a brand leitmotif not of a human being.
Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being with "malice aforethought", and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). As the loss of a human being inflicts enormous grief upon the individuals close to the victim, as well as the fact that the commission of a murder is highly detrimental to the good order within society, most societies both present and in antiquity have considered it a most serious crime worthy of the harshest of punishment. In most countries, a person convicted of murder is typically given a long prison sentence, possibly a life sentence where permitted, and in some countries, the death penalty may be imposed for such an act — though this practice is becoming less common.[1] In most countries, there is no statute of limitations for murder (no time limit for prosecuting someone for murder). A person who commits murder is called a murderer .[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)
The question remaining in this murder case is: who's intention was it, who did it and what will be the punishment - if any - for that act.
If we do not have a physical human being's life that ended but an artificial stage life set to stop on purpose (with a cardiac arrest meaning a stop of love and life) - who was harmed if not the fans and many leaches - and who did profit if not sales results, the clearing of Michael's name, the cleaning from false friends, from unpleasant lawsuits, having contracts running out, getting a mega deal contract fixed with Sony, renovating Havenhurst, getting the family and the kids tighter and safe as to financial support. Following the money trail we have the industry AND the family profiting which is a standard business win-win-situation.
Coming back to the initially mentioned themes during these two years:
they are not linked to any criminal activity, they are not linked to entertainment (except illusion).
However, they have a strong educational foundation.
With this we are back in 2009 when I wondered about the new edutainment stream in media.
This is what Dave Dave said on LKL:
"To liberate myself from the confines of my father's criminality."
"He caused all this."
"To free myself of his name and his legacy, I decided to become my own person with changing my name."
I think that says it all.
[BBvideo 425,350:2fmpkdm1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw[/BBvideo:2fmpkdm1]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw)
The hoax is not a hoax since 2009. This is all about the time before June 25.
This disappearance is encouraging us to look into what happened before to see and understand truth.
This is an invitation into Michael's life as much as he invited us into the various "makings of" songs and videos after June 25. This is actually letting us come close.
It was a very brave decision to put a final fullstop to many things that had made Michael's life unbearable.
June 25, 2009 put an end to the hoax that had started in the 80s if not earlier.
That's why the ambulance picture, the memorial and the funeral set was all pointing to Michael from that era because that Michael (marketed brand image) was "laid to grave".
Back to the basics of life - back to Michael Joe, back to family, values, back to the truth.
This includes the themes above and spirituality and love.
Giving away the not needed (like for Julian's auctions) frees the spirit and makes life easy and new.
Matthew 5
Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount
1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.
The Beatitudes
He said:
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7%3A29&version=NIV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7%3A29&version=NIV)
Last but not least there's the clever person, reminding me so much of The Brave Little Tailor (a fairy tale collected by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm) who can strike down seven with one blow. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html)
Hope you have the best of all times, Michael.
-
This is what Dave Dave said on LKL:
"To liberate myself from the confines of my father's criminality."
"He caused all this."
"To free myself of his name and his legacy, I decided to become my own person with changing my name."
Yes, from the beginning it was strange to me he said those things above - one more reason to believe he was MJ or he was conveing Michael's message with those words.
But there's another aspect: Michael forgave his father so I don't quite understand why he would want to "liberate" himself.
The whole Dave Dave thing is so strange :shock: errrr ...
-
Ok... i will engage.
Often one of my stumbling blocks to the hoax is Karen Faye and Michael Bush. They both say they dressed Michael for his coffin and Karen states she put make up and wig on him.
To this day, Karen has never deviated from this and insists he is dead and she prepared the body.
I know there have been arguments over whether she is qualified to do this (but to me, that is a side issue. She is a make up artist and its plausable she could do this).
I still havent heard any valid arguments to debunk Karen and her claims.
[font=cursive:wakp4zae]SURE....something about Karen's story ISN"T right...that being....
LaToya also said she dressed Michael.....so who do you believe???
Neither. It's a show.[/font:wakp4zae]
Could you direct me to where LaToya has said this? As i have never seen this from LaToya. x x
-
"I said in one of my last posts:
We have several layers in this journey, several repetitive themes.
- family (holistic doctor, child support etc.)
- professional ethics (medical, pharmacy, hospital, lawyers, court, police, etc.)
- weapons, war and all related (stun gun, Lopez, army etc.)
- fire (burning, Pepsi, Arnie, jacket, money, etc.)
- cardiac (heart, blood, love, emotions, etc.)
- time (delays, numbers, etc.)
- illusion (reality vs. perception etc., open eyes, show = make see, autopsy = see for yourself, etc.)
- belief (persuadation, religion, God, judgements, etc.)
- change (individual, regional, global etc.)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727)
Adding: cleaning the house / name.
Plus enjoying life."
"The hoax is not a hoax since 2009. This is all about the time before June 25.
This disappearance is encouraging us to look into what happened before to see and understand truth.
This is an invitation into Michael's life as much as he invited us into the various "makings of" songs and videos after June 25. This is actually letting us come close.
It was a very brave decision to put a final fullstop to many things that had made Michael's life unbearable.
June 25, 2009 put an end to the hoax that had started in the 80s if not earlier.
That's why the ambulance picture, the memorial and the funeral set was all pointing to Michael from that era because that Michael (marketed brand image) was "laid to grave".
Back to the basics of life - back to Michael Joe, back to family, values, back to the truth.
This includes the themes above and spirituality and love.
Giving away the not needed (like for Julian's auctions) frees the spirit and makes life easy and new."[/i][/color]
This 2 parts of your post made me go WOW,and blow my mind away,thank you GRACE !!!!!!!!
I agree with you in everything you said.This hoax is about the PAST and about knowing the past,because without the THE PAST, there is No PRESENT and No FUTURE.Remember this: "IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR PAST,YOU'R CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT"
How can we understand something from this giant mountain of contradictions that is this hoax today,if we don't know what caused this???????
We have to dig deep,to disect hard the Hoax,the PAST to be more exact,and it's not about a murder for sure.This GIANT HOAX is composed from many things like,DRAMA,ROMANCE,ADVENTURE,ACTION,COMEDY and HORROR,you know just like in real life.We as individuals can absorb all this and learn something from it.It's up to us if we want to LEARN what Michael is trying to teach us.It's about LIFE,a beautiful life that we can have together as human beings,we just have to let go to THE FEAR and see THE SIGN in front of us.The only thing that can make us weak is THE FEAR. How many of us are brave enough to let go our MASK,that we wear every single day and do what we want in our own way????????? Few of us for sure.We are afraid to let go THE MASK,becasue of the FEAR to beeing JUDGED.Remember how many times Michael was JUDGED because of his decisions?????????? It's very hard to be MR.MICHAEL JACKSON indeed .I have to confess I cried very hard watching the Memorial when Marlon was speaking about Michael beeing judged and ridiculed.To be honest and genuine this days is very hard,you need alot of COURAGE to do it,for sure.
COURAGE-Dancing the dream
It's curious what takes courage and what doesn't. When I step out on stage in front of thousands of people, I don't feel that I'm being brave. It can take much more courage to express true feelings to one person. When I think of courage, I think of the Cowardly Lion in The Wizard of Oz. He was always running away from danger. He often cried and shook with fear. But he was also sharing his real feelings with those he loved, even though he didn't always like those feelings.
That takes real courage, the courage to be intimate. Expressing your feelings is not the same as falling apart in front of someone else -- it's being accepting and true to your heart, whatever it may say. When you have the courage to be intimate, you know who you are, and you're willing to let others see that. It's scary, because you feel so vulnerable, so open to rejection. But without self-acceptance, the other kind of courage, the kind heroes show in movies, seems hollow. In spite of the risks, the courage to be honest and intimate opens the way to self-discovery. It offers what we all want, the promise of love. -MICHAEL JACKSON
I want to share something with all of you,a interwiev I found recently and it's form 1999 .Is the first time I heard this one and it's the first time I heard MICHAEL CRY for real because of his LOVE FOR CHILDREN.As I told before to be honest and sincere,it takes alot of COURAGE. <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: -->
Michael Jackson - Daily Mirror Interview [Rare] (1999)
[BBvideo 425,350:2nktz2cf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtH2KcSDlc4[/BBvideo:2nktz2cf]
Now talking about the FEAR of ILLUMINATI,lol,how can you be afraid of something you don't even know .You are afraid of who or what exactly,??????Why we always have to blame someone else??? I'm just thinking about what Michael said in This is it: "THEY WHO?? I's start with us!!!!!"
Everyone of us,rich or poor have the duty to make a change,to try to be giving and loving with people,just like Michael did.Let go THE FEAR and LIVE the life for God's sake!!!!.
LOVE
-
The vast majority of the clues are entertainment style, circus elephants before the memorial and such.
[...]
Entertainment provides a platform to spread a message and to be heard on grand scale. Entertainers are in a very powerful position with their fame and popularity that should not be overlooked. Entertainers can inspire and bring about real change, whether its to start a fashion trend or usher in an entirely new sociological age of enlightenment... I suppose when you think about it, the possibilities are endless.
I am with you. There are several very strong entertaining aspects in this - more entertaining aspects than criminal aspects.
Maybe we receive more entertaining momenti for some reasons or we are no good criminal investigators - well, we did not get an apprenticeship in criminal investigation before and we don't have the means at hand to investigate in detail.
So forgiving ourselves as to this criminal investigator imperfectness, we can work on what may be closer to us: entertainment.
I said in one of my last posts:
We have several layers in this journey, several repetitive themes.
- family (holistic doctor, child support etc.)
- professional ethics (medical, pharmacy, hospital, lawyers, court, police, etc.)
- weapons, war and all related (stun gun, Lopez, army etc.)
- fire (burning, Pepsi, Arnie, jacket, money, etc.)
- cardiac (heart, blood, love, emotions, etc.)
- time (delays, numbers, etc.)
- illusion (reality vs. perception etc., open eyes, show = make see, autopsy = see for yourself, etc.)
- belief (persuadation, religion, God, judgements, etc.)
- change (individual, regional, global etc.)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727)
Adding: cleaning the house / name.
Plus enjoying life.
What kind of criminal evidence did we understand from what media told us?
The police not sealing the location, Murray's car being towed, Murray being searched and found, Murray being a witness not a suspect, Murray being left alone again for quite some time, walking freely, continuing "practicing", being interviewed, photographed, mainly by NPG and TMZ, Murray in court with toys, "I don't want you sedating people", interview with Mr. Chernoff "everything's slow in California", continued delays, the AR publication, the coroner's statements, etc. Everything that was missing compared to "real" cases and everything that was too much to make it a "real" case (like a "make-up" on a clown will only dramatize what needs to be shown and hide what needs to be hidden - for the performance).
TMZ's continued manipulation "giving direction, "hints" and opinions" as the center of information distribution doesn't help any further in getting an answer on any criminal investigation - except: it's all about entertainment.
TMZ are not FBI's PR center (at least not to my knowledge, but yes, maybe Harvey is an undercover agent too?).
What we know is they are doing entertainment business and making their money from and within this entertainment industry. So TMZ is about entertainment first.
When I did say: "don't kick murder out of your mind" I meant this to keep the balance in this dance and to keep eyes open. We have these alternatives:
- nobody died (variants: get away from lawsuits, get away from concerts, get away from paparazzi, get away from fans, get away from publicity, take a sabbatical for the kids, take a sabbatical for a lady, take a sabbatical for himself, etc)
- somebody died (variants: gardener, housekeeper, impersonator, deadly ill person willing to take "Michael's place" to set him free, the romanian guy, etc)
- somebody important (to Michael) died (variants: friend, colleague etc)
- somebody important (to the family) died (variants: brother, twin, cousin, impersonating family member etc.)
- somebody important (to the industry) died (variants: the brand as such was switched to a milk cow without too much investment, M Joseph J the singer & dancer brand part died, M Joe J the entertainer brand part stayed behind the curtains etc)
- somebody important (to the industry) HAD to "die" on intention (variants: M Joseph J the singer & dancer brand part ("I LOVE to tour", on Michael's intention, on the industry's intention, etc)
In the last case, we again have a murder case, but it is the murder of a brand leitmotif not of a human being.
Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being with "malice aforethought", and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). As the loss of a human being inflicts enormous grief upon the individuals close to the victim, as well as the fact that the commission of a murder is highly detrimental to the good order within society, most societies both present and in antiquity have considered it a most serious crime worthy of the harshest of punishment. In most countries, a person convicted of murder is typically given a long prison sentence, possibly a life sentence where permitted, and in some countries, the death penalty may be imposed for such an act — though this practice is becoming less common.[1] In most countries, there is no statute of limitations for murder (no time limit for prosecuting someone for murder). A person who commits murder is called a murderer .[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)
The question remaining in this murder case is: who's intention was it, who did it and what will be the punishment - if any - for that act.
If we do not have a physical human being's life that ended but an artificial stage life set to stop on purpose (with a cardiac arrest meaning a stop of love and life) - who was harmed if not the fans and many leaches - and who did profit if not sales results, the clearing of Michael's name, the cleaning from false friends, from unpleasant lawsuits, having contracts running out, getting a mega deal contract fixed with Sony, renovating Havenhurst, getting the family and the kids tighter and safe as to financial support. Following the money trail we have the industry AND the family profiting which is a standard business win-win-situation.
Coming back to the initially mentioned themes during these two years:
they are not linked to any criminal activity, they are not linked to entertainment (except illusion).
However, they have a strong educational foundation.
With this we are back in 2009 when I wondered about the new edutainment stream in media.
This is what Dave Dave said on LKL:
"To liberate myself from the confines of my father's criminality."
"He caused all this."
"To free myself of his name and his legacy, I decided to become my own person with changing my name."
I think that says it all.
[BBvideo 425,350:k8tvgwfv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw[/BBvideo:k8tvgwfv]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw)
The hoax is not a hoax since 2009. This is all about the time before June 25.
This disappearance is encouraging us to look into what happened before to see and understand truth.
This is an invitation into Michael's life as much as he invited us into the various "makings of" songs and videos after June 25. This is actually letting us come close.
It was a very brave decision to put a final fullstop to many things that had made Michael's life unbearable.
June 25, 2009 put an end to the hoax that had started in the 80s if not earlier.
That's why the ambulance picture, the memorial and the funeral set was all pointing to Michael from that era because that Michael (marketed brand image) was "laid to grave".
Back to the basics of life - back to Michael Joe, back to family, values, back to the truth.
This includes the themes above and spirituality and love.
Giving away the not needed (like for Julian's auctions) frees the spirit and makes life easy and new.
Matthew 5
Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount
1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.
The Beatitudes
He said:
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7%3A29&version=NIV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7%3A29&version=NIV)
Last but not least there's the clever person, reminding me so much of The Brave Little Tailor (a fairy tale collected by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm) who can strike down seven with one blow. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html)
Hope you have the best of all times, Michael.
I love the way you post Grace and i so agree with all these aspects.
-
I love the way you post Grace and i so agree with all these aspects.
Same here!
Coming back to the initially mentioned themes during these two years:
they are not linked to any criminal activity, they are not linked to entertainment (except illusion).
However, they have a strong educational foundation.
With this we are back in 2009 when I wondered about the new edutainment stream in media.
and I highlighted this part, because Michael's hoax with its strong educational foundation is exposing many aspects, specially the biased media and its influence. We all will be taught by Michael with L.O.V.E.
LOVE
-
Ok... i will engage.
Often one of my stumbling blocks to the hoax is Karen Faye and Michael Bush. They both say they dressed Michael for his coffin and Karen states she put make up and wig on him.
To this day, Karen has never deviated from this and insists he is dead and she prepared the body.
I know there have been arguments over whether she is qualified to do this (but to me, that is a side issue. She is a make up artist and its plausable she could do this).
I still havent heard any valid arguments to debunk Karen and her claims.
[font=cursive:1qildtj8]SURE....something about Karen's story ISN"T right...that being....
LaToya also said she dressed Michael.....so who do you believe???
Neither. It's a show.[/font:1qildtj8]
Could you direct me to where LaToya has said this? As i have never seen this from LaToya. x x
[font=cursive:1qildtj8]You know...I can't find a thing about that statement now. I remember writing a comment about it saying "how could she LIFT Michael us?" But, I can't find it and I can't find anything with her saying that online either. You know how you memorize facts that we've learned? Such as .. the family going into Carolwood the next few days after the hoax began.... then you just remember it as something you KNOW. Well, that's me with this. I wrote the comment, knew it was on here for remembering. Now, I can't find my statement or where it even came from.
MAYBE I WAS DREAMING??
Sorry....[/font:1qildtj8]
-
In my humble opinion, I strongly disagree with anyone putting out in the Universe that Michael stated as Dave-Dave that he wanted to free himself from his father’s name and legacy. Do we not know how that sounds? Cheap, first of all. If that be the case, he should drop the name JACKSON. When he got 18, he should have dropped it like a hot tamale.
He is proud of his name and his father. Period! He is proud of his MOTHERLAND – and his African brothers and sisters. Word! He is proud of his children, his immediate family and his extended family. Prince and Blanket have the middle name Joseph. Some speculate that Omer’s real name for US purposes back when MJ brought him over at the age eight is Michael Joe Winters. It’s on Google. So much for hating his father and his father’s name –eh?
The main thing I see happening with this hoax from the beginning is THE JACKSON FAMILY DYNASTY AND JACKSON FAMILY UNITY. Michael is not stupid. He has called his father a managerial genius. He has stated publically that he is very much like his father in a lot of ways. As he has stated in Geraldo interview the values he learned from his father, the influences his father had on him and his siblings – and how his father is the one who taught them to believe in their ideals and to stand by their beliefs. And no matter what – no STAR is ever too far to reach – and that you never give up. NOW!
This hoax is a film. ARG/documentary and epose all wrapped up in one. Michael’s father is partly responsible for MJ having such dreams and aspirations as it pertains to pulling off this hoax. What did MJ have to forgive his father for? Joe Jackson is the father. Plus, he is helping his SON to pull it off - proper.
MJ was mind-controlled and there is video evidence of at least one of the time periods when this occurred. I think there were three. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that his controllers would keep him from his family. On Bennie’s blog – some great points were made pointing to this very fact. What some don’t seem to get is that in exposing this aspect of what happened to him, MJ WILL PROVE BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT ALTHOUGH THE CONTROLLERS TRIED TO KEEP HIM FROM LOVING AND TRUSTING HIS FAMILY. GUESS WHAT? THEY LOST.
It’s a VICTORY and TRIUMPH that the Jacksons HAVE a Family Dynasty. It’s 2300 Hundred Jackson Street. It’s a TAKEOVER by the Jacksons. Michael is a Jackson. He is proud to be one – and he is proving with this hoax how they all RULE. They all have merit. Michael is not BETTER than any of his family members. Maybe to some narrow-minded and hard hearted people on this board is he better, but he is not! He has sinned just like they all have. Just like we all have. No one is perfect.
MJ has stated that his family members are his best friends. Where is the disconnect with some on this issue? They are all in on this together. They all have a lot of nerve. They can all perform – and they are proving it now as we speak. They can all act – as we all can act out of ourselves if we so choose. They feel that it is a calling for them all to participate in this hoax/film – because they believe that God has called them to do it – with Michael at the helm.
They understand what he’s been through, who controlled him at times and so on. They know that he is a Gift from God. They’ve always known it. And for some to keep trying to disconnect MJ from his family, it’s not going to work. He needs his family – period. He needed them to pull off this hoax. Without them, why would there be a need for a Memorial? If MJ had only a brother left, would they have thought to carry out something like this? The Jacksons - Variety Show was a huge success - and it wasn't just because of Michael. They were all great.
Without Papa Joe securing the deal for his children and co-producing it, MJ or the others might have faded from the scene. Who knows how it would have turned out, but the odds, in my opinion, are that MJ wouldn't have blown up. He might not have met Quincy when he did when they talked about doing music together, and so on - as it wouldn't have been DESTINY/destined (Another Jackson's tour name) for such a meeting. As it was, it did happen and the rest is HISTORY/THEIRSTORY. Not so without Papa Joe. Who would have been the pall bearers? THE JACKSONS ARE COMING. Unity and Higher Consciousness is coming and is here for the Jacksons. They are for the most part AWAKE AND AWARE - and have always seemed to be alert. I think the men have been aware for a long time.
This TAKEOVER is not just about MJ. There is no question that his name and music is the one generating money and continued fame, but he doesn’t care about money. He knows that paper money is all an illusion. It’s about Gold as it pertains to wealth – and he has abundance over in Gabon, Africa for the taking if he so chooses, because it is a Gold Mining village. Gold all around. I don’t think that impresses MJ as much as love and unity does still. He knows that money and gold can’t buy happiness. Happiness comes from love and family and unity, and lastly HOPE.
Again, you’d be so very wrong to insinuate that MJ wants to free himself from his legacy. What fallacy. He is boldly performing this hoax with the help of all he Jacksons and Mama Kate’s relatives from her side. If nothing else, he is proving that he indeed loves his LEGACY enormously – as it and his father is the only one he has. This is why in the hotel room in Las Vegas, he repeated asked his father “What do I do”, as the arrest warrant was issued. If not for his father, he made have indeed up in the big house. He knows this. Again, he is not stupid. He knows that God wants him to HONOR HIS PARENTS. He is taking care of them as he should. Not only should he because he knows that it pleases God, he does it because he is A LOVER. He knows how to LOVE. He has a heart – and it is giving.
MJ knows that his LEGACY and the family name Jackson is where it is at. They all are paying back with Revenge. Who cares who likes this one or not. They know us not. We’re like specs of grain to them. They understand their reality very much – and they can step outside of the illusion whilst at the same time – they have shifted many folk’s realities by pulling off this hoax. THE KING OF POP is dead. The King of many hearts and of an African Village – still reigns supreme with the help and protection of the Ultimate Supreme King.
If no other dot needs to be connected, it’s this one right here. THE JACKSONS ARE COMING AND HAVE ARRIVED. GAME OVER. A TOAST. And like Jackie said in the Jackson Family Dynasty series, “You know how we do when we are UNDER PRESSURE.
I liked your take Souza, but I disagree that what MJ will do eventually will be some kind of Spiritual Awakening to free the world. He has already stated that he can't do it by himself. I think what he wants us to do is to AWAKE to a higher level of Consciousness together. That possibly would have the same affect you are purporting - no question. Because the critical mass has already been reached. The thing is, supposedly by 12-21-12 - all life forms's DNA will be upgraded. What scientists call "junk DNA" is really DNA unactivated. When it is activiated, "llok out", for then "Heal the World" will beome our Reality and we will ceast living a life of Duality. That linear line will be replcaed by US living in the NOW with God and the Universe. MJ more or less stated it in his 1992 Ebony interview from Africa. He knows what's up, and many believe he is already there. Awakened by God in all His glory. Again, this is my take.
I also enjoyed reading several authors here lately on this theard, and especially from Bec, Good going.
-
@Gina, yes I think so. I think it's a murder mystery style plot. The family is perpetuating it, saying Michael told them he was afraid for his life. The obvious question they haven't answered about that is: if Michael said he was afraid he was going to be murdered, why didn't you DO anything?
Also, if Michael is in fear for his life, why would he not call the FBI? Or one of his siblings have called? Also, would the FBI not already have knowledge of a plot to kill MJ considering they followed him and eavesdropped on him for 11 years up until 2005?
Yes, I agree with this murder mystery 'Whodunit?' build up. Those who believe MJ died 6/25/09 will accept anything told to them by the media and family, fake autopsy reports and fake death certificate. They will accept the staged 911 call from Beverly Hills Hotel. They do not have what we have, an eye for detail. A need for more than just 'Long Live the King. :cry: '. I think we all got where we are today by being the kind of people who get as close as we can to the picture and examine every fiber, every misplaced hair, every dot that connects to the next. Its liberating! We are living in the mind of Michael Jackson!! Every theory is plausible and should not be thrown out right away. A murder theory doesn't add up. Everything from Michael walking out of doctor's offices, being pushed around in a wheelchair (with the guy pushing about to laugh it seems)
(http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/michael.jpg)
And the rare lung condition and transplants and all this random craziness he created to make all theories seem possible. The death threats: Murder Theory. The diseased, frail, old, dying man: Natural Death Theory. The Suicidal MJ: Suicide Theory.
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/12/13/alg_michael-jackson.jpg)
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/12/21/2008-12-21_report_frail_michael_jackson_suffering_f.html
I mean, how do you go from 'at death's door to this:
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01364/michael_jackson_1364792c.jpg)
(http://static.gigwise.com/gallery/7012089_MichaelO2-10.jpg)
:lol: He's clownin' us! I believe that the theories we debate over were all created by him. Whichever one you decide to believe of the ones listed above will lead you to his death and your journey ends on 6/25/09. But few pick the Hoax theory, the truth hidden behind the mask. The truth is his hiding place. When you chose the Hoax theory, it leads you on a roller coaster of events, from magic escapism excitement and wonderment to a very sad and serious side that should be handle gently. We learn more and more of a man that has been exploited in the most disgusting way one can imagine, from a small child to a grown man. A man who has a heart of gold and is articulate and brilliant enough to share it with the world. And it is understood by all walks of human life. Its beautiful and we are very lucky to know this side of Michael: the child within all of us can relate to the child Michael has always been and will always be. I went off subject a little, but I'm emotional sometimes. :)
-
In my humble opinion, I strongly disagree with anyone putting out in the Universe that Michael stated as Dave-Dave that he wanted to free himself from his father’s name and legacy. Do we not know how that sounds? Cheap, first of all. If that be the case, he should drop the name JACKSON. When he got 18, he should have dropped it like a hot tamale.
Means you disagree with that Dave being Michael Jackson?
-
@ Peacock7 - I didn't want to quote your original post because it's so long.
I think we should all remember though that MJ had many rough years with his father and many ins and outs with his entire family. We have heard of this for MANY years from ALL of the family members at one time or another. They have not always been a tight-knit family. I do agree that the family is in on it, they would almost have to be. I don't think every single Jackson family member knows though but that's another topic. I also don't think that they as in the entire Jackson clan is doing this for revenge for things that have been done wrong to them. Michael is the one that has been attacked for years on end. Honestly, when was the last time any of them besides Janet have really been in the spotlight? When was the last time LaToya put out a new album, not only put out a new album but did it to where people actually listened to it wholeheartedly. I'm not saying that she isn't a good singer by her own doing (I actually haven't listened to anything she's done) so I can't fully respond on that. Imagine all of the publicity that the family is getting. More then normal, when was the last time that the paps have followed Jermaine, Randy, Tito around to the extent that they have done within the last two years? I have no doubt what so ever that the Jackson's love each other and are more then willing to help each other out the way they are now, but I also see what they are personally gaining out of this. Who knows perhaps that was part of their deal.
My point being is that yes, I've watched the interview were MJ said everything about Joe but I've also watched other interviews about Joe beating him. I speak from personal experience that his way of thinking differently about Joe did not come over night. We shouldn't assume that just because they are helping each other out now means that everything is blissful with the family. They all have their own agenda and within the last two years the only one I have seen not reap any of the benefits is Katherine.
-
By Michael faked his death, I do not know :roll: (I'm convinced and nobody is going to change your mind)
-Plot of murder or death threats?
-SONY-AEG?
-The Illuminati, (SONY)?
-He did it for their children?
It seems very strange that the family echoes what the media say, MJ was an "addict", this does not do them any favors if you really want to do "justice."
If we find the truth we must investigate all possibilities, not death, if not the how and why did.
-
In my humble opinion, I strongly disagree with anyone putting out in the Universe that Michael stated as Dave-Dave that he wanted to free himself from his father’s name and legacy. Do we not know how that sounds? Cheap, first of all. If that be the case, he should drop the name JACKSON. When he got 18, he should have dropped it like a hot tamale.
Means you disagree with that Dave being Michael Jackson?
I don't want to speak for peacock, but to me, those lines were for the character Dave Dave, as in, those were things the real Dave Dave would say if he were on LKL; much like all the praise he heaped upon Michael, these were lines in a script written for Dave Dave's character. Remember, Michael was playing a part, he was Dave Dave in that moment, and not Michael Jackson in disguise.
I agree Michael is not appearing to be seeking to free himself from Joe Jackson's legacy. If anything he appears to be reveling in it.
-
@Gina, yes I think so. I think it's a murder mystery style plot. The family is perpetuating it, saying Michael told them he was afraid for his life. The obvious question they haven't answered about that is: if Michael said he was afraid he was going to be murdered, why didn't you DO anything?
Also, if Michael is in fear for his life, why would he not call the FBI? Or one of his siblings have called? Also, would the FBI not already have knowledge of a plot to kill MJ considering they followed him and eavesdropped on him for 11 years up until 2005?
I think all of the above did happen. The family DID do something. Michael DID call the FBI but they already knew. Hence the hoax, with the FBI involved. I firmly believe in some things but I refuse to post them in the open. I also think that things are coming to a head. There may be too much "investigating" going on with fans. Believers as well as nonbelievers. Jermaine is trying to put the brakes on it because it's not time to reveal. The officials aren't finished with their own investigating. Then last week Randy tweeted something like, "they are watching". That may be a hint for us to shut the hell up and stop with the hows and whys. Whoever "they" are, being the Illuuminati or Italian Mafia, is considered by me to be extremely dangerous. I think if we don't watch it we could make matters worse. This being said, I think MJ is in protective custody for his safety. Michael is "dead". Let him stay dead. For the time being, that is. The FBI owes Michael big time. At least in the "Color of Law" aspect. I for one want them to make it right. Waiting for the truth to prevail. crash/
-
Hmmm. Not sure yet what to think about this interview with Latoya. Any thoughts? I think it may pertain to the topic at hand.
http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/video?id=8228397 (http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/video?id=8228397)
-
If Michael were "dead" there would be no Liberian Girl theme to the memorial/burial. No, there are clues, big FAT clues, that indicate to anyone who cares to notice that Michael IS simply "dead".
Also, if Michael was in fear for his life and safety, those kids never would have been revealed... not before 6/25 and not after either. They would be forever shrouded and their identity forever concealed because that would be the only safety they would ever know. You don't present your children to the world and parade them all over the public stage if you're worried about evil-doers wanting to harm you. That makes no sense.
-
If Michael were "dead" there would be no Liberian Girl theme to the memorial/burial. No, there are clues, big FAT clues, that indicate to anyone who cares to notice that Michael IS simply "dead".
[highlight=#ff40ff:2la4shej]Also, if Michael was in fear for his life and safety, those kids never would have been revealed... not before 6/25 and not after either. They would be forever shrouded and their identity forever concealed because that would be the only safety they would ever know. You don't present your children to the world and parade them all over the public stage if you're worried about evil-doers wanting to harm you. That makes no sense.
[/highlight:2la4shej]
I COMPLETELY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
If Michael were "dead" there would be no Liberian Girl theme to the memorial/burial. No, there are clues, big FAT clues, that indicate to anyone who cares to notice that Michael IS simply "dead".
Also, if Michael was in fear for his life and safety, those kids never would have been revealed... not before 6/25 and not after either. They would be forever shrouded and their identity forever concealed because that would be the only safety they would ever know. You don't present your children to the world and parade them all over the public stage if you're worried about evil-doers wanting to harm you. That makes no sense.
I said I think he's in protective custody for his safety. He's not out there somewhere with no official protection. In disguise or hiding. That would be absurd. And Michael is the one who said he feared "they" would kill him. You can't kill a person who is already dead. He's presumed dead by most since 7-25-09.
And why go for the kids? If they were still concealed they would be bigger targets. Something could hapen to them and the world wouldn't know. This is one of the few times that the media is working for Michaels own agenda. If they miss a day of paps, something would be wrong! Michael knows they're safer now than living with him. He knew what he was doing when he showed the world his children. They can't be protected if we don't know who we're protecting. This is my own humble opinion, though ;)
-
If Michael were "dead" there would be no Liberian Girl theme to the memorial/burial. No, there are clues, big FAT clues, that indicate to anyone who cares to notice that Michael IS simply "dead".
Also, if Michael was in fear for his life and safety, those kids never would have been revealed... not before 6/25 and not after either. They would be forever shrouded and their identity forever concealed because that would be the only safety they would ever know. You don't present your children to the world and parade them all over the public stage if you're worried about evil-doers wanting to harm you. That makes no sense.
I said I think he's in protective custody for his safety. He's not out there somewhere with no official protection. In disguise or hiding. That would be absurd. And Michael is the one who said he feared "they" would kill him. You can't kill a person who is already dead. He's presumed dead by most since 7-25-09.
And why go for the kids? If they were still concealed they would be bigger targets. Something could hapen to them and the world wouldn't know. This is one of the few times that the media is working for Michaels own agenda. If they miss a day of paps, something would be wrong! Michael knows they're safer now than living with him. He knew what he was doing when he showed the world his children. They can't be protected if we don't know who we're protecting. This is my own humble opinion, though ;)
Still no explanation for the clues though.
If Michael was revealing the children for their own safety, that would be a complete 180 in mindset and game plan then he had for the past 12 years. Suddenly he feels he needs to show them to the world to keep them safe where as previously he kept them shrouded for their safety? I don't follow this line of reasoning. Why the sudden change of game plan?
When you dissect the logic of revealing them to keep them safe; so they are followed by the paps daily to document their whereabouts so that if something happens to them we all know about it... so what? What's anyone to do about it after the fact? Nothing. Paps following and documenting their existence and whereabouts doesn't provide them with a safety net should someone step in to harm them. There is no recourse just because they are gone and it is public. Michael always said remember the Limburgh baby. That child was in the public eye and abducted and everyone knew about it and that child was never found. A documented disappearance did that baby no good.
-
@Gina, yes I think so. I think it's a murder mystery style plot. The family is perpetuating it, saying Michael told them he was afraid for his life. The obvious question they haven't answered about that is: if Michael said he was afraid he was going to be murdered, why didn't you DO anything?
Also, if Michael is in fear for his life, why would he not call the FBI? Or one of his siblings have called? Also, would the FBI not already have knowledge of a plot to kill MJ considering they followed him and eavesdropped on him for 11 years up until 2005?
I agree with you bec. For Michael to say he was afraid for his life, it was all part of the plan, He was not in danger what so ever.I may be wrong here, but usually my intuitions are always accurate. Like I wrote previous post , and I do not want to sound like a parrot again lolol/ Michael did not , I repeat did not want to do these concerts, he was forced to do them so he would get money and be on track again. Even if he had his catalogue, he did not want to sell that. Tii was meant to be a movie all along, he " the genius that he is" knew that the movie would have made more money then all the 50 concerts put together. So the logical thing to do, so he wouldn't be sewed by AEG IS TO FAKE HIS DEATH..Once you are dead, they cannot sew the artist. As one of the member stated on my last post was "[highlight=#ffff00:3u2lz5m9]the Statue of Limitations in California for filing a lawsuit for fraud is 3 years!!![/highlight:3u2lz5m9] So meaning Michael will come back in 2012. For me this sounds more plausible then him feeling that he was going to get murdered. Like I said this was all part of his plan.
-
Limburgh baby
You mean Lindbergh. Just in case someone wants to google it. ;)
-
If Michael were "dead" there would be no Liberian Girl theme to the memorial/burial. No, there are clues, big FAT clues, that indicate to anyone who cares to notice that Michael IS simply "dead".
Also, if Michael was in fear for his life and safety, those kids never would have been revealed... not before 6/25 and not after either. They would be forever shrouded and their identity forever concealed because that would be the only safety they would ever know. You don't present your children to the world and parade them all over the public stage if you're worried about evil-doers wanting to harm you. That makes no sense.
I said I think he's in protective custody for his safety. He's not out there somewhere with no official protection. In disguise or hiding. That would be absurd. And Michael is the one who said he feared "they" would kill him. You can't kill a person who is already dead. He's presumed dead by most since 7-25-09.
And why go for the kids? If they were still concealed they would be bigger targets. Something could hapen to them and the world wouldn't know. This is one of the few times that the media is working for Michaels own agenda. If they miss a day of paps, something would be wrong! Michael knows they're safer now than living with him. He knew what he was doing when he showed the world his children. They can't be protected if we don't know who we're protecting. This is my own humble opinion, though ;)
Still no explanation for the clues though.
If Michael was revealing the children for their own safety, that would be a complete 180 in mindset and game plan then he had for the past 12 years. Suddenly he feels he needs to show them to the world to keep them safe where as previously he kept them shrouded for their safety? I don't follow this line of reasoning. Why the sudden change of game plan?
When you dissect the logic of revealing them to keep them safe; so they are followed by the paps daily to document their whereabouts so that if something happens to them we all know about it... so what? What's anyone to do about it after the fact? Nothing. Paps following and documenting their existence and whereabouts doesn't provide them with a safety net should someone step in to harm them. There is no recourse just because they are gone and it is public. Michael always said remember the Limburgh baby. That child was in the public eye and abducted and everyone knew about it and that child was never found. A documented disappearance did that baby no good.
Again, what I DIDN'T say was that the children were/are in danger. That is/was Michael's fear/s. Like he said, he feared for his life. If MJ is "dead", what use would they (whoever "they" are) have with the kids? I guess I've not figured that one out. Now, if they think he's alive they could use the kids against him. That would be terrifying. IF they need protected I feel this is the way. I guess some would prefer them be hidden for the rest of their lives. Michael knows that isn't feasible. Michael's in charge of his children. We can't even begin to understand and may never know his reasons for doing this. My opinion is that safety is a, if not THE reason, for his actions. I do like to have discussions. You have your opinion, I respect that. I have mine and I'd prefer to not have them dissected to fit others' "logic."
P.S. I've not heard of a child abduction occuring when the child has FBI agents posing as body guards and chauffers. Ok, I don't know this to be accurate. But this, too, is my opinion. bearhug
-
Michael himself said he felt and believed he was in danger. Who are we to say what he felt and believed or not? Ppl have been after him for years. This was not an overnight declaration. IN MY OPINION.....the FBI is involved. There's no way to pull this off without them. They're not doing it for Brownie points. Please, someone explain to me otherwise. I want to understand. Truly, really I do.
-
Gema
In the New Testament book of Revelations, it says:
“They continued to ‘raise their fists at God, refuse to repent and sores were all over their bodies’ ”
Revelations. Chapter 16: vs. 11
What translation is that from? In 10 or so different main translations there is no reference to raising fists at God in that verse. Scroll down. http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#vrsn/11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=16&v=11&t=KJV#vrsn/11)
I am not sure if I did it right since I am not bible friendly :) . I copied the interpretation from a blog. Anyway, here the text talking about raising their fist because they were angry:
"They blasphemed the God of heaven… Again, those on earth respond in blaspheming God. The righteousness of God’s wrath demonstrated by its recipients, for the second time humanity shakes their fist toward heaven, and blasphemes God’s name"
http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/re ... elation16/ (http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/revelation/revelation16/)
-
Ok... i will engage.
Often one of my stumbling blocks to the hoax is Karen Faye and Michael Bush. They both say they dressed Michael for his coffin and Karen states she put make up and wig on him.
To this day, Karen has never deviated from this and insists he is dead and she prepared the body.
I know there have been arguments over whether she is qualified to do this (but to me, that is a side issue. She is a make up artist and its plausable she could do this).
I still havent heard any valid arguments to debunk Karen and her claims.
[font=cursive:2pf3marh]SURE....something about Karen's story ISN"T right...that being....
LaToya also said she dressed Michael.....so who do you believe???
Neither. It's a show.[/font:2pf3marh]
Could you direct me to where LaToya has said this? As i have never seen this from LaToya. x x
[font=cursive:2pf3marh]You know...I can't find a thing about that statement now. I remember writing a comment about it saying "how could she LIFT Michael us?" But, I can't find it and I can't find anything with her saying that online either. You know how you memorize facts that we've learned? Such as .. the family going into Carolwood the next few days after the hoax began.... then you just remember it as something you KNOW. Well, that's me with this. I wrote the comment, knew it was on here for remembering. Now, I can't find my statement or where it even came from.
MAYBE I WAS DREAMING??
Sorry....[/font:2pf3marh]
Guys, you might want to read what I wrote on page 13 for you... La Toya never said she dressed MJ, her description of MJ in casket does not match with what Michael Bush said.
But Bec disagree with Curl that there was no need for Michael be "dead" for FBI to sting an operation because their website has article about entertainment. But I agree with Curl and have said many times that "sting operation" does NOT fit death theory since to realize sting operation Michael really does not have to be dead.
For murder theory we do not have a proof beyond reasonable acceptance that there is a valid motive or circumstances, details, facts that Michael was killed. Or if there is one, please respond with solid proof. Instead we see facts that make us think Michael should be alive. However, we also have uncleared questions I wrote above, but no one tries to reasonably explain how we got autopsy that led Conrad to manslaughter trial. It is NOT enough to say it is fake. It is there, how it got there? Maybe there is an accidental death but we don't want to face?
But we also have no clear explanation to what happened to camera tapes? Maybe there is nothing special or killer destroyed it, or there was none, or Michael managed to take it with him, or...?
As for fake ambulance photo, I can interpret this way, opposing hoax: Ben was told there is an ambulance in MJ house & drove right away to Carolwood because "there is always money in relation to Michael" as he said. He was not successful to take a photo, but he did want to make money for wasted time and therefore came up with the idea himself to photoshop picture using Michael's previous photo and SOLD it out. That's all he was interested in. How does this sound?
As for Karen and Michael Bush story,@ Ms.Pepper and Ford, that they dressed and put make up on Michael, that IS fishy because it does not add up with La Toya's description of what MJ was wearing in the coffin. I sent a msg. to Karen myself on tweeter why their stories do not match, she replied that I have to ask her (LaToya) about that. Finally during the recent "fight" on tweeter Karen vs Pearl Jr. vs. believers-fans vs. Jermain over hoax vs. death subject, Karen never mentioned again as a reminder that MJ is dead because she put make up on him herself. But the final bomb was her tweet that "If there were a hoax, you would know shit". You need to review Karen's tweet thread.
-
Gema
In the New Testament book of Revelations, it says:
“They continued to ‘raise their fists at God, refuse to repent and sores were all over their bodies’ ”
Revelations. Chapter 16: vs. 11
What translation is that from? In 10 or so different main translations there is no reference to raising fists at God in that verse. Scroll down. <!-- m -->http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#vrsn/11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=16&v=11&t=KJV#vrsn/11)<!-- m -->
I am not sure if I did it right since I am not bible friendly <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> . I copied the interpretation from a blog. Anyway, here the text talking about raising their fist because they were angry:
"They blasphemed the God of heaven… Again, those on earth respond in blaspheming God. The righteousness of God’s wrath demonstrated by its recipients, for the second time humanity shakes their fist toward heaven, and blasphemes God’s name"
<!-- m -->http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/re ... elation16/ (http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/revelation/revelation16/)<!-- m -->
[font=cursive:1xipw8c7][sub:1xipw8c7]This is from the translation that Michael and the family (kids and Katherine and LaToya)use... It's the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures :
10 And the fifth one poured out his bowl upon the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues for [their] pain, 11 but they blasphemed the God of heaven for their pains and for their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works.
This translation, that I use also, does not use those words either. I'm assuming, therefore, that Michael's fist, is a sort of conquering thing. I presume we will all just be guessing <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
[/sub:1xipw8c7][/font:1xipw8c7]
-
@fordtocarr
I almost needed a magnifying glass to read that. I know you're experimenting but that was tiny font. Not good for my aged eyeballs lolol/
-
peacock, I liked your post so much that I want to comment on it, even though risking to go off-topic but it needs more attention. (sorry for going off-topic TS but I think what peacock just brilliantly explained is how NONE of us should judge ANY of the Jacksons, something I have been trying to say for two years, but what has fallen on deaf ears most of the time).
In my humble opinion, I strongly disagree with anyone putting out in the Universe that Michael stated as Dave-Dave that he wanted to free himself from his father’s name and legacy. Do we not know how that sounds? Cheap, first of all. If that be the case, he should drop the name JACKSON. When he got 18, he should have dropped it like a hot tamale.
He is proud of his name and his father. Period! He is proud of his MOTHERLAND – and his African brothers and sisters. Word! He is proud of his children, his immediate family and his extended family. Prince and Blanket have the middle name Joseph. Some speculate that Omer’s real name for US purposes back when MJ brought him over at the age eight is Michael Joe Winters. It’s on Google. So much for hating his father and his father’s name –eh?
The main thing I see happening with this hoax from the beginning is THE JACKSON FAMILY DYNASTY AND JACKSON FAMILY UNITY. Michael is not stupid. He has called his father a managerial genius. He has stated publically that he is very much like his father in a lot of ways. As he has stated in Geraldo interview the values he learned from his father, the influences his father had on him and his siblings – and how his father is the one who taught them to believe in their ideals and to stand by their beliefs. And no matter what – no STAR is ever too far to reach – and that you never give up. NOW!
This hoax is a film. ARG/documentary and epose all wrapped up in one. Michael’s father is partly responsible for MJ having such dreams and aspirations as it pertains to pulling off this hoax. What did MJ have to forgive his father for? Joe Jackson is the father. Plus, he is helping his SON to pull it off - proper.
MJ was mind-controlled and there is video evidence of at least one of the time periods when this occurred. I think there were three. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that his controllers would keep him from his family. On Bennie’s blog – some great points were made pointing to this very fact. What some don’t seem to get is that in exposing this aspect of what happened to him, MJ WILL PROVE BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT ALTHOUGH THE CONTROLLERS TRIED TO KEEP HIM FROM LOVING AND TRUSTING HIS FAMILY. GUESS WHAT? THEY LOST.
It’s a VICTORY and TRIUMPH that the Jacksons HAVE a Family Dynasty. It’s 2300 Hundred Jackson Street. It’s a TAKEOVER by the Jacksons. Michael is a Jackson. He is proud to be one – and he is proving with this hoax how they all RULE. They all have merit. Michael is not BETTER than any of his family members. Maybe to some narrow-minded and hard hearted people on this board is he better, but he is not! He has sinned just like they all have. Just like we all have. No one is perfect.
MJ has stated that his family members are his best friends. Where is the disconnect with some on this issue? They are all in on this together. They all have a lot of nerve. They can all perform – and they are proving it now as we speak. They can all act – as we all can act out of ourselves if we so choose. They feel that it is a calling for them all to participate in this hoax/film – because they believe that God has called them to do it – with Michael at the helm.
They understand what he’s been through, who controlled him at times and so on. They know that he is a Gift from God. They’ve always known it. And for some to keep trying to disconnect MJ from his family, it’s not going to work. He needs his family – period. He needed them to pull off this hoax. Without them, why would there be a need for a Memorial? If MJ had only a brother left, would they have thought to carry out something like this? The Jacksons - Variety Show was a huge success - and it wasn't just because of Michael. They were all great.
Without Papa Joe securing the deal for his children and co-producing it, MJ or the others might have faded from the scene. Who knows how it would have turned out, but the odds, in my opinion, are that MJ wouldn't have blown up. He might not have met Quincy when he did when they talked about doing music together, and so on - as it wouldn't have been DESTINY/destined (Another Jackson's tour name) for such a meeting. As it was, it did happen and the rest is HISTORY/THEIRSTORY. Not so without Papa Joe. Who would have been the pall bearers? THE JACKSONS ARE COMING. Unity and Higher Consciousness is coming and is here for the Jacksons. They are for the most part AWAKE AND AWARE - and have always seemed to be alert. I think the men have been aware for a long time.
This TAKEOVER is not just about MJ. There is no question that his name and music is the one generating money and continued fame, but he doesn’t care about money. He knows that paper money is all an illusion. It’s about Gold as it pertains to wealth – and he has abundance over in Gabon, Africa for the taking if he so chooses, because it is a Gold Mining village. Gold all around. I don’t think that impresses MJ as much as love and unity does still. He knows that money and gold can’t buy happiness. Happiness comes from love and family and unity, and lastly HOPE.
Again, you’d be so very wrong to insinuate that MJ wants to free himself from his legacy. What fallacy. He is boldly performing this hoax with the help of all he Jacksons and Mama Kate’s relatives from her side. If nothing else, he is proving that he indeed loves his LEGACY enormously – as it and his father is the only one he has. This is why in the hotel room in Las Vegas, he repeated asked his father “What do I do”, as the arrest warrant was issued. If not for his father, he made have indeed up in the big house. He knows this. Again, he is not stupid. He knows that God wants him to HONOR HIS PARENTS. He is taking care of them as he should. Not only should he because he knows that it pleases God, he does it because he is A LOVER. He knows how to LOVE. He has a heart – and it is giving.
MJ knows that his LEGACY and the family name Jackson is where it is at. They all are paying back with Revenge. Who cares who likes this one or not. They know us not. We’re like specs of grain to them. They understand their reality very much – and they can step outside of the illusion whilst at the same time – they have shifted many folk’s realities by pulling off this hoax. THE KING OF POP is dead. The King of many hearts and of an African Village – still reigns supreme with the help and protection of the Ultimate Supreme King.
If no other dot needs to be connected, it’s this one right here. THE JACKSONS ARE COMING AND HAVE ARRIVED. GAME OVER. A TOAST. And like Jackie said in the Jackson Family Dynasty series, “You know how we do when we are UNDER PRESSURE.
I will just be honest, I don't like Joe. Never did and he probably wouldn't like me either. I have no clue what happened to those kids when they were little, I wasn't there. If I go by what Michael told us himself, and if I see through that some more, knowing from experience (not my own thank God) that there is always way more under the surface, then I get a nasty feeling about him, but as long as it's that far away from me, as long as I haven't spoken to either Joe or one of his children, I do not know the real story and I will not touch that subject in any way. It's up to Michael and his siblings to judge their father, never up to anyone of us. I remember even posting a long post on MJKIT defending Joe when he was slandered. You might not like him, like myself, but that does not give you the right to judge him. We haven't been there, we never were in his shoes. I personally don't like him because I have heard him talk about gay people one time in a video and I will not even go in further detail, but I wanted to slap him in the face and educate him on how we should ALL treat each other.
I have a brother who is gay and I love him dearly for who he is: a great person with a great boyfriend, good job, nice house, great friends and life in order. He sings like a cat with its tail stuck and he dances like a wooden stick, but that doesn't make him any less than any other. Who is Joseph Walter Jackson to judge him? His toiletpaper might have more layers, but he still has to wipe his own ass. IMO, after saying things like that he should never ever complain again about people judging him (although like I mentioned before, not on here). We are all equal, black or white, rich or poor, gay, bi or straight, period! No white man is better than a black man, and no black man is better than a white man. We are equal and if Joe Jackson thinks differently, he probably never listened to a word his son said.
That said, I have two very good friends who were abused by their father, physically, mentally and sexually. BOTH of them forgave their father and are back in contact again. It's not the relationship that I have with my father since I have the best father in the world, but there IS a relationship and there is love, even though fragile. Because I have seen it that close to me, I know that Michael most likely forgave his father. Is the bond with his father as close as it is with his mother, who he clearly adores? No. I dare to say that with certainty, but that doesn't mean there is no love, it's his father. Joe is in on the hoax, that's clear. That means Joe is helping Michael just like the other family members and that means Joe should get some respect, whether you like him or not. Whatever is going on behind the scenes, if anything, is none of our business. Period. Michael IS proud of his family and legacy, and he should be. I have no reason to think he is not, but he closed a door and another one is standing wide open. The King of Pop is dead, as we know him. That doesn't mean he's not proud of what he has already achieved and I doubt it means he's retiring.
As for his siblings, I don't think people realize what they ALL have been through and what a great deal of strength and charachter it takes to stay on the right path and become the great people they are now. They are labelled as weird, I mean wtf? I know weirder families than the Jacksons. They are all intelligent, hard working people who never judge another, always show respect and have the greatest manners. The Jackson 5 was not just Michael. He might have been sent into orbit, but there were 5 of them, and later on 6 who worked equally hard to follow their dreams. Janet is a super star. Maybe not as big as her brother, but if you leave Michael out of it, she is f*&king HUGE and for a long time already. LaToya went through a lot, and still she is such a sweet person. I have seen her being pranked by Ushi/Wendy van Dijk, and she stayed so nice. That showed what a truly sweet person she is. And Katherine must be one of the strongest women on earth. Give them ALL the respect they deserve. I can't believe how some of the 'true fans' can adore Michael so much, claiming to understand his message, kiss his ass wherever they can, yet slander his family (including his mother) like that in public. SHAME on them.
In short: I agree with you peacock, it's an ARG, it's an awakening, it's a Jacksons takeover, it's a brilliant movie, it's a sting, it's a vendetta, it is revenge, it's Michael's life work which he never could have done all by himself. It's all of it and that is why it intrigues us that much (because I think I can speak for everyone on that).
I liked your take Souza, but I disagree that what MJ will do eventually will be some kind of Spiritual Awakening to free the world. He has already stated that he can't do it by himself. I think what he wants us to do is to AWAKE to a higher level of Consciousness together. That possibly would have the same affect you are purporting - no question. Because the critical mass has already been reached. The thing is, supposedly by 12-21-12 - all life forms's DNA will be upgraded. What scientists call "junk DNA" is really DNA unactivated. When it is activiated, "llok out", for then "Heal the World" will beome our Reality and we will ceast living a life of Duality. That linear line will be replcaed by US living in the NOW with God and the Universe. MJ more or less stated it in his 1992 Ebony interview from Africa. He knows what's up, and many believe he is already there. Awakened by God in all His glory. Again, this is my take.
I also enjoyed reading several authors here lately on this theard, and especially from Bec, Good going.
Whatever HIS goal is, I feel that this will be the spiritual awakening we need so dearly. I totally get what you mean, and that is what I mean as well, yet I might not have explained it clearly enough, but my gut tells me that this is the final push people need to wake the hell up. I know he can't do it by himself, but he can start it. People are already waking up, I see and hear it all around me. Whatever he is planning to do, his comeback will cause a big bam and will shake the earth even more than his so called death. It's time for a shift and this might just be what the world needs. Michael can't heal the world alone, but united we can. We already had our push, and we can pass it on as much as we can, but we are not reaching enough people at once, also because we are labelled as lunatics and are ignored as much as possible. The moment he comes back, there is no way in hell they can ignore us anymore. We need someone who gives that tiny snowball a push.
(http://people-equation.com/wp-content/uploads/snowball_iStock_000007725565XSmall.jpg)
-
@ Souza - Because I have seen it that close to me, I know that Michael most likely forgave his father.
No disrespect intended but having the personal experience along with 4 other siblings, it is not always the case that people "forgive and forget". That doesn't always happen that I'm sure you know. Although I could never do it on the grand scale that MJ has done; sometimes that only thing a person can do to cope with what has been done to them is to show love and kindness to others so the pattern doesn't continue. It's wonderful that MJ made amends with his father over the years, but it took a lot of hard work, but not everyone can do that.
Just something I'm throwing out there, and of course it's just my opinion.
-
@ Souza - Because I have seen it that close to me, I know that Michael most likely forgave his father.
No disrespect intended but having the personal experience along with 4 other siblings, it is not always the case that people "forgive and forget". That doesn't always happen that I'm sure you know. Although I could never do it on the grand scale that MJ has done; sometimes that only thing a person can do to cope with what has been done to them is to show love and kindness to others so the pattern doesn't continue. It's wonderful that MJ made amends with his father over the years, but it took a lot of hard work, but not everyone can do that.
Just something I'm throwing out there, and of course it's just my opinion.
That is why I said 'most likely', hinting to the fact that it's not always the case.
-
@ Souza - Because I have seen it that close to me, I know that Michael most likely forgave his father.
No disrespect intended but having the personal experience along with 4 other siblings, it is not always the case that people "forgive and forget". That doesn't always happen that I'm sure you know. Although I could never do it on the grand scale that MJ has done; sometimes that only thing a person can do to cope with what has been done to them is to show love and kindness to others so the pattern doesn't continue. It's wonderful that MJ made amends with his father over the years, but it took a lot of hard work, but not everyone can do that.
Just something I'm throwing out there, and of course it's just my opinion.
That is why I said 'most likely', hinting to the fact that it's not always the case.
I know and I saw that, I was just reiterating. Not needed I know.
-
"I said in one of my last posts:
We have several layers in this journey, several repetitive themes.
- family (holistic doctor, child support etc.)
- professional ethics (medical, pharmacy, hospital, lawyers, court, police, etc.)
- weapons, war and all related (stun gun, Lopez, army etc.)
- fire (burning, Pepsi, Arnie, jacket, money, etc.)
- cardiac (heart, blood, love, emotions, etc.)
- time (delays, numbers, etc.)
- illusion (reality vs. perception etc., open eyes, show = make see, autopsy = see for yourself, etc.)
- belief (persuadation, religion, God, judgements, etc.)
- change (individual, regional, global etc.)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727)
Adding: cleaning the house / name.
Plus enjoying life."
"The hoax is not a hoax since 2009. This is all about the time before June 25.
This disappearance is encouraging us to look into what happened before to see and understand truth.
This is an invitation into Michael's life as much as he invited us into the various "makings of" songs and videos after June 25. This is actually letting us come close.
It was a very brave decision to put a final fullstop to many things that had made Michael's life unbearable.
June 25, 2009 put an end to the hoax that had started in the 80s if not earlier.
That's why the ambulance picture, the memorial and the funeral set was all pointing to Michael from that era because that Michael (marketed brand image) was "laid to grave".
Back to the basics of life - back to Michael Joe, back to family, values, back to the truth.
This includes the themes above and spirituality and love.
Giving away the not needed (like for Julian's auctions) frees the spirit and makes life easy and new."[/i][/color]
This 2 parts of your post made me go WOW,and blow my mind away,thank you GRACE !!!!!!!!
I agree with you in everything you said.This hoax is about the PAST and about knowing the past,because without the THE PAST, there is No PRESENT and No FUTURE.Remember this: "IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR PAST,YOU'R CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT"
How can we understand something from this giant mountain of contradictions that is this hoax today,if we don't know what caused this???????
We have to dig deep,to disect hard the Hoax,the PAST to be more exact,and it's not about a murder for sure.This GIANT HOAX is composed from many things like,DRAMA,ROMANCE,ADVENTURE,ACTION,COMEDY and HORROR,you know just like in real life.We as individuals can absorb all this and learn something from it.It's up to us if we want to LEARN what Michael is trying to teach us.It's about LIFE,a beautiful life that we can have together as human beings,we just have to let go to THE FEAR and see THE SIGN in front of us.The only thing that can make us weak is THE FEAR. How many of us are brave enough to let go our MASK,that we wear every single day and do what we want in our own way????????? Few of us for sure.We are afraid to let go THE MASK,becasue of the FEAR to beeing JUDGED.Remember how many times Michael was JUDGED because of his decisions?????????? It's very hard to be MR.MICHAEL JACKSON indeed .I have to confess I cried very hard watching the Memorial when Marlon was speaking about Michael beeing judged and ridiculed.To be honest and genuine this days is very hard,you need alot of COURAGE to do it,for sure.
COURAGE-Dancing the dream
It's curious what takes courage and what doesn't. When I step out on stage in front of thousands of people, I don't feel that I'm being brave. It can take much more courage to express true feelings to one person. When I think of courage, I think of the Cowardly Lion in The Wizard of Oz. He was always running away from danger. He often cried and shook with fear. But he was also sharing his real feelings with those he loved, even though he didn't always like those feelings.
That takes real courage, the courage to be intimate. Expressing your feelings is not the same as falling apart in front of someone else -- it's being accepting and true to your heart, whatever it may say. When you have the courage to be intimate, you know who you are, and you're willing to let others see that. It's scary, because you feel so vulnerable, so open to rejection. But without self-acceptance, the other kind of courage, the kind heroes show in movies, seems hollow. In spite of the risks, the courage to be honest and intimate opens the way to self-discovery. It offers what we all want, the promise of love. -MICHAEL JACKSON
I want to share something with all of you,a interwiev I found recently and it's form 1999 .Is the first time I heard this one and it's the first time I heard MICHAEL CRY for real because of his LOVE FOR CHILDREN.As I told before to be honest and sincere,it takes alot of COURAGE. <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: -->
Michael Jackson - Daily Mirror Interview [Rare] (1999)
[BBvideo 425,350:bwg01al7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtH2KcSDlc4[/BBvideo:bwg01al7]
Now talking about the FEAR of ILLUMINATI,lol,how can you be afraid of something you don't even know .You are afraid of who or what exactly,??????Why we always have to blame someone else??? I'm just thinking about what Michael said in This is it: "THEY WHO?? I's start with us!!!!!"
Everyone of us,rich or poor have the duty to make a change,to try to be giving and loving with people,just like Michael did.Let go THE FEAR and LIVE the life for God's sake!!!!.
LOVE
ahh he just said the[highlight=#bf80ff:bwg01al7]doctor woke him up[/highlight:bwg01al7]to tell him about diana . any thoughts?
-
"I said in one of my last posts:
We have several layers in this journey, several repetitive themes.
- family (holistic doctor, child support etc.)
- professional ethics (medical, pharmacy, hospital, lawyers, court, police, etc.)
- weapons, war and all related (stun gun, Lopez, army etc.)
- fire (burning, Pepsi, Arnie, jacket, money, etc.)
- cardiac (heart, blood, love, emotions, etc.)
- time (delays, numbers, etc.)
- illusion (reality vs. perception etc., open eyes, show = make see, autopsy = see for yourself, etc.)
- belief (persuadation, religion, God, judgements, etc.)
- change (individual, regional, global etc.)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=19727)
Adding: cleaning the house / name.
Plus enjoying life."
"The hoax is not a hoax since 2009. This is all about the time before June 25.
This disappearance is encouraging us to look into what happened before to see and understand truth.
This is an invitation into Michael's life as much as he invited us into the various "makings of" songs and videos after June 25. This is actually letting us come close.
It was a very brave decision to put a final fullstop to many things that had made Michael's life unbearable.
June 25, 2009 put an end to the hoax that had started in the 80s if not earlier.
That's why the ambulance picture, the memorial and the funeral set was all pointing to Michael from that era because that Michael (marketed brand image) was "laid to grave".
Back to the basics of life - back to Michael Joe, back to family, values, back to the truth.
This includes the themes above and spirituality and love.
Giving away the not needed (like for Julian's auctions) frees the spirit and makes life easy and new."[/i][/color]
This 2 parts of your post made me go WOW,and blow my mind away,thank you GRACE !!!!!!!!
I agree with you in everything you said.This hoax is about the PAST and about knowing the past,because without the THE PAST, there is No PRESENT and No FUTURE.Remember this: "IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR PAST,YOU'R CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT"
How can we understand something from this giant mountain of contradictions that is this hoax today,if we don't know what caused this???????
We have to dig deep,to disect hard the Hoax,the PAST to be more exact,and it's not about a murder for sure.This GIANT HOAX is composed from many things like,DRAMA,ROMANCE,ADVENTURE,ACTION,COMEDY and HORROR,you know just like in real life.We as individuals can absorb all this and learn something from it.It's up to us if we want to LEARN what Michael is trying to teach us.It's about LIFE,a beautiful life that we can have together as human beings,we just have to let go to THE FEAR and see THE SIGN in front of us.The only thing that can make us weak is THE FEAR. How many of us are brave enough to let go our MASK,that we wear every single day and do what we want in our own way????????? Few of us for sure.We are afraid to let go THE MASK,becasue of the FEAR to beeing JUDGED.Remember how many times Michael was JUDGED because of his decisions?????????? It's very hard to be MR.MICHAEL JACKSON indeed .I have to confess I cried very hard watching the Memorial when Marlon was speaking about Michael beeing judged and ridiculed.To be honest and genuine this days is very hard,you need alot of COURAGE to do it,for sure.
COURAGE-Dancing the dream
It's curious what takes courage and what doesn't. When I step out on stage in front of thousands of people, I don't feel that I'm being brave. It can take much more courage to express true feelings to one person. When I think of courage, I think of the Cowardly Lion in The Wizard of Oz. He was always running away from danger. He often cried and shook with fear. But he was also sharing his real feelings with those he loved, even though he didn't always like those feelings.
That takes real courage, the courage to be intimate. Expressing your feelings is not the same as falling apart in front of someone else -- it's being accepting and true to your heart, whatever it may say. When you have the courage to be intimate, you know who you are, and you're willing to let others see that. It's scary, because you feel so vulnerable, so open to rejection. But without self-acceptance, the other kind of courage, the kind heroes show in movies, seems hollow. In spite of the risks, the courage to be honest and intimate opens the way to self-discovery. It offers what we all want, the promise of love. -MICHAEL JACKSON
I want to share something with all of you,a interwiev I found recently and it's form 1999 .Is the first time I heard this one and it's the first time I heard MICHAEL CRY for real because of his LOVE FOR CHILDREN.As I told before to be honest and sincere,it takes alot of COURAGE. <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: -->
Michael Jackson - Daily Mirror Interview [Rare] (1999)
[BBvideo 425,350:15w6az4o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtH2KcSDlc4[/BBvideo:15w6az4o]
Now talking about the FEAR of ILLUMINATI,lol,how can you be afraid of something you don't even know .You are afraid of who or what exactly,??????Why we always have to blame someone else??? I'm just thinking about what Michael said in This is it: "THEY WHO?? I's start with us!!!!!"
Everyone of us,rich or poor have the duty to make a change,to try to be giving and loving with people,just like Michael did.Let go THE FEAR and LIVE the life for God's sake!!!!.
LOVE
ahh he just said the[highlight=#bf80ff:15w6az4o]doctor woke him up[/highlight:15w6az4o]to tell him about diana . any thoughts?
-
I caught that also. I wonder what for? Unless he was using something to sleep then too? :? :cry:
-
I caught that also. I wonder what for? Unless he was using something to sleep then too? :? :cry:
ahuh . wasn't there something about the one doctor supposedly telling someone he took him down at night and brought him back up in the morning? remember someone approached this dude fairly soon after the 25th and he acted kind of suspicious// said this wasn't the proper time that michael wasn't even buried yet or something , said it was inapproriate. suspicious//
-
I like Joe. Now even more than before.
-
If Michael were "dead" there would be no Liberian Girl theme to the memorial/burial. No, there are clues, big FAT clues, that indicate to anyone who cares to notice that Michael IS simply "dead".
Also, if Michael was in fear for his life and safety, those kids never would have been revealed... not before 6/25 and not after either. They would be forever shrouded and their identity forever concealed because that would be the only safety they would ever know. You don't present your children to the world and parade them all over the public stage if you're worried about evil-doers wanting to harm you. That makes no sense.
So you don't believe MJ's life was in danger?..what about the 2005 Trial, do you think he wasn't in danger, that people just wanted to drag him down and when it didn't work, he gave up?
Then what would be his excuse if he makes a comeback if his life wasn't in danger?
I feel there was a point in time MJ's life might of been threatened, but I don't think this hoax was done because MJ's life was in danger?
-
Hi all,
TS said, “there is no limit on any particular category of discussion.” So here I go, and if any disagree with this post, guess what, that fine! I just want to say how impressed I am with the turn of this thread. I have seen within the last few pages of this thread, a thought shift from the negative to the positive for many, not all, yet many! From what my eyes have read, this level has not been as difficult for most, as TS thought it would be. I must say there has truly been a graduation! For I see a consensus among the masses. The thought processes have gone from imagination and intuition to recognition of the obvious! The thought processes have risen to the heights of distinguishing fact from opinion! I suspect that there can be found no greater proof that writing is an excellent means of thinking through a process, than what has been proven here! The answer to the question TS posed so long ago, “Do you think for yourself?” is with full credence “YES!”
The demonstration of critical thinking skills here is astounding! There has without a doubt been a paradigm shift, a change in basic assumptions. It is a known fact that when enough significant inconsistencies have mounted up against current assumptions, the old idea or assumption is discarded and eventually a new one is formed, which gain its own new followers, and an intellectual "battle" takes place between the followers of the new and the holdouts of the old. We have seen that battle here! It has also been said that when a new one replaces an old assumption, although through a complex social process, the new one is always better, and not just different! If this site is not a complex social process, I don’t know what is! And to know that Michael is alive and well, rather than dead and buried can’t get any better than that!
It has taken two years but perceptions have moved from murder to movie, the latter of which has been my view from the very beginning. A lot has been learned over the last two years. Those of you who are still here, have taken the ignored facts at face value, refused to accept the misconceptions, and given a proper explanation of what the situation must be in face of indirect knowledge of the situation. And the situation is that there was no murder. Yes TS, their hoax evidence is solid! I’m impressed!
And I am also delighted to see all of you who have come out in defense of the family, who are simply playing their acting role in this masterpiece of the mind! They have all come together in unity to help Michael succeed in his masterstroke. Even a blind man can see that!! In a world filled with fractured families, I would that all families could have a project, maybe not of this magnitude, but a project all the same, to bring them together on one accord!
“Yea, brother, let me have joy of thee in the Lord: refresh my bowels in the Lord.” (Philippians 1:20) “Bowels” translated from the Greek word “splagchnon” meaning the inward parts; the heart, affections, seat of the feelings. Know that you all have surely refreshed my spirit!
I leave you with the words of my most loved Micheal Jackson song!
[align=center:30l96cmo]
"Whatever Happens"
He gives another smile, tries to understand her side
To show that he cares
She's consumed with everything that's been goin' on
She says
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Everything will be alright, he assures her
But she doesn't hear a word that he says
Preoccupied, she's afraid
Afraid that what they're doing is not right
He doesn't know what to say, so he prays
Whatever, whatever, whatever
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't you let go of my hand
Don't let go of my hand
Don't let go of my hand
He's working day and night, thinks he'll make her happy
Forgetting all the dreams that he had
He doesn't realize it's not the end of the world
It doesn't have to be that bad
She tries to explain, "It's you that makes me happy,"
Whatever, whatever, whatever
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't you let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't you let go of my hand
Whatever happens, don't let go of my hand
[Carlos Santana:] Thank you, man!
[Michael Jackson:] Thank you, Carlos![/align:30l96cmo]
[align=center:30l96cmo]Michael, I'm holding onto your hand in spirit, and whatever happens I won't let go of your hand![/align:30l96cmo]
Blessing to you all!
OnTheWingsOfLove
-
Suspicious mind
ahh he just said thedoctor woke him upto tell him about diana . any thoughts?
He said the same thing on the Barabara Walters interview. If he said it twice like that, I think he clearly means for us to take note. He could have simply said, that he woke up, not mentioning the doctor doing the waking. It certainly is a key hoax element, because the basic theme of the death hoax is that Dr. Murray put him to sleep with the propofol and he never woke up. IMO he is setting the trap. It sounds so innocently said, and probably no one noticed at the time, and only post 6/25/09 does it hold meaning. It goes nicely with Morphine and Smooth Criminal!
And I believe MJ's been "innocently" dropping all kinds of clues over the years, like time-release capsuls. Rascal! mj_bad/
-
Gema
In the New Testament book of Revelations, it says:
“They continued to ‘raise their fists at God, refuse to repent and sores were all over their bodies’ ”
Revelations. Chapter 16: vs. 11
What translation is that from? In 10 or so different main translations there is no reference to raising fists at God in that verse. Scroll down. <!-- m -->http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#vrsn/11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=16&v=11&t=KJV#vrsn/11)<!-- m -->
I am not sure if I did it right since I am not bible friendly <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> . I copied the interpretation from a blog. Anyway, here the text talking about raising their fist because they were angry:
"They blasphemed the God of heaven… Again, those on earth respond in blaspheming God. The righteousness of God’s wrath demonstrated by its recipients, for the second time humanity shakes their fist toward heaven, and blasphemes God’s name"
<!-- m -->http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/re ... elation16/ (http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/revelation/revelation16/)<!-- m -->
[font=cursive:10rfjauf][sub:10rfjauf]This is from the translation that Michael and the family (kids and Katherine and LaToya)use... It's the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures :
10 And the fifth one poured out his bowl upon the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues for [their] pain, 11 but they blasphemed the God of heaven for their pains and for their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works.
This translation, that I use also, does not use those words either. I'm assuming, therefore, that Michael's fist, is a sort of conquering thing. I presume we will all just be guessing <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
[/sub:10rfjauf][/font:10rfjauf]
[offtopic:10rfjauf]I copy and paste the whole number 11 here <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I am not sure if i read as it should but is written there
11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12
2. The darkness could allow any in hiding in the kingdom of the Antichrist to escape the coming destruction of “New Babylon” under the cover of darkness. (Jer . 51:6)
6 Flee from the midst of Babylon, And every one save his life! Do not be cut off in her iniquity, For this is the time of the Lord's vengeance; He shall recompense her.
7 Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord's hand, That made all the earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; Therefore the nations are deranged. Jeremiah 51:6-7
3. The people of this kingdom will not repent or seek forgiveness while they are still alive and on the earth. This judgment demonstrates the hardness of man’s heart.
They gnawed their tongues…The darkness along with oozing sores from the first bowl, lack of water, lack of food and scorching heat are taking their toll. The response of man is one of war not repentance. In agony, humanity gnaws at their tongues but they refuse to repent cry out for mercy.
[highlight=#ff80ff:10rfjauf]They blasphemed the God of heaven… Again, those on earth respond in blaspheming God. The righteousness of God’s wrath demonstrated by its recipients, for the second time humanity shakes their fist toward heaven, and blasphemes God’s name.[/highlight:10rfjauf]
Did not repent….The second time this point is made. This point is repeated twice for emphasis, so the reader understands that even if humanity could repent, they would not.[/offtopic:10rfjauf]
-
[glow=red:2wqy8sgm]"onthewingsoflove"
The demonstration of critical thinking skills here is astounding! There has without a doubt been a paradigm shift, a change in basic assumptions. It is a known fact that when enough significant inconsistencies have mounted up against current assumptions, the old idea or assumption is discarded and eventually a new one is formed, which gain its own new followers, and an intellectual "battle" takes place between the followers of the new and the holdouts of the old. We have seen that battle here! It has also been said that when a new one replaces an old assumption, although through a complex social process, the new one is always better, and not just different! If this site is not a complex social process, I don’t know what is![/glow:2wqy8sgm]
We think alike on this.
[glow=red:2wqy8sgm]I leave you with the words of my most loved Micheal Jackson song!
[align=center]
"Whatever Happens"[/glow:2wqy8sgm]
Funny, I woke up with that tune in my head today :lol:
-
I just want to add in this thread that after 2 years, I feel we still go in circles and, what I have changed in my theories and thoughts have been the "real" O2 Michael vs "double" O2 michael. The rest stay the same.
-
Suspicious mind
ahh he just said thedoctor woke him upto tell him about diana . any thoughts?
He said the same thing on the Barabara Walters interview. If he said it twice like that, I think he clearly means for us to take note. He could have simply said, that he woke up, not mentioning the doctor doing the waking. It certainly is a key hoax element, because the basic theme of the death hoax is that Dr. Murray put him to sleep with the propofol and he never woke up. IMO he is setting the trap. It sounds so innocently said, and probably no one noticed at the time, and only post 6/25/09 does it hold meaning. It goes nicely with Morphine and Smooth Criminal!
And I believe MJ's been "innocently" dropping all kinds of clues over the years, like time-release capsuls. Rascal! <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ -->
Hello Mjonmind!!!!![/size]
Thank you very much ,I do remember also when Michael told Barbara Walters about A DOCTOR WAKE HIM UP to tell him that Diana had died.Intresting ,hmmmmm <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> .
Here is the interview in which Michael told Barbara about him and Diana:
MICHAEL JACKSON - on Barbara Walters Interview Full 1997 HQ
[BBvideo 425,350:ps7jwsl1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-mXsCIoVyw[/BBvideo:ps7jwsl1]
Now what I remember is that when I first saw this intervew with Michael I said to myself,something is not right,Michael looks different and talks different.Let's be clear that I don't say this is not Michael,yes IT IS Michael.YES IT IS indeed.Of course he is,in fact we saw him in many places during 1997.He was the one in Munich ,remember the "BUG THING"??????????
HIStory Tour, Munich: The Bug
[BBvideo 425,350:ps7jwsl1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fng9N5OBg6s[/BBvideo:ps7jwsl1]
[b]Also remember when he was at princess Diana memorial service on 14 september in Los Angeles ,during History tour ??????? <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> You know It's a pitty I lost the video,but I have some intersting photos to show you:[/b]
[attachment=2:ps7jwsl1]<!-- ia2 -->IWLgW.jpg<!-- ia2 -->[/attachment:ps7jwsl1]
[attachment=1:ps7jwsl1]<!-- ia1 -->iFnW8.jpg<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:ps7jwsl1]
[attachment=0:ps7jwsl1]<!-- ia0 -->rtqO8.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:ps7jwsl1]
What all this have in common may I ask??????
The DAM necklace,that's what it is.Thank you Paris!!!!!
It's all for LOVE!!!!!
-
Hi all,
I wasn't planning on posting to this tread because it's a moot point to me. I really believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is alive and that he will return!!!
But as I was posting on another thread about a TV movie from 2010 "What Killed Michael Jackson?" I realized that what I was saying there could be put here as my reasons for not believing any murder theory. It seems that many statements made by individuals in that documentary movie simply confirmed my belief that this is all a hoax.
If any would be interested here is the post.
Re: "Michael Jackson History: The King of Pop 1958-2009"
Post by onthewingsoflove » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:12 pm
Hi all,
Sorry it has taken me this long to get back to you regarding the second part of this movie that I posted here. As I was watching more of the second movie I began to realize that I did see this movie on TV. The name of it is "What Killed Micheal Jackson?" It was made in 2010. The description of the movie is: "This hard-hitting documentary traces the last months of the singer's life, examines the circumstances that led to his untimely passing, and explores the controversy and unanswered questions about a death that many say could have been prevented."
You can see the movie for yourself, as it is on you tube in 7 parts! Here is the URL for the first part and then you can get to the other 6. <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKUesA50-E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKUesA50-E)<!-- m -->
After watching this movie again I am certainly convinced that Michael is alive. It might just be me, but it seems that some of the statements made by some of the individuals confirms this. For instance the MJ Impersonator Navi said that he had been a decoy for Michael and that he had been invited to do the visuals for the "This Is It" concert but it didn't occur. Yea, right he may not have done the "concert" but he did the film because there is a particular scene of him in it. From the first time I saw it I have always said that particular person in the film was not Michael because he appeared to big and stocky in my eyes to be Michael. I tried to rationalize it away and say maybe it was just the angle of the camera, which was shot up from the floor that made him look bigger. But as I look at my DVD of "This Is It" again, and with this statement by Navi, I really believe that it's Navi in that portion of the film.
Quincy Jones is in the movie with his comment of why he wasn't going to the funeral. He said he didn't want to go because he had buried 150 people in 2 years!!!! He wanted to remember him as he was. But he also said in the same clip that Michael was like a son to him. So I don't buy his reason for not going! Wouldn't you go to your son's funeral? Was he estranged from Michael or something? No he didn't go because he knows Michael is not dead!
Another statement that confirms for me that MJ is alive is what the narrator of the movie said at one point and I quote, "The saga surrounding his demise is far from over. His dramatic exit left a lot of conspiracy theories." The saga? Hmmmmm. His dramatic exit? <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> I don't think I would call someone's unexpected death a saga! That speaks volumes to me!
And of course the comment by both Mark Lester and Susan Etock (?) about the 99% that was written about Michael was untruth. She said "an ounce was truth and the rest was totally embellished." Yes it was Susan, for the hoax!
Then there are lots of statements about the conflicting reports as to the true state of Michael's health leading up to the concerts. One individual said that Michael's weight at that time was correct for his height and that he was in the best of condition. This is not only conflicting with what others are saying in this movie but it also conflicts with the first autopsy report! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
The most interesting statements to me are what Michael himself said outside the courthouse after the verdicts of the last trial about Santa Maria where Neverland is. He said, "I love Santa Maria, I love the people of Santa Maria. This is why I moved there. I will always love Santa Maria. This is where my children were born." And mind you this is said after the raids were carried out there. I really think the statement that He never wanted to live there again was in a moment filled with hurt and anger, and not from his heart. But now it plays well as part of this hoax because a lot of people, because of that statement, refuse to believe that Michael could be at Neverland! I keep remembering the shadowy figures that looked like Michael in some of the tapings that were done at Neverland after his death. <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// --> Someone has posted on this site some recent pictures of Neverland from the air and the place looks just gorgeous, which supports what I said in another post way back that I felt in my spirit that Neverland would rise from the ashes! It has definitely done that! It is obvious from the pictures that someone is living there now, and it could very well be Michael! I'm not ruling out anything!
Another statement in the movie is "Michael Jackson's life has been about selling things. In his life and in his death it will still be about show business!" And then they mention the "This Is It" film. Well helloooo, Michael is selling this hoax!
Now the final statement that confirms for me that Michael is alive is the very last thing said in the movie. Navi says, "In the world of MJ I have gone beyond expecting. I'll just wait to see what happens!" Along with the rest of us! <!-- slolol/ -->lolol/<!-- slolol/ --> Thank you Navi!
Go to YouTube and watch the movie and draw your own conclusions!
Blessings to you all!
OnTheWingsOfLove!
Hi onthewingsoflove
Thank you very much for this post,wow another documentary about The King of Pop.It seems to me that everibody who knew Michael were very busy in this 2 years to make shows and documentarys ,and none of them to try to found out why or who 'killed' him.It's funny you know,until now I think I saw about 30 or more shows and documentaires that friends and family had done.I will watch this production this night for sure,it's very intresting <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .It was enough for me to watch a trailer to make me want MORE.First here is a description of the documentary:
An ITN Archive production documenting the life and death of Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was a unique artist with record sales of over 750 million albums and the first man to launch videos on MTV with Beat It. In this official documentary from the archives of ITN, we gain a unique insight into the man who was both recluse and brilliant global showman. With archive footage showing the highs and lows of his career, his relationships with Elizabeth Taylor, Princess Di, Lisa Marie Presley and a host of of memories, this programme is a celebration of a superstar who shaped modern music for a generation.
This documentary of Michael Jackson's life features:
The Jackson Five child star who charmed the world, constantly living under pressure from his demanding father.
The Thriller Years when he could do no wrong. How he created a 60 million selling album that is still the biggest seller of all time.
How Jacko Went Ex centric. How genius talent gave way to eccentricity that saw him befriending Bubbles his chimp, sleeping in an oxygen tent, changing his appearance and creating a Neverland hideaway.
The Final Curtain - culminating in what is sure to be an emotional funeral with exclusive footage from ITN and Fox America of the funeral. How did it all end so abruptly just as he was set to stage the come back of all time in front of 750,000 UK fans?
"The whole extraordinary story brought together...essential viewing for all Jacko fans."
With contributions from Janet Jackson, Jermaine Jackson, Quincy Jones, Paul Gambaccini, Diana Ross and Martha Reeves, History: The King of Pop has a running time of over 80 minutes, and is a unique documentary of a superstar who brought his special blend of magic and mystery to fans all over the world.
Here we go again with is name: Is Joe os Joseph,lol <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
Michael Jackson - History - By The King of Pop 1958 - 2009 WS
[BBvideo 425,350:3qsbgo4h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnJwVzbj5Ow[/BBvideo:3qsbgo4h]
[LOVE
-
Suspicious mind
ahh he just said thedoctor woke him upto tell him about diana . any thoughts?
He said the same thing on the Barabara Walters interview. If he said it twice like that, I think he clearly means for us to take note. He could have simply said, that he woke up, not mentioning the doctor doing the waking. It certainly is a key hoax element, because the basic theme of the death hoax is that Dr. Murray put him to sleep with the propofol and he never woke up. IMO he is setting the trap. It sounds so innocently said, and probably no one noticed at the time, and only post 6/25/09 does it hold meaning. It goes nicely with Morphine and Smooth Criminal!
And I believe MJ's been "innocently" dropping all kinds of clues over the years, like time-release capsuls. Rascal! <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ -->
Hello Mjonmind!!!!![/size]
Thank you very much ,I do remember also when Michael told Barbara Walters about A DOCTOR WAKE HIM UP to tell him that Diana had died.Intresting ,hmmmmm <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> .
Here is the interview in which Michael told Barbara about him and Diana:
MICHAEL JACKSON - on Barbara Walters Interview Full 1997 HQ
[BBvideo 425,350:26qvlsya]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-mXsCIoVyw[/BBvideo:26qvlsya]
Now what I remember is that when I first saw this intervew with Michael I said to myself,something is not right,Michael looks different and talks different.Let's be clear that I don't say this is not Michael,yes IT IS Michael.YES IT IS indeed.Of course he is,in fact we saw him in many places during 1997.He was the one in Munich ,remember the "BUG THING"??????????
HIStory Tour, Munich: The Bug
[BBvideo 425,350:26qvlsya]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fng9N5OBg6s[/BBvideo:26qvlsya]
[b]Also remember when he was at princess Diana memorial service on 14 september in Los Angeles ,during History tour ??????? <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> You know It's a pitty I lost the video,but I have some intersting photos to show you:[/b]
[attachment=2:26qvlsya]<!-- ia2 -->IWLgW.jpg<!-- ia2 -->[/attachment:26qvlsya]
[attachment=1:26qvlsya]<!-- ia1 -->iFnW8.jpg<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:26qvlsya]
[attachment=0:26qvlsya]<!-- ia0 -->rtqO8.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:26qvlsya]
What all this have in common may I ask??????
The DAM necklace,that's what it is.Thank you Paris!!!!!
It's all for LOVE!!!!!
there is a slight difference in the way he delivered the statement. with barbara as if a doctor was there. with the other as the doctor waking him. i also notice though that he is much more diliberate and careful as to how how expresses himself with barbara verses how he is with the other person. in the other instance it is much more hate to use the word but almost manic. rambleing . he also mentions in conjuction with the news of diana's death a connection to feelings of when kennedy was killed . he would have been around 5 at the time . i was 6 myself and my father had died the year before i don' t have much recollection of that time. now this doesn't mean that those around him knowing his sensitivities might not have thought it would be good to have a doctor there for him .though in mho it would not be a wise thing to medicate someone under these situations but i am sure it is sometimes done. when my father died family had someone waiting at the hospital to administer something to my mother. it was followed by years of turmoil of the needing a nerve pill thing. when i lost my own son later i was told by my doctor that someone in my family had ask them for something to be given to me . he told me that is the worst thing that could have happened. so anyway as far as michael, i still don't see how if something happened after such a short period of doing this how he went through a whole tour before doing the same ( as was the rumor i guess).
-
TS must be very busy discrediting their theories rr/ typing/
TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
by TS » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:11 am
TIAI Update #4d: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
by TS » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:44 am
TIAI Update #4a: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
by TS » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:59 am
Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET
by TS » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:59 am
-
@applehead250609
Are these pictures from Diana's funeral? I've not seen them before. Where the heck have I been? The top photo especially looks like Mike from Staples rehearsal. From 1999 to 2009 he certainly hasn't changed as much as some think michael-jackson/ And I can't see the necklace. I've tried zooming but it gets blurry. Even with an HD computer monitor :(
-
Oh boy, I knew something would happen while my internet service was down! Good to have you back TS, though I'm sure you never actually left, just kept an eye on things. This is a great level, the murder theory. The whole "did they make it look like a hoax" aspect reminds me of a plot from Columbo (RIP Peter Falk).
It does mean that the memorial with all its Liberian Girl images, the "pains" line, the "I'm alive and I'm here forever" etc, was devised to encourage the notion of a hoax, and as the family and AEG planned and staged the memorial they would have to be all in on it, or at least have someone influencing their decisions as to which pictures to use. So there could theoretically be someone "on the inside" close to the family/AEG but actually working for the Illuminati, helping to create the illusion of a hoax. But then, this same person or persons unknown would also have to have influenced everything the family did and said ever since the "death". They wouldn't be aware that they were contradicting themselves and each other? Come on. They have repeatedly said that they suspect someone was out to kill MJ and they know who but can't say at the present time. We get the all-too-familiar "all will become clear". Now if someone had murdered my brother, I knew who it was, and they had gotten away with it (assuming Murray's trial collapses) I'd be shouting their name from the rooftops, regardless of my own personal safety. What about Dave Dave?!
The Jacksons have already stated their belief that he was in danger and that they know who from, therefore this person or group is aware they are known to them. An organisation like the Illuminati for example might seem all-powerful to many but when you're dealing with a large, world-famous family like the Jacksons, you can't just quietly dispose of any pesky whistle-blowers without fuss. Everyone would know. The Jacksons themselves don't seem to be too worried for their safety or the safety of the children, they seem to be going about their business pretty much as normal. What does this tell us? That they are either feeling confident that nobody would dare try and harm any of them with the world watching, or that they don't have anything to worry about because they haven't blown the whistle on anyone at all, they have no-one to blow the whistle on because there was no murder. It does also beg the question again of whether there is a sting operation underway to snare Hollywood Dr Feelgoods. By continually implying MJ was in danger from someone who wanted him dead for whatever reason, the real target may be lulled into a false sense of security. Whatever the outcome of this level, I just can't see how the murder theory holds up. EVERYONE would have to be in on it. It makes more sense to me that the shadowy figure influencing AEG and the Jacksons was in fact MJ himself. If I'm wrong then I'll hold my hands up but instinct and common sense haven't failed me yet.
-
It makes more sense to me that the shadowy figure influencing AEG and the Jacksons was in fact MJ himself. If I'm wrong then I'll hold my hands up but instinct and common sense haven't failed me yet.
That's a good point I forgot. This shadowy figure seems to be able to influence not only AEG and the family, but also the estate and Sony as well, considering all the hoax clues that showed up in (TII and) the Michael album, from the cover to the lyrics to the insert.
So I asked myself, self, who would be able to influence all these entities: AEG, Kenny Ortega, the entire family, the MJ estate, and Sony? The simple obvious easy answer is Michael Jackson himself.
The 333 FBI files is still a wild card.
-
Very good post, trustno1. The family has always been the main reason why I cannot rule out the hoax. I've gone back and forth and I always try to keep the idea that MJ could've died but it still doesn't make any sense to me.
If he did die then...
1. Why was there only ONE picture of him dead? Sounds morbid but this picture would be a paparazzi's dream. And the person who happened to be there and taken the big money shot was someone that MJ was okay with it. I won't even say they were friends because I don't know that but they had to be okay with each other to take photos together.
2. Why did TMZ post that he died before the official time? Did someone tell the tabloid that he died awhile ago like LaToya implied recently in an interview? And why would that person call TMZ and say that? Wouldn't that set themselves up if they indeed murdered him?
3. Why did the 911 dispatcher hang up the phone once the person on the phone said they was a doctor there? Wouldn't that dispatcher want to speak with the doctor to find out what's going on?
4. Why did Michael looked so much younger in the ambulance photo?
5. How could Janet and LaToya come into the house and take things away from the scene of the crime? Wouldn't the house be roped off by investigators?
6. Would it even be possible for all of his staff to be fired the day of his death or the day after? Wouldn't that be highly suspicious to investigators and law enforcement?
7. False information in the will and the autopsy report... this wouldn't ring any bells for anyone to question? Hello, media! This one is for you.
8. Why was Michael's body in a white sheet and not in the official body bag? What would be the purpose?
9. Why didn't an official like a doctor or police announce his death? Why did his brother do that?
10. Speaking of doctor, why wasn't there an official representative at UCLA ever make a statement? Is the printed one enough? And why has no one, that I know of, from UCLA, make any remarks about what happened that day? Were they even questioned at the preliminaries?
11. Why did the funeral have a stage light? Why was the background of the funeral different depending upon the scene? Also, why did it simply look so damn fake?
12. Why did Dave Dave look different in the Larry King Live interview? (Nose, shape of head, etc.)
13. In the movie This Is It, what are the odds that Michael plays a character that fakes his death and the actor and him have the same birthday?
14. Also, why was that last "BAM" scene even put in the movie?
15. Why was there a laugh added at the end of his signature MJJ Productions?
16. Why are there so many conflicting stories from the family?
17. Why did Jermaine say this is it, this is not really it? (or something like that in the LKL interview)
18. Why did Janet keep smiling during her first interview after MJ's death? It seems like an odd habit to have, especially since she wasn't like that when the Superbowl fiasco happened which was a much less situation compared to a brother being murdered.
19. Why is Teddy Riley saying he is alive?
20. Why hasn't anyone in the family (esp. Randy) say something directly to HIM about this claim?
21. Why were his dancers ushers at the funeral? Why were they smiling happily in that one photo? Why wouldn't they be allowed to grieve alongside his family and friends?
I think these are enough questions for now.
-
Very good post, trustno1. The family has always been the main reason why I cannot rule out the hoax. I've gone back and forth and I always try to keep the idea that MJ could've died but it still doesn't make any sense to me.
If he did die then...
1. Why was there only ONE picture of him dead? Sounds morbid but this picture would be a paparazzi's dream. And the person who happened to be there and taken the big money shot was someone that MJ was okay with it. I won't even say they were friends because I don't know that but they had to be okay with each other to take photos together.
2. Why did TMZ post that he died before the official time? Did someone tell the tabloid that he died awhile ago like LaToya implied recently in an interview? And why would that person call TMZ and say that? Wouldn't that set themselves up if they indeed murdered him?
3. Why did the 911 dispatcher hang up the phone once the person on the phone said they was a doctor there? Wouldn't that dispatcher want to speak with the doctor to find out what's going on?
4. Why did Michael looked so much younger in the ambulance photo?
5. How could Janet and LaToya come into the house and take things away from the scene of the crime? Wouldn't the house be roped off by investigators?
6. Would it even be possible for all of his staff to be fired the day of his death or the day after? Wouldn't that be highly suspicious to investigators and law enforcement?
7. False information in the will and the autopsy report... this wouldn't ring any bells for anyone to question? Hello, media! This one is for you.
8. Why was Michael's body in a white sheet and not in the official body bag? What would be the purpose?
9. Why didn't an official like a doctor or police announce his death? Why did his brother do that?
10. Speaking of doctor, why wasn't there an official representative at UCLA ever make a statement? Is the printed one enough? And why has no one, that I know of, from UCLA, make any remarks about what happened that day? Were they even questioned at the preliminaries?
11. Why did the funeral have a stage light? Why was the background of the funeral different depending upon the scene? Also, why did it simply look so damn fake?
12. Why did Dave Dave look different in the Larry King Live interview? (Nose, shape of head, etc.)
13. In the movie This Is It, what are the odds that Michael plays a character that fakes his death and the actor and him have the same birthday?
14. Also, why was that last "BAM" scene even put in the movie?
15. Why was there a laugh added at the end of his signature MJJ Productions?
16. Why are there so many conflicting stories from the family?
17. Why did Jermaine say this is it, this is not really it? (or something like that in the LKL interview)
18. Why did Janet keep smiling during her first interview after MJ's death? It seems like an odd habit to have, especially since she wasn't like that when the Superbowl fiasco happened which was a much less situation compared to a brother being murdered.
19. Why is Teddy Riley saying he is alive?
20. Why hasn't anyone in the family (esp. Randy) say something directly to HIM about this claim?
21. Why were his dancers ushers at the funeral? Why were they smiling happily in that one photo? Why wouldn't they be allowed to grieve alongside his family and friends?
I think these are enough questions for now.
The denominating answer to those questions come to: Michael IS alive. They scream HOAX!
-
I think these are enough questions for now.
I won't quote them all again - but a nice list of questions you have there. I do hope TS will come and cast his Mr D Avocate's eye over them!
I was particularly struck by number 5:
5. How could Janet and LaToya come into the house and take things away from the scene of the crime? Wouldn't the house be roped off by investigators?
I need to check back on these early days - I have it in my mind that it was not considered a crime scene by police until after the family had been in and out, doing goodness knows what, after which, legally, there would no longer be viable evidence. (Sorry, I can't think of the correct legal term for this!) Is this enough even to throw Murray's case out of court?
Did they just take things out or maybe bring things in too? If LaToya 'knew' from the beginning that MJ had been murdered, as she has been very vocal about, what was she doing entering what she perceived as a crime scene (even if the police didn't). Everyone knows if you suspect foul play, you don't touch ANYTHING.
-
I think these are enough questions for now.
The answer for your why is that MJ was bored of others talking about how dead he was. This time Michael took the main role and played along.
I listened today @LaToya talking about her memories when MJ "died". She said Katherine shouted -"He is dead, dead!!"- and It made me think once more in 3 scenarios going in my mind:
-MJ´s trial in 2005
-The prank in February 2009?
-His fear for his music catalogue and the "evil" double used for legal documents & signatures.
Looks like Michael´s finances were not taken care of properly and people working for him abused this right. Once with no money left, the wanted asset, "the music catalogue" was the last resort to save the financial situation.
The murder or MJ was not in situ, it was a long process since the 90´s but hopefully, he survived and took the leading position. [highlight=#ff80ff:1kgyeqie]At the end, freedom fighters are well known for "having the freedom to choose when to die"[/highlight:1kgyeqie] :)
-
I think these are enough questions for now.
I won't quote them all again - but a nice list of questions you have there. I do hope TS will come and cast his Mr D Avocate's eye over them!
I was particularly struck by number 5:
5. How could Janet and LaToya come into the house and take things away from the scene of the crime? Wouldn't the house be roped off by investigators?
I need to check back on these early days - I have it in my mind that it was not considered a crime scene by police until after the family had been in and out, doing goodness knows what, after which, legally, there would no longer be viable evidence. (Sorry, I can't think of the correct legal term for this!) Is this enough even to throw Murray's case out of court?
Did they just take things out or maybe bring things in too? If LaToya 'knew' from the beginning that MJ had been murdered, as she has been very vocal about, what was she doing entering what she perceived as a crime scene (even if the police didn't). Everyone knows if you suspect foul play, you don't touch ANYTHING.
Here is a quote about LaToya having knowledge even if it's basic about police work:
2007-09: Armed and Famous and Celebrity Big Brother
On January 10, 2007, the reality TV show Armed & Famous premiered on CBS starring Jackson and other celebrities. The program documented Jackson's basic training and service as a reserve police officer with the Muncie Police Department. Jackson maintains her badge by continuing to volunteer as a deputy.[51]
website:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Toya_Jackson#2007-09:_Armed_and_Famous_and_Celebrity_Big_Brother
So with this in mind, no one should have even been in the house regardless until the police or investigators go through and determine if that is a crime scene. She should have known better! Also in the video where she mentions the murder theory (it's on here somewhere) she states that she demanded the vidoes etc. Actually she would have no right to those what so ever considering she wasn't a police officer in CA, they would take presidency over her. None of us would be able to look at an investigator and say that we wanted evidence in a homicide and have them just hand it over. It's the same way with property, they won't hand that over to anyone until after court or their investigation is over and it is no longer needed.
-
So you don't believe MJ's life was in danger?..what about the 2005 Trial, do you think he wasn't in danger, that people just wanted to drag him down and when it didn't work, he gave up?
Then what would be his excuse if he makes a comeback if his life wasn't in danger?
I feel there was a point in time MJ's life might of been threatened, but I don't think this hoax was done because MJ's life was in danger?
As far as I understood some of the believers think that Michael was not in danger at all but he needed an excuse to use after he BAMs. So that is the reson why he was trying to show himself like he was in danger. But to me this is the same thing saying "Michael didn't have any vitiligo but he used it as an excuse to become a white man". It is also the same thing saying he created 2005 trial himself. It is all ridiculous. There have always been some people who wanted to take him down and he was definitely in danger. He left his kids in the public view because that is a safer way for the kids. The paps are following them wherever they go, so they will be protected.
And on the other hand it is sad to see how some didn't understand what an amazing plan this is, and how long it took Michael to prepare it. They forget about 2040 spaceship, 1998 signature, the songs and every other clue Michael gave for YEARS. I saw that some still believe that the hoax was planned to escape doing the concerts. After 2 years, if you still believe this ... I don't want to talk about it no more because it boils my blood. :roll:
-
Agreed. I think most of us have come a long way since the days of discussing skipping the concerts as a possible reason. Bit extreme, no?! He had other assets and unreleased songs as well as his music catalogue if he seriously didn't want to do the concerts, he didn't have to kill himself doing 50 shows if he didn't want to. Which isn't to say he wasn't fit and healthy. He passed a medical remember? And even a super-fit young artist would find a 50 show run gruelling to say the least. All part of the plan.
-
Agreed. I think most of us have come a long way since the days of discussing skipping the concerts as a possible reason. Bit extreme, no?! He had other assets and unreleased songs as well as his music catalogue if he seriously didn't want to do the concerts, he didn't have to kill himself doing 50 shows if he didn't want to. Which isn't to say he wasn't fit and healthy. He passed a medical remember? And even a super-fit young artist would find a 50 show run gruelling to say the least. All part of the plan.
Welcome Back trustno1 bearhug Very well said. I can not believe how people underestimate Michael like this. They know him for real? We have been talking about his genius here for the last two years but they still say that he wanted to escape doing the concerts. HELLLOOOOOO!!! You missed it all?! How can you believe that he was stupid to make a deal that he didn't want to and he was a coward to fake his death just to escape doing the concerts? Why would he fake his death anyway? He would sue AEG if that was the case. So these people believe that those were rehearsals for real, so this means they believe there were no clues in TII. I can not believe this really. When I first saw TII, my jaw dropped. Those can never be rehearsals. They told us it was shot with 2 handy cams but the camera moves tells it all and there were definitely more than 2 handy cams. There was even a dolly camera. THAT WAS A PROFESSIONAL FILM SET with all the equipment! I'm into filmmaking business and I am telling this because it is my profession. Some believers need to think bigger and see the bigger picture.
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
OK suspicious//
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
Hi TS!!
are you talking bout the illusion 777????
-
Welcome back TS...always nice to have you around :)
But I gotta ask...16 pages in your thread and that's all you're gonna say??
Hmmm...ok (I know, patience is a virtue lol) ... so we're on the lookout for 777. Well, it's July 7 (77) ....should we keep our eyes on the clock? Around 7ish?
With L.O.V.E. always.
-
07.07.2011 two years from the most weird memorial ever suspicious//
-
07.07.2011 two years from the most weird memorial ever <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// -->
OMG Gina you are so right ,Today it's 2 years ,I can't believe it <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> !!!!!!!!!!!
-
So you don't believe MJ's life was in danger?..what about the 2005 Trial, do you think he wasn't in danger, that people just wanted to drag him down and when it didn't work, he gave up?
Then what would be his excuse if he makes a comeback if his life wasn't in danger?
I feel there was a point in time MJ's life might of been threatened, but I don't think this hoax was done because MJ's life was in danger?
[highlight=#ff40ff:2pi0ia5s]As far as I understood some of the believers think that Michael was not in danger at all but he needed an excuse to use after he BAMs. So that is the reson why he was trying to show himself like he was in danger. But to me this is the same thing saying "Michael didn't have any vitiligo but he used it as an excuse to become a white man". It is also the same thing saying he created 2005 trial himself. It is all ridiculous. There have always been some people who wanted to take him down and he was definitely in danger. He left his kids in the public view because that is a safer way for the kids. The paps are following them wherever they go, so they will be protected.[/highlight:2pi0ia5s]
And on the other hand it is sad to see how some didn't understand what an amazing plan this is, and how long it took Michael to prepare it. They forget about 2040 spaceship, 1998 signature, the songs and every other clue Michael gave for YEARS. I saw that some still believe that the hoax was planned to escape doing the concerts. After 2 years, if you still believe this ... I don't want to talk about it no more because it boils my blood. :roll:
I don't think that MJ was in extreme danger, I have asked before in this thread, if he was, why are his children still out and about. It (in my opinion) doesn't make sense that he would expose his children so we the general public could keep an eye on them. What are we in the general public suppose to do, what resources to we have? Also, the children weren't exposed to the public after 6/25 but rather before it. I suppose that would be to confirm those are infact his children if we see them with him. I like seeing that they are able to have a "normal" life don't get me wrong. But with MJ being a parent and wanting children for many years, he would do what ever it took to protect his children. So let's say he was in danger as much as he told us and his family, wouldn't he protect his children which would mean to keep them away from anyone who could harm them? They are out and about all the time, anyone and everyone is able to harm them. I don't think they deserve to sit in a house all day in order to protect themselves but still. Perhaps I'm not seeing things or thinking on the same level as others but I don't feel that we should be ridiculed for the way that we do think! I think your comment about those who believe he wasn't in danger and he uses that as an excuse and putting it in the same category as he wanted to be white so he made the excuse of having vitiligo, is a far stretch. Not everyone thinks the same and should not be put down because they don't agree with everything that is being said. I don't believe in the Illuminati and that's my right, I don't think things should be shoved down peoples throats because we disagree. It's called a discussion for a reason. We all need to remember that!
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
777? 7/7 at 7 pm? That will be 4 am here.... Tell Mike he is killing me, I am old and ugly when this hoax is over.
Big kiss anyways, "it's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast" hahahahahahaha!
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/Old_Demon/Funnies/UglyWoman.gif)
-
goodness souza!! you look like that?? lol Get some sleep!
-
goodness souza!! you look like that?? lol Get some sleep!
Yes, and it's my best picture. errrr
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- smoonwalk_/ -->moonwalk_/<!-- smoonwalk_/ -->
777? 7/7 at 7 pm? That will be 4 am here.... Tell Mike he is killing me, I am old and ugly when this hoax is over.
Big kiss anyways, "it's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast" hahahahahahaha!
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/Old_Demon/Funnies/UglyWoman.gif)
<!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
-
[font=cursive:2ed2mad4]Speaking of UCLA, I just found this...sorta interesting![/font:2ed2mad4]
Calif. hospital system settles celeb records cases
APAP – 37 mins ago
LOS ANGELES (AP) — A California hospital system has agreed to pay $865,500 after two celebrity patients accused hospital workers of illegally snooping into their medical records.
The settlement that UCLA Health System reached with federal regulators Wednesday did not name the stars or facilities involved. An investigation by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services revealed that workers repeatedly accessed patients' electronic health records between 2005 and 2008.
During that period, several were suspended or fired after they peeped into the health records of celebrities including Farrah Fawcett, Britney Spears and Maria Shriver.
In a statement Thursday, UCLA said it has taken steps over the past three years to retrain staff and strengthen its computer systems.
UCLA Health System operates four hospitals along with several primary care and specialty care offices.
-
goodness souza!! you look like that?? lol Get some sleep!
Yes, and it's my best picture. errrr
Yeah Souza looks like my aunt afraid/ afraid/ afraid/
I'll end up like this from all the waiting
[thumbnail:3mstkqpl]http://www.highestfive.com/wp-content/uploads/computer_death.jpg[/thumbnail:3mstkqpl]
-
!!!! WHAT TIME IS ?,.......... here is 8:00 pm errrr
-
!!!! WHAT TIME IS ?,.......... here is 8:00 pm errrr
Lucky you...
(http://pro.corbis.com/images/AX059567.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BE6B9966B-E6F2-488E-886C-C3C457BFFE5A%7D)
Worst part is that I am only guessing, maybe that is not what TS meant and I am staying up late for no reason. suspicious//
-
If TS to post at 7:00 pm hours (California time) here in Brazil is 11: 00 pm. I wanna see so much, a big post tomorrow, TS... Please!
It's very interesting this comment TS keep an eye on 777. He could have something to do with The Ilusion777?
Do not totally believe it, but today's news was interesting.
I keep watching. michael-jackson/
-
UGH! Keep an eye on 777, Oh TS.....my head is spinning! Advil Please!!! My thoughts go to a time frame or to the Illusion777 also. Hey maybe something while occur on 7/14 (7-7-7) so to speak. All day today I kept thinking we would hear something do to the two year anniversary of "the memorial". Thanks TS, you came through....now we think and wait.....take care, love to all afraid/ confused/ confused/ confused/ confused/
-
(http://pro.corbis.com/images/AX059567.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BE6B9966B-E6F2-488E-886C-C3C457BFFE5A%7D)
je,je,je,je,je :lol:
-
Ohhh….. I will definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for 777 8-)
Wanted to add my 2 cents worth and why I believe it is a hoax and Michael is still alive. These are just a few of the key pieces of evidence for me. Of course there is a lot more evidence and others have listed them. Everyone has done such a great job in bringing it all together in this thread.
In no particular order:
If MJ was murdered then that would mean also that the murderers would have to play a role in the Memorial Service – both in its timing and its content and make people do and say certain things. For example:
Jermaine singing the wrong lyrics for “Smile”
PainS instead of pain – both in song and also on the background imagery behind the stage
Kenny Ortega saying “we were here.... right here... a little less than a week ago”
"I'm alive and here forever"
Choosing the red roses on the coffin...which “coincidentally” match those on the coffin in V for Vendetta.
Many of MJ’s close friends did not attend the Memorial...eg Liz Taylor, Mac, Liza Minnelli...etc...now if MJ really was murdered why wouldn’t they go to his Memorial?
Surely if MJ were really dead then the family would want control of his Memorial and not let the people who killed him take over control of it.
The date of Funeral was “conveniently” displayed weeks before the actual event via the price on the “bloody shirt” hanging in the closet. So if he were killed then "they" would have also controlled this. If they had killed MJ then that means they also organised and controlled the funeral rather than the family controlling it all. If the illuminati or whoever murdered MJ would they really have a clue about what date the funeral would be held? I doubt it – their job would have been done and over with. I highly doubt they would go further and expose their involvement by organising his funeral. Would the family REALLY let this happen if MJ really was murdered? I doubt it.
Why would his killers have a funeral so fake and staged if there really was a dead body to bury? Also – why the time delay from the Memorial to the Funeral....if he really was murdered then would the family really let this delay be for so long and let his killers dictate even his funeral...I highly doubt it.
LaToya, Jermaine and KO supported the hoax timing....i.e. 999 in CD Xmas shopping/ Jermaine’s Tribute concert announcement/TII poster etc etc. If they were supporting the hoax timing and the people who wanted him dead caught on, then wouldn’t that mean that LaToya, Jermaine and KO were involved in his murder by supporting the timing MJ had planned? I really don’t think his family or KO would be involved in such a plot.
Jermaine’s airport slipup which ties in with Ben’s comment “that day and the other d....” To me suggests that if he was going to be killed then MJ out thought any plans to kill him and had everything set up ready to go so the “illusion was to start on the 25th” (As stated by KO at the Dr M prelim) and he had already escaped before the 25/6/09.
Fake ambo photo – why would his killers bother making such an obviously fake photo when there was a high chance some quick paparazzi could get a real one if he really was killed.
Surely MJ would have included a few key figures to help him in this hoax. The timing on “his command” and certain things happening on certain days. He would have laid down the foundations long ago and probably informed these “key” people. If the plan didn’t go as MJ had planned with these key ppl (probably key family members) then wouldn’t that trigger alarm bells that his death really wasn’t really a hoax as he had been planning. Putting 2040 on the spaceship in the History concert... would his killers really know this was his death date added up way back then?
The death certificate(s) supposedly signed by LaToya (as she has stated in an interview). She has no authority to do that and if MJ really was dead then surely there would be a legitimate Death Cert and it would be signed by a legitimate Doctor.
The fake autopsy report which seems to be made up of the AR’s of about 3 or 4 different people. Several different variations of MJ’s name are used on the report. There are so many inconsistencies with the AR that it would be best to go back to that thread dedicated to it to see them all. So if he really was dead then why bother faking an AR...wouldn’t there have been a real one done. Also the timing of the fake AR was finalised on 090909....why would his killers bring attention to what they have done by using this number so obviously tied into the numerology MJ was using on an obviously fake AR.
TII movie – his killers would have made MJ insert himself into a movie playing the character of a man who faked his death by an actor who shared the same birthday as MJ. If MJ thought he was in danger and about to be killed I doubt he would have agreed to inserting himself into such a movie for TII.
The family’s lack of emotions/tears says speaks volumes. If he really was murdered then at least some of the family would be distraught beyond belief, especially Michael's kids....wouldn’t they be kicking up a much bigger fuss if he was really murdered? I know I would be if it were a member of my family.
:)
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
I don't know what that means but I hope it's an update. In the meantime, I'm dancing! penguin/ moonwalk_/ mj_bad/ mj_dance/ elvis_/ michael-jackson/ party/
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
I've not really been into the whole TS thing but I must say that you've got me refreshing my Yahoo news page. Damn you. Damn you to heck!
-
Uhhh, please don't shoot me then hang me out to dry but....could TS be Illusion777? http://theillusion777.wordpress.com/ (http://theillusion777.wordpress.com/)
-
Uhhh, please don't shoot me then hang me out to dry but....could TS be Illusion777? http://theillusion777.wordpress.com/ (http://theillusion777.wordpress.com/)
Ohh no please do not bring that troll into this thread.
-
So you don't believe MJ's life was in danger?..what about the 2005 Trial, do you think he wasn't in danger, that people just wanted to drag him down and when it didn't work, he gave up?
Then what would be his excuse if he makes a comeback if his life wasn't in danger?
I feel there was a point in time MJ's life might of been threatened, but I don't think this hoax was done because MJ's life was in danger?
[highlight=#ff40ff:3g1s560a]As far as I understood some of the believers think that Michael was not in danger at all but he needed an excuse to use after he BAMs. So that is the reson why he was trying to show himself like he was in danger. But to me this is the same thing saying "Michael didn't have any vitiligo but he used it as an excuse to become a white man". It is also the same thing saying he created 2005 trial himself. It is all ridiculous. There have always been some people who wanted to take him down and he was definitely in danger. He left his kids in the public view because that is a safer way for the kids. The paps are following them wherever they go, so they will be protected.[/highlight:3g1s560a]
And on the other hand it is sad to see how some didn't understand what an amazing plan this is, and how long it took Michael to prepare it. They forget about 2040 spaceship, 1998 signature, the songs and every other clue Michael gave for YEARS. I saw that some still believe that the hoax was planned to escape doing the concerts. After 2 years, if you still believe this ... I don't want to talk about it no more because it boils my blood. :roll:
I don't think that MJ was in extreme danger, I have asked before in this thread, if he was, why are his children still out and about. It (in my opinion) doesn't make sense that he would expose his children so we the general public could keep an eye on them. What are we in the general public suppose to do, what resources to we have? Also, the children weren't exposed to the public after 6/25 but rather before it. I suppose that would be to confirm those are infact his children if we see them with him. I like seeing that they are able to have a "normal" life don't get me wrong. But with MJ being a parent and wanting children for many years, he would do what ever it took to protect his children. So let's say he was in danger as much as he told us and his family, wouldn't he protect his children which would mean to keep them away from anyone who could harm them? They are out and about all the time, anyone and everyone is able to harm them. I don't think they deserve to sit in a house all day in order to protect themselves but still. Perhaps I'm not seeing things or thinking on the same level as others but I don't feel that we should be ridiculed for the way that we do think! I think your comment about those who believe he wasn't in danger and he uses that as an excuse and putting it in the same category as he wanted to be white so he made the excuse of having vitiligo, is a far stretch. Not everyone thinks the same and should not be put down because they don't agree with everything that is being said. I don't believe in the Illuminati and that's my right, I don't think things should be shoved down peoples throats because we disagree. It's called a discussion for a reason. We all need to remember that!
I hope TS' new post is a good answer to you and to everyone who think that Michael is/was not in danger. ;)
-
@ Souza - Because I have seen it that close to me, I know that Michael most likely forgave his father.
No disrespect intended but having the personal experience along with 4 other siblings, it is not always the case that people "forgive and forget". That doesn't always happen that I'm sure you know. Although I could never do it on the grand scale that MJ has done; sometimes that only thing a person can do to cope with what has been done to them is to show love and kindness to others so the pattern doesn't continue. It's wonderful that MJ made amends with his father over the years, but it took a lot of hard work, but not everyone can do that.
Just something I'm throwing out there, and of course it's just my opinion.
That is why I said 'most likely', hinting to the fact that it's not always the case.
And I'd just like to add as well, I also have abusive father issues close to me, and they've told me that part of their therapy, for any abusive figure in your life, including mother or father, is to just drop them. They don't deserve the time of day from you, much less your love, for making your life hell when you were a helpless child, especially as your parent. Now, obviously Joe did more than the average father for his kids future-wise. Very commendable. But he could have done it in a way that didn't make the children suffer. I don't like him either, but I'm not saying to publicly bash him. I'm just saying that it might not be so easy for everyone to respect him, and, personally, I hope that MJ hasn't wasted his time doing special favors or anything like that for that man..
-
by TS_comments » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:55 pm
Keep an eye out for 777!
by TS_comments » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:00 pm
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Update%204/Update%204b/Red777Shirt.jpg)
We're always keeping an eye out-- except when we're sleeping, which is what I'm going to do now! :)
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
[highlight=#ff0000:3a1trr2n]If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it.[/highlight:3a1trr2n]And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
Hello, TS!
I got a reply from you at last! Such a nice surprise after I came back from vacation.<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Had I known I would have gone much earlier, right after I posted that question lol
But jokes aside, because I really don't understand the part that i bolded red and why you think Michael is so close to his family. I read a lot about their relationships throughout the years and I must say that they were not the nice ones, especially with Jermaine and Randy. Not to mention his beautiful sister La Toya, that was blabbering on about him bieng guilty in that molesting crap all over the place. Also, as far as I know, Randy wasnt even allowed to come in to his house and his guards were holding a gun on him ( though it wasnt the first time for Randy, I think he's already used to it, remembering the latest episode with Tina Turner and his poor shot a8s lmao )
Also, what about the family reunion with the all good (not sure if it's the correct name of the company ) company, that Michael was so against to take part in?and there were much more evidences that i used to come across on the internet.
All of them gave me the strong feeling that Michael hardly was close to his family and would ever let them into the hoax.
But lets forget for a second about the past. What do we have from them now? What have all of them been up2? Making numerous tributes, books, interviews, shows...the list is pretty long and every part of it is only about making money. Does it look like they are on Michael part? I don't think so. I assume Michael has always been a cash cow for them but that does not mean Michael was so happy about it. Even if he pulled the hoax off for the money only ( which I don't think at all ) it does not mean he would be happy about their hands on it. What does his will ( no matter if we think it was a fake or not, the will does exist and was proven legit )say? NO ONE of them wont get anything, only his mother and children. Dos it say something to you? And how his siblings are whining about it being fake. Why? In my humble opinion, if it is a hoax ( which i have no doubts it is ), Michael set the will up the way he wanted to. That's why he hired Branca again..But that's just my guess and I could be wrong. However, we can't close our eyes on the facts about his family, a small part of which i have listed above.
Offtopic. Nice to see all of you again! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
Offtopic numba 2 - TS, i am sure you're kidding about " what if it's not a hoax " part <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
Hahahahahaha... :lol: Guess what I was watching last night TS?
"I am Balthazar Blake, sorcerer of the 777th degree, and you are my apprentice." geek/
Ya that about sums it up. That's how I feel on this forum sometimes. bow/
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0 ... z1RZoQpxtS (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2003934,00.html#ixzz1RZoQpxtS)
OK...so I've checked in after the last 16 pages that make me want to scream; literately. I had a SCREAMING headache after all that...on to the next redirect, then maybe I'll be back here after my head clears over the weekend. Processing, processing, processing. What ever happens... But here's the short answer: MJ out thought them; I mean really?!
-
Keep an eye out for 777!
:) :) moonwalk_/
777? 7/7 at 7 pm? That will be 4 am here.... Tell Mike he is killing me, I am old and ugly when this hoax is over.
Big kiss anyways, "it's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast" hahahahahahaha!
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/Old_Demon/Funnies/UglyWoman.gif)
urrr that's ugly...I hope to die before I look like that.
-
GINAFELICIA wrote:
~Souza~ wrote:
TS_comments wrote:
Keep an eye out for 777!
777? 7/7 at 7 pm? That will be 4 am here.... Tell Mike he is killing me, I am old and ugly when this hoax is over.
Big kiss anyways, "it's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast" hahahahahahaha!
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/Old_Demon/Funnies/UglyWoman.gif)
urrr that's ugly...I hope to die before I look like that.
(http://www.emoticones.eu/emoticones-sonrisas/desternillandose.gif)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Grace
Those 50 shows at age 50 - never did these 50 sit right.
Besides the reference to Jubilee and deliverance, there's also the "coincidental" way that 02 Arena is like 50 reversed! (Somewhere I remember reading someone had a long list of all the manipulations that made amazing sense, including This is It, as well.)
If accurate, the story of the bell cracking 50 years after 1776 and not ringing again sounds supernatural/from God.
Deliverance is also specified in Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
The parallels just go on and on.
The Day of Atonement, and shed blood, reminds me of Blood on the Dance Floor (dance floor being a metaphor for life). And Michael says he's been bleeding.
Animals strike, not from malice, but because they want to live, it is the same with those who criticize, they desire our blood, not our pain. But still I must achieve I must seek truth in all things. I must endure for the power I was sent forth, for the world for the children.
But have mercy, for I've been bleeding a long time now."
(Written by Michael Jackson, 1995 on a hotel napkin.
http://bigsole.blogspot.com/2009/06/mix ... ldren.html (http://bigsole.blogspot.com/2009/06/mixed-on-michael-jacksons-children.html)
-
[font=cursive:2ngqo650]Great post MJonmind.
If anyone wants to learn ANYTHING about God & how he operates and when things will happen just study the Jewish Feasts and Festivals; it's all there...
Well,
I was going to do a long thoughtful reply to several people but have opted out, I have no evidence that would PROVE MJ is dead or alive; just the inconsistencies we all know about that just don't add up, and that's why we're here. After mos of unbearable grief, All I can say is when I heard that voice on LKL my heart dropped. I raced around the corner... and was NOT expecting to see Dave Dave. The Spirit knows what the eye can not see. There's NO WAY on God's green earth you can convince me that was Dave Dave. suspicious// As someone with a background in Portrait Photography I study people's body language & features...ya I'm a people watcher! That was for me clue #1 suspicious//
#2 "I'm Alive and I'm here forever" Strangely enough I never saw that at the memorial. I must have been making a kleenex run. This came weeks later after being under a constant heavy prayer burden for someone "dead" I could not get a grasp on. I thought I was going to die or go insane... :cry:
#3 I have had 2 dreams & one vision. I do not remember my dreams unless they mean something. It's a God thing that started around 10 yrs ago when I went through the Wilderness Experience. 'What ever happens; don't let go of my hand' is not just a song for me; and that's all I will say about that. Those two dreams are between me, God & MJ if he ever wishes to know them & the interpretations thereof. I know it was God because when I looked at my phone to see what time it was it was 3:33 am. This is NOT common for me. Also; I have NEVER had a vision in my life and it about knocked me out of my chair. It was very short, but I felt the physical shift in time...it almost made me nauseous. :shock:
Last but not least since all of that:
#4 Monster Rap lyrics & it's connection to Threatened, Thriller & TII
So there it is.
God Bless TS, MJ & you all
bearhug [/font:2ngqo650]
-
[font=cursive:1moux4uq]After mos of unbearable grief, All I can say is when I heard that voice on LKL my heart dropped. [/font:1moux4uq]
I don't remember if I said about this before but I was in my office about one year ago and I was watching Dave Dave and someone who has nothing to do with MJ came in and, hearing the voice, she asked me like it was obvious "Is that Michael Jackson?" . And she's not a fan and she doesn't care about MJ and she doesn't believe he is alive.
-
[font=cursive:38bzmxhs]After mos of unbearable grief, All I can say is when I heard that voice on LKL my heart dropped. [/font:38bzmxhs]
I don't remember if I said about this before but I was in my office about one year ago and I was watching Dave Dave and someone who has nothing to do with MJ came in and, hearing the voice, she asked me like it was obvious "Is that Michael Jackson?" . And she's not a fan and she doesn't care about MJ and she doesn't believe he is alive.
[font=Century Gothic:38bzmxhs]Yep...there's just something about that man that transcends the physical. It doesn't matter who you are or what culture you come from. 8-) [/font:38bzmxhs]
-
Souza quoting Monster, (with the sweet pic! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> )
"777? 7/7 at 7 pm? That will be 4 am here.... Tell Mike he is killing me, I am old and ugly when this hoax is over.
Big kiss anyways, "it's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast" hahahahahahaha!", got me thinking about hidden references in it to the hoax (similar to Threatened and Thriller). The media portrayed MJ as a monster of sorts, weird, hurting children, plastic, bleached skin and on and on. MJ says he is the monster who comes out from everywhere to "scare" the general population, and he's using his camera on all of us (reversed). The paps are also like monsters trying to get at him from even behind the bushes. Everyone was trying to destroy MJ, but the tables are turned and now MJ is everywhere viewing the situation watching the world squirming and fearful and confused. TPTB think they are in control of this world--controlling it by fear/intimidation, lies and power by money. But MJ sits and laughs from his hidden perch, saying he's the one they should be afraid of.
TS definately seems to indicate that TPTB dangers are real, relating to MJ and all of us. Could it be that God has placed a shield of protection all around MJ and his family, while they provocatively expose, taunt and create an elaborate long-term death hoax right under their (TPTB) nose and within their camp, and they are powerless to stop or interfere with it. "If God is for us, who can be against us!" --type scenario.
"Monster"
(feat. 50 Cent)
You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes
You can find them when the letter’s bout to fall
He be waiting with his camera right on focus
Everywhere you seem to turn
there’s a monster
When you look up in the air there’s a monster
Paparazzi got you scared like a monster, monster, monster
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood it’s got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It’s got you bouncing off the wall
It’s got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like
Don’t you, don’t you like it
Monster
He’s a monster
He’s an animal
Monster (yea-eah)
He’s a monster
He’s an animal
He’s coming at ya
Coming at ya rather too fast
Mama say mama got you in a zig zag
And you’re running
And you’re running just to escape it
But they are gunning for the money
So they fake it
Everywhere you seem to turn
there’s a monster
When you look up in the air there’s a monster
When you see them in the street
that’s a monster, monster, monster
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood it’s got you jumping like you should
It’s got you bouncing off the wall
It’s got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Monster
(he’s like an animal)
He’s a monster
(just like an animal)
He’s an animal
(and he’s moving in the air)
Monster
He’s a monster
He’s an animal
(everybody wanna be a star)
Why are they never satisfied with all you give, yeh, yeh, yeh, yeah
You give them your all
They’re watching you fall
And they eat your soul like a vegetable
[50 Cent]
Catch me in a bad mood, flippin’ you’ll take a whippin’
animal, hannibal, cannibal addition
tears appear, yeah, blurring your vision
fear in the air, screaming, your blood drippin’
shiver a second, now, now, now, now what is it
funeral’s, cemetaries, don’t worry it’s time to visit
broke bones, tombstones, how do you think I’m kidding
its home, sweet home, the land of the forbidden
all hell, run tell, the King has risen
2010 Thriller, there’s nothing iller, it’s killer
there vision, the missin’ the pack, this is that,
this the bomb, ring the alarm
MJ number 1, it’s goes on and on
its goes on and on
we get to crippin’, its running in the early morn’
keep on dreaming there’s nowhere to run
you can drive but you done
I can feel it in the air, here the monster come.
[Michael Jackson]
Too bad, oh oh Hollywood it’s got you jumping like you should
It’s got you bouncing off the wall
It’s got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just making it clearer
And tell me you like
Don’t you don’t you like it
Monster
(she wanna be a star)
He’s a monster
(say you wanna go far)
He’s an animal
(Why do you keep stalking me)
Monster
(what you do to me)
He’s a monster
(why did you take, why did you fake it)
He’s an animal
(yee-aah, why are stalking me)
Monster
(why are you haunting me)
He’s a monster
(why are you stalking me)
He’s an animal
(why did you do it, why did you, why are you stalking me)
Monster
(why are you haunting me)
He’s a monster
(why are you haunting me)
He’s an animal
(Why did you, why did you)
He’s dragging you down like a monster
he’s keeping you down like a monster
He’s dragging you down like a monster
He’s keeping you down like a monster
-
Souza quoting Monster, (with the sweet pic! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> )
"777? 7/7 at 7 pm? That will be 4 am here.... Tell Mike he is killing me, I am old and ugly when this hoax is over.
Big kiss anyways, "it's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast" hahahahahahaha!", got me thinking about hidden references in it to the hoax (similar to Threatened and Thriller). The media portrayed MJ as a monster of sorts, weird, hurting children, plastic, bleached skin and on and on. MJ says he is the monster who comes out from everywhere to "scare" the general population, and he's using his camera on all of us (reversed). The paps are also like monsters trying to get at him from even behind the bushes. Everyone was trying to destroy MJ, but the tables are turned and now MJ is everywhere viewing the situation watching the world squirming and fearful and confused. TPTB think they are in control of this world--controlling it by fear/intimidation, lies and power by money. But MJ sits and laughs from his hidden perch, saying he's the one they should be afraid of.
TS definately seems to indicate that TPTB dangers are real, relating to MJ and all of us. Could it be that God has placed a shield of protection all around MJ and his family, while they provocatively expose, taunt and create an elaborate long-term death hoax right under their (TPTB) nose and within their camp, and they are powerless to stop or interfere with it. "If God is for us, who can be against us!" --type scenario.
"Monster"
(feat. 50 Cent)
[50 Cent]
Catch me in a bad mood, flippin’ you’ll take a whippin’
animal, hannibal, cannibal addition
tears appear, yeah, blurring your vision
fear in the air, screaming, your blood drippin’
shiver a second, now, now, now, now what is it
funeral’s, cemetaries, don’t worry it’s time to visit
broke bones, tombstones, how do you think I’m kidding
[glow=red:1pspns9u]its home, sweet home, the land of the forbidden
all hell, run tell, the King has risen
2010 Thriller, there’s nothing iller, it’s killer[/glow:1pspns9u][/size]
there vision, the missin’ the pack, this is that,
this the bomb, ring the alarm
MJ number 1, it’s goes on and on
its goes on and on
we get to crippin’, its running in the early morn’
keep on dreaming there’s nowhere to run
you can drive but you done
I can feel it in the air, here the monster come.
<!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ --> <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
-
Hey guys....
I thought I'd post some thoughts here....there are some brilliant minds here. I need some help with this train of thought....hoping someone might jump on board, lol.
I have been thinking this Rupert Murdoch thing is bigger than all heck. It reaches into many different, dark corners of so-called journalism/media. You can google what he owns...it's astounding. Here a link to one site that lists many:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x6021496 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6021496)
In the world of media...he can dominate. I have found that he is member of the Order of St. Gregory. a Catholic knighthood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_S ... _the_Great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_St._Gregory_the_Great)
and might lose it:
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comment ... rescinded/ (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/07/08/debate-should-rupert-murdochs-papal-knighthood-be-rescinded/)
It was in January 1998:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/acc ... +Catholics (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/25172464.html?dids=25172464:25172464&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jan+3%2C+1998&author=JOHN+DART&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&edition=&startpage=1&desc=Pope+Bestows+Knighthood+on+64+Prominent+L.A.+Catholics)
Murdoch claims not to be very religious, however, his wife is catholic:
http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/ (http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/)
His current wife is interesting...he married her 17 days after his divorce from Anna......on June 25,1999.
Interesting:
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/ ... /Deng.html (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/Deng.html)
Now, that all set the stage for my thought train:
1) I can't help but think there is a link to Tommy Mottola (Universal Music Group/Casablanca Records??)
2) Is the link to Mottola a bad one...or was Mottola onto something about Murdoch?
3) The knighthood thing is extremely interesting to me. There is talk of him being Jewish, being Catholic, not being anything. The Order of St. Gregory is interesting to read about:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/gregory.htm (http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/gregory.htm)
http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/st_gregory.html (http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/st_gregory.html)
4) Is there a link to some of the medals/ribbons that Michael wore during the trial...they are similar to the Order's medals...you can see it in above links.
5) Murdoch's News of the World is the one that published the deathbed picture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pECpNZ3bNk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pECpNZ3bNk)
6) Since when does a state thank a religion?
http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/pd ... _Award.pdf (http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/pdf/California_Legislature_Community_Service_Assembly_Award.pdf)
7) Here is my million dollar thought.....
Is there a link between Michael's accusations and Murdoch? In order to shed light away from the Catholic church's own scandals at the time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases)) did Murdoch knowingly set up Michael in the media and public's eyes? Was it for knighthood? A promise to the church? He certainly had the means to set him up....the church, the state, the media empire at his call. Was he the crux of it all? Did Murdoch enable the media to run with wild accusations about Michael?
Anyways....that's a start.
I have tried to summarize things here.....sorry for the long, rambling post.
I'd appreciate any feedback, thoughts...TS, that includes you! We all have different thoughts and opinions...it's only together that we are strong enough to face the adversity of belief. Being a beLIEver means more than just believing in a death hoax. It means you are in it for the long haul....believing in Michael and his family.
I wish you all nothing but the best blessings always!
LOVE
-
OMGsoh.....I just googled...... Rupert Murdoch Elvis Presley
I don't have time right now....but there is a huge amount! I will read through it more and post later....just fyi.
Blessings!
-
OMGsoh.....I just googled...... Rupert Murdoch Elvis Presley
I don't have time right now....but there is a huge amount! I will read through it more and post later....just fyi.
Blessings!
Looking forward to what you find! It's interesting about Murdock and the Catholic connection, which connects to TPTB and the NWO, and the grand Revelation Plan of God. There's always chain of command.
-
Hey guys....
I thought I'd post some thoughts here....there are some brilliant minds here. I need some help with this train of thought....hoping someone might jump on board, lol.
I have been thinking this Rupert Murdoch thing is bigger than all heck. It reaches into many different, dark corners of so-called journalism/media. You can google what he owns...it's astounding. Here a link to one site that lists many:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x6021496 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6021496)
In the world of media...he can dominate. I have found that he is member of the Order of St. Gregory. a Catholic knighthood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_S ... _the_Great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_St._Gregory_the_Great)
and might lose it:
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comment ... rescinded/ (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/07/08/debate-should-rupert-murdochs-papal-knighthood-be-rescinded/)
It was in January 1998:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/acc ... +Catholics (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/25172464.html?dids=25172464:25172464&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jan+3%2C+1998&author=JOHN+DART&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&edition=&startpage=1&desc=Pope+Bestows+Knighthood+on+64+Prominent+L.A.+Catholics)
Murdoch claims not to be very religious, however, his wife is catholic:
http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/ (http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/)
His current wife is interesting...he married her 17 days after his divorce from Anna......on June 25,1999.
Interesting:
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/ ... /Deng.html (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/Deng.html)
Now, that all set the stage for my thought train:
1) I can't help but think there is a link to Tommy Mottola (Universal Music Group/Casablanca Records??)
2) Is the link to Mottola a bad one...or was Mottola onto something about Murdoch?
3) The knighthood thing is extremely interesting to me. There is talk of him being Jewish, being Catholic, not being anything. The Order of St. Gregory is interesting to read about:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/gregory.htm (http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/gregory.htm)
http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/st_gregory.html (http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/st_gregory.html)
4) Is there a link to some of the medals/ribbons that Michael wore during the trial...they are similar to the Order's medals...you can see it in above links.
5) Murdoch's News of the World is the one that published the deathbed picture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pECpNZ3bNk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pECpNZ3bNk)
6) Since when does a state thank a religion?
http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/pd ... _Award.pdf (http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/pdf/California_Legislature_Community_Service_Assembly_Award.pdf)
7) Here is my million dollar thought.....
Is there a link between Michael's accusations and Murdoch? In order to shed light away from the Catholic church's own scandals at the time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases)) did Murdoch knowingly set up Michael in the media and public's eyes? Was it for knighthood? A promise to the church? He certainly had the means to set him up....the church, the state, the media empire at his call. Was he the crux of it all? Did Murdoch enable the media to run with wild accusations about Michael?
Anyways....that's a start.
I have tried to summarize things here.....sorry for the long, rambling post.
I'd appreciate any feedback, thoughts...TS, that includes you! We all have different thoughts and opinions...it's only together that we are strong enough to face the adversity of belief. Being a beLIEver means more than just believing in a death hoax. It means you are in it for the long haul....believing in Michael and his family.
I wish you all nothing but the best blessings always!
LOVE
[highlight=#ff0000:35s2gge5]note to check out further when i have more time[/highlight:35s2gge5]
-
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_b ... ossip.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2011/07/rupert-murdoch-elvis-presley-gossip.html)
http://www.elviscommunity.com/service/d ... 8&d=677883 (http://www.elviscommunity.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=27782&w=105118&d=677883)
http://express-press-release.net/9/Elvi ... urdoch.php (http://express-press-release.net/9/Elvis%20Presley%20and%20the%20Press%20Baron,%20Rupert%20Murdoch.php)
Those are just a few links to Elvis related sites/articles....there is too much to post.
Some other random Murdoch things:
http://www.amazon.com/Rupert-Murdoch-TI ... B0002NPRKS (http://www.amazon.com/Rupert-Murdoch-TIME-Cover-Magazine/dp/B0002NPRKS)
I think these are really interesting articles about Murdoch...they might belong on some other thread as well:
http://www.pophistorydig.com/?p=7131 (http://www.pophistorydig.com/?p=7131)
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11673/ (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11673/)
OK...that's just a few links to things....back to the Elvis connection. Murdoch helped publish a scandalous book about Elvis..."Elvis What Happened?".....a few days later Elvis is found dead. Murdoch is thinking he hit gold, right? His papers go crazy with stories. Can't you see Michael being furious because of the pain it caused Lisa? I can totally see him back in 1977 planning on taking Murdoch down. It took until now to do so.....bit by bit, Murdoch is crumbling. Murdoch got wind of Michael's intentions towards him....and hit him with the first round of allegations. When they didn't stick, Murdoch hit him again with the 2005 trial allegations. It would explain the looks on Michael's face at times. To me, when I watch the videos of the courthouse arrivals etc. Michael seems to have something like this on his mind. He knew he was being set up....and by who. It's an enormous real-life chess game between them. I have a feeling Michael's hoax is a checkmate to Murdoch. One of the articles mentions how Murdoch changed the cover of the Post with a red stripe in the earlier days of taking it over. It wouldn't surprise me if Michael's armbands were really an inside reminder to Murdoch that he's coming for him. I know the reason Michael has stated he wore the armbands and all. However, perhaps the red ones were reserved just for Murdoch.
Lisa was almost right when she told us Michael worried about, "ending up like her father". However, I firmly believe Michael has out-thought the media giants of the world. I hope it comes with a comeback for Michael. However, if he's happy and content with life...that's good enough for me. If Michael were here, I'd tell him to look at the stars in the night sky and dance under the moon, I'll Be There.
Blessings to you Michael.....
LOVE Always
-
Wishing Star, was it not stated somewhere that Michael met Elvis and had a conversation with him. Who knows what they discussed.
-
Hey Lemonbread904.....
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12092 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12092)
Have a beautiful day!
-
Does anyone think Elvis might not be alive any more...like maybe he died recently?
I also wonder if MJ met with Elvis after he "died".
-
Does anyone think Elvis might not be alive any more...like maybe he died recently?
I also wonder if MJ met with Elvis after he "died".
Wouldn't that be too convenient? <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
-
Does anyone think Elvis might not be alive any more...like maybe he died recently?
I also wonder if MJ met with Elvis after he "died".
Wouldn't that be too convenient? <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
It reminds me of Chandler..could he still be alive.
-
Does anyone think Elvis might not be alive any more...like maybe he died recently?
I also wonder if MJ met with Elvis after he "died".
Wouldn't that be too convenient? <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
It reminds me of Chandler..could he still be alive.
I thought of that so many times.....about Elvis (Chandler too.....)...but Elvis is what really makes me think.
I keep going over all that we saw...the ambulance, the helicopter, the memorial, funeral......things just do not add up to be Michael. But, what a tribute to the King of rock 'n roll....I think it's too far fetched for me. But, interesting to think about. Is that straight jacket laying about anywhere <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- slolol/ -->lolol/<!-- slolol/ -->
Blessings
-
Does anyone think Elvis might not be alive any more...like maybe he died recently?
I also wonder if MJ met with Elvis after he "died".
Wouldn't that be too convenient? <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
It reminds me of Chandler..could he still be alive.
You may be onto something, there. #1, MJ would have HAD to have gotten permission from the King, for his only daughter's hand in marriage(even though it wasn't really his to give, there was a risk, hooking up with someone certain ignorant people think is a pedophile and other scary people want to kill...I imagine they had that <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> "father/son in law talk" , even if only by telephone. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> ).
#2, I think it kind of suspicious, that a sworn, vicious enemy such as Evan Chandler, would decide to fall on his own sword on the MOST serious hoax date he could have POSSIBLY picked, the V for Vendetta Day, November 5th. I mean did you all READ what he said about Michael Jackson??? Did you read what he planned to DO to him????? So...he gets his wish, sort of---even though MJ isn't ruined per se, he seems to be all broken and anesthetizing himself, nightly, the rest of his life AS IF he is-------
Why ISN'T Chandler fiendishly delighted, partying gleefully?????????????????
Because. He is not a REAL bad guy and not really dead. That stuff he wrote about ruining MJ was SO creepy and evil---it HAD to be some kind of novel he was writing. A GRAPHIC novel, where the enemies are [shadow=blue:28h2evxx]out of this world, over the top, EVIL[/shadow:28h2evxx]. <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> And, what's with this secretly taping people???? Isn't that a creepy recurring theme with regard to MJ??????????? <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> (Glenda tapes <!-- salbino/ -->albino/<!-- salbino/ --> , Shmuley tapes <!-- salbino/ -->albino/<!-- salbino/ -->)
I tried to say I smelled a rat about this, before, but the thread got locked. more and more I regard this story as truth, less and less. (As in the movie, The sixth Sense":) I see (Faked) dead people...MORE than 2. <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14634&start=175#p254764 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14634&start=175#p254764)<!-- l -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14634&start=175#p253496 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14634&start=175#p253496)<!-- l -->
Just saying. Is anything we heard the last two years, TRUE? <!-- sfresse/ -->fresse/<!-- sfresse/ --> [/color][/b]
-
Yes I have a very hard time wrapping my brain around Chandler suicide on 11/5... a very hard time. This is one of the few events of the last 2 years that I have been completely unable to explain away in any manner, shape, or form. There is no logical answer, there is no rational explanation, it is completely and utterly mysterious to me...
-
Chandler killing himself makes sense if he felt guilty for his actions. Jermaine Jackson said something similar.
-
Chandler killing himself makes sense if he felt guilty for his actions. Jermaine Jackson said something similar.
Yes... but on 11/5? What's the chances...
-
Chandler killing himself makes sense if he felt guilty for his actions. Jermaine Jackson said something similar.
Yes... but on 11/5? What's the chances...
i don´t get you...what do you want to say?
-
Chandler killing himself makes sense if he felt guilty for his actions. Jermaine Jackson said something similar.
Yes... but on 11/5? What's the chances...
i don´t get you...what do you want to say?
What are the chances that Chandler, the one guy who you could finger point as being responsible for the chain reaction of events that caused Michael such misery for over a decade and led ultimately to the trial of his life where he was falsely accused of horrific crimes against children... have killed himself on V for Vendetta day?
That's insane. Just totally insane. 11/5 should mean little to anyone who isn't in MJ's corner. It's Vendetta day, not Guilty Conscience day. It's a massive mind fuck.
-
So, someone shot the guy? is that what you are saying?
Makes sense as well, but, who did it?
-
So, someone shot the guy? is that what you are saying?
Makes sense as well, but, who did it?
I guess that's a possibility... but why then? Why 16 years later? That doesn't make much sense either.
-
So, someone shot the guy? is that what you are saying?
Makes sense as well, but, who did it?
I guess that's a possibility... but why then? Why 16 years later? That doesn't make much sense either.
Well, it happened after MJ died pale/
-
So, someone shot the guy? is that what you are saying?
Makes sense as well, but, who did it?
I guess that's a possibility... but why then? Why 16 years later? That doesn't make much sense either.
Well, it happened after MJ died pale/
So? Who's looking at Chandler at that time? The deaders are all blaming Murray and AEG for Michael's "demise"... not ancient history Chandler.
-
We all know "what" killed MJ, and it was those child molesting accusations, all for the $$. However, I wonder if Chandler was really murdered, he commited suicide or if is also a hoax just to get out the public image.
Jordan chandler has not mannifested any feelings to the media regarding this.
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%205/MJmillion.jpg)
As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840 (http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840)}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277)}. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->
I know Michael Jackson is alive <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . But, <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// --> just suppose Evan Chandler was an agent of the illuminati, a goofball opportunist---like Judas betrayed Christ, chosen simply for his proximity to MJ.
Suppose he is alive and MJ is dead. Chandler reportedly had extensive plastic surgery and injections to his face...Does anyone know what he looked like while BOTH men were still living?
Suppose they were friends planning this hoax, as far back as 1990s. Chandler fancied himself a scriptwriter...Suppose he was tired of MJ outshining him in every <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> imaginable way.
Suppose MJ made certain they looked like enemies, so no one would expect them to be friends.
Suppose this was the way EC planned to REALLY finish MJ off, by double crossing him during his own hoax? What if there were a real Illuminati (or whatever) threats against MJ, a threat going to ruin the hoax, which was just a game up until that word came?
Suppose EC and MJ were in the car which came back to the home, which mysteriously, was out of sorts, all closed windows and no greeting from MJ, as always. They would both stay with a real FBI agent (Murray)which MJ had insisted upon as his "Dr." to everyone securing the house. EC is introduced and accepted as a friend and associate, assigned to another of the bedrooms.
Next day, MJ & EC are are acting out the propofol angle of the hoax story AT CHANDLER'S suggestion, in the "Dr.'s" room . It's not REALLY his room, as an FBI agent would not sleep on the job.
MJ never goes to bed in the regular room which fans lovingly watch until the light goes out, because he TRUSTINGLY excuses Murray to "take a potty break, EC is here with me..." and the rest is history; the light left on was to keep people outside ON that side of the house, so EC could get away from the other side through the secret hedge gate. EC REALLY slips MJ a fatal injection and Murray is none the wiser, until too late.
He is NOT a real doctor and has NO freakin' idea what to do...So he tries for a slim second, to locate EC who has vanished. If Murray were to offer explanation, it would have been, "appears to have been kidnapped, someone apparently thinking MJ was the agent, and TAKING EC as MJ". (when really, this is just fearful Murray's butt-covering story,) and,
ANYWAY, the most needful thing is NOT to find EC, but to SAVE MJ! EC got away scott free, and Murray never mentions that there was another man in the house, or he'll have to explain why he didn't secure the room, VERIFYING THAT THE CHEMICALS THEY WERE ACTING OUT WITH, WERE HARMLESS (before leaving a targeted man alone, even with his own MOTHER, let alone a "friend" he had just been introduced to)!! This is how people get assassinated, mostly, by someone INSIDE... The old SWITCHEROO on the rooms is such an old trick--clear back to the first royalty, but it was supposed to be part of MJ's scary thriller, HOAX, until MJ was double crossed AGAIN, by someone he had befriended and in whom he had misplaced his trust <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> .
True Jealous, Narcissistic Evil feels NO remorse, EVER! Such a dirty evil person would never kill HIMSELF. They are glory seekers.
However... The twisted Evil Chandler, HAS to make himself disappear, so that MJ's private real henchmen (those watchin' the LONE <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> FBI guy that was allowed for MJ's protection) don't come a lookin' for him, and TRULY rub him out. And, there is always that Murray might grow some intestinal fortitude, and come capture him to save his own butt...
The ONLY thing which kills a trail is death. Chandler must die. He knows WHICH day to die on, TOO, in order to let ALL MJ's fans know that HE killed MJ and HE (Chandler) is still alive, having hoaxed HIS death, and stolen MJ's thunder and lightning, as the Greatest Entertainer Who Ever Lived... Gunshot wounds to the head don't leave much, depending upon the weapon used. Who identified Senior Chandler's body? His estranged son or wife? They had NO idea what he looked like anymore! Can you believe what you read about this?? Probably some homeless guy EC promised a hot shower and a $100.00 bucks...Evil has no conscience.This is the REEEEEEALLY creepy thing: WHAT IF THIS ENTIRE HOAX and ( all the insiders, AND trolls) IS BEING RUN, ON SCHEDULE, so the family doesn't even know! BY REMOTE, By....................................... <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->
Evan Chandler <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
Ok. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> Just wanted to be scary. <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> NO murder theories hold water, especially as long as his entire family, especially Mom and kids are so exposed...
Michael Jackson <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> WROTE this <!-- salbino/ -->albino/<!-- salbino/ --> Thriller <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .
He wrote the bad guys and everything. He wrote a beginning, middle and end to his Hoax. He told us over and over about things to come, and this is some of it. He has to come back, and he wrote that, too. He knows his fans and knows how to push our buttons, especially!! We all know this. No one could have made "Michael", but MJ. No one could have made those videos but the REAL MJ. NO one could have written such an emotional rollercoaster cliffhanger, either!!! And NO ONE will be able to explain this entire thing for HISstory, but the one who documented everything himself...I can't imagine how he's going to shock the world, but, he wrote that, too!
Who's ALIVE? Who's BAD?
<!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ --> <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ --> <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ --> WHO ELSE <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
-
wishingstar wrote:
Hey guys....
I thought I'd post some thoughts here....there are some brilliant minds here. I need some help with this train of thought....hoping someone might jump on board, lol.
I have been thinking this Rupert Murdoch thing is bigger than all heck. It reaches into many different, dark corners of so-called journalism/media. You can google what he owns...it's astounding. Here a link to one site that lists many:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di (http://www.democraticunderground.com/di) ... 89x6021496
In the world of media...he can dominate. I have found that he is member of the Order of St. Gregory. a Catholic knighthood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_S) ... _the_Great
and might lose it:
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comment (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comment) ... rescinded/
It was in January 1998:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/acc (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/acc) ... +Catholics
Murdoch claims not to be very religious, however, his wife is catholic:
http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/ (http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/)
His current wife is interesting...he married her 17 days after his divorce from Anna......on June 25,1999.
Interesting:
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/ (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/) ... /Deng.html
Now, that all set the stage for my thought train:
1) I can't help but think there is a link to Tommy Mottola (Universal Music Group/Casablanca Records??)
2) Is the link to Mottola a bad one...or was Mottola onto something about Murdoch?
3) The knighthood thing is extremely interesting to me. There is talk of him being Jewish, being Catholic, not being anything. The Order of St. Gregory is interesting to read about:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/gregory.htm (http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/gregory.htm)
http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/st_gregory.html (http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/st_gregory.html)
4) Is there a link to some of the medals/ribbons that Michael wore during the trial...they are similar to the Order's medals...you can see it in above links.
5) Murdoch's News of the World is the one that published the deathbed picture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pECpNZ3bNk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pECpNZ3bNk)
6) Since when does a state thank a religion?
http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/pd (http://www.knightsofchristsmercy.com/pd) ... _Award.pdf
7) Here is my million dollar thought.....
Is there a link between Michael's accusations and Murdoch? In order to shed light away from the Catholic church's own scandals at the time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases)) did Murdoch knowingly set up Michael in the media and public's eyes? Was it for knighthood? A promise to the church? He certainly had the means to set him up....the church, the state, the media empire at his call. Was he the crux of it all? Did Murdoch enable the media to run with wild accusations about Michael?
Anyways....that's a start.
I have tried to summarize things here.....sorry for the long, rambling post.
I'd appreciate any feedback, thoughts...TS, that includes you! We all have different thoughts and opinions...it's only together that we are strong enough to face the adversity of belief. Being a beLIEver means more than just believing in a death hoax. It means you are in it for the long haul....believing in Michael and his family.
I wish you all nothing but the best blessings always!
LOVE
This is very interesting, I suspect that Mottola is responsible for these false accusations against Michael and a partnership with Murdoch to destroy it through the media is very possible. Last year someone make a good post about cases of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church and its relation to the case of Michael, .. that somewhere in this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_S) ... _the_Great
Rupert Murdoch 1998... this shows how rotten these "institutions"
[img=center:yo8n7o5t]http://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/humor/www.MessenTools.com-emoticones-humor-011.gif[/img]
-
Chandler killing himself makes sense if he felt guilty for his actions. Jermaine Jackson said something similar.
Yes... but on 11/5? What's the chances...
i don´t get you...what do you want to say?
What are the chances that Chandler, the one guy who you could finger point as being responsible for the chain reaction of events that caused Michael such misery for over a decade and led ultimately to the trial of his life where he was falsely accused of horrific crimes against children... have killed himself on V for Vendetta day?
That's insane. Just totally insane. 11/5 should mean little to anyone who isn't in MJ's corner. It's Vendetta day, not Guilty Conscience day...
I get what you're saying bec - we know there has been years of planning to tell this story. O Fortuna!!
-
"Its her" - you really don't need to use font size 2376, makes your posts unreadable. argue/
-
The font styles are different here from the styles on the old forum.
Which leads to unpredictable visual effects during technical conversion of the database.
It's not It's her's fault. It's just a technical "translation" issue between the html code of the old forum and the one used here.
Then there's 10 different browsers reading that code and at least 30 different browser variants (IE5, IE6, IE7, IE8, Mozilla 3.15, 3.16, 3.17, 3.18, 4.0, 5.0 etc.) All of them have tiny differences in interpreting the text codes of sites. Usually a programmer will focus on the most recent versions and not care to make everything fine for each and every browser version still simmering on the market. On cannot make a site fit for everybody. Impossible.
My conclusion: I rather have the text here in a "non-fit" text style than to have to switch back and forth between two boards to get the content right. Content beats form in this case. And it's NOT anybody's fault. Most important.
Blessings to all.
-
The font styles are different here from the styles on the old forum.
Which leads to unpredictable visual effects during technical conversion of the database.
It's not It's her's fault. It's just a technical "translation" issue between the html code of the old forum and the one used here.
Then there's 10 different browsers reading that code and at least 30 different browser variants (IE5, IE6, IE7, IE8, Mozilla 3.15, 3.16, 3.17, 3.18, 4.0, 5.0 etc.) All of them have tiny differences in interpreting the text codes of sites. Usually a programmer will focus on the most recent versions and not care to make everything fine for each and every browser version still simmering on the market. On cannot make a site fit for everybody. Impossible.
My conclusion: I rather have the text here in a "non-fit" text style than to have to switch back and forth between two boards to get the content right. Content beats form in this case. And it's NOT anybody's fault. Most important.
Blessings to all.
Thanks, Grace. Agree. I was in the process of posting the following when you posted:
"Its her" - you really don't need to use font size 2376, makes your posts unreadable. argue/
Hi, Sarah31. It seems that the huge font seen in some of the posts from the old forum (not just with Its her's posts) are a result of the transition from the old forum to the new. That said, using the font size feature on the tool bar in creation of new posts within this forum will result in reasonable, readable font within new posts. :)
-
So, someone shot the guy? is that what you are saying?
Makes sense as well, but, who did it?
I guess that's a possibility... but why then? Why 16 years later? That doesn't make much sense either.
Well, it happened after MJ died <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ -->
there was an article with a description of how he was found ( at the time don't know where you would find it now) and it was just kind of odd to me. and then not all that long after the peter lopez thing. that was a wierd deal also. perhaps if they were murdered it was simply because they knew the truth. afraid/ about who was behind all of the accusations and possibly the murder ( that they thought had been carried out).
-
Which leads to unpredictable visual effects during technical conversion of the database.
It's not It's her's fault.
Well, I thought she posted this one on the new forum and that it's not a converted post from the old one. But I've never really read her posts, because her 10 different font colors and 20 different font sizes and tons of smileys in her posts made them unreadable anyway. I would like to read them, but they just look too confusing.
-
So, someone shot the guy? is that what you are saying?
Makes sense as well, but, who did it?
I guess that's a possibility... but why then? Why 16 years later? That doesn't make much sense either.
Well, it happened after MJ died <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ -->
there was an article with a description of how he was found ( at the time don't know where you would find it now) and it was just kind of odd to me. and then not all that long after the peter lopez thing. that was a wierd deal also. perhaps if they were murdered it was simply because they knew the truth. afraid/ about who was behind all of the accusations and possibly the murder ( that they thought had been carried out).
I would believe they were silenced expect for, again, the 11/5 alleged suicide.
[In my mind] It only makes sense if this were a Hollywood movie. Face it. It's way out there on the coincidence scale. Way out in left field. Makes my mind just reel with the consequences of it.
-
TS said he would participate and not a fact
(http://smilies-gifs.com/preocupados/14preocupados.gif)
-
I was just thinking with all the things gone on with News of the World, I was rethinking TMZ's place in the hoax, I don't know if they are in the hoax or not but I just wanted to put out what I was thinking in theory though.
So of course this isn't murder, but if we are trying to debunk that, how would we say that TMZ are actually part of the hoax, if at all.
Some of us think TMZ is actually apart of the hoax since they announced MJ's death 6 minutes before, but could that of just be a coincidence?...remember when TMZ had an article that Charlie Sheen died but then quickly took it off, maybe that could be said with MJ, could they have just got lucky?
With News of the World and TMZ , they are both tabloids, and obviously don't really have the sense of the word 'morals' in my opinion. Yes they are a tabloid and tabloids do that, but why would MJ choose them, they only got more notoriety after announcing MJ's death, with all the stuff that they have done. I mean like, putting someone's last moments of their life online for people to listen to, for example what they did to Speedy, playing his last moments of his life for everyone to here...his family have to deal with all the things from the tragedies in his life to having his heartbreaking call played out in front of everyone.
I know that 911 calls are public but still, they made it so easily accessible.
Whoever announced MJ's death couldn't they have got notoriety?...did it have to be TMZ?
All the things TMZ has done you would think they are heartless enough to play a part in MJ's murder to make it look like a hoax, if someone did kill MJ, TMZ being the infamous tabloid they are, could of announced MJ's death before he died to make it look like a hoax (by whoever killed him) even though it was a murder...just think if you wanted something to look like a hoax you could easily get a tabloid to leave clues and all to make the hoax seem authentic, and what about what the family has said about TMZ e.g Joe Jackson...or even what they have said about the family e.g. Joe Jackson.
I just don't know if they are part of the hoax or not, and the non-believers would not believe TMZ is apart of the hoax because of their rep.
Again, that's my questions IF it was a murder.
-
Just wanted to fix my post...I wrote here instead of hear
I was just thinking with all the things gone on with News of the World, I was rethinking TMZ's place in the hoax, I don't know if they are in the hoax or not but I just wanted to put out what I was thinking in theory though.
So of course this isn't murder, but if we are trying to debunk that, how would we say that TMZ are actually part of the hoax, if at all.
Some of us think TMZ is actually apart of the hoax since they announced MJ's death 6 minutes before, but could that of just be a coincidence?...remember when TMZ had an article that Charlie Sheen died but then quickly took it off, maybe that could be said with MJ, could they have just got lucky?
With News of the World and TMZ , they are both tabloids, and obviously don't really have the sense of the word 'morals' in my opinion. Yes they are a tabloid and tabloids do that, but why would MJ choose them, they only got more notoriety after announcing MJ's death, with all the stuff that they have done. I mean like, putting someone's last moments of their life online for people to listen to, for example what they did to Speedy, playing his last moments of his life for everyone to hear...his family have to deal with all the things from the tragedies in his life to having his heartbreaking call played out in front of everyone.
I know that 911 calls are public but still, they made it so easily accessible.
Whoever announced MJ's death couldn't they have got notoriety?...did it have to be TMZ?
All the things TMZ has done you would think they are heartless enough to play a part in MJ's murder to make it look like a hoax, if someone did kill MJ, TMZ being the infamous tabloid they are, could of announced MJ's death before he died to make it look like a hoax (by whoever killed him) even though it was a murder...just think if you wanted something to look like a hoax you could easily get a tabloid to leave clues and all to make the hoax seem authentic, and what about what the family has said about TMZ e.g Joe Jackson...or even what they have said about the family e.g. Joe Jackson.
I just don't know if they are part of the hoax or not, and the non-believers would not believe TMZ is part of the hoax because of their rep.
Again, that's my questions IF it was a murder.
-
If it was a murder/ murder attempt:
- someone paid Murray to get rid of M
- Murray is in fact a very incompetent doctor who could not predict that a little of propofol could kill M
- M knew he was going to get murdered and he made a set up scenario and looked for protection
sloppy case :-[