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MaryK

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Tink, how about uploading the image to photobucket or imageshack? Did you try that already?
Once you´ve done that you get a direct link which you can insert while posting by using the "insert image" icon.
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You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



I'm going to ask something, probably stupid, but, why do they put an intubation tube and leave it on a dead body?  What is it for?
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LoveShyMichael

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When my father was sick & in hospital & when he was getting sicker, & required the breathing tube full time, & when it was apparent he wasn't going to make it, they took out the large breathing tube, & went to the smaller breathing tube, gave him more morphine enough to feel comfortable, & when he did pass, there was no breathing tube, & actually I stayed in the room at least an hour or more after he died, & they removed all breathing tubes, & IV's, he looked totally at peace with absolutely tubes, machines, nothing..

He had died, so there was no need to keep any tubes, machines, IV's, they even wheeled out the machines out of his room while I was in there spending my last hour with my dad.

The only thing the nurse did was after all tubes, IV'S, machines we're removed, she came in to put a rolled up towel under his chin to keep his mouth closed, which was mostly done because she thought I'd feel more comfortable spending that time with my dad with his mouth closed. Either way it didn't bother me, it was my dad.

So I don't know why "Michael" would've had pictures AFTER he's pronouned dead, to continue to have a tube coming out of his mouth. Doesn't make any sense to me. If he's dead, he DOESN'T need a breathing tube. What for?
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Tink

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When my father was sick & in hospital & when he was getting sicker, & required the breathing tube full time, & when it was apparent he wasn't going to make it, they took out the large breathing tube, & went to the smaller breathing tube, gave him more morphine enough to feel comfortable, & when he did pass, there was no breathing tube, & actually I stayed in the room at least an hour or more after he died, & they removed all breathing tubes, & IV's, he looked totally at peace with absolutely tubes, machines, nothing..

He had died, so there was no need to keep any tubes, machines, IV's, they even wheeled out the machines out of his room while I was in there spending my last hour with my dad.

The only thing the nurse did was after all tubes, IV'S, machines we're removed, she came in to put a rolled up towel under his chin to keep his mouth closed, which was mostly done because she thought I'd feel more comfortable spending that time with my dad with his mouth closed. Either way it didn't bother me, it was my dad.

So I don't know why "Michael" would've had pictures AFTER he's pronouned dead, to continue to have a tube coming out of his mouth. Doesn't make any sense to me. If he's dead, he DOESN'T need a breathing tube. What for?

Purely for Shock Value. People in this day & age in America, see an alleged dead body, and quickly turn away...the ick factor makes them look away.

@LoveShyMichael: I truly believe that's what they would've done, if he were truly deceased. Would you want your kids to see you like THIS!?

Oh...wow.
I sure wouldn't.
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Black & Proud! I'm like the Oracle/Batgirl, who helps Batman in the comic books. I believe in "Comic Book justice."


I was with my best friend when she died,god bless her.she had no tubes in,and nothing under her chin to keep her mouth closed,but her mouth was closed.oh dear cant believe I,m saying this,sorry,cant believe shes gone.
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 strange to see the body has a pillow under his head , or at least it looks like it , when doctors working on a patient they need a flat surboard tho?

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“In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.”
― Michael Jackson

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Tink

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strange to see the body has a pillow under his head , or at least it looks like it , when doctors working on a patient they need a flat surboard tho?

Only paramedics use one of those, for transport as far as I know. Once in the hospital, they have machines to take over breathing, and they can even do heart massage from the inside - like that doctor said. As long as artificial respiration is going on, oxygen getting to the BRAIN, you have a chance to be brought back to your heart taking back over, even an hour plus later. OH. WOW.

Does anyone also realize, that a doctor can't release information, without the family's permission, especially if a patient's alive!? Just thought I'd toss that in.


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I was with my best friend when she died,god bless her.she had no tubes in,and nothing under her chin to keep her mouth closed,but her mouth was closed.oh dear cant believe I,m saying this,sorry,cant believe shes gone.

@missudi - I'm so very sorry for your loss...it's different, when your loved one dies with you there. But her spirit was glad, you know. Best friends to the end, it really means something important!

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Black & Proud! I'm like the Oracle/Batgirl, who helps Batman in the comic books. I believe in "Comic Book justice."


still the position of the bed, or maybe a pillow under his head, it is to let the patient feel comfortable tho.
So to me it is odd.

 :)
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“In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.”
― Michael Jackson

I only know this because I am really morbid ok. It takes up to 12 hours for full rigor to set in his body may have still been pliable at this stage. I believe this is a real dead body because in the later photo you can see how his skin is darkening where due to gravity blood is pooling in his body. Whether it is who its meant to be well I wouldn't be here if I believed that.
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Just a thought too how do you know how long this person has been dead all we have to go on is what we are told. This is a VERY recently dead person. In the first photo it looks like they took their last breath and snap! Seriously you start to change colour quite quickly wierd if you ask me. Having been around a dead body for quite some time after death something is certainly dodgy with the body.
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Okay, so the one picture on the gurny is from the hospital...right?  Well, I can maaaybe see the tube being in there.  I have my doubts, but it is possible...I guess.  But WHY would the tube still be in the picture at autopsy?  They didn't do the autopsy that day or evening, did they?  They would have had plenty of time to take it out.  And does that mean that the tube was still in the body when they put him in the helecopter?  This does not make sense.  Also, what is the red sore in the chest?  Is this where they tried to do resusitation?
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Tink

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Okay, so the one picture on the gurny is from the hospital...right?  Well, I can maaaybe see the tube being in there.  I have my doubts, but it is possible...I guess.  But WHY would the tube still be in the picture at autopsy?  They didn't do the autopsy that day or evening, did they?  They would have had plenty of time to take it out.  And does that mean that the tube was still in the body when they put him in the helecopter?  This does not make sense.  Also, what is the red sore in the chest?  Is this where they tried to do resusitation?

I do wish to point out something very important here: THAT GURNEY IS NOT USED AT UCLA, especially not at the time Period when Michael was brought in, okay? People have verified it, cross verified it. Those are sent to like, oh, old county hospitals. They're not at the new hospitals. Where I had emergency surgery at last year, I was a smart ass, and pointed out to my bf, "Look, see? UCLA had THESE gurneys, not the straight bars!" He just looked at the doc, and said, "She's hallucinating from the pain again!" And they upped my morphine - again.  Little did he realize, I was still wide-awake, heh.

The red sore, was allegedly from them using the epinephrine needle into the heart.

Here's info from a Paramedic:

"Epinephrine (adrenalin) is a catecholemine produced by the adrenal glands, and its secretion is controlled by the sympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system. It acts mainly to increase the rate and strength of cardiac contraction, and to constrict peripheral blood vessels, in order to maintan adequate supply of blood to vital organs when the body is stressed. It also acts to dilate the small airways, stimulate the start of slower (but longer lasting) measures of maintaining adequate blood supply, and mobilise energy stores for instant use. There are other effects but these are the main ones.

As a paramedic, I am authorised to use adrenalin in managing:
- cardiac arrest (intravenous)
- severe asthma that has deteriorated beyond effective inhalational remedies (intramuscular)
- severe allergic reactions (intramuscular)

Almost all adrenalin is given intravenously or by intramuscular injection. Putting it down an airway is not very effective because you need to use twice as much to get the same result as an IV dose, because it has to cross the respiratory membrane to get into the blood. And as for the direct injection into the heart....this is very much an emergency procedure limited to very specific circumstances."

In other words, direct heart injection is only used for immediate heart restart.

Here's another Paramedic's POV:
"Early defibrilliation takes precendence over everything else when starting CPR, so one paramedic will prepare the LifePak (or similar defib machine) while the other(s) commence CPR.

Once connected, the machine is allowed to run its protocol (usually 3 shocks, one minute of CPR, 3 more shocks), before any more elborate care is attempted.

At this point, airway management wil be upgraded from a simple oral airway to either a laryngeal mask airway or an endotracheal tube. Another minute of high quality CPR will follow.

If there is still no recovery, an IV access will be established in a large bore vein (usually the antecubital fossa in the elbow). A freely flowing normal saline drip is started, followed by 1 ml doses of adrenalin 1:1000. Each dose is separated by a couple of minutes of CPR.

The action of adrenalin in this scenario is not just to create some cardiac stimulation. It also acts on the veins to cause peripheral vasoconstriction, thus forcing blood back into the torso to boost venous return to the heart to boost output. This action helps to move the drug towards the heart, in concert with circulation provided by CPR.

Increased cardiac ouput, albeit by CPR, helps to improve coronary circulation to the heart muscle. The aim of the whole procedure is to get enough oxygen into the cells of the heart muscle to get it back into normal function."

I've been both a passenger in an ambulance, and rode shotgun upfront, with a friend in the back. In both situations, we were critical but stabilized. They chose NOT to run the sirens, as driving fast could potentially destabilize broken bones. Not fun, but as far as I know? You don't run sirens if patient is ALIVE and stable! You run sirens if they're NOT STABLE, and you're running hot, rushing with everyone on code BLUE, ready with crash carts and everything.

If someone's dead at their home, the coroner picks them up, not the paramedics; the police immediately collect evidence, in conjunction with the Coroner's Office. Ergo, I must summarize whomever it was, was STABLE, BREATHING, heart was beating, on the way to the hospital. Siren's are for those in dire danger.
Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 03:04:39 AM by Tink
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Black & Proud! I'm like the Oracle/Batgirl, who helps Batman in the comic books. I believe in "Comic Book justice."


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2good2btrueTopic starter

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Check out these two comparisons.I believe this is the original photo taken from the real life crimes shows.its a double, but OMG..he is almost identical to the picture..other than his face head and the blacked areas.

You can also notice the same reflections from the  autopsy table..........
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In the picture where it suppose to be MJ at autospy, the right leg shows a big red scar or mark.  Is that where he had that spider bite?  And would there still be a big scar from that?  Not sure when it happened.   Or is this probably from something else?  I know back when he supposedly *died*, 20/20 did a show and showed pictures of the spider bite, but then the media and their doctors who already form opinions speculated that it was from an IV that leaked and not a spider bite.
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