Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: THE JACKSONOLOGIST on January 21, 2010, 04:49:35 PM

Title: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: THE JACKSONOLOGIST on January 21, 2010, 04:49:35 PM
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

Is MJ THAT smart or are we (and I include myself here) just really dense? LOL!

I know we have hoax vids, and "informers"..some of which I trust and others i totally dont, but seriously, why havent we figured out what is going on? Not just with the death, but with blonde lady, the memorial, the 911 call and where it came from, the autopsies,the funeral, the lengths of time in between each event, the lies, the weird sayings from family members etc? Should I go on? We all have our beliefs on certain things but we have no REAL proof of anything....Was MJ the blonde lady? I think so, but we dont know for sure do we?

I feel like we've been given more then enough clues and hints but yet we are at a standstill. Are we overlooking the obvious? Have we missed something completely? Do we need to start over and look at every thing with a microscope again?  


AAAAHHHHH!!!!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: virgo75 on January 21, 2010, 04:55:03 PM
I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: THE JACKSONOLOGIST on January 21, 2010, 05:03:46 PM
Quote from: "virgo75"
I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.


I agree with what you said about trying to find clues in everything. I think that we should try and break away from that..

Also, I agree with we dont know what we're looking for.
Its so frustrating !! I just wanna know that he is definately alive and that will soothe my heart...its the not knowing that drives me batty.
Id like to know WHY he did this, but if I am only allowed to find out for sure 100000% he is alive, then I will live with that.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: voiceforthesilent on January 21, 2010, 05:09:25 PM
I totally agree.  With all due respect, there are too many threads that are nice to read but have little value to finding the truth.  Also - I, for one, don't have the opportunity to call around and check stories and most of us don't live in CA where we can drive and check out details in person.  That is a downfall.  Most of us rely on the Internet and it's slowed down progress by those that are deliberately baiting us with false information.  I try whenever possible to view the original information instead of just the video or picture that was posted by someone else. That way I can see it for myself and determine whether the blogger is correct in their statement.  I think there are clues out there if we look.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Idéalo on January 21, 2010, 05:15:29 PM
contracts concerts london are they valid.
michael when he has signed this contract with AEG and in what city. I do not see on any page of the contract.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: teensy on January 21, 2010, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: "virgo75"
I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

So true. I think our view on the hoax evolves as well. We may have believed one thing at one time, but not anymore.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: neverlandprincess on January 21, 2010, 06:01:11 PM
:D  for you Jacksonolagist. We do get into alot of odd and weird trails that have like 9 percent to do with anything. If we got on one page and tried to fit things together and then it doesnt work go to another etc etc etc. Many times no one can agree so they dont try to connect dots... ;)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Boeing727 on January 21, 2010, 06:03:51 PM
I think that hes trying to defeat the NWO somehow as they are behind all the problems he sings about in They Don't Care About Us, Earth Song, Heal the World and a few others. Even Bad is a confrontation to them with the message "if you're going to come and get me then come and get me".

He made sure he was financially set before taking them on and that's why he bought rights to a large part of the Sony catalogue. Non famous people such as Alex Jones can take on the NWO day in day out but its a lot harder to do it if you are a very famous individual like MJ was. In short they do not want extremely famous individuals exposing them as there are some people who will do whatever these individuals say. If MJ was to get up on stage at the O2 there is a possibility that he would expose them in some way. Some say he knew Jane Burgermiester and he would use the Swine Flu swindle to expose them. I do not know which way he would do it but I think its plausable knowing that the NWO want to depopulate 80% of the worlds population (look it up) and were the cause of 90% of what MJ campaigned about usually via his music.

I suggest you visit theindustryexposed.com and look at the 2 michael jackson videos posted there as this goes into more detail about the NWO in relation to micheal.

Peace
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Zen on January 21, 2010, 08:34:20 PM
by THE JACKSONOLOGIST » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:49 pm
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

Is MJ THAT smart or are we (and I include myself here) just really dense? LOL!

I know we have hoax vids, and "informers"..some of which I trust and others i totally dont, but seriously, why havent we figured out what is going on? Not just with the death, but with blonde lady, the memorial, the 911 call and where it came from, the autopsies,the funeral, the lengths of time in between each event, the lies, the weird sayings from family members etc? Should I go on? We all have our beliefs on certain things but we have no REAL proof of anything....Was MJ the blonde lady? I think so, but we dont know for sure do we?

I feel like we've been given more then enough clues and hints but yet we are at a standstill. Are we overlooking the obvious? Have we missed something completely? Do we need to start over and look at every      thing with a microscope again?

The best way is what you said.  START with March 2009.   It was from this point on, that things got
very strange.   Remember Tohme's words about Michael concerning the auction of Michael's things  "Michael has had a change of heart".  Reflecting back, I don't feel like good about that statement.  
Michael's apparent break-down and not wanting to make the announcement, his being late, out-of-character
and seemingly high.  His (now-lost) statement to the fans about the number of the concert dates
being increased, talk of laser technology in regards to holograms. You know, all this leading up to the
DAY.  The DAY of what....?   We have reflect on clues and everything AFTERward, but the answer
lies in the before.
And one more thing, it gets hard when articles, videos, and blogs DISAPPEAR.  exactly WHO and
WHY do you think they are disappearing  :?:   :?:      :geek:

Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: CC on January 21, 2010, 08:44:48 PM
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1790 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1790)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: the_lost_child on January 21, 2010, 08:52:24 PM
wow, so now I see I'm not the only one with such kind of thoughts - I l.o.v.e. you guys :)
Well... He's "simply Michael Jackson" - he always does things no one has ever seen or experience before. Now, if he hoaxed his death, there must be some deeper meaning, some important purpose, which we may not see or understand. Some clues are too obvious to be ignored - they point simply, that he's alive, and maybe cause he needs to stay in his hide - he's just saying us as clearly as he only can: Yes, I am alive.

But maybe we shouldn't dig much deeper as necessary, 'cause finding clues in everything caused - at least on my side - some confusion, 'cause come 'clues' are just ridicules - we must not forget, this whole thing is not for fun, it's not for us to playing detectives, it's abut Michael, his safety, his life.

Maybe we don't see the big picture now, 'cause the time for it has not come... yet. You know, we're not the ones here, who create the rules...

But...
Dear Michael, if you're reading this, take your time and do what you have to do... but please, let it not least too long... 'Cause it may not take too much long and when you finally come back, you'd have to visit me @nut house...
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: mjj29081958 on January 21, 2010, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: "virgo75"
I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

Completely agree with you!  :D

And I also think that we can't figure this out because we just can speculate, suppose and give a subjetive meaning to things we find on the internet, and at the end of the day, we can't give nothing for granted.

I mean we start threads, and rarely we got an outcome, because we never know for sure what is/ is not photoshopped, what is/ is not leaked info, what is tabloid info, what is/ is not false documentation, what is old/ new stuff, and so on. Joe-Joseph thing, O2 Michael, Ambulance pic, are some examples: old stuff, but no outcome yet... we don't need to go so far: there are members who still doubt if he's alive or not: some things are too obvious, enough, or valid evidence for some members, but not for others.

Plus, we have to deal with people, trolls, insiders, haters, YouTube/MySpace/Facebook/Twitter users who enjoy play & create confusion to believers giving dates, cryptic riddles,those things are keeping us away from the investigation IMO.

That's why I think we can't figure this out  :D
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: mjmyangelbaby on January 21, 2010, 09:43:28 PM
I agree with all of you maybe we're just supposed to know that he's alive and that's it,I mean who cares where he is or what he's doing as long as he's ok and eventually he'll come back when it's safe. The only thing I want is to find one solid proof that he's alive and that's enough for me, I'll wait as long as I have to."LOVE YOU SWEET ANGEL"
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Liberian Girl Heehee on January 21, 2010, 11:16:05 PM
Maybe it's just not time yet for us to figure this out.

What I mean is that we have no hard evidence that he is alive, no more than we have hard evidence that he is dead.  If he is alive, and I believe that he is, as he said..."I will come back in my own time."  If we go ahead and figure this out, where does that leave Michael, assuming his time to return is not ready?

We have gotten sidetracked and side trolled over the last 7 months and what seems like real clues can get lost amid the chatter and naysayers.

All I know is that when you review the strong clues and wierd stuff that has taken place over the last 7 months, things surrounding the events of June 25th and the  "death" of Michael Jackson just don't add up.  When I get discouraged or anxious about wth happened, I think back to the clues that stand out the most and I keep the faith.

For me the clues that stand out the most are:
1. All the strange things relating to the O2 concert, including the March press conference and concepts such as Light Man, costumes, special effects not being ready for London opening.
2. Dr. Murray's actions on the day of and since.
3. The ambulance photo and Ben's comments about the day and the other day and his     prior friendship with MJ.
4. Jermaine's press conference announcing MJ "death" instead of a doctor.
5. The 7 COD's with no signatures.
6. The closing down of part of LAX that day.
7. Everything about the Memorial Service, including painS instead of pain.
8. The Liberian Girl picture.
9. The time between the Memorial Service and the Burial.
10. The Burial.
11.The dancers as ushers and the picture of them all surrounding Michael's picture.
12.Strange comments, behaviors, tweets of the family, especially Joe, and also KO.
13.The very strange child support hearing with CM and the issue of the judge being retired.
14.The leaks of songs never recorded before.
15. Everything about TII that points to the production of a movie and not a concert.
16. Garbage and trash cans everywhere.

I am sure I can think of at least a few more, but my brain hurts...so feel free to add to the list!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Grace on January 22, 2010, 12:12:53 AM
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

This will partially sound sharp but it is NOT intended to offend or hurt, ok?
I just want to give what is required in business projects in order to succeed and am transferring those principles to our work. I am picturing to make it more clear. We are a group of wonderful, dedicated, wise, helpful, educated and professional people here that are contributing what they can from their part.

But why can't we still figure out what happened?
1) Because we are depending on the information available in the web
(we don't check many other sources, right?) - so whoever plants there what they want us to know will be sure we'll find it one day or the other, just put Michael Jackson in the metatags / keywords and here we go;

2) Because we were so far never able to get organized
(imagine a bunch of heartful chickens (I am picturing now, no offense, ladies) - whoever is straying food for us is sure to get our attention - we all rush there - some will pick on sideways and then come back and say "look, I found something" and will present their egg - then there will be discussions on "the food was delicious today" or "they did not give us enough" or "today nothing happens, not even the fox comes watch us". And we hop back on our stack for the night.)

What would be needed to get to results is
a) structured staff with defined areas of responsibilities (we have staff but no organized task deployment, we have people popping in from time to time but not on "you are working for the red eggs in L.A. county only")
b) a center where all information gets in (we have that, it's the forum)
c) a team leader sorting, priorizing information and staff, getting the team to work where needed and putting the collected information into reports

This implies that we would have a moderator (this we have), a team leader / coordinator (this we don't have), staff (this we partially have) and would know what to do (this we don't have).

So for the lack of organization and focus, this journey can only partially be accomplished (and this was evident from the beginning, that's why we are not feared to unveil the truth).
Could we succeed ? Not if we continue as we did so far.
Would we succeed if we started now? Given the disappearance of so much information in our main source, the web, in the meantime, I doubt it.

I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: ILuvUMoreMJ on January 22, 2010, 01:32:59 AM
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
Quote from: "virgo75"
I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.


I agree with what you said about trying to find clues in everything. I think that we should try and break away from that..

Agreed...looking for clues hasn't gotten us anywhere.  I think we need to go back to the facts and start from there.  One day  soon I hope we know the whole truth.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Christiana on January 22, 2010, 01:37:04 AM
I sort of agree with many of the posts in this thread. Here's my personal take.

I don't think this hoax, if it is 100% true (sorry, but I still maintain my ounce of doubt, because I do believe it's POSSIBLE that MJ did die), is that it's not all that complicated as some theories would suggest.

To me, the fact that we can't find any concrete, 100% legitimate and factual evidence that MJ is alive, is proof that this hoax was not a well planned endeavor. Seems to me it was something that had to happen, with not a lot of planning, with VERY FEW people on it, which is why we can't get more solid evidence or "clues."

And the problem with us trying to figure it all out is that, like others have said, all we really have as a means of investigation is the Internet. Sure, some members may live in CA or TX or somewhere where they can dig in deeper. But for most of us, that is just not the case. And guess what? The Internet is not proof of anything. We can find things that APPEAR to support something we believe, and in many cases, when someone finds something like that, they post it like it's the most important "clue" ever found. But then what? It's either something someone posted 3 months ago. Or it's something posted 3 days ago (multiple times) and people don't bother to verify if their information is new by daily clicking on View New Posts and reading through all the topics to be sure! Or they post something within a thread that has been posted already multiple times...but they don't actually read the thread to know that, so the thread goes on for pages, with the same exact info being rehashed over and over and over. Or it's something that doesn't really mean anything. It's all counterproductive.

Another problem is that habit by some of clinging to trivial, meaningless, or far-fetched notions that are shear and utter speculation, with little or no basis in fact. And days are spent (with sometimes hundreds of posts) on one thread/"clue" that goes absolutely nowhere. Sometimes it's not even about clues...it's endless threads about LMP or the Jackson brothers or LaToya or whatever. And most of this stuff has nothing to do with the hoax, so to me, it's time and energy wasted that could be better spent focusing on something more important.

Relying on a forum (any forum) as means of storing the results of our research is pure folly at this point. We've seen forums crash and burn with months of evidence and research in them. It can happen anywhere at any time. So to me, the best way to preserve any evidence that is meaningful to you is to back it up yourself. Save photos, web pages, documents and whatever else on your own computer...and back it up...OFTEN, if you really don't want to lose it.

I also don't think it's possible for us to form a cohesive and unified staff to direct and organize the investigation and the accumulation of research. Because in order to do that, there'd have to be a group of people who all agree on a specific theory to pinpoint our focus, and that's just not possible. We all believe different things here. And clearly we do not always agree because we are all very different people in different parts of the world, in different time zones, of different ages, approaching everything with very different points of view. In many ways that can be helpful. I know that has led me to some new ideas that I just may not have come to on my own. But with regard to organizing and such, it just makes it more challenging, IMO.

I honestly believe that if our beloved MJ is still alive, and IF some regular person (like any one of us) is going to find evidence to prove that fact, that evidence will never see the light of day. Seriously. If Michael knocked at my door tomorrow, came into my house, and proceeded to tell me that he had to hoax his death and why, and then told me that I could never tell ANYONE...EVER. Guess what? I never would. And even if I found out something on my own that absolutely, positively 100% proved that he is alive, and if it confirmed to me that he and/or his children/family were or are in danger...again, I would not reveal my proof to anyone. Would you?

If MJ is alive and plans a return, I just firmly believe that he is the one who will make it known to the world, in his own way, and in his own time. Will there be occasional clues for us to find, intentionally or otherwise? Maybe. Maybe not. But I also believe that much of what people currently believe to be "proof" or "clues" is really meaningless. I don't mean this to be rude or offensive. I just don't believe that there are that many real clues. I do think that there are some to be found, but we have not found them yet...not the real ones. And that's why I keep looking. But I don't think MJ is just leaving them for us, like breadcrumbs to follow. I think they are purely accidental or coincidental.

So that's my take...totally my own opinion, and meant with no disrespect to any of the members here. It's just how I feel about it all. I'm on this journey, and hoping it leads to the truth. And that's how I approach everything I do with regard to my own investigation: looking for truth, not looking for things to fit a particular theory.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: KINGdom52 on January 22, 2010, 03:14:32 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

Totally agree! I personally beleive that we just can't figure this out ! Not because we're dense or anything like that 'cause if we were we wouldn't even be here !
I think that we just can't find a 100% solid proof. And I also agree that many times we spent a lot of time in meaningless threads.
We see a tree and we loose the forest!
I mean, how on earth we can prove that the amb. picture is photoshopped and not true ?
Only if we have Ben Evanstad (or whatever his name) saying "yes I falsified the picture" or" yes Michael put a mannequin in the amb." or "yes Michael posed for me" or whatever...

Guys, this is a HUGE case.I don't think we can imagine how deep it goes !
It's not a game its'a matter of life for Michael , for his protection and his safety.
If we had a solid proof for this hoax ,then there wouldn't be any hoax at all !
It would become crystal clear to anyone  that he's alive and then ...what ?
All these clues are here for us , the devoted fans and waiting to be found .
So take one step at a time. Be patient.
And if nothing else, at least we did something big by standing against the stream and fought for what we beleive.
Isn't that something ?

Relax my friends, at the end THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!
maybe it takes a little bit more time but

I WILL ALWAYS BE HERE FOR MY MICHAEL !
(and i think most of you) ;)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: rag doll on January 22, 2010, 03:53:43 AM
I´m impressed to find so much self-awareness in this topic - and so much truth!
 
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

I join my previous speakers: the acknowledged dependence on the media as our main informant and leaker and
the diversity in interpretation of what we see and hear makes it almost impossible for us to go consequently in the same direction.
But that might very well be also part of the plan: the secret would be safe within all that tumult and no one would seriously give credit to some conspiracy theorists - not until it´s time to reveal that (maybe?) the "minority" was in fact right.

Perhaps that appertains to the punchline?...

So whatever we believe or not - anyway, it´s good to "come together" over here - over HIM.  :)
L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: ILuvUMoreMJ on January 22, 2010, 04:00:12 AM
Quote from: "rag doll"
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

:lol:  I know the feeling!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: rag doll on January 22, 2010, 04:23:02 AM
Quote from: "ILuvUMoreMJ"
Quote from: "rag doll"
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

:lol:  I know the feeling!

 :lol: Thank you! That´s what I love here - sharing solidarity!  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Sangre on January 22, 2010, 06:06:37 AM
Sometimes we've got the answers right under our noses. Perhaps we have gone so deep into our researches that we just don't notice what's on the surface.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: CC on January 22, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

@christiana
"To me, the fact that we can't find any concrete, 100% legitimate and factual evidence that MJ is alive, is proof that this hoax was not a well planned endeavor. Seems to me it was something that had to happen, with not a lot of planning, with VERY FEW people on it, which is why we can't get more solid evidence or "clues." "

i´m starting to think what christiana wrote...
maybe all this starts just like the hoax of december, and goes and goes... who knows?
maybe this hoax works, and the other not... just that!
maybe the clues are not clues, just something not well planned, some inconsisteinces and lies of something without a lot of planning... maybe the people involved really don´t know some part of this hoax, maybe some people, like joe sais, don´t see mj body... and really don´t know what really happen... is like all are waiting what is going to happen... all are waiting...ME TOO!
HE LIKE IT SIMPLE! MAYBE IS JUST THAT: SIMPLE!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: MashMike on January 22, 2010, 01:18:28 PM
to  KINGdom52


I totally agree with u,couldn't say it better,it's just the same thing i feel and think.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: rowdyangel on January 22, 2010, 01:25:56 PM
I agree with what many have said here.

There have been way too many distractions.  We need to remove ourselves from the "will he come back" aspect and just go right back to basics and work out what happened on 25th June - nothing more.  We need to go back to the start of 2009 and lead up to the O2 announcement first of all and then what happened between March and June.

We have been bombarded with information these last 7 months and it's just too much.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Grace on January 22, 2010, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: "Christiana"
And that's how I approach everything I do with regard to my own investigation: looking for truth, not looking for things to fit a particular theory.
Thank you - as always a very good analysis and I share your thoughts.
:-)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: KINGdom52 on January 22, 2010, 01:51:14 PM
Thank you, MashMike. :)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Grenat on January 22, 2010, 02:11:11 PM
Quote
For me the clues that stand out the most are:
1. All the strange things relating to the O2 concert, including the March press conference and concepts such as Light Man, costumes, special effects not being ready for London opening.
2. Dr. Murray's actions on the day of and since.
3. The ambulance photo and Ben's comments about the day and the other day and his prior friendship with MJ.
4. Jermaine's press conference announcing MJ "death" instead of a doctor.
5. The 7 COD's with no signatures.
6. The closing down of part of LAX that day.
7. Everything about the Memorial Service, including painS instead of pain.
8. The Liberian Girl picture.
9. The time between the Memorial Service and the Burial.
10. The Burial.
11.The dancers as ushers and the picture of them all surrounding Michael's picture.
12.Strange comments, behaviors, tweets of the family, especially Joe, and also KO.
13.The very strange child support hearing with CM and the issue of the judge being retired.
14.The leaks of songs never recorded before.
15. Everything about TII that points to the production of a movie and not a concert.
16. Garbage and trash cans everywhere.

I agree mostly with all the points you cited.
I would add that Conrad Murray is a whole mystery himself.
This is not just his behavior that day,25th of June that is disturbing.
He has many things that are just strange around that man :
He has multiples names and several birthdays..His wife is a doctor too.
We have not pictures or hearings of him prior to 2009
The fact that he disapeared the day Michael "died"
The fact that paps doesn't seems to be able to find him/don't search him,even tough he is the most responsible for the biggest drama of 2009(or at least one of the biggest)
The fact that LAPD doesn't seem to be really quick to investigate on him at all.
The conflicting stories about his hiring( Did Michael hire him or AEG did)
The fact he was not licensed to practise either in California or London...

I could get on and on...and I did only focus on one person that is weird in this whole story..there is no end to weird happening and unbelievables things surrounding the death of Michael..that's too much
The problem is that yes,we look too much maybe into everything,
We are being distracted by useless drama and fights among the members,
there are trolls popping out everywhere,claiming to be Michael or someone close to him.
We should unite at one and let everyone have his/her part to search everything we can,with a rational look about this.
We came here to know the truth surrounding Michael's death, and if he hoaxed his death, what is he trying to tell us,right ?Not to fight with anyone and cause useless drama...
We shouldn't get distracted of this mission.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: GirlSaturday on January 22, 2010, 02:40:41 PM
Has anyone ever lost something and spent time frantically looking in the logical places where they may have lost that item? I lost my house keys one day after a trip to the grocery store. I searched high and low for the keys. I retraced my steps and practically tore my home apart in search of those keys. Finally I decided to take a break, collect my emotions and  get a drink from the refrigerator. Guess what I saw inside of the refrigerator? The keys! I had absentmindely put away groceries AND keys.  :oops:

Maybe we're thinking too much and too logically. Perhaps the BAM is sitting patiently in some illogical place yet we keep looking over it, around it and under it because the BAM couldn't possibly be found "there".    ;)

Adults think very deeply. Children think in simple terms. A child is hungry and sees a package of cookies. The child eats the cookies so the hunger is satisfied. Meanwhile adults have to spend 15 minutes to study the caloric intake and nutritional value of the cookies as their stomach rumbles. I am going to try and channel my inner child to help me figure out this hoax. It cannot be nearly as complicated as we wise  and deep thinking adults on hoax forums have made it out to be.  :lol:
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: THE JACKSONOLOGIST on January 22, 2010, 02:48:02 PM
Quote from: "GirlSaturday"
Has anyone ever lost something and spent time frantically looking in the logical places where they may have lost that item? I lost my house keys one day after a trip to the grocery store. I searched high and low for the keys. I retraced my steps and practically tore my home apart in search of those keys. Finally I decided to take a break, collect my emotions and  get a drink from the refrigerator. Guess what I saw inside of the refrigerator? The keys! I had absentmindely put away groceries AND keys.  :oops:

Maybe we're thinking too much and too logically. Perhaps the BAM is sitting patiently in some illogical place yet we keep looking over it, around it and under it because the BAM couldn't possibly be found "there".    ;)

Adults think very deeply. Children think in simple terms. A child is hungry and sees a package of cookies. The child eats the cookies so the hunger is satisfied. Meanwhile adults have to spend 15 minutes to study the caloric intake and nutritional value of the cookies as their stomach rumbles. I am going to try and channel my inner child to help me figure out this hoax. It cannot be nearly as complicated as we wise  and deep thinking adults on hoax forums have made it out to be.  :lol:


Ta-daaahhhh!!!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: bubaliciousjlb on January 22, 2010, 04:23:32 PM
imo since the #7 is always popping up then maybe the bam we come after 7 major things are played out. help me out ive made a list of important parts in the hoax again just my opinion.
1- death announcement
2- memorial/funeral
3- burial
4- this is it movie
5- the jackson's a family dynasty show
6- release of this is it on blu ray and dvd
7-

i dont have anything for seven but can u help me can it be this simple. ( i was thinking the reveal )
with love L.O.V.E
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Dancing_Machine on January 22, 2010, 04:43:33 PM
Most of the clues that stick out are already mention. There's one more:

There's nowhere in the whole TII movie a tribute to Michael. Not even a simple 'Michael Jackson 1958 - 2009 R.I.P'. No nothing!

Very much like he's alive and kicking!  :D
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Rita Hayworth on January 22, 2010, 06:14:12 PM
I liked your list of 6 things.

If he's waiting until his message has reached as many people as possible, then what about the following:

The 3-d performance of Earth Song at the Grammy's and
the remake of "Heal the World" that's supposed to happen the day after the Grammy's. Both songs are specifically related to his messages.

Now AEG supposedly is thinking about using This Is It as  some kind of concert tribute.
I have always thought that's when Michael would come back. Everything up to this point has been the mouse and snake thing...in preparation for the big shamone.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Lemonbread904 on January 23, 2010, 09:24:49 PM
This is the information that we already know. Michael was going to have 10 concerts in London. Then it was increased to 50 concerts. Now if we take a look at what is/was going on at that time in the world, we just might get a better understanding of the entire situtation. If you do a little research, you will see that London is a hot place for terrorist attacks. Now with modern technology and with the different types of chemical warfare to be used, can you imagine what would have happened if Michael would have went ahead with the plans, Michael is a Global Icon. He would have drawn alot of people to London.

You also have to remember that Michael has a lot of influential friends around the world. They will protect him at any cost.

People we need to start thinking outside of the box. Start thinking GLOBAL. Michael always keeps up with the news Globally. He does not just thinks about the United States.

As it was stated before, start back before March of 2009.  The FBI do not just keep files on just any celebrity. It would have to be  on someone that's greatly known.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: PinkTopaz on January 23, 2010, 10:31:14 PM
We already know he's alive, and TIAI is his message- do we really need any more threads like this? We need to spread his message!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Grace on January 24, 2010, 04:10:34 AM
Quote from: "PinkTopaz"
We already know he's alive, and TIAI is his message- do we really need any more threads like this? We need to spread his message!

Who says that TIAI is Michael's message?
Nobody.
Just that somebody claims "to be in the know".
We had that a hundred times before and all I can say to this: either they keep their mouth shut or they give their true full names and proof.

TIAI is not the truth nor is is NWO / Illuminati and all the other side shows we witnessed.
This is all planted to distract us from the real thing.
Who kept an eye on music business? All ran for "OMG somebody wants to control us, extinct us, invented the swine flu and the world will collapse".
This is fear and fear makes blind and run where the emergency exit is being indicated.
Did you notice who when why indicated his emergency exit for you and where you are running?

We do not know the truth. There is not one single truth. Never. Look into your own life, take out one of your decisions and you'll easily recognize there were a bunch of reasons why you decided this or that way.
We do not know Michael, we do not know much about his life except what he published to us and let us know. And still there are different opinions on what we were confronted with, fltered and pre-categorized by media anyway.

So if you jump for TIAI, TNZ, NWO, Illuminati, the world is full of bad - everything has two sides and looking at one only is simplifying your perception and easing your frustration, nothing more, nothing less.

If TIAI would have been THE truth, Michael could have come back already.
That he's not back is indication enough to me that
1) it doesn't matter if WE know the truth and
2) if we were meant to get known to the truth, we did not get it yet so TIAI is not the truth.
3) the only truth that we already know is that the published media version cannot be the truth and that it is all for L.O.V.E.

Everything else is side scene, worthwhile discussing and exploring and a chance to wake-up and self-education but has nothing to do with Michael in the first place.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: KingofPop4ever on January 24, 2010, 05:12:27 AM
Well we are definitely missing some parts of the puzzle. I think we have a mixture of really important clues, and some that aren't so important, but we are still over looking some of the important ones, and the simple ones. ,I think the biggest problem right now, is that people are too worried about when he'll be back. It seems like people aren't researching as much anymore. But yeah we are missing some of the clues, and we never will figure out all of them, until MJ comes back. I'm sure we'll say 'DUH, why didn't I notice that before?' when it comes to some of the obvious clues that we missed. And sometimes we do dig too deep, when it's right in front of our faces. We just gotta keep going though...we can't give up, just because there haven't been a lot of clues lately.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Raven on January 24, 2010, 07:33:04 AM
If you need a place to schematically view and share data, try this:
Michael Jackson Death Investigation @ Debategraph (http://debategraph.org/Stream.aspx?mid=1504)
It is intended for truthfinding, so it is not exclusively ment for 'hoax' ideas, everyone can contribute their ideas and data.

Debategraph is very popular and is also used for instanced by CNN (Amanpour) and The Independent
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Sarahli on January 24, 2010, 08:54:02 AM
The Music Industry is also a NWO toy, you cannot say that this NWO is not the truth and ignore it because it really exists. Michael is aware of that. If Michael is not coming back it is certainly because most of people here don't believe in TIAI content.

I personally think that this hoax was well planned and from a long time ago. Michael is a perfectionnist. If we can't yet figure out what EXACTLY happened on 25th June it's just because we weren't at Michael's home...I think very few even amongst Michael's family know what Exactly happened that day. They know about the hoax but maybe not about all the details.  

If we have not yet THE EVIDENCE, THE PROOF of Michael being alive it is normal and part of the hoax.
The medias are fooling us all the time and we don't realize. We have to learn the lesson. Michael is not going to give us a legal or obvious proof that he's alive such as a photo of him with the newspaper of the day in his hands, that could put him in danger and destroy his project, no.
Things will come with time, step by step. We have yet enough evidences, hints showing us that Michael is alive then there is a part of intimate conviction. We can now go beyond the alive-not alive topic and focus on the why of all this.

God bless you
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: mjj29081958 on January 24, 2010, 08:55:32 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "PinkTopaz"
We already know he's alive, and TIAI is his message- do we really need any more threads like this? We need to spread his message!

Who says that TIAI is Michael's message?
Nobody.
Just that somebody claims "to be in the know".
We had that a hundred times before and all I can say to this: either they keep their mouth shut or they give their true full names and proof.

TIAI is not the truth nor is is NWO / Illuminati and all the other side shows we witnessed.
This is all planted to distract us from the real thing.
Who kept an eye on music business? All ran for "OMG somebody wants to control us, extinct us, invented the swine flu and the world will collapse".
This is fear and fear makes blind and run where the emergency exit is being indicated.
Did you notice who when why indicated his emergency exit for you and where you are running?

We do not know the truth. There is not one single truth. Never. Look into your own life, take out one of your decisions and you'll easily recognize there were a bunch of reasons why you decided this or that way.
We do not know Michael, we do not know much about his life except what he published to us and let us know. And still there are different opinions on what we were confronted with, fltered and pre-categorized by media anyway.

So if you jump for TIAI, TNZ, NWO, Illuminati, the world is full of bad - everything has two sides and looking at one only is simplifying your perception and easing your frustration, nothing more, nothing less.

If TIAI would have been THE truth, Michael could have come back already.
That he's not back is indication enough to me that
1) it doesn't matter if WE know the truth and
2) if we were meant to get known to the truth, we did not get it yet so TIAI is not the truth.
3) the only truth that we already know is that the published media version cannot be the truth and that it is all for L.O.V.E.

Everything else is side scene, worthwhile discussing and exploring and a chance to wake-up and self-education but has nothing to do with Michael in the first place.

Ok Grace, now I like & agree with your post, certainly full of true & sense. I'm trying to say this since... I cannot remember anymore, but I'm not that brave. It's a relief for me that someone said it,  although I do respect the members choice to believe in whatever they want.

@PinkTopaz

I think that since one of our members felt the need to start this thread & others replied, maybe yes, we do "need threads like this". Maybe some members aren't still so sure as you are. I'm really glad that you already find your true, but it would be nice if you can give us the chance to find it by ourselves, though.

JMO. Peace guys!.  :)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: CC on January 24, 2010, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "PinkTopaz"
We already know he's alive, and TIAI is his message- do we really need any more threads like this? We need to spread his message!

Who says that TIAI is Michael's message?
Nobody.
Just that somebody claims "to be in the know".
We had that a hundred times before and all I can say to this: either they keep their mouth shut or they give their true full names and proof.

TIAI is not the truth nor is is NWO / Illuminati and all the other side shows we witnessed.
This is all planted to distract us from the real thing.
Who kept an eye on music business? All ran for "OMG somebody wants to control us, extinct us, invented the swine flu and the world will collapse".
This is fear and fear makes blind and run where the emergency exit is being indicated.
Did you notice who when why indicated his emergency exit for you and where you are running?

We do not know the truth. There is not one single truth. Never. Look into your own life, take out one of your decisions and you'll easily recognize there were a bunch of reasons why you decided this or that way.
We do not know Michael, we do not know much about his life except what he published to us and let us know. And still there are different opinions on what we were confronted with, fltered and pre-categorized by media anyway.

So if you jump for TIAI, TNZ, NWO, Illuminati, the world is full of bad - everything has two sides and looking at one only is simplifying your perception and easing your frustration, nothing more, nothing less.

If TIAI would have been THE truth, Michael could have come back already.
That he's not back is indication enough to me that
1) it doesn't matter if WE know the truth and
2) if we were meant to get known to the truth, we did not get it yet so TIAI is not the truth.
3) the only truth that we already know is that the published media version cannot be the truth and that it is all for L.O.V.E.

Everything else is side scene, worthwhile discussing and exploring and a chance to wake-up and self-education but has nothing to do with Michael in the first place.

thank you grace! your post clear as always! ;)
i don´t believe nothing more...
i´m hopeless sometimes, i feel like we don´t have all that we want... but is just that! we have and see only the thinks that HE want to show, nothing more, nothing less...
at this point i don´t know when and if he really come back, and i don´t care... i want him back! but is so selfish this feeling that i don´t like it.
i feel that he is alive, i know that...
but i don´t understand why and how... but is Ok. he has his reasons and i support that!
we love him more than we thought, and we miss him much more.... :roll:
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Kirsche on January 24, 2010, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: "CC"
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "PinkTopaz"
We already know he's alive, and TIAI is his message- do we really need any more threads like this? We need to spread his message!

Who says that TIAI is Michael's message?
Nobody.
Just that somebody claims "to be in the know".
We had that a hundred times before and all I can say to this: either they keep their mouth shut or they give their true full names and proof.

TIAI is not the truth nor is is NWO / Illuminati and all the other side shows we witnessed.
This is all planted to distract us from the real thing.
Who kept an eye on music business? All ran for "OMG somebody wants to control us, extinct us, invented the swine flu and the world will collapse".
This is fear and fear makes blind and run where the emergency exit is being indicated.
Did you notice who when why indicated his emergency exit for you and where you are running?

We do not know the truth. There is not one single truth. Never. Look into your own life, take out one of your decisions and you'll easily recognize there were a bunch of reasons why you decided this or that way.
We do not know Michael, we do not know much about his life except what he published to us and let us know. And still there are different opinions on what we were confronted with, fltered and pre-categorized by media anyway.

So if you jump for TIAI, TNZ, NWO, Illuminati, the world is full of bad - everything has two sides and looking at one only is simplifying your perception and easing your frustration, nothing more, nothing less.

If TIAI would have been THE truth, Michael could have come back already.
That he's not back is indication enough to me that
1) it doesn't matter if WE know the truth and
2) if we were meant to get known to the truth, we did not get it yet so TIAI is not the truth.
3) the only truth that we already know is that the published media version cannot be the truth and that it is all for L.O.V.E.

Everything else is side scene, worthwhile discussing and exploring and a chance to wake-up and self-education but has nothing to do with Michael in the first place.

thank you grace! your post clear as always! ;)
i don´t believe nothing more...
i´m hopeless sometimes, i feel like we don´t have all that we want... but is just that! we have and see only the thinks that HE want to show, nothing more, nothing less...
at this point i don´t know when and if he really come back, and i don´t care... i want him back! but is so selfish this feeling that i don´t like it.
i feel that he is alive, i know that...
but i don´t understand why and how... but is Ok. he has his reasons and i support that!
we love him more than we thought, and we miss him much more.... :roll:



It would be great IF he come back...but I'm not sure about that...and I would understand if he wouldn't....But the only I would like to have then, is a clear message of him  for us, saying that he's okay,  if he really is...that's one of the things I wish....and the truth
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: CC on January 24, 2010, 02:00:38 PM
@KIRSCHE
i know how you feel, i need that clear message too... i´m waiting! ;)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Confused on January 24, 2010, 03:05:21 PM
Haven't been on here for a while now and it is precisely because of all the different theories etcetera. I was tired of going through topics that were supposed to contain news and when clicking on it on were some show where Michael was lifting up his hand which supposedly proves something (no offense to anyone).. I appreciate all different views and what people bring to the table but let us concentrate on things we can prove and that are real..When I signed up a few months ago I was excited because it looked like we were truly investigating the official reading of things. That we were looking at things that seemed irregular and that we tried to prove they were. Many people on here have said what I feel at this point. Christina in particular hit the nail straight on the head. We can't prove 99% of the stuff on here. We've seen to have wandered into our own self made reality. We created where we are now. And it has little to do (unfortunately) with factual findings.

I don't think people are giving us clues.The things that are strange about this were things that we caught onto due to mistakes made by management *Michael and people involved* .. If you look at all of this we know that the things we found as weird in the beginning were things you could truly point out and were directly related to the process of setting a hoax up like this...ambulances,doctors,timeline etc. All the other stuff we kind of created ourselves. I wish we would go back to how it started. Concentrate on IF there is a hoax and prove that instead of why and when he will return etcetera. We can't prove the latter. We only have a shot at proving the IF part.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: PinkTopaz on January 24, 2010, 11:16:11 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Who says that TIAI is Michael's message?
Nobody.
Just that somebody claims "to be in the know".
We had that a hundred times before and all I can say to this: either they keep their mouth shut or they give their true full names and proof.
Grace, it's obvious that you didn't read all of TIAI, otherwise you would have remembered this: "1-3. What Does the Username “TS” Stand For?

As far as the person(s) operating TIAI (dot-com): many people are not concerned who it is; they just see the importance of the message, and the evidence that it is genuine, and that is sufficient for them.

Others have tried to name a specific person behind it—such as Marlon Jackson, or someone with the personal initials of “TS”. If it really is Marlon, then surely TIAI would be genuine; however, even if I claimed to be Marlon, this would not prove that I really am Marlon. This is why I asked people to go by the evidence that the information is genuine, and not by my claim of who I am or where I got the information.

On the other hand, if I claimed to be someone with the initials of “TS”—this would not prove that I really have those initials; in fact, it wouldn’t even prove that I am not Marlon! And even if I really did have these initials, how could that be any evidence whatsoever that TIAI is or is not genuine??? And yet several have dismissed TIAI, merely on this idea that I have these personal initials!

For the sake of argument, let’s assume that I do have these personal initials—and if this fact became known, then that alone would prove TIAI to be a fake. Do you suppose that if this were actually the case, I would be so careless as to use “TS” for a username??? After all of the time and thought that was put into TIAI and STUDY: would “TS” thoughtlessly be picked for a username, if it would (supposedly) prove that TIAI is fake? Have any of you TIAI objectors stopped to think about how flimsy your objections really are? And by the way: did any of you sharp investigators notice that “TS” is an abbreviation for T-IAI and S-TUDY??

Several people misunderstood the following statement, which was in TIAI Revealed, Part 1: “I am not going to say right now how I got this information; many would not believe me if I told you.”

The point here, especially taken in the wider context, is that I am not asking anyone to believe the information based upon my claim of who is behind TIAI, and/or where the information came from. For example, if I claimed to be Marlon, many would not believe that I am Marlon just because I say so. The words “many would not believe me if I told you”, refer to the previous phrase: “how I got this information”—it is not the information itself that many would not believe, if I told you where I got it.

So once again, the information itself has abundant evidence in the 9 parts, that the information is genuine; so any claim of where I got it is not needed. What is needed, however, is a clear understanding of the evidence which does show the information to be valid. This evidence was understood fairly well by some, but almost completely overlooked and ignored by others—including some who said they read all 9 parts. I have to wonder how quickly they skimmed over it. So in this update, I will go over the evidences that TIAI is genuine; many of these will be repeats taken from portions of the 9 parts (which quite a few people missed and/or ignored), but there will also be a few new ones.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1-4. Why Do You Believe the Hoax?

It’s true that a few things can happen by random coincidence; but when they keep piling one on top of another, that’s when you say it can’t all be a coincidence. In fact, this is one of the main reasons why so many believe in the MJ hoax—because there are too many “coincidences”. And if you are going to dismiss all the TIAI evidence as merely “coincidences”: then why don’t you dismiss the MJ hoax “coincidences” as well?

So we will review the TIAI (and STUDY) “coincidences”, all of which are backed up with very solid evidence. For those who want to continue opposing TIAI, you are more than welcome to do so as long as your opposition is based on solid evidence—not mere ridicule, or shallow complaints, etc. And also please step up to the plate, and explain all of these “coincidences”—instead of just ignoring them, and pretending that they don’t exist. And if you think anything is incorrect, then please document why it is wrong. People shouldn’t be expected to trust what you say, merely because you say it—anymore than people should be expected to trust what TIAI says, without solid evidence."

That's from Update 1: http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=3391&p=52818#p52818 You should really read it, and all of the Revealed threads: http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts because you should never judge anything without thoroughly reading it and giving it a chance first.

Quote from: "Grace"
TIAI is not the truth nor is is NWO / Illuminati and all the other side shows we witnessed.
This is all planted to distract us from the real thing.
Who kept an eye on music business? All ran for "OMG somebody wants to control us, extinct us, invented the swine flu and the world will collapse".
This is fear and fear makes blind and run where the emergency exit is being indicated.
Did you notice who when why indicated his emergency exit for you and where you are running?


We do not know the truth. There is not one single truth. Never. Look into your own life, take out one of your decisions and you'll easily recognize there were a bunch of reasons why you decided this or that way.
We do not know Michael, we do not know much about his life except what he published to us and let us know. And still there are different opinions on what we were confronted with, fltered and pre-categorized by media anyway.

So if you jump for TIAI, TNZ, NWO, Illuminati, the world is full of bad - everything has two sides and looking at one only is simplifying your perception and easing your frustration, nothing more, nothing less.

If TIAI would have been THE truth, Michael could have come back already.
That he's not back is indication enough to me that
1) it doesn't matter if WE know the truth and
2) if we were meant to get known to the truth, we did not get it yet so TIAI is not the truth.
3) the only truth that we already know is that the published media version cannot be the truth and that it is all for L.O.V.E.

Everything else is side scene, worthwhile discussing and exploring and a chance to wake-up and self-education but has nothing to do with Michael in the first place.
[/quote]
Bold statement 1: How would you know it isn't? None of us do, so please don't say things like that. I suggest reading Mo and Souza's blog about Illuminati and New World Order- there's plenty that adds up. Even if the explicit details of the Illuminati/NWO are off, reading about them is still opening our minds and getting us to think twice about things about governments and conspiracies- how is that "distracting" us? It's about being aware of possibilities- not selling fear. Nobody is being blinded by what TS writes at all, it's the opposite- instead, it pushes us to learn more, study more, to open our eyes, even if we turn out to be wrong.

Bold Statement 2: Again, it's obvious that you haven't read all of TIAI, because TS states that it's not about fear, it's about awareness. Yes, everything has two sides and the other side of this is that we, the people, have power, too, we outnumber the powers that be, and since you seem to think that fear is so powerful remember that knowing what you're dealing with- and L.O.V.E. can overcome fear. I want you to please read all of TIAI before you reply to me.




Quote from: "Confused"
Haven't been on here for a while now and it is precisely because of all the different theories etcetera. I was tired of going through topics that were supposed to contain news and when clicking on it on were some show where Michael was lifting up his hand which supposedly proves something (no offense to anyone).. I appreciate all different views and what people bring to the table but let us concentrate on things we can prove and that are real..When I signed up a few months ago I was excited because it looked like we were truly investigating the official reading of things. That we were looking at things that seemed irregular and that we tried to prove they were. Many people on here have said what I feel at this point. Christina in particular hit the nail straight on the head. We can't prove 99% of the stuff on here. We've seen to have wandered into our own self made reality. We created where we are now. And it has little to do (unfortunately) with factual findings.

I don't think people are giving us clues.The things that are strange about this were things that we caught onto due to mistakes made by management *Michael and people involved* .. If you look at all of this we know that the things we found as weird in the beginning were things you could truly point out and were directly related to the process of setting a hoax up like this...ambulances,doctors,timeline etc. All the other stuff we kind of created ourselves. I wish we would go back to how it started. Concentrate on IF there is a hoax and prove that instead of why and when he will return etcetera. We can't prove the latter. We only have a shot at proving the IF part.
Confused, you too should read all of TIAI, if you haven't, carefully, and give it a chance to change your mind.  Haven't we been investigating this for seven months? You want things to go back to how they were, but we've already figured all of that out! The memorial, funeral, Murray stuff all of that, we've gone over it again and again, any more time spent on these is time wasted. It's been seven months now, don't most of us still think it's a hoax? If you or anyone still feel the hoax is an "if" you should go back and read those again, if you want, but I think that now we should be focusing on the "whys" and not the "hows" at all, because the stuff you mentioned, we've drained those dry. It would be a shame to waste any more time on "was he really at the hospital" and all of that- no one from the hoax camp has their story straight, so that should be a big proof in itself. I hope I don't offend anyone, but I honestly think that if anyone still feels the hoax is an "if" they should study the old stuff again, and if that isn't enough, than move on to a different forum or try again- remember,"why" anyone would go so far in their life as to hoax their death is the most important part of the whole thing!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Grace on January 25, 2010, 12:49:50 AM
PinkTopaz,
thank you for your detailed answer.

I read all and I concluded that I don't go for it.
I am open for all discussions, I am not claiming what I believe is the only way to look at it and I am correcting myself when required. We are all developping in this journey.

There are some who think A is right, some think B is right and that's all fine with me.
We should not consider us being opponents - we are narrowing from different points of view.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: rag doll on January 25, 2010, 01:26:56 AM
I agree with Grace:

Quote
There are some who think A is right, some think B is right and that's all fine with me.
We should not consider us being opponents - we are narrowing from different points of view.

The only "problem" in this case is, that A and B are poles apart.
But with that knowledge, we should all concentrate on the things that unite us, not those which separate.
There are common threads why we´re all here:

Michael Jackson, justice and the truth.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: ILuvUMoreMJ on January 25, 2010, 06:42:11 AM
Very well said, Grace and Confused.  I couldn't agree more!  ;)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Em on February 03, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: "KingofPop4ever"
Well we are definitely missing some parts of the puzzle. I think we have a mixture of really important clues, and some that aren't so important, but we are still over looking some of the important ones, and the simple ones.

I don't know if this has been said before. The Mayan calendar ends December 21, 2012. There has been references in TII about that. "We have 4 years to get it right".

911 CALL WAS AT 12:21 !!!!!!!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Hoaxornot on February 03, 2010, 09:14:46 PM
yes I remember Michael saying in TII we only have 4 years
4 years for what?
We know about global warming and the rainforest being destroyed but this is going to take more then 4 years to be completely destroyed

what was he talking about
Why 4 years?
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: SoundOfCrescendo on February 03, 2010, 11:48:15 PM
I think there's so many possibilities, and Michael is so Brilliant, that without an explanation we'll never know what happened. That's just my thought. :lol:
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Eva R on February 04, 2010, 12:18:17 AM
He just makes it hard for us so we will search it so we have something to do till he comes back :D
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Em on February 04, 2010, 10:52:05 AM
If you guys really think this a hoax, then it is sort of an illusion, right? Michael liked magic.

The 2 things that make up a good magic trick are:

1) SEEING something that is NOT there. Making you believe you saw something.
2) NOT SEEING something that's staring you right in the face. This is done by distraction or in magician lingo – misdirection.  


We have SEEN the things that's in front of us and keep on looking at what's staring us in the face. That's what we are supposed to do, not to listen to others. We have seen these things right from the start! The things that just didn't seem right to us.

We have to look at the most obvious. I think you have done that and came up with great conclusions.

Look, all of you want him to come back, maybe he will or maybe he won't.
It looks like a lot of people are hearing his message for the first time now. If he chooses to remain out of sight, I do think that his influences will be around us and he could get more of his message out. That's the important thing, right?
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: kelly wright on February 04, 2010, 12:24:01 PM
I think Dr Murray was set up to take the fall in advance ,they use a drug that there are no laws attached to . The police LAPD screwed the crime scene up , creating a loophole for Dr Murray ,another loophole was created for Murray when the family was allowed to enter the crime scene before the crime scene was properly processed . These are arguments that Murray's defense team are going to use .And someone else on here pointed out ,if Murray can't afford to pay child support then how is he paying for a defense lawyer ? Why would anyone think that the LAPD would help Mj cover up his death ? The LAPD did everything they could to destroy MJ . And they were working with the FBI for quite some time ,why did n't the FBI reveal that they had nothing on MJ before the trial {even Tom Messerua wanted to know why & MJ"s Family } because some one wanted to punish Mj . Who ? A number of people involved in the music industry ,with Gov. Ties . The very same elite that own the media , own music co ,etc and war profiteers .Mj has been trying to expose them thru his music for yrs . But no one was listening, some of us were but were not connecting the dots .There is an evilness going on in the music Industry that is mostly controlled by the elite and Mj has been trying to break free from the :system "{that's what he calls it in his lyrics "Xscape "} "This time around " it's in his lyrics . This is way more sinister than some folks on here think .Anyone that thinks MJ did this for" Art" or some sort of revenge on the media is living in LA LA Land .You need to think that is is possible that he was murdered , even if you don't think he 's dead, if you investigate ,every aspect of it . If you have allready made up your mind that he' is alive then how are you going to have an unbiased investigation .A lot of peeps on this site are so preoccupied with the death Hoax ,they they are unable to "think outside the box of the hoax itself " what if someone else planned MJ's Murder ,with Murray and others ,of course . That is into symbolism and numerology ? {illuminatti } That would explain MJ's counter Attack with using Biblical numbers{ 777 } subliminal messaging .He was battling evil that at some point in his life he realized were trying to use him and his fame ,Music in a negative way . He started using there own game against them by using Music ,symbols and subliminal messages to fight them and expose them . These elites are obsessed with power , Mj was scaring them with his message of peace and love he became even more powerful after attaining Half of Sony . So they try to destroy his ability to make money to produce his own Music or sell it,by accusing him of Molestation . And they failed ' they did not care wether he was convicted or not because the media and most of the UK & US destroyed him thru the media ,which was their goal . I think the LAPD should be more closely scrutinized . The LAPD has a history of being corrupt within the Music industry {SEE Tupac & Biggie Docu. on hulu Tv } Also see "Heidi Fleiss Hollywood Madam" also on Hulu TV they show Darryl Gates {former chief of police } excepting Money from journalist to :talk } also the Rodney King beating & the La Riots . The Lapd is totally corrupt and cannot be trusted to do a through investigation of Murray ,they are "In on it " also see BOB DYLAN on 60 Min . it will scare you.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Inhalib on February 05, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
I agree with those who say that we maybe should start from the beggining again.. when I became a member of this forum all i had in my head was what i saw in YT and my own doubts based on what I've noticed as "strage/weird" since his supposedly dead... and then when someone started a new post saying something that another member already said, some members added his/her commnents until someone said "there's another thread about this".
I believe that maybe we need to start to review what we and other thougth about some topics.. our mind is different than 6 months ago.. and maybe is not a good idea but.. what if we ask to the admins to open a new section on this board.. for example:
Reviewing our conclusions
- the O2 conference
- the 25 /6
- the pictures
- the interviews
- Contradicting news
- the videos
- The supposed MJ messengers (because some people believes in this persons or at least in some of the statements they have made)
- etc etc etc

And, of course, we must be sure to participate with new stuffs that came to our mind or remarking the things we truly believe that can not be left apart if we are reviweing all from the begining, as well as we must left apart those things that has been prooved to be wrong the way we thought they were.

Well, it's just and idea.
Lots of L.O.V.E!!
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Loes on February 05, 2010, 07:23:04 PM
I read all of your posts and they are quite interesting.
I will keep it short (my english ...  :roll: ), but I once said that finding the truth is so difficult, because we only have the internet. We are "little detectives" but not profesionals. We do very well I think with finding so much clues, but it's just impossible to dig as deep as we want to.

To really find the truth ore come very close to it, we should have to go undercover and find ourselves jobs at TMZ, UCLA, LAPD etc. Ore we should collect money to hire to best private investigator on earth to find the truth.
Well this is unfortunately not realistic, so we just need to go on like we've done so far and keep the faith that he's alive.

For me the hoax started at the beginning of 2009 when the media told us that Michael was very sick (the whealchair) and all the negative stories, until we saw him perform, strong as ever. How can somebody who was a total wrack be very healthy a few months later?
IMO he never was sick, but we had to think he was.

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2ebaamu.jpg)
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: mykidsmum on February 05, 2010, 07:41:09 PM
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

Is MJ THAT smart or are we (and I include myself here) just really dense? LOL!

I know we have hoax vids, and "informers"..some of which I trust and others i totally dont, but seriously, why havent we figured out what is going on? Not just with the death, but with blonde lady, the memorial, the 911 call and where it came from, the autopsies,the funeral, the lengths of time in between each event, the lies, the weird sayings from family members etc? Should I go on? We all have our beliefs on certain things but we have no REAL proof of anything....Was MJ the blonde lady? I think so, but we dont know for sure do we?

I feel like we've been given more then enough clues and hints but yet we are at a standstill. Are we overlooking the obvious? Have we missed something completely? Do we need to start over and look at every thing with a microscope again?  


AAAAHHHHH!!!!
because you keep locking posts that people work hard on to try to get the truth out!  This is a glorified fan site, not an investigative site, and until you give up the power struggle, there won't be any connections made with any new information because it's locked.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Inhalib on February 05, 2010, 08:01:37 PM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

Is MJ THAT smart or are we (and I include myself here) just really dense? LOL!

I know we have hoax vids, and "informers"..some of which I trust and others i totally dont, but seriously, why havent we figured out what is going on? Not just with the death, but with blonde lady, the memorial, the 911 call and where it came from, the autopsies,the funeral, the lengths of time in between each event, the lies, the weird sayings from family members etc? Should I go on? We all have our beliefs on certain things but we have no REAL proof of anything....Was MJ the blonde lady? I think so, but we dont know for sure do we?

I feel like we've been given more then enough clues and hints but yet we are at a standstill. Are we overlooking the obvious? Have we missed something completely? Do we need to start over and look at every thing with a microscope again?  


AAAAHHHHH!!!!
because you keep locking posts that people work hard on to try to get the truth out!  This is a glorified fan site, not an investigative site, and until you give up the power struggle, there won't be any connections made with any new information because it's locked.
Ehmm this forum is a death hoax investigator forum as far as I can see.. yes I agree that some post are closed and excepting the ones of the so called non-believers that make some people to loose faith, I do believe that non post should be closed.. we all can decide wich post to look and wich don't, but there's no need to say it the way you did IMO :S

lots of L.O.V.E
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: mjboogie on February 06, 2010, 07:49:48 AM
You are quite right. I do feel that lAPD are highly corrupt and could care less in this investigation. :(
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Jacksonology on February 08, 2010, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: "Liberian Girl Heehee"
Maybe it's just not time yet for us to figure this out.

What I mean is that we have no hard evidence that he is alive, no more than we have hard evidence that he is dead.  If he is alive, and I believe that he is, as he said..."I will come back in my own time."  If we go ahead and figure this out, where does that leave Michael, assuming his time to return is not ready?

We have gotten sidetracked and side trolled over the last 7 months and what seems like real clues can get lost amid the chatter and naysayers.

All I know is that when you review the strong clues and wierd stuff that has taken place over the last 7 months, things surrounding the events of June 25th and the  "death" of Michael Jackson just don't add up.  When I get discouraged or anxious about wth happened, I think back to the clues that stand out the most and I keep the faith.

For me the clues that stand out the most are:
1. All the strange things relating to the O2 concert, including the March press conference and concepts such as Light Man, costumes, special effects not being ready for London opening.
2. Dr. Murray's actions on the day of and since.
3. The ambulance photo and Ben's comments about the day and the other day and his     prior friendship with MJ.
4. Jermaine's press conference announcing MJ "death" instead of a doctor.
5. The 7 COD's with no signatures.
6. The closing down of part of LAX that day.
7. Everything about the Memorial Service, including painS instead of pain.
8. The Liberian Girl picture.
9. The time between the Memorial Service and the Burial.
10. The Burial.
11.The dancers as ushers and the picture of them all surrounding Michael's picture.
12.Strange comments, behaviors, tweets of the family, especially Joe, and also KO.
13.The very strange child support hearing with CM and the issue of the judge being retired.
14.The leaks of songs never recorded before.
15. Everything about TII that points to the production of a movie and not a concert.
16. Garbage and trash cans everywhere.

I am sure I can think of at least a few more, but my brain hurts...so feel free to add to the list!
Thank you for sharing this. Lately, i have been contemplating wither  he is alive or dead. trying to think of EVERY LITTLE FIND and Clue. but when i read posts like yours im encouraged again and motivated  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Jacksonology on February 08, 2010, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: "Inhalib"
I agree with those who say that we maybe should start from the beggining again.. when I became a member of this forum all i had in my head was what i saw in YT and my own doubts based on what I've noticed as "strage/weird" since his supposedly dead... and then when someone started a new post saying something that another member already said, some members added his/her commnents until someone said "there's another thread about this".
I believe that maybe we need to start to review what we and other thougth about some topics.. our mind is different than 6 months ago.. and maybe is not a good idea but.. what if we ask to the admins to open a new section on this board.. for example:
Reviewing our conclusions
- the O2 conference
- the 25 /6
- the pictures
- the interviews
- Contradicting news
- the videos
- The supposed MJ messengers (because some people believes in this persons or at least in some of the statements they have made)
- etc etc etc

And, of course, we must be sure to participate with new stuffs that came to our mind or remarking the things we truly believe that can not be left apart if we are reviweing all from the begining, as well as we must left apart those things that has been prooved to be wrong the way we thought they were.

Well, it's just and idea.
Lots of L.O.V.E!!
i think that's what the Hoax Recaps is for. i think that each post should be 'reviewed and approved because some of these posts are threads are BOGUS and are double posts... more stuff to knock us off track and get us confused.
Title: Re: Why can't we figure this out???
Post by: Jacksonology on February 08, 2010, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: "Grenat"
Quote
For me the clues that stand out the most are:
1. All the strange things relating to the O2 concert, including the March press conference and concepts such as Light Man, costumes, special effects not being ready for London opening.
2. Dr. Murray's actions on the day of and since.
3. The ambulance photo and Ben's comments about the day and the other day and his prior friendship with MJ.
4. Jermaine's press conference announcing MJ "death" instead of a doctor.
5. The 7 COD's with no signatures.
6. The closing down of part of LAX that day.
7. Everything about the Memorial Service, including painS instead of pain.
8. The Liberian Girl picture.
9. The time between the Memorial Service and the Burial.
10. The Burial.
11.The dancers as ushers and the picture of them all surrounding Michael's picture.
12.Strange comments, behaviors, tweets of the family, especially Joe, and also KO.
13.The very strange child support hearing with CM and the issue of the judge being retired.
14.The leaks of songs never recorded before.
15. Everything about TII that points to the production of a movie and not a concert.
16. Garbage and trash cans everywhere.

I agree mostly with all the points you cited.
I would add that Conrad Murray is a whole mystery himself.
This is not just his behavior that day,25th of June that is disturbing.
He has many things that are just strange around that man :
He has multiples names and several birthdays..His wife is a doctor too.
We have not pictures or hearings of him prior to 2009
The fact that he disapeared the day Michael "died"
The fact that paps doesn't seems to be able to find him/don't search him,even tough he is the most responsible for the biggest drama of 2009(or at least one of the biggest)
The fact that LAPD doesn't seem to be really quick to investigate on him at all.
The conflicting stories about his hiring( Did Michael hire him or AEG did)
The fact he was not licensed to practise either in California or London...

I could get on and on...and I did only focus on one person that is weird in this whole story..there is no end to weird happening and unbelievables things surrounding the death of Michael..that's too much
The problem is that yes,we look too much maybe into everything,
We are being distracted by useless drama and fights among the members,
there are trolls popping out everywhere,claiming to be Michael or someone close to him.
We should unite at one and let everyone have his/her part to search everything we can,with a rational look about this.
We came here to know the truth surrounding Michael's death, and if he hoaxed his death, what is he trying to tell us,right ?Not to fight with anyone and cause useless drama...
We shouldn't get distracted of this mission.
Amen.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal