Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => June 25, 2009 => The Ambulance => Topic started by: lisap27 on January 27, 2010, 04:21:59 PM
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sorry about this guys, i know its been debunked as fake by some an stuff but its playing on my mind so i have to mention it.. i know its old ground now.. but it gets to me so..
if you look where i've put the single arrow the is discolouration on the face, like a purple colour, this indicates death, seen it a few times in my old job, and its to far out to be hair..
also the two arrows, why does it appear to have blood in the tube? or something red if you prefer no to call it blood.. there should be stuff going in not coming out!!
[attachment=0:2fjrymmo]mamb.jpg[/attachment:2fjrymmo]
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if you look where i've put the single arrow the is discolouration on the face, like a purple colour, this indicates death, seen it a few times in my old job, and its to far out to be hair..
It's the reflexion of the red car.
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sorry about this guys, i know its been debunked as fake by some an stuff but its playing on my mind so i have to mention it.. i know its old ground now.. but it gets to me so..
if you look where i've put the single arrow the is discolouration on the face, like a purple colour, this indicates death, seen it a few times in my old job, and its to far out to be hair..
also the two arrows, why does it appear to have blood in the tube? or something red if you prefer no to call it blood.. there should be stuff going in not coming out!!
[attachment=0:3q14hzeg]mamb.jpg[/attachment:3q14hzeg]
I've noticed just another thing...
The point where you put the first single arrow on....it just looks like they forgot something by editing it on Photoshop :) See the differences of the sharpening? The skin nex to this oxygen mask looks more blurry like the rest of the face...this proves again that they put Michaels Face on this picture?
And of course the skin color looks a bit different....
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The more is see this picture the more i get a horrific feeling it may be real. :cry:
Look at the nose.. the tip is missing, or its squashed... this matches up with what some people have said.
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The more is see this picture the more i get a horrific feeling it may be real. :cry:
Look at the nose.. the tip is missing, or its squashed... this matches up with what some people have said.
Hm, Maybe it's the shadow?
Who even said that Michael had/has an Prostheis of his nose tip? Isn't this just a real dumb rumor?
And the paramedics said he looked like an old, frail guy....um sorry, but for me he looks like Michael Jackson!
My Boyfriend is a non believer and a Photoshop Crack and even he said this Amb-Pic looks like a Fake!
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@Kirsche.. sometimes i have really down days and its like i try and give myself closure and let go.
Im 50/50 with this.. its a hoax of some sort. Either a death hoax or a murder cover up.
So i am not sure.. i am just very open minded about the whole thing. :D
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i don't know why i can't let this picture go.. its niggleing away at me and i don't know what it is!! its ok saying its fake and photoshopped!!
but who knows for sure.. thats why i keep going on about it.. i'm actually annoying myself with it.. :roll:
must just be on my off days it pops back up.. :(
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The more is see this picture the more i get a horrific feeling it may be real. :cry:
Look at the nose.. the tip is missing, or its squashed... this matches up with what some people have said.
Dont worry I think it is a shadow making it look like part of his nose is not there and he does not look like that picture in tii so it does not add up. or make sense
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@DancingTheDream and LisaP27
I totally understand what you mean. I definitely have up and down days and I do go back and look at old "evidence". I'm keeping an open mind too because we're not sure of anything really. However I'd like to point out a few things concerning this picture. I've seen it in different places, videos, here on the forum, news sites and it definitely looks like Michael's frowning. I don't know but would someone, who they claim was already dead when they got there, be able to frown? That would be quite strange... :shock: Then there's the hair. I've heard that Michael was almost bald appart from "peach fuss" and then there are others that claim he wasn't bald and that the curls in TII are his real hair. Ok, so if he was almost bald would he wear the wig in bed and would it also stay on all the way to the hospital? So thst would mean that either the story's fake or the picture or maybe both are fake. And I do agree that it doesn't look like Michael in TII at all. These are just my thoughts so I'm not saying for sure it's a fake but these things got me wondering...
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well if he wanted to die like elvis,didnt elvis look extremely young in his "last" pic in the coffin?? maybe its a proof that MJ IS ALIVE!! heehee :D :D
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It's blood. The IV backflowed.
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It's blood. The IV backflowed.
it does look like backflow. What about the discoloration at the sideburns. To me it looks like a huge vein...someone said here that it was the reflection from the red car..i dont think so. The more i look at this picture..the more I get the chills! :(
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It's blood. The IV backflowed.
Oh, and does it happen (backflow) even when the medication-bag (I don't know the right english word, I'm sorry) is over the body's patient level, with a heart wich is not "working" at all (just by CPR)?
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The more is see this picture the more i get a horrific feeling it may be real. :cry:
Look at the nose.. the tip is missing, or its squashed... this matches up with what some people have said.
I hate to say this, but the tip is there. If you tilt your head to the side, you will notice that the part that seems missing is actually the paramedic's hand casting a shadow over the nose. Is there a possibility to photoshop a shadow? Im not sure if that can be done :?
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i shouldnt have clicked on this thread...Im having a bad day today :( ...the more i look at this pic the more real it looks...oh the blood! oh the purple im crying right now. I need to take a break from this investigation and get my head clear. I feeling sick to my stomach studying this picture especially if its real :( oh poor michael my baby look what the gov. did to you!
I gotta go i will be back tomoro i cant continue after this. I need to look at interviews and funny moments with MJ and get my spirits back up...I LOVE YOU ALL STAY STRONG BECAUSE I CANT :( ...seee you soon :)
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It's blood. The IV backflowed.
What causes "backflow?"
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It's blood. The IV backflowed.
What causes "backflow?"
i think someone said if the heart is not pumping causes backflow...
like MJs heart is not beating... OUCH that hurt so much to say...but i am starting to believe that this photo is real
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It's blood. The IV backflowed.
What causes "backflow?"
i think someone said if the heart is not pumping causes backflow...
like MJs heart is not beating... OUCH that hurt so much to say...but i am starting to believe that this photo is real
I was afraid of that. Ugh, I really don't like looking at this photo..the more I look, the more real it seems. :(
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Why people acting all sad over this photo? The person that posted this really got people upset. Why you on this site if you think like that not to be mean or anything? I'm sorry but I still believe it's an old photo from back in the 90's. So what if there's a dark mark on his face. His skin was basically transparent from what people have said so the slightest thing could probably bruise MJ's skin. Also he still had part of his body that still had dark pigmentation when he had a dark complexion. Maybe some of the medical equipment they were using caused the area to bruise too or maybe it's just the way the photo looks. I've seen versions of this photo where he actually looks lighter with no discoloration. Also it was said that his nose look flat well it was fuller and wider back then. Actually the photo doesn't match what was said because first of all he don't look like an old man and second of all he look exactly like himself which contradicts the report that they couldn't tell who he was. When you look at him here can you not tell it's MJ? :?:
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Why people acting all sad over this photo? The person that posted this really got people upset. Why you on this site if you think like that not to be mean or anything? I'm sorry but I still believe it's an old photo from back in the 90's. So what if there's a dark mark on his face. His skin was basically transparent from what people have said so the slightest thing could probably bruise MJ's skin. Also he still had part of his body that still had dark pigmentation when he had a dark complexion. Maybe some of the medical equipment they were using caused the area to bruise too or maybe it's just the way the photo looks. I've seen versions of this photo where he actually looks lighter with no discoloration. Also it was said that his nose look flat well it was fuller and wider back then. Actually the photo doesn't match what was said because first of all he don't look like an old man and second of all he look exactly like himself which contradicts the report that they couldn't tell who he was. When you look at him here can you not tell it's MJ? :?:
I'm not sad. I'm not upset. I'm simply doing as I always do: seeking the TRUTH. What we believe and what is true are not necessarily the same thing. For me personally, I am not 100% convinced MJ is alive. Nor am I 100% convinced he is dead. Until that is satisfactorily proven to me, one way or the other, I continue with whatever investigations I can. 8-)
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Why people acting all sad over this photo? The person that posted this really got people upset. Why you on this site if you think like that not to be mean or anything? I'm sorry but I still believe it's an old photo from back in the 90's. So what if there's a dark mark on his face. His skin was basically transparent from what people have said so the slightest thing could probably bruise MJ's skin. Also he still had part of his body that still had dark pigmentation when he had a dark complexion. Maybe some of the medical equipment they were using caused the area to bruise too or maybe it's just the way the photo looks. I've seen versions of this photo where he actually looks lighter with no discoloration. Also it was said that his nose look flat well it was fuller and wider back then. Actually the photo doesn't match what was said because first of all he don't look like an old man and second of all he look exactly like himself which contradicts the report that they couldn't tell who he was. When you look at him here can you not tell it's MJ? :?:
ok i think your first comment is a little rude to start off with, my intention is not to upset people but to try and figure things out like everyone else.. things like the photo have been pushed aside due to some peoples opinions, i personally can not get over things so quickly, and we team up to find out the reasons for certain things..
i am sorry if this thread has upset people, but it hurts me to thats why i can't let it go till we find the truth.. :cry:
hope i've not offended anyone.. :roll:
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Don't be sorry Lisap27...we're here to find the truth. ;) If some of you only want to consider things pointing towards MJ being alive then that's your prerogative, but please don't question the motives of others who want to investigate every detail and make them feel bad.
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Don't be sorry Lisap27...we're here to find the truth. ;) If some of you only want to consider things pointing towards MJ being alive then that's your prerogative, but please don't question the motives of others who want to investigate every detail and make them feel bad.
HUGE 2nd!!!
Some on here are looking for the TRUTH and will appreciate any questions and information they're presented with.
Others just want to believe that the wigs Michael wore were his real hair and then see him pop up singing and dancing like nothing happened. :lol:
I do have a serious question though:
Where is this IV at that the tube is right next to his face? :?
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thanks guys.. :)
the IV looks like its going into the top of his arm or heart???? or arm pit by looking at where the plaster is holding it in place!! :shock:
but didn't they say it had to go in the back of his knee.. or was that just Dr Klein that said that.. :?
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
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@Lisap27 I'm not offended, sad nor upset, and you shouldn't be sorry, never let people makes you feel like that. Actually, I don't like things quickly/subjective/no evidence debunked either. We are seeking the truth, whatever the outcome remember? What you are asking is very valid, and I'm sure there are others with those same doubts. Let's the discussion continue :D
@Virgo75 I think the IV it's in his neck.
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Backflow most commonly occurs when the IV bag is below the IV site. This is not always the cause of backflow, though. I don't know where the IV bag is positioned there, but the tubing is below the site, so it can definitely happen. The other thing I've found is that EJs seem to "bleed more" than the arms. I think it's just because the vein is very straight and usually huge as opposed to veins in the arms.
But the IV is placed in a vein in his neck called an EJ (external juglar). It's not a common IV placement, but in a cardiac arrest, it's appropriate. You just don't want to go sticking people in the neck with an IV who are talking to you.
And I wasn't going to post this before, but because there is still some confusion about what things are in the picture, I had made this video a few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8)
I tried to stay totally unbiased, and I'm not trying to tell you that he is dead, but because there are still so many questions about the picture, I really wanted to clarify, objectively, what you're seeing.
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
Which cable do you mean?
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
Which cable do you mean?
That with "blood" inside. Take a look at that, and the one with the chamber picture. I was thinking 7 pictures mixed, but that is too many.. Maybe three total.
That pointy > also.. What the hell is that?
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ad7pzQ4_694/0.jpg)
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ah okay...so they mixed the Chamber Picture with an 90's picture and an ambulance picture, did I get you right?
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ah okay...so they mixed the Chamber Picture with an 90's picture and an ambulance picture, did I get you right?
Could be. But you clearly see that it's the same equipment used in ambulance.. How is it possible otherwise?
I am also thinking about his "collapse" at the concert in 2001.
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@LadyMedic
interesting video, would all this stuff be done on a already dead person??? in your opinion.. :shock:
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Backflow most commonly occurs when the IV bag is below the IV site. This is not always the cause of backflow, though. I don't know where the IV bag is positioned there, but the tubing is below the site, so it can definitely happen. The other thing I've found is that EJs seem to "bleed more" than the arms. I think it's just because the vein is very straight and usually huge as opposed to veins in the arms.
But the IV is placed in a vein in his neck called an EJ (external juglar). It's not a common IV placement, but in a cardiac arrest, it's appropriate. You just don't want to go sticking people in the neck with an IV who are talking to you.
And I wasn't going to post this before, but because there is still some confusion about what things are in the picture, I had made this video a few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8)
I tried to stay totally unbiased, and I'm not trying to tell you that he is dead, but because there are still so many questions about the picture, I really wanted to clarify, objectively, what you're seeing.
Thank you very much for the detailed information. So I guess we can rule out MJ staging the photo then, since the tube was actually in his trachea, and they put the IV in his jugular which would mean he'd have to be unconscious, right? I guess we'll have to hope it was a double, or else some extremely impressive photoshopping, but the reflection of the red car makes me think that's not very likely.
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
Which cable do you mean?
That with "blood" inside. Take a look at that, and the one with the chamber picture. I was thinking 7 pictures mixed, but that is too many.. Maybe three total.
That pointy > also.. What the hell is that?
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ad7pzQ4_694/0.jpg)
yes i have seen this and i totally agree. the question is now, why, was it mike and his photographer friend doing it or the photographer just trying to m?ke a buck so he can start med school.
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Just thought I'd share this with you all to lighten up the mood.
My 3 year old daughter Isobel is a big little MJ fan and a few moments ago she caught me looking at the photo. She doesn't pronounce his name correctly but this is phonetically what she said. "Is that Mikent Jacksent Mommy? I said "Yes, baby, but he is asleep". She said "Ok but I like his eyebrouts! (referring to his eyebrows).
Yup, I like his eyebrouts too, and his eyes, and his lips and so on and so on..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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@LadyMedic
interesting video, would all this stuff be done on a already dead person??? in your opinion.. :shock:
It depends on what you mean by already dead. I would do all of this only if the person was already dead. I wouldn't do it if the person had been dead for days or hours and they had signs incompatible with life.
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@LadyMedic
interesting video, would all this stuff be done on a already dead person??? in your opinion.. :shock:
It depends on what you mean by already dead. I would do all of this only if the person was already dead. I wouldn't do it if the person had been dead for days or hours and they had signs incompatible with life.
yeh thats the answer i was looking for.. cos speculation has it that Michael was dead already, so i was just seeing if you would do such things on someone who was already dead..
so what do you make of it all then? if you don't mind me asking.. do you think they could have saved his life through this? or not likely, just a chance they could have, thats why they go through these steps?? :shock:
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Backflow most commonly occurs when the IV bag is below the IV site. This is not always the cause of backflow, though. I don't know where the IV bag is positioned there, but the tubing is below the site, so it can definitely happen. The other thing I've found is that EJs seem to "bleed more" than the arms. I think it's just because the vein is very straight and usually huge as opposed to veins in the arms.
But the IV is placed in a vein in his neck called an EJ (external jugular). It's not a common IV placement, but in a cardiac arrest, it's appropriate. You just don't want to go sticking people in the neck with an IV who are talking to you.
And I wasn't going to post this before, but because there is still some confusion about what things are in the picture, I had made this video a few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8)
I tried to stay totally unbiased, and I'm not trying to tell you that he is dead, but because there are still so many questions about the picture, I really wanted to clarify, objectively, what you're seeing.
Very clear and interesting video indeed, thanks for sharing.
So, I'm not saying that he's Michael nor the pic is a real one, but in conclusion about the "content" of the pic, we have a common scenario inside an ambulance with a patient who has had a cardiac arrest. The picture shows a real ambulance inside, with real & currently-used medical stuff. There is a real patient, being correctly/properly assisted by real paramedics. Nothing weird/wrong with the way they are using the medical stuff.
On the other hand, such procedures are not a common practice on a patient who has been "death" or without vital signs for some time.
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Backflow most commonly occurs when the IV bag is below the IV site. This is not always the cause of backflow, though. I don't know where the IV bag is positioned there, but the tubing is below the site, so it can definitely happen. The other thing I've found is that EJs seem to "bleed more" than the arms. I think it's just because the vein is very straight and usually huge as opposed to veins in the arms.
But the IV is placed in a vein in his neck called an EJ (external jugular). It's not a common IV placement, but in a cardiac arrest, it's appropriate. You just don't want to go sticking people in the neck with an IV who are talking to you.
And I wasn't going to post this before, but because there is still some confusion about what things are in the picture, I had made this video a few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1b2jbipg8)
I tried to stay totally unbiased, and I'm not trying to tell you that he is dead, but because there are still so many questions about the picture, I really wanted to clarify, objectively, what you're seeing.
Very clear and interesting video indeed, thanks for sharing.
So, I'm not saying that he's Michael nor the pic is a real one, but in conclusion about the "content" of the pic, we have a common scenario inside an ambulance with a patient who has had a cardiac arrest. The picture shows a real ambulance inside, with real & currently-used medical stuff. There is a real patient, being correctly/properly assisted by real paramedics. Nothing weird/wrong with the way they are using the medical stuff.
On the other hand, such procedures are not a common practice on a patient who has been "death" or without vital signs for some time.
Correct. We would not continue or begin resucitative efforts if the patient was "very" dead. I'm sure every medic could agree that we've probably worked someone who has had some rigor. The theory is "they're not dead until they're warm and dead". So if they were found in a car, I see no lividity or obvious rigor, and we suspect they haven't been there long, we'll work them. However, I may find when I go to intubate that the jaw has some rigor. It seems to be the most common place for rigor to actually start. And if we've already begun CPR, we'll continue. You know the person is not going to make it, but you still try. I know the majority of patients I do CPR on are not going to make it. Even if they code right in front of me. Surival rates with CPR are not high, but there wouldn't be any surival rates if there was no CPR. So I can walk into a scene and know that the person is dead. I know that they are not going to make it. But that does not mean that I don't try.
Another thing is when you get ROSC (return of spontaneous circulation meaning the patient has pulses again) on a cardiac arrest, it can be a good sign, or a false sign. Cardiac arrests that are caused by heart attacks will benefit from ROSC because that may be enough time to cath them, remove the blockage, and keep the heart going. In other cases, ROSC could be obtained because I've pushed 8mg of Epi (epinephrine). There's a joke that if you give a steak enough epi it'll have a pulse. So while the patient does have a pulse, the body is still not going to be able to continue circulating on its own.
And the final thing I wanted to bring up is what people say about his skin color. You are more than welcome to believe whatever you want about the way he looks. But as a fact, in my experience, I have seen people 2 hours dead with CPR having been performed, and they have more color than I do. Not everyone who is dead is pale. You would be very, very suprised.
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Well, Mj on pic is not MJ from TII.. Do we need more evidences?? His nose, his colour, his weight: He looked very thin last year...I do not give credit to that picture, and very much doubt that it is him and not a double
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if you look where i've put the single arrow the is discolouration on the face, like a purple colour, this indicates death, seen it a few times in my old job, and its to far out to be hair..
Where does this purple discoloration come from? I mean, on dead people. I'm just curious.
Anyway... What I have to say is... We all know MJ is a genius. And if he faked his death, he's even more of a genius. But keeping that in mind, don't you think that he would make sure we really believe he's dead? What I mean is that he wouldn't want a completely fake looking ambulance picture circulating through the world. How would that make sense? And if it wasn't for this photo, we're almost left with nothing. I think maybe even your average joe would start doubting he's dead. This picture is basically all we have. And I don't think we should worry about it too much. If it looks real to you, it does so, because it's supposed to look real. At least, that would make sense if MJ faked his death.
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another thing i noticed aswell about the picture is on his TII he was very skinny and had prominant cheek bones etc..
@LadyMedic
would the face swell to this degree making it look fuller on the picture..
sorry for all the questions.. :oops:
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Just one more doubt: If it was not him in the ambu.. What about all that show with the heli and bodies exchange??
Nothing really makes sense.. :shock: :?:
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Anyway... What I have to say is... We all know MJ is a genius. And if he faked his death, he's even more of a genius. But keeping that in mind, don't you think that he would make sure we really believe he's dead? What I mean is that he wouldn't want a completely fake looking ambulance picture circulating through the world. How would that make sense? And if it wasn't for this photo, we're almost left with nothing. I think maybe even your average joe would start doubting he's dead. This picture is basically all we have. And I don't think we should worry about it too much. If it looks real to you, it does so, because it's supposed to look real. At least, that would make sense if MJ faked his death.
Exactly! ;)
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May be this has been discussed already, but here why I think is fake:
As I understood, Propofol induces respiratoric failure.
If MJ died I find more logic that was for respiratoric failure firstleading to a cardiac arrest.
Also, The pic looks photoshopped to me. Somehow I doubt that the "real" pic would be leaked, honestly.
I doubt any paparazzi would have the "luck" of getting that shot tha day :roll:
The pic is fake, with MJ dead or alive, that pic seems fake 100%.
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i am finding it hard to believe what lady medic said, no disrespect but how do we know she is legit, not sent by a third party to throw us off scent?
i see this vid and i think this makes sense
[youtube:2mlc6q29]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad7pzQ4_694&NR=1[/youtube:2mlc6q29]
[youtube:2mlc6q29]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdTpEUOjO2c&feature=related[/youtube:2mlc6q29]
dont we know that you cant believe everything that people say, even professionals!
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Just one more doubt: If it was not him in the ambu.. What about all that show with the heli and bodies exchange??
Nothing really makes sense.. :shock: :?:
yes, you're right.
Let's say he escaped from the hospital with the Fire alarm as a distraction.
So he had to be in that ambulance to get him in there, right?
And that could also be the reason why he looks like he's frowning?
But then, I still wonder why he looks so different to the Michael Jackson we saw in TII...
Or another possibility:
He was in the ambulance. And Evenstad pretended to make this legendary shot...But like someone said here´, you can't get this clear shot through tinted glass. So they made an Ambulance Pic on the Computer to make it look real.
Michael was brought to the hospital, the firealarm was pulled off and he could escape unnoticed...
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
i think LadyMedic was just pointing out what they was using and explaining to everyone not in the medical field what they where and what for.. i thought it was insightful to be honest!!
she's not broke any laws on pointing out the obvious, its just those with untrained eyes could not see what everything was.. IMO
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why do you think he was in the ambulance?
100 Carolwood has a secret garage
why do you think he was in the ambulance we are believing what they are feeding us, they took their coats off when the ambulance arrived at the hospital?
no shots of mj in the hospital?
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
i think LadyMedic was just pointing out what they was using and explaining to everyone not in the medical field what they where and what for.. i thought it was insightful to be honest!!
she's not broke any laws on pointing out the obvious, its just those with untrained eyes could not see what everything was.. IMO
i am not being disrespectful, well i think it sounds like i am, maybe i am - sorry
but i think it strange, having had dealings with a lot of serious professional people for them to make YT videos
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
i think LadyMedic was just pointing out what they was using and explaining to everyone not in the medical field what they where and what for.. i thought it was insightful to be honest!!
she's not broke any laws on pointing out the obvious, its just those with untrained eyes could not see what everything was.. IMO
i am not being disrespectful, well i think it sounds like i am, maybe i am - sorry
but i think it strange, having had dealings with a lot of serious professional people for them to make YT videos
oh yeh i understand totally.. but when we get a professional opinion on something i see it as a positive.. however sad / honest it may be.. we all have opinions on stuff so were here to share them.. :P even tho we may not like some of them.. :roll:
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i am finding it hard to believe what lady medic said, no disrespect but how do we know she is legit, not sent by a third party to throw us off scent?
i see this vid and i think this makes sense
dont we know that you cant believe everything that people say, even professionals!
Oh gee guys, that's rude and not fair. She is just giving us technic info about medical stuff & procedures. She never said he is dead or alive nor is trying to convince us one way or another. We ask & she kindly replay, you are free to believe her or not. She is spending her free time with us, so can we just be nice, please?.
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
I agree that it's a photoshop job. There are some that can make a picture look better than the original. Don't let your heart be troubled. I keep going back to the medic's comments of how they couldn't tell who he was - in this picture there would be no doubt who the person was. Blessings.
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may be i am being hard headed.
i apologise if that is the case. i truly do not want to upset anyone.
but you believe she is who she is saying she is, in law people always say before they lay an insult - i respectfully ....
so when someone says they are being objective - do you accept it.
she is saying he is dead- dont you think - dont bash me - just asking, but how can you deny what we have seen before.
the photographer is supposed to be at medical school/ how do you know its not him, how do you know that person who could be a doctor is not bull-sh**ing you?
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why do you think he was in the ambulance?
100 Carolwood has a secret garage
why do you think he was in the ambulance we are believing what they are feeding us, they took their coats off when the ambulance arrived at the hospital?
no shots of mj in the hospital?
I was just pointing out one possibility....
this would explain the fire alarm as a distraction, so he could escape without being noticed, you know?
I don't believe anything I was just speculating..
And is it for sure that Carolwood Mansion has a secret garage?
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i am finding it hard to believe what lady medic said, no disrespect but how do we know she is legit, not sent by a third party to throw us off scent?
i see this vid and i think this makes sense
dont we know that you cant believe everything that people say, even professionals!
Oh gee guys, that's rude and not fair. She is just giving us technic info about medical stuff & procedures. She never said he is dead or alive nor is trying to convince us one way or another. We ask & she kindly replay, you are free to believe her or not. She is spending her free time with us, so can we just be nice, please?.
okay beat me up, maybe be i play devils advocate to much, may be, but this is my gut feeling.
i dont think i am rude and i have apologised if anyone thinks that, it is not my intention, but i question it.
i am a lawyer, i question things all the time.
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why do you think he was in the ambulance?
100 Carolwood has a secret garage
why do you think he was in the ambulance we are believing what they are feeding us, they took their coats off when the ambulance arrived at the hospital?
no shots of mj in the hospital?
I was just pointing out one possibility....
this would explain the fire alarm as a distraction, so he could escape without being noticed, you know?
I don't believe anything I was just speculating..
And is it for sure that Carolwood Mansion has a secret garage?
please look at my thread on "the Crime Scene" there is a photo too, i feel scared and passionate - the worst combination, so forgive me - may be i am in a panic
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look sorry i will change threads - sorry if i have upset anyone, i did not mean to
speak to you guys soon on another thread
peace and happiness to all.
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@Arabian Nights.
Lady Medic never said she was a doctor. She is a Paramedic and does this everyday and knows what she is talking about. I was a former nurse, and believe me what she is saying is 100% the truth. The question is...is the person in the picture truly MJ or an impersonator or is the pic photoshopped with MJ's face on it..
Pure and simple.
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why do you think he was in the ambulance?
100 Carolwood has a secret garage
why do you think he was in the ambulance we are believing what they are feeding us, they took their coats off when the ambulance arrived at the hospital?
no shots of mj in the hospital?
I was just pointing out one possibility....
this would explain the fire alarm as a distraction, so he could escape without being noticed, you know?
I don't believe anything I was just speculating..
And is it for sure that Carolwood Mansion has a secret garage?
please look at my thread on "the Crime Scene" there is a photo too, i feel scared and passionate - the worst combination, so forgive me - may be i am in a panic
That's okay, no problem
L.O.V.E. ;)
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just before i disappear to another thread .. and slightly off this thread, when i have had to go under blue lights to accident and emergency, there has been someone from the hospital waiting for me, in the vid's regarding his arrival, are there any doctors waiting to deal with him?
CM would have identified mj at the house, and surely they would have called the hospital to give them a heads up on a celeb emergency, a team of doctors would have been on the door -surely?
what do you think?
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Something that just occured to me. Was there any description was MJ was wearing? For example, PJ's, sweats, etc. I was just over at the CRIME scene thread that arabian nights was speaking of.
Yes the pictures of the bedroom are so neat, it is scary. And if DR M was administering propofol IV, where the hell is it in the picture? I would be knocked over or something..???
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i'm not ready for this
so sorry - if i am being difficult :cry: i don't believe that your gone.
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i've seen that picture before somewhere.. i think its creepy.. don't like it..
nice to think of it like that if he were de*d.. but i still don't like it.. :(
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yikes,,
that picture gave me the heebeejeebees.
Nicely done tho
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
i think LadyMedic was just pointing out what they was using and explaining to everyone not in the medical field what they where and what for.. i thought it was insightful to be honest!!
she's not broke any laws on pointing out the obvious, its just those with untrained eyes could not see what everything was.. IMO
If you were referring to me, I'm definitely not a doctor. I'm a paramedic. And even if I was a doctor, I absolutely could do that. As a paramedic, I can do that. As lisap27 said, I'm not breaking any laws.
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i am finding it hard to believe what lady medic said, no disrespect but how do we know she is legit, not sent by a third party to throw us off scent?
i see this vid and i think this makes sense
[youtube:2p6q0oc0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad7pzQ4_694&NR=1[/youtube:2p6q0oc0]
[youtube:2p6q0oc0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdTpEUOjO2c&feature=related[/youtube:2p6q0oc0]
dont we know that you cant believe everything that people say, even professionals!
Arabian nights, that was an interesting video that you made. Wish that I had that talent. Is it possible for you to do the same kind of video with MJ's latest pictures. I am curious and :| would just like to see the difference.
Thanks!
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isn't this the photo that was shopped for the YT photo/vid of mj in the open casket?
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i am finding it hard to believe what lady medic said, no disrespect but how do we know she is legit, not sent by a third party to throw us off scent?
i see this vid and i think this makes sense
[youtube:3v5x5axh]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad7pzQ4_694&NR=1[/youtube:3v5x5axh]
[youtube:3v5x5axh]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdTpEUOjO2c&feature=related[/youtube:3v5x5axh]
dont we know that you cant believe everything that people say, even professionals!
Arabian nights, that was an interesting video that you made. Wish that I had that talent. Is it possible for you to do the same kind of video with MJ's latest pictures. I am curious and :| would just like to see the difference.
Thanks!
i did not make the YT vid's
x
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
i think LadyMedic was just pointing out what they was using and explaining to everyone not in the medical field what they where and what for.. i thought it was insightful to be honest!!
she's not broke any laws on pointing out the obvious, its just those with untrained eyes could not see what everything was.. IMO
If you were referring to me, I'm definitely not a doctor. I'm a paramedic. And even if I was a doctor, I absolutely could do that. As a paramedic, I can do that. As lisap27 said, I'm not breaking any laws.
i did not say you were breaking any laws - i did not say that
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isn't this the photo that was shopped for the YT photo/vid of mj in the open casket?
yep.. :roll:
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i think this was a picture of mike at james browns funeral
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and this is the one in the open casket
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trust in yourselves guys -
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they shop a picture of a living mj and put him in a casket
they can shop him and put him in an ambulance, he may never have been in the ambulance at that time on that day.
he has been rushed to hospital before, see my thread on his previous hospital emergencies, the hosptial was in action then not like on the 25/06/09
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this is my fav photo of mike i think taken on the same day, as the shopped photo - but he may have worn the jacket on another occasion (and not for the casket photo)
enjoy mr gorg
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some sick person put mike in a casket, when he was living
i think some sick person put him in the ambulance photo
i hope he is alive
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gosh i am passionate tonight,
to me i believe what i have just posted about the james brown funeral pic and the shopped casket pic, i believe my own eyes,
i thus see no reason to doubt my reasoning with regard to the ambulance photo, and the vid's and photo's showing the era of the shopped photo, that was not the look of the TII pics, that ambulance photo was not he mike we saw at the o2 or staples centre.
i believe my eyes
am i wrong, i know that i am too passionate about this, sorry for that.
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gosh i am passionate tonight,
to me i believe what i have just posted about the james brown funeral pic and the shopped casket pic, i believe my own eyes,
i thus see no reason to doubt my reasoning with regard to the ambulance photo, and the vid's and photo's showing the era of the shopped photo, that was not the look of the TII pics, that ambulance photo was not he mike we saw at the o2 or staples centre.
i believe my eyes
am i wrong, i know that i am too passionate about this, sorry for that.
hey.. this was the point of the topic.. we need everyones view on everything.. team work thats what its all about.. :)
although the casket picture looks photoshopped more so to me then the ambulance one.. i think the casket one is obvious!! IMO
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this is a really good thread, to draw so much passion eh?
the guy who took the photo was a mate of mikes or they understood each other,
he must have a lot of unpublished photo's of mike in his collection, this ambulance photo could be one or it could just be from a source we dont have access to. the person who probably did the casket pic probably used the internet and did not have access to the vault of photos that professional photographers and the media have.
so that is why it was obvious - it still took me time to find it.
but good thread, it really opens it up again. the last few days i have been so positive. i even saw this autopsy pic and i looked at it a few times but no - i could not see it being mj.
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@Ladymedic
I'd still like to hear your opinion about the "frowning" surely this is not possible when someone's dead or is it?
Or am I the only one who thinks it's obvious that the patient in that ambulance is frowning? :?
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@Ladymedic
I'd still like to hear your opinion about the "frowning" surely this is not possible when someone's dead or is it?
Or am I the only one who thinks it's obvious that the patient in that ambulance is frowning? :?
i see what you mean the inner part of this eyebrows seem depressed
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gosh i am passionate tonight,
to me i believe what i have just posted about the james brown funeral pic and the shopped casket pic, i believe my own eyes,
i thus see no reason to doubt my reasoning with regard to the ambulance photo, and the vid's and photo's showing the era of the shopped photo, that was not the look of the TII pics, that ambulance photo was not he mike we saw at the o2 or staples centre.
i believe my eyes
am i wrong, i know that i am too passionate about this, sorry for that.
Sorry, I got so excited that I didn't look at the yt logo. Anyway, I've seen this pic. of MJ photoshopped in the casket before, which isn't a good pic. because of the hair in the face and the shades. It would be nice to have proof to show people that there is no way that this is MJ and I believe that a pic. comparrison would prove that to many people and not just here on this site! If anyone here knows how to do this, it would be great. :P
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well we need the photo and it is difficult to locate pic's on web you have seen before, let alone specific ones.
when i was doing my thread for dangerous years hospital emergency i could not find one still of him - why not - he was taken from the NY HSO centre, and there was loads of media. there was video footage. no stills. well i could not find them, and dont have that much time to look.
i think you have to just make an educated conclusion,but those guys who do the hoax vids will probably do more, we should put in a request?
but when i have spoken to non believers they look a little funny, then see what i say, but its almost that they would believe anything people say about mike - all the media *rap but at the same time will say they love his music. people are people
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Why people acting all sad over this photo? The person that posted this really got people upset. Why you on this site if you think like that not to be mean or anything? I'm sorry but I still believe it's an old photo from back in the 90's. So what if there's a dark mark on his face. His skin was basically transparent from what people have said so the slightest thing could probably bruise MJ's skin. Also he still had part of his body that still had dark pigmentation when he had a dark complexion. Maybe some of the medical equipment they were using caused the area to bruise too or maybe it's just the way the photo looks. I've seen versions of this photo where he actually looks lighter with no discoloration. Also it was said that his nose look flat well it was fuller and wider back then. Actually the photo doesn't match what was said because first of all he don't look like an old man and second of all he look exactly like himself which contradicts the report that they couldn't tell who he was. When you look at him here can you not tell it's MJ? :?:
ok i think your first comment is a little rude to start off with, my intention is not to upset people but to try and figure things out like everyone else.. things like the photo have been pushed aside due to some peoples opinions, i personally can not get over things so quickly, and we team up to find out the reasons for certain things..
i am sorry if this thread has upset people, but it hurts me to thats why i can't let it go till we find the truth.. :cry:
hope i've not offended anyone.. :roll:
Well if you think my comment is rude I can't help it that you feel that way. I'm just being honest about how I feel. I'm not going to apologize or feel bad about what I said. I'm not trying to pick a fight either. Sometimes you have to have tough skin and if someone disagree with you or don't like what you say that's a part of life. You can't be so sensitive about things. That's not the point of this site. Just like you express your opinion I am free to express my opinion. I know everyone is trying to find the truth. It's all good. :) That's nice though that you said sorry that you don't want to be offensive I give you props for that. So don't take things so personal I don't even know you like that.
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Could someone who thinks the pic was faked please explain to me how they could photoshop the car reflection (of the red car we know was parked there at the time) onto this ambulance pic? Is this possible? Seems like it would take a lot of foresight. I mean it's not like they knew there was going to be a tour bus filming the ambulance backing out so we could see everything in the street. I don't know, this theory's not working for me. With everything our helpful paramedic member had to say, if it wasn't really MJ, I think a double makes more sense at this point.
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Could someone who thinks the pic was faked please explain to me how they could photoshop the car reflection (of the red car we know was parked there at the time) onto this ambulance pic? Is this possible? Seems like it would take a lot of foresight. I mean it's not like they knew there was going to be a tour bus filming the ambulance backing out so we could see everything in the street. I don't know, this theory's not working for me. With everything our helpful paramedic member had to say, if it wasn't really MJ, I think a double makes more sense at this point.
There's basically nothing you can't do with Photoshop. :) The reflections would be easy, I guess, using different layers, light textures and stuff.
But I rather believe this picture is somewhat "real". Ever thought Michael might've posed for this picture? It could've been taken and photoshopped days before June 25, just to make the hoax more believeable. I don't think we need to rely on this pic being fake to believe in a hoax.
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Could someone who thinks the pic was faked please explain to me how they could photoshop the car reflection (of the red car we know was parked there at the time) onto this ambulance pic? Is this possible? Seems like it would take a lot of foresight. I mean it's not like they knew there was going to be a tour bus filming the ambulance backing out so we could see everything in the street. I don't know, this theory's not working for me. With everything our helpful paramedic member had to say, if it wasn't really MJ, I think a double makes more sense at this point.
There's basically nothing you can't do with Photoshop. :) The reflections would be easy, I guess, using different layers, light textures and stuff.
But I rather believe this picture is somewhat "real". Ever thought Michael might've posed for this picture? It could've been taken and photoshopped days before June 25, just to make the hoax more believeable. I don't think we need to rely on this pic being fake to believe in a hoax.
That's true.. You can do so much! You just need a background, and a face.. + What you need/want for a good looking picture. But it's fake, look at Page 3, of the pictures I've added.
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this whole thing reminds me of Judge Dread with Sly, do you remember he has a photo of his family around him and him as a boy in the middle?
when they try to investigate the picture to find out his family history, they find that the background and the foreground are all fake.
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My 3 year old daughter Isobel is a big little MJ fan and a few moments ago she caught me looking at the photo. She doesn't pronounce his name correctly but this is phonetically what she said. "Is that Mikent Jacksent Mommy? I said "Yes, baby, but he is asleep". She said "Ok but I like his eyebrouts! (referring to his eyebrows).
Haai Kuki72, here is another Kuki. I was stunned when reading this, I have a daughter too, her name is Ysabelle...... What a coincedence!
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@Ladymedic
I'd still like to hear your opinion about the "frowning" surely this is not possible when someone's dead or is it?
Or am I the only one who thinks it's obvious that the patient in that ambulance is frowning? :?
He's not frowning, this is discussed before and it's just the reflection from outside that makes him look frowning.
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As far as it goes i found this photo it could very easily be the ambulance pic..my daughter has photo shop on her computer and she can do some neat stuff with it ..you can take a 100 pounds off you if you would like and make your face clear and your eyes purple if you wont so yes any photo taken of MJ lying down could have been put in the pic to mke it look like it was him in the ambulance..just post what you think you may have seen it before ..if so sorry this is my first time ..
much l.o.v.e. I miss you Michael ... ;)
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As far as it goes i found this photo it could very easily be the ambuluance pic..my daughter has photo shop on her computer and she can do some neat stuff with it ..you can take a 100 pounds off you if you would like and make your face clear and your eyes purple if you wont so yes any photo taken of MJ lying down could have been put in the pic to mke it look like it was him in the ambuance..just post what you think you may have seen it before ..if so sorry this is my first time ..
much l.o.v.e. I miss you Michael ... ;)
Yes it could be this one, but there are a lot of other pics that look similiar. Just because it's Michael. You can take almost every picture and photoshop it untill it looks like the ambulance pic.
I don't think we will ever find out which one they used. And there's always the possibility that he was really in the ambulance, whether he was posing or not.
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As far as it goes i found this photo it could very easily be the ambuluance pic..my daughter has photo shop on her computer and she can do some neat stuff with it ..you can take a 100 pounds off you if you would like and make your face clear and your eyes purple if you wont so yes any photo taken of MJ lying down could have been put in the pic to mke it look like it was him in the ambuance..just post what you think you may have seen it before ..if so sorry this is my first time ..
much l.o.v.e. I miss you Michael ... ;)
Yes it could be this one, but there are a lot of other pics that look similiar. Just because it's Michael. You can take almost every picture and photoshop it untill it looks like the ambulance pic.
I don't think we will ever find out which one they used. And there's always the possibility that he was really in the ambulance, whether he was posing or not.
That is true it wouldn't be hard to stage to make it look like they where working on him ..those could be actors on a movie set for all we know ...
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As far as it goes i found this photo it could very easily be the ambulance pic..my daughter has photo shop on her computer and she can do some neat stuff with it ..you can take a 100 pounds off you if you would like and make your face clear and your eyes purple if you wont so yes any photo taken of MJ lying down could have been put in the pic to mke it look like it was him in the ambulance..just post what you think you may have seen it before ..if so sorry this is my first time ..
much l.o.v.e. I miss you Michael ... ;)
I forgot about this photo! Yes this could have very well been the photo used to photoshop.
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isn't it a disgrace, poor mike went to say good bye to James Brown and some evil so and so put him in the box, tmz post it
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look at this awful photo shopped pic of the king
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OMG :shock: talk about bad photoshoping :shock: :lol: :lol:
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
Which cable do you mean?
That with "blood" inside. Take a look at that, and the one with the chamber picture. I was thinking 7 pictures mixed, but that is too many.. Maybe three total.
That pointy > also.. What the hell is that?
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ad7pzQ4_694/0.jpg)
I think the pointy thing could be a clip.
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you know when i look at the recent amb picture rotated like that!! i don't even think it looks like Michael, not even a little bit!!
never looked at it like that before, hmmmmmm how strange!! :ugeek:
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i think it is very unusual for a professional such as a doctor to make a video like this.
i have had dealings in my day job with a few doctors and they don't/can't do this.
I don't think ladymedic said she was a doctor. I do believe what she says is real. However, the picture is fake. I think the tubes make the strongest case of all for it being fake. It would not be in the same place in two separate photos - no way.
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Easy photoshop job. It's from the champer picture, mixed with other photos. How can the cable be exactly the same in the ambulance as in the chamber. Fake, easy to edit! Give me the time I need, and I can make it the same. But I don't bother, cause this is a easy photoshop job. Ask anyone that knows how to use it.
Which cable do you mean?
That with "blood" inside. Take a look at that, and the one with the chamber picture. I was thinking 7 pictures mixed, but that is too many.. Maybe three total.
That pointy > also.. What the hell is that?
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ad7pzQ4_694/0.jpg)
I think the pointy thing could be a clip.
What do you mean by clip?
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It could be a clips to either open or close the IV, in his neck.
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If you want to know if this photo is fake, just look at his eyebrows, doesn't look like MJ's eyebrows on TII.. DUUUHH..!!
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debunking the fake photos see below
[youtube:1t3mp4lz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0KSZZXEv9A[/youtube:1t3mp4lz]
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hoax vid
[youtube:1bpklysj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J2FmaloJ_U&feature=related[/youtube:1bpklysj]
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what about these i have done
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the only photo of mike on his "last day" is this one, which could be a fake, but why was it put out? ben knew mike, was he making fun of him?
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If you want to know if this photo is fake, just look at his eyebrows, doesn't look like MJ's eyebrows on TII.. DUUUHH..!!
i think that mike had his eyebrows shaped, it made his eyes pop, dont you think.
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Does anybody know when the pic of Michael and the paparazi and the white van is from ?
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who is coming out of the ambulance after the trolley moves off and why is he being shielded?
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TII photo
What is different with the eyebrows.. dont see it. They look the same to me
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http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... hoto200907 (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo200907)
"Michael Jackson’s Last Close-Up
The team of paparazzi who took the now infamous final photograph of Michael Jackson had fixated on the King of Pop—both with their cameras and without—for years, camping outside his gate and communing with his most fervent fans. In exclusive interviews, they recount the play-by-play of the shot seen round the world.
By Michael Joseph Gross WEB EXCLUSIVE July 2, 2009
Christopher Weiss wants to be a doctor, but he is not, at first glance, a dream candidate for medical school. He went to junior college and got mediocre grades—and then he spent the better part of the next decade trying to make up for his feckless youth. Getting his bachelor’s degree at U.S.C., doing breast-cancer lab research, working as an E.M.T., and getting his paramedic’s license, the 29-year-old slowly built a résumé that could impress admissions boards. But he always worried that he wasn’t saving enough of his income, that med school would require him to take on a crushing load of debt. Then, in 2007, his boyhood friend Ben Evenstad, also 29, offered Weiss a chance to make a lot of money. When Evenstad co-founded the photo agency National Photo Group, he hired Weiss and taught him how to be a paparazzo.
Though Weiss says he’s not very interested in celebrities, he came to enjoy the job, especially when he got to shoot Michael Jackson. “From the first time I saw him in person, at a Barnes & Noble, when he was wearing Band-Aids on his face, I was mesmerized,” Weiss says. His boss, Evenstad, shares the fascination: “As a pap, you spend most of your time chasing sex symbols, but M.J. was different, almost like a Howard Hughes character,” he says. “With the masks and the umbrellas and the mystery, I thought Michael was more interesting than any other celebrity, and he has more interesting fans than any other celebrity—this group, mostly female, who would follow him all over the world. If he went to Ireland, France, Bahrain, Neverland, they were there. The same individuals. Nobody else had what he had. I set out to document why.”
Evenstad started as a pap in 1999 (he was also a professional autograph collector at the time), and he worked for a photo agency that questioned the amount of time he spent chasing Jackson, during a period when photos of the singer were not commanding premium prices. “For me, it was kind of a fan thing. As a fan, I wanted to get his photo. It wasn’t until 2003 when his legal troubles got bad that pictures of him started to be worth a lot again,” Evenstad says.
Although this may sound self-justifying, it is in earnest. I have known Evenstad for eight years—I wrote about him for The New York Times Magazine, in 2001—and from the day we met, he named Jackson as his favorite quarry.
Jackson’s most devoted fans recognized a fellow enthusiast in Evenstad, and they developed a mutually beneficial relationship, exchanging tips with one another about the singer’s comings and goings.
National Photo Group, from the beginning, “wanted to be the Michael Jackson agency,” Evenstad says. “There’s always money to be made with Michael, so we started shooting him every day.” Last fall, when Jackson moved into the Bel-Air Hotel, in Los Angeles, Christopher Weiss and another photographer were assigned to be, as Weiss puts it, “soldiers of the sit.” He, too, became friendly with the singer’s core group of fans: mostly young, attractive, European women.
Jackson and one of his many young female fans, October 2008. Despite his penchant for wearing masks, he was not afraid of physical contact with his admirers. By Dean/National Photo Group.
Weiss, whose voice has the clear, generous intelligence of a Boy Scout, remembers, “The girls would huddle outside the hotel gate that was closest to Jackson’s bungalow, sitting very quietly so that security would not find them. And sometimes Michael would come out and say hello. One time he handed out five handwritten letters that said things like ‘I can feel your energy through the walls. You inspire me so much. I love you all. Thank you for being there. Thank you for being my friend. Thank you for loving me. With all the love in my heart, Michael Jackson.’ I was always impressed by that, how deeply he seemed to care for these girls. When he hugged one of them, he would put one hand on her neck, behind her head, that extra-comforting move like you would do to a person you know. The writing in those letters had a style that was personal, deep, flowery, ornate. It was not ‘Thanks guys. Have a good night. I hope you like the music.’”
This, too, may sound like a sentimental exaggeration, but it is not. I spent a week with the women that Weiss and Evenstad are talking about, while researching Starstruck, a book I wrote about relationships between celebrities and fans. No star was more generous to fans (every member of the core group of Jackson fans that I met had, at some point, been invited into his house to have dinner or to watch movies and hang out), and no group of fans treated one another with more generosity than these women.
“To figure out who would get the letters that Michael wrote to the group,” Weiss says, “the girls would draw straws. They would write their names on pieces of paper and throw them in my camera bag, and I would reach in and draw names. The girl who got the letter would take it and make photocopies and give them to all of the others.”
Last December, National became the first photo agency to learn the address of the mansion Jackson was renting on North Carolwood Drive, in the Holmby Hills section of Los Angeles. Evenstad, who was also friendly with members of Jackson’s staff, managed to keep the location a secret for a couple of weeks. Throughout the winter and spring, even when no one else was around, there was almost always at least one photographer from National staking out the gates alongside the die-hard fans.
On June 25, National sent a photographer named Alfred Ibanez to the house. Just after noon, Ibanez called Evenstad, panicked: “There is an ambulance here. Get your video camera and get here now.”
On the way to the scene, Evenstad called Weiss and the rest of his photographers on their cell phones, ordering them to Jackson’s house immediately. Weiss, who was staking out Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie’s driveway (the couple had spent the previous night at the Hollywood Roosevelt hotel, Pitt had just returned home in his black Prius, and Weiss was waiting in hopes of getting a shot of Jolie, as well), raced 7.9 miles to Jackson’s. He arrived to find the National photographers (the only paps there) talking to two fans and three autograph collectors who’d been in front of the house all morning. Weiss saw an ambulance inside the gates and a fire truck parked on the street. Ibanez had zoomed in through the window of the fire truck with his telephoto lens and snapped a picture of the call screen, which provided a few details about the situation inside. At this point, Weiss’s experience as an E.M.T. came in handy. He read from the digital image: “50-year-old male … not breathing … ”
“That told me this was probably serious,” Weiss says, “and not just an anxiety attack like he’s had in the past.” Still, he adds, “you can never know exactly what ‘not breathing’ means at that point. It’s laypeople being quoted in a clinical context.” The more time passed, the less serious Weiss figured Jackson’s problems must be. “We were there for 20 minutes,” he says, “and if you’ve got a full arrest”—when a patient really has stopped breathing—“the paramedics usually load and go within 8 to 10 minutes.”
Having been scooped in the past, Evenstad knew anything could happen. As the ambulance started backing down the driveway toward the gate, he barked orders at his guys: “This might be the biggest picture ever, so get up to the windows of that vehicle and shoot. I don’t care if you can’t see. Just shoot.” When he saw Weiss standing a foot from the window, he worried that Weiss would get nothing more than a picture of the reflection of his own camera flash. Weiss says, “Ben told me, ‘Put your lens against the window, and shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.’”
“We couldn’t see inside the ambulance,” Weiss continues. “For all I knew when I was taking the pictures, Michael could have been sitting up on a gurney with oxygen on.”
The National photographers jumped in two cars that followed the Jackson entourage’s two blue Escalades that followed the screaming ambulance to the emergency room at U.C.L.A. medical center—and by then, TMZ and other paps were on the scene. When Evenstad rushed the ambulance, one of Jackson’s bodyguards tried to block his camera and said, “‘C’mon man. Don’t do this. This isn’t cool,’” and Evenstad said, “‘When it’s this big, we have to,’ and I ran around to the other side, because at a certain point there’s no delicacy. We gotta do what we gotta do.”
Weiss saw a look on the guards’ faces that made him believe something was really wrong: “They were being aggressive, but it was remorseful aggressiveness. ‘Please guys, please just stop.’ They kept saying ‘please.’”
By then, Weiss had checked the last few frames he’d shot through the ambulance window, and all he saw was a reflection on the glass. “I thought, I didn’t get it. I was depressed that I missed a shot that could have been a big deal.”
Evenstad collected the memory cards from everybody’s cameras and headed to National’s office to edit the images. Not long after, he called Weiss again: “Chris, you have made up for every knucklehead maneuver you have ever done. We have a usable frame of M.J. in the back”—the now ubiquitous shot of Jackson strapped to a gurney, his face shown in profile as one paramedic attempts chest resuscitation and another pumps oxygen into his mouth.
At this point, National’s paps were still in an ethical twilight zone. Was the picture they’d taken no more than an intimate shot of Michael Jackson’s most recent histrionics? (“This is Michael we’re talking about,” Evenstad says. “Crazy shit is run-of-the-mill.”) Or, as they were beginning to dread—with an unsettling edge of excitement—did they have something more significant on their hands?
They were still editing the shots when TMZ, at first, and then the TV networks reported that Jackson was dead. Weiss, who was in National’s office by then, says that everyone stopped briefly and looked at one another, stunned. Then, Evenstad says, “something clicks in, and you just start working again like a machine. You have to sell this. And you have to not shortchange yourself. We didn’t make him die. Whatever happened to him physically happened because of what he was doing. We were only there to report the goings-on of his. The last thing I want on earth was for him to die
The morning after Jackson’s death, Weiss says, he was “happy because we got the picture. I took the last picture of Michael Jackson, ever. Because we had, as much as a photographer could for the last six months of his life, a relationship with Michael. There were days, like when he went to the doctor’s office sometimes, when we would just put our cameras down and visit with him. It’s weird to say this, as paparazzi, because the world can’t stand us, even though they can’t put our magazines down, but there was a closeness that our photographers had with Michael. If there was any fate to getting the shots, maybe that was it. We didn’t go out celebrating. We just watched the news all night.”
How does it feel, knowing that Jackson might well have been dead when the picture was taken? Weiss struggles to formulate an answer, then says, “I am glad, if somebody had to take that photo, that it was me. But I would rather it not have happened. I’d rather have a photo of him carrying his kids piggyback in the park, which is something that’s never been shot and I used to hope for. I understand the magnitude of the photo and that it has a kind of place in history. But it sucks. It just sucks.”
This ambivalence was eating at both of the photographers the day after Jackson died. Evenstad, who didn’t sleep that night, says, “I’m not a morbid person. I don’t want to celebrate someone’s death because I’m making money. I wish Michael wasn’t dead. And I would do better, business-wise, if he were still alive. But given that he died, I am not sorry that we got the last photo. That’s something that the world wants to see. It took skill and effort to get that photo, and for that I’m proud. But we are in mourning.”
He and Weiss were both worried about the fans. A few of them had been texting some of National’s photographers during the night: “I am dead inside,” one message read. “Nothing means anything.”
“For the last 18 hours, we have been playing M.J. songs, and we have a poster in the window of our office that reads ‘R.I.P. King,’” Evenstad said at the time. “And look, I’m still stunned. It hasn’t hit me yet. He was the only celebrity that, if you were devoted enough, he would let you into his house. You think somebody could go to Bruce Willis’s house and say, ‘I love you, I love you,’ that you’d get in? He’d call the police. That’s what all of them would do. All but Michael. If you said ‘I love you, I love you’ to Michael, he would assume you meant you loved him, and he would let you in.”
Jackson’s death leaves a void not only in the fans’ lives but also in Evenstad’s. As much as he may mourn the singer, though, Evenstad also mourns the rare complexity of relationships that surrounded the King of Pop. “This is what hit me halfway through the night: What do I do now? Chase fucking Zac Efron around?,” Evenstad asks. “What is the point?”
Christopher Weiss plans to retire from the paparazzi if he gets into medical school this fall. By the end of the weekend, his photograph of Michael Jackson in the back of the ambulance had grossed sales in the high six figures, with many foreign sales still pending. The first, and most notorious of these sales was closed during my conversation with Evenstad, when a bicycle messenger was pedaling across London, delivering a paper check—for about $500,000—from OK! magazine to National’s U.K. lawyer. Yesterday, the New York Post’s “Page Six” called Weiss’s photo “ghoulish,” reported that some OK! staffers were outraged by the purchase, and suggested that Jay-Z and Sean Combs may organize a boycott of the magazine. Combs’s publicist denied the rumor, and it’s unclear how much controversy the shot may inspire—but this image is sure to have a long and prosperous life. Frank Griffin, one of the deans of Hollywood paparazzi, was quoted as saying the shot would earn $1 million. That should go a long way toward paying tuition.
In January, Weiss went from commission to salary with National, he says, not quite able to hide his disappointment. But he’ll probably make out fine. Ben Evenstad explains, “Our whole staff will get bonuses on this. Once we exceed quarterly sales goals, everybody gets a piece of the pie. When we created that system, we never figured that a picture would ever make this much money. The bonuses might be six figures. If not, then damn close.”
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http://www.celebitchy.com/61183/photogr ... it_was_me/ (http://www.celebitchy.com/61183/photographer_who_captured_jacksons_last_photo_im_glad_it_was_me/)
"It does seem sort of fitting that if someone had to take that shot, at least it was a photographer who’d followed him and learned about him and become a genuine fan. The whole article is really interesting in reading the photographers’ accounting of what happened that day. Ben Weiss used to be a paramedic, and he talked about zooming in on some of the displays inside the ambulance, which told him the situation was serious."
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interesting blogs followed the article
http://www.celebitchy.com/61183/photogr ... it_was_me/ (http://www.celebitchy.com/61183/photographer_who_captured_jacksons_last_photo_im_glad_it_was_me/)
No doubt he and the editors ARE glad he took the last photo. …a six figure dollar bonus later…
The guy hung out looking for dirt!
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2.Iggles:
July 20th, 2009 at 2:36 pm “I am glad, if somebody had to take that photo, that it was me. But I would rather it not have happened. I’d rather have a photo of him carrying his kids piggyback in the park, which is something that’s never been shot and I used to hope for. I understand the magnitude of the photo and that it has a kind of place in history. But it sucks. It just sucks.”
I like this guy’s honestly and that he liked MJ. He sounds decent. Any sound bite can be made into a faux-controversy. I think the title of this post is misleading. Hopefully people who are capable of reading comprehension won’t blow this one out of proportion..
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3.KelBear:
July 20th, 2009 at 2:36 pm Yeah I Bet he is happy, I’m sure he has made a ton of money also.
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4.Diana:
July 20th, 2009 at 3:35 pm From what I remember of the article, he said, “Now I can afford med school.”
He was following the Jolie-Pitt’s and was told to leave and head straight to Holmby Hills, MJ emergency.
It was an excellent photo.
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5.tt:
July 20th, 2009 at 7:24 pm the world DID NOT wanna see that last picture. I know i didnt, so no i dont think it was necessary…i think it was tacky
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6.Mona:
July 20th, 2009 at 10:43 pm Michael was so beautiful, these pictures of him on an ordinary day make me miss him so.
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7.fizXgirl314:
July 21st, 2009 at 8:05 am wow, that seems like a pretty impeccable treatment of fans if i ever heard one… he seemed like such a gentle soul…
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8.Jazz:
July 21st, 2009 at 8:57 am “It took skill and effort to get that photo, and for that I’m proud.”
??????
Skill and effort?? They were probably chasing the freakin ambulance down the street.
If anyone has seen that Streets of Hollywood show on E, you’ll see what scumbags these guys really are.
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9.Mary Jane:
July 25th, 2009 at 4:12 pm I ne’er knew that Michael did that with his fans. I guess that is why his fans love him so dearly. Sweet…
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10.dany:
September 17th, 2009 at 10:42 pm 114. Please boycott the This Is It movie, as Taj, MJs nephew told the probate court, he would not have wanted this, he was protective of his image… It is horrendous to watch and anyone who dismisses the emaciated appearance of this great man towards the end needs glasses really… If you go and see this movie then you are party to the murder of MJ, its clear that AEG, Kenny Ortega, and the others involved did nothing but neglect him and all because of MONEY… Karen Faye who was his make up artist and close friend for 20yrs, is urging everyone to boycott the movie…its just a diary of his demise, she was there along with fans who got to see how ill MJ was, he said ‘they are killing me’, this is a small part of what Karen has to say…
“It will be interesting to see what footage will be chosen to be in the film. I am as curious as you, because I asked for the cameras to be turned off when Michael was in a disoriented and sickly condition.” “I can assure you it will be presented in the interest of those who will profit the most.” “I am totally against this….I hope it can be stopped.” “I think if THE JACKSON FAMILY wants to make a documentary in a year…or two, once we know the WHOLE story…then ok. This is being done too quickly for some reason I do not feel comfortable about.” “I think it will be manipulated to glorify AEG, Kenny Ortega (who is the director of the film…and getting another huge paycheck)….MY FRIEND IS DEAD!!!! and you’re going to put his frail little body on screen…..!!!! I better go to the gym.” “do you think it will show Kenny cutting up his chicken and holding him up when he walks down a ramp???? do you think it will show Michael covered in blankets because his body is frigid????” “GUYS…Kenny knew how bad he was…. he was one of the people I was begging help from.” “this movie makes me insane.”
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11.dany:
September 28th, 2009 at 9:24 pm Michael, i love you to. I want you to feel well where you are. All these beautiful songs make me so sad about your leaving. RIP sweet heart, no more sorrow, no more trouble, no more frustration, no more tribulation, no more doubt, no more violence, no more despair, no more trials, no bore fears. RIP Miachael -LOVEfrom Martinique-
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Thanks for posting this article. I can understand these paparazis in some way: They have to make a living, but If this paparazi was as close to Michael as he claims, then why make that photo public ? year I know, MONEY. But i still dont believe it's possible to get that picture through the tinted windows.
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http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/death-d ... -czur.html (http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/death-dash-a-jackpot-for-fast-photographers-20090626-czur.html)
Death dash a jackpot for fast photographers GERARD WRIGHT, LOS ANGELES
June 27, 2009
SUDDENLY, it was a very good day.
As the Los Angeles Fire Department ambulance backed carefully out of the driveway of Michael Jackson's palatial estate in Holmby Hills, two camera lenses pressed against its tinted side window.
Inside, paramedics worked to try to restore Michael Jackson's life. One camera caught Jackson's unmistakeable profile, with a tube attached to his mouth, and gloved hands pressing his upper chest.
The ambulance sped out of North Carolwood Drive and into Sunset Boulevard. Two Cadillac Escalades , carrying members of Jackson's staff, followed. Four nondescript cars gave chase.
At the UCLA Medical Centre, Jackson's gurney was eased out of the ambulance as his staff spread arms and jackets to shield him. The same video lens that tracked him outside his home caught a gap in the coverage and showed him being wheeled into the hospital.
Within two hours, Michael Jackson's death was official, and in the warped economics of the Los Angeles celebrity-industrial complex, the National Photo Group, a small, independent agency, had become immeasurably richer. In life, Michael Jackson was a target. In death, he was the jackpot.
The single frame of the unconscious Jackson was taken by Chris Weiss, a staff photographer for the agency. The video image — a "split, split second" of the same moment — was grabbed by his boss, Ben Evenstad. Both have been sold to the celebrity news program, Entertainment Tonight, for an undisclosed amount. "Right now, we're well into six figures," Evenstad said last night.
His former boss added another zero. "The million dollar picture has been taken," Frank Griffin said.
Griffin runs the Bauer Griffin photographic agency. Evenstad left the company two years ago to found his own agency. "We try to be known as the Michael Jackson agency," Evenstad said.
One of them was outside Jackson's estate in the ultra-rich suburb of Holmby Hills when the ambulance arrived soon after midday on Thursday, local time. The photographer called for backup.
On arrival, Evenstad peered into the cabin of another ambulance. On the laptop computer screen he read, "50yo male, not breathing".
"We figured it could be him," he said. After 40 minutes, the original ambulance re-appeared, reversing through the estate's ornate gates. Evenstad and Weiss approached the side windows, cameras poised
"Look," said Evenstad, by way of explanation for the intrusion, "it's Michael, Michael Jackson on the way to hospital."
Source: The Age
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But i still dont believe it's possible to get that picture through the tinted windows
yeah, the angle is wrong, the windows on the ambulance are on the closed doors above trolley level, and on the side, the angle looks like it is taken from the side, the side would be the corner of the ambulance - which is a metal corner
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At the UCLA Medical Centre, Jackson's gurney was eased out of the ambulance as his staff spread arms and jackets to shield him. The same video lens that tracked him outside his home caught a gap in the coverage and showed him being wheeled into the hospital.
;) They did not shield him very much. As far I can remember from that gif from ucla, they were only shielding somone who came out from the ambulance , after the stretcher was taken out.
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Fantastic article
http://dianajeann.blogspot.com/2009/12/ ... s-for.html (http://dianajeann.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-are-friends-for.html)
"L.O.V.E. It's A Mystery
The King Of Pop might still be with us. Diana Jean pointing out the strange facts
Wednesday, December 30, 2009
What Are Friends For?
I don't really feel like I need to explain the picture above, everybody should already know what it is. Many of you even know the name of the photographer who took this photo. If not, no worries I gotcha covered. The name of the photographer who took this photo is Chris Weiss
Ben Evenstad was a pap who founded a photo agency. Ben and Michael Jackson just so happen to have more than just your average "Pap+celebrity relationship" You could even call them friends.
Ben Evenstad founded a photo agency and hired Chris Weiss as a paparazzo. The interesting thing about Chris is that, he wants to be a doctor. He has a long and impressive résumé of his experinces in the medical feild. Now just think about how handy that would be for Michael to be friends with someone like that.
Ben Evenstad's photo agency just happend to be the first photo agency to learn the location of Michael's rented mansion on Carolwood Drive. (They also just so happend to find out the location in December, which is when the first reports of Michael having 6 months to live first came out. Which in some theories is the begining of the hoax. ) I wonder who told them...
The morning of June 25th they just happend to of already have a Pap outside Michaels house. When the ambulance came they were the only Paps there.
"Weiss saw an ambulance inside the gates and a fire truck parked on the street. Ibanez had zoomed in through the window of the fire truck with his telephoto lens and snapped a picture of the call screen, which provided a few details about the situation inside. At this point, Weiss’s experience as an E.M.T. came in handy. He read from the digital image: “50-year-old male … not breathing … ”
Why haven't we seen this photo?
"The more time passed, the less serious Weiss figured Jackson’s problems must be. “We were there for 20 minutes,” he says, “and if you’ve got a full arrest”—when a patient really has stopped breathing—“the paramedics usually load and go within 8 to 10 minutes.”"
But they were there for about 40 minutes.
Notice how Chris Weiss's medical experience comes in handy.
"The morning after Jackson’s death, Weiss says, he was “happy because we got the picture. I took the last picture of Michael Jackson, ever. Because we had, as much as a photographer could for the last six months of his life, a relationship with Michael. There were days, like when he went to the doctor’s office sometimes, when we would just put our cameras down and visit with him. It’s weird to say this, as paparazzi, because the world can’t stand us, even though they can’t put our magazines down, but there was a closeness that our photographers had with Michael. If there was any fate to getting the shots, maybe that was it."
The kind of impression I'm getting from the quote above doesn't have a hint of sadness to it. I mean, Michael Jackson was their main focas and a good friend. He just passed away and their happy?
Why would they be happy about that?
Myabe it's because this whole thing was planned. Maybe during one of their "visits" with Michael they made a deal. It's a win win situation if you think about it. The paps probably made more money on that one photo than every other picture they've taken before. And Michael gets away with step one of the Hoax.
Think about it."
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WOW ! that just says what we are thinkin', really :o yes , so many coincidences, and the pap just happen to be someone with medical background :?
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more about this guy ben
Interview with the paparazzi who took the last picture of Michael Jackson, dead in the ambulance Video Clips
http://michaeljacksonvideosite.com/vide ... lance.html (http://michaeljacksonvideosite.com/video/5VR-HSc2aM4/Interview-with-the-paparazzi-who-took-the-last-picture-of-Michael-Jackson-dead-in-the-ambulance.html)
[youtube:2ueguq5l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:2ueguq5l]
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sorry about this guys, i know its been debunked as fake by some an stuff but its playing on my mind so i have to mention it.. i know its old ground now.. but it gets to me so..
if you look where i've put the single arrow the is discolouration on the face, like a purple colour, this indicates death, seen it a few times in my old job, and its to far out to be hair..
also the two arrows, why does it appear to have blood in the tube? or something red if you prefer no to call it blood.. there should be stuff going in not coming out!!
[attachment=0:2ej11m4l]mamb.jpg[/attachment:2ej11m4l]
in ambulance photo below if you look at the tubing that looks like it has
fluid in it i think it is a microphone in which he is singing...there are
several pictures on mjjpictures from the History tour there that have a mic
or something wrapped around his ear..
photos below:
ambulance photo for comparison:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img213.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
this particular photo below..credit goes to the wizard of oz in MJHD forum
if you look at the neck area i can see there is another tubing which looks
like the one in the ambulance photo (part of the mic)
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
photo flipped
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
the rest of the photos taken from mjjpictures.com
I flipped some pics to show that the ambulance picture tube could be a mic.. jmo
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3600/fullscreencapture130201.th.jpg) (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture130201.jpg/)
interesting posts
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good job
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But i still dont believe it's possible to get that picture through the tinted windows
yeah, the angle is wrong, the windows on the ambulance are on the closed doors above trolley level, and on the side, the angle looks like it is taken from the side, the side would be the corner of the ambulance - which is a metal corner
It is possible. I've done it. :)
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But i still dont believe it's possible to get that picture through the tinted windows
yeah, the angle is wrong, the windows on the ambulance are on the closed doors above trolley level, and on the side, the angle looks like it is taken from the side, the side would be the corner of the ambulance - which is a metal corner
It is possible. I've done it. :)
from the corner of an ambulance, a mental corner of a moving van with no windows ?
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But i still dont believe it's possible to get that picture through the tinted windows
yeah, the angle is wrong, the windows on the ambulance are on the closed doors above trolley level, and on the side, the angle looks like it is taken from the side, the side would be the corner of the ambulance - which is a metal corner
It is possible. I've done it. :)
from the corner of an ambulance, a mental corner of a moving van with no windows ?
It's not a "mental" window. There is a window on the passanger side of the ambulance where the door is. And it's actually in the corner of the back of the ambulance, unrelated to the cab.
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i dont understand what you mean when you say that you have done this?
please expand and why would you do this?
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i dont understand what you mean when you say that you have done this?
please expand and why would you do this?
I did it on another forum for this exact reason. Many, many, many people questioned if you could take a picture through tinted ambulance windows. So I went and took pictures, and you could see through clearly.
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the back corner of a moving oblong ambulance is a metal corner without windows, the door had windows and the side of the ambulance , but not the corners.
i dont see how the angle could be acheived.
show us the photo pls if you can
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and what objectively was the general view after the posting?
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and what objectively was the general view after the posting?
The exact same angle as Michael's picture. I'll start a new thread with the pictures.
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you do you have to start a new thread, there are too many duplicated threads, why not post here, so everyone can see who was contributing to this thread?
pls
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you do you have to start a new thread, there are too many duplicated threads, why not post here, so everyone can see who was contributing to this thread?
pls
I already started a new thread. Sorry! But it's much different than other threads, and this way others can see it and not have to dig through 6 pages of one of 11 threads in this forum to find it:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4518 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4518)
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i am posting this on all ambulance threads to get your opinions,
the ambulance has a mystery guy shielding his face when he leave the ambulance after mike, strange.
but how many pp were in the ambulance :
mj, dr murray, 2 ambulance man in the back, and the mystery guy
why would he shield his face
why weren't any medical staff meeting mike when he came off the ambulance?
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i am posting this on all ambulance threads to get your opinions,
the ambulance has a mystery guy shielding his face when he leave the ambulance after mike, strange.
but how many pp were in the ambulance :
mj, dr murray, 2 ambulance man in the back, and the mystery guy
why would he shield his face
why weren't any medical staff meeting mike when he came off the ambulance?
I have looked at this before. The conclusion i came to was that this mystery person seems to actually be another security person. The mystery person looks like he is leaving the ambulance when in fact he is coming in front of it (from the right, moving in front) when you look at the moving footage. This means, if true, he is not coming out of the ambulance, he is coming across it, copying the other security guard's actions who is behind him - protecting MJ. The security guard/mystery person - you can see the outline of his face and his tie can be seen through the glass in the door. He wears a white shirt and is facing the ambulance. http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-conten ... center.jpg (http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-arrives-via-ambulance-at-ucla-medical-center.jpg)
Sorry no link to moving footage, can someone provide it?
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Also, regarding not being able to see through the windows. If you pause at 5.03 (don't concentrate on the time, focus on the window of the ambulance) as someone moves into the window filming you can actually see the paramedic and the badge on his arm through the glass. This kind of suggests that you can see through those windows with a lens. Hopefully this will end the speculation on this point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfh ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=player_embedded)
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So what you're saying is that the photo is real? Even if it is all possible doesn't facts support that it's false more than real? Just wondering, not stating anything
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Also, regarding not being able to see through the windows. If you pause at 5.03 (don't concentrate on the time, focus on the window of the ambulance) as someone moves into the window filming you can actually see the paramedic and the badge on his arm through the glass. This kind of suggests that you can see through those windows with a lens. Hopefully this will end the speculation on this point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfh ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=player_embedded)
Agree Quirky, not just that but you can also see reflections of the street in the window in the pic. I also think the ambulance picture is genuine.
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So what you're saying is that the photo is real? Even if it is all possible doesn't facts support that it's false more than real? Just wondering, not stating anything
What facts would consider it more fake than real?
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So what you're saying is that the photo is real? Even if it is all possible doesn't facts support that it's false more than real? Just wondering, not stating anything
What facts would consider it more fake than real?
Such as the red light reflection when there wasn't even any red cars (or other vehicles) present on that side of the ambulancs (there's footage of the camera man actually taking the so called picture). I think someone on this forum who's a photographer pointed this out and said that reflection would be impossible in this case. The fact that it looks like a muck younger Michael, even if it's not that clear. Brian Oxaman stating that it's a fake photo, ok that's not really a fact but just someone close to the family that agrees though. I'm not saying it's not real because I'm not sure but these things make me wonder...
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Just my opinion on MJ's appearance. In his later years, i always thought that the make-up he wore sometimes aged him. I think he looks quite a bit younger when he wears little or no make-up. At the O2 conference and at some points in TII he appears to wear a lot of make-up, and this makes him look older. Also, perhaps the lighting on stage casts shadows on his face that make it look more hollow and angular and also older. In the ambulance pic, you would expect him to be wearing no make-up except that which is tattooed on his face. Perhaps it is this that makes his face appear younger.
Ambulance http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles ... 678247.jpg (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/218923/80678247.jpg)
June 3rd http://mjjgallery.free.fr/2009/various/studio/004.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/2009/various/studio/004.jpg)
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/2009/various/studio/023.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/2009/various/studio/023.jpg)
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/2009/various/studio/003.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/2009/various/studio/003.jpg)
Regarding the number of people in the ambulance. You would suppose the ideal situation might be 2 paramedics attending patient for cpr, and 2 others available to manouver the stretcher independent of those doing cpr. That's 4 people. Someone has to drive anyway so we are only talking about an extra person needed in total. There were 4 people with the stretcher at the hospital, and at the house (on the vh1 crime scene footage) you can see a uniformed person with short ponytail loading the stretcher. I believe this person is the one we see attending the stretcher at the hospital.
There were also medical staff waiting inside the door at the hospital. Murray must have been in the back of the ambulance with the 2 paramedics. It is said they were following his orders. That would mean the other 2 guys had to sit in the front. It is possible.
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But then which one within these professional stuff was getting out of the ambo who needed to be hidden with a jacket?
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There is a red car like the one seen in the photo. As the photographer runs back to his car you can see it in the footage. The footage is shaky but it is there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU&feature=fvw)
@somekindofsign. The guy is a security guard, you can see the outline of his face and his tie can be seen through the glass in the door. He is facing the ambulance. http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-conten ... center.jpg (http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-arrives-via-ambulance-at-ucla-medical-center.jpg)
He is not protecting anyone coming out. He is protecting the view that can be seen here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQx5g5lwAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQx5g5lwAE) He is aware that this person is filming and trying to get a view from the other side of the ambulance.
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The blood is in the tube because they oxeygenate it. They run it out of the body in a tube, oxeygenate it and flow it back in.
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The blood is in the tube because they oxeygenate it. They run it out of the body in a tube, oxeygenate it and flow it back in.
If you are referring to "Extra-Corporeal Circulation", I'm almost sure it can't be practiced in an ambulance... You can see he was intubated in order to oxigenate his blood.
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The blood is in the tube because they oxeygenate it. They run it out of the body in a tube, oxeygenate it and flow it back in.
mjj29081958 is totally correct. The blood in the tube is just venous backflow from the IV.
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Sorry, nevermind! I just realize you said just Ambulance questions. :D
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The picture is took from the side of the trunk when it's in the middle of the road, how can you have a prefect perpendicular reflection of the red car that is behind it ?
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The picture is took from the side of the trunk when it's in the middle of the road, how can you have a prefect perpendicular reflection of the red car that is behind it ?
It is some time ago since i looked at this, i will look again, but i remember mulling over this point at the time. I think if you look at the angle of the ambulance when the pics are shot in relation to the vehicles parked on the right hand side, you may find an answer there. I will look into that again.
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i dont understand what you mean when you say that you have done this?
please expand and why would you do this?
I did it on another forum for this exact reason. Many, many, many people questioned if you could take a picture through tinted ambulance windows. So I went and took pictures, and you could see through clearly.
It is impossible to take that picture as clear with flash because the strong sunlight neutralizes the power of flash. The photo was taken with a moving ambulance and the reflection of the body of paparazzi blocked the image of a red car that is far from the ambulance and the car is very low. What time Ladymedic take the photos, because his image is not reflected in the window, which makes me think that the photos were taken at a time where there was not much sun.
:|
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Just for information.
Is you watch the video frame by frame you will see the red car has front light on and it's a girl in it with window openned ! ;)