It's also possible that...

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Offline Cameron

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It's also possible that...

  • on: February 13, 2011, 06:54:18 PM
Hi everybody !

I was discussing with a friend about the Death Hoax, he is not a believer but respects my opinion. I like to talk about MJ and the Death Hoax with him because he can deliver me a neutral opinion on it. He believes at 55% that Michael is dead, so he has a doubt. :)

But he told me 2 theories so I post them here so you can tell what you think:

- We (the believers) have the opinion that the Death is planned, cause maybe it is. It can be planned because Michael Jackson wanted a Great and Spectacular death.
   So maybe Michael planned it in his Testament to have a good and mediatic death, so we can remember him and have a great legend.

- The Death Hoax is a Hoax peddled by the family and sony to make money, maintain the legend and so continue to sell albums, to keep dreaming the fans, etc...

I believe in some theories showing he's not dead. But I read all arguments: those proving the Hoax, and those proving the Death. I believe 70% he's not dead.
But the two theories my friend told me are possible, so what do you think ?

What can you say to show to my friend he's wrong ? It's not to be vicious, but the discuss, debate, and proving that it's a hoax ! :)

Thanks !
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Offline happythoughts

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 13, 2011, 07:29:06 PM
I think the first one could be true. :)
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Offline bec

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 12:28:04 AM
The presence of Dr. Murray indicates a come back simply by virtue... Murray's "guilt" has been alluded to from the get go. If Michael simply wanted a spectacular "death" (ie exit from the public eye) there is no need to implicate an innocent party in an alleged manslaughter situation. What's the point when there are so many choices of spectacular accidental ways to die that don't involve anyone being to blame? To involve a Dr. is messy, especially for the Dr. If court were real (which this theory implies) this guy could go to prison if Michael didn't come back. Murray's existence in this hoax proves the comeback.

The family could be responsible for perpetuating a portion of the hoax as a hoax itself or as a private wish granted to Michael as part of his will... but this theory only addresses a minute portion of the inaccuracies that exist. The family wasn't in charge of LAPD not securing the scene at Carrolwood for 2 days, nor would they have control over the 911 operator hanging up on the caller, nor the timing of the call, nor the blatent timeline contradictions in phone records and witness reports that the authorities seem to ignore. The family also, in all their influence and power, would not be able to prevent Paris from actually shedding tears during her tearful speech at the memorial. The family also isn't in charge of placing toys in the court room or making Murray's court dates 70 days apart each time or make them occur on the same days at MJ's court dates from 2005. The family also didn't make the "body" look like a surfboard coming out of the helicopter, nor did they make the ambulance driver forget how to back out of a driveway. Nor did the family cause MJ to time warp back to 1987 to pose for that pic and then sell it to ET. There are so many other things that the family could not have influence over, too many to list here, it really is a landslide of info.

Your friend has good starter theories but they are spoken of one who has not scratched the surface of the situation. They are good rabbit holes though, and in following them, one is bound to simply stumble and land face first into hoax.
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RunFaYaLife

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 12:57:05 AM
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The Death Hoax is a Hoax peddled by the family and sony to make money, maintain the legend and so continue to sell albums, to keep dreaming the fans, etc...

That one has occurred to me as well.

IMO it is really simple.....follow the money.
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Offline heisinme09

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 02:42:32 AM
Quote from: "bec"
The presence of Dr. Murray indicates a come back simply by virtue... Murray's "guilt" has been alluded to from the get go. If Michael simply wanted a spectacular "death" (ie exit from the public eye) there is no need to implicate an innocent party in an alleged manslaughter situation. What's the point when there are so many choices of spectacular accidental ways to die that don't involve anyone being to blame? To involve a Dr. is messy, especially for the Dr. If court were real (which this theory implies) this guy could go to prison if Michael didn't come back. Murray's existence in this hoax proves the comeback.

The family could be responsible for perpetuating a portion of the hoax as a hoax itself or as a private wish granted to Michael as part of his will... but this theory only addresses a minute portion of the inaccuracies that exist. The family wasn't in charge of LAPD not securing the scene at Carrolwood for 2 days, nor would they have control over the 911 operator hanging up on the caller, nor the timing of the call, nor the blatent timeline contradictions in phone records and witness reports that the authorities seem to ignore. The family also, in all their influence and power, would not be able to prevent Paris from actually shedding tears during her tearful speech at the memorial. The family also isn't in charge of placing toys in the court room or making Murray's court dates 70 days apart each time or make them occur on the same days at MJ's court dates from 2005. The family also didn't make the "body" look like a surfboard coming out of the helicopter, nor did they make the ambulance driver forget how to back out of a driveway. Nor did the family cause MJ to time warp back to 1987 to pose for that pic and then sell it to ET. There are so many other things that the family could not have influence over, too many to list here, it really is a landslide of info.

Your friend has good starter theories but they are spoken of one who has not scratched the surface of the situation. They are good rabbit holes though, and in following them, one is bound to simply stumble and land face first into hoax.

Oh Bec! This is such a great post! Wanted to mention that the other day, I was viewing a hoax video that had a lot of the footage from the 2005 trial's courtroom when it was empty of people....the camera panned slowly around the entire room, taking it all in....to my "surprise", nary a stuffed animal or toy in sight!....it almost looked naked in comparison to Murray's courtrooms....this can't be ignored.....also, you brought up Paris' "tears"....I believe she is already a wonderful little actress....but I see she was wearing an earpiece just in case she forgot her lines....just ask a non-believer THAT question...why would Michael Jackson's daughter need to be wearing an earpiece to be on stage and say a few words at the end of her daddy's service?

But back to your post, Bec....I think I need to copy/paste it to show a fabulous list of Hoax Proofs to those that need convincing...

Peace!
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Offline wishingstar

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 09:02:26 AM
Quote from: "RunFaYaLife"
Quote
The Death Hoax is a Hoax peddled by the family and sony to make money, maintain the legend and so continue to sell albums, to keep dreaming the fans, etc...

That one has occurred to me as well.

IMO it is really simple.....follow the money.

Some people have said this to me as well..........however, I don't really get it.  If I take the entire Death Hoax out of the equation, the money trail is still there.  Having a few thousand people believe he hoaxed his death isn't going to make or break and money trail.  The movie still came out, the album still came out, Cirque still would have come out, Experience still would have come out, the disgusting maggots that find ways to make money off his name would still be coming out.....how does having a death hoax make money?  We keep his name out there, but so do his regular fans (non-believers and such).  Michael is blessed to make money, I don't think a death hoax was needed by the family, Sony or anyone else.  
Now, all that being said.............perhaps the hoax was perpetuated in or to create more hysteria (i.e. a very large money trail) for the film This Is It and all that came afterward.  However, I don't think it was made up by the family or Sony.  I believe Michael is 101% behind this.  I don't believe he would put his fans through this pain for money.  There is a reason the hoax was put in place to this degree.  No other entertainer in the world has done this....not to this degree.  The fact that a few thousand folks see it for what it is, is great.  But the shock value will be greater among those non-believers.....when he comes back.  I personally, will not be shocked, but relieved I am not crazy! We have discussed many reasons for the hoax.  The last on the list for me would be money.  Hundreds and hundreds of folks have spent countless hours of their lives researching things, putting videos together, posting thoughts.  This is not a money making scheme, it's a thought process.  One that will give Michael the World's attention....when he is ready.  If anything, I am sure this hoax has cost Michael millions.  The greatest demonstration for freedom.........for sure!  

Anyways........lol, that's my 2 cents.  I hope you are all having a beautiful day!  Bec.....wonderful post ;)
Blessings Always!
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 03:06:43 PM
Quote from: "bec"
The presence of Dr. Murray indicates a come back simply by virtue... Murray's "guilt" has been alluded to from the get go. If Michael simply wanted a spectacular "death" (ie exit from the public eye) there is no need to implicate an innocent party in an alleged manslaughter situation. What's the point when there are so many choices of spectacular accidental ways to die that don't involve anyone being to blame? To involve a Dr. is messy, especially for the Dr. If court were real (which this theory implies) this guy could go to prison if Michael didn't come back. Murray's existence in this hoax proves the comeback.

What do you mean by "IF COURT WERE REAL?"    I was in the court and it IS real. There are all real prosecutor, judge, police, attorneys, Katherine and La Toya passed by me were real too, fans, media, witnesses were all really real. Is there a consideration that court is not real? Then I missed it and disagree. We better come up wiht reasonable argument on death hoax and how come there is a real court, real lawsuits filed in the court but Michael is alive. I have seen "zoo" in the court room, it does not mean that judge, and all participants in the hoax. Come on, people.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: "Cameron"
Hi everybody !

But he told me 2 theories so I post them here so you can tell what you think:

- We (the believers) have the opinion that the Death is planned, cause maybe it is. It can be planned because Michael Jackson wanted a Great and Spectacular death.
   So maybe Michael planned it in his Testament to have a good and mediatic death, so we can remember him and have a great legend.

- The Death Hoax is a Hoax peddled by the family and sony to make money, maintain the legend and so continue to sell albums, to keep dreaming the fans, etc...

1. If MJ is coming back and it what we believe in, then hoax is not for Spectacular death. MJ is humble person, actually he would have not wanted "great death". Although, if MJ is really died, I don't see how his death is spectacular. In what way anyhow?

2.Michael would never fake his death to make money out of his fans grieve and love. In this case if he comes back, he will not be forgiven by non-believers fans and more hated by haters. His image will be gone forever.

So, my opinion on both considerations is negative.
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Offline voiceforthesilent

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 03:41:20 PM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "bec"
The presence of Dr. Murray indicates a come back simply by virtue... Murray's "guilt" has been alluded to from the get go. If Michael simply wanted a spectacular "death" (ie exit from the public eye) there is no need to implicate an innocent party in an alleged manslaughter situation. What's the point when there are so many choices of spectacular accidental ways to die that don't involve anyone being to blame? To involve a Dr. is messy, especially for the Dr. If court were real (which this theory implies) this guy could go to prison if Michael didn't come back. Murray's existence in this hoax proves the comeback.

What do you mean by "IF COURT WERE REAL?"    I was in the court and it IS real. There are all real prosecutor, judge, police, attorneys, Katherine and La Toya passed by me were real too, fans, media, witnesses were all really real. Is there a consideration that court is not real? Then I missed it and disagree. We better come up wiht reasonable argument on death hoax and how come there is a real court, real lawsuits filed in the court but Michael is alive. I have seen "zoo" in the court room, it does not mean that judge, and all participants in the hoax. Come on, people.

Scorpionchik - I totally understand where you are coming from. I, too, have wondered about this courtroom of real people. But, we also need to remember that it's Hollywood, the land where fiction and non-fiction often run together. Remember, many "real" characters are also actors. Harvey Levin has even said that he was in a movie where he was told to adlib his lines. And then we have to consider that there are some who don't know they are part of the hoax. They are willing participants unaware that the camera is capturing their very real emotion.

I agree with Bec - there is too much outside of the control of the family or even Sony to be completely left on one or the other.  In fact, if it were Sony or AEG I highly doubt they'd get so many people to go along with their elaborate and scheme in order to hide a crime as it would then make them an accomplice.

I do believe that Michael has valid and important reasons (maybe even dangerous) for doing this and we just need to sit back and watch as Teddy R says.

Well - back to work so I can't finish my thought. Sorry. Blessings.
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"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

Offline Cameron

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 04:29:56 PM
Thank you everybody for the answers !

But scorpionchik, you said:
"2.Michael would never fake his death to make money out of his fans grieve and love. In this case if he comes back, he will not be forgiven by non-believers fans and more hated by haters. His image will be gone forever."

When I said that the Death Hoax is a hoax peddled by the family, that mean that Michael is really dead and that the family and sony are making use of the death to make money so the Hoax is here to keep us dreaming and to create the legend like Elvis and 2pac (and they never came back).

And bec, if the court is real, how can a court been legal and real in the USA if it is based on fake events and no body of the victim ?

The trial is in itself the thing that prove that Michael can be really dead. Can someone explain me this point ?

Thx !
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Offline AnaMarcia

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 06:56:35 PM
The judge is real. He has participated and participates in other cases of the celebrities.
 But I've heard that the FBI protected persons are entitled to many things, including a fake trial. Who is the United States can confirm this?  :?
 This is single theory that maintains on this story.
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Offline bec

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 07:34:35 PM
Scorpionchick, have you ever been to a magic show? What you saw was an illusion. In my opinion of course.

Of course the judge and the lawyers and the officials and the employees are all real. I'm not saying that they aren't. I'm saying court, as in the whole display, is fake; not the people that are participating in it.

Time will tell what is going on and then we can put our disagreements to rest.
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RunFaYaLife

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 10:57:51 PM
Quote
how does having a death hoax make money? We keep his name out there, but so do his regular fans (non-believers and such). Michael is blessed to make money, I don't think a death hoax was needed by the family, Sony or anyone else.

You just answered your own question... :mrgreen:

Michael said it himself.
Quote
'I'm better off dead. I'm done'

Then there was this;

Quote
Meanwhile, Jackson criticised his London O2 Arena gig bookers, saying he thought he only signed up to play 10 shows - not the 50 he is scheduled for - at the venue, as previously reported.

http://www.nme.com/news/michael-jackson/45249

And this;

Quote
MICHAEL JACKSON's former nanny has confirmed rumours the late star only intended to play 10 shows in London before his tragic death - insisting the late singer failed to read the contract properly.

The Thriller hitmaker passed away on Thursday (25Jun09) after suffering a cardiac arrest at his California mansion.

The star's sudden death came just two weeks before he was due to take to the stage at London's 02 Arena for a mammoth run of 50 shows - stretching from July (09) until March next year (10).

But Grace Rwaramba, who worked for the star for 17 years before her recent dismissal, reveals Jackson only wanted to play 10 concerts in London - but he signed up for 50 because he didn't check the paperwork thoroughly.

She says, "Fifty performances! I told him, ‘What are you doing?’ He said, ‘I signed only for 10.’ He didn’t know what he was signing. He never does!”


http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/st ... ts_1108002

And the Big One...This;

Quote
Death and Taxes. Will the headlines next year say that estate taxes have destroyed the finances and estate of Michael Jackson? There is not sufficient information available to the public to know now for certain, but from what we have heard, it appears that the late star’s estate will run into big problems with the Internal Revenue Service.

At the time of Michael Jackson’s death, the amount exempt from federal estate taxes is $3,500,000. To determine the taxes due from his estate, you must add up everything he had control over, had an ownership interest in or was part of his taxable estate under a complex series of rules. Figuring this out may take years.

Calculating Your Taxable Estate. For most people, your taxable estate means your total equity in your real estate, your retirement accounts, your savings and checking accounts, your stock and bond investments, your business interests, your life insurance death benefit, your cars and everything in your home. In counselling with people, I generally find that people are shocked as to how much is subject to estate taxation. Recently, a husband and wife consulted me about planning their estate. They are both practicing CPAs preparing income tax returns for other people. They said they didn’t have an estate tax problem, but when I totaled it up and looked at how they owned their assets, they had a significant estate tax problem.

Jackson’s Assets. According to press reports, the largest asset of Michael Jackson was half of Sony/ATV Music Publishing, a 750,000 song catalogue that includes music by the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond and others. The speculation is that the Jackson share is worth somewhere between $500 million and $1.25 billion. Reports indicate that although Jackson owned this in a protective trust, he had used this catalogue to secure loans and that his creditors could force a fire sale of this asset. Jackson also had interests in his own songs and recordings, which are skyrocketing in value after his death.

Billion Dollar Estate. So, let us assume all of the assets of the Jackson estate are worth $1,000,000,000 (one billion), a figure often mentioned in press reports. He has a lot of debt which does not go away because he died. Reports are that his debt is from $400,000,000 to $500,000,000. Let us assume the middle with $450,000,000 of debt.

Net Estate over ½ Million. This means that his gross taxable estate is about $550,000,000 (one billion minus $450,000,000 of debt). From this you will subtract legal, accounting and other fees of the estate that could range from $5,000,000 to $50,000,000, depending upon the costs and commissions to sell his assets. So, Jackson’s net taxable estate, after subtracting $26.5 million in fees and expenses and his $3.5 million exemption from estate taxes (if still fully available), would be about $520,000,000.

Pay $230,000,000 by March. The federal rate is 45% so the Jackson estate would owe about $230,000,000 in estate taxes to the federal government. When? Nine months after his death, in March of 2010. In cash.

Creditors Sued Him. Jackson had been fighting his creditors in court for the last several years. He successfully fought an attempt to auction many of his personal possessions earlier this year. He had been sued by his former publicist, video director, attorneys and financial advisors. A financial backer bought Jackson’s Neverland Ranch just before the property was to be sold at auction to cover back debts.

World’s Most Powerful Collection Agency. If you do not pay the IRS the estate taxes due in nine months, the IRS can lien and sell your property at a distress sale. You can ask the IRS for more time to pay, but this is often in the discretion of the IRS. Given Jackson’s debt problems before his death and the public exposure of this case, do you think the government will give the Jackson estate a break that they may not give to the average person?

Forced Sale of Assets. If Jackson couldn’t pay his bills during his lifetime, where will his estate get the $230,000,000 by next March? Will the IRS force a sale of his assets at fire sale prices? This has happened in other estates where the family ended up with pennies on the dollar compared to the millions the family thought they would get.

Was there Tax Planning? Jackson could have hired tax planners who could have eliminated most of these federal and any state estate taxes. You may be shocked to know that someone can die worth half a billion and not pay significant estate taxes through clever planning. Alternatively, if you don’t plan, the tax system can wipe out most of the value of your estate. Yes, that is the system we have now and it is going to continue this way for years to come.

The world is mourning the passing of this music legend. His legacy is not just money and will live on regardless of what happens to the finances and taxes of his estate. But, his estate is heading for a show down with the most powerful collection agency in the world.
http://wealthcounsellors.blogspot.com/2 ... ckson.html

Just the facts.

MJ's back was flat against the wall...if he failed with AEG they could literally take everything he had...according to the contract presented by Katherine Jackson's attorney's
Double Whammy.
Kind of like in Monopoly "go straight to jail Do not pass go....  etc.
As his estate stands now he is in the black.
if I were him I would have wanted to disappear too...one way or the other.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 14, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Scorpionchick, have you ever been to a magic show? What you saw was an illusion. In my opinion of course.

Of course the judge and the lawyers and the officials and the employees are all real. I'm not saying that they aren't. I'm saying court, as in the whole display, is fake; not the people that are participating in it.

Time will tell what is going on and then we can put our disagreements to rest.

Let me tell all of you something to clear up confusion and illusion. Besides Hollywood, the state of California has a real life going on in all counties, inluding Los Angeles county and its courts in Downtown.
And it is not fiction movie and judge is not Hollywood star to play mysterious movie to cover hoax.
 You should take serious the legal and judicial system of the USA, no matter how much we want Michael be alive.
So, here is the only and single reason for death hoax;  Michael's life was in danger. Meaning, there is, in fact,  conspiracy murder plan was recorded, heard, learned in any way and Michael had to hide and some authorities must assist him in that case. The CM trial hence and on the other hand, is real manslaughter case based on evidence that he has done to Michael treating or helping to sleep in illegal way full of medical negligence. But then, when Michael will come back, in what condition, what will then happen to murder conspiracy, all these quesitons will be resolved on its time. Second option, Michael never coming back.
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Offline Cameron

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: February 15, 2011, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "bec"
Scorpionchick, have you ever been to a magic show? What you saw was an illusion. In my opinion of course.

Of course the judge and the lawyers and the officials and the employees are all real. I'm not saying that they aren't. I'm saying court, as in the whole display, is fake; not the people that are participating in it.

Time will tell what is going on and then we can put our disagreements to rest.

Let me tell all of you something to clear up confusion and illusion. Besides Hollywood, the state of California has a real life going on in all counties, inluding Los Angeles county and its courts in Downtown.
And it is not fiction movie and judge is not Hollywood star to play mysterious movie to cover hoax.
 You should take serious the legal and judicial system of the USA, no matter how much we want Michael be alive.
So, here is the only and single reason for death hoax;  Michael's life was in danger. Meaning, there is, in fact,  conspiracy murder plan was recorded, heard, learned in any way and Michael had to hide and some authorities must assist him in that case. The CM trial hence and on the other hand, is real manslaughter case based on evidence that he has done to Michael treating or helping to sleep in illegal way full of medical negligence. But then, when Michael will come back, in what condition, what will then happen to murder conspiracy, all these quesitons will be resolved on its time. Second option, Michael never coming back.


Michael never coming back ? And send an innocent to jail ?
There are a lot of clues showing that he has to coming back and that he is.
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Offline son

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: March 28, 2011, 09:29:56 AM
Quote from: "Cameron"
Michael never coming back ? And send an innocent to jail ?
There are a lot of clues showing that he has to coming back and that he is.

Who's to say conrad murray isn't a "willing Martyr for Mj's cause?" Or, as I believe, he is a murderer but he didn't kill MJ but rather one of his doubles.
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Offline Cameron

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: June 04, 2011, 04:35:46 PM
I still don't have answer.
Can you explain me how a court can take place in the USA if there is no body, how can a court be based on a fake death ?

How Michael did do that ? Why there is trial ? !

If there is a trial, and a accused man, it's because the justice of L.A has the body of Michael, right ? So what, he's really dead ?  :(

I just don't understand, and it's one of the point which make me doubt that Michael is alive.

Shamone Mike, if you're reading, create an account and answer me.  michael-jackson/
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Offline blankie

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: June 05, 2011, 12:09:18 PM
In these two years we have found so many proofs that confirm what we think ,that Michael is alive.Then it is normal that some people think we're crazy for  this: .Michael's family continues his life as if nothing had happened and this is another test. Also I using this post to thank all of you .. you are fellow travelers in this our wonderful  great adventure.Love you all....Love you Mike from the bottom of my heart.

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 moonwalk_/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline bec

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: June 05, 2011, 12:34:58 PM
Whatever happens... don't let go of his hand.

He warned us. Hang on tight.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline MfighterJ99

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Re: It's also possible that...

  • on: June 21, 2011, 09:19:41 PM
Quote from: "Cameron"
Hi everybody !

I was discussing with a friend about the Death Hoax, he is not a believer but respects my opinion. I like to talk about MJ and the Death Hoax with him because he can deliver me a neutral opinion on it. He believes at 55% that Michael is dead, so he has a doubt. :)

But he told me 2 theories so I post them here so you can tell what you think:

- We (the believers) have the opinion that the Death is planned, cause maybe it is. It can be planned because Michael Jackson wanted a Great and Spectacular death.
   So maybe Michael planned it in his Testament to have a good and mediatic death, so we can remember him and have a great legend.

- The Death Hoax is a Hoax peddled by the family and sony to make money, maintain the legend and so continue to sell albums, to keep dreaming the fans, etc...

I believe in some theories showing he's not dead. But I read all arguments: those proving the Hoax, and those proving the Death. I believe 70% he's not dead.
But the two theories my friend told me are possible, so what do you think ?

What can you say to show to my friend he's wrong ? It's not to be vicious, but the discuss, debate, and proving that it's a hoax ! :)

Thanks !


With regards to the first theory: I think Michael would know that regardless of the way in which he would have died, the entire world would mourn and he would always be remembered as a true legend.

With regards to the second theory: Yes, he would make more money 'dead' at this point in time, however Michael was still making millions from his prior success. I don't think he was in the great amount of debt that the media portrayed him to have. And further more, he would always maintain his legend status, whether 'dead' or alive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »