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that last line should have read
he faked his death and intended on coming back... and did these inconsitencies on purpose for us to get to the bottom of!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~Souza~Topic starter

I am curious as if people think this info is good and worth reading. I'll explain why later on.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*Mo*

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Wow, where did you find all this info Sous?  You must have been doing a lot of research while I was abroad!!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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paula-c

If it is good information, must be read very well
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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There is no way I'll ever believe that he used that much medication, let alone owned it. I never bought into the whole "drug addict" story. He was waaay to coordinated to be on so many drugs, and not to mention healthy.

Thanks for the info, its definitely worth reading.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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June 25, 2009 - The Day I Woke Up

definately worth reading
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

MissG

Quote from: "~Souza~"
I am curious as if people think this info is good and worth reading. I'll explain why later on.


Yes, the info is worth reading.

Since the 1st day that Murray became the "executor of MJ" some words ring my bells.
During the research, I tried to find similarities on the case by triying to understand, from the hoax point of view, how MJ would "heal the world" or send a message based on something regarding human rights.

This post of mine may be is not interesting (if fits better in other thread, please, feel free to move it ;) ), or have nothing to do with the question you want to accomplished. Who knows! may be is even extremely boring, but I´ll take the time to post it, because imo, it is relevant to may be understand the issue concerning MJ-->drugs given-->how the drugs were administered outside the hospital by a non qualified anestesiologist-->Murray being judge by it.

Having the bedroom picture on mind,
I do see some similarities within the sedatives administered and their reaction to the body of the intaker and how those drugs were administered with a more complex scenario that leads to the same end "Lethal Dose"

HOSPIRA, INC. and LETHAL INJECTION DRUGS: On March 31, 2010, Hospira Inc., the pharmaceutical company that manufactures all three lethal injection drugs, and the only US manufacturer of the anesthetic sodium thiopental, sent a letter  to state departments of correction, stating their objection to the use of these drugs for executions. A shortage of sodium thiopental, used in both the three and one-drug protocols, may have prompted this letter, but the objection was to the use of any of the drugs for capital punishment purposes.

Lethal injection can cause excruciating pain. Since the first lethal injection on December 7, 1982, over 1,000 prisoners in the USA have been executed by this method and it has all but replaced other methods of execution.
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Lethal injection is the practice of injecting a person with a fatal dose of drugs (typically a
Quote
barbiturate, paralytic, and potassium
solution) for the express purpose of causing the immediate death of the subject. The main application for this procedure is capital punishment, but the term may also be applied in a broad sense to euthanasia and suicide. It kills the person by first putting the person to sleep, then stopping the breathing and heart in that order.
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Barbiturates are drugs that act as central nervous system depressants, and, by virtue of this, they produce a wide spectrum of effects, from mild sedation to total anesthesia. They are also effective as anxiolytics, as hypnotics, and as anticonvulsants. They have addiction potential, both physical and psychological. Barbiturates have now largely been replaced by benzodiazepines  in routine medical practice - for example, in the treatment of anxiety and insomnia – mainly because benzodiazepines are significantly less dangerous in overdose. However, barbiturates are still used in general anesthesia, as well as for epilepsy. Barbiturates are derivatives of barbituric acid.


Neuromuscular blocking drugs block neuromuscular transmission at the neuromuscular junction,[1] causing paralysis of the affected skeletal muscles. This is accomplished either by acting presynaptically via the inhibition of acetylcholine (ACh) synthesis or release, or by acting postsynaptically at the acetylcholine receptors of the motor nerve end-plate. While there are drugs that act presynaptically (such as botulinum toxin and tetrodotoxin), the clinically-relevant drugs work postsynaptically.

Clinically, neuromuscular block is used adjunctively to anesthesia to produce paralysis, so that surgery, especially intra-abdominal and intra-thoracic surgeries, can be conducted with fewer complications. Because the appropriate dose of neuromuscular blocking drug may paralyze muscles required for breathing (i.e. the diaphragm), mechanical ventilation should be available to maintain adequate respiration.

Patients are still aware of pain even after full conduction block has occurred; hence, general anesthetics and/or analgesics must be given to prevent anesthesia awareness.

Quaternary ammonium muscle relaxants are quaternary ammonium salts used as drugs for muscle relaxation, most commonly in anesthesia.


The majority of the potassium chloride produced is used for making fertilizer, since the growth of many plants is limited by their potassium intake. As a chemical feedstock it is used for the manufacture of potassium hydroxide and potassium metal. It is also used in medicine, scientific applications, food processing, and as a sodium-free substitute for table salt (sodium chloride).

Potassium chloride is used as the third of a three-drug combination in lethal injection.
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The Process
  # The prisoner is bound to a gurney; two needles are inserted into the prisoner's veins and a saline solution is injected.
  # Sodium thiopental, an anesthetic, is injected to put the prisoner to sleep.
  # Pavulon, or pancuronium bromide, is released, inducing paralysis and stopping breathing.
  # Finally, the flow of potassium chloride stops the heart. This chemical can cause excruciating pain if the prisoner is still conscious.
The Potential Problems
  # The prisoner resists and delays establishment of an intravenous line.
  # The execution team is not able to find a suitable vein.
  # The mixture or composition of drugs is wrong.
  # The direction of flow of the injection is wrong.
  # The chemicals are directed into tissue rather than a vein.
  # The prisoner does not react normally to the drugs.

The Results
  # If not rendered unconscious, the inmate will feel excruciating pain; if paralyzed by the pancuronium bromide, the inmate will be unable to show this pain.
  # Some executions have lasted between 20 minutes to over an hour and prisoners have been seen gasping for air, grimacing and convulsing during executions.
  # Autopsies have shown severe, foot long chemical burns to the skin and needles have been found in soft tissue.

CONCERNS:
    Misunderstanding the cruel, inhuman and degrading nature of the death penalty.

    By focusing on a presumed reduction in pain suffered during lethal injection, proponents of this method disregard the suffering inflicted on prisoners throughout the entire death penalty process.
    The involvement of health personnel in executions.

    Virtually all codes of professional ethics which consider the death penalty oppose health professional participation. Despite this, health professionals are required by law in many death penalty states to assist executions and in some cases have carried out the killings.
    The potential for physical suffering

    A number of lethal injections in the USA have been botched and caused visible suffering. In addition, a number of recent court challenges have been based on inherent potential problems with the method, notably that the use of a paralysing agent in the lethal mixture could mask any suffering caused by the execution.
    Not a humane mixture for euthanizing animals.

    Because of the potential for masking pain, the American Veterinary Medical Association has rejected the use of paralyzing agents like pancuronium bromide in animal euthanasia. In states like Tennessee and Texas pancuronium bromide is banned for use on animals; yet it continues to be used on humans.

    Statements of U.S. Health Professional Associations on Participation in Executions

            * American Medical Association: A physician, as a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, should not be a participant in a legally authorized execution.

            * American Nurses Association: The American Nurses Association (ANA) is strongly opposed to nurse participation in capital punishment. Participation in executions is viewed as contrary to the fundamental goals and ethical traditions of the profession. (Summary, login required to view full statement)
            * American College of Physicians: Participation by physicians in the execution of prisoners except to certify death is unethical.
            * American Public Health Association: The APHA publicly reaffirm its March 1994 collaborative statement to all health professional societies and state licensing and discipline boards that health professional participation in executions or pre-execution procedures is a serious violation of ethical codes and should be grounds for active disciplinary proceedings including expulsion from society membership and license revocation.
            * National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians: The National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians (NAEMT) is strongly opposed to participation in capital punishment by an EMT, Paramedic or other emergency medical professional. Participation in executions is viewed as contrary to the fundamental goals and ethical obligations of emergency medical services.
            * American Society of Anesthesiologists: Although lethal injection mimics certain technical aspects of the practice of anesthesia, capital punishment in any form is not the practice of medicine ... ASA continues to agree with the position of the American Medical Association on physician involvement in capital punishment. ASA strongly discourages participation by anesthesiologists in executions. (emphasis in original)
           * Society of Correctional Physicians: The correctional health professional shall ... Not be involved in any aspect of execution of the death penalty.


 Are you following me?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

...Many meds are made in Germany,aspirin which is used very often...aspirins were fabricated in Hitlers camps,where doctors made experiments on the prisoners for this medicine.My point is here that news after Michael's death were that he admired Hitler etc etc...this made me think..and wanted to share.
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Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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we all saw Michael in practice for TII.  IMO, there is no way he could have been using all those drugs and still remain as calm and cognitive as he was.  None.  He was not slurring his words.  He was not missing his ques nor his steps.  He was not unable to hold a thought or concentrate.  He was not uncoordinated.  If anything he was calm and very aware of what was going on with the production.  I just don't believe he was using all these meds.  And to be honest, I don't believe that many of them were even his.  The people entrusted to Michael's care still remain very suspect to me.  Klein for one, often appeared to be more under the influence of some mind altering substance than Michael did.   I don't know, but I have always felt that many of those drugs allegedly prescribed for MJ and found in his home were in fact gotten under false pretenses and Michael being used as the scapegoat.  Even if we look at the log of drugs reportedly found on the scene, you see that many of those very old prescriptions still had pills left over.  If he were so addicted, that would never have been the case.  To me, those bottles were planted there to make it appear that Michael was drug crazed.  It's a sham.  There is no way his family had gone to his house to tidy up and left a bevy of ill gotten drugs for the drug enforcement team to find and blame on Michael.  Just didn't happen.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Hoo, I've been working on this when I get the chance, but I keep having to look up the medical terms! I don't believe he took most of this junk at all..
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

curls

Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
......  There is no way his family had gone to his house to tidy up and left a bevy of ill gotten drugs for the drug enforcement team to find and blame on Michael.  Just didn't happen.

Totally agree with you! Unless it was all part of the script!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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2good2btrue

  • Hoaxer
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  • FORGIVENESS IS THE KEY TO YOUR HAPPINESS
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Worth reading Souza.....It is all facts. ;)

I thought MJ didn't ever get to the rehearsals before lunchtime anyhow..He could have slept off the Valium....I take a valium at night, and still get up early with no side-effects....I also take an anti-depressant in the morning..I had all the side effects as described, but it only lasted for the first 4 to 5 wks..

What I'm trying to say is that a persons body does eventually adjust to the side effects of the medication.

But, then again, I don't take the other meds as well..

I would say this list is not a current list, but rather a list of all medications prescribed to Michael over some time for different health issues. Many of the bottles were still quite full.

I doubt he would have ever have taken them all together.....Most doctors would not allow the combination of those certain medications due to their counteractive effects..
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Wow, great post. Good information.

Just a little story from myself... two weeks ago I had to have surgery. The anaesthetic they gave me was Propofol (indeed looks like milk).
Although I of course have to recover from surgery itself, I still feel tired; although I know the anaesthetic only stays in the system for a few hours, I guess if someone used it frequently, he/she would be dizzy/tired all the time.
..
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"You know, I´m serious, dude!" (Akon) LOL

*

~Souza~Topic starter

Quote from: "GirlInTheMirror"
Wow, great post. Good information.

Just a little story from myself... two weeks ago I had to have surgery. The anaesthetic they gave me was Propofol (indeed looks like milk).
Although I of course have to recover from surgery itself, I still feel tired; although I know the anaesthetic only stays in the system for a few hours, I guess if someone used it frequently, he/she would be dizzy/tired all the time.
..

When I had my knee surgery they gave me propofol as well. I woke up very quick and I was clear and energetic immediately, I was also very hungry. I do remember being very tired at night though.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Great information Souza!

There has always been many 'versions' of MJ over the years....some media created, some 'fan'/'non-fan' created, some MJ created, etc.  For me, the drug issue since June 25th has, in essence, boiled all those 'versions' of MJ into only two.  (I would not be surprised if, over the years, he did have dependency issues with pain killers or other meds...that's not what I'm addressing here).  The laundry list of meds, including the propofol, that the media (and perhaps MJ himself) would have us believe, paints a very distinct 'version' of MJ.

If we are to believe that he was as addicted, as they claim, then it would probably not be a far stretch to suggest that he had lost all self-control (as many drug addicts do).  Much can be inferred from that alone.  He would not have been able to focus on his work, while in this condition, let alone co-ordinate, manage, produce, and engineer the top selling music documentary of all time....let alone finish the ever so 'top-secret' Dome project (which we have not yet been fully privy to) just two weeks before his 'death'.  It probably wouldn't be a far stretch, either, to say that if true, his drug addiction would have caused a loss of control over his finances as well (money or fame or recogintion would have taken a backseat to the drugs).  And, by extension, a loss over his professional and personal relationships as well (how many times have we heard that MJ surrounded himself with enablers?).  So, not only would he have been a walking zombie incapable of putting in a regular 8-hour shift (or a coherent sentence), let alone a grueling rehearsal schedule, but he would have lost the ability to control his finances...and most importantly, he would have distanced himself from everyone (except those that supported his habit), instead of embarking on an 'adventure' to touch people's lives and hearts (even if it that adventure was simply the This Is It concerts....which we can safely guess is SOOOO much more).

The other 'version' of MJ, if we eliminate the drug rumors (which is what IMO they are)...is a very astute businessman (see Sterchen's list, sorry for misspelling), a very generous humanitarian (see Souza's list), a very kind and gentle father (listen to anything anyone has ever said about him being a father), and a MAN would went about doing extraordinary things while everyone was too stuck on the drug "version" to notice.

But who knows?  I may be wrong and I can say with 100000000% certainty that if the 'drug' version of MJ turns out to be true, then I won't love him any less, but I will definitely come to know "the man I never knew".

With L.O.V.E. always.
Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 11:42:45 AM by BeTheChange
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The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

 

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