Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => The Death Certificate, The Autopsy Report & The Will => After June 25, 2009 => The Coroner and Autopsy Report => Topic started by: ~Souza~ on January 08, 2013, 01:17:56 AM
-
I don't know if was ever discussed, but when you look at this video it seems that the timeframe is perfect. Guy in blue shirt walks into the tunnel after the van enters, he probably gets his phone to record and when he sees the gate closing he starts to run. So how can we be sure the video is fake?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7W5Ebc4wTo[/youtube]
LA Coroner garage is not van video garage.
We've discussed that, it's buried.
Add:
this is one of the videos giving the coroner's garage (around 0:19).
There is no entry winding up and tuning to the right like in the van video. Impossible.
Check out the coroner building on Google yourself. In the first floor, there are offices and not a garage.
The coroner garage allows for car entry into a hall only where the stretchers are waiting to take the bodies to the cool storage / examination rooms.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc)
This is giving a broader view inside the garage:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE)
-
*Reminder to watch later.
-
All that debunks is that it was filmed live on scene.
It does not debunk that it was choreographed by MJ's camp.
-
@Bec, my thoughts exactly!
-
I agree with you two, I will always believe MJ was behind that video even if it wasn't filmed live that day. I think it was important or something for MJ to show himself alive post-June 25th.
-
I've always felt that the video was real. One thing is for sure... it was not recorded by a random person passing by.
-
Me too always thought that video was true.
@Andrea
I think it was important or something for MJ to show himself alive post-June 25th.
Right !!! :icon_e_wink:
-
@Bec, my thoughts exactly!
Mine too, always believed it complete with hairs on the back of my neck!
:bearhug:
-
I've always felt that the video was real. One thing is for sure... it was not recorded by a random person passing by.
Absolutely ! And what would a such recorded video serve anyways if not confusing people and bewildering them ?
I think it was proven before that the video was recorded prior to June 25th , right ?
-
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SkaIWnZB9cc[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NZSblpCCWHU[/youtube]
RTL video seems to explain everything, but looking at it more closely, arouses doubts, it seems that they had wanted to be attributed the authorship of the video.
.
Photo you did in mjhoaxlive
can see some letters on the side that does not appear in the video for the RTL or the other
(http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/16/09/46/48/a_coro10.jpg)
-
I've always felt that the video was real. One thing is for sure... it was not recorded by a random person passing by.
Absolutely ! And what would a such recorded video serve anyways if not confusing people and bewildering them ?
I think it was proven before that the video was recorded prior to June 25th , right ?
No, not proven at all, I don't even remember that being suggested.
I think the only thing that has been debunked is that it was filmed in live time as witnessed on the live feed.
-
I've always felt that the video was real. One thing is for sure... it was not recorded by a random person passing by.
I have no doubt that Michael is behind the recording of this video. :icon_e_smile:
-
[error]DEBUNKED[/error]
I don't know if was ever discussed, but when you look at this video it seems that the timeframe is perfect. Guy in blue shirt walks into the tunnel after the van enters, he probably gets his phone to record and when he sees the gate closing he starts to run. So how can we be sure the video is fake?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7W5Ebc4wTo[/youtube]
LA Coroner garage is not van video garage.
We've discussed that, it's buried.
Add:
this is one of the videos giving the coroner's garage (around 0:19).
There is no entry winding up and tuning to the right like in the van video. Impossible.
Check out the coroner building on Google yourself. In the first floor, there are offices and not a garage.
The coroner garage allows for car entry into a hall only where the stretchers are waiting to take the bodies to the cool storage / examination rooms.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc)
This is giving a broader view inside the garage:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE)
I wouldn't be so prompt in debunking this video. I have a suspicion it did happen, MJ got caught and they had to retrack what happened, or it was part of the hoax, making us debate if it is true or not. Did MJ succeed? Yes he did. Mj was good friends with the producer of RTL Germany television. RTL sponsered of MJ concert in Wembley 16 juillet 1988. Now again this is my opinion doesn't mean it correct. The most stupid evidence can be crucial in an investigation, should not be tossed away.
-
[error]DEBUNKED[/error]
I don't know if was ever discussed, but when you look at this video it seems that the timeframe is perfect. Guy in blue shirt walks into the tunnel after the van enters, he probably gets his phone to record and when he sees the gate closing he starts to run. So how can we be sure the video is fake?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7W5Ebc4wTo[/youtube]
LA Coroner garage is not van video garage.
We've discussed that, it's buried.
Add:
this is one of the videos giving the coroner's garage (around 0:19).
There is no entry winding up and tuning to the right like in the van video. Impossible.
Check out the coroner building on Google yourself. In the first floor, there are offices and not a garage.
The coroner garage allows for car entry into a hall only where the stretchers are waiting to take the bodies to the cool storage / examination rooms.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kh0lPubFBDc)
This is giving a broader view inside the garage:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqVBM7AUsSE)
I wouldn't be so prompt in debunking this video. I have a suspicion it did happen, MJ got caught and they had to retrack what happened, or it was part of the hoax, making us debate if it is true or not. Did MJ succeed? Yes he did. Mj was good friends with the producer of RTL Germany television. RTL sponsered of MJ concert in Wembley 16 juillet 1988. Now again this is my opinion doesn't mean it correct. The most stupid evidence can be crucial in an investigation, should not be tossed away.
So sorry I did not mean to add this big size.. sorry again. I don't know how to edit. :michael_jackson-1135:
-
I’ve always believed the van video to be real and one of the main, concrete occurrences that has kept my faith in Michael being alive. I saw him walk out of that van, cloaked and assisted, but visible enough to be able to set the wheels of speculation rolling. I also believe that the aid of RTL could have been solicited by MJ’s camp to take responsibility for that video and to report that it as “fake" to purposely bring more attention to it to bring those on the border between hoax versus dead over the hump. What it did for me was it increased my belief that it was planned (as I believe was the reason behind it) because I do not recall any other incident where a so called “fake” video (and there are thousands of them) surfaced and a legitimate business took responsibility for being behind it, complete with a detailed explanation, however shaky it was. It just doesn’t happen. This video for me separated the die hard hoaxers from the believers in that the latter felt insulted by the video as they do about anything hoax related But for those of us who watch and wait for signs, this was an in-your-face one and yes, I believe Michael gave us that sign early on in the hoax (possibly before the hoax was put into full effect) for our reassurance. He gave us that one sighting, and then had it removed. Glimpses and flashes knowing that once you’ve seen something, you never forget it no matter what “clean-up” (garbage again) becomes a part of the aftermath.
-
I did not say it wasn't MJs work, I only said it can't have been filmed at the coroner's garage.
-
I did not say it wasn't MJs work, I only said it can't have been filmed at the coroner's garage.
So then it shouldn't be debunked. Even if it wasn't shot in the coroner's garage, the possibility can be true. We should still talk about it and find out more info. IMO
-
I'm reposting my comment from last Nov.:
Re: TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)
« Reply #2307 on: November 03, 2012, 08:26:51 PM »
Quote from: ellyd on November 03, 2012, 10:08:26 AM:
MJonmind, the RTL video was made up.
Garage in the "making of" and "leaked video" is the same.
However the video was made up for a purpose and leaked that day for a reason.
Maybe it was one of the many sting rays we have seen to prove how gullible folks are. Even hoaxers.
Good point. Although the 'van video' seemed to be an experiment, according to this article http://pulse2.com/2009/09/02/german-tv-company-rtl-created-michael-jackson-hoax-video/, it resulted in confusion, suspicion and above all media/web attention, which could fit the hoax time line and purpose to get more beLIEvers, or simply to create curiosity and interest in the hoax. It could have been MJ, I am not sure about that, but may be all will be explained in the hoax movie..who knows
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,21319.msg427904/topicseen.html#msg427904
German company RTL purposely created a video hoax of Michael Jackson jumping out of a coroner van to show how fast misinformation and conspiracy theories can spread on the Internet. The video may have had some people believing that Michael Jackson is still alive despite his passing in late June.
The video received well over 1.75 million views since it was uploaded in the last week. RTL removed it from YouTube, but several other people added the video back. Heike Schultz, a spokesman for RTL said that the video was a hoax to show how easily people can be manipulated and that the response was “breathtaking.”
RTL admitted the hoax in a report on August 26 in their daily news show Explosiv. “We didn’t want to dishonor Michael Jackson, but we needed a strong name to get this experiment going,” stated Schultz in the AP interview.
http://pulse2.com/2009/09/02/german-tv-company-rtl-created-michael-jackson-hoax-video/
I agree with you two, I will always believe MJ was behind that video even if it wasn't filmed live that day. I think it was important or something for MJ to show himself alive post-June 25th.
I agree.
-
I agree with you two, I will always believe MJ was behind that video even if it wasn't filmed live that day.
+1
Me too always thought that video was true.
@Andrea
I think it was important or something for MJ to show himself alive post-June 25th.
Right !!! :icon_e_wink:
Agree. Even if it wasn't even MJ and only a double, still serves the same purpose. Has ppl doubting he's dead. Love it! :icon_mrgreen:
He gave us that one sighting, and then had it removed. Glimpses and flashes knowing that once you’ve seen something, you never forget it no matter what “clean-up” (garbage again) becomes a part of the aftermath.
yep, that scene is burned into my brain til my dying day! :icon_e_smile:
RTL video seems to explain everything, but looking at it more closely, arouses doubts, it seems that they had wanted to be attributed the authorship of the video.
Get what you are saying. Also I think RTL deliberately made it look like them filming so that when they retract it and claim 'experiment' people will believe them. The majority anyway. Which I believe MJ would have wanted the majority thinking he his dead this early in the piece. But set a trail for a few that end up doubting the death and claim 'hoax' The ones who didnt buy it (the retraction from RTL) turn into hoaxers. :icon_mrgreen:
EDIT: That's providing they weren't already a hoaxer. :icon_e_wink:
As mentioned earlier, some people are more visual than others (I often fall into this category, when I'm not thinking am am just swallowing) and didn't pick up on the clues that it was a hoax early on. They were believing it (death) just because "they read it in a magazine or see it on TV screen" So he gave the ones who operate like that, something visual, their language, in case they hadn't picked up on the discrepancies that pointed to a hoax. Once seen, the seed of doubt about the death / funeral you saw on TV is sewn!
Brilliant! :th_bravo:
-
Is that Michael getting out of the coroner van? - No
Is Michael behind this? - Yes
Planting the first seeds of the hoax with a "hoax" video is so cleaver. It poked people to dig the hoax hole more.
-
Is that Michael getting out of the coroner van? - No
Is Michael behind this? - Yes
Planting the first seeds of the hoax with a "hoax" video is so cleaver. It poked people to dig the hoax hole more.
We don't know if it's MJ or not coming out of the van, we cannot speculate. I am certain MJ is behind it 1000%
-
Is that Michael getting out of the coroner van? - No
Is Michael behind this? - Yes
Planting the first seeds of the hoax with a "hoax" video is so cleaver. It poked people to dig the hoax hole more.
We don't know if it's MJ or not coming out of the van, we cannot speculate. I am certain MJ is behind it 1000%
We have been speculating about the hoax for the past 3 1/2 years, so I think we can speculate about this issue too. In my humble opinion MJ didn't need to risk himself by being in that van and getting out of it. But who knows. It could be him too.
-
Well, this video could have been done another day
-
Is that Michael getting out of the coroner van? - No
Is Michael behind this? - Yes
Planting the first seeds of the hoax with a "hoax" video is so cleaver. It poked people to dig the hoax hole more.
We don't know if it's MJ or not coming out of the van, we cannot speculate. I am certain MJ is behind it 1000%
We have been speculating about the hoax for the past 3 1/2 years, so I think we can speculate about this issue too. In my humble opinion MJ didn't need to risk himself by being in that van and getting out of it. But who knows. It could be him too.
You know what it can be anyone, but Mj is behind probably filming it. He is the director of this mini movie. lol :LolLolLolLol:
-
Well, this video could have been done another day
Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.
How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.
I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.
Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.
I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.
Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.
-
Well, this video could have been done another day
Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.
How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.
I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.
Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.
I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.
Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.
Exactly bec. We were shown a glimpse of truth with that video. And excellent point about the lack of reaction from the Jacksons.
-
Well, this video could have been done another day
Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.
How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.
I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.
Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.
I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.
Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.
Exactly bec. We were shown a glimpse of truth with that video. And excellent point about the lack of reaction from the Jacksons.
Yes, never thought about that - really good point :smiley_abuv:
-
yes, they are very selective in what 'outrages' them aren't they, :icon_lol:
-
They are indeed :icon_e_biggrin:
-
Bec
Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.
I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.
Yep! :Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile
Reminds me of the blue-shirt guy in the crack showing in the gate at Carolwood, who we initially thought could be MJ, but TS took us through to realizing it was some other 'random' guy wandering in through the gate. Then there was the 'random' medical person that looked like MJ, carrying the stretcher into UCLA, that TS debunked also. My point is that, I’m sure those are well-placed people, and hours of footage were captured, but only select minutes were submitted for public viewing, and at UCLA only a few sequential pics. I can just picture MJ sifting through all the footage and deciding which ones are perfect. Like he said on the MTV interview, “I’m not always happy with certain cuts or angles…It’s got to be just right.”
-
yes, they are very selective in what 'outrages' them aren't they, :icon_lol:
@ hopi They are indeed
Agree with you !!! :icon_razz:
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive.. why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive.. why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.
Uhmmmmm, and you are here because?
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind. Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive.. why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.
Uhmmmmm, and you are here because?
looking for hope simply because I love Michael and want him be alive. I am curious to find here solid argument and fact that there is a hoax. I don't mind his death be hoax and would be plausible if "investigators" here could find and prove undeniably that MJ staged his death.
-
The 'investigators' here don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's up to each individual to seek their truth.
Sorry that I put my two cents in when your conversation is with Souza, but I couldn't help but say something. I'm not sure if you realise so benefit of the doubt that you didn't, but that statement you made is insulting.
Meanwhile, this place isn't founded on hope it is founded on obvious observations that there was a death hoax on 25.06.09.
If you can't see it, it means you're not looking because with respect the signs are everywhere.
All the best with your research :smiley-vault-misc-150:
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive.. why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.
The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.
Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.
In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.
He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)
http://youtu.be/OgWTi6ipK0M
I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak....
And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:
I think the helicopter was a "diversion".
As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".
I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...
It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO :icon_neutral:
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind. Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.
Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well. I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then? One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait? If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's. The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy. This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]
Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply. Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see. Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that. Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well. The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day. OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy. So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too. Just thinking out loud.
-
Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well. I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then? One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait? If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's. The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy. This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]
Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply. Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see. Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that. Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well. The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day. OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy. So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too. Just thinking out loud.
It would explain a lot in one lump sum.... The helicopter crew would know it was a decoy, and so would the coroner.
As far as the dummy or live MJ....I tend to think "dummy" only because many photographs show Michael had "dummys/mannequins" everywhere.
...but the flip side of that is Lou Ferrigno's interview statement about "Michael riding in ambulances".... It could go either way I suppose. :icon_e_confused:
-
The 'investigators' here don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's up to each individual to seek their truth.
Sorry that I put my two cents in when your conversation is with Souza, but I couldn't help but say something. I'm not sure if you realise so benefit of the doubt that you didn't, but that statement you made is insulting.
Meanwhile, this place isn't founded on hope it is founded on obvious observations that there was a death hoax on 25.06.09.
If you can't see it, it means you're not looking because with respect the signs are everywhere.
All the best with your research :smiley-vault-misc-150:
And also i would add that the list of strange things is very large
-
Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well. I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then? One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait? If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's. The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy. This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]
Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply. Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see. Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that. Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well. The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day. OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy. So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too. Just thinking out loud.
It would explain a lot in one lump sum.... The helicopter crew would know it was a decoy, and so would the coroner.
As far as the dummy or live MJ....I tend to think "dummy" only because many photographs show Michael had "dummys/mannequins" everywhere.
...but the flip side of that is Lou Ferrigno's interview statement about "Michael riding in ambulances".... It could go either way I suppose. :icon_e_confused:
Could be a dummy with live MJ. In disguise. Is there to make sure everything goes exactly as planned and doesn't have to worry anyone will recognize him. Anybody who really sees the dummy is in on it, based on their actions. The ambulance photo is explained more easily this way than the exercise we took with TS, although that was certainly a valuable learning experience. There is a sleight-of-hand while at the hospital and the coroner van we see from the helicopter drop off is a media decoy, sensible explanation to those on scene, including heli staff. MJ himself leaves the hospital via an on-ground van (or possible 2nd helicopter), to drive to the garage where we see the person jumping out of the back. That would be MJ minus a jacket (or whatever his disguise outfit was), we don't see his face in the video so it could very well still be the appearance of somebody else. The footage we see is the day's deeds done and he's making his escape, filmed by someone planted there. Ideally.
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive.. why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.
The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.
Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.
In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.
He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)
http://youtu.be/OgWTi6ipK0M
I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak....
And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:
I think the helicopter was a "diversion".
As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".
I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...
It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO :icon_neutral:
I am more than sure that Michael had been giving us clues of what it was gonna be his upcoming hoax throughout his interviews during all these past years, if we listen carefully to them we might find many cryptic messages that now a days would have sense when it didn't have in that very moment, so yes Snoopy71 I totally agree with you.
-
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.
You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind. Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.
Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well. I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then? One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait? If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's. The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy. This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]
Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply. Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see. Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that. Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well. The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day. OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy. So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too. Just thinking out loud.
I would only understand this theory if the DWD theory or MJ live on the stretcher theory were true, I mean for what the media needed a decoy or bait? to mislead the media while the stretcher was heading to UCLA and wanted to go unnoticed?or am I not making sense here?.
-
The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations. If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area. The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario. Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.
-
The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.
Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.
In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.
He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)
http://youtu.be/OgWTi6ipK0M
I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak....
And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:
I think the helicopter was a "diversion".
As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".
I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...
It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO :icon_neutral:
I am more than sure that Michael had been giving us clues of what it was gonna be his upcoming hoax throughout his interviews during all these past years, if we listen carefully to them we might find many cryptic messages that now a days would have sense when it didn't have in that very moment, so yes Snoopy71 I totally agree with you.
Thanks Sweetsunset. I think we need a new approach with some of this research. :icon_e_confused:
Michael manipulated the media....this we know...through interviews, his music videos, his albums etc... To me he's our biggest source of reliable information.
Example....TII "Four years to get it right"...he says this and clearly we know he's not speaking about the concert tour.
....in the Bashir interviews he says he "never wants to die...never be buried", he makes mention of the "gold sarcophagus" he bought (think gold casket/memorial). Items he bought for "another home" etc...
I'd be curious to know if there is a thread for "picking apart" the MJ interviews...there are tons out there. Might be something worth digging into. :compute:
-
Well, this video could have been done another day
Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.
How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.
I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.
Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.
I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.
Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.
Exactly bec. We were shown a glimpse of truth with that video. And excellent point about the lack of reaction from the Jacksons.
The family never said anything of RTL or TMZ, i believe that once Jermaine and Janet said they were going to sue TMZ... :-*
-
The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations. If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area. The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario. Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.
Remember we discussed quite a bit about the team getting out of the coroners van again, after they put in the body and closed all the doors. It almost looks like the first guy takes something off or puts something on the license plate at 4:54. We had talked about a slight variation between 2 plates, a number and trim or something.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiU90NLcvIE[/youtube]
And there's something about MJ's jackets that are hoaxy special. I made the discovery that the bloody shirt in the closet had part of the exact same jacket that MJ wore when he was disguised as Uncle Willie. In the store of mirrors MJ has on a green jacket and people think there's 2 MJ's but it's an illusion IMO, and oddly Arnie K wanted his expensive greet jacket back. :icon_lol:
So here he is with a long white jacket, strange. I can find pics of him wearing a short or regular white jacket, or white over shirt, but no super long jacket like this. And doesn't MJ look a bit short here? I think it's someone else.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/mjcoronerv.jpg)
-
The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations. If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area. The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario. Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.
Remember we discussed quite a bit about the team getting out of the coroners van again, after they put in the body and closed all the doors. It almost looks like the first guy takes something off or puts something on the license plate at 4:54. We had talked about a slight variation between 2 plates, a number and trim or something.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiU90NLcvIE[/youtube]
And there's something about MJ's jackets that are hoaxy special. I made the discovery that the bloody shirt in the closet had part of the exact same jacket that MJ wore when he was disguised as Uncle Willie. In the store of mirrors MJ has on a green jacket and people think there's 2 MJ's but it's an illusion IMO, and oddly Arnie K wanted his expensive greet jacket back. :icon_lol:
So here he is with a long white jacket, strange. I can find pics of him wearing a short or regular white jacket, or white over shirt, but no super long jacket like this. And doesn't MJ look a bit short here? I think it's someone else.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/mjcoronerv.jpg)
This spectacle, and not there was a helicopter flying over Carolwood that day :animal0017:
-
I can't help but think this coroner van stuff is one big shell game. The way the van drives off from the helicopter, drives around the bushes, under the over-hang of trees, loops back.....it's like it was set up for another van to come in slyly and take the place of the original......like a shell game of sorts.......which van is he now? Now we see him, now we don't....enough to make the head spin for sure.
The most suspect point is when the van goes under the trees and is out of sight for a moment......was there another van that emerged those few seconds later, perfectly timed. Or just before it enters the garage? Where was it the helicopter landed? It wasn't at the coroner's office, I thought I heard "UC" or something, then it drove to the coroner...I'll have to go back and re-watch it all......lol, again.
Have a great day....
Blessings
-
You should watch this youtube video, it has to do with the coroner van and helicopter. Amazing video please watch What DID happen on June 25th? Additional video about the helicopterflight!: http://youtu.be/0TbsRWZpVX4
-
You should watch this youtube video, it has to do with the coroner van and helicopter. Amazing video please watch What DID happen on June 25th? Additional video about the helicopterflight!: http://youtu.be/0TbsRWZpVX4
Amazing? I don't know. I watched it on our german Hoax Thread today and it didn't give me a good feeling at all... :icon_e_sad:
For me, it clears up many little things that looked strange and "pro Hoax". Or did I get it totally wrong? I mean, LunaJo always goes very deep in her/his videos and especially in this case I thought "Why haven't I looked closer to this? Why did my eyes don't see what the pics can also be looked at or interpreted? Or... didn't I just want to see it? :icon_e_confused:
-
You should watch this youtube video, it has to do with the coroner van and helicopter. Amazing video please watch What DID happen on June 25th? Additional video about the helicopterflight!: http://youtu.be/0TbsRWZpVX4
Amazing? I don't know. I watched it on our german Hoax Thread today and it didn't give me a good feeling at all... :icon_e_sad:
For me, it clears up many little things that looked strange and "pro Hoax". Or did I get it totally wrong? I mean, LunaJo always goes very deep in her/his videos and especially in this case I thought "Why haven't I looked closer to this? Why did my eyes don't see what the pics can also be looked at or interpreted? Or... didn't I just want to see it? :icon_e_confused:
I agree with you. I feel She is trying to let us know that what we think we saw is not what we saw. One thing puzzles me why 2 helicopter? Where did the other one go? Can it be the dead body went to the coroner and Mj went to the other helicopter? That for me is very strange. I follow Luna on twitter I asked her this question, hopefully she can let me know more details. I love her videos she is amazing. at least she is giving us the truth.
-
:WTF: So a body that has been cold, dead and stiff 36 hours before is now old ever cold but pliable again? I never heard that before. :omg:
-
You should watch this youtube video, it has to do with the coroner van and helicopter. Amazing video please watch What DID happen on June 25th? Additional video about the helicopterflight!: http://youtu.be/0TbsRWZpVX4
I never thought that the man was Ed Winter, he was in the key sites that day.
-
you know , from very early i eagerly awaited luna's next video because she seems to have a lot of good info , but after a while i have started to wonder(and forgive me for putting it this way but:) WHAT THE HELL IS HER POINT ?! :Pulling_hair: she seems to walk the in some gray area and i just don't see how you can go on and on and not draw some kind of conclusion. video after video .
sorry just had to get it out :icon_lol: :-[
-
I read Luna replying to someone asking her this in that last videos comments section and she states she is trying to determine for herself if MJ was murdered or if he escaped. So it seems she is yet undecided.
-
I read Luna replying to someone asking her this in that last videos comments section and she states she is trying to determine for herself if MJ was murdered or if he escaped. So it seems she is yet undecided.
Yes, I noticed her hoax within a hoax comment too and also felt she was uncertain in her belief.
-
You should watch this youtube video, it has to do with the coroner van and helicopter. Amazing video please watch What DID happen on June 25th? Additional video about the helicopterflight!: http://youtu.be/0TbsRWZpVX4
Amazing? I don't know. I watched it on our german Hoax Thread today and it didn't give me a good feeling at all... :icon_e_sad:
For me, it clears up many little things that looked strange and "pro Hoax". Or did I get it totally wrong? I mean, LunaJo always goes very deep in her/his videos and especially in this case I thought "Why haven't I looked closer to this? Why did my eyes don't see what the pics can also be looked at or interpreted? Or... didn't I just want to see it? :icon_e_confused:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The video didn't give me a good feeling either because it seemed to answer some of the doubts that I've had. Yet, how does one explain all of the other oddities? The trash cans on the wrong day, the animals in the courtroom, DaveDave on LKL, the ambulance photo? There is still so much that hasn't been answered so I will hold out hope. I cannot believe that Michael allowed himself to be put out by propofol.
Blessings
-
But why can't that be the DWD body (he may not be 'fake informer' about everything)? Nothing saying it is MJ's.
-
You should watch this youtube video, it has to do with the coroner van and helicopter. Amazing video please watch What DID happen on June 25th? Additional video about the helicopterflight!: http://youtu.be/0TbsRWZpVX4
Amazing? I don't know. I watched it on our german Hoax Thread today and it didn't give me a good feeling at all... :icon_e_sad:
For me, it clears up many little things that looked strange and "pro Hoax". Or did I get it totally wrong? I mean, LunaJo always goes very deep in her/his videos and especially in this case I thought "Why haven't I looked closer to this? Why did my eyes don't see what the pics can also be looked at or interpreted? Or... didn't I just want to see it? :icon_e_confused:
Luna's videos are so relevant and great , but sometimes I can not really decipher what she tries to convey . It seems -as many said before - that she , herself , isn't so sure about her theory , and it sounds as if she's trying to debunk the corpse theory . Yet , I now believe that the guy is Ed Winter since the presence of Thome Thome in a such seen is so irrelevant to the hoax .
-
I read Luna replying to someone asking her this in that last videos comments section and she states she is trying to determine for herself if MJ was murdered or if he escaped. So it seems she is yet undecided.
Hey, and for me that is totally ok, really. Because the last thing I want is to be blinded by the lights of wishing something and close my eyes for the truth. :icon_exclaim:
She definitely has my respect for her detailed researches and I think this can only help. But yes, in this case her research just hurts a little bit my (sometimes) desperate hoax-heart... :icon_e_wink:
And yes, there are still a lot of other little pieces to this puzzle and "coincidents" left. I just hope that I or we haven't been blind for the truth and only see what we want to see... :suspect:
Sorry, I think I'm just in a sentimental and weak mood... because after all, I still got that feeling deep in my heart, that is positiv and that the truth will be prevailed soon.
-
It is normal Ed Winter was the June 25 in the house and then at the hospital? :icon_question:
-
I read Luna replying to someone asking her this in that last videos comments section and she states she is trying to determine for herself if MJ was murdered or if he escaped. So it seems she is yet undecided.
[size=18pt]You are absolutely right, lots of people think she is becoming a non believer, but then again, her video are instructive> Maybe by focusing on these information we can find out more[/size].
-
I read Luna replying to someone asking her this in that last videos comments section and she states she is trying to determine for herself if MJ was murdered or if he escaped. So it seems she is yet undecided.
[size=18pt]You are absolutely right, lots of people think she is becoming a non believer, but then again, her video are instructive> Maybe by focusing on these information we can find out more[/size].
Yes I agree. I love her videos. So I will continue to watch them because of their indepth analysis.
@Quenchmydesire.....I am okay with that also.....except I don't even consider that He passed.
-
LunaJo has never said that she is a believer, she just want to find out what the cause of the ,,death ,, of MJ is not correct.
I like her videos too, they are very informative, but sometimes I do wonder, how she comes to this information and adresses.
-
k i am a bit puzzled. the helicoptor with the body left the hospital. they brought the body directly out of the building loaded it and it left. then they flew to the coronors office building, landed and put the body in a van. why were they not able to go straight into a building with it? was it that much of a rarity that there was no landing area at that building? lets say there is a bad accident and a person is taking by care flight to a hospital but dies before they can get there. do they have to land at the hospital anyway or can they go on to the coronors? does it matter? i don't know but this seems kind of mayberrish for the location.
-
Why did they need a helicopter anyway if the patient was already deceased :icon_e_confused: Wasn’t like time was of any essence at that point, not even for the family. Seems if a helicopter would have been used, it would have been upon leaving the home & heading to the hospital; not leaving the hospital heading to the morgue. That’s why that video seems all the more suspicious. Had to have that step in there for it to work.
-
The helicopter added the element of drama, a visual and a surrealness to what was happening. It also created a massive distraction if MJ was at the hospital and had to leave unnoticed.
-
Exactly Andrea, a needed distraction.
-
Exactly Andrea, a needed distraction.
It has to be just for a distraction because as you well said on the above post if the body was already cold why should they need that helicopter to transport Michael's body? they should use it to pick him up from Carolwood to arrive quickly to UCLA and be able to revive him, so hesoutta good catch.
-
Yes, the magician's slight of hand.
LaToya said, "It's so sad. But you have to remember that it's like a magic trick. We're all watching this, when everything’s happening over here. It's like a conspiracy. This is conspiracy. This is Murray. You'll find out."
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENozmqnObZQ[/youtube]
The helicopter added the element of drama, a visual and a surrealness to what was happening. It also created a massive distraction if MJ was at the hospital and had to leave unnoticed.
Like this? :icon_lol:
(http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab235/Christabelle777/Bodyguards%206-25-09/Coatlength2.jpg)
-
LaToya said, "It's so sad. But you have to remember that it's like a magic trick. We're all watching this, when everything’s happening over here. It's like a conspiracy. This is conspiracy. This is Murray. You'll find out."
I have been meaning to bring this up for a while now, it's just been bugging me, when LaToya says "You'll find out." Jermaine has said the same thing in his interviews, so has Rebbie, they have said "we know what it is, but we can't say yet and you'll find out."
I wonder when that's going to be...
Something stinks big time...
-
The helicopter added the element of drama, a visual and a surrealness to what was happening. It also created a massive distraction if MJ was at the hospital and had to leave unnoticed.
Totally agree :icon_e_wink:
-
i think the reason given for the helecoptor was that it would be such a mess trying to get him out at ground level. well this is hollywood, wouldn't it be a mess at other times to try and get a celebraty body out? so again if we have the helicoptor why can't they go straight into the building?
-
But if he was “dead” as alleged, there was no urgency to move the body so that part could have been done after hours or on a completely different day. The public did not necessarily NEED to see the body being transported unless of course there was a reason they WANTED the public to witness it. The helicopter just added a layer to the drama and as we have concluded, quite purposefully. Don’t you think?
-
humm guess it could have even been a diversion. idk :icon_question: