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@ souza. agree 100%

I also overlooked mentioning in my post that even if he was helped to sleep in dangerous era, it certainly wasnt with propofol. more than likely a sedative / pill of some sort.


NB - Also just edited previous post. a spelling error made my sentance sound a different way than i intended. i typed "want" instead of "wasnt"
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

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But dependency doesn't have to mean he was addicted. I had my tonsils removed when I was 23, which I can tell you hurts like hell if you are an adult. For a week or two, I had a depency for pain killers, simply because I wanted the pain to go away. As soon as the pain got less, my pain killer use got less, until I could do without.


actually this example, punctuates my point exactly. thank souza. dependency isnt always a negative word. your pain free state "depended" (another word for "required") on you taking pain medication. it doesnt make you an abuser of pain meds. its doesnt make you an addict and it certainly doesnt make you weak. it simply means you were in a state of pain and to stay out of the pain or to make it tolerable you neeeded to depend or rely on pain medication.

same thing gina, with needing to sleep.

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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

*

RK

Frank is in on the hoax IMO. I have this book arriving by snail mail as I type. But I'm reminded of his cameo in David Gest's doco Life Of An Icon where he talks about MJ not arriving at  the gig for opening on the 30th aniversary concerts. Upon where he found Michael off his tree on demerol and had to get him to the show. I call B.S.
In the foreword of The Man In The Music...Anthony De Curtis writes his observations of Michael  as he was, during the rehearsals for the Maddison Square concerts. He goes on to say MJ was relaxed and completely in control. His tone was always friendly, respectful and professional. And Michael was very focussed. To me this doesn't sound like a drug addict.
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2good2btrue

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I'm 46 yo, and I still take something to help me to sleep.........I have a 5mg valium, and combine that with 5 x 25mg tablets of phenergan........

That's been my life.....I have trouble sleeping and I don't know why....

I am dependant on drugs to get me to sleep...........does it affect my performance during the day??

Absolutley not........

Do I look like a typical "drug addict"?  Absolutely not. !!

There are so many over the counter medications he could of taken without all this drama..
Especially PHENERGAN....My god, they give it to kids to help them sleep on planes....

So for this reason, I would say that all this talk about MJ being addicted to prescription drugs, is just a way to keep him in the news and keep the world undecided until the day the whole truth is revealed....I'm leaning towards the motive of hoaxing his death is to bring down the "Dr Feelgoods" and expose the hidden agenda of the "Illuminati MK ultra programming".

Otherwise, it would be really disrepectful that family and friends keep talking  about him this way. 

Remember. Elvis was supposedly "kept" drugged all day...He was having uppers during the day and downers at night to help him sleep..

Both KINGS were totally against drugs......... mj_bad/ mj_bad/ elvis_/ elvis_/ elvis_/

Victims were drugged with "Demerol" from way back in history...they controlled humans minds this way..
Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 10:56:49 PM by 2good2btrue
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anewfan

I notice that there are several times listed where he was "allegedly" taking pain meds, or sleep meds due to stress. I notice that 2005 is never mentioned. Wouldn't that be one of the prime times he would be under the most stress?

Tom Meseraeu even said "I was around him at the lowest point in his life and I never saw him in that state (slurring). He was always articulate." (those aren't his exact words, but you get the picture)
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Your true character is how you act when no one is looking.

I totally believe Michael was not taking anything during 2005 trial.
He was very much himself, fully aware and "sober".. and that's why
he was suffering so much  :cry: The sharp pain wasn't muted by any
medication.
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GINAFELICIA

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@gina, my comment is directed more at cascio not you hun. sorry i didnt specify.

however i dont think taking a few pills when under this pressure makes him weak. the stress he ws under was enormous.

easy for us to say, have a glass of milk or do some physical activity to go to sleep.

have you ever been under extreme mental stress. anxiety. i know i have. and i know that they were nights when i could not sleep no matter how much exercise i did. no matter how much milk i drank, etc. if there is extreme stress, the brain finds it hard to let go and shut down. the 'mouse wheel' is still turning so one cant get to sleep.

in regards to your comment abt physical activity. MJ does more physical activity than any other performer. we know that. esp is the dangerous period. so i dont think your suggestion would have been a solution for him.

the issues with the accusations were not simple issues. they were complex. therefore needing more than a simple solution. perhaps medicated sleeping was best for him at this stage.

also what would we know? we only get this info from the media... how do we know a doc wasnt professionally medicating him to sleep and then his prev manager wants to throw mud and say he had drug problems. everyone loves throwing mud at mj. and if they get paid for the interview then that 'mud slinging' is an 'investment'

we really dont know the extext of drug abuse or if there was any at all.

and if there was, it certainly does not make him weak. or anyone for that matter. we are all human.

MJ is human. amazing yes. but not superhuman. hard to believe i know....

my point is, we all have physical limits.

I've been under extreme stress. I have problems sleeping. I don't drink tea or milk for it. I can not shut down my thoughts. But I still don't take pills. I tried and I only slept for an extra hour, but my head was heavy when I woke up.
If his insomnia was so severe he could have consulted a specialist.  Why bother using drugs that are not for sleep?
It doesn't make sense to me. If I have a medical problem I go to the specialist doctor right? I don't go to a cardiologist if I have a headache. I don't go to the dentist if I have a gynecological problem.
It doesn't make sense what they say he did.
Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 01:28:16 AM by GINAFELICIA
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If his insomnia was so severe he could have consulted a specialist.  Why bother using drugs that are not for sleep?
It doesn't make sense to me. If I have a medical problem I go to the specialist doctor right? I don't go to a cardiologist if I have a headache. I don't go to the dentist if I have a gynecological problem.
It doesn't make sense what they say he did.

and if it doesnt make sense, then it probably isnt true.
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

*

MaryK

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Even if we assumed that he is really dead....the AR says he was in fairly good condition for someone at the age of 50.
Just think about it for a second....someone who is able to preserve his body in such a good condition up to the age of 50 must have been taking good care of his health throughout the years. Living healthy on one hand and on the other hand pumping ones body with drugs makes no sense at all.
So much for the "drug addict theory".....

And I am sure that he is/was deadly afraid of anything that could harm his body seriously or even endanger his life.
Come on....he´s not dumb.....
He´s a very smart guy and most of all a responsible father!
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You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



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MJonmind

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The 999 of the '1999' stands out to me.

That, and the mention of the Pepsi fire - 9282 days - from birth to fire and from fire to "death".

And if you add up all these numbers - 11/13/2011 7:22 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF - you get 21 which is 777!


You forgot the 777 (9282=21) on each side of the Pepsi fire day.  That's why I believe it to be a hoax, introducing the druggie aspect to the world to make it buyable. It may have been the first MaJician's act!


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I notice that there are several times listed where he was "allegedly" taking pain meds, or sleep meds due to stress. I notice that 2005 is never mentioned. Wouldn't that be one of the prime times he would be under the most stress?

Tom Meseraeu even said "I was around him at the lowest point in his life and I never saw him in that state (slurring). He was always articulate." (those aren't his exact words, but you get the picture)


Yes, he said it so clearly and beautifully, as well as the lawyer Susan Yu.  I will admit that MJ did look in rough shape at one point (which the media like to dwell on) but that's when he slipped and fell in his shower hurting his back. Interpretation is key.


Just before MJ came out in front of the curtain at the 02, he supposedly was reported to be drunk sleeping. They had to try to get him sobered up to speak, which he did a mesmerizing brilliant job of. So I call another hoax lie. ;)
Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 04:09:29 AM by MJonmind
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Frank is in on the hoax IMO. I have this book arriving by snail mail as I type. But I'm reminded of his cameo in David Gest's doco Life Of An Icon where he talks about MJ not arriving at  the gig for opening on the 30th aniversary concerts. Upon where he found Michael off his tree on demerol and had to get him to the show. I call B.S.
In the foreword of The Man In The Music...Anthony De Curtis writes his observations of Michael  as he was, during the rehearsals for the Maddison Square concerts. He goes on to say MJ was relaxed and completely in control. His tone was always friendly, respectful and professional. And Michael was very focussed. To me this doesn't sound like a drug addict.

I agree. I don't believe Michael would ever take Propofol to sleep. I also don't believe he's been drug addicted - ever.

When I heard about Frank's comments the first thing I thought about was the family on Oprah saying they never saw any drug problems at all. So, either he lied on the Oprah show or he's lying now.

I also read the observations by Anthony DeCurtis and cannot believe that in his observations Michael is very much in charge, precisely knowing what he wants, and is friendly and had a great time laughing in rehearsals. Very professional. Turning that around to Frank who says Michael was drugged up and late to his own show.

That leads me to a couple of questions and comments.
1) MJ's makeup artist, Karen, also said Michael was drugged up during the 2001 concert. She made statements that he was in his dressing room all drugged up and they had to get him revived enough to go on stage. I believe she said that when Michael goes on stage it wasn't noticeable because performing is so natural for him that he doesn't need to think about it.

2) MJ's children were with him. Where were they when he was so drugged up? Michael always took care of his children. They were on the side of the stage watching him so they were with him.

3) Michael's mother was at the concert and even stayed at the same place with Michael. I also can't believe he'd be drugged up with her around. He adores her.

4) The next morning was 9/11. He had presence of mind to immediately give orders to get his family and friends out of New York by way of bus. Stories from fans said he learned that they couldn't get home when flights were grounded and didn't have rooms. He paid for their rooms in another town and even paid for some meals. This is not the mind of someone who is drugged up. IMO.

Bottom line - Frank would need to be in on the hoax. Or he lied on Oprah. But why would he and his family lie only to turn around and make these statements.

Also about the 2005 timeframe - if there were ever a time he would need something to sleep it would be then. And there was no sign of it.

I remember watching an interview with Tim McGraw and he made a comment that after concerts it is hard to sleep so he stays up until morning and then sleep during the day. I also read the same thing with other musicians - that their family sleeps and oftentimes they are still up until early morning. That appears to be common with musicians. Michael would be no different.

Blessings on your day :)

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I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules.  Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

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anewfan

I, too, take a prescription sleep aide (Lunesta) every night. I am not able to sleep without it as my brain just won't shut off. I am also naturally a night owl, but yet require at least 8 hours of sleep. (otherwise I get sick super easily) I don't take it in the summer as I am not under stress (I teach) and I am able to sleep the hours that my night owl body likes (1 am-10 am)

Lunesta does not affect my every day functioning, but my every day functioning is affected when I don't take Lunesta as I'm up almost the entire night. I never quite get into a deep sleep and am wake up several times each hour. It's absolutely frustrating.
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Your true character is how you act when no one is looking.

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During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules.  Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.

But Propofol doesn't give you the sleep you need. How can they wake up refreshed? I'm confused.


EDIT: I can understand sleep disorders and problems with falling asleep. I'm thankful I don't need anything to sleep but I know lots of people who do. I'm not saying Michael didn't have problems sleeping. The problem I have is with believing he took Propofol nightly to sleep. He would not have been able to function. And, if he took it nightly and Murray was only in his life for for a short while, who gave it to him during the months before Murray came on board?
Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 07:29:30 PM by voiceforthesilent
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I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

*

anewfan

Good question, Voice....who DID give him propofol before Murray if he did in fact take it? (I also don't believe he took propofol for sleep...especially if it only lasts for 10 minutes.) I sure hope we find some answers to these questions when it's all said and done.
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Your true character is how you act when no one is looking.

 

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