Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => June 25, 2009 => Carolwood Drive, Events & Statements on/About June 25 => Topic started by: mjboogie on December 28, 2009, 11:25:42 AM
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I am sorry that I have to reopen this particular topic. But was there an exact time of death established for MJ? I mean how long was he deceased. I know they declared him dead at UCLA right? The only reason I am asking this is because of conflicting stories about how long MJ had already been dead before Murray supposedly found him? People like Latoya that keep saying that he had died around 9 or 9:30 that morning. Ok but...how would she know this ... she was not there. What was the condition of his body when he was brought in because if he had been as long as some are speculating then did he die overnight u know like at 3 or 4 that morning? I don't know what to think anymore. Paramedics claimed he was already dead when they arrived? How do we know any interviews with paradmedics who were there that day? The timeline is soooo confusing!!! :cry:
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I am sorry that I have to reopen this particular topic. But was there an exact time of death established for MJ? I mean how long was he deceased. I know they declared him dead at UCLA right? The only reason I am asking this is because of conflicting stories about how long MJ had already been dead before Murray supposedly found him? People like Latoya that keep saying that he had died around 9 or 9:30 that morning. Ok but...how would she know this ... she was not there. What was the condition of his body when he was brought in because if he had been as long as some are speculating then did he die overnight u know like at 3 or 4 that morning? I don't know what to think anymore. Paramedics claimed he was already dead when they arrived? How do we know any interviews with paradmedics who were there that day? The timeline is soooo confusing!!! :cry:
Some people said that he was already dead when he had been "rushed" to the hospital and the official time of death is 2:26pm, when Jermaine made the statement
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Well... the official time of death is 2:26pm
According to some... he was still in rehearsals at 12:00 that day.
Others claim he died around 11:30..
and then theres LaToya....
...any progress on this ??
:?
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according to the death certificate , they don't even know WHICH DAY HE DIED ON...
Look at it , the box where you should put the "DATE of last seen alive" is'nt even filled in.
Thanks to bad_girl for pointing this out :idea:
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Randy Phillips stated in an interview that MJ was on life support at the hospital and the staff were waiting for katherine to arrive for them to turn it off.. he said that the hospital staff told him he had no brain function. But if he was on life support he must had had a heart beat at this point.
[youtube:349f4uzz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKcVI3lXgQ0[/youtube:349f4uzz]
Randy says he was at the hospital with Frank Dilelio and they were working on MJ at the hospital and they had him on life support he has no brain function but his HEART WAS BEATING.
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I was thinking about his time of death a few days ago... Something isn't right.
If he died at 2.26pm, the time in the Netherlands was 11.26pm. But at that time, the first rumours came on tv here. So I switched to CNN, and a couple of hours (?) later CNN stated his death (although they were talking about a statement from TMZ all the time)
So they confirmed his death hours later than he had really died? :?
It's driving me crazy:
Was he a DOA? Did he die in hospital after they worked on him? Or did he die at home?
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I sent an email to Ed Winter about that exact question, but didn't get a reply, yet.
If there's no answer in the first week of January, I will email again or call.
If he will answer, that he was dead for hours, he'd bring a lot of people in some serious trouble, wouldn't he?
I wrote:
"Dear Mr Winter,
as there are so many different confusing reports on Michael Jackson's
death, I want to ask you, if you can provide a time of death.
First it was said, that he had a faint pulse, when paramedics arrived,
but later reports said, he was already dead for hours.
I'd be very thankful, if you could clear that up for me.
Best regards,
"
Oh, and I read somewhere, that they couldn't point out the time of death, because it was more than 40°C or something in Michael's bedroom and the body was warm, but I can'T remember which conflicting story this part belongs to... :roll:
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Has anyone got any links to these claims that MJ was dead when paramedics arrived? Or DOA?
Who is the source for these claims?
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Has anyone got any links to these claims that MJ was dead when paramedics arrived? Or DOA?
Who is the source for these claims?
Dead on arrival (from a "reliable" source"):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/06/26/2609545.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/06/26/2609545.htm)
Dead when paramedics arrived (only tabloids, none of the big media reported that):
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/ ... -propofol/ (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-dead-when-paramedics-arrived-secret-drug-stash-found-conrad-murray-propofol/)
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according to the death certificate , they don't even know WHICH DAY HE DIED ON...
Look at it , the box where you should put the "DATE of last seen alive" is'nt even filled in.
Thanks to bad_girl for pointing this out :idea:
thx to mjhunny for actually posting the picture, because i didn't know how to re-size it, but this information seems to have been considered "worthless" by certain people L.O.V.E
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according to the death certificate , they don't even know WHICH DAY HE DIED ON...
Look at it , the box where you should put the "DATE of last seen alive" is'nt even filled in.
Thanks to bad_girl for pointing this out :idea:
thx to mjhunny for actually posting the picture, because i didn't know how to re-size it, but this information seems to have been considered "worthless" by certain people L.O.V.E
Huh?
What's wrong, bad_girl?
Where did she post a pic - can't see it.
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the death was called, by dr. richelle cooper, at 2:26pm.. jermaine's press conference was a little later..I'm not sure. I really don't remember..
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Has anyone got any links to these claims that MJ was dead when paramedics arrived? Or DOA?
Who is the source for these claims?
Dead on arrival (from a "reliable" source"):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/06/26/2609545.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/06/26/2609545.htm)
Dead when paramedics arrived (only tabloids, none of the big media reported that):
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/ ... -propofol/ (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-dead-when-paramedics-arrived-secret-drug-stash-found-conrad-murray-propofol/)
The first link is quite interesting as it states: Los Angeles coroner Fred Corral told CNN that Michael Jackson was pronounced dead after arriving at the hospital in full cardiac arrest.
Now... i think Randy Phillips may be the truth holder here. It is possible MJ was brought in without a pulse but the got it back whilst at the hospital. However in a heart attack case, once the heart stops beating there is only a 3 minute window to get it beating again before the brain starts dying due to lack of oxygen.
So maybe they got it back at the hospital but by then it was too late as the brain had died so they placed him on life support until his mother arrived. Sad.. but that may be the truth?
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The doctors would not try to revive a dead person for two hours, its not standard procedure. All this conflicting and inconsistencies doesn’t make any sense, anything about this case doesn’t make any sense that is why I’m still here.
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NO I CANT BELIEVE THIS WHAT ABOUT THE DRIP THE PARAMEDICS PUT IN BEHIND HIS KNEE ,NO ONE CAN GET ANYTHING STRAIGHT CAN THEY :roll:
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The doctors would not try to revive a dead person for two hours, its not standard procedure. All this conflicting and inconsistencies doesn’t make any sense, anything about this case doesn’t make any sense that is why I’m still here.
I can speak with personal experience here as i saw my father have a heart attack in front of me and his heart stopped beating and he stopped breathing. He also effectively "died".
The paramedics who arrived at our house spent about an hour giving CPR.. shots of adrenalin, electic shocks and so on... they were trying to stabalise him. They would get his heart beat going again, only for it to stop again.. so they had to keep fighting to get it back and get it beating. This happened about 7 times before they eventually got him out.
Once at the hospital my dad was in resus for hours. And i mean hours... they were doing all sorts to him. They then put him on a resperator and in a drug induced coma for 24 hours.
He eventually did pull through.
So i can say that paramedics do work long and hard to try and bring someone back.
As i wasnt there i cannot comment on MJs case... but if he was dead and cold on arrival they wouldnt have bothered. But if he had a faint pulse.. or if they worked on him and managed to get him back.. then its possible and explains all the time delays at the house and at the hospital.
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And if my version of events i have described are true.. then that means that MJ was a fit man because his body was fighting it. His heart must have been strong for them to work on him for that long.
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The doctors would not try to revive a dead person for two hours, its not standard procedure. All this conflicting and inconsistencies doesn’t make any sense, anything about this case doesn’t make any sense that is why I’m still here.
I can speak with personal experience here as i saw my father have a heart attack in front of me and his heart stopped beating and he stopped breathing. He also effectively "died".
The paramedics who arrived at our house spent about an hour giving CPR.. shots of adrenalin, electic shocks and so on... they were trying to stabalise him. They would get his heart beat going again, only for it to stop again.. so they had to keep fighting to get it back and get it beating. This happened about 7 times before they eventually got him out.
Once at the hospital my dad was in resus for hours. And i mean hours... they were doing all sorts to him. They then put him on a resperator and in a drug induced coma for 24 hours.
He eventually did pull through.
So i can say that paramedics do work long and hard to try and bring someone back.
As i wasnt there i cannot comment on MJs case... but if he was dead and cold on arrival they wouldnt have bothered. But if he had a faint pulse.. or if they worked on him and managed to get him back.. then its possible and explains all the time delays at the house and at the hospital.
I’m sorry to hear what happened to your father but I’m glad he made it.
The strange thing with this case is that with all the inconsistence and lies there lay some truth but it’s hard to distinguish the truth from the BS. As far as we know the paramedics worked on Mr. Jackson for about 45 minutes before heading to the hospital which lays only minutes away, when they arrived at MJ’s place (according to reports and statements) he was already dead which doesn’t make any sense to try to revive him, if in fact he wasn’t clinically dead which is not the same as being “completely dead”. After failing to revive him they “rode fast” to the hospital. But with the ambulance going slower than my grandmother and having a dying man in the ambulance, I don’t know what they were thinking.
Either way when finally arriving to UCLA hospital Michael had to have some sort of life signs, or else they would not revive him as you also stated.
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Yes.. the only reason they would have tried to revive him at the house or hospital is if he had any life signs.
If he was dead and cold they would not have.
I am obsessed as anyone in trying to get to the truth as it makes me feel better. All this confusion is what makes me mad. I want to know so i can be at rest in my minds.
If anything.. Michael Jackson deserves the truth to be known.
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
The problem with that is that once the heart stops beating there are only 3 minutes before the brain starts dying as the blood stops moving around the body and the brain is starved of oxygen.
I think that is why Randy Phillips account sounds authentic to me now i have had a good think about it.
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
How do you know this? Standard prosedures dont allow that as far as my understanding goes, its more plausible that the paramedic thought he was dead though he "only" was clinically dead, which is NOT the same and there is a tiny chance of a sucsessfull recovery.
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
I don't really get it.. Your brain dies completely within 10 minutes after your heart has stopped. So what kind of life do you have, if they try to revive you after a couple of hours...
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
How do you know this? Standard prosedures dont allow that as far as my understanding goes, its more plausible that the paramedic thought he was dead though he "only" was clinically dead, which is NOT the same and there is a tiny chance of a sucsessfull recovery.
Murray was the higher authority. The only thing the paramedics could do was to obey. They had no voice on this. about this new technique, I read it on an article probably before michael's death. I think it was a greek doctor who developed it.
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
The problem with that is that once the heart stops beating there are only 3 minutes before the brain starts dying as the blood stops moving around the body and the brain is starved of oxygen.
I think that is why Randy Phillips account sounds authentic to me now i have had a good think about it.
IF you do nothing about it. if you put an oxygen tube down the person's throat and do CPR , the chances of survival increase. sometimes people DO come back after hours of CPR. I think randy phillips was the one to say that they put michael on a life support until his mother arrived or something(but that would mean he was already brain dead).
maybe they were able to get hearbeats eventually, then they kept trying, because that would mean he was still "there"..
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
How do you know this? Standard prosedures dont allow that as far as my understanding goes, its more plausible that the paramedic thought he was dead though he "only" was clinically dead, which is NOT the same and there is a tiny chance of a sucsessfull recovery.
There was an article about UCLA being known to "raise the dead." We have a thread about it: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1689 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1689)
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I cannot belive what Randy Phillips says when he said Michael was on life support. I was on life support 6 years ago when I had pneumonia and my oxygen level got dangerously low. They put me in an induced coma and the machines were keeping me alive whilst they pumped very strong antibiotics into the vein in my neck. I was kept in this state for days until either improvement in my condition and my oxygen level had risen or they would have discussed with my family of switching life support off, this I learned later. My point is-if Michael was on life support do you honestly think Katherine would have given up immedietely? In fact even the Doctors wouldn't. What would be the point of putting someone on life support to be switched off soon after? This statement which Randy says cannot possibly be true.
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I cannot belive what Randy Phillips says when he said Michael was on life support. I was on life support 6 years ago when I had pneumonia and my oxygen level got dangerously low. They put me in an induced coma and the machines were keeping me alive whilst they pumped very strong antibiotics into the vein in my neck. I was kept in this state for days until either improvement in my condition and my oxygen level had risen or they would have discussed with my family of switching life support off, this I learned later. My point is-if Michael was on life support do you honestly think Katherine would have given up immedietely? In fact even the Doctors wouldn't. What would be the point of putting someone on life support to be switched off soon after? This statement which Randy says cannot possibly be true.
Im wondering if it was because they knew his brain was dead and unresponsive so they knew that even if they kept him alive his brain was irreparable, if you know what i mean?
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I cannot belive what Randy Phillips says when he said Michael was on life support. I was on life support 6 years ago when I had pneumonia and my oxygen level got dangerously low. They put me in an induced coma and the machines were keeping me alive whilst they pumped very strong antibiotics into the vein in my neck. I was kept in this state for days until either improvement in my condition and my oxygen level had risen or they would have discussed with my family of switching life support off, this I learned later. My point is-if Michael was on life support do you honestly think Katherine would have given up immedietely? In fact even the Doctors wouldn't. What would be the point of putting someone on life support to be switched off soon after? This statement which Randy says cannot possibly be true.
Im wondering if it was because they knew his brain was dead and unresponsive so they knew that even if they kept him alive his brain was irreparable, if you know what i mean?
Yes, I do know what you mean but I think it would not be ethical at all and would be out of the question to put anyone on life support who was brain dead. The ambulance crew would have definetely known how long he had been dead. I just think with all these BS statements they are all saying, Randy, the Jacksons etc it all just screams HOAX!!
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The procedure is called the lazereth project, if you read into it it is really interesting. We had a doc here in Birmingham go to the classes, the percentage of ppl that make it are amazing!
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i hate this thread...when ya keep talking about life support and cpr after he has been dead for hours it literelly turns my stomach upside down, i am starting to think he is well...dead :cry: oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh. You guys is he death...say something that will comfort me to thinking its a hoax again. the whole story line with the paremedics going to hospital and murray telling them to continue working seems...true?? Why wouldnt put him on life support they wuld go through great messures to save Michael Jackson...i mean hello its the freakin king of pop!!! :o ...this story makes me think he is really gone
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
I don't really get it.. Your brain dies completely within 10 minutes after your heart has stopped. So what kind of life do you have, if they try to revive you after a couple of hours...
There is a book that I found while in the store a few weeks back looking for MJ's Moon Walker book, and right next to his was a book called 90 mins in heaven, so I bought both books, they were both great, but 90 min is a true story about a man whom dies in a car acciedent, he was dead for 90 mins, and he comes back with no brain damage!! Heres the link:http://www.90minutesinheaven.com/ I just thought that this may just remind some that anything is possible esp when you keep your faith!!
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i hate this thread...when ya keep talking about life support and cpr after he has been dead for hours it literelly turns my stomach upside down, i am starting to think he is well...dead :cry: oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh. You guys is he death...say something that will comfort me to thinking its a hoax again. the whole story line with the paremedics going to hospital and murray telling them to continue working seems...true?? Why wouldnt put him on life support they wuld go through great messures to save Michael Jackson...i mean hello its the freakin king of pop!!! :o ...this story makes me think he is really gone
Oh, don't loose your faith! We don't know the true timeline, and not the true events! It's all speculation, but of course we have to discuss every possibility in order to find the truth. There are still far too many inconsistencies and no proof, that he's dead!
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they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
I don't really get it.. Your brain dies completely within 10 minutes after your heart has stopped. So what kind of life do you have, if they try to revive you after a couple of hours...
There is a book that I found while in the store a few weeks back looking for MJ's Moon Walker book, and right next to his was a book called 90 mins in heaven, so I bought both books, they were both great, but 90 min is a true story about a man whom dies in a car acciedent, he was dead for 90 mins, and he comes back with no brain damage!! Heres the link:http://www.90minutesinheaven.com/ I just thought that this may just remind some that anything is possible esp when you keep your faith!!
Thanks, and ofcourse there are exceptions ;)