Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: mjj_fan on January 15, 2010, 05:17:03 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1GdGMOJ ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1GdGMOJw4c&feature=related)
another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVeeix_L ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVeeix_LGPU&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Wmw2UQ ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Wmw2UQ3ac&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjq4tHIv ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjq4tHIvO4A&feature=related)
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I'm a nurse so i know how propofol works and the standard care needed when using it. So when I first heard the word "propofol" early on as a possibility of what killed MJ, alarm bells rang in my head, and I immediately thought "no way, this cannot possibly be real". When they "confirmed" propofol, I then knew it had to be a hoax.
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you know what , i accepted his death as cardiac arrest due to natural cause but the moment i heard propofol i was shocked and till date i just cant get over this bad feeling , i question myself for a person who is too much in to research and health conscious , how come he lost all sense of reasoning, there is no way he could do to his children , they were world to him the purpose of post was to let people know how drug works in Operation rooms a nd what precautionary measures should be taken .
does anyone remember i mention in my very first post how much propofol hurts and the use of cannula to keep the i.v drip running ?
:) : Godbless and keep faith
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How does it hurt? You mean it hurts while it is being administered? I thought also that it does not stay in the system long? IDK what to think anymore. I am agreeing with the idea that MJ would not do this to his kids (I mean drugs) to me he always seemed health concious and you know loving his kids. I mean he know that they did not have a mom.....I am like drugs and Mj just doesnt add up.? IDK. will we ever know the truth. How were they able to trace it if it leaves the body so quickly? But then again they did the autopsy immediatley so.......... :?
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I'm a nurse so i know how propofol works and the standard care needed when using it. So when I first heard the word "propofol" early on as a possibility of what killed MJ, alarm bells rang in my head, and I immediately thought "no way, this cannot possibly be real". When they "confirmed" propofol, I then knew it had to be a hoax.
That is good to know from a medical perspective.
Thanks for that!
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Am i wrong or was that guy not breathing at all after 16 seconds?
So how the hell did Dr Murray use it, if at all and not expect bad result? Hoax me thinks!!
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This really pisses me off if MJ were really dead!! since murray is a doctor...he should have well known that propofol makes you stop breathing!!! so why the heck would he administer it in the first place...and then just leave?!?!?!?!?!? ugh this is so frustrating how he is not even arrested!!! that IF he really is dead. and how did he even get a hold of it if he were just some heart doctor...i thought an anesthesiologist nurse would be the ONLY people allowed to administer a anesthetic? ugh MJ you better still be alive because if not I will be very dissapointed on how things were taken surrounding your death :x :x
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also yes we all know Mike had insomnia...but propofol does not help you sleep!!! you dont get any RIM sleep using that at all!!! Dr. Murray should have known that!! I even know that!!! I have insomnia so i know how frustrating it could be, but with MJ's intelligence he should have known that taking it does not actually give him any rest what so ever!!!! ok i need to breathe this topic is so sensitive to me and it hurts deeply thinking they did this to solve his insomnia when i know it would not give him rest i am shaking right now i am so raged i cant stand it :x
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They say it has a very short life in the body. I was surprised they were able to find it after so long....
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you know what , i accepted his death as cardiac arrest due to natural cause but the moment i heard propofol i was shocked and till date i just cant get over this bad feeling , i question myself for a person who is too much in to research and health conscious , how come he lost all sense of reasoning, there is no way he could do to his children , they were world for him the purpose of post was to let people know how drug works in Operation rooms a nd what precautionary measures should be taken .
do anyone of you remember i mention in my very first post how much propofol hurts and the use of cannula to keep the i.v drip running ?
:) : Godbless and keep faith
i remember.. good to see we can still look back on the things we've discussed an compare notes!! i'm still confused by it all.. cos our common sence an expertise tells us different to what were being told.. :roll:
i just wish the TRUTH WOULD PROVAIL already!!
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i agree . i also catch myself thinking and feeling the same like most of members do , here are some answers
@ mj boogie . yes it burns during its administeration thats why a i,v LIGNOCAINE is given before which itself acts as s
1, is local anasthesia ... it reduces pain
2. anti arrythmiac too , thats why when the heart shows abnormal rhythum its given immidiately to bring the rhythum back to normal
and for its anasthesia like property it was given and was later on detected in mj system
@ game player i told it before that it stays for very short time but with in the urine and blood it stays because body get rid of it through our kidneys
the drug should be given very slowly as it acts with in seconds and everyone have witness it through videos that guy breathing stops but he was monitered by doctors so they managed him right their besides the detectors keeps on detecting if the anastheologisot has given the correct dose or if it needs any alteration in terms of drug dosage
@ lisa you have a good memory must be an outstanding student :)
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I just DO NOT believe MJ took propofol to sleep. Never have and never, ever will.
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When they "confirmed" propofol, I then knew it had to be a hoax.
That is good to know from a medical perspective.
Thanks for that!
I agree, thank you loads :)
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Can someone please just give me my Michael back? I want him back.
I didnt like watching that video. That man stopped breathing immediately. It made me feel really ill just watching it.
Michael wasnt stupid, and i dont believe Dr Murray could have been so stupid either. How could anyone take Propofol for insomnia. Its the most ridiculous thing ever. Full stop. RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!
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@ dancing the dreams dont get upset that guy was fine and pratically this happens many times that how doctors revive their patients ,sometimes the moniter shows flat line and it seems the patient is gone but through defibrillator i.v drugs and Cpr the heart gets back to its normal rhythum .
for all who knew about this drug like doctors and paramedical staff either got upset or found it unreal and thats probably the reason they are here
i think you can read my first post you will feel fine and after reading that you can draw your own conclusion how this story looks fake
take care of you God bless
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@ dancing the dreams dont get upset that guy was fine and pratically this happens many times that how doctors revive their patients ,sometimes the moniter shows flat line and it seems the patient is gone but through defibrillator i.v drugs and Cpr the heart gets back to its normal rhythum .
as far as mj concern and his propofol i think you can read my first post you will feel fine and after reading that you can draw your own conclusion how this story unfits here
take care of you God bless
Thanks. Think ive just had a bad week. I just cant believe MJ took that drug. :(
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i
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i wonder, after all this whether propofol will be reclassified as a controlled substance.
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I have always thought this is so weird I dont believe it , when it was first announcedthen i am afraid i got a bit angry with Michael I thought how could he do that to his children that only lasted for a few seconds because it is so unbelievable I had never heard of anybody using this before apart from hospitals , so confused
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i wonder, after all this whether propofol will be reclassified as a controlled substance.
I think your spot on.
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You'd think that if Michael wanted this sh*t administered, he wanted to die. No way. This is all so insane.
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but the complication of this case
1. is we dont know if dr murray ever warn mj about possible complications
2, what if mj only know " :few : side effects like allergic reaction , burning ,dizziness ,temporary memory loss etc
3. what if mj knew all the aspects of propofol use but still insisted dr murray to treat his insomnia
i remember a post by a member showing a hand writting of mj with the note saying "if i take two vials i will be okay but if accident happen ...... something like that i dont remember , so i m left the the impressionon if mj knew but ...
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but the complication of this case
1. is we dont know if dr murray ever warn mj about possible complications
2, what if mj only know " :few : side effects like allergic reaction , burning ,dizziness ,temporary memory loss etc
3. what if mj knew all the aspects of propofol use but still insisted dr murray to treat his insomnia
i remember a post by a member showing a hand writting of mj with the note saying "if i take two vials i will be okay but if accident happen ...... something like that i dont remember , so has that the impressionon me as if mj knew but ...
didn't that nurse warn him about propofol!! she was on an interview where she said she'd warned him about it.. plus if he was addicted to it as they are saying then he would know about the burning and other side effects cos he'd been on it for sooo long..
nothing adds up with this.. if this is not a HOAX and its all true then Michael was a foolish man.. sorry to say it but its the truth!!
if it is a Hoax then maybe he should have looked into something a bit more convincing than a drug that isn't addictive an maybe something more portant.. or just got lost at sea!! its all crazy!!! :roll:
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@LisaP. It is IMPOSSIBLE to become addicted to Propofol. A medical impossibility. Its is not addictive.
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@LisaP. It is IMPOSSIBLE to become addicted to Propofol. A medical impossibility. Its is not addictive.
that was my point... why not use something more convincing.. that would make people believe he was addicted to it!!
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@ dancing the dreams new studies made on propofol say it has potential for addiction though it acts on receptors other then benzodiazepines in old medical books its written the mode of action is unknown .but i think they will upgrade them but if any medical book saysit doesnt .let me know
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It's an interesting information because the propofol adiction sounds unusual to me. When I first heard it I thought: "poor man, what happened to him, he became addicted to anesthetic!!!?". But how long was he addicted? If he was addicted, when he became addicted? Who provided him with the injections previously if it was not dr. CM? This propofol story doesn't make sense, hope it's all really a hoax.
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thats what i m saying from the day one i know about ketamine abuse , i know sodium thiosulphate abuse but when i heard about it w was :shock:
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@LisaP. It is IMPOSSIBLE to become addicted to Propofol. A medical impossibility. Its is not addictive.
Addiction is poorly documented but,I have come across one case (from 1992) of an anesthesiologists who was addicted to propofol. Other medical literature I have read states that addicts tend to be health care workers who have access to this substance. The euphoric effects of propofol may be one of the reasons that some chose to abuse it. I do not believe that Michael was abusing Propofol for its euphoric effects though.
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Sure, you can get psychologically addicted to it. You can get psychologically addicted to anything.
Thing is, i have heard that Murray was trying to "wean" MJ off it - which i find ridiculous. There would be no need to "wean" him off it, as there would be no physical side effects to him just stopping taking it. He wouldnt have gone through cold turkey or anything like this.
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the glove one i reckon if you are a medical student , yes it leads to euphoria but it s for a very short time , a way better than that is marijauna and other hallucinogens
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i was talking about addiction in terms of physical dependence , yeah psychological dependence can be with any thing
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if this is aint a hoax i think rabbi said is right( though i hate to mention) ""what a stupid man, how could he do it ""
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Propofol does not treat INSOMNIA it doesn not treat ANYTHING its just a drug that knocks you out before surgery...he gets no rest at all using this drug...and the doctor being a doctor should have known that!!...if MJ has taken this drug before then he should have known that he didnt get any benefit from it...if anything he should be more drowsy then anything... He should have taken Ambien or something...i know that stuff is scary and i chose to quit taking it after driving in my sleep but atleast you wont STOP breathing and just die! MJ if you took that i am so mad at you and i am so mad at Murray!! i just wanna cry even thinking this. I hate it just hate...Michael come back please please let your fans know your ok please :(. Propofol ugh just thinking he got that stuff administered in the home by Dr. Murray makes me sick it makes my mind go crazy...because my mind cant digest this idea...what a stupid idea...i see no point in giving MJ this drug...
Why go for the biggest drug out there to help sleep?... :cry: :evil: :( so many different emotions at one time
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I also hope and pray that this is a hoax because i just cannot comprehend that Michael let alone anyone would use anesthesia to "sleep". Obviously Michael must have been introduced to the drug i cannot imagine that he would seek it out himself. If this in fact turns out to be true I don't blame Michael i blame the people around him, those who stood by and encouraged this behaviour. Dr Murray was just another yes man. It's scary to think that if the price is right a Dr will inject you with just about any drug you like. Maybe Dr Murray was so star stuck that duty of care went out the window and he submitted to Michael demands just because he was who he was.
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but just think
iis someone has ever abuse that drug , like glove one said he /she read somewhere . its mode of action is so quick how is it possible to misuse it for insomnia even 4 euphoria
another thought if its a hoax hates off to mj . he chose a drug with minimum research been done on it ,and to keep our head spinning ,
and if it was a murder (God Forbidden) the person was smart enuff
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i was only able to watch one video...it made my chest drop so deep and fast...i didnt like the feeling i was almost immediately filled with anger and sadness and confusion i didnt know where to put it all.
I cant watch another video...i just cant
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@ i need you i know its hard to watc h .dealing with such situation aint easy but dont take ij it too seriously , they were just demostration you should realise it was dr sanjay in 1st video who was tryi ng to make it clear to everone that how wrong was dr murray for using it at home , its anastheologist nitemare
those who work in operation rooms know what happen inside they have idea about every possibility
i was aware of this drug before 25th june thats why i just can t trust easily as if mj use it for insomnia , almost everyone i met found it very very strange .to me it seems fake
hope after reading this yo u will get over that sad feeling ..take care of u
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members havet you noticed something is he the same dr sanjay gupta mj friend in first video or
another doctor with the name ??? in all interviews after 25th june mj friend dr sanjay wore glasses , i dont know how he would look like after takingoff those spectacles
i m confused
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I can think of only one reason why he possibly wanted a general anesthesia drug, he wanted to "knock" himself out.
If he had a lot of stress and pressure, he couldn't sleep, if he did sleep (with use of medication probably) he had horrible nightmares that he remembered when he would wake up.
U know some ppl drink themselves into "coma" just to "escape" from themselves and the world for a awhile, to close the eyes and don't dream or hear or feel anything....
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but there are alot of medications for insomnia , and stress relievers why anesthesia
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I just don't see it. Logic tells me that Michael did not use this stuff. And if he was hooked, as the media is trying to make us believe, he really would have been riddled with needle marks. As far as I can tell there is no evidence of that anywhere; just rumor. And think of the way you feel after general aneasthesia (sp?). You feel like crap, some people throw up, some people get really depressed and emotional. My daughter started crying for no reason at all, and she hated it. How can anyone function and do what he did every day, if he depended on this stuff. BS, I say.
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@mjj_fan
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... nnSTCVideo (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/michael.jackson/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is CNN's chief medical correspondent
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mjsoulmate you are rite about G.A and th e way patient feels after recovery but those side effects depend upon the type of G.A use . propofol is the perfect one ,with no hang over , if you watch 2nd video it actually explain how patient felt after administration
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thankyou mj _facts but are both the same person i mean mj had a friend dr sanjay gupta and it was his son with whome he wrote a comic
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 09,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1908709,00.html)
Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew, says that even he was taken aback by the idea that Jackson or anyone else would receive Diprivan outside of a hospital-surgery situation. "I treat musicians all the time, and this is something even I have never heard of," Pinsky told TIME. "It's hard to get my head around. I'd have an easier time believing Martians set down outside of this building." (Read "Five Media Myths Debunked by Michael Jackson's Death."
"This is just not something used in the world outside of a hospital," Pinsky continued.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... z0d5TD9TqZ (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1908709,00.html#ixzz0d5TD9TqZ)
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so true ..........sigh
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I can think of only one reason why he possibly wanted a general anesthesia drug, he wanted to "knock" himself out.
If he had a lot of stress and pressure, he couldn't sleep, if he did sleep (with use of medication probably) he had horrible nightmares that he remembered when he would wake up.
U know some ppl drink themselves into "coma" just to "escape" from themselves and the world for a awhile, to close the eyes and don't dream or hear or feel anything....
True, but even if you drink yourself to sleep you still SLEEP... its not like an aenesthetic. Know what i mean?
And why didnt MJ just drink a bottle of vodka if thats what he wanted to do. lol.
Arrgh.,.. i just dont believe MJ used Propofol for insomnia. Its doesnt rest you so i dont see the point. Why not just stay awake all night... it would have the same effect as Propofol... if anything he would feel worse on wakening from Propofol. :? Why not just stay awake until the point of exhaustion until you do sleep. Ive suffered from insomnia in the past and thats what i always do.
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thankyou mj _facts but are both the same person i mean mj had a friend dr sanjay gupta and it was his son with whome he wrote a comic
Are you sure you don't mean Dr. Chopra?
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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... cd.02.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/02/acd.02.html)
M.D. Sanjay Gupta has been on the trail of a doctor who we've learned worked for Jackson on tour in the late 1990s, an anesthesiologist himself with a checkered medical past. Sanjay what have you learned?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you. We know several things now. Sources close to Michael Jackson tell us that during the "History" tour back in '96 and '97 Jackson was actually traveling with what looked like a mini clinic, including an IV pole, drips and what looked like a rack with lights and monitors and such.
Sources who had the opportunity to see Jackson at various points during the tour say Jackson was traveling with at least two doctors and one of whom was anesthesiologist Dr. Neil Ratner.
Now, one source said he asked Ratner about all this elaborate equipment, and Ratner said he was there because Michael simply couldn't sleep. Now Ratner went on to say, according to the source, "I take him down at night" -- referring to Jackson -- "and I bring him back up in the morning." :roll:
Now, a source said Michael Jackson often appeared groggy. And when the source asked Jackson about all of this equipment, he just said he needed sleep. So, it was pretty remarkable, Anderson, to just hear that so clearly. COOPER: Well Sanjay, I mean, over the past couple of nights we've talked to each other about how dangerous powerful anesthetics can be. Do we know anything about precautions taken to protect Jackson on this tour?
GUPTA: Yes, we do. Sources say that Ratner would keep the equipment in his hotel room, which would be next to Jackson's. And he would use that for monitoring Jackson's vital signs when he was asleep, or under, as the source put it.
Now, there was a "Vanity Fair" article that said a former business associate of Jackson's said the singer had a quote, "sleep disorder," and then Ratner confirmed that to us today on the phone.
But I really want to talk to him some more, so we tracked him down, Anderson, today at the Woodstock, New York, where he now lives with his wife. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA (on camera): We've come here because your name was obviously associated with Michael Jackson. And people said that there was a question of whether or not you gave anesthesia to him while he was on tour. And we just wanted to come to the source, you, and hear and find out if that had happened.
DR. NEIL RATNER, FORMER PHYSICIAN OF MICHAEL JACKSON'S: I'm very upset. I'm distraught. Michael was a good person.
I can't talk about it right now. It's really something I don't want to talk about right now. I've lost a friend and I feel very badly about that.
GUPTA: There were two people, and I just want to allow you to respond to this. And you can or you don't have to. But I think it's important that you hear this. We have a couple of different sources have said they would see IV equipment, what sounded like probably pumps, they described as sort of an audio rack sort of looking thing in a hotel room with Michael. And they made it sound like that was your stuff. Are they wrong? I was really...
RATNER: I don't want to talk about this topic at all now. I really have nothing to say about it right now. You know? The man hasn't had a funeral, and the man hasn't been buried. It's inappropriate. I don't want to talk about it right now. And I appreciate it if we could end this now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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http://www.examiner.com/x-16521-Seattle ... news-reels (http://www.examiner.com/x-16521-Seattle-Paranormal-Examiner~y2009m7d9-Michael-Jackson-apparitions-sighted-on-media-news-reels)
pic of Dr. Neil Ratner
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i m speechless but again tour ended in months rite??? how many times and at how many veins did they puncture to administer propofol???
@ mj facts i think i mix up two persons thanks for clearing taht up for me .Godbless
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Thank you for posting the video. You could tell that the physicians seemed astounded themselves that this procedure would be used at home. It appears to complicated to be used in a home setting.
I think this is further proof that the death was staged. This does not make any sense whatsoever. Michael would have been dead a long time ago.
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In this context I remember the Arnie Klein's interview with TMZ where he said 3 interesting things:
1. Propofol was found in the guest room but the bottles were not used
2. Michael said goodbye to my employees, even to some he didn't even know
3. Murray is only the scapegoat.
Do you remember that ...? ;)
I think that all these "History" storys with the mini-clinic and other docs who put Mike to sleep do only serve one purpose: to backup the theory of drug addiction and chronical insomnia.
I cannot imagine that someone who is such a wonderful dancer & singer etc. -the world's greatest artist - would have danced this way and "function" in this way while using such dangerous drugs.
I also remember one of the journalists/patients in the first or second vid who tested propofol saying afterwards that it is very "painful" to wake up!!!
And now imagine you would do this every day :o - really hard to believe and I cannot believe this! No way.
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thats why i put these videos to let people know that how fake this story seems to me, but few members got upset i guess , thats why i m encouraging them to see live and draw conclusions , there is nothing to worry about
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Do you suppose Dr. Klein knows a lot more than he's letting on? Or perhaps, being the brilliant physician I assume he is, he knows intuitively that something is wrong about the "death"?
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the only thing that keeps on bugging me is why we heard dr murray called dr klein on 25th ???to me it seems he had used this drug on mj several times during cosmetic surgury any thoughts ???