Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

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Offline Sinderella

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Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 12, 2011, 11:25:18 AM
Following on from this post by purelove,I thought it should have a thread of it's own so it can be discussed instead of being mixed in with the YT action thread.
Even though this was out in 2010 and the campaign against it has been under way for some time,it is clearly still available to purchase on Amazon....so...let's see what we can do to get it removed.

Quote from: "PureLove"
Something else I want to share with you guys. We need to do something for this horrible book about Michael. This is disgusting! Pls check it out.

Michael Jackson's Dangerous Liaisons



http://http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1848763409/amazonbook021-20/ref=nosim?newgoozT=2010025&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Some facts info and links

Author:Carl Toms-WRONG! Carl Toms does not exist,well he did but he died in 1999.
Tom O'Carroll is who wrote this book.Convicted and already jailed PRO peadophilea capaigner and disgrace to society.



http://http://absolutezerounited.blogspot.com/2009/01/next-stage-of-negotiation.html

http://http://groups.google.com/group/uk.legal/browse_thread/thread/02cd4e9b85a40bf4?fwc=1

More paedophile propoganda from Brian Rothery @ Inquisition21.com
Quote
http://www.inquisition21.com/index.php? ... _user_op...

Another book is suppressed
Posted by: Editor on 10/23/2010 01:28 PM  
Ten days before its publication date, Michael Jackson s Dangerous Liaisons, written by Carl Toms, was withdrawn by Troubador Publishing when they became aware that the author s real name was Tom O Carroll.

Another book is suppressed
Ten days before its publication date, Michael Jackson s Dangerous Liaisons, written by Carl Toms, was withdrawn by Troubador Publishing when they became aware that the author s real name was Tom O Carroll.

Here is O Carroll s account of the incident: You may remember me saying at that time that I was keeping my fingers crossed that my real identity would not emerge until after the launch and after reviews had appeared.

Unfortunately, as you may have heard, Carl Toms was exposed online as Tom O'Carroll (with related judgements), just a couple of weeks ahead of the planned publication date. By that time the book had been printed, but publishers Troubador took fright. They immediately put out a statement disowning the title, saying they would no longer be involved in the distribution. Newspapers and broadcasters who had expressed an interest were left with the impression that the book itself had been aborted, with the result that they thought there was no product to review. Hence total media silence.

Tom O'Carroll had been imprisoned for his published views on paedophilia and for certain alleged activities including what could be regarded as taking legal photographs. The information exposed online about him was as destructive as could be and resulted in Troubador dropping his book.

This, however, did not prevent word about the book spreading. The largest group to hear about it and express their outrage was the Michael Jackson fan community, especially those known as fantards - a combination word of fan and retard . Their reactions included demands for the author s prosecution or his annihilation.

Those who looked a little closer would have realized that the new book had already earned the praise of such reviewers as Richard Green, Emeritus, Professor of Psychiatry, University of California, Professor Thomas K Hubbard, University of Texas at Austin and, one of the leading writers in the subject, Professor James R Kincaid, University of Southern California.

Hubbard wrote: Shows that the only real 'abuse' of children that occurred was not from Michael's bedroom horseplay, but parental manipulation of kids for financial gain. As such, this book gives us a profound cultural critique of received assumptions about childhood innocence, pedophilic 'power', and parental goodwill.

This erudite work is 640 pages in length and as the author is now distributing it himself is a little expensive at 22.50 new, but is also available for as little as 4 second hand on http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listin ... p_0?ie=U...
Amazon.

As a result of this latest book suppression and the general climate of censorship relating to any questioning of the dominant discourse, consideration is being given to an initiative to publish and promote the work of suppressed authors.

Created on 10/23/2010 01:25 PM by Editor
Updated on 10/23/2010 01:27 PM by Editor

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_O%27Carroll


Quote
http://http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120672
Maybe this is interesting to all Michael Jackson Fans. I know you guys know this already, but this deserves an own thread because its important to lots other outside of the fanship.

http://http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2379

a start to boycott it:
http://http://www.mj-777.com/?page_id=2282

http://http://books.google.com/books?id=ski...ackson&f=false.

the book:
http://http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackso.../dp/1848763409

I think it's a mess to use somebody's name on such a story who was proven not guilty and beside that it came out tom sneddon was faking fingerprints:
The Author Tom O'Carroll http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_O%27Carroll :

http://http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=19691681472&topic=22358
Action FB discussion

Quote
http://http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/node/817123

Thomas O'Carroll (Carl Tom), author of MJ'S DANGEROUS LIAISONS is a pedophile! ACTION NEEDED!

While looking for information on THOMAS O’CARROLL (aka CARL TOM), a self-confessed pedophile who suddenly became the talk of the internet as the author of an awfully slanderous book about Michael Jackson, I came across a wealth of documents showing that at exactly the same time when Michael was being trashed by British tabloids they were covering up for REAL pedophiles in Britain, who were not only involved in their pedophile ‘activities’ but were pressuring their ideas through O’Carroll to proliferate them in the British society.

It seems that the media needed to trash an innocent guy like Michael Jackson to divert public attention from a big group of pedophiles who permeated the British establishment even up to the government offices AND simultaneously prepare ground and public opinion for their triumphant emergence on the ‘official’ level – which is actually the cause Thomas O’Carroll has been championing for years.

This guy was one of the founders of the ‘accept-pedophiles’ movement and was indeed miraculously given numerous chances for propagating his ideas on a really wide scale. To name only a few of these chances:

In 1981 he successfully published his ‘academic’ study on pedophilia called “Paedophilia: Radical Case” where he advocated the idea of adult-child sexual relations being normal (the book is still being sold by Amazon.com).

In 2000 he was invited to the annual meeting in Paris of the International Academy of Sex Research by sexologist Richard Green who included O’Carroll’s book as recommended reading for his criminology students at Cambridge University. Incidentally the same sexologist is now recommending us to read this pedophile’s second book (about Michael Jackson), see here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... toms-book/.

In 2003 Thomas O’Carroll was a panelist in the TV discussion program After Dark, chaired by Baroness Helena Kennedy QC where he championed the rights of pedophiles with so much ardor that the fellow participant Esther Rantzen proposed that O’Carroll should be committed to a mental hospital. The Guardian described the show:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/ma ... oadcasting.

Up till now O’Carroll has been openly writing newsletters about pedophilia on their official site which gives free access to anyone willing to get familiar with their noble cause: http://www.ipce.info/newsletters/e_27/mj_1.htm.

And today he is emerging with his MOST LETHAL WEAPON – a book of lies about Michael Jackson, an innocent victim of their manipulation whose incredible popularity (or rather notoriety due to their joint concerted effort) is needed by them for using him as a ‘poster boy’ for furthering their cause. What an incredible and well-devised plan – first turn an innocent man into a ‘child molester’ and then use his incredible popularity to propagate their ideas among the public …
If Michael Jackson had he been alive he would have died again of the horror that they are throwing in his innocent name into support and legalization of child abuse as an accepted norm of human behavior - which was totally unthinkable for a pure guy like him.

Please note that I myself am NOT an advocate of conspiracy theories. It is just that I’ve found some facts which truly surprise me but at the same time do explain a couple of strange things going on – the primary of which is why a pedophile like Thomas O’Carroll is given a free hand and is going stronger now than ever…

For more information about Thomas O’Carroll see the thread: http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/node/402340

Or the source where the information for the thread was taken from:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... &sid=ae8...

The book by Tom O'Carroll:

http://www.ipce.info/host/radicase/biblio.htm

Amazon says it is a recommended read:

Review
"A recommended read. Not just another book about 'Wacko Jacko'. There won't be anything written quite like it."-- Richard Green, founding president, International Academy of Sex Research
(it was this Richard Green who recommended T.O'Carroll's "Pedophilia" book to his students at Cambridge University)

"His vivid and insightful commentary is a joy to read" -- DJ West, Emeritus Professor of Clinical Criminology.
(and Dr. West is a 'scholar' to whom Thomas O'Carroll is extending his deep gratitude in the preface to his "Pedophilia" book!)

WE NEED ACTION!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Sinderella

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 12, 2011, 11:52:32 AM
You can express your concern to the people at Amazon.com over their decision to sell books like Tom O'Carrolls "Paedophilia: The Radical Case and Michael Jackson's Dangerous Liaisons" at the following e-mails:

Quote
Amazon.coms board of directors:

jeffb@amazon.com
tom@madrona.com Tom Alberg, Madrona Venture Group

johnd@kpcb.com- John Doerr, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers
alain.monie@ingrammicro.com-Alain Monié, Ingram Micro Inc.
thomas.ryder@rd.com
Thomas Ryder, Reader's Digest Association, Inc.

ajassy@amazon.com- Andrew Jassy, Senior Vice President, Web Services
marco@amazon.com   - Marc Onetto, Senior Vice President, Worldwide Operations
shelleyr@amazon.com- Shelley Reynolds, Vice President, Wordwide Controller and Principal Accounting Officer

jeffreyw@amazon.com or
szkutak@amazon.com- Thomas Szkutak, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Other high-level Amazon.com staff:


selipsky@amazon.com- Adam Selipsky, Vice President

 freed@amazon.com   - Ian Freed, Vice President, Digital

 swheeler@amazon.com- Sam Wheeler, Director, Advertising & Partnerships
jvaria@amazon.com   - Jinesh Varia, Web Services Evangelist
awseditor@amazon.com- Mike Culver, Web Services Evangelist

jbarr@amazon.com   - Jeff Barr, Lead Web Services Evangelist
simone.brunozzi@gmail.com   - Simone Brunozzi, European Web Services Evangelist

A good way of contacting all of the e-mails above at once is by using your e-mail accounts Bcc function. You can do that by copying the following list (as it's shown) of e-mail addresses into the Bcc section when sending an e-mail:

jeffb@amazon.com, tom@madrona.com, johnd@kpcb.com, alain.monie@ingrammicro.com, potter.myrtle@gene.com, patty.stonesifer@gatesfoundation.org, webservicesresumes@amazon.com, seller-performance@amazon.com, payments-funds@amazon.com, ir@amazon.com, ajassy@amazon.com, marco@amazon.com, shelleyr@amazon.com, jeffreyw@amazon.com, szkutak@amazon.com, rabuchin@amazon.com, michellew@amazon.com, bcarr@amazon.com, cbodell@yahoo.com, jeff@vertexdev.com, simoneb@amazon.lu, simone.brunozzi@gmail.com
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Offline MissG

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 12, 2011, 01:29:07 PM
Everybody want to cash on Michael´s name  :| in a good or bad way.

Feels like a neverending task to trace those who want to benefit on Michael  :|
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Offline Sinderella

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 12, 2011, 05:32:37 PM
It's just outrageous,I was mad when I thought it was a book about him being accused and so on but to know it was written by someone who has been jailed for taking pictures of children and supports peadophiles and their behaviour makes me feel physically ill.

Again my question stands,why did the family and estate not stop this before it was set for release?
It shouldn't have ever got that far let alone have gone to print.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline trustno1

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 12, 2011, 05:54:48 PM
Makes me feel sick too.  Before the 25th June 2009 there were so many leeches, freeloaders, slimeballs and opportunists trying to make money from MJ, he would have been in court 24/7 every day of the year trying to fight them all off.  The fact that many of them actually got a payday from him because he couldn't be everywhere at once and he had a life to live is a travesty.  At least now we can do our little bit to help get rid of some of the scum who still try and use his name for their own gain.  Reading about these things makes me so damn angry so I can only imagine how MJ feels about it.  Thanks for the e-mail addresses Sinderella.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream.  And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.

Supervision

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 12, 2011, 11:28:43 PM
Some of us do  live in a "democratic"  world, where we enjoy the rights of freedom of speech.

 And the right of freedom of speech, is a right that gives people to express themselves freely without having to worry too much about censorship of their freedom to express themselves .
 
So, that said, since we all like to enjoy our very rights regarding such issues, we at the same time also  should do our utmost to   honor and respect other peoples  freedom of speech, to express themselves, no matter and in all instances included, even if  we may not agree with the contents of such a speech/thoughts etc. .
 
Re: the author of this book:

This author,Tom O'Carroll , being openly a pedophile is not hiding his sexual preference from the world .

The fact that this author has a criminal record, and that  himself had  transgressed the "man made laws" of the land regarding pedophilia, transgressed laws , that protect children from being sexually abused by adults , as such laws do happen to  be enforced in some  "civilized" nations,
 and he had, as  happened, was  fined for his transgression,however,that fact alone  does not make this man loose his right to free uncensored expression.imo.

As for this author  citing  MJ as a poster boy for pedophilia, despite of MJ having been cleared/acquitted  of all such accusation, and albeit the author himself claims that MJ was "a bad  poster boy for pedophilia"  for his organization,etc,  despite all of the above,
 I do  believe,and I am almost certain, that this  author does not exactly  live under a rock and does not know or have a clue who MJ is/was or has failed to estimate just who MJ is/was in this world.
 
Therefore, this author must know just how much power there is behind the lucrative  trade mark name of Michael Jackson,as well as  such powers litigating capacity, if need be,  for defamation of it's brand name.


If this author is just  spouting off his personal opinion,about MJ and pedophila, then as every fool knows opinions are not facts. :roll:

 But if this man on the other hand did calculate his pro and con and was willing to stand behind his story,'research" as he calls it,  then, imo. he, as well as the next man living under any free society ,  should have an equal  right to tell his story without being pressured by people who just happen not to like "his story" about their hero , the beloved star Michael Jackson.

Is his book all about  slander, is it  libel against MJ and his legacy, is it exploitative of MJ's past "problems"? to gain exposure for his own movement etc...
.all types of  questions such as those, should imo. concern MJ's family and MJ's estate,fully staffed with high powered attorneys  ,
to undertake a counter lawsuit against this 'defamer"  with a vengeance, if they can prove that he is indeed a defamer and his story is all based on lies etc.
 
All other efforts to block this author and his literary work,  etc.  I feel are based more or less on the  emotions/love  of the fans,for MJ imo.,
 and though I do believe,  that it is not at all  wrong to try to vindicate Mike's name where ever  possible,and where it may be appropriate also etc., ....

it is also  incumbent upon every one of us MJ fans imo.  to also not  forget, nor should we ever be willing to  dishonor and disrespect the rights that other people also have  to exercise their  freedom of speech.
 just my 2cents..

Peace.
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Offline Sinderella

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 13, 2011, 06:35:45 AM
Quote
Some of us do live in a "democratic" world, where we enjoy the rights of freedom of speech.
And the right of freedom of speech, is a right that gives people to express themselves freely without having to worry too much about censorship

I'm sorry but I completley disagree with you Supervision.
I do believe in freedom of speech,what just happened in Egypt is an amazing example of how it can change history and be used for good.Everyone is entitled to freedom of speech,but there is no freedom of speech or rights deserved when it comes to the abuse of innocent children who are supposed to trust adults and feel safe.
Absolutley none.
This man took pictures and sold them to a peadophile who carried them around with him and was jailed for it.
If one of those was your child,would you have the same opinion?That he has a right to voice his opinion and be an active campaigner for the sick minded?
Pretty sure you would want him burned at the stake.

Associating himself and his book with Michael is wrong.
He was found not guilty,they had no proof of anything and 5years after that fact this book should not have been allowed.

Did you read all the links and articles?
You would have read a quote from his book if you had,suggesting that if a little girl sits on a mans knee and has her legs apart and the man has peadophile tendencies he will see this as suggestive behaviour from the girl'
SERIOUSLY?
This man does not have a right to freedom of speech IMO,he is sick and as someone in the mental health industry said he neededs to be in an institute.

Quote
Is his book all about slander, is it libel against MJ and his legacy, is it exploitative of MJ's past "problems"? to gain exposure for his own movement etc...

Look at the front cover!!!!
It is a man in a jacket,in a fedora,with a sparkly glove with his hand on the childs shoulder and it is called Dangerous Liaisons.
That is slander in itself.Suggestive visual aids that promote the idea in one's head that that on the cover is supposed to be MJ,with a child having some sort of 'liaison' is exploiting his past 'problems'.
Who gives a shit if it is being used to gain exposure for his own disgusting movement,he is using Michael's name,image and past problems to make a profit.
The Estate own everything to do with Michael,inc his image and name being used.
The cover and title clearly indicate who this is about.
They are quick enough to take companies down who sell shirts which aren't official and use his image/name and aren't made by Bravado so why not this book which has both on?
It is a blatent attempt to associate Michael with this circle of people.
Why not call it 'Gary Glitter-Dangerous Liaisons'??
A man who is currently serving more time in prison for his crimes against children and has a record and known history of being a peadophile.A man who IS GUILTY and does associate with that circle.
Because no one would read it?GG's name doesn't hold the $$$$ that Michael's does.
Because everyone already knows what Gary Glitter does and it's confirmed,where as with Michael people still have doubts about him which makes for a far better selling strategy.
Should Michael's children have to see this being on sale?
They have to deal with enough don't you think?
The man went through his trial,came out a free and innocent man and that is the end of it.
Funny this book came out after June 25th 2009,when Michael himself can't really do anything about it isn't it,not only is the person who wrote it sick in the head,a liar and have a criminal record for taking pictures of children and selling them but he is also a coward and only brought it out after he thought Michael had died.
What a vile excuse for a human being.


This is not about 'freedom of speech' and everyone being allowed to have that right
it is about slander,using Michael's name and image to gain a profit from his belief that being a peadophile is okay and lies,Michael never had 'dangerous liaisons' with any child and that was proven in a court of law.

I for one am extremley disturbed by the entire thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline trustno1

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 13, 2011, 06:57:51 AM
Me too and I also disagree with you Supervision, freedom of speech has to have a limit, otherwise the shelves would feature all kinds of hate-filled rhetoric and slander.  This person may not offend you personally but in my view anyone who is a paedophile and not only that openly admits it as a lifestyle choice and tries to profit from it using the name of a completely innocent star (would he have gotten away with it with any other person, living or dead?) should forfeit their freedom of speech just as they should forfeit their right to living alongside decent human beings who see such people as the ultimate evil.  Don't get me wrong, for some paedophiles actually do know what they do is evil and actually turn to self-castration as a means of freeing themselves from what can only be described as almost a kind of demonic possession, I have seen articles on this subject.  It's the ones who continue to see nothing wrong in their behaviour and almost embrace it that deserve to forfeit their freedom of speech.  Saying everyone no matter what they say should have that human right is something that we hear from do-gooders who believe in the softly-softly approach which in my opinion does not work.  There is enough hate and evil in the world without encouraging it.
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Offline MissG

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 13, 2011, 08:18:09 AM
Quote from: "Supervision"
Some of us do  live in a "democratic"  world, where we enjoy the rights of freedom of speech.

 And the right of freedom of speech, is a right that gives people to express themselves freely without having to worry too much about censorship of their freedom to express themselves .
 

So, we, I,  take that freedom of speech to shut up the man who wrote the book using Michael´s name just to increase the sales of a book that has nothing to do with Michael but with himself and his views on pedofilia.

Let´s not confuse freedom of speech with opportunism to shove in to people´s heads that pedofilia is "an ok" thing putting Michael as the example because 1st of all, Michael is not a pedo and second this man has his own agenda on making pedofilia legal and accepted by society.

To talk with children about sexuality from a didactic point of view is not having sex with a child.

Thanks that we have evolved understanding that a child has the right to be a child and develop in different stages within their sexuality, discovering themselves in an assertive and healthy manner that their minds can understand and learning to know their bodies at the right time with the right approach. We are living in the present times where human rights protect those in disadvantage and one part of it is to protect children from adults with mental disorders as pedos have. We are not living in the past where girls were forced to get married with older men and that was "acceptable", even if in some parts of the world still those relations are existing. We have a long road to go to make children have their rights and being protected and guys like this, writing like this, just intereferes on the process.

The freedom of speech of this man stops where my freedom of speech starts and I am not the type who will tolerate and old crappy sick man to destroy a 6 year old girl or boy , or any child at any age because he is disturbed and sees the situation "totally normal".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Supervision

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 14, 2011, 08:36:44 AM
Quote
by Sinderella » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:35 am
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you Supervision.

O.k. ...disagreements are cool, if they open the way for all of us to respectfully discuss any issue at hand.
 So I welcome your disagreement with me.
as well as the other two posters
 posters trustno1 »  
Gema
»
So this answer post is to all of you.

But, and a very important but, I would like to make it clear here, that  the topic and the emphasis I was trying to point out in my initial post as well as here again, is the particular issue concerning the first amendments rights of the  freedom of speech of the individual(U.S.A constitution).

If the unfortunate subject “smack in the middle”  just happen to be our beloved MJ or not, would not make me change my mind about what I truly understand about this indispensable liberty of  the individual,
 i.e.  the freedom to speak without censorship/threat etc.......


Quote
by Sinderella »
I do believe in freedom of speech.
Everyone is entitled to freedom of speech,but there is no freedom of speech or rights deserved when it comes to the abuse of innocent children who are supposed to trust adults and feel safe.
Absolutley none.

O.k. now it is time for me to state here, while I, as a mother myself , do understand where you are coming from, I wholeheartedly still must disagree with you, especially concerning  your views as stated  in your contradictory statement above.
 I.e. you say...“everyone is entitled to freedom of speech...but there is no freedom of speech when it comes to innocent children etc etc.” .

My own  disagreement with your views ,(all) however,  in no way at all  to be understood as if  I were  “supporting” the act of pedophilia, or endorsing such an act, nor am I stating here that MJ is possibly  not being “exploited” by this particular author or even probably slandered as you put it,
 but my issue and my concern is, to repeat, only  to highlight the importance I hold about the liberty we call “freedom of speech” .

Thus the argument I will post now will mostly carry such support for my disagreement with your particular  view of liking freedom of speech, but at the same time, insisting an absolute curtailing/revoking of such rights  to such  freedom of speech, for “certain individuals” ,
and even categories,
 i.e. in this case, an author who wishes to discuss about the taboo subject of pedophilia, which in your view harms children and their rights to safety from harm  etc.
So here we go with what I got to say ..... :roll:

The Book
Michael Jackson's Dangerous Liaisons:

Quote
by Sinderella »
Associating himself and his book with Michael is wrong.

He was found not guilty,they had no proof of anything and 5years after that fact this book should not have been allowed.

My notes:
I believe , that the book has a clearly  targeted audience , and is not meant for people who  already have absolute  conviction of Mike and his innocence regarding anything to do with pedophilia,besides the other stated objective of inviting open discussions of the “taboo” subject of pedophilia itself.
.
Targeted audience of the book


Troubador Publishing Ltd, 2010 - Family & Relationships - 630 pages
A must-read for those who believe he truly loved children but are not so sure about his innocence.

My notes concerning as the book touches MJ and the issue of pedophilia:

Every person in this world,  who is/may  really be  that much  interested to know about the very highly  personal issue of MJ’s  sexual life,and is really “dyeing” to find out more and more about , whether Mike KOP, a celebrity of public personality, did in real fact,actually  did “ do the kids” or not, and still harbors  a significant doubt about Michael’s “total”  innocence,despite of MJ aquittal of all charges of pedophila in a court of law,  most certainly has or should have every  right to read an  alternative view presented by all those who claim to have an view to be presented for an consideration imo.

. After such people/readers ,willingly  spend their own money voluntarily for the privilege of  reading such an alternative view, can thereafter  make up their own minds and come to their own conclusion.
 
This way, the way I see it,  there is no violation of personal liberties neither a  coercion/suppression  of the free flow of information exchange /liberties of anyone involved, as it concerns the two parties involved.

Now as to the third party in this above story, i.e. the “subject” of the book  himself ,  of such a  dissertation/writing ,In this case Michael Jackson,  being , exposed to “unfounded” allegations,  or “exploited ‘ for personal gain,etc ,  and thereby sustaining hurts and damages, through such action as stated above, the law has also provided ample means and ways,through the defamation laws, to protect the liberty of such subject, by the means of open litigation , in an attempt to aright such  perceived wrongs .
In the case of MJ, if ‘deceased” then his lawful executors of his estate,if they detect a violation of MJ’s rights and liberties, possess all rights in turn to  take up such contention in a lawful manner as provide by the law..  


Re:The well intentioned “protest” of MJ fans and friends  to block the book
..
My notes:
The great possible harm as I see it, in the suggested  efforts to “block” circulation of this book or any other for that matter, with which’s content we happen to disagree with, is the great risk and  the real  possible harm of violating our free-speech ideals.

Re: Why such book  as this one ( openly discussing a taboo subject such as  pedophilia)  should be allowed to stand/circulate anywhere within  where it may find readership, and get its options/presentations   heard by all those who wish to consider what it has to offer or instruct.

 My notes:
This book in particular, first of all,imo. could be conducive to start an open discussion on the “taboo” subject  pedophilia itself,wich I think is a good thing in and of itself,(the discussion I mean),  and in fact it seems it has already broken grounds in that direction as it fosters intelligent discussions and “academic” arguments pro and con etc. among academicians and scholars and thinkers etc..as is to be evidenced by it’s reviews.. ;)

Current categorization of the human  sexual expression called pedophilia by APAS

Oseran, Laurie, American Psychiatric Association Statement: Diagnostic Criteria for Pedophilia; http://www.psych.org, June 17, 2003
Pedophilia, included in the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) since 1968, continues to be classified as a mental disorder.

“progressive” academic  arguments”

O'Keefe, Mark, Some in mainstream contend certain cases of adult-minor sex should be acceptable, Newhouse News Service, Star Tribune [Minneapolis, Minnesota], March 26, 2002

Sex between adults and children has been a societal taboo so strong that it's considered one of our few unquestioned moral principles.
But arguments have emerged in academic journals, books and online that at least some such sex should be acceptable, especially when children consent to it.


Those making the case aren't just fringe groups, such as the North American Man-Boy Love Association, but a handful of academics at mainstream universities. [...]
The academic debate has begun to find its way into more popular culture.

What is happening in the real world of children and SEX  ?
Actual case studies ..what is happening with teenagers still classified as “children” ,and their emphasis/choice of expressing their sexual feelings/ “desires” .
.....
Oprah.com, A New Kind of Spin the Bottle; From the show Dr. Phil on Alarming Sexual Behavior Among Children

Times have changed: children as young as twelve are having oral sex. It's not just the "fast kids," either; it's the clean-cut ones, too.
 According to a survey by Seventeen, 55% of teenagers have tried oral sex. Find out about this new teenage trend.

Re: Why censorship of this book is not a good idea.

My notes:
This sort of coercive move to suppress freedom of speech and self expression, is  very dangerous and  stifling to men and women who live in free and  “democratic” societies in which they have rights and  freedom to exercise such rights,

 as well as, such a dictatorial/suppressive  move,   also carries great potential within it,  to invite tyrannical behavior to be  imposed by the views of the majority or in the “alternative” the imposition of  so called “societal norms”   as they are to be found in the various human societies of the world,  and their taboos and privileges etc on the minority  ,
within such a ‘free”  society..
....
Quotes to support/reinforce  wht I mean to say above:
(example of  terrorism used here.)..
“Since the ends always justify the means, if the end were to beat the terrorists, with total disregard for other human values, such as truth, liberty, justice and democracy, the US would be justified in its actions.

However, as we all should know by now, not even life is preferable to liberty, nor victory preferable to justice, nor happiness preferable to truth, nor majoritarian satisfaction preferable to guarantee of minority rights.

http://volokh.com/posts/1134089659.shtm

http://ourcivilisation.com/cooray/rights/chap6.htm#6.1

6.1 Importance Of Freedom Of Speech And Expression

The importance of free speech as a basic and valuable characteristic of western society cannot be underestimated.
As well as emphasizing the value of free speech, it is proposed to make an evaluation of some of the traditional restrictions on what may be freely said or published, such as the defamation laws, contempt of court, national security and so on.

The approach is one which makes the case for free speech, since the world is now a place where people's unfettered freedoms are by and large in retreat.

 One of the difficulties inherent in discussing freedom of speech is that it contains what libertarians often describe as the paradox of freedom.

 The classical exposition of this paradox was described by John Stuart Mill in his essay
On Liberty in Utilitarianism Etc
: (London, 1910) p 83
". . . there ought to exist the fullest liberty of professing and discussing, as a matter of ethical conviction, any doctrine, however immoral it might be considered."

In other words, unless we ensure to the enemies of freedom the liberties which they are keen to abuse, then we deny the essence of what we ultimately stand for and are therefore no better than those to whom we are opposed.
 Or as Voltaire has been paraphrased,
 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

On a more practical plane, freedom of speech serves many functions.
 One of its most important functions is that decision-making at all levels is preceded by discussion and consideration of a representative range of views.

A decision made after adequate consultation is likely to be a better one which less imperfectly mirrors the opinions, interests and needs of all concerned, than a decision taken with little or no consultation.

Thus freedom of speech is important at all levels in society. Yet it is most important for government.

 A government which does not know what the people feel and think is in a dangerous position.

The government that muzzles free speech ,runs a risk of destroying the creative instincts of its people.

Freedom of speech involves toleration of a great deal of nonsense, and even of matters which are in bad taste.

There are those, among them notably Justice Douglas of the American Supreme Court,
who have argued for near absolute freedom of speech,
 and against the restrictions based on many of the common exceptions.
In Roth v US 354 US 476 (1957) a case about obscenity, Justice Douglas said in dissent:
"The test of obscenity the Court endorses today gives the censor free range over a vast domain.

To allow the State to step in and punish mere speech or publication that the Judge or jury thinks has an undesirable impact on thoughts but that is not shown to be part of unlawful action is drastically to curtail the First Amendment."

It must be realized that what constitutes bad taste or discrimination or offensiveness is to a very great extent subjective.

The folly of the increasing practice, in recent times, of placing censorship powers in the hands of bureaucrats and tribunals is illustrated by the manner in which the works of authors like D H Lawrence were banned from sale.

 Even recently the Chief Commonwealth Film Censor banned a Brazilian film by Hector Babenco portraying the desperate hand-to-mouth existence of a Brazilian boy from being shown at the Sydney Film Festival on the grounds of child abuse, even though it was the first censoring since 1969 of a film entered for the Melbourne or Sydney Film Festivals.
After an outcry from the directors of both Festivals, the ban was overruled by the Films Board of Review.
The film, titled Pixote, was shown and voted the best film by the Film Festival subscribers.
 
Larger problems arise where some people call for groups such as National Action to be made illegal as tending to encourage racism.
In a recent incident at a University, where National Action had set up some tables to distribute literature, tables were overturned and groups of students shouted against racism.
Those who attempt to resort to such tactics to stifle presentation of an opposing view give the impression that reason and logic are not on their side.

Freedom of speech has as its necessary corollary the expression of a wide range of views, some of which of course will be unpalatable, or clearly wrong.
But the alternative of placing the agenda for public discussion in the hands of paternalistic bureaucrats (who as human beings will be fallible and have subjective views and personal prejudices) whose rulings often cannot or can only with difficulty and cost be reviewed in the courts, is increasingly becoming the norm.

It is an undesirable and unfortunate trend.
6.2 The Racial Discrimination Act Amendments
One of the thorniest issues that has arisen in recent times is that of the proposed amendments to the Racial Discrimination Act by the Human Rights Commission which would:
. . . make it unlawful for a person to publicly utter or publish words which, having regard to all the circumstances, are 'likely to result' in hatred, intolerance or violence against a person or group of persons, distinguished by race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin. (emphasis added)

While some may find this a laudable weapon against racists, this is yet another serious restriction upon free speech.

What the amendment really strikes at is hurtful speech or wounding words.
For example, if somebody publicly said,
 "Aboriginals are just lazy drunks", it is likely that such a person could be prosecuted under the Act.
Such a statement is a deplorable generalization, no more applicable to aboriginals than any other race or nationality.
 But why give the statement any more treatment than it deserves — simply to be ignored?
Doubtless, many aboriginals may feel deeply hurt by such a comment
. But what mature person expects to pass through life without having wounding words spoken to him or her?
http://ourcivilisation.com/cooray/rights/chap6.htm#6.1

It is difficult to imagine anything more ludicrous than the Human Rights Commission making judgments about whether something is a work of art, whether a public discussion is bona fide, or whether a report is genuinely scientific.
It is not just ludicrous. It reeks of all of the classical dangers of censorship.

Mill's famous principle that it is only the prevention of harm to others which justifies the state in restricting our voluntary conduct — a principle derived from Kant — has always caused practical problems because of the vagueness of the notion of harm.
Some have attempted to give a "Millian" justification for the proposed anti-racist and defamation laws under discussion on the ground that the restrictions they introduce are motivated by a desire to prevent harm; the deep feeling of hurt in having one's racial ancestry denigrated, or the dignity and embarrassment of having what one thought were private shames publicized.
But plainly this is not good enough.
As Mill himself once wrote:
..it must by no means be supposed, because damage, or probability of damage, to the interests of others, can alone justify the interference of society, that therefore it always does justify such interference.


In many cases, an individual, in pursuing a legitimate object, necessarily and therefore legitimately causes pain or loss to others, or intercepts a good which they had a reasonable hope of obtaining.
— John Stuart Mill, On Liberty in Utilitarianism Etc
(London, 1910) p 75.

The issue is thus not whether some people are profoundly hurt by what others are now permitted to say and write freely, but rather whether this hurt is so great as to justify curtailing by law the present right to do things which may produce it.


The issue is not whether people engage in ethnic defamation and outrageous intrusions of privacy.
 It is whether, and if so in what circumstances, the real hurt that such people can and do sometimes produce is a sufficiently great evil to justify further curtailing that freedom of expression for which Voltaire, Milton, and Mill spoke so eloquently and passionately.
I do not believe it is. Those who take the view I have just endorsed will of course, be called fallaciously racists or friends of racists, and disrespecters of privacy.
 It has not changed since that time of Mill who, in the same essay, wrote:
The worst offense . . . which can be committed by a polemic is to stigmatize those who hold the contrary opinion as bad and immoral men.

 To calumny of this sort, those who hold any unpopular opinion are peculiarly exposed, because they are in general few and influential, and nobody but themselves feels much interest in seeing justice done them; ...
 unmeasured vituperation employed on the side of the prevailing opinion really does deter people from professing contrary opinions, ,
and from listening to those who express them.


O.k. people that is my honest and well considered opinion, come hell or high water LOL,  as regarding this issue of this wretched  man being "allowed" to  exercising his own rights to express his views on the subject of his own choice, which just happens to be the terrible terrible "taboo" called pedophilia and our MJ as I said smack in the middle..
But, wretched  or not though,  nevertheless I personally was intrigued  to see , obviously Amazon agrees also, since as the largest book store in the world, it  seems  they are particular concerned also  about the rights of "certain" suppressed authors
 .
And I do so commend all the brave  scholars and thinkers also, who actually put their names down as reviewers of this highly 'taboo"  material that long  needed some sort of airing inviting serious studies and the installment of fair and just laws for all concerned including perhaps the  children/teenagers themselves, and their own respective  rights to express a part of their own needs.
i.e.their  Sexuality.???  ;)
 
 Peace
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Offline PureLove

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 15, 2011, 12:10:34 PM
How about starting a petition against this book?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline PureLove

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 15, 2011, 08:17:12 PM
I think I need to bump this post as I feel something needs to be done. I do not get why the family is not doing anything but we need to do something. A petition can work? What do you guys think about it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

RunFaYaLife

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 15, 2011, 08:21:35 PM
Quote
I think I need to bump this post as I feel something needs to be done. I do not get why the family is not doing anything but we need to do something. A petition can work? What do you guys think about it?

What can they do?
It's a free country. Besides it is obvious they have a lot
more on their plate than to run around looking for little fires to put out.
They have BIG ones to worry about right now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Supervision

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 03:54:35 AM
Quote
by PureLove » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:17 pm

I think I need to bump this post as I feel something needs to be done.

Why ,imo....the question begs itself, why do you  feel at all that something needs to be done here about this book?
 ;)
Is it because you love MJ and want to protect him from any and all  perceived “slander” issueing forth from all any and all  peoples in this whole  whole world, an impossible task? :?

Here is a few excerpts from Amazon .com review pages, what other people may have to say about this issue and I do agree with their views...pls read if interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Having-read-this- ... 1848763409
I argue my right in a democracy to access facts and informed debate, not to be bullied or abused or sidetracked by fear and ignorance.

Why are you so concerned that nobody is to know anything about pedophilia and incest, or to develop effective management of the problem, assuming it is a problem.

I raise the question again, and will continue to do so.

What is your reason for seeking to deny others any clear knowledge and understanding about what actually happened between Michael Jackson and the boys in his life?

In short, what are you trying to hide?

Quote
by PureLove »
I do not get why the family is not doing anything but we need to do something.
You got  that right ,and you sure are asking the correct question here btw.,
 that it is MJ’s family that is responsible for these type of action and not MJ fans at all imo.

We MJ fans can continue to  love MJ and uphold his legacy in plenty of positive ways ,
other than going around making a fuss,  about how who could come together and  shut peoples mouth,to prevent them form saying what they got to say about Mike .

it is already a known/documented fact through out the world,  that Mike stood trial 2005 and was acquitted of all child molestation charges.

 But if some people still harbor doubts about the verdict,and how it may have been 'obtained" etc etc.   and still wish to look into the matter further, in their own way and means, then who is to say, that people  have no right to do so.
 
To repeat again,imo.
These sort of moves of coercion by the fans, to block this book and others like it,  are plain wrong viz other peoples rights of freedom of  expression, besides it probably also  being unlawful to boot,with a very high possibility of Violating people First Amendment Rights at least the way it is here in the good old U.S.A. .

 
Let us consider for instance ,  if other people were to  get the same sort of  idea, and rise up/band together to shut down our voices here on this forum, about our theories , and investigation into MJ's life as we all do here, ,

 after all, the whole  world was  more than just  notified by MJ's family going all out with a public memorial for their deceased keen , and with and added televised funeral of MJ's burial  included, to affirm to all who would listen, that the man is dead and gone.

So, after all of that was done by MJ and family etc..Is there a possibility, that our no stone unturned type of  investigation into MJ's death and life too,could insult and offend some people including his mother and his kids ?

I have no doubt in my mind that our actions too hurt and offends other people, who do not hold these sort of opinion about MJ hiding and hoaxing his death.
But, if that be so, then,  even the non believers nor MJ’s family nor Estate, to date , has come forward to shut this forum down,

I believe all people who don't like the hoax talk , it is possible, could have really refrained themselves from attempting to shut it down, and thereby respecting everyones'  rights to think what they  wished to think and express them selves freely and publicly without   incurring all sorts of pressure and threats etc..

Well, btw. one fitting example of disgruntled people taking matters into their own hands  maybe, the hacking of this forum just recently.
 
It seems to me ,LOL,  it is  more than likely, some ignorant people may have had the bright idea to shut people's mouth about all this talk about the hoax of MJ's death with which they themselves do not agree?,

It is safe to say not too many of us liked a move like that, regardless whoever done the dirty deed..

and  what ever reason it may have been done, if the forum had remained down, then we have had for sure lost at least this one particular venue to speak our minds freely about our own hoax ideas etc. .

 
Quote
A petition can work? What do you guys think about it?

Well, as for me , I have already written about what I think in my previous  post above in this same thread..
Those are my thoughts,concerning this whole matter,  ...but of course, it remains still, all are free to do as they wish, and it goes without saying,
 it is left up to everyone to go do what they think is best still.

Quote
by RunFaYaLife » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:21 pm
What can they do?
It’s a free country.


Thank  you very much, you darn right it is a free country LOL. ;)  
 and it should be free for  all to speak their minds too imo.
All people including MJ fans , who wish not to read the book, have a clear choice not to buy it.
 
That is a real legitimate and effective protest imo. that all MJ fans can exercise on their part, if they wish not to hear what this man has to say at all,
without also going around trying to prevent other people from exercising their  free choices of reading this  book, or viewing any other form of artistic expression, that may carry a possible "negative" content in it about MJ. etc.
.  
Quote
by RunFaYaLife »
Besides it is obvious they have a lot
more on their plate than to run around looking for little fires to put out.
They have BIG ones to worry about right now.

My take is ,I really do doubt it, that the family or the Estate even worries too much about  this book as being some sort of fire to be put out by all means necessary.  
I believe all the parties concerned know about the book, but they also  know and understand, that they ,or no one else either for that matter, can possibly shut people's  personal opinion about MJ and pedophilia, in  the court of  public opinion ,  no matter what/or how they wished they could.
As for  MJ's Estate attorneys ,even if they do not like the book ,  , they know full and well, they will be laughed out of court ,
even if they would do such a thing as to run  and file a suit to dam this book , thereby trying to  block and step on this man's rights of free speech, including the rights of his potential readers as well..

Peace.
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Offline MissG

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 05:07:16 AM
*reminder to answer @supervision later*  :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Supervision

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 05:28:50 AM
@Gema..
LOL, Gema,seems like I got lost or something and wound up over here lol,  :lol:
fussing with this issue of KICKING ASS or Hitting Folks in the Mouth
 or what ever wild wild west kinda thingy  ;) imo. lol.. :lol:
lol..

 WEll, me thinkes right about now,..
I should really try to find my way back to our LA LA land Visions from Michael , where everything,
and I mean
Everrry thing in this whole UNIVERSE  is PERMITTED to be spoken/dreamed  about by any and all  :lol:   .
.
Now that is the kind of place FREEDOM of SPEECH is perfectly respected.... ha ha.. :lol:
Peace. .
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Offline Sarahli

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 05:51:26 AM
Public opinion, or opinions is/are not the Truth. At some point there is only one Truth because the Truth is not bendable according to a person's personal beliefs or opinions. I have no clue as to what this book contains but just the cover is misleading and obvioulsy biased or maybe it's just me? Now I don't think we should take action because this would give them more "fame", i did not know this book existed so i think and it's my opinion that it should be better to not make them known more than they already are and i don't know to what extent. The Truth will come out big time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Offline Sinderella

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 11:13:15 AM
@Supervision

If your going to try and quote me or make it sound like you are quoting me or having a dig at the way I go about things
Quote
@Gema..
LOL, Gema,seems like I got lost or something and wound up over here lol, :lol:
fussing with this issue of KICKING ASS or Hitting Folks in the Mouth
or what ever wild wild west kinda thingy
Please do so accurately.
If you don't like how I talk or post,that is your problem.
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Offline MissG

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 02:51:48 PM
Quote from: "Supervision"
@Gema..
LOL, Gema,seems like I got lost or something and wound up over here lol,  :lol:
fussing with this issue of KICKING ASS or Hitting Folks in the Mouth
 or what ever wild wild west kinda thingy  ;) imo. lol.. :lol:
lol..

 WEll, me thinkes right about now,..
I should really try to find my way back to our LA LA land Visions from Michael , where everything,
and I mean
Everrry thing in this whole UNIVERSE  is PERMITTED to be spoken/dreamed  about by any and all  :lol:   .
.
Now that is the kind of place FREEDOM of SPEECH is perfectly respected.... ha ha.. :lol:
Peace. .

I am not relly understanding what do you mean.

However, I am curious to know the reason why you believe that such book should be using Michael´s name when is clear that the author just wants to use Michael´s name for publicity. He could use Roman polasnki i.e, who has been proven to have sex with a girl under 16.

Michael´s love for children was not sexual and this author is twisting Michael´s actions in to something Michael never did. The picture of the cover is misleading as I believe the whole book is.

If this author wants to write about his sick mind, is fine with me, but not using the name of Michael to cash some bucks extra.

He is entitled to write his book, sure, sick people also can print words in paper, but this would not make his words, views or convictions factual or accepted for society in which I include myself.

In "my world" there is no room for children rapists or adults abusing the innocence of children and my mission as a capable adult is to protect them from predators.

Michael was proclaimed innocent and this author wants to prove him guilty as a cover up for his own agenda.

Michael is not a child molester, Michael does not look at kids with sexual eyes, this man apparently does and writes about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Offline PureLove

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Re: Michael Jackson-Dangerous Liaisons Book by C.Toms

  • on: February 16, 2011, 08:27:24 PM
@supervision

A free country and everyone can say anything ideology doesn't include to spread hate and lies about someone. They spread lies and we sit and watch them to do so? We can not allow everyone to speak the lies about us or about our loved ones all the time. If you want to let it go, I respect your opinion but we're talking about what we can do about the book here. Now if you allow us, I would like us to focus on what we can do instead of focusing on the why we need to do it.

Sindrella, Gema and all others who want to do something about this book; do you have any opinion if a petition can work for this? Or what else can we do about it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »