MJ Music Video Shoot Takes Over Hollywood

[PureLove]

Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.

Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
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Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.

That´s not paranoia

You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.

Yes, it matters that you use the name of a psychotic disorder to label people not even understanding what it means.

And please, refrain from addressing people the way you are doing and respect others point of views on theories and researches regarding doubles.

It is very easy to make your point clear without falling in being unrespectful to your "fellow hoaxers"

My point of view is, you are loosing it and started to see MJ in everyone. You respect mine then Gema. People started to think that it is a body double since it is MJ himself (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) and people started to see MJ in people who are not MJ in disguise. This is so ironic. That is the reason why I say you are loosing it. I do know Michael's disguises but not all these people are Michael. I'm sorry for using "paranoia". You are right about it. I shouldn't have labeled you guys. But seriously, my point is, everyone we think he is MJ is not MJ and everything we think it is related with the hoax, is not related with the hoax. We should make the difference.

[RunFaYaLife]

PureLove
I agree.

[brunob12]

Me too.

[all4loveandbelieve]

I would like to know, if a man who wants to hoax his death, why would he disguise himself and go dancing with bunch of people. I think I would just leave somewhere far away. It is not him. Purlove is right , it is not paranoia, but we want to see MJ so much that we take anyone and make believe in our head that it is Michael. He is not Michael..

[MJs Tinkerbell]

Dude just had me waste 15 minutes of my life watching this video. :x

[all4loveandbelieve]

Pure love, there is no paranoia at all in seeing mj disguised as the old guy in those videos.

Even the way the guy claps or puts his arms up on the first video reminds of Michael.
Here the pic, too big to post :arrow:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Some thought the old guy at the basketball match was also MJ. We're definitely having a paranoia. It doesn't make it Michael if his moves remind you of him. He is too tall to be MJ in the first place. We just want to see MJ in those people and that's what make us see him in all these people.

That´s not paranoia

You guys are definitely loosing it. Whatever the name of it is, it doesn't matter. You started to think that everyone is MJ.

Yes, it matters that you use the name of a psychotic disorder to label people not even understanding what it means.

And please, refrain from addressing people the way you are doing and respect others point of views on theories and researches regarding doubles.

It is very easy to make your point clear without falling in being unrespectful to your "fellow hoaxers"

Gema does it occur to you that some people in this forum English is not their first language? maybe you should cut them some slack. Thank you..

[shelby61]

We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc.  The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot.  He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory.  Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey.  I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves.  

[MJonmind]

We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc. The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot. He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory. Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey. I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves.

I myself really enjoy MJ disguise possibilities and see no harm in it.  I'm convinced MJ was DD on LKL, blond lady at the Memorial, green man at the Olympics, Casket man and possibly others. MJ loves to wear disguises and has done so countless times throughout his life. He is a master at it, and has the money and staff to make them able to fool most people. He's said he loves to walk around normal people to see what they're thinking and feeling without being recognized. So I see no harm in speculation and investigation here.   With each of the above disguises there was much discussion and annalysis on the forum before a conclusion could be made. This old man case has hardly been talked about and needs further investigation IMO.

[shelby61]

What comes to my mind about the The Old Man theory is a book by Ernest Hemingway called the Old Man and the Sea.  I will copy and paste wikipedia a summary information on this book.  It was one of Michael's favourites.  What stood out to me in this synopsis is "Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world."

Plot summary

The Old Man and the Sea tells an epic battle between an old, experienced fisherman and a giant marlin. It opens by explaining that the fisherman, who is named Santiago, has gone 84 days without catching any fish at all. He is so unlucky that his young apprentice, Manolin, has been forbidden by his parents to sail with the old man and been ordered to fish with more successful fishermen. Still dedicated to the old man, however, the boy visits Santiago's shack each night, hauling back his fishing gear, getting him food and discussing American baseball and his favorite player Joe DiMaggio. Santiago tells Manolin that on the next day, he will venture far out into the Gulf to fish, confident that his unlucky streak is near its end.

Thus on the eighty-fifth day, Santiago sets out alone, taking his skiff far onto the Gulf. He sets his lines and, by noon of the first day, a big fish that he is sure is a marlin takes his bait. Unable to pull in the great marlin, Santiago instead finds the fish pulling his skiff. Two days and two nights pass in this manner, during which the old man bears the tension of the line with his body. Though he is wounded by the struggle and in pain, Santiago expresses a compassionate appreciation for his adversary, often referring to him as a brother. He also determines that because of the fish's great dignity, no one will be worthy of eating the marlin.

On the third day of the ordeal, the fish begins to circle the skiff, indicating his tiredness to the old man. Santiago, now completely worn out and almost in delirium, uses all the strength he has left in him to pull the fish onto its side and stab the marlin with a harpoon ending the long battle between the old man and the tenacious fish.

Santiago straps the marlin to the side of his skiff and heads home, thinking about the high price the fish will bring him at the market and how many people he will feed.

While Santiago continues his journey back to the shore, sharks are attracted to the trail of blood left by the marlin in the water. The first, a great mako shark, Santiago kills with his harpoon, losing that weapon in the process. He makes a new harpoon by strapping his knife to the end of an oar to help ward off the next line of sharks; in total, five sharks are slain and many others are driven away. But the sharks keep coming, and by nightfall the sharks have almost devoured the marlin's entire carcass, leaving a skeleton consisting mostly of its backbone, its tail and its head. Finally reaching the shore before dawn on the next day, he struggles on the way to his shack, carrying the heavy mast on his shoulder. Once home, he slumps onto his bed and falls into a deep sleep.

A group of fishermen gather the next day around the boat where the fish's skeleton is still attached. One of the fishermen measures it to be 18 feet (5.5 m) from nose to tail. Tourists at the nearby café mistakenly take it for a shark. Manolin, worried during the old man's endeavor, cries upon finding him safe asleep. The boy brings him newspapers and coffee. When the old man wakes, they promise to fish together once again. Upon his return to sleep, Santiago dreams of his youth—of lions on an African beach.

Background and publication

Hemingway in 1939.Written in 1951, and published in 1952, The Old Man and the Sea is the final work published during Hemingway's lifetime. The book, dedicated to Hemingway's literary editor Maxwell Perkins,[2] was featured in Life Magazine on September 1, 1952, and five million copies of the magazine were sold in two days.[3] The Old Man and the Sea also became a Book-of-the Month selection, and made Hemingway a celebrity.[4] Published in book form on 1 September 1952, the first edition print run was 50,000 copies.[5] The novella received the Pulitzer Prize in May, 1952,[6] and was specifically cited when he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1954.[7][8] The success of The Old Man and the Sea made Hemingway an international celebrity.[4] The Old Man and the Sea is taught at schools around the world and continues to earn foreign royalties.[9]

“ No good book has ever been written that has in it symbols arrived at beforehand and stuck in. ... I tried to make a real old man, a real boy, a real sea and a real fish and real sharks. But if I made them good and true enough they would mean many things. ”
—Ernest Hemingway in 1954[10]
 

Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world. Possibly based on the character of Gregorio Fuentes, Hemingway had initially planned to use Santiago's story, which became The Old Man and the Sea, as part of an intimacy between mother and son and also the fact of relationships that cover most of the book relate to the Bible, which he referred to as "The Sea Book". (He also referred to the Bible as the "Sea of Knowledge" and other such things.) Some aspects of it did appear in the posthumously published Islands in the Stream. Positive feedback he received for On the Blue Water (Esquire, April 1936) led him to rewrite it as an independent work. The book is generally classified as a novella because it has no chapters or parts and is slightly longer than a short story.

[voiceforthesilent]

What comes to my mind about the The Old Man theory is a book by Ernest Hemingway called the Old Man and the Sea.  I will copy and paste wikipedia a summary information on this book.  It was one of Michael's favourites.  What stood out to me in this synopsis is "Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world."

Plot summary

The Old Man and the Sea tells an epic battle between an old, experienced fisherman and a giant marlin. It opens by explaining that the fisherman, who is named Santiago, has gone 84 days without catching any fish at all. He is so unlucky that his young apprentice, Manolin, has been forbidden by his parents to sail with the old man and been ordered to fish with more successful fishermen. Still dedicated to the old man, however, the boy visits Santiago's shack each night, hauling back his fishing gear, getting him food and discussing American baseball and his favorite player Joe DiMaggio. Santiago tells Manolin that on the next day, he will venture far out into the Gulf to fish, confident that his unlucky streak is near its end.

Thus on the eighty-fifth day, Santiago sets out alone, taking his skiff far onto the Gulf. He sets his lines and, by noon of the first day, a big fish that he is sure is a marlin takes his bait. Unable to pull in the great marlin, Santiago instead finds the fish pulling his skiff. Two days and two nights pass in this manner, during which the old man bears the tension of the line with his body. Though he is wounded by the struggle and in pain, Santiago expresses a compassionate appreciation for his adversary, often referring to him as a brother. He also determines that because of the fish's great dignity, no one will be worthy of eating the marlin.

On the third day of the ordeal, the fish begins to circle the skiff, indicating his tiredness to the old man. Santiago, now completely worn out and almost in delirium, uses all the strength he has left in him to pull the fish onto its side and stab the marlin with a harpoon ending the long battle between the old man and the tenacious fish.

Santiago straps the marlin to the side of his skiff and heads home, thinking about the high price the fish will bring him at the market and how many people he will feed.

While Santiago continues his journey back to the shore, sharks are attracted to the trail of blood left by the marlin in the water. The first, a great mako shark, Santiago kills with his harpoon, losing that weapon in the process. He makes a new harpoon by strapping his knife to the end of an oar to help ward off the next line of sharks; in total, five sharks are slain and many others are driven away. But the sharks keep coming, and by nightfall the sharks have almost devoured the marlin's entire carcass, leaving a skeleton consisting mostly of its backbone, its tail and its head. Finally reaching the shore before dawn on the next day, he struggles on the way to his shack, carrying the heavy mast on his shoulder. Once home, he slumps onto his bed and falls into a deep sleep.

A group of fishermen gather the next day around the boat where the fish's skeleton is still attached. One of the fishermen measures it to be 18 feet (5.5 m) from nose to tail. Tourists at the nearby café mistakenly take it for a shark. Manolin, worried during the old man's endeavor, cries upon finding him safe asleep. The boy brings him newspapers and coffee. When the old man wakes, they promise to fish together once again. Upon his return to sleep, Santiago dreams of his youth—of lions on an African beach.

Background and publication

Hemingway in 1939.Written in 1951, and published in 1952, The Old Man and the Sea is the final work published during Hemingway's lifetime. The book, dedicated to Hemingway's literary editor Maxwell Perkins,[2] was featured in Life Magazine on September 1, 1952, and five million copies of the magazine were sold in two days.[3] The Old Man and the Sea also became a Book-of-the Month selection, and made Hemingway a celebrity.[4] Published in book form on 1 September 1952, the first edition print run was 50,000 copies.[5] The novella received the Pulitzer Prize in May, 1952,[6] and was specifically cited when he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1954.[7][8] The success of The Old Man and the Sea made Hemingway an international celebrity.[4] The Old Man and the Sea is taught at schools around the world and continues to earn foreign royalties.[9]

“ No good book has ever been written that has in it symbols arrived at beforehand and stuck in. ... I tried to make a real old man, a real boy, a real sea and a real fish and real sharks. But if I made them good and true enough they would mean many things. ”
—Ernest Hemingway in 1954[10]
 

Hemingway wanted to use the story of the old man, Santiago, to show the honor in struggle and to draw biblical parallels to life in his modern world. Possibly based on the character of Gregorio Fuentes, Hemingway had initially planned to use Santiago's story, which became The Old Man and the Sea, as part of an intimacy between mother and son and also the fact of relationships that cover most of the book relate to the Bible, which he referred to as "The Sea Book". (He also referred to the Bible as the "Sea of Knowledge" and other such things.) Some aspects of it did appear in the posthumously published Islands in the Stream. Positive feedback he received for On the Blue Water (Esquire, April 1936) led him to rewrite it as an independent work. The book is generally classified as a novella because it has no chapters or parts and is slightly longer than a short story.

Thank you, Shelby. I really enjoyed reading this summary of the Old Man and the Sea.

I agree - even if that person is not Michael there is possibly a reason he keeps showing up. Either way, I find him fascinating and would like to know his story.

Blessings.

[GINAFELICIA]

Anyway, I like how they say "Takes Over"

MJ [s:3ivf4653]Music Video Shoot[/s:3ivf4653] Takes Over Hollywood

I was about to say the same...... Back's takeover...

[shelby61]

One thing that just struck me was when the paramedics made reference to Michael as being an old man and that they did not recognize him at first  :shock: hmmm .... so the Old Man references goes right to the beginning when the ambulance is called.  So are there parallels?  Michael said he never wanted to grow old.  Something to think about.

[Grace]

I don't see any harm in looking closer at some people either, given it is being done respectfully. I acknowledge the thoughtfulness of putting a spot on several selected characters who serve as catalysts in grabbing our attention by some "misfit" and thus leading us to more insightful knowledge when questioning and researching.

It doesn't matter so much if the old man was MJ or a random stranger.
He was enjoying the scene, he was doing great and he was clearly focussed on in the video.

We are led into noticing and acknowledging details and interwoven features, we are being invited again and again into knowing more about a '"making of" process.
We are witnessing the "making" of "The Greatest Show on Earth" (which itself currently is already "The Greatest Show on Earth" for us travellers).
There is an outstanding twist of timelines and stories as in a litterature prize worthy novel, a true "making HIStory" creation project of never-to-be-forgotten detail and outcome. There are many helping hands writing that novel - knowingly or unknowingly.

Again and again I feel blessed to have been "called into" the VIP lounge for witnessing this dramaturgical masterpiece to unfold. I feel so sorry for all those who did not pay attention and did not question and do not listen or see and will never know about the "making of" in detail.
They may be shaken in their fundamentals one day.

I am grateful for this shower of love that we are being given repeatedly.
This old guy was acting a little bit too frenetic for the intervertebral disk issues he assumedly could have according to his potential age.    I like him a lot.  
Thanks Michael. It's an awesome journey.

[PureLove]

I myself really enjoy MJ disguise possibilities and see no harm in it.  I'm convinced MJ was DD on LKL, blond lady at the Memorial, green man at the Olympics, Casket man and possibly others. MJ loves to wear disguises and has done so countless times throughout his life. He is a master at it, and has the money and staff to make them able to fool most people. He's said he loves to walk around normal people to see what they're thinking and feeling without being recognized. So I see no harm in speculation and investigation here.   With each of the above disguises there was much discussion and annalysis on the forum before a conclusion could be made. This old man case has hardly been talked about and needs further investigation IMO.

Michael was possibly DD on LKL and the old guy at the memorial. I never said that Michael never used any disguises. Of course he did. But the point is you are trying to fit bananas and apples on the same basket. All I'm saying is, not all of these people are Michael in disguises. You can keep on digging and convince yourselves that he is Michael since he is not. I really do not get why some of you started to think that he is not MJ since it is really him and he is MJ in disguise since he has nothing to do with him. We need to be logical. That guy is too tall to be Michael. We can see his shoes and no hills on them. So why need to keep on trying convince yourselves that he is Michael? That's what I do not get. I would love to see him in disguise in all of the videos, tv shows, with his kids etc. But if we use our common sense here, he can not show up in every single place in a disguise. You say that it doesn't give any harm to you but you already started to think that he is not MJ since it is him, and he is MJ since he is not him. Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? After he comes back, I wonder if some of you will think that he is a body double too. How are you guys going to be sure? You will always be hesitating if that's MJ in disguise, or MJ for real or a body double. I'm talking for everyone who thinks the way I wrote above, not personally only you MJonmind.

[Lovely One]

We have seen alot of instances since the beginning of this hoax of the old man, from Marlon referencing Michael in the memorial service to flash mobs, etc.  The appearance of an old man seems to pop up in reference to Michael Jackson alot.  He may or may not be Michael, but maybe we should take it a step further and find out who is "The Old Man" who does he represent, does it come from books, poetry, etc...to me there is perhaps a deeper meaning to this "Old Man" theory.  Since many of you are split on whether it is MJ or not, the Old Man could be a representation of what MJ is trying to convey.  I have to admit though in that flashmob video he was was right on with the moves.  

I agree on this wholeheartedly. What if we are all still players in his movie and this old man is part of
the hoax?? Maybe not Michael, but representing something he wants to get across..
I find it funny that at the funeral we have hat man on his cell, and in this video we have this old man
on his cell. What if when all is revealed this is one big movie and we find out that the old men are
just characters in the movie. Maybe, hat man and this old man are supposed to be chatting on their cell
phones for a scene in Michael's movie. Could it be that all of these things we are seeing will be edited
together and at the end will finally make sense?
I am not making sense am I ?? What I am trying to say is that it seems as if there are reoccuring characters
in this hoax. Edit alot of this stuff we have seen and witnessed together and you have a movie.
But when does this movie end??