Forum, Members And Troublemakers

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Offline Grace

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Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 07:03:32 AM
I'm opening this in a new thread to not exploit the thread about Back and Front.

There will be more attacks to unhinge us and the board as such. The more the other sides realize they were on the wrong path, the more they will come try to get us out of the way. Psychological moments of scratched vanity. Not to be underestimated when it comes to those big players we keep pricking like a dry bred crumb.
Tiny but effective.


I think it is time to show as a group where we stand.
This attacking and slandering cannot be avoided and will be repeated. Those after ban executions of poisoning the world will see their fate arrive without any actions from our side.
But we can avoid to fall into their similar traps again and again while they are here.


We need to stay united, in between us the older forum-members, because most probably we will see more tabloid-TROLLS like this trying to attack the forum (admins) and disintegrate our group.
Now more than ever we need to support Souza in her actions and decisions, unless we want to see the forum closed! I think Souza's patience and energy are close to an end, and NOBODY could blame her... watching all the bizarre users/comments lately!!

New forum-members are welcome, but they need to watch out how they behave if they don't want to be mistaken/confused with forum-haters/trolls!

I just hope, we can get back to our purely investigative and funny talks again.
I for one, I am sick and and tired of ALL the whining, drama-stories, wives-wannabes, sexy-dreams about Mike, hysterical trolls attacking and accusing us of all the world atrocities! I think that we are stronger and ABOVE that, we, as a group of this forum! Let's get over with this CIRCUS once and for all and look at the amazing things that are unfolding in FRONT of our eyes!! There are still so many interesting, unheard of things to discover, YET we are stopped/blocked by superficial, naive , useless and time-consuming "conflicts".

@Sim and everyone else, I've been quiet recently and have not been spending much time here because I've really had it with all the fighting and drama (and obsessed 'fans' as well). I've almost got to the point where my 'deadline' that I talked about a few days ago actually will not come into play because I'll have left the forum long before that time comes.

Then I read Sim's post above and think 'do I really want to be forced out by the workings of troublemakers?' Isn't that giving them just what they want?

Which leads me to wondering if there's not a different/better way of tackling these 'interruptions' than getting into pages and pages of public arguing.

Souza, I've spoken to you before about my experiences on another forum (non MJ related) where the admin/mods actually read and moderate EVERY SINGLE POST before allowing them to be seen! Obviously this is extremely time-consuming and actually in reality, spoils the free-flowing nature of conversation (so I stopped posting there!), but it did keep the site safe and on-topic. I'm not suggesting you do this!

But I wonder if you'd consider a different course of action when you come across a post you're not happy about. How about if instead of questioning the poster publicly on the thread and thus opening the floodgates to god-knows-what, you were to (temporarily) delete it from the thread, question the poster in PM, and then depending on their response, either re-instate their post or leave it permanently deleted. I don't think this would be more time-consuming than your current way of dealing with things - in fact it could be a far quicker way of sussing out a member's true intentions. By doing it in private, a troublemaker would not be getting the public attention they crave, while a genuine poster with a genuine point would be happy to clear up any misunderstanding before going public.

So, firstly, would this be possible techie-wise, you know, with your awesome admin superpowers?!  And secondly, would this, or some other approach, be something you would be willing to consider in order to keep your house clean?

@Curls, you are bringing up an interesting example.
 
Still the question is what we want to share in here.
Freedom and flow of conversation - this will invite troublesome souls as we saw it happen many times. This is our current approach as I understand it and enables everybody to join and post without being "managed".
 
Or is it a fully moderated forum that we want - this will diminish the aggressions from the beginning but also lead to rumors of "censorship behind closed doors" (and requires additional mods or a tremendous workload for the existing ones.)
 
Isn't there a third way to allow the forum to remain as it is and simply change our reactions?
Can we not just step back and ignore posts that are expressing a mindset we don't agree with?
Wouldn't it be more than fair to support Souza in her tremendous workload if we would agree and align in refraining from any emotional argy-bargy OURSELVES?

We 1) know what it leads to and 2) have better to do than spend our precious time and resources on feather-picking. Trolls and troublemakers can only be ignored. There's no other way to get rid of them. They feed on attention. They get away when they don't succeed.

We don't need to change the forum IMHO.
We just need to stop to dance according to troublemakers' rhythm.
E.g. for getting the "ignore as of now" known, we may use PM.
We don't have to leave the house cleaning solely on Souza's shoulders either.

What do you folks think we should do about it?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 07:09:35 AM by Grace »
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Offline MaryK

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 07:25:46 AM
Grace I totally get what you are saying.

But: "don´t feed the troll" has hardly ever worked on any forum I know.
You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

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Offline Do

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 07:44:29 AM
Isn't there a third way to allow the forum to remain as it is and simply change our reactions?
Can we not just step back and ignore posts that are expressing a mindset we don't agree with?
Wouldn't it be more than fair to support Souza in her tremendous workload if we would agree and align in refraining from any emotional argy-bargy OURSELVES?

We 1) know what it leads to and 2) have better to do than spend our precious time and resources on feather-picking. Trolls and troublemakers can only be ignored. There's no other way to get rid of them. They feed on attention. They get away when they don't succeed.

@Grace, I wasn't on the forum for a few days, so I guess I've missed the latest fight. I think that what you described would be the best way: totally ignore such posts. No arguments, no fighting, no nothing. Don't give them what they want. It's way too much work for our admin/moderators to preview every post. And besides, WE have a responsibility TOO on this forum. I should think that we learned a lot about all of this these past three years. And it's not what Michael stands for: don't give them their way, simply IGNORE them (like Michael tried to ignore the crap in the tabloids). We have to stand above the provocation.

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
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Offline sandythyme

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 08:06:40 AM
Isn't there a third way to allow the forum to remain as it is and simply change our reactions?
Can we not just step back and ignore posts that are expressing a mindset we don't agree with?
Wouldn't it be more than fair to support Souza in her tremendous workload if we would agree and align in refraining from any emotional argy-bargy OURSELVES?

We 1) know what it leads to and 2) have better to do than spend our precious time and resources on feather-picking. Trolls and troublemakers can only be ignored. There's no other way to get rid of them. They feed on attention. They get away when they don't succeed.

@Grace, I wasn't on the forum for a few days, so I guess I've missed the latest fight. I think that what you described would be the best way: totally ignore such posts. No arguments, no fighting, no nothing. Don't give them what they want. It's way too much work for our admin/moderators to preview every post. And besides, WE have a responsibility TOO on this forum. I should think that we learned a lot about all of this these past three years. And it's not what Michael stands for: don't give them their way, simply IGNORE them (like Michael tried to ignore the crap in the tabloids). We have to stand above the provocation.

You all have excellent ideas.  I feel that stepping back and ignoring as Grace said is the best.  As you know we can change ourselves and not others unless they want to change.  So by changing our reaction to their actions, we won't be fueling their fire.  People will argue for just so long, if they don't get a reaction from you, they will go elsewhere.  The saying goes for every action there's a reaction.  So let's not react to "their" stupidity.  This will give the forum strength from these people and give Souza the support....and rest needed from these waste of time situations.   :bearhug:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 08:08:31 AM by sandythyme »

Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 08:58:41 AM
I try and live by two standards...

1.  When there's FIRE....you must be the WATER...  Adding more fire will fuel it and it will erupt into a firestorm...instead, WATER (calm) will put out the fire.

2.  Ignore ignorance....don't feed the negative...and it soon will soon realise that is has no power and will burn out, alone.  God bless.

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 10:04:48 AM
Grace, thank you for opening this thread. What a good idea!! :th_bravo: We need to clear these things out!
I agree with everything that was said here: we need to  stand UNITED more than ever and we MUST find a way to help the admins of our forum and protect ourselves and our forum-group from any attacks like we've witnessed so far! And at the same time, it would be perfect if we could avoid any further scandals, fighting or disturbing moments which derail us from our hoax-investigations!

I would like to give my opinion... suggestion.
First, I am sorry but I have to disagree with the IGNORE method that some of you seem to consider as an appropriate solution to this problem. I'll explain myself why I think so.

[...]Can we not just step back and ignore posts that are expressing a mindset we don't agree with?
Wouldn't it be more than fair to support Souza in her tremendous workload if we would agree and align in refraining from any emotional argy-bargy OURSELVES?

I think that the IGNORE method works only with civilized members that for a reason or another cannot stand each other (it happens!! not everyone likes everyone! even though we have a common purpose here!) , but for the sake of the peace around them, these users decide to ignore each other and avoid any tensions or fights because of their different views that they could NOT solve through private messages. It's like a "tacit" agreement between the 2.

But when you talk about FAKE fans & TROLLS who come here to stir up the crowds and who usually choose 1 or 2 forum-members as their TARGETS (the most recent example is AKTHONY who has been clearly attacked by "scream"), so in cases like these, you cannot expect people not to get angry or expect them not to try and defend themselves!! Once you can ignore being trashed, but you cannot ignore this for too long!! It's normal to get angry and try to defend yourself !
I even think it's recommended to take action against these kind of trolls, because if we ignore them and just let them do their circus, they will take it as their own right to mock, ridicule, attack us and their number will increase, on the principle "here it's possible to do/say whatever you want because nobody stops you!"

As far as I am concerned: I can be tolerant for a while, I can ignore for a while, but in the end I WILL fight back! That's what I did with Veronica for example!
And I get even angrier when one of my friends is being trashed or vilified for all the nonexistent and absurd reasons and nobody says anything! Like it happened with AKHTONY! So again: I react and fight back!


What I would suggest is this:

[...]
1. Freedom and flow of conversation - this will invite troublesome souls as we saw it happen many times. This is our current approach as I understand it and enables everybody to join and post without being "managed".
 
Or is it 2. a fully moderated forum that we want - this will diminish the aggressions from the beginning but also lead to rumors of "censorship behind closed doors" (and requires additional mods or a tremendous workload for the existing ones.)
 
Isn't there a 3rd way to allow the forum to remain as it is and simply change our reactions?
Yes I think a 3rd possible solution, would be that ONLY the NEW REGISTERED MEMBERS be moderated or supervised for the first days/weeks , until it is clear for the admins that they are here with good intentions.

As for users registered a long time ago, who never posted, or who posted only 2-3 messages in 2 years! but they suspiciously start posting in heated-threads, again, they should be kept under moderation, until they prove to be either real fans/believers or trolls or just doubles/clones of some other users that had been banned and want to revenge from behind their other account! Because I am sure there are users here who use proxies and have multiple accounts (clones).


I don't know if my idea is good or not , I don't know if it's possible to be put into practice, hopefully it would not take too much time for the admins,  but it's worth trying...
Maybe some of us will come up with better ideas.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 10:23:51 AM by SimPattyK »

Offline bec

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 11:23:28 AM
I think MJ himself provided an excellent example in the course of this hoax for dealing with trolls: let them show the world who the asshole really is.

I think the absolute world of you guys, you really have no idea. I couldn't be more proud to be surrounded by such a group of intelligent, analytical, sharp minded people such as yourselves and your suggestions are very valuable to me, as I know they are to Souza as well.

However, I really like how each and every one of you handle yourselves on the forum and I would hate to see any of you change your individual styles. As far as I'm concerned, personally, keep doing what each one of you naturally does here. I feel as though everyone has their own style of personal management and it results in an incredible mixing pot of synergy and cohesiveness on the forum. So please, keep on keeping on.

As far as the trolls n troublemakers, don't sweat it, and don't let them get to you. They will flush themselves out and they will expose themselves to the world (we are public, after all), and then they will deal their own final blow.

So, to sum it all up, it's all good in the hood. Keep calm and carry on.
Are you entertained?

Offline bec

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 11:29:39 AM
Oh Ps. one way you can help me out, if you see a suspected troll, just hit Report to Mod on their post so I can watch them  :animal0017:
Are you entertained?

Offline emulik

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
Grace, thank you for opening such important question! we can keep on ignoring trouble-makers and trolls, we do not need to waste our precious life energy..talking with that kind of people is no effective, all they want is attention and divide us as a group.
So guys, lets be united and strong, for in unity is power!! :icon_bounce:
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MJ will get us home safely! :)

Offline BeTheChange

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 12:10:43 PM
I think MJ himself provided an excellent example in the course of this hoax for dealing with trolls: let them show the world who the asshole really is.

I think the absolute world of you guys, you really have no idea. I couldn't be more proud to be surrounded by such a group of intelligent, analytical, sharp minded people such as yourselves and your suggestions are very valuable to me, as I know they are to Souza as well.

However, I really like how each and every one of you handle yourselves on the forum and I would hate to see any of you change your individual styles. As far as I'm concerned, personally, keep doing what each one of you naturally does here. I feel as though everyone has their own style of personal management and it results in an incredible mixing pot of synergy and cohesiveness on the forum. So please, keep on keeping on.

As far as the trolls n troublemakers, don't sweat it, and don't let them get to you. They will flush themselves out and they will expose themselves to the world (we are public, after all), and then they will deal their own final blow.

So, to sum it all up, it's all good in the hood. Keep calm and carry on.

Loved your post bec and I completely agree with everything you're saying...as well as the importance of using that 'report to mod' button.  I think we are doing just fine...and will be fine.  There are, of course, ways we can each improve in how we handle things (there is always room for improvement in all of us), but we are a lot further along than we've ever been.

We should continue to be 'on our toes' about any possible trolls or people with alterior motives but we should also not be so quick to judge everyone either as being a troll.  Time always illuminates intentions...sometimes within one post, sometimes over a longer course of interaction.  I, personally, don't need 'protecting' from what gets posted in any thread, by anyone....nor would I want the content/posts 'filtered' in any way.  We are all capable of thinking for ourselves and determining what to retain and what to discard....what to engage in and what to ignore/tolerate.

However, baseless attacks against Souza or ANY members here should not be ignored nor tolerated, especially from people who have just wandered into the party.  But even in standing up for each other and/or defending each other or ourselves...we should always be mindful that we do NOT exhibit the same qualities of the behavior that we are standing up against.

You can have someone's back without firing in all directions.

With L.O.V.E. always.
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~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline paula-c

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 12:15:06 PM
There are" toxic" people able to infect with their negativity, jealousy and envy, people who see us as winners and consider themselves as losers, which leads them to beat us mentally and verbally, and perhaps if they had the opportunity, to physical violence, come here to get involved in annoying games, cruel words and behaviors dirty

Offline LoveShyMichael

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 01:27:44 PM
We all give opinions & suggestions based off our knowledge. If another forum member doesn't agree & wants to debate, it's their choice, just as long it doesn't come off as a personal attack. Because we all know the mainstream media whores, just vomit out LIES, & because other people still believe their lies, they also find it very easy to want to argue something some of us know as a lie.

It's hard to "open" a "closed" mind, unless they are shown that there is another way to look at it.

I have a personal question I ask myself when I want to give a haste answer.......

Is my intent to help this person?  OR..
Is my intent to hurt this person?


Offline trublu

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 01:32:40 PM
I think people disagree on all forums and most forums are victims to 'trolls'.

I see it as inevitable and just part of posting on an online forum.

The thing that is great about this forum is that it is public and anyone/everyone can contribute. The good, the bad and the ugly...

Offline LoveShyMichael

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 01:38:52 PM
The age group of forums also varies in their responses. So to have a response from someone who is 13 vs 50 years old of course the response could be immature, but that doesn't mean they are troublemakers either. It just could mean that's the knowledge they have.

Most times that "troublemaker' can be ignored, & they will usually just give up.

Kill them with kindness!!!

Offline Dontwalkaway

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 01:55:16 PM
Oh Ps. one way you can help me out, if you see a suspected troll, just hit Report to Mod on their post so I can watch them  :animal0017:

Okay Bec.  Good Idea.  I have a suggestion even though I'm relatively new here.  We should use the PM more often, especially if it is a personal or off topic issue.
We should think about what should be posted publically and what shouldn't.  If you think about it, this is like a world wide book that anyone can open up and read.  They can easily try to find something to twist for their own agenda.  We saw this just happen.   It's hard when it's a controversial issue.  We can try to stick to the facts to support our opinions in a non aggressive respectful way.     It gets tricky with some of these subjects but maybe we can clean it up the best way we can. 

Love You All

Love
 
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There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

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Offline LoveShyMichael

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 02:29:25 PM
I don't feel anything should be censored. This is a public forum. If someone posts something here, it's because they INTEND it to be read. I've gained knowledge from some of the most rude posts.

The difference is also the way it's worded when someone is expressing their opinion.

To take the personal attack off......it helps to say......I FEEL.....da da da da....instead of YOU make me...da da da...

I learned that the hard way, when my boyfriend & I split up, instead of personally attacking him with YOU MAKE ME.....I had to reword my responses to I FEEL.... that puts the responsiblility back on ME!

Offline MJonmind

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 02:33:36 PM
Oh Ps. one way you can help me out, if you see a suspected troll, just hit Report to Mod on their post so I can watch them  :animal0017:
I think this is the key.

Otherwise like Trublu says
Quote
I think people disagree on all forums and most forums are victims to 'trolls'.

I see it as inevitable and just part of posting on an online forum.

The thing that is great about this forum is that it is public and anyone/everyone can contribute. The good, the bad and the ugly...

After a while you can clearly see how people here as members tick, what they are passionate about, how they respond to things, a little of their background, their skills they add to the investigation.  And just like my real family, different members can be frustrating or lovable all at the same time, that's just people. I've often told my middle son he would make a dreadful troll online if he was so inclined. :icon_lol: And I HATE when he starts pushing SO hard, and it's not fun anymore. But of course I totally love him.

Anyway I love you all very much, because the real beautiful you does show through all the time!
 :bearhug:


Offline ShyBleuEyes

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 03:29:40 PM
The fact is that  each and everyone of you are very friendly and helpfull, if someone is new to the forum or just need some more info on something they don't know there is always someone here to give that helping hand.

there is no place like this one! couple of weeks ago i was visiting  an other chatroom, (MJ related) and after several minutes there was another person who signed in.
So as i was used to say "hello" if someone enters the room, i also say hello now,,....and that person responded to me like, "please don't say hello to me!"that was the only respond i get there!

This is just an example,...but i believe there are a lot people who hear of this forum, and want to disturb this gentle climate, i believe jealousy is what drive they're heart the most. if i'm correct things like this increased after Front send the handwritten note (poem).

And i agree with you all above we have to stick together , to grown our bond.
Only if we stay the way we are, we going to winn these things that disturb us.

I know i don't post as much like most of you do, but i am here every single day to read you all.

@Souza and Bec, i have huge respect for what the both of you are doing to get the forum the way it is now.

And Souza i know it's easy to say, and i don't have to handle this for myself, but please remember.... this shall fly by.

Stick together girlz.... :bearhug:

« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 03:32:10 PM by ShyBleuEyes »
“In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.”
― Michael Jackson

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 05:18:36 PM
Oh Ps. one way you can help me out, if you see a suspected troll, just hit Report to Mod on their post so I can watch them  :animal0017:
OK Bec!

Offline everlastinglove_MJ

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 06:03:08 PM
Quote Grace:
Quote
Isn't there a third way to allow the forum to remain as it is and simply change our reactions?
Can we not just step back and ignore posts that are expressing a mindset we don't agree with?


Quote Bec:
Quote
Oh Ps. one way you can help me out, if you see a suspected troll, just hit Report to Mod on their post so I can watch them  :animal0017: 


Thank you Grace for opening this thread, especially now we should stay together and be strong as a group.
I agree that we do not need to change the forum with the third way in mind. And I agree with Bec’s suggestion to hit “the Report to Mod” if needed.

Quote Trublu:

Quote
The thing that is great about this forum is that it is public and anyone/everyone can contribute. The good, the bad and the ugly...
Exactly.
 
Quote: MJonmind
Quote
And just like my real family, different members can be frustrating or lovable all at the same time, that's just people.

That is very true.

@MJonmind, doesn't matter you love your son anyways.  :)


I’ve nothing to add, everything is already said, just keep it goin’ and this is a great thread to clear things up!

@ Bec & Souza, I really appreciate all the work that you are doing. Kudos to ya!

LOVE you all
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 06:06:19 PM by everlastinglove_MJ »
It's all for L.O.V.E.

Offline blankie

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 06:13:22 PM
I try and live by two standards...

1.  When there's FIRE....you must be the WATER...  Adding more fire will fuel it and it will erupt into a firestorm...instead, WATER (calm) will put out the fire.

2.  Ignore ignorance....don't feed the negative...and it soon will soon realise that is has no power and will burn out, alone.  God bless.


Wonderful words 2 good  :icon_cry:  :icon_razz:

Thanks grace for this thread !!!  :bearhug:
LOVE YOU MORE

Offline curls

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 07:11:46 PM
@Grace, thank you for moving my post over here - I agree, it had the potential for taking the back and Front one way off-topic!

I feel the point I was originally trying to make has been lost.

While I agree that of course, we all have a part to play in this area, the atmosphere on a forum is largely set by the admin and mods. Communities need leaders to set the tone and lay the ground rules.They need to be like 'bouncers on the door' if they want peaceful surroundings, nipping problems in the bud before they escalate. And I'm not just talking about trolls here, but general members with unclear or inappropriate comments.

This is why I was suggesting that Souza use her powers and tackle posters she is not happy with in PM, not on the open forum, as a way of reducing the incidents of nastiness around the place.

But maybe people want to witness all the unpleasantness, because they view privacy as censorship, or secretly enjoy the drama. IDK.

@Souza, where are you?! This is a meaningless discussion without your input!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 07:15:50 PM by curls »

Offline CC

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Re: Forum, Members And Troublemakers

  • on: May 28, 2012, 09:12:12 PM
Oh Ps. one way you can help me out, if you see a suspected troll, just hit Report to Mod on their post so I can watch them  :animal0017:
OK Bec!

OK!

i just ignore the posts but i´ll report them now in...
Some men see things as they are and say: WHY?
I dream things that never were and say: WHY NOT?