Starting a Biblical/EOW discussion, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the box.

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Online ~Souza~

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I first wanted to post this in the BACK thread, where bec mentioned what we talked about, but I think it would be better to give it a seperate thread, because I don't want to cause distraction from Back's/Front's posts, even though it might all tie in, but then again, in the end everything on this forum should tie in.

First of all, I am far from Bible savvy. I know some of the books and scriptures, but not much more than I was taught at school by people who all had a different interpretation of it. The last couple of years I have been reading some more and have been trying to interpretate it in my own way, but I am at a point where my brain is fried and I would like to have imput from people from a different point of view, or maybe people with additions to my thoughts. I hope that not only religious people will participate, because I think (and that's in no way meant to be offensive) that if you have been brought up believing in something, it can be hard to step away from it and theorize different perspectives. I for one am someone who thinks that the Bible scriptures should not be taken as literally as some people do.

I am going to throw in some thoughts, and I am not saying I totally believe in them all, but some things do make sense and I would like to see other's opinion on them, since I can't seem to find many people on the net who had the same theories. 

Again, I am not a Bible savvy and if anything in this post offends anyone's beliefs, please know that that is in no way my intention. This is more a new mindspin after my post about Michael and the age of aquarius ( http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14414.0.html ).

Since the Ark of the Covenant was discussed many times and redirected to by TS, I started there. I had been reading up on it over a year ago, but due to any understanding of the Bible, plus some issues with the site/forum that I won't further discuss, I had put it aside to look at later on. It wasn't until someone in a thread mentioned it, that I thought about checking it again.

For those who do not know what the ark of the covenant is, here is a short description from wikipedia:

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Construction and description

According to the Book of Exodus, God instructed Moses on Mount Sinai during his 40 day stay upon the mountain within the thick cloud and darkness where God was (Ex. 19:20; 24:18) and he was shown the pattern for the tabernacle and furnishings of the Ark to be made of shittim-wood to house the Tablets of Stone. Moses instructed Bezalel and Oholiab to construct the Ark (Exodus 31). [11]
The Book of Exodus gives detailed instructions on how the Ark is to be constructed. It is to be 2½ cubits in length, 1½ in breadth, and 1½ in height (as 21⁄2×11⁄2×11⁄2 royal cubits or 1.31×0.79×0.79 m). Then it is to be plated entirely with gold, and a crown or molding of gold is to be put around it. Four rings of gold are to be attached—two on each side—and through these rings staves of shittim-wood overlaid with gold for carrying the Ark are to be inserted; and these are not to be removed. A golden cover, adorned with golden cherubim, is to be placed above the Ark. The Ark is finally to be placed behind a veil (Parochet), a full description of which is also given.[12]

The ark is believed to resurface at the end of times.

Quote from: TS
Are you aware the three major religious systems in the world (Jews, Muslims, and Christians) all expect the Ark of the Covenant to resurface, near the end of time? The Jews are expecting to get the Ark again, in connection with rebuilding their temple in Jerusalem near the end of time. “Muslims believe that it will be found by Mahdi near the end of times from Lake Tiberias”

I happen to believe that we are indeed nearing the end of the world/age. I have no idea what that will mean, but I tend to believe that it means that we will go into a new age, like Jesus said "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age". There are different translations, some say 'world', others say 'time' or 'age', with age allegedly being the right translation of the original word 'aon'. (Matthew 28:20)

Possibly, there have been other messiahs before Jesus. Possibly, there have been more prophets, and end of times. Jesus represents the age of pisces, we are now entering the age of aquarius. Maybe these messiahs are sent by God to guide people through the ages. If that's true, we are at the end of Jesus' age, and we will have a new messiah guiding us through the new age of aquarius. This is what I believe, although I have no clue how or why.

Anyways, let's say this is indeed the case. Bare with me, because this is flying through my head as many dots that I can't seem to connect, so if I don't make sense, let me know and I'll try it again.

There is a number which most of you will know as the golden ratio, or PHI (The Fibonacci Sequence, related to the number PI (3.14.....). Many things in nature are made according this ratio: flowers, waves, measurements of the human body etc.:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkGeOWYOFoA[/youtube]

We also know the measurements of the Ark of the Covenant:  2½ cubits in length, 1½ in breadth. This gives us a ratio close to phi (which is 1.618..., but not exactly: 2.5/1.5=1.666...

There is also something that should sound familiar that I thought of after reading up on the Ark of the Covenant:

For forty days and for forty nights
The law was on her side
But who can stand when she's in demand
Her schemes and plans


It made me look at the Billie Jean lyrics in a totally different way. I am not saying that there is a reference to the 40 days and nights of Moses on Mount Sinai, but we all know that Michael probably knew the whole Bible by heart at a young age already, so I can't imagine him being unaware of it. Plus the opening chords of Billie Jean are according to The Fibonacci Sequence

What I am trying to say, is that the thought occured to me, that the story of Moses receiving the ten commandments on Mount Sinai from God, might not be true. That ark doesn't make sense to me. Let's say that chest, as people believe it to be, would resurface at the end of times, who in the world would just believe like that that it comes from God, that it is the real Ark? It seems not possible to me when the Ark is indeed an object like that.

Back to what TS said:

Quote from: TS
Few if any objects in the history of mankind have been regarded with more sacredness and mystery, than the Ark of the Covenant. And surely if there is any object on planet earth that God can and will control at the end of time, it is the Ark of the Covenant. But the devil knows this, so he will have one or more counterfeit arks to confuse people. Then if we want to be on the right side of the final battle between good and evil: we must STUDY the true Ark, and know it so well that none of the counterfeits will lead us astray.

Maybe God was naive and didn't foresee that mankind would become smart enough to reproduce something like that, even to the extent that it could appear to be magical or even divine. But as we can read in Revelation, it was already said that knowledge would increase when the end of time would be near, so that doesn't make sense. Which makes me think that there could be a possibility that Moses was not on Mount Sinai, but with Satan, or Lucifer the fallen angel. Moses received those tablets approx. 1250-1300 BC, which seems a little late to me, since mankind exsisted way before that. Those ten commandments must have been there before. Reminder: this is all just hypothetical and theory, my head is just trying to make sense of all this and I hope there are Bible savvys here that can help me out.

Was the ark made by Moses one of those counterfeit arks to confuse people? Was Moses deceived? Or is that whole story added to the Bible with the attention to confuse people, making them think that that will be the true ark when it surfaces? I am not saying that the whole Bible is a lie, I am trying to make sense of it. God can't control what people add to the Bible or not. If tomorrow they will find a 'new' ancient prophecy, they will add it to the Bible, making you believe that it is something you should live by.

Quote from: TS
By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?

Another possibility could be that it was a deliberate lie to deceive Satan. If Satan would think that the Ark of the Covenant was like that, he would make fake arks that indeed would be in striking contrast to the real ark.

I do think that for those who look and seek for the truth, will be able to see it in the Bible. I found a YouTube in an old thread that pointed out the 7's in the first verse of the Bible, showing how 7 is the key.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4&feature=related[/youtube]

When you look at all the 7's in Mike's life, it seems to be too much of a coincidence, and they were not things he could have controlled himself. The ark is supposed to resurface at the end of times, what if the ark is not an object, but a person? Someone chosen by God to bring a message of peace, to gather the servants of God before the end of time? If it has to play a role in the final battle, it would make more sense that the ark is a person, rather than an object. Unless of course there is something else in that chest that will shock the world, but I have no idea what that could be.

If I understood the Book of Revelation well, and everything I read about it, there will be a period of 7 years before the actual end, whatever that may mean. It is called the 70th week of Daniel. I understood that 7 years prior to the start of this 70th week, the world would receive a warning. Please correct me if I am wrong here, because like I already said: my head is spinning with all this and this isn't my area of expertise and I am trying to type this without rereading everything i read the past weeks, so if I am wrong in what I remembered, correct me. The 70th week of Daniel, before Judgement day, will begin with 1260 days where the harlot ( http://endtimepilgrim.org/harlot.htm ) will rule. After those 1260 days, we will have 1290 days where Satan will rule, before he will be banned for 1,000 years by God, which is already certain, since God controls Satan and will only let him go as far as God allows him to. In those 1260 + 1290 days, humanity will have to make a choice: either you join the good camp and be saved, or join the bad camp and you will be sent along with Satan. The final and ultimate test for humanity.

As we are near the end of times, which is very obvious when you see many things from the Book of Revelation actually happen, I tried to search when that 70th week might begin. Calculations say (and I did not check, just remember reading it somewhere), that those 1260 + 1290 days means 86 new moons between Tishrei and Tishrei 7 years later (7th month of the year in Hebrew calendar), instead of 87 moons. There are 86 moons between Tishrei this year and Tishrei 2018, and there are also 86 moons between Tishrei 2014 and 2021. But 7 years prior to this year (2004) we had a huge warning; the seaquake in Indonesia. I couldn't find anything of that magnitude in 2007. Tishrei this year starts at September 29th with The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShana on 9/29 - 9/30), the first of the fall feasts, the other two being Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur on October 8) and Feast of Tabernacles/Festival of Booths (Sukkot, which is the 7th feast in the 7th month which will last 7 days from October 13-19, 2011). This website says that those fall feasts are the ones that yet have to be fulfilled at the end of times: http://endtimepilgrim.org/7feasts.htm

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The Meaning of Rosh HaShanah

Rosh HaShanah literally means “Head of the Year” in Hebrew. It falls in the month of Tishrei, which is the seventh month on the Hebrew calendar. The reason for this is because the Hebrew calendar begins with the month of Nissan (when it's believed the Jews were freed from slavery in Egypt) but the month of Tishrei is believed to be the month in which God created the world. Hence, another way to think about Rosh HaShanah is as the birthday of the world.

Rosh HaShanah is observed on the first two days of Tishrei. Jewish tradition teaches that during the High Holy Days God decides who will live and who will die during the coming year. As a result, during Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur (and in the days leading up to them) Jews embark upon the serious task of examining their lives and repenting for any wrongs they have committed during the previous year. This process of repentance is called teshuvah. Jews are encouraged to make amends with anyone they have wronged and to make plans for improving during the coming year. In this way, Rosh HaShanah is all about making peace in the community and striving to be a better person.

Even though the theme of Rosh HaShanah is life and death, it is a holiday filled with hope for the New Year. Jews believe that God is compassionate and just, and that God will accept their prayers for forgiveness.
http://judaism.about.com/od/holidays/a/roshhashanah.htm

Quote
Yom Kippur - Day of Atonement:

Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement is the most solemn and important holy day of the Jewish calendar. In the Old Testament, the Day of Atonement was the day the High Priest made an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the people. This act of atonement brought reconciliation between the people and God. After the blood sacrifice was offered to the Lord, a goat was released into the wilderness to symbolically carry away the sins of the people. This "scapegoat" was never to return.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefeastsandholidays/p/dayofatonement.htm

Quote
Sukkot - Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths:

Sukkot or the Feast of Tabernacles is a week-long fall festival commemorating the 40-year journey of the Israelites in the wilderness. It is one of the three great pilgrimage feasts recorded in the Bible when all Jewish males were required to appear before the Lord in the Temple in Jerusalem. The word Sukkot means "booths." Throughout the holiday, Jews continue to observe this time by building and dwelling in temporary shelters, just like the Hebrew people did while wandering in the desert. This joyous celebration is a reminder of God's protection, provision, and faithfulness.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefeastsandholidays/p/feastofbooths.htm

I found these feasts interesting when you think that both the trial (examining of wrongdoing, scapegoat) and the tribute (40 years after first solo single) are at the same time as these feasts, but I can not really make anything more of this, just throwing that in.

So, in short, and whatever theory might be true, I really believe Michael has a special purpose on earth, I really believe that he will play a big role in the end of time. And I do not say this because I want to put pressure on his shoulder, I simply really believe it. If there is anyone on earth that could be an instrument of God, it would be him. There is not a soul in the world who does not know him. I do not believe Jesus will return. He was a man of flesh and blood and therefore it is scientifically impossible for him to return in person. That doesn't mean the Messiah can not return as someone else. Messiah means the anointed one: To anoint is to pour or smear with perfumed oil, milk, water, melted butter or other substances, a process employed ritually by many religions. I can't help but thinking about what Timor and others were saying back in 2009; that the could smell his perfume before they even noticed him.

Well, that and other stuff has been running back and forth through my mind and I would like to see your thoughts. Am I going too far? Possible, but we should think outside the box right? And as strange it might sound, some of this all makes perfect sense to me.

There was more, but as you can see I have already difficulties putting this all together, so I am on overload at the moment. Maybe it will come up/back in the discussion, or maybe bec can fill me in, since I threw all this even less organized at her on Skype. I am sorry if I didn't make sense, I really tried :lol:

Lastly, I found this interesting post/thread/discussion on the David Icke forum,about the black ethiopians being the true biblical jews. Maybe something to take along in the discussion: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=18093



« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 10:27:27 PM by ~Souza~ »

Offline paula-c

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Quote
  Quote from: TS
By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?

 
Well, somebody remembered that  the day June 25 media spoke of the ark but the news  not transcend  that all we were attentive to the "death of Michael "? suspicious//

Offline skyways

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WOW, Souza!!
 
CLEAR Structure always get Vision focused@@
 
THANX again for your delightful sense of observation, hosting and hospitality! bearhug

Offline Dontwalkaway

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Souza thankyou.  I had a lot of the same thoughts.  I was also thinking that Michael will be there at the end times and that there were different messiahs/prophets for different ages.  There is a new age coming so a new messiah/prophet coming.  Also religious prophecies, science, and current events including this hoax seem to be coming together.  It is almost mindblowing how things are coming together.   
"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

Offline bec

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Quote
It made me look at the Billie Jean lyrics in a totally different way. I am not saying that there is a reference to the 40 days and nights of Moses on Mount Sinai, but we all know that Michael probably knew the whole Bible by heart at a young age already, so I can't imagine him being unaware of it. Plus the opening chords of Billie Jean are according to The Fibonacci Sequence


Yes and Michael has frequently stated on record that the song Billy Jean came to him from God, that he did not write it, he simply channeled it, MJ was simply the messenger of this song that came directly from God.


Makes 100% crystal clear sense to me. You all know I'm an atheist. I have no idea how to rectify these thoughts and feelings in my head but I'll deal with that later. Right now I go with logic and logic dictates to me that Michael is the second coming. I've felt that way for awhile.
Are you entertained?

Offline ilovemjforever

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Hi Souza,i am happy you opened this thread.Let me start by saying that i am not familiar with the bible ,but i was raised by a christian mother and grandmother.I agree we are definitely in the end times.I have been doing a lot of research lately,concerning the m.j hoax and the n.w.o.I have just like you, been thinking about Micheal and his role with the end of times theory,and i truly believe that he is a messenger for God.There are just so many things that i have noticed about Michael that seems so God like.When you think about it satan has his messengers too,mainly the goverment,and most of the entertainment industry,so of course God could choose someone as big as Michael to be his messenger.I believe this hoax was done for many reasons.When i read some of T.S posts,about Michael doing this to reverse the 666 pyramid system,i got a eery feeling that something very deep is about to go down.If you watch the news or go on youtube you will notice that a lot of propaganda is being shoved down our throats.They have been brainwashing the masses for so long,who knows what to believe.Remember Michael wanted to warn us,when he said we have four years,his message was very important,but he never got the chance.Im off to do more research.
MJ u are so beautiful,inside and out,u truly are a gift from God.I love u,brother.

Offline bindupbrokenhearted

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Hi everyone,

I am posting this just to give another perspective, but I will do my best to do this humbly and with love and compassion.  It is the choice of everyone to believe whatever they want to believe at the end of the day.  Love to all!

There are some interesting perspectives on the End Times here.  I have to say, I have not thought about all of these perspectives before, so it is interesting to read them. 

I come from a literal Bible interpretation mindset, and a lot of fundamentalist Biblical teachers believe in some sort of Rapture of believers in Christ either right before the 7 years Tribulation period that Revelation speaks of or during (some also think it will take place after the 7 years).  I say this because I have been reading about the 7 day theory (and still learning so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge there).  I am not sure how this fits into the 7 years of Tribulation but I can't get it out of my mind that the 7 day theory has something to do with the Tribulation period.  Forgive me if I am totally off base on that  :-[ but just putting it out there as I can't seem to shake the feeling that there may be parallels here.  The other thing is that many fundamental Christian people believe that the Rapture is right before the Tribulation, which will be 7 years long, and that the Rapture is there so that Christ raptures (or takes His people) to Heaven with Him while the Tribulation occurs (1 Thessalonians 4 16 to 5 11).  This is interesting because according to this doctrine, Christ comes to take His followers away to Heaven and keep them out of the 'wrath to come' for the 7 year period (1 Thessalonians 5 9).  After the 7 year period, Christ comes with His followers back to set up His own Kingdom (Revelation 20).

The Bible also speaks of Christ's second coming in the clouds, where EVERYONE on Earth sees Him (Matthew 24 36 and Luke 21 25-28).  (Therefore, I do not think Mike is the Messiah; however, I have said before and will say again, that I think Mike has an important part to play in where we are heading (End Times Events).  I am not sure what that is yet, so I guess we all just have to wait and see.   ;)

I do believe that the Ark of the Covenant is important, and I do believe in a literal Ark which is supposed to house the original 10 commandments given to Moses, the rod of Aaron, a jar of manna, among maybe some other things (if I recall correctly).  I think there will be counterfeits to this Ark, especially from the Illuminati/NWO people (whatever you want to call these people who are doing Satan's bidding).  I have a strong gut feeling that these people have plans for the Ark that is important for the Antichrist to set up shop, as Satan really likes to counterfeit anything God is doing.

Anyways, that is all I have tonight.  I may have more thoughts later. 

Blessings and love.

Edit: just had a thought: maybe the Rapture parallel is a type of 'hiding'.  Christ's believers hiding away, similar to Mike's hiding away for the time being. 

Also wanted to add that this 7 year time of being taken up to Heaven (rapture) is in parallel to the 7 day Jewish wedding week.  Sorry I forgot to add that in my original post  :-[
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 12:15:13 AM by bindupbrokenhearted »

Offline BeTheChange

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There's a LOT to take in there...especially for anyone who hasn't yet 'entertained' the idea.  My perspective, overall, is in line with what Souza posted...there were a couple of things I'm 'iffy' on (or at least can see where others might try to poke holes at)...but the general 'gist' is in line with mine.  I'm sure I will contribute more to this thread because this 'theory' fascinates me and I am completely open to it.
 
On the other hand...it is THIS theory, out of all other theories...that 'scares' me the most.  Not because I'm scared of God...but because I've seen the devil and what he can do.  I know we should not fear...but if true, how could you not be somewhat worried about taking THIS leap of faith?  Am I strong enough...and smart enough...to KNOW a false ark when I see one?  Scholars...who are wayyyy above my knowledge-grade...can't even agree on what it looks like.  There will be false ones...we know that.  How can we tell the difference?  My heart is 100% with God...but what if I f*ck up and fall for the wrong one?  Just some of my regular thoughts...brought to the forefront by Souza's post.
 
I WANT to believe in this theory...I WANT to believe that God sent us a messenger to lead us in the end times, which I believe we are in...and with every ounce of my being, I WANT that messenger to be Michael.  But I'm not 100% sure that that's what's happening...because none of us have proof (how do we even evaluate the proof when it hits us?)...not to mention it would take EPIC to a whole new level.  That's a bit scary, isn't it?
 
One thing that always sticks with me whenever I start to 'oscillate' ...is the scene of Smooth Criminal in TII, when Kenny asks Mike "how will you know when the marquee changes?...and Mike replies with "I'll just feel it". 
 
I trust that God will make me 'feel' it when the true Ark presents itself...whatever or whoever it is.  If I don't feel it...and get fooled by a fake one instead...then I wasn't worthy to receive it.
 
Gonna go talk to God now...try to make some amends---try to get him to see the 'logic' of why I did some things I did lol...and pray that I'm in the right Army.  My heart tells me I am.
 

With L.O.V.E. always.
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline RK

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I don't think I can do justice to this topic with a decent reply, but there are a  few thoughts concerning the ark of the covenant that I have. The old testatment scriptures hold shadows and types of the new testament fullments.

The New is in the Old contained
The Old is in the New explained
The New is in the Old concealed
The Old is in the New revealed
The New is in the Old enfolded
The Old is in the New unfolded.


The old testament has some divine cameos. Definition of a cameo is a gem having two layers, with a figure carved in one layer so that it is raised on a background of the other. God often asked men to do typically what he would fullfill actually. Abraham offering Isaac is a picture of God offering his Son Jesus, to redeem or rescue humanity.
The ark of the covenant that contained God's presence, is a representation of the true ark or carrier of the presence of God, Jesus. Jesus is the door through which a person can enter and also become that container or true ark of God's presence. God doesn't  live in church buildings or structures, He is Spirit and through the indwelling of the Spirit of God, He writes his commands of love on the real tablets of stone. Our hardened hearts, which are then transformed to become soft and tender . The old testatment picture of this is when King David brought back the ark and it resided in a tabernacle or tent. Tents are symbolic types or pictures of our earthly bodies, the temporary house our eternal spirit lives in since death came into the picture.

Adam and Eve blew it big time. The dominion and perfection they were originally meant to walk in was stripped from them and handed to a usurper named lucifer. The human race has been powerless to get back our lost inheritance until one stronger than the evil one clothed himself with the veil or tent of humanity and took the keys of death and hell from him.
So there remains some of this inheritance that is still to be recieved for human kind. That means everything Adam was robbed of. And the whole creation is included in that.
Romans 8:18~
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in US.
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly awaits for the revealing of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope'
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
And not only they, but we also, who have the the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly awaiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.


This is not pie in the sky when we die. This is about the here and soon to be now. God is going to have a company of people here on earth that will be his temple, the true ark, made of living stones [people] for him to inhabit by his Spirit. And the invitation still goes out to all who will hear. Revelations22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say "Come!"
So...Michael a messenger? definitely....Michael a new messiah? What if we are all presented with the opportunity to be vessels that carry  the fullness of God's presence while still walking  on this earth. Doing greater works than Jesus. The bible says we will. The bible calls this company of people  the manchild, the overcomers, the sons of God. There is no other door in my understanding in departing from the old slavery we were sold into by Adam's fall other than the door to the new creation birth through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Anyhow, this is my attempt at a simple explanation of what I believe to be the true ark of God. If you think I've totally lost it, you can blame my 4 lost years in the 70's, pre-christianity days that were fuelled with many many hallucinogenic drug takings.  :?

Offline MJonmind

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Good to see this HUGE topic open for discussion, though SO controversial!

BeTheChange, I understand your dilemna, what if Michael is being used by the Devil to deceive the world as Rev. says. Well, it seems that it will be every man for himself in those last moments/days. And the irony is if proponents of Michael as Messiah are correct, then the whole Christian world by the 2 billion (I think) are looking in a totally different direction and would outright reject the notion if told about Michael. This very talk would be considered most blasphemous. This all tells me God has a "wicked" sense of humor. And why not-- dare we put God in a box?

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Souza
Possibly, there have been other messiahs before Jesus. Possibly, there have been more prophets, and end of times. Jesus represents the age of pisces, we are now entering the age of aquarius. Maybe these messiahs are sent by God to guide people through the ages. If that's true, we are at the end of Jesus' age, and we will have a new messiah guiding us through the new age of aquarius. This is what I believe, although I have no clue how or why.


I've said it lots already that I believe also that Michael will be the new fulfillment of the Messianic return. I was born and raised in Bible culture, but 12 or so years ago re-examined everything, mostly through the internet, and my journey led me to here, almost like following a trail of crumbs.  I always felt it was God guiding me (though I'm sure others would question that  ;)  just my perspective).

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Souza
Another possibility could be that it was a deliberate lie to deceive Satan. If Satan would think that the Ark of the Covenant was like that, he would make fake arks that indeed would be in striking contrast to the real ark.

I came to believe that God has been doing some hoaxing of his own. There are some twists, lies, "pranks", in the overall stories and overall plan. Because it's all a grand drama on God's stage with many unexpected surprises. There is no one who can guess how Michael's hoax is going to play except him, and no one can predict how God's story is going to turn out. Revelation is like His 'TS posts', guiding us, but all the while some unexpected things will happen and humans understanding and love will be tested. Even the supposed threat of hell plays into it.

Even if most would believe Michael is deceived and wrong, he himself clearly believes he is on par with Jesus and is the new current replacement.

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Back
In the separation of major tIME factions in our planetary HiStory, specifically Birth of Christ (BC) To nearly 2009 years post his physical exit (AD), there's only one other Worldly figure that has been bestowed the powers to reach EVERY corner of the globe. And that Heavenly Gift was the Incomparable Michael Jackson.

2+5, The days of Christ and Michael.

Although many other Great Worldly figures, ranging from Martin to Mother Teresa, have graced this Earth with soul driven purposes that have benefited humanity, there have ONLY been two who have been subjected to literal crucifixions; before, during and after their deaths. And even in the face of these crucifixions, they both maintained hearts filled with love, sensitivity and care for all man/woman-kind. They carried rare emotional connections to and concerns for every single poor and sick person on the planet; Especially the children. They were in-tune with the necessary nurturance that this magnificent creation we inhabit requires for survival. They both never stopped giving and wanting to give more! They even carried compassion and hope for those who were consumed with evil and sought to do them both harm. An EXTREME rarity!

Christ was the savior of lives once as a physical being
So too was Michael Jackson....

Arms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same
.

Finally, what my husband always argues when I say this about Michael, what about the promise that Jesus in the Bible gave to return to earth, to fulfill Scripture.
There is a slight difficulty Christians have had understanding and explaining away certain words Jesus said about this. Souza you said, "I do not believe Jesus will return."  I second that. (and the original Jesus was black-skinned. Plus I agree with your statement that the Ethiopian Jews are closer to the real Israelites than the Jews today but that's another huge twist to the HIStory--fascinating). These are the verses where Jesus talks about how his return will be in the generation of those he is talking to.

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Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

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Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

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Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Now the whole 24th chapter is Jesus explaining the end times starting with the temple being destroyed. And almost 40 years later the temple was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans, and pretty much everything else was fulfilled during those terrible times. This belief is called Preterism, although critics say that Christ didn't return. The historical ways things were fulfilled then is a fascinating study in itself.

Then there are passages in which Jesus says he is coming quickly, which in fairness could mean suddenly.

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Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


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Revelation 22:20
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.


The Apostle Paul also taught that Christ's return was imminent/any time, that believers should not even get tied down with things the things of the world.
There are so many variations of interpretations on end time teaching and how they might correlate to modern happenings. Modern Christian theologians spend huge amounts of time putting out their elaborate interpetations of how end times will play out, but it is now 2011. All through these centuries Christians have thought their political/social circumstances were a fullfillment of Biblical prophecy.

There was a lot of excellent information on some of the old threads that relate to Michael's Messiah role.  I know people are probably entrenched in whatever beliefs they have, so I'm not trying to convince anyone of my views. I believe God puts His thoughts in people's minds, and takes the veils away/opens minds when He chooses according to His time-table.

And yes, these are very exciting days, but there could definately be some terrible days ahead. The Ark being announced to be revealed the day before Michael's "death" has always been a huge clue to me. The Ark of the Covenant is also a picture of the Christ. Thus when the Priest announced it --Michael the Christ is being proclaimed to all who are paying attention.  This is such a massive, important topic with so much that could be delved into. These are my thoughts for now!

My love and respect to all!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 02:26:11 AM by MJonmind »

Offline ForstAMoon

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Excellent topic!

I have recently discussed with my friend the end of time era and how the recent events in the world might fit into that.
I am not prepared to discuss it from numbers/years perspective, but just as rather big picture view.

We came to the conclusion, still theory-wise, that maybe it is not only the natural disaster that is the sign of end of times. Earthquake, tsunami, heavy rains, animal massive deaths.

But what about the financial crisis, that, in my opinion, is bringing the whole so called western world down one way or another?

and what is the cause of all of this: in my opinion GREED and moreover PRIDE.

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Some say that sin of pride is the sin of all sins, it is just the origin for all evil.

see the link that provides good summary here http://www.allaboutgod.com/sin-of-pride.htm

The so-called western world and western society started to believe that they rule the world. Disasters do not ring a bell or influance their behaviour in the positive way. On contrary - they turn everything into money. More money. More mammon. 

I also remember TS saying this:

"4-19. Stock Market Bottom on 3-6: 666!Several people wondered what the stock market redirects had to do with MJ and the hoax.  Some recognized that it had to do with the NWO generating the recession, in order to get the money out of the hands of the general public; and this is true, but that is not the only reason for these redirects.Those who read TIAI Revealed, Part 9 {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1933&p=27592#p27592}, may have understood at least some of the other reasons for the economy redirects.  Very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14).  The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).  Here is another verse, which connects 666 with money: “Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold” (1 Kings 10:14; see 2 Chronicles 9:13).The USA has the largest economy in the world, and the S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}?  The S&P 500 hit a low of 666 on 3-6 (three 6’s) {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}. This was the bottom point in the worst recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation).Was it a coincidence, that the bottom was 666 on 3-6?  No, I’m going to show you that it was the hand of God.  The devil and the NWO powers were trying to destroy the economy; and God allowed it—that is, until reaching 666, to show that it was the powers of evil doing it (and also to warn about that the mark of the beast).  Then God said enough is enough, and stepped in to turn things around."

Offline SimPattyK

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[...]I do believe that the Ark of the Covenant is important, and I do believe in a literal Ark which is supposed to house the original 10 commandments given to Moses, the rod of Aaron [...]
^^ I am doing a research on this ^^ in relation to MJ & Elvis Aaron PRIEST-ly! I will come back... later... with more details...

And the numerology of 7 is a MAJOR  link too!

Offline Im_convincedmjalive

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  Quote from: TS
By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?

 
Well, somebody remembered that  the day June 25 media spoke of the ark but the news  not transcend  that all we were attentive to the "death of Michael "? suspicious//
Quote from: Sarahli
In the Quran it is mentionned:
[2:248] Their prophet said to them, "The sign of his kingship is that the Ark of the Covenant will be restored to you, bringing assurances from your Lord, and relics left by the people of Moses and the people of Aaron. It will be carried by the angels. This should be a convincing sign for you, if you are really believers."

It is in reference of the story of Saul, him being chosen by God to be King and this same history is narrated in the Bible's Book of I Samuel, Ch. 9 and 10.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Samuel

TS said in the update that muslims were also waiting for the Ark to be discovered by "Mahdi", I just wanted to say that "Mahdi" is not mentionned in the Quran so I take this information with grand reserve.

"On 25 June 2009, the patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia, Abuna Paulos, said he would announce to the world the next day the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, which he said had been kept safe and secure in a church in Axum, Ethiopia. The following day, on 26 June 2009, the patriarch announced that he would not unveil the Ark after all, but that instead he could attest to its current status."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the ... dox_Church

I don't understand. If it has really been discovered why decide to keep it secret after having thrown the information that an announcement would be made about it ? And the date of 25 June 2009 is very intriguing. What a "coincidence" !

When you begin to search for the Ark you realize that it can be everywhere in the world, so many theories are on the internet that I really don't know what to think about it anymore.

TS also said "When the time is right, there will be further information about the Ark of the Covenant." I'm impatient to know more about it, this subject is very interesting and TS seems to know more.

Here is my thoughts and theories on the unveiling (hype) of THE ARK...
News articles to the world.


It is called deception... the evil one (devil, satan) who roams this earth to deceive and destroy and FOOL God's people, leading them astray and away from God (if he can) and even just people in general into believing that the ARK a man made article, (bobble) would give them the info they need.

Which is the devil's Job, lol

When in fact I believe the "true ARK" is as written below. (See Revelation reference). It is not in some false IDOL box but in the heavens with God himself and in his word.

According to the Book of Revelation, the Ark is in the Temple of God in Heaven in vision: "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the Ark of his Covenant" (Rev. 11:19 NIV).

My theory is this that on June 25 2009 The Church was going to unviel a GREAT DECEPTION upon the world to deceive them into thinking they had to worship a golden box..lol

When ArchAngel Michael  "died" on the same day, he is a "positive light" counteracting the "negative" that was about to deceive. When Michael "died" on the same day, No one paid attention to the false Idol and was consumed by The ArchAngel Michael, who is in MY opinion the Seventh Angel warning us of the end times.

He counteracted falseness with truth and opened up the seventh seals of knowledge.


Revelation 5:1 (Amplified Bible)
Revelation 5
 1 AND I saw lying on the open hand of Him Who was seated on the throne a scroll (book) written within and on the back, closed and sealed with seven seals;

Revelation 11 (Amplified Bible)
Revelation 11
 1 A REED [as a measuring rod] was then given to me, [shaped] like a staff, and I was told: Rise up and measure the sanctuary of God and the altar [of incense], and [number] those who worship there.
   
2 But leave out of your measuring the court outside the sanctuary of God; omit that, for it is given over to the Gentiles (the nations), and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months (three and one-half years).

    3 And I will grant the power of prophecy to My two witnesses for 1,260 (42 months; three and one-half years), dressed in sackcloth.

    4 These [witnesses] are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth.

    5 And if anyone attempts to injure them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their enemies; if anyone should attempt to harm them, thus he is doomed to be slain. [II Kings 1:10; Jer. 5:14.]

    6 These [two witnesses] have power to shut up the sky, so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying (their prediction of events relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph); and they also have power to turn the waters into blood and to smite and scourge the earth with all manner of plagues as often as they choose.

    7 But when they have finished their testimony and their evidence is all in, the beast (monster) that comes up out of the Abyss (bottomless pit) will wage war on them, and conquer them and kill them.

    8 And their dead bodies [will lie exposed] in the open street [(a public square) of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called [by the mystical and allegorical names of] Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    9 For three and a half days men from the races and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and will not allow them to be put in a tomb.

    10 And those who dwell on the earth will gloat and exult over them and rejoice exceedingly, taking their ease and sending presents [in congratulation] to one another, because these two prophets had been such a vexation and trouble and torment to all the dwellers on the earth.

    11 But after three and a half days, by God's gift the breath of life again entered into them, and they rose up on their feet, and great dread and terror fell on those who watched them.

    12 Then [the two witnesses] heard a strong voice from heaven calling to them, Come up here! And before the very eyes of their enemies they ascended into heaven in a cloud. [II Kings 2:11.]

    13 And at that [very] hour there was a tremendous earthquake and one tenth of the city was destroyed (fell); seven thousand people perished in the earthquake, and those who remained were filled with dread and terror and were awe-struck, and they glorified the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe (calamity) has passed; now the third woe is speedily to come.

    15 The seventh angel then blew [his] trumpet, and there were mighty voices in heaven, shouting, The dominion (kingdom, sovereignty, rule) of the world has now come into the possession and become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ (the Messiah), and He shall reign forever and ever (for the eternities of the eternities)!

    16 Then the twenty-four elders [of the heavenly Sanhedrin], who sit on their thrones before God, prostrated themselves before Him and worshiped,

    17 Exclaiming, To You we give thanks, Lord God Omnipotent, [the One] Who is and [ever] was, for assuming the high sovereignty and the great power that are Yours and for beginning to reign.

    18 And the heathen (the nations) raged, but Your wrath (retribution, indignation) came, the time when the dead will be judged and Your servants the prophets and saints rewarded--and those who revere (fear) Your name, both low and high and small and great--and [the time] for destroying the corrupters of the earth.

    19 Then the sanctuary of God in heaven was thrown open, and the ark of His covenant was seen standing inside in His sanctuary; and there were flashes of lightning, loud rumblings (blasts, mutterings), peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a terrific hailstorm. [I Kings 8:1-6.]


The Lion of Judah represents Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Judah

Revelation 5:5 (Amplified Bible)
5 Then one of the elders [of the heavenly Sanhedrin] said to me, Stop weeping! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root (Source) of David, has won (has overcome and conquered)! He can open the scroll and break its seven seals!

Peace

P.S. Anyone can still add to this any knowledge they know. I am NOT the wisest One here, or religious. lol
I just think and interpret this info and connect DOTS and I am being lead by the holy spirit to see truth and understanding.
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The ark of the covenant that contained God's presence, is a representation of the true ark or carrier of the presence of God, Jesus. Jesus is the door through which a person can enter and also become that container or true ark of God's presence. God doesn't  live in church buildings or structures, He is Spirit and through the indwelling of the Spirit of God, He writes his commands of love on the real tablets of stone. Our hardened hearts, which are then transformed to become soft and tender . The old testatment picture of this is when King David brought back the ark and it resided in a tabernacle or tent. Tents are symbolic types or pictures of our earthly bodies, the temporary house our eternal spirit lives in since death came into the picture. This is not pie in the sky when we die. This is about the here and soon to be now. God is going to have a company of people here on earth that will be his temple, the true ark, made of living stones [people] for him to inhabit by his Spirit. And the invitation still goes out to all who will hear. Revelations22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say "Come!"

So...Michael a messenger? definitely....Michael a new messiah? What if we are all presented with the opportunity to be vessels that carry  the fullness of God's presence while still walking on this earth. Doing greater works than Jesus. The bible says we will. The bible calls this company of people  the manchild, the overcomers, the sons of God. There is no other door in my understanding in departing from the old slavery we were sold into by Adam's fall other than the door to the new creation birth through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
@RK-I agree with the interpretation you stated.

@Souza-You presented a very well put together theory and I believe that alot of what you stated is right on the target. I agree that the ARK is not an object anymore and is indeed a person however I believe that person to be Jesus when he returns. I do believe in his second coming because there is scripture that provides evidence of his return. He said himself to his disciples on the Mount of Olives that he was going away and he shall return in end times. I believe that MJ is indeed a chosen messenger to deliver warnings and usher in the coming Messiah Jesus before his return to reign over this earth setting up his messianic years.

ArchAngel Michael plays an important part in capturing Satan after he is allowed to reign over this earth and is then thrown in the abyss.

Satan was given domain of this earth for a time he is said to be the ruler of earth/world.
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Verse of the Day
“[True Wisdom Comes from God] If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom.” James 3:13 NLT

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=AMP
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Matthew 24
1JESUS DEPARTED from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.
3While He was seated on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately and said, Tell us, when will this take place, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end (the completion, the consummation) of the age?
4Jesus answered them, Be careful that no one misleads you [deceiving you and leading you into error].
5For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.
6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;
8All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the birth pangs [of the intolerable anguish].
9Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
10And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred.
11And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.
12And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.
15So when you see the appalling sacrilege [the abomination that astonishes and makes desolate], spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place--let the reader take notice and ponder and consider and heed [this]--
16Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
17Let him who is on the housetop not come down and go into the house to take anything;
18And let him who is in the field not turn back to get his overcoat.
19And alas for the women who are pregnant and for those who have nursing babies in those days!
20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
21For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].
22And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
23If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!--do not believe it.
24For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones).
25See, I have warned you beforehand.
26So if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness (desert)--do not go out there; if they tell you, Behold, He is in the secret places or inner rooms--do not believe it.
27For just as the lightning flashes from the east and shines and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28Wherever there is a fallen body (a corpse), there the vultures (or eagles) will flock together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendor].
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect (His chosen ones) from the four winds, [even] from one end of the universe to the other.
32From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near.
33So also when you see these signs, all taken together, coming to pass, you may know of a surety that He is near, at the very doors.
34Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, [in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.
35Sky and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38For just as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, [men] marrying and [women] being given in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah went into the ark,
39And they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away--so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40At that time two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42Watch therefore [give strict attention, be cautious and active], for you do not know in what kind of a day [whether a near or remote one] your Lord is coming.
43But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a [night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be [undermined and broken into.
44You also must be ready therefore, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.
45Who then is the faithful, thoughtful, and wise servant, whom his master has put in charge of his household to give to the others the food and supplies at the proper time?
46Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) is that servant whom, when his master comes, he will find so doing.
47I solemnly declare to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48But if that servant is wicked and says to himself, My master is delayed and is going to be gone a long time,
49And begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken,
50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware,
51And will punish him [cut him up by scourging] and put him with the pretenders (hypocrites); there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1&version=AMP
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Revelation 1
1[THIS IS] the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries]. God gave it to Him to disclose and make known to His bond servants certain things which must shortly and speedily come to pass in their entirety. And He sent and communicated it through His angel (messenger) to His bond servant John,
2Who has testified to and vouched for all that he saw [in his visions], the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
3Blessed (happy, to be envied) is the man who reads aloud [in the assemblies] the word of this prophecy; and blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who hear [it read] and who keep themselves true to the things which are written in it [heeding them and laying them to heart], for the time [for them to be fulfilled] is near.
4John to the seven assemblies (churches) that are in Asia: May grace (God's unmerited favor) be granted to you and spiritual peace (the peace of Christ's kingdom) from Him Who is and Who was and Who is to come, and from the seven Spirits [the sevenfold Holy Spirit] before His throne,
5And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who ever loves us and has once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood,
6And formed us into a kingdom (a royal race), priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the power and the majesty and the dominion throughout the ages and forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
7Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth shall gaze upon Him and beat their breasts and mourn and lament over Him. Even so [must it be]. Amen (so be it).
8I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord God, He Who is and Who was and Who is to come, the Almighty (the Ruler of all).
9I, John, your brother and companion (sharer and participator) with you in the tribulation and kingdom and patient endurance [which are] in Jesus Christ, was on the isle called Patmos, [banished] on account of [my witnessing to] the Word of God and the testimony (the proof, the evidence) for Jesus Christ.
10I was in the Spirit [rapt in His power] on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a great voice like the calling of a war trumpet,
11Saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Write promptly what you see (your vision) in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia--to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.
12Then I turned to see [whose was] the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13And in the midst of the lampstands [One] like a Son of Man, clothed with a robe which reached to His feet and with a girdle of gold about His breast.
14His head and His hair were white like white wool, [as white] as snow, and His eyes [flashed] like a flame of fire.
15His feet glowed like burnished (bright) bronze as it is refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.
16In His right hand He held seven stars, and from His mouth there came forth a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was like the sun shining in full power at midday.
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as if dead. But He laid His right hand on me and said, Do not be afraid! I am the First and the Last,
18And the Ever-living One [I am living in the eternity of the eternities]. I died, but see, I am alive forevermore; and I possess the keys of death and Hades (the realm of the dead).
19Write therefore the things you see, what they are [and signify] and what is to take place hereafter.
20As to the hidden meaning (the mystery) of the seven stars which you saw on My right hand and the seven lampstands of gold: the seven stars are the seven angels (messengers) of the seven assemblies (churches) and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+10&version=AMP
Quote
Revelation 10
1THEN I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, robed in a cloud, with a [halo like a] rainbow over his head; his face was like the sun, and his feet (legs) were like columns of fire.
2He had a little book (scroll) open in his hand. He set his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land,
3And he shouted with a loud voice like the roaring of a lion; and when he had shouted, the seven thunders gave voice and uttered their message in distinct words.
4And when the seven thunders had spoken (sounded), I was going to write [it down], but I heard a voice from heaven saying, Seal up what the seven thunders have said! Do not write it down!
5Then the [mighty] angel whom I had seen stationed on sea and land raised his right hand to heaven (the sky),
6And swore in the name of (by) Him Who lives forever and ever, Who created the heavens (sky) and all they contain, and the earth and all that it contains, and the sea and all that it contains. [He swore] that no more time should intervene and there should be no more waiting or delay,
7But that when the days come when the trumpet call of the seventh angel is about to be sounded, then God's mystery (His secret design, His hidden purpose), as He had announced the glad tidings to His servants the prophets, should be fulfilled (accomplished, completed).
8Then the voice that I heard from heaven spoke again to me, saying, Go and take the little book (scroll) which is open on the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.
9So I went up to the angel and asked him to give me the little book. And he said to me, Take it and eat it. It will embitter your stomach, though in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.
10So I took the little book from the angel's hand and ate and swallowed it; it was as sweet as honey in my mouth, but once I had swallowed it, my stomach was embittered.
11Then they said to me, You are to make a fresh prophecy concerning many peoples and races and nations and languages and kings.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=AMP
Quote
Revelation 20
1THEN I saw an angel descending from heaven; he was holding the key of the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and a great chain was in his hand.
2And he gripped and overpowered the dragon, that old serpent [of primeval times], who is the devil and Satan, and [securely] bound him for a thousand years.
3Then he hurled him into the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and closed it and sealed it above him, so that he should no longer lead astray and deceive and seduce the nations until the thousand years were at an end. After that he must be liberated for a short time.
4Then I saw thrones, and sitting on them were those to whom authority to act as judges and to pass sentence was entrusted. Also I saw the souls of those who had been slain with axes [beheaded] for their witnessing to Jesus and [for preaching and testifying] for the Word of God, and who had refused to pay homage to the beast or his statue and had not accepted his mark or permitted it to be stamped on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived again and ruled with Christ (the Messiah) a thousand years.
5The remainder of the dead were not restored to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed (happy, to be envied) and holy (spiritually whole, of unimpaired innocence and proved virtue) is the person who takes part (shares) in the first resurrection! Over them the second death exerts no power or authority, but they shall be ministers of God and of Christ (the Messiah), and they shall rule along with Him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his place of confinement,
8And he will go forth to deceive and seduce and lead astray the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth--Gog and Magog--to muster them for war; their number is like the sand of the sea.
9And they swarmed up over the broad plain of the earth and encircled the fortress (camp) of God's people (the saints) and the beloved city; but fire descended from heaven and consumed them. [II Kings 1:10-12; Ezek. 38:2, 22.]
10Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
12I[also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books.
13And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works].
14Then death and Hades the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15And if anyone's [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

Offline Im_convincedmjalive

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This post and the other one above (I quoted from me) are from a thread I started back in July 2010.
:ugeek:

So yesterday I was doing some more digging around and I was reading up on Solomon,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon
Quote
"The Hebrew Bible credits Solomon as the builder of the First Temple in Jerusalem"
:geek: and his supposed affair with Queen of Sheba :geek: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Sheba
Quote
The Queen of Sheba was a monarch of the ancient kingdom of Sheba and is referred to in Habeshan history, the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament, and the Qur'an. She is widely assumed to have been a queen regnant, although there is no historical proof of this; in fact, she may have been a queen consort.

The location of her historical kingdom most likely included part of modern day Ethiopia and Eritrea,and perhaps Yemen as well.

:geek: And supposedly Solomon and Queen of Sheba had a son :geek: 

Quote
"An ancient compilation of Ethiopian legends, Kebra Negast ('the Glory of Kings'), is dated to seven hundred years ago and relates a history of Makeda and her descendants. In this account King Solomon is said to have seduced the Queen of Sheba and sired her son, Menelik I, who would become the first Emperor of Ethiopia."

:geek: And that is supposedly how The Ark of the Covenant got to the Church in Ethiopia, the same church that claims to have it and was going to reveal it to the world.

I then found this website and I agree with the final statements.
http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_issues4.php
Quote
The Forgotten Ark
Regardless of what happened to the Ark, the Scriptures suggest that it will never be found again. This comes as quite a shock to some Christians who have assumed that the Ark must be found before the Tribulation Temple can be built and animal sacrifice re-instituted. Others have simply assumed that the Ark would be replaced in the Holy of Holies when the Lord's Millennial Temple is built.

But Jeremiah says point blank that "the ark of the covenant of the Lord... shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they miss it, nor shall it be made again" (Jeremiah 3:16). The context of this passage is the Millennial reign of Jesus, so it does not rule out the possibility of a discovery prior to that time. Conceivably, the Ark could be discovered, and Satan could use its discovery to incite the rebuilding of a Temple where an apostate sacrificial system would be re-instituted. We know that such a Temple will be built, but I doubt if its construction will be motivated by the discovery of the Ark.

The Non-Essential Ark
The important point to keep in mind here is that the rediscovery of the Ark is not essential to the rebuilding of the Temple. After all, the Temple was rebuilt by Zerubbabel following the Babylonian captivity, and the Ark had already been lost by that time. There was no Ark in the Holy of Holies during the time when Jesus worshiped in the Temple.

Nor is the Ark needed for the Millennial Temple. Ezekiel describes the Temple in great detail (chapters 40-42), and he never mentions the Ark. There is a Holy of Holies (Ezekiel 41:4), but it is empty, and it is not separated from the Holy Place by a veil.

Jesus has already entered the heavenly Holy of Holies in our behalf (Hebrews 4:14-16, 8:1-6). He has torn away the veil that separated us from God, and He serves as our High Priest, having offered His own blood as the perfect sacrifice for our sins (Hebrews 9:11-16). He serves as our Mediator before the Father's throne (Hebrews 9:24-28).

Thus, during the Millennium, there will be no need for a human high priest or an Ark with a mercy seat. Jesus will serve as both king and high priest, and in that capacity, He will continue to serve as humanity's mercy seat. (Zechariah 6:12-13).

The True Ark
With regard to this concept of Christ as our mercy seat, let me add a penetrating insight which I picked up from John MacArthur, one of this country's greatest preachers. He pointed to a simple historical verse that contains a profound truth about Jesus being our mercy seat.

The verse is John 20:12. Speaking of Mary looking into the empty tomb of Jesus, the verse says, "she beheld two angels in white sitting, one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been lying." What Mary saw, MacArthur observed, was the new mercy seat, the perfect mercy seat.

Consider again what Mary saw. She witnessed two angels, one sitting at each end of the slab which had held the broken body of our Lord. That scene points us back to the Ark of the Covenant where two cherubim hovered over its blood splattered mercy seat!

There is no more need for the Ark. Jesus has fulfilled all that the Ark stood for. He was deity who took on flesh. He rendered complete obedience to the Law, being made perfect and becoming the source of our salvation (Hebrews 5:8-9). His blood was shed for our sins, and His victory is attested by the fact and the power of His resurrection.

Just as the Ark was designed to be a symbol of the presence of God in the midst of His people, Jesus is the ultimate expression of God's love and care and presence. He is our Ark. He is our Law. He is our Manna. He is our Budded Rod. And, thank God, He is our Mercy Seat.


Peace
:ugeek:

Online ~Souza~

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Im_convinced, interesting point of view, about Jesus being the Ark. Yet I really don't see Jesus coming back, there is just something in my mind that blocks that possibility, since it was made so very clear that Jesus was a human being.

I have to think about this some more, will get back to this tonight.

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Just came to mind: what if the ark is simply the barer of the truth? (we're taking over, we have the truth) We have been discussing many people who seem to have a hidden agenda even though they preach to spread nothing but the truth? (Alex Jones, Wikileaks etc.) Could they be the fake arks? Is that why we will know the true ark when we see/hear it?

Okay, I gotta run for work. I will think about it some more.

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Im_convinced, interesting point of view, about Jesus being the Ark. Yet I really don't see Jesus coming back, there is just something in my mind that blocks that possibility, since it was made so very clear that Jesus was a human being.

I have to think about this some more, will get back to this tonight.


Souza  WTF?? ?
The whole New Testament exists because of Jesus.
If we take the Bible as truth, we must take it all as truth, not only parts of it.


Offline paula-c

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The problem is that there are so many stories of the ark that it is not easy, but if no one having seen as it is said to have, for example these measures As exact:
 
 
Quote
  The Ark of the Covenant had a cubic capacity of 5,625 elbows or 3,575 cm. cubic, which multiplied by 100 is equivalent to the duration of a Hebrew year or distance nímina there from Earth to the Moon in its perigee.
 The total area would be 19.6 elbows or equivalent to 12.458.936 cm. whose turnover in million equals the diameter of the Earth, or the equivalent to the Area of the Tabernacle (1906,96 cubic cm) to divide it between 100. 
 

 
 
http://www.ranimirum.com/busca/index4.htm

Offline simalves

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OFF TOPIC : I know this is the last place to discuss Bieber, but something has been nagging me throughout, so since this thread also talks about Michael and Jesus here is something trivial.


2010 American Music Awards - Justin thanks Michael Jackson
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvBfDL1smhs[/youtube]
(starts at 1:10) I want to thank Michael Jackson, because without Michael Jackson, none of us would be here. So thank you so much.


2011 Video Music Awards - Justin thanks Jesus
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSwjrZUlzbg[/youtube]
I just want to say thank you so much, not only to God but to Jesus, because you know, I wouldn't be here without him. He has really blessed me. He has put me in this position. So I want to say thank you so much.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 02:08:55 PM by simalves »

Offline MissG

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Wow, so interesting. Need to read once again!

My interpretation of it it´s very simple:

-Ark burried and sealed somewhere, the same with Michael´s gold casket
-Ark contains the 10 commandments, May be Michael´s gold casket has some documents in it
-The disciples waited for Jesus and have been spreading his word in seach of truth. We are doing the same. Michael is our Jesus. We wait for his come back and mean time we search for truth and spread the message.
-Jesus was loved first and crucified after by his people, and the same happened to MJ.

There are some paralells but Michael is not the next messiah.
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Offline Dontwalkaway

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To me, Michael seems like the Jesus figure of our time.  The age of aquarius that is coming.  Jesus of Nazareth was over 2000 years ago in order to give messages to people at the start of the age of Pisces.  When they said Jesus was coming back I don't think they meant in the same exact physical body.  That body can't be maintained for 2000 or more years.  I think they meant the spirit or light body of Jesus.   In other words we have a second coming but he/she can look like an ordinary person.  We don't know what he/she would look like.  I think we have to go by how they act and what they do and say etc.  Also I think there may be an ark with holy tablets etc. but we won't know the real one.   The ark could also be a person who has the truth.  To me this is more important.  That real prophet/messiah/messenger would know what is real and what is fake.  I am hoping we well know it by our hearts.  All of our hearts have led us here.  Everything to me points in the direction of Michael.  It it started a very long time before the death hoax and it all makes sense.    One thing that confuses me is the difference between ArchAngel michael and Jesus and the son of man.  How are they different or are they the same ?  Archangel michael seems to be a warrior/fighter and Jesus more like a teacher.  Maybe the angel will be there at the same time as the messiah ????????  Some confusion.   What do you think ?
"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

Offline BeTheChange

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJINkbxM0VA[/youtube]
 
With L.O.V.E. always.
 
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline Love4Michael

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Thanks for posting that BeTheChange.  I've been enjoying that series/channel for quite a while now and think it's fantastic.
Always reach out to lend support and to help bear a heavy burden. 
There is no greater gift that you can give than your caring and love. 
Spread laughter and joy in your travels and carry love with you in abundant supply. 
Share life...share the world.

Offline Dontwalkaway

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so BetheChange, Are you thinking that Michael is ArchAngel Michael ?   The Warrior Angel ?
"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

Offline son

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Im_convinced, interesting point of view, about Jesus being the Ark. Yet I really don't see Jesus coming back, there is just something in my mind that blocks that possibility, since it was made so very clear that Jesus was a human being.

I have to think about this some more, will get back to this tonight.


Souza  WTF?? ?
The whole New Testament exists because of Jesus.
If we take the Bible as truth, we must take it all as truth, not only parts of it.



Seconded, Jesus' authority comes from his divine Nature. That's abundantly apparent when the New Testament is read. When you eliminate Jesus' divine nature (by saying he was just a human and Michael Jackson can take on the position of Messiah/Christ) you basically eliminate the whole foundation by which a Messiah can rule (by Christian standards at least).
If Michael is trying to build himself into the next Christ (which I doubt) than woe unto him: As Jesus himself says in Matthew 24:24,
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Unless you're suggesting Michael is divine some how, which actually contradicts what he said on the issue.

@Don'twalkaway

Technically, if I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is the Archangel Michael (ordinarily I would contest that but it actually fits with what I've been saying). It's their way of interpreting Jesus' unique more than human nature. In a sense in the development of Christianity their was conflicting views on the unique nature of Jesus but all of the differing factions more or less agreed that Jesus was more than a human and more than a Prophet. The council of Nicea established Jesus as fully God and fully man but there was no significant movement in early Christianity that contended that Jesus was merely a man (a part from what the critics of the faith stated with contempt.)

I guess it's possible for MJ to be some sort of prophetic forerunner to the Jesus' second coming (don't quote me on that though). I think the religious aspect of the hoax theory is a detour.