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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 28, 2010, 08:05:17 PM
Oh i didnt read your post ,  i dont visit this site more often ,  but i would like to read it , can u paste or  pm that post to me if you still have it , Godbless
Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 10:44:25 AM by mjj_fan
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 28, 2010, 09:03:24 PM
Sorry, I had to go.

Oh, I didn't save it, but it was very similar to your analysis. I wanted to point out some things that in my opinion were not totally accurate in this analisys, but then it became in a "Copyright fight" lol and I left the thread!.

I do like to see some other views on this!.

God bless you too.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 29, 2010, 10:57:24 AM
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    above shows abnormal rhythms
     
                 If the rhythm is truly asystole and has been present for more than several seconds, the patient will be unconscious and unresponsive. A few agonal (final gasping) breaths may be noted, but detectable heart sounds and palpable peripheral pulses are absent. based on that , may be thats what dr murray initially found mj breathing  which require immidiate CPR and  life  saving DRUGS
 
    but if mj was breathing spontaneously , there was nothing to do except to make a recovery position means tilt him by his side to avoid any gastric contents or vomit aspiration in the lungs  and place an immidiate call for help    
       even i m confused in which state mj was found in the room , since asystole is a flat line , i wonder  why frank said mj wasnt flat line in the hospital may be he was in ventricular fibrillation or tachycardia both arrthymias with high mortality rates and thats what frank told the press , i can only guess !
Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 04:21:39 PM by mjj_fan
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 29, 2010, 11:03:54 AM
okay this one shows rhythms changing within seconds and how one should recognise them before  dangerous arrhythmias like ventricular fibrillation and tachycardia devolop which finally ends up in asystole


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Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 04:20:00 PM by mjj_fan
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 29, 2010, 12:03:44 PM
@mjj_fan
Do you have any questions about heart rhythms?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 29, 2010, 09:04:02 PM
Quote from: "mjj_fan"
1. ACLS  and asystole well defined  BUT according to guidelines 2005 , its absolute indication to administer  45 mins CPR  unless someone is labelled  DNR  wihich means do not resustitae when we think prolonging patients life wont do any better like in cancer terminal patients and the list is huge very rare but  patient actually revived by CPR  so we dont take risk  by leaving them
It is actually incredibly rare to go to 45 minutes (or even close to) of resuscitation with no improving rhythm change. ACLS actually recommends termintation of efforts within 10 minutes. However, most medical control doctors do not feel comfortable with that (nor do I), and have set in their protocols anywhere from 15-25 minutes. It's extremely rare to go over that.
And, of course, there are many more reasons to not even begin CPR let alone continue it.  :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Elsa

Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 29, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
Many people have pointed out flaws inconsistencies and the ridiculous in the autopsy report on this site.  
The rare cervical bone C7 was my first clue that it could not be real. That's why I had the idea of rearranging letters in names in the Coroners case report and other hoax names.

I posted a thread on TMZ live 25-06-2010 Part 1-4 Hash v Pot.

In Part 2 Harvey in answering a question, invites questioning of the autopsy report .
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~Souza~Topic starter

Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 30, 2010, 07:48:35 AM
Quote from: "Elsa"
Many people have pointed out flaws inconsistencies and the ridiculous in the autopsy report on this site.  
The rare cervical bone C7 was my first clue that it could not be real. That's why I had the idea of rearranging letters in names in the Coroners case report and other hoax names.

I posted a thread on TMZ live 25-06-2010 Part 1-4 Hash v Pot.

In Part 2 Harvey in answering a question, invites questioning of the autopsy report .

Yes, I heard Harvey say it was Hash instead of Pot on TMZ live. He said his source absolutely knew what he was talking about, haha. Didn't the autopsy report mention Marihuana was found and not Hash? I'm not sure, I can't check it here at work.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 30, 2010, 07:50:21 AM
Asystole and Pulseless Electrical Activity (Box 9)
PEA encompasses a heterogeneous group of pulseless rhythms that includes pseudo-electromechanical dissociation (pseudo-EMD), idioventricular rhythms, ventricular escape rhythms, postdefibrillation idioventricular rhythms, and bradyasystolic rhythms. Research with cardiac ultrasonography and indwelling pressure catheters has confirmed that pulseless patients with electrical activity have associated mechanical contractions, but these contractions are too weak to produce a blood pressure detectable by palpation or noninvasive blood pressure monitoring. PEA is often caused by reversible conditions and can be treated if those conditions are identified and corrected.

The survival rate from cardiac arrest with asystole is dismal. During a resuscitation attempt, brief periods of an organized complex may appear on the monitor screen, but spontaneous circulation rarely emerges. As with PEA, the hope for resuscitation is to identify and treat a reversible cause.

Because of the similarity in causes and management of these two arrest rhythms, their treatment has been combined in the second part of the ACLS Pulseless Arrest Algorithm.

Patients who have either asystole or PEA will not benefit from defibrillation attempts. The focus of resuscitation is to perform high-quality CPR with minimal interruptions and to identify reversible causes or complicating factors. Providers should insert an advanced airway (eg, endotracheal tube, Combitube, LMA). Once the airway is in place, 2 rescuers should no longer deliver cycles of CPR (ie, compressions interrupted by pauses when breaths are delivered). Instead the compressing rescuer should give continuous chest compressions at a rate of 100 per minute without pauses for ventilation. The rescuer delivering ventilation provides 8 to 10 breaths per minute. The 2 rescuers should change compressor and ventilator roles approximately every 2 minutes (when the rhythm is checked) to prevent compressor fatigue and deterioration in quality and rate of chest compressions. When multiple rescuers are present, they should rotate the compressor role about every 2 minutes. Rescuers should minimize interruptions in chest compressions while inserting the airway and should not interrupt CPR while establishing IV or IO access.

If the rhythm check confirms asystole or PEA, resume CPR immediately. A vasopressor (epinephrine or vasopressin) may be administered at this time. Epinephrine can be administered approximately every 3 to 5 minutes during cardiac arrest; one dose of vasopressin may be substituted for either the first or second epinephrine dose (Box 10). For a patient in asystole or slow PEA, consider atropine (see below). Do not interrupt CPR to deliver any medication. Give the drug as soon as possible after the rhythm check.

After drug delivery and approximately 5 cycles (or about 2 minutes) of CPR, recheck the rhythm (Box 11). If a shockable rhythm is present, deliver a shock (go to Box 4). If no rhythm is present or if there is no change in the appearance of the electrocardiogram, immediately resume CPR (Box 10). If an organized rhythm is present (Box 12), try to palpate a pulse. If no pulse is present (or if there is any doubt about the presence of a pulse), continue CPR (Box 10). If a pulse is present the provider should identify the rhythm and treat appropriately (see Part 7.3: "Management of Symptomatic Bradycardia and Tachycardia"). If the patient appears to have an organized rhythm with a good pulse, begin postresuscitative care.


    When Should Resuscitative Efforts Stop?  
 

The resuscitation team must make a conscientious and competent effort to give patients a trial of CPR and ACLS, provided that the patient has not expressed a decision to forego resuscitative efforts. The final decision to stop efforts can never be as simple as an isolated time interval. Clinical judgment and respect for human dignity must enter into decision making. There is little data to guide this decision.
Emergency medical response systems should not require field personnel to transport every victim of cardiac arrest to a hospital or emergency department (ED). Transportation with continuing CPR is justified if interventions are available in the ED that cannot be performed in the field, such as cardiopulmonary bypass or extracorporeal circulation for victims of severe hypothermia (Class IIb).

Unless special situations are present (eg, hypothermia), for nontraumatic and blunt traumatic out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, evidence confirms that ACLS care in the ED offers no advantage over ACLS care in the field. Stated succinctly, if ACLS care in the field cannot resuscitate the victim, ED care will not resuscitate the victim. Civil rules, administrative concerns, medical insurance requirements, and even reimbursement enhancement have frequently led to requirements to transport all cardiac arrest victims to a hospital or ED. If these requirements are nonselective, they are inappropriate, futile, and ethically unacceptable. Cessation of efforts in the out-of-hospital setting, following system-specific criteria and under direct medical control, should be standard practice in all EMS systems.
 
@ LADY MEDIC
    Practically like i mention earlier if the patient doesnt seem to respond to treatment , CPR terminate and he/she pronounced dead ,BUT It carries a great medicolegal importance like this  high  profile case when the jury can question the paramedical staff/personal physician about their best efforts in patients benefit, and thats why  DR Murray called Prince to witness the whole procedure , he is a key witness in that case , I  dont know what others physician do but if i see patient is improving i ask to keep on working on him , it happened  the patient was flatline all efforts terminated and team was about to declare the patient dead but suddenly rhythm reverted may be thats what people say about UCLA rising the dead alive  

@ Elsa
       7th cervical rib is rare BUT IT CAN BE A SYMPTOMATIC and person might not know  , in some patients it presses the main subclavian artery and major veins leads to emboli ,in others it presses nerve causing muscle wasting of arm and hand , depending upon what  anatomical structure is affected the symptoms varies
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Hazzely

Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 30, 2010, 08:01:53 AM
Quote from: "mjj_fan"
Asystole and Pulseless Electrical Activity (Box 9)
PEA encompasses a heterogeneous group of pulseless rhythms that includes pseudo-electromechanical dissociation (pseudo-EMD), idioventricular rhythms, ventricular escape rhythms, postdefibrillation idioventricular rhythms, and bradyasystolic rhythms. Research with cardiac ultrasonography and indwelling pressure catheters has confirmed that pulseless patients with electrical activity have associated mechanical contractions, but these contractions are too weak to produce a blood pressure detectable by palpation or noninvasive blood pressure monitoring. PEA is often caused by reversible conditions and can be treated if those conditions are identified and corrected.

The survival rate from cardiac arrest with asystole is dismal. During a resuscitation attempt, brief periods of an organized complex may appear on the monitor screen, but spontaneous circulation rarely emerges. As with PEA, the hope for resuscitation is to identify and treat a reversible cause.

Because of the similarity in causes and management of these two arrest rhythms, their treatment has been combined in the second part of the ACLS Pulseless Arrest Algorithm.

Patients who have either asystole or PEA will not benefit from defibrillation attempts. The focus of resuscitation is to perform high-quality CPR with minimal interruptions and to identify reversible causes or complicating factors. Providers should insert an advanced airway (eg, endotracheal tube, Combitube, LMA). Once the airway is in place, 2 rescuers should no longer deliver cycles of CPR (ie, compressions interrupted by pauses when breaths are delivered). Instead the compressing rescuer should give continuous chest compressions at a rate of 100 per minute without pauses for ventilation. The rescuer delivering ventilation provides 8 to 10 breaths per minute. The 2 rescuers should change compressor and ventilator roles approximately every 2 minutes (when the rhythm is checked) to prevent compressor fatigue and deterioration in quality and rate of chest compressions. When multiple rescuers are present, they should rotate the compressor role about every 2 minutes. Rescuers should minimize interruptions in chest compressions while inserting the airway and should not interrupt CPR while establishing IV or IO access.

If the rhythm check confirms asystole or PEA, resume CPR immediately. A vasopressor (epinephrine or vasopressin) may be administered at this time. Epinephrine can be administered approximately every 3 to 5 minutes during cardiac arrest; one dose of vasopressin may be substituted for either the first or second epinephrine dose (Box 10). For a patient in asystole or slow PEA, consider atropine (see below). Do not interrupt CPR to deliver any medication. Give the drug as soon as possible after the rhythm check.

After drug delivery and approximately 5 cycles (or about 2 minutes) of CPR, recheck the rhythm (Box 11). If a shockable rhythm is present, deliver a shock (go to Box 4). If no rhythm is present or if there is no change in the appearance of the electrocardiogram, immediately resume CPR (Box 10). If an organized rhythm is present (Box 12), try to palpate a pulse. If no pulse is present (or if there is any doubt about the presence of a pulse), continue CPR (Box 10). If a pulse is present the provider should identify the rhythm and treat appropriately (see Part 7.3: "Management of Symptomatic Bradycardia and Tachycardia"). If the patient appears to have an organized rhythm with a good pulse, begin postresuscitative care.


    When Should Resuscitative Efforts Stop?  
 

The resuscitation team must make a conscientious and competent effort to give patients a trial of CPR and ACLS, provided that the patient has not expressed a decision to forego resuscitative efforts. The final decision to stop efforts can never be as simple as an isolated time interval. Clinical judgment and respect for human dignity must enter into decision making. There is little data to guide this decision.
Emergency medical response systems should not require field personnel to transport every victim of cardiac arrest to a hospital or emergency department (ED). Transportation with continuing CPR is justified if interventions are available in the ED that cannot be performed in the field, such as cardiopulmonary bypass or extracorporeal circulation for victims of severe hypothermia (Class IIb).

Unless special situations are present (eg, hypothermia), for nontraumatic and blunt traumatic out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, evidence confirms that ACLS care in the ED offers no advantage over ACLS care in the field. Stated succinctly, if ACLS care in the field cannot resuscitate the victim, ED care will not resuscitate the victim. Civil rules, administrative concerns, medical insurance requirements, and even reimbursement enhancement have frequently led to requirements to transport all cardiac arrest victims to a hospital or ED. If these requirements are nonselective, they are inappropriate, futile, and ethically unacceptable. Cessation of efforts in the out-of-hospital setting, following system-specific criteria and under direct medical control, should be standard practice in all EMS systems.

So what's your opinion about "Michael" or that person who died (if there's any) according to this?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 30, 2010, 08:09:43 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"

Yes, I heard Harvey say it was Hash instead of Pot on TMZ live. He said his source absolutely knew what he was talking about, haha. Didn't the autopsy report mention Marihuana was found and not Hash? I'm not sure, I can't check it here at work.

Well, if I'm not wrong, Marijuana has not been mentioned in the AR, not as evidence or whatever. Just in the Toxicology tests, and Marijuana was Negative in the urine samples.
Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 10:15:14 AM by mjj29081958
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
June 30, 2010, 08:29:42 AM
@ hazzely
1.  
        I already mention where the person suggesting something odd doesnt seems odd to me , except the part with the body samples under various alias could be a another  possibilty to explain , that is his samples were sent to lab with assumed names to have unbiased result s , i think same goes with his histology slides
2.
  as far as i remember there was somthing mention  about avulsion of olfactory lobes leading to anosmia a condition patient cant smell but it happens after significant head trauma and skull fractures i cant see in this report

3.i thought scar would be mention not because burn scalp but the fact he had discoid lupus leading to scarring aloplecia ( baldness)
 
      i know what most of you might be thinking right now after reading the post  its hard for me to write it even because i know many of you might get hurt  but i think  i clear up your doubts , please keep an open mind and i know you all do .

 please take care
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
July 02, 2010, 11:42:55 PM
For anyone who can clear this up to me (it may sound stupid):

Can patients keep on their activities (work or whatever) while a Peripheral Venous Acces remains into the veins (when it is not in use) for some time, or do you need to start a new acces every time you're gonna give IV therapy?

Thanks guys!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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mykidsmum

  • Guest
Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
July 03, 2010, 07:09:25 AM
Quote from: "mjj_fan"
@ hazzely
1.  
        I already mention where the person suggesting something odd doesnt seems odd to me , except the part with the body samples under various alias could be a another  possibilty to explain , that is his samples were sent to lab with assumed names to have unbiased result s , i think same goes with his histology slides
2.
  as far as i remember there was somthing mention  about avulsion of olfactory lobes leading to anosmia a condition patient cant smell but it happens after significant head trauma and skull fractures i cant see in this report

3.i thought scar would be mention not because burn scalp but the fact he had discoid lupus leading to scarring aloplecia ( baldness)
 
      i know what most of you might be thinking right now after reading the post  its hard for me to write it even because i know many of you might get hurt  but i think  i clear up your doubts , please keep an open mind and i know you all do .

 please take care
number 2!  Avulsion of Olfactory Bulb...I wrote about this a long time ago...This could have happend to MJ during nose procedures, especially if they cracked his nasal bone, but it would have caused complete lack of smell!  Even taste!  This could be why he didn't eat.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
July 03, 2010, 04:15:04 PM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "mjj_fan"
@ hazzely
1.  
        I already mention where the person suggesting something odd doesnt seems odd to me , except the part with the body samples under various alias could be a another  possibilty to explain , that is his samples were sent to lab with assumed names to have unbiased result s , i think same goes with his histology slides
2.
  as far as i remember there was somthing mention  about avulsion of olfactory lobes leading to anosmia a condition patient cant smell but it happens after significant head trauma and skull fractures i cant see in this report

3.i thought scar would be mention not because burn scalp but the fact he had discoid lupus leading to scarring aloplecia ( baldness)
 
      i know what most of you might be thinking right now after reading the post  its hard for me to write it even because i know many of you might get hurt  but i think  i clear up your doubts , please keep an open mind and i know you all do .

 please take care
number 2!  Avulsion of Olfactory Bulb...I wrote about this a long time ago...This could have happend to MJ during nose procedures, especially if they cracked his nasal bone, but it would have caused complete lack of smell!  Even taste!  This could be why he didn't eat.

The Olfactory Bulbs are placed below the brain inside the skull... I'm not sure that Plastic Surgeons go that deep into the nose!  :shock:  In fact, they would have to go very deep and very high into the nose and break a bone (not the nasal bone, but the one that separates the nose's "roof" from the skull) to get into the skull and cut the Olfactory Bulbs  :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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