Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

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Offline MJ_Facts

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Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 07:42:01 AM
Question:

How can you identify someone who looks old, ill and very pale --- like a "hospice patient" (that's what the paramedics said during the hearing) at the same time identifying this person (UCLA) by his driver's license which is from the 80's?????  :shock:

Can someone pls explain?
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Offline loyalfan

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 08:54:42 AM
good question !
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Offline angelshadow

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 10:44:45 AM
Nevertheless, this is an absolute nonsense...  :?
Thus this cannot be........Really very much very good question!
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Offline michaelsupporter

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 11:53:30 AM
Quote from: "MJ_Facts"
Question:

How can you identify someone who looks old, ill and very pale --- like a "hospice patient" (that's what the paramedics said during the hearing) at the same time identifying this person (UCLA) by his driver's license which is from the 80's?????  :shock:

Can someone pls explain?

I think we should first question why a DL from the 80's is being used for comparison purposes to begin with. Where I live DL's are updated every 4 years---as people's looks and weight tend to change . I suspect that CA is no different in that regard.
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Offline lynnandsofee

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 05:53:58 PM
We have been told that Michael was naked, we were told he had black pajama bottoms on. So where the hell was the drivers license?  Do you know anyone who keeps their drivers lic. in their pajama pocket?  And no one there, in an extreme emergency, would stop to look for Michael's drivers lic..    Get real people ??????????????????????
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Offline reading_on

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 06:16:54 PM
Quote from: "lynnandsofee"
We have been told that Michael was naked, we were told he had black pajama bottoms on. So where the hell was the drivers license?  Do you know anyone who keeps their drivers lic. in their pajama pocket?  And no one there, in an extreme emergency, would stop to look for Michael's drivers lic..    Get real people ??????????????????????


  Try filling in some of the blanks instead of just thinking they are going to put every single detail down on paper.  Whether it is lie or not, some things are just expected to be common sense. Consider a report from a nurse helping a patient to go the bathroom. The report would probably say "assisted patient to (insert word here)" but would not say "took down pants, "took down underwear".. doesn't that sound like too many details? In fact, if they were giving a lot more details I would be more inclined to think they would be overdoing it.
Remember I am not contradicting you at all, just a trick when investigating is to fill in the blanks to see if it is plausible. Try to start with the DL in the coroner's hand and work backward in your mind.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline reading_on

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 06:17:41 PM
Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
Quote from: "MJ_Facts"
Question:

How can you identify someone who looks old, ill and very pale --- like a "hospice patient" (that's what the paramedics said during the hearing) at the same time identifying this person (UCLA) by his driver's license which is from the 80's?????  :shock:

Can someone pls explain?

I think we should first question why a DL from the 80's is being used for comparison purposes to begin with. Where I live DL's are updated every 4 years---as people's looks and weight tend to change . I suspect that CA is no different in that regard.

How do we know that it was from the 80's?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline lynnandsofee

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: "reading_on"
Quote from: "lynnandsofee"
We have been told that Michael was naked, we were told he had black pajama bottoms on. So where the hell was the drivers license?  Do you know anyone who keeps their drivers lic. in their pajama pocket?  And no one there, in an extreme emergency, would stop to look for Michael's drivers lic..    Get real people ??????????????????????


  Try filling in some of the blanks instead of just thinking they are going to put every single detail down on paper.  Whether it is lie or not, some things are just expected to be common sense. Consider a report from a nurse helping a patient to go the bathroom. The report would probably say "assisted patient to (insert word here)" but would not say "took down pants, "took down underwear".. doesn't that sound like too many details? In fact, if they were giving a lot more details I would be more inclined to think they would be overdoing it.
Remember I am not contradicting you at all, just a trick when investigating is to fill in the blanks to see if it is plausible. Try to start with the DL in the coroner's hand and work backward in your mind.
I was taken to the hospital twice in my life for heart attacks, and not once did anyone ask for my drivers license.  They were to busy trying to save my life.  I still think the drivers lic. theory is BS, of course we again will never know.  I'm just using my common sense.
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Offline michaelsupporter

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 07:48:02 PM
Quote from: "lynnandsofee"
Quote from: "reading_on"
Quote from: "lynnandsofee"
We have been told that Michael was naked, we were told he had black pajama bottoms on. So where the hell was the drivers license?  Do you know anyone who keeps their drivers lic. in their pajama pocket?  And no one there, in an extreme emergency, would stop to look for Michael's drivers lic..    Get real people ??????????????????????


  Try filling in some of the blanks instead of just thinking they are going to put every single detail down on paper.  Whether it is lie or not, some things are just expected to be common sense. Consider a report from a nurse helping a patient to go the bathroom. The report would probably say "assisted patient to (insert word here)" but would not say "took down pants, "took down underwear".. doesn't that sound like too many details? In fact, if they were giving a lot more details I would be more inclined to think they would be overdoing it.
Remember I am not contradicting you at all, just a trick when investigating is to fill in the blanks to see if it is plausible. Try to start with the DL in the coroner's hand and work backward in your mind.
I was taken to the hospital twice in my life for heart attacks, and not once did anyone ask for my drivers license.  They were to busy trying to save my life.  I still think the drivers lic. theory is BS, of course we again will never know.  I'm just using my common sense.

Exactly!
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Offline mjthelegendlives

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 14, 2011, 09:15:50 PM
They had to identify the dead body,  not the person they were trying to save, whoever that was.  If the person dies unexpectedly , then he/she is taken to the coroners office and has to be identified; they have to know who this person is.  They did this by using a driver's license.  Driver's license are usually updated every 4 to 6 years.  We don't know if MJ's DL was up-to-date, well at least I dont know.  IMO, and with all the theories floating around, the best move would have been a DNA test...
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Offline Datroot

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 15, 2011, 07:02:44 AM
I thought about that - they must already have MJ's DNA on file from the trial so why didn't they just compare it with that - why would they need a DL at all?
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Offline reading_on

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 15, 2011, 08:19:09 AM
Quote from: "lynnandsofee"
Quote from: "reading_on"
Quote from: "lynnandsofee"
We have been told that Michael was naked, we were told he had black pajama bottoms on. So where the hell was the drivers license?  Do you know anyone who keeps their drivers lic. in their pajama pocket?  And no one there, in an extreme emergency, would stop to look for Michael's drivers lic..    Get real people ??????????????????????


  Try filling in some of the blanks instead of just thinking they are going to put every single detail down on paper.  Whether it is lie or not, some things are just expected to be common sense. Consider a report from a nurse helping a patient to go the bathroom. The report would probably say "assisted patient to (insert word here)" but would not say "took down pants, "took down underwear".. doesn't that sound like too many details? In fact, if they were giving a lot more details I would be more inclined to think they would be overdoing it.
Remember I am not contradicting you at all, just a trick when investigating is to fill in the blanks to see if it is plausible. Try to start with the DL in the coroner's hand and work backward in your mind.
I was taken to the hospital twice in my life for heart attacks, and not once did anyone ask for my drivers license.  They were to busy trying to save my life.  I still think the drivers lic. theory is BS, of course we again will never know.  I'm just using my common sense.

Our local hospitals,e each one of them, without exception asks for DL every time you go. They do that to confirm identity for insurance purposes. They even have a computer swipe where it picks up information off the strip in your DL. If you have it with you, no writing at all!
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Offline Grace

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 15, 2011, 09:14:50 AM
What is a
Quote
Driver's License
?

This is a functional description / common understanding:
Quote
A driver's license/licence (United States/Canada/South Africa), or driving licence (United Kingdom, Ireland, rest of Commonwealth; see spelling differences) is an official document which states that a person may operate a motorized vehicle, such as a motorbike, car, truck or a bus, on a public roadway. As most adult Canadians and citizens of the USA possess a valid driver's license, the driving license has become the de facto standard form of picture identification in those countries.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver%27s_license

More specifically:
Quote
Drive may refer to:
    * Driving, the act of controlling a vehicle
    * Road, an identifiable thoroughfare, route, way or path between two places
    * Driveway, a private road for local access to structures
    * Drive (charity), a campaign to collect items other than money
      [...]

Behavior and psychology
    * Drive theory, a diverse set of motivational theories in psychology
          o Motivation, the internal condition that activates behavior and gives it direction
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive

What is a license?
Quote
The verb license or grant licence means to give permission. The noun license (American English) or licence (British English) refers to that permission as well as to the document recording that permission.

A license may be granted by a party ("licensor") to another party ("licensee") as an element of an agreement between those parties. A shorthand definition of a license is "an authorization (by the licensor) to use the licensed material (by the licensee)."

In particular a license may be issued by authorities, to allow an activity that would otherwise be forbidden. It may require paying a fee and/or proving a capability. The requirement may also serve to keep the authorities informed on a type of activity, and to give them the opportunity to set conditions and limitations.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/License

Being identified by a "driver's license" would translate into:
being recognized as the one holding a permission to execute activities that otherwise would be forbidden and holding direction and control over any action move bound to those activities.



There are many songs and films about "driving".
Two stood out to me:

[youtube:39s1n7hy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTjzZzfR7w[/youtube:39s1n7hy]
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTjzZzfR7w

Quote
"Drive" was The Cars' highest charting single in the United States, peaking at number three on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. [...] It was famously used as part of the Live Aid concert in 1985 as the background music to a montage of clips showing poverty-stricken Africa.
[...]
The music video was directed by Timothy Hutton. [...] At the end you can see the band and Paulina Porizkova as wax figures.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_%28The_Cars_song%29

Quote
Drive (Lyrics)
Artist(Band):The Cars


Who's gonna tell you when,
It's too late,
Who's gonna tell you things,
Aren't so great.

You cant go on, thinkin',
Nothings' wrong, whoa ho...,
Who's gonna drive you home,
tonight.?

Who's gonna pick you up,
When You fall?
Who's gonna hang it up,
When you call?

Who's gonna pay attention,
To your dreams?
And who's gonna plug their ears,
When you scream?

You can't go on, thinkin'
Nothings wrong, whoa ho...,
(who's gonna drive you)
(who's gonna drive you)
Who's gonna drive you home, tonight?
(who's gonna drive you home)

(bye baby)
(bye baby)
(bye baby)
(bye baby)

Who's gonna hold you down,
When you shake?
Who's gonna come around,
When you break?

You can't go on, thinkin',
Nothin's wrong, whoa ho...,
(Who's gonna drive you)
(who's gonna drive you)
Who's gonna drive you home, tonight?
(who's gonna drive you home)

Ho..., you know you can't go on, thinkin',
Nothin's wrong,
(Who's gonna drive you)
(Who's gonna drive you home)
Who's gonna drive you home, tonight?

(bye baby)
(bye baby)
(bye baby)
http://http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/drive-lyrics-the-cars/26119610ec42b140482568a800249d37

Quote
The Driver is a 1978 crime film directed by Walter Hill and starring Ryan O'Neal, Bruce Dern, and Isabelle Adjani.
[...]
Reception
Saying it's "probably advisable for film noir aficionados only," film critic Duncan Shepherd of the San Diego Reader praised the film highly (awarding it the highest 5-star rating). "The whole show, in fact, is something like a coded message passed from the moviemaker to the devotees of the genre, in full view of, but beyond the full understanding of, the rest of the audience," according to Shepherd.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Driver
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Offline YouGiveMeButterflies

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 16, 2011, 07:44:26 PM
Some of the video footage from TII was, allegedly, from a day - or at least a few days - before he "died".  And he was clearly and obviously recognizable in that footage.  So either the TII footage is from WAY earlier, before his appearance went "hospice", or something was up with the person being recognized by the ambulance people (i.e. it wasn't Michael).  

Sorry, but if you see Michael Jackson, I don't care who you are or where you're from or how sick Michael might be, you are GOING to recognize him in about 2.5 seconds at MOST.  Michael Jackson is the most recognizable face on the planet, PERIOD.   I do not buy for a second that it is remotely possible for an LA ambulance driver to not recognize Michael Jackson the second he sees him.
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Offline PeaceLoveHappiness

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 16, 2011, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: "reading_on"
Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
Quote from: "MJ_Facts"
Question:

How can you identify someone who looks old, ill and very pale --- like a "hospice patient" (that's what the paramedics said during the hearing) at the same time identifying this person (UCLA) by his driver's license which is from the 80's?????  :shock:

Can someone pls explain?

I think we should first question why a DL from the 80's is being used for comparison purposes to begin with. Where I live DL's are updated every 4 years---as people's looks and weight tend to change . I suspect that CA is no different in that regard.

How do we know that it was from the 80's?


I'm wondering the same thing.  Michael's license should definitely have been updated since the 80's unless he doesn't drive at all.  I'm sure he drives on occasion.  I suspect that his license has at least been updated at some point in the 2000's.  My license has had to be updated every 5 years in all 4 states that I've lived in (although I've never lived in CA).  Even Michael isn't above having an updated license to drive!

On another note, I've always wondered why he was ID'd by his license anyway since there were so many family members at the hospital.  Why couldn't one of them ID him?  Unless none of them wanted to outright lie.
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Offline curls

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 17, 2011, 05:21:22 AM
Quote from: "PeaceLoveHappiness"

On another note, I've always wondered why he was ID'd by his license anyway since there were so many family members at the hospital.  Why couldn't one of them ID him?  Unless none of them wanted to outright lie.

Absolutely! He was ID'd by his (miraculously appeared and possibly old) driving licence, when he didn't even look like MJ (according to EMTs) and his family were there????  Maybe they didn't recognise him either!!!  Hmm, now what could be the reason for that?!
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: January 17, 2011, 02:42:09 PM
Seriously. I wonder where is Michael's current driver's license.That one should not be valid any more.
 Did he take it with him, just in case?   :lol:
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Offline MJ_Facts

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: February 23, 2011, 11:22:33 AM
I don't believe for 1 second that he has been identified by his driver's license.

No way.

Imagine the whole situation on June 25th: Who brought the license to the hospital? LaToya? Who? And why would she know where to find this licencse? I do not think they were so close that someone from the family knew where to find it. And I don't think either that Mike had the license with him in this pyjama  ;)
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Offline fordtocarr

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: February 23, 2011, 11:32:50 AM
Why, as Murray rode in the ambulance, (didn't the bodyguard too?  how'd two medics and Michael and Murray fit in there, Murray is BIG)why didn't Murray say in there, it's Michael?  Tell me, at the hospital in admitting in Emergency he didn't say it is Michael Jackson?  He just stood there with his patient that he's not letting them stop resuscitation on, and say NOTHING?  When they said patients name, he said WHAT?
And, that license was over 20 years old, he moved from country to country, state to state, city to city, tell me he managed to hang onto a drivers license for 20 years??  And who took it there with them??  Michael couldn't as he was being resuscitated.  So, was it laying there on the nightstand in case??  And in the confusion, with his ONE free hand, he grabbed the drivers license and continued cpr???  
NOT!  
Sometimes it's simply funny
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Offline MissG

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: February 23, 2011, 12:43:26 PM
The only logic I find is the following:

-A cadaver arrives to the morge,
-the forensic doctor takes finger prints of the cadaver to identify it
-once the finger prints are taken, they try to find a match with the archives registered in the police,
-an example of that archive would be the ID or Drivers license of the now cadaver

After that, family members or relatives are called to identify the cadaver by viewing it

Who identified MJ? LaToya?
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Offline Grace

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Re: Hospice Patient vs. Idendifcation Driver's License

  • on: February 23, 2011, 02:45:10 PM
Quote from: "MJ_Facts"
I don't believe for 1 second that he has been identified by his driver's license.

No way.

Imagine the whole situation on June 25th: Who brought the license to the hospital? LaToya? Who? And why would she know where to find this licencse? I do not think they were so close that someone from the family knew where to find it. And I don't think either that Mike had the license with him in this pyjama  ;)

Not to forget, that he was perfectly shaved.
Somebody thought about details.  ;)

You know in France you may prove your existance by your gas or electricity bill.
Same approach. I always thought it was more than funny that some bill or bought license would prove better that one is a human being living somewhere than a passport or regular ID card issued by an authority.
I wonder how one gets an emergency treatment in a hospital in Caliland without a driver's license. Could it be they would not provide first aid due to missing cash or insurance or driver's license and rather let a person die? Just asking.
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Offline StrangerInCalifornia

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I live in California and the driver's license does expire after 4 years and you have to be sent a new one but you have  the option of using the same picture up until a certain point. I'm not sure when that point is but I'm 22 and my license doesn't expire until 2015 when I will be 26. So up until that time my license will have a picture on it that was taken when I was 15 (from my learner's permit). I'm not sure if I will be able to use the same picture or not when it is updated but it is possible to have a picture that is at least 11 years old.
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Offline voiceforthesilent

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Quote from: "StrangerInCalifornia"
I live in California and the driver's license does expire after 4 years and you have to be sent a new one but you have  the option of using the same picture up until a certain point. I'm not sure when that point is but I'm 22 and my license doesn't expire until 2015 when I will be 26. So up until that time my license will have a picture on it that was taken when I was 15 (from my learner's permit). I'm not sure if I will be able to use the same picture or not when it is updated but it is possible to have a picture that is at least 11 years old.

Stranger - thank you for sharing your information about your drivers license. I live in Arizona and my drivers license is good for 23 years. I'm not sure at what point I need to change my picture or have my eyes tested but my picture is now almost 10 years old on that license.

Quote
I wonder how one gets an emergency treatment in a hospital in Caliland without a driver's license. Could it be they would not provide first aid due to missing cash or insurance or driver's license and rather let a person die? Just asking.

Grace - I believe our Federal Laws state that Emergency Rooms cannot turn down someone in need of assistance regardless of their ability to pay.

Interesting thoughts...highly unlikely that Michael would not be instantly recognized. Blessings.
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