Explanation of 31 stars versus 32 stars on California Seal

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Offline 50th_State_Believer2

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Now I don't intend on disheartening anyone...but I thought that for us hoax believers to be taken seriously, we should also take every view point seriously and investigate possibilities in all fairness, to sift out suspicions from actual possibilities. I googled the topic of the 31 stars versus 32 stars on the California seal, as most people immediately assumed it added fact to the Hoax theory. But look at what Wikipedia had on the seal information: (there have been various versions redone of the seal through out the history of it...with minor details changed. The star count could have been one of the minor details that changed throughout history...what do you think?)  Here's the article from Wikipedia:

What Is the Great Seal?“ The Great Seal, or the Great Seal of the State of California as it is officially called, is the impression made on "all commissions, pardons and other public instruments to which the signature of the Governor is required" with the attestation of the Secretary of State; the impression, with or without "wafer," is made by a master die and counter die of an officially adopted design fixed in a seal press capable of exerting great pressure upon the document placed between the two parts of the die; it is also the impression made by the Secretary of State on papers certified over signature. For the Governor's papers the Great Seal serves the same purpose as a notarial seal on civil documents. This impression is the Great Seal. There have been many redesigns and reproductions of this seal -- they are not the Great Seal but only reproductions of it in many forms, sizes and even colors .... There has been and is only one Great Seal, there have been many redesigns and reproductions of the seal -- but there is only one Great Seal. There have been four designs and four master dies [1849, 1883, 1891, and 1937], all basically the same with variations in some minor details and in detail relations.

Offline ~Souza~

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The 31 stars mean that California was the 31st state. It's a Historical fact which cannot be changed. So a seal with 32 stars is not the proper seal. Minnesota is the 32nd state.

Offline 50th_State_Believer2

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Thank you Souza - this is what I mean - it's great that we can give and take info back and forth on a personal basis to educate ourselves. I'm glad you replied.  It's like a dance we are all in - stepping in and out, adding here and taking there...it's balance we should always seek. thanks again for the facts set straight.  bearhug

Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Exactly so why put 32 stars if it is California?


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Offline bec

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Because it's a hoax and it prevents MJ from being accused of entrapment by the media (or non-believers), or of committing fraud by impersonating a government institution.
Are you entertained?

Offline _Anna_

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The 31 stars mean that California was the 31st state. It's a Historical fact which cannot be changed. So a seal with 32 stars is not the proper seal. Minnesota is the 32nd state.
And one more thing is that the seal we see on the streams is not the one at the court, meaning they don't keep the camera focused on the wall during breaks. The seal was actually made to be shown as background on TV and streams. I don't believe it was accidental or an error. Such incompetence is not possible. If it had been just an accidental error, then it's like you mess up the flag for example- miss a star in the US flag, mess up the colurs order in another flag. Like in our flag- red-yellow-blue; put it blue-yellow-red and it's another country's flag.

In no way that was accidental.

But I'm thinking now- the wrong seal was just made for the streams. But the trial actually takes place at the court. If it takes place at the real court, then it's still real regardless the seal shown on TV. Wouldn't this still be entrapment or fraud, as long as it takes place in a real court with real people?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:28:33 AM by _Anna_ »

Offline 50th_State_Believer2

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ANNA---- I see your point. I was reading your comment and then thought - wait a minute...UNLESS the FAKE CALIFORNIA SEAL shown on the screen (not the one on the court room wall) is yet another MESSAGE from MICHAEL saying "clue clue clue! The entire trial and the outcome is set up!!! I am not dead, that was not a real pic of me on the gurney..." etc etc...
the symbolism behind the fake California seal is that this whole drama set in CALIFORNIA....IS ....FAKE!!!

Um...my apologies to those followers who already figured this out...I don't intend to appear naive...it just clicked in my head. Maybe I am a bit slow. lol.. geek/

Offline bec

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Quote

No, I don't think doing it at a real courthouse in a real courtroom constitutes entrapment so long as the proceedings are clearly not official in nature. The state seal makes everything official government business, from documents to letterheads to courtrooms. A fake seal renders these things invalid. There was another fake seal in the last 2 years as I recall, DC perhaps? Off the top of my head I don't remember which document but it was also something obviously inaccurate about the seal. It was CA also.
(edited to add: what I'm trying to say is that a state seal is like a government signature. A falsified signature renders a document, transaction, or agreement invalid. Forging a signature is done with the goal of being an exact replica, ie performed with the intent to deceive. In this case, the incorrect seal is not fraudulent because this replica is clearly and obviously not the same... visible by anyone who cares to notice.)
Are you entertained?

Offline 50th_State_Believer2

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 OMG! OMIGOD OMIGOD...out of curiousity, I googled what the Minnesota seal stood for. Read this! (look at the bold part)

It depicts a barefoot farmer plowing his field near St. Anthony Falls on the Mississippi River. His axe is driven into a tree trunk, with his rifle and powderhorn nearby.[dot] An Indian on horseback rides south, a summer setting sun in the background. The state motto, "L'Etoile du Nord", or "Star of the North", appears on a banner above the scenery. [/dot] Around these images is the outermost ring, which reads "The Great Seal of the State of Minnesota". The bottom of the outer ring contains the date 1858, which is when Minnesota gained statehood.

Now call me overenthusiastic...or maybe someone has already figured this out. The man on horseback..rides south...a summer setting sun in the background..which symbolizes how we all first felt and have felt regarding the possibility of MJ being gone...dead...the sun sets - darkness falls..BUT LOOK...night appears and the STAR OF THE NORTH...the same star that in biblical times, gave a lightened PATH TO BETHLEHEM... where the mystery would unfold, where the new leader would be born...Now I'm not saying MJ is Jesus...I'm just saying the symbolism could be a message...or else the fake California Seal could easily have been 30 stars instead of 32. Maybe there was a reason Minnesota was chosen to be the FAKE number of stars for the California Seal...maybe it was that message in the picture of the Minnesota seal...the NORHTERN STAR that shines brightly to lead us to the news... the truth...the upcoming event!

Sound crazy? Sorry...

Offline applehead250609

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OMG! OMIGOD OMIGOD...out of curiousity, I googled what the Minnesota seal stood for. Read this! (look at the bold part)

It depicts a barefoot farmer plowing his field near St. Anthony Falls on the Mississippi River. His axe is driven into a tree trunk, with his rifle and powderhorn nearby.[dot] An Indian on horseback rides south, a summer setting sun in the background. The state motto, "L'Etoile du Nord", or "Star of the North", appears on a banner above the scenery. [/dot] Around these images is the outermost ring, which reads "The Great Seal of the State of Minnesota". The bottom of the outer ring contains the date 1858, which is when Minnesota gained statehood.

Now call me overenthusiastic...or maybe someone has already figured this out. The man on horseback..rides south...a summer setting sun in the background..which symbolizes how we all first felt and have felt regarding the possibility of MJ being gone...dead...the sun sets - darkness falls..BUT LOOK...night appears and the STAR OF THE NORTH...the same star that in biblical times, gave a lightened PATH TO BETHLEHEM... where the mystery would unfold, where the new leader would be born...Now I'm not saying MJ is Jesus...I'm just saying the symbolism could be a message...or else the fake California Seal could easily have been 30 stars instead of 32. Maybe there was a reason Minnesota was chosen to be the FAKE number of stars for the California Seal...maybe it was that message in the picture of the Minnesota seal...the NORHTERN STAR that shines brightly to lead us to the news... the truth...the upcoming event!

Sound crazy? Sorry...

WOW!!!!


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Well they say the sky's the limit,lol but is seems that for you my friends there is no LIMIT,lol  lolol/,you are all so INTELIGENT and CLEVER.Good find, /bravo/!!!!

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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Offline Coco

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Quote

No, I don't think doing it at a real courthouse in a real courtroom constitutes entrapment so long as the proceedings are clearly not official in nature. The state seal makes everything official government business, from documents to letterheads to courtrooms. A fake seal renders these things invalid. There was another fake seal in the last 2 years as I recall, DC perhaps? Off the top of my head I don't remember which document but it was also something obviously inaccurate about the seal. It was CA also.
(edited to add: what I'm trying to say is that a state seal is like a government signature. A falsified signature renders a document, transaction, or agreement invalid. Forging a signature is done with the goal of being an exact replica, ie performed with the intent to deceive. In this case, the incorrect seal is not fraudulent because this replica is clearly and obviously not the same... visible by anyone who cares to notice.)

:shock:

I've been thinking...

Are other seals put up in courtrooms?
(As well as the one of the state the courtroom is in.)

Why was this seal filmed? Is it the only type (or one) in the courtroom?
Was it filmed intentionally, or did it just so happen that it was?
(Filmed to cause questioning, doubt, etc...)

"A fake seal renders these things invalid."
Does everyone in the courtroom/involved in the trial recognize or understand that the proceedings going on, are of a false nature?

I think, that's about it... I'm going crazy with thoughts. :lol:

Offline bec

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Why are people having so much trouble believing this is a movie?
Are you entertained?

Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Smile you are in candid camera!!  lolol/ lolol/


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Offline applehead250609

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Smile you are in candid camera!!  lolol/ lolol/

Lol all4love you are so sweet  :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!!!
"You've just been punk'd!! lolol/ lolol/ lolol/ geek/


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Offline curls

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Why are people having so much trouble believing this is a movie?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.  ~Confucius
 

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Why are people having so much trouble believing this is a movie?


years of media saturation and blind consumerism has dumbed up (aussie slang) the human race. only a handful / minority, (believers included in this minority) actually think for themselves and question what they see...
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


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Offline Billie_Jean13

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He's coming, not long now before the BAM!!!!!
we have been having massive storms here and its been messing up the internet and tv reception so im not totally up to dtae with the trial but i can feel it....
 
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Offline steph

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I`ve always thought it has to be a movie, there`s just to many strange things that don`t make sense.
In all movies there`s a start , middle and end.We must be near the end by now lol !

Offline PureLove

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Because it's a hoax and it prevents MJ from being accused of entrapment by the media (or non-believers), or of committing fraud by impersonating a government institution.

 /bravo/

So nobody can say that there were no clues to show people this is a hoax.

Offline AThousandTimes

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You guys are so incredible! The non-believers probably think this is a coincidence but come on, that can't be.... 32 stars would be a HUGE mistake! That's indeed what someone above me said like changing the flag colors. You get another country, so in this case, another state. It can't be legal.

Now we have a Michael JOSEPH Jackson and a trial that takes place in California and we've got a fake California seal...  :lol: this just screams HOAX!!!

Offline Galaxy

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Why are people having so much trouble believing this is a movie?
Thank you!

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Offline trublu

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Has anyone noticed that if you go to TMZ now that the live stream of the court appearance of the hollywood arson suspect also has 32 stars? Sorry I don't know how to post a photo.

Is that normal because it's the same court room? I'm confused!

Offline Tink

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TMZ and reality, please don't confuse the two. They may just focus on what THEY had in their file.
I did find this site, where you can purchase any state, including CA:
http://www.bronzememorials.net/State-Seal-Aluminum.html
Scroll down - even IT has the 31.

The arsonist, that isn't fake, btw! Which leads me to believe that TMZ just got lazy.
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