Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 07:05:14 AM
I have some serious doubts as to "Monster", "Breaking News" and "Keep Your Head Up" like most of us. I was listening to these songs mixed among the 100%-Michael's-no-doubt songs and I was like " him, not him, him, hot him, him, not him..." I wish to start a serious discussion about thet. I already got an album - not mp3 tracks from the internet and I feel something is wrong. I do believe you are going to come backk to this thread on Dec 14th or 15th when you'll have the album in your hands.
I'm going to ennumerate my doubts and I'll ask you, my Family, for the feedback:


1. The voice on these 3 tracks lacks Michael's depth and strength. I cannnot hear the characteristic Michael lower tones (Kompare "Keep Your Head Up" and "Keep The Faith")
2. The pronunciation of some words is different (Monsta not Monster - sounds like British pronunciation to me)
3. The voice seems like a voice of a younger person
4. The mannerism of speech and accent is different
5. The voice is weak, I had an impression that somebody is pressing Michael's (or this person's) throat when he was singing... Like he was afraid to sing louder... Michaels voice is sharp like a sword, it breaks glass
6. The shaky, shivery vibrato...  
7. Pronunciation of certain consonants: Michael has a special feature while saying the words like "You", "need you", "truth", the letter "t" at the end of a word... He softens these consonants in his own typical way. The whole family speaks similarly, I think they took it after Joe or Katherine. I didn't notice anything like that in these songs....
8. The falsetto is different...
9. The voice lacks this "nosey" feature (the "stuffed nose effect" - I'm not a Native English speaker - please forgive me)


Call me a lunatic or crazy but I've been listening to Michael's voice for 18 years and something is wrong to me.  
Of course, I know that voice is something that changes with the age - there's, for example, a huge difference between "Destiny" Michael and "Invincible" Michael...
However, I'm not sure to what extent this change may occur...

 
I would like you to pay attention to Michael's/not Michael's mannerism of singing and pronouncing certain words in these three songs. I am hoping for some comparisons to appear on youtube - I'd love to hear a word by word scrutiny of specific words Michael pronounces and registers he sings in. Unfortunately I'm not able to do it myself but maybe some of you can, or at least you jump at sucha video on YT. Please, post it here.
If the experts at Sony weren't able to prove it - maybe we, the fans, can. If this is a forgery - then there must be a way to prove it somehow. Of course, I am hoping for the other result as well.. That would be much better... If my suspicions will prove to be false (if Michael himself comes out and tells it's all him - I am ready to go on my knees to Encino (I live in Europe)

Thank you for reading this thread...
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Offline nynyro

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 10:01:12 AM
No I agree, it's suspicious, especially those three tracks.  That's why I'm still undecided about buying the album.  However, I want badly to believe that Michael is behind this.  Based on all the things we do know and the "Hold My Hand" video.  Maybe I'm being naive, I don't know.  I think a lot about Sony and their conspiracy against him, but I also think about all of the business ventures he had, and how many of the executives at Sony have left or been pushed out.  I think that  there's a possibility he might own part of Sony.  Also, when he made the "Sony Kills" speech, "Sony" could have been a code word for something else.
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Offline gstatpro

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 01:03:42 PM
I own a recording studio and the voice is MJ but very filtered and muffled due to alot of editing. Listen to the hee hee's on Breaking News and they are cut off like there was too much breathing on the tracks. In my mind he was very sensitive to his singing capabilities as he got older and really cherished his voice as you see in TII. Read the August 2009 Rolling Stones Magazine with him on the cover.
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Offline jacilovesmichael

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 01:10:35 PM
I agree, and it's only those 3 songs. Interesting that they were the ones recorded with that Cascio guy. And the titles/lyrics of them all are very interesting.  I feel like it has to be a message. Like I said in another thread, I wouldn't doubt that it is Michael singing - but with intentions to manipulate his voice to sound different. Maybe to create this controversy? To me that seems more realistic than getting someone else to record them, but I could be wrong.

10 tracks on the album, right? That means SEVEN are the real deal without question. Imagine that  ;)
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Offline CC

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
I agree, and it's only those 3 songs. Interesting that they were the ones recorded with that Cascio guy. And the titles/lyrics of them all are very interesting.  I feel like it has to be a message. Like I said in another thread, I wouldn't doubt that it is Michael singing - but with intentions to manipulate his voice to sound different. Maybe to create this controversy? To me that seems more realistic than getting someone else to record them, but I could be wrong.

10 tracks on the album, right? That means SEVEN are the real deal without question. Imagine that  ;)


is michael from 6 feet under... :lol:  that´s why sounds so different... is just about have the worl in his hands, he loves to create controversy, great observation about 7 tracks ;)
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 04:40:40 PM
Hey Nynyro, CC, Gstatpro & Jacilovesmichael. Thanks for your responses. You are all lifting up my spirits.  :)
I'd like you to ask you how do you relate to the differences in this person's accent and pronunciation? I'm not a native English speaker (but I'm said to have a rather good ear  :oops:  ) but to me the pronunciation of this "person" is a bit different than Michael's. Although you may process somebody's voice in the studio - it is hard to process their pronunciation. It is something you'd have to train...  :|
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 06:27:46 PM
Reposting this link here - for the purpose of this thread - comparison.

This is Jason Malachi singing. Sounds a bit like "Keep your head up" etc...  :?
 
http://http://video.yahoo.com/watch/150573/1627044


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Offline CC

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 11, 2010, 08:08:17 PM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Hey Nynyro, CC, Gstatpro & Jacilovesmichael. Thanks for your responses. You are all lifting up my spirits.  :)
I'd like you to ask you how do you relate to the differences in this person's accent and pronunciation? I'm not a native English speaker (but I'm said to have a rather good ear  :oops:  ) but to me the pronunciation of this "person" is a bit different than Michael's. Although you may process somebody's voice in the studio - it is hard to process their pronunciation. It is something you'd have to train...  :|

watch the video with bashit, sorry... bashir interview... when they are at MJ studio and he is trying to teach bashit (sorrry again) how to moonwalk, at the beggining he say that he likes his acent and MJ change his voice and talk line an english person... this is what mj do, he can change voice, sounds, tone, acent... is what make him so unique!!!

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMBTVN-tJUI i think this is it! ;)
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 12, 2010, 09:34:35 AM
Thanks, CC - I am well aware of it. I know Michael is very talented. He can do EVERYTHING what he wants with his voice.  He pronounces the word "ask you" in this interview with perfect British RP. However, I don't see a single reason why should he change his voice/pronunciation/whatever, on the CD he wants to beat the "Thriller" record with. Why should he cheat his fans while singing?
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Offline gstatpro

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 12, 2010, 02:15:55 PM
Again in a recording studio thingscan be cut so the words sound like there is no tail to the words when we say things like i heard somethin about him saying monsta not monster but easily can be cut and sound like monsta..so heres some more proof of the cut up piece together songs Teddy Riley said in a interview  "Because Michael's songs are all about love, we could take vocals from here, put it with vocals from this. It's easy to do and I've demonstrated that." so that tells me michael could have layed down vocals for other songs or whatever and they used the recordings whether it be for that particular song but just to piece it together, using all the element of what they are doing...(tempo,pitch and filteration)
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Offline Cully Surroga

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 13, 2010, 12:33:21 PM
Quote
1. The voice on these 3 tracks lacks Michael's depth and strength. I cannnot hear the characteristic Michael lower tones (Kompare "Keep Your Head Up" and "Keep The Faith")
2. The pronunciation of some words is different (Monsta not Monster - sounds like British pronunciation to me)
3. The voice seems like a voice of a younger person
4. The mannerism of speech and accent is different
5. The voice is weak, I had an impression that somebody is pressing Michael's (or this person's) throat when he was singing... Like he was afraid to sing louder... Michaels voice is sharp like a sword, it breaks glass
6. The shaky, shivery vibrato...
7. Pronunciation of certain consonants: Michael has a special feature while saying the words like "You", "need you", "truth", the letter "t" at the end of a word... He softens these consonants in his own typical way. The whole family speaks similarly, I think they took it after Joe or Katherine. I didn't notice anything like that in these songs....
8. The falsetto is different...
9. The voice lacks this "nosey" feature (the "stuffed nose effect" - I'm not a Native English speaker - please forgive me)

I agree with each point on your list.
I'm surprised to not see more people having at least a few doubts...

 The obvious use of effects on '2000 Watts' didn't alter the feeling and presence of MJ. On those few songs it's not about effects and filters, I simply don't feel the presence of MJ at all. Disturbingly enough i do recognize him on some words out of a few sentences.
It's even more obvious when those particuliar songs are followed by others sounding like genuine MJ, with no room for the slightest doubt.

 I mean, we have followed his work for decades, we know Michael's voice in high and low register, we know him crying and laughing, angry, happy, talking, whispering, screaming, young, very young, older, acting, in disguise or with a cold even! Those voices here sound like none of this. You can play around with sound and singing techniques as much as you want, the timbre of someone's voice cannot be copied perfectly, as it is its very soul.
Still, Teddy Riley's statements and various others are confusing.
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 13, 2010, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: "Cully Surroga"
  The obvious use of effects on '2000 Watts' didn't alter the feeling and presence of MJ. On those few songs it's not about effects and filters, I simply don't feel the presence of MJ at all. Disturbingly enough i do recognize him on some words out of a few sentences.
It's even more obvious when those particuliar songs are followed by others sounding like genuine MJ, with no room for the slightest doubt.

 I mean, we have followed his work for decades, we know Michael's voice in high and low register, we know him crying and laughing, angry, happy, talking, whispering, screaming, young, very young, older, acting, in disguise or with a cold even! Those voices here sound like none of this. You can play around with sound and singing techniques as much as you want, the timbre of someone's voice cannot be copied perfectly, as it is its very soul.
Still, Teddy Riley's statements and various others are confusing.


I second that!  :!: Thanks and welcome to the forum!  :mrgreen:
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Offline rayvyn

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 12:58:28 AM
This isn't up to Michael's standard, and I won't be buying the CD. I'll just enjoy his previous work.
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 04:53:30 AM
@ rayvyn

I respect your decision but the other songs are awesome! Really!  :)
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Offline rayvyn

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 12:32:58 PM
@VeryLittleSusie

Thanks. I've heard three that I like, and I might download those three from iTunes, but I'm not sure. I'm having issues about Sony, but I need to read up more on that before I decide. It's good you're enjoying the music.   :)
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Offline becca26

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 01:33:18 PM
I just bought the album on I tunes and I have headphones on.... I am a singer and have been since I was 5 and I am 28 now. I have stuff on video when I was a child and demos from when I was 12 till the age I am now, I have sung in studios stages ect. I think they are all him, but some may have not been completed, so they had to go in and clean in up, I am not Michael Jackson so can say if he would want this out or not, no of us can. But I know MJ had issues with sony in the past so why no give them the so so tracks and then once the contract is up then let his children release the stuff he had finished. Just thinking aloud :D
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Offline letstalkagain

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 07:52:27 PM
The Cascios were only on Oprah to promote this album because the family have a vested interest in it/
More money, more money!
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 08:43:56 PM
is there a background story as to how these tracks from this family happened to end up on the album? was it ever michaels intention for them to be taken as a serious effort?
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Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline rayvyn

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 09:03:34 PM
Quote from: "becca26"
I just bought the album on I tunes and I have headphones on.... I am a singer and have been since I was 5 and I am 28 now. I have stuff on video when I was a child and demos from when I was 12 till the age I am now, I have sung in studios stages ect. I think they are all him, but some may have not been completed, so they had to go in and clean in up, I am not Michael Jackson so can say if he would want this out or not, no of us can. But I know MJ had issues with sony in the past so why no give them the so so tracks and then once the contract is up then let his children release the stuff he had finished. Just thinking aloud :D


That's really a good idea about releasing the finished recordings after the contract is up, if in fact there are recordings that are complete.
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Offline King_Michael

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 14, 2010, 10:46:23 PM
Yeah I don't know if I'm buying this album it just seems to fishy seems like their are fake MJ's on here I love hold my hand but I don't know it just seems weird
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 15, 2010, 07:54:00 AM
Just giving some update on my ow topic:  :oops:

People on  Prince's forum (Prince from "Purple Rain") say that it's Eddie Cascio who is singing on these 3 Cascio songs!  To them - the two have identical pronunciation and accent!
http://http://prince.org/msg/8/347924?jump=945&pg=32

And I'll repost a link of Jason Malachi singing live - just for comparison:
Credit to: 2good2btrue

[youtube:1h4ztmdx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiHhB_KzXIg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:1h4ztmdx]
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Offline jacilovesmichael

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 18, 2010, 09:25:17 AM
Just a little advice...I was listening in my car last night and I turned the bass and treb all the way down so that the voice was mostly what I could hear, and that took away all doubt for me. It's him.

I still think that it may have been done on purpose for confusion, but I also think it's the production style that is causing us to wonder. What I mean is, usually Michael goes in the studio and records the main vocals in one take and then ad-libs and harmony are added. But that's not what is "normal" for all artists to do. It takes a lot of takes and editing and auto-tuning to make some artists sound how they do on their records. I think that's why it sounds so different. These songs were completed more like the pop records of today, which makes them sound even more relevant as well as different. Also, he's singing in his lower register most the time which we aren't used to.

I think this just proves that he really is the King of Pop -  he can literally create anything and it will be 100 times better than whatever music is out today. Plus the controversy sells, obviously...
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Offline gstatpro

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 18, 2010, 12:26:59 PM
Wheres this interview and footage! This will explain it all!!!!

[youtube:3pgbjc2n]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzkI0iMZqA[/youtube:3pgbjc2n]
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Offline jacilovesmichael

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 18, 2010, 12:28:45 PM
Quote from: "gstatpro"
Wheres this interview and footage! This will explain it all!!!!

[youtube:1h2ywcav]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzkI0iMZqA[/youtube:1h2ywcav]


Where's you find that?! And why haven't I seen it...
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Offline gstatpro

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Re: Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

  • on: December 18, 2010, 12:35:27 PM
Quote from: "gstatpro"
Wheres this interview and footage! This will explain it all!!!!

[youtube:x42pn7wx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzkI0iMZqA[/youtube:x42pn7wx]


Heres some of it...


[youtube:x42pn7wx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFgzS6wndd0[/youtube:x42pn7wx]
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