Murray has been telling us too!!

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Offline ladymjc

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Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 14, 2011, 12:27:13 PM
I’m no medical expert, but I was looking up the medicines that were found in his home and asked my sister what they were. Then I started thinking about all the contradictions in what everyone was saying about Michael when they saw him. Murray said he wasn’t breathing, but he had a faint pulse, The paramedics thought he was dead, (suspicous but still possible in the ambulance photo that is supposedly fake we can clearly see a vein bulging from his forehead), the family said he was in a coma, some say he was cold and some say he was warm and the doctors at UCLA said he was alive.  Propofol is a sedative that can be injected once and depending on the dosage can make you drowsy. Most of the time it is given in a singular dosage for insomniacs and the effects only last 10 minutes. But if put in a dripping IV it sends you into a euphoric sleep state for 2-24 hours. He would have had to given him a shit ton of it to cause an overdose as the cause of death was only “acute propofol intoxication”.  It could be very possible that MJ liked propofol and used it as a sleeping aid.
But the timeline of events leading to MJ’s death just don’t make sense to me. Murray started giving Michael the benzodiazepines lorazepam  and midazolam which are pretty hardcore sedatives, but MJ still couldn’t sleep. Michael obviously knew a lot about prescription drugs and with Murray being a doctor he should have know these medicines combined with propofol can cause a state of deep unconsciousness (which is a coma) and make a person stop breathing. But Murray is saying that he thinks Michael injected himself with propofol while he was in the bathroom because when he got back he wasn’t breathing. So Murray calls all these people,  he hides the medicine he was giving him in a duffel bag. BUT why would he not hide the drugs that were found in the closet? These included midazolam and flumazenil. Oral midazolam is administered as a pre-anesthetic agent for pediatric patients. The usual dose is 0.5-0.75mg/kg.1 The dose is drawn up from the ampoule and mixed with juice prior to administration due to its bitter taste. The bioavailability of oral midazolam is 15-27%, onset of action 10-20 minutes, and duration of sedation 20 minutes to 3 hours.  http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/T ... azolam.htm. Also in the toxicology report it was not mentioned that flumazenil was in his system. Flumazenil is used to counteract the benzodiazepines and literally pushes them out of your system.
What if what really happened was, they started with the benzos in light doses and Murray was the one who was taking on the role of  “killing him”. So Murray hooked up the IV of propofol,  Michael drank the midazolam that was in the orange juice bottle by his bed (which would explain the defense saying that MJ drank propofol) to put himself into the deep sleep.  Then MJ knowing the results of what could happen injected himself with the flumazenil to counteract the benzos. (the reason why the defense would say he injected it himself.)  Then Murray had to wait until Michael was in that state of deep consciousness, or the coma in which his family described before having 911 called. This would also explain the children’s reaction if Michael didn’t want them to know what was going on just yet.  The paramedics arrive right when the effects of the propofol and benzos are taking place and he stops breathing, but by the time he reaches the hospital the flumazenil kicks in and he is alive again, but still sleeping. The family has to be in on it because they arrived at the hospital before he did, and that’s when Murray explains to the children what happened. And the doctor’s at UCLA did contribute to this “miracle unheard of” and MJ tells them that he wants to get out of the spotlight. They don’t confirm he is dead, but instead evacuate the building with the fire alarm and moved him into a private room to let him recover. Then when it is time for him to be taken to the coroner’s he is flown by helicopter. They don’t use the normal body bag to put him in the helicopter and it is speculated that the body moves, but for sake of investigation we can leave that up to just coincidence right now. I think it there was some kind of documenting going on there at the coroners and the reason why the family had to have a second autopsy done was so they could have a friend help out and say that Jackson was healthy and no rigormortis was found to give us a clue he is not dead.  I also find it strange that Discovery wanted to show a documentated re-inactment of  Jackson’s auptopsy. Also in an article on June 26 “The autopsy is complete, but the Los Angeles Coroner's Office isn't expected to rule on Michael Jackson's cause of death for several weeks — until toxicology and other additional testing is completed. Chief Coroner Craig Harvey said at a Friday afternoon news conference that more tests have been ordered and will take approximately four to six weeks, but authorities have found no evidence of external trauma or foul play. Police stressed on Thursday that the doctor was not a criminal suspect. There has been speculation that drugs may have played a role in the death of the icon, with TMZ citing sources who claim he was given a "heavy dose of morphine" before his death. Other reports claim that Jackson received a shot of Demerol — a similar narcotic— shortly before his death.”
Isn’t it strange that these media sources are basing their stories on what TMZ has to say?  What sources told TMZ about morphine and demerol. Those were never ordered by Murray and neither was found in the home. It could have been Michael telling them to say that because his song Morphine is talking about the media making him sick, and being liars. He also says “heart attack”, “Is truth a game..To win the fame…It's all the same.” You can also here him speaking in this song “Listen to what the doctor says”  before he sings “Demerol, Oh God he’s taking Demerol”.  Maybe this is why Murray is saying he did nothing wrong and that the truth will prevail.
 It probably wasn’t supposed to happen that he was filmed getting out of the coroner’s van when he was taken to the morgue so he contacted his friends at TMZ to make the cover up video. (I am also assuming that because June 26 is an 8 date and the day the proving of the hoax video was released is also an 8 date. See more on my numerology connections on this post viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17267)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline MJonmind

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 14, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
Thanks  ladymjc, for that detailed annalysis. You know something in my heart tells me you're on the right track. There's been miracles of numbers in this hoax, but I know deep down there were other God-provided ways of escape for Michael. In all our attempts to bring the two sides together with another body, or dummy, which may have also been used, I think there is this missing element and I think you're on to something. Bottom line, is Michael's alive, no question about that. I stopped short with your line from "Cry". Here's the song which I feel speaks of the hoax and MJ's purpose in the world.

"Cry"

[Verse 1]
Somebody shakes when the wind blows
Somebody's missing a friend, hold on
Somebody's lacking a hero
And they have not a clue
When it's all gonna end (aint it the truth)
[Verse 2]
Stories buried and untold
Someone is hiding the truth, hold on (MJ and others)
When will this mystery unfold
And will the sun ever shine (all the scenes of sky and the sun in HMH)
In the blind man's eyes when he cries?

[Chorus:]
You can change the world (I can't do it by myself)
You can touch the sky (Gonna take somebody's help)
You're the chosen one (I'm gonna need some kind of sign)(are we the sign he needs?)
If we all cry at the same time tonight

[Verse 3]
People laugh when they're feelin sad
Someone is taking a life, hold on (Murray is the suspect!!)
Respect to believe in your dreams (lots here are dreaming alright)
Tell me where were you
when your children cried last night?

[Verse 4]
Faces fill with madness (the public and most MJ fans at MJ's 'murder')
 Miracles unheard of
, hold on
Faith is found in the winds
All we have to do
Is reach for the truth

[Chorus]

And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers
[Chorus x3]

Change the world
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ladymjc

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 14, 2011, 03:54:32 PM
I was thinking the same exact thing this morning and that is what lead to me to think of this!! A miracle unheard of. He was brought back to life! Wooo.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline michaelsupporter

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 14, 2011, 05:42:39 PM
I agree with all of your comments in the respect that if there was ever a time that MJ needs our unconditional love and support, it is now. It is time to rally around him and not only show him that he can count on us....but we need to extend that same respect and love to our fellow man everywhere, everyday!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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MJhasSpoken

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 15, 2011, 02:03:05 AM
Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
I agree with all of your comments in the respect that if there was ever a time that MJ needs our unconditional love and support, it is now. It is time to rally around him and not only show him that he can count on us....but we need to extend that same respect and love to our fellow man everywhere, everyday!

 :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LadyMedic

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 21, 2011, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: "ladymjc"
and he stops breathing, but by the time he reaches the hospital the flumazenil kicks in and he is alive again, but still sleeping.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ignisaeternus

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 21, 2011, 07:41:55 PM
Thanks for your research, ladymjc.  I agree that Michael is alive, but I am not sure things went down the way you theorized.  
Flumazenil usually acts pretty fast- most of the time within 3 minutes:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/flumazenil-injection.html

I think there would have been too many risk factors and the timing could not have gone down to the minute as Michael had planned (and as TS pointed out, both the call at 12:21 and the time of death 2:26 had to be locked in place by people in the "know." )

Also, I just want to point out that propfol is not used as treatment for insomnia as it does not produce REM sleep.  I think the reason Michael chose propofol overdose as cause of death was so people would figure out that it made zero sense for him to ask for propofol or be "addicted" to it (as reported by some), as he would have figured out pretty soon that he did not wake up rested.  Also, it had long term movement coordination side effects.  Would Michael whose dancing was a form of self expression and communication as well as part of his spirituality really risk that for a "sleep agent" that would not let him sleep?  I think this medication was chosen on purpose as just another red flag for people to scratch their heads and go "what?" Only- look how many swallowed it hook, line, and sinker...just because it was "written in a magazine and shown on a tv screen"...- the research is easy enough to come by for anyone as we know.  If you look, you will find.  If you just swallow what you are fed- you will stay blind!

@Michaelsupporter: AMEN! Absolutely!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline sk2001

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 21, 2011, 07:43:26 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "ladymjc"
and he stops breathing, but by the time he reaches the hospital the flumazenil kicks in and he is alive again, but still sleeping.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works :(

I agree! But hey atleast we all try to make sense of what's going on unlike some non- believer fans right? :). Also, if this was the case, I don't think the doctors would have confirmed mj was DOA in the court unless it's all fake :$
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline sk2001

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 21, 2011, 07:45:41 PM
Well said :)

Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Thanks for your research, ladymjc.  I agree that Michael is alive, but I am not sure things went down the way you theorized.  
Flumazenil usually acts pretty fast- most of the time within 3 minutes:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/flumazenil-injection.html

I think there would have been too many risk factors and the timing could not have gone down to the minute as Michael had planned (and as TS pointed out, both the call at 12:21 and the time of death 2:26 had to be locked in place by people in the "know." )

Also, I just want to point out that propfol is not used as treatment for insomnia as it does not produce REM sleep.  I think the reason Michael chose propofol overdose as cause of death was so people would figure out that it made zero sense for him to ask for propofol or be "addicted" to it (as reported by some), as he would have figured out pretty soon that he did not wake up rested.  Also, it had long term movement coordination side effects.  Would Michael whose dancing was a form of self expression and communication as well as part of his spirituality really risk that for a "sleep agent" that would not let him sleep?  I think this medication was chosen on purpose as just another red flag for people to scratch their heads and go "what?" Only- look how many swallowed it hook, line, and sinker...just because it was "written in a magazine and shown on a tv screen"...- the research is easy enough to come by for anyone as we know.  If you look, you will find.  If you just swallow what you are fed- you will stay blind!

@Michaelsupporter: AMEN! Absolutely!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ladymjc

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Re: Murray has been telling us too!!

  • on: January 22, 2011, 08:28:26 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Thanks for your research, ladymjc.  I agree that Michael is alive, but I am not sure things went down the way you theorized.  
Flumazenil usually acts pretty fast- most of the time within 3 minutes:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/flumazenil-injection.html

I think there would have been too many risk factors and the timing could not have gone down to the minute as Michael had planned (and as TS pointed out, both the call at 12:21 and the time of death 2:26 had to be locked in place by people in the "know." )

Also, I just want to point out that propfol is not used as treatment for insomnia as it does not produce REM sleep.  I think the reason Michael chose propofol overdose as cause of death was so people would figure out that it made zero sense for him to ask for propofol or be "addicted" to it (as reported by some), as he would have figured out pretty soon that he did not wake up rested.  Also, it had long term movement coordination side effects.  Would Michael whose dancing was a form of self expression and communication as well as part of his spirituality really risk that for a "sleep agent" that would not let him sleep?  I think this medication was chosen on purpose as just another red flag for people to scratch their heads and go "what?" Only- look how many swallowed it hook, line, and sinker...just because it was "written in a magazine and shown on a tv screen"...- the research is easy enough to come by for anyone as we know.  If you look, you will find.  If you just swallow what you are fed- you will stay blind!

@Michaelsupporter: AMEN! Absolutely!
[/quote]

That is all very correct. But I want to run one more thing by you and see if it makes sense. You know how they said that MJ had 8 other doctors and 1 other nurse taking care of him as well?  One of them said that MJ had asked her to give him Diprivan, but she said no.  How could he request that of her if she was a nutritionist? Why was he requesting Deprivan?
I personally don't think he was sick. I think they were working for him formulating these medications into the right dosage for this to work.

(GABA[A]) receptors in the central nervous system are thought to be a potential target site of action for general anesthetics. Extensive studies have shown that benzodiazepines (midazolam and lorazepam) and propofol, bind to their allosteric sites at GABA[A]receptors, and potentiate GABA-activated chloride currents . These anesthetics are occasionally co-administered for induction or maintenance of anesthesia, presumably to facilitate a smooth and rapid induction or to reduce adverse effects by a single agent used at high doses. Several clinical studies have reported that midazolam combined with propofol synergistically potentiates their hypnotic effects.

Propofol has a rapid onset within 40 seconds and if it was just injected once he would be awake within 8 minutes. BUT Murray had him hooked to an IV which could have kept him under sedation for much longer which means there would be no reason for the other sedatives. Here is some information on a study someone did on the difference between long term sedation of propofol vs midazolam.  http://www.springerlink.com/content/ajy5xd67d6xlmybb/.

If they had the times pinpointed to the exact moment it needed to happen, then they had to have the exact dosages of each of these medications and knowing their effects on each other, the times of these effects and what each one actually is. The word propofol is used to describe the medicine, but it isn't actual propofol. That was taken off the market, emulsified and relaunched in 1986 under the name Diprivan which is only 1% propofol.  It is also said that Murray had diluted the 25mg of "propofol" with lidocaine and in a study they found that the addition of lidocaine to propofol causes destabilization of the emulsion and reduces anesthetic potency. It is also a lot lower dose than the 50mg he was supposedly giving him previously in the last 6 weeks because he thought Michael was getting addicted.
So if Murray was giving him doses of the benzos from 3am - 7:30am and he still couldn't sleep then he wasn't giving him much at all, just enough to keep it in his system.  Then at 10:40 he started the IV of propofol with lidocaine which would only be .25% propofol. The plasma concentrations of propofol and midazolam required for hypnosis (loss of responses to verbal command) in humans has been reported to be 2-5 mg/ml and 0.6-1 mg/ml.  If they had constructed the timing of the doses and the dose amount perfectly, then by the time MJ drank the midazolam of the usual dose 0.5-0.75mg/kg.1 with onset of action 10-20 minutes, and duration of sedation 20 minutes to 3 hours combined synergistically with the mg dosage of propofol having an onset within 40 seconds then as soon as Murray put in the IV Mike was out!  Which means he would have had to inject himself with the flumazenil first. Flumazenil antagonizes the effects of benzodiazepines on the CNS by competitively inhibiting their action at the benzodiazepine recognition site on the GABA/benzodiazepine receptor complex. BUT does not antagonize the CNS effects of general anesthetics such as Diprivan "propofol". Depending on the dose, there will be partial or complete antagonism of sedation, impaired recall, and psychomotor impairment. The duration of reversal is related to the plasma levels of the benzodiazepine and the dose of flumazenil. Distribution t 1/2, initial: 7-15 min; terminal t 1/2: 41-79 min.  

What all of this means basically is during the 4 1/2 hours Murray was administering the very light doses of benzodiazepines (6mg total) they were reaching at almost 100% plasma levels. If they were at 100% by the time that MJ had injected the 2mg of Flumazenil, the reversal for the benzos would be terminal (100%) 1/2 41-79 minutes. If Murray had started the IV drip at 10:40 putting MJ to sleep that means he was going into a deep unconsciousness by 12:21, and the flumazenil would be reversing the effects of the benzos but not the Diprivan.  He would still appear to be in a coma state. But by the time he arrived at the hospital because Murray had diluted the propofol he wouldn't have been as deeply sedated as he would be if it was used as an independent agent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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