Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: Sternschen87 on March 30, 2010, 06:07:59 PM
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I know that this video is posted such a long time ago
But I never heard the person breathing so fast. 19-22 sec.
It seems that he is afraid that somebody can see him... I never heard it like this... can you hear the ambulance??? :o
If RTL faked this video why should there be an ambulance in the background?
Sorry if it was mentioned before..
http://www.zonkspace.com/videos/watch/5 ... c2edb3225f (http://www.zonkspace.com/videos/watch/5a90e18ce169e494254fccc2edb3225f)
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Sounds like it could be someone out of breath from running. IDK And I do hear sirens in the backround. So if this is supposed to be a fake video they went to a lot of trouble getting all the little details in there just to see how gullible we all are :lol:
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I'm sorry but I think that video was real. I think when it got leaked they gave a lame excuse talking about it was an experiment to see how fast news and gossip can travel over the internet. Well duh we already know that it don't take a rocket scientist to know this. Making a fake video right after MJ died would be in poor taste as well so I don't buy that excuse. Please.....
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i seriously dont know what to think about this :?
I mean.. or he took a fly the same day, or he was alive in the ambulance.. :S
i dont know what to think.. he cannot be in two places at once!
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I totally agree. The video is real. The whole RTL story was to cover up a huge problem when the real one surfaced.
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I totally agree. The video is real. The whole RTL story was to cover up a huge problem when the real one surfaced.
Didn't they release a second video on how they staged the first video with the coroner's van? It's like what the heck making of the coroner van video. It doesn't make sense. Why would they feel the need to do that if the video was actually fake like they staed in the first place.
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I also think it is real but what Michael had to go before fleeing to the coroner? :roll:
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I think it real as well why go through all that trouble for 30 seconds of footage just don't make sense.
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I'm sorry but I think that video was real. I think when it got leaked they gave a lame excuse talking about it was an experiment to see how fast news and gossip can travel over the internet. Well duh we already know that it don't take a rocket scientist to know this. Making a fake video right after MJ died would be in poor taste as well so I don't buy that excuse. Please.....
I agree it was of very poor taste if they did make a fake vidio of the coroner's van.I dont believe that, I think it was damage control wich could explain why the guy in vid is out of breath, he was chasing the van and was out of breath. The guy then sold his story to the highest bidder wich, correct me if I'm wrong, happened to be some media in Europe or not in USA anyway. Wich brings me to the other thing that has been bothering me. Isnt it a coincidence that media, from another country, just happened to have a van extremely similar to the one used in the USA. Are they all the same? I dont think so. So why on top of waisting their time making a fake vid would they purchase or retailor a van to make sure to convince us, and for the fake story to travel the net so quickly and then just as fast they hurry up and tell us it's fake!!!?
IMO, it was actual footage and not fake. 8-)
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I also think it is real...
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agree .. I also think it's real since the day the video realesed .. :)
I can feel it's really michael ..
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I believe the video was real as well. I have often wondered what happened to the person who actually made the video. Why hasn't he or she come forward? Were they paid off? I have a feeling that it will all eventually come out.
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This video is actually what sparked the possibility for me that MJ could still be alive. That's the initial thing that lead me to this kind of web site. At first when I heard MJ died on the 25th of June I really was convinced that he was dead. Then I saw the video and I was like oh yeah here we go. Something is up. If anybody could pull off a death hoax it could be MJ. I never doubted any celebrity death before but with MJ it's a different story. I just feel he's still around.
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THE SIRENS ARE IMPORTANT!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
THERE ARE NO SIRENS LIKE THAT IN GERMANY, THESE ARE AMERICAN SIRENS!! :D :D
If RTL is right claiming it was done in Germany, as they want us to believe, they have built in the sirens afterwards. Sure, it is possible,but I don`t think that happened. Damage control and sensationalism is all that comes to my mind!
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I think it's real too, I have always thought that, but eveybody I showed it to at home just laughed at me, so I decided to forget all about it. i think it's real cause the person who is filming, starts to breath really fast, when Michael appears. Like he is scared... hell, I would be in shock too.
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I either never believed this video was made by RTL. And I have no idea how the RTL came up with the idea claiming they made the video.That's too rediculous.. Their ''making of'' doesn't even match. :lol:
But I never did hear the breathing before! There is another video filmed from the sky (it has been discussed here already in another thread) where someone appears to be running in to the garage as in hiding. He could be the one filming and hence the breathing.
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I DO BELIEVE THAT THE VIDEO WAS REAL and it was more a damage control action.
when RTL claimed the video was fake i got skeptical. I was not sure of the repute of the channel because I don't belong to Germany. But then soon I came across an interview of mike's which was also was on RTL that convinced me that the Channel is something.
Today I noticed a thing that I never noticed before about the video is that the videomaker did not wait for long, i mean till the driver or some other person comes out of the van. Of course there is possibility that he was scared and rushed back to a safe place but that would have made it even more believable.
Besides guys do you see two people standing outside already while the van arrive. I saw one of them escorting mike but where did (if he really is present) the second one go.
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IMO the RTL video served a double purpose:
1. it brought the idea of a "hoax" / "fake" to a broader public since main stream media news picked it up
(the children knew already because they saw "the ghost of Neverland" on CNN)
2. at the same time it distracted many people from hoax/fake again because for weeks or longer it covered the front entries of google and other search engines.
First result: if people thought of MJ death hoax they just got the RTL fake video (a hoax within a hoax).
Second result: only true real believers found their way through to the forums, the youtube`s and other accounts (for the rest of "random public" our activities were kind of hidden).
Third result: this way a close and rather reliable community of hoax believers could have been established without interference from haters or ridiculing non-believer-fans.
Doesn`t that make sense?
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@aintnosunshine; that definately does make sense; good summary of yours!!
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wow....
The sirenes does not match!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is a great find....
Look at this one:
[youtube:pfhblaie]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfqzmgl2EYw[/youtube:pfhblaie]
Oh my god............
IT IS NO FAKE!!!!!!!!
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(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Bananezorro.gif) Yippie !!!
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So, the only possibility would be that they added US sirens to their made-in-Germany- video. WHICH I DOUBT ;)
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i am almost 100% sure that the video is real and RTL just tried 2 cover up quickly..one of the first vids i watched on youtube which introduced me to the hoax were JonellStarTV's (I LOVE HER VIDS they convinced me of the hoax :) ) and in one vid she shows how the vid is real and the one they made to 'show' us how they did it does not tie in with the original...i thinkk its this one 8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_kDmpb7yo8
u guys should check out all her hoax vids..they are awesommee :D
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I too believe the van vid to be real. I was shocked when RTL made the "making of" vid because what would be the point in making a fake vid to make everyone THINK MJ was alive, then show the making of vid? It made absolutley no anse at all.
It was damage control and there is no doubt about it. The vid of the guy running that was filmed from the sky, I think is the guy who shot the van vid too.
No one ever thought that someone would film something they werent suppose to see, so when the van vid came out, which wasnt part of the plan, then we see the making of vid within a few days.....they dont even match...
AND to top it all off...we had a member on the old MJKIT who went to Los Angeles...I think it was for the burial(???) and she went to the coroners office parking lot and TOOK A PICTURE and posted it, of the VAN WITH THE LICENSE number that was in the original van video....so that proved to me everything.
The van vid is real.
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RTL said they did it because they wanted to prove how easy is to fake things, a short of social experiment.
But this has no sense, they are not sociologists, media don´t usually show how easy is to made up stories, they have to invest money on it (importing USA sirens :lol: ), they had no profit, as the audience was on YT, it was a very delicate moment (would be more justificable now, not then)... not a lot of sense.
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Also, I think if Im not mistaken, someone mentioned at the time that RTL vid came out that it was raining in the video? I dont know what they meant by that.
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Me neither.
Can we recover that?
Was it in the RTL making of video?
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I also think that the van video is real...Because that would match with one of the TMZ articles about MJ being alive at UCLA ;)
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I totally agree. The video is real. The whole RTL story was to cover up a huge problem when the real one surfaced.
I'm saying that since the german RTL claimed that they made the video, because the siren that you hear is an american one, and not a german one...
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I'm sorry but I think that video was real. I think when it got leaked they gave a lame excuse talking about it was an experiment to see how fast news and gossip can travel over the internet. Well duh we already know that it don't take a rocket scientist to know this. Making a fake video right after MJ died would be in poor taste as well so I don't buy that excuse. Please.....
Lol my exact thoughts... i've always believed this video was real and RTL was BS.
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
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sirens don't match, things are missing from the ''Making Of'' video that was in the original..
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It was done on purpose ... viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7969#p130478 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7969#p130478)
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
Yes, it totally loses credibility by their statement.
Also, how could a German station be bought off to say it's fake without rising any suspicion? I also think Michael would not be fit enough to jump out of a van like that after what he went through physically
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
Yes, it totally loses credibility by their statement.
Also, how could a German station be bought off to say it's fake without rising any suspicion? I also think Michael would not be fit enough to jump out of a van like that after what he went through physically
The point being is Michael didnt go thru ANYTHING physically.. He never OD'd on drugs at all. He was fine when he jumped out of that van.
You do know this is a hoax dont you? :lol:
Maybe Im confused as to what you mean....
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
Yes, it totally loses credibility by their statement.
Also, how could a German station be bought off to say it's fake without rising any suspicion? I also think Michael would not be fit enough to jump out of a van like that after what he went through physically
what did he go through? :? :lol:
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
Yes, it totally loses credibility by their statement.
Also, how could a German station be bought off to say it's fake without rising any suspicion? I also think Michael would not be fit enough to jump out of a van like that after what he went through physically
what did he go through? :? :lol:
I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
I couldn't agree with you more Jacksonologist, the RTL version is complete and utter BS it's damage control.
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
If he survived there's a possibility he received protection. But never mind, it's off topic from this thread :). Anyway he wouldn't be fit enough to jump out of a van to my opinion.
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
If he survived there's a possibility he received protection. But never mind, it's off topic from this thread :). Anyway he wouldn't be fit enough to jump out of a van to my opinion.
i'm interested, really. can you PM me about this?
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Why PM?
I think both things are possible.
If all this comes from an attempt of attack that had no o little success, he could dennounce and think about protection etc...
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this theory deserves a topic...
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
If he survived there's a possibility he received protection. But never mind, it's off topic from this thread :). Anyway he wouldn't be fit enough to jump out of a van to my opinion.
i'm interested, really. can you PM me about this?
Ofcourse you can PM if you like ... but it is a lot to write about, if you like to read more about it, most of this was discussed in the "mafia" thread. It is possible he survived a murder plot by people he feared, which is a very good argument to get protection.
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The person sounds genuinly shocked about what he sees. However it is hard to believe it would be real after RTL stated they faked it.
So are you saying you think the van vid is fake simply because RTL said it was?
RTL was HIRED by someone to make a "making of" vid to lead people to BELIEVE it was fake, when in actuality it IS real. They were used as damage control. The RTL version is the fake one.
Yes, it totally loses credibility by their statement.
Also, how could a German station be bought off to say it's fake without rising any suspicion? I also think Michael would not be fit enough to jump out of a van like that after what he went through physically
I think RTL is corrupt enought to be bought off.....Since June 25th the sending a lot about Michael ....and they still do...more than other TV stations in germany...a lot more
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
If he survived there's a possibility he received protection. But never mind, it's off topic from this thread :). Anyway he wouldn't be fit enough to jump out of a van to my opinion.
i'm interested, really. can you PM me about this?
Ofcourse you can PM if you like ... but it is a lot to write about, if you like to read more about it, most of this was discussed in the "mafia" thread. It is possible he survived a murder plot by people he feared, which is a very good argument to get protection.
can you link me to the thread?
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
If he survived there's a possibility he received protection. But never mind, it's off topic from this thread :). Anyway he wouldn't be fit enough to jump out of a van to my opinion.
i'm interested, really. can you PM me about this?
Ofcourse you can PM if you like ... but it is a lot to write about, if you like to read more about it, most of this was discussed in the "mafia" thread. It is possible he survived a murder plot by people he feared, which is a very good argument to get protection.
can you link me to the thread?
Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4287 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4287)
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I believe he indeed went into cardiac arrest and was hospitalised.
then you might as well believed he died..
Not necessarily...
Ok, so he suffered a cardiac arrest and was hospitalized then what happended?
If he survived there's a possibility he received protection. But never mind, it's off topic from this thread :). Anyway he wouldn't be fit enough to jump out of a van to my opinion.
i'm interested, really. can you PM me about this?
Ofcourse you can PM if you like ... but it is a lot to write about, if you like to read more about it, most of this was discussed in the "mafia" thread. It is possible he survived a murder plot by people he feared, which is a very good argument to get protection.
can you link me to the thread?
Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4287 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4287)
i already read page one. i don't need to go further, everything about the mafia theory is stated there. The people Michael had around him (Frank diLeo, Tohme Tohme, Al Malknik etc) have connections to the Mob. Michael was 'deathly scared' of Tohme Tohme. Tohme Tohme took control of Michael's finances, his friends, and staff. them Michael fired him. security increased for Michael drastically and abundantly. then when Michael ''dies'' Tohme Tohme is at the UCLA press conference, and said nothing just sat there. so Tohme Tohme and other's could of attempted to kill Michael but didn't exceed.
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by Aintnosunshine » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:56 am
IMO the RTL video served a double purpose:
1. it brought the idea of a "hoax" / "fake" to a broader public since main stream media news picked it up
(the children knew already because they saw "the ghost of Neverland" on CNN)
2. at the same time it distracted many people from hoax/fake again because for weeks or longer it covered the front entries of google and other search engines.
First result: if people thought of MJ death hoax they just got the RTL fake video (a hoax within a hoax).
Second result: only true real believers found their way through to the forums, the youtube`s and other accounts (for the rest of "random public" our activities were kind of hidden).
Third result: this way a close and rather reliable community of hoax believers could have been established without interference from haters or ridiculing non-believer-fans.
Doesn`t that make sense?
I totally agree with you Aintnosunshine, that the initial van video is really MJ, and that the second was planned to look like damage control, but both were part of the plan. It was the initial van and neverland ghost video that made me think hoax and start getting involved with MJHD site way back. You said it so clearly. Also did anybody see the extended version of the second van video where after Michael jumps out, then out jumps Abraham Lincoln, Lennon, Mohammed and Jesus? I laughed so hard! But I can't find it now. :?
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Weird.
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But the thing is...the vans dont match! The van of the coroner and the video of ''michael'' getting out of the van are different. They have different stickers and different paintings. You just have to compare both of them. The letter font used on the coronrer's van doesnt match the one from the person getting out of the van. The letter ''R'' is different.
So how is it possible, if that video was real, that the two vans doesnt match? They should be the same. This is the only thing that keeps me from believing that that video was real. I would LOVE if someone could prove me wrong, though. :mrgreen:
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I'm sorry but I think that video was real. I think when it got leaked they gave a lame excuse talking about it was an experiment to see how fast news and gossip can travel over the internet. Well duh we already know that it don't take a rocket scientist to know this. Making a fake video right after MJ died would be in poor taste as well so I don't buy that excuse. Please.....
I agree it was of very poor taste if they did make a fake vidio of the coroner's van.I dont believe that, I think it was damage control wich could explain why the guy in vid is out of breath, he was chasing the van and was out of breath. The guy then sold his story to the highest bidder wich, correct me if I'm wrong, happened to be some media in Europe or not in USA anyway. Wich brings me to the other thing that has been bothering me. Isnt it a coincidence that media, from another country, just happened to have a van extremely similar to the one used in the USA. Are they all the same? I dont think so. So why on top of waisting their time making a fake vid would they purchase or retailor a van to make sure to convince us, and for the fake story to travel the net so quickly and then just as fast they hurry up and tell us it's fake!!!?
IMO, it was actual footage and not fake. 8-)
yes I'm agree they made that video of the making of the real video and anything fits. I mean his video explaining the real one doesn't fit on what we can see on the real video
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Also, I think if Im not mistaken, someone mentioned at the time that RTL vid came out that it was raining in the video? I dont know what they meant by that.
I watched "the making video", it was raining during tranporting michael on the road but on the 25th June the weather was fine in LA.. the weather didnt match
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I notice a lot of chrome on wheels of real van and then the second one it is raining
and when they show up close, they hide the wheels, and when it drives, there
doesn't appear to be the same wheels. Of course, that could be it is darker
outside the day they showed us how they "make" the first one. ;)
I do not understand why some people say Michael Jackson left and went out
through Arnie Kleins office. I don't know where Klein's office is, but that seem
false.
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(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Bananezorro.gif) Yippie !!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Love your happy banana dude, really made me laugh. :lol:
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But the thing is...the vans dont match! The van of the coroner and the video of ''michael'' getting out of the van are different. They have different stickers and different paintings. You just have to compare both of them. The letter font used on the coronrer's van doesnt match the one from the person getting out of the van. The letter ''R'' is different.
So how is it possible, if that video was real, that the two vans doesnt match? They should be the same. This is the only thing that keeps me from believing that that video was real. I would LOVE if someone could prove me wrong, though. :mrgreen:
Anything is possible, perhaps there was a second coroner's van hiding and that is the one Michael took. Maybe the person chasing that van we see in the "fake" vid noticed something odd and decided to go see for himself/herself OR the person happened to spot a coroner van and chased it assuming they would capture MJ's dead body coming out of the coroner's van but to their surprise(or not) what they found was an alive MJ walking out of the van. Who knows really but I am sure the discrepencies between the stickers on the van could easily be explained. IMO
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But the thing is...the vans dont match! The van of the coroner and the video of ''michael'' getting out of the van are different. They have different stickers and different paintings. You just have to compare both of them. The letter font used on the coronrer's van doesnt match the one from the person getting out of the van. The letter ''R'' is different.
So how is it possible, if that video was real, that the two vans doesnt match? They should be the same. This is the only thing that keeps me from believing that that video was real. I would LOVE if someone could prove me wrong, though. :mrgreen:
Anything is possible, perhaps there was a second coroner's van hiding and that is the one Michael took. Maybe the person chasing that van we see in the "fake" vid noticed something odd and decided to go see for himself/herself OR the person happened to spot a coroner van and chased it assuming they would capture MJ's dead body coming out of the coroner's van but to their surprise(or not) what they found was an alive MJ walking out of the van. Who knows really but I am sure the discrepencies between the stickers on the van could easily be explained. IMO
@nakiska; that is the only thing that keeps me hesitating. Jenny, I hope you are right, but real evidence is missing. The sirens are definately no german sirens; such ones really absolutely do not exist in Germany .
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@RAVEN
Thanks for giving the mafia topic: very interesting, I oversaw that one! :idea:
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Great thread. Does somebody have the technical expertise to post the photos and the lack of congruencies?
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Has anyone mentioned the figure that we can see running after the van in the helicopter shot of the van going into the underground garage?
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@RAVEN
Thanks for giving the mafia topic: very interesting, I oversaw that one! :idea:
You're welcome :)
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Has anyone mentioned the figure that we can see running after the van in the helicopter shot of the van going into the underground garage?
yes i've watched this part extensively. That guy doesnt follow the van into the garage, there is noone running in behind the van and there is another van that pulls right in behind the one "MJ was in". so I dont believe the video of MJ hopping out is real. was it done only as a hoax? i dont this or then the "making of" video. I could believe as someone stated earlier, maybe it was only made to bring up the "hoax" idea. so we would start taking a look at details.
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If you are a professional at making video content (and my husband is) you would definitely put sound in the video. You cannot say this video is wrong because you hear American sirens. A good video editor would add sounds like that.
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i think a videoauditor would add something like:
HE IS ALIVEE!!!!! OH MY GOD......
:mrgreen:
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If you are a professional at making video content (and my husband is) you would definitely put sound in the video. You cannot say this video is wrong because you here American sirens. A good video editor would add sounds like that.
Aren´t they talking her about the sierens itself, not just theis sound?
Also possible to do with edition... but wow, what a masking work!
It woud be easier and cheaper buy them in the USA.
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I will check it later
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It makes you wonder--why would the video be made in Germany of all places? Germany is the key?
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It makes you wonder--why would the video be made in Germany of all places? Germany is the key?
Jermain is the key also.
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Indeed. Ties in with the statement, "...on our way to the airport."
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If you are a professional at making video content (and my husband is) you would definitely put sound in the video. You cannot say this video is wrong because you here American sirens. A good video editor would add sounds like that.
Aren´t they talking her about the sierens itself, not just theis sound?
Also possible to do with edition... but wow, what a masking work!
It woud be easier and cheaper buy them in the USA.
Are you talking about Liquid Edition?
I was basically talking about doing the whole audio to lay on the time line to sync. This would be pretty easy.
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No, sorry, I´m saying that I think people are talking about the sirens that you can see (not only hear) in the video... but let me check up there...
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Don´t know now...
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PLEASE SCROLL DOWN!!!
okay this is the ultimate proof:
1) it was made in DÜSSELDORF..GERMANY
means... no us sirens of an american ambulance...
2) look at these pictures... I just compared... the one with the hoop i found in the internet...
In german TV they put on the stickers?!? in usa not?!!? very strange.....
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we got you... haha.... i love the media... i don't believe anymore anything what the media says... NOTHING !!!!
I love you michael... thank you for opening our eyes....
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okay this is the ultimate proof:
1) it was made in DÜSSELDORF..GERMANY
means... no us sirens of an american ambulance...
2) look at these pictures... I just compared... the one with the hoop i found in the internet...
In german TV they put on the stickers?!? in usa not?!!? very strange.....
Let´s see it here, as the right pic on the second row can´t be appreciated:
[youtube:g478tr1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0Ogaskv88[/youtube:g478tr1w]
1) it was made in DÜSSELDORF..GERMANY
means... no us sirens of an american ambulance...
We´ve said that if the usa sirens are just sound, it can be added editing. So, someone from Germany can confirm if it´s only a usa sound or also a usa siren in the image?
Anyway it can be shipped.
2) look at these pictures... I just compared... the one with the hoop i found in the internet...
Both have a hoop, but what does it prove?
In german TV they put on the stickers?!? in usa not?!!? very strange.....
Sorry, that´s not true... watch the video to see it.
The stickers are there.
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NO NO, YOU´RE RIGHT!
THE STICKERS ARE NOT THERE!!!!!!!
Stop at 00:10!!!
:shock: :o :o :o :o :o :o
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The van used is not even the same! :o
Look at the stickers pic and see that there´s a cut on it´s latteral surface... what seems a door... But in the video there´s no lateral door apart from the copilot door... :o
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OMG yes there are NO stickers!!! :o :shock: :D
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This is one of the biggest proof we have!!!!
At least this proves that the RTL video has no relation with the YT one!
Tomorrow I will spare some time taking good captions from this if nobody does before.
This is HUGE!
Thank you Sternschen87!
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Ok... there are three versions??? :o :o :o
RTL has made a fake of a fake... because.... I see that also the coroner is a fake..
but I believe it was not from RTL
I truly believe it was an inizial from michael.... to get us on the way of the hoax...
because michael used the airplane... MJ AIR :mrgreen:
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damn you cannot see it goood..
1) the stickers are made on the fake RTL on the middle of the vehicle..
on the real one there are NO stickers
on the RTL one in the front
2) on the real coroner there is something written under the plate and under the blue line
neither on RTL nor on the internet...
3) the bolt is different... on the RTL and the internet...
the real one is very thin...
4) the real hub cap is white....
what do you think??ß
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I´ve downloaded it and I see it better than there.
Still we need to work in good pictures together to finally prove them all.
The arrow blue stickers of the back door has always being very clear to me.
The one from the ambo with the chopper are very sharp, the others are wide.
But what I see in this picture is that in the RTL video they also use the ambo without the stickers! What a mess!
I have to look again and compare the two videos, maybe the bottom pic is from before they stick the stickers...
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[youtube:3m3gezme]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvgnXRwd9G8[/youtube:3m3gezme]
Let´s see the whole video...
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so what does this prove? :?
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Live video from the chopper:
*White hup cap.
*Narrow arrows.
*Labels under the plaque.
*Labels under the blue line.
The original video of MJ coming out the van:
*It is very dark, so I can´t see if the hup cap is white.
*The arrow is wide.
*No label under the plaque.
*No label under the blue line.
RTL video:
*No matter how the hup cap is, as we can´t see the other.
*The man putting the stickers is working in the pilot door...
The main shoot from behind also shows that the copilot door is the one with the stickers.
So this part is not a proof.
*The arrow is wide.
*No label under the plaque.
*No label under the blue line.
:( I think we have nothing here with this...
Sometime I hate we´re serious investigators! :cry:
I´m sorry to say that you may change the thread title again and let it as new revision...
:(
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You know what, I think it was MJ finally. :shock:
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:lol:
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But the thing is...the vans dont match! The van of the coroner and the video of ''michael'' getting out of the van are different. They have different stickers and different paintings. You just have to compare both of them. The letter font used on the coronrer's van doesnt match the one from the person getting out of the van. The letter ''R'' is different.
So how is it possible, if that video was real, that the two vans doesnt match? They should be the same. This is the only thing that keeps me from believing that that video was real. I would LOVE if someone could prove me wrong, though. :mrgreen:
Anything is possible, perhaps there was a second coroner's van hiding and that is the one Michael took. Maybe the person chasing that van we see in the "fake" vid noticed something odd and decided to go see for himself/herself OR the person happened to spot a coroner van and chased it assuming they would capture MJ's dead body coming out of the coroner's van but to their surprise(or not) what they found was an alive MJ walking out of the van. Who knows really but I am sure the discrepencies between the stickers on the van could easily be explained. IMO
True! Could it be the reason why the van that supposed to take Mike park and take turn really slow? To distract attention because there's a second van somewhere ?
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There was a video on youtube showing the real coroners garage/drive-in.
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I have gone back and forth with myself as to whether or not the video was real but regardless there is one thing that I keep in mind. Back when this first came out we were all using mjkitforumotion.com and there was a member there by the name of Jordan who e-mailed the coroner's office regarding the license plate numbers on the vans. Craig Harvey responded that the license plate number in question did not belong to the LA Coroner's Office. Upon further inspection of the license plates from the news media footage of June 25th and the video of MJ jumping out of the van, the license plate numbers are the same. So regardless of how you view the video in question, why would the coroner's office deny having that license plate number on their vehicle when it is so plainly seen by the entire world?
I do not have the link to this but if someone here still has that old information and can post it that would be great. Thanks.
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Thank you guys for your thorough investigation!!
After all the watching and the reading I did, I can only say that the motivation of RTL is highly suspect.First they show us what believers doubt to be the truth (helicopter moving body etc.), then,as a climax they show that vanvideo, which 700000 people watched. After that they show the impersonator stating to him it looks real. And then the Bravoguy who says people do not know a life without MJ and that is why they think it is MJ jumping out of the van. Then comes RTL;"but it Is not true, we made that video"......WTH. So, there aim was to proof he REALLY is dead! With such a video? Tasteless, sarcastic,insulting!If they really lied to proof he is dead they would have proven why the dead body moved in the helicopter, what was on with the DC,and so on.
To me, this is damagecontrol or sensationalism.
About the sirens; I am in USA once a month and am living in Germany, so I definately know about these sirens. Is it possible to check whether the sirens were added and edited?I know you can download all sorts of "noises", would there be any information hiddden about that in the vid, that we could find out? I will try to look for some info about that.
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I think this video is a fake.
Because, why the cameraman is zooming on the van before the door was entirely closed ? To show us a good image of the van for compare the vans ?
If I was this guy, who saw the van, and then mj, and then mj leaving at a door, I would not zoom on the van but on the door; because of surprise.
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that video was not the video i saw 3 months ago. MJ landed on both feet and nothing was seen but the top of his head and shoes. that dude reminded me of tommy davidson playing MJ on living color! :lol: :lol:
or maybe... my minds playing tricks on me... oh no!
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Hi to all ,any body else have compare the location?
I never post this photo frame I made from the 2 different video,but to me is not the same garage.have a look
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If you listen carefully, at around 23-28 seconds of the video, you can faintly hear people cheering and hollering from inside the building after Michael and the bodyguard enter through the door. :shock:
http://www.zonkspace.com/videos/watch/5a90e18ce169e494254fccc2edb3225f
Are they cheering because Michael pulled off the hardest part of the hoax successfully?
Or is the cheering from RTL, because they thought they had pulled off their cruel stunt successfully, using a 'pretend' Michael to trick us all? :shock:
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I really believe that there are 3 versions,....
All the night i was online and investigated :geek: #
1) the van at the helicopter does not match with the RTL version nor with the 1 min version
no way.. I am sorry the van video is not real!!! :? :cry: I also hoped so... no way :cry:
BUT
2) when I compared the rtl version with one min version... it does not match either
the garage is a joke...the 1m is very big... the other one too small...the entrance at rtl is splitted in two, the 1m not, the gitter does not match.. one van is bigger than the other one..
the color of the door does not match
Later I will show you a summary of the pictures.... so you can comment
but why does RTL make a hoax of a hoax??°?°?
and who made the van video???
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Wishing to see your work!
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The RTL video was one of the milestones in this storybook to add fog and confusion for all spectators.
We have to look at 3 vans, not 2.
a) one van used in the chopper video said to have been taken on June 25, 2009 - it's the van with the car plate 1276020 that goes underground into the "coroner"s building"
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/v/WYSbGUFcbMg[/YouTube]
The van was photographed / the pictures published by a hoaxer in October 2009:
http://http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2009/10/la-coroners-van.html (http://http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2009/10/la-coroners-van.html)
The coroner's van with the car plate 1276020 has a sticker saying: "Don't abandon your baby".
[attachment=4]Van_1_chopper.jpg[/attachment]
b) one van used in the "Michael is alive" video
originally leaked here:
http://http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b8_1251194026 (http://http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b8_1251194026)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOCO3qsQMTg[/youtube]
Interestingly the youtube versions had higher quality than the original liveleak video.
c) one van used in the "Making of "Michael is alive"" video claimed to have been produced by RTL (in German)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fwkGPOGy1k[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEw_u05T740[/youtube]
http://http://vip.rtl.de/cms/stars/michael-jackson-lebt-video.php? (http://http://vip.rtl.de/cms/stars/michael-jackson-lebt-video.php?)
This gives a transcript of the German TV show "RTL Explosiv":
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19157897/Michael-Jackson-Alive-Hoax-RTL-explosiv-faked-the-video (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/19157897/Michael-Jackson-Alive-Hoax-RTL-explosiv-faked-the-video)
For the researchers in here: all information on this subject are to be found in the MJKIT forum archive on this site. Thread http://mjkit.forumotion.net/breaking-news-f3/guy-pls-check-this-outpls-let-it-be-real-t721.htm (http://http://mjkit.forumotion.net/breaking-news-f3/guy-pls-check-this-outpls-let-it-be-real-t721.htm) gives a lot of information.
The sticker on van a) is being used on several vans of L.A. coroner, e.g.:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58598168@N00/2346684575 (http://http://www.flickr.com/photos/58598168@N00/2346684575)
However it is not available on van b) and c).
I checked the videos and the vans very closely.
There are some differences in between the vans a) or b) and c) (see old forum).
b) "Alive" van and c) "Making of" van is the same van.
Unfortunately, the "Michael is alive" video has a lot in common with the "RTL Making of" video.
I focused on comparisons of the floor, ceiling and doors because this is the hardest job to make look equal if you don't use the same building for two movies (e.g. you are re-producing a movie in a studio).
I did not focus on the sound of a US sirene or someone breathing heavily because that is easy to add - RTL are producing movies and have a vaste archive of US movies - so no problem to add that sound.
I did not focus on the "wet" or "not wet" street because the van could have entered the building several times while shooting the video. I did not focus on the stripes and arrow in the "Alive" video since this can be glued temporarily on the floor.
As to floor:
entry in both videos is going upwards and narrow.
"Alive" video:
[attachment=3]o_greenshot_2010-04-02_HQ0021.jpg[/attachment]
"Making of" video:
[attachment=2]rtl_greenshot_2010-04-02_0002.jpg[/attachment]
As to doors:
There are three doors on the right side that are being passed after the gate and in front of the corner:
a grey one, a green one with light and another grey one
"Alive" video - the last two doors:
[attachment=3]o_greenshot_2010-04-02_HQ0021.jpg[/attachment]
"Alive" video - the third door:
[attachment=1]o_greenshot_2010-04-02_HQ006.jpg[/attachment]
"Alive" video - the offset of the second green door:
[attachment=0]o_greenshot_2010-04-02_007.jpg[/attachment]
to be continued (max attachments per post)
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"Making of" video:
[attachment=0:2ecqxxu2]rtl_video_garage_2.jpg[/attachment:2ecqxxu2]
I concluded that RTL indeed did produce the "Alive" video.
Why they did it remains to their explanation. I do not believe in the "experiment".
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I completly agree with you Grace!
And they are not interested in completly debunk the alive video.
It should be as easy as showing a bit of the editting tracks and footage not used.
In the RTL video they put some images showing a RTL worker doing as if he was doing something like editing, but he´s not, he´s watching the YT video... wouldn´t it be normal/easier to show a bit of someone editing for real?
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Very good aanlysis !
The explanation why? Well, I thought on that - as I posted earlier in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7969&sid=9c503b43f620f90afda70095a23908cd#p130478 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7969&sid=9c503b43f620f90afda70095a23908cd#p130478)
What do you think?
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In the RTL video they put some images showing a RTL worker doing as if he was doing something like editing, but he´s not, he´s watching the YT video... wouldn´t it be normal/easier to show a bit of someone editing for real?
I have read yours and Grace's analyses with great interest. So, if I understand correctly, either the one we saw originally is real, or it was done by RTL. But the debunking is strange because it shows the different steps, instead of showing the editing process, which would make it more authentic.
Therefore, if I understand correctly, we still do not know if the original video is real or not.
Could it be that this will be used some time in the near future to show how we were fooled by the media? Maybe this is a piece of the puzzle that will eventually fit in with others when Michael will reveal himself? I am thinking that he will do it by video, as he did in 1993 and 2005. He will show how we were fooled, perhaps using this video as an example. Just a thought.
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If you look closely at the video's details only inside of the garage, you'll notice that they are about the same location. The shooting angles differ since they use a shoulder camera in the "alive" video and several stationary ones in the "Making of".
The "Alive" video is not real but an RTL production as the "Making of".
Unfortunately.
Production happened most likely in a German hotel garage.
However: this does not lead to the assumption that MJ is dead or that he is NOT directing this.
MJ has very good friends in Germany and RTL belongs to a huge media group operating in the US and Europe.
Some potential reasons for the publication were well explained by aintnosunshine.
The video did cause an uproar around the globe - and RTL explaining it was a hoax did confront a huge public for the first time with a possibile existance of a hoax in this story.
It was sowing the seeds of hoax to those who had not yet thought about that.
August was still "collecting" period. Collecting interested folks into forums.
Like calling for auditions to get them into the direction you wanted them to turn.
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Yes, I think those are the right conclusions too.
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This is certainly one of the most interesting aspects of the hoax that has been touched upon. Really deep. I know absolutely nothing about marketing, but I presume that it is the work of a genius.
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that is what i found... with the garage has already been posted
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I still think it's real ;)
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ok... just for you :-)
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so what does this prove? that the Coroner video of Michael jumping out is REAL?
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so what does this prove? that the Coroner video of Michael jumping out is REAL?
YES it does !!! THANKYOU sternchen !
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sorrry it does not....
there is one version of the coroner...
one version of the leaked video
one version of RTL
3 versions....
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there are three different plates of licence...
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(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Bananezorro.gif) Yippie !!!
Okay now I'm happy and excited again!!
Yep those are like the standard US sirens.
I've heard em enough to know 'em when i hear 'em!
WhoooHoooooooooo!!!! :D :D :D :D
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Oh eff it I'm confused again! :? :? :?
C'mon TRUTH!! and prevail already!!!!
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Oh eff it I'm confused again! :? :? :?
C'mon TRUTH!! and prevail already!!!!
We're on the same page!! :lol:
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sorrry it does not....
there is one version of the coroner...
one version of the leaked video
one version of RTL
3 versions....
but I think " one version of the leaked video" and "one version of RTL" doesn't match each other .. and this is the biggest proof if the leaked video was real .. :roll: :?
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sorrry it does not....
there is one version of the coroner...
one version of the leaked video
one version of RTL
3 versions....
but I think " one version of the leaked video" and "one version of RTL" doesn't match each other .. and this is the biggest proof if the leaked video was real .. :roll: :?
This is what I think too ;)
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I totally agree. The video is real. The whole RTL story was to cover up a huge problem when the real one surfaced.
I agree too. I didn't buy the RTL's 'story'.
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If that was Michael Jackson coming out of the van for me he seems short.. Isn't Mj around 5"10?? This person looks shorter than 5"10.. What do you think?
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have you scrolled down my pictures??
Can you see the three different plates and the different area??
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If that was Michael Jackson coming out of the van for me he seems short.. Isn't Mj around 5"10?? This person looks shorter than 5"10.. What do you think?
Hmm, don't know. But if he is Michael Jackson he just might look short, since he is standing next to a bodyguard, and bodyguards are usually pretty tall... I think.
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If that was Michael Jackson coming out of the van for me he seems short.. Isn't Mj around 5"10?? This person looks shorter than 5"10.. What do you think?
Hmm, don't know. But if he is Michael Jackson he just might look short, since he is standing next to a bodyguard, and bodyguards are usually pretty tall... I think.
Exactly, he doesn't need bodyguards that are smaller than him ;)
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I think you should better share this with us..
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I think you should better share this with us..
What exactly do you mean?
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I think you should better share this with us..
What exactly do you mean?
Oops. Wrong thread. How does the corono's van conform with MJ's activities?