Whats stopping you from believing Katherine?

[PureLove]

What all of you are saying makes so much sense. So, the probability that Michael was in danger
could be the reason that Katherine is able to lie. Makes lots of sense but here is what bothers me...
If Michael was in such danger than maybe he won't be coming back? Does anyone ever return from
the witness protection plan??  So many questions.

I do not think Michael is in WPP because when you get in that program, you can never go back to see your family or friends. You get a brand new name and a brand new location and you can bring your close family like kids with you. But Michael didn't bring them with him. I do not believe he wouldn't go to see his parents, kids and family never. He did a deal with the FBI called Sting Operation. Sting Operation perfectly fits with this issue. I believe that after he comes back he will be protected by the FBI or by more bodygouards.

[suspicious mind]

All well and good and we always have possibilities.  But, with me being the same faith as Katherine, I can tell you, if she'd be lying, she'd be disfellowshipped and we'd hear about it.  Love you children or not, she could not do this if there is not a glitch or something.  And to say God forgives, there is a scripture that talks about KNOWINGLY sinning.  She just couldn't do that.
And also, just because he was in danger, just because he is in WWP, whatever reason, still don't mean it wouldn't be being set up for a movie.  COME ON, this IS Michael Jackson, who makes movies/videos of rehearsals, tours, interviews, a video of the making of a video, videos of others making videos and video of playing at his home with home videos.  Time will tell, but I think whatever the reasons for leaving, this is set up for a movie and hopeful Oscar (which is the ultimate award and one Michael don't have)and Katherine's part is NOT a lie in anyway or... like I said above.  She has to have the elders helping her, there is no other way.
Also, just because he's gone, almost 2 years now, cleared his name and finances, if he was in danger, he's not going to be by coming back?  We just don't know.

so if you are jw you can't lie but you can act and sing and dance as long as it doesn't involve anything that would be looked at as involving the occult or involve sexual impressions (such as latoya posing in a magazine in some state of undress)? huh

You are correct.  But, LaToya was never a JW...she never became baptized.  Michael was baptized and we know when the pressures of becoming "too worldly" was too much, he was counciled over and over and told this was bringing too much negative attention to the organization, he left.  You know he had problems with leaving and felt much guilt and continued to give his messages in song.  Michael left about 1987 and to ME, look how his life changed.  But his is not about Michael and religion.  It's about believing Katherine, and I've stated why I feel as I do.  You don't have to believe my reasons, we are all just stating our own reason to feel as we do.  Correct?  I'm not trying to convince you.  No one on this thread is.  Just stating our own feelings why we continue to believe although Katherine says Michael died.  
I don't want to get into religion here with you...I just simply wanted to say why I believe Michael is alive and that Katherine isn't lying.  JMP.

oh i was just trying to figure out if this was actual doctrine of the church.(seems it would be written somewhere). if this is the actual doctrine then she would in deed be exempt ( i think :? ).let me be clear . from what i have read about jw  i have not seen that what they believe is like bizarre or anything it just have a few parts that don't fit with some other faiths, that simple. i sometimes think all of the differences are a trick of the devil to confuse people into rejecting faith in a nutshell  


here is my one big worry with all of this . that katherine could in deed be telling the truth but that it all happened long before and that it has been hidden. the only other thing i can think is that the big shots simply stole his identity or he has been playing with people for a very long time.
wonder what it would be worth to a man to have the world record for the longest hoax?

[icebluestarlight]

Well Katherine most obviously lied in her book she stated that he went to the Echo Area in Liverpool England and there were thousands of fans there with balloons etc wishing Michael a happy birthday.  Michael only played in Liverpool once which was 1988 at Aintree Racecourse he has not been back since plus the echo area was only opened in January 2008.  I live in Liverpool and believe me if Michael had been here I would know.  

Due to this obvious lie I have difficulty believing any of it- if she fabricated that bit why would I expect the rest to be true.

[all4loveandbelieve]

Well Katherine most obviously lied in her book she stated that he went to the Echo Area in Liverpool England and there were thousands of fans there with balloons etc wishing Michael a happy birthday.  Michael only played in Liverpool once which was 1988 at Aintree Racecourse he has not been back since plus the echo area was only opened in January 2008.  I live in Liverpool and believe me if Michael had been here I would know.  

Due to this obvious lie I have difficulty believing any of it- if she fabricated that bit why would I expect the rest to be true.

I am a religious person, I am catholic and I have very much faith in God.  We all have one God, his name is different in every religion. Arabs call him Allah, Jeovah witness they call him Jeovah.. It is the same God. God knows if a child is in trouble that if you lie he will forgive. God is good he forgives anyone who repents of his sins. So if Katherine lied, He will forgive her, because he knows she did it for her son's well being. Plus most of her children they changed religion, Jermaine became muslim, and if I understood correctly Michael also became muslim. Believe me if I were Katherine I would lie though my teeth to protect my son.. She should also win an Oscar for her acting. A mother who lost a son wouldn't be acting this way. Usually if you want to do a memoir of your son you wouldn't do it a month after his death. You would wait at least a year or so.  Blessings.

[all4loveandbelieve]

What all of you are saying makes so much sense. So, the probability that Michael was in danger
could be the reason that Katherine is able to lie. Makes lots of sense but here is what bothers me...
If Michael was in such danger than maybe he won't be coming back? Does anyone ever return from
the witness protection plan??  So many questions.

I do not think Michael is in WPP because when you get in that program, you can never go back to see your family or friends. You get a brand new name and a brand new location and you can bring your close family like kids with you. But Michael didn't bring them with him. I do not believe he wouldn't go to see his parents, kids and family never. He did a deal with the FBI called Sting Operation. Sting Operation perfectly fits with this issue. I believe that after he comes back he will be protected by the FBI or by more bodygouards.

In the witness protection, once the person has been apprehanded they can go back as their normal self. As we all know Michael can disguise himself and go see his children when ever he wants. If he left with his children, this would have been obvious, if some one is after him they would know that he did not die, but is hiding somewhere. The FBI wanted these murderers to think that Michael has died..
That's why the children stayed behind with the grandmother, so it wouldn't be so obvious into their eyes.

[everlastinglove_MJ]

I remember one of my posts on topic: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Re: Katherine interview with Oprah!
by everlastinglove_MJ » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:44 pm

"WHY WOULD ANYONE IN THE FAMILY BE TALKING TO DR. MURRAY AT THIS TIME!!!! WHERE IS THE DOCTOR THAT WORKED ON MICHAEL AND HOW IS IT THAT KATHERINE DID NOT EVEN TALK TO THE DOCTOR WHO WAS WITH HER SON AT UCLA HOSPITAL."


Because Conrad Murray is an actor in this hoax scenario and he's playing the doctor who's "unofficially" announcing MJ's passing. NO official authority claims that MJ is dead, because that will imperil his/her position. So is the death certificate, which is not legitimate because it isn't signed, as far as I know, by an official authority.
And this also concerns Katherine. Considering the hoax, Katherine isn't lying, she is acting and partly she expresses real emotion. Personally I would do the same after all what Michael had been through.

It's all for L.O.V.E.

I believe in Katherine and her reasons.

[suspicious mind]

What all of you are saying makes so much sense. So, the probability that Michael was in danger
could be the reason that Katherine is able to lie. Makes lots of sense but here is what bothers me...
If Michael was in such danger than maybe he won't be coming back? Does anyone ever return from
the witness protection plan??  So many questions.

I do not think Michael is in WPP because when you get in that program, you can never go back to see your family or friends. You get a brand new name and a brand new location and you can bring your close family like kids with you. But Michael didn't bring them with him. I do not believe he wouldn't go to see his parents, kids and family never. He did a deal with the FBI called Sting Operation. Sting Operation perfectly fits with this issue. I believe that after he comes back he will be protected by the FBI or by more bodygouards.

In the witness protection, once the person has been apprehanded they can go back as their normal self. As we all know Michael can disguise himself and go see his children when ever he wants. If he left with his children, this would have been obvious, if some one is after him they would know that he did not die, but is hiding somewhere. The FBI wanted these murderers to think that Michael has died..
That's why the children stayed behind with the grandmother, so it wouldn't be so obvious into their eyes.

kind of sheds a little different light on some" trolls" who may have come here to try and get us to shut the **** up huh( provided that happened but we just don't know.)

[Miss.Peppers]

A mother who lost a son wouldn't be acting this way. Usually if you want to do a memoir of your son you wouldn't do it a month after his death. You would wait at least a year or so.  Blessings.

Errrr..   she released the book a year after his death.

Also, i am surprised when people say "she wouldnt be acting this way" etc.  You cannot predict how ANYONE will react in this kind of situation.

[onthewingsoflove]

Well Katherine most obviously lied in her book she stated that he went to the Echo Area in Liverpool England and there were thousands of fans there with balloons etc wishing Michael a happy birthday.  Michael only played in Liverpool once which was 1988 at Aintree Racecourse he has not been back since plus the echo area was only opened in January 2008.  I live in Liverpool and believe me if Michael had been here I would know.  

Due to this obvious lie I have difficulty believing any of it- if she fabricated that bit why would I expect the rest to be true.

Hi Everyone,

I don't know if any of you have been following the "Redirect" on this site posted by TS. I suggest that if you are not, you should because some of things that have been mentioned in this post have been discussed in great depth in that thread. I want to put my two cents worth in regarding this question about Ms. Katherine. But I need to post here first one of the post by TS in the "Redirect Thread."

Re: TIAI March 9

by TS_comments » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:17 pm

Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counter terrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI. {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway  ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.

Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
[center:35jbbbly]END OF QUOTE[/center:35jbbbly]

From the moment I became certain that it was a hoax, I’ve always believed there was a movie in this, and even more so when I read what Michael said in his “Moonwalk” autobiography.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I also believe that the movie is only one thing that is being accomplished with this grand scale hoax. And because I truly believe it is a hoax, I don't believe any of the main players :!:  

I am not a mother, but I feel that Ms. Katherine is only doing what any other mother would do in her position. And what position is that you ask? In the words of TS, “all of the above.” Take your pick.

I am sure that being the God fearing person that she is, if Ms. Katherine feels she has done anything wrong she knows how to go to God and do what she has to do to receive His forgiveness, because as it was pointed out earlier God is a God who can and will forgive sins.  I truly believe that once we do our part, it is possible for God to look at us without seeing our sins because when He forgives us, He removes our sins from us “as far as the east is from the west." (Psalm 103:12)  God forgives it’s man that has the problem forgiving :!:

Blessings to you all upon
TheWingsOfLove

[suspicious mind]

Well Katherine most obviously lied in her book she stated that he went to the Echo Area in Liverpool England and there were thousands of fans there with balloons etc wishing Michael a happy birthday.  Michael only played in Liverpool once which was 1988 at Aintree Racecourse he has not been back since plus the echo area was only opened in January 2008.  I live in Liverpool and believe me if Michael had been here I would know.  

Due to this obvious lie I have difficulty believing any of it- if she fabricated that bit why would I expect the rest to be true.

Hi Everyone,

I don't know if any of you have been following the "Redirect" on this site posted by TS. I suggest that if you are not, you should because some of things that have been mentioned in this post have been discussed in great depth in that thread. I want to put my two cents worth in regarding this question about Ms. Katherine. But I need to post here first one of the post by TS in the "Redirect Thread."

Re: TIAI March 9

by TS_comments » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:17 pm

Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counter terrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI. {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway  ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.

Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
[center:gmvyxi4a]END OF QUOTE[/center:gmvyxi4a]

From the moment I became certain that it was a hoax, I’ve always believed there was a movie in this, and even more so when I read what Michael said in his “Moonwalk” autobiography.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I also believe that the movie is only one thing that is being accomplished with this grand scale hoax. And because I truly believe it is a hoax, I don't believe any of the main players :!:  

I am not a mother, but I feel that Ms. Katherine is only doing what any other mother would do in her position. And what position is that you ask? In the words of TS, “all of the above.” Take your pick.

I am sure that being the God fearing person that she is, if Ms. Katherine feels she has done anything wrong she knows how to go to God and do what she has to do to receive His forgiveness, because as it was pointed out earlier God is a God who can and will forgive sins.  I truly believe that once we do our part, it is possible for God to look at us without seeing our sins because when He forgives us, He removes our sins from us “as far as the east is from the west." (Psalm 103:12)  God forgives it’s man that has the problem forgiving :!:

Blessings to you all upon
TheWingsOfLove

i always enjoy your visits here. don't stay away so long  

[onthewingsoflove]

@ Suspicious Mind

Hi there, God bless you royally :!:  :!:  :!:

Rest assured that I'm here with you all every day sometimes twice a day    
I love this site. I just don't comment that much.

But I take it to heart when people start in on Ms. Katherine.    My mom is still alive, she will be 80 in September and I hate to imagine her having to go through what Ms. Katherine is going through right now. She didn't create this hoax and I'm sure that if she had a choice she wouldn't be involved, but she doesn't have that choice :!:  And oh yes, she is a year older than my mom.

 I guess God made me a champion for the elderly, because I just can't help
myself :!:

Stay blessed, because you certainly are! See you around the site!
OnTheWingsOfLove

[all4loveandbelieve]

A mother who lost a son wouldn't be acting this way. Usually if you want to do a memoir of your son you wouldn't do it a month after his death. You would wait at least a year or so.  Blessings.

Errrr..   she released the book a year after his death.

Also, i am surprised when people say "she wouldnt be acting this way" etc.  You cannot predict how ANYONE will react in this kind of situation.

Yes it was published a yr later but it was in the works very early, Michael was gone not even several months. Ok. Miss Peppers how would you react if your son or daughter would die? Would you go out the next day to buy a sleeping bag? She has people who can do things for her, why did she go out? She should have stayed with the grandchildren, and console eachother. Who was with the grandchildren when she was out? You have your opinion, and I have mine. I do respect it, but I still feel she is a very good actrice. Blessings.

[suspicious mind]

@ Suspicious Mind

Hi there, God bless you royally :!:  :!:  :!:

Rest assured that I'm here with you all every day sometimes twice a day    
I love this site. I just don't comment that much.

But I take it to heart when people start in on Ms. Katherine.    My mom is still alive, she will be 80 in September and I hate to imagine her having to go through what Ms. Katherine is going through right now. She didn't create this hoax and I'm sure that if she had a choice she wouldn't be involved, but she doesn't have that choice :!:  And oh yes, she is a year older than my mom.

 I guess God made me a champion for the elderly, because I just can't help
myself :!:
all of the media and the book thing are what seriously make me think that at least some of the family are in the position of between a rock and a hard place. i am not sure how and by whom. as for the shopping thing i am torn , in some ways i can see someone from this generation doing that because they tend to think that they have to be busy during these kinds of times.
but then folks do want that to mean that this can't be real  
i do understand the protective tendancy for mom's but the reality is they are human also and don't always make perfect choices while their children are in their care . trust me , i live with the situation from my own mothers choices and it can get heavy to be the one to carry the load, so bear with some of us who have lived this side of it.

Stay blessed, because you certainly are! See you around the site!
OnTheWingsOfLove

[DREAMSandTRUTH]

Yes, that has been the roughest part for me, as I've said a lot.  With Katherine being religious it is very hard for me to think she would lie, EVEN if Michael is her son or to protect him.  I think there must be more...something to make it NOT be a lie or she'd be in trouble with the elders.  That keeps me thinking that IT'S A MOVIE.  I know a lot of you don't think so, but FOR ME, to piece Katherine into it w/o lies and risk what she believes (yes I know what a mother would do for her child, I am a mom, but weigh God vs son)it has to involve on HER part, a movie so it's acting.
But, like you Lovely One, I still believe no matter what it is Katherine or anyone is saying and even if he never comes back, even if the family eventually says no hoax, I'll still believe.

One of the main reasons I still think Michael is probably alive is because the family hasn't reached out to us telling to stop believing in a hoax because Michael really died.
They did not do it, although they know that thousands of fans believe that Michael is alive and are looking for the truth. I just cannot imagine that they could be so heartless that they wouldn't tell us to stop in case Michael is gone. This is a huge family, if he was gone, at least one of them would tell us to stop. But they don't do...

BUT if the family, some day, will tell us that this is not a hoax, Michael is really dead, I will say a final goodbye to Michael.
I want to stop this nightmare very soon, I want to decide somehow what to believe: he is alive or he is dead. I don't want to search the truth about it for ages. I hope Michael and/or his family will help us in this question soon.

[taty_2crazy]

Because of everything that has been said here and i agree completley , I believe he is alive and that his mother will do anything to protect him, even lying.