0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 10:36:25 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

~Souza~

Re: TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 10:39:55 PM
Oh my, I remember studying Martin Luther at school, but that's a looooooong time ago. I will go and read. Thanks for keeping us educated and off the streets TS! :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Re: TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 10:51:54 PM
What stood out to me was this quote from Martin Luther:

Luther is sometimes also quoted as saying: "Here I stand. I can do no other".

"Here I stand" is from the song This Is It....it has always been the line that stood out to me in the song.

Interesting redirect for sure!
Thanks for the post.....
Blessings Always!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

~Souza~

Re: TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 10:52:25 PM

Aha, interesting...


Quote
From 1510 to 1520, Luther lectured on the Psalms, the books of Hebrews, Romans, and Galatians. As he studied these portions of the Bible, he came to view the use of terms such as penance and righteousness by the Catholic Church in new ways. He became convinced that the church was corrupt in its ways and had lost sight of what he saw as several of the central truths of Christianity. The most important for Luther was the doctrine of justification – God's act of declaring a sinner righteous – by faith alone through God's grace. He began to teach that salvation or redemption is a gift of God's grace, attainable only through faith in Jesus as the Messiah. "This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification," he wrote, "is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness.

Quote
The enforcement of the ban on the 95 Theses fell to the secular authorities. On 18 April 1521, Luther appeared as ordered before the Diet of Worms. This was a general assembly of the estates of the Holy Roman Empire that took place in Worms, a town on the Rhine. It was conducted from 28 January to 25 May 1521, with Emperor Charles V presiding. Prince Frederick III, Elector of Saxony, obtained a safe conduct for Luther to and from the meeting.
Johann Eck, speaking on behalf of the Empire as assistant of the Archbishop of Trier, presented Luther with copies of his writings laid out on a table and asked him if the books were his, and whether he stood by their contents. Luther confirmed he was their author, but requested time to think about the answer to the second question. He prayed, consulted friends, and gave his response the next day:
Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen.
Luther is sometimes also quoted as saying: "Here I stand. I can do no other". Recent scholars consider the evidence for these words to be unreliable, since they were inserted before "May God help me" only in later versions of the speech and not recorded in witness accounts of the proceedings.
Over the next five days, private conferences were held to determine Luther's fate. The Emperor presented the final draft of the Diet of Worms on 25 May 1521, declaring Luther an outlaw, banning his literature, and requiring his arrest: "We want him to be apprehended and punished as a notorious heretic." It also made it a crime for anyone in Germany to give Luther food or shelter. It permitted anyone to kill Luther without legal consequence.

Quote
Luther's disappearance during his return trip was planned. Frederick III, Elector of Saxony had him intercepted on his way home by masked horsemen and escorted to the security of the Wartburg Castle at Eisenach. During his stay at Wartburg, which he referred to as "my Patmos", Luther translated the New Testament from Greek into German and poured out doctrinal and polemical writings. These included a renewed attack on Archbishop Albrecht of Mainz, whom he shamed into halting the sale of indulgences in his episcopates, and a "Refutation of the Argument of Latomus," in which he expounded the principle of justification to Jacobus Latomus, an orthodox theologian from Louvain.
In this work, one of his most emphatic statements on faith, he argued that every good work designed to attract God's favour is a sin. All humans are sinners by nature, he explained, and God's grace, which cannot be earned, alone can make them just. On 1 August 1521, Luther wrote to Melanchthon on the same theme: "Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides."


Quote
The room in Wartburg where Luther translated the New Testament into German. An original first edition of the translation is kept under the case on the desk.
In the summer of 1521, Luther widened his target from individual pieties like indulgences and pilgrimages to doctrines at the heart of Church practices. In On the Abrogation of the Private Mass, he condemned as idolatry the idea that the mass is a sacrifice, asserting instead that it is a gift, to be received with thanksgiving by the whole congregation. His essay On Confession, Whether the Pope has the Power to Require It rejected compulsory confession and encouraged private confession and absolution, since "every Christian is a confessor." In November, Luther wrote The Judgement of Martin Luther on Monastic Vows. He assured monks and nuns that they could break their vows without sin, because vows were an illegitimate and vain attempt to win salvation.
Luther made his pronouncements from Wartburg in the context of rapid developments at Wittenberg, of which he was kept fully informed. Andreas Karlstadt, supported by the ex-Augustinian Gabriel Zwilling, embarked on a radical programme of reform there in June 1521, exceeding anything envisaged by Luther. The reforms provoked disturbances, including a revolt by the Augustinian monks against their prior, the smashing of statues and images in churches, and denunciations of the magistracy. After secretly visiting Wittenberg in early December 1521, Luther wrote A Sincere Admonition by Martin Luther to All Christians to Guard Against Insurrection and Rebellion. Wittenberg became even more volatile after Christmas when a band of visionary zealots, the so-called Zwickau prophets, arrived, preaching revolutionary doctrines such as the equality of man, adult baptism, and Christ's imminent return. When the town council asked Luther to return, he decided it was his duty to act.

Quote
Luther secretly returned to Wittenberg on 6 March 1522. "During my absence," he wrote to the Elector, "Satan has entered my sheepfold, and committed ravages which I cannot repair by writing, but only by my personal presence and living word." For eight days in Lent, beginning on Invocavit Sunday, 9 March, Luther preached eight sermons, which became known as the "Invocavit Sermons." In these sermons, he hammered home the primacy of core Christian values such as love, patience, charity, and freedom, and reminded the citizens to trust God's word rather than violence to bring about necessary change.
Do you know what the Devil thinks when he sees men use violence to propagate the gospel? He sits with folded arms behind the fire of hell, and says with malignant looks and frightful grin: "Ah, how wise these madmen are to play my game! Let them go on; I shall reap the benefit. I delight in it." But when he sees the Word running and contending alone on the battle-field, then he shudders and shakes for fear.
The effect of Luther's intervention was immediate. After the sixth sermon, the Wittenberg jurist Jerome Schurf wrote to the elector: "Oh, what joy has Dr. Martin’s return spread among us! His words, through divine mercy, are bringing back every day misguided people into the way of the truth."
Luther next set about reversing or modifying the new church practices. By working alongside the authorities to restore public order, he signalled his reinvention as a conservative force within the Reformation. After banishing the Zwickau prophets, he now faced a battle not only against the established Church but against radical reformers who threatened the new order by fomenting social unrest and violence.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Re: TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 11:16:03 PM
You know what's so cool about this big wide adventure?  We get a chance to learn so much.....if we just read and open our eyes.  I knew the basics of Martin Luther.  But to really digest and learn something new is amazing.  I love the parallel about Martin Luther disappearing and then reappearing.  The story is so full of mystery and intrigue....just like where we are today, right now.  

Blessings Always!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 11:38:08 PM
Augsburg Confession
Shaken by the Siege of Vienna, Charles V convened an Imperial Diet at Augsburg in 1530, aiming to unite the empire against the Turks. To achieve this, he needed first to resolve the religious controversies in his lands, "considering with love and kindness the views of everybody". He asked for a statement of the evangelical case, and one was duly devised by Luther, Melanchthon, and their Wittenberg colleagues. Melanchthon drafted the document, known as the Augsburg Confession, and travelled with the elector's party to Augsburg, where it was read to the emperor and diet on 25 June 1530. Luther was left behind at the Coburg fortress in southern Saxony because he remained under the imperial ban and lacked a safe-conduct to attend the diet. His writings during his 165 days at Coburg, including the Exhortation to all Clergy Assembled at Augsburg, show that, unlike Melanchthon, he was set against making concessions.

Despite the Confession's avoidance of strident language or abuse of the pope, the diet rejected it on 22 September. The reformers were ordered to renounce heresy and submit to the control of the Catholic Church by the following April or face the imperial army. The decision confirmed Luther's belief that the mission had been futile. It prompted the Lutheran princes to form a military alliance, the Schmalkaldic League, which Luther cautiously supported on grounds of self-defence in his Warning to His Dear German People of 1531. The Augsburg Confession had become the statement of faith on which Lutherans were prepared to stand or fall. Though a modified version of Luther's position, it is regarded as the first Lutheran treatise.

The Augsburg Confession
The Augsburg Confession consists of 28 articles presented by Lutheran princes and representatives of "free cities" at the Diet of Augsburg that set forward what the Lutherans believed, taught and confessed in positive (theses) and negative (antitheses) statements. The theses are 21 Chief Articles of Faith describing the normative principles of Christian faith held by the Lutherans, the antitheses are seven statements describing what they viewed as abuses of the Christian faith present in the Roman (Catholic) church.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Re: TIAI January 16
January 15, 2011, 11:42:14 PM
Here's my thoughts: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

*

Andrea

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 12:17:58 AM
This is an interesting redirect.

"Some things in life they just don't wanna see, but if Martin Luther were living, he wouldn't let this be".

[youtube:3f6gm46y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDB8hUF5U98&feature=fvsr[/youtube:3f6gm46y]

I was reminded of this right away, starts off with Martin Luther King Jr's voice followed by Michael singing "Martin Luther".  Was he referring to both or just one "Martin Luther"?  And this redirect on the heels of MLK's birthday redirect...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

trublu

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 04:39:01 AM
hmmmm...

Quote
In his later years, Luther became strongly antisemitic, writing that Jewish homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated and liberty curtailed. These statements have made Luther a controversial figure among many historians and religious scholars.[8]

Sounds like he was quite racist and hateful.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

finfin

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 04:45:50 AM
Quote from: "lilwendy"
Here's my thoughts: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Thank you very much lilwendy, I enjoyed reading this and enjoyed the video clip with Lenny Kravitz talking about "Another Day". This reminds us about Michael's relationship with God - Michael read the Bible daily and Martin Luther believed that The Bible is the only source of divinely revealed knowledge.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
 

"Consciousness expresses itself through creation. This world we live in is the dance of the creator." Michael Jackson

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 05:11:37 AM
Okay, I'm confused. In TDCAU, Michael said, "...but if Martin Luther was living..." To me, it sounds like King, because of the meaning of the song, but he said Martin Luther, without "King".  :? So, TS, whatcha trying to say???

--reason
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
C--ontains
O--ptional
I--nformation
N--ot
C--razy
I--ncidents
D--emanding
E--motional
N--aive
C--razed
E--nforcements


-----------------------------------

b--elieving
e--verything
L--ike
I--nconsistent
E--vidence
v--aries
i--n
n--umerous
g--enres


------------------------------------

If you would just \'Hold my Hand\', together we can cause \'Breaking News\', because we will find out who is \'Behind the Mask\'. --reason

*

MJonmind

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 05:13:50 AM
I do not wish to offend anyone with this post, and say from the outset that I love all people groups of the world, knowing each group have their purpose designed by God for a greater purpose. But these following are facts, uncomfortable though they may be.

This song "They don't really care about us", has to do with racism and the liberty supposedly given to blacks, but they haven't really experienced it very much. When Justin Bieber said in his speech, "None of us would be here if it wasn't for Michael Jackson", it means MJ has brought a new sense of liberty to black entertainers (and understanding and appreciation of blacks by whites), but it's far from enough. Who's "they" don't really care about us?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  This site shows a well documented link between slavery to especially Jews from a black perspective.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login This link is to a very interesting article on Roosevelt's positive treatment of blacks. He started the de-segregation of blacks and whites in schools and invited the first black person to the White House. This gives an eye-opener to how racist America was and the environment African-Americans had to live in for generations. I don't think any of us could even imagine what it was like, and it's part of why Joe Jackson pushed his kids so hard to break free from grinding poverty and slave mentality. It was Abraham Lincoln who signed the Emancipation Declaration but he himself was known to grudgingly desire it, but at least it was a step in the right direction with many adding their sacrificial effort to bringing more liberty. I don't think white folks (me included) can really grasp the situation that it was for them.

When Diane Sawyer interviewed Michael and Lisa, she said Jewish people thought the song anti-semetic, and MJ said it wasn't --simply because lots of his friends were Jewish. But MJ has said less kind things elsewhere.
Quote
“They [the Jews] suck them like leeches. I'm so tired of it. They start out the most popular person in the world, make a lot of money, big house, cars and everything and end up penniless. It's a conspiracy. The Jews do it on purpose.”
Michael Jackson

Martin Luther certainly caused a break-away from the traditional Catholic church, railing against it, and certainly taught salvation by faith alone, and Scriptures alone with no priest or Catholic doctrine as equal. However there was something about Marin Luther that fits better with the context of this song, that shows Michael's true purpose in putting his name in it as well as Roosevelt's. Martin Luther was extremely anti-semitic. I won't post his long diatribes, but I'm just putting the link because they are pretty caustic.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  I am in no way endorsing or agreeing with Luther's statement merely giving you the facts here.

Quote
They Don't Care About Us lyrics

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, aggravation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Bang bang, shot dead
Everybody's gone mad

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

Beat me, hate me
You can never break me
Will me, thrill me
You can never kill me
Jew me, Sue me
Everybody do me
Kick me, Kike me
Don't you black or white me

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

Tell me what has become of my life
I have a wife and two children who love me
I am the victim of police brutality, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of hate
You're rapin' me of my pride
Oh, for God's sake
I look to heaven to fulfill its prophecy...
Set me free

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
trepidation, speculation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
black man, black mail
Throw your brother in jail

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'He wouldn't let this be, no, no

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, speculation
Everybody litigation
Beat me, bash me
You can never trash me
Hit me, kick me
You can never get me

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

Some things in life they just don't wanna see
But if Martin Luther was livin'He wouldn't let this be, no, no

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, segregation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Kick me, Kike me
Don't you wrong or right me

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

The 2 video versions of this song, one in Brazil slums under the watchful eye of the Christ statue, and the other in the prison, where you also see pics of the Klu Kluk Klan (KKK) the dreaded white organization against black freedoms of any kind.

So much of this Murray trial has suble themes of exposing racism, among many other themes.JMO
Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 05:25:34 AM by MJonmind
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

trublu

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 05:14:45 AM
Quote from: "reasonables+luvs+MJ"
Okay, I'm confused. In TDCAU, Michael said, "...but if Martin Luther was living..." To me, it sounds like King, because of the meaning of the song, but he said Martin Luther, without "King".  :? So, TS, whatcha trying to say???

--reason

I think he was talking about MLK, seeing as the video/song is about racism and hatred. And, as I previously stated, in this wiki article it says that Luther turned into an antisemitic and "writing that Jewish homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated and liberty curtailed."

Can't imagine Michael agreeing with that...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 05:23:27 AM
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "reasonables+luvs+MJ"
Okay, I'm confused. In TDCAU, Michael said, "...but if Martin Luther was living..." To me, it sounds like King, because of the meaning of the song, but he said Martin Luther, without "King".  :? So, TS, whatcha trying to say???

--reason

I think he was talking about MLK, seeing as the video/song is about racism and hatred. And, as I previously stated, in this wiki article it says that Luther turned into an antisemitic and "writing that Jewish homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated and liberty curtailed."

Can't imagine Michael agreeing with that...
Good point; I wonder why he said one name, but meant another...  :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
C--ontains
O--ptional
I--nformation
N--ot
C--razy
I--ncidents
D--emanding
E--motional
N--aive
C--razed
E--nforcements


-----------------------------------

b--elieving
e--verything
L--ike
I--nconsistent
E--vidence
v--aries
i--n
n--umerous
g--enres


------------------------------------

If you would just \'Hold my Hand\', together we can cause \'Breaking News\', because we will find out who is \'Behind the Mask\'. --reason

*

trublu

Re: TIAI January 16
January 16, 2011, 05:24:49 AM
Quote from: "reasonables+luvs+MJ"
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "reasonables+luvs+MJ"
Okay, I'm confused. In TDCAU, Michael said, "...but if Martin Luther was living..." To me, it sounds like King, because of the meaning of the song, but he said Martin Luther, without "King".  :? So, TS, whatcha trying to say???

--reason

I think he was talking about MLK, seeing as the video/song is about racism and hatred. And, as I previously stated, in this wiki article it says that Luther turned into an antisemitic and "writing that Jewish homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated and liberty curtailed."

Can't imagine Michael agreeing with that...
Good point; I wonder why he said one name, but meant another...  :?

"But if Matin Luther King was livin'"
Doesn't have the same ring?  :lol: lol I don't know :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
friendly
0
funny
0
informative
0
agree
0
disagree
0
pwnt
0
like
0
dislike
0
late
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal