Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

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Offline missdanipyt

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Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 29, 2010, 02:55:45 PM
August 29th

From the beginning it was always a quandary for me, Michael’s birthday. From the first day we met, unfamiliar to me, I was faced with his chosen religion, Jehovah’s Witness.

When Michael arrived for his photo shoot for THRILLER, two men accompanied him impeccably dressed in suits, who sat over to the side on some cushy couches and watched his every move.

Since this was the first time I worked with him, it didn’t feel appropriate for me to ask who they could possibly be. I thought if he wanted us to know, he would have told us. I just felt their presence throughout the entire day. They left with him as mysteriously as they had entered with him. At the time I really did not give it another thought, because I had no idea of the adventure that was ahead of me.

The next shoot, there again…a mysterious gentleman, sitting in the background.

As our working relationship and friendship began to grow, I asked. He explained to me he was a Jehovah’s Witness. He was very active with the church, and these gentlemen were monitors. They watched over him. He also explained he went to bible study, and spent time going door-to-door teaching the word each week. I had to take pause for a minute and think about that one….

THRILLER had been released by the time he was explaining this to me. “You mean to tell me, that you ring someone’s doorbell, they come to answer it, and there stands Michael Jackson??????”

He gave me one of his hi pitched belly laughs…and said, “yeah”. He further explained that he does it in disguise.

“Oh no you don’t.”

Still giggling, he paused and got amusingly serious. “Yeah, sure. After they let me in, they usually begin to look at me funny, so I end up admitting who I am.”

“Wow, I wish I could be a fly on the wall and watch that. I still can’t believe you do that.” I said.

“It is a big part of being a Jehovah’s Witness. We also do not celebrate holidays or birthdays. We believe that we should honor and celebrate these things daily, and not have just one day.”

So I asked “No birthdays. No Christmas?”

“No” he replied.

“Isn’t that difficult, when the world around you is decorating and singing carols?”.

“Yes, Turkle…it is always kind of sad, especially when I was a child, because it looked like so much fun. But it is okay; we have things like FAMILY DAY, where we all get together. There are hundreds of Jackson’s and we all try and be there.”

I could genuinely see the sadness in his eyes and the sense his feeling of loss, not celebrating Christmas with the other kids…so I changed the subject.

One August 29th, we ended up working. Everyone was wishing him Happy Birthday and giving him little presents. He smiled and graciously accepted them. Once we were in the privacy of the trailer, he put the gifts down on the seat, and looked down at them.

“I wish people wouldn’t do that. Please promise me, Turkle, don’t EVER say Happy Birthday to me.”

I was torn. I once again saw how sad and conflicted he was on the inside about this, but he remained loyal to his beliefs. It was so difficult for me too. I wanted to give him a present and a big birthday hug every time August 29th rolled around, and join in with the others who were celebrating his birthday around him. I also wanted to comply with his request not to even SAY happy birthday.

We were shooting SMOOTH CRIMINAL. I was accustomed to the monitors by now. The filming was going on longer than planned, as usual. We were preparing for a very big scene. Michael was surrounded by the alien battalion in a gully, built on stage 14.

The special weapons and ammunition team had briefed Michael on how to hold the machine gun and fire it. It was the last scene of the evening. Michael was having fun with it, like a little boy playing army. He took a strong stance, and fired as the cameras rolled.

That was a wrap for that evening, and we were given our call time for the next morning.

Michael was a little late arriving the next day. I was waiting in his trailer. He walked in so distraught. I didn’t understand, we were having so much fun the night before. He was silent as he sat in the makeup chair. I had to ask him please tell me. Please tell me what is wrong.

His eyes welled up with tears. “Mother called last night. The church called her, and told her that I held and fired a gun yesterday. They ordered that I have to make decision. I must leave the church, or leave the entertainment industry.” He was weeping as he uttered those words.

I was quite mortified. “What did your mother advise you to do?”

“She felt horrible. She told me it was up to me. She said she would stand by me with whatever I decided.”

“I see, you are here today”.

“Yes”

“Mother is supporting my choice”.

It took a while for Michael to adjust to his choice. He continued to feel uncomfortable with his birthday, but attended fan events in his honor, and truly enjoyed them.

When I was around him during Christmas, he would hide in his own closet to secretly wrap presents. He still held a tinge of guilt. I knew it was difficult for him, but I know he loved all the decorations that NEVER came down. He could freely give his children the birthdays that he never had. I knew deep down inside the Jehovah Witness teachings continued to hold a sacred place inside of him. That is why I was forever torn by not saying “Happy Birthday”. He never released me from my promise to not say it to him.


SOURCE: http://http://karenfayeblog.com/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Offline loveratheart4mj

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 29, 2010, 03:03:11 PM
Wow that story just leaves you with a torn heart. To feel such loyalty to your religion and want to share in what the world does every day. It had to make MJ feel totally aweful to leave his church behind. But we know for a fact that he didnt leave God behind. He is filled with God. God flows from him often. I love you Michael. Please come home soon.
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Offline Its her

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 05:20:38 AM
God has NEVER assigned other people to police our thoughts and the intents of our hearts. Religion tries to do this. Religion can guide you and enrich your life with discipline, but ANY thing oppressive is NOT of GOD. The fact that MJ tolerated, at first, a couple of spooks policing the expression of HIS Gift(s), is only a testimony to the purity of his youthful character to be fully submissive to God's will.

I love this about him.

But children follow leaders. When one becomes their own man, they become directed inside, themselves by the Spirit and Word of God.
Naturally, former thought police are discarded as redundant! :D  :D

And aren't we ALL glad Michael Jackson grew up and TOOK the reins (reigns ;) )himself!! :D  8-) LOOK what some devil tried to rob the world of :roll:  :x  :!:

It is unfortunate that anyone should be so oppressed by good intentions; that is, that birthdays were outlawed because someone thought that celebrating annually, a person's arrival here on earth, into a family of love, would  :roll: make a child prideful, when actually the opposite it true...

but someone else also said that the "road to hell" is PAVED with good intentions. Not the place hell; just a sad creepy void in a child's life, which seperates them from their peers for NO good reason they can feel inside. :|

Always, ALWAYs, when a person feels like policing someone else, it is THEIR conscience knocking on the door of THEIR wayward heart. "Look in the mirror" is the best idea anyone ever came up with, in interpersonal relationships and peace on earth.

No matter what was going on in the world, or my personal life, one day a year, I KNEW I was going to get CAKE. :o  I was going to get sung :roll:  a corny song to, and my people (the ones I belong to) would hide a present for me to find in our house!

Even when I moved out, I could COUNT on finding the :P  :P  birthday song in various versions, on my answering machine that day, and an invitation for PIZZA. It sends a message straight to the heart. :)

I hope MJ is WAY over all that guilt about birthday celebrations. It's NOT a bad thing to receive others' joy  8-) at having you in their lives just because you were BORN here a certain day!

I somehow don't believe K. Fayes words, and that she hasn't given him a big fat birthday :o  kiss  :lol:  :lol: and said those words to him at least ONCE after ALL this time. :roll:  :mrgreen:

I mean, it's not like she's a stranger. I can't do it---he doesn't know me from a rock in the driveway. She could do it FOR me (for all of us) ;)  ;)  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 07:57:28 AM
*cries  :cry: * - again... He's such a beautiful soul. I know some think that talking about Michael is some kind of betrayal of trust but I truly truly appreciate people like KF sharing these stories of Michael. Some of them do make me cry but they still remind me of why I love someone I've never even met so much.

Love you Michael.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 08:34:25 AM
i will take the story witha grain of salt. consider the source  ect. ect.
can't help but wonder if the elders were so stricked what they had to say about that half donzen or so Christmas albums the boys put out. an don't forget the pics of the birhday parties for the babies.

@it's her: once again you have given me my giggle for the day . i love you
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 08:43:29 AM
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 08:53:52 AM

Scanned pages from La Toya's book "Growing Up in the Jackson Family" (sorry for the marked paragraphs, that was done by the previous reader):














« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 09:27:42 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

maybe this will sound stupid but it won't be the first time. ;) since you a little familiar with jw. there has been some stir in the news over the last year about the treatment recieved by people who leave the scientology sect (?) is there any indication that you know of that some type of retaliation could come from jw for leaving or that maybe something could have come at him from scientology after he was involved with lisa? just something i have wondered about . if you or anyone else has any idea. :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

maybe this will sound stupid but it won't be the first time. ;) since you a little familiar with jw. there has been some stir in the news over the last year about the treatment recieved by people who leave the scientology sect (?) is there any indication that you know of that some type of retaliation could come from jw for leaving or that maybe something could have come at him from scientology after he was involved with lisa? just something i have wondered about . if you or anyone else has any idea. :?

I am not familiar with the scientology sect, so I can't answer that. I only know that one of my nephews was abandoned by his own mother, because he didn't want to be a JW. He has had many problems in life and last time I heard he had some serious issues because of this. They waited for this to happen, he was so vulnarable and broken down that now he is a devoted JW. They broke him to convert and enslave him. I know he would have never wanted this, but he wasn't strong enough and too many people let him down. I don't have contact with them, not for years. I have never felt love at that house, and they only supported the kids that lived up to their dreams and were devoted JW's. They don't like me, I am too free and I have my own opinion and I am nothing, a nobody in their eyes. So I don't have good experiences with JW's. I am not saying they are all like that, I am saying I witnessed some devoted ones and I didn't like what I saw. Same goes for some of the Islamic beliefs that suppress women's right or christian beliefs that say I go to hell because I'm not a christian and don't idolize some guy in a dress on a balcony. Religion is slavery, and faith or believing in God, or good and evil for that matter, has nothing to do with a religion. If God loves all people equally, he doesn't give a f**k if you go to church every Sunday. I think he would rather want you to do something useful for others in that time. Men built churches, not God. If we would all realize that actually what every person on this planet desires is to live in peace and health and respecting each other, it doesn't matter what you believe and that there is no need to get people to join your gang. God didn't invent religion, religion was created out of greed and the hunger for power (religion causes war, war creates $$$) and I am sure it was never God's intention for people to fight over it.

Hate me for this if you want but if you do, ask yourself why you would hate me for this.

"In time we hate that which we often fear."
~William Shakespeare~
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jacilovesmichael

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 10:19:16 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

maybe this will sound stupid but it won't be the first time. ;) since you a little familiar with jw. there has been some stir in the news over the last year about the treatment recieved by people who leave the scientology sect (?) is there any indication that you know of that some type of retaliation could come from jw for leaving or that maybe something could have come at him from scientology after he was involved with lisa? just something i have wondered about . if you or anyone else has any idea. :?

I am not familiar with the scientology sect, so I can't answer that. I only know that one of my nephews was abandoned by his own mother, because he didn't want to be a JW. He has had many problems in life and last time I heard he had some serious issues because of this. They waited for this to happen, he was so vulnarable and broken down that now he is a devoted JW. They broke him to convert and enslave him. I know he would have never wanted this, but he wasn't strong enough and too many people let him down. I don't have contact with them, not for years. I have never felt love at that house, and they only supported the kids that lived up to their dreams and were devoted JW's. They don't like me, I am too free and I have my own opinion and I am nothing, a nobody in their eyes. So I don't have good experiences with JW's. I am not saying they are all like that, I am saying I witnessed some devoted ones and I didn't like what I saw. Same goes for some of the Islamic beliefs that suppress women's right or christian beliefs that say I go to hell because I'm not a christian and don't idolize some guy in a dress on a balcony. Religion is slavery, and faith or believing in God, or good and evil for that matter, has nothing to do with a religion. If God loves all people equally, he doesn't give a f**k if you go to church every Sunday. I think he would rather want you to do something useful for others in that time. Men built churches, not God. If we would all realize that actually what every person on this planet desires is to live in peace and health and respecting each other, it doesn't matter what you believe and that there is no need to get people to join your gang. God didn't invent religion, religion was created out of greed and the hunger for power (religion causes war, war creates $$$) and I am sure it was never God's intention for people to fight over it.

Hate me for this if you want but if you do, ask yourself why you would hate me for this.

"In time we hate that which we often fear."
~William Shakespeare~

Oh my goodness Souza...once again you took the words right out of my mouth. Sometimes I think you are my soul mate  :lol:  But seriously, great post. I completely agree about the slavery/God thing...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 06:03:51 PM
I really hate that the elders or what ever they are called in Jehovah's Witness could not bring themselves to accept Michael for who he was and made him choose between a religion he obviously loved and his life's work that was his joy.  That is very ungodly in my opinion.  I think god said somewhere make a joyful noise unto the Lord.  That's what Michael did and it brought joy to all who heard him.  Who are they to judge?  What makes them so righteous that they can give someone that kind of ultimatum?  I don't like that at all.  I don't think Michael ever truly broke mentally from some of the beliefs they instilled in him and that had to have made his life miserable and conflicting.  My God, what man can hold that kind of power over another human being and think its in his right? I have always hated the brain washing they tried to do to Michael.  He was a good person.  that should have been the main quality they looked at.  He was good and he did good.  He never would have brought any shame to them.  They are no better than the serpent in the tree who seduced Adam to eat that apple, after which he feel ashamed of his nakedness.  Had he never eaten of the fruit he would have been just fine.  Had they not made such a big deal of his performance in Thriller, he would've enjoyed far better all the accolades he received from it, instead of feeling the need to explain that it wasn't an affront against his religion.  They made Michael feel ashamed of doing what he did to make a living and that was just wrong. I seriously hate that.  And by the way, my uncle and my cousins are all practicing witnesses.  I feel the same way about them.  Don't bring your judgement of what I do in my life, in my house.  Leave it at the door before you enter in.  If you can't don't darken my path. I have a stripper pole in my living room.  :lol:  :lol: Just kidding, but if I did, it ain't illegal and it's good exercise. :lol:  so I hear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 08:47:00 PM
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.
so based on what you know do you think that jw would be capable of attacking him with the molestation accusations in an effort to , as you stated, break him? does it seem plausable that they could be at the root? would they have that kind of power to get it done? anybody have any idea?
maybe this will sound stupid but it won't be the first time. ;) since you a little familiar with jw. there has been some stir in the news over the last year about the treatment recieved by people who leave the scientology sect (?) is there any indication that you know of that some type of retaliation could come from jw for leaving or that maybe something could have come at him from scientology after he was involved with lisa? just something i have wondered about . if you or anyone else has any idea. :?
[/size]
I am not familiar with the scientology sect, so I can't answer that. I only know that one of my nephews was abandoned by his own mother, because he didn't want to be a JW. He has had many problems in life and last time I heard he had some serious issues because of this. They waited for this to happen, he was so vulnarable and broken down that now he is a devoted JW. They broke him to convert and enslave him. I know he would have never wanted this, but he wasn't strong enough and too many people let him down. I don't have contact with them, not for years. I have never felt love at that house, and they only supported the kids that lived up to their dreams and were devoted JW's. They don't like me, I am too free and I have my own opinion and I am nothing, a nobody in their eyes. So I don't have good experiences with JW's. I am not saying they are all like that, I am saying I witnessed some devoted ones and I didn't like what I saw. Same goes for some of the Islamic beliefs that suppress women's right or christian beliefs that say I go to hell because I'm not a christian and don't idolize some guy in a dress on a balcony. Religion is slavery, and faith or believing in God, or good and evil for that matter, has nothing to do with a religion. If God loves all people equally, he doesn't give a f**k if you go to church every Sunday. I think he would rather want you to do something useful for others in that time. Men built churches, not God. If we would all realize that actually what every person on this planet desires is to live in peace and health and respecting each other, it doesn't matter what you believe and that there is no need to get people to join your gang. God didn't invent religion, religion was created out of greed and the hunger for power (religion causes war, war creates $$$) and I am sure it was never God's intention for people to fight over it.

Hate me for this if you want but if you do, ask yourself why you would hate me for this.

"In time we hate that which we often fear."
~William Shakespeare~

Oh my goodness Souza...once again you took the words right out of my mouth. Sometimes I think you are my soul mate  :lol:  But seriously, great post. I completely agree about the slavery/God thing...

well i have managed to totally mess up this post and can't fix it.i will start over :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 08:55:32 PM
so does anyone think that jw could be behind any of the accuzations against michael in order to force him to come back into their church? could they have enough power to cause him so much trouble.?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 09:18:31 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
so does anyone think that jw could be behind any of the accuzations against michael in order to force him to come back into their church? could they have enough power to cause him so much trouble.?


No, that were not the JW's... Read this: viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13697
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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

Yes, you're right. Being devoted to a religion is "slavery" because you must  obey, respect the one you worship. You have to be grateful for what, who you were blessed with in this life and then get reworded for how you've done or get punished for what you've done.. You don't believe in this, so do you believe in the after life? If you do believe in it then haven't you ever been curious of whats the purpose in this life? What's your purpose? Why has God made 2 lives? Why is there good and bad? You said God made everyone equally, meaning we are all human beings, not the equality in what ever religion u believe in.

And again you are right. We don't need "men in dresses" ( I don't know what this has to do with your point, but I know who you are referring to) or 10 commandments to tell you whats good and evil. They don't tell you what to do they are more like a message, a guiding to help you in this life, and to teach you. They did not make it up. It's there for you, it has been sent by God you just have  believe it, of course if you have unquestionable proof that its made up by men then of course you will never have complete faith in it. If you don't have proof then thats when you will start looking more and more into it. And then when you really believe in something you have complete faith in it.

I'm just expressing my opinion to your post.. I hope you won't feel offended :)
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: August 31, 2010, 10:58:58 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

maybe this will sound stupid but it won't be the first time. ;) since you a little familiar with jw. there has been some stir in the news over the last year about the treatment recieved by people who leave the scientology sect (?) is there any indication that you know of that some type of retaliation could come from jw for leaving or that maybe something could have come at him from scientology after he was involved with lisa? just something i have wondered about . if you or anyone else has any idea. :?

I am not familiar with the scientology sect, so I can't answer that. I only know that one of my nephews was abandoned by his own mother, because he didn't want to be a JW. He has had many problems in life and last time I heard he had some serious issues because of this. They waited for this to happen, he was so vulnarable and broken down that now he is a devoted JW. They broke him to convert and enslave him. I know he would have never wanted this, but he wasn't strong enough and too many people let him down. I don't have contact with them, not for years. I have never felt love at that house, and they only supported the kids that lived up to their dreams and were devoted JW's. They don't like me, I am too free and I have my own opinion and I am nothing, a nobody in their eyes. So I don't have good experiences with JW's. I am not saying they are all like that, I am saying I witnessed some devoted ones and I didn't like what I saw. Same goes for some of the Islamic beliefs that suppress women's right or christian beliefs that say I go to hell because I'm not a christian and don't idolize some guy in a dress on a balcony. Religion is slavery, and faith or believing in God, or good and evil for that matter, has nothing to do with a religion. If God loves all people equally, he doesn't give a f**k if you go to church every Sunday. I think he would rather want you to do something useful for others in that time. Men built churches, not God. If we would all realize that actually what every person on this planet desires is to live in peace and health and respecting each other, it doesn't matter what you believe and that there is no need to get people to join your gang. God didn't invent religion, religion was created out of greed and the hunger for power (religion causes war, war creates $$$) and I am sure it was never God's intention for people to fight over it.

Hate me for this if you want but if you do, ask yourself why you would hate me for this.

"In time we hate that which we often fear."
~William Shakespeare~


Sousa :i do not hate you for what you feel about things.
honestly at the moment i am too busy hating a computor that won't let me highlight what i want to highlight! :evil:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 01, 2010, 01:36:53 AM
If  Ms. Katherine is a devoted JW like we have heard, we do have to give her credit for standing behind Michael and being there for her son (and La Toya, for that matter). The must have put some pressures on her too over the years, where Michael was concerned.  :?
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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 01, 2010, 07:52:48 AM
Quote from: "whisper"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

Yes, you're right. Being devoted to a religion is "slavery" because you must  obey, respect the one you worship. You have to be grateful for what, who you were blessed with in this life and then get reworded for how you've done or get punished for what you've done.. You don't believe in this, so do you believe in the after life? If you do believe in it then haven't you ever been curious of whats the purpose in this life? What's your purpose? Why has God made 2 lives? Why is there good and bad? You said God made everyone equally, meaning we are all human beings, not the equality in what ever religion u believe in.

In religion you must obey "The men in dresses", not God. Men made those rules and who the hell tells you what you should or shouldn't do and even blackmail you?
Believing in the afterlife? Has that something to do with obeying your religion? I don't think so.


Quote from: "whisper"
And again you are right. We don't need "men in dresses" ( I don't know what this has to do with your point, but I know who you are referring to) or 10 commandments to tell you whats good and evil. They don't tell you what to do they are more like a message, a guiding to help you in this life, and to teach you. They did not make it up. It's there for you, it has been sent by God you just have  believe it, of course if you have unquestionable proof that its made up by men then of course you will never have complete faith in it. If you don't have proof then thats when you will start looking more and more into it. And then when you really believe in something you have complete faith in it.

I'm just expressing my opinion to your post.. I hope you won't feel offended :)

I don't feel offended, I am just very happy I have a free mind. I could say many more things but I think it's better to go back on topic...
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Offline Glinda

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 01, 2010, 07:59:35 AM
[youtube:1tt5nhvv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfbKrphheQk[/youtube:1tt5nhvv]

God does not live in a church with people telling you what to do.
( That's all I have to say)
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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 02, 2010, 12:19:58 AM
Quote from: "Glinda"
[youtube:11v3pq84]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfbKrphheQk[/youtube:11v3pq84]

God does not live in a church with people telling you what to do.
( That's all I have to say)
Ha, good to see my favorite rock band!

Let me just say: I don't know if I'll ever come full circle on Joe or Katherine Jackson- and with her, it is because of this. I honestly think that if she had not been so deeply involved (you're right, Souza, I agree with your points about this type of religion being like slavery, and I'm sorry, but something has always seemed kind of distant about Katherine to me- not quite cold, but I think it comes from how deeply involved with all of this she was/is) MJ would have a better childhood even with Joe's.. actions and whatever other horrible crap he had to endure.. Its Her, my bud, your post was great, too, and I just can't stand the irony that one of the world's most open and free spirits had to be stifled and made to feel guilty like that- I'd better stop before my temper gets too overheated.
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Offline Its her

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 02, 2010, 06:26:01 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
i will take the story witha grain of salt. consider the source  ect. ect.
can't help but wonder if the elders were so stricked what they had to say about that half donzen or so Christmas albums the boys put out. an don't forget the pics of the birhday parties for the babies.

@it's her: once again you have given me my giggle for the day . i love you

Christmas albums are just good business, and if there is one thing a large denomination appreciates, is "large denomination" tithes to their coffers...

THAT must have been the hardest thing of all, for the boys--to SING about something they'd been been told is wrong to be involved in.

Singing makes you so joyful. And then, you aren't even allowed  :evil:  :evil: so much as a candy cane....Talk about MIND CONTROL...Oh, and doesn't that song which goes, "Someday At Christmas..." just RIP your heart out and punch it flat a few times????????!! DANG.

The church "authorities" are like every other politician; they do what they want and have pat rationalizations for everything.  :?  :x


Say, if you want to giggle, check out some of the "outtakes"  from the Bashir video.(Depending on WHO you believe was in charge of actual production of that project... :roll:  what I mean specifically, is the scenes recognized as being shot by "MJ's people", which were not in the network aired version.)  What I found funny about this is that although I have had many employers and "bosses", and even had a crush on one, I have NEVER EVER :o lain my upper body across one of their thighs as they were seated on the floor.  :shock: :?  :lol:

It NEVER would have OCCURRED to me to be so familiar---even with a boss I had for 17 years  :o   :?  :P  :P  :P  :P  :!:

Granted, she was used to touching him all over, as his makeup gal, but IMHO, THIS display of familiarity was a bit much, unless they had something else going on... MJ didn't act like anything was out of the ordinary, either!!!!

That's

what's so  :o funny: K.Faye can lie down in his LAP, on video, but she can't hug his neck, and say "Happy Birthday" to him, privately :roll:  :?:  :?:

SHAMONE! :roll:

(the big fat kiss was my :oops:  :P  :P  idea, but, to her, I would say:

"DON'T even try it, K.F., to say you never thought of it, OR NEVER DID IT :lol:  :lol: ! :P
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 02, 2010, 07:15:58 AM
ok so i guess i didn't imagine the kf thing. do you think that someone had her do it on purpose as some sort of damage control once they realized what the thing with gavin was gonna look like?if this chick was this way all of the time i can see that it would get on some peoples (wives) nerves. as for him not reacting , i just always think of the video when the fan climbs onto the cherry picker and the falling bridge incident, the show must go on.as for katherine i have felt what you mean. i only hope that is just the way she presents otherwise it would not make her behavior in all of this unusual. and if it is her normal way of being, well my heart doesn't want to go there. as for the Christmas albums you pretty much made my point ;) as for katherines involvement with the church distancing her coul be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline Its her

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 03, 2010, 02:47:52 AM
Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday
Preview: Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday
suspicious mind wrote:
ok so i guess i didn't imagine the kf thing. do you think that someone had her do it on purpose as some sort of damage control once they realized what the thing with gavin was gonna look like?if this chick was this way all of the time i can see that it would get on some peoples (wives) nerves. as for him not reacting , i just always think of the video when the fan climbs onto the cherry picker and the falling bridge incident,

the show must go on.
     
as for katherine i have felt what you mean. i only hope that is just the way she presents otherwise it would not make her behavior in all of this unusual. and if it is her normal way of being, well my heart doesn't want to go there. as for the Christmas albums you pretty much made my point  as for katherines involvement with the church distancing her coul be.

Say, I did not think of that...K. Faye doing it as a strategy!! But, now that I do think about it, she would be probably the ONLY woman he would allow to hang all over him like that for fake. I just always thought there was something going on, there---she was in his very personal space. It was more of an "old lovers, comfort with each other's closeness", than an employee lounging all over her boss...Poor Mikey. The things he's had to do for the cameras---just to keep the rumors at bay. But, for a while, there, they WERE going out for dinners together, and she was always hanging on him---like someone who had already BEEN very VERY "familiar" with the man...

I also think you have hit it on the head AGAIN, with "the show must go on" mind set!!!. I LOVED the WAY MJ WAS with that boy. omg. Such calm, complete, professionalism, but iron fisted control!!! That was a moment to marvel, for sure. What a man! A hero! he protected that little goofball from certain injury. And it reminds me of the Oprah alarm incident---where he didn't bat an eyelash, even though it sounded like a fire alarm! He is SOOOOOOOOOOO unshakeable. Where does THAT come from????? I would LOVE some of that.
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Offline angel

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Re: Karen Faye on MJ's Birthday

  • on: September 06, 2010, 10:51:02 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Hmmmm, some in my family are JW's and I have never heard of those monitors. Looks to me as if they were handlers instead, but that aside.

Mike didn't want to be anyone's slave anymore, he broke free from that in the 80's. Being a dedicated JW is also slavery, if you are not even able to make your own decisions in life. Faith has nothing to do with living up to rules that some men have come up with, it comes from within yourself. All people should be able to do whatever they want in life, as long as they respect other's lives as well. We don't need men in dresses or 10 commandments to tell us what is good and what is evil, every human being is very capable of seeing that difference themselves. We should all be able to believe whatever we want, without boundaries. I believe Mike believes that as well, and that that is the reason he left the JW's and that is also why I don't believe he converted himself to the Islam. In every religion there is a part that tells you what to do or what not to do. If you don't live up exactly to those rules, they have punishments for you... I call that slavery.

maybe this will sound stupid but it won't be the first time. ;) since you a little familiar with jw. there has been some stir in the news over the last year about the treatment recieved by people who leave the scientology sect (?) is there any indication that you know of that some type of retaliation could come from jw for leaving or that maybe something could have come at him from scientology after he was involved with lisa? just something i have wondered about . if you or anyone else has any idea. :?

I am not familiar with the scientology sect, so I can't answer that. I only know that one of my nephews was abandoned by his own mother, because he didn't want to be a JW. He has had many problems in life and last time I heard he had some serious issues because of this. They waited for this to happen, he was so vulnarable and broken down that now he is a devoted JW. They broke him to convert and enslave him. I know he would have never wanted this, but he wasn't strong enough and too many people let him down. I don't have contact with them, not for years. I have never felt love at that house, and they only supported the kids that lived up to their dreams and were devoted JW's. They don't like me, I am too free and I have my own opinion and I am nothing, a nobody in their eyes. So I don't have good experiences with JW's. I am not saying they are all like that, I am saying I witnessed some devoted ones and I didn't like what I saw. Same goes for some of the Islamic beliefs that suppress women's right or christian beliefs that say I go to hell because I'm not a christian and don't idolize some guy in a dress on a balcony. Religion is slavery, and faith or believing in God, or good and evil for that matter, has nothing to do with a religion. If God loves all people equally, he doesn't give a f**k if you go to church every Sunday. I think he would rather want you to do something useful for others in that time. Men built churches, not God. If we would all realize that actually what every person on this planet desires is to live in peace and health and respecting each other, it doesn't matter what you believe and that there is no need to get people to join your gang. God didn't invent religion, religion was created out of greed and the hunger for power (religion causes war, war creates $$$) and I am sure it was never God's intention for people to fight over it.

Hate me for this if you want but if you do, ask yourself why you would hate me for this.

"In time we hate that which we often fear."
~William Shakespeare~


On my dad's side of the family, his mom and 6 out of 8 brothers and sisters were JW's.  My grandfather, my dad, and one of the sisters were the only exceptions.  Dad spent his entire life trying to convert them and debunking their beliefs.  Needless to say, family reunions were a pain.  Dad would always start a debate and ruin it for me. (Children are easily embarrassed at that age.) ;)   But that was just his way.  I also remember as a child looking at a copy of the JW bible and noticing all the omissions such as references to "heaven".  That always puzzled me, that kind of selective belief.  Anyway, this is just a comment....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »