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UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 12:41:07 AM
Has anyone ever seen this article:

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Headline: Jackson's hospital known for 'raising the dead'
UCLA Medical Center surgeon pioneered novel method of reviving patients


The article is rather long, so I'm not going to post the whole thing. Here's just the first paragraph to give you the gyst of it.

When Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest, rescuers took him to a place known for bringing the dead back to life. A world-renowned surgeon at the UCLA Medical Center has pioneered a way to revive people that most doctors would have long written off, including a woman whose heart had stopped for 2 1/2 hours.

I just find that rather interesting, to say the least! Your thoughts?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.  ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

(Translation = Just because I might disagree with you does not mean I\'m attacking you.)

*

Lorrie

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 12:51:12 AM
Yep. Saw the article almost as soon as it was posted at the beginning of July, and it has influenced my perspective on June 25 ever since. It's a large part of the reason why I feel the way I do about the situation with Michael and why I'm so consistently confident that he isn't dead.

I'm surprised that more attention hasn't been paid to the article because it provides an excellent preliminary explanation for what could realistically be going on. Maybe not enough people have read it...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 12:57:02 AM
yeah .. I have ever heard this .. it's very interesting ..  :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You gave me strenght when I wasn\'t strong ..
You gave me hope when all hope was lost ..
You open my eyes when I couldn\'t see ..
Thank you for everything, Michael ..
ILYSM !

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 01:55:40 AM
"We have no idea when he died versus when he was found," Buckberg said in a telephone interview.

Isn't this unambiguously implying MJ was already dead BEFORE paramedics arrived? But you cannot say someone with a weak pulse is dead, and if i remember correctly that is the last official version - that his heart was beating but he failed breathing? And besides, again according to the information we have from media, there's Murray's testimony of when exactly he administered what and when he found MJ not breathing. So they should know the time...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~A serious face is not yet an indication of intellect. All stupid things in the world are done with that exact expression. Smile, gentlemen, smile!~  

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 02:23:41 AM
Yes, I remember reading this article.  The comment tinker_bell cited is very interesting, as Dr. Buckberg does in fact sound like he is saying MJ was dead before he was brought in.  I don't take that as good news if he knows anything about the case.  If there was a chance they could have saved him why wasn't this doctor called in?  Or do you guys actually think he was?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 02:28:43 AM
Quote from: "ILuvUMoreMJ"
Yes, I remember reading this article.  The comment tinker_bell cited is very interesting, as Dr. Buckberg does in fact sound like he is saying MJ was dead before he was brought in.  I don't take that as good news if he knows anything about the case.
Hm, i guess it is good news, because it shows more inconsistencies.
As it was already mentioned, MJ had a weak pulse. This Buckberg-statement sounds as if he was already dead though. But on the other hand they still tried to resuscitate him for more than an hour - why, if he was already dead for some time?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"You know, I´m serious, dude!" (Akon) LOL

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 02:34:53 AM
You're right...so many inconsistencies.  Who actually said he had a weak pulse though?  Are we just going by Dr. Murray's statement?  No doctor or paramedic has actually spoken as far as I know.  Who knows what we should believe.  The main reason I believe this is a hoax is that absolutely nothing makes sense!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 03:05:49 AM
Quote from: "ILuvUMoreMJ"
You're right...so many inconsistencies. Who actually said he had a weak pulse though?  Are we just going by Dr. Murray's statement? No doctor or paramedic has actually spoken as far as I know.  Who knows what we should believe.  The main reason I believe this is a hoax is that absolutely nothing makes sense!

It was Doc Murray's statement that MJ had a weak pulse. And here are my issues with that whole thing.

1. For Murray to say that, if MJ is dead, it's a B.S. statement. If he's dead, Murray's only saying that as a way to prove his story and cover his A$$. He can't say he found him dead, because then he'd have to explain how that could have happened if he was truly out of the room for only a couple of minutes. It doesn't add up...leave the room to pee, and come back and MJ is dead? Nope. Doesn't compute.

2. If MJ truly had a weak pulse, why could they not bring him back? We know the doc couldn't do it since he clearly doesn't understand how to do CPR. But the paramedics were there quickly after 911 was called. Why couldn't they bring him back if he had a weak pulse? And if the hospital is known for "raising the dead" that question becomes even more puzzling.

3. Assume the statement about the weak pulse is just a lie...Murray's feeble attempt at a cover story...what about the efforts to revive "MJ?" The paramedics were there for what? Over 40 minutes or so? And then they worked on him at UCLA for another hour or more? Pardon me but, WTF?! We all read the rumors (granted, could be tabloid BS) that "MJ" was already dead when paramedics arrived. So if that's true, if there was no weak pulse or any other signs of life, why the belabored efforts to revive him? The first reports we heard about Murray was that he found MJ a little after 11am. 911 call happens after noon, and the paramedics arrived quickly after the call. If he looked dead to them then, why would they perform such life-saving efforts, especially for over 40 minutes before leaving for UCLA? And by the time they got to UCLA, wouldn't "MJ" look even more dead by that time (despite what the ambulance photo shows us)...a couple of hours after Murray supposedly found MJ in the first place?! Yet the docs at UCLA supposedly worked on him for another hour. And the doc in the article I mentioned didn't work on MJ--and we didn't hear about any of his techniques being used to try to save him either. WHY?
Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 11:21:50 AM by Christiana
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.  ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

(Translation = Just because I might disagree with you does not mean I\'m attacking you.)

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 04:55:33 AM
I have ever heard somewhere that the doctors usually still attempt to revive the patient for several hour even though the patient was recently death ..  :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You gave me strenght when I wasn\'t strong ..
You gave me hope when all hope was lost ..
You open my eyes when I couldn\'t see ..
Thank you for everything, Michael ..
ILYSM !

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 05:20:14 AM
I remember reading UCLA raises the dead back in June/July...

Ironic really, that Michaels body would go somewhere that can raise the dead, considering Thriller is full of zombies, thriller 2 = TII but this time 3D zombies, Moonwalker he comes back, the movie Ghosts he comes back from the dead, Resurrection album plans.. Yes, yes indeed.. very ironic that.  :lol:  ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"They're coming to a rock and roll concert and watching television. That says it all." - Larry Mullen jr on the ZooTV experience.

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 06:00:44 AM
Quote from: "Christiana"
Quote from: "ILuvUMoreMJ"
You're right...so many inconsistencies. Who actually said he had a weak pulse though?  Are we just going by Dr. Murray's statement? No doctor or paramedic has actually spoken as far as I know.  Who knows what we should believe.  The main reason I believe this is a hoax is that absolutely nothing makes sense!

It was Doc Murray's statement that MJ had a weak pulse. And here are my issues with that whole thing.

1. For Murray to say that, if MJ is dead, it's a B.S. statement. If he's dead, Murray's only saying that as a way to prove his story and cover his A$$. He can't say he found him dead, because then he'd have to explain how that could have happened if he was truly out of the room for only a couple of minutes. It doesn't add up...leave the room to pee, and come back and MJ is dead? Nope. Doesn't compute.

2. If MJ truly had a weak pulse, why could they not bring him back? We know the doc couldn't do it since he clearly doesn't understand how to do CPR. But the paramedics were there quickly after 911 was called. Why couldn't they bring him back if he had a weak pulse? And if the hospital is known for "raising the dead" that question becomes even more puzzling.

3. Assume the statement about the weak statement is just a lie...Murray's feeble attempt at a cover story...what about the efforts to revive "MJ?" The paramedics were there for what? Over 40 minutes or so? And then they worked on him at UCLA for another hour or more? Pardon me but, WTF?! We all read the rumors (granted, could be tabloid BS) that "MJ" was already dead when paramedics arrived. So if that's true, if there was no weak pulse or any other signs of life, why the belabored efforts to revive him? The first reports we heard about Murray was that he found MJ a little after 11am. 911 call happens after noon, and the paramedics arrived quickly after the call. If he looked dead to them then, why would they perform such life-saving efforts, especially for over 40 minutes before leaving for UCLA? And by the time they got to UCLA, wouldn't "MJ" look even more dead by that time (despite what the ambulance photo shows us)...a couple of hours after Murray supposedly found MJ in the first place?! Yet the docs at UCLA supposedly worked on him for another hour. And the doc in the article I mentioned didn't work on MJ--and we didn't hear about any of his techniques being used to try to save him either. WHY?

Great questions...and it seems like there are no logical answers.  I can't believe the general public isn't more suspicious about all these inconsistencies.  It screams hoax or coverup, because something sure isn't right.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

*

larab

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 18, 2009, 06:26:32 AM
do we know if this new technique works in case of drug overdose?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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LLJ

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 20, 2009, 09:15:36 AM
If MJ had a weak pulse, like Murray said, he shouldn't have done chest compressions, only mouth to mouth (as far as I know?)

Also,if they had MJ in the ambulance and wanted the doctors at UCLA to revive him why drive so slow? And why waste time trying to revive him when the hospital isn't really far away? Why not leave immediately, while giving him oxygen? I'm not an expert so maybe there are logical explanations?

And the one that makes me sometimes think this is rather a cover up (AND I PRAY I'M WRONG) - why did Murray wait so long to call for help. I mean, what will we do? FIRST SHOUT OR RUN YOUR ASS OFF TO GET THE CALL MADE.  At hospital they will be able to perform procedures that a doctor at home cant. Then you can continue to try it yourself. Even if you are a doctor and you manage to get him breathing again, I think your patient will still have to go to hospital?  

Well, just some questions and opinions of mine..

What do you guys think?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Deal with the faults of others as gently as with your own.
~ Chinese proverb

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 20, 2009, 06:56:35 PM
Quote from: "LLJ"
If MJ had a weak pulse, like Murray said, he shouldn't have done chest compressions, only mouth to mouth (as far as I know?)

Also,if they had MJ in the ambulance and wanted the doctors at UCLA to revive him why drive so slow? And why waste time trying to revive him when the hospital isn't really far away? Why not leave immediately, while giving him oxygen? I'm not an expert so maybe there are logical explanations?

And the one that makes me sometimes think this is rather a cover up (AND I PRAY I'M WRONG) - why did Murray wait so long to call for help. I mean, what will we do? FIRST SHOUT OR RUN YOUR ASS OFF TO GET THE CALL MADE.  At hospital they will be able to perform procedures that a doctor at home cant. Then you can continue to try it yourself. Even if you are a doctor and you manage to get him breathing again, I think your patient will still have to go to hospital?  

Well, just some questions and opinions of mine..

What do you guys think?

I hate to think it, but it's very possible that Murray was just covering his ass.  You're right that if MJ had a pulse then Alberto saying the doctor was "pumping him" doesn't make sense.  But since Murray's story is so ridiculous with the time frame of calls, and all the drugs he gave him, etc. why wasn't the LAPD called right away, and why didn't they search the house until two days later?  I just hope we know the truth one day.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

Re: UCLA Known for "Raising the Dead!"
December 21, 2009, 01:02:35 PM
Well, you know, and I'm just throwing this out there because I like to explore ALL possible explanations...it's very possible that if MJ is dead, then Murray's story is all lies. I mean, just say for the sake of argument here that MJ is dead. So Murray gives him the propofol (and likely more than then 25mg he says he did) and leaves the room...but instead of just leaving for a couple of minutes to relieve himself, he's actually gone for over 40 minutes, making his phone calls. He heads back to the room and finds MJ not breathing. That's when he panics...because he knows he was out of the room for too long, so he's gonna get the blame for this if he can't bring MJ back. Perhaps he tries CPR or something for a minute or so...but he doesn't want to call 911 because he'd have to tell them what happened and he doesn't want to do that (or he wants time to concoct his story). So he runs downstairs to yell for Security. When Alberto (and whomever else) gets there, Murray has him call 911 while he just continues CPR on MJ. And we know the rest according to the 911 call. This would is plausible, IF MJ is dead. But it does still beg the question: why would Murray be doing CPR on a bed? That makes him seem like a complete idiot. Can a doctor, a Cardiologist no less, really not understand how to do CPR? And as someone else pointed out, if he had a faint pulse (though that could be a lie too), would the chest compressions even be necessary?

Whether MJ is alive or dead, the account of what happened that day does NOT make sense. Either way, there has to be a lot more to this story than we know.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.  ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

(Translation = Just because I might disagree with you does not mean I\'m attacking you.)

 

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