911 CALL NUMEROLOGY - 12:20, OR 12:21??

  • 163 Replies
  • 14079 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TS_comments

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 239
    • Show only replies by TS_comments

911 CALL NUMEROLOGY - 12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:19:44 PM
Introduction

This is not level 7 (this information will be of some value, though, when it’s time for level 7).  Also, this is a fairly long and detailed post, much like the Updates.  However, this is not really an update either, because it is not new territory; instead, this is just further documentation to establish what I have already said about the numerology and 911 call timing.  The questions and objections have been raised primarily in the TIAI September 27 (Official Trial Thread); however, the answers and details are too long for that thread, so I have started a whole new thread for this discussion.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Outline

Introduction
     Outline
     Just a Few Examples
     Even If “TS Is Fake”

Timing Discrepancies
     Timing From Dona Norris
     Timing From the Phone Call
     Timing From Steve Ruda
     Timing From Richard Senneff
     Timing From Alberto Alvarez

7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
     #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Just a Few Examples

Here are just a few out of many posts, on the subject of the 911 call (12:20 or 12:21?).  I have not given any user names here, because it is not my intent to focus on the errors of any particular person; instead, I want to focus on the concepts which are wrong (regardless of who wrote them).

“Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 …”

 “This clearily [clearly] shows the call wasnt placed at 12.21.04 as TS insistes [insists] it was. He said the button was pressed at 12.21.04 and NOT earlier, to be sure its not 12.20. This means this theory falls. Together with the others tied to it.”

 “Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys [destroys] a lot of ‘proof’ imho.........”

And this post is in answer to the above question: “‘cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!   I’m sorry guys!   Time will bear me out...  poor TS!”

Unfortunately, even after nearly two and half years, some still have not learned their lesson: “Just because it’s in print, doesn’t mean it’s the gospel”—and that INCLUDES things in print shown at court trials!  After all, do we really believe everything that was shown in court during the 2005 trial?  And if not, then why are some so gullible and accept without question everything stated in this 2011 trial?  Actually, when you have really learned your lesson well, you will question EVERYTHING that you have been taught from a child (news, science, history, religion, etc)—not merely the things which are directly related to MJ and/or this hoax.

Some eagerly accept everything that they see and hear in this trial, without thinking for themselves and questioning the reliability of the evidence presented.  So let’s do some REAL investigation, rather than slapping an “investigation” label on that which is actually nothing better than assuming it’s impossible for documents to be falsified.

I do not make the above statements to those who are sincerely asking for clarification about the 911 call timing.  Rather, it is long-overdue and relatively mild rebuke (mild in comparison to what is deserved) for those who have failed time and again to debunk anything from TS; and yet when something else comes along, they can’t resist the burning urge to try it again—and expose their own errors one more time!  Their failures only increase their itching desire to find something that they can pounce upon, and claim the victory before their eyes have even had enough time to focus on what they have pounced upon!  Will they ever learn?

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Even If “TS Is Fake” …

Have you ever noticed that many non-believers would rather have MJ dead, than admit that they’re wrong (and we are right)?  What kind of so-called “love” for MJ is that—rather have him dead, than alive???  But a similar attitude can be seen even among some of those who do not think MJ is dead; I’m sure that you can see the parallel, if you want to, without me spelling it out.

So for the sake of those who are desperately wishing that they could disprove TS, and the very clear messages in the numerology: let’s pretend for a bit that TS is indeed fake, and see whether all the other numerology collapses on this one point alone (the timing of the 911 call).

Well, these 9 categories below would still be true (from my $999 reward):
d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)
e. 77 days from “death” to 9-9-09 [autopsy finalized on 9-9-09, etc]
f. 7 days from “burial” to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)
g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999
h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998
i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999
j. 777 + 999 = 1776
k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, ... 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111
l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)

Furthermore, even if there never was any 911 call at any time whatsoever—yet we still have several things to show 1221, and the end of the world theme:
a. MJ beliefs in Revelation—the 144,000, the new earth (old world must end before any new earth)
b. the “four years” in TII (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)
c. the 2012 movie (Sony movie, released right after TII, set in the same four years 2009-2012, the “Jackson” name, they thought he was dead but he was not, and many other parallels discussed already)
d. the FBI files were 333 pages, planned release on 12-21 (2009)
e. The retweet of Paris, about 2012 and BAM

Additionally, even if TS is totally fake, yet we STILL have to face the fact that the 911 call IS associated with 12:21—regardless of HOW it was done!  It’s the time that has been reported by the media everywhere.  And 1221 was also the only number circled by Senneff on his sheet, as if it had more importance than 1226 and other numbers {1:30, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Last but not least: the $999 reward; after more than a year, nobody has even come within a thousand miles of collecting it.  Why not, if TS and the numerology is so easy to debunk???  Notice above that I left out the first three (a, b, & c) from the $999 reward list, because a, b, & c referred to the 911 call (but now I am including them below).  Yet only one of these three has anything to do with the seconds—and even that one says nothing of how it was done.  So if this was a big blunder by TS: then just step forward with your math, showing it was coincidence (less than one-in-a-million), and collect your $999 reward—what are you waiting for?!?

a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21 [regardless of HOW that timing was accomplished!]
b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7
c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timing Discrepancies

Now it’s time to take a very detailed examination of the timing, and see once again who doesn’t know what they are talking about—TS, or the critics of TS??  The fact is that there are things which don’t add up in what we have been told about the 911 call timing (contradictions, just like everything else in this circus).  Therefore, we should look for indications of what is real and what is fake; it is of course possible that it’s all fake, but it is not possible that it’s all real.

To save space, I will use the following abbreviations:
BHPD = Beverly Hills Police Department
LAFD = Los Angeles Fire Department
FS71 = Fire Station #71

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Timing From Dona Norris





The above picture (identified by PPP) was explained by Norris as follows:
12:20:18; TK009 = Trunk line #9 was captured by the incoming call
12:20:21; RI = Ringing, the call started ringing at the console
12:20:26; CO005 = Connect, operator pushed button to answer the call (note: for the incoming call to ring and be answered, it took eight seconds—in an emergency??)
12:20:50; TT009 = Transfer Through, operator pushed the transfer button (to LAFD)
12:21:03; DI005 = Disconnect, operator pushed the hang up button
12:21:04; RLS = Released, the call was no longer in the BHPD trunking system
00:00:46; DUR = Duration of call at BHPD, from 12:20:18 to 12:21:04 (note: 40+ seconds seems awfully slow, for merely transferring a call that is a life and death emergency!)

If you listen carefully to Dona’s testimony, you will see that she is not the operator who took the 911 call {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rRtsRVQiRU}.  Surely, the descriptions that Dona gave are not too complicated for a 911 operator to understand, and explain in court.  Then why wasn’t the actual operator called to the stand, instead of Dona?  Even if the operator worked a different job now, she could still be a witness in this case (others have had a change in job since 6-25-09, and yet they testified).  Since Dona did not actually take the call, she could easily report the above timeline with a straight face—even if it was fabricated.  And if it was not fabricated: then why wasn’t the audio made public back in June 2009, when the LAFD 911 audio was made public?

Also, why doesn’t the latitude/longitude on PPP match the LAFD call screen, or the cell tower list?
BHPD (PPP): 34.08167100, -118.414228 (Beverly Hills Hotel)
LAFD call screen: 34.08118800, -118.425086 (100 N Carolwood)
Cell towers: http://www.city-data.com/towers/lmobile-Beverly-Hills-California.html#ixzz1bjAH4jKU

The following evidence indicates that BHPD timing is wrong (possibly even fabricated):
•   Total time (40+ seconds) is unreasonably long for merely transferring an emergency call
•   The actual BHPD 911 operator did not testify
•   BHPD audio was not made public in June 2009, when the LAFD audio was made public
•   Lat/lon on PPP does not match lat/lon on LAFD call screen or cell tower list
•   LAFD timing does not match BHPD timing (which will be shown extensively below); and LAFD timing seems much more reliable (for all of the above reasons, plus we know that LAFD actually did respond with emergency vehicles and paramedics—so their timing is probably real)
•   The testimony and cell records of Alberto Alvarez

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Timing From the Phone Call

For the sake of reference, and timing calculations, the following is a list from the 911 call audio played in court; the times are taken from the video (which starts at 0:03, so subtract 3 seconds for actual times).   Notice the BHPD portion is about half a minute long, and the LAFD portion is two minutes long.

0:03, BHPD talking begins (notice that the audio quality is worse than the LAFD part)
0:28, beeps in transfer process
0:33, short ring
0:35, LAFD answers
0:42 to 0:49, 100 North Carolwood Drive, Los Angeles California, 90077
0:57 to 1:01, 909-273-4846
1:04 to 1:12, a gentleman needs help, he’s not breathing
1:14 to 1:17, 50 years old sir, (“50” repeated by dispatcher)
1:18 to 1:27, unconscious, not breathing
1:28, begin discussion on patient location (floor versus bed)
2:29, less than a mile away, be there soon
2:35, end
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg366005#msg366005;
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news#from=embediframe}.

Also, in order to make the events being discussed very clear, I am going to use three different words that have very distinct meanings: alarm (FS71 is alerted that there is an emergency), asphalt (FS71 trucks are rolling on the pavement), arrival (FS71 has reached the location of the emergency).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Timing From Steve Ruda

You really don’t have to look very far, to find a timing discrepancy between BHPD and LAFD.  The LA Fire Captain Steve Ruda said the following—and it’s even on video: “On June 25, 2009, the Los Angeles Fire Department responded to the 100 block of Carolwood, at 12:21 and 18 seconds.”
{0:32, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4;
http://tinyurl.com/cdog56k}.

Why didn’t Ruda say “12:21 and four seconds”????  Or better yet, why didn’t he say: “12:20 and fifty seconds” (the approximate time LAFD received the call, according to Dona Norris)?  Surely, when Ruda said “responded”, he did not mean the time when FS71 got the alarm—because that was not until 12:22 (which we will see over and over again).  So according to Ruda, 12:21:18 is the time when the LAFD started responding to the call; that would be the time when the call came in to the LAFD.  But Ruda’s statement here is not the only thing that we have to go by; everything from the LAFD, as well as the 911 audio itself, all testify in favor of Ruda’s 12:21:18 timing.

The alarm that came into FS71 had four categories of information (see the call screen, and also exhibit #43): address, phone, 50 year old male, not breathing.  All four of these categories were communicated to the LAFD exactly 42 seconds into the call (1:17 minus 0:35, LAFD start time, equals 0:42).  At that point, the information would be transmitted to FS71 “almost instantaneously” {2:47, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Now if you start at 12:21:18, and then add these 42 seconds, you come to exactly—12:22, the time of the alarm at FS71!  Since “almost” is not quite instantaneously, perhaps it was actually 12:22:03 or 12:22:05 by the time the alarm actually hit FS71; this poses no problem, because the alarm time is always given as 12:22, but never the seconds.

However, if the LAFD call started no later than 12:20:58 (the Norris timeline), then 42 seconds later the alarm would hit FS71 at 12:21:40—not 12:22!  Was the LAFD dispatch doing cartwheels for about half a minute, before getting around to kicking the alarm at FS71??  Sure glad it wasn’t a real emergency!!

Moving on: in harmony with common sense (no time wasted on cartwheels), as well as the above calculation of 42 seconds into the LAFD call—there are numerous reports on the internet, that Ruda said the call “took 42 seconds to process”
{http://statter911.com/search/sosua; http://statter911.com/2009/06/26/quick-takes-248/; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5653140/Michael-Jackson-the-final-days-and-how-TMZ.com-scooped-the-world.html; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5647150/Michael-Jackson-his-final-hours.html; https://elgg.leeds.ac.uk/_rss/individual.php?feed=321&feed_offset=4070}.

This 42 seconds would not be the duration of the phone call, because that was two minutes.  And the 42 seconds would not be the time from alarm to asphalt, because that time is given by Ruda below as “within 60 seconds” (not “42 seconds”, or “about 40 seconds”, or “within 50 seconds”, etc).

“On June 25, 2009, at 12:21 [he doesn’t give the seconds here, so it could be 12:21:18] p.m., 911 operators transferred a request for emergency care to a Los Angeles firefighter dispatcher. … When a call for emergency care sounded in quarters [the alarm], Engine 71 … responded within 60 seconds [time from alarm to asphalt]. … The companies from Fire Station 71 responded in three minutes and 17 seconds [time from alarm to arrival]. … This response was on-scene at 1225 hours.”
{http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-162/issue-10/departments/what-we_learned/lessons-from-the-michael.html; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=3333.0; http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-things-f8/steve-ruda-article-on-fireengineeringcom-t3824.htm}.

Let’s pause here to verify that 3:17 is the time from alarm to arrival, and not the time from asphalt to arrival (not the time actually on the road).  According to Ruda, the trucks were rolling around 12:23:00+/- (“within 60 seconds” of the 12:22:03+/- alarm); and 3:17 after 12:23:00 would be 12:26:17+/-, yet Ruda said they were “on-scene at 1225 hours”.

Furthermore, 3:17 is unreasonably long to be enroute from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood—especially in emergency vehicles.  Essentially the entire route is on a 4-lane road (W Sunset); and the only signals are right turns, which would pose little to no delay—even if the lights were red (especially for emergency vehicles that can go through red lights).  Around noon on Thursday (6-25-09) would not be the time of day for rush-hour traffic.  Google Maps lists the drive from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood as 0.9 miles, and MapQuest lists it as 0.89 miles.
{http://tinyurl.com/7ojhrhh}

If 3:17 is the time from asphalt to arrival, the average speed would be 16.4 MPH  {http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html}.  This is unrealistically slow, especially for emergency vehicles.  But if 3:17 is the time from alarm to arrival, then the time enroute would be roughly 2:20—and the average speed would be 23.1 MPH.  At first, this may also appear to be too slow; however, keep in mind that the real speed may vary from stopped briefly (at a light or something) to about double the average (46 MPH).  This is a reasonable speed range for W Sunset; but doubling 16.4 MPH would only be about 33 MPH, and not realistic.  Unless there was a freak accident or something, and all four lanes were blocked (causing a delay and/or an alternate route), 3:17 from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood is way too slow for emergency vehicles.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Timing From Richard Senneff

Now it’s time to establish the 12:22 alarm.  In the top right corner of the call screen, you will see 12:22 (see photo below, under possibility #3); this is the alarm time.  It can’t be the call time, because that was before 12:22; and it’s not the asphalt time, because before they even hit the asphalt the information on the computer screen comes in automatically from the LAFD call center {5:50, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJWwvUpqhE}.

The call screen does not give the seconds for the alarm time.  Since this is computer readout digital time, it would not be rounded up from ~12:21:45 to 12:22; even 12:21:59 would be listed on the screen as 12:21.  So we know that the alarm came in at least 12:22:00 (and probably a few seconds later).  The alarm time also comes into FS71 printed on the teletype (exhibit #43); and it is also given in four digits as 12:22 without the seconds {3:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Gourjian: “Mr. Senneff, just to clarify, when you first got the call to respond to Carolwood—what time was that at?”  Senneff: “When I first got the call at the station was 12:22.” {13:09, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My4vQZvnaNo}.

Senneff: “The dispatch time, when we get the alarm at the station at 12:22. … that’s the time the alarm comes into the station.”  Brazil: “12:22?”  Senneff: “That’s correct.” {3:17, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Brazil: “So 12:22 the call comes into the station, and what’s the next thing that you do, in response to that information?”  Senneff: “We grab the teletype, get in the, uh, apparatus [ambulance], and head out the doors.” {8:45, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJWwvUpqhE; see also 8:10}.

Brazil: “What time did you arrive at the Carolwood residence?”  Senneff: “12:26.” {7:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Gourjian: “And what time did you arrive at the Carolwood residence?”  Senneff: “12:26 I believe.”  Gourjian: “Okay.  And what time did you arrive upstairs by Mr. Jackson?”  Senneff: “Less than a minute.”  Gourjian: “Okay.  So approximately 12:27?”  Senneff: “Yes.” {2:26, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQJV4at5heA}.

Finally, all three of these same times are listed on his F-902M form: “Time of Alarm, 1222”; “Time on Scene, 1226”; “Time at Patient, 1227”
{13:30 to 14:30, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9JMQ40VYN4;
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/2011/10/doc-paramedics-report/; http://lafdtraining.org/ists/books/bk05.pdf, page 14}.

In case you are wondering why Ruda said “on-scene at 1225 hours”, but Senneff listed 12:26 as the arrival time, there is a simple explanation.  The fire truck was driving ahead of the ambulance, and parked on the street (at 12:25; Ruda was not there, but got the info from their records).  Senneff was in the ambulance; it was not only behind the fire truck, but it had to deal with the extra time to go through the gate, and park inside.  So it is reasonable for the ambulance arrival to be roughly half a minute later.

Overview of LAFD timing:
12:21:18 LAFD “responded” to incoming 911 call (Ruda)
12:22:03+/- alarm, about 42 seconds later (per Ruda, also call timing 1:17 minus 0:35)
12:23:00+/- asphalt (Ruda, “within 60 seconds”)
12:25:20+/- E71 arrival, parked on street (Ruda, “on-scene at 1225”)
12:26:00+/- RA71 through gate, parked inside (Senneff 12:26, possibly rounded)
12:26:50+/- at patient (Senneff, “less than a minute”, and “approximately” 12:27)

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Timing From Alberto Alvarez





The above picture (exhibit #26) shows the 911 call at 12:20, not 12:21.  Shall we take this record as more reliable than the LAFD records?  And if so, then why are there four outgoing calls listed at 12:18—just one of which is 88 seconds?  Several hoax investigators have already noticed this discrepancy {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg362274.html#msg362274}.  If the next to last line should read 12:19 (instead of 12:18), then maybe the last line should read 12:21 (instead of 12:20).

Also notice that exhibit #26 here does not show the seconds; 12:20:18 is nowhere to be found, except on the unreliable BHPD printout (PPP).  This means that even if exhibit #26 above is accurate, Alvarez could’ve pushed the button so close to 12:21:00 that it actually registered as 12:20:59 with Verizon (and therefore 12:20 on exhibit #26); but it takes a few seconds to process and route the call, therefore it registered as 12:21:04 at the receiving end.

Yet another major problem, with the 12:20:18 theory, is the amount of time needed to accomplish all of the things which Alvarez said that he did—between the 88 second 12:18 call (ending ~12:19:45, since there were two other 12:18 calls before this one), and the 911 call supposedly only about 30 seconds later (see picture below).  Many have also noticed this discrepancy; and it was so obvious, that it was even mentioned during the trial and the closing arguments!  How many of the discrepancies that we have found ever made it to court?  Almost none!  Yet this one did; so it must be an extremely glaring inconsistency, and/or there is another reason why this is getting attention.





“According to Alvarez’s phone records he only had about 30 seconds to perform all the events (listed above by Chernoff) after he ended the call with Amir. The DA is trying to prove that Alvarez did all these things simultaneously, so that it would all fit into the 30 seconds time frame. Chernoff highly questions all this during recross examination.” {http://this-is-al-most-it.blogspot.com/2011/10/definitive-proof-ts-is-bs.html}.  Actually, during his closing argument, Chernoff went beyond highly questioning it; he said that it was just plain “impossible” {3:40; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iADy3WuWOMw; see also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21TB6_qZSU}.

Finally, the testimony from Alvarez himself, at the preliminary hearing, should set the record straight.  This was before any alleged BHPD records surfaced, and at the time Alvarez was unaware of any call made at 12:20; he said “12:21 or 12:22”, not 12:20 or 12:21—and this was right after reviewing “his phone records this morning” when he “saw the time there as well”!!!  So even IF there was any uncertainty in his mind, it would be whether the call was placed after 12:21 (12:22)—not whether it was placed before 12:21 (12:20).

“After he sets everything down he calls 911 at approximately 12:21 or 12:22. He does state he did hear his phone call reported on TV and the time was also reported on tv. He also states that he and the prosecution did review his phone records this morning (today) and saw the time there as well. He is asked if he spoke to more than one person on the 911 call and he only recalls the Operator.” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/2011/10/preliminary-hearing-day-2-%e2%80%93-alberto-alvarez/; http://teammichaeljackson.com/p-v-cm-jan-5th-albert-alvarez}.

Please notice that the preliminary hearing was not someone from the LAFD discussing what time the call was transferred to them; no, it was Alvarez discussing phone records and what time the call was originally made.  The following phrase has zero hits on Google (be sure to use quote marks): “Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:20”; and currently there are about 9,000 hits for this phrase, all referring back to the preliminary hearing: “Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:21
{http://tinyurl.com/7mdqou6}.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Possibilities

Now I’m going to propose 7 different possible scenarios—none of which would mean that 12:21 was not part of the planned numerology and timing, OR that the statements I have previously made about the 911 timing prove that TS is fake.  So if I can come up with 7 possibilities—and my opposers did not even come up with a single possibility, that fits with what I’ve said in the past—then the real problem is not a lack of accuracy in what I have said, the real problem is that they are desperately trying to find something to disprove TS.  Why?  Because it is human nature; many people are too proud to admit that they made a mistake, just like so-called “fans” who would rather have MJ dead than admit that they are wrong (and the hoax investigators are right).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#1. The 911 Calls Were Staged

No actual phone calls were placed to either the BHPD or LAFD; the calls were staged (much like the ambulance photo).  In this case, the information on the call screen was fabricated.  My description of the 911 call was describing not what literally happened, but rather what the information on the screen was designed to represent (made to look like someone was waiting for 12:21 to make the call).

Considering the above possibility: notice that there was one rather small two-letter word in Update 4c, which carries a rather big meaning.  “So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect …” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=7124.0}.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport

For this scenario, I’m going to go on the idea that TS is actually MJ.  But please do not take this and run with it; I am merely showing that if MJ himself could make the same statements about the 911 call, and still not be a fake—then just as much or more could someone other than MJ make these same statements, and yet not be a fake. 

What if MJ had already gone to the airport, before the 911 call was made; he was not there in person, to observe what actually happened.  Someone at the house not in on it was urging that someone call 911, and by 12:20 Alvarez felt that he could not delay any longer without raising too much suspicion; so he called 911 a little early.  In spite of the early call, the transfer to LAFD was not completed until 12:21; and this provided an opportunity for good old TMZ to still report the intended time, 12:21 {http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/}.  Other media copied TMZ’s report, and so 12:21 became the time of the 911 call reported almost everywhere.  Nevertheless, this scenario does not explain the discrepancies in timing given by BHPD and LAFD, etc.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#3. ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)

Alvarez called 911 immediately at 12:21:00; BHPD at answered at 12:21:04.  Within a reasonable time of 14 seconds (not a long delay of 46 seconds): BHPD determined the emergency needed LAFD (not police), and transferred to LAFD by 12:21:18 (as Ruda said).  In this case, both the original call and the transfer occurred during the minute of 12:21; therefore, this ensured that the media would report 12:21—regardless of whether they reported the original call, or the time LAFD got the call (and would be another good reason for starting the call exactly at 12:21, and not 15 or 30 seconds later).





In support of this scenario (see picture above), the call screen says “ORIGINAL W911 [wireless 911] INFO (12:21:04) …”; and then there are three lines of info about the ORIGINAL Alvarez call, but not info about the BHPD or the call transfer (that info was in the previous lines above).

This leads to the question of why the time “12:21:04” is even listed on the call screen.  For what purpose is this information provided to the FS71 paramedics?  If it’s merely the time when BHPD trunk line 009 was released (open for a new 911 call to come into BHPD on that trunk line, as Dona testified): why would FS71 paramedics care a whit about that time, why would it be on their call screen?  Would this information help them know what action to take in an emergency?

Wouldn’t it be far more important for the paramedics to know the time when the emergency call first came in at the BHPD?  What if BHPD had an emergency of their own (and that can happen), and it took them three minutes to transfer the call to LAFD?  Wouldn’t FS71 want to know how long since the emergency started, so that they could assess things like how long the house has been burning (in the case of a fire)?  This is the only time on the call screen with seconds included (12:21:04).  Why is the only time given in seconds also the only time on the screen which doesn’t even need to be there at all (if it’s really nothing other than BHPD trunk line release time)—much less have the exact seconds??  The paramedics really don’t even need to know when the LAFD call center first received the call (much less any BHPD trunk release time); yet even if they did need that info, for some reason, it would be about 12:20:55 (if Norris times are correct)—not 12:21:04!

However, if the timing from BHPD is either intentionally fabricated or some huge mistake—and 12:21:04 is the time when the original call first came in to BHPD—then we have a very good reason why it is listed on the FS71 call screen, and even listed in seconds.  The exact time (including seconds) listed on the call screen helps the firefighters and paramedics to understand just how long the emergency situation has been in progress, which in turn helps them determine how to respond to the emergency.  This would also explain why 12:21:04 is listed on the call screen as “ORIGINAL” call info (not BHPD transfer info)!

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#4. ”The Caller” Was Not Alvarez

Alvarez did not actually call “911”, since it was not a real emergency; instead, he used a different number to call someone at the BHPD who was in on it.  This key person at BHPD transferred Alvarez’s call to LAFD at 12:21:04; and I was actually referring to him (not Alvarez) when I said “the caller”.  Do you think it was an accident that I said “the caller”, and not “Alvarez”?  In this scenario, the “911 operator” would refer to an operator taking emergency calls at the LAFD dispatch center (not someone at BHPD).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#5. The Beverly Hills Hotel

This scenario is essentially the same as #4, except for the following.  Nobody from the BHPD was in on it at the time, and no calls went through them—either on regular lines, or on a cell phone.  This would therefore reduce the chances of any police showing up at the scene who were not in on the hoax; and it would also reduce the chances of the situation being broadcast on police radios—which paparazzi could hear on their police scanners, and show up at Carolwood, making it more difficult for Chris to get the magic picture.  So instead of calling BHPD, Alvarez called someone waiting at the Beverly Hills Hotel; this person then transferred the call on to LAFD at 12:21:04, much like the description above in #4.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly

Alvarez called the LAFD dispatch (at 12:21:04), using a direct number not 911.  In this scenario, there was no transfer process either through the BHPD or through someone at the Beverly Hills Hotel.  Like #5, this option also keeps the BHPD out of it, and reduces the people who need to be in on it.  The time from 12:21:04 (call screen data) to 12:21:18 (Ruda) could be a transfer from whoever first answered at LAFD, to a specific person planned in advance who was in on it at LAFD (and same for #4 & #5, above).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
#7. Think For Yourself

Just like everything else in this illusion, no explanation seems to answer all of the questions.  Nevertheless, think for yourself; and with the information that I have provided here, see if you can come up with a scenario that I have not specifically described—there is at least one more possibility (and probably several more).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Which One of the 7?

Finally, does it really matter which one of these above 7 options is the correct one?  And even if I told you which one, how could I prove it?  Just because I know the answer to something does not mean I say the answer; I normally limit my statements to things that I can back up pretty solidly (except of course the things that I’ve said jokingly).

Also, a magician does not give away all of his secrets.  Again, I am not saying that TS is MJ; I’m just saying that if the MaJician himself could have some secrets about how it was done, and yet not be fake, then just as much or more someone who is not MJ.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 11:50:17 AM by ~Souza~ »

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10009
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:27:16 PM
You did not earn a stroopwafel with that  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where's the rest?

Offline Sarahli

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 4265
  • Love is the answer.
    • Show only replies by Sarahli

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:29:11 PM
Hello TS!

7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
    #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

Is it this one?  lolol/
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Offline diggyon

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1376
    • Show only replies by diggyon

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:31:12 PM
His TS,

we were all waiting for your commets lately.

Okay I guess no 2 is correct because Jermaine's slip up about the air port was very obvious....

Blessings
Together we are strong

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln

Thank you Michael for letting me discover the truth!

I lost the bet, Sarahli won it! ! ! loool


Offline Elsa

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 341
    • Show only replies by Elsa

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:37:35 PM
TS, isn't 7 the answer to everything? 

Offline BeTheChange

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1569
    • Show only replies by BeTheChange

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:38:03 PM


Maybe he's having lunch? lol  Or his computer died?  bangbang

I'll patiently await the rest of the non-level, non-update post lol....but I'm riveted.

With L.O.V.E. always.
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline Adi

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1834
    • Show only replies by Adi

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:47:05 PM
Nice time (and date) that you posted this thread TS :)
 
#7 says it all.


Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10009
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:56:55 PM
TS is having some technical difficulties, will take a little longer. Nice tease though huh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Offline curls

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 3111
    • Show only replies by curls

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 05:01:58 PM
..... meanwhile Sarahli posts at a superb day/time for me in the UK: 9.11.11 at 9:29 (=11):11  !!!

Offline use_your_illusion

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 915
  • If you're reading this...you owe me a dollar
    • Show only replies by use_your_illusion

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:03:43 PM
All of the above...or none...lol
Do you give up yet?

Offline fordtocarr

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1547
    • Show only replies by fordtocarr

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:14:28 PM
I knew that TS was posting because the forum went down.  I told my husband...watch, that's whats happening.  And of course.

Offline anewfan

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1125
    • Show only replies by anewfan

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:23:16 PM
I knew that TS was posting because the forum went down.  I told my husband...watch, that's whats happening.  And of course.

 8) Things that make you go,  hmmmmmm.....
Your true character is how you act when no one is looking.

Offline paula-c

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 7597
    • Show only replies by paula-c
    • https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000669499472/986af9e4566ce7ab11ef8703e3b19b04_normal.jpeg

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:27:38 PM
I do not believe in  the numerology of Alberto

















The call between Amir and Alberto was the 12:18 PM.


Then in less than a minute to do all this 1. He entered the room. 2. It was in shock. 3. Reached the phone. 4. Accompanied the children. 5. Comforted the children. 6. Path to the door. 7. He closed the door. 8. Dr. Murray spoke of a "bad reaction" 9. It was ice cream. 10. Took a plastic bag. 11. Put the plastic bag within a bag brown. 12. Walked two steps until you reach the intravenous support. 13. Put the bag intravenous in another bag  :? suspicious//



And call 911? 8)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:30:19 PM by paula-c »

Offline _Anna_

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1739
    • Show only replies by _Anna_

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:36:25 PM

I am wondering if TS is from Netherlands, as he uses google.nl and how was able to post while the forum was down on maintenance and it appeared on the home page that only the admin could log in.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:45:25 PM by _Anna_ »

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10009
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
I am wondering if TS is from Netherlands, as he uses google.nl

Before we get that crap again, I will wipe that off the table for you.

TS had trouble getting his post up. I therefore put the forum in maintenance mode so that we could try and figure out how to get it up. When it finally worked, three of his links were very long so I made tinyurls of them, on MY laptop and I am in the Netherlands, which is why the tinyurl goes to Google NL. No mystery there.

Thanks TS for yet another long ass post. I wonder what the debunkers have to say about that. I am going to bed first and think about the options.

Offline fordtocarr

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1547
    • Show only replies by fordtocarr

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:12:16 PM
So, if I have problems getting a post up, you can see me trying and rescue me Souza?  LOL

LOL I said!!!  HONEST :)

If you are TS Souza, or MO, or Back, or Front OR MICHAEL, I don't care because the info we get from TS always pans out accurate.
What does drive me crazy, is I cannot figure out why TS speaks of himself as TS instead of I.

And...I'm beginning to take things back at where I began and just BELIEVE Michael is alive, simply because I Feel it.
That post was way beyond me..just like the trial.
LOVE to all of you, whoever you happen to be.

Offline all4loveandbelieve

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 4455
  • LIVE AND LET LIVE.
    • Show only replies by all4loveandbelieve

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:21:23 PM
Ts what can I say, amazing post, you are an amazing person. You explained it very well, and step by step.. Thank you for recap, this is appreciated it.. blessings.


I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am.
Michael Jackson

Offline Adi

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1834
    • Show only replies by Adi

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:25:52 PM
Thanks TS.

This has given me more to think about over the next few hours....my mind is spinning a bit

Offline Jennie

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 514
    • Show only replies by Jennie

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:29:43 PM
 According to Jermaine in his book, Michael's name in nimbers is 777. I wonder if and how we can work this in here.  8) /pull hair/

Offline mjj4ever777

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 1466
  • BE LOVE..LIVE LOVE! I LOVE you all, so very much!
    • Show only replies by mjj4ever777

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:32:40 PM
hahahahahahaha lolol/ TS...you can't "Fool" me anymore, cause I "Think for myself"! I will skip "re-hashing" things that have already happened, that can't be changed, and I will stick to Changing the things that i can...like myself! You know that I LOVE YOU!!!

We are ONE, We are LOVE!

Offline paula-c

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 7597
    • Show only replies by paula-c
    • https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000669499472/986af9e4566ce7ab11ef8703e3b19b04_normal.jpeg

Offline nick_93

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 269
    • Show only replies by nick_93

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:42:21 PM
Thanks TS! A very descriptive post. I'd like to see anyone challenge you now!  /bravo/
"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with.” - Michael Jackson

Online Andrea

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 3787
    • Show only replies by Andrea

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:48:47 PM
Thanks TS, I've read it once so far, I'll need to review it again when my head has stopped spinning, lol.  One thing I'll say right now is the timing of 3:17 -those numbers really stuck out to me because that is my lucky time/timing because I was born on St Patrick's Day (March 17).  I always notice those numbers, like all the time, and so I was like  afraid/          :shock:       :lol:

I'll read again later.  :ugeek:


Offline wishingstar

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 2927
    • Show only replies by wishingstar

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 09:03:31 PM
7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
     #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

Right.....I'll bite for using a bit of Michael's Math (from the Flip Wilson show I posted about in the Opening Day Musical thread....)

1+2+3+4+5+6+7=28
28/7=4
I say #4 "The Caller" Was Not Alvarez

Here is the video with Flip Wilson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e_gbzuuG0c


Blessings Always



Offline applehead250609

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 2615
    • Show only replies by applehead250609

Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 09:25:10 PM
According to Jermaine in his book, Michael's name in nimbers is 777. I wonder if and how we can work this in here.  8) /pull hair/

The only name that will give you 777=21 is this  8-):

MICHAEL =7
BRANDON=7
JACKSON= 7