Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => The Death Certificate, The Autopsy Report & The Will => After June 25, 2009 => The Coroner and Autopsy Report => Topic started by: *Mo* on December 25, 2009, 05:15:35 AM
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On August 27th I had a quite extensive email correspondence with Mr. Craig Harvey. I had sent one email to all the four email addresses listed on the website of the LA County Coroners Office, though Mr. Harvey's email address is not listed there.
My question in the email was based on what Mr. Harvey said after the autopsy:
One of the reporters asked the spokesman:
Was there any controvercy about the death certificate signature by the doctor?
The answer to that question was:
No, the problem with the death certificate is that there was no doctor to sign the death certificate which then requires then that the coroner becomes involved because if there is no doctor to sign a death certificate then it falls to the coroner to do that function. So that is how we became involved in the first place. Had he been under the care of a doctor and that doctor been willing to sign the death certificate the coroner would not have become involved.
I asked:
I was highly surprised to hear "Had he been under the care of a doctor"! The media reports that UCLA staff tried to revive Michael Jackson for over an hour, and now it appears that no doctor was present during that time??!
Can you please tell me if this is indeed the case?
Also, if a doctor had been present and willing to sign the death certificate, then what would have been listed as the cause of death? If the cause of death would have been obvious, then why does it take so long for the autopsy results to come out?
Just a little over an hour after I sent my email I got a reply from Mr. Harvey. I was surprised to even receive an answer, because why would a coroner even bother to answer questions from some girl who's living on the other side of the ocean..? I was stunned to see his extensive answer, he put a lot of effort into that while all he had to say was "Sorry, I can't give you any information regarding this case".
Here's what Mr. Harvey replied:
The issue as to whether a person’s death falls under the jurisdiction of the Coroner under California law depends on the immediate/suspected cause of death. In certain cases, a private physician may sign a death certificate and the Coroner need not be involved. These deaths are always due to natural causes. In other cases, by law, only the Coroner can sign the death certificate due to the immediate or suspected cause/manner of death, e.g. gunshot wound, hanging, accident, suicide, homicide, etc.
The term “under the care of a doctor” or “had a doctor in attendance” means on its’ face that a person had been seen by a physician for a minimum specific period of time and that physician had a medical opinion as to the cause of death. It does not necessarily mean that there was a physician physically standing next to the patient when they died. In most cases, ER doctors do not sign death certificates for the many patients they pronounce dead upon arrival or shortly thereafter each year at their hospitals. Either they legally cannot sign a death certificate due to the cause of death or they simply have limited information on which to base a medical opinion.
Because no physician came forward to sign a death certificate, the Coroner had to be notified. Even if a physician had come forward to sign a death certificate, the cause of death would have to be based on documented/known medical history and due to natural causes with no external factors involved. If someone had signed a death certificate with inaccurate information, other physicians who know the patient or family members could contact the Coroner and the Coroner could take jurisdiction if the information is found to have merit.
Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
My jaw dropped when I saw that last paragraph... Since Mr. Harvey was clearly willing to answer some questions I tried my luck and sent him another one:
What would be the purpose of blacking out the signature of the deputy coroner on Michael Jackson's death certificate? Nowadays it's just a typed name and a stamp, so I don't see any reason for blacking that out.
Just 11 minutes after sending my email Mr. Harvey replied again:
I am not sure why some of the information is redacted. The death certificate is a State of California document, not a Coroner or County of Los Angeles document. They set the rules on what they deem as “private or confidential”. I can understand redacting surviving family names and addresses and social security numbers, but some of the other stuff escapes my logic capacity.
I happily emailed back and forth with my new best friend, and received a total of 9(!) email from him until he went home to have dinner. There was one other interesting answer which I will post here also. My question was:
Something else I was wondering about, and I hope you don't mind me asking you - Why did you say "I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson instead of on mister Michael Jackson? I'm sure you already realized English it not my native language...
Mr. Harvey's answer:
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.
Draw your own conclusions...
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I'm actually starting to like this guy :lol: you should email him back and tell him "thank you for letting me know for certain" :lol:
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thanks Mo for sharing this.very interesting, specialy the last part.
though, i m surprised too of the explicit way he answered to all your questions !!
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
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Very interesting. :geek:
So, Dr. Murray couldn't have signed the death certificate, because he knew Michael's "death" wasn't do to natural causes. :?:
If it was already suspect that the cause wasn't natural, why did the police wait so long to go to his house to investigate and collect evidence?
If he died at his house, I couldn't understand why they would take him to the hospital. They could take him straight to the coroner.
:?:
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thanks for sharing.
this is interesting :ugeek:
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Thanks Mo! Interesting indeed!
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:shock: :shock: the plot thickens.. :shock: :shock:
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I the UK, if someone dies at home, the police have to be informed immediately and relatives have to wait for them to arrive before the body is taken to the mortuary. ' This is what happened with my dad - he couldn't be taken away until the police had satisfied themselves as to the circumstances of his death. Maybe in the US the law is different.
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I the UK, if someone dies at home, the police have to be informed immediately and relatives have to wait for them to arrive before the body is taken to the mortuary. ' This is what happened with my dad - he couldn't be taken away until the police had satisfied themselves as to the circumstances of his death. Maybe in the US the law is different.
nope if you die at home the coronor is called in....u cant move a dead body!!! ILLEGAL
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Are you saying it is different in the US? Sorry, I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. Do the police become involved immediately, if someone dies at home in the US? Apart from calling in the coroner?
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heehee sorry yes i was agreeing!!! the paramedics would prolly call cornor if the arrive and the person is doa!!
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Thanks - in that case it is strange that the police didn't arrive earlier. In fact they didn't turn up for a couple of days. I know it is disputed that he died at home - according to Murray, he still had a pulse and died at the hospital - but we don't know this for sure.
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Maybe that's why Murray skirted, so he didn't have to sign anything....was he at the hospital? Or did he drive separately...then left as soon as they arrived?
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
:shock: Wow it's really interesting that he wrote you the truth about it :D
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Something else I was wondering about, and I hope you don't mind me asking you - Why did you say "I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson instead of on mister Michael Jackson? I'm sure you already realized English it not my native language...[/i]
Mr. Harvey's answer:
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.
I couldn't understand what exactly he wanted to say with his last answer. :oops:
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
:shock: Wow it's really interesting that he wrote you the truth about it :D
is he admitting its fake????!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: or did i misread?
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
:shock: Wow it's really interesting that he wrote you the truth about it :D
I'm like tripping right now. :shock:
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im tripping as well helllooo~proof hes alive!!!!!
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: i am not feeling any good after reading his statement about the hoax but this freaked me out! i dunno what to think now! :|
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
:shock: Wow it's really interesting that he wrote you the truth about it :D
I'm like tripping right now. :shock:
Sooo he is saying that its a fake or what???? :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
Sooo he is saying that its a fake or what???? :shock: :shock: :shock:
He is not directly stating that THIS certificate is fake but is merely point towards that direction yes.
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
Sooo he is saying that its a fake or what???? :shock: :shock: :shock:
He is not directly stating that THIS certificate is fake but is merely point towards that direction yes.
:D
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is he admitting its fake????!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: or did i misread?
Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
what does a BOGUS DEATH CERTIFICATE mean? doesn't bogus mean "fake"? :D That's what I got from it :D Or am I wrong? :oops:
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im tripping as well helllooo~proof hes alive!!!!!
So, I wasn't wrong about the BOGUS part :D HE'S ALIVE PEOPLE THE CORONER ADMITS IT HELLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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How very, VERY interesting he even responded. That alone speaks mountains. MOUNTAINS!!
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How very, VERY interesting he even responded. That alone speaks mountains. MOUNTAINS!!
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:shock: All I have to say is WOW!! Good job Mo :)
I was 10000000% sure Michael is alive but now i'm 10000000000000000% sure he is!! lol
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I find all of this very interesting, so thanks for posting it. Fascinating! But one question.
How do you know it's Craig Harvey himself answering those emails? Just because it's coming from his address, doesn't necessarily mean he's writing the emails. We can't see who's sitting at his computer. He could have an assistant or someone who does his correspondence. That doesn't negate the interesting content, but just had to ask that question.
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"Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported."
What would make the physician believe they were signing a "bogus" DC unless they know that the "deceased" is really ALIVE? :D
I was have a difficult day with this today and this alone has lifted my spirits and reaffirmed my belief in the hoax!!!!!
Thank you Mo!
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but i dont get the contradiction with his last paragraph and what he recently said about believing the hoax and us being a name he cant pronounce*scratches head* kinda weird :?
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but i dont get the contradiction with his last paragraph and what he recently said about believing the hoax and us being a name he cant pronounce*scratches head* kinda weird
Well because at first he surely believed there was just some people being curious
But now he has come to the conclusion that we're going to dig deeper and deeper and that he is in close watch :D So he try to destabilize us that's all (I hope so)
Of course he want us to believe that Mike is dead , that's his job after all
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HI GUYS!!!
I SENT CRAIG HARVEY AN EMAIL ASKING IF THEY DID ANY TEST TO PROVE MICHAELS IDENTIFY SUCH AS DNA, DENTAL.ETC...HERE IS HIS ANSWER!!! SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT I AM EXCITED!!!
The body was identified by his California driver’s license. We do not use DNA or dental records in cases unless the ID cannot be established through other means. Due to the cost of DNA, it is a last resort. We typically use dental records in cases involving fire or severe trauma or decomposition. None of those were a factor here.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
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People are more touchy about being thought silly than they are about being thought unjust.
– E.B. White, writer (1899-1985)
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DOING DA HAPPY DANCE!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:
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so what does this say to you!!
why did they use his drivers licence when his family was with him in the hospital.. who could identify him for sure!! :shock: :shock:
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You don't need identification if someone dies in hospital. If he died at home, maybe - but he didn't die at all did he? :lol:
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HI GUYS!!!
I SENT CRAIG HARVEY AN EMAIL ASKING IF THEY DID ANY TEST TO PROVE MICHAELS IDENTIFY SUCH AS DNA, DENTAL.ETC...HERE IS HIS ANSWER!!! SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT I AM EXCITED!!!
The body was identified by his California driver’s license. We do not use DNA or dental records in cases unless the ID cannot be established through other means. Due to the cost of DNA, it is a last resort. We typically use dental records in cases involving fire or severe trauma or decomposition. None of those were a factor here.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
People are more touchy about being thought silly than they are about being thought unjust.
– E.B. White, writer (1899-1985)
Hmmmmm. So it could have been ANYBODY really. I'm dancing!!!!!! I'm dancing!! Oh yeah!!!!
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so what does this say to you!!
why did they use his drivers licence when his family was with him in the hospital.. who could identify him for sure!! :shock: :shock:
.THIS IS THE BEST CLUE WE HAVE HAD IN A LONG LONG TIME !!!! :twisted:
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You don't need identification if someone dies in hospital. If he died at home, maybe - but he didn't die at all did he? :lol:
AND HIS LICENSE SAYS MICHAEL JOE JACKSON..SO HOW THE HELL THE D.C. IS JOSEPH???? :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :twisted:
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SWEEEEEEET! Mo and Doreentbird you are the best! I love that Craig Harvey actually got back to you. Yep, it is becoming clear that this is a bunch of ostrich poohy! Yeeeee hawwwww! I am kicking up my heels right now!!! It's about time someone with authority is finally speaking to confirm our beliefs.
Oh, Michael, you are the best! You are the master of mystery and magic---and have once again proven that you know how to manipulate the powers that be. I am so looking forward to your next sweeping step!
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uh dna to expensive???? its frikin michael jackson and supossedly they sent his brain away for testing,right? i mean im sure thats a shit ton more than getting dna results :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Wow!!!! All I can say is you apparently have a deceased Michael Jackson in your facility and you also have the knowledge of numerous impersonators, some of which Michael himself has used in the past, and you are going to just trust a driver's license picture which may be a few years old? Based on the number of surgeries that Michael is accused to have had he could have been changing all the time and some of the impersonators have admittedly had surgery to look more like him. Sounds to me that the expense of DNA testing shouldn't have even been an issue and should have been done ASAP. It looks to me like this fits in more with the theory of the hoax!!!!!!! :D
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Thanks - in that case it is strange that the police didn't arrive earlier. In fact they didn't turn up for a couple of days. I know it is disputed that he died at home - according to Murray, he still had a pulse and died at the hospital - but we don't know this for sure.
very unethical. I live in the U.S., my gr-mother had a stroke and died at home. Still we had to wait for the police to arrive before the coroner could remove her body.
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Wow!!!! All I can say is you apparently have a deceased Michael Jackson in your facility and you also have the knowledge of numerous impersonators, some of which Michael himself has used in the past, and you are going to just trust a driver's license picture which may be a few years old? Based on the number of surgeries that Michael is accused to have had he could have been changing all the time and some of the impersonators have admittedly had surgery to look more like him. Sounds to me that the expense of DNA testing shouldn't have even been an issue and should have been done ASAP. It looks to me like this fits in more with the theory of the hoax!!!!!!! :D
lolol..IM SITTING HERE AT MY JOB GRINNING LIKE A STUPID FOOL..MY COWORKERS THINK I GOT ... FOR LUNCH I SO HAPPY. :twisted:
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I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree, but this FEELS like the BEST indication we have gotten so far I AM TOTALLY FREAKIN OUT!!!! :o :o Lord please, let it be true.
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Wow!!!! All I can say is you apparently have a deceased Michael Jackson in your facility and you also have the knowledge of numerous impersonators, some of which Michael himself has used in the past, and you are going to just trust a driver's license picture which may be a few years old? Based on the number of surgeries that Michael is accused to have had he could have been changing all the time and some of the impersonators have admittedly had surgery to look more like him. Sounds to me that the expense of DNA testing shouldn't have even been an issue and should have been done ASAP. It looks to me like this fits in more with the theory of the hoax!!!!!!! :D
Right on. This statement explains why the person had to be pronounced dead at the hosptal rather than at home. No police dispatched and no test indicated for identification. Brilliant!
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I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree, but this FEELS like the BEST indication we have gotten so far I AM TOTALLY FREAKIN OUT!!!! :o :o Lord please, let it be true.
YEP YEP
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I remember Jermaine explaining away at why they continued t work on him even though he had stopped breasthing at home, continuing enroute to the hospital and even up until past one hour after getting to thehospital. They wanted "Katherine" to arrive and see him being worked on before making the final call. What kind of rubbish is that? No. WE KNOW THE REAL REASON, JERMAINE. You can stop frontin now :lol:
Hey Michael :mrgreen:
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I SENT THE EMAIL BELOW TO CRAIG HARVEY..I HOPE HE ANSWERS IT....
Dear Mr. Harvey,
Let me start first with thanking you for always
responding to my questions on a timely and polite
manner.
What the speculation amongst us hoax believers is this
pure and simple…
Someone indeed died on June 25th, but that was NOT the real
Michael Jackson. We believe it to be a MJ impersonator
who was gravely ill, and died in MJ's place.
There are many aspects of this situation of Michaels
"death" that honestly don’t add up. As an Accountant
I look for things to balance and cross foot.
We believe an autopsy was indeed performed as has
been reported. However, how are we to be sure
of the identity of the man it was performed on. We are to
take the word of Latoya?The person that stood against her brother when he needed
her the most?
I am speaking for myself of course, but also for many other
fans out there. I am not a nut, but a well educated
52 yr old woman. I know when things don't add up.
All we are looking for is closure one way or the other
WHO died that day. Can you provide any assistance
in making that closure possible for us without
divulging any confidential secrets?
It would be greatly appreciated, and maybe
our lives can move forward with a clear mind.
Thank again in advance for all your patience
and understanding you have shown.
Doreen Bilotto
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well done.. keeping him on his toes i hope.. just wait a reply.. lets hope it a good 1.. :)
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
This further lets me know that this is all a hoax! I work in a clinic that is in direct connection and/or affiliation with a neighboring hospital (I can see them across the street from my office) and a patient died at the hospital but they were not a patient of any of our family practice doctors. Our doctors do rounds at the hospital on a daily basis switching up every week who goes and what time. Well this patient died while one of our doctors was on call as the attending physician. Long story short they sent the death certificate here and he refused to sign because he hadn't came into the hospital yet. The patient died before he was physically even in the building. He refused to sign since he knew nothing of the patient or his medical history. Long story short the hospital director called and informed him that our state law requires the attending physician to sign the certificate no matter what. He wasn't his patient but since he was on call he had to sign.
I thought it was messed up really. It's like someone making a mess before you get there but you are held responsible although you have no idea what went on or how big of a mess was created. I also understood the doc not wanting to sign it because he didn't want to be held liable but he had no choice. The director stated that it's the law and if he didn't sign then it would be against his best interest if he didn't. Basically even if the doctor never saw you the way it works is, your medical charts are reviewed and based on your history a cause of death is determined if it's due to illness. That's the best explanation I can give being that we deal with things of this nature on a daily basis.
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Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
HOLY CANOLLI! YOU NEED TO POST THIS IN EVERY THREAD SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT...You need to sent this to Diana_jean and all the other bloggers and ESPECIALLY to mjfanforeverandaday at you tube...here is one of her links!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH3vKU0azUc&feature=channel
We gotta get this out there and can you please show us ALL the corispondance...GREAT JOB!
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@mjfanforever
you just reminded me of something.. i used to work in a care home an we had a resident or service user whatever you wanna call them... who died.. we wasn't allowed to touch them till the dr had declared them dead!!
my point is they was not there to witness the death but they had to declare the death before they could be removed from the home.. to the coroner / undertakers
therfore sign something..
i find this whole thing strange to say the least now when i think about it now!! :shock: :shock:
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@mjfanforever
you just reminded me of something.. i used to work in a care home an we had a resident or service user whatever you wanna call them... who died.. we wasn't allowed to touch them till the dr had declared them dead!!
my point is they was not there to witness the death but they had to declare the death before they could be removed from the home.. to the coroner / undertakers
therfore sign something..
i find this whole thing strange to say the least now when i think about it now!! :shock: :shock:
That is exactly correct. A doctor must be called in to declare a patient dead. It's the law as well. I am too excited and happy. I wasn't really losing hope but I was getting restless I guess waiting for something else to be revealed or what have you. This whole email correspondence is making my brain pop. I am still stuck on the not needing to do a DNA test because they had his driver's license. WT-Fooey? Like someone aboved mentioned, if his family was there that's all the proof it was him they needed. I can't believe they needed to look at his DLs to say yep Michael Jackson died!
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The paramedics were'nt supposed to have recognised him - they didn't even know who they were working on. If you believe that, you can believe they needed his DL to identify him. :mrgreen:
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am I supposed to feel like I have hypothermia and shaking all over? I'm not sure if I believe another person died as much as I believe the whole thing was faked. I really don't even believe that they did an autopsy, but, I think it was a fantastic question and either way I hope he answers it. I hope that he doesn't get an over load of emails now and not answer any more questions...
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
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Great news thanks for all of your hard work you people are so clever my brain is realy having trouble working all this out and keeping up with you many thanks a great adventure
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am I supposed to feel like I have hypothermia and shaking all over? I'm not sure if I believe another person died as much as I believe the whole thing was faked. I really don't even believe that they did an autopsy, but, I think it was a fantastic question and either way I hope he answers it. I hope that he doesn't get an over load of emails now and not answer any more questions...
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
Do you have a link of that and maybe a timestamp of where we should observe this?
Thanks.
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am I supposed to feel like I have hypothermia and shaking all over? I'm not sure if I believe another person died as much as I believe the whole thing was faked. I really don't even believe that they did an autopsy, but, I think it was a fantastic question and either way I hope he answers it. I hope that he doesn't get an over load of emails now and not answer any more questions...
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
Do you have a link of that and maybe a timestamp of where we should observe this?
Thanks.
I tried for an HOUR to find it on youtube and I couldnt find it ANYWHERE!!!! I'm going to look at the hoax video I saw it in and I will get back to you...
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Found it! Look at 1:26-1:28...Look up near his head...near the front. His left arm IS MOVING! It looks like his left forearm is up by his face and he moves it...It looks like he is brushing hair off his face scratching it or something under the sheet. YOU KNOW WHAT! I couldn't find this footage ANYWHERE on the Internet but here. All of them start with him already in the helicopter but NONE coming out the door. This man is alive under these sheets for sure!
[youtube:2q606zes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u5JYTa4vg&feature=related[/youtube:2q606zes]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
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I don't know why the imbeding is not working...here is the link to see it. Remember it happes between parts 1:26 to 1:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u5JYTa4vg&feature=related
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:o :o :o :o
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Identification & Viewing
"Contrary to popular belief, visual identification by family or friends is not usually necessary. Many methods are used to identify remains by the Coroner's Office. In most cases, photographic identification is all that is required. Occasionally, other methods such as fingerprints, tattoos, jewelry, X-rays are utilized for positive identification. We understand that family may want to view their loved one as soon as possible. It is recommended that this be done at the funeral home facility. We will work with funeral homes to insure this can be accomplished as quickly as possible."
With that said, it’s common to identify someone with their drivers licence. And family viewing is usually not necessary, this could have been used to the advantage of the hoax.
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I SENT THE EMAIL BELOW TO CRAIG HARVEY..I HOPE HE ANSWERS IT....
Dear Mr. Harvey,
Let me start first with thanking you for always
responding to my questions on a timely and polite
manner.
What the speculation amongst us hoax believers is this
pure and simple…
Someone indeed died on June 25th, but that was NOT the real
Michael Jackson. We believe it to be a MJ impersonator
who was gravely ill, and died in MJ's place.
There are many aspects of this situation of Michaels
"death" that honestly don’t add up. As an Accountant
I look for things to balance and cross foot.
We believe an autopsy was indeed performed as has
been reported. However, how are we to be sure
of the identity of the man it was performed on. We are to
take the word of Latoya?The person that stood against her brother when he needed
her the most?
I am speaking for myself of course, but also for many other
fans out there. I am not a nut, but a well educated
52 yr old woman. I know when things don't add up.
All we are looking for is closure one way or the other
WHO died that day. Can you provide any assistance
in making that closure possible for us without
divulging any confidential secrets?
It would be greatly appreciated, and maybe
our lives can move forward with a clear mind.
Thank again in advance for all your patience
and understanding you have shown.
Doreen Bilotto
Any answer yet? I am anxiously awaiting something. :?
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this is it i think!! it was posted on a similar thread last night.. :)
Hi Doreen,
I do not think that there is anything that I could say that would change anyone’s mind with respect to the physical status of Michael Jackson. If a person believes that he is alive, after everything that has transpired since that fateful date in June of 2009, then facts become irrelevant.
As I have said before, once the hold on the report is lifted (which could happen next week, next month or next December), I can speak for freely. I know what I saw, I know what I did and what my staff did, I know what we have been put through and will continue to go through. The same thing surrounds Elvis, the people that surrounded Elvis and the investigation that was done.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
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this is it i think!! it was posted on a similar thread last night.. :)
Hi Doreen,
I do not think that there is anything that I could say that would change anyone’s mind with respect to the physical status of Michael Jackson. If a person believes that he is alive, after everything that has transpired since that fateful date in June of 2009, then facts become irrelevant.
As I have said before, once the hold on the report is lifted (which could happen next week, next month or next December), I can speak for freely. I know what I saw, I know what I did and what my staff did, I know what we have been put through and will continue to go through. The same thing surrounds Elvis, the people that surrounded Elvis and the investigation that was done.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
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Hmmm, don't know what to make of this answer. I still feel like things are unanswered.
Thanks, Lisap, for the response. :D
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My question is why was this body lying on the ground? Period.
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My question is why was this body lying on the ground? Period.
What body lying on the ground, when?
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I wan't to know why people with the truth skirt around hard answers...Why can't they come out and say.."HE IS DEAD" or "HE IS NOT DEAD" Why do they have to play these word games to mess with our heads? Dave Dave does the same thing on myspace. Just say it... The only thing I can think of, is they like the attention and notoriety and/or....they don't know what to say cause the death never happened!
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Found it! Look at 1:26-1:28...Look up near his head...near the front. His left arm IS MOVING! It looks like his left forearm is up by his face and he moves it...It looks like he is brushing hair off his face scratching it or something under the sheet. YOU KNOW WHAT! I couldn't find this footage ANYWHERE on the Internet but here. All of them start with him already in the helicopter but NONE coming out the door. This man is alive under these sheets for sure!
[youtube:1rh3mcpb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u5JYTa4vg&feature=related[/youtube:1rh3mcpb]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
This is my video and actually in one my most recent ones i did an entire part on this.. check it out
as for Mr.Harvey.. I've spoken with him many times.. hes very interesting.. Honest to a fault with some thing lol..I kinda like him :)
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Found it! Look at 1:26-1:28...Look up near his head...near the front. His left arm IS MOVING! It looks like his left forearm is up by his face and he moves it...It looks like he is brushing hair off his face scratching it or something under the sheet. YOU KNOW WHAT! I couldn't find this footage ANYWHERE on the Internet but here. All of them start with him already in the helicopter but NONE coming out the door. This man is alive under these sheets for sure!
[youtube:34g8kfsg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u5JYTa4vg&feature=related[/youtube:34g8kfsg]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
This is my video and actually in one my most recent ones i did an entire part on this.. check it out
as for Mr.Harvey.. I've spoken with him many times.. hes very interesting.. Honest to a fault with some thing lol..I kinda like him :)
sorry Justlettingyouknow...I saw how you wanted people to put where they got things from, especially when they used your stuff...I was so excited I finally found it that I forgot to put that it was from you...or maybe I did later...I don't remember...I always say how your vids are awesome and tell people to watch...one of the best. I'm glad I can finally tell you! Please forgive me *taking the walk of shame* Can you let us know some of the things you spoke to Mr. Harvey about? What sort of things was honest with?
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I honestly don't think there is anything unusual about what craig harvey says. It seems as if he is just reiterating what the set of procedures are that a coroner must follow and did follow in this case. I posted the paragraph below under 'michael jackson's death certificate' originally but it has relevance here to i think. The link below actually corroborates everything harvey says even though the state is Florida.
It is also not necessarily unusual for Murray not to have signed, particularly if the cause of death is not obvious and not expected in his opinion. He is not obliged to sign the death certificate if the circumstances of death fall into the 406.11 category (see link pg 4 and 5). He does have a legal obligation to report circumstances that fall into this category. The Medical Examiner assumes jurisdiction and will sign the death certificate after investigating. Murray also cannot sign the certificate if he does not know the cause of death despite MJ being his patient. Also, by not signing the death certificate he is assuming not to have any knowledge of what killed MJ, thereby sticking to his story of 'I did not give Michael anything that should have killed him.'
http://www.miamidade.gov/medexam/librar ... lities.pdf (http://www.miamidade.gov/medexam/library/Private_MD_Responsibilities.pdf)
The link details info relevant to Florida. I am assuming the technicalities are the same or similar in California.
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Zilda quote 'One thing that has puzzled me from the beginning is that if MJ was "supposedly dead" when the paramedics arrived at the house (no life signs, and no responding to the CPR, signs of lividity and so on..) - then it should have been the coroner who transported him from the house, not the ambulance.'
Problem is Murray is a higher authority than the paramedics and he overruled them. It says in the affidavit that Murray 'assumed care from the paramedics'. If the paramedics wanted to declare him dead at the scene - which they can do - but Murray insisted they do CPR to the hospital then they will take instruction from Murray, as they did. What is slightly more intriguing is if there were clear obvious signs of death (lividity) in which resuscitation is futile, why did Dr.Cooper and her team continue the resuscitation effort at the hospital? I mean overruling a paramedic is one thing, but a team of doctors going against accepted guidelines doesn't make sense. Dr.Cooper would have assumed care from Murray once at the hospital, she would have made independent decisions as the chief ER doc.
'Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported'
They will not deliberately falsify the cause of death or make false statements on the certificate.
Concerning the paramedics not knowing the patient, there is this link http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedic ... -arrived/3 (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/3)
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i heard on Cnn that dr murray said mj had weak femoral pulse , lividity fully develops with in 6hrs
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'It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.'
Dr. Murray already lied once at the hospital. The lying was already in full progress before the paramedics got there. It's a real shame that Murray's lying is making everyone search for the truth, some of it will be found and some of it will not.
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i know it begins after 30 minutes i, wrote fully develop after 6 hrs - 12 hrs , in asphyxia it develps even earlier. and fix after 10 hrs , moving the body after that period indicates changing it from its original position .
i heard someone saying Frank Dileo told in one of his interview that doctors at ucla wanted to put mj on
ventilator ..
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This is great :) Craig Harvey is in a way admitting that there is something that's not right. I just dont know if I dare to jump around and dance yet :? But good job !
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@ tina what about his recent tweet ? it was straightforward reply i dont have the link but i m sure you will find it
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Sorry :? no I cant find it.
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@ tina read a post :::person of interest craig harvey
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This is a good link too. It covers most of the things discussed here...
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/showbiz ... nswer.html (http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/showbiz/michael_jackson/454405/Bombshell-report-leaves-Michaels-doctor-with-some-tricky-questions-to-answer.html)
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mjj_fan i was just making an addition to what you had written which elaborated a bit more. Please do not get knickers in twist 8-)
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@ quirkydian, i m not getting upset ... not at all ......why would i ....dont take me wrong , thanks for the link. Godbless
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With the love L.O.V.E.
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On August 27th I had a quite extensive email correspondence with Mr. Craig Harvey. I had sent one email to all the four email addresses listed on the website of the LA County Coroners Office, though Mr. Harvey's email address is not listed there.
My question in the email was based on what Mr. Harvey said after the autopsy:
One of the reporters asked the spokesman:
Was there any controvercy about the death certificate signature by the doctor?
The answer to that question was:
No, the problem with the death certificate is that there was no doctor to sign the death certificate which then requires then that the coroner becomes involved because if there is no doctor to sign a death certificate then it falls to the coroner to do that function. So that is how we became involved in the first place. Had he been under the care of a doctor and that doctor been willing to sign the death certificate the coroner would not have become involved.
I asked:
I was highly surprised to hear "Had he been under the care of a doctor"! The media reports that UCLA staff tried to revive Michael Jackson for over an hour, and now it appears that no doctor was present during that time??!
Can you please tell me if this is indeed the case?
Also, if a doctor had been present and willing to sign the death certificate, then what would have been listed as the cause of death? If the cause of death would have been obvious, then why does it take so long for the autopsy results to come out?
Just a little over an hour after I sent my email I got a reply from Mr. Harvey. I was surprised to even receive an answer, because why would a coroner even bother to answer questions from some girl who's living on the other side of the ocean..? I was stunned to see his extensive answer, he put a lot of effort into that while all he had to say was "Sorry, I can't give you any information regarding this case".
Here's what Mr. Harvey replied:
The issue as to whether a person’s death falls under the jurisdiction of the Coroner under California law depends on the immediate/suspected cause of death. In certain cases, a private physician may sign a death certificate and the Coroner need not be involved. These deaths are always due to natural causes. In other cases, by law, only the Coroner can sign the death certificate due to the immediate or suspected cause/manner of death, e.g. gunshot wound, hanging, accident, suicide, homicide, etc.
The term “under the care of a doctor” or “had a doctor in attendance” means on its’ face that a person had been seen by a physician for a minimum specific period of time and that physician had a medical opinion as to the cause of death. It does not necessarily mean that there was a physician physically standing next to the patient when they died. In most cases, ER doctors do not sign death certificates for the many patients they pronounce dead upon arrival or shortly thereafter each year at their hospitals. Either they legally cannot sign a death certificate due to the cause of death or they simply have limited information on which to base a medical opinion.
Because no physician came forward to sign a death certificate, the Coroner had to be notified. Even if a physician had come forward to sign a death certificate, the cause of death would have to be based on documented/known medical history and due to natural causes with no external factors involved. If someone had signed a death certificate with inaccurate information, other physicians who know the patient or family members could contact the Coroner and the Coroner could take jurisdiction if the information is found to have merit.
Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
My jaw dropped when I saw that last paragraph... Since Mr. Harvey was clearly willing to answer some questions I tried my luck and sent him another one:
What would be the purpose of blacking out the signature of the deputy coroner on Michael Jackson's death certificate? Nowadays it's just a typed name and a stamp, so I don't see any reason for blacking that out.
Just 11 minutes after sending my email Mr. Harvey replied again:
I am not sure why some of the information is redacted. The death certificate is a State of California document, not a Coroner or County of Los Angeles document. They set the rules on what they deem as “private or confidential”. I can understand redacting surviving family names and addresses and social security numbers, but some of the other stuff escapes my logic capacity.
I happily emailed back and forth with my new best friend, and received a total of 9(!) email from him until he went home to have dinner. There was one other interesting answer which I will post here also. My question was:
Something else I was wondering about, and I hope you don't mind me asking you - Why did you say "I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson instead of on mister Michael Jackson? I'm sure you already realized English it not my native language...
Mr. Harvey's answer:
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.
Draw your own conclusions...
I have emailed the Corona ,and this was his reply.
the question I asked him is below .
The body was that of Michael Jackson. And by the way, we have released nothing officially, so everything out there in the blogosphere is conjecture or otherwise unsubstantiated.
Hello,
I would just like to ask you this question and hope you will give an honest answer , the body that you or your office performed an autopsy on was suppose to be Michael Jackson , there are several discrepancy about his physical appearance , would you honestly say that you believe in your heart that , that baby was actually Michael Jackson .
I would like your honest answer .
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:( it was him then... or so he says. But the positive is , that all the things about the autopsy we have heard, is only lies.I really dont know what to think right now.
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:( it was him then... or so he says. But the positive is , that all the things about the autopsy we have heard, is only lies.I really dont know what to think right now.
what else should he answer?
Should he say " Uhhm no, it wasn't Michael Jackson it was a dummy or a double" ?
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:( it was him then... or so he says. But the positive is , that all the things about the autopsy we have heard, is only lies.I really dont know what to think right now.
what else should he answer?
Should he say " Uhhm no, it wasn't Michael Jackson it was a dummy or a double" ?
No, but I just thougt, that he was nor gonna answer that qestion....
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Craig Harvey has a Facebook page, I am his friend, but he has never posted anything about Michael. Even when people have asked him if Michael was still alive.
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What I ask myself time after time is how they use a drivers license to identify a body, specially when the drivers license has another name.
I worked for a U.S company some years ago and I had problems getting my checks paid because My ID,the passport, said my full name and my contract did not. My passport and my drivers license have the same name since it´s a legal document.
Only makes sense to me that a person called Michael Joseph Jackson died. I guess that the name Michael Joseph Jackson is not exclusive and many citizens may share the same name.
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What I ask myself time after time is how they use a drivers license to identify a body, specially when the drivers license has another name.
I worked for a U.S company some years ago and I had problems getting my checks paid because My ID,the passport, said my full name and my contract did not. My passport and my drivers license have the same name since it´s a legal document.
Only makes sense to me that a person called Michael Joseph Jackson died. I guess that the name Michael Joseph Jackson is not exclusive and many citizens may share the same name.
I diden't understand that either, but he was also identified by family and fingerprints. Well, that's what I was told by the coroners. :?
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A man who allegedly had around 50 surgeries has been identified by his driver's license???
We are talking about MJ!!!! If I were a coroner (someone who is not a fan, someone who does not see MJ every day) I would perform a DNA test in every case!!! Just to make sure this is not someone else/an impersonator.
I cannot understand this stuff with the driver's license :?
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http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/161676 ... hael.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616765/20090723/jackson_michael.jhtml)
:| orly?
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This post is specifically for Mo and Souza.
Since you have an e-mail correspondence with Craig Harvey, is it possible for you to determine his IP address? If so, is it then possible to see if that IP address has logged in to this website?
Some other questions, and I'm happy to help do some digging.
1) Is it possible that someone (maybe one of his doubles) was deathly ill and they had his legal name changed to Michael Joseph Jackson before he died? This would absolve Craig Harvey and others from legal trouble because when they say "The body was that of Michael Jackson" they are not technically lying. Is it possible to obtain legal name change documents for the state of California?
2) Is it possible that the coroner is a vet? His facebook page is littered with posts about animals. Perhaps he performed the autopsy on MJ's dog?
3) Perhaps another possibility is that MJ found someone with the same name who was ill and dying and made a deal with them or something?
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This post is specifically for Mo and Souza.
Since you have an e-mail correspondence with Craig Harvey, is it possible for you to determine his IP address? If so, is it then possible to see if that IP address has logged in to this website?
The emails that went back and forth between Mr. Harvey and me last year in August, and we started this website 3 months later. In January of this year we moved to a new server. Any traffic prior to January is not listed in our stats. It is possible to check if he (or anyone else from the coroner's office) has visited this site, but it would take some time to go through the files.
Some other questions, and I'm happy to help do some digging.
1) Is it possible that someone (maybe one of his doubles) was deathly ill and they had his legal name changed to Michael Joseph Jackson before he died? This would absolve Craig Harvey and others from legal trouble because when they say "The body was that of Michael Jackson" they are not technically lying. Is it possible to obtain legal name change documents for the state of California?
We firmly believe that someone died on June 25th and there is the possibility that it was a double who died on which an autopsy was performed.
As to obtaining legal documents (about whatsoever) - all documents pertaining to the Jackson family are sealed, so there is no possibility of obtaining copies.
2) Is it possible that the coroner is a vet? His facebook page is littered with posts about animals. Perhaps he performed the autopsy on MJ's dog?
We wrote our "Dog Autopsy" theory last year in October, and although it was immediately ridiculed to the max, it's a well researched theory. It contains quite some interesting information. In case you're interested:
http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2 ... th-part-1/ (http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/the-dogs-the-meds-the-mess-the-math-part-1/)
3) Perhaps another possibility is that MJ found someone with the same name who was ill and dying and made a deal with them or something?
Since there are 3 different names on the autopsy report it doesn't necessarily mean the person who died was also named Michael Jackson. It's possible that Mike made a deal with a terminally ill person who agreed on going through the autopsy process.
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"No, the problem with the death certificate is that there was no doctor to sign the death certificate which then requires then that the coroner becomes involved because if there is no doctor to sign a death certificate then it falls to the coroner to do that function. So that is how we became involved in the first place. Had he been under the care of a doctor and that doctor been willing to sign the death certificate the coroner would not have become involved. "
I remembered reading this several months ago but somehow when I came back to it today a new thought occurred to me...
considering that CM was MJ's personal physician, he would have technically been considered under the care of a doctor so therefore if Murray had just signed the DC from the very beginning the coroner would not have ever been involved and CM wouldn't be going through all of these legal battles. Given this, and the fact that it has been quoted that no physican is going to risk their career by signing a bogus DC, it would seem to me that CM didn't sign because he didn't want to falsify information and therefore CM and the coroner both had to be in on the hoax in order to make it the huge media scandal that it has been. JMO.
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Bump up.
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There was one other interesting answer which I will post here also. My question was:
Something else I was wondering about, and I hope you don't mind me asking you - Why did you say "I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson instead of on mister Michael Jackson? I'm sure you already realized English it not my native language...
Mr. Harvey's answer:
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.
on (preposition)
a. Used to indicate the object affected by actual, perceptible action: The spotlight fell on the actress. He knocked on the door.
b. Used to indicate the object affected by a figurative action: Have pity on them.
c. Used to indicate the object of an action directed, tending, or moving against it: an attack on the fortress.
d. Used to indicate the object of perception or thought: gazed on the vista; meditated on his actions.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/on (http://www.yourdictionary.com/on)
for (preposition)
a. Used to indicate the recipient or beneficiary of an action: prepared lunch for us.
b. On behalf of: spoke for all the members.
c. In favor of: Were they for or against the proposal?
d. In place of: a substitute for eggs.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/for (http://www.yourdictionary.com/for)
I had this same question, and I guess his answer makes sense, BUT, to me it still sounds like he was saying "concluded the autopsy "for", meaning "on behalf of" - concluded the autopsy (on someone else) on behalf of "Michael Jackson".
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I believe that the right sentence would be
"I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy [s:2ticgz4x]for[/s:2ticgz4x] of mister Michael Jackson"
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I believe that the right sentence would be
"I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy [s:3lz02e32]for[/s:3lz02e32] of mister Michael Jackson"
Here is an example of how this was worded in another L.A. Coroner case:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... death.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/coroner-to-perform-autopsy-casey-johnson-death.html)
Coroner to perform autopsy; determining Casey Johnson's cause of death could take weeks
January 5, 2010 | 10:38 am
Authorities said today it could take more than a month to make a final determination about what caused the death of Casey Johnson, heiress to the Johnson & Johnson fortune.
Casey Johnson, 30, was found dead in her Los Angeles home Monday morning, and police officials said a preliminary investigation by homicide investigators found nothing to suggest anything other than a death from natural causes.
An autopsy will be performed on Johnson today or Wednesday but an announcement on the cause of death could be deferred four to six weeks, pending the outcome of toxicology tests, said Ed Winter, a spokesman for the Los Angeles County coroner's office.
Winter said his office had received information that Johnson had a history of diabetes but added, "We are still conducting our investigation."
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On implies "of the body" and of implies "the person".
For will imply "on the order fo someone" (for me, for you...)