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Serenitys_Dream

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Michael Jackson hearing: Paramedic had 'gut feeling' Dr. Conrad Murray wasn't telling truth
January 5, 2011 |  3:27 pm

A paramedic who was called to the scene of Michael Jackson’s final moments testified Wednesday that he had a “gut feeling” the singer’s physician was not telling the truth as emergency personnel worked to revive the pop icon.

Richard Senneff, who has worked for the Los Angeles Fire Department for 25 years, said that when he arrived at Jackson’s rented Holmby Hills home, Dr. Conrad Murray told him Jackson’s condition had “just happened.”

Yet based on the performer’s dilated pupils, dry eyes and his skin, which was cold to the touch, Senneff believed Jackson may have been dead for more than 20 minutes, the paramedic said.

“All I can tell you is my gut feeling at the time was this did not just happen, it’s been a period of time,” Senneff testified in a hearing being held to determine whether Murray should stand trial in Jackson's death.

Senneff said other things Murray told him did not seem to add up: that Jackson had no underlying condition and was just being treated for dehydration, and that the only medication he had been given was the sedative lorazepam.

Even when pressed repeatedly about what medication Jackson had been given, Murray never mentioned the powerful anesthetic that was eventually determined to have caused the singer’s death.

“At that time or any time, did Dr. Murray tell you he’d given the patient propofol?” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked.

“No, sir,” Senneff responded.

Senneff testified that he initially thought Jackson was a hospice patient because he appeared pale and underweight, with an IV stand and a personal physician at his bedside.
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There's more of his testimony in this article than TMZ's.
The IV stand makes an appearance here but it still isn't in the AR.

If he was cold to the touch etc. then why was he removed from the scene?
This is not proper protocol when someone is dead at the scene.

Why was he loaded into the ambulance?
Protocol is to leave the body at the scene, contact police and/or the coroner.

Why were resuscitation efforts restarted once he was in the ambulance?
And why would those efforts have continued at the hospital?
And how is it possible that UCLA reports that they did get his heart going again but that he was unable to maintain or sustain a rhythm?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
hospes Latin; noun
1. guest
2. host
3. strange
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So let's rephrase that statement then with one of the definitions that might fit as a replacement for hospice.

Quote
Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a STRANGE patient.

hmm a strange patient...why?
Maybe because he wasn't in need of medical aid at all!
Someone under Hospice care here in the States is someone who is no longer receiving medical attention beyond managing symptoms (no treatment is administered). The person resides at home and family, aided by special hospice personnel administer most care.  Usually, we are talking elderly patients or cancer patients who will not recover (I was not sure if all our international readers know the concept, so I thought I'd throw it out there).  So, from that perspective it makes sense, what he said.  
However- you might be on to something by going back to the original meaning of the word as the common Hospice concept that makes sense on the surface could have the double meaning you mentioned.  

Does anyone know EMT procedures if they think someone is clearly dead?  I am not sure if a doctor has to call it or if they can stop life saving procedures in cases where the victim is clearly deceased (such as on a crime scene- I mean no one has to call time of death there).
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Hope is both the earliest and the most indispensable virtue inherent in the state of being alive. If life is to be sustained hope must remain, even where confidence is wounded, trust impaired."
Erik H. Erikson

Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
Twiggy69:  paramedics said when he walked into room mj was on the bed

Twiggy69:  but hours earlier security had testified that he had been moved to the floor when they called paramedics

Twiggy69:  someone doesn't know what they are talking about

Twiggy69:  paramedics said when he walked into room mj was on the bed

Twiggy69:  and that murray then grabbed him around the upper shoulders and was moving his to the floor by himself

Twiggy69:  doesn't make any sense

Twiggy69:  the judge isn't saying a word

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She says she will be posting a blog later tonight and that they have video from the hallway.
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She also says she will be there every day at court for the believers.
She says she spoke to Joe Jackson too.
Samantha Gosselin confronted her today freaking out that MJ was dead.


So now the paramedics and the bodyguards aren't in sync with one another?  Alvarez says that he helped Murray get Michael on the floor while they were on the phone with the 911 dispatch, and the paramedics claim that Michael was still on the bed when they arrived?  Which is it then?  Michael is a talented guy, but I don't think he can be lying on the bed and on the floor at the same time!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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They probualary moved him back on the bed before paramedics came.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
hospes Latin; noun
1. guest
2. host
3. strange
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So let's rephrase that statement then with one of the definitions that might fit as a replacement for hospice.

Quote
Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a STRANGE patient.

hmm a strange patient...why?
Maybe because he wasn't in need of medical aid at all!
Someone under Hospice care here in the States is someone who is no longer receiving medical attention beyond managing symptoms (no treatment is administered). The person resides at home and family, aided by special hospice personnel administer most care.  Usually, we are talking elderly patients or cancer patients who will not recover (I was not sure if all our international readers know the concept, so I thought I'd throw it out there).  So, from that perspective it makes sense, what he said.  
However- you might be on to something by going back to the original meaning of the word as the common Hospice concept that makes sense on the surface could have the double meaning you mentioned.  

Does anyone know EMT procedures if they think someone is clearly dead?  I am not sure if a doctor has to call it or if they can stop life saving procedures in cases where the victim is clearly deceased (such as on a crime scene- I mean no one has to call time of death there).
All they meant by Hospice what what they said - extremely weak. People on Hospice are terminally ill patients that are home to die. They are usually on pain medications to keep them comfortable before they pass. The set up in the house and apparently the way MJ looked was similiar to a Hospice patient.

If someone is clearly dead, the body stays on scene and the police handle it. An ME or coroner comes (depending on local protocols) and the medics leave the scene. Again, depending on protocol, the medics either pronounce the patient and give a time of death, or they presume death and call the hospital and talk to an ED MD, tell them why the patient is dead and the MD pronounces. And the patient always needs a time of death, even at a crime scene. Whether you found 95 year old grandma dead in bed for a day or a guy who just got shot to death, they still get a time of death.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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So, the paramedics could call time of death if they were convinced the person died ( as they said they were). Makes me think, the plan was to NOT have the house be the crime scene. All attention then shifted to the ambulance and UCLA- in line with any good magic trick where you distract the audience.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Hope is both the earliest and the most indispensable virtue inherent in the state of being alive. If life is to be sustained hope must remain, even where confidence is wounded, trust impaired."
Erik H. Erikson

*

Grace

Do we remember how many staff were said to have been on the site?

We know about:
Richard Senneff
Martin Blount (both testified)
(I am missing the driver of the ambulance)

and the LAFD #71 fire station team:
Jeff M.
Mark
John
Kenny
Out of this team Jeff was for sure on site as he appears to be the one leading the ambulance to back out of the yard.

Who will be called in to testify next?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
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"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
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