Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => The Conrad Murray Investigation & Court Case => After June 25, 2009 => Court Case & Hearings; Discussion and Articles => Topic started by: ladyandbird on March 02, 2010, 06:53:02 AM
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Hello, I'm new on the forum and I want to start with explaining that I really am a beLIEver, but some things around this Murray-trial just do not add up for me. At least not with the theorys I've read around the hoax.
I have some questions regarding dr Murrays trial. As it is now he is charged with involuntary manslaughter, but the Jackson family claims that they want him to be charged with second degree murder. But they also claim that they know that there was a big conspiracy against Michael, and that they want everybody in the conspiracy to get convicted. They want "the truth to be prevailed." My questions are:
1. If dr. Murray will be convicted for involuntary manslaughter, doesn't that mean that Michaels chance to ever come back after this gets eliminated? (I mean everybody claims that it's not illegal to fake your death, and that no insurancemoney have been paid out and therefore this whole hoax is still legal. But if dr. Murray gets convicted for involuntary manslaughter on Michael Jackson, and no one that knows that he still is alive, nor MJ himself comes forward, isn't that comitting a huge crime on their part?)
2. If the family knows as much as they claim to do, why do they not go forward with those accusations to the police, so something can be done about the whole conspiracy? Why are they waiting for dr. Murray to hopefully come forward with that he wasn't alone and start namedropping? http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/163153 ... hael.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1631538/20100209/jackson_michael.jhtml)
I'm struggling to see what would be the point with this whole hoax, with leaving this much clues behind for us beLIEvers if it just will end up with Michael not coming back. Which he sure can't do if people are in prison because they "killed him". Why just not make us believe that he really died then? Is it some bigger plan here? Do you think it will end up with Murray walking out as a free man and that everything just was a show?
I would be so happy to hear your thoughts about this. :)
(Since I'm new, I don't know if it's ok to crosspost between different forums,
I already uploaded this in The Conrad Murray court case. Feel free do delete this
topic if it's not supposed to be here, in All odd things.)
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If Michael has died, then the trial will go on for years... it wont end this year. There will be lots of legal wrangling and dealing going on. It will be a complete nightmare for all of us.
Also... i dont think Murray will be the only one made responsible. I think the LAPD and the DEA might have a lot of investigations under wraps and other people may find themselves being indicted... Dr Klein is one of the ones who might come a cropper.
Yes.. i think Murray going to jail may put an end to the hoax as it is hard to believe that a man would be convicted and sent to jail for NOT killing a man.
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Is there no possibility that he (dr. murray) was hired to be the bad man, to take the blame, to make everything more believable? To mislead? For involuntary manslaughter you get at most four years I read somewhere. That's not very much.
I don't believe Michael is dead, there are way to much pointing to the other direction, that he is alive.
But you mean that you wouldn't believe that Michael is alive if Murray gets convicted?
There couldn't be any other purpose with his conviction, if it happens?
This trial feels like a huge piece missing in the hoaxpuzzle. I just can't put it together. :roll:
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Neither of us can put it together honey.......
The jacksons should have told the LAPD a long time ago.....Whateva they know.....
BUT they didnt.....
It could also be that theyu've told them alkready........But the LAPD couldnt come up with sufficient evidenc against those "PEOPLE"?
But then, in that case the jacksons would not yell about those "PEOPLE" in public.....
Coz, why to alert those "PEOPLE" that you're gonna take on them? Wouldnt that be foolish...?
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No, I know.. I don't think that someone here will come with the absolute truth to my questions, but it would be nice to hear if someone had a theory about this trial, that made some sense at least.
Sure agree about that part, telling the media isn't very clever.
But it wouldn't be the first time they don't make sense. :lol:
But if we put the family and conspiracy aside for a while, and focus on Murray and what happens if he gets convicted. Am I right? Does it eliminate the possibility for Michael to ever come back?
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ladyandbird, Welcome to the madhouse! Regarding the Jackson family wanting a more serious charge against Conrad Murray. I don't think it is their decision on at what level the charges should be brought. It is up to the State/County prosecutors/lawyers to decide what they think they can prove in a court of law. They need to apply the level of charge that they believe will be the most successful in proving their case i.e. Involuntary Manslaughter. There is no point going for a Second Degree Murder Charge if there is no evidence to support it because CM under that charge would be acquitted/walk free.
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IF MURRAY GETS CHARGED , THEN THE HOAX THING WILL END FOR ME N I WILL LEAVE THE SITE WITH BROKEN HEART.....
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IF MURRAY GETS CHARGED , THEN THE HOAX THING WILL END FOR ME N I WILL LEAVE THE SITE WITH BROKEN HEART.....
I hope you mean convicted, not charged? :roll:
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ladyandbird, Welcome to the madhouse! Regarding the Jackson family wanting a more serious charge against Conrad Murray. I don't think it is their decision on at what level the charges should be brought. It is up to the State/County prosecutors/lawyers to decide what they think they can prove in a court of law. They need to apply the level of charge that they believe will be the most successful in proving their case i.e. Involuntary Manslaughter. There is no point going for a Second Degree Murder Charge if there is no evidence to support it because CM under that charge would be acquitted/walk free.
:) Ofcourse I understand that it's not for the family to decide. But they tell the media that it's what they want. I don't understand why they would want that, if Michael is alive. Why would they wanna persuit this? Why would they tell the media that they hope that Murray will go down hard, that it wasn't unvoluntary manslaughter, but second degree murder? Why would they say that there are more people in on this and that they won't give up before justice has been served? If this is a hoax, why just don't leave it alone and have it's own process? Why not hope that Murray would walk out a free man, so Michael can return anytime he feels like?
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u think he will do it like elvis? I mean elvis' doctor was found not guilty look at this:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 99,1625504 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1347&dat=19811105&id=ud4SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QfsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3599,1625504)
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ladyandbird, I wish I could answer your questions but my brain is fried. A Second Degree Murder charge sounds and is more extreme than the current charge of Involuntary Manslaughter. If this is a hoax, MJ may as well go for it. Murder is the absolute when it comes to charges apart from genocide which is on a different scale. Of course a First Degree Murder charge would be the pinnacle but that is not on the agenda. Oh I don't know. :lol:
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u think he will do it like elvis? I mean elvis' doctor was found not guilty look at this:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 99,1625504 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1347&dat=19811105&id=ud4SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QfsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3599,1625504)
Maybe, maybe not. I seriously have no idea. But the only thing that would fit with the hoax is ofcourse if Dr. Murray wouldn't be convicted and walks out a free man. I don't know very much about Elvis death and the coincidences around it. But I've heard several times that Michael supposedly was interested in how he past. That, I don't know if I believe or not. But steffmaster1, if you know much about the Elvis death, then maybe you can tell me if there a lots of things that are similar between his death and Michaels "death".
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Elvis Presley Michael Jackson
The Comeback Tour That Never Happened With rumors of drug addictions swirling, Elvis' shows in early 1977 were a disaster. But a friend described a June 26 concert in Indianapolis as, "the best show he had given in a long time." Things were looking up, and he was scheduled to begin another tour on August 17. Except that he was found dead on his bathroom floor on August 16th. Michael Jackson was scheduled to kick off a string 50 shows at London's 02 Arena on July 13. He sold 750,000 tickets in a matter of hours. People said rehearsals were going well and that he was sounding and dancing better than he had in years. Except that he was found unconscious in his house on June 25th, and died after being rushed to the hospital.
Elvis cause of Death Initial reports said sudden cardiac arrhythmia, which the coroner confirmed before the autopsy was over. But rumors claimed that the true cause of death was drug use—those close to Elvis said he had a serious addiction to prescription meds, specifically Demerol. It was later confirmed that 14 drugs were in Elvis' system at the time of death.MJ- initial reports say cardiac arrest. But already rumors are swirling that drug use is the real culprit. Those close to Jackson are saying he was addicted to prescription meds, primarily morphine, and that they'd urged him to go to rehab. TMZ is reporting that Jackson may have ODed on Demerol. [TMz]
Fishy Doctor Elvis' personal physician, Dr. George Nichopoulous, wrote him more than 10,000 prescriptions for sedatives, amphetamines, and other narcotics. His license to practice medicine was suspended after Elvis' death. An unnamed doctor's car was towed from Jackson's house yesterday, and police say they will be searching it for evidence. They are currently searching for the missing doctor for questioning. [CNN]
Controversial Last Photo Elvis' cousin, Bobby Mann, was paid $18K to snap a photo of the King's body at the funeral. The photo ran on the cover of the National Enquirer and it was the best-selling issue of all time. A paparazzi snapped a close-up of paramedics trying to revive Jackson as they wheeled him on a stretcher to the ambulance. "Entertainment Tonight" shamelessly bought the pic and has been flashing it all over the place.
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IF MURRAY GETS CHARGED , THEN THE HOAX THING WILL END FOR ME N I WILL LEAVE THE SITE WITH BROKEN HEART.....
hes already been charged
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Elvis died in 1977 - there those 7's again...
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The Murray Case to me fits perfectly into the hoax.
The family has to make statements to the media about the guy who 'killed' their brother, otherwise they will be too suspicious. Because, if you believe the stories, MJ was healthy and doing fine and all of a sudden, Murray came along with his 'Insomnia treatment for Dummies' and BAM MJ is gone. So it is logical that the family is calling out about the murderer of MJ. They have to. And I think that is also the reason why they speak in riddles, about having information and what not. The world needs to be convinced that MJ is dead, so no one will look for him and they will leave him alone.
I don't think Murray will get convicted. Do you guys remember the way MJ was treated during the child molestation allegations? His property got raided, he got arrested, they treated him like shit. Dr. Murray? They searched his office way too late, he has been allowed to go to work... Now let me tell you, I don't know a lot about US law, but I ca't imagine that a suspect in a murder case (or involuntary manslaughter case) will be treated this way. I mean, the man still practices medicine! While one of his patients died because of the drugs he gave to him! Maybe he will get a fine or a slap on the wrist. "Bad Dr. Murray, don't do that again!"
If he does get convicted, I have two theories;
1. MJ isn't coming back, but will live the rest of his life in hiding and Murray is 'a victim' in all this.
2. Murray has been 'bought'. He's in debt. He needs money. For the right price, you can buy anyone. So for a couple of million dollars he will go to jail.
Long story short, it can go either way. :D
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What I read about Elvis his autobiography, it stated that he also worked for the CIA. He probably was up to something and he needed to be in the witness protection. They had to lower his heart rate so they can say it was a cardiac arrest. When they were carrying the coffin, they said the coffin weighed 900 lbs. I kow Elvis gained weight but he was not 600 lbs the coffin can weigh what, maybe lets say 100lbs. that's why you have about 6 people carrying the coffin. what appearedin the coffin was a wax replica of Elvis . That's why it was very heavy. The death of the 2 kings are similar, I do not think that MJ is in the witness protection, he was just fed up of hearing all negativity on him and his family. I am being polite with negativity, I should say B******t
This is what I know about ELvis since I have his autobiography. This I had bought it in 1984.. Wow 7 yrs after he supposedley passed away.. Here comes the 7 again :D
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The Murray Case to me fits perfectly into the hoax.
The family has to make statements to the media about the guy who 'killed' their brother, otherwise they will be too suspicious. Because, if you believe the stories, MJ was healthy and doing fine and all of a sudden, Murray came along with his 'Insomnia treatment for Dummies' and BAM MJ is gone. So it is logical that the family is calling out about the murderer of MJ. They have to. And I think that is also the reason why they speak in riddles, about having information and what not. The world needs to be convinced that MJ is dead, so no one will look for him and they will leave him alone.
I don't think Murray will get convicted. Do you guys remember the way MJ was treated during the child molestation allegations? His property got raided, he got arrested, they treated him like shit. Dr. Murray? They searched his office way too late, he has been allowed to go to work... Now let me tell you, I don't know a lot about US law, but I ca't imagine that a suspect in a murder case (or involuntary manslaughter case) will be treated this way. I mean, the man still practices medicine! While one of his patients died because of the drugs he gave to him! Maybe he will get a fine or a slap on the wrist. "Bad Dr. Murray, don't do that again!"
If he does get convicted, I have two theories;
1. MJ isn't coming back, but will live the rest of his life in hiding and Murray is 'a victim' in all this.
2. Murray has been 'bought'. He's in debt. He needs money. For the right price, you can buy anyone. So for a couple of million dollars he will go to jail.
Long story short, it can go either way. :D
Hihi, finally someone with a theory at least! I agree and disagree. I don't think that the family has to call out that it's murder. The majority do actually believe that he is dead, and have done that since the minute the news hit the media. We are a small group of people that beLIEve. I don't think that people would've thought it was weird if the family didn't call out murder. They just swallowed the news.
But I agree about that Murray probably not will be convicted. I also believe that Murray can have been bought for exactly this purpose. The time that this trial takes maybe is worth it to him, aspecially if he knows that he probably won't go to prison. And if the money is right. Because as you said, he was in debt. It will be so exciting to follow this trial. Thank you for your answer.
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Steffmaster1: Yes, there are many similarities and I will keep them in the back of my mind when I continue investigating this hoax. Thank you.
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What I read about Elvis his autobiography, it stated that he also worked for the CIA. He probably was up to something and he needed to be in the witness protection. They had to lower his heart rate so they can say it was a cardiac arrest. When they were carrying the coffin, they said the coffin weighed 900 lbs. I kow Elvis gained weight but he was not 600 lbs the coffin can weigh what, maybe lets say 100lbs. that's why you have about 6 people carrying the coffin. what appearedin the coffin was a wax replica of Elvis . That's why it was very heavy. The death of the 2 kings are similar, I do not think that MJ is in the witness protection, he was just fed up of hearing all negativity on him and his family. I am being polite with negativity, I should say B******t
This is what I know about ELvis since I have his autobiography. This I had bought it in 1984.. Wow 7 yrs after he supposedley passed away.. Here comes the 7 again :D
I don't think that Michael is in witness protection either or have/had anything to do with CIA. And I agree, that probably all BS the media put him through could be a small reason in this hoax, but I think it's far from the whole truth. I mean - he has been haunted by the media for all his life, why suddenly dissapear now? I'm sure there are more reasons for it. But yes, the headhunt is a part of the puzzle, ofcourse.
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Steffmaster1: Yes, there are many similarities and I will keep them in the back of my mind when I continue investigating this hoax. Thank you.
thats cool! :D
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The Murray Case to me fits perfectly into the hoax.
The family has to make statements to the media about the guy who 'killed' their brother, otherwise they will be too suspicious. Because, if you believe the stories, MJ was healthy and doing fine and all of a sudden, Murray came along with his 'Insomnia treatment for Dummies' and BAM MJ is gone. So it is logical that the family is calling out about the murderer of MJ. They have to. And I think that is also the reason why they speak in riddles, about having information and what not. The world needs to be convinced that MJ is dead, so no one will look for him and they will leave him alone.
I don't think Murray will get convicted. Do you guys remember the way MJ was treated during the child molestation allegations? His property got raided, he got arrested, they treated him like shit. Dr. Murray? They searched his office way too late, he has been allowed to go to work... Now let me tell you, I don't know a lot about US law, but I ca't imagine that a suspect in a murder case (or involuntary manslaughter case) will be treated this way. I mean, the man still practices medicine! While one of his patients died because of the drugs he gave to him! Maybe he will get a fine or a slap on the wrist. "Bad Dr. Murray, don't do that again!"
If he does get convicted, I have two theories;
1. MJ isn't coming back, but will live the rest of his life in hiding and Murray is 'a victim' in all this.
2. Murray has been 'bought'. He's in debt. He needs money. For the right price, you can buy anyone. So for a couple of million dollars he will go to jail.
Long story short, it can go either way. :D
Hihi, finally someone with a theory at least! I agree and disagree. I don't think that the family has to call out that it's murder. The majority do actually believe that he is dead, and have done that since the minute the news hit the media. We are a small group of people that beLIEve. I don't think that people would've thought it was weird if the family didn't call out murder. They just swallowed the news.
But I agree about that Murray probably not will be convicted. I also believe that Murray can have been bought for exactly this purpose. The time that this trial takes maybe is worth it to him, aspecially if he knows that he probably won't go to prison. And if the money is right. Because as you said, he was in debt. It will be so exciting to follow this trial. Thank you for your answer.
And thank you for starting this topic!
There are so many fishy things going on, during the trial I will be glued to my PC. If it ever comes to a trial, they could postpone to infinity.
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forgot this elvis last tour was called this is elvis michaels this is it as this is michael would have given it away
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forgot this elvis last tour was called this is elvis michaels this is it as this is michael would have given it away
That can ofcourse be a reference to Elvis to make us beLIEve even more but it doesn't have to be. I'm really trying to keep a clear mind in all of this, so I don't see every little similarity with something else as a huge clue. I find these forums a bit clouded, about 30% are great findings and extraordinary clues, but there is also alot of wishful thinking and overanalyzing everything, in my opinion. (I remember a topic that included a pic of Elvis with his arms out on stage and another one with Michael, with his arms out on stage. And the person who posted it was like "wow! this must mean it really is a hoax! they have the same pose!" In my opinion you can find thousands of artists with their arms out on the stage, that is not a huge clue.) That was just an example, but do you see what I mean? Anyone agree?
But still, thanks for sharing, it can be a reference to Elvis death, ofcourse.
I will keep it in mind.
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There is no point going for a Second Degree Murder Charge if there is no evidence to support it because CM under that charge would be acquitted/walk free.
Well, mjjveritas, maybe that is just exactly the point. There are no way he could get convicted for Second degree murder, and that means that he would walk out a free man, which fits perfectly in to the hoaxtheory. Maybe that is why the family wants him to be charged with that. Because he would end up free, everything has seemed believable during the trials and everything was just a show. They know Michael is alive and they wouldn't want an innocent man to go to prison. But instead of saying "Oh, he is alive so no need for this" they want him to be charged with something he never could be convicted for. He would walk out a much richer man, and the hoax could keep on as planned.
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ladyandbird, Thanks for your post. I can see what you're saying but the family don't call the shots. They could call for Murder One or Second Degree Murder all they like but it is not their decision. It sounds good in sound bites, see VH1's fab re-enactment show trailer, I'm thinking of La Toya here, but the prosecutor will not entertain a charge which they can't prove. The prosecution must think they have all the evidence they need to secure a conviction. If the court case proceeds with the existing charge and Conrad Murray is convicted then MJ can stay away and CM does some jail time. Or CM could be convicted and MJ reappears and the conviction is null and void/quashed. Or CM is not convicted and MJ could still appear or CM is not convicted and MJ still plays dead. There's probably some other permutation I can't think of. My fried brain has now turned to mush.
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ladyandbird, Thanks for your post. I can see what you're saying but the family don't call the shots. They could call for Murder One or Second Degree Murder all they like but it is not their decision. It sounds good in sound bites, see VH1's fab re-enactment show trailer, I'm thinking of La Toya here, but the prosecutor will not entertain a charge which they can't prove. The prosecution must think they have all the evidence they need to secure a conviction. If the court case proceeds with the existing charge and Conrad Murray is convicted then MJ can stay away and CM does some jail time. Or CM could be convicted and MJ reappears and the conviction is null and void/quashed. Or CM is not convicted and MJ could still appear or CM is not convicted and MJ still plays dead. There's probably some other permutation I can't think of. My fried brain has now turned to mush.
Yes, I can see your point. It will be very very exciting to see how this will progress and turn out. It's sad if he really does get convicted because I think people would start believe that Michael really is dead then.
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ladyandbird, Indeed. I just don't know how this whole show is going to turn out. I'm not sure who is in on things and who isn't. There's just so many twists and turns, I don't know what to think. It's like nothing else. Will the court case even happen? Who knows what could alter this path? Maybe we are all in an alternate reality, it certainly feels like it. Very odd. Or maybe all of this is a form of mind control/brainwashing. But I ask myself for what ends? All I know is that MJ's a genius, I am not, so who has the advantage?
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1)if murray gets charged that would the perfect time for michael to come out and prove that dea and lapd are corrupted and charged people without proofs.
2) if gets charged and nothing happens it would be a very sad day for me.
3)also if he doesn't get charged at all it would good for me. i'll completely believe that death hoax .
i think i just have to wait and see what happens
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andreita2994, Conrad Murray has already been charged with Involuntary Manslaughter about three weeks ago. Do you not mean convicted?
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I believe that the family acts like it does because they do not want everybody focusing on Murray.
They know that they should appear far more vengeful. So......, they try to act like the reason why they are not going totally mad about Murray is because he is just the fall guy, there is more people. Because truthfully they shoild be doing everything in their power to get the charges changed, and for what I have seen they are not trying hard enough !! So they are well we will just say there are more people involved so that is why we are nopt giving Murray all tyhe attention, (or going after hiom like we should). It also teaches people to leave Murray alone, you start to cool down, when they say oh Murray he is just the fall guy, that,s all.