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suspicious mind

Re: TIAI January 24
January 27, 2011, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
1. some believe those 144,000 are jews
2. isn't prince known to be somewhat raunchy , what about him
To say you've become a Jehovah's Witness, can it just mean you believe their take on the Bible, or does it mean that they approved and accepted you into a list of their membership. In that case MJ's elders would have given Prince a tongue-lashing as well.

Prince changed his lyrics and lifestyle as far as i know.
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yeah i saw that on site had something about it that someone posted here. prince wasn't jw in his early days. i found that since i posted this.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Re: TIAI January 24
January 28, 2011, 02:05:27 PM
You know...we all have our own interpretation of the Bible, and religion or not even a religion.  I don't think we are here to condemn any religion or belief.  Michael was whatever religion he was for whatever reasons he believed in.   Who are we to judge his heart and beliefs or not even belief?  Who are we to say which view amongst us is right or wrong?
I can give you my opinion, but then be ostracized for my opinion.  So can you.  Theology is a touchy subject to get into in this forum.  Really anyplace, as it's based on particular heart felt individual faith.  No one can say where it's from or which is correct.   But, it is one that is probably the most argued since creation...if you believe in that.
I can only say that which I believe and how it relates to Michael, as can all of us as we don't have him here to tell us, just like everything we speculate on here and hope to prove correct.  I can find articles on the internet where people say this and that, and again it's who do you believe?
I know what I believe and don't want to be judged for it.  Just as I won't judge you.  Just as I won't judge Michael or Prince.  I do know that Michael began most of what is happening to him and his suggestive moves after leaving his religion and Prince did most of his prior to joining his.  (and tried to clean his up since).  I think that religion grounds us and gives boundaries, for good or for bad that it is.  And after leaving his religion, Michael had tremendous downfalls.
  JUST MY OPINIONS...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~Souza~Topic starter

Re: TIAI January 24
January 28, 2011, 02:33:55 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
You know...we all have our own interpretation of the Bible, and religion or not even a religion.  I don't think we are here to condemn any religion or belief.  Michael was whatever religion he was for whatever reasons he believed in.   Who are we to judge his heart and beliefs or not even belief?  Who are we to say which view amongst us is right or wrong?
I can give you my opinion, but then be ostracized for my opinion.  So can you.  Theology is a touchy subject to get into in this forum.  Really anyplace, as it's based on particular heart felt individual faith.  No one can say where it's from or which is correct.   But, it is one that is probably the most argued since creation...if you believe in that.
I can only say that which I believe and how it relates to Michael, as can all of us as we don't have him here to tell us, just like everything we speculate on here and hope to prove correct.  I can find articles on the internet where people say this and that, and again it's who do you believe?
I know what I believe and don't want to be judged for it.  Just as I won't judge you.  Just as I won't judge Michael or Prince.  I do know that Michael began most of what is happening to him and his suggestive moves after leaving his religion and Prince did most of his prior to joining his.  (and tried to clean his up since).  I think that religion grounds us and gives boundaries, for good or for bad that it is.  And after leaving his religion, Michael had tremendous downfalls.
  JUST MY OPINIONS...

Belief and religion are 2 different things. I think everyone believes or wants to believe and in the end everyone wants the same; love, peace and freedom in a healthy world. It's some religions that make that impossible in my opinion.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI January 24
January 28, 2011, 04:35:07 PM
Souza...religion and belief ARE different things.  I think that Michael may have decided that he can have belief without religion.  Agreed :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI January 24
January 29, 2011, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: "bleu eyes"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
I read sometimes Watch Tower or how it is called and I think the JW think that God will give people a new earth so maybe his sister was reffering to this.

I being raised as a JW, and it's treu what you said, i want to add that there's gonna be a new heaven also to for the 144.000  Latoya  has ones pointed to that in a intervieuw.

Revelation 21: 1

I want to understand more about the 144,000.  Reading the following was very helpful.

The full study of Chapter 11 can be found here:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


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Why does God choose 144,000 people and ignore the religion systems of the world?

This is a good question. Why does God "leapfrog" over the great religious organizations that exist during the end time to use a diverse group of 144,000 people to preach the gospel? If we consider the vast resources that some religious organizations have, it would seem foolish to ignore these agencies during the end time! But, here are six reasons why God cannot use them:

1. The glory of doing the impossible, proclaiming the gospel to the whole world in 1,260 days belongs to God, not man.

2. The seven religious systems of the world are corrupt. They cannot and do not speak for God. They can neither correctly explain the everlasting gospel, nor can they properly explain the plans and purposes of God for the Great Tribulation.

3. Most people agree that God does not save people because of church affiliation. Salvation is not gained through membership in an organization. In fact, if God was going to use a religious organization to proclaim the everlasting gospel during the end time, church affiliation would prove to be an insurmountable problem. Consider the human trait called prejudice. You and I both know that some people would rather die and go to hell than to join another church or even worse, join the church of someone who has offended them. For example, let us suppose that God looked down on Earth and declared a particular sect within the Moslem faith to have the truth for the end time. How many Catholics, Jews and Protestants do you think would join with Moslems in order to be saved? Now turn the table around and ask yourself, how many Catholics, Jews, Protestants and Moslems would join your church?

4. God will not save a person because his biological great-grandfather was Abraham, Job or Daniel. The Lord has made it very clear in the book of Ezekiel that a person’s ancestry has nothing to do with their salvation! (Ezekiel 14:18; 18:4-28; Matthew 3:9) God has no grandchildren. Every child of God has to be born again.

5. A major obstacle that prevents God from using established religions during the end time is that one man cannot prove the superiority of his religion over that of another. If history proves anything, this point is proven true beyond question. Do you think that Elijah could have proven that his God was greater than the god of Baal if God had not sent fire from Heaven? Because religion is inherently arrogant and egocentric, one religious group cannot prove its superiority over another religious group.

6. God knows that religion has far more to do with social structure than with a personal love for truth. (It is said that 95% of the people remain loyal to the religious system into which they were born and raised – even if they do not practice the religion.)

Because the properties of religion are very strong within the human race, because social relationships can be more important than commitment to truth, and because there is a distinction between serving God and serving the church, God will destroy the great religions of the world and test mankind to see if we love Him and His truth above everything else.

 :arrow:  :arrow:  :arrow: The test will be simple and will be applied without partiality. God will require everyone to leave his or her church for the sake of truth! The object of our deepest affection will then be revealed. At that time, some people will discover they loved their church more than they loved God! When a contest exists between "God’s truth" and "God’s church," then, and only then, can humans detect the distinction that exists between serving God and serving the church. Until this test of loyalty is applied, most people cannot understand the problem. Remember, in Jesus’ day, the Pharisees could not figure out how they could be as blind as Jesus claimed! The same is true today. A time is coming when God’s truth will conflict with the teachings of every church, and everyone will have to make tough choices. We will see that many people cannot separate themselves from their church, even when presented with the plainest evidences of truth.

To help us make up our minds, God will allow the devil to appear on Earth. The devil (the Antichrist) will dissolve all the religions of the world and forcibly create a new global church. This event in itself will help motivate those people who could not leave their church for truth’s sake. On the other hand, people who are cowardly will prostitute their faith and join the newly created church because the devil will establish stringent laws so that everyone who refuses to join his church will be put to death. It is interesting to note in this context that God considers cowardice as great a sin as murder and sexual immorality. "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Before leaving this question, one more comment should be made. Why does God use such a tiny number of people to proclaim the everlasting gospel during the end time? Given the fact that nearly six billion people now live on Earth, it seems that the work would be much easier if He chose one million or ten million people to accomplish his task. In human terms, the 144,000, like Gideon’s army, are too few to accomplish the task. By choosing such a tiny number, God will again demonstrate that He is not dependent on flesh to accomplish His purposes. ". . . ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty." (Zechariah 4:6) Even the stones could cry out if necessary. (Luke 19:40)

Do you think the twelve stars in the woman’s crown represents the twelve tribes?

Yes! In Revelation 12, the story of the true church (represented by a righteous woman who is pregnant) and a great red dragon is told. The woman wears a crown of twelve stars on her head. From the Greek language, we learn that these stars are set in a stephanos, that is, a crown of victory. According to Revelation 1:20, stars can symbolize messengers or angels and by applying the words of
Daniel 12:3 to the woman’s crown of twelve stars we find a very beautiful fit. "Those who are wise (or teachers) will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars for ever and ever." In other words, the woman wears a crown of victory. This crown is set with twelve stars. The twelve stars represent the 144,000 – firstfruits of the twelve tribes – who will be victorious over the Antichrist.

How will the 144,000 be notified?

I presume the 144,000 will be notified just like all of the prophets in the Bible were notified. About the only thing the 144,000 have in common is their encounter with Jesus! Consider this parallel. In Revelation 10, John was given an open book and told to eat it. The book was sweet in his mouth and bitter in his stomach. Then, John was told to prophesy again before kings, nations, etc. Within the context of Revelation 10, John’s experience represents that of the 144,000. The book represents God’s words which He will give to the 144,000 to proclaim throughout the Earth. He will give the 144,000 words to speak, otherwise, they would not know what to say. (Matthew 10:19) The final proclamation of the gospel will not be a matter of human ability. God will give the words that He wants spoken to the 144,000 and the Holy Spirit will provide the power. (Matthew 10:19)

Consider Ezekiel 2:8-3:4. Like John, God gave Ezekiel a book to eat that was sweet in his mouth and bitter in his stomach. The book Ezekiel received contained the words that God wanted spoken. Ezekiel was told to speak these words to his people, whether they listen or not. This is the bitter part in the stomach. Ezekiel had to speak the words of God and this created a lot of ridicule and offense. (This explains why the life span of prophets is usually short.) Of course, the enabling power within Ezekiel was the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit enabled Ezekiel to say (and do) things that were beyond mere human capability. Ezekiel and John were both called to be prophets and they were given words to speak. This will be the experience of the 144,000.

How will the 144,000 be recognized?

 :arrow:  :arrow: The 144,000 will be recognized by three means: First, their message will be Bible based. The 144,000 will proclaim the everlasting gospel from the Bible, and as a result, they will find themselves standing in opposition to religious leaders of their day. Second, the 144,000 will be recognized by their humility, simplicity and authority. Remember John the Baptist with his humble dress? (Luke 7:25) People went out to the Jordan River to hear John the Baptist because he spoke with power and authority that came from Heaven! (Luke 7:24-26) People marveled at Jesus because of the authority with which He spoke. (Mark 1:22) Last, the 144,000 will be recognized as "prophets" because they will have the ability to perform signs and miracles. Of course, the servants of the devil will be doing miracles, too. (Exodus 8:18; Matthew 7:20-22)

During the Great Tribulation, many people will put their faith in counterfeit "miracles" because they do not want to submit to the "faith testing" terms and conditions of salvation. If a false prophet can perform a counterfeit miracle on demand (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12), many people will use the "sign" to justify rebellion against God. (Matthew 16:4) On the other hand, if the Holy Spirit knows that a miracle will help an honest person make a decision for truth, then a miracle will be given. Many miracles will occur and they will force people to take sides. This, of course, is how the sheep are separated from the goats.

How soon do you expect to see the 144,000?

I believe the great earthquake and the empowerment of the 144,000 could occur any day now. The 144,000 will not show up on TV. They will not receive a round of applause or some glittering reward. However, when they show up you will know that Jesus has taken control of Earth and the final 1,335 days (of Earth) have begun. The 144,000 will not ride in limousines or have world fame. Paul wrote, "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." (1 Corinthians 1:27)

Will the 144,000 come from one church group?

 :idea:  :idea:  :idea: No. God has people in every religious body whose hearts are right, but whose heads are wrong. (John 10:16; Romans 2:14-16) When Jesus knocked Saul off his donkey in Acts 9, Jesus knew that Saul had a good heart, but his head was terribly messed up by his religion. Consider the fact that Saul was persecuting the saints when Jesus called him to take the gospel to the Gentiles. My point is that, like Saul, the 144,000 will come from all religions. Many people have good hearts toward God, and after they encounter Jesus and receive the words that He wants them to speak, they will be transformed, just as Saul became Paul!

The net effect is simple. God wants to save as many people as possible. Therefore, God will have Moslem believers talking to their Moslem brothers; Catholic believers will be talking to their Catholic brothers; Hindu believers will be talking to their Hindu brothers, etc. Who is better at proclaiming the gospel of Christ than those who know and understand the obstacles that face their brothers? Do you really think a Moslem would listen to a Protestant? Do you think a Jew would listen to a Baptist? Of course not! The 144,000 will come from every nation, religion, language and tribe and after their encounter with Jesus, they will receive the script and speak His words to their brothers, just like Saul did! This will ultimately produce what Jesus wants, a numberless multitude of saints who come from every nation, kindred, tongue and people!

Will the 144,000 know each other?

Probably not. The important thing is that no one will be able to say that their message was contrived by man. In other words, what is the possibility that a mere 144,000 people who are spread out over the face of Earth, speaking different languages, belonging to antagonistic religions, and not knowing one another, preach the same message with amazing authority? The chance is zero! This miracle will provide profound proof that their work and calling is divinely ordained. This simple miracle will also confound and offend the religious leaders of Earth.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI January 24
January 29, 2011, 04:36:42 PM
Again, all of that is based upon someone's research and interpretation of scriptures.  We can all bring up individual scriptures and place them here and there to get what we believe.  That is why there are so many "religions".  That comment above is about as far from what I've learned and researched as is any other.  But, that is what individual faith is about.  This is all about Michael and I think that he had a lot of personal issues in regards to his spirituality, and from numerous articles I've read, it continued up to his disappearance..(death lol).  It does us no good to try to guess his heart, nor to give our own opinion on religious beliefs as I could write books upon my beliefs as well as every one else and who is to say definitively which is correct and should be THE one to believe.  Just my opinion. LOVE
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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paula-c

Re: TIAI January 24
January 30, 2011, 07:37:49 PM
Quote
The test will be simple and will be applied without partiality. God will require everyone to leave his or her church for the sake of truth! The object of our deepest affection will then be revealed. At that time, some people will discover they loved their church more than they loved God! When a contest exists between "God’s truth" and "God’s church," then, and only then, can humans detect the distinction that exists between serving God and serving the church. Until this test of loyalty is applied, most people cannot understand the problem. Remember, in Jesus’ day, the Pharisees could not figure out how they could be as blind as Jesus claimed! The same is true today. A time is coming when God’s truth will conflict with the teachings of every church, and everyone will have to make tough choices. We will see that many people cannot separate themselves from their church, even when presented with the plainest evidences of truth.


This is absolutely the truth, many people who serve God or the church
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