Official General Prelim Discussion thread

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Offline Sinderella

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Official General Prelim Discussion thread

  • on: January 04, 2011, 09:46:04 PM
A summary from inside the court 4/1/11

Quote
COURT – DAY 1
04/01/11

Judge :- Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor
Prosecutor:  Assistant Deputy D.A. David Walgren
Defence: Ed Chernoff

Family attending:-
Katherine Jackson
LaToya Jackson
Jackie Jackson

Witnesses called:-
Kenny Ortega (Producer/Director – This Is It)
Michael Amir( Michael’s Bodyguards)
Faheen Muhammed (Michael’s Bodyguard)

Court convened at 9am.

Reports have Murray as usual been ‘shepharded’ in through the back door and arriving in court looking remarkably relaxed – as he continued to be throughout the whole proceedings.
Fans remained outside behaved in a respectful and dignified manner as the family filed in.

Deputy District Attorney, David Walgren said he will rely on Murray's statements to police, as well as text messages, phone records and expert testimony to show the doctor should stand trial.

He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.

He faulted the doctor in opening statements for performing CPR on Jackson with one hand on his bed, rather than a hard surface as is generally required.

He also stated that “ fabulous" rehearsal two days before his death and was set to go to London in a few days.”

Walgren also plans to call several experts whom he said would testify, "there are a number of actions displayed by Dr. Murray that show an extreme deviation from the standard of care."

The prosecutor also said he would call a bodyguard who would testify that Murray ordered him to collect items from Jackson's bedroom

The first witness the prosecution called was "This Is It" producer/director Kenny Ortega

KENNY ORTEGA

Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson’s home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.

Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.

Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.

"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."

Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.

"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."

The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.

"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."

Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.

He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.

"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said.

On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.

MICHAEL AMIR  WILLIAMS

Another witness, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams, described Murray calling him on the day the superstar died and frantically asking him to get help from bodyguards for Jackson, who was in a bedroom

Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM  said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."

Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.

Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up
 
Williams added that staff were never allowed upstairs.

Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson’s children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.

He went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some ‘cream’ that “Michael wouldn’t want people to see”. Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to ‘lock it down’. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!


FAHEEN MUHAMMED

One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"

"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said

When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."

Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there,"

Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.

Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.

Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.

"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.

The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.

The session ended at approx 16.30pm.  To be reconvened on 5/1/11 at 09.30am


Travis Payne was also present.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline allforus7

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 10:16:37 PM
Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.

THIS DOES NOT LOOK GOOD AT ALL!
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Offline LavdHim

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 10:49:22 PM
this is not good .
If michael really died then I don't know what to say anymore .
This murray is ridiculous . really  :cry:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
You gave me strenght when I wasn\'t strong ..
You gave me hope when all hope was lost ..
You open my eyes when I couldn\'t see ..
Thank you for everything, Michael ..
ILYSM !

Offline allforus7

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 10:55:39 PM
And if he didn't die and Murray helped him this statement doesn't make sense. It's like Michael is against Murray.
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Offline PeaceLoveHappiness

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:01:28 PM
Thanks for the recap Sinderella!

Something sticks out to me though.  Didn't Kai Chase say that someone (Thome I think?) dismissed all of the staff about 1/2 hour after Michael was taken to the hospital?  If that is the case, who was Williams calling at the home?
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Offline LavdHim

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
Quote from: "allforus7"
And if he didn't die and Murray helped him this statement doesn't make sense. It's like Michael is against Murray.

yeah this is ridiculous . why murray upset that kenny sent michael home . This is clear that he want to force michael to do rehearsal eventhough he was sick .  :evil:
also , murray still dare to asked william to get him food when michael was dying (if this is true )  :shock: this is unbelieveable .
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
You gave me strenght when I wasn\'t strong ..
You gave me hope when all hope was lost ..
You open my eyes when I couldn\'t see ..
Thank you for everything, Michael ..
ILYSM !

Offline mjboogie

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:08:22 PM
Dont know if this is a hoax anymore..... :cry:  :cry:
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Offline allforus7

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:10:03 PM
............
Where are the clues, now, Michael?
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Offline mjssoulmate

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:11:45 PM
He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.

This doesn't speak well of the bodyguards either.  Their job is to protect.  Then why would they do what a joke of a doctor tells them.  If Mike is really gone, they are all at fault here.  You don't delay calling 911.
The kids being outside the bedroom door contradicts what Kai Chase told in her interviews.  Who is lying?  She also said that the staff didn't see the paramedics take Mike out of the house, because the staff was released.  so does that mean they left the kids alone, and that's why they were upstairs?  This is really freaking me out.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 11:16:13 PM by mjssoulmate »
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Offline allforus7

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:13:07 PM
And if Michael is not gone, then he starts to incriminate more and more people.
This DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE HOAX.
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Offline rayvyn

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 04, 2011, 11:55:44 PM
Quote from: "mjssoulmate"
He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.

This doesn't speak well of the bodyguards either.  Their job is to protect.  Then why would they do what a joke of a doctor tells them.  If Mike is really gone, they are all at fault here.  You don't delay calling 911.
The kids being outside the bedroom door contradicts what Kai Chase told in her interviews.  Who is lying?  She also said that the staff didn't see the paramedics take Mike out of the house, because the staff was released.  so does that mean they left the kids alone, and that's why they were upstairs?  This is really freaking me out.

Maybe the kids were upstairs at first, and perhaps they were ushered downstairs where they prayed with Kai Chase and others.

I think as testimonies continue, things will become clearer.
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 12:06:50 AM
i don't recall kenny ever mentioning any kind of concerns about michael health except for possibly his weight. where is this coming from now?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Serenitys_Dream

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 12:39:49 AM
Contradictions of Williams' and Muhammed's testimonies taken from their statements to the police back in 2009.

Quote
MICHAEL AMIR WILLIAMS
Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."

Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.

Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up.

March 22, 2010: Alvarez told police he arrived at Jackson's home around 10:20 a.m. He was awaiting instructions for the day in a security trailer outside Jackson's rented mansion when, at 12:17 p.m., his phone rang. It was Williams.

Williams told Alvarez that Murray had just called to say Jackson was in trouble. Alvarez rushed into the mansion and up the stairs to Jackson's room, where he saw Murray standing at the pop star's bedside, performing CPR with one hand, according to the statements.

Alvarez asked the doctor what had happened. "He had a reaction, he had a bad reaction," Murray replied, according to Alvarez's statement.

Murray told Alverez not Williams that Michael "had a bad reaction" unless he told them both this but it is attributed to Alverez.

Quote
Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion
Williams wasn't at the mansion so how could he describe that scene?

Quote
Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson’s children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.
Murray contradicted Dileo?
So Murray must have said that Michael wasn't dead, that is the only contradiction he could have made.
This also contradicts what Katherine said on Oprah, that Murray told her that Michael was dead, if Murray was going around saying Michael was alive.
I also have a video on my youtube in which Dileo claims he told Katherine not Murray.


Quote
Williams went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some ‘cream’ that “Michael wouldn’t want people to see”. Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to ‘lock it down’. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!

At the hospital, after the death had been called, Williams said he saw Murray crying. Murray asked Williams if he or someone else could take him back to the mansion so he could pick up the cream, according to Williams' statement.

Williams said he didn't think it was a good idea for Murray to return to the house. He spoke to Muhammad and they agreed they wouldn't take Murray back. They concocted a story that police had taken all the keys to the vehicles as part of the investigation. Murray said he would take a cab, and Williams said he saw him leave the hospital through a side door.

These events are described somewhat differently between the two reports

Quote
AHEEN MUHAMMED
One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'" "I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said

When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."

March 22, 2010: Murray told the men it was his first time performing CPR, Alvarez said, though Chernoff said Murray had administered CPR many times before.

Not the same statement here at all

Quote
Muhammed, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived

March 22, 2010: The 911 dispatcher told Alvarez to put Jackson on the floor. At that moment, Muhammad rushed into the room and began helping with chest compressions while Murray attempted mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

Quote
Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said. "Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.

March 22, 2010: Two of the star's children, Prince and Paris, came in the room and cried as they saw Murray trying to save their father. A nanny was called to usher them away and they were taken to wait outside in a vehicle.

Didn't Kai Chase, the Cook, say she took the children downstairs to pray.
Which Nanny are they talking about Grace?
There is a big difference between being taken downstairs to pray by the Cook and being taken outside to a vehicle by the Nanny.
And why didn't we see the children in any vehicle outside in Ben Evanstad's "Ambulance loading video", we can see an empty black SUV on that video?


March 22, 2010: Alberto Alvarez,...statement and those from two other Jackson employees also obtained by the AP...

Alvarez and the others who gave the statements, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams and driver/bodyguard Faheem Muhammad, Except for the brief appearances by the nanny and the children, Alvarez and Muhammad were the only others in the room with Murray as he tried to save Jackson before paramedics arrived.

Alvarez, Muhammad and Williams are all represented by attorney Carl Douglas and gave their statements separately on Aug. 31 at the lawyer's Beverly Hills office. None of the three has spoken publicly about the events of June 25.

But they have spoken to each other...
http://http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=10173490&page=1
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Offline reasonables+luvs+MJ

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 12:58:08 AM
Quote from: "mjboogie"
Dont know if this is a hoax anymore..... :cry:  :cry:
Have any room for me? I'm tired of all of this... mess! :|
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
C--ontains
O--ptional
I--nformation
N--ot
C--razy
I--ncidents
D--emanding
E--motional
N--aive
C--razed
E--nforcements


-----------------------------------

b--elieving
e--verything
L--ike
I--nconsistent
E--vidence
v--aries
i--n
n--umerous
g--enres


------------------------------------

If you would just \'Hold my Hand\', together we can cause \'Breaking News\', because we will find out who is \'Behind the Mask\'. --reason

MJhasSpoken

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 01:51:40 AM
Did Kenny previously say MJ was healthy in any of his interviews?
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Offline allforus7

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 02:23:48 AM
From what i recall he always said he's been excited and so ready for the show. I assume that means healthy too...
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Offline Tarja

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 03:48:34 AM
Quote
One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"

"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said


surgeon? A cardiologist  doesn't have to be surgeon too. I don't know about the medical field but.. Did he want to say cardiologist instead of surgeon or the person who wrote this doewn did a mistake?
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Offline The Little Mermaid

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 04:12:42 AM
Quote from: "Sinderella"
Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.

"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."

The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.

"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."


Okay, so Murray gets pissy because he thinks that Ortega had no right to send Michael home? First of all, Kenny was concerned. If he thought Michael was out of it or wasn't feeling well, what was he supposed to do, keep his mouth closed and ignore it because he wasn't "officially" his doctor? Uhm..really? I don't think so. Besides, Kenny didn't force Michael to go home. He asked. He gave Michael a choice and Michael chose to go home. It was Michael's choice.

I find it pretty silly that I-Don't-Know-How-To-Give-CPR-Murray would get upset that Kenny allowed Michael to come home. That's somethin'.

Ugh I can't wait for SOME bit of justice or truth to prevail. My heart can't take this anymore.
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Offline Sinderella

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 06:41:17 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Quote
Did he want to say cardiologist instead of surgeon or the person who wrote this down did a mistake?

No mistake,it was said he was a heart surgeon because Voiceforthesilent commented to me about it yesterday and said something along the lines of 'have you heard this,this just gets better,now they are saying he is a surgeon....'
I think she was watching it on TMZ's link not the ustream J4MJ link that was also active.

Updates as and when,remember though...it was only day one.Don't lose belief,there is a long way to go.
If Kenny turns out to be Judas,he can always be lynched (Y)
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Offline _Anna_

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 06:54:09 AM
But seriously, if you consider Murray to be a surgeon just because the Justice4MJ chat said so.....I'm sorry but that's just fantalk.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline reasonables+luvs+MJ

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 06:54:20 AM
I thought Paris was downstairs with Kai crying and praying that 'daddy' is okay...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
C--ontains
O--ptional
I--nformation
N--ot
C--razy
I--ncidents
D--emanding
E--motional
N--aive
C--razed
E--nforcements


-----------------------------------

b--elieving
e--verything
L--ike
I--nconsistent
E--vidence
v--aries
i--n
n--umerous
g--enres


------------------------------------

If you would just \'Hold my Hand\', together we can cause \'Breaking News\', because we will find out who is \'Behind the Mask\'. --reason

Offline Sinderella

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 07:09:58 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
But seriously, if you consider Murray to be a surgeon just because the Justice4MJ chat said so.....I'm sorry but that's just fantalk.

Excuse me?I am sorry Anna but you really do jump on people too quick.This was written by someone inside the courtroom.This is what was said yesterday...no if's or but's about it.
Do not twist my words.
It has nothing to do with J4MJ they were simply there giving people updates during breaks in court.TMZ were reporting on it too.Infact,it probably came as a shock to them as much as anyone else.
If you have a problem with the truth being written down then I will refrain from updating this through the trial and leave it with just this.
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Offline _Anna_

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 08:15:21 AM
Quote from: "Sinderella"
Quote from: "_Anna_"
But seriously, if you consider Murray to be a surgeon just because the Justice4MJ chat said so.....I'm sorry but that's just fantalk.

Excuse me?I am sorry Anna but you really do jump on people too quick.This was written by someone inside the courtroom.This is what was said yesterday...no if's or but's about it.
Do not twist my words.
It has nothing to do with J4MJ they were simply there giving people updates during breaks in court.TMZ were reporting on it too.Infact,it probably came as a shock to them as much as anyone else.
If you have a problem with the truth being written down then I will refrain from updating this through the trial and leave it with just this.
I have no problem with it, and that's what I understood. That someone or you heard that in the talk in some of those live streams, which would be fantalk. That's what I mean.
I'm not twisting anyone's words, that's what I understood. Then, if someone said that, who is that someone? I want to see if it's really an official statement, because it does matter and I haven't heard that. Cause no one said so far Murray was a surgeon in any official statements.That's why I found it pretty strange.
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Offline MissG

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 08:37:37 AM
Thanks Sinderella for the update.

Besides all that has been said in this thread already, what makes no sense to me as well is that if Michael was dead, paramedics would not take him to the hospital.
A person who dies at home, must be decleared dead by a doctor and a judge (emergency judge) must proceed for the cadaver to be taken out the home. By that time, if MJ was murdered or was just an accident, the procedure would be the same.

A dead person (who dies at home) is not taken to the hospital unless is for examination, and if i am not totally mistaken, the body will be placed with the right forensics department.

This is Hollywood  :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Offline Pablito

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Re: Summary of trial-Day 1 onwards

  • on: January 05, 2011, 09:38:18 AM
I have a bad feeling about this.

I'm starting to belive that Michael is dead, and the Hoax is a Hoax into another Hoax created by the Jackson Family, the Estate and more people who wants money, they want us to believe that he's alive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »