People vs. Dr. Conrad Murray - EMT Testifies Jackson Was Dea

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Offline ~Souza~

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People vs. Dr. Conrad Murray
1/5/2011 10:33 AM PST by TMZ Staff  

EMT Testifies MJ Already Dead ... Murray Mum on Propofol



An EMT who arrived at Michael Jackson's house 4 minutes after the 911 call says Michael was dead when he arrived, and it looked like he had been dead for a long time before Dr. Conrad Murray called 911.

Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient -- extremely frail.

Senneff says he believes Murray must have waited at least 20 minutes before calling 911, based on the condition of the body.

And Senneff said, when he asked Murray if MJ had been taking meds, all Murray volunteered was lorazepan (Ativan).  Murray never uttered a peep about Propofol.

Murray told Senneff Jackson had been "dehydrated."

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DancingTheDream

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On ustream they are saying that the paramedic saw that MJs hands and feet were blue, and the pupils in his eyes are fixed and dialated and dry.

Paramedics asked Murray what had happened and he said "he didnt know" but it had "just happened" and he lied about the drugs, and said he had been treating MJ for dehydration.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ijcsly

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so whats with UCLA saying they got his pulse back???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Online Andrea

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Murray told Senneff Jackson had been "dehydrated."

When I read that, all I could hear in my head was Michael singing "water water" in TII.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline hesouttamylife

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I keep remembering Michael sing we've got 4 years.  The same sentence Murray is facing.
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Offline ~Souza~

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Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient -- extremely frail.

Okay, he's not quite heavy in TII, but extremely frail? I don't think so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline anewfan

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Quote from: "~Souza~"
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Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient -- extremely frail.

Okay, he's not quite heavy in TII, but extremely frail? I don't think so.


That is what stuck out to me....a hospice patient?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Serenitys_Dream

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And Senneff said, when he asked Murray if MJ had been taking meds, all Murray volunteered was lorazepan (Ativan). Murray never uttered a peep about Propofol.

So Murray didn't say anything the propofol and Alvarez didn't say anything about the drugs that Murray just had him pack up into a bag.

Did the EMT notice the IV with saline?
How about the syringe on the floor that E. Fleak reported finding on either June 25 or June 26th (depends on which page of the AR you read).
Did the EMT notice the small empty propofol bottle on the floor?
Maybe he noticed the oxygen tank and mask?
Did any of these things make him suspect that it wasn't just Ativan?

I want more details. TMZ, these are pretty crappy reports!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Loes

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Quote from: "ijcsly"
so whats with UCLA saying they got his pulse back???

Yes, good question ..  ;)

They really need to hear the doctor(s) from UCLA about it.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline PeaceLoveHappiness

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Quote from: "Loes"
Quote from: "ijcsly"
so whats with UCLA saying they got his pulse back???

Yes, good question ..  ;)

They really need to hear the doctor(s) from UCLA about it.



Yes, I am curious to hear their testimonies.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AnaMarcia

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This type of statement makes me very sad.
Then somebody saw  an ECG and proved that Michael was really dead.
I think these people would not lie in court. :cry:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline frogh777

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Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

I want more details. TMZ, these are pretty crappy reports!

yupp they are.. :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline cascademjs

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a hospice patient? what, why offending Michael in his own play.
i hate the light they put him in this hoax, bold, hospice , no, i love Michael too much to accept this crap
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Serenitys_Dream

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Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient

Hospice
Is derived from the Latin hospes, a word which served double-duty in referring both to guests and hosts.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospice

hospes Latin; noun
1. guest
2. host
3. strange
http://http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hospes

So let's rephrase that statement then with one of the definitions that might fit as a replacement for hospice.

Quote
Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a STRANGE patient.

hmm a strange patient...why?
Maybe because he wasn't in need of medical aid at all!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Serenitys_Dream

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Twiggy69:  paramedics said when he walked into room mj was on the bed

Twiggy69:  but hours earlier security had testified that he had been moved to the floor when they called paramedics

Twiggy69:  someone doesn't know what they are talking about

Twiggy69:  paramedics said when he walked into room mj was on the bed

Twiggy69:  and that murray then grabbed him around the upper shoulders and was moving his to the floor by himself

Twiggy69:  doesn't make any sense

Twiggy69:  the judge isn't saying a word

http://http://wwwmjhoaxliveblogspo.chatango.com/

She says she will be posting a blog later tonight and that they have video from the hallway.
http://http://www.mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/

She also says she will be there every day at court for the believers.
She says she spoke to Joe Jackson too.
Samantha Gosselin confronted her today freaking out that MJ was dead.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Serenitys_Dream

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Michael Jackson hearing: Paramedic had 'gut feeling' Dr. Conrad Murray wasn't telling truth
January 5, 2011 |  3:27 pm

A paramedic who was called to the scene of Michael Jackson’s final moments testified Wednesday that he had a “gut feeling” the singer’s physician was not telling the truth as emergency personnel worked to revive the pop icon.

Richard Senneff, who has worked for the Los Angeles Fire Department for 25 years, said that when he arrived at Jackson’s rented Holmby Hills home, Dr. Conrad Murray told him Jackson’s condition had “just happened.”

Yet based on the performer’s dilated pupils, dry eyes and his skin, which was cold to the touch, Senneff believed Jackson may have been dead for more than 20 minutes, the paramedic said.

“All I can tell you is my gut feeling at the time was this did not just happen, it’s been a period of time,” Senneff testified in a hearing being held to determine whether Murray should stand trial in Jackson's death.

Senneff said other things Murray told him did not seem to add up: that Jackson had no underlying condition and was just being treated for dehydration, and that the only medication he had been given was the sedative lorazepam.

Even when pressed repeatedly about what medication Jackson had been given, Murray never mentioned the powerful anesthetic that was eventually determined to have caused the singer’s death.

“At that time or any time, did Dr. Murray tell you he’d given the patient propofol?” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked.

“No, sir,” Senneff responded.

Senneff testified that he initially thought Jackson was a hospice patient because he appeared pale and underweight, with an IV stand and a personal physician at his bedside.
http://http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paramedic-had-gut-feeling-dr-conrad-murray-not-telling-truth.html

There's more of his testimony in this article than TMZ's.
The IV stand makes an appearance here but it still isn't in the AR.

If he was cold to the touch etc. then why was he removed from the scene?
This is not proper protocol when someone is dead at the scene.

Why was he loaded into the ambulance?
Protocol is to leave the body at the scene, contact police and/or the coroner.

Why were resuscitation efforts restarted once he was in the ambulance?
And why would those efforts have continued at the hospital?
And how is it possible that UCLA reports that they did get his heart going again but that he was unable to maintain or sustain a rhythm?
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Offline ignisaeternus

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Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
hospes Latin; noun
1. guest
2. host
3. strange
http://http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hospes

So let's rephrase that statement then with one of the definitions that might fit as a replacement for hospice.

Quote
Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a STRANGE patient.

hmm a strange patient...why?
Maybe because he wasn't in need of medical aid at all!
Someone under Hospice care here in the States is someone who is no longer receiving medical attention beyond managing symptoms (no treatment is administered). The person resides at home and family, aided by special hospice personnel administer most care.  Usually, we are talking elderly patients or cancer patients who will not recover (I was not sure if all our international readers know the concept, so I thought I'd throw it out there).  So, from that perspective it makes sense, what he said.  
However- you might be on to something by going back to the original meaning of the word as the common Hospice concept that makes sense on the surface could have the double meaning you mentioned.  

Does anyone know EMT procedures if they think someone is clearly dead?  I am not sure if a doctor has to call it or if they can stop life saving procedures in cases where the victim is clearly deceased (such as on a crime scene- I mean no one has to call time of death there).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline PeaceLoveHappiness

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Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
Twiggy69:  paramedics said when he walked into room mj was on the bed

Twiggy69:  but hours earlier security had testified that he had been moved to the floor when they called paramedics

Twiggy69:  someone doesn't know what they are talking about

Twiggy69:  paramedics said when he walked into room mj was on the bed

Twiggy69:  and that murray then grabbed him around the upper shoulders and was moving his to the floor by himself

Twiggy69:  doesn't make any sense

Twiggy69:  the judge isn't saying a word

http://http://wwwmjhoaxliveblogspo.chatango.com/

She says she will be posting a blog later tonight and that they have video from the hallway.
http://http://www.mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/

She also says she will be there every day at court for the believers.
She says she spoke to Joe Jackson too.
Samantha Gosselin confronted her today freaking out that MJ was dead.


So now the paramedics and the bodyguards aren't in sync with one another?  Alvarez says that he helped Murray get Michael on the floor while they were on the phone with the 911 dispatch, and the paramedics claim that Michael was still on the bed when they arrived?  Which is it then?  Michael is a talented guy, but I don't think he can be lying on the bed and on the floor at the same time!
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Offline dominque

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They probualary moved him back on the bed before paramedics came.
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Offline LadyMedic

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Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
hospes Latin; noun
1. guest
2. host
3. strange
http://http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hospes

So let's rephrase that statement then with one of the definitions that might fit as a replacement for hospice.

Quote
Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a STRANGE patient.

hmm a strange patient...why?
Maybe because he wasn't in need of medical aid at all!
Someone under Hospice care here in the States is someone who is no longer receiving medical attention beyond managing symptoms (no treatment is administered). The person resides at home and family, aided by special hospice personnel administer most care.  Usually, we are talking elderly patients or cancer patients who will not recover (I was not sure if all our international readers know the concept, so I thought I'd throw it out there).  So, from that perspective it makes sense, what he said.  
However- you might be on to something by going back to the original meaning of the word as the common Hospice concept that makes sense on the surface could have the double meaning you mentioned.  

Does anyone know EMT procedures if they think someone is clearly dead?  I am not sure if a doctor has to call it or if they can stop life saving procedures in cases where the victim is clearly deceased (such as on a crime scene- I mean no one has to call time of death there).
All they meant by Hospice what what they said - extremely weak. People on Hospice are terminally ill patients that are home to die. They are usually on pain medications to keep them comfortable before they pass. The set up in the house and apparently the way MJ looked was similiar to a Hospice patient.

If someone is clearly dead, the body stays on scene and the police handle it. An ME or coroner comes (depending on local protocols) and the medics leave the scene. Again, depending on protocol, the medics either pronounce the patient and give a time of death, or they presume death and call the hospital and talk to an ED MD, tell them why the patient is dead and the MD pronounces. And the patient always needs a time of death, even at a crime scene. Whether you found 95 year old grandma dead in bed for a day or a guy who just got shot to death, they still get a time of death.
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Offline ignisaeternus

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So, the paramedics could call time of death if they were convinced the person died ( as they said they were). Makes me think, the plan was to NOT have the house be the crime scene. All attention then shifted to the ambulance and UCLA- in line with any good magic trick where you distract the audience.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Hope is both the earliest and the most indispensable virtue inherent in the state of being alive. If life is to be sustained hope must remain, even where confidence is wounded, trust impaired."
Erik H. Erikson

Offline Grace

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Do we remember how many staff were said to have been on the site?

We know about:
Richard Senneff
Martin Blount (both testified)
(I am missing the driver of the ambulance)

and the LAFD #71 fire station team:
Jeff M.
Mark
John
Kenny
Out of this team Jeff was for sure on site as he appears to be the one leading the ambulance to back out of the yard.

Who will be called in to testify next?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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