TIAI April 11

[2good2btrue]

I feel like we are going in circles, but  never have any facts.

In the beginning of this rollercoaster, we all stuck with "the most obvious answers".

Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.

I feel that a real body was in the ambulance, a body donated for medical research,  (perhaps a homeless man, that had a terminal illness) and a similar person in age, height etc..and a person who had lung disease....therefore would explain all the medical problems found at the autopsy, and all the needle marks..the oxygen tanks etc..  Bodies are donated every day in America and the monetary rewards are plentiful.  A rumour started that is was Michael Jackson, and the rest is history....

The only people therefore involved are the ones that helped organise the terminal patient or already dead body to get to MJ's house....and as we never saw any footage of the ambulance arriving, the body could have arrived that morning, and kept warm to simulate a recent death estimate.

You just have to look at this website and their logo......

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Buuutttt...how'd that dead body MOVE???

Do you mean in the helicopter???  I still believe that was an illusion created by the the person on board, preparing for the landing, and turned the stretcher around...

[AnaMarcia]

:?

[AnaMarcia]

I still think the theory most likely is a double of Michael went to the hospital in his place, and for me is the double of TII. I agree, if so, all the paramedics and some people of UCLA would have to know the hoax.
But do not discount other hypotheses.
Before, I thought anyone would be very ill  in Carolwood, maybe some longtime friend ( your double) that Michael  decided to help. This explains the use of drugs like morphine, propofol and oxygen bubbles found in the room. I remember Kai Chase said no one could climb to the third floor of the house, then the reason is that no one could see what was there. The hiring of Murray would be to monitor this patient and administer the drugs in time to avoid suffering of the patient. But this story would be very grim if Michael proposed to take care of a patient when he suited up and on the exact day that he (Michael) decided to die it just asks to turn off the oxygen, or give a very high dosage of drugs to commit a euthanasia. Ok, terminal patients with cancer are sometimes sent home to die with the family, but nobody can predict the exact day of the death and for what we already know the date of June 25 was well planned, according to numerology. Would not that be a kind of crime? Michael would not engage in it.
Yet the theory of dolls, I agree with Souza, you can not fool a health professional with synthetic dolls. I've seen one of these in college and is all very different, starting with the appearance of the skin. If that doll was used, was not with the intention to deceive paramedics and doctors at UCLA.
I do not think Michael himself went to the hospital ... would be so risky! But it may be possible, after all, Michael is audacious enough. He even said in TII, "the fearless MJ.
Oh Michael, what did you do anyway?
TS, we will need of you, so much!

[fordtocarr]

I want to ask these questions before I forget 'em

If a dummy or dead body went to UCLA...who sit up in the copter?
(but that don't mean a different "person" wasn't on the way to the morgue)

Of course, if Michael got "caught" getting out of that van, wouldn't it stand to reason that they made it look like it was a set up?

Maybe Michael was disguised once again as an old man, so the medics wouldn't be lying or so they could say they didn't know it was Michael?

But, honestly, to say anything besides the medics knew is crazy, because, say these medics are REAL...they would be taking stats!!  They'd KNOW it was a dummy.  Now it could be a cadaver..

Really, I'm with what MJonmind  wrote.  Mj is a performer.  Bottom line.

[fordtocarr]

I still think the theory most likely is a double of Michael went to the hospital in his place, and for me is the double of TII. I agree, if so, all the paramedics and some people of UCLA would have to know the hoax.
But do not discount other hypotheses.
Before, I thought anyone would be very ill  in Carolwood, maybe some longtime friend ( your double) that Michael  decided to help. This explains the use of drugs like morphine, propofol and oxygen bubbles found in the room. I remember Kai Chase said no one could climb to the third floor of the house, then the reason is that no one could see what was there. The hiring of Murray would be to monitor this patient and administer the drugs in time to avoid suffering of the patient. But this story would be very grim if Michael proposed to take care of a patient when he suited up and on the exact day that he (Michael) decided to die it just asks to turn off the oxygen, or give a very high dosage of drugs to commit a euthanasia. Ok, terminal patients with cancer are sometimes sent home to die with the family, but nobody can predict the exact day of the death and for what we already know the date of June 25 was well planned, according to numerology. Would not that be a kind of crime? Michael would not engage in it.

This is what I had thought originally also, knowing how Michael liked to help people.   And it would give a body and an autopsy.  BUT, then you'd have to rule out the numerology aspect.  Which I have done, but again, how can all that be a considental?

Yet the theory of dolls, I agree with Souza, you can not fool a health professional with synthetic dolls. I've seen one of these in college and is all very different, starting with the appearance of the skin. If that doll was used, was not with the intention to deceive paramedics and doctors at UCLA.

This is also true.  Also, I think this theory demands that the medics where in on it.  They couldn't do stats or life support on a dummy and not know.


I do not think Michael himself went to the hospital ... would be so risky! But it may be possible, after all, Michael is audacious enough. He even said in TII, "the fearless MJ.

I can just see the film of Michael being there laughing...
remember the rumor of a second ambulance going out of the other end of the drive?  Could've been in there?
Oh Michael, what did you do anyway?
How do we get a definitive answer to questions that are just a speculative collaboration?
TS, we will need of you, so much!

[Terror2k10]

Lou Ferrigno, Michael Jackson’s Personal Trainer for the O2 Concerts in London, has spoken fondly in an interview on

Michael Jackson's trainer Lou Ferrigno

 the Television show Good Day LA, about how MJ loved to play pranks quite often and how he would also disguise himself. He laughs and jokes along as he also tells how Michael used to place a Mannequin of himself in an ambulance to deter the Paparazzi. How very interesting…  :shock:  A hot room to warm the Mannequin to the right temperature.

[pepper]

Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.

I feel that a real body was in the ambulance, a body donated for medical research,  (perhaps a homeless man, that had a terminal illness) and a similar person in age, height etc..and a person who had lung disease....therefore would explain all the medical problems found at the autopsy, and all the needle marks..the oxygen tanks etc..  Bodies are donated every day in America and the monetary rewards are plentiful.  A rumour started that is was Michael Jackson, and the rest is history....

The only people therefore involved are the ones that helped organise the terminal patient or already dead body to get to MJ's house....and as we never saw any footage of the ambulance arriving, the body could have arrived that morning, and kept warm to simulate a recent death estimate.

umm is there any possibility that the ambulance showed up with a body already in it? :?

Excellent question, suspiciousmind!  This would make so much sense, to have the body already in the ambulance.  It would tie up so many loose ends and ethical questions concerning a donor body.  Of course the paramedics would have had to be in on it.  

I think the use of a donor body is a real possibility. See this link from February, 2011. Thanks to "skyways" for presenting the UCLA donor body link and idea!

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According to this-
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On Page 4 - "The Program accepts donations of human bodies for use by various individuals and institutions in connection with education and research... with the general intent of improving the human condition"

"A donated body will be used by the Program and others in a manner to be determined exclusively by the Program..."

"Donations are confidential.  Once a donor's remains have been accepted into the program... the Program will not provide any further information concerning the use and/or disposition of the body."

So it seems that an individual could possibly use a donor body, in a manner determined exclusively by "the Program" at UCLA, and there would not be any information provided concerning the use and/or disposition of that body.

Page 7 - "If a donated body... (is) used by persons... not associated with the University of California campus at which the body is housed, the Program shall be entitled to recover all...related costs...from the end user."

So a person not associated with UCLA could, technically, use a donated body as long as they pay to UCLA all related costs of using the body.

Page 10 and 11 - The form for a third party (not the actual person whose body is being donated) to donate someone else's body.

Page 15 and 16 - Describes the right to control the disposition of the remains of a deceased person -
"A funeral director or cemetery authority shall not be liable to any person or persons for carrying out the instructions of the decedent or the person entitled to control the disposition."

This would absolve Forest Lawn of any legal ramifications...

This link-
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7154 "If a donee (someone who receives the gift of a donated body) accepts an anatomical gift of an entire body, the donee... may allow use of the body in funeral services."

Would absolve whoever orchestrated this of any liability of using someone else's body in a funeral service.

And this link-
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California Health and Safety Code Section 7113
"A cemetery authority or licensed funeral director or a licensed hospital or its authorized personnel may permit or assist, and a physician may perform,an autopsy of any remains in its or his custody if the decedent, prior to his death, authorizes an autopsy in his will or other written instrument, or upon the receipt of a written authorization, telegram, or a verbal authorization obtained by telephone and recorded on tape or other recording device, from a person REPRESENTING HIMSELF to be any of the following:
(a) The surviving spouse; (b) a surviving child or parent; (c) a surviving brother or sister; d)any other kin or person who has acquired the right to control the disposition of the remains; (e) a
public administrator; (f) a coroner or any other duly authorized public officer. A cemetery authority or a licensed funeral director or a licensed hospital or its authorized personnel is NOT LIABLE for permitting or assisting, and a physician is not liable for performing, an autopsy pursuant to such authorization UNLESS he or it has actual notice that such representation is untrue at the time the autopsy is performed."

Well that absolves a TON of people from liability for the autopsy!
This also makes me think of the phone call CNN got from "the coroner" and the call the L.A.Times got from the "duly authorized public officer" that MJ was indeed "dead". Could it perhaps have been someone representing himself to be "the coroner" or a "duly authorized public officer"?  [/b]

[AnaMarcia]

The use of a donor body would be complicated. Here comes the issue: the paramedics and doctors soon discover that he was not  Michael and if they are not in the jest, would say this at any time for the press.
Now, if they knew the joke because so much work to get a dead body? This is so sad and would not fool anyone. The whole world knows the face of Michael. I can only believe, if this donor body is a double of Michael.
Another possibility is Michael has personally gone to UCLA. There is a medicameneto that the person appears to be dead because their heart rates become almost imperceptible and breathing decreased significantly. But I do not know if Michael would risk taking a drug like this. So he could fool the paramedics, as one of the versions is that he had a weak pulse, but various people  UCLA would be within the Hoax!
But I keep the theory of the double alive was  in ambulance. So, What happened at UCLA? I hope that it is next level discussed by TS.

[alovesmichael]

who are you? :?:

[fordtocarr]

who are you? :?:

With the pattern of thought and reasonings and teaching into logical theories, I'd say this is an attorney we are dealing with.

[paula-c]

If someone really died on June 25 or before, why not follow any protocol? I mean the police that day was not at home?, that lead to a person who supposedly had already died at a hospital and not the coroner?, the house never was treated as a crime scene. There is no person who works at UCLA who has said what happened that day in the hospital.
 And if that ambulance was to transfer to Michael at the airport while the whole show was focused on the hospital and then to transfer to the coroner

[bec]

Remember:
If the paramedics are real/unaware then the 911 call is real too.

If the paramedics are fake/in on it then the 911 call is most likely fake.

If Michael needs us to prove this hoax then he should have made it more linear. As it is it's very open ended. The way he did it makes the possibilities of "how" endless. Cest la vie.

I still say no body. There's a thousand reasons why. Here's another one: When all is said and done, a real dead person would have to be answered for. Not only is that body masquerading around as the KOP on 6/25 and for the 70 days afterward, just begging someone to come along and KNOW that it isn't Michael Jackson... (and how did they get it to match his drivers license pic), but when all is said and done, at some future date, when the hoax is revealed...

...it will have to be explained. And who this dead person was will have to be revealed, and how this dead person happened to be available to MJ and his team will also have to be explained, and the likelihood of that being no-big-deal is very slim. Because it's a HUGE deal. HUGE. Dead bodies aren't entertaining. Nor are they pranks. A dead person was a person with a life and a family and loved ones who need to mourn him and wish he was still on this earth. What a HUGE distraction from the message... from the point of this whole hoax. Instead of discussing the hows and whys of healing the world and making that change and removing the stain of chi-mo allegations... everyone will be talking about the poor dead guy that MJ used in the process of his giant global fraud, I mean hoax. See? Wrong tone.

Not to mention why bother, again, why take this massive risk of physical evidence just laying around waiting for the wrong person to stumble upon it? No one at UCLA needs to know squat for this hoax to work, except for Richelle Cooper... and he/she can easily be in on it, as the coroner is.

Oh and really. If this was a real body, and they really thought while working on it, that it could be revived, what if it was? What if that freshly dead body donated to the cause... woke up?

Because a long dead body is not going to fool medical professionals on the table in the ER. Sorry, it's just not, that's a fact. Warm or not, dead is dead.

Warm room was a ruse to throw us off the trail. It was a rabbit hole, but the rabbit hole had a fork in it.

[bec]

You're also not going to be able to insert an endotracheal tube into a dead body. Rigor starts early in the jaw (and eye lids).

Any alleged real body would have to be freshly dead (very freshly dead as in under a hour) and the numerology rules that out.

So anyone want to take a gander at proving the statistical probability that a man died within an hour of the paramedics arriving so they could still insert the breathing tube?

First you'd have to determine the likelihood of random death at that time, then the likelihood that the person was male, that the person was a thin male, that the person was a thin male approx 50 years old, that the thin male approx 50 years old was of a light enough skin color, had no distinguishing features to make it clearly NOT mj... etc etc it goes on and on.

[lilwendy]

I may be really out there but is there a way to embalm a body so it didn't decompose for 3 years?

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Friends and a benefactor rescued the body... cremated the body....  if it is possible to hang onto a body that long, without it showing visible signs of being that old... whose to say they didn't just get some ashes and say they cremated the guy.

Also note the tatooed on eyes and eyebrows... wasn't that mentioned in the autopsy report?

Please debunk because I haven't REALLY thought it through.  

[hesouttamylife]

Lou Ferrigno, Michael Jackson’s Personal Trainer for the O2 Concerts in London, has spoken fondly in an interview on

Michael Jackson's trainer Lou Ferrigno

 the Television show Good Day LA, about how MJ loved to play pranks quite often and how he would also disguise himself. He laughs and jokes along as he also tells how Michael used to place a Mannequin of himself in an ambulance to deter the Paparazzi. How very interesting…  :shock:  A hot room to warm the Mannequin to the right temperature.

 :shock: Does Michael have his own ambulance?  What ambulance did he use for this prank?  The same one in the photo?  Did I miss the link to this article because it’s kinda interesting?