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Serenitys_Dream

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A little off topic here but you do realize that you can not predict the exact date a terminally ill patient will die, right. So if a real body was used in any of this, the person would have had to die before June 25, 2009 to fit into the numerology of the hoax.

Otherwise, they would have to be an assisted suicide. I don't know what the laws are regarding that in California but Michael is a very religious person and suicide is considered a sin even for the terminally ill. Aiding someone in suicide, from a religious standpoint, is murder.

So either the "death" date is by coincidence and Michael sat around waiting for this person to die, to start his death hoax and that just so happened to occur on June 25, 2009. This seems pretty selfish no matter what the reasons may be for the hoax; lacking in compassion even. And If this is the case then there is no numerology involved at all.

Another problem with this is that Michael told Kenny Ortega that the illusion was starting on June 25. Michael would not have known that his terminally ill look-a-like was going to die the next morning. The double would have already had to pass away but again that negates the numerology. There would have been no guarantee that any ill person would pass away on or before June 25, 2009 so the date could not have been chosen ahead of time.

To me that picture looks like a much younger Michael. I think it is a photoshop or a dummy in a controlled environment and no picture of the inside of the ambulance was even taken on June 25, 2009. We can't see the paramedics faces so we can not identify them either and that is probably for good reasons.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Grace

EXCELLENT bec, thank you!

Look, in the second new picture, there is a closed bag around this emergency kit in front of the left leg of the EMT.
In the first old picture, the bag is open, yet the posing of all three persons is the same.
We knew there were several shots of the picture (different shadows mirrored) but this is definite proof that nothing changed in the vehicle despite opening the (canvas?) bag for use of the kit (or "active" ambience).
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

*

~Souza~

It could be a good idea to look at that picture again. We can clearly see the 2 pics are different, because on the first we can't see the thumb of the EMT 'performing CPR' and on the second one we do see his thumb.

It was also reported that the body was bald, yet we see hair on here. Putting on the wig doesn't make sense, but even if the would have, let's assume that ridiculous story is true, did the also glued on side burns? Or did the body have no hair but only side burns? :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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MissG

Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
A little off topic here but you do realize that you can not predict the exact date a terminally ill patient will die, right. So if a real body was used in any of this, the person would have had to die before June 25, 2009 to fit into the numerology of the hoax.

Otherwise, they would have to be an assisted suicide. I don't know what the laws are regarding that in California but Michael is a very religious person and suicide is considered a sin even for the terminally ill. Aiding someone in suicide, from a religious standpoint, is murder.

So either the "death" date is by coincidence and Michael sat around waiting for this person to die, to start his death hoax and that just so happened to occur on June 25, 2009. This seems pretty selfish no matter what the reasons may be for the hoax; lacking in compassion even. And If this is the case then there is no numerology involved at all.

Another problem with this is that Michael told Kenny Ortega that the illusion was starting on June 25. Michael would not have known that his terminally ill look-a-like was going to die the next morning. The double would have already had to pass away but again that negates the numerology. There would have been no guarantee that any ill person would pass away on or before June 25, 2009 so the date could not have been chosen ahead of time.

To me that picture looks like a much younger Michael. I think it is a photoshop or a dummy in a controlled environment and no picture of the inside of the ambulance was even taken on June 25, 2009. We can't see the paramedics faces so we can not identify them either and that is probably for good reasons.

I believe that the ambu pic could be staged or shopped.
The body could ve been dead days in advance and kept untill the 25th. The room temperature was high, in June, and the room looked like a hospital.

I thought also about euthanasia.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

*

loyalfan

HOW in the world can this photo,POSSIBLY BE A WITHERED OLD MAN as was stated by the paramedic...............................AND HOW IS THAT NOT MICHAEL ANYWAYS ....................how much more do we need to be told by michael before we see.........................xxxx




and also that they did not realize it was MJ, and thought it looked like an old man?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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curls

I have huge problems with the idea of someone dying on or before 25th and the use of the corpse in this whole thing. I know that doesn't mean it may not have happened but personally I feel that's overstepping the mark of decency and respect, and MJ would have to come up with a darned good reason for doing it in order for me to feel comfortable with it.

I'm pretty sure he could've made all this happen without resorting to such macabre, gruesome plans, so, until I learn otherwise, I'm going with the (much simpler, IMO) dummy and actors scenario and wouldn't be surprised if nothing at all happened in MJ's bedroom on the morning of 25th June, other than he got up and headed out to the airport, leaving his well briefed cast to start the show. Or alternatively, he slipped on his Murray suit, got the dummy out of the cupboard and made a few phone calls to strategic players to say 'action'!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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2good2btrue

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Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
A little off topic here but you do realize that you can not predict the exact date a terminally ill patient will die, right. So if a real body was used in any of this, the person would have had to die before June 25, 2009 to fit into the numerology of the hoax.

Otherwise, they would have to be an assisted suicide. I don't know what the laws are regarding that in California but Michael is a very religious person and suicide is considered a sin even for the terminally ill. Aiding someone in suicide, from a religious standpoint, is murder.

So either the "death" date is by coincidence and Michael sat around waiting for this person to die, to start his death hoax and that just so happened to occur on June 25, 2009. This seems pretty selfish no matter what the reasons may be for the hoax; lacking in compassion even. And If this is the case then there is no numerology involved at all.

Another problem with this is that Michael told Kenny Ortega that the illusion was starting on June 25. Michael would not have known that his terminally ill look-a-like was going to die the next morning. The double would have already had to pass away but again that negates the numerology. There would have been no guarantee that any ill person would pass away on or before June 25, 2009 so the date could not have been chosen ahead of time.

To me that picture looks like a much younger Michael. I think it is a photoshop or a dummy in a controlled environment and no picture of the inside of the ambulance was even taken on June 25, 2009. We can't see the paramedics faces so we can not identify them either and that is probably for good reasons.

I believe that the ambu pic could be staged or shopped.
The body could ve been dead days in advance and kept untill the 25th. The room temperature was high, in June, and the room looked like a hospital.

I thought also about euthanasia.

Thanks Gema, and thanks Serenity.  I have a strong feeling about the look-a-alike theory that had died with his family the night before, and then tranferred to MJ home, and kept at a high room  temperature to ensure the body seemed like it had died for a few hours.......

It was Dimitriou and his family that chose to have him euthanased, not MJ.  The family could have been compensated well in advance, and sick as it sounds, its amazing what some people would do to help others at the right price.  The man was terminally ill and wanted to die......that is his right, and Murray could have been involved in that part, as witnesses say he was seen running away from Carolwood Dve that morning....
1.  Ben Evenstad's famous quotes.." That day and the other day"
2.  The body had been dead for some time......according to the paramedics..
And the paramedics are in court and can't lie about a wax dummy either....

So I feel, it is possible the it was Dimitriou....and the coroners who performed the autopsy, have also sworn on the bible in court..........

The numerology part of it is something that had to be planned in advance.

How would illuminous theo have known so much about this??????
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Grace

The said above is completely contradicting any "planned hoax" theory and the dots we have witnessed to date.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

*

jill

I believe that the ambu pic could be staged or shopped.
The body could ve been dead days in advance and kept untill the 25th. The room temperature was high, in June, and the room looked like a hospital.

I thought also about euthanasia.



This is a good point but the problem with that is if the body was kept in this warm atmosphere for few days it would deteriorate very quickly and begin to smell!  Even if a body was kept cold and them warmed up it would take a very long time to warm up the core temperature.  It just doesn't make sense.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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MissG

Quote from: "jill"
I believe that the ambu pic could be staged or shopped.
The body could ve been dead days in advance and kept untill the 25th. The room temperature was high, in June, and the room looked like a hospital.

I thought also about euthanasia.



This is a good point but the problem with that is if the body was kept in this warm atmosphere for few days it would deteriorate very quickly and begin to smell!  Even if a body was kept cold and them warmed up it would take a very long time to warm up the core temperature.  It just doesn't make sense.

The body could have been kept cold, not frozen.

Under normal temperature, rigor mortis usually occurs within 3-4 hours after clinical death.
Maximum stiffness is reached around 12-24 hours post mortem (after the death).
Depending on temperature and other conditions, rigor mortis lasts approximately 72 hours and starts fading after 12 hours.

The body was cold but the room was warm as they reported, the body was at "room temperature". Under normal conditions the body equals the room temperature after 24 hours.

If the body died hours before as they are saying, the body should have had signs of rigor mortis already...or being on the way.

The body, if died before, should have been with days in advance, after the rigor mortis fades.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

*

MissG

Also, when a person dies outside a hospital, legal procedures start right the way. A dead person is not rushed in an ambulance.

Michael was alive if he was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Quote from: "Gema"
Also, when a person dies outside a hospital, legal procedures start right the way. A dead person is not rushed in an ambulance.

Michael was alive if he was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.

I don't know how things work in California, but here in North Dakota, this is not true.  My husbands grandma died in her home a couple of years ago, and was she taken to the hospital.  Her husband has alzheimers and didn't understand what was happening. She had passed many hours prior to him calling 911.  An ambulance came and got her and brought her to the hospital even though she was dead, and had been dead for quite while (the medics estimated about 4 hours).
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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MissG

Quote from: "momof3kids"
Quote from: "Gema"
Also, when a person dies outside a hospital, legal procedures start right the way. A dead person is not rushed in an ambulance.

Michael was alive if he was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.

I don't know how things work in California, but here in North Dakota, this is not true.  My husbands grandma died in her home a couple of years ago, and was she taken to the hospital.  Her husband has alzheimers and didn't understand what was happening. She had passed many hours prior to him calling 911.  An ambulance came and got her and brought her to the hospital even though she was dead, and had been dead for quite while (the medics estimated about 4 hours).

But then a doctor would have proclaim her dead and then taken to the hospital.

No doctor proclaimed Michael dead at his home.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "momof3kids"
Quote from: "Gema"
Also, when a person dies outside a hospital, legal procedures start right the way. A dead person is not rushed in an ambulance.

Michael was alive if he was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.

I don't know how things work in California, but here in North Dakota, this is not true.  My husbands grandma died in her home a couple of years ago, and was she taken to the hospital.  Her husband has alzheimers and didn't understand what was happening. She had passed many hours prior to him calling 911.  An ambulance came and got her and brought her to the hospital even though she was dead, and had been dead for quite while (the medics estimated about 4 hours).

But then a doctor would have proclaim her dead and then taken to the hospital.

No doctor proclaimed Michael dead at his home.

Ok...I just wanted to point out that a dead peron can be rushed to the hospital in an ambulance.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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xxmjxx

Quote from: "Gema"
Also, when a person dies outside a hospital, legal procedures start right the way. A dead person is not rushed in an ambulance.

Michael was alive if he was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.
Yes i never thought of that.  :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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