Murray - savior or killer?

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Offline puremind

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Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 12, 2011, 10:34:37 PM
Ok...after i took a break, here are my thoughts and i will say it, i know i might upset you, but i will speak my mind:

What if Michael was killed and we are trapped in this game by other people? What if we are by mistake Michael's enemies now? TMZ twisted things when reporting  (like does anyone know CPR) and after all it's just another tabloid junkie which we now consider our best friend and main source. We debate every single word from TMZ, every picture, every story,but this is the same tabloid that told us Michael was dead, why disregard that? After i read Esther's blog, my tarot readings were a confirmation, all this mess, all the contradictions may have other interpretation that the one we accept. Maybe he was killed and the doctor was "hired" for that. THis is why his reaction to Kenny Ortega from that evening ( don't play doctor's role and you had to let him reherse" somthing like that). I mean, since when does a doctor say this? It was like he got annoyed by the fact that Ortgea ruined their plans. We all see how this doctor behaved from testimonies, if everything was planned do you think that there was no "back up" for him at all? Do you think they wouldn't take care of the doctor? Why all this mess when things could have been easier and more safe for the doctor if doctor =Michael's friend who helps him escape? We can' t ignore this question and let's not forget that Joe told this should go to federal. Would they ruin Michael's plan pushing everything with no sense? Don't forget about La Toya who said that Michael was killed. I know La Toya lied before but we also know that her relationship with her brother got fixed and now she is more mature, she learnt from her mistakes and let's not forget she was by her side at his arm in 2005 just like she is now. Why do we disregard everything that the Jacksons tell us and choose to look other way around? I am not sure , no one from us can be, that Michael was killed , but WHAT IF? You got to admit, it's not impossible. And this would explain all this mess with propofol and everything , why would the dr give propofol for sleep? We always answer, because he didn't it's all a big lie and Michael is alive. But why do we say this? Because of some clues that we dont even know where they come from. Maybe from those who killed him. And their purpose has been accomplished. Look, we take Murray's side now. What if we hired ourselves as  the devil's advocate now and we don't eeven know that? Time will pass, Murray will be convicted only to 4 years, we will wait for Michael to return in glory and tell us everything was a movie , this will not happen probably and we will say ok..yes, of course, after these 4 years so we will have to wait and 4 years will pass and then we will wait for him more and then probably we will say ok..maybe the plan didn't work or maybe he just wants to live peacefully well..that's it...This trial is for me very real ( i know you believe in numerology, i believe in tarot though, you may laugh but so could i with numerology so we're even) and my cards also tell me what i've read in Esther blog about that person's confession (who lived around Michael in the last period if his life, go read please and see how he was cheated and how they played with Michael). His condition was NOT ok at all, he was not strong enough to do the concerts, he was trapped and lied by evil entertainment system and  i'm so afraid we are helping them...
I know there was no body seen, that made me a believer in the first place but then what do we know, maybe he used to tell the family when it happens..pls don't let fans see me like that. Or if it was someone else in his place, a dead body, why not using make up and things done.
Michael was trapped with these last contract and wasn't able to make it. And by doctor's reaction ( and i don't think Kenny lied, i even think he knew more but took the easy way) i see that they behaved like animals and drugged him till dead just to make him be on stage and collect all the money. Everything...everything for the money.
Ths is why Murray's concern was...go and take all the evidence...they must not find everything.
If it was planned, why didn't they do this before ( if this was planed for so long as you say)? Why not creating first a clean house with all evidence removed and why after it happens send people to cover and remove evidence?
See..there are a lot of things that you might not want to see because you believe and so do i, i want more than anything to be a hoax. But there are a lot of details that match perfectly in a crime too. Not only in a hoax. And why would Michael make it look like a murder and drag with him a lot of people and instituitions anyway. This would be against his plan to return after all. And why would Michael fake his death and return? Who assured us that he was dead in the first place? And then who assured us that he would come back if he is alive? Before clues and signs who may come from the mainpulative evil itself (some people + Inc.) we have a funeral, a family attending to that funeral, legal papers and a death certificate with Michael's name on it, an official trial, people's testimonies under oath and a possible doctor convicted soon. Sure you will say everything is a stage, but i doubt the court is because it's unethical to have activities that interfere with your profession so this is not Hollywood for sure. And if the trial is real and Michael is alive (God help) then Justice will be done only by revealing that all the documents have been faked so that means Michael would be proven to corrupt everything from the hospital all Coroner and LAPD and everything. I read that faking your death is a crime if it leads to other crimes, so Michael can not abuse by the use of justice while in hiding and his family and friends are involved, he wouldn't do this , he wouldn't drag everyone. Or if so, how could he return after all this? Why not keeping Katherine out of it? Michael is not heartless. You say no one can say if Michael wouldnt do this or that and i agree. But then how do you know him so well that he would return to save the world or that he faked his death. How come you are so sure about that? And it makes more sense that Michael wouldn't do this to Katherine, if we are allowed to say what would Michael do or wouldn't do.
So, maybe my ideas were so mixed here , sorry, i took a break and tried to see everything as realistic as i could.
And for the moment my opinon is that Michael was killed with the help of the doctor who administrated every drug possible so he could perform and not miss the shows that were going to bring them money. This doctor may have been hired in papers by Michael but he was working for someone else. This is why we keep asking and we're happy and excited that nothing add us in this trial and that is all nonsense. Yes it is, because it doesn't fit in our believe. If we take the possibility that Murray wasn't at his best interest for Michael you will see how clear it gets and how everything makes sense. And i'm afraid that we look at Michael's murderer as Michael's savior just because we were manipulated and taken advantage. Our love for Michael is so strong that we might be vulnerable. It's enough for a bird to have a facebook page that we start debating. We see connections is every movie and we start debating. Every little clue who might ot not be a sent clue is debated and thrills us just because it's our drug of hope. Don't forget they might be sent by the same people from entertainemtn industry who certainly know how to entertain us in a direction or another, This is whta they do, this is how they got rich. I mean really rich.
And when we face the cruel reality and a lot of facts that really don't support the hoax in any way (quite contrary) we disregard them and keep hoping.
What do you honeslty think? Beside, this was all Michael's plan or well..he is trying to make this hoax so realistic, do we have another answer?
I'm afraid not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline nefari

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 12, 2011, 11:39:52 PM
I'll go even one further. What if Michael was in so much pain from lupus and his other issues, which we may not know all of, that Murray was hired to kill Michael but as an act of mercy and then at the last minute he had second thoughts and started yelling about "Does anyone know CPR etc...." because if the intent was to kill Michael why would anyone need to know CPR.
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Offline puremind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 12, 2011, 11:56:48 PM
Nefari, you are not further at all. As long as we discuss a hoax we can discuss anything.
I just want to say in reply to your post, that i don't believe Murray tried to kill Michael by intention, but because of the drugs he gave him on and on and on just to be on stage , because Michael's health was very very poor. So, Murray instead of helping him other ways and instead of protecting him to be out from the stage and concerts and everything, simply listened to those who had the interest to bring Michael on stage for theose 50 concerts he's been cheated with. This is why he was angry with Ortega who cared about his health more than rehersals and send him home. This is why his answer: don't play doctor role, you should have let him reherse because he could DO it. Like Michael's opinion didn't even matter, right?
"According to Detective Orlando Martinez based on an interview with Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael will cancel his comeback concerts unless he was given drugs. Michael Jackson threatened to cancel his London comeback concerts unless he was given drugs to help him sleep on the day of his death, a court has heard."
And Murray instead of taking care of his health and let the BOSS (the Boss was sadly NOT Michael) know he could not make it, he just pushed the limit until he killed him. This is why Murray 's worry was to cover things before everyone would find out more about what was in fact going on there with drugs, injections and so many other things. Murray worked for the BOSS who constantly advised Murray to do anything so Michael could be on stage. Instead of treating him and help him by refusing to supply anymore drugs , he just fed him more and more drugs to send him on stage. They are effective for the moment but in a long run, kills the pateint. But this didn;t matter as they wanted them AT THAT TIME ON THE STAGE. Who cared about Michael, after? And now we have that insider who will talk to the Jacksons first and see if he is allowed to talk about the real condition of Michael's health...
And also do read " WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO MICHAEL JACKSON THE KING OF POP: THE EVIL SIDE OF THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY  – ( Excerpts) By Leonard Rowe : legendary concert promoter" from http://estherforgod.wordpress.com/2011/ ... reveals-1/
If we seek our truth we may as well close our eyes.
If we seek Michael's Truth we must take everything in account not just clues sent from anonymus, especially when we have facts and confessions from people who stood by his side in his latest public life.
God help us find the truth, Michael's truth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline bec

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 12:34:19 AM
Liberian Girl.

The S on Pain.

The numerology.

It's ok to believe.
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Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 12:35:55 AM
I understand what you are saying, and believe me at the beginning I felt the same way. Remember Michael is a genius. We do not know why he faked his death, we can speculate all we want, and we did come with good investigations and reasons. Puremind you said you believe in Tarot cards, well I believe in Crystal Pendulum.  My crystal pendulum tells me that Michael is alive. Since day one I have asked the same questions and it still tells me that Michael is alive.  :mrgreen:

Now, you say why would he do this to Katherine. Katherine is aware of Michael's plan. I am a mother, if one of my sons comes and tell me that he is in some sort of danger, or he is not feeling well to do the concerts, or what ever the problem may be I will be behind him 1000%. He is my son, any mother would protect her son. Katherine is protecting Michael, she is going with the flow. It is not easy for a mother, to do so, but she is doing it.

Also look at all the slip ups, Jermaine states the Michael was long gone before he reached the airport. Than he repharsed it hospital.. Come on give me a break. Latoya signing the death certificate. Really?? How?? Is she a doctor??  Listen I have a doctor friend, he stated that the only people who have authority to sign a death certificates are DOCTORS. Is Latoya a doctor? I don't think so, the last time I checked she wasn't.

Michael Crypt is not yet engraved. What are they waiting for, when donkey flys? My childhood friend passed away 2 yrs ago and her musoleum was engraved the same day. I will tell you why, because Michael is not in that crypt he is not dead. Why would Akon and Reilley say that he is alive? Put it this way nothing  makes sense into this murder hoax.

I can go on and on like the pink rabbit (duracell batteries) but I will stop.  I think I gave you the most important pointers for you to read and remember be positive and keep the faith in God, everything will follow.
God bless..
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 12:38:59 AM by all4loveandbelieve »


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Offline puremind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 12:38:05 AM
And just to add, Michael has always been on the thin side.But it cannot be denied that he was quite thin in his latest public life. So this could be another proof for his health condition, hwas 12-20 pound heavier in April than he was in June... And now i really believe that he was spoon fed as they used to say, so yes, If he could not feed himself, how could he be expected to do these shows unless providing him drugs courtesy of Murray...
:(
@bec, it's all right to believe but i seek for the truth, sorry, we are not on the same side here.
@all4loveandbelieve, i know i don't have all the answers, but you don't have them either to my questions. so , at the moment all i can do is to have an open mind and NOT disregard other things just because they don't comfort my heart.:(
Michael, be alive!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 12:46:28 AM by puremind »
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Offline bec

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 12:45:24 AM
Quote from: "puremind"
A
@bec, it's all right to believe but i seek for the truth, sorry, we are not on the same side here.

Yeah me too, I just got there first. I'll save you a seat.
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Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 12:48:25 AM
Quote from: "puremind"
And just to add, Michael has always been on the thin side.But it cannot be denied that he was quite thin in his latest public life. So this could be another proof for his health condition, hwas 12-20 pound heavier in April than he was in June... And now i really believe that he was spoon fed as they used to say, so yes, If he could not feed himself, how could he be expected to do these shows unless providing him drugs courtesy of Murray...
:(
@bec, it's all right to believe but i seek for the truth, sorry, we are not on the same side here.
@all4loveandbelieve, i know i don't have all the answers, but you don't have them either to my questions. so , at the moment all i can do is to have an open mind and NOT disregard other things just because they don't comfort my heart.:(
Michael, be alive!
@ puremind, I never said I had the answers.Unfortunetaly I do not have the answers, I wish I did believe me, you guys would have been the first to know.  At least I made you aware of a few pointers that can make you get back your faith. Faith is the most important thing, if you don't have it, you have nothing.
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Offline puremind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 01:00:23 AM
Yes, of course, i know you only tried to balance things and it is ok because it doesn't happen too much around.
And when we stop searching and doubting like we already know everything for a fact, we may find ourselves under our own satisfying trap: the belief that we are right.
Only time will show us if we were right or not, BUT ONLY IF  he'll return .
If he will never return we may as well say that he changed his mind... And others will say, yes...he was killed or whatever..died...
There is a pretty big chance that we may never find out.
And some will wait for him all their life, like it happened with Elvis, some will be angry because 4 years is the price paid for Michael's life and some of us will eventually accept that he is not longer with us. With or without his intention.
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Offline ladymjc

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 01:42:48 AM
I absolutely don't think it is impossible for this to be real. Just as I don't think it is impossible for it to be fake. I think that you are very correct when you say that the media was Michael's enemy.  But you also have to remember that the media and his enemies also believe him to be dead.  I really don't think they would waste their time on trying to make people believe he is alive when they won't get any money off it. In fact, they are making more money off the fact that he is "dead". All that speculation of him being alive is purely done by beLIEvers on the internet. Michael Jackson and Dr. Murray first met in 2006. There is still a big controversy over whether or not it was AEG or Michael that hired him.  Murray filed a lawsuit against AEG wanting $300,000 for the months he took care of MJ. If he was indeed hired by AEG to kill Michael I don't think he would put out a public statement saying how much he cared for him or Katherine. Or maybe he agreed to kill him for that money then decided not to, MJ told him about his plan and promised him bigger money to help him pull it off. Another reason I don't think this is real is because they are only charging him with involuntary manslaughter with a MAX sentence of 4 years. If you piece everything together that right there should make you speculate.  He is a CARDIOLOGIST, a heart doctor. He was ordering large amounts of an anesthetic used for surgery and administering it in a private home (of Michael Jackson) without the proper equipment. He had no medical charts or records of anything he had given him. He gave him CPR on the bed with one hand and waited almost 30 minutes before having someone else call the police.  If anyone else in the world did that, it would be first degree murder. When MJ was accused of child molestation they sent 70 officers to raid his home!  That was more than any serial killer or any wanted person in the history of our judicial system!  Even Michael himself said that people would do anything for money.  Murray was and is a very desperate man and if he was asked to go through a trial and sit in jail for 4 years for 3 million bucks I wouldn't blink an ash in doubt that he would do it. Hell, I might even consider it. Michael is estimated to have earned over 500 million dollars in his career. I don't think he was as broke as the media portrayed him to be. I do not believe whatsoever that Michael was as sick as they were saying he was either. If you watch This Is It and watch him jumping around, getting on his back and shaking his legs in the air, dancing like he always dances, and putting one leg on the ground, and back up again you can tell he is very athletic and in shape. I workout everyday and I don't think I could do some of the moves he did.  And those were the last days of a sick man's life?  I think he was very strong, he's known that the entertainment industry is corrupt for a very long time and he has sang about it almost his whole life.  He wouldn't let them lie to him, he's much smarter than that. In the United States, if you believe that your life is in danger than hoaxing your death is NOT illegal. If he told Katherine and everyone in his family that he thought someone was going to kill him, I'm pretty sure they are more than happy to help him out in a hoax rather then let him die. He's not dragging them around with it. He hasn't just fled and left everyone to believe he is really dead. If you think about the Jackson family while the kids were growing up, Joe used to beat them if they didn't get the dance moves right, he pressured them to rehearse every night. Katherine stood by the whole time and watched. They wanted the fame, they wanted the money. What makes it any different now except they are adults and not children to be used?  And yes, I will say it is a stage. It isn't unethical to have activities that interfere with your profession if you are apart of or directing a movie and yes, they are in Hollywood. If Michael's intentions of hoaxing his death are to bring down the evil force behind everything that is going wrong with the world and expose it to the masses, I don't think a coroner losing his job or some doctors at the hospital being tried for perjury is going to make the headlines. The chief of LA police already resigned after his part. The doctor's at the hospital didn't even sign anything so they really have nothing to worry about. Just like in every movie we see it can be seen as real. If they are in the court room and they are acting out their parts and realize the purpose in which they are doing it, and re-inacting a situation that could have been a possibility the impact can be very emotional. Crying is contagious. Plus, just to think that they are having to resort to those means because the real situation is much more serious then we could ever dream of is in itself a nightmare. No body said that a hoax is just fun and games. It is real life. I'm sure it is very hard on everyone, but it's all for love. Michael loves his family and his fans, his family and his fans love him. So all in all I think that Michael is in good standing with his family, I think he has people involved who truly care about his well being and what he is going to do. I think that it is way beyond our knowledge of what has been going on in entertainment industry for 50 plus years and that is why it's so hard to understand. For so many years he endured the abuse of these people and their allegations and their insulting his integrity through the media that he is going to use that against them. I think that he has been documenting this for a long time. He is now at the stage where he is showing the world that in the American justice system, nobody pays attention to the details, they are just money hungry to cover the details without looking into them. They are willing to let a man obviously guilty of premeditated murder get off in 4 years or less no matter who the person is that was killed. He's going to expose the fact that the entire world is ran by a royal family that is in control. They are racist and that is why more than half of the poverty stricken nations on this planet are minority and over half of those minorities are black. They have control over what we watch on television, they can track where we spend our money with credit cards, where we are located with GPS, any and all conversations we have with our telephones, what we listen to on the radio and what CD's we buy.  They have control over our weapons, the people in our governments, and they are brainwashing everyone to believe that what you read and what you see is real. Michael Jackson is the most highly recognizable person on the planet that stood up against them.  I can't say that I know how or when but I can see why he is doing it. When he comes back, people will listen and the fact that he is doing this now won't even be a factor.  I see an army of people ready for battle at his return.  He will have a very well documented case and I truly believe it is then, when people are in most panic of the world ending, that he will finally make the change he tried so hard to do.

Side Note: I've been reading tarot cards for 15 years. Many of the meanings attributed to the Tarot cards derive from numerology. In the West, numerology goes back to the philosophy of the Greek thinker Pythagoras who believed that reality can ultimately be expressed in numerical terms. We have already seen the importance of the number four in the four suits of the Tarot which are derived from the four elements of classic Greek philosophy. The fact that there are 10 pip cards is related to the fact that humans have 10 fingers and therefore use the decimal number system. Odd numbers are usually regarded as forceful, yang, or "masculine" and even numbers as stabilizing, yin, or "feminine".  The very number of cards in a Tarot deck reflects this numerological scheme. The 10 pip cards represent a series of everyday feelings, events, and situations associated with each of the 4 suits. The four court cards represent the four members of the prototypical family: father/king, mother/queen, son/knight, daughter/page. Hence each suit consists of 14 cards (10 pips plus 4 court cards).
Mundane and family matters are thus represented by the 10 pips and 4 court cards of the four suits. This makes a total of 4 x 14 = 56 Minor Arcana cards.
The remaining 22 cards of the deck are the Major Arcana (major secrets) cards. These have a different numerological basis. Representing timeless spiritual truths, these cards are based on the numbers 3 and 7. The Fool, numbered 0, stands at the center of a triangle (3 sides), and each side of the triangle consists of 7 cards (connected with 7 days of the week that are named for the 7 visible planets). The Fool (numbered 0) plus the 21 lessons the Fool must learn (the other 21 Trumps) make up the total of 22 Trump cards. In numerology, 22 can be broken down into 2 + 2 = 4, the number of manifestation in the "real" world. Furthermore, 21 (the number of spiritual lessons awaiting the Fool) is the sum of the first 6 digits, that is, 21 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6, a fact that was not lost on the original creators of the Tarot deck. By playing with these numerical relationships and their connections to the cards of the Tarot deck, one can come to a deeper understanding of the origin, structure, and meaning of the cards.
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Offline For All Time

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 02:10:52 AM
Puremind, all the things that you explained are also running thru my mind.What if Michael was really killed, what if all this is just our imagination, what if someone wants us to believe he is alive when he's not ?  :( This would be heartbreaking for me , it really hurts now but to find out he is gone ...i think it's gonna be unbearable.I love this man so much and to think he had such a tragic death, it's killing  me inside . I pray this is not true and he's alive, but like so many of us I'm starting to lose my faith and it's so scary .
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Offline puremind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 02:23:01 AM
ladymjc, thank you for your insightful post. i enjoyed reading it.
i would like to make a correction, i might have been missunderstood.
Murray didn't kill Michael on purpose , he killed him because he chose to feed him drugs to be able to be on stage and do the 50 shows instead of taking care of him. And Murray asking AEG for money is logical in this situation, yes , Murray worked for AEG instead of Michael (sarcasm a little). He didn't care about his patient, he only did what he was ordered to do, to drug Michael in whatever way just to male him able to be there on stage and produce money for the eagles. Murray pushed the limit and Michael's heart couldn't resist. Why do you think Ortega wanted to stress the fact that Murray was DISTURBED by the fact that MJ was sent home by Ortega instead of reherse? Any doctor would have thanked Ortega for not pushing his patient and taking care of his well being.
And Tarot, just like numerology, like crystal, like channeling and everything else may help but before that we have facts that happened for real which we can't dismiss no longer. Why wouldnt you believe a person who stood by his side and told the danger he was in and the way he was cheated by those evils? Why do you see Michael as God and can't accept the POSSIBILITY that he mgiht have been trapped by those monsters who would do anything for the money? It's not hard to be trapped when your heart has faith in someone very close to you and you can't say that Michael is God. Even Jesus was trapped, right? So why should we dismiss this possibility everytime saying Michael wasa genius, Michael was much smarter than that. Yes, he was , but so was Jesus.

@For All Time, I'm with you and this is why i am afraid, too. And this is something i have denied for a long time but now i 've decided to paint the veil with Michael's truth. Not mine.
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Offline bec

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 02:42:00 AM
Wait a minute.

puremind
     
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Did you just decide to join a death hoax board to say you are a new non-believer?

That seems sort of off.
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Offline puremind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 02:46:10 AM
Bec, am i not allowed to talk if i don't know the truth yet?
I am sorry if i offended your belief with my opinion, my heart was not there.
But you really have to have understanding for those who are still looking for truth. You say you know it already, well, i envy you. I don't. And i hope me and everyone who is still searching for it, will eventually find Michael's truth. If this is not allowed on this forum, i can leave. No problem.
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Offline bec

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 02:59:52 AM
You joined a death hoax board to say you suddenly don't believe?

Oh I'm so calling B.S. on this.

Usually people join forums after lurking for awhile because they become more interested in the subject, not less, because otherwise they're called trolls, because joining a board to repetitively post your views against the subject interest of the site, is seen as inflammatory posting, with intent to disrupt.

I don't go to the dog fancy board and say: "I don't like dogs, I don't think they don't make good pets, cats are much better and what's wrong? why can't I say what I want? If I don't agree I can't post? Freedom of speech!" They'd IP ban me in a hot second and not think twice and nor would anyone else.

But for some reason the hoax community has a problem growing a set and feeling justified in getting rid of the haters*cough*nonbelievers*cough*. I don't know why. No one likes having their negative, 'you're all delusional you poor pathetic sops' rhetoric on the board, and yet so few feel confident to say take a hike.

So Puremind, if you'll excuse me, I spend all day surrounded by non-believers such as yourself. When I come home, I like to relax and chat with like minded individuals. That's why I sought out and joined a Death Hoax board, instead of a fan site. So, as far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to say anything you want, I just fail to see the attraction for you to continue to put it here unless of course you like the drama it creates. This answer you may never reveal, but time will tell either way, won't it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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RunFaYaLife

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 03:05:11 AM
Quote
If we seek our truth we may as well close our eyes.
If we seek Michael's Truth we must take everything in account not just clues sent from anonymus, especially when we have facts and confessions from people who stood by his side in his latest public life.
God help us find the truth, Michael's truth.

At least you are looking at this thing from all angles IMO.
Heck who wants to believe that Michael is actually dead?

However, I have vacillated back and forth over this for over a year.

I remember reading where he had told Paris "I may not be here for father's day
don't be mad at me."

That one led me into a world of what did THAT mean!?!

However, my first reaction when I saw the 02 concert annoucement on TV ...
was "that is NOT Michael Jackson!"

But I think I was warned something seriously up with him...but it was an odd  personal happening that even I have trouble digesting...so who knows?
The pros and cons have consumed me....I think that is why I ended up giving in
and joining this board.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LovelyLurker

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 03:10:44 AM
@ bec, I hear ya there. seems to be a lot of this lately and is it my imagination that they are all the same person? Or a few of the same people? Hmmmmmm

And @ puremind and other none believers, I just sometime wonder why those who think he is really gone have so many problems allowing those of us who think he is NOT gone, to have our little site and just do what we need to.

I for one do not really go on any tribute or memorial site for MJ and then tell them all that I am a believer, I just don;t go there.....I allow them to do thier little thing so why can we not be allowed to do our little thing?   Just my opinion :)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 03:14:11 AM by LovelyLurker »
L.O.V.E - Love Overcomes Virtualy Everything

Offline puremind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 03:12:40 AM
Ok, Bec, then i am sorry, i didn't want to cause any drama. And being a forum member does not make one a knower.
I just posted my arguments and supported my opinions like everyone does on a forum.
I not even once called you dellusional, this is something you say to manipulate the members of this forum against me. And i don't understand why am i a troll? This thread was supposed to balance the possibilities and this is how a debate on a forum works in the first place.
On the other hand, it's clear to me now that you must support this hoax idea as much as possible to keep this forum alive.
And because my intention was to seek for truth not to feed people with hope after a long stressful day at work,  i will follow your advise and i will leave, it's ok.

I hope truth itself will prevail and the truth will be the one we are all hoping for.

Michael... be alive!

Goodbye.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 03:24:02 AM by puremind »
I was a believer until i\'ve decided to seek the truth.

Offline curls

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 03:19:04 AM
Puremind, please keep talking! You absolutely should feel free to raise your doubts and questions here. If I had more time I'd respond to some of your comments on this thread - maybe later if my day goes well!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline curls

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 03:53:50 AM
Bec and lovelylurker - don't forget this is an 'investigators' site. Where else are people to go who still have doubts or who have maybe only just begun to entertain the idea of a hoax?  The last couple of weeks have been emotional for many, have put doubts in the minds of many and firmed up the beliefs of others. IMO we need to welcome new posters who are maybe only just beginning to get their heads around the idea that MJ is alive, and support those that are having doubts. We shouldn't feel threatened by their doubts and questions if we are confident of our own opinions. I've been reminded, reading puremind's posts, of the months of very painful thought processing that I experienced over the past year. I guess most of us have been there.

Other's doubts help me firm up my own opinions and I welcome that. And we always have the option of not reading threads we are not comfortable with.

Now I really must get to work! Have a nice day. xx
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LovelyLurker

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 03:58:43 AM
@ curls.... no worries I recieved a nice pm from puremind and stated your exact facts to him/her.

There have been many strange people on the forum lately so I am suspicious sometimes. I encouraged puremind to keep posting as people so want to see the messages so not to worry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
L.O.V.E - Love Overcomes Virtualy Everything

Offline Ijustcantstoplovingu

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 07:35:27 AM
Quote from: "bec"
You joined a death hoax board to say you suddenly don't believe?

Oh I'm so calling B.S. on this.

Usually people join forums after lurking for awhile because they become more interested in the subject, not less, because otherwise they're called trolls, because joining a board to repetitively post your views against the subject interest of the site, is seen as inflammatory posting, with intent to disrupt.

I don't go to the dog fancy board and say: "I don't like dogs, I don't think they don't make good pets, cats are much better and what's wrong? why can't I say what I want? If I don't agree I can't post? Freedom of speech!" They'd IP ban me in a hot second and not think twice and nor would anyone else.

But for some reason the hoax community has a problem growing a set and feeling justified in getting rid of the haters*cough*nonbelievers*cough*. I don't know why. No one likes having their negative, 'you're all delusional you poor pathetic sops' rhetoric on the board, and yet so few feel confident to say take a hike.

So Puremind, if you'll excuse me, I spend all day surrounded by non-believers such as yourself. When I come home, Ihow like to relax and chat with like minded individuals. That's why I sought out and joined a Death Hoax board, instead of a fan site. So, as far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to say anything you want, I just fail to see the attraction for you to continue to put it here unless of course you like the drama it creates. This answer you may never reveal, but time will tell either way, won't it.


"I don't like dogs, I don't think they don't make good pets, cats are much better    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Oh Becs I so like your logic  ...   this made me laugh  :lol:   I  show dogs and can imagine the reaction this comment would cause on a dog board  :lol:


I agree with your comments to.  

Puremind you said you took a break but you have only been a member for a few days :?

I do wonder why you chose to join us though, you are of course welcome to be here to discuss the possible hoax death of Michael.

Peace
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ladymjc

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 09:57:48 AM
Quote from: "puremind"
ladymjc, thank you for your insightful post. i enjoyed reading it.
i would like to make a correction, i might have been missunderstood.
Murray didn't kill Michael on purpose , he killed him because he chose to feed him drugs to be able to be on stage and do the 50 shows instead of taking care of him. And Murray asking AEG for money is logical in this situation, yes , Murray worked for AEG instead of Michael (sarcasm a little). He didn't care about his patient, he only did what he was ordered to do, to drug Michael in whatever way just to male him able to be there on stage and produce money for the eagles. Murray pushed the limit and Michael's heart couldn't resist. Why do you think Ortega wanted to stress the fact that Murray was DISTURBED by the fact that MJ was sent home by Ortega instead of reherse? Any doctor would have thanked Ortega for not pushing his patient and taking care of his well being.
And Tarot, just like numerology, like crystal, like channeling and everything else may help but before that we have facts that happened for real which we can't dismiss no longer. Why wouldnt you believe a person who stood by his side and told the danger he was in and the way he was cheated by those evils? Why do you see Michael as God and can't accept the POSSIBILITY that he mgiht have been trapped by those monsters who would do anything for the money? It's not hard to be trapped when your heart has faith in someone very close to you and you can't say that Michael is God. Even Jesus was trapped, right? So why should we dismiss this possibility everytime saying Michael wasa genius, Michael was much smarter than that. Yes, he was , but so was Jesus.

@For All Time, I'm with you and this is why i am afraid, too. And this is something i have denied for a long time but now i 've decided to paint the veil with Michael's truth. Not mine.

I really do appreciate your objective opinions. Reading the thoughts of an opposing argument actually fuels my beliefs even more because I am confident in what I believe in and don’t waiver. Please don’t leave. I enjoy talking with you.
You did confuse me a little bit though. You said Murray DIDN”T kill him on purpose, but he CHOSE to feed him drugs to perform because he didn’t care about his patient so he could produce money for the “eagles”, but he pushed the limit and was disturbed that he was sent home even though a good doctor would have thanked Ortega for his concern.  So even in the fact that you think Michael is dead you are still contradicting yourself.  IMO any doctor would know that intoxicating an already sick man with a cocktail of meds each night is not going to enable his performance but hinder his abilities.   Especially if Murray knew that his heart couldn’t resist it, being a HEART doctor and all he should have known his patient’s condition if he was wanting him to be healthy enough to perform 50 concerts so he could make that dough right?  You must really understand the fact where I am coming from when I say that Murray must be found guilty for Michael to be able to show the world how corrupt it is. It would only make sense that the person who stands by his side (I think is co-director or producer of this documentary he is making), would be the first one to state an unhealthy Michael to give us the impression that Murray is at fault.  I never said that I see Michael as God. (That tells me you read my posts! Thank you it means a lot)  I don’t want to get into my spiritual beliefs here, but for the sake of answering your question, no Jesus was not trapped. He was beaten and abused and betrayed by people who did not want to believe what he was saying, but he did not give up. NOT ONCE in the gospels does it say that he had any doubts of who he was or what his mission was. He “died” for a purpose, he knew it was to happen and was blessed by God.  The reason I brought up the tarot is because in your post you said that a lot of your doubts were coming from this, but you didn’t believe the numerology that is “solid evidence” (read that from another person and I completely agree)  I honestly don’t think you are using any facts within the crime to prove how you think it is not a hoax. You are only providing your fears and doubts brought to you from the exact people that Michael is trying to expose. It is a perfect example of everything he was telling us.  
I can accept any possibility that is thrown in my direction, but I guarantee you I keep the faith.  My faith. I will not let these people manipulate me into thinking otherwise.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 13, 2011, 10:45:47 AM
i wonder if that accusations from the past (think it was history tour) that michael has had this done before will enter into play here?  it is weird to me that family only seems to notice that he should have been monitered and not seem to taken abacke that he would go to that extreme in the first place. i wonder if that previous docter will be brought into the picture?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline dominque

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Re: Murray - savior or killer?

  • on: January 16, 2011, 02:42:13 AM
Pure Mind I agree with you totally, I really do not have much to say, However when one of Murray girlfriend testified that she heard coughing and mumbling, I automatically assumed it was MJ and the Murray was pouring Propofol down MJ's mouth that why it is so much propofol found in MJ's stomach. MJ did not commit suicide.

Also kenny ortega testimony about MUrray and Randy Phillips and the rest being upset that Kenny let MJ go home early from rehearsal did it for me also. MJ clearly was murdered and I hope that people here on this board look at everything with open eyes and not closed minds.

I wished MJ did fake his death however we need to be looking at all avenues.
You are so right on board with what you posted.
I have alot thoughts also, however I do not post because I do not have time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »