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Re: The Return
January 30, 2013, 09:36:33 PM
Well im more of a Karl Popper myself, although the best way to find the truth IS to disprove as you could find evidence for just about anything. On Souza's comment, his name has always been Michael Joeseph Jackson, my evidence for this is his sons birth certificate You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And it is common for coroners to use multiple sources to identify a deceased person, so a drivers license isn't really that strange at all

So unless you have evidence to the contrary, the death certificate IS legally viable
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suspicious mind

Re: The Return
January 30, 2013, 10:46:17 PM
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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

*

MJonmind

Re: The Return
January 30, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
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Why would Michael have to be identified by his driver’s license if his family and all his staff was at the hospital and he was picked up at his residence?  He wasn’t dead by fire or dead so long that the body had decomposed beyond recognition, etc.  So why would they have to identify him by a driver’s license?  That makes absolutely no sense to me.  If I am correct a family member or in the case of decomposition and other extremes, dental records are used.  At the very least it would seem more reasonable to check fingerprints.  The other oddity in Michael’s “alleged” case is that he wasn’t wearing street clothes nor did he have on a coat with pockets, so where did they find the license?  Was he clutching it in his hand?  The whole scenario reeks of hoax to me.

Quote
Ladies and Gentlemen, skinny and stout,
I'll tell you a tale I know nothing about;
The Admission is free, so pay at the door,
Now pull up a chair and sit on the floor.

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys got up to fight;
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other.

A blind man came to watch fair play,
A mute man came to shout "Horray!"
A deaf policeman heard the noise and
Came to stop those two dead boys.

He lived on the corner in the middle of the block,
In a two-story house on a vacant lot;
A man with no legs came walking by,
and kicked the lawman in his thigh.

He crashed through a wall without making a sound,
into a dry creek bed and suddenly drowned;
The long black hearse came to cart him away,
But he ran for his life and is still gone today.

I watched from the corner of the big round table,
The only eyewitness to facts of my fable;
But if you doubt my lies are true,
Just ask the blind man, he saw it too.
(Homedog)  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Larry, I don't think you're going to find the kind of evidence you're looking for--it defeats the purpose of hoaxing one's death.  It's supposed to be convincing, yet inviting suspicion by a trail of subtle clues or "whispers" as Front calls them.  This is not pure Science, this is pure mind-warp by a genius.  Have fun!
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~Souza~

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 01:23:37 AM
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Well im more of a Karl Popper myself, although the best way to find the truth IS to disprove as you could find evidence for just about anything. On Souza's comment, his name has always been Michael Joeseph Jackson, my evidence for this is his sons birth certificate You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And it is common for coroners to use multiple sources to identify a deceased person, so a drivers license isn't really that strange at all

So unless you have evidence to the contrary, the death certificate IS legally viable

Your scientific reasoning sucks. Your only evidence are birth certificates pulled by TMZ while all birth certificates of the Jacksons were already sealed? And they can't even get Debbie's middle name right on both. You choose to ignore legal documents and signatures of Michael himself to try and prove me wrong. Sorry, but my evidence is much more reliable than yours, you will have to do better than that.
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Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 02:47:05 AM
Souza, if im not mistaken that would mean no pictures of legal documents found online would be of any validity in that case. That said, to the people saying i wont find evidence... i disagree, ANYTHING leaves some kind of trail and a conspiracy such as this would require a lot of perfection to get right... odds are, people would have made mistakes.

Now im not saying we should have a forensic investigation (because not only has that been done, but it would also be unrealistic) but the evidence of a conspiracy SHOULD be there... and it is... the dissapearence of security footage is one of the most damning pieces of evidence to suggest pre meditation OR at least a cover up. That's the evidence im looking into at the moment, because that is something real and isnt some false interpretation of something that isnt really there.
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Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 05:37:18 AM
About the Joe-Joseph thing, I never participated in a previous discussion about this on this board (I'm only a member for a couple of months), but I had always thought his middle name was Joseph. A few months ago, I wasn't even aware that Joe was also used. Katherine wrote in her book (in the 80ies?) that she named him Michael Joseph. So actually I do think that his real legal name (at least at birth) is Joseph. He might have changed it later though.

Nevertheless, I think there's something strange going on with this name thing. Jermaine stated in his book that Michael's middle name has always been Joe, so he counterdicts his mother there. And if Michael Joe was on Michael's driver's license, why would the coroner's office change this to Joseph?

Larry, you want scientific evidence of the hoax? How about the extra star on the Californian seal at the trial? With no legal seal, no legal trial. And why would the trial not be legal if Michael was really dead? To me that is much much more than a 'whisper' or a 'clue'.
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Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 06:46:53 AM
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About the Joe-Joseph thing, I never participated in a previous discussion about this on this board (I'm only a member for a couple of months), but I had always thought his middle name was Joseph. A few months ago, I wasn't even aware that Joe was also used. Katherine wrote in her book (in the 80ies?) that she named him Michael Joseph. So actually I do think that his real legal name (at least at birth) is Joseph. He might have changed it later though.

Nevertheless, I think there's something strange going on with this name thing. Jermaine stated in his book that Michael's middle name has always been Joe, so he counterdicts his mother there. And if Michael Joe was on Michael's driver's license, why would the coroner's office change this to Joseph?

Larry, you want scientific evidence of the hoax? How about the extra star on the Californian seal at the trial? With no legal seal, no legal trial. And why would the trial not be legal if Michael was really dead? To me that is much much more than a 'whisper' or a 'clue'.

Show me, dont just state it, provide evidence.
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bugsy

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
About the Joe-Joseph thing, I never participated in a previous discussion about this on this board (I'm only a member for a couple of months), but I had always thought his middle name was Joseph. A few months ago, I wasn't even aware that Joe was also used. Katherine wrote in her book (in the 80ies?) that she named him Michael Joseph. So actually I do think that his real legal name (at least at birth) is Joseph. He might have changed it later though.

Nevertheless, I think there's something strange going on with this name thing. Jermaine stated in his book that Michael's middle name has always been Joe, so he counterdicts his mother there. And if Michael Joe was on Michael's driver's license, why would the coroner's office change this to Joseph?

Larry, you want scientific evidence of the hoax? How about the extra star on the Californian seal at the trial? With no legal seal, no legal trial. And why would the trial not be legal if Michael was really dead? To me that is much much more than a 'whisper' or a 'clue'.

Show me, dont just state it, provide evidence.

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If you go to the End the camera goes to the seal above the judge, If you pause it and count the stars you will find the extra star.

Also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Behind the scenes footage, the cameraman shows the same seal above on the wall behind where the judge would sit.
Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 07:50:01 AM by leilani81
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"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 07:46:44 AM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
About the Joe-Joseph thing, I never participated in a previous discussion about this on this board (I'm only a member for a couple of months), but I had always thought his middle name was Joseph. A few months ago, I wasn't even aware that Joe was also used. Katherine wrote in her book (in the 80ies?) that she named him Michael Joseph. So actually I do think that his real legal name (at least at birth) is Joseph. He might have changed it later though.

Nevertheless, I think there's something strange going on with this name thing. Jermaine stated in his book that Michael's middle name has always been Joe, so he counterdicts his mother there. And if Michael Joe was on Michael's driver's license, why would the coroner's office change this to Joseph?

Larry, you want scientific evidence of the hoax? How about the extra star on the Californian seal at the trial? With no legal seal, no legal trial. And why would the trial not be legal if Michael was really dead? To me that is much much more than a 'whisper' or a 'clue'.

Show me, dont just state it, provide evidence.




if you look at the vedios of the trial footage you can count for yourself, I watched the trial this is correct.

Blessings.
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paula-c

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 09:21:26 AM
This is not scientific evidence, it is a real thing; number 1 who took this video, if we set ourselves was taken from the top and inside the house number 2 i think that these bodyguards are very happyyyyyy with the death of his boss, " what man so evil "



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~Souza~

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 09:42:27 AM
Larry ain't gonna see it anyway. Trying is waisting your time. It's not a newbie, he was here 3 years ago and still thinks Michael is dead. Either he is whining just because he has too much time on his hands, or he is too lazy to start investigating and reading himself. In both cases, we should not spoon feed him any further.
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~Souza~

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 09:44:16 AM
Oh and BTW Larry, I know he is alive, I know he is not 5'9" like the AR states and I know his middle name is Joe, not Joseph. Sometimes you just know, you know?
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Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 10:48:35 AM
"And it is common for coroners to use multiple sources to identify a deceased person, so a drivers license isn't really that strange at all"

Not buying that at all.  I have had 2 instances in my own family where identification was needed to identify a deceased family member and they never asked for nor relied on a driver’s license to do it.  A reliable source, a close family member preferably, had to come into the morgue and visibly identify the deceased as hard as that was.  And they never asked for their picture identification, only mine.  :icon_rolleyes:
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

*

bec

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 10:50:25 AM
The extra star on the CA state seal is just a mistake made in production of the seal, believe it or not. That's how the real state seal appears in all CA court rooms. Refer to live feed from the Lohan trial for example. It is not a hoax clue, nor is it proof of the trial's alleged illegitimacy.

Larry has a point though. Until we stop ignoring the facts (example: above, long ago debunked info many refuse to acknowledge), we are merely fucking around here. This is not a singular example either. Frequently where I look on the forum, people are clinging to old, debunked info as if it were factual. Drags the whole thing down to irrelevancy. It's annoying.

The verdict did however refer to MJ as the "alleged" victim on the "alleged" date, as reviewed by the judge and read aloud by the court clerk, and to date I have not seen that reconciled. 

However, Larry, MJ was formally and solely referred to as "Michael JOE Jackson" in all court documents and proceedings during the 2005 chi-mo trial. These documents are public record and retrievable via simple google search, posted on secure govt sites--no funny business. Michael JOE Jackson is also the name contained in the FBI files released in 2009, also available online through the official FBI site. So I think that's as legit as it gets when it comes to proof of MJ's legal name, or as legit as we PC jockeys can uncover in lieu of the holy grail of the BC (sealed!). Michael JOSEPH Jackson may well be a stage name, as it is the name used for several copyright related court proceedings prior to 2009, and all legal documents submitted in accordance with the "death".

We've also proven the "death" pic (ambulance photo) is fake, ie created. And not photoshop either, which would be uninteresting, and certainly not damning, but rather layered, which IS interesting, and IS, as you'll see, quite damning. IOW, it was created from 3 layers. First layer is a pic of MJ being worked on by paramedics within an ambulance interior. Second layer is the pattern or "proof" layer. Third layer is the sun glare and parked car reflection. Interesting proof to be sure, it suggests funny business going on. Funny business just to sell a pic to the tabloids? Sure. But it's more complicated then that considering how it must have been created, using a real pic of MJ really in an ambulance interior that matches actual ambulance 71 working in LA that day... how did NPG stage this pic WITHOUT the direct participation of MJ? That's the damning question, and that the damning evidence of hoax.

If this is all greek to you Larry, feel free to do a topic search here on the forum. This stuff is all so familiar to us that when conducting convo on the forum, we can refer to things without links, as everyone is expected to be up to speed on the info.
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Are you entertained?

Re: The Return
January 31, 2013, 11:22:23 AM
:omg: Bec, I wasn't aware of the Californian seal always being wrong in court rooms. Unbelievable they don't make a right one... I didn't know this info had already been debunked, sorry for being annoying  :icon_mrgreen:. But indeed the 'alleged' in the verdict is abnormal anyway. I didn't mention it because to me the extra star in the seal seemed so important. I feel a bit  :icon_pale: knowing it didn't mean anything.

About the Joe thing, I know this is the only middle name used in court docs of 2005, FBI files, ... But how do you explain the Joseph in Katherine's book then? The stage name? She really says she named him Michael Joseph. If I have time, I will quote from her book later this evening (in my timezone it's evening).
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