Michael Jackson Former Manager Says Propofol Use Began in 1999

[jujubii]

If his insomnia was so severe he could have consulted a specialist.  Why bother using drugs that are not for sleep?
It doesn't make sense to me. If I have a medical problem I go to the specialist doctor right? I don't go to a cardiologist if I have a headache. I don't go to the dentist if I have a gynecological problem.
It doesn't make sense what they say he did.

And if you want to be healthy without drugs, you DON'T hire a holistic doctor.

That there is where the seeds of realizing a hoax is going on are planted.


You see where I'm going with this?

If Conrad Murray is indeed a real medical professional and not just an actor,
remember that he was a holistic doctor. If I recall correctly, holistic medicine usually does NOT deal with drugs, especially life-threatening ones, in its treatment of ailments (especially the likes of insomnia).
It is a practice that deals with natural, safer alternatives to conventional (and non-conventional) drugs.

Very reasonable of Michael, then, after dealing with problems with painkillers, Demerol or whatever he needed in the past, to have someone around who will logically prevent him from falling back into old habits, right?

He seemed very concerned for his health in 2009: the visits to medical clinics, the 4-5 hour physical that he passed with flying colors, having Dr. Murray around, training with Lou Ferrigno, exercising (rehearsing for TII)...
For him to suddenly allow himself to become addicted to a drug (again?), especially a very dangerous one, doesn't fit this train of thought of 'healthyhealthyhealthy' that MJ apparently had during this time.
This is something like Jack LaLanne drinking a whole tub of frying oil from McDonald's. Not gonna happen.
 


So this is what people tell us happened:
Once upon a time, the very health conscious Michael Jackson who allegedly drinks beet juice and other vegetable juices every morning hires a doctor who practices holistic medicine, when all of a sudden-

*record scratch*

He dies from a lethal dose of DRUGS??



This should be your answer to anyone who claims MJ was a druggie.
Whether or not he needed some help from Demerol, or harmless over-the-counter sleep aids (which he may have taken as a majority for all we know to help him sleep -- but the media finds that too boring so they'll tell you it was some hardcore stuff MJ was doped up on) is no matter here, but HOW these MJ and drug stories are reported.

I believe the more often you hear MJ was on or addicted to drugs, the less true it is when you consider his behaviors and all the circumstances following him.
It's just rehashing of the old stories of him being ill, drugged out, etc.


And to those who made a point of how MJ was clearly drug-free and sharp during the 2005 trial when he would NEED 'relaxing' drugs the most -- bravo because that is absolutely TRUE.
Touring? Yeah, might lose some sleep, big deal.
Potential of going to jail for horrible crap you didn't do?
"Dear GOD let me sleep and dream this away," he must've been thinking...

But he visibly did not use the drugs then when we'd assume he needed them.
So ask: why would he need them before that for the purpose of getting sleep,
OR especially AFTER that, in 2009, when he won that case and put those allegations to sleep like he wanted to do in 1993, and had peace and was preparing to show the world who Michael Jackson REALLY is?....


Simple. It really is not that hard to figure out...
And bring answers you're looking for...

[hesouttamylife]

During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules.  Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.

But Propofol doesn't give you the sleep you need. How can they wake up refreshed? I'm confused.

I can’t answer that, but it happened.  They apparently got what they needed from it and went on about doing what they needed to do without problems. 


EDIT: I can understand sleep disorders and problems with falling asleep. I'm thankful I don't need anything to sleep but I know lots of people who do. I'm not saying Michael didn't have problems sleeping. The problem I have is with believing he took Propofol nightly to sleep. He would not have been able to function. And, if he took it nightly and Murray was only in his life for for a short while, who gave it to him during the months before Murray came on board?

[suspicious mind]

it makes me wonder how some of the family seems to be playing along with the thought that he did this because he needed to sleep and it is all on murray only because he left the room. so causual about. is it because they want to be able to sue later or what?

[_Anna_]

I simply have a hard time to believe this can be possible and work as a normal sleep. How can someone take a shot of propofol which is an anesthetic an wake up able to function as after a normal sleep. After any anesthesia ( I didn't have any but I saw people after surgeries) people are completely dizzy for almost a day after or at least half a day. So this thing works? Is this being practiced by doctors on themselves? I don't know what to say but this really scared me. I can't even think about the fact that with Michael could very well then be a mistake + doctor negligence and it really happened. It can't be possible... 

[Galaxy]

Crocked Doc Won't Say If He Gave Drugs To Jax
BY GREG B. SMITH DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, February 09, 2000
An upper East Side doctor who shot himself up with morphine while treating patients said yesterday that he was pop star Michael Jackson's tour doctor in 1997.

Dr. Neil Ratner, testifying yesterday in the insurance fraud trial of high-profile infertility expert Dr. Niels Lauersen, was evasive when asked if he had administered drugs to the Gloved One.

"Would you give Michael Jackson drugs?" Lauersen's demanded attorney, Theodore Wells.

"I'm not going to discuss a patient's personal medical condition," Ratner replied.

In a telephone interview from Los Angeles, Jackson's attorney, Brian Wolf, said the singer "denies that Dr. Ratner ever prescribed any inappropriate medications or treatments."


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Wolf insisted that any medical treatment is confidential and said Ratner was correct not to disclose it.

Ratner, a 49-year-old ex-rock 'n' roll drummer and manager of Peter Frampton and Edgar Winter, has been on the stand for days, admitting he repeatedly took drugs while caring for patients during the 1980s.

In May 1989, he collapsed after shooting himself up with a paralytic agent during cosmetic surgery on the upper East Side.

Ratner, who still practices in Manhattan, pleaded guilty to insurance fraud and is cooperating with Manhattan U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White in the case against Lauersen in hopes of reducing his prison sentence.

Lauersen is accused of lying to insurers to make them pay for $2.2 million in infertility treatments the companies traditionally don't cover. Ratner was Lauersen's chief anesthesiologist for the past decade.

Ratner, who graduated from a medical school in Mexico and cut his ponytail two weeks before trial, said he traveled with Jackson as paid tour doctor during the African leg of the singer's 1997 world tour.

When Wells pressed Ratner about giving drugs to Jackson, prosecutor Christine Chung asked to discuss the matter outside the presence of the jury.

At Manhattan Federal Judge William Pauley's bench, Wells insisted that Ratner had, in fact, given Jackson unnamed drugs.

"I want to explore the implication, and I think what he is doing is illegal," Wells added.

But prosecutor Chung argued that the mention of Jackson was distracting jurors from the case at hand. Pauley warned Wells to avoid further references to the Gloved One.

During cross-examination, Ratner then repeatedly dodged Wells' questions about whether he administered drugs to anyone on the tour.

"In the course of performing your job as tour doctor, did you have occasion to administer narcotics to persons on the tour?" Wells asked.

Ratner: "No."

Wells: "Drugs?"

Ratner: "What is your definition of drugs?"

Wells fired back, "You're the anesthesiologist, you define it."

Pauley instructed the jury to ignore Wells' comment.


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[LUNA]

We need pharmacists to speak outside their small twitter accounts.
People, managers and media especially, still have no clue about what
is Demerol and what is Propofol and what are they taken for.
I get impression for most out there Demerol=Propofol. Which is wrong on
so many levels. Education anyone? Special courses for media people.

Okay. I thought the initial story was Michael couldn't sleep during HIStory tour
[he hated touring, he had reasons]
and maybe that's when he first needed anaesthesiologist to travel with him.
Propofol or it's analogue was used - no idea.
Demerol has it's own story, painkillers started in 80s and were battled in around 1993.
Demerol was making come back in early 00s, and our pretty Dr.Klein was using it
on Michael in 09 as we all know now, irregular doses but really a questionable
choice for a patient with a history of painkillers addiction, be it 80s or 00s.
Propofol is not physically addictive. Michael could be psychologically dependant
at this point, with the thought of "nothing else will help me sleep!", but we do not
know if the whole Propofol story is true at all or was made up for hoax purpose.
Ok, I bored even myself at this point  :oops:

i am a pharmacist and i can say that demerol (meperidine,a painkiller,a synthetic opioid) is not the same of propofol (anaesthetic).... i can't believe that a doctor could use an anaesthetic for insomnia,i've never believed it!! sleep is a state,anaesthesia is another 1 and,if u need 2 sleep,u can't be administred anaesthetic drug!!
however,if u need some informations about these drugs,i'm glad 2 write them 4 u.

LUNA

[hesouttamylife]

If diprovan and propofol are the same drug, it happened! :roll:  Don’t care what anyone says, I witnessed it being done.  /pull hair/  This is why I don’t like to reveal things on these forums.  I didn’t say I heard someone say it, what I said is I WITNESSED IT.  And that’s that. 

[Galaxy]

During my few years of working in a hospital, I know for a fact that some interns and residen doctors did give themselves propofol and a few other drugs to get a quick nap and wake up refreshed when they were on 48 to 72 hour call schedules.  Sorry to burst any bubbles, but it did happen and probably still does.

True. I have several medical professionals in my family and they have heard of the same
thing.

[applehead250609]

We need pharmacists to speak outside their small twitter accounts.
People, managers and media especially, still have no clue about what
is Demerol and what is Propofol and what are they taken for.
I get impression for most out there Demerol=Propofol. Which is wrong on
so many levels. Education anyone? Special courses for media people.

Okay. I thought the initial story was Michael couldn't sleep during HIStory tour
[he hated touring, he had reasons]
and maybe that's when he first needed anaesthesiologist to travel with him.
Propofol or it's analogue was used - no idea.
Demerol has it's own story, painkillers started in 80s and were battled in around 1993.
Demerol was making come back in early 00s, and our pretty Dr.Klein was using it
on Michael in 09 as we all know now, irregular doses but really a questionable
choice for a patient with a history of painkillers addiction, be it 80s or 00s.
Propofol is not physically addictive. Michael could be psychologically dependant
at this point, with the thought of "nothing else will help me sleep!", but we do not
know if the whole Propofol story is true at all or was made up for hoax purpose.
Ok, I bored even myself at this point  :oops:

i am a pharmacist and i can say that demerol (meperidine,a painkiller,a synthetic opioid) is not the same of propofol (anaesthetic).... i can't believe that a doctor could use an anaesthetic for insomnia,i've never believed it!! sleep is a state,anaesthesia is another 1 and,if u need 2 sleep,u can't be administred anaesthetic drug!!
however,if u need some informations about these drugs,i'm glad 2 write them 4 u.

LUNA

Luna thank you very much for the info  !!!! I didn't read the book,and probably never will,but I like to share with you some pictures from Cascio book.Now I think I know who was THE WOMAN,that Frank Dileo spoke in Life Of an Icon movie,lol  :oops:.For sure she knows alot about LOVE,after all she was/is a Sex simbol !!! ENJOY  !!!!

[everlastinglove_MJ]

This video seems to indicate the Michael may have be doing Propofol as early as 1997. If you listen carefully around the 2:36 mark, it suggests that a doctor was with Michael when he woke up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ru1wO1nSk[/youtube]

Thanks Galaxy, it's been a while that I've watched this vid. I loved the part when Michael tells that he dances to keep Prince from crying. Prince started to laugh and smile when his dad dances, which is sweet.   

Yes, I noticed it too about the doctor waking him up but does it really indicate Michael was having Propofol? I don't know. I don't believe Michael was addicted. Having painkillers from time to time, possible. The case of 'Hollywood' doctors who try to lure celebrities into addiction, to make them hooked on them, is a serious crime. This is also one of the 'truths' which probably will be exposed by the hoax.

"Michael "died in his endless quest to attain some inner peace."" has a doube meaning 

Inner peace (or peace of mind) refers to a state of being mentally and spiritually at peace, with enough knowledge and understanding to keep oneself strong in the face of discord or stress. Being "at peace" is considered by many to be healthy (homeostasis) and the opposite of being stressed or anxious. Peace of mind is generally associated with bliss, happiness and contentment.
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I see it like this: Michael put an end to (let die/kill) this endless quest to attain some inner peace by hoaxing his death to find this inner peace (happiness and NO stress and anxiety).
The vid Galaxy posted fits here, because Michael talks about the endless fled from the papparazi, the hiding, the stress and feeling emprisoned in his entire life

[Aidan_81]

If diprovan and propofol are the same drug, it happened! :roll:  Don’t care what anyone says, I witnessed it being done.  This is why I don’t like to reveal things on these forums.  I didn’t say I heard someone say it, what I said is I WITNESSED IT.  And that’s that.

Yes Diprivan is a name for Propofol, Demerol is painkiller and I'm tired of people
confusing Propofol [Diprivan] and Demerol !  :lol: It's like confusing apples/oranges.
Or even oranges/pumpkins  :
And yes, please don't be upset, I read about medical workers using Diprivan "for a fast
knock out", or something like that. It's true. But it hardly ever was used to treat
insomnia in patients. If MJ was receiving Propofol IV, it must be some doctor who suggested
such "treatment", I guess same doctor travelled with him during HIStory tour. But I'm
just assuming  :mrgreen:

If Michael hoaxed his end, I perfectly understand, and that's why we should relax about
"bam" dates - there might be no comeback once he "tasted" semi-normal life as a new
person. We have no right to demand his return or be angry at him. He and no one else on
earth owns his life. He can do whatever he wants with it.

[everlastinglove_MJ]

Frank Cascio, a former personal assistant to Jackson who eventually became his close friend and manager, writes that he first noticed Jackson taking Demerol in 1993 during his "Dangerous" tour

  confused/

According to this article You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, Frank must be 30 by now and in 1993 he was 12 years old  confused/. Did Frank notice that Michael took Demorol when he was 12?? He couldn't have been a personal assistant at that age back then, could he? Frank became a personal assistant, in 1999 when he was 18 according to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. Maybe I'm wrong..