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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 08, 2009, 03:21:20 PM
Has anyone looked into the doctor that pronounced his death?  I can't seem to find anything on Dr. R. Cooper.

This is interesting... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  Did you guys know that at the UCLA press conference Jermaine said Dr. Tohme was MJ's personal doctor, not Murray, and that he was at the house with him?  This is the first time I've heard that.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

*

DooDoo

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 08, 2009, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Murder is not always a crime.
Especially not if we are talking performance art.
Exactly. Couldn't have said it better  ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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you are my life


speechless, that\'s how you make me feel

I want a hippopotamus for Christmas

*

Zen

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 08, 2009, 10:55:22 PM
virgo75 wrote:Hello all;


After reading these papers I am about 75% believing that he is dead. :(

#1 - these papers have too much detailed information to be fake
#2 - you can print out fake papers, but to file affadavits and legally open case material can't really be faked

And given the information in the papers about the medications, it leads me to
#3 - the family's reactions to mj's "death."

If these papers and/or reports of him having an addiction or over dependance on medications are true, then how his family is reacting - unemotional - is quite normal. Having dealt with family members suffering with addictions, it's like a long, drawn out death. You try to intervene(as Janet said they did), but ultimately, have no control over the addicts choices. Even if their choices are going to ultimately cause their demise. And when you do lose such a family member, you tend to be more numb and/or angry than grief stricken. You're angry over their choices and how they threw away their gifts, talents, and family's love for some chemicals. And numb because you've been watching this person die for Y.E.A.R.S. It's not a sudden "shock." It's an expected end and sometimes it's almost a relief because at least you know that that person is in a better place(hopefully), and you're no longer waiting for "the call" that tells you that your loved one is gone.

I've gone over and over the "clues" but many seem far reaching by those of us in love with endless hope that he is still alive and we're waiting and wanting to see him alive and happy. I want this too. But I don't believe it to be.

I'll continue to lurk as I'll probably be chased off of here after this post.
I just felt the need to share.


I think you should continue to post and state your opinion and findings.  8-)
The "problem" with this, is that the title says "Murder Investigation"..and if that is true, then I
believe the family should at least (for Appearance sake!) show more outrage and shock.
I for one, could not believe my eyes when I saw the photos of Jermaine with a Jackson 5 shirt on
a couple of days after Michael's death!  What was he trying to say..."remember me?!"
If it turns out to be TRUE that Michael was murdered..then I will truely HATE his family..as they
have done nothing but jet-set around the world for interviews, concerts, ect.  and I seriously hope it
back-fires on them.
And while on this subject, it "could" be, that some of Michaels REAL friends did not attend the
funeral because they could not stand the "grandstanding" of some of the family members.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

hope

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 08, 2009, 11:04:00 PM
Zen, I really agree with you. I cant even look at the Jackson family right now except for his beautiful children.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Grace

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 08, 2009, 11:08:27 PM
Did it cross your mind that for murder there are at least 4 options available?
(we did not look enough into this at all)

- murder of MJ
- murder of somebody else (date 25/06/2009)
- murder of somebody else (other date)
- murder as performance art (a fake of a fake is no crime)

Heads up please.
Does anybody know whether Tenderoni is with us ? He knew quite a bit about jurisdiction.
Maybe somebody could contact Tenderoni please? Txs.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

*

Tay3

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 12:35:27 AM
Well, this is something to think about, but we just have to wait and see what happens to Dr. Murray if and when he is charged with anything. That's the key to all of this IMO. But I feel very sure of one thing... the claims about him being dead in his home long before being taken to the hospital can't be true. If that really is MJ in the ambulance picture, he's definitely not dead. I have a nursing background and have seen people in this type of distress... (not breathing, weak or no pulse)... and the color of their skin can range from bluish purple to very ashen gray. Not only the face is discolored, but also areas of the chest and shoulders. I'm convinced that WAS NOT a dead person in the ambulance :!:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 08:07:57 AM
Thank you for the kind welcome and not coming after me with torches and pitch forks!  :lol:


I don't like how most of his family, ok, JERMAINE(wait, add Joe too) is acting either.  
It's evident that Michael was surrounded by opportunists who didn't give a flying fig about his well being.
Even some members of his own family seem this way which is really sad.   :(

And as for his family showing more outrage and shock- if he had a problem with medications and surrounded himself with leeches who would get them for him, then there's really no shock there that he would end up dead.  It was just a matter of time.  When you're dealing with people who have addictions, one thing you learn is that they escalate.  They only grow and get worse.  And Michael was a man with endless amounts of money and resources to get whatever he wanted...  It's really a miracle that there weren't a bunch of overdose scares where he ended up in the hospital from taking too much of something by accident.  

And how can you be outraged when these are the people that Michael may have chosen to surround himself with so that he could get the medications that he wanted?  Again, the main emotions would probably be: anger, frustration, and numbness.  He had endless resources for help if he did have a problem.  

We're looking at this from a fan's point of view instead of a family member.  
They were the ones who got to see ALL of his sides - good and bad.
They were the ones who got to worry endlessly about their son/brother being surrounded by horrible people because they give him what he wants.
They were the ones who got to stage futile interventions while watching their loved one deteriorate and slowly edge closer to their demise by their own hands.

We got to appeciate what he had to offer the world with his talent and generosity.
Did/do we REALLY know him?????
No.
We can feel like we did/do, but we didn't/don't.

As far as it being someone else who died, I guess that's possible.  But unless they legally changed their name to "Michael Joseph Jackson" then that person is not who's murder is being investigated...

I agree that the ambulance photo looks wrong, years old.  Which was one of my main reasons for doubting his death.
But then again, I think there's a lot more going on than what we're being allowed to see.  There may be other reasons why we've never seen a real pic of him in the ambulance.  And why some things don't add up.  I'm just becoming less hopeful that one of those reasons is that he's alive and happy.   :(

edited to add:  All of what I'm writing is assuming that he *did* have an addiction/dependancy problem as has been stated in the paperwork linked above as well as by his own family members and friends.  Sure, it could be a cover, but why unanimously slander him so he could fake his "death?"  It would also make the family less assertive in his "murder" as they can't really be sure that it's a "murder" if he was an addict who demanded too many medications.  Drug dealers aren't charged with murder because their clients overdose.
Sorry this is so long.   :oops:
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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Quote from: "Tay3"
Well, this is something to think about, but we just have to wait and see what happens to Dr. Murray if and when he is charged with anything. That's the key to all of this IMO. But I feel very sure of one thing... the claims about him being dead in his home long before being taken to the hospital can't be true. If that really is MJ in the ambulance picture, he's definitely not dead. I have a nursing background and have seen people in this type of distress... (not breathing, weak or no pulse)... and the color of their skin can range from bluish purple to very ashen gray. Not only the face is discolored, but also areas of the chest and shoulders. I'm convinced that WAS NOT a dead person in the ambulance :!:



I agree, he didn't look like a dead man, no way.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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LOOK WITH YOUR HEART...


*

Lou

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 05:04:49 PM
I opened the pdf file and checked the document. I noticed that the first page shows a date: November, 20th. It says "Filed november, 20th".  

We know that dr Murray was allowed to go back to work. The news reporting he was back to work was released by TMZ on November 23rd (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).  

What I find odd is that 3 days after the investigation turns into a murder investigation,  the prime suspect - a doctor - is allowed to practice medicine again. Unless I misunderstood something, he was already the target of a murder investigation, when he was allowed to go back to his work. It still doesn't make sense to me. :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 05:28:23 PM
Am i right in thinking that if a person isn't charged with a crime they are free to go i.e free to work etc...looks like the police can't make their minds up on what to charge Murray with plus, think about all the evidence they have to go through...You would expect the Jacksons to not rest until justice is done but, they all seem to be moving on and getting on with life. If i was Murray i would be sh**ting myself thinking about the charges that may/maynot be brought against me - how can he function with this on his mind? How is he not sick with worry? Something is just not right!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Where there is L.O.V.E I\'ll be there

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 05:33:42 PM
Well I don't know about you guys but I think he looked better in the ambulance than he did in This is It.  How is that possible?  

The fact that all these documents have TMZ or whoever across them on every page, does that make a difference?  Maybe if you put that then you can say well look it was our own documents which were produced in association with Mr Jackson simply for a movie he is making?  I do not know the legalities of it maybe someone with a legal background would know.  Most of the information could be put down as that because if the Media choose to take a statement from Jermaine and then footage put out by the Jacksons as being gospel well then that is their problem.  Has anyone seen anything from a regular source as opposed to TMZ ET or other such places.  It is all really odd.
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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 05:44:12 PM
The ambulance picture was obviously a fake.  That person had the fullest face with the rosiest cheeks I ever saw on a dead person.  FAKE.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

*

mumof3

Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 05:47:13 PM
Why would a proffesional doctor when dealing with an emergency of the highest life or death situation call a young boy the son of the patient up to see what is goin on it cant be true I have never heard of such a cruel thing to do too a young son if it is true he should be in deep trouble for doing such could understand if he was an adult but no way a child the Doctor should have been to busy to even think of such a thing  and should have made sure the children could not witness any traumatic scenes that would scar them for life.
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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 06:19:11 PM
Quote from: "AnnieIsNotOK"
If Michael Jackson was murder,than I find his family is handeling it very well! :shock: To loose a familly member is very hard but murder!!I don't know but the grieving process  would be impossible for me until justice was served...I would have lots of anger feelings and I would yell for justice.To me none of his family member behave likes this is a murder.

I'm with you on this AnnieIsNotOk...especially since anger is a much easier emotion to deal with than grief. I watched my Mom become a different person when we buried my Uncle on the 4th and he died in his sleep unexpectedly. I can't imagine what my family would have been like if he'd have died from negligence or intent.
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She\'s consumed,
With everything that\'s been going on.
She says,
Whatever happens...don\'t let go of my hand.


Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation
December 09, 2009, 06:55:09 PM
PLEASE PLEASE DON'T WORRY.  These documents have been discussed at length on the old MJHD and on our forum, they were originally published by TMZ (of course), I can't find them on TMZ but you'll see them on this link to our forum-
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
this has the link to TMZ, on the tmz docs the addresses are shown and amongst other inconsistencies/errors in the search warrants is that the address stated for Applied Pharmacy Services is 6370 W Flamingo, THERE IS NO SUCH BUSINESS AT THIS ADDRESS, there were searches done with google maps and all sorts of things (sorry can't find all the postings) Applied Pharmacy is at 2851 N Tenaya Way, Ste 202.  If there are any errors in a search warrant it is nullified and an address is EXTREMELY important, that's why they go into so much detail describing the building etc. so there is no doubt, other errors that spring to mind are the spelling of Grace Rwanda's name (Orwanda) (not sure of my spellings here!!) anyway I was VERY shocked by this at first but it has been looked at SO KEEP THE FAITH  :)
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