Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

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Offline ~Souza~

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Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: "TS"
4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax

In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects).  Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts}.  That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?

I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far.  But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.

For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories.  By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture.  But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time.  This would not qualify as a coherent theory.

I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital.  And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow.  What would be the point?

Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work.  There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.

This leaves us with three possibilities.  There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”.  There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy).  Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died.  In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.

Considering the corpse possibility: do you remember anything about the room being heated extra warm—in the summer of all times {http://http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/jackson-time-of-death-a-mystery/}?  Maybe the room was heated to make the corpse feel warm, like it had just died.  And do you remember the paramedics saying that MJ had been dead for more than an hour before they arrived—and also that they did not realize it was MJ, and thought it looked like an old man?  {http://http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/; http://http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/; http://http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/}

So if you think you have the puzzle complete, post the theory in this subforum. The hoax from start to 'end'.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline curls

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:02:29 AM
I had to laugh when I read this Souza - pretty much EVERY night I go to bed with the idea that I'm going to think my way through a coherant theory - and I never get very far before I fall asleep!!

Reading TS's update again, he seems to be highlighting Jermaine's 'airport' clue, so maybe we should start there. I take that to mean MJ had 'gone' before any of the events at the hospital and maybe even at the house. The ambulance photo was done on 'the other day' with a dummy. The paramedics on 25th were 'in on it'.

Not sure about TS drawing attention to the use of a dummy/dummies or corpse/corpses. The first option sits more comfortably with me, I have to say - using a corpse seems too macabre.  But who knows?

I'll definitely be thinking some more about this - and preferably before bedtime!!
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Offline chappie

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:12:15 AM
I still believe that someone else died.
And they kept his body warm (hot hot hot in the room) for the right moment to call 911.
Timing?
Why only in the evening and at night a doctor in the house?
If really was Michaels doctor he had to be there 24 hours a day!
Why did he get the iv in the doctors room?
So there was someone in that house who was very sick.
And well taken care of by doctor murray.
He just had to die at the right moment...
But who was it?
Chappie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Glinda

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:23:08 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ImQKCA0jrY[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ImQKCA0jrY
  8-)

( nags softly about spoilertags again..)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 09:48:47 AM by ForstAMoon »

Offline liegi

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:27:11 AM
Right, and according to Kai Chase--no one was allowed upstairs!!
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Offline Glinda

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:33:19 AM
Quote from: "liegi"
Right, and according to Kai Chase--no one was allowed upstairs!!

I wonder who else got there firing the whole staff.
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Offline jacilovesmichael

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 11:02:07 AM
I think there was a corpse used. I have no idea who it would be or if it would even have to be someone we know of. It would have to be a body that someone had access to. I don't know how that stuff works. Maybe Murray was able to get a body? Maybe there are some kind of contracts involved. You know you can sign documents allowing your corpse to be used in education and science settings, why not sign a contract that lends your corpse to the Michael Jackson death hoax? lol...I would totally do that. So then Mike leaves on a plane...to somewhere far away..Ireland maybe? I think the autopsy was done on the real corpse. And a dummy was used to put in the casket. There are very very VERY real looking dummies these days.. I watched a documentary on it, they can make everything look and feel real. Karen and the other guys that said they put him in his casket might be telling the truth, maybe they really though it was Michael. The dummy would be the weight of a real body, and since it's a dead body, and it's disrespectful to poke and prod around, nothing else would be noticed or expected. I think Karen would even be able to do the make up without knowing it was a dummy, based on the dummies I have seen. Or, maybe they didn't really see or touch him for long, they could have just seen him being placed in the casket, and by seeing it they feel confident that it was him. When you're in shock or grieving, your eyes play tricks on you.. you see what you expect to see. So even if anything was slightly off, their emotional state wouldn't even allow them to see it. Think of the dummy Mike had of himself in the video "Leave Me Alone"...I remember a picture of the dummy with Mike looking at it, and it's remarkable how real it looks....I'll try to find it and post it.
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Offline Heartbreaker

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: "chappie"
I still believe that someone else died.
And they kept his body warm (hot hot hot in the room) for the right moment to call 911.
Timing?
Why only in the evening and at night a doctor in the house?
If really was Michaels doctor he had to be there 24 hours a day!
Why did he get the iv in the doctors room?
So there was someone in that house who was very sick.
And well taken care of by doctor murray.
He just had to die at the right moment...
But who was it?
Chappie

Exactly my thoughts. Or the one who died earlier as planned.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


[size=150]"You can pray to the angels and they will listen, but the best way to call them,      I am told, is to laugh" Michael Jackson[/size][/b]

Offline tekamjforever

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 11:50:35 AM
Yes, I consider more plausible that he walked away (airport), before the whole circus "catch fire" ... And it seems that TS is suggesting, strongly, the idea of the real body (the room at high temperature, the paramedics who quote an old man). 8-) I think I'll take these two possibilities, to resume the debate. ;)
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Offline chappie

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 11:53:22 AM
Elvis had a wax figure in the casket...that was a long time ago and fooled everyone.... ;)
Chappie
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Offline Glinda

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: "chappie"
Elvis had a wax figure in the casket...that was a long time ago and fooled everyone.... ;)
Chappie

Talking about dolls
http://pinktentacle.com/2008/09/man-cha ... irlfriend/
 :mrgreen:
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Offline tekamjforever

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 12:22:32 PM
Quote from: "chappie"
Elvis had a wax figure in the casket...that was a long time ago and fooled everyone.... ;)
Chappie

But in this case (IMO) is the autopsy, burial ... This would involve many people: paramedics, medical examiners, police ... :roll:  It seems unlikely, unless there is prior consent of the authorities (FBI, ..) - (? This implies a different debate, separately, whatever the form that the hoax was done). :roll:  :?:
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Serenitys_Dream

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 12:41:11 PM
Joe said there were doubles used in "This Is It". If this entire hoax and not just the film itself is "This Is It" then it is possible that the doubles are not actually in the film but are in the rest of the "This Is It" events such as the ambulance, the helicopter etc.

As for the corpse remember the story of Michael contacting the German doctor who does the human body Plastination?

Michael Jackson set to be embalmed at the O2 Centre after missing the deadline for cryogenic freezing
By Daily Mail Reporter Created 3:07 PM on 26th June 2009

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195750/Michael-Jackson-set-plastinated-missing-deadline-cryogenic-freezing.html

Now this story was full of untruths but maybe it's intention was to lead us to the corpse...

What if Michael didn't contact him to discuss being Plastinated but actually met him to procure a body or bodies for the hoax. This man has access to all kinds of corpses.

German doctor selling human body parts from his lab/museum
Jun 1, 2010  by Laura Trowbridge
Doctor Gunther von Hagens, known as Germany's 'Dr Death', has a new mail order store for anyone wanting to buy body parts.

The world's leading anatomist Dr von Hagens "invented Plastination at the University of Heidelberg in 1977, developed the use of plastinated specimens for medical education and preservation, and established the International Society for Plastination. More than 400 universities in 40 countries utilize Dr. Gunther von Hagens’ preservation technique in their curriculum."

Plastination is the process which preserves the bodies of both people and animals, replacing body fluids with hardened silicon.

According to Sky News, Dr von Hagen is now selling body parts from his Plastinarium in Guben, Germany.

There are all sorts of human body parts for sale. A cross section of a human body sells from £100 to £14,000. Animal body parts are also for sale.

The Plastinarium opened in 2006, but closed two years later for "refurbishment". However, Sky News reports that the project came under religious groups' heavy criticism before reopening just recently.
Religious leaders describe von Hagens' work as "voyeuristic". One priest called it a "sublime form of cannibalism, which violates human dignity."

Dr von Hagens argues that his work is educational and promotes better health, and he is doing nothing wrong because "corpses have no souls".

His bodies come from donors who agree that he can plastinate their bodies after they die.

His Body Worlds exhibits have been seen all over the world.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/292816
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 09:50:36 AM by ForstAMoon »

Offline loyalfan

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 01:13:45 PM
well i also think ..lax  is the correct way to follow....and presumably the person photgraphed hiding behind the ambulance on the driveway that day cant have been micheal...............an personally i have never believed there was a body at all................these are only my personal gut feeling opinions of course.........i am very interested to follow this.....but i reckon it wont be an easy task.for us to get to an ending .......but i will help if i can     xxxx
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 02:21:41 PM
perhaps michael didn't go to airport to leave but to pick up someone who was arriving. but unfortunately didn't make alive to the destination :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline tekamjforever

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
perhaps michael didn't go to airport to leave but to pick up someone who was arriving. but unfortunately didn't make alive to the destination :?

I do not understand ... can you explain more clearly please? :)
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Offline curls

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 03:25:21 PM
My head hurts! I don't know where to start! I'm wondering now if what I thought was TS giving us hints (airport/dummies/corpses) was actually him throwing us off the scent. Re-reading it for the umpteenth time, it almost seems like he was being too helpful in that update! It's funny that after all that's been discovered,discussed and dissected I still haven't a clue what's been going on! Illusion, illusion and more illusion!
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: "curls"
My head hurts! I don't know where to start! I'm wondering now if what I thought was TS giving us hints (airport/dummies/corpses) was actually him throwing us off the scent. Re-reading it for the umpteenth time, it almost seems like he was being too helpful in that update! It's funny that after all that's been discovered,discussed and dissected I still haven't a clue what's been going on! Illusion, illusion and more illusion!


don't it make you wanna' scream ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline CC

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: "chappie"
I still believe that someone else died.
And they kept his body warm (hot hot hot in the room) for the right moment to call 911.
Timing?
Why only in the evening and at night a doctor in the house?
If really was Michaels doctor he had to be there 24 hours a day!
Why did he get the iv in the doctors room?
So there was someone in that house who was very sick.
And well taken care of by doctor murray.
He just had to die at the right moment...
But who was it?
Chappie

I think that someone died too... maybe Soule Shawn?
 ;)  but definitly not MJ!
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Offline MissG

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 04:40:03 PM
My "coherent theory" is that there was a body and from there on the "hoax" got started to learn more about MJ.
We are creating a continuation of his biography paralell to what he already has been showing.

Back in 2008 he was facing some claims (from the Saudi Royalty), "debts" and part of them were a project offering his auto-biography and a set of staged concerts.
That has been delievered.

Part of his life has also been being targeted by conspiracy, false allegations and fraud.

MJ feared for his life, his family has talked about an "intervention" but we are not sure what kind of intervention, legal, medical or for security reasons.

One scenario could be that "someone" tried to attemp towards MJ´s life earlier than June 25th and from there on the hoax scenario was developed in order to achieve the different goals all combined together, i.e safety and protection, remembering MJ for the artist and the man he was, not by his trials, the revival of his hits, a real come back and also getting some debts payed on the way ;)

Many other scenarios have been discussed and comes in to my mind as well, as a puzzle.

In conclusion;
MJ was at the airport way before, and I think he really was, in fact, I don´t think he was in L.A on the 25th of June 2009.

The "body", it  was Michael´s, had an "autopsy"but not that type of autopsy as performed to a deceased person...imo, he was being examined alive, as it happened when his trials, needing to expose his body to confirm "colored patches" here and there.

One way or the other, justice will  be done.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


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Offline tekamjforever

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: "curls"
My head hurts! I don't know where to start! I'm wondering now if what I thought was TS giving us hints (airport/dummies/corpses) was actually him throwing us off the scent. Re-reading it for the umpteenth time, it almost seems like he was being too helpful in that update! It's funny that after all that's been discovered,discussed and dissected I still haven't a clue what's been going on! Illusion, illusion and more illusion!

Yes!
All these months, so far, we have absolutely nothing to point to the same point of view. :roll:  I understand that TS also puts us in that situation, every post because he does not send us or not suggests, his personal opinion, but several questions, possibilities and coincidences, with the backing of numerology, the science and does not guarantee accuracy of any of them happening ... not the accuracy of coincidence of events in the media, family, etc., but accuracy, if Michael is alive and if he returns or not, or whether he really died. I think it was a long time, and if this continues, we'll be here in circles for the next 30 years ... Like Elvis. :(  :?:  Excuse me if I'm tired and impatient today. Excuse me, TS, but because many of us are putting all our faith and hope in you!
:oops:
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Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:28:59 PM
Recently, we have been hearing alot about Michael being really cold days before he disappeared...heaters were always on for him, even at the staples centre.

He had to wear" Layers of clothing" just to keep him warm. even though it was in the summer months...and others were dressed in scant clothing..

1.  He had left for the airport on June 24th....evening..the children were never there that night and plans were already in motion....

2.  A body was donated for research, and the ambulance arrived with it in the back, and that's why we never heard or saw them with a siren on......the rest of the journey was in a white body bag, so nobody really knew who was in there....
3..  The autopsy is fake and made up, and this only involves one person..A coroner, who we know has been involved in television shows.....
4.   I think Michael would be somewhere, where the weather is warm..since he was soooo cold...

No dummies other than a photoshopped ambulance picture....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 09:51:17 AM by ForstAMoon »

Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: September 19, 2010, 10:36:09 PM
This is more about our "famous" coroner....Craig Harvey ...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2004576/
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Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: January 21, 2011, 12:24:57 PM
JMO, it had to be a real body, hope it was not his    :cry:
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Offline ignisaeternus

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Re: Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots

  • on: January 21, 2011, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
involved in television shows.....
4.   I think Michael would be somewhere, where the weather is warm..since he was soooo cold...

I hear Marlon Brando's Island near Tahiti is nice and warm.  As is Hawaii.  And there are palmtrees in both (as in the reflection of the water on Michael's Holliwood Star in HOld my Hand AND in the video Path of the Just linked to from Eliza Presley's blog we were redirected to).

 8-)
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