Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TMZ.com => Michael Jackson News => TMZ Articles => Topic started by: _Anna_ on November 13, 2011, 11:37:58 AM
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Michael JacksonFormer Manager Says Propofol Use Began in 1999
11/13/2011 7:22 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/11/13/1113-michael-jackson-getty-credit.jpg)
Michael Jackson took Propofol as early as 1999, a former manager claims in a new book -- and says Jackson was late to his 30th anniversary concerts because he was drugged up.
Frank Cascio, a former personal assistant to Jackson who eventually became his close friend and manager, writes that he first noticed Jackson taking Demerol in 1993 during his "Dangerous" tour. He says Jackson was first introduced to the drug in 1984, after Jackson burned his head during a Pepsi commercial shoot.
In the book, an advanced copy of which was obtained by the AP, Cascio claims Jackson took Propofol in 1999 after a stage accident in Munich.
Cascio says he spoke to Jackson's siblings about his drug use in 2001 and they tried to approach Jackson about it -- but MJ "simply pushed them away."
Writing about Jackson's death, Cascio says Michael "died in his endless quest to attain some inner peace."
http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/13/michael-jackson-book-frank-cascio/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/13/michael-jackson-book-frank-cascio/)
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We need pharmacists to speak outside their small twitter accounts.
People, managers and media especially, still have no clue about what
is Demerol and what is Propofol and what are they taken for.
I get impression for most out there Demerol=Propofol. Which is wrong on
so many levels. Education anyone? Special courses for media people.
Okay. I thought the initial story was Michael couldn't sleep during HIStory tour
[he hated touring, he had reasons]
and maybe that's when he first needed anaesthesiologist to travel with him.
Propofol or it's analogue was used - no idea.
Demerol has it's own story, painkillers started in 80s and were battled in around 1993.
Demerol was making come back in early 00s, and our pretty Dr.Klein was using it
on Michael in 09 as we all know now, irregular doses but really a questionable
choice for a patient with a history of painkillers addiction, be it 80s or 00s.
Propofol is not physically addictive. Michael could be psychologically dependant
at this point, with the thought of "nothing else will help me sleep!", but we do not
know if the whole Propofol story is true at all or was made up for hoax purpose.
Ok, I bored even myself at this point :oops:
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The 999 of the '1999' stands out to me.
That, and the mention of the Pepsi fire - 9282 days - from birth to fire and from fire to "death".
And if you add up all these numbers - 11/13/2011 7:22 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF - you get 21 which is 777!
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Being the perfectionist, I can believe that Michael never slept well during any major tour. He often said himself how he would be so energized and wound up that it was extremely hard for him to come down and relax. So he took propofol in 1999. I took it myself in 1989 and will take it again if needed. That doesnot make me addicted to it. But believe me, if ever I have to be put under for ANYTHING, just like Michael, I will ask for my milk. /cook/
My desire for propofol is because I don’t want to know anything that’s going on when invasive procedures are being done. That’s my reason. Otherwise, I am obivlious to it, which is the same way I see Michael’s need for it. Only when he is experiencing high anxiety as only a tour would make him, and he needed, NO, it was IMPERATIVE for him to sleep in order to get through it giving it his everything and then some. I don’t necessarily agreee with it, but I can truly understand it.
But does that necessarily make him addicted to it? Not necessarily. It’s his drug of choice to do what he needs to be done when he needs it to be done. If Michael Jackson didn’t need propofol to sleep otherwise, outside of touring, then it was simply something he relied on because he knew from experience (the best teacher) that IT WORKED when it needed to work. And he suffered no major consequences from it when his doctor followed his job responsiilities to the letter. MONITOR HIM! That’s they key element. M.O.N.I.T.O.R
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The 999 of the '1999' stands out to me.
That, and the mention of the Pepsi fire - 9282 days - from birth to fire and from fire to "death".
And if you add up all these numbers - 11/13/2011 7:22 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF - you get 21 which is 777!
Exactly Andrea. 9 9 9 issue again. ;) And what a great timing of TMZ once again! :lol:
Cascios knows about the hoax imo. And they're saying what Michael wants them to say. I do not believe Michael was or is a drug addict.
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This video seems to indicate the Michael may have be doing Propofol as early as 1997. If you listen carefully around the 2:36 mark, it suggests that a doctor was with Michael when he woke up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ru1wO1nSk[/youtube]
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This video seems to indicate the Michael may have be doing Propofol as early as 1997. If you listen carefully around the 2:36 mark, it suggests that a doctor was with Michael when he woke up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ru1wO1nSk[/youtube]
Yea I remember watching this interview a long time ago and thinking it was weird that a doctor was there when he woke up. But with Michael you can never know if he said that just for the purpose of planting the seeds in our minds or not. I believe he talked about how he would make up stories for the tabloids (sleeping in the chamber, buying the elephant man's bones, etc.) in this interview too.
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I also wanted to comment on the reflection in Michael's glasses. Is is normal for both lenses to have the same reflection??
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love when mj turns of the light. 'ca-ching!" so cute!
hate (sorry stong word) barbara walters in this interview.
she asks mj isnt it a journalists role to be harh, to uncover things and seek the truth.
why? when? who made journos and media god. makes me so angry this interview.
its been years since i have watched it, yet is still rages me!
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OK so first he was given morphine for the pain after the pepsi accident.
This was for pain.
Then the Jordan Chandler episode happened so he took what? Morphine or propofol? Why would he have taken it? For sure didn't solve his problem with Jordan Chandler.
If he couldn't sleep why he didn't drink some lime tea :roll: or a glass of hot milk (real milk) or why he didn't just do some physical activity to help him sleep better?
suspicious// suspicious// suspicious//
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makes me angry when people judge. big deal. he took some tablets to sleep, or didnt. who cares. makes me angry because if someone falsely accused me in public forum of being a peodephile and the whole world was watching and there were court cases, bodily examinations, interrogation, etc, I wouldnt be able to sleep either and I DEFINITELY would have taken something to help me sleep. what an ordeal. any human going thru what mj went thru would have dealt with this ugly situation with desperation.
it was horrible. we can never fathom the extent of humilitaion that mj endured.
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He was too young maybe.
Too young to go through it.
He shouldn't have cared so much.
I'm not judging him for taking pills (if this is true anyway).
I just don't understand why he would do it when there are other ways, better ways. People who can not control them selves take pills. MJ like I imagine him must have been stronger than that. But who knows, maybe he was weak.
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Propofol use began in 1999? suspicious//
Okay I have to confess, I didn't follow Michaels career much after 1994(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-025.gif) (http://www.smileyvault.com/)
.....but I was under the impression he stopped touring in 1997 (History tour)
So why would he need the propofol from 1999 on to be routinely "put to sleep"?
....am I missing something here? :?
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@gina, my comment is directed more at cascio not you hun. sorry i didnt specify.
however i dont think taking a few pills when under this pressure makes him weak. the stress he ws under was enormous.
easy for us to say, have a glass of milk or do some physical activity to go to sleep.
have you ever been under extreme mental stress. anxiety. i know i have. and i know that they were nights when i could not sleep no matter how much exercise i did. no matter how much milk i drank, etc. if there is extreme stress, the brain finds it hard to let go and shut down. the 'mouse wheel' is still turning so one cant get to sleep.
in regards to your comment abt physical activity. MJ does more physical activity than any other performer. we know that. esp is the dangerous period. so i dont think your suggestion would have been a solution for him.
the issues with the accusations were not simple issues. they were complex. therefore needing more than a simple solution. perhaps medicated sleeping was best for him at this stage.
also what would we know? we only get this info from the media... how do we know a doc wasnt professionally medicating him to sleep and then his prev manager wants to throw mud and say he had drug problems. everyone loves throwing mud at mj. and if they get paid for the interview then that 'mud slinging' is an 'investment'
we really dont know the extext of drug abuse or if there was any at all.
and if there was, it certainly does not make him weak. or anyone for that matter. we are all human.
MJ is human. amazing yes. but not superhuman. hard to believe i know....
my point is, we all have physical limits.
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Who with even half a brain would believe Michael would ask for propofol to sleep? Seriously, even if you thought he was not the sharpest tool in the box before this hoax, you would at least know now that he is a very intelligent and educated man. He knows propofol doesn't make you sleep, it puts you under. That's it. If he wanted to sleep, he would have asked for sleep medication, not an anesthetic. I don't believe that for a second. I could imagine he could have had a demerol dependency after that bridge 'accident' back in 1999, because that MUST have hurt like crazy. But dependency doesn't have to mean he was addicted. I had my tonsils removed when I was 23, which I can tell you hurts like hell if you are an adult. For a week or two, I had a depency for pain killers, simply because I wanted the pain to go away. As soon as the pain got less, my pain killer use got less, until I could do without. That didn't make me addicted to them, yet I depended on them. I don't know how severe his back pain was after that, but from what I have read and heard it was kinda serious. Could mean he had a demerol dependency for a while. Doesn't make him a hardcore drug addict.
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@ souza. agree 100%
I also overlooked mentioning in my post that even if he was helped to sleep in dangerous era, it certainly wasnt with propofol. more than likely a sedative / pill of some sort.
NB - Also just edited previous post. a spelling error made my sentance sound a different way than i intended. i typed "want" instead of "wasnt"
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But dependency doesn't have to mean he was addicted. I had my tonsils removed when I was 23, which I can tell you hurts like hell if you are an adult. For a week or two, I had a depency for pain killers, simply because I wanted the pain to go away. As soon as the pain got less, my pain killer use got less, until I could do without.
actually this example, punctuates my point exactly. thank souza. dependency isnt always a negative word. your pain free state "depended" (another word for "required") on you taking pain medication. it doesnt make you an abuser of pain meds. its doesnt make you an addict and it certainly doesnt make you weak. it simply means you were in a state of pain and to stay out of the pain or to make it tolerable you neeeded to depend or rely on pain medication.
same thing gina, with needing to sleep.
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Frank is in on the hoax IMO. I have this book arriving by snail mail as I type. But I'm reminded of his cameo in David Gest's doco Life Of An Icon where he talks about MJ not arriving at the gig for opening on the 30th aniversary concerts. Upon where he found Michael off his tree on demerol and had to get him to the show. I call B.S.
In the foreword of The Man In The Music...Anthony De Curtis writes his observations of Michael as he was, during the rehearsals for the Maddison Square concerts. He goes on to say MJ was relaxed and completely in control. His tone was always friendly, respectful and professional. And Michael was very focussed. To me this doesn't sound like a drug addict.
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I'm 46 yo, and I still take something to help me to sleep.........I have a 5mg valium, and combine that with 5 x 25mg tablets of phenergan........
That's been my life.....I have trouble sleeping and I don't know why....
I am dependant on drugs to get me to sleep...........does it affect my performance during the day??
Absolutley not........
Do I look like a typical "drug addict"? Absolutely not. !!
There are so many over the counter medications he could of taken without all this drama..
Especially PHENERGAN....My god, they give it to kids to help them sleep on planes....
So for this reason, I would say that all this talk about MJ being addicted to prescription drugs, is just a way to keep him in the news and keep the world undecided until the day the whole truth is revealed....I'm leaning towards the motive of hoaxing his death is to bring down the "Dr Feelgoods" and expose the hidden agenda of the "Illuminati MK ultra programming".
Otherwise, it would be really disrepectful that family and friends keep talking about him this way.
Remember. Elvis was supposedly "kept" drugged all day...He was having uppers during the day and downers at night to help him sleep..
Both KINGS were totally against drugs......... mj_bad/ mj_bad/ elvis_/ elvis_/ elvis_/
Victims were drugged with "Demerol" from way back in history...they controlled humans minds this way..
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I notice that there are several times listed where he was "allegedly" taking pain meds, or sleep meds due to stress. I notice that 2005 is never mentioned. Wouldn't that be one of the prime times he would be under the most stress?
Tom Meseraeu even said "I was around him at the lowest point in his life and I never saw him in that state (slurring). He was always articulate." (those aren't his exact words, but you get the picture)
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I totally believe Michael was not taking anything during 2005 trial.
He was very much himself, fully aware and "sober".. and that's why
he was suffering so much :cry: The sharp pain wasn't muted by any
medication.
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@gina, my comment is directed more at cascio not you hun. sorry i didnt specify.
however i dont think taking a few pills when under this pressure makes him weak. the stress he ws under was enormous.
easy for us to say, have a glass of milk or do some physical activity to go to sleep.
have you ever been under extreme mental stress. anxiety. i know i have. and i know that they were nights when i could not sleep no matter how much exercise i did. no matter how much milk i drank, etc. if there is extreme stress, the brain finds it hard to let go and shut down. the 'mouse wheel' is still turning so one cant get to sleep.
in regards to your comment abt physical activity. MJ does more physical activity than any other performer. we know that. esp is the dangerous period. so i dont think your suggestion would have been a solution for him.
the issues with the accusations were not simple issues. they were complex. therefore needing more than a simple solution. perhaps medicated sleeping was best for him at this stage.
also what would we know? we only get this info from the media... how do we know a doc wasnt professionally medicating him to sleep and then his prev manager wants to throw mud and say he had drug problems. everyone loves throwing mud at mj. and if they get paid for the interview then that 'mud slinging' is an 'investment'
we really dont know the extext of drug abuse or if there was any at all.
and if there was, it certainly does not make him weak. or anyone for that matter. we are all human.
MJ is human. amazing yes. but not superhuman. hard to believe i know....
my point is, we all have physical limits.
I've been under extreme stress. I have problems sleeping. I don't drink tea or milk for it. I can not shut down my thoughts. But I still don't take pills. I tried and I only slept for an extra hour, but my head was heavy when I woke up.
If his insomnia was so severe he could have consulted a specialist. Why bother using drugs that are not for sleep?
It doesn't make sense to me. If I have a medical problem I go to the specialist doctor right? I don't go to a cardiologist if I have a headache. I don't go to the dentist if I have a gynecological problem.
It doesn't make sense what they say he did.
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If his insomnia was so severe he could have consulted a specialist. Why bother using drugs that are not for sleep?
It doesn't make sense to me. If I have a medical problem I go to the specialist doctor right? I don't go to a cardiologist if I have a headache. I don't go to the dentist if I have a gynecological problem.
It doesn't make sense what they say he did.
and if it doesnt make sense, then it probably isnt true.
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Even if we assumed that he is really dead....the AR says he was in fairly good condition for someone at the age of 50.
Just think about it for a second....someone who is able to preserve his body in such a good condition up to the age of 50 must have been taking good care of his health throughout the years. Living healthy on one hand and on the other hand pumping ones body with drugs makes no sense at all.
So much for the "drug addict theory".....
And I am sure that he is/was deadly afraid of anything that could harm his body seriously or even endanger his life.
Come on....he´s not dumb.....
He´s a very smart guy and most of all a responsible father!
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The 999 of the '1999' stands out to me.
That, and the mention of the Pepsi fire - 9282 days - from birth to fire and from fire to "death".
And if you add up all these numbers - 11/13/2011 7:22 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF - you get 21 which is 777!
You forgot the 777 (9282=21) on each side of the Pepsi fire day. That's why I believe it to be a hoax, introducing the druggie aspect to the world to make it buyable. It may have been the first MaJician's act!
I notice that there are several times listed where he was "allegedly" taking pain meds, or sleep meds due to stress. I notice that 2005 is never mentioned. Wouldn't that be one of the prime times he would be under the most stress?
Tom Meseraeu even said "I was around him at the lowest point in his life and I never saw him in that state (slurring). He was always articulate." (those aren't his exact words, but you get the picture)
Yes, he said it so clearly and beautifully, as well as the lawyer Susan Yu. I will admit that MJ did look in rough shape at one point (which the media like to dwell on) but that's when he slipped and fell in his shower hurting his back. Interpretation is key.
Just before MJ came out in front of the curtain at the 02, he supposedly was reported to be drunk sleeping. They had to try to get him sobered up to speak, which he did a mesmerizing brilliant job of. So I call another hoax lie. ;)
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Frank is in on the hoax IMO. I have this book arriving by snail mail as I type. But I'm reminded of his cameo in David Gest's doco Life Of An Icon where he talks about MJ not arriving at the gig for opening on the 30th aniversary concerts. Upon where he found Michael off his tree on demerol and had to get him to the show. I call B.S.
In the foreword of The Man In The Music...Anthony De Curtis writes his observations of Michael as he was, during the rehearsals for the Maddison Square concerts. He goes on to say MJ was relaxed and completely in control. His tone was always friendly, respectful and professional. And Michael was very focussed. To me this doesn't sound like a drug addict.
I agree. I don't believe Michael would ever take Propofol to sleep. I also don't believe he's been drug addicted - ever.
When I heard about Frank's comments the first thing I thought about was the family on Oprah saying they never saw any drug problems at all. So, either he lied on the Oprah show or he's lying now.
I also read the observations by Anthony DeCurtis and cannot believe that in his observations Michael is very much in charge, precisely knowing what he wants, and is friendly and had a great time laughing in rehearsals. Very professional. Turning that around to Frank who says Michael was drugged up and late to his own show.
That leads me to a couple of questions and comments.
1) MJ's makeup artist, Karen, also said Michael was drugged up during the 2001 concert. She made statements that he was in his dressing room all drugged up and they had to get him revived enough to go on stage. I believe she said that when Michael goes on stage it wasn't noticeable because performing is so natural for him that he doesn't need to think about it.
2) MJ's children were with him. Where were they when he was so drugged up? Michael always took care of his children. They were on the side of the stage watching him so they were with him.
3) Michael's mother was at the concert and even stayed at the same place with Michael. I also can't believe he'd be drugged up with her around. He adores her.
4) The next morning was 9/11. He had presence of mind to immediately give orders to get his family and friends out of New York by way of bus. Stories from fans said he learned that they couldn't get home when flights were grounded and didn't have rooms. He paid for their rooms in another town and even paid for some meals. This is not the mind of someone who is drugged up. IMO.
Bottom line - Frank would need to be in on the hoax. Or he lied on Oprah. But why would he and his family lie only to turn around and make these statements.
Also about the 2005 timeframe - if there were ever a time he would need something to sleep it would be then. And there was no sign of it.
I remember watching an interview with Tim McGraw and he made a comment that after concerts it is hard to sleep so he stays up until morning and then sleep during the day. I also read the same thing with other musicians - that their family sleeps and oftentimes they are still up until early morning. That appears to be common with musicians. Michael would be no different.
Blessings on your day :)
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During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.
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I, too, take a prescription sleep aide (Lunesta) every night. I am not able to sleep without it as my brain just won't shut off. I am also naturally a night owl, but yet require at least 8 hours of sleep. (otherwise I get sick super easily) I don't take it in the summer as I am not under stress (I teach) and I am able to sleep the hours that my night owl body likes (1 am-10 am)
Lunesta does not affect my every day functioning, but my every day functioning is affected when I don't take Lunesta as I'm up almost the entire night. I never quite get into a deep sleep and am wake up several times each hour. It's absolutely frustrating.
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During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.
But Propofol doesn't give you the sleep you need. How can they wake up refreshed? I'm confused.
EDIT: I can understand sleep disorders and problems with falling asleep. I'm thankful I don't need anything to sleep but I know lots of people who do. I'm not saying Michael didn't have problems sleeping. The problem I have is with believing he took Propofol nightly to sleep. He would not have been able to function. And, if he took it nightly and Murray was only in his life for for a short while, who gave it to him during the months before Murray came on board?
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Good question, Voice....who DID give him propofol before Murray if he did in fact take it? (I also don't believe he took propofol for sleep...especially if it only lasts for 10 minutes.) I sure hope we find some answers to these questions when it's all said and done.
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If his insomnia was so severe he could have consulted a specialist. Why bother using drugs that are not for sleep?
It doesn't make sense to me. If I have a medical problem I go to the specialist doctor right? I don't go to a cardiologist if I have a headache. I don't go to the dentist if I have a gynecological problem.
It doesn't make sense what they say he did.
And if you want to be healthy without drugs, you DON'T hire a holistic doctor.
That there is where the seeds of realizing a hoax is going on are planted.
You see where I'm going with this?
If Conrad Murray is indeed a real medical professional and not just an actor,
remember that he was a holistic doctor. If I recall correctly, holistic medicine usually does NOT deal with drugs, especially life-threatening ones, in its treatment of ailments (especially the likes of insomnia).
It is a practice that deals with natural, safer alternatives to conventional (and non-conventional) drugs.
Very reasonable of Michael, then, after dealing with problems with painkillers, Demerol or whatever he needed in the past, to have someone around who will logically prevent him from falling back into old habits, right?
He seemed very concerned for his health in 2009: the visits to medical clinics, the 4-5 hour physical that he passed with flying colors, having Dr. Murray around, training with Lou Ferrigno, exercising (rehearsing for TII)...
For him to suddenly allow himself to become addicted to a drug (again?), especially a very dangerous one, doesn't fit this train of thought of 'healthyhealthyhealthy' that MJ apparently had during this time.
This is something like Jack LaLanne drinking a whole tub of frying oil from McDonald's. Not gonna happen.
So this is what people tell us happened:
Once upon a time, the very health conscious Michael Jackson who allegedly drinks beet juice and other vegetable juices every morning hires a doctor who practices holistic medicine, when all of a sudden-
*record scratch*
He dies from a lethal dose of DRUGS??
This should be your answer to anyone who claims MJ was a druggie.
Whether or not he needed some help from Demerol, or harmless over-the-counter sleep aids (which he may have taken as a majority for all we know to help him sleep -- but the media finds that too boring so they'll tell you it was some hardcore stuff MJ was doped up on) is no matter here, but HOW these MJ and drug stories are reported.
I believe the more often you hear MJ was on or addicted to drugs, the less true it is when you consider his behaviors and all the circumstances following him.
It's just rehashing of the old stories of him being ill, drugged out, etc.
And to those who made a point of how MJ was clearly drug-free and sharp during the 2005 trial when he would NEED 'relaxing' drugs the most -- bravo because that is absolutely TRUE.
Touring? Yeah, might lose some sleep, big deal.
Potential of going to jail for horrible crap you didn't do?
"Dear GOD let me sleep and dream this away," he must've been thinking...
But he visibly did not use the drugs then when we'd assume he needed them.
So ask: why would he need them before that for the purpose of getting sleep,
OR especially AFTER that, in 2009, when he won that case and put those allegations to sleep like he wanted to do in 1993, and had peace and was preparing to show the world who Michael Jackson REALLY is?....
Simple. It really is not that hard to figure out...
And bring answers you're looking for...
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During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.
But Propofol doesn't give you the sleep you need. How can they wake up refreshed? I'm confused.
I can’t answer that, but it happened. They apparently got what they needed from it and went on about doing what they needed to do without problems.
EDIT: I can understand sleep disorders and problems with falling asleep. I'm thankful I don't need anything to sleep but I know lots of people who do. I'm not saying Michael didn't have problems sleeping. The problem I have is with believing he took Propofol nightly to sleep. He would not have been able to function. And, if he took it nightly and Murray was only in his life for for a short while, who gave it to him during the months before Murray came on board?
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it makes me wonder how some of the family seems to be playing along with the thought that he did this because he needed to sleep and it is all on murray only because he left the room. so causual about. is it because they want to be able to sue later or what?
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I simply have a hard time to believe this can be possible and work as a normal sleep. How can someone take a shot of propofol which is an anesthetic an wake up able to function as after a normal sleep. After any anesthesia ( I didn't have any but I saw people after surgeries) people are completely dizzy for almost a day after or at least half a day. So this thing works? Is this being practiced by doctors on themselves? I don't know what to say but this really scared me. I can't even think about the fact that with Michael could very well then be a mistake + doctor negligence and it really happened. It can't be possible...
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Crocked Doc Won't Say If He Gave Drugs To Jax
BY GREG B. SMITH DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, February 09, 2000
An upper East Side doctor who shot himself up with morphine while treating patients said yesterday that he was pop star Michael Jackson's tour doctor in 1997.
Dr. Neil Ratner, testifying yesterday in the insurance fraud trial of high-profile infertility expert Dr. Niels Lauersen, was evasive when asked if he had administered drugs to the Gloved One.
"Would you give Michael Jackson drugs?" Lauersen's demanded attorney, Theodore Wells.
"I'm not going to discuss a patient's personal medical condition," Ratner replied.
In a telephone interview from Los Angeles, Jackson's attorney, Brian Wolf, said the singer "denies that Dr. Ratner ever prescribed any inappropriate medications or treatments."
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Wolf insisted that any medical treatment is confidential and said Ratner was correct not to disclose it.
Ratner, a 49-year-old ex-rock 'n' roll drummer and manager of Peter Frampton and Edgar Winter, has been on the stand for days, admitting he repeatedly took drugs while caring for patients during the 1980s.
In May 1989, he collapsed after shooting himself up with a paralytic agent during cosmetic surgery on the upper East Side.
Ratner, who still practices in Manhattan, pleaded guilty to insurance fraud and is cooperating with Manhattan U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White in the case against Lauersen in hopes of reducing his prison sentence.
Lauersen is accused of lying to insurers to make them pay for $2.2 million in infertility treatments the companies traditionally don't cover. Ratner was Lauersen's chief anesthesiologist for the past decade.
Ratner, who graduated from a medical school in Mexico and cut his ponytail two weeks before trial, said he traveled with Jackson as paid tour doctor during the African leg of the singer's 1997 world tour.
When Wells pressed Ratner about giving drugs to Jackson, prosecutor Christine Chung asked to discuss the matter outside the presence of the jury.
At Manhattan Federal Judge William Pauley's bench, Wells insisted that Ratner had, in fact, given Jackson unnamed drugs.
"I want to explore the implication, and I think what he is doing is illegal," Wells added.
But prosecutor Chung argued that the mention of Jackson was distracting jurors from the case at hand. Pauley warned Wells to avoid further references to the Gloved One.
During cross-examination, Ratner then repeatedly dodged Wells' questions about whether he administered drugs to anyone on the tour.
"In the course of performing your job as tour doctor, did you have occasion to administer narcotics to persons on the tour?" Wells asked.
Ratner: "No."
Wells: "Drugs?"
Ratner: "What is your definition of drugs?"
Wells fired back, "You're the anesthesiologist, you define it."
Pauley instructed the jury to ignore Wells' comment.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2000-02-09/news/18135821_1_insurance-fraud-drugs-wells
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We need pharmacists to speak outside their small twitter accounts.
People, managers and media especially, still have no clue about what
is Demerol and what is Propofol and what are they taken for.
I get impression for most out there Demerol=Propofol. Which is wrong on
so many levels. Education anyone? Special courses for media people.
Okay. I thought the initial story was Michael couldn't sleep during HIStory tour
[he hated touring, he had reasons]
and maybe that's when he first needed anaesthesiologist to travel with him.
Propofol or it's analogue was used - no idea.
Demerol has it's own story, painkillers started in 80s and were battled in around 1993.
Demerol was making come back in early 00s, and our pretty Dr.Klein was using it
on Michael in 09 as we all know now, irregular doses but really a questionable
choice for a patient with a history of painkillers addiction, be it 80s or 00s.
Propofol is not physically addictive. Michael could be psychologically dependant
at this point, with the thought of "nothing else will help me sleep!", but we do not
know if the whole Propofol story is true at all or was made up for hoax purpose.
Ok, I bored even myself at this point :oops:
i am a pharmacist and i can say that demerol (meperidine,a painkiller,a synthetic opioid) is not the same of propofol (anaesthetic).... i can't believe that a doctor could use an anaesthetic for insomnia,i've never believed it!! sleep is a state,anaesthesia is another 1 and,if u need 2 sleep,u can't be administred anaesthetic drug!!
however,if u need some informations about these drugs,i'm glad 2 write them 4 u.
LUNA
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If diprovan and propofol are the same drug, it happened! :roll: Don’t care what anyone says, I witnessed it being done. /pull hair/ This is why I don’t like to reveal things on these forums. I didn’t say I heard someone say it, what I said is I WITNESSED IT. And that’s that.
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During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.
True. I have several medical professionals in my family and they have heard of the same
thing.
-
We need pharmacists to speak outside their small twitter accounts.
People, managers and media especially, still have no clue about what
is Demerol and what is Propofol and what are they taken for.
I get impression for most out there Demerol=Propofol. Which is wrong on
so many levels. Education anyone? Special courses for media people.
Okay. I thought the initial story was Michael couldn't sleep during HIStory tour
[he hated touring, he had reasons]
and maybe that's when he first needed anaesthesiologist to travel with him.
Propofol or it's analogue was used - no idea.
Demerol has it's own story, painkillers started in 80s and were battled in around 1993.
Demerol was making come back in early 00s, and our pretty Dr.Klein was using it
on Michael in 09 as we all know now, irregular doses but really a questionable
choice for a patient with a history of painkillers addiction, be it 80s or 00s.
Propofol is not physically addictive. Michael could be psychologically dependant
at this point, with the thought of "nothing else will help me sleep!", but we do not
know if the whole Propofol story is true at all or was made up for hoax purpose.
Ok, I bored even myself at this point :oops:
i am a pharmacist and i can say that demerol (meperidine,a painkiller,a synthetic opioid) is not the same of propofol (anaesthetic).... i can't believe that a doctor could use an anaesthetic for insomnia,i've never believed it!! sleep is a state,anaesthesia is another 1 and,if u need 2 sleep,u can't be administred anaesthetic drug!!
however,if u need some informations about these drugs,i'm glad 2 write them 4 u.
LUNA
Luna thank you very much for the info :) !!!! I didn't read the book,and probably never will,but I like to share with you some pictures from Cascio book.Now I think I know who was THE WOMAN,that Frank Dileo spoke in Life Of an Icon movie,lol ;) :oops:.For sure she knows alot about LOVE,after all she was/is a Sex simbol !!! ENJOY :)!!!!
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448412387.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321565950&Signature=FA%2FV3%2F0EQ6Uf2zu8OwUM6p0wM5w%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448411841.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321566171&Signature=Cd2kTaazkh1RYlRC%2BMvPfhtZiac%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448410565.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321566798&Signature=xIa6jn%2B6JWcOZx9RYLXO2n2Gic4%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448411165.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321566508&Signature=GWIBmv5vWFNjprjwejlYMXG6ohY%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448410565.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321565861&Signature=lrNekvo7HOnt%2BhbPhJGYmiwIt1)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448410873.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321566317&Signature=e4tGVQs7mI78fkAoUlAPIHqKcNs%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448410128.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321566398&Signature=4w0rUyBbjTV4yRZ03po%2BqkE%2BILw%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448411616.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321566045&Signature=57XoA6xwPL0Kj0CSOQBmfXP7Rm4%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448412117.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321565705&Signature=zgbJchu4VdVj25AnidFe5CSRxT4%3D)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/448411366.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1321565801&Signature=jnZN393E3zQYs8ehlSEkv0jD4RA%3D)
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This video seems to indicate the Michael may have be doing Propofol as early as 1997. If you listen carefully around the 2:36 mark, it suggests that a doctor was with Michael when he woke up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ru1wO1nSk[/youtube]
Thanks Galaxy, it's been a while that I've watched this vid. I loved the part when Michael tells that he dances to keep Prince from crying. Prince started to laugh and smile when his dad dances, which is sweet.
Yes, I noticed it too about the doctor waking him up but does it really indicate Michael was having Propofol? I don't know. I don't believe Michael was addicted. Having painkillers from time to time, possible. The case of 'Hollywood' doctors who try to lure celebrities into addiction, to make them hooked on them, is a serious crime. This is also one of the 'truths' which probably will be exposed by the hoax.
"Michael "died in his endless quest to attain some inner peace."" has a doube meaning ;)
Inner peace (or peace of mind) refers to a state of being mentally and spiritually at peace, with enough knowledge and understanding to keep oneself strong in the face of discord or stress. Being "at peace" is considered by many to be healthy (homeostasis) and the opposite of being stressed or anxious. Peace of mind is generally associated with bliss, happiness and contentment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_peace
I see it like this: Michael put an end to (let die/kill) this endless quest to attain some inner peace by hoaxing his death to find this inner peace (happiness and NO stress and anxiety).
The vid Galaxy posted fits here, because Michael talks about the endless fled from the papparazi, the hiding, the stress and feeling emprisoned in his entire life :(
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If diprovan and propofol are the same drug, it happened! :roll: Don’t care what anyone says, I witnessed it being done. This is why I don’t like to reveal things on these forums. I didn’t say I heard someone say it, what I said is I WITNESSED IT. And that’s that.
Yes Diprivan is a name for Propofol, Demerol is painkiller and I'm tired of people
confusing Propofol [Diprivan] and Demerol ! :lol: It's like confusing apples/oranges.
Or even oranges/pumpkins ::P
And yes, please don't be upset, I read about medical workers using Diprivan "for a fast
knock out", or something like that. It's true. But it hardly ever was used to treat
insomnia in patients. If MJ was receiving Propofol IV, it must be some doctor who suggested
such "treatment", I guess same doctor travelled with him during HIStory tour. But I'm
just assuming :mrgreen:
If Michael hoaxed his end, I perfectly understand, and that's why we should relax about
"bam" dates - there might be no comeback once he "tasted" semi-normal life as a new
person. We have no right to demand his return or be angry at him. He and no one else on
earth owns his life. He can do whatever he wants with it.
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Frank Cascio, a former personal assistant to Jackson who eventually became his close friend and manager, writes that he first noticed Jackson taking Demerol in 1993 during his "Dangerous" tour
confused/
According to this article http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/MichaelJackson/story?id=8020392&page=1, Frank must be 30 by now and in 1993 he was 12 years old confused/. Did Frank notice that Michael took Demorol when he was 12?? He couldn't have been a personal assistant at that age back then, could he? Frank became a personal assistant, in 1999 when he was 18 according to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/16/frank-cascio-my-friend-michael_n_1098123.html?ref=michael-jackson. Maybe I'm wrong..