Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Theories => References & Similarities => The Bible References => Topic started by: ~Souza~ on September 15, 2011, 08:53:49 PM

Title: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 15, 2011, 08:53:49 PM
I first wanted to post this in the BACK thread, where bec mentioned what we talked about, but I think it would be better to give it a seperate thread, because I don't want to cause distraction from Back's/Front's posts, even though it might all tie in, but then again, in the end everything on this forum should tie in.

First of all, I am far from Bible savvy. I know some of the books and scriptures, but not much more than I was taught at school by people who all had a different interpretation of it. The last couple of years I have been reading some more and have been trying to interpretate it in my own way, but I am at a point where my brain is fried and I would like to have imput from people from a different point of view, or maybe people with additions to my thoughts. I hope that not only religious people will participate, because I think (and that's in no way meant to be offensive) that if you have been brought up believing in something, it can be hard to step away from it and theorize different perspectives. I for one am someone who thinks that the Bible scriptures should not be taken as literally as some people do.

I am going to throw in some thoughts, and I am not saying I totally believe in them all, but some things do make sense and I would like to see other's opinion on them, since I can't seem to find many people on the net who had the same theories. 

Again, I am not a Bible savvy and if anything in this post offends anyone's beliefs, please know that that is in no way my intention. This is more a new mindspin after my post about Michael and the age of aquarius ( http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14414.0.html ).

Since the Ark of the Covenant was discussed many times and redirected to by TS, I started there. I had been reading up on it over a year ago, but due to any understanding of the Bible, plus some issues with the site/forum that I won't further discuss, I had put it aside to look at later on. It wasn't until someone in a thread mentioned it, that I thought about checking it again.

For those who do not know what the ark of the covenant is, here is a short description from wikipedia:

Quote
Construction and description

According to the Book of Exodus, God instructed Moses on Mount Sinai during his 40 day stay upon the mountain within the thick cloud and darkness where God was (Ex. 19:20; 24:18) and he was shown the pattern for the tabernacle and furnishings of the Ark to be made of shittim-wood to house the Tablets of Stone. Moses instructed Bezalel and Oholiab to construct the Ark (Exodus 31). [11]
The Book of Exodus gives detailed instructions on how the Ark is to be constructed. It is to be 2½ cubits in length, 1½ in breadth, and 1½ in height (as 21⁄2×11⁄2×11⁄2 royal cubits or 1.31×0.79×0.79 m). Then it is to be plated entirely with gold, and a crown or molding of gold is to be put around it. Four rings of gold are to be attached—two on each side—and through these rings staves of shittim-wood overlaid with gold for carrying the Ark are to be inserted; and these are not to be removed. A golden cover, adorned with golden cherubim, is to be placed above the Ark. The Ark is finally to be placed behind a veil (Parochet), a full description of which is also given.[12]

The ark is believed to resurface at the end of times.

Quote from: TS
Are you aware the three major religious systems in the world (Jews, Muslims, and Christians) all expect the Ark of the Covenant to resurface, near the end of time? The Jews are expecting to get the Ark again, in connection with rebuilding their temple in Jerusalem near the end of time. “Muslims believe that it will be found by Mahdi near the end of times from Lake Tiberias”

I happen to believe that we are indeed nearing the end of the world/age. I have no idea what that will mean, but I tend to believe that it means that we will go into a new age, like Jesus said "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age". There are different translations, some say 'world', others say 'time' or 'age', with age allegedly being the right translation of the original word 'aon'. (Matthew 28:20)

Possibly, there have been other messiahs before Jesus. Possibly, there have been more prophets, and end of times. Jesus represents the age of pisces, we are now entering the age of aquarius. Maybe these messiahs are sent by God to guide people through the ages. If that's true, we are at the end of Jesus' age, and we will have a new messiah guiding us through the new age of aquarius. This is what I believe, although I have no clue how or why.

Anyways, let's say this is indeed the case. Bare with me, because this is flying through my head as many dots that I can't seem to connect, so if I don't make sense, let me know and I'll try it again.

There is a number which most of you will know as the golden ratio, or PHI (The Fibonacci Sequence, related to the number PI (3.14.....). Many things in nature are made according this ratio: flowers, waves, measurements of the human body etc.:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkGeOWYOFoA[/youtube]

We also know the measurements of the Ark of the Covenant:  2½ cubits in length, 1½ in breadth. This gives us a ratio close to phi (which is 1.618..., but not exactly: 2.5/1.5=1.666...

There is also something that should sound familiar that I thought of after reading up on the Ark of the Covenant:

For forty days and for forty nights
The law was on her side
But who can stand when she's in demand
Her schemes and plans


It made me look at the Billie Jean lyrics in a totally different way. I am not saying that there is a reference to the 40 days and nights of Moses on Mount Sinai, but we all know that Michael probably knew the whole Bible by heart at a young age already, so I can't imagine him being unaware of it. Plus the opening chords of Billie Jean are according to The Fibonacci Sequence

What I am trying to say, is that the thought occured to me, that the story of Moses receiving the ten commandments on Mount Sinai from God, might not be true. That ark doesn't make sense to me. Let's say that chest, as people believe it to be, would resurface at the end of times, who in the world would just believe like that that it comes from God, that it is the real Ark? It seems not possible to me when the Ark is indeed an object like that.

Back to what TS said:

Quote from: TS
Few if any objects in the history of mankind have been regarded with more sacredness and mystery, than the Ark of the Covenant. And surely if there is any object on planet earth that God can and will control at the end of time, it is the Ark of the Covenant. But the devil knows this, so he will have one or more counterfeit arks to confuse people. Then if we want to be on the right side of the final battle between good and evil: we must STUDY the true Ark, and know it so well that none of the counterfeits will lead us astray.

Maybe God was naive and didn't foresee that mankind would become smart enough to reproduce something like that, even to the extent that it could appear to be magical or even divine. But as we can read in Revelation, it was already said that knowledge would increase when the end of time would be near, so that doesn't make sense. Which makes me think that there could be a possibility that Moses was not on Mount Sinai, but with Satan, or Lucifer the fallen angel. Moses received those tablets approx. 1250-1300 BC, which seems a little late to me, since mankind exsisted way before that. Those ten commandments must have been there before. Reminder: this is all just hypothetical and theory, my head is just trying to make sense of all this and I hope there are Bible savvys here that can help me out.

Was the ark made by Moses one of those counterfeit arks to confuse people? Was Moses deceived? Or is that whole story added to the Bible with the attention to confuse people, making them think that that will be the true ark when it surfaces? I am not saying that the whole Bible is a lie, I am trying to make sense of it. God can't control what people add to the Bible or not. If tomorrow they will find a 'new' ancient prophecy, they will add it to the Bible, making you believe that it is something you should live by.

Quote from: TS
By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?

Another possibility could be that it was a deliberate lie to deceive Satan. If Satan would think that the Ark of the Covenant was like that, he would make fake arks that indeed would be in striking contrast to the real ark.

I do think that for those who look and seek for the truth, will be able to see it in the Bible. I found a YouTube in an old thread that pointed out the 7's in the first verse of the Bible, showing how 7 is the key.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4&feature=related[/youtube]

When you look at all the 7's in Mike's life, it seems to be too much of a coincidence, and they were not things he could have controlled himself. The ark is supposed to resurface at the end of times, what if the ark is not an object, but a person? Someone chosen by God to bring a message of peace, to gather the servants of God before the end of time? If it has to play a role in the final battle, it would make more sense that the ark is a person, rather than an object. Unless of course there is something else in that chest that will shock the world, but I have no idea what that could be.

If I understood the Book of Revelation well, and everything I read about it, there will be a period of 7 years before the actual end, whatever that may mean. It is called the 70th week of Daniel. I understood that 7 years prior to the start of this 70th week, the world would receive a warning. Please correct me if I am wrong here, because like I already said: my head is spinning with all this and this isn't my area of expertise and I am trying to type this without rereading everything i read the past weeks, so if I am wrong in what I remembered, correct me. The 70th week of Daniel, before Judgement day, will begin with 1260 days where the harlot ( http://endtimepilgrim.org/harlot.htm ) will rule. After those 1260 days, we will have 1290 days where Satan will rule, before he will be banned for 1,000 years by God, which is already certain, since God controls Satan and will only let him go as far as God allows him to. In those 1260 + 1290 days, humanity will have to make a choice: either you join the good camp and be saved, or join the bad camp and you will be sent along with Satan. The final and ultimate test for humanity.

As we are near the end of times, which is very obvious when you see many things from the Book of Revelation actually happen, I tried to search when that 70th week might begin. Calculations say (and I did not check, just remember reading it somewhere), that those 1260 + 1290 days means 86 new moons between Tishrei and Tishrei 7 years later (7th month of the year in Hebrew calendar), instead of 87 moons. There are 86 moons between Tishrei this year and Tishrei 2018, and there are also 86 moons between Tishrei 2014 and 2021. But 7 years prior to this year (2004) we had a huge warning; the seaquake in Indonesia. I couldn't find anything of that magnitude in 2007. Tishrei this year starts at September 29th with The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShana on 9/29 - 9/30), the first of the fall feasts, the other two being Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur on October 8) and Feast of Tabernacles/Festival of Booths (Sukkot, which is the 7th feast in the 7th month which will last 7 days from October 13-19, 2011). This website says that those fall feasts are the ones that yet have to be fulfilled at the end of times: http://endtimepilgrim.org/7feasts.htm

Quote
The Meaning of Rosh HaShanah

Rosh HaShanah literally means “Head of the Year” in Hebrew. It falls in the month of Tishrei, which is the seventh month on the Hebrew calendar. The reason for this is because the Hebrew calendar begins with the month of Nissan (when it's believed the Jews were freed from slavery in Egypt) but the month of Tishrei is believed to be the month in which God created the world. Hence, another way to think about Rosh HaShanah is as the birthday of the world.

Rosh HaShanah is observed on the first two days of Tishrei. Jewish tradition teaches that during the High Holy Days God decides who will live and who will die during the coming year. As a result, during Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur (and in the days leading up to them) Jews embark upon the serious task of examining their lives and repenting for any wrongs they have committed during the previous year. This process of repentance is called teshuvah. Jews are encouraged to make amends with anyone they have wronged and to make plans for improving during the coming year. In this way, Rosh HaShanah is all about making peace in the community and striving to be a better person.

Even though the theme of Rosh HaShanah is life and death, it is a holiday filled with hope for the New Year. Jews believe that God is compassionate and just, and that God will accept their prayers for forgiveness.
http://judaism.about.com/od/holidays/a/roshhashanah.htm

Quote
Yom Kippur - Day of Atonement:

Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement is the most solemn and important holy day of the Jewish calendar. In the Old Testament, the Day of Atonement was the day the High Priest made an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the people. This act of atonement brought reconciliation between the people and God. After the blood sacrifice was offered to the Lord, a goat was released into the wilderness to symbolically carry away the sins of the people. This "scapegoat" was never to return.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefeastsandholidays/p/dayofatonement.htm

Quote
Sukkot - Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths:

Sukkot or the Feast of Tabernacles is a week-long fall festival commemorating the 40-year journey of the Israelites in the wilderness. It is one of the three great pilgrimage feasts recorded in the Bible when all Jewish males were required to appear before the Lord in the Temple in Jerusalem. The word Sukkot means "booths." Throughout the holiday, Jews continue to observe this time by building and dwelling in temporary shelters, just like the Hebrew people did while wandering in the desert. This joyous celebration is a reminder of God's protection, provision, and faithfulness.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefeastsandholidays/p/feastofbooths.htm

I found these feasts interesting when you think that both the trial (examining of wrongdoing, scapegoat) and the tribute (40 years after first solo single) are at the same time as these feasts, but I can not really make anything more of this, just throwing that in.

So, in short, and whatever theory might be true, I really believe Michael has a special purpose on earth, I really believe that he will play a big role in the end of time. And I do not say this because I want to put pressure on his shoulder, I simply really believe it. If there is anyone on earth that could be an instrument of God, it would be him. There is not a soul in the world who does not know him. I do not believe Jesus will return. He was a man of flesh and blood and therefore it is scientifically impossible for him to return in person. That doesn't mean the Messiah can not return as someone else. Messiah means the anointed one: To anoint is to pour or smear with perfumed oil, milk, water, melted butter or other substances, a process employed ritually by many religions. I can't help but thinking about what Timor and others were saying back in 2009; that the could smell his perfume before they even noticed him.

Well, that and other stuff has been running back and forth through my mind and I would like to see your thoughts. Am I going too far? Possible, but we should think outside the box right? And as strange it might sound, some of this all makes perfect sense to me.

There was more, but as you can see I have already difficulties putting this all together, so I am on overload at the moment. Maybe it will come up/back in the discussion, or maybe bec can fill me in, since I threw all this even less organized at her on Skype. I am sorry if I didn't make sense, I really tried :lol:

Lastly, I found this interesting post/thread/discussion on the David Icke forum,about the black ethiopians being the true biblical jews. Maybe something to take along in the discussion: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=18093



Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on September 15, 2011, 09:05:41 PM
Quote
  Quote from: TS <blockquote>By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?</blockquote>

 
Well, somebody remembered that  the day June 25 media spoke of the ark but the news  not transcend  that all we were attentive to the "death of Michael "? suspicious//
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: skyways on September 15, 2011, 09:08:45 PM
WOW, Souza!!
 
CLEAR Structure always get Vision focused@@
 
THANX again for your delightful sense of observation, hosting and hospitality! bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 15, 2011, 09:35:53 PM
Souza thankyou.  I had a lot of the same thoughts.  I was also thinking that Michael will be there at the end times and that there were different messiahs/prophets for different ages.  There is a new age coming so a new messiah/prophet coming.  Also religious prophecies, science, and current events including this hoax seem to be coming together.  It is almost mindblowing how things are coming together.   
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: bec on September 15, 2011, 09:40:40 PM
Quote
It made me look at the Billie Jean lyrics in a totally different way. I am not saying that there is a reference to the 40 days and nights of Moses on Mount Sinai, but we all know that Michael probably knew the whole Bible by heart at a young age already, so I can't imagine him being unaware of it. Plus the opening chords of Billie Jean are according to The Fibonacci Sequence


Yes and Michael has frequently stated on record that the song Billy Jean came to him from God, that he did not write it, he simply channeled it, MJ was simply the messenger of this song that came directly from God.


Makes 100% crystal clear sense to me. You all know I'm an atheist. I have no idea how to rectify these thoughts and feelings in my head but I'll deal with that later. Right now I go with logic and logic dictates to me that Michael is the second coming. I've felt that way for awhile.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 15, 2011, 09:44:44 PM
Hi Souza,i am happy you opened this thread.Let me start by saying that i am not familiar with the bible ,but i was raised by a christian mother and grandmother.I agree we are definitely in the end times.I have been doing a lot of research lately,concerning the m.j hoax and the n.w.o.I have just like you, been thinking about Micheal and his role with the end of times theory,and i truly believe that he is a messenger for God.There are just so many things that i have noticed about Michael that seems so God like.When you think about it satan has his messengers too,mainly the goverment,and most of the entertainment industry,so of course God could choose someone as big as Michael to be his messenger.I believe this hoax was done for many reasons.When i read some of T.S posts,about Michael doing this to reverse the 666 pyramid system,i got a eery feeling that something very deep is about to go down.If you watch the news or go on youtube you will notice that a lot of propaganda is being shoved down our throats.They have been brainwashing the masses for so long,who knows what to believe.Remember Michael wanted to warn us,when he said we have four years,his message was very important,but he never got the chance.Im off to do more research.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on September 15, 2011, 10:52:27 PM
Hi everyone,

I am posting this just to give another perspective, but I will do my best to do this humbly and with love and compassion.  It is the choice of everyone to believe whatever they want to believe at the end of the day.  Love to all!

There are some interesting perspectives on the End Times here.  I have to say, I have not thought about all of these perspectives before, so it is interesting to read them. 

I come from a literal Bible interpretation mindset, and a lot of fundamentalist Biblical teachers believe in some sort of Rapture of believers in Christ either right before the 7 years Tribulation period that Revelation speaks of or during (some also think it will take place after the 7 years).  I say this because I have been reading about the 7 day theory (and still learning so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge there).  I am not sure how this fits into the 7 years of Tribulation but I can't get it out of my mind that the 7 day theory has something to do with the Tribulation period.  Forgive me if I am totally off base on that  :-[ but just putting it out there as I can't seem to shake the feeling that there may be parallels here.  The other thing is that many fundamental Christian people believe that the Rapture is right before the Tribulation, which will be 7 years long, and that the Rapture is there so that Christ raptures (or takes His people) to Heaven with Him while the Tribulation occurs (1 Thessalonians 4 16 to 5 11).  This is interesting because according to this doctrine, Christ comes to take His followers away to Heaven and keep them out of the 'wrath to come' for the 7 year period (1 Thessalonians 5 9).  After the 7 year period, Christ comes with His followers back to set up His own Kingdom (Revelation 20).

The Bible also speaks of Christ's second coming in the clouds, where EVERYONE on Earth sees Him (Matthew 24 36 and Luke 21 25-28).  (Therefore, I do not think Mike is the Messiah; however, I have said before and will say again, that I think Mike has an important part to play in where we are heading (End Times Events).  I am not sure what that is yet, so I guess we all just have to wait and see.   ;)

I do believe that the Ark of the Covenant is important, and I do believe in a literal Ark which is supposed to house the original 10 commandments given to Moses, the rod of Aaron, a jar of manna, among maybe some other things (if I recall correctly).  I think there will be counterfeits to this Ark, especially from the Illuminati/NWO people (whatever you want to call these people who are doing Satan's bidding).  I have a strong gut feeling that these people have plans for the Ark that is important for the Antichrist to set up shop, as Satan really likes to counterfeit anything God is doing.

Anyways, that is all I have tonight.  I may have more thoughts later. 

Blessings and love.

Edit: just had a thought: maybe the Rapture parallel is a type of 'hiding'.  Christ's believers hiding away, similar to Mike's hiding away for the time being. 

Also wanted to add that this 7 year time of being taken up to Heaven (rapture) is in parallel to the 7 day Jewish wedding week.  Sorry I forgot to add that in my original post  :-[
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 15, 2011, 11:29:00 PM
There's a LOT to take in there...especially for anyone who hasn't yet 'entertained' the idea.  My perspective, overall, is in line with what Souza posted...there were a couple of things I'm 'iffy' on (or at least can see where others might try to poke holes at)...but the general 'gist' is in line with mine.  I'm sure I will contribute more to this thread because this 'theory' fascinates me and I am completely open to it.
 
On the other hand...it is THIS theory, out of all other theories...that 'scares' me the most.  Not because I'm scared of God...but because I've seen the devil and what he can do.  I know we should not fear...but if true, how could you not be somewhat worried about taking THIS leap of faith?  Am I strong enough...and smart enough...to KNOW a false ark when I see one?  Scholars...who are wayyyy above my knowledge-grade...can't even agree on what it looks like.  There will be false ones...we know that.  How can we tell the difference?  My heart is 100% with God...but what if I f*ck up and fall for the wrong one?  Just some of my regular thoughts...brought to the forefront by Souza's post.
 
I WANT to believe in this theory...I WANT to believe that God sent us a messenger to lead us in the end times, which I believe we are in...and with every ounce of my being, I WANT that messenger to be Michael.  But I'm not 100% sure that that's what's happening...because none of us have proof (how do we even evaluate the proof when it hits us?)...not to mention it would take EPIC to a whole new level.  That's a bit scary, isn't it?
 
One thing that always sticks with me whenever I start to 'oscillate' ...is the scene of Smooth Criminal in TII, when Kenny asks Mike "how will you know when the marquee changes?...and Mike replies with "I'll just feel it". 
 
I trust that God will make me 'feel' it when the true Ark presents itself...whatever or whoever it is.  If I don't feel it...and get fooled by a fake one instead...then I wasn't worthy to receive it.
 
Gonna go talk to God now...try to make some amends---try to get him to see the 'logic' of why I did some things I did lol...and pray that I'm in the right Army.  My heart tells me I am.
 

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: RK on September 16, 2011, 12:38:05 AM
I don't think I can do justice to this topic with a decent reply, but there are a  few thoughts concerning the ark of the covenant that I have. The old testatment scriptures hold shadows and types of the new testament fullments.

The New is in the Old contained
The Old is in the New explained
The New is in the Old concealed
The Old is in the New revealed
The New is in the Old enfolded
The Old is in the New unfolded.


The old testament has some divine cameos. Definition of a cameo is a gem having two layers, with a figure carved in one layer so that it is raised on a background of the other. God often asked men to do typically what he would fullfill actually. Abraham offering Isaac is a picture of God offering his Son Jesus, to redeem or rescue humanity.
The ark of the covenant that contained God's presence, is a representation of the true ark or carrier of the presence of God, Jesus. Jesus is the door through which a person can enter and also become that container or true ark of God's presence. God doesn't  live in church buildings or structures, He is Spirit and through the indwelling of the Spirit of God, He writes his commands of love on the real tablets of stone. Our hardened hearts, which are then transformed to become soft and tender . The old testatment picture of this is when King David brought back the ark and it resided in a tabernacle or tent. Tents are symbolic types or pictures of our earthly bodies, the temporary house our eternal spirit lives in since death came into the picture.

Adam and Eve blew it big time. The dominion and perfection they were originally meant to walk in was stripped from them and handed to a usurper named lucifer. The human race has been powerless to get back our lost inheritance until one stronger than the evil one clothed himself with the veil or tent of humanity and took the keys of death and hell from him.
So there remains some of this inheritance that is still to be recieved for human kind. That means everything Adam was robbed of. And the whole creation is included in that.
Romans 8:18~
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in US.
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly awaits for the revealing of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope'
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
And not only they, but we also, who have the the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly awaiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

This is not pie in the sky when we die. This is about the here and soon to be now. God is going to have a company of people here on earth that will be his temple, the true ark, made of living stones [people] for him to inhabit by his Spirit. And the invitation still goes out to all who will hear. Revelations22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say "Come!"
So...Michael a messenger? definitely....Michael a new messiah? What if we are all presented with the opportunity to be vessels that carry  the fullness of God's presence while still walking  on this earth. Doing greater works than Jesus. The bible says we will. The bible calls this company of people  the manchild, the overcomers, the sons of God. There is no other door in my understanding in departing from the old slavery we were sold into by Adam's fall other than the door to the new creation birth through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Anyhow, this is my attempt at a simple explanation of what I believe to be the true ark of God. If you think I've totally lost it, you can blame my 4 lost years in the 70's, pre-christianity days that were fuelled with many many hallucinogenic drug takings.  :?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MJonmind on September 16, 2011, 01:08:34 AM
Good to see this HUGE topic open for discussion, though SO controversial!

BeTheChange, I understand your dilemna, what if Michael is being used by the Devil to deceive the world as Rev. says. Well, it seems that it will be every man for himself in those last moments/days. And the irony is if proponents of Michael as Messiah are correct, then the whole Christian world by the 2 billion (I think) are looking in a totally different direction and would outright reject the notion if told about Michael. This very talk would be considered most blasphemous. This all tells me God has a "wicked" sense of humor. And why not-- dare we put God in a box?

Quote
Souza
Possibly, there have been other messiahs before Jesus. Possibly, there have been more prophets, and end of times. Jesus represents the age of pisces, we are now entering the age of aquarius. Maybe these messiahs are sent by God to guide people through the ages. If that's true, we are at the end of Jesus' age, and we will have a new messiah guiding us through the new age of aquarius. This is what I believe, although I have no clue how or why.


I've said it lots already that I believe also that Michael will be the new fulfillment of the Messianic return. I was born and raised in Bible culture, but 12 or so years ago re-examined everything, mostly through the internet, and my journey led me to here, almost like following a trail of crumbs.  I always felt it was God guiding me (though I'm sure others would question that  ;)  just my perspective).

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Souza
Another possibility could be that it was a deliberate lie to deceive Satan. If Satan would think that the Ark of the Covenant was like that, he would make fake arks that indeed would be in striking contrast to the real ark.

I came to believe that God has been doing some hoaxing of his own. There are some twists, lies, "pranks", in the overall stories and overall plan. Because it's all a grand drama on God's stage with many unexpected surprises. There is no one who can guess how Michael's hoax is going to play except him, and no one can predict how God's story is going to turn out. Revelation is like His 'TS posts', guiding us, but all the while some unexpected things will happen and humans understanding and love will be tested. Even the supposed threat of hell plays into it.

Even if most would believe Michael is deceived and wrong, he himself clearly believes he is on par with Jesus and is the new current replacement.

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Back
In the separation of major tIME factions in our planetary HiStory, specifically Birth of Christ (BC) To nearly 2009 years post his physical exit (AD), there's only one other Worldly figure that has been bestowed the powers to reach EVERY corner of the globe. And that Heavenly Gift was the Incomparable Michael Jackson.

2+5, The days of Christ and Michael.

Although many other Great Worldly figures, ranging from Martin to Mother Teresa, have graced this Earth with soul driven purposes that have benefited humanity, there have ONLY been two who have been subjected to literal crucifixions; before, during and after their deaths. And even in the face of these crucifixions, they both maintained hearts filled with love, sensitivity and care for all man/woman-kind. They carried rare emotional connections to and concerns for every single poor and sick person on the planet; Especially the children. They were in-tune with the necessary nurturance that this magnificent creation we inhabit requires for survival. They both never stopped giving and wanting to give more! They even carried compassion and hope for those who were consumed with evil and sought to do them both harm. An EXTREME rarity!

Christ was the savior of lives once as a physical being
So too was Michael Jackson....

Arms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same
.

Finally, what my husband always argues when I say this about Michael, what about the promise that Jesus in the Bible gave to return to earth, to fulfill Scripture.
There is a slight difficulty Christians have had understanding and explaining away certain words Jesus said about this. Souza you said, "I do not believe Jesus will return."  I second that. (and the original Jesus was black-skinned. Plus I agree with your statement that the Ethiopian Jews are closer to the real Israelites than the Jews today but that's another huge twist to the HIStory--fascinating). These are the verses where Jesus talks about how his return will be in the generation of those he is talking to.

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Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

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Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

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Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Now the whole 24th chapter is Jesus explaining the end times starting with the temple being destroyed. And almost 40 years later the temple was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans, and pretty much everything else was fulfilled during those terrible times. This belief is called Preterism, although critics say that Christ didn't return. The historical ways things were fulfilled then is a fascinating study in itself.

Then there are passages in which Jesus says he is coming quickly, which in fairness could mean suddenly.

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Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


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Revelation 22:20
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.


The Apostle Paul also taught that Christ's return was imminent/any time, that believers should not even get tied down with things the things of the world.
There are so many variations of interpretations on end time teaching and how they might correlate to modern happenings. Modern Christian theologians spend huge amounts of time putting out their elaborate interpetations of how end times will play out, but it is now 2011. All through these centuries Christians have thought their political/social circumstances were a fullfillment of Biblical prophecy.

There was a lot of excellent information on some of the old threads that relate to Michael's Messiah role.  I know people are probably entrenched in whatever beliefs they have, so I'm not trying to convince anyone of my views. I believe God puts His thoughts in people's minds, and takes the veils away/opens minds when He chooses according to His time-table.

And yes, these are very exciting days, but there could definately be some terrible days ahead. The Ark being announced to be revealed the day before Michael's "death" has always been a huge clue to me. The Ark of the Covenant is also a picture of the Christ. Thus when the Priest announced it --Michael the Christ is being proclaimed to all who are paying attention.  This is such a massive, important topic with so much that could be delved into. These are my thoughts for now!

My love and respect to all!
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ForstAMoon on September 16, 2011, 02:39:13 AM
Excellent topic!

I have recently discussed with my friend the end of time era and how the recent events in the world might fit into that.
I am not prepared to discuss it from numbers/years perspective, but just as rather big picture view.

We came to the conclusion, still theory-wise, that maybe it is not only the natural disaster that is the sign of end of times. Earthquake, tsunami, heavy rains, animal massive deaths.

But what about the financial crisis, that, in my opinion, is bringing the whole so called western world down one way or another?

and what is the cause of all of this: in my opinion GREED and moreover PRIDE.

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Some say that sin of pride is the sin of all sins, it is just the origin for all evil.

see the link that provides good summary here http://www.allaboutgod.com/sin-of-pride.htm

The so-called western world and western society started to believe that they rule the world. Disasters do not ring a bell or influance their behaviour in the positive way. On contrary - they turn everything into money. More money. More mammon. 

I also remember TS saying this:

"4-19. Stock Market Bottom on 3-6: 666!Several people wondered what the stock market redirects had to do with MJ and the hoax.  Some recognized that it had to do with the NWO generating the recession, in order to get the money out of the hands of the general public; and this is true, but that is not the only reason for these redirects.Those who read TIAI Revealed, Part 9 {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1933&p=27592#p27592 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1933&p=27592#p27592)}, may have understood at least some of the other reasons for the economy redirects.  Very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14).  The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).  Here is another verse, which connects 666 with money: “Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold” (1 Kings 10:14; see 2 Chronicles 9:13).The USA has the largest economy in the world, and the S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215)}?  The S&P 500 hit a low of 666 on 3-6 (three 6’s) {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d (http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d)}. This was the bottom point in the worst recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation).Was it a coincidence, that the bottom was 666 on 3-6?  No, I’m going to show you that it was the hand of God.  The devil and the NWO powers were trying to destroy the economy; and God allowed it—that is, until reaching 666, to show that it was the powers of evil doing it (and also to warn about that the mark of the beast).  Then God said enough is enough, and stepped in to turn things around."
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: SimPattyK on September 16, 2011, 02:51:03 AM
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[...]I do believe that the Ark of the Covenant is important, and I do believe in a literal Ark which is supposed to house the original 10 commandments given to Moses, the rod of Aaron [...]
^^ I am doing a research on this ^^ in relation to MJ & Elvis Aaron PRIEST-ly! I will come back... later... with more details...

And the numerology of 7 is a MAJOR  link too!
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 16, 2011, 03:52:52 AM
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  Quote from: TS <blockquote>By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?</blockquote>

 
Well, somebody remembered that  the day June 25 media spoke of the ark but the news  not transcend  that all we were attentive to the "death of Michael "? suspicious//
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Quote from: Sarahli
In the Quran it is mentionned:
[2:248] Their prophet said to them, "The sign of his kingship is that the Ark of the Covenant will be restored to you, bringing assurances from your Lord, and relics left by the people of Moses and the people of Aaron. It will be carried by the angels. This should be a convincing sign for you, if you are really believers."

It is in reference of the story of Saul, him being chosen by God to be King and this same history is narrated in the Bible's Book of I Samuel, Ch. 9 and 10.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Samuel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Samuel)

TS said in the update that muslims were also waiting for the Ark to be discovered by "Mahdi", I just wanted to say that "Mahdi" is not mentionned in the Quran so I take this information with grand reserve.

"On 25 June 2009, the patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia, Abuna Paulos, said he would announce to the world the next day the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, which he said had been kept safe and secure in a church in Axum, Ethiopia. The following day, on 26 June 2009, the patriarch announced that he would not unveil the Ark after all, but that instead he could attest to its current status."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the ... dox_Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant#Ethiopian_Orthodox_Church)

I don't understand. If it has really been discovered why decide to keep it secret after having thrown the information that an announcement would be made about it ? And the date of 25 June 2009 is very intriguing. What a "coincidence" !

When you begin to search for the Ark you realize that it can be everywhere in the world, so many theories are on the internet that I really don't know what to think about it anymore.

TS also said "When the time is right, there will be further information about the Ark of the Covenant." I'm impatient to know more about it, this subject is very interesting and TS seems to know more.

Here is my thoughts and theories on the unveiling (hype) of THE ARK...
News articles to the world.


It is called deception... the evil one (devil, satan) who roams this earth to deceive and destroy and FOOL God's people, leading them astray and away from God (if he can) and even just people in general into believing that the ARK a man made article, (bobble) would give them the info they need.

Which is the devil's Job, lol

When in fact I believe the "true ARK" is as written below. (See Revelation reference). It is not in some false IDOL box but in the heavens with God himself and in his word.

According to the Book of Revelation, the Ark is in the Temple of God in Heaven in vision: "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the Ark of his Covenant" (Rev. 11:19 NIV).

My theory is this that on June 25 2009 The Church was going to unviel a GREAT DECEPTION upon the world to deceive them into thinking they had to worship a golden box..lol

When ArchAngel Michael  "died" on the same day, he is a "positive light" counteracting the "negative" that was about to deceive. When Michael "died" on the same day, No one paid attention to the false Idol and was consumed by The ArchAngel Michael, who is in MY opinion the Seventh Angel warning us of the end times.

He counteracted falseness with truth and opened up the seventh seals of knowledge.


Revelation 5:1 (Amplified Bible)
Revelation 5
 1 AND I saw lying on the open hand of Him Who was seated on the throne a scroll (book) written within and on the back, closed and sealed with seven seals;

Revelation 11 (Amplified Bible)
Revelation 11
 1 A REED [as a measuring rod] was then given to me, [shaped] like a staff, and I was told: Rise up and measure the sanctuary of God and the altar [of incense], and [number] those who worship there.
   
2 But leave out of your measuring the court outside the sanctuary of God; omit that, for it is given over to the Gentiles (the nations), and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months (three and one-half years).

    3 And I will grant the power of prophecy to My two witnesses for 1,260 (42 months; three and one-half years), dressed in sackcloth.

    4 These [witnesses] are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth.

    5 And if anyone attempts to injure them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their enemies; if anyone should attempt to harm them, thus he is doomed to be slain. [II Kings 1:10; Jer. 5:14.]

    6 These [two witnesses] have power to shut up the sky, so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying (their prediction of events relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph); and they also have power to turn the waters into blood and to smite and scourge the earth with all manner of plagues as often as they choose.

    7 But when they have finished their testimony and their evidence is all in, the beast (monster) that comes up out of the Abyss (bottomless pit) will wage war on them, and conquer them and kill them.

    8 And their dead bodies [will lie exposed] in the open street [(a public square) of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called [by the mystical and allegorical names of] Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    9 For three and a half days men from the races and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and will not allow them to be put in a tomb.

    10 And those who dwell on the earth will gloat and exult over them and rejoice exceedingly, taking their ease and sending presents [in congratulation] to one another, because these two prophets had been such a vexation and trouble and torment to all the dwellers on the earth.

    11 But after three and a half days, by God's gift the breath of life again entered into them, and they rose up on their feet, and great dread and terror fell on those who watched them.

    12 Then [the two witnesses] heard a strong voice from heaven calling to them, Come up here! And before the very eyes of their enemies they ascended into heaven in a cloud. [II Kings 2:11.]

    13 And at that [very] hour there was a tremendous earthquake and one tenth of the city was destroyed (fell); seven thousand people perished in the earthquake, and those who remained were filled with dread and terror and were awe-struck, and they glorified the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe (calamity) has passed; now the third woe is speedily to come.

    15 The seventh angel then blew [his] trumpet, and there were mighty voices in heaven, shouting, The dominion (kingdom, sovereignty, rule) of the world has now come into the possession and become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ (the Messiah), and He shall reign forever and ever (for the eternities of the eternities)!

    16 Then the twenty-four elders [of the heavenly Sanhedrin], who sit on their thrones before God, prostrated themselves before Him and worshiped,

    17 Exclaiming, To You we give thanks, Lord God Omnipotent, [the One] Who is and [ever] was, for assuming the high sovereignty and the great power that are Yours and for beginning to reign.

    18 And the heathen (the nations) raged, but Your wrath (retribution, indignation) came, the time when the dead will be judged and Your servants the prophets and saints rewarded--and those who revere (fear) Your name, both low and high and small and great--and [the time] for destroying the corrupters of the earth.

    19 Then the sanctuary of God in heaven was thrown open, and the ark of His covenant was seen standing inside in His sanctuary; and there were flashes of lightning, loud rumblings (blasts, mutterings), peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a terrific hailstorm. [I Kings 8:1-6.]


The Lion of Judah represents Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Judah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Judah)

Revelation 5:5 (Amplified Bible)
5 Then one of the elders [of the heavenly Sanhedrin] said to me, Stop weeping! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root (Source) of David, has won (has overcome and conquered)! He can open the scroll and break its seven seals!

Peace

P.S. Anyone can still add to this any knowledge they know. I am NOT the wisest One here, or religious. lol
I just think and interpret this info and connect DOTS and I am being lead by the holy spirit to see truth and understanding.
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The ark of the covenant that contained God's presence, is a representation of the true ark or carrier of the presence of God, Jesus. Jesus is the door through which a person can enter and also become that container or true ark of God's presence. God doesn't  live in church buildings or structures, He is Spirit and through the indwelling of the Spirit of God, He writes his commands of love on the real tablets of stone. Our hardened hearts, which are then transformed to become soft and tender . The old testatment picture of this is when King David brought back the ark and it resided in a tabernacle or tent. Tents are symbolic types or pictures of our earthly bodies, the temporary house our eternal spirit lives in since death came into the picture. This is not pie in the sky when we die. This is about the here and soon to be now. God is going to have a company of people here on earth that will be his temple, the true ark, made of living stones [people] for him to inhabit by his Spirit. And the invitation still goes out to all who will hear. Revelations22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say "Come!"

So...Michael a messenger? definitely....Michael a new messiah? What if we are all presented with the opportunity to be vessels that carry  the fullness of God's presence while still walking on this earth. Doing greater works than Jesus. The bible says we will. The bible calls this company of people  the manchild, the overcomers, the sons of God. There is no other door in my understanding in departing from the old slavery we were sold into by Adam's fall other than the door to the new creation birth through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
@RK-I agree with the interpretation you stated.

@Souza-You presented a very well put together theory and I believe that alot of what you stated is right on the target. I agree that the ARK is not an object anymore and is indeed a person however I believe that person to be Jesus when he returns. I do believe in his second coming because there is scripture that provides evidence of his return. He said himself to his disciples on the Mount of Olives that he was going away and he shall return in end times. I believe that MJ is indeed a chosen messenger to deliver warnings and usher in the coming Messiah Jesus before his return to reign over this earth setting up his messianic years.

ArchAngel Michael plays an important part in capturing Satan after he is allowed to reign over this earth and is then thrown in the abyss.

Satan was given domain of this earth for a time he is said to be the ruler of earth/world.
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Verse of the Day
“[True Wisdom Comes from God] If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom.” James 3:13 NLT

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=AMP
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Matthew 24
1JESUS DEPARTED from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.
3While He was seated on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately and said, Tell us, when will this take place, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end (the completion, the consummation) of the age?
4Jesus answered them, Be careful that no one misleads you [deceiving you and leading you into error].
5For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.
6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;
8All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the birth pangs [of the intolerable anguish].
9Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
10And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred.
11And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.
12And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.
15So when you see the appalling sacrilege [the abomination that astonishes and makes desolate], spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place--let the reader take notice and ponder and consider and heed [this]--
16Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
17Let him who is on the housetop not come down and go into the house to take anything;
18And let him who is in the field not turn back to get his overcoat.
19And alas for the women who are pregnant and for those who have nursing babies in those days!
20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
21For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].
22And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
23If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!--do not believe it.
24For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones).
25See, I have warned you beforehand.
26So if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness (desert)--do not go out there; if they tell you, Behold, He is in the secret places or inner rooms--do not believe it.
27For just as the lightning flashes from the east and shines and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28Wherever there is a fallen body (a corpse), there the vultures (or eagles) will flock together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendor].
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect (His chosen ones) from the four winds, [even] from one end of the universe to the other.
32From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near.
33So also when you see these signs, all taken together, coming to pass, you may know of a surety that He is near, at the very doors.
34Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, [in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.
35Sky and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38For just as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, [men] marrying and [women] being given in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah went into the ark,
39And they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away--so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40At that time two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42Watch therefore [give strict attention, be cautious and active], for you do not know in what kind of a day [whether a near or remote one] your Lord is coming.
43But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a [night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be [undermined and broken into.
44You also must be ready therefore, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.
45Who then is the faithful, thoughtful, and wise servant, whom his master has put in charge of his household to give to the others the food and supplies at the proper time?
46Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) is that servant whom, when his master comes, he will find so doing.
47I solemnly declare to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48But if that servant is wicked and says to himself, My master is delayed and is going to be gone a long time,
49And begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken,
50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware,
51And will punish him [cut him up by scourging] and put him with the pretenders (hypocrites); there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1&version=AMP
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Revelation 1
1[THIS IS] the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries]. God gave it to Him to disclose and make known to His bond servants certain things which must shortly and speedily come to pass in their entirety. And He sent and communicated it through His angel (messenger) to His bond servant John,
2Who has testified to and vouched for all that he saw [in his visions], the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
3Blessed (happy, to be envied) is the man who reads aloud [in the assemblies] the word of this prophecy; and blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who hear [it read] and who keep themselves true to the things which are written in it [heeding them and laying them to heart], for the time [for them to be fulfilled] is near.
4John to the seven assemblies (churches) that are in Asia: May grace (God's unmerited favor) be granted to you and spiritual peace (the peace of Christ's kingdom) from Him Who is and Who was and Who is to come, and from the seven Spirits [the sevenfold Holy Spirit] before His throne,
5And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who ever loves us and has once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood,
6And formed us into a kingdom (a royal race), priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the power and the majesty and the dominion throughout the ages and forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
7Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth shall gaze upon Him and beat their breasts and mourn and lament over Him. Even so [must it be]. Amen (so be it).
8I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord God, He Who is and Who was and Who is to come, the Almighty (the Ruler of all).
9I, John, your brother and companion (sharer and participator) with you in the tribulation and kingdom and patient endurance [which are] in Jesus Christ, was on the isle called Patmos, [banished] on account of [my witnessing to] the Word of God and the testimony (the proof, the evidence) for Jesus Christ.
10I was in the Spirit [rapt in His power] on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a great voice like the calling of a war trumpet,
11Saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Write promptly what you see (your vision) in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia--to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.
12Then I turned to see [whose was] the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13And in the midst of the lampstands [One] like a Son of Man, clothed with a robe which reached to His feet and with a girdle of gold about His breast.
14His head and His hair were white like white wool, [as white] as snow, and His eyes [flashed] like a flame of fire.
15His feet glowed like burnished (bright) bronze as it is refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.
16In His right hand He held seven stars, and from His mouth there came forth a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was like the sun shining in full power at midday.
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as if dead. But He laid His right hand on me and said, Do not be afraid! I am the First and the Last,
18And the Ever-living One [I am living in the eternity of the eternities]. I died, but see, I am alive forevermore; and I possess the keys of death and Hades (the realm of the dead).
19Write therefore the things you see, what they are [and signify] and what is to take place hereafter.
20As to the hidden meaning (the mystery) of the seven stars which you saw on My right hand and the seven lampstands of gold: the seven stars are the seven angels (messengers) of the seven assemblies (churches) and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+10&version=AMP
Quote
Revelation 10
1THEN I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, robed in a cloud, with a [halo like a] rainbow over his head; his face was like the sun, and his feet (legs) were like columns of fire.
2He had a little book (scroll) open in his hand. He set his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land,
3And he shouted with a loud voice like the roaring of a lion; and when he had shouted, the seven thunders gave voice and uttered their message in distinct words.
4And when the seven thunders had spoken (sounded), I was going to write [it down], but I heard a voice from heaven saying, Seal up what the seven thunders have said! Do not write it down!
5Then the [mighty] angel whom I had seen stationed on sea and land raised his right hand to heaven (the sky),
6And swore in the name of (by) Him Who lives forever and ever, Who created the heavens (sky) and all they contain, and the earth and all that it contains, and the sea and all that it contains. [He swore] that no more time should intervene and there should be no more waiting or delay,
7But that when the days come when the trumpet call of the seventh angel is about to be sounded, then God's mystery (His secret design, His hidden purpose), as He had announced the glad tidings to His servants the prophets, should be fulfilled (accomplished, completed).
8Then the voice that I heard from heaven spoke again to me, saying, Go and take the little book (scroll) which is open on the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.
9So I went up to the angel and asked him to give me the little book. And he said to me, Take it and eat it. It will embitter your stomach, though in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.
10So I took the little book from the angel's hand and ate and swallowed it; it was as sweet as honey in my mouth, but once I had swallowed it, my stomach was embittered.
11Then they said to me, You are to make a fresh prophecy concerning many peoples and races and nations and languages and kings.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=AMP
Quote
Revelation 20
1THEN I saw an angel descending from heaven; he was holding the key of the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and a great chain was in his hand.
2And he gripped and overpowered the dragon, that old serpent [of primeval times], who is the devil and Satan, and [securely] bound him for a thousand years.
3Then he hurled him into the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and closed it and sealed it above him, so that he should no longer lead astray and deceive and seduce the nations until the thousand years were at an end. After that he must be liberated for a short time.
4Then I saw thrones, and sitting on them were those to whom authority to act as judges and to pass sentence was entrusted. Also I saw the souls of those who had been slain with axes [beheaded] for their witnessing to Jesus and [for preaching and testifying] for the Word of God, and who had refused to pay homage to the beast or his statue and had not accepted his mark or permitted it to be stamped on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived again and ruled with Christ (the Messiah) a thousand years.
5The remainder of the dead were not restored to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed (happy, to be envied) and holy (spiritually whole, of unimpaired innocence and proved virtue) is the person who takes part (shares) in the first resurrection! Over them the second death exerts no power or authority, but they shall be ministers of God and of Christ (the Messiah), and they shall rule along with Him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his place of confinement,
8And he will go forth to deceive and seduce and lead astray the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth--Gog and Magog--to muster them for war; their number is like the sand of the sea.
9And they swarmed up over the broad plain of the earth and encircled the fortress (camp) of God's people (the saints) and the beloved city; but fire descended from heaven and consumed them. [II Kings 1:10-12; Ezek. 38:2, 22.]
10Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
12I[also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books.
13And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works].
14Then death and Hades the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15And if anyone's [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 16, 2011, 04:00:04 AM
This post and the other one above (I quoted from me) are from a thread I started back in July 2010.
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:ugeek:

So yesterday I was doing some more digging around and I was reading up on Solomon,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon)
Quote
"The Hebrew Bible credits Solomon as the builder of the First Temple in Jerusalem"
:geek: and his supposed affair with Queen of Sheba :geek: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Sheba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Sheba)
Quote
The Queen of Sheba was a monarch of the ancient kingdom of Sheba and is referred to in Habeshan history, the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament, and the Qur'an. She is widely assumed to have been a queen regnant, although there is no historical proof of this; in fact, she may have been a queen consort.

The location of her historical kingdom most likely included part of modern day Ethiopia and Eritrea,and perhaps Yemen as well.

:geek: And supposedly Solomon and Queen of Sheba had a son :geek: 

Quote
"An ancient compilation of Ethiopian legends, Kebra Negast ('the Glory of Kings'), is dated to seven hundred years ago and relates a history of Makeda and her descendants. In this account King Solomon is said to have seduced the Queen of Sheba and sired her son, Menelik I, who would become the first Emperor of Ethiopia."

:geek: And that is supposedly how The Ark of the Covenant got to the Church in Ethiopia, the same church that claims to have it and was going to reveal it to the world.

I then found this website and I agree with the final statements.
http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_issues4.php (http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_issues4.php)
Quote
The Forgotten Ark
Regardless of what happened to the Ark, the Scriptures suggest that it will never be found again. This comes as quite a shock to some Christians who have assumed that the Ark must be found before the Tribulation Temple can be built and animal sacrifice re-instituted. Others have simply assumed that the Ark would be replaced in the Holy of Holies when the Lord's Millennial Temple is built.

But Jeremiah says point blank that "the ark of the covenant of the Lord... shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they miss it, nor shall it be made again" (Jeremiah 3:16). The context of this passage is the Millennial reign of Jesus, so it does not rule out the possibility of a discovery prior to that time. Conceivably, the Ark could be discovered, and Satan could use its discovery to incite the rebuilding of a Temple where an apostate sacrificial system would be re-instituted. We know that such a Temple will be built, but I doubt if its construction will be motivated by the discovery of the Ark.

The Non-Essential Ark
The important point to keep in mind here is that the rediscovery of the Ark is not essential to the rebuilding of the Temple. After all, the Temple was rebuilt by Zerubbabel following the Babylonian captivity, and the Ark had already been lost by that time. There was no Ark in the Holy of Holies during the time when Jesus worshiped in the Temple.

Nor is the Ark needed for the Millennial Temple. Ezekiel describes the Temple in great detail (chapters 40-42), and he never mentions the Ark. There is a Holy of Holies (Ezekiel 41:4), but it is empty, and it is not separated from the Holy Place by a veil.

Jesus has already entered the heavenly Holy of Holies in our behalf (Hebrews 4:14-16, 8:1-6). He has torn away the veil that separated us from God, and He serves as our High Priest, having offered His own blood as the perfect sacrifice for our sins (Hebrews 9:11-16). He serves as our Mediator before the Father's throne (Hebrews 9:24-28).

Thus, during the Millennium, there will be no need for a human high priest or an Ark with a mercy seat. Jesus will serve as both king and high priest, and in that capacity, He will continue to serve as humanity's mercy seat. (Zechariah 6:12-13).

The True Ark
With regard to this concept of Christ as our mercy seat, let me add a penetrating insight which I picked up from John MacArthur, one of this country's greatest preachers. He pointed to a simple historical verse that contains a profound truth about Jesus being our mercy seat.

The verse is John 20:12. Speaking of Mary looking into the empty tomb of Jesus, the verse says, "she beheld two angels in white sitting, one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been lying." What Mary saw, MacArthur observed, was the new mercy seat, the perfect mercy seat.

Consider again what Mary saw. She witnessed two angels, one sitting at each end of the slab which had held the broken body of our Lord. That scene points us back to the Ark of the Covenant where two cherubim hovered over its blood splattered mercy seat!

There is no more need for the Ark. Jesus has fulfilled all that the Ark stood for. He was deity who took on flesh. He rendered complete obedience to the Law, being made perfect and becoming the source of our salvation (Hebrews 5:8-9). His blood was shed for our sins, and His victory is attested by the fact and the power of His resurrection.

Just as the Ark was designed to be a symbol of the presence of God in the midst of His people, Jesus is the ultimate expression of God's love and care and presence. He is our Ark. He is our Law. He is our Manna. He is our Budded Rod. And, thank God, He is our Mercy Seat.


Peace
:ugeek:
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 16, 2011, 04:42:31 AM
Im_convinced, interesting point of view, about Jesus being the Ark. Yet I really don't see Jesus coming back, there is just something in my mind that blocks that possibility, since it was made so very clear that Jesus was a human being.

I have to think about this some more, will get back to this tonight.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 16, 2011, 04:48:46 AM
Just came to mind: what if the ark is simply the barer of the truth? (we're taking over, we have the truth) We have been discussing many people who seem to have a hidden agenda even though they preach to spread nothing but the truth? (Alex Jones, Wikileaks etc.) Could they be the fake arks? Is that why we will know the true ark when we see/hear it?

Okay, I gotta run for work. I will think about it some more.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 16, 2011, 09:50:01 AM
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Im_convinced, interesting point of view, about Jesus being the Ark. Yet I really don't see Jesus coming back, there is just something in my mind that blocks that possibility, since it was made so very clear that Jesus was a human being.

I have to think about this some more, will get back to this tonight.

Souza  WTF?? ?
The whole New Testament exists because of Jesus.
If we take the Bible as truth, we must take it all as truth, not only parts of it.

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on September 16, 2011, 10:38:00 AM
The problem is that there are so many stories of the ark that it is not easy, but if no one having seen as it is said to have, for example these measures As exact:
 
 
Quote
  The Ark of the Covenant had a cubic capacity of 5,625 elbows or 3,575 cm. cubic, which multiplied by 100 is equivalent to the duration of a Hebrew year or distance nímina there from Earth to the Moon in its perigee.
 The total area would be 19.6 elbows or equivalent to 12.458.936 cm. whose turnover in million equals the diameter of the Earth, or the equivalent to the Area of the Tabernacle (1906,96 cubic cm) to divide it between 100. 
 

 
 
http://www.ranimirum.com/busca/index4.htm (http://www.ranimirum.com/busca/index4.htm)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: simalves on September 16, 2011, 12:40:30 PM
OFF TOPIC : I know this is the last place to discuss Bieber, but something has been nagging me throughout, so since this thread also talks about Michael and Jesus here is something trivial.


2010 American Music Awards - Justin thanks Michael Jackson
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvBfDL1smhs[/youtube]
(starts at 1:10) I want to thank Michael Jackson, because without Michael Jackson, none of us would be here. So thank you so much.


2011 Video Music Awards - Justin thanks Jesus
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSwjrZUlzbg[/youtube]
I just want to say thank you so much, not only to God but to Jesus, because you know, I wouldn't be here without him. He has really blessed me. He has put me in this position. So I want to say thank you so much.


Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MissG on September 16, 2011, 12:54:28 PM
Wow, so interesting. Need to read once again!

My interpretation of it it´s very simple:

-Ark burried and sealed somewhere, the same with Michael´s gold casket
-Ark contains the 10 commandments, May be Michael´s gold casket has some documents in it
-The disciples waited for Jesus and have been spreading his word in seach of truth. We are doing the same. Michael is our Jesus. We wait for his come back and mean time we search for truth and spread the message.
-Jesus was loved first and crucified after by his people, and the same happened to MJ.

There are some paralells but Michael is not the next messiah.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 16, 2011, 05:24:58 PM
To me, Michael seems like the Jesus figure of our time.  The age of aquarius that is coming.  Jesus of Nazareth was over 2000 years ago in order to give messages to people at the start of the age of Pisces.  When they said Jesus was coming back I don't think they meant in the same exact physical body.  That body can't be maintained for 2000 or more years.  I think they meant the spirit or light body of Jesus.   In other words we have a second coming but he/she can look like an ordinary person.  We don't know what he/she would look like.  I think we have to go by how they act and what they do and say etc.  Also I think there may be an ark with holy tablets etc. but we won't know the real one.   The ark could also be a person who has the truth.  To me this is more important.  That real prophet/messiah/messenger would know what is real and what is fake.  I am hoping we well know it by our hearts.  All of our hearts have led us here.  Everything to me points in the direction of Michael.  It it started a very long time before the death hoax and it all makes sense.    One thing that confuses me is the difference between ArchAngel michael and Jesus and the son of man.  How are they different or are they the same ?  Archangel michael seems to be a warrior/fighter and Jesus more like a teacher.  Maybe the angel will be there at the same time as the messiah ????????  Some confusion.   What do you think ?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 16, 2011, 05:57:16 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJINkbxM0VA[/youtube]
 
With L.O.V.E. always.
 
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Love4Michael on September 16, 2011, 10:14:59 PM
Thanks for posting that BeTheChange.  I've been enjoying that series/channel for quite a while now and think it's fantastic.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 16, 2011, 10:47:40 PM
so BetheChange, Are you thinking that Michael is ArchAngel Michael ?   The Warrior Angel ?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: son on September 17, 2011, 09:12:53 AM
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Im_convinced, interesting point of view, about Jesus being the Ark. Yet I really don't see Jesus coming back, there is just something in my mind that blocks that possibility, since it was made so very clear that Jesus was a human being.

I have to think about this some more, will get back to this tonight.

Souza  WTF?? ?
The whole New Testament exists because of Jesus.
If we take the Bible as truth, we must take it all as truth, not only parts of it.



Seconded, Jesus' authority comes from his divine Nature. That's abundantly apparent when the New Testament is read. When you eliminate Jesus' divine nature (by saying he was just a human and Michael Jackson can take on the position of Messiah/Christ) you basically eliminate the whole foundation by which a Messiah can rule (by Christian standards at least).
If Michael is trying to build himself into the next Christ (which I doubt) than woe unto him: As Jesus himself says in Matthew 24:24,
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Unless you're suggesting Michael is divine some how, which actually contradicts what he said on the issue.

@Don'twalkaway

Technically, if I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is the Archangel Michael (ordinarily I would contest that but it actually fits with what I've been saying). It's their way of interpreting Jesus' unique more than human nature. In a sense in the development of Christianity their was conflicting views on the unique nature of Jesus but all of the differing factions more or less agreed that Jesus was more than a human and more than a Prophet. The council of Nicea established Jesus as fully God and fully man but there was no significant movement in early Christianity that contended that Jesus was merely a man (a part from what the critics of the faith stated with contempt.)

I guess it's possible for MJ to be some sort of prophetic forerunner to the Jesus' second coming (don't quote me on that though). I think the religious aspect of the hoax theory is a detour.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: hesouttamylife on September 17, 2011, 07:34:35 PM
I have always believed that Michael Jackson was sent here to do Godly things.  And he did.  From early childhood he always recognized the importance of God and children.  He never faltered from that premise.  His life was not his to lead.  He was guided by a higher power.

…and a child shall lead them.

Scripture says that during the Millennium, David will be the prince, king on Earth. Scripture says he will feed the people and be their shepherd. Scripture says, a little child shall lead them during this time of peace. (sounds familiar)   God has been known to put the same spirit into different people.  Is it possible that someone with the SPIRIT of David will rule as king on Earth during the Millennium? I believe so.

And I will come again and receive you unto myself. 

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming [Greek, parousia], and of the end of the world? The Greek word translated "coming" is parousia. It really means “presence".  The Scriptures show that the first stage of our Lord's parousia, presence, will be secret.  That he will come like a theif in the night, doing his tidings secretly.  Didn’t Michael do that?  People will at first be unaware of who he is, but those who are not blinded by the light of him, will know him.  (Michael was the light of the world)  Only later, (perhpas now during his gone) others will become aware.  When he returns EVERY eye will see him.  And those who are not so full of themselves will recognize him.  One of the first evidences of Christ's parousia, presence, will appear in the nominal church heavens. It translates to this:   When we see a wholesale attack by leaders in the churches on the divine inspiration of the Bible, and ministers falling from a spiritual condition to a political or social gospel, then we know that Christ has returned. That’s happening NOW.

Matthew 24:30, 31 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, (the world mourned this great loss)  and they shall see the [blink]Son of man[/blink] coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels (US) respect/ with a great sound of a trumpet,(sybolizes a proclamation of truth) and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." The angels or messengers used by our Lord in this harvest gathering will be such messengers as he has used in his service throughout this age—earthly servants, begotten of his holy Spirit, "new creatures" in Christ Jesus.

all of the above fits Michael to a tee.  I’ve always considered him a God-send bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 17, 2011, 09:52:13 PM
Good point Hesoutofmylife.  Maybe he was trying to say he is someone with the spirit of David ?????  Did you see all the pictures from SimPattyk ?  Look on the thread, New Jesus-Mark My Words.    There are paintings of michael as David, but there are also ones of him as an egyptian god, and Bacchus and him wearing a Renaiisance costume.  Maybe his spirit can be many forms throughout time ?????  This also goes along with the poem "Are you listening".  He was talking about immortality because he is a flux of energy playing hide and seek and taking different forms.

What we should do is find out when these figures lived in history and put them on a time line. It seems that he is starting with the egyptians and then showing different parts of history.  Maybe the same spirit is in the bodies of these different people.  Maybe you can remember past lives ?????   Maybe I'm thinking too much and the pictures were just meant to show different parts of history ??????  But it all goes together with the poem and other things.    What do you all think ? 

This reminds me of the movie from the seventies "Close Encounters of the Third Kind",  I was a kid then but I remember seeing the people making mountains out of everything.  Actually building mountains from anything even their mashed potatoes.   It was a clue and they were trying to figure out what was going on.  And they kept hearing four tones and then a fifth one repeated three times.  And then when the spacehip landed and the aliens came out at the end it gave the same sound.  I don't remember what happened with the mountain.  I think people in the neighborhood even built hills and mountains in their yards.      /cook/
I keep feeling like I am in that movie and we are all trying to figure out the clues and build our mountains but actually they're watching us.    "They're here".

Love to All       
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on September 17, 2011, 10:48:39 PM
IS THE ARK OF THE COVENANT WILL BE DISCLOSED SOON?

Posted on  April 1, 2011   

So says the patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church prior to a meeting with Pope Benedict in Rome 16.

The Patriarch has met with Pope Benedict XVI, Abuna Paulos confessed that tell the Pope thinks he holds the fate of humanity.

"The Ark of the Covenant - reaffirms Pauolos - found in Ethiopia for many centuries. Patriarch confesses that he has seen with his own eyes as he just a very select few have seen so far.

This is the official announcement, the ark is in Ethiopia, and will be revealed his secret and shown to the world, will be the revelation of the millennium, and was released at the Hotel Aldrovandi in Rome by the Patriarch, along with Prince Makonnen Haile Selassie Aklile Berhan, and the Duke Amedeo D'Aosta in Rome.

According to some scholars, the Ark was stolen from Jerusalem by the son of King Solomon and taken to Axum, regarded as the Jerusalem of Ethiopia.

A few weeks ago was released around the world the news that this would have been seen by a journalist (not revealed the name of this journalist.) It was, then, when the Patriarch decided to "make known once and for all the world the truth" to teach the wooden box and gold, with the Tablets of the Law of God. The Patriarch has considered that the time has come finally close this chapter.

Already started the countdown to finally be revealed the mystery of the sacred Ark of the Covenant, capable, according to legend, releasing bursts of divine light whose rays can burn anyone.

On Friday press conference was officially announced, this was possible through the collaboration of Paul Salerno, Prince collaborator and journalist Antonio Parisi.

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Altro/?id=3.0.3437754525

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Speciali/MAE/?id=3.0.3437754525

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102119

Note:
There is no doubt that this is a show, being that the staging of this play is being in the Vatican, and if this "noble" city is tucked into this then we can say that this is part of the deception pointing to the wonders and miracles to deceive the world that after passing his ecumenical movement overall policy and they're up to is that we can not deny that this is all very suspicious now that all are doing to make this statement out in conjunction with the next encyclical of Benedict XVI addresses the issue of the economic crisis and the need for nations to adopt natural law (Catholic Catechism) as a regulator of global economic policies of nations, and more, where he now is being promoted to this pope as a prophet who knew from the past to anticipate economic and social crisis we find ourselves because of failure to implement religion in all political, social and economic force in this world.

Who says especially this network of deceit and machinations?, Because as we saw yesterday, everything points towards God's elect, that is its people and its remnant as this is all part of the deployment of the wonders and lying wonders that make false Christs and false prophets as authentic. In the last post I showed how this interfaith alliance that will result in the triple alliance of apocalypse 16:13.14, but did not show to whom the message is addressed, and leave it unfinished to show you today.

Behold, I come like a thief. (Dire warnings of Jesus, because it will surprise everyone).

Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see their vergüenza.-Revelation 16:15

That is the warning and the blessing, not for those who are reading this during the plagues, but for those who are reading this now, and are taking supplies to any of this surprise you because the message is directly connected with the message to Laodicea , which translated into our language means "The People of Judgement."

Because thou sayest, I am rich, I have prospered, and I have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. -Rev 3:17

I have to say no because of our first parents who were naked, sadly history recorded in Genesis 3, reminds us that happens to us when we pay attention to the fumes coming out of breath mephitic Dragon, and the Lord has warned us that this anger cheating the world and we all fall into the trap of the wonders to deploy in the eyes of all.

Many know that the "Ark of the Covenant" appears, it will be a highlight where the law of God will be invalidated, specifically when the Sunday law is accepted worldwide and that return the papacy lost supremacy in the world.

The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, hidden and safe from the human family. But at the time appointed by God, He will bring those tablets of stone to be a witness before the world against the disobedience of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath .- Manuscript 122, 1901, Bible Commentary, vol. 1, 1123.

God will show the world evidence that it exists and be accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit under the loud cry, it will show the world his "Law" twice, the first time he will do under the seventh trumpet (Rev. 11 : 19) as the last chance for those who have not decided yet the mark of the beast, and the second time will make on the occasion of the coming of Christ that the wicked will understand under what standard is being judged the world.

Then appears in the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded upon each other. The prophet says: "We denounce the heavens his justice, because God is the judge" [Ps 50: 6]. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the norm of the trial. The hand opens the tables, which are seen the precepts of the Decalogue as inscribed in letters of fire. The words are so plain that all can read. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition and heresy of all the spirits disappear, and God's ten words, brief, readable and full of authority, are presented in the light of all the inhabitants of the earth.-CS 697 (1911).

This time will be terrible for the human race when you have to give account to the Creator for their acts of rebellion, and from those who let the devil fool you because I can assure you that we are entering the prophesied time and I hope in the Lord that we can all collect oil for our lamps now before it's too late.

May the Lord bless and protect you from all evil, who sends his angels to his feet do not face any stones on the narrow road of salvation.

http://ultimostiempos.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/%c2%bfel-arca-de-la-alianza-sera-revelada-muy-pronto-leer-hasta-el-final/



It may be to this interpretation referred to TS
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 18, 2011, 08:45:32 AM
Be very careful about anything being presented by the Catholic church (vatican), and government, and world organizations such as the United Nations, etc.  Certain parties have been trying to deceive us forever.   Don't believe anything without proof.   That's just my recommendation. argue/        Analyze everything because there are many lies and deceptions.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: hesouttamylife on September 18, 2011, 08:53:48 AM
T
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Be very careful about anything being presented by the Catholic church (vatican), and government, and world organizations such as the United Nations, etc.  Certain parties have been trying to deceive us forever.   Don't believe anything without proof.   That's just my recommendation. argue/        Analyze everything because there are many lies and deceptions.
The first ushering in of the Milleneum is prophesized to have its root in the church.  So I agree with you.  False prophets are many in the last days.  And God have we seen them in abundance of late.  And the church is the most powerful branch of government. /white flag/
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on September 18, 2011, 11:03:23 AM
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T
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Be very careful about anything being presented by the Catholic church (vatican), and government, and world organizations such as the United Nations, etc.  Certain parties have been trying to deceive us forever.   Don't believe anything without proof.   That's just my recommendation. argue/        Analyze everything because there are many lies and deceptions.
The first ushering in of the Milleneum is prophesized to have its root in the church.  So I agree with you.  False prophets are many in the last days.  And God have we seen them in abundance of late.  And the church is the most powerful branch of government. /white flag/

 
 
That is what really worries me; that the Vaticano is involved in all this. :?
 
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: hesouttamylife on September 18, 2011, 11:15:00 AM
The mega churches are full of false prophets who are using the church for their vile movements.  Our Mega Church just recently slammed and fell flat on its face with charges of pedophilia and child sexual exploitation at its helm.  Mjor payouts were handed down in the settlements; however some refuse o remain silent.  Still, there are those members and worshippers of man who continue to ignore the truth and continue to follow this man.  His name is Eddie Long.  His ministry for young boys is called of all things “Eddie’s Longefellows”.  Good grief /cook/ You can read about him and judge for yourselves.  He’s just one of the many who are falling by the wayside and most all off the crimes they are committing are sins of a sexual nature - money, powere, lust.

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/bishop-eddie-long-masculine-620225.html (http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/bishop-eddie-long-masculine-620225.html)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on September 18, 2011, 11:39:42 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The mega churches are full of false prophets who are using the church for their vile movements.  Our Mega Church just recently slammed and fell flat on its face with charges of pedophilia and child sexual exploitation at its helm.  Mjor payouts were handed down in the settlements; however some refuse o remain silent.  Still, there are those members and worshippers of man who continue to ignore the truth and continue to follow this man.  His name is Eddie Long.  His ministry for young boys is called of all things “Eddie’s Longefellows”.  Good grief /cook/ You can read about him and judge for yourselves.  He’s just one of the many who are falling by the wayside and most all off the crimes they are committing are sins of a sexual nature - money, powere, lust. /overreacting/

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/bishop-eddie-long-masculine-620225.html (http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/bishop-eddie-long-masculine-620225.html)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on September 18, 2011, 12:00:12 PM
And This Was Written A Few years ago:
 
 The Great Seal of the new world order 
 
   Nowadays, it is astonishing to note the fulfillment of prophetic visions in the first century written by the evangelist John, an apostle of Christ, in the so-called Book (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos13/librylec/librylec.shtml) of Revelations or Apocalypse to the light (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos5/natlu/natlu.shtml) of certain modern world events.
Undoubtedly, today we ride on what could be categorized as a kind of final battle between good and evil, beyond the pack of lies that have defined the concepts political (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos10/poli/poli.shtml) , economic and religious who intend to follow cultural imperative at this point in the history of (http://www.monografias.com/Historia/index.shtml) universal .
In this sense it is not surprising that the Economics (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos54/resumen-economia/resumen-economia.shtml) Global Markets (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos13/mercado/mercado.shtml) and indisputable "invisible hand" have been honored today by many industrialists, technocrats and ecclesiastical, idealizing a kind of Messiah individually capable of restoring all the problems (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos15/calidad-serv/calidad-serv.shtml#PLANT) in the social . But despite the econometric estimates sacrilegious handled by these traditional colonial, as you go "the first rider" what really is the wild we see the collapse of the system (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos11/teosis/teosis.shtml) and capitalist world-values ​​Satanic doctrine.
(http://www.monografias.com/images04/trans.gif) (http://www.monografias.com/)
The above prophetic document presents a series of images (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos3/color/color.shtml) to review this contest through strange and beautiful metaphors, where the evil symbolized by the dominance (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos7/doin/doin.shtml) of wealth materials (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos14/propiedadmateriales/propiedadmateriales.shtml) , excessive ambitions and oppression of people by groups (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos11/grupo/grupo.shtml) powerful in turn, are identified as beasts of the sea and ascend the earth (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos15/origen-tierra/origen-tierra.shtml) . Likewise, good is represented by those who face the indigestible oppressors who, sensing his final hours, exalt the popular Antichrist turns sucking a global leadership in a picture (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos7/imco/imco.shtml) (any trade agreement?) and a currency that characterizes .. . the dollar.
According to Evangelista, a three-digit number could identify the last defenders of imperialism (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos/capimperial/capimperial.shtml) as a model (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos/adolmodin/adolmodin.shtml) of living system of which he himself was a victim at the time of writing the Apocalypse in the Greek island of Patmos. And interestingly, the figure "666" can be seen on the back of a single dollar bill (1 $), just at the base of the pyramid whose omniscient eye leads the order of time (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos901/evolucion-historica-concepciones-tiempo/evolucion-historica-concepciones-tiempo.shtml) on the waters prevailed, ie on people and the key hidden in the famous monetary unit is in the Roman script for the year of the independence (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos/indephispa/indephispa.shtml) of the United States (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos7/esun/esun.shtml) of America, ie 1776 (MDCCLXXVI). To check, place the numbers indicated on the label containing the fetish Egyptian and later unveiled the figure omits a letter as you go two by two, which will result DCLXVI or 666 number,! according to the book in question, identifies the currency of a second "beast" that is part of the first and whose "horns," probably allegorically portrayed in the commercial binomial US-EU states. Equally curious is that the term "Novus Ordo Seclorum" molded into the bottom of the pyramid, is related to the "New World Order" that comes from reinforcing the first Jewish Freemasonry Administration (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos36/administracion-y-gerencia/administracion-y-gerencia.shtml) Bush at the White House and whose claim is old cover the entire land (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos11/tierreco/tierreco.shtml) under a concept (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos10/teca/teca.shtml) unique and inhuman capital (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos13/capintel/capintel.shtml) dreamed as the highest representative of the Illuminati, Adam Weishaupt, the same year.
However, John testified specifically the following regarding the final destination of the last imperialist: "... the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, without giving any rest day nor night, who worshiped the beast and his image, nor anyone who received the currency of your n! ombre. " (Rev. 14-11)
Obviously, because of the growing recession in the northern country that is affecting many global interests, hereafter, we will face the ultimate despair of global oligarchies to maintain their ancient privileges to the detriment of the majority, all of which can not prevent weakening of the desirable "hard mark (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos16/marca/marca.shtml) 666 "and that his fall is imminent, according to the Christian worldview, should ultimately determine who is worthy of love (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos16/filosofia-del-amor/filosofia-del-amor.shtml) or hatred in this great point of the cosmos. 
... seeing and hearing will not will not understand.
(http://www.monografias.com/images04/trans.gif) (http://www.monografias.com/)
Eagle Temple at Jerusalem.
Bruno Cardeñosa
Introduction
Extremetistas Christians and Jews (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos28/judios-y-jerusalem/judios-y-jerusalem.shtml) and working to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. Behind this initiative, funded and supported by an organization (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos6/napro/napro.shtml) called the Temple Institute are hiding dark political, religious alliances and prophecies.
What unites ultra-Orthodox Jews and Christian fundamentalists? Apparently nothing ... So it remains strange that one of the most influential rabbi, Chaim Richman, a man (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos15/fundamento-ontologico/fundamento-ontologico.shtml) closely linked to Prime Minister israel (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos/sionismo/sionismo.shtml) i, Ariel Sharon, has traveled the southern United States to meet with congregation congregation's most powerful Protestant leaders . I asked for help, read money, to fulfill a dream that illuminates both: to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem.
One of the foremost experts on messianism has reported: "There is an agreement between the Jewish extremists and fanatics evangelists to build the temple on the ruins of the former, above the place where they believe they will find the Ark of the Covenant. And for this he concludes James Tabor, director of the Department of Religious Studies at the University (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos13/admuniv/admuniv.shtml) of North Carolina (USA.) - want to destroy all existing mosques in the courtyard of Jerusalem. "
Are the days of the Third Temple?
The most conservative Christians, those who make reading (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos14/textos-escrit/textos-escrit.shtml) text of Scripture, they believe that with the advent of the Third Millennium comes the time of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Jesus. A similar claim those who set themselves up as guarantors of the rabbinic tradition as the basis of biblical prophecies of Ezekiel, and the rabbi's word for excellence, Maimonides: the arrival of the Messiah (they do not accept Jesus, but as a prophet) will take place when the Third Temple be built.
It was built by Solomon and Nebuchadnezzar destroyed when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians in 587 (VI century BC) there was the Ark of the Covenant, that portentous object built in the times of Moses and served as a bridge between Yahweh and men . The Ark of the Covenant was the symbol of God's protective presence. The Ark disappeared at the time, but there is a common belief in Judaism that is kept in place secure (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos5/segu/segu.shtml) and will be discovered when you place the restoration of Israel (2 Maccabees 2, 4-8).
The Temple was rebuilt, and now in our era, in the year 72, the Romans turned to ashes.
With the establishment of Israel as a state (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos12/elorigest/elorigest.shtml) after the Second War (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos11/artguerr/artguerr.shtml) World opened a new stage. Some, the most extreme among the orthodox view that was not the time to plan the building of the Third Temple, as Israel was only a secular state. But in 1989, according to TIME, 18% of the time believed Jews. Seven years later, another poll, conducted by the Gallup Institute, noted that 58% of Israelis wanted it. The study was requested by a peculiar organization: The Temple Institute.
Led by Rabbi Chaim Richman said, this organization was founded in the late eighties. Intended to bring together all those who would engage in an adventure both archaeological and architectural and policy (http://www.monografias.com/Politica/index.shtml) .
Architecture, because in their ranks who has accommodated based on the instructions set forth by the prophet Ezekiel has designed the new Temple, which will accommodate 93-liturgical objects of gold (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos35/oferta-demanda-oro/oferta-demanda-oro.shtml) and silver, fundamentally, they will have to be faithful to what indicates prophecy and what the law (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos4/leyes/leyes.shtml) says Jewish. They have already made ​​60: Silver bells and trumpets enormous sacrifices knives, clothing for priests, a gold Menorah ...
Archaeological, because its members have been searching in the ruins of the Old Temple the network (http://www.monografias.com/Computacion/Redes/) of tunnels and rooms in which it is housed, according to tradition, the Ark of the Covenant. They have announced that they have already located. Policy And because the construction (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos35/materiales-construccion/materiales-construccion.shtml) of the Third Temple, thirty times larger than the previous one, involves the total Israeli rule over the Temple Mount, where live-yet-faced religious cults has his particular center of the world: Christians, Arabs and Jews.
The prophecies are being fulfilled. With the coming to power (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos35/el-poder/el-poder.shtml) of Ariel Sharon, whose political party leaders are of the Temple Institute, the road to the government (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos4/derpub/derpub.shtml) of the Temple Mount took a fundamental step. The Second Intifada began following his visit to the site, during which he proclaimed, "is the time of the Third Temple." Therefore, Sharon's intransigence becomes mint obfuscation when sharing the place. No leader (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos15/liderazgo/liderazgo.shtml) in this area Orthodox cede an inch or because the location of the Temple, according to law, religious law, involves the destruction of the Al Aqsa.
The Temple Institute won an important battle at the end of last July when, after several years of attempts, succeeded in placing the symbolic first stone boulder in this case, it weighed almost five tons, the Third Temple. Now they are convinced of the need to take the rest and as the U.S. Christian fundamentalists are convinced that the events of Sept. 11 are proof that the prophecies are being fulfilled. More reasons argue members of the Temple Institute, who issued a note to the effect that the first words of Bin Laden after the attack on Afghanistan (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos910/reflexiones-afganistan/reflexiones-afganistan.shtml) was a good show (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos11/tebas/tebas.shtml) that the conflict (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos4/confyneg/confyneg.shtml) had its origin precisely in the Arab-Israeli conflict. And in a flash Zionist urged the Islamists out of the esplanade.
According to Professor (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos27/profesor-novel/profesor-novel.shtml) James Tabor, the issue is more complex than can be assumed. Note that there are isolated and marginal groups who have decided to start building the Third Temple: "I have found the place where the Ark of the Covenant, and the new Temple will aim to show it." In addition, as an expert in biblical prophecy is, has been tracking a premise without which it would be impossible to undertake the work: the emergence of a chestnut or reddish calf without blemish. Such a thing, so strange, is considered by Orthodox Jews as critical when completing your lighting (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos11/ilum/ilum.shtml) .
Richman's first trip to America was an obligatory stop in Canton, Mississippi. There was to visit a farmer and evangelical activist named Clyde Lott. The reason is that among the last offspring that were born in his domain was one, which he called Diki, who had a more than disturbing characteristic: it was completely alanazada ... Red, spotless, just like New Testament prophecy of the book "Numbers" indicates it should occur. Lott was sure that the veal was special. And Richman, to see and when tested, had no doubt: "This is right, this is the mother."
Richman discussed the fact with other rabbis and Jewish scholars. They agreed with him on the essentials. The following negotiations had as objective (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos16/objetivos-educacion/objetivos-educacion.shtml) to preserve Diki. I thought I'd try to take her to Israel, that there had offspring. That remains the goal, but the Temple Institute prefer to go slowly. The arrival of the chestnut calf might cause the odd confrontation in the Holy Land, and so far have enabled a farm in Nebraska with all the means (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos14/medios-comunicacion/medios-comunicacion.shtml) that Lott, along with a number of Israeli-born farmers working away from any interference. Lott now has there hundreds of cattle in this unusual and hitherto unknown colors (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos5/colarq/colarq.shtml) .
(http://www.monografias.com/images04/trans.gif) (http://www.monografias.com/)
It will be the last step: a chestnut calf, two to three years, should be burned, and their ashes mixed in water (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos14/problemadelagua/problemadelagua.shtml) , the early rabbis of the Third Temple can begin their work (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos34/el-trabajo/el-trabajo.shtml) . So you type the final plot of the Temple.
 
http://www.monografias.com/trabajos22/nuevo-orden-mundial/nuevo-orden-mundial.shtml (http://www.monografias.com/trabajos22/nuevo-orden-mundial/nuevo-orden-mundial.shtml)
 
 
 
We Must Be attentive to the Vatican and the Jews to the topic of the ark
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Andrea on September 18, 2011, 03:24:03 PM
Remember in Miss Cast Away where Michael says, " If you do not destroy the ark, then mankind will pay dearly for the consequences."  This particular video shows that scene twice.  I'm really wondering what he meant by this, it does not seem to be just a random story line, especially when it involves Michael Jackson.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwrr94BiAo&feature=grec_index[/youtube]

The beginning of this video is very sweet too, I was very touched when Michael is comforting the author of They Cage The Animals At Night and he asks Michael, "Will we always be friends?"  So sweet, such a kind moment.




I really find this entire thread fascinating.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 18, 2011, 11:30:18 PM
Disclaimer:  This is a long post...and I wasn’t sure which thread to put it in lol.  But because it’s wayyyyy out there, I thought this thread should be its home.  Also because something has sparked a different kinda ‘light’ for me lately....and it ties in with the ideas in this thread.  I haven’t spent too much time on it....I just sat here and typed it out...so if it doesn’t make any sense, I apologize.  It is in NO way meant to offend anyone who has other beliefs.
 
I was just listening to the Jermaine interview again with Piers.  I didn’t have a pen and paper with me this time because I just wanted to really LISTEN (rather than ‘hear’)...in a ‘big picture’ kinda way.

So, I didn’t write down word for word every time he said something that brought together, in my mind, a scenario that I can’t fully understand right now but can ‘see’...and, of course, it may be a case of too much ‘bigger thinking’ (like going off the deep end and straight into the padded cell  :lol: ). 

I’m sure a lot of ‘pieces’ of this scenario have been talked about before...but something about Jermaine’s interview just joined all the pieces together for me, into a ‘coherent theory’ (at this point, one missing a whole lot of detail lol...but I’m sure I could find a lot of ‘evidence’ that could make this a possibility).

What if Mike’s purpose has always been a divine one from God...literally.  We all have a purpose...but what if Mike really was born for a much, much higher purpose?  I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and ‘seeing’ him as some sort of messenger...and maybe he is...but what if he was our ‘test’....his whole ‘earthly’ existence and purpose was to ‘test’ humanity? 

I haven’t pieced together the details...like, did Mike always ‘feel’ it in him?  Did he know he was different...‘not like other guys’?  When did he ‘know’ his true purpose (during the Bad era?)?  But thinking big picture...what if all that we believe ‘happened’ to Mike in his life, was actually something that was ‘happening’ to us...a test by God?  And I, in NO way mean to diminish Mike’s struggles throughout his life...even if this ‘theory’ is true (as far-fetched as it sounds)...Mike suffered some real painS.

I’m sure I could expand on the theory here to include all the possible things Mike may have been sent to ‘test’ us on (think of every social and personal issue he touched on...and how people, for the most part, reacted).  I could also delve deeper into the underlying messages embedded in his lyrics and find plenty of times when he tried to help us with the ‘test’...give us guidance (since he knew the answers lol)... (“you can change the world”, “take a look at yourself and make a change”).  I could also look for all the times he was frustrated with our progress in the ‘test’ (“they got to hear it from you!”...”why do you keep putting it off on me?”)...or even instances when he was frustrated with God (“I look to Heaven to fulfill its prophecy, set me free!”...and all of Earth song).

But again, thinking ‘big picture’...if this ‘theory’ is true, we failed the mid-term (1993 trial) and we failed the final (2005 trial).  We are now in the ‘make-up’ phase of the test...we’re getting ‘one more chance” because it is all for L.O.V.E.... but THIS IS IT!  If we are being guided now by TS and Front (and Back as well)...then God and Mike must really want us to pass this time.  If we don’t get it right this time, there’s no going back...no more ‘tests’.

I’m really starting to ‘see’ the Murray trial as that ‘make-up’ test (it would ‘fit’ the theory).  Mike said we have four years to ‘get it right’.  I’ve been looking at that as a consecutive time frame (like a 4-year sentence)...rather than a concurrent one (exclusive vs. inclusive?).  But he also could very well have meant it concurrently (i.e. as in, we have ‘up to’ four years to get it right...the countdown starts now (2009)...go!  :lol: ).  Maybe the delays for the Murray trial to-date, have been because we weren’t yet ready for the ‘make-up’ test...and there was still time to ‘get it’.  We still have time...the four years aren’t up...but if the trial does go ahead now as scheduled...it would mean that it’s time....we ‘got it’ or at least enough people ‘got it.’  And what the heck would that mean if true??? 

Maybe Murray isn’t a symbol for ‘they’...for the ‘dark-side’.  Mike said....“Who are ‘they’?...there is no ‘they’...it is us!”  It is US (we are ‘they’ lol...anyone reading this site, or walking the earth, is a potential ‘they’....could be why Front said ”they, too, are watchin’”...of course ‘they’ are...under God, we are all equal, from the homeless to a king...we are all ‘they’).  Maybe WE are the THEY in TDCAU...and HE was talking to God and not us?  WE, humanity, is on trial here...Murray, as defendant, symbolizes all of us.  Is the world past the lies, the prejudice, the hatred, the greed, the ‘lust’....ALL the things we were tested on in the past and failed...which also includes our SILENCE over these issues?  Are we gonna pass this time...or are only a ‘chosen’ few gonna make it?  Are we those ‘chosen’ few?  If so, speaking only for myself...God must have looked wayyyy beneath my ‘layers’ to find something worthy enough in me...cause I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life.

I know this might be beyond wayyyyyy outta the box lol...and I could’ve (and probably should’ve) done a much better job at attempting to fill in the blanks of the ‘theory’...maybe the blanks will fill in on their own with time.  But I do think Jermaine’s responses apply to, and are meant for, a whole deeper level than what appears at first glance. 

For an added bonus lol (if you're still reading at this point  :lol: )...I keep thinking about the painting ‘The Book’...and have been imagining what ‘the book’ could symbolize in a ‘big picture’ kinda way.  During my ‘internet’ travels today...I came across a website talking about “The Book of Life”.  I know what it is or at least the interpretation of what it is...I grew up Catholic...but my primary Bible reading has occurred mainly in the last two years, mostly thanks to TS.  So this ‘thought’ may be tooooo far off...but something I read today made me think about Front’s post along the lines of...when this is ALL over with (the ‘test’?), we’ll all have nicknames for each other and name tags at the feast...or something along those lines.  The Book of Life is believed to have the names of the true believers...it is, in essence, humanity’s report card...with pass/fail as the only two options.  I would imagine that the Book would have our ‘real’ names or birth names...(i.e. I wouldn't be BeTheChange if I was in the book lol)....because that is the ‘nickname’ that I chose when I began this journey....

This ‘theory’ would sure tie in with the idea of this being a ‘movie’...except it would mean that Mike’s whole life was a movie (“Life is a Movie”)....and we all starred in it...and still are (but now it’s our time “to shine”...Mike took 'a backseat to the moment').  The ‘movie’ may be coming to an end with the trial....this ‘movie’ anyhow.  And if true...hold on to your seats cause it’s gonna be a Thriller of an ending...a REAL life thriller!  Just hope and pray that I've made the credit roll.

Hmm...of course, none of this may be true lol...but imagination (and wine  :lol: ) sure is a wonderful gift from God and a much under-rated one.
 
With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MJonmind on September 19, 2011, 01:27:51 AM
Yes, life is a movie! Are our names recorded in the book of life? A KEY can also be something which unlocks the code for understanding something that before was mysterious, cryptic and understood poorly. Does Michael's life hold the KEY to understanding the Bible really and truly, like it was never understood before?  Progressive revelation is a term referring to how spiritual knowledge has increased since Adam and Eve, Abraham, David, Jesus, and finally Paul said he was explaining what all those before had not quite grasped. And God wanted mankind to believe what they have for 2000 years, until the time of more enlightement is come--Now!

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Hesouttamylife
Scripture says that during the Millennium, David will be the prince, king on Earth. Scripture says he will feed the people and be their shepherd. Scripture says, a little child shall lead them during this time of peace. (sounds familiar)   God has been known to put the same spirit into different people.  Is it possible that someone with the SPIRIT of David will rule as king on Earth during the Millennium? I believe so.
Maybe that’s why Akon said he had to call Mike, Dave, when kids were pointing and whispering the the threatre. Also MJ’s disguise interview as DaveDave. What you say is what I believe--that the Spirit of God is resting in Michael, just as God's Spirit resided within Jesus 2000 years ago.

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Andrea
Remember in Miss Cast Away where Michael says, " If you do not destroy the ark, then mankind will pay dearly for the consequences."  This particular video shows that scene twice.  I'm really wondering what he meant by this, it does not seem to be just a random story line, especially when it involves Michael Jackson.
That’s it! I’d been trying to think how to interpret the deeper message behind those words about destroying the Ark, and now with I’mConvinced’s thought that the announcement of the Ark was an evil omen, that would make sense then. Funny that MJ was an agent for the Vatican--maybe exposing it!!

No one has responded to the verses I posted that show Jesus was saying his return would be in that same generation as the disciples standing there, and that they would not taste death until he returned.  http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20454.msg355224.html#msg355224  Either the Bible Christians are reading has been wrongly translated, or Jesus already came and somehow people missed him, or the Bible should not be taken literally in key areas.

Here is Daniel 12:1-4
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 
2   And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. 
3   And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 
4   But thou, O 4Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

In this passage there is no mention of the Messiah to come who will precede the resurrection of the saints clearly pictured in these verses. JW's teach that Michael was the pre-incarnate Jesus. Remember TII where Michael stood on the stage with his arms spread out as if on a cross of crucificion with 2 others on the stage also arms spread out. Then in another part the ghostly bodies raining/coming down from the ceiling as if the resurrection of the saints. We've all seen those Bible parallels in TII.

I also like how the Rev. June Gatlin called MJ  - the Prince of Peace, a name in Scripture means the Messiah or Christ. BTW, the King of POP, could be Prince of Peace (it also mentions he's on the throne of David).
http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/node/888188

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Isaiah 9:5-7
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.  
7   Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. 


I really believe we are only tapping into the tip of the iceberg of "discovering the man we never knew".  Bring it on--I'm lovin it!

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 19, 2011, 06:43:48 PM
Thinking about it there are several clues about King David.
1.  Disguised as DaveDave- Coincidence or Not ?   
2.  Portraits of Michael as the statue of David
3.  Symbols of King David such as Throne and Crown
4.  Obee singing about the King's bloodline
5.  "Soon and very soon, We are going to see the King"  song at the memorial
6. Symbols of royalty on the gates at Neverland
7.  I saw something on Youtube where it said that Michael was connected to David's bloodline and so was Jesus.  There was a family tree shown.    Many royal people connected to this including the royal family in Ethiopia.  And I think Michael was crowned there also.

So maybe Michael was chosen, and has the spirit of David just like Jesus did 2000 years ago !!!!!??  I am praying for this !!!!!

Peace and Love    /bravo/   
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: peacock7 on September 21, 2011, 06:29:47 PM
Everyone,

Wow Souza, I hear 'ya.  Great going.  I agree with some of what you explore.  There is so much that could be said about MJ.  I think it is simple though, and I mentioned it when I posted under the guest forum and will reiterate below.  MJ wants us to become an ascended, fully conscious Being of Light.  He was telling us over the years that it (LOVE) was always within us.

In my estimation, MJ has ASCENDED.  He knows what it is like.  He is enlightened.  He is gifted - for sure.  I think he decided to stay on earth to guide others to the "LIGHT."  This is why I've always called him Brilliant.  His light has always shined - and in many instances has outshined others.  This is one of the reasons I've always spoken up for his family members.  They know that he is gifted - and that he has always been.  He is a part of them.  They are his root.  Others came in and tried to sever that root for all times - but it didn't work.  I remember Papa Joe declaring that Mrs. Jackson was like Michael (God loving and fearing) on a TV shows earlier this year.  MJ said himself that he wanted to be Christlike.  I think he got his ultimate wish and gift.  And he still walks among us.

I like the piece below - because like many believe Jesus/Esu (he is known by a few names) is an Ascended Master and faked his death.  I think that is what MJ is.  Think Teddy Riley.  Think GAME OVER (MASTER).  Think Obee rapping that he was on another planet in Red Nikes.  MJ can go there, but again, I think he is still here.  They just happen to know that he can ascend at any time.  They love him so much for sticking around.

When some say that he is Archangel Michael - I think what they are really saying is that he is Jesus like.  He's ascended and has seen a light that most of us haven't yet seen.  MJ is trying to wake us up so that we won't miss that ride on the Mothership when those not living in fear will arrive in the same light that he can see and visit at any time.  I said it before, thus the four years to get it right.  Omer recently posted the word - ASCENSION - in capital letters.  It is the secret to immortality.  Some know how I feel about him.  That gives me even more hope for MJ and all of our futures.  I love him even more.  Thanks Omer/Obee.  This lets me know that he is telling the world that that word is the key - or will be in the very near future.  Finally!  Wow! 

I still say that MJ got all of his family members together and they all are enlightened to the above and on some of the below.  We have read and viewed some examples by some of his relatives.

P.S. - I see MJ is walking in full stride like only he can with this REVEALING/HOAX/DOC/ARG/MOVIE.  Hee!  See, not only is 'Life Is A Movie' - because of the illusion and duality whilst living on earth - but it is proven to be so if for no other reason that that there is such a thing as Time Travel.  For instance, one can be teleported back to the 1800s for an example - and one would actually be seeing how it was in real time for them back then.  If that doesn't prove that everything (HIStory) has already been written for this script/book/movie of a thing called life for over 25,500 years, then I don't know what will.  What MJ and them know what's up and has shared is that "Soon, very soon, we're going to see the King" and a new REALITY (Film) of living in the now with US and the UNIVERSE and GOD.


Starrgram 23
 
THE CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST
 
Jesus formed an Earth plane projection on November 16th, translated calendar time. Jesus was a Scorpio in astrophysical frequency.

Every Solar System which has reached development has a family of twelve Planets. Not all Planets have an ordinary Matter Substance outer projection. Every Planet has a fifth dimensional administration and population. Some Planets also have the responsibility of root races evolving within their fifth dimension.

On only a very few, and only very occasionally, some also have had the responsibility of a time line precipitated within their third and fourth dimensional matrixes. On only a relatively small number of those has a higher consciousness also projected into the time line.

At a point in the history of every fifth dimensional Planetary root race evolution, a Paradisiacal Christ Being enters the evolutionary ranks to reveal to the current root race their true status as eternal Christed beings. The Christ bestower is known as their Christ and teaches and exemplifies what they are to become and how to become it.

This is the point at which an Ascendant evolution is made aware of their true heritage as Christed Beings in preparation for their next stage of advancement to the seventh dimension in order to fulfill it.

The Christ bestowal is always in the fifth dimension and is always for the full term of a properly conducted nine hundred to a thousand years avatar incarnation period as related to your Earth example.

In one and only one bestowal within the entire history of a Local Universe, the Local Universe Creative Son/Daughter does the bestowal, an integral part and parcel of his/her own experiential expansion.

On Earth, the bestowal was undertaken by Christ Michael Him/Herself as part of His/Herself's experiential learning and for things to come in the new Creation. The Earth bestowal was also unusual in that it was conducted not in the Planetary fifth dimension but in the Planetary time line as that was where you were at the time. The first such bestowal ever undertaken in all of Creation.

During the bestowal, the Son aspect was given the Earth name Jesus of Nazareth. The Daughter aspect was given the Earth name Mary Magdalene.

Jesus and Mary were the joined one hundred and ninety ninth Male/Female Ovarian Soul Atom/Atum of Christ Michael, walking as a Soul Mate pair within the third dimension. Who had undergone special preparations for their responsibility starting two hundred and fifty million years ago. The Taikoteans were the first of the twelve root races to undergo evolution in Earth's fifth dimension. Jesus/Mary were the first of the Taikoteans to complete the evolution.

During the bestowal, as the single Ovarian Atom which can represent the Whole Soul Atom, the entirety of Christ Michael's seventh dimensional Whole Soul consciousness as his/her Local Universe's Creator Son/Daughter was embodied within the combined consciousnesses of their Jesus and Mary projections.  Jesus carried all of the outer aspects of the bestowal responsibility. Mary carried mainly an inner responsibility.

One of the main outer related tasks before Jesus was to translate your Mentallized Illusion precepts about death.

Death in the animal kingdom is a given part of the animal matrixes of life. There is not a Soul Atom component. The life animus of the animal kingdom is carried through their inner matrix by impulse from the Planet Celestials, just as your outer ego awareness is from your outer matrix by impulse from your Soul Atom self in residence.

Life for you on the other hand is in no way contingent upon death. You experience rude death in your present predicament only as a consequence of the lesser conditions you inherited from the animal kingdom which you inadvertently took on when going in there. It continues only because you continue to accept death as inevitable.

Make no mistake about it, Christ went to great moment two thousand years ago to make it absolutely clear that death is not the death of your incarnating Soul Atom. Just the discontinuing of your Soul Atom's current outer plane projection. Once brought forth from Alpha and Omega, Soul Atoms are forever.

You experience three crosses of relevancy. A 'Cross of Power', a 'Cross of Shame', and a version of the Cross of Power perverted by the Romans into a 'Cross of Death'.

A properly configured Cross of Power implies a properly configured outer projection. A properly configured outer projection implies living nine hundred to a thousand years. At the end of the incarnation period your outer projection is gracefully discarded. The Cross of Power represents life.

If you die instead of conventional old age, then clearly you did not come into proper alignment with your Cross of Power during your lifetime. If such a death, you wear your shame bare faced upon your sleeve. What you think typically as death is called, death upon the 'Cross of Shame'.

The 'Cross of Death' was a perverted version of the 'Cross of Power', used as a malpractice death instrument by the Romans for forcing your Soul Atom out of your projection before its time. The same is true for Earth plane capital punishments of today. They are a severe malpractice and not sanctioned.

During the many years of his youth, Jesus's whereabouts were completely unknown to family and friends. In actuality his time was spent journeying through the Arab countries of the Middle East, the countries ringing the Mediterranean, and through India. He traveled to investigate the understandings of the regions, make contacts, and undergo his outer consciousness purgings.

When Jesus finally cleared his carnality in the Temple of the Hieroglyph in the Great Pyramid, which had been prepared for the purpose nearly ten thousand years earlier by the positive Sons of the Solitude during Atlantis, he re-appeared at the age of thirty in Bethlehem ready to implement the outer portion of his bestowal responsibility.

Jesus gathered his twelve Brides of Christ and twelve Male Disciples. The twelve males and twelve females respectively held the fields for the twelve astrophysical frequencies in both male and female mode at the higher frequencies. The fields surrounded the entourage as they moved about to help in the translation of the masses. Jesus taught for three years before undergoing transfiguration on the mount at the age of thirty three.

Because he had become properly aligned, Jesus could have remained in his projection for a thousand years as the Planetary Christ. To show the fact of the death illusion in a surely demonstrative way however, Jesus had agreed that he would instead undergo an untimely death on the Cross of Shame even though he in no way otherwise needed to.

He was to have died around the age of ninety-five. He was to have resurrected after three days. He was then to have walked among you as your Dispensary Christ for the next nine hundred years. The death lie revealed would have been self destroyed once and for all. The Adamic race at large would have been introduced to the principles of Christ, which they are just beginning to now.

Coming into the time of the Crucifixion, Christ had become the distrust of the Pharisees because he did not purvey in the manner of the self appointed administers of spiritual truth at the time. It is only religious precept which views spiritual leadership as sombre robes speaking in sombre tones.

Jesus was an unrelenting Christ firebrand who was very positive in his expression and very loud about it. Which is why so many people had so much trouble accepting his Divinity at the time. Who expected someone with piety dripping from their pores.

The Caesar side was similarly concerned about tax issues surrounding his ministry. An awareness of plots to engineer a crucifixion had begun to emerge through the inner dimensional factors being monitored from on high.

When the plots against him began to become a serious possibility, Jesus agreed that should it come to pass he would undergo the much more unsavory death of crucifixion upon the Cross of Death instead. He would still resurrect anyway, the job still done from all other points of view.

If so however, you would become the sorry loser for incurring the extremely negative backlash imbalances such an unharmonious ejection from his outer projection would impose upon his massive connections upstairs.

As the continuing Local Universe's Creator Son/Daughter life line during the incarnation as their Whole Soul Atom's proxy in their projection, the whole of their Local Universe's life stream had been passing through Jesus and Mary Magdalene's consciousness as they walked about. Another part of the miracle of their birth, all done to lay the foundation stone for the greater things to come in the new Creation.

The original plan could not be continued if Jesus were to die by force. Given the high magnitude of Jesus' and Mary's connections to the mammoth links upstairs, the links would collapse leaving the rest of their Local Universe cut off from its lifestream.

Therefore, if rudely ejected from his projection, Jesus would not be able to remain for the duration of his nine hundred year planetary walk and all potential losses and consequences would befall there from upon you.

From the cosmic point of view Jesus had already accomplished nearly all things on his plate in the greater picture once he had transfigured.

He had taken away the sins of the world by giving three simple laws to live by in the living of which sin would be unknown. Namely, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', 'Love your Father and Your Mother with all your heart and all your might', and 'Love one another and serve one another as I have loved and served you'.

He had also brought to an official end Lucifer's self will rebellion of the Cosmic Overplus by decree on the mount. Stating, 'Satan get thee behind me'. An edict which went out across the thousand galaxies of the Local Universe. All the more telling because it came from his simple Earth plane projection and not from his seat on high.

Jesus had also qualified as test driver the sanctified Human bodies introduced into the Earth plane evolutionary time line by Adam and Eve twenty four thousand years earlier. Not only by having successfully established an earth plane projection at birth capable of withstanding the unprecedented pressures of bringing into its upper matrix all of his Triune Being capabilities as dispensary Christ, but also by maintaining his full functioning consciousness as the Creator Son of his whole Local Universe while in the lower dimensional outer mode projection. And also by successfully achieving the re-alignment called transfiguration.

Most importantly, at the beginning of the Piscean dispensation, he had successfully anchored into Earth's dimensional matrixes the higher Energy interdimensional factors for the great Cosmic Plan of the Creators to come such that both the Planet and evolution would be able to handle the extraordinarily intense high frequency inductional Energies starting to come in now.

From your point of view, whichever way Christ chose to demonstrate the fact of resurrection would have been the same difference. Except that in the case of death forced upon him, you would no longer have a Dispensary Christ in your midst for the next nine hundred years.

You would also call rude death upon your heads in unprecedented number through the colossal Nplus static which would result in your consciousnesses when the great frequency links to Michael's seat in the seventh dimension would gyrate and backlash in the effort to keep him higher connected through the appallingly abrupt lower frequency disconnections.

Which you did, and which did occur. And which rude death you have had over the last two thousand years in the hundreds and hundreds of millions through wars, pestilence, and genocide. You were the fashioner of your own ill fate.

It is also to your undying shame that they are the only recipient in all of Creation to have ever crucified your Christ. The Planetary Soul Atom/Atum also bears the shame and the Universe knows its travail.

Just before the Crucifixion, an effort was made by the higher powers to try and reverse the negative flow of static which was rising as a tide of resentment against Christ. Through his Reality Atom, Judas Iscariot was asked to betray Christ.

Jesus was arranged to meet the Romans in The Garden of Gethsemane. The Garden was surrounded by a protective shield. When Jesus was to be pointed out to the Roman guards, he was to have stepped forward into their custody. The higher energies would have flowed from him and his group to the guards through their rod/staff extensions, and through the guards into the masses through their rod/staff extensions in a continuing positive direction.

Peter was part of the group in the gathering. Peter's acceptance in consciousness that Jesus was indeed the Christ of prophecy was the rock upon which the kingdom was founded. Peter the guy was not the rock. Peter was the first of all to truly believe in his heart that Jesus was the true Christ of prophesy. No small feat given the fears, pre-conceptions, and congested states of consciousness at the time.

Though well cued in advance that undo fussings might ensue, Peter succumbed to ire and smote a guard's ear. The action breached the field and Jesus was seized in anger instead. The flow through the group's rods became  reversed and remained negative.

Pontius Pilot could have reversed the flow back to positive by exonerating Jesus. He chose instead to beg neutrality, allowing the flow to continue unabated and to magnify. Because free will cannot be usurped no matter the consequence, Jesus' fate was accepted.

Jesus did not die on the cross. He was still alive when they took him down. The authorities said nothing else it would have revealed his greater nature who had expected him to die within the first half day or so. Jesus officially left his projection in the cave later in preparation for undergoing his resurrection into a fully configured fifth dimensional Being of Morontia Substance through frequency assistance from Mary Magdalene. Who remained outside the cave throughout the three day proceedings.

It is a point to remember that the onus of blame should not be put on Pilot, Peter, members of the Sanhedrin, or anyone else individually. Judas Iscariot should not be scapegoat for only doing what he was asked to do in Reality. He did not suspect there could be a crucifixion, he thought he was turning Jesus over to the tax collectors.

The point to remember also is that no one had any more blame for what happened than anybody else. Your non-acceptance in your mass consciousness of the full Christ frequency Jesus was carrying was the problem. Which provided optimum conduit for the negative intelligences in the background to interfere, who did not want to see Christ's successes end their illusionary 'fools in paradise' existence once and for all.

Peter could have chosen a less temperate action to be sure. Pontius Pilot could have shown more jurisprudence. You could have paid a lot closer attention to the mighty urgings of your inner Realities, which had been raising up a cacophony of attention in the presence of the Christ opportunity before you.

Your outer consciousness conditions had not yet been properly cleared enough though, given the very short time in which Jesus had been working with the Apostles and in that these things take time, even for the most ardent. It was your general non acceptance of Jesus as Christ in your midst which provided the conduit for the negatives. Not anything anyone in particular did or did not do.

The inner action of Christ's bestowal was all but fully successful. In the outer action of the bestowal, the original hope had been to at least gain a toe hold against the prevailing negative conditions, which it had. So in the end result the crucifixion was allowed to go ahead.

Following the crucifixion, Jesus successfully resurrected, proving to finality your mentallized illusions about death and proving to finality the capability of the new outer projection physical body to handle the full transmutation of ordinary Matter Substance into the higher frequencies of Morontia. A miracle of miracles in its own right and such capability to become ingredient in the things to come in the new Creation.

Following the crucifixion and after the resurrection, Jesus continued to work for nearly forty years in the fifth dimension while his mammoth disrupted frequency links quietly underwent re-configuration to back upstairs. He projected in visibility from time to time to your third dimensional awareness in places all around the Planet by lowering his frequency of visibility to the third dimensional band of light.

Throughout the bestowal, including the forty years following the resurrection, the full Triune capacity of the Creators was upheld by a triune hook up of John the Divine who stood at the right side of Christ, John the Baptist who stood at the left side of Christ, and Jesus and Mary themselves as Christ in the middle.

John the Divine upheld the Intelligence factor of the Father, John the Baptist upheld the Substance factor of the Mother, and Jesus and Mary stood together as the Christ Energy Factor of the Only Begotten Son/Daughter. After the death of John the Baptist, James the brother of Jesus stood in as proxy.

John the Divine was asked to incarnate a century later as the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurilius to try and help steer Rome into a more positive direction. Through his inner action he is regarded as one of the greatest emperors in Roman history and is numbered among the five good emperors.

He also stands out as one of the greatest intellectual rulers in Western Civilization. He was impressed with a firm desire for peace which manifested itself in prolific philosophic and poetic writings which he quietly handed out to trusted friends and allies within the Roman Senate.

In his domestic policy, he was a champion of the poor for whom he founded schools, orphanages, hospitals, and alleviated the burden of taxes. He also tried to humanize criminal laws and the treatment of slaves by their masters. He was also particularly concerned with public welfare and even sold off most of his personal possessions to try and lessen the effects of famine and plague in the empire.

Through outer consciousness acquired conditions of the Roman State on the other hand, John the Divine, who had been undergoing grooming to become a positive Son of  the Solitude in Atlantis before being taken out of his outer projection by an untimely archaeological mishap, had been forced to hide his spirituality for the most part at the risk of instant death. Who came to relish the coliseum and did not dispose well towards Christians.

Such are the risks undertaken by you anytime in an incarnation within Earth's current turbulent time line conditions regardless of past, present, or Soul Atom attributions. Once a Saint always a Saint only works in the higher dimensions. And until the last of the vestige lesser conditions on Earth are finally translated away once and for all and all of you are working back again in the total Christ glory of the Triune Beings by which you were brought into Creation as Children of the Creators, so it will remain.   
   
Continued  -  Starrgram 24
 
By the way, the home page is littered with interesting pieces.

http://www.revelatorium.com/Starrgram23.htm
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on September 21, 2011, 08:07:37 PM
Thankyou so much peacock7.  That helps clarify things.  Thank you also for posting information and the link for Stargram23,24.  Great information to pull things together.  I have to read it over again.  A lot of information and some of it is new to me.   Peace and Love.   
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: peacock7 on October 04, 2011, 12:31:45 PM
No problem Don'twalkaway.  Sharing is one of the reasons we are here.  I love this MAN'S LAUGHTER trial.  Good one Souza.

"Let the sunshine (Light) in - deed."

I think Michael has known of a lot of future events that some of us have recently started learning about.  For instance, in my opinion when he sang about "making the world a better place by healing it (Earth)", I think he meant as it pertained to this one and the next one.

Interesting piece below.

[blink]Why the Moon Must be Removed[/blink]

"I have left one very important aspect of the magnetic pole shift for the end. The moon, as some may know, is an artificial satellite and has been placed by the Anunnaki in orbit as to create dark negative energies and increase the density of our planet. It has a very negative overall impact on the human ethereal fields and influence to a large extent the functioning of the three lower chakras, which are responsible for the human sexual, carnal, and other compulsive actions. Most of the human karma on this planet has been engendered by the three lower chakras of the incarnated entities. All wars, atrocities, and other crimes are driven by the energies of the lower human chakras.

In the past, the Orion Empire had huge bases on the moon, from where it controlled earth and humanity. These bases were taken over by the Forces of Light two years ago, as I have written in my essay "Why the Many Delays in the Ascension Scenario"   For this reason, the moon must be removed from the earth's orbit, when the magnetic pole shift has taken place. This artificial satellite of the Dark Forces no longer comply with the harmonious high frequency energies from the 4th and 5th dimensions that will flood earth after the shift. This operation is also necessary, as otherwise the new vertical position of the planet's axis with respect to the sun`s plane could not be established and maintained.

Now, brethren, all these deep surgical and cosmetic operations of the earth`s crust of truly cosmic proportions will take place in the course of this year. If you were so emotionally stirred by the small comet Elenin and its association with one of the many mother ships of the GF that are positioned around our planet, how would your react to these apocalyptic news?

Therefore I ask you to join my opinion that, notwithstanding these cataclysmic events, the First Wave of Ascended human Masters will be the actual key event for humanity that  will show the way how to overcome the physical calamities and proceed indomitably on the way to mass Ascension. And please do not commence to ponder and quarrel about which changes will come first, and what part of the globe will be more devastated, as you have done extensively with such trivialities as the comet Elenin. Think instead about your redemption, which is Ascension."

http://www.stankovuniversallaw.com/breaking-astral-news/themagneticpoleshiftiscominginthisfallaspartofearthsascension

P.S. - Diane Ross is performing (touring) all over the US here lately.  Last week she sang her heart out the night of the first day of the trial.  NOT!  Anyway, one writer reviewed her concert and mentioned that her last costume change was very Cosmic, as it simulated two galaxies colliding.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  MANHATTAN huh?

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 26, 2011, 09:50:37 PM
Just wanted to *bump* this thread for anyone interested in reading the posts and/or sharing their own thoughts.  I made mention of this thread in the Nov 11 thread because several members were bringing up great points that tie in with things discussed in this thread...but I couldn't find the thread/link when I posted about it. 

I find these theories fascinating and would love to read more people's thoughts on them. 

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: 2good2btrue on November 27, 2011, 03:25:02 AM
I will only add to this post by quoting "Michaels own words"......please enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5BqKgPHYRQ&feature=related
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5BqKgPHYRQ&feature=related[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF1O6md5cJI
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF1O6md5cJI[/youtube]
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: mimi248 on November 27, 2011, 04:18:02 AM
and also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7pGTkT-KaQ&feature=related

Are you Listening... :?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 09:19:54 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Think about it please..
What if Mj was really dead on june 25 th 2009 BUT hoax also exists . What if MJ wasn't only human but he really was ARCHANGEL MICHAEL. Think about it cause you have to think outside the box and expose AL theories . Is it a coincidence that MJ and Jesus Christ were both born of a father named JOSEPH and katherine equal " pure " in hebrew. Is it a coincidence that MJ is the 7th child ? is it a coincidence that he is the only one gifted of several talents ALL are PERFECTION Dance, sing, even he can draw...  is it a coincidence that his name is MICHAEL JACKSON ( oth 7 letters) traducted as Who is like god the son of Jacob? is it a coincidencee that he's the only one who has VITILIGO. remember, Vitiligo touch only 2% of the whole world!!
Maybe michael kne when he was going to die, for a very long time before. because MJ is connected with god and higher source so it could be a theorie. then, maybe he decided to create a fake hoax ( a hoax within a hoax) in order to find some believers on june 25 th , and also denounce all injustice ( bad justice, bad government etc..)  So, what if he really died on june 25th  the same as jesus did too ? On the same day, family and knowers created the hoax at the same time , this could explain why there was 2 ambulances for exemple. i'm sorry for my bad english :s . They showed us the fake pictures and video on TV and HID all real proof that mj was really dead  BUT if he  really is the Archangel Michael, family KNOWS that he will resurrect very soon. this could explain " we are going to see the king". or when latoya wrote on the funeral book that she is impatient to see his brother on this earth AGAIN.
watch this please
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcJprDeyLRE&feature=related .  You can CLEARLY see how paris cried!

I saw, blanket, paris, prince, katherine, jermaine, and others CRY during the memoria. pictures don't lie. these are not FAKE tears. MJ is really dead at the moment BUT will resurect. and finallly this theorie can explain " the man you've never seen before" . And Although,  When JC resurected, he had a new body, he came with an other form, an younger and beautiful body. the spiritual body .
What if mj will resurrect the same as jesus did? with  a YOUNGER nody, with his spiritual body !!
this could explain WHY all movies , books , cds came out since 2011 show us ONLY mj pictures of thriller era why not after? will he come back with this apparence?
I just think it's an embedeed structure.

I am not going to call you delusional like Gina, and I think that Gina should be careful with her wording here, most definitely since it's an empty statement without any argumentation, but that aside...


The following is true, I did not make up any of it. I am my parent's first child, like Jesus was. My father is a carpenter, Jesus' father was a carpenter. My mother's name is Maria and she was born in September which makes her a virgin, Jesus' mother was called Maria and she was a virgin. My first name has 7 letters and my first, middle and last name combined make 21, or 777. If the world will go down this spiral at the speed it is going now, I will probably even die at the same age as He did. So if you look at it that way (name coincidences etc.), I actually have more in common with Jesus than Michael has. That's about it with the common things I share with Jesus, but you get my point.

Although I know that atheists will probably click away after reading just a few words, I truly hope that they will read this and watch the videos I will post. It might change your mind...

Warning: this will be a long post and reading it and watching all the videos may take you days, but can also change your way of thinking in a good way. Credits go to my Bible teacher, who will probably say that the credits go to God, which is most likely true.

Since a few moths I have been studying the Bible pretty intensely, and learned that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. Before becoming human, Jesus was known as Archangel Michael:

The 'voice' of The Son raising the dead
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:25-29)

The 'voice' of the archangel raising the dead
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" (Thessalonians 4:16)


Of course you could say that it could be any of the archangels, but in my opinion there is just one archangel: Michael. Some believe there are more, but Gabriel for example, is never referred to as archangel in the Bible, but only as angel. Thessalonians 4:16 says THE archangel, not AN archangel, which also indicates that there is just one archangel. One archangel would make sense, since it means either 'lead angel' or leader of the angels. Why would you have two leaders of a group? It doesn't even have to mean the archangel is an angel himself, although Jesus is being referred to as angel in the Bible (Galatians 4:14).

Daniel 12:1-2:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

This indicates the second coming (of Christ). "...the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people" tells us that Michael is very important and who other than God (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) himself stand for the people? And also, who would be leader of the angels? It would make the most sense that The Father would make His own Son the leader, instead of any other angel. We all know how angels can rebel against God (Lucifer anyone?). So such an important position would not be given to just any angel in my opinion.

Jesus also said this in Luke 10:18;

"And he said unto them, I beheld (saw) Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

Satan (or Lucifer) was cast out of Heaven before mankind was created, which means Jesus had a divine existence thousands of years before he lived on earth, because apparently he was there to see it happening.

So unless you think Michael is another human existence of Jesus (archangel Michael) and thus part of the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), Michael can not be Archangel Michael. If he would be, then God decided to change his script (the Bible) and we know from the Bible itself, that he would not do that:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35)


What seems more likely is that Michael (MJ) wants to help God in the final battle between good and evil. If there is anyone on planet earth that would be able to help God gathering the army for that (the 144,000), then it would be him because he is known and loved all over the world. That would not mean that he will be the leader of that army, because that will be Michael the archangel (Jesus):

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:11-16)

That gives another meaning to Michael's Army of Love, right? And since God = Love, we could also say: Michael's Army of God.

I must say that for a long time I have thought that the concept of the 144,000 was an unfair one. Why just 144,000? Are there only 144,000 out of those billions of people that are good enough? But I have read the book of Revelation again, and it seems that the 144,000 that are mentioned there, are merely those who are especially chosen for the battle. They were redeemed from earth (Revelation 14:3), which indicates that those 144,000 are alive on earth when they are sealed. There are many people on earth who would be worthy to be one of the 144,000 of God, but they already died. Would that mean that they will not be saved by God, merely because they are already dead? That doesn't make much sense. I think Mother Theresa and Lady Diana (to name just two) would have deserved to be saved as well. Revelation is not easy to read, but what I understood from it, is that the great tribulation will not begin until God has sealed his servants:

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand." (Revelation 7:1-8)

This is Revelation 7, there are 22 chapters. If the 144,000 were the only ones chosen by God to be saved, then we would find them mentioned as being sealed later on in the book. But what I understood from it, is that not everyone will be sealed with either the mark of the beast, or of God. I think most will NOT be sealed. Those who are not sealed and will be faithful and loyal to God, will be written down in his book, those who will follow the beast, will not. Those not sealed will be tested during the great tribulation and they will have a choice when that time comes. The ones that will get the seal of the beast, will probably be sealed before that, as well as the 144,000, who will likely be sealed before the great tribulation and will be part of God's army to fight against the beast.

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:1-6)

So it seems that all will die in the final days (when the 144,000 battle against evil), and those who are not marked by the beast (will not worship or follow him) will be resurrected to live in the Millenium (first resurrection). But after those 1000 years, Satan will be set loose again and he will deceive the people again:

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Revelation 20:7-9)

That could mean that is a second and final test to see who is really faithful, because the dead (those who died before this battle), will not be resurrected until after the Millenium, when there will be a new earth:

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."(Revelation 20:12-15)

So everyone that ever lived, will be judged at the end of the Millennium. Those worthy will get eternal life and live in the new earth, the rest will be cast into the "lake of fire", whatever that may be. So apparently you will not have to be one of the 144,000 to be saved. The 144,000 are the soldiers of love (God) who will fight in the final battle against Satan. This will require a group of very strong people, both mentally and physically.


Many will say that what is written in the Bible, is pure BS or should not be taken literally. When I was young I thought the first was true (Bible being total BS), when I got older I thought it should not be taken literally, but since I have been studying it, I canged my mind again and think that most of it IS literal, with exception of a few things maybe (certain visions or parallels for example). Many of the things in the Bible seem impossible, like people being 900 years old in the beginning, God creating the earth in 6 days (rested on the seventh), and I had many questions about that, like how a creationist (for example) could explain the Dinosaurs living 65 million years ago plus many others. I saw some of the videos of Kent Hovind (who is in prison at the moment, hmmmm) and of Ron Wyatt (ridiculed for his archeological discoveries (many of them), and dead at 66, hmmmmm) and I was amazed. Kent Hovind was a science teacher, and therefore doesn't only want to make you believe certain things because the Bible says so, he actually backs up his claims with scientific evidence. Turns out that creation and science go hand in hand. I am at part 5 now, haven't watched them all yet (they are pretty long). Part 4 (lies in the textbooks) shows why Michael decided to have the kids home-teached. The oldest ones have now enough knowledge to go to school, Blanket might not have (yet), that is probably why he still is being home-teached. Just watch it, he has a great sense of humor and I promise you will not get bored.


Age of the Earth
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szBTl3S24MY[/youtube]

Garden of Eden
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoRSBGD7vbA[/youtube]

Dinosaurs
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQIF7Yh3hI[/youtube]

Lies In The Textbooks
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8GgrUposII[/youtube]

Dangers of Evolution
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUKqWmtc6zY[/youtube]

Hovind Theory
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY0rj-TEx4o[/youtube]

Questions and Answers
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRAnrMHU0hw[/youtube]

100 Reasons Why Evolution Is stupid
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DDIe_2cHM[/youtube]

Here is a video of Ron Wyatt's discovery of Sodom and Gomorrah (Divine judgment was then passed upon Sodom and Gomorrah along with two other cities that were completely consumed by fire and brimstone.) Many believe that this never literally happened, probably because they can't believe it. But the fact that you have never seen anything like that happen, doesn't mean it didn't, or the fact that you don't believe it, doesn't make it non-existent. Ron Wyatt shows that this most likely DID happen, all those years ago.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQHQ992Wnw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dkoSJt6xfY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTVFk1HK3Y[/youtube]

BTW: Ron's documentary about his discovery of the Ark of the Covenant and the garden tomb (tomb Jesus was buried in before his resurrection) is amazing, you should watch it as well, it's also on YouTube.

Michael said: It's all for love... We have come up with so many different things to figure out what he meant with that, it's most likely the most simple and literal meaning: It's all for God.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on November 27, 2011, 10:25:53 AM
I invite people to read the bible,believers or atheists, more than the entire last book known as Revelations or apocalypse, The prophecies more shocking in the Bible is found in this book.
These events, the last and most astonishing panoramic view toward the future, personifies revelations of events highlights, some already completed, most of them still future. The book presents, almost entirely, as visions that he claims to have received from God or Jesus Christ (Ap. 1:1-2) and is written in a language quite different from that used in other books.

In all the sights of momentary "things which must happen soon ... " (Revelation 1:1) that John reveals, none is more intriguing and astounding that the vision of "the Beast" of chapter 13 of Revelation. This is not the first time she has appeared to biblical prophets. On the basis of the detail, it is clear that this is the same creature frightening whose description has already been registered three times. John personally had seen him twice. Daniel had also seen 600 years earlier.

This beast represents the re-emergence of the Roman Empire, which becomes the COUNTERFEITING SATÁNICA ON A GLOBAL SCALE of the kingdom of God. This rule shall be ruled at the global level by a single person, a single man, the Antichrist, who will be the representative of Satan on earth. Rome will regain its greatness. In a way that controlled the ancient world, it will also be the headquarters for the new world order,......... the dream of the United Nations.



It is clear that the Antichrist (person) will be the falsification that Satan will present Christ and that the Roman Empire restored, or World Order, it will be a falsification of the kingdom of God on earth.



The antichrist will be a unique individual in its genre, devoid of predecessors or successors. This will be the "new constantine", the ruler of the Roman Empire restored World ...



"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and kept the things written in it; because the time is near." ( Revelation 1:3 )
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: mimi248 on November 27, 2011, 11:08:53 AM
So now he is the Antichrist?  WTF??
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 27, 2011, 11:39:06 AM
I sorry guys but jesus dosent exist and the bible wasnt written by god, it was wrttien by men.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 27, 2011, 11:40:26 AM
@Souza...thanks for posting those videos.  I'm halfway through the first one and I'm really enjoying it so far.  I've always been unsure of how to 'interpret' the Bible...whether or not it's meant to be literal.  At this point in my understanding (which is very limited because I've never read the Bible cover to cover, I've never had a Bible teacher, and the 'church' has clouded a LOT of my understanding)...I would say that some of it is literal and some figurative.  But I am always interested in learning more and looking at things from a different perspective...so thanks again for the videos and your post.  I will most definitely be watching them all and with my kids but it will take several sit-downs/days to get through them and 'processing' the info might take significantly longer lol.

God bless!

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jacilovesmichael on November 27, 2011, 11:54:20 AM
Great insights guys. Thanks for starting this topic Souza. I know there have been similar topics, and I've believed most of this since before this hoax. But I think now is the time to start looking more carefully at the big picture and taking it more seriously. I just want to add that a name is just a name...whomever the messiah comes back as, whether he calls himself Jesus, Michael, or Johnny Knoxville... doesn't matter. It's the essence that matters. We are all spiritual beings having a human experience. We are all prone to death in this life, it is unavoidable. But energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Just because Jesus died in the flesh doesn't mean he can't reincarnate as Michael or someone else. Does that mean Michael is Jesus? Maybe. In my opinion, we are all of the same source, so it's not like we are putting him on a pedestal. Like he said himself, "we are all one". I don't think we are meant to worship anyone. That's the problem I've come to have with religion. I think the sole purpose of all religions is to wake us up to our true nature and be the little piece of god that we are. But we've been conditioned to be unaware of our own power and inner knowing. Michael Jackson woke me up to ME when I was very young, and thus I have loved him ever since. We are all mirrors for one another, you know? Anyway. I don't think we will all agree on this topic 100%, but it is progress that we are able to speak openly about it and entertain ideas without necessarily accepting them. In fact, with the way the world is today, I think it's very important not to accept ANYTHING as truth. We must let our minds stay open at all times or we'll definitely miss something.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on November 27, 2011, 12:05:42 PM
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So now he is the Antichrist?  WTF??



Who said that?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 27, 2011, 01:25:14 PM
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I sorry guys but jesus dosent exist and the bible wasnt written by god, it was wrttien by men.

Hy Iamambeliever  :) ,I'm glad you wrote that,because now I can tell I also thought at this ,thank you  :) .Mmmm his bodyguards even mentioned that Michael reads "Bible" every day ,intresting,I wonder what they meant with that ,because I always saw him with books for children and books about art,and history  :? .Anyway here is what the bodyguards said:

Quote
Q: I have read alot of places that Michael read his bible alot in the thriller era and I was wondering if you ever saw him reading the bible or pray?

- He read the bible daily.

Q: Could you share what MJ's religious beliefs was? Was he a Christian?

- No comment on that. Oh believe me I know where he stood religiously...Im just not getting into that.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 27, 2011, 01:32:48 PM
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I sorry guys but jesus dosent exist and the bible wasnt written by god, it was wrttien by men.

Hy Iamambeliever  :) ,I'm glad you wrote that,because now I can tell I also thought at this ,thank you  :) .Mmmm his bodyguards even mentioned that Michael reads "Bible" every day ,intresting,I wonder what they meant with that ,because I always saw him with books for children and books about art,and history  :? .Anyway here is what the bodyguards said:

Quote
Q: I have read alot of places that Michael read his bible alot in the thriller era and I was wondering if you ever saw him reading the bible or pray?

- He read the bible daily.

Q: Could you share what MJ's religious beliefs was? Was he a Christian?

- No comment on that. Oh believe me I know where he stood religiously...Im just not getting into that.

Well, isn't that INTRIGUING???  Damn why couldn't he have answered THAT???   I'd sure love to know that answer.  But, WHY he didn't is good too.  I guess Michael made his faith KNOWN though from THAT answer!
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 27, 2011, 01:50:41 PM
@Souza:

Wow.. Splendid post Souza! Although I might not agree with you about Jesus being the archangel Michael... Well, he can’t be both the Son of God, ONE with God AND the archangel Michael, can he? ;) Let's have a look!

Please refer to the following bible verses:

Hebrews 1:5-9 (about Jesus and the angels, read Hebrews)
Isaiah 9:6
1 Timothy 3:16
Rom 10:9
John 1:1-4
John 5:17,18
Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 43:10,11
2 Peter 1:1
Colossians 1:16
John 8:24
John 8:58
John 14:9-11
Acts 4:12
Acts 20:28
Revelation 1:5,6
Revelation 5:8-9
Titus 2:13
Revelation 22:13-16

Jesus (before he became human) was Christ, one with God (Philippians 2:5-7).
It is why they crucified Him, because Jesus made himself equal to God and that is blasphemy according the Jews. “Crucify him!” (John 10:30-33) Thank God Jesus gave his life (for us), he did not lose it: John 10:17-18

When reading the bible it is very important to take the “<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis">exegesis</a>” and “<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics">hermeneutics</a>” into consideration.

Two basic questions and one rule:

-   What did this passage of scripture mean to the people back then when it was first written?
-   What does this mean to us today?

-   Always read and interpret the bible passages in its whole context.

I would recommend everyone to read “<a href="http://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Read_the_Bible_for_All_Its_Worth.html?id=b054-T4A2osC">How to Read the Bible for All it’s Worth</a>” by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart. Really sound teachings and one of the best theological books I have ever read.

About the creation, science, evolution and so on, I think this could be in your interest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIZAAh_6OXg (just ignore the polish subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4u_2RkQfAo


Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6-7

 bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 04:30:13 PM
@jono

I have looked up all of the scriptures you posted, and none of them indicate that Jesus can not be archangel Michael. Hebrews actually supports it:

Quote
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (Hebrews 1:1-9)

The Son is the EXPRESS IMAGE of the PERSON of the Father. Better than the angels. Nowhere in the Old Testament is "Christ" mentioned. So if he would have been called Christ before becoming human, then why is there no record of that in the OT?

I think you mean that you do not believe in the trinity concept. That God is the Sun, the Father and the Holy Spirit; 3 different existences, yet one God. Is that what you mean? If that is the case, then why would the Son be begotten of the Father, and being made the express image of the PERSON of The Father? That indicates that they are two different persons. Michael means 'Who is like God' for a reason. Why would the archangel Michael have been named 'Who is like God' by God? Probably, because he is! His express image.

There are more passages that show that the Son and the Father are two different persons:

Quote
"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." (John 6:46)

"No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."(John 1:18)

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." (1 John 4:12)


But there are also passages that say that some DID see God:

Quote
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Genesis 32:30)

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle."(Exodus 33:11)

"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple." (Isaiah 6:1)

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (Job 42:5)

So what is it? Have people seen God or haven't they? Both is true. No one has ever seen God, the Father, but many have seen God, the Son:

Quote
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The Word (the Son) was with God in the beginning, and he also was God. So two, but yet one: God.

Quote
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:7-8)


In the story of Abraham offering his son (Isaac), are also passages that support that Michael the Archangel is the divine existence of Jesus before coming human:

Quote
"And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Quote
"And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Quote
"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee."

THE angel of the Lord called out to Abraham, yet the angel is also God. So there are a lot of supporting scriptures that Michael the archangel (leader of the angels, different and better than the other, created angels) is God (the Son).
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 04:53:37 PM
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Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6-7


Very good point, the words of Jesus Christ, Son of God.

Interesting topic.
I can not claim to have read the whole Bible, because the old testament is hard to go through. The new testament seems easier to comprehend. I can only say that I was left to make a choice to follow the christian teachings or not and it has been a long way.

@RK and @forstAMoon, I like your points too, although I don not necessary agree 100 %.

It is true that pride is the number one sin. Due to pride one of the arch angels was expelled from heaven. Greed is mentioned as sin many times too. From what I understand, those who follow the God commandments are brothers, sisters and mothers of Jesus. This is what he said, but I can not find the exact reference.

It is my understanding that God can not dwell in a heart that has pride. I think that Michael Jackson was a very gifted man and may have been on a spiritual quest himself, just by reading some of his lyrics and poems. But, a messenger of God would be a too big statement. MJ wanted to run the biggest show on Earth, impress everyone and that is a trace of pride or lack of humility and God would only talk to humble people. If Michael believed that God was channeling music to him it may have actually been the other one doing that. In that case I would feel only compassion for a human that was deceived and deceived others. Now, you talk about the one eye symbol a lot, the all seeing eye. It can clearly be seen on the cover of a well known book "Moonwalker".

I noticed that when most people talk about Christianity, they don't make a difference between various denominations. They are not in communion with one another, not to mention that they call one another 'heretics'. So, whatever has been done by a particular denomination is being mentioned as a wrongdoing of all Christians and that is not quite right. With a bit more research on the internet one can find interesting things about Christianity. May be research on resurrection would be a good starting point.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on November 27, 2011, 05:14:31 PM
God said no Angel:


"You are my son;"


"today I have given life".


He also said no Angel:


"I am your father"


"and he shall be my son."


 And when he sent his son to this world, he ordered:


"That all my Angels him worship".


In addition, when God speaks about los Angeles, says:


 "I convert my angels into the wind,"


"and my servants in flames of fire."


 But when he talks about his son says:


"You are God"

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: grossomodo on November 27, 2011, 05:23:38 PM
This post of yours, Souza, left me speechless. I always wondered who Michael really is. Lately I supposed he is Enoch, the prophet, who, along with Elijah, are supposed to come at the end of time to preach and warn us about the antichrist. But dates don't really fit and I have my doubts. Anyway, one of Enoch's sons is Metusala (Metusalem)  who is the father of Lameh, who is the father of Noah! Enoch never actually died, he was 'taken' by God to heaven. In the end of time, when he is supposed to come, he would preach for three and a half years (?) ( it's said he'll be able to make jews recognise Jesus Christ as the Mesiah) and then be killed. But he'll ressurect in three and a half days?! - could this be three and a half years as in 2012-2013?! He was also reffered to as "the seventh from Adam".

I sincerely doubt Michael is Jesus. I read on an orthodox related website that: "whenever you hear that Christ came down on Earth, you should know that's the antichrist". And I really believe that.

But I'm sure Michael has a divine nature with a strong humanitarian message who is far from being all spread. I'm sure you all feel that. Believe me guys, I'm pretty obsessed by this idea but I can't really figure it out yet.

Love u all!
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 27, 2011, 05:28:30 PM
Souza, you are truly amazing me.  I have new found respect for you.  You explain well, back it up and that's what finding God's truth is about. 

Through my 30 or so years of bible and religious studies, I have to say that you hit these scriptures head on and speak truthfully.  You have pointed out what few people know or believe.  Hopefully your research will lead others to look into what you see and see also.  What you tell is truly what is most important.  Beyond Michael or the hoax.  (sorry, I love him too)

I sincerely feel that Michael would NOT have wanted anyone to equate him to a messiah, or archangel and never tried to make people believe that.  And as I studied the religion he was brought up in, know he never would have believed or felt that way.

I love you all, mean to hurt no one, just speak my heart the same as you all.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 06:00:06 PM
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Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6-7


Very good point, the words of Jesus Christ, Son of God.

Interesting topic.
I can not claim to have read the whole Bible, because the old testament is hard to go through. The new testament seems easier to comprehend. I can only say that I was left to make a choice to follow the christian teachings or not and it has been a long way.

@RK and @forstAMoon, I like your points too, although I don not necessary agree 100 %.

It is true that pride is the number one sin. Due to pride one of the arch angels was expelled from heaven. Greed is mentioned as sin many times too. From what I understand, those who follow the God commandments are brothers, sisters and mothers of Jesus. This is what he said, but I can not find the exact reference.

It is my understanding that God can not dwell in a heart that has pride. I think that Michael Jackson was a very gifted man and may have been on a spiritual quest himself, just by reading some of his lyrics and poems. But, a messenger of God would be a too big statement. MJ wanted to run the biggest show on Earth, impress everyone and that is a trace of pride or lack of humility and God would only talk to humble people. If Michael believed that God was channeling music to him it may have actually been the other one doing that. In that case I would feel only compassion for a human that was deceived and deceived others. Now, you talk about the one eye symbol a lot, the all seeing eye. It can clearly be seen on the cover of a well known book "Moonwalker".

I noticed that when most people talk about Christianity, they don't make a difference between various denominations. They are not in communion with one another, not to mention that they call one another 'heretics'. So, whatever has been done by a particular denomination is being mentioned as a wrongdoing of all Christians and that is not quite right. With a bit more research on the internet one can find interesting things about Christianity. May be research on resurrection would be a good starting point.

Can you support the statement that Satan was cast out of heaven just because of his pride? He wanted to sit on God's throne, like the Son sat on God's throne. He was jealous of the Son (archangel Michael), but was he cast out merely for that feeling of pride? If that were true, why was there a war in heaven?

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." (Revelation 12:7-10)

If he would have been cast out of heaven just because of a feeling (pride), God could have just send him away. But the Bible says that there was a war, which means Satan rebelled against God, and probably even was violent.

Pride is not the number one sin. In my opinion, it is not a sin at all. What is wrong with being proud? Proud of yourself for finally losing those extra pounds, or proud of your children when they come home with good grades? I see nothing wrong with that. Wanting something for yourself that is not yours is a sin, and that is exactly what Satan's sin was: he wanted the position of archangel Michael, he wanted to sit on God's throne. These are the 10 commandments, the last one was likely inspired by Satan:

#1
And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

#2
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 #3
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

#4
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (BTW: Sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday...)

#5
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

#6
Thou shalt not kill.

#7
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

#8
Thou shalt not steal.

#9
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

#10
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


As for Michael (MJ): he is human, he is not God. He is not perfect, none of us is. But saying that Satan made him write his lyrics? Could you post which ones and why? And even though human and therefore a sinner (we all are), yet he definitely has a big role in the times to come. I am certain of that. The greatest show on earth is not planned so that he would make himself a god, it is planned to help God, besides being for entertainment. And after all, he is an entertainer too and there is nothing wrong with working. God says that you can work 6 days a week.


As for the Moonwalk book cover, did you see how it looks like when you open it? There has been a time Michael was on message (controlled), but this cover looks like a subtle f**k you to TBTB. "You think I'm with you? Think again." That's how I see it.

(http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/UncleDearest/Michael_Jackson_Autobiography_Moon_Walk_Open.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: paula-c on November 27, 2011, 06:13:16 PM
I  like the way  writes  Souza in crude form and direct rr/
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Starchild on November 27, 2011, 06:41:13 PM
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We are all spiritual beings having a human experience. We are all prone to death in this life, it is unavoidable. But energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Just because Jesus died in the flesh doesn't mean he can't reincarnate as Michael or someone else. Does that mean Michael is Jesus? Maybe. In my opinion, we are all of the same source, so it's not like we are putting him on a pedestal. Like he said himself, "we are all one". I don't think we are meant to worship anyone. That's the problem I've come to have with religion. I think the sole purpose of all religions is to wake us up to our true nature and be the little piece of god that we are. But we've been conditioned to be unaware of our own power and inner knowing. Michael Jackson woke me up to ME when I was very young, and thus I have loved him ever since. We are all mirrors for one another, you know? Anyway. I don't think we will all agree on this topic 100%, but it is progress that we are able to speak openly about it and entertain ideas without necessarily accepting them. In fact, with the way the world is today, I think it's very important not to accept ANYTHING as truth. We must let our minds stay open at all times or we'll definitely miss something.

AMEN.  Agree with the portion of your post above, Jacilovesmichael, particularly the underlined text.  This is an interesting thread (as are all the threads regarding spirituality, IMO).  Here's my perspective, and it's way outside the box as well.
 :)
 

It is human nature to look outside ourselves for answers to life's mysteries.  And given that fear is part of the foundation of human consciousness, when we seek spiritual "answers," it stands to reason we are generally looking to pacify our fear of the unknown.  A popular saying of MJ's that we quote on the forum is "just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel."  How about expanding that phrase to say, "Just because it's told or taught to us doesn't make it truth"?  Upon physical birth into this world, we have no knowledge or concept of the End of the World, saviors, second-comings, resurrections, the Ark of the Covenant, the Son of God, Jesus, the Archangel Michael, TPTB, the NWO, the Illuminati, the Bible, the Quran, the various world religions, and so on.  Rather, awareness of and belief in these concepts is taught to us by our fellow human beings already present on the planet as it was created and passed down to them, generation to generation, age to age.  For example, "we," humans on this forum, are in the process of creating written future history (e.g., potential literature, folklore, mythology, and "sacred texts" for others to perhaps study and quote as truth) to be passed down to our descendants just as it was passed down to us--this is how it happens.  In short, we are schooled in the ways of the world upon birth on the planet.  But WHO are we?  It stands to reason that we are consciousness--individually (having experiences in our respective physical bodies from lifetime to lifetime) and collectively (as we extend our awareness outside of the box of the "physical reality" we've been taught).  Certain people may come along and live their lives in such a way that it causes us to think outside of what we've been taught, but if, for example, Michael is divine--an angel, a savior, a saint--then so are we all.  Consciousness, or Soul, Is--another part of me, another part of Michael, another part of the collective whole.  Soul equals Soul.  Therefore, how is it possible for you or me to be holier than thou if we are part of the same collective whole of Soul?  Soul does not need a savior because Soul is not lost.  Soul IS.


JMO.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 06:54:00 PM
If there is no one in charge, then our souls are lost. JMO
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 07:04:04 PM
@ Souza
It is OT the book of Isaiah chapter 14. Most people just quote 14:12 to 14:15

-----------------------------------

12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Satan wanted to be God. The Bible tells us in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 that Satan has become the "god of this world". And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.


15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Revelation that you quoted too, and second letter of St. Peter 2:4, and may be more.

Most people see nothing wrong in pride, but there is another point of view. Nothing happens without God's will or permission. If you do well, "Glory to God" if not "Glory to God" and see if you have not done something wrong.

Thank you for the Moonwalker cover. To me Michael Jackson is a human, not perfect as all other humans. But he had a good message. The second part of the biggest commandment, Mathew 22:35-40. This is something I respect.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 07:10:38 PM
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@ Souza
It is OT the book of Isaiah chapter 14. Most people just quote 14:12 to 14:15

-----------------------------------

12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Satan wanted to be God. The Bible tells us in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 that Satan has become the "god of this world". And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.


15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Revelation that you quoted too, and second letter of St. Peter 2:4, and may be more.

Most people see nothing wrong in pride, but there is another point of view. Nothing happens without God's will or permission. If you do well, "Glory to God" if not "Glory to God" and see if you have not done something wrong.

Thank you for the Moonwalker cover. To me Michael Jackson is a human, not perfect as all other humans. But he had a good message. The second part of the biggest commandment, Mathew 22:35-40. This is something I respect.

Yes, but what you say is that he wanted something that was not his (10th commandment). Does Michael want something that is not his?

And again, why a war in heaven, if it was just that? Lucifer gathered angels around him that worshipped him and rebelled against God because he didn't get what he wanted. I don't think that you can compare that to Michael pulling of the 'Greatest show on Earth'.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: hesouttamylife on November 27, 2011, 07:19:43 PM
This thread feels so right to me.  I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them.  Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable.  Michael the Archangel just fits.  From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift.  Nothing else explains it.  From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him.  The list goes on and on.  This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial.  None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson.   His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience.  Michael Jackson is a Godsend.  Of thay my belief has never faltered.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 07:29:18 PM
Every perfect gift is from above. How can one pull off the greatest show without God's help? He can not claim the whole credit for it. Yet, Michael has always been more humble than other artists. Just not sure if that is enough. Christian teaching imply humility. all apostles have been humble from what they have written. It may be my view that the greater the gift and achievements the more humility is required. Not sure how much is required to pull off "The greatest show on Earth". 

Here is a link to a book about humility and ascetics

http://www.amazon.com/John-Climacus-Classics-Western-Spirituality/dp/0809123304/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322443640&sr=1-1
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 07:30:56 PM
I have to mention that I lack humility and just got the impression that only real ascetics can can get a message from God. The ones that lived in deserts in ancient times.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 07:33:38 PM
On the other hand, 20 th and 21st centuries are different and it is not easy to apply ancient teachings to today's life.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 07:35:02 PM
I never claimed Michael doesn't get help from God, quite the contrary. I said Michael has a big role in the times to come, which means that I believe he DOES get help from God, but I also believe he knows that himself.

But you are actually saying that great and big things can never be done by man, because that would not be humble? I bet Michael thanked God for his given talents many times.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 07:42:24 PM
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I have to mention that I lack humility and just got the impression that only real ascetics can can get a message from God. The ones that lived in deserts in ancient times.


Hmmm, if that were true, it means that God would not be able to get messages out these days. That would be a little unconvenient and odd, don't you think? If we forget about the ancient times, and just look at ascetics living in the desert, then what would be the use of giving that person the message, knowing that it won't get further than that person? If he was able to get the message across in the nearby village, what do you think will happen? Probably nothing, because people would ridicule the "crazy hermit". These are different times. If God would want to get out His message out through a person, he better pick one that can handle a computer.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 27, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
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This thread feels so right to me.  I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them.  Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable.  Michael the Archangel just fits.  From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift.  Nothing else explains it.  From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him.  The list goes on and on.  This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial.  None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson.   His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience.  Michael Jackson is a Godsend.  Of thay my belief has never faltered.
Wow, I don't believe that Michael Jackson is THE heavenly archangel Michael.  You think Michael used to be Jesus?  You think that Michael Jackson is dead then?  I don't think the consensus here is 100% saying Michael Jackson is the archangel in heaven.  I for one believe with all my life that he is NOT.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 07:45:58 PM
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I never claimed Michael doesn't get help from God, quite the contrary. I said Michael has a big role in the times to come, which means that I believe he DOES get help from God, but I also believe he knows that himself.

But you are actually saying that great and big things can never be done by man, because that would not be humble? I bet Michael thanked God for his given talents many times.

Let's hope so.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 27, 2011, 07:48:49 PM
I don't call hermits "crazy". Their choice.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 27, 2011, 07:53:03 PM
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I don't call hermits "crazy". Their choice.

Me neither, but most people do. That's my point.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 27, 2011, 08:45:24 PM
I can't believe that I somehow missed this thread when you started it Souza! Silly me, anyway,I have just skimmed over the posts, but need to take some time to read it thoroughly, before I reply, but I Have my grandaughter here right now, so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I am glad that this thread exists, because I have so much to share and discuss with you all, until then...Blessings LOVE and LIGHT to all!!!

I LOVE my beautiful MJ Family!!
 bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 28, 2011, 04:38:17 AM
@Souza

From wiki: “Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one". It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or
Mashiach.”

You are right about the name “Christ” not being used in the Old Testament.
Christ or “Māšîaḥ” it is the name most commonly used when referring to the prophesies about the Prophet, the Ruler, the Lion, the Savior, the Lamb, the High Priest, the Prince of Peace to-come in the Old Testament: Isaiah 9:6, Genesis 3:14-15, Micah 5:1-2, Daniel 9:24-26, Isaiah 53:1-3, Psalm 110 etc (http://www.amazingchange.org/PropheciesConcerningJesus.htm; http://www.amazingchange.org/titles.htm)

My point is that He was already one with God before He came down to us and became Jesus, God in human form.

There is a clear distinction between the angels (the Hebrew and Greek words originally mean messenger) and God throughout the bible, Jesus could not have been both God and an angel. Either he was merely an angel or he was God himself.

I believe myself to be a “born again Christian” filled with the Holy Spirit (John 14: 26-27, Acts 2, John 16:13 (yes, speaking in tongues is a real thing)) so of course I believe in the trinity (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit)! They are all one, even though they are separate entities. Pretty mind blowing and hard to grasp but I don’t think that He would be worthy of being called God if we all could comprehend him, would he? ;)

My point is, throughout the whole bible we can read that there is a clear difference between the Godhead and the angels, God (that includes Jesus/Christ/Messiah) actually created the angels (Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 148:2,5; Colossians 1:16-17). Therefore God cannot be an angel.

I don’t understand how you can say that Hebrews supports Jesus being an angel when it clearly makes a distinction between the angels and God (the Son included).

Hebrews 1:1-14

God’s Final Word: His Son (translators note)

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

The Son Superior to Angels (translators note)

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;

today I have become your Father”[a]?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

Let all God’s angels worship him.”

In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy
.”

He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”?

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Do you view this passage of scripture as the archangel Michael being “promoted” to a higher place then the rest of the angels? But weren’t he (God) the same from the beginning? Haven’t the trinity always been intact? I think that it is a definition of God, He has always been.

I believe that this whole passage (probably written by the apostle Paul) was written to make a distinction between the angles and the Son (this I have learned through 3 years of theological studies and personal dedication to reading the scripture). And when talking about doctrines like this it is important to consider the Whole bible, not only certain passages. What is the substance when considering the bible as a whole? When doing this I think it is pretty clear that there is a clear distinction between the angles and God.

I know the Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus is God (which is essential for the whole sacrifice and salvation to all that believe in Him (Rom 10:9) -message). But you seem to believe that He is both God and arch angel Michael, that they are the same? This is new to me! ;)

Important note: I do believe that Jesus/Messiah/Christ is referred to as “the angel of the LORD” in some passages of the scripture. This is not Michael; rather it is one part of the trinity (the Son).  In these passages it is pretty clear that “the angel of the LORD” and God is one.

Bottom-line though; the important question is not if Jesus is/was the archangel Michael, the important part is if he is God and Savior of mankind? It is the most essential question (John 3:16, Romans 10:9).

I don’t know what you believe Souza, who Jesus is to you? To me he is my personal Savior and friend. He is my Lord, my God. I believe that he wants to guide everyone through his Holy Spirit (the helper) into the whole truth:

”But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.” - John 16:13

Keep reading the scriptures and I am sure you will find your answers. And don’t forget… Follow the Prince of Peace! - Isaiah 9:6.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 28, 2011, 04:44:57 AM
just want to say this is now my second favourite thread on the forum. i have been keeping up with it for a while now and though i dont have something to add at this stage - (definitely have an opinion and a belief, but not prepared to put it out there just yet until i am more certain abt how mj fits into it) nevertheless, just wanted to say that i am well impressed with the bible knowledge and understanding that several members have made comment on in this thread. as someone who respects the bible and studies it fluently, i find it quite respectable and encouraging to see others also looking into the scriptures and aiming to understand and apply them. and really that is they key... not just understanding. applying them in life.

if only every human looked to the bible for guidance and applied it, the world would be a perfect place...
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 28, 2011, 04:46:16 AM
@jono

I have to go, but I will ask this for now: where does it say Michael the Archangel was created? Angels yes, but the archangel? And why do you assume that the archangel is an angel too? Is the leader of a group of children also a kid?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 28, 2011, 06:40:22 AM
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@jono

I have to go, but I will ask this for now: where does it say Michael the Archangel was created? Angels yes, but the archangel? And why do you assume that the archangel is an angel too? Is the leader of a group of children also a kid?

To answerer your question: No, but they are all Human ;)

Just like the archangels are angles.

Arch, is a rank.

"archo"̄ or "ar'-kho" (from Greek): A primary verb; to be first (in political rank or power): - reign (rule) over.

Does a human with a high rank make him super-human or god? Of course not...

In fact, the word "archangel" is only used two times in the bible and that is in the context of command and authority (Jude 1:9 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Jude 1:9 is an interesting passage as it is pretty clear that the archangel Michael does not have the same authority as the Lord:

“But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

And when reading 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Jude 1:9 I think that it becomes pretty clear that an archangel is not the same as the Lord and Jesus Christ. They seem to be more of a servant with a high rank. Just like an army here on earth has many different ranks, I believe that the army of God (his angels) does have different ranks, archangel being the highest.

This is my thinking and how I interpret this, not saying I am right and everyone else is wrong.

 bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 28, 2011, 07:03:41 AM
there are a few things that i'd like to comment on in this thread in future, but just want to post this one quickly. agree that archangel is a rank. but believe only one angel (jesus pre birth and post death) had this rank and title. (EDIT)

God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) this term means “chief angel.” Michael is called 'the' archangel. that suggests that there is only one such angel. the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. JC is linked with the office of archangel. relating to JC, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states “the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. this scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

in my opinion AND as per bible research - this archangel is not michael jackson. to anyone who believes that he is, then please understand that i make this comment with all due resepect for your belief and politely disagree.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: grossomodo on November 28, 2011, 04:11:56 PM
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if only every human looked to the bible for guidance and applied it, the world would be a perfect place...

AMEN to that!
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 28, 2011, 04:30:17 PM
@jono

I think there is way more evidence in the Bible of Jesus being THE archangel Michael, PLUS being part of the Godhead (which means Jesus doesn't have to be a literal angel, but the leader thereof). How else would you interpret the scriptures I posted? And I think Australian MJ BeLIEver had a pretty strong one as well.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 28, 2011, 04:33:17 PM
Anyway religious is bullshit. Asked the Egyptians, amen to that. Oh wait was "Amen" an Egyptain god as well?!?!?!!!! Ooopps



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e1CWBKRWIg0[/youtube]
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: hesouttamylife on November 28, 2011, 04:44:35 PM
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This thread feels so right to me.  I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them.  Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable.  Michael the Archangel just fits.  From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift.  Nothing else explains it.  From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him.  The list goes on and on.  This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial.  None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson.   His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience.  Michael Jackson is a Godsend.  Of thay my belief has never faltered.
Wow, I don't believe that Michael Jackson is THE heavenly archangel Michael.  You think Michael used to be Jesus?  You think that Michael Jackson is dead then?  I don't think the consensus here is 100% saying Michael Jackson is the archangel in heaven.  I for one believe with all my life that he is NOT.

Not “the Archangel” of biblical times, but the Archangel for our times.  And hell no, I do not think he is or ever was Jesus.  If that was implied, please pardon me.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 28, 2011, 05:14:59 PM
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This thread feels so right to me.  I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them.  Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable.  Michael the Archangel just fits.  From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift.  Nothing else explains it.  From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him.  The list goes on and on.  This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial.  None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson.   His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience.  Michael Jackson is a Godsend.  Of thay my belief has never faltered.
Wow, I don't believe that Michael Jackson is THE heavenly archangel Michael.  You think Michael used to be Jesus?  You think that Michael Jackson is dead then?  I don't think the consensus here is 100% saying Michael Jackson is the archangel in heaven.  I for one believe with all my life that he is NOT.

Not “the Archangel” of biblical times, but the Archangel for our times.  And hell no, I do not think he is or ever was Jesus.  If that was implied, please pardon me.

i dont mean to appear argumentative, however i am confused by your post. if the bible indicates that the archangel is jesus and that there is only one archangel, how can mj also be an archangel. there is scriptual reasoning (see my post above) to indicate that the title of the archangel only belongs to one individual that being JC. again, the term "THE archangel" indicates that its a title given only to ONE individual.

naturally i dont expect you to find me a scripture that says "MJ is also an archangel" however, i politely ask, are you able to make reference to a scripture that indicates that a) there will be or is a second archangel and / or b) that there will be an archangel of our day.

if not (this is to to any who believe MJ is present day archangel) what are these statements / beliefs based on? (scriptually)

MJ is a leader in change, humanitarianism, praising and singing about and to god, etc - no doubt abt that. but to call him the modern day archangel, (which is fine if you believe that) to make that statement legitimate, there MUST be bible evidence that there is or will be such an individual. otherwise anyone can make up anything abt what is going to happen and who is who and call it a belief - if it doesnt need to be substantiated by scripture.

EDIT: so my Q is, "what is this belief based on?" is it based on all the marvellous work that MJ has done, his charisma, his spirit, his love for god, his following, etc (which to be fair, is remarkably amazing no other modern day icon can compete!) or is it based on solid scriptual evidence?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 28, 2011, 05:36:18 PM
@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.

within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.

and please educate yourself before calling it BS
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 28, 2011, 05:45:28 PM
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@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.

within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.

and please educate yourself before calling it BS

I think you need to educate yourself, peace
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 28, 2011, 05:52:25 PM
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@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.

within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.

and please educate yourself before calling it BS

I think you need to educate yourself, you guys call him Michael Jesus, and archangel. What the hell? Michael is Michael, he's not god, he's not jesus. some of you fans get on my nerve with your gullible nonsense.  any pastor would laugh at you if you said mj is god, lmao 
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 28, 2011, 05:54:36 PM
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@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.

within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.

and please educate yourself before calling it BS

I think you need to educate yourself, you guys call him Michael Jesus, and archangel. What the hell? Michael is Michael, he's not god, he's not jesus. some of you fans get on my nerve with your gullible nonsense.  any pastor would laugh at you if you said mj is god, lmao. Anyways i really dont care because religious is a myth, and its based on fear, guilt and shame.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 28, 2011, 05:54:57 PM
edit
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Starchild on November 28, 2011, 06:34:35 PM
@iamamjbeliever, In all due respect, I agree with Australian MJ BeLIEver regarding your "manner" of speaking:
 respect/

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@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.

within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.

and please educate yourself before calling it BS

However, I do like the informative video that you posted regarding the Ancient Egyptians and the history of Christianity and the Christ story:

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e1CWBKRWIg0[/youtube]

Thanks for posting this video.  And just FYI for anyone interested, MJonmind posted similar information and videos on this subject that go even more in depth within the New Jesus thread (that I commented on as well):  http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=18805.msg364186#msg364186 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=18805.msg364186#msg364186)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 28, 2011, 06:52:32 PM
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@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.

within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.

and please educate yourself before calling it BS

I think you need to educate yourself, you guys call him Michael Jesus, and archangel. What the hell? Michael is Michael, he's not god, he's not jesus. some of you fans get on my nerve with your gullible nonsense.  any pastor would laugh at you if you said mj is god, lmao. Anyways i really dont care because religious is a myth, and its based on fear, guilt and shame.



@iamamjbeliever - i dont think that you have read this thread properly before you made comment. I FOR ONE MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT BELIEVE that mj is archangel and never will be. i also do not believe he is JC, ever was or ever will be. so please familiarise yourself with what i said and stated that i believe before you judge me not only ignorantly but incorrectly. i look forward to your apology as you are wrong that i believe mj is archangel / jesus. i am not being smart. just saying you are mistaken, i do not believe or say what you claimed that i did.

regarding educating myself. i have been educating myself in scripture / religion for 25 years and will continue to do so. regarding a pastor, i care not for their opinion. i verify things by studying the scriptures not by what a man tells me. (much like MJDH - look at evidence not what forum members tell me)

about your statement that religion is based on lies / shame / guilt. i agree with you to an extent. yes, MANY religions are based or infested with this 'ethos' however the 'bible' is not religion. the bible is holy scripture inspired by god. not corrupt. religion made by man is what could be called corrupt and many religions have been known to be entrenched with lies, guilt and shame throughout history, yes you are correct.

your term of "religion is a myth" doesnt make sense to me. (with no disprespect, unsure if i am not undertanding you as i am not sure english is your first language and that your sentance is written the way you intend to project your point) but religion is not a myth as most of the world subscribes to a religion of some sort. religion is very much real and the reason for much conflict across the world. i think what you mean (please correct me if i am wrong) that certain "beliefs" are a myth or untrue. no doubt that there are things that some religious people may believe in or practice that are untrue, unfounded and are either church doctrine, teachings passed down thru culture / church / religion opposed to being from the bible.

regarding the bible and god the creator, that is what i follow. him and his Word - not what you describe as mythical religion & beliefs.

again just to clarify, this post to you is sent with respect for your beliefs / point of view. my point to you was just to mention you do need to be careful when sharing your opinion and describing religion as BS - as there are people in this thread quite passionate about their belief and religion.

there are people here that i most certainly disagree with. i dont agree with catholisism, i dont agree with islam, i dont agree with hinduism, much like i dont agree that mj is the archangel or mordern day jesus. however out of respect for fellow members would never call their beliefs BS but instead will engage in appropriate, respectful debate / conversation.

that was my point.

peace to you and well wishes.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 28, 2011, 06:59:26 PM
In that Egyptian video, at 1:34 there is an icon that is supposed to be Mary and Emmanuil from 4 b.c. The top right corner of this icon says Jesus Christ in Greek. It can not be from 4 bc. Amen means "so be it" or "to be God's will" and the ancient Egyption deity is Amon Ra, not Amen. Who knows what else is incorrect in that video. Egyptian civilization is the only one that has always been on decline, no record on development from cave age, very strange.  May be they borrowed stuff from civilizations before them.  And the Exodus from the bible says a lot too.

Western world knows little about some resurrection details and probably there is a reason for it. Roman catholic popes deny some events related to it, yet every year they go there. Don't know how to embed videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=7qPZW8pkBEs
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on November 28, 2011, 08:52:52 PM
I don't belong to one particular religion either but I believe in a higher power or creator, and in angels and in Jesus.  I go to different churches.  We can learn a lot from the Bible even if you need help interpreting it.   None of us really know the truth about everything.    We are only humans who can't possibly know the truth about everything.    I have watched several videos about the Egyptians.  There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting.    On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!!  They had very advanced technology.  They must have had advanced technologies and knowledge in order to build and do the amazing pyramids, sphinx and everything else.  The pyramids are way more complicated than you think. I can't tell it all here.  Research and watch.  It's amazing. 

It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians.  Maybe there is a reason for that.  Maybe it is not all a myth.  Maybe some of it is.  We don't know.  They  Maybe some of history repeats itself ?  They used a lot of science, and sacred geometry that we still don't understand or want to accept today.  The ancient civilizations used this.    Information was hidden from us.  The vatican go there every year.  Do they have information that they are keeping for themselves ?  Secret information.  The secret societies know and have information they are keeping from us.  Religions and governments manipulate laws and information in order to manipulate and control the people.  Do you know why there is a King James version of the Bible ?   That version was manipulated by King James when he was ruling.

Anyway, it seems that there is spiritual side to this.  It seems that Michael has been on a mission for a very long time, maybe his whole life.  If you look back there are so many clues including art,poems,speeches, clothing, jewelry,music,lyrics.  They are all connected.  It seems like an extremely huge, important message.  This death hoax is a huge,difficult task.  Also, it makes you wonder when family members say things like archangel and things like he is such an angel.  They are not people who are just playing around.  This is extremely well planned and it took years !!!!!
I am thinking he is some sort of prophet or angel and I have been reading and thinking about this all year.  I didn't just come up with it.  After reading, you see that there is a lot that we don't know a lot about.  Information is censored and hidden from us.  The internet is spreading more information.   

I am thinking and hoping that Michael is an angel but even if he's not he's still an super talented genius with a heart of gold. 

Love

 
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Starchild on November 28, 2011, 11:27:51 PM
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I have watched several videos about the Egyptians.  There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting.    On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!!  [. . .]  It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians.  Maybe there is a reason for that.  Maybe it is not all a myth.  Maybe some of it is.  We don't know.  They  Maybe some of history repeats itself ?   

Hi, Dontwalkaway.  Agree with the portion of your post quoted above.  The information about the Egyptians is interesting if nothing else.  The following is the first of the three videos posted by MJonmind (as mentioned in my earlier post).  The most pertinent portion begins at 03:15; discussion includes Horus (3000 BC), Attis (1200 BC), Krishna (900 BC), Dionysus (500 BC), Mithra (1200 BC), and finally, the biblical Jesus.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb9r1yrEs6o&feature=related[/youtube]

I am interested in knowing what others think of this as well.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 29, 2011, 04:19:36 AM
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I have watched several videos about the Egyptians.  There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting.    On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!!  [. . .]  It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians.  Maybe there is a reason for that.  Maybe it is not all a myth.  Maybe some of it is.  We don't know.  They  Maybe some of history repeats itself ?   

Hi, Dontwalkaway.  Agree with the portion of your post quoted above.  The information about the Egyptians is interesting if nothing else.  The following is the first of the three videos posted by MJonmind (as mentioned in my earlier post).  The most pertinent portion begins at 03:15; discussion includes Horus (3000 BC), Attis (1200 BC), Krishna (900 BC), Dionysus (500 BC), Mithra (1200 BC), and finally, the biblical Jesus.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb9r1yrEs6o&feature=related[/youtube]

I am interested in knowing what others think of this as well.

That part of Zeitgeist can be thrown right into the trashbin:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFI6m6Icav4[/youtube]

It's based on nothing.

There is one person in this thread that really needs to learn what respect is, or else he/she can find another hoax forum.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Starchild on November 29, 2011, 06:31:50 AM
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I have watched several videos about the Egyptians.  There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting.    On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!!  [. . .]  It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians.  Maybe there is a reason for that.  Maybe it is not all a myth.  Maybe some of it is.  We don't know.  They  Maybe some of history repeats itself ?   

Hi, Dontwalkaway.  Agree with the portion of your post quoted above.  The information about the Egyptians is interesting if nothing else.  The following is the first of the three videos posted by MJonmind (as mentioned in my earlier post).  The most pertinent portion begins at 03:15; discussion includes Horus (3000 BC), Attis (1200 BC), Krishna (900 BC), Dionysus (500 BC), Mithra (1200 BC), and finally, the biblical Jesus.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb9r1yrEs6o&feature=related[/youtube]

I am interested in knowing what others think of this as well.

That part of Zeitgeist can be thrown right into the trashbin:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFI6m6Icav4[/youtube]

It's based on nothing.

There is one person in this thread that really needs to learn what respect is, or else he/she can find another hoax forum.

Hi, Souza.  Thanks for posting the Zeitgeist video.  I watched the first few minutes of it and will definitely watch the rest of it when I have time, just as I watched the Greatest Story Ever Told videos.

(Just FYI, regarding my personal beliefs, I am one who enjoys [perhaps too much] :lol:  learning about and discussing the tenets of the various world religions in a comparative sense; however, I am not a practitioner of any of them.  I do believe in God, though.  Grew up Baptist, in fact; as a kid, I went to parochial school, always had my head stuck in a Bible, and at one time was even on my way to divinity school!  In general, I believe that all paths lead to God according to our respective spiritual needs at any given point [albeit usually as a result of culture and upbringing], be the path Christianity and the Bible, Islam and the Quran, Hinduism and the Bhagavad Gita, or what have you.)

Regarding "sacred texts" like the Bible, one interesting thing of note, IMO anyway (and this is not meant to offend; rather, perhaps it will bring up yet another interesting conversation), is that oftentimes in lay discussions like ours, the texts are spoken of as being predominately factual and historical and, in turn, used to confirm history/truth as opposed to history (e.g., archeology, linguistics, astronomy, literature, and so on) being used to confirm the historicity of the text(s).  What do you think?



(Have to go to work now but will check back later.)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 29, 2011, 06:51:06 AM
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@jono

I think there is way more evidence in the Bible of Jesus being THE archangel Michael, PLUS being part of the Godhead (which means Jesus doesn't have to be a literal angel, but the leader thereof). How else would you interpret the scriptures I posted? And I think Australian MJ BeLIEver had a pretty strong one as well.

So you do believe that Jesus is both God and refereed to as the archangel Michael in some scriptures?
That it is just another name to add to a long list of title of Jesus? You don't believe he is literally an angel?

Because my point is that God and angles are not the same thing, that the bible makes pretty clear..

I am sorry, could you post the scriptures you are referring to one more time and I'll have another look? Couldn't find them in the thread  /overreacting/

This is an interesting subject to me as I have studied theology.. Also, I like to "dig in", it's kind of a challenge  :D

 bearhug

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 29, 2011, 09:10:00 AM
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So you do believe that Jesus is both God and refereed to as the archangel Michael in some scriptures?
That it is just another name to add to a long list of title of Jesus? You don't believe he is literally an angel?


agree with you here %100 EDIT: not the part abt jesus being god though ;)

jesus not an angel. this is one of his names, Jesus, The Christ, Michael, Prince of Peace, The Word, The Son, The King of Kings the Lord of Lords and so on and so on... not only is Michael a name for Jesus, but a role. when Jesus is refered to as Michael the archangel, he is waging war. Michael is not mentioned often in the bible. when he is referred to, he is in action. in the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons

at times, individuals are known by more than one name. for example, Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. Paul as Saul, etc (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2)
Quote
Because my point is that God and angles are not the same thing, that the bible makes pretty clear..

bible also makes pretty clear that jesus is seperate from god and is gods son a different and subordinate entity to GOD - GODS humble servent and not GOD.

- this is my son, the beloved, who i have approved....
- the father is greater than i...
- what I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me...
- As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father...
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 29, 2011, 09:44:35 AM
@Aussie...but since Jesus is Michael and Michael is the archangel, isn't he an angel?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 29, 2011, 10:17:48 AM
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@Aussie...but since Jesus is Michael and Michael is the archangel, isn't he an angel?

Leader of the angel does not automatically have to mean angel.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 29, 2011, 04:13:23 PM
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bible also makes pretty clear that jesus is seperate from god and is gods son a different and subordinate entity to GOD - GODS humble servent and not GOD.

- this is my son, the beloved, who i have approved....
- the father is greater than i...
- what I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me...
- As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father...

Agree to disagree ;) quite the contrary actually!

Jesus as God -bible verses:

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He (this is a direct reference to Exodus 3:14), you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM (again, a direct reference to Exodus 3:14),.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM (again, a direct reference to Exodus 3:14) the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 20:28 - Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.

Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


"Christ is the Lord" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ-8jYpa1-o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ-8jYpa1-o)

It is essential to the whole salvation message that Jesus was both 100% human and 100% God.
God was the only one who could take all mankind's sin away; this has to do with the original sin.
But yes, Jesus is the Son, and not the Father (separate entities in the trinity) but still they are one.

Jesus had to be 100% pure, the perfect sacrifice. That is why he had to be God; it is why a virgin gave birth to Jesus. That way the curse of the original sin was broken.

It was also essential for Jesus to be 100% human as it was the first human (Adam) who brought sin into mankind in the first place (Genesis 3). Jesus, who is also referred to as the second Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45-47) came to set things right again (what Adam and Eve "screwed up", so to speak (1 Corinthians 15:22)).

God is 100% pure, he is Holy. That is why we could not have a relationship with Him before Jesus’ sacrifice. God cannot have a relationship with someone who is not 100% pure, that is why he came down (Emanuel, God with us - Matthew 1:23) and sacrificed his only son (who is one with God) and took ALL sin away. If we believe in Jesus as our God and Savior (Rom 10:9) and receive this amazing gift of LOVE, we can have fellowship with God once again (just like in Eden) and God does not see sin in us anymore because we are IN Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 3:28, Romans 6:11, Romans 8:1, Romans 12:5, 2 Corinthians 5:19 etc, etc…).
 
Salvation came to all mankind through faith in Jesus, and faith alone, not deeds. I just have to add party/ here!

However… I do feel sorry for everyone who does not want to receive this gift of LOVE or those who does not understand it (John 3:27).

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
 
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 29, 2011, 07:49:15 PM
@ johno. yes humbly completely agree to disagree. with all respect the scriptues quoted do not convince me god and jesus are one.

jesus is gods most precious son—and for good reason. He is called “the firstborn of all creation,” for he was God’s first creation. (Colossians 1:15) there is something else that makes this son special. he is the “only-begotten son.” (John 3:16) meaning that Jesus is the only one directly created by god. jesus is also the only one whom god used when He created all other things. (Colossians 1:16) then, too, Jesus is called “the word.” (John 1:14) this tells us that he spoke for God, no doubt delivering messages and instructions to the father’s other sons, both spirit and human.
 
some believe the son is equal to god. that isnt what the bible teaches. as per above, the son was created. obviously, then, he had a beginning, where god has no beginning or end. very hard for mortal humans to grasp the concept, i know. see psalm 90:2. the only-begotten son never even considered trying to be equal to his father. bible clearly shows that the father is greater than the Son. (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 11:3) God / yaweh / jah alone is “God Almighty.” (Genesis 17:1) therefore, he has no equal and is also not jesus.

also John 17.4,5 indicates that jesus has a special relationship with god. "i have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. So now you, father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

EDIT:  regarding your comment on a perfect sacrifice. jesus not god was this perfect sacrifice and he was suitable to be the 'last adam' as he was the image of god. god / yaweh / jah and his firstborn Son enjoyed close association for billions of years—long before the heavens and the earth were created. (John 3:35; 14:31) this son was just like his father. that is why the bible refers to the son as “the image of the invisible God.” (Colossians 1:15) like a human son may closely resemble his father in various ways, this heavenly son reflected his father’s qualities and personality.
 
god's only-begotten son willingly left heaven and came down to earth to live as a human. god performed a miracle. he transferred the life of his firstborn son from heaven to the womb of mary. no human father was involved. mary thus gave birth to a perfect son and named him Jesus.—Luke 1:30-35.

but it looks like you have your scriptures and i have mine, so again, agree to respectfully disagree. i am just happy that so many of us here are bible minded. i guess that is the silver lining. it is wonderful to see that there are still spiritually minded individuals in the world amongst such wickedness. i am sure that god sees that and understands that as imperfect humans we are prone to misinterpret or not fully understand the holy word.

peace and love to you all.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 29, 2011, 09:36:19 PM
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@Aussie...but since Jesus is Michael and Michael is the archangel, isn't he an angel?

Leader of the angel does not automatically have to mean angel.

But aren't the angels called God's sons and since Jesus is God's son, he is an angel?...if he isn't an angel, then what is he?
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 29, 2011, 10:08:52 PM
Just a little comment on those videos about "the greatest story ..." . Dionysus was not an ancient Greek version of Jesus. He is more like god of wine, spirits, and wild parties to a point which in now days is called alcoholism. Not sure how much of the rest in that video is true. Not going to dig about other ancient gods.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on November 29, 2011, 10:14:23 PM
That video I didn't know how to embed the other day.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=7qPZW8pkBEs[/youtube]


From what I understand the fire lits by itself, after the patriarch of Jerusalem says some prayers. It doesn't lit when a pope says those prayers, so the western world didn't know this until youtube become a big deal. It is a resurrection proof, because it happens on Easter.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on November 29, 2011, 11:02:24 PM
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bible also makes pretty clear that jesus is seperate from god and is gods son a different and subordinate entity to GOD - GODS humble servent and not GOD.

- this is my son, the beloved, who i have approved....
- the father is greater than i...
- what I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me...
- As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father...

Agree to disagree ;) quite the contrary actually!

Jesus as God -bible verses:

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He (this is a direct reference to Exodus 3:14), you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM (again, a direct reference to Exodus 3:14),.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM (again, a direct reference to Exodus 3:14) the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 20:28 - Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.

Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


"Christ is the Lord" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ-8jYpa1-o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ-8jYpa1-o)

It is essential to the whole salvation message that Jesus was both 100% human and 100% God.
God was the only one who could take all mankind's sin away; this has to do with the original sin.
But yes, Jesus is the Son, and not the Father (separate entities in the trinity) but still they are one.

Jesus had to be 100% pure, the perfect sacrifice. That is why he had to be God; it is why a virgin gave birth to Jesus. That way the curse of the original sin was broken.

It was also essential for Jesus to be 100% human as it was the first human (Adam) who brought sin into mankind in the first place (Genesis 3). Jesus, who is also referred to as the second Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45-47) came to set things right again (what Adam and Eve "screwed up", so to speak (1 Corinthians 15:22)).

God is 100% pure, he is Holy. That is why we could not have a relationship with Him before Jesus’ sacrifice. God cannot have a relationship with someone who is not 100% pure, that is why he came down (Emanuel, God with us - Matthew 1:23) and sacrificed his only son (who is one with God) and took ALL sin away. If we believe in Jesus as our God and Savior (Rom 10:9) and receive this amazing gift of LOVE, we can have fellowship with God once again (just like in Eden) and God does not see sin in us anymore because we are IN Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 3:28, Romans 6:11, Romans 8:1, Romans 12:5, 2 Corinthians 5:19 etc, etc…).
 
Salvation came to all mankind through faith in Jesus, and faith alone, not deeds. I just have to add party/ here!

However… I do feel sorry for everyone who does not want to receive this gift of LOVE or those who does not understand it (John 3:27).

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
 

Great post!  I agree!  Jesus is the only man to have been 200%: 100% man and 100% God, thus Son of Man and Son of God titles He has/had.  That and the Godhead exists as a Trinity: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, all God but three separate individuals part of the Godhead. 

http://www.biblehelp.org/reference_1.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 30, 2011, 04:01:46 AM
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@ johno. yes humbly completely agree to disagree. with all respect the scriptues quoted do not convince me god and jesus are one.

It is okay to not agree all the time! beerchug But I don't think it can be any clearer actually:

Jesus himself said that - My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him …
- John 10:29-31

Why did they want to stone him? Because:

“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” - John 10:33
 
You have to either ignore or rewrite a whole lot of scriptures (please refer to my last post) to ignore the obvious.
I know that the Jehovah’s are using an slightly different, edited version (The New World Translation) of the bible that differs from the traditional/original translations.
Again, this is why <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics">Hermeneutics</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis">Exegesis</a> is so important… Please note that TS have mostly refereed to either NIV or the King James version, I prefer TNIV (updated version of NIV) as it is the most hermeneutically and exegetically correct version.

I have to ask you. Are you a Jehovah’s?

I think that you are confusing the separate entities (the trinity) and the wholeness of God....
If Jesus was not God, then he is not part of the trinity either, thus there is NO salvation through faith alone, no precious gift and God did NOT sacrifice himself for us.

And this is how to apply the proper Hermeneutics and Exegesis:

The Deity of Christ - http://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity (http://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity)

A.   Jesus is God in flesh (John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14). See also John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8

i.   1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

a.   The above verse needs to be cross referenced with John 1:1,14 (also written by John) where he states that the Word was God and the Word became flesh.

b.   1 John 4:2-3 is saying that if you deny that Jesus is God in flesh then you are of the spirit of Antichrist.

ii.   John 8:24, "I said, therefore, to you, that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins."

iii.   Jesus said that if you do not believe "that I am" you will die in your sins. In Greek I am is 'ego eimi,' which means ‘I am.' These are the same words used in John 8:58, where Jesus says "...before Abraham was, I am." He was claiming the divine title by quoting Exodus 3:14.

a.   The Greek Septuagint is the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Greek, done by Jews around 250 B.C. They translated Exodus 3:14 as 'ego eimi' "I AM".)

B.   Jesus is the proper object of faith

i.   It is not simply enough to have faith. Faith is only as valid as the person in whom you put it. You must put your faith in the proper person. Cults have false objects of faith (false gods); therefore, their faith is useless -- no matter how sincere they are.

ii.   If you put your faith in a guru, a philosopher, or a past teacher (and not Jesus) to save you from your sins on Judgment Day, then you will be in a lot of trouble, no matter how sincere or strong your faith is. You might have great faith, but so what? Faith in something false has the same effect as no faith at all.

C.   The Doctrine of the deity of Christ includes:

i.   The Trinity - There is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all coeternal and of the same nature.

ii.   Monotheism - There is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8 ). Mormons believe that many gods exist, though they serve and worship only one. Therefore, they are polytheists which excludes them from the camp of Christianity.

D.   The Hypostatic Union - That Jesus is both God and man.

i.   The sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ - The sacrifice of Christ is completely sufficient to pay for the sins of the world and it is only through Jesus' sacrifice that anyone can be saved.

ii.   As God - Only a perfect sacrifice to God is able to cleanse us from our sins. This is why Jesus, who is God in flesh, died for us.

a.   He had to die for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). Only God could do that.

iii.   As man - Jesus must be man to be able to be a sacrifice for man.

a.   As a man He can be the mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5).

E.   This means that the Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, Islam, etc., are outside of Christianity.


I totally respect your views and interpretation, just showing what I have learned through my years of theological studies, thus why I do not agree.
With LOVE
. bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: YouRnotAlone7 on November 30, 2011, 04:28:40 AM
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jesus is gods most precious son—and for good reason. He is called “the firstborn of all creation,” for he was God’s first creation. (Colossians 1:15) there is something else that makes this son special. he is the “only-begotten son.” (John 3:16) meaning that Jesus is the only one directly created by god. jesus is also the only one whom god used when He created all other things. (Colossians 1:16) then, too, Jesus is called “the word.” (John 1:14) this tells us that he spoke for God, no doubt delivering messages and instructions to the father’s other sons, both spirit and human.
 
some believe the son is equal to god. that isnt what the bible teaches. as per above, the son was created. obviously, then, he had a beginning, where god has no beginning or end. very hard for mortal humans to grasp the concept, i know. see psalm 90:2. the only-begotten son never even considered trying to be equal to his father. bible clearly shows that the father is greater than the Son. (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 11:3) God / yaweh / jah alone is “God Almighty.” (Genesis 17:1) therefore, he has no equal and is also not jesus.

also John 17.4,5 indicates that jesus has a special relationship with god. "i have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. So now you, father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.


 



Very well said!  Thank you!
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 30, 2011, 04:57:19 AM
@ johno. thank you for taking the time to site these scriptures for me. i do not believe and will never believe in the trinity. i respect you have studied theology. i too have studied for many many years, multiple religions and will continue in my studies.

yes, we dont all have to agree all the time. you say it couldnt be clearer. i guess, that is your opinion from looking at the scriptures through the perspective of the trinity. for me the father and son being seperate, and looking at the scriptures from this perspective, personally the scriptures couldnt be any clearer.

although we will ultimately and forever disagree, i have enjoyed this discussion with you

love and peace.


edit: JWs are most certaily not outside of christianity. i can say this as i am a JW. though we believe the father and son are seperate, we endeavour to emulate christ and put on the christlike personality daily. i can assure you we love jesus and though sinners (as we all are) aim to please god by being as christlike as possible. we respect the ransom and understand that the only way to have a relationship with god is thru jesus. also aknowlege that salvation is only possible by accepting christ. not being a smarty pants here, just clearing up any misconception that we are not christian. this clarification for me personally is very important. there are many readers of this thread and i would hate for any of them to think that JWs are not christian based on what has been read here.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 30, 2011, 05:52:29 AM
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@ johno. thank you for taking the time to site these scriptures for me. i do not believe and will never believe in the trinity. i respect you have studied theology. i too have studied for many many years, multiple religions and will continue in my studies.

yes, we dont all have to agree all the time. you say it couldnt be clearer. i guess, that is your opinion from looking at the scriptures through the perspective of the trinity. for me the father and son being seperate, and looking at the scriptures from this perspective, personally the scriptures couldnt be any clearer.

although we will ultimately and forever disagree, i have enjoyed this discussion with you

love and peace.


edit: JWs are most certaily not outside of christianity. i can say this as i am a JW. though we believe the father and son are seperate, we endeavour to emulate christ and put on the christlike personality daily. i can assure you we love jesus and though sinners (as we all are) aim to please god by being as christlike as possible. we respect the ransom and understand that the only way to have a relationship with god is thru jesus. also aknowlege that salvation is only possible by accepting christ. not being a smarty pants here, just clearing up any misconception that we are not christian. this clarification for me personally is very important. there are many readers of this thread and i would hate for any of them to think that JWs are not christian based on what has been read here.


Yes, I believe this discussion could go on and on and on... ;)

I have stated my opinion and explained it pretty clearly so there is no need for any further discussion  I guess...
We will never agree, only agree to disagree.

bearhug

Questions:

As a JWs, what is your view when it come to "the watchtower"?
What is your view when it comes to the Holy Spirit? As I understand it you do not believe in spiritual baptism?

And what is the JWs view when it comes to someone like me?
I believe myself to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, also I am baptized in the Holy Spirit, I speak in tongues etc.

In the views of the JWs, what does this make me in an eternal perspective, so to speak?..

With LOVE
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 30, 2011, 06:01:15 AM
@johno - i cant answer these questions today due to time constraints. but will endeavour to answer your questions.

i will do this via PM, as you are asking specific questions about JWs and while i am happy to answer, i want to ensure that no one feels that a) i am being to preachy about JW beliefs (as up until this point it has been a discussion abt bible) or b) that i am using this thread as a soapbox to broadcast JW beliefs.

i am happy to answer your questions and when i have more time will send you a PM.


although we see things differently, i really do respect the adult manner in which we have been able to converse about the scriptures
 
bearhug bearhug bearhug

therefore hugs back to you my friend.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 30, 2011, 06:18:32 AM
I have to say I love this thread and all of everyone's inputs, it's nice to learn about peoples different perspectives and beliefs.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 30, 2011, 06:21:27 AM
@ illusion. yeah it is great. i have enjoyed it too.

this thread is a great display of respect amongst MJ believers. we are to be applauded and deserve a pat on the back. for a discussion about religion it has been for the most part very civil

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on November 30, 2011, 06:47:10 AM
@ Australian MJ BeLIEver - Of course! I think that it is important to stand up for what we believe and also to support it (with whether arguments we have).
But always with respect and LOVE for one another!

bearhug

I think that when it is not coming from a place of love any longer, then it is time to stop...
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 30, 2011, 07:27:39 AM
I am not part of any religion, nor have I ever studied the various religions. All I have done the last couple of months is look at what the Bible says. And to me the Bible clearly says:

-Jesus was known as THE archangel (Michael) before taking on a human form and Jesus is God (part of the Godhead Father/Son/Spirit)

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20454.msg374991#msg374991
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20454.msg375066#msg375066
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20454.msg375262#msg375262


-The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 different existences with different thoughts, actions and decisions and Jesus is an angel of God:

The Bible clearly states that the Son is also God. The most simple explanation I can think of is that because my parents are white, I am white. My friend is black, because her parents are black. The Son is God, because his Father is God. No one else is, because he is the only begotten Son of God. He inherited his divinity from his Father. "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." (John 8:19) "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) So Jesus clearly states that he is equal to his Father, that he is God. He would not say that if it weren't true, otherwise he would be a sinner (1st and 2nd commandment) and we all know that he was without sin until he took unto him the sins of mankind.

On the other hand, Jesus could not answer everything: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36) That clearly indicates that they have seperate thoughts and seperate forms. So are they one as in one entity/person? No, that is clearly not what the Bible says. What the Bible says is that they are one as in united, they 'agree in one'.

Jesus is referred to as angel in the Bible, and the Bible tells us that he is archangel Michael. Does that mean Jesus is an angel too? Sure, why not? An angel is "A typically benevolent celestial being that acts as an intermediary between heaven and earth" or a representation of God, The Father. His created angels represent the Father on earth and deliver His messages, Jesus also has been a representation of His Father on earth, a mediator between us and the Father. But he also is the ARCH angel, thus leader. Not because he had better grades or kissed God's butt, but because he is His Son. So I see really no problem in Jesus being called an Angel.


-The Son was not created, but begotten.

Colossians 1:15 Might translate "the firstborn of all creation", but that does not mean that that is what the original scripture said or meant. If you look at the Greek text: http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/passage.aspx?q=Colossians+1%3A15&t=kjv you can see that there is no word in there for 'of'. This means that the original scripture could have easily meant "The firstborn before all creation." This is how the Dutch modern translation has translated it and I think it is closer to the truth, since the Bible already has told us that the Son was begotten, thus not created.


I am not saying I am interpretating everything right, but I do think that there is not one religion on earth that has interpretated the Bible completely right. Instead of going by what the religions tell us, we should study the scriptures themselves. "The majority is usually wrong", to quote my Bible teacher. And the Bible does say that the whole world is deceived: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Revelation 12:9)


Many Christians celebrate Christmas at 12/25. Scripture tells us Jesus was born somewhere between spring and autumn, because "shepherds were abiding in the field". They usually don't do that in winter. Many Christians observe Sunday as God's Holy day, the Sabbath, it is not. Saturday is Sabbath, and that is clear in the scriptures as well, since we know Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and the wanted to take the bodies (His and that of the two criminals next to him) down that day, because it was 'already Friday afternoon and it would soon be Sabbath". If Sabbath was on a Sunday, they could have taken down the bodies the next day. Those are only a few things where the majority is wrong. That can only mean that there is much more.
 
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 30, 2011, 08:03:14 AM
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Many Christians celebrate Christmas at 12/25. Scripture tells us Jesus was born somewhere between spring and autumn, because "shepherds were abiding in the field". They usually don't do that in winter. Many Christians observe Sunday as God's Holy day, the Sabbath, it is not. Saturday is Sabbath, and that is clear in the scriptures as well, since we know Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and the wanted to take the bodies (His and that of the two criminals next to him) down that day, because it was 'already Friday afternoon and it would soon be Sabbath". If Sabbath was on a Sunday, they could have taken down the bodies the next day. Those are only a few things where the majority is wrong. That can only mean that there is much more.
 

100% spot on abt both points re: xmas and sabbath. as well as the ultimate point of, if the majority are wrong about these minor points what even more important points are they missing...

sad. most people gobble up whatever they have been taught. we need to keep 'making the truth our own' and 'testing our faith' by continual study of gods word.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: RK on November 30, 2011, 09:53:12 AM
Quote
I believe myself to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, also I am baptized in the Holy Spirit, I speak in tongues etc.
Me too jono. That was the day that I woke up. Like stepping from the dark into the light. It has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man's attempt to please God. It never can or will. Being born again is being supernaturally birthed into the kingdom of God by blood and water, the blood of Jesus, the washing of the water of the word of God.

Revelations12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on December 01, 2011, 04:17:27 AM
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Quote
I believe myself to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, also I am baptized in the Holy Spirit, I speak in tongues etc.
Me too jono. That was the day that I woke up. Like stepping from the dark into the light. It has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man's attempt to please God. It never can or will. Being born again is being supernaturally birthed into the kingdom of God by blood and water, the blood of Jesus, the washing of the water of the word of God.

Revelations12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Agreed. Good post. Me neither consider myself being part of any religion, as you said; religion is man-made and something that does not please God.

Psalm 40:6-11 - Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened— burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. Then I said, “Here I am, I have come— it is written about me in the scroll. I desire to do your will, my God;  your law is within my heart.”

John 4:21-23 - Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
 
God is all about relationship, he wants to have fellowship with us. That is why he sent Jesus, to take all our sin away so that we can walk with Him once again. He does not want self-righteousness! Self-righteousness is pride, believing we can save ourselves through good deeds. No, all the glory and honor belongs to God and God alone.

Eph 2:8-9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Jesus' biggest problem, when here on earth, were the Pharisees, the most religious people to date. They knew all the rules (even created complementary rules), all the scriptures, all the procedures and all the prayers; still they did not recognize Him (the Word) when he stood right before them! Quite the contrary... They wanted Him crucified!

Read Matthew 23:1-36
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MJonmind on December 01, 2011, 05:56:32 AM
I just caught up on 4/5 pages, since the trial drama is winding down.  Souza I find it interesting that from an atheist position you are now jumping into the Biblical worldview (well maybe you're just exploring). I was thoroughly immersed in Bible and church involvement from almost birth, also 3 years Bible college. My last 10/12 years have led me the opposite direction holding those things more loosely.  I started asking questions that troubled me, exploring the many answers on the internet.  I still highly regard the Bible but now believe there is a lot more to understanding it than mere Bible study, which keeps one in a box of circular reasoning IMO.  I've gone into much detail on this and reasons elsewhere so I won't repeat myself. Like a deck of cards, much has come tumbling down, and I will never be locked into that belief system again. It's funny how I always was taught that Jehovah's Witnesses were a cult, but then in my own re-examining of Scriptures leaving no stone unturned, outside church thinking, before even studying about MJ, I was discovering that some things the JW's teach--I agreed with, also some 7th Day Adventist teaching, etc. ;)

Christians can be so dogmatic, get into libraries full of arguments over what the Bible teaches, and how to interpret things.  Meanwhile history shows-- the love was lost, and much emotional and bloody abuse prevailed over who was right and who wrong.  According to literal understanding of Jesus' words the vast majority of mankind, I'm guessing 9/10 out of 12 billion that have ever lived will be screaming in burning flames forever after they die. Makes a life sentence here nothing. The majority of those are under the magical age of accountability about 5 years of age (the church has rationalized), and they get a free pass to heaven.  It's all semantics, because the Bible doesn't really teach that at all.  All will be saved, we are all loved and precious. Michael is never teaching that we have to trust in Jesus to go to heaven, but rather that ALL people are loved by God and him, and that love will bring healing to the planet.

hesouttamylife
Quote
This thread feels so right to me.  I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them.  Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable.  Michael the Archangel just fits.  From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift.  Nothing else explains it.  From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him.  The list goes on and on.  This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial.  None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson.   His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience.  Michael Jackson is a Godsend.  Of thay my belief has never faltered.
Loved your post!

The Jesus of the Bible, the one people picture as the guy in a robe and sandels, has not come for 2000 plus years. I've posted elsewhere about all the times he promised the people standing there that they would not die before he came back, and it would be in their generation, and quickly, quickly.  Things are proven to have been added to the Bible by the Catholic church to preserve their power, such as the concept of the Trinity. I could go on and on. People have elevated that Jesus person (black-skinned by the way) more than they should, and somehow think it is impossible for our Michael to be that kind of a lofty person.  I say why not.  We are all created in God's image.  When Michael said that history taught to us has been a lie, that would include some of the interpretation/application of the Bible.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Starchild on December 01, 2011, 06:01:08 AM
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Quote
I believe myself to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, also I am baptized in the Holy Spirit, I speak in tongues etc.
Me too jono. That was the day that I woke up. Like stepping from the dark into the light. It has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man's attempt to please God. It never can or will. Being born again is being supernaturally birthed into the kingdom of God by blood and water, the blood of Jesus, the washing of the water of the word of God.

Revelations12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

The different denominations of Christianity are an interesting study.  Years ago, after deciding I wanted to “go deeper” in my relationship with God, I joined what is sometimes referred to as a “charismatic” or “holiness” church, that is, one where the belief is that it is necessary to get baptized in “Jesus’ name” and speak in tongues in order to gain salvation.  According to the tenets of the faith, I “tarried for the Holy Ghost” and spoke in tongues and was told that no matter what I did from that point on (i.e., no matter what path or direction of faith I chose to take), because I had spoken in tongues, I would always be “saved.”  Inevitably, as I studied the Bible with this particular denomination of Christianity, I began to compare the practices of this church with the practices of the church I grew up in.  Basically, the denominations interpreted the same Bible in two different ways and, thereby, lived their lives according to the Bible and practiced their faith in two different ways:

BAPTIST
No tongues for salvation necessary
No baptism “in Jesus name” necessary
No women clergy allowed
Members wore colorful, individual-style clothing
Facial makeup okay
Indulged in magazines and movies

PENTECOSTAL
Tongues for salvation
Baptism “in Jesus name” necessary
Women could be ordained ministers and pastors (the pastor of the church was a woman)
Members wore dark, drab, clone-type clothing (distinctive clothing frowned upon)
Facial makeup frowned upon
Magazines and movies frowned upon

In short, I got into discussions with the pastors of each church. I told neither pastor about the meeting that I had with the other. The funny thing is, they both asked me the same question, “Who’s talking to you?” In other words, they wanted to know who or what was feeding me these sudden, as I referred to them, “‘Aha’ questions and opinions”? I took notice when the first pastor asked this of me, but I didn’t have an answer; however, when the second pastor asked, in that moment, I realized that it was “I”, my Self/Soul, generating these sudden questions and opinions (Soul was “awake” and in charge, Souza  :lol: ).                     

Life is interesting to say the least.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MJonmind on December 01, 2011, 06:10:18 AM
Starchild, I've totally been there--lots of pride in whose more spiritual. Like you I started asking questions, which I only started getting answers to when I stepped outside of church. I now look back and see that as prison. I feel like a burden was lifted from me, of needing to save all the souls from hell.  It's a matrix. It's all part of God the Creator's plan for us to understand true love.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: fordtocarr on December 01, 2011, 09:05:26 AM
I think you are doing an amazing job of presenting the truth of the Bible Aussie, and Souza. 
Souza, as not being affiliated with a formal denomination, you are researching and applying the scriptures
accurately.  That is important to do and very easy when you have no slanted views to try to fit the
taught theories to.  It is where I began with theology.  I would simply take scriptures and cross reference to
let the Bible tell the truth.  Which it appears Souza is doing. 
I think it will be very hard to continue this discussion without it becoming  a which religion is right and which is
wrong.  I think we need to remember that this, ultimately is about Michael, and not about who is right and wrong, just with
every aspect of the hoax.
Aussie has it right, if we have questions regarding someone's religion, it is best to not put it out on the forum, as this is
about Michael, and not up to religious debates, which never would end..but one day...WILL  ;)
LOVE to all of you, we are all on the same path.  Looking for the truth in everything we do, in our heart, our soul and this
HOAX.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MissG on December 01, 2011, 02:37:40 PM
RTRL*
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 01, 2011, 02:48:45 PM
EXCELLENT POSTS JONO, AUSTIRAILIANMJBELIEVER, & BINDUPTHEBROKENHEARTED. /bravo/

THE TRINITY IS A MYSTERY WE WILL NEVER FULLY COMPREHEND; BUT HERE'S PART 1/3 OF A GOOD SERIES, Chuck Missler is one of the BEST teachers I have every heard out there on many subjects:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqErqTt7KLg[/youtube]


FOR THOSE WILLING TO TACKLE SOMETHING THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND; THIS IS JUST PART OF A SITE TS LINKED TO IN A PAST POST:

http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Creation_JJ.asp (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Creation_JJ.asp)

MUCH OF THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE DISCOVERY OF THE 777, THE END IS NEAR 777 & RELIGIOUS SYMBOLISM THREADS; 

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=12426.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=12426.0)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14506.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14506.0)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14516.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14516.0)

Michael Jackson is NOT the Archangel Michael; nor is Michael the Archangel Jesus or God.
http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-archangel.php (http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-archangel.php)
http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-trinity.php (http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-trinity.php)

MJ said he is not Jesus on many occasions; but imitates Jesus.  So if he says he's not Jesus then he is not Michael the Archangel by default as some believe...
Here's a great site on Michael's Faith:
  http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/His-Faith.html (http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/His-Faith.html)

Jesus is God; John 1.1 and Genesis 1.1 are geometrically integrated, with John 1.1 forming a trapezoidal base to the Triangle of Genesis (detailed in the previous page) with their sum resulting in the 112th Triangular number (recall the formula T(n) = n(n+1)/2):
 http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Creation_John1.asp (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Creation_John1.asp)
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_LogosStar_Genesis.asp (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_LogosStar_Genesis.asp)
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_LogosStar_Derivation.asp (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_LogosStar_Derivation.asp)

A great playlist I put together on YT may be of help: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCDA447D232841E77&feature=mh_lolz (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCDA447D232841E77&feature=mh_lolz)

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/do-you-believe-the-true-gospel (http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/do-you-believe-the-true-gospel)
God Bless you all bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MissG on December 01, 2011, 03:55:41 PM
Last year, this youtube user made a series of videos I watched out of curiosity. He compared different books and made the videos. Interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNHNRqhLNM&feature=related
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 01, 2011, 06:35:31 PM
Heptadic structure proves the Gospels are in perfect alignment: 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbaJfRwYxM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYwLvtnoyc[/youtube]

Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 01, 2011, 06:42:33 PM
Here's part 1 of another interesting series about Bible Codes:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFQ3IkqyO3Y[/youtube]
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on December 01, 2011, 07:33:34 PM

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/ (http://www.holyfire.org/eng/)

I can't stay much today, but here is a link that may be interesting.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on December 01, 2011, 08:15:39 PM
Ariel and MsTrinity, Thank you for all the videos.  I will watch a few each day because I am very interested in this.  It's fascinating to me because the bible and science are coming together.  The link for the youtube series you posted is great Ms. Trinity333.  Ariel, Did you know about the miracle of the holy fire all along ?  I never heard or saw anything about it before so thanks for sharing.  I am from the U.S. and have been to Catholic churches as a kid.  I quit going there and then started going to a lot of other Christian Churches on and off these last 10 years.  Where are you from ?  Did you ever go to Jerusalem ?   

I'm so glad we have the internet to share information.  If it wasn't for your help I wouldn't have found that for a very long time if ever. 

Love     bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on December 01, 2011, 08:34:59 PM
Back for a moment. I don't want people to think that the miracle of the Holy fire belong to a particular denomination. People from all denominations are present every year and testimonies may be found in the web, and no accidents happen by the way. Many centuries ago a particular denomination was kicked out of the temple by roman catholic priests. That year the fire descended later and near the place where those kicked out people waited. They celebrate it every year and do not dare to kick out anybody.

Edit. I made a mistake, explanation two post below. The link is correct.

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on December 01, 2011, 09:34:34 PM
Ariel,  thanks for the information.  That's interesting that the fire started where the people were kicked out.  It's also interesting that the Catholic priests were the ones who kicked them out.  I wasn't thinking that it was for any specific denomination.  I was trying to figure out why I never heard of it before.  My parents took me to the Catholic church as a child.  I don't remember hearing anything about it.  I quit the Catholic church a long time ago and now go to other churches sometimes.  It seem's that this miracle has been celebrated a very long time.   


Peace and Love
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MJonmind on December 01, 2011, 10:00:23 PM
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Last year, this youtube user made a series of videos I watched out of curiosity. He compared different books and made the videos. Interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNHNRqhLNM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNHNRqhLNM&feature=related)
MissG, there are some strong reasons why certain groups reject Apostle Paul as sent by God, and say he is a false prophet.  I've studied that in the past, but I'm not sure where I stand on that.  There is a whole gamut of dogmatic beliefs out there, each with their proofs for their position, and that argue for opposite sides on most doctrines and issues.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Ariel on December 02, 2011, 12:19:47 AM
DONTWALKAWAY, I made a mistake. These people were kicked out twice, two different years, once by roman catholic priest, one by Armenian priests. The fire started where they were the second time, when Armenians threw them out, but it is still interesting. I have to do more research to see what happened the first time.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: jono on December 02, 2011, 03:05:14 AM
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Heptadic structure proves the Gospels are in perfect alignment: 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbaJfRwYxM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYwLvtnoyc[/youtube]



Thank you for posting this.. Amazing!  /bravo/

I really like Missler. He is a sharp gentleman! He knows his stuff  8-)

I bet you this guy is actually TS... All this logic thinking and numerology!  lolol/
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 02, 2011, 05:44:20 PM
Thank you Jono & Dontwalkaway.   bearhug  Ariel; I will check out your link.  respect/

For those who want to dig deeper into Chuck Missler I have a whole other YT playlist dedicated to just his videos.  No matter how many times I watch them or see him on GODTV I always learn something NEW. His grasp on Greek, Hebrew, Physics, Science & the Bible just AMAZE ME. God truly is the Greatest Scientist and we see through a glass darkly. 

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAF07B93F6AF58998&feature=mh_lolz (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAF07B93F6AF58998&feature=mh_lolz)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on December 03, 2011, 03:18:50 PM
Wow Ms.Trinity333.  The video about the Bible codes and the Heptadic structure is great !  Wow !    I think it is highly unlikely that common people could have written the gospels on their own.  The structure of it is sooooooooooooo complicated.  They had to have a connection to the divine or higher dimensions to do this.  It's fascinating that science and the bible are coming together.  There is so much science that we haven't discovered yet and guess what.  It's probably in the bible !!!!!!!!!!!!

This feeling reminds me of this song, Speechless by Michael Jackson

"Helpless and hopless that's how I feel inside, Nothing's real but all is possible if God is on my side"
"Speechless,Speechless, that's how you make me feel, when I'm with you, I'm in the light, where I cannot be found, it is as though, I am standing in, a place called hallowed ground"   

and " Faces filled with madness, Miracles unheard of, hold on
Faith is found in the winds
All we have to do is reach for the truth                from the song, "Cry", invincible album

"Let the truth unfurl"  (from "Wanna be starting something"),  "change the frequency on your dial" (from Thriller)

And I can keep on going and going like that .......... 

Thankyou for helping me "reach for the truth".  It's like being "born again", but I don't speak in "tongues".  I talk by using different parts of Michael Jackson's songs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Love        /bravo/


Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: hesouttamylife on December 03, 2011, 03:41:08 PM
 /bravo/ I believe there are very important lessons to be learned from Michael Jackson songs too.  So deep.  I’m with you on that.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: RK on December 03, 2011, 11:39:19 PM
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Quote
I believe myself to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, also I am baptized in the Holy Spirit, I speak in tongues etc.
Me too jono. That was the day that I woke up. Like stepping from the dark into the light. It has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man's attempt to please God. It never can or will. Being born again is being supernaturally birthed into the kingdom of God by blood and water, the blood of Jesus, the washing of the water of the word of God.

Revelations12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

The different denominations of Christianity are an interesting study.  Years ago, after deciding I wanted to “go deeper” in my relationship with God, I joined what is sometimes referred to as a “charismatic” or “holiness” church, that is, one where the belief is that it is necessary to get baptized in “Jesus’ name” and speak in tongues in order to gain salvation.  According to the tenets of the faith, I “tarried for the Holy Ghost” and spoke in tongues and was told that no matter what I did from that point on (i.e., no matter what path or direction of faith I chose to take), because I had spoken in tongues, I would always be “saved.”  Inevitably, as I studied the Bible with this particular denomination of Christianity, I began to compare the practices of this church with the practices of the church I grew up in.  Basically, the denominations interpreted the same Bible in two different ways and, thereby, lived their lives according to the Bible and practiced their faith in two different ways:

BAPTIST
No tongues for salvation necessary
No baptism “in Jesus name” necessary
No women clergy allowed
Members wore colorful, individual-style clothing
Facial makeup okay
Indulged in magazines and movies

PENTECOSTAL
Tongues for salvation
Baptism “in Jesus name” necessary
Women could be ordained ministers and pastors (the pastor of the church was a woman)
Members wore dark, drab, clone-type clothing (distinctive clothing frowned upon)
Facial makeup frowned upon
Magazines and movies frowned upon

In short, I got into discussions with the pastors of each church. I told neither pastor about the meeting that I had with the other. The funny thing is, they both asked me the same question, “Who’s talking to you?” In other words, they wanted to know who or what was feeding me these sudden, as I referred to them, “‘Aha’ questions and opinions”? I took notice when the first pastor asked this of me, but I didn’t have an answer; however, when the second pastor asked, in that moment, I realized that it was “I”, my Self/Soul, generating these sudden questions and opinions (Soul was “awake” and in charge, Souza  :lol: ).                     

Life is interesting to say the least.
Exactly. That's religion. Outward appearances such as drab clothing / no make up mean nothing. It's the inward man of the heart where we put on Christ. Religion tries to make people embrace conformity. Whereas,  according to the scriptures, Christ's sacrifice is so sufficient that whether I am a spiritual baby, or a redeemed person who has been walking in a progressive revelation  with and by the Spirit of God, I am complete IN HIM and because of Him..... Relationship not religion..... My daughter was just as much my daughter at 6 months old as she is now as an adult. The difference being, she has more wisdom and discernment now and doesn't need a carer to do everything for her. The same applies in the spiritual realm. I will always be thankful to those loving people who were a sounding board for me and prayer warriors on my behalf.  They sure did have their work cut out for them. They were like spiritual fathers and mothers and I messed myself and cried and whinged a lot in those days.  But I did start to grow and actually thrive on the food provided. As a believer in divine revelation, the dogmas, traditions, and rules and regulations of men leave me cold. Rather, it's a walk in the spirit. However,  people have stopped and made camp, built churches around spiritual truths and experiences. Whether that be from the revelation of Martin Luther, where the doctrine of justification by faith was restored to the Church, through to the other great men and women pioneers  such as Smith Wigglesworth, John G Lake, E.W. Kenyon, John Wesley, Kathryn Kuhlman, Aimee McPherson to recall a few off hand. People who were instrumental in restoring back much of what had been lost to the church during the dark ages. All people used by the Spirit of God to bring the Church during their time upon the earth to a place of spiritual advancement. See, the early Church of the book of Acts started off in a wave of glory. But one by one, the true doctrines  of Christ were lost experientially and the gospel was like the corn of wheat that went into the ground and died. And it lay hidden within the dark ages until Martin Luther nailed his thesis on the Church door and birthed the start of the protestant reformation.
Were these people perfect? No. We don't have to look too far to see their human faults, but in spite of them, God still used them mightily. Which brings us to today...and the Church of the Living God, the building made without hands and comprising of living stones is still moving on.  A habitation for God to dwell in by His Spirit= Progressive revelation. 
You know, if a person was to look at me and judge me, they would probably say you don't look like a Christian......and they'd be right in their assessment. I come from a childhood raised as an athiest, followed by communal living on a farm of alternate lifestylers, while fronting bands for a living. Never once have I felt the need to conform to outward appearances of religion. Today, I still don't eat meat. Not because I embrace Seventh Day Adventist doctrines...simply because I don't like it and have a unique empathy with animals,  the way God  made me. I still wear colourful harem pants. Why....simply comfort. While man looks at the outward appearance, God looks at the heart[[ 1 Samuel16:7] So yeah. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has set you free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
I know that any good thing, any success I have had as a parent, building and  maintaining a marriage that has endured 35 years and any good character that is now apparent in me is because of Jesus Christ and I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God . Left to my own devices, pre- Christianity, I was a lying, corrupt, drug addict, who wouldn't be still alive today.
This is the grace...the unmerited favour of God that He has displayed toward me and this is my testimony....my experience....
P.S. I do not hold that a person has to speak in tongues to be saved. But it is another experience that was restored to the Church through much persecution from some of the religious / church leaders of their day.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Starchild on December 04, 2011, 01:27:19 AM
It's nice to hear about the spiritual experiences of others, similarities as well as differences.  Thanks for sharing, RK.   :)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 05, 2011, 10:08:54 AM
Wonderful posts you guys...  /bravo/
Christianity isn't a new Religion; it's a Relationship!  It started in the garden with Adam & Eve. 

 respect/
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on December 05, 2011, 10:12:51 AM
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Wonderful posts you guys...  /bravo/
Christianity isn't a new Religion; it's a Relationship!  It started in the garden with Adam & Eve. 

 respect/

too right. started with adam. ends with jesus. no salvation through any other being. :)

praise jah
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 05, 2011, 10:25:52 AM
Genesis 1:1  This is another guy that blows my mind with the stuff he's found looking at things in the Jewish mindset. His name is Mark Blitz.
We need to stop thinking like Gentiles and get back to our Jewish roots. With God, Prophecy is Pattern.  I believe Hebrew (just like their music)  is indeed a supernatural language... It's original roots are picture oriented, & very precise. 


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHEwB-KAkoA[/youtube]
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on December 06, 2011, 04:37:50 AM
I don't know if this belongs here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069765/Ark-Covenant-revealed-leaking-roof-Ethiopian-chapel.html
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on December 06, 2011, 01:26:27 PM
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I don't know if this belongs here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069765/Ark-Covenant-revealed-leaking-roof-Ethiopian-chapel.html

Definitely the right place Gina!

The real ark is still in Jerusalem, so if they have anything, it's not real.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 06, 2011, 02:29:21 PM
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I don't know if this belongs here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069765/Ark-Covenant-revealed-leaking-roof-Ethiopian-chapel.html

Definitely the right place Gina!

The real ark is still in Jerusalem, so if they have anything, it's not real.

This is what I heard also about 20-25 yrs ago on TBN. It was found sealed in tunnels somewhere under Jerusalem; the Priests have seen it, and it is being protected until the third Temple is built. All the implements have/are being made, Priests have been trained, robes made, and the Red Heifer has been found and is being bred. 

What is the mystery that surrounds the Ark of the Covenant?

Where is the Ark of God? And what is its ultimate destiny?

The Ark of the Covenant, a prominent fixture in the narratives of the Old Testament, certainly seems to have disappeared from view after the Babylonian captivity, which began in 606 B.C. There are many theories as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant. In the popularized and well-attended fantasy movie, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the mystery surrounding the Ark was dramatized. In this provocative study, Chuck and Bob discuss the mystery surrounding the Ark, new evidence of its possible location and the future role it may play in the end times.

Seat of Mercy Part 1: The Ultimate Compass
Listen to Part 1 »

Seat of Mercy Part 2: Where is the Ark of the Covenant?
Listen to Part 2 »

Seat of Mercy Part 3: How did it get there?
Listen to Part 3 »

Seat of Mercy Part 4: The Fate of the Ark of the Covenent
Listen to Part 4 »

http://www.khouse.org/6640/CDA07-1/ (http://www.khouse.org/6640/CDA07-1/)
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: fordtocarr on December 06, 2011, 02:59:26 PM
Just a reminder, that we are once again believing what we've learned from the media.
I really wonder if God would've left these ancient tablets or the container to be found so that
the people of earth would worship and admire "IT" instead of the creator of it....
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on December 06, 2011, 07:10:53 PM
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I don't know if this belongs here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069765/Ark-Covenant-revealed-leaking-roof-Ethiopian-chapel.html

Definitely the right place Gina!

The real ark is still in Jerusalem, so if they have anything, it's not real.

This is what I heard also about 20-25 yrs ago on TBN. It was found sealed in tunnels somewhere under Jerusalem; the Priests have seen it, and it is being protected until the third Temple is built. All the implements have/are being made, Priests have been trained, robes made, and the Red Heifer has been found and is being bred. 

What is the mystery that surrounds the Ark of the Covenant?

Where is the Ark of God? And what is its ultimate destiny?

The Ark of the Covenant, a prominent fixture in the narratives of the Old Testament, certainly seems to have disappeared from view after the Babylonian captivity, which began in 606 B.C. There are many theories as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant. In the popularized and well-attended fantasy movie, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the mystery surrounding the Ark was dramatized. In this provocative study, Chuck and Bob discuss the mystery surrounding the Ark, new evidence of its possible location and the future role it may play in the end times.

Seat of Mercy Part 1: The Ultimate Compass
Listen to Part 1 »

Seat of Mercy Part 2: Where is the Ark of the Covenant?
Listen to Part 2 »

Seat of Mercy Part 3: How did it get there?
Listen to Part 3 »

Seat of Mercy Part 4: The Fate of the Ark of the Covenent
Listen to Part 4 »

http://www.khouse.org/6640/CDA07-1/ (http://www.khouse.org/6640/CDA07-1/)

Thanks for these MissTrinity!

I am going to listen to them later.
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 07, 2011, 03:58:30 PM
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I don't know if this belongs here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069765/Ark-Covenant-revealed-leaking-roof-Ethiopian-chapel.html

Definitely the right place Gina!

The real ark is still in Jerusalem, so if they have anything, it's not real.

This is what I heard also about 20-25 yrs ago on TBN. It was found sealed in tunnels somewhere under Jerusalem; the Priests have seen it, and it is being protected until the third Temple is built. All the implements have/are being made, Priests have been trained, robes made, and the Red Heifer has been found and is being bred. 

What is the mystery that surrounds the Ark of the Covenant?

Where is the Ark of God? And what is its ultimate destiny?

The Ark of the Covenant, a prominent fixture in the narratives of the Old Testament, certainly seems to have disappeared from view after the Babylonian captivity, which began in 606 B.C. There are many theories as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant. In the popularized and well-attended fantasy movie, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the mystery surrounding the Ark was dramatized. In this provocative study, Chuck and Bob discuss the mystery surrounding the Ark, new evidence of its possible location and the future role it may play in the end times.

Seat of Mercy Part 1: The Ultimate Compass
Listen to Part 1 »

Seat of Mercy Part 2: Where is the Ark of the Covenant?
Listen to Part 2 »

Seat of Mercy Part 3: How did it get there?
Listen to Part 3 »

Seat of Mercy Part 4: The Fate of the Ark of the Covenent
Listen to Part 4 »

http://www.khouse.org/6640/CDA07-1/ (http://www.khouse.org/6640/CDA07-1/)

Thanks for these MissTrinity!

I am going to listen to them later.

 bearhug
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on December 28, 2011, 06:37:24 PM
I've got an update for you guys.   bounce/ :)
Grant Jeffrey covers the True Ark; as in the physical one in part two http://www.god.tv/node/192
I started with part one... this guy is one of the Best of the best concerning Bible Prophecy & End Times study, this whole series has guests from the very top of this field. I encourage everyone to listen to the whole series; both season 1 & 2. It's been a while since I've gone through them so I am personally going through all the links I have posted lately myself picking up important information I have forgotten. It's very interesting, in part two he says they have it...The Sanhedrin...in Jerusalem...the physical Ark. It's been brought back from Ethiopia.

All of The Book of Revelation Chuck Missler: http://www.god.tv/node/2617
All of Apocalypse & the End Times - Series 1:  http://www.god.tv/node/192
Apocalypse & the End Times - Series 2: http://www.god.tv/node/204
Title: Re: Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.
Post by: ~Souza~ on December 28, 2011, 06:56:01 PM
Thread closed. Please copy your posts from this thread to the new forum: http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?action=community

But please keep sharing hoax-related Biblical discussions on this forum!
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