"ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

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Offline scorpionchik

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"ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 07, 2011, 07:31:56 PM
PEARL J TWEETED THIS VIDEO FROM TMZ. THE LADY READS VERDICT CALLING MICHAEL 'ALLEGED' VICTIM ISTEAD OF PROVED VICTIM.... VERY ODD!

http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-verdict-guilty/?adid=hero1
EndlesslovetoMJ

Offline pepper

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 07, 2011, 08:27:10 PM
Yes! She says "alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson"  "alleged date June 25, 2009"

Here is video of the entire reading of verdict  (TMZ had a shortened version)

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/11/07/nr-sot-murray-trial-verdict.cnn

Offline PureLove

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 07, 2011, 09:00:33 PM
Yes, it is because there is NO victim at all.

Offline Jennie

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 07, 2011, 09:05:34 PM
I thought that was odd as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged

I went to look for the definition of the word on wikipedia and this is what came up:

An allegation (also called adduction) is a claim of a fact by a party in a pleading, which the party claims to be able to prove. Allegations remain assertions without proof, until they can be proved.[1]
 
Generally in a civil complaint a plaintiff alleges facts sufficient to establish all the elements of the claim and thus states a cause of action. The plaintiff must then carry the burden of proof and the burden of persuasion in order to succeed in the lawsuit.
 
A defendant can allege affirmative defenses in its answer to the complaint.
 

Offline Aidan_81

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 07, 2011, 10:04:07 PM
Anyone studying law here? From US?
Guess we should wait for Nov 29 when Judge
has his final word, maybe "alleged" is normally used term,
anyone watched any other recent US trials with conviction?
When I have time I'll try to clear this one, maybe something online, but better get comment from US law ppl if you know any.

Offline gwynned

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 07, 2011, 11:37:19 PM
It is the criminal that is 'alleged', at least until guilt has been proven.  I guess they're saying the victim is alleged, because they haven't proven who that is yet!!!

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 12:17:54 AM
This shows you how the majority of Humanity have lost the ability to "think for themselves!!! Why hasn't anyone else picked up on this???? This is a Blatent attempt to open some eyes, but most can't see what is right in front of them!!!

OH Michael...How do we break through to them?? Follow the path of LOVE... Love you guys!

Offline scorpionchik

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 01:49:32 AM
Actually, the term "ALLEGED VICTIM" can be related to 'be proven beyond reasonable doubt" doctrine, which in the USA means prosecutor successfully proved, but it does not mean Murray killed Michael.
In the contrary, Casey Anthony was found NOT guilty, but it does not mean she did not kill her daughter but prosecutor failed to prove it.
In Nov. 29th will be CM sentencing how long he will be in prison; it should not change "ALLEGED" victim term to proven victim if that is a common term. But I doubt so.
EndlesslovetoMJ

Offline stefy66

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 06:21:19 AM
Alleged victim but....the toy is not alleged! Anyone has seen it in the court room yesterday?:-)))))

Offline simalves

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 07:33:30 AM
Actually 'alleged' means that an event happened but there was no third witness to prove it. Just the victim and perpetrator. So the part that Michael died is not alleged, it is alleged that he is a victim, meaning that Conrad caused it.

Offline _Anna_

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 08:07:04 AM
Actually 'alleged' means that an event happened but there was no third witness to prove it. Just the victim and perpetrator. So the part that Michael died is not alleged, it is alleged that he is a victim, meaning that Conrad caused it.

But, I simply don't get it. In OJ Simpson was? In Casey Anthony was? In Casey Anthony no one saw the crime taking place and  her daughter wasn't called ALLEGED victim, was she?  Do you have an official statement, doc., to backup this?  You say the victim part is alleged - then if they don't know beyond a reasonable doubt that Murray killed him, why was he convicted? If Murray didn't cause it, how did they reach the GUILTY verdict?

 I don't understand anymore
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 08:50:13 AM by _Anna_ »

Offline StrangerInCalifornia

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 08:52:12 AM
I believe the proper way to state it would be that Murray was the alleged perpetrator of acts of involuntary manslaughter against victim Michael Jackson. Although Murray would no longer be alleged perpetrator anymore since he was found guilty. There should NOT be an alleged victim or date if Michael were really dead.

Offline wishingstar

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 09:28:24 AM
The judge was the first one to first one to point this out.  When he opened the verdict envelope he said there was a typo.....a wrong date was written for the "alleged incident" it was written June 9, 2009 changed by juror #3 to June  25th, 2009.......(16 days difference 1+6=7) .......and that the juror had made "squiggly lines":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdqBNwWqJyQ

I didn't see this info posted....sorry if has already been pointed out.
What happened June 9th...I am a bit foggy, but it seems there was something....it's a familiar.  How is it they wrote 9th and not 25th....big difference......

Blessings

Offline gwynned

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 12:24:54 PM
According to this ABC news report, the jury was not sequestered even during the admittedly short deliberations.  Really?????  NOW they're going to an undisclosed location?

And, is there anyone on the planet who would not flinch at being proven to be the cause of the death of the King of Pop. 

It's gotta be tough for ol' Diane Sawyer to know she's covering for a bunch of lies.  Not the best actor, but these have to be tough times for her.

Offline paula-c

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 12:49:30 PM
"Alleged "  It is said of something which is assumed as true, but may not be so

Offline ~Souza~

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 08, 2011, 01:27:34 PM
I thought it's strange they name the victim at all. I have not heard before that they do that, they just refer to the count and don't name the specific victim. The addition of 'alleged' here should start ringing some bells for people, but I think that if Mike would have walked into that courtroom himself, saying it was all a hoax, they wouldn't even have noticed.

Offline simplyme

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:46:08 AM
PEARL J TWEETED THIS VIDEO FROM TMZ. THE LADY READS VERDICT CALLING MICHAEL 'ALLEGED' VICTIM ISTEAD OF PROVED VICTIM.... VERY ODD!

http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-verdict-guilty/?adid=hero1

When I heard the clerk say that I figured it would get you all going.  First, let me say that I taught for about six years and language was my primary focus.  My daughter says when she's taking a language related test that she's keeps thinking about the things I "pounded" into her head.  Second, Pearl Jr. is not the greatest example to listen to regarding anything language related.   She butchers the language and at times hurts my ears.  I have to say though that she seems to be a better lately.  Anywho - the word "alleged"  has many meanings aside from those that we hear regularly and are most familiar with ...that's a fact.

Offline gwynned

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 11:37:27 AM
Here is one definition of 'alleged.' 

presumed: asserted but not yet proven to have taken place, have been committed, or be as described

So, we can say the death has not been proven to have taken place.

Offline Aidan_81

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 12:12:56 PM
"Alleged victim" is normally used say before trial and before verdict.
I'm not sure it can be used after conviction/verdict.
That's why Nov.29 will be interesting.
I thought after jurors decided "guilty", the whole thing stops being "alleged",
but maybe it's verdict that actually changes "alleged victim" to just "victim" etc.
It's different in my country, so it's hard to judge.
Anyone from US with a relative who is attorney or maybe a law student?

Offline _Anna_

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 12:16:23 PM
Adrian, I don't know, but neither in OJ's trial, nor in Casey Anthony case, nor in any other case I went and watched on youtube I heard "alleged victim" while reading the verdict. It was "victim".

Offline bec

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 12:50:27 PM
Alleged=not proven in a court of law.

So MJ's death is not proven in a court of law, and his death occurring on 6/25/09 is not proven in a court of law either. Plain and simple, end of deliberations.

Murray was convicted of manslaughtering someone who's death is only alleged. How's that for fucked up stuff the general public doesn't notice?
Are you entertained?

Offline traceys_home

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 01:31:44 PM
Alleged=not proven in a court of law.

So MJ's death is not proven in a court of law, and his death occurring on 6/25/09 is not proven in a court of law either. Plain and simple, end of deliberations.

Murray was convicted of manslaughtering someone who's death is only alleged. How's that for fucked up stuff the general public doesn't notice?

You hit the nail on the head! Also, did anyone else notice that when HLN, played the trial on t.v., they always said "there's the Great Seal of the State of California, folks" during every single court beak? After I heard that over a hundred times, I noticed that the seal they showed on T.V. had 32 stars on it. So I paused the t.v. and counted the stars. The real Seal of California has 31 stars as it was the 31st state that became part of the union/USA.

I just walked out of a courtroom yesterday (stupid traffic tickets  :cry:) and there were 31 stars on the seal behind the judges desk. This was not a real trial IMO!

:mrgreen:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 01:33:52 PM by traceys_home »

Offline curls

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 09, 2011, 02:45:55 PM
Slightly off topic, but seeing as the seal with 32 stars has been brought up, does anyone know if anyone got a proper answer from the court when they were phoning about it last week?  Last I heard a nice lady was going to call back!

Offline Jennie

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 11, 2011, 12:18:38 AM
Another odd thing, they said "alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson"   BUT I just started reading Jermaine's book "You are not alone" and I just read last night that he said somehow it circulated that his middle name was Joseph  BUT that it was really Joe. /pull hair/  I would think that of all places, a court of law would have your name straight.

And here's something else I'm aching to throw in here, Judge Pastor looked phony with his exagerated smilling all the time.    Smile for the camera!!   /judge/

Offline Catherine23

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Re: "ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

  • on: November 11, 2011, 01:05:13 AM
Another odd thing, they said "alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson"   BUT I just started reading Jermaine's book "You are not alone" and I just read last night that he said somehow it circulated that his middle name was Joseph  BUT that it was really Joe. /pull hair/  I would think that of all places, a court of law would have your name straight.

And here's something else I'm aching to throw in here, Judge Pastor looked phony with his exagerated smilling all the time.    Smile for the camera!!   /judge/

I noticed the name as well! You would think for such a 'serious' trial on the death of MJ, they would use his correct, official name. I had not picked up on 'alleged' being used yet but will have another look later.

Catherine23
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