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curls

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 14, 2013, 01:13:50 AM
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Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.

Wouldn't you have to apply the same logic to the Pepsi incident, if it was staged, as you believe it was? Taking 1.5 million for a pretend burn accident is surely fraud. Or do you think Pepsi were in on it, just as AEG are now?
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bec

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 14, 2013, 01:31:37 AM
Depends on the wording of the deal. If Pepsi agreed to donate money for a specific cause as part of MJ's contract then so be it. To me it's not the same. One's a court case, one's a private agreement.
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curls

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 14, 2013, 01:56:52 AM
Not sure I agree bec - fake a burn accident, take 1.5 million; fake a death, take 40 billion - seems pretty much the same to me, court or no court. Which, like I said before, begs the question: were Pepsi in on it? If they weren't, and MJ had that 1.5 mil pre-written in a contract, then Pepsi must've thought they'd got away with an 'accident' of their own making, because they were always going to pay/donate that money anyway. Not only did they get away with it, but they even saved face/gained respect in the eyes of the public by 'donating' this way.

Interesting questions! Not sure we're ever gonna find the answers!
Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 02:00:46 AM by curls
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MJonmind

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 14, 2013, 02:32:38 AM
This whole page is an interesting read. Something, was going down, that's for sure.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
According to Captain Don Donester, the fire safety inspector, who was on the set during filming of the commercial, overheard Giraldi informing Michael Jackson to "Stand there longer [under the sparks]. You'll look more majestic."

Weird connection TMZ posted link to:
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Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince of Bel Air, was in the Pepsi commercial shoot as a kid, with Giraldi directing.
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  And no claims MJ abused him. :icon_e_smile:
Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 03:57:20 AM by MJonmind
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suspicious mind

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 01:48:03 PM
do we know if pepsi paid out or their insurance ? like michael didn't personally pay out on jordie but his insurance.
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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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sweetsunsetwithMJ

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  • Michael I am looking forward to your BAM!!
Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 03:07:10 PM
Sorry I didn't know where to post it:

One year ago I was talking about Justin Bieber being in on the hoax, what do you guys think about this pic where it says: BIEBER AIR FLIGHT 777    :LolLolLolLol:


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I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE!!

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Jos

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 04:30:45 PM
"Well, what worked for MJ, will work for me too!"

I'm sorry, I don't like the kid, he seems like one bik (arrogant) copy-cat to me. :smiley-vault-misc-150:
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We can change the world, He can't do it by himself.

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bec

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 07:50:21 PM
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Not sure I agree bec - fake a burn accident, take 1.5 million; fake a death, take 40 billion - seems pretty much the same to me, court or no court. Which, like I said before, begs the question: were Pepsi in on it? If they weren't, and MJ had that 1.5 mil pre-written in a contract, then Pepsi must've thought they'd got away with an 'accident' of their own making, because they were always going to pay/donate that money anyway. Not only did they get away with it, but they even saved face/gained respect in the eyes of the public by 'donating' this way.

Interesting questions! Not sure we're ever gonna find the answers!

I'm glad someone bumped this topic back up as I didn't know where to find it n your question has been turning around in my mind for some time, curls.

In my mind it's different. I've been trying to verbalize my reasons since you posed it to me, with varying degrees of success, but I've had some time to mull it over since then so here goes.

The Pepsi deal was done behind closed doors so we have no way of knowing what the nature of it really was. Was it an insurance pay out? A settlement avoiding lawsuit? A kickback on the contract? Or simply money MJ was slated to receive anyway? No concrete answers emerge due to the private nature of the original arrangement. All we have at our disposal regarding this Pepsi payout to MJ being donated to children's hospital is hearsay.

On the other hand, we have court documents proving that this "case" is occurring as we speak. It's collaborated by members of the media sitting in court, lawyers making statements to journalists, and court watchers reporting on persons of interest arriving and going inside.

In other words, the one (Pepsi agreement) was never public, only the alleged outcome, the other (wrongful death trail) is very much public record ongoing.

Pepsi agreement could easily be "spun" in whatever direction MJ wanted, which ever explanation served his needs at the time. It didn't have to be the truth, it's entirely possible that MJ arranged for his PR department to be allowed to say whatever they wanted to say and Pepsi had no input. They were just happy NOT to be getting sued (in my imagination), and were happy to agree to put on for show, that they paid up to MJ so he could donate to kids hospital, makes everyone look good, and the alternative (in Pepsi executive's minds, I speculate) would be a PR nightmare.

You could spin it anyway you wanted. There's zero proof that Pepsi paid MJ because they were negligent, or felt negligent, or were accused of negligence.

Say MJ DID hoax the world and faked the Pepsi burn, hoaxing Pepsi in the process. Say Pepsi freaked out because they thought it was real. Say they would be suspicious if MJ did NOT have a grievance about it. Say MJ said "no really, it's alright, but to prove it's alright, and I'm not going to come back n sue you later, how about you donate some money to a children's hospital and we will call it good? Here, my PR department will spin it for the press and you guys will come out of it looking like heros... Pepsi agrees, everyone wins.

Who knows if it didn't go down like that? Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, all we have is our imagination to go on here. We have no proof either way. All we know for sure is that no lawsuit came out of the "accident".

But wrongful death is different. IF it's real court, then KJ REALLY IS suing AEG for a whole bunch of money KNOWING that her son is not dead, wrongful or otherwise. That's fraud. Period. We know that court is really going on right now and there's simply two explanations for that. ONE: KJ really is suing for wrongful death of a live MJ knowing he is not actually dead or TWO: court is being staged.

I don't think MJ could dig himself out of a hole that deep (former explanation) and come back (Bam!) after putting his mom up to bring false claims to litigation. And it makes no sense, in a 4 year hoax where some great lengths have been taken NOT to break the law, this sure would be a doozy of criminal activity to end with.

If track record counts for anything, I do not believe that MJ or KJ would commit fraud and I see no way around that IF the former explanation is true.

Now of course, MJ has the best lawyers in the world and what do I know of legal whathaveyou's--not much at the end of the day. All I have is my logic, common sense, and imagination to play with, so I do, and that's what I have been able to come up with. For what it's worth.
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Andrea

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 08:37:25 PM
Is there still a Michael Jackson Burn Center? I googled it and all I could find was that the original one was closed in 1987 (I didn't know that)...the article was written on Michael's 29th birthday (!) ...saying it had closed the day before because it had been losing money.

The article also notes that the $1.5 Million donated from Michael was to be used for research but received no operating money from it, that it was instead used for patient entertainment.  The article also states that Michael's representatives learned of the closure only hours before it happened.

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So if the Pepsi burn was a hoax, then someone(s) from this hospital would've needed to be 'in on it' because Michael's head would NOT have been actually burned and treated there - and in return, the hospital gets the money - which apparently they didn't handle well.  ?


@bec - what about FBI involvement in the court to make it, if not quite legal, then at least not illegal? Remember the FBI blanket can cover all sorts, lol.
Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 08:39:34 PM by Andrea
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bec

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 09:11:32 PM
@Andrea:

Right right FBI. Does anyone know how the FBI theory applies to current events?

Was it MJonmind that identified the ~ever-present~ doctor so-and-so on the other thread?
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Andrea

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 09:19:17 PM
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Was it MJonmind that identified the ~ever-present~ doctor so-and-so on the other thread?


Yes, this fits perfectly here.

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Wiki
Quote
1975–81: Move to Epic and Off the Wall
In June 1975, the Jackson 5 signed with Epic Records, a subsidiary of CBS Records[27] and renamed themselves the Jacksons. Younger brother Randy formally joined the band around this time, while Jermaine choose to stay with Motown and pursue a solo career.[28] They continued to tour internationally, releasing six more albums between 1976 and 1984, during which Michael was the lead songwriter, writing hits such as "Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)", "This Place Hotel", and "Can You Feel It".[24] In 1978, he starred as the Scarecrow in the musical, The Wiz, a box-office disaster. It was here that he teamed up with Quincy Jones, who was arranging the film's musical score. Jones agreed to produce Jackson's next solo album, Off the Wall.[29]
In 1979, Jackson broke his nose during a complex dance routine. His subsequent rhinoplasty was not a complete success; he complained of breathing difficulties that would affect his career. He was referred to Dr. Steven Hoefflin, who performed Jackson's second rhinoplasty and subsequent operations.[30]


Jones and Jackson produced the Off the Wall album together. Songwriters for the album included Jackson, Rod Temperton, Stevie Wonder, and Paul McCartney. Released in 1979, it was the first solo album to generate four U.S. top 10 hits, including the chart-topping singles "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" and "Rock with You".[31][32] It reached number three on the Billboard 200 and eventually sold over 20 million copies worldwide.[33] In 1980, Jackson won three awards at the American Music Awards for his solo efforts: Favorite Soul/R&B Album, Favorite Soul/R&B Male Artist, and Favorite Soul/R&B Single for "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough".[34][35] That year, he also won Billboard Year-End for Top Black Artist and Top Black Album and a Grammy Award for Best Male R&B Vocal Performance, also for "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough".[31] Jackson again won at the American Music Awards in 1981 for Favorite Soul/R&B Album and Favorite Soul/R&B Male Artist.[36] Despite its commercial success, Jackson felt Off the Wall should have made a much bigger impact, and was determined to exceed expectations with his next release.[37] In 1980, he secured the highest royalty rate in the music industry: 37 percent of wholesale album profit.[38]

That does it. The Pepsi ad burn was one of his first kick-off hoaxes 100%, with Hoefflin one of his accomplices.
Wiki:
Quote
Hoefflin has carried out cosmetic surgery on numerous celebrities and has been linked to Michael Jackson’s changing appearance since the early 1980s. Hoefflin grafted skin to Jackson’s scalp after the singer was burnt during the filming of a Pepsi commercial in 1984.[2] In 1979, Jackson had his first rhinoplasty after breaking his nose during a complex dance routine. However, the surgery was not a complete success, and Jackson complained of breathing difficulties that would affect his career. He was referred to Dr. Hoefflin, who performed Jackson's second rhinoplasty.

Quote
Klein:  Historically the records firmly show Michael Jackson was addicted to Propofol by Steve Hoefflin. In 2003 Michael made a cease and desist order against Hoefflin.
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It's no accident this little tidbit was revealed only now! :icon_lol:
 :michael_jackson-1135:
Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 09:20:11 PM by Andrea
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bec

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 21, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
That's a little too coincidental for me. Yes, fits right in. Thanks Andrea.
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MJonmind

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 22, 2013, 02:11:24 AM
And speaking of doctors in on the hoax, Klein has to be in too. Did you guys read the wow story posted by Gr33sian?
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I'll bet the reason Arnie didn't get paid for doing all that 'major' facial reconstruction was because he never did any! lol
 :michael-jackson:
If you compare MJ's pics from around the 2005 trial days and TII, he looks pretty much the same--awesome!
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curls

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 22, 2013, 02:12:02 AM
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Say MJ DID hoax the world and faked the Pepsi burn, hoaxing Pepsi in the process. Say Pepsi freaked out because they thought it was real. Say they would be suspicious if MJ did NOT have a grievance about it. Say MJ said "no really, it's alright, but to prove it's alright, and I'm not going to come back n sue you later, how about you donate some money to a children's hospital and we will call it good? Here, my PR department will spin it for the press and you guys will come out of it looking like heros... Pepsi agrees, everyone wins.

Thanks for coming back to this bec. I was with you till the paragraph above! To me still, it's fraud!  In that scenario you outline, everyone most certainly doesn't win. Pepsi were 'relieved' of 1.5million on a lie or put another way MJ gained 1.5million by deception. A court case, or lack of one, doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed, just that you were never found out or it never got to court.

But......  like you, I don't believe MJ goes around committing crimes. So the only explanation my imagination can come up with IF the Pepsi accident was a hoax, is that Pepsi were in on it too and either agreed, behind the scenes, in a scenario similar to the one you put forward, to donate the money, or it was MJ's money all along.

Like this maybe: MJ in secret to top Pepsi exec: " I want to donate some money to a Burns Unit but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I get burnt doing this commercial and then instead of suing you I get you to (pretend to) donate (my) money? Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone wins!"

Similarly, how about:  MJ in secret to top AEG exec: " I want to build a Children's Hospital but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I die preparing for these concerts and then I get my mother to sue you and you (pretend to) pay her billions but it's really my money? After a while we'll come clean! Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone (children especially) wins!"
 
That's my brain workout for the morning! Love you bec!


Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 02:47:51 AM by curls
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MJonmind

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 22, 2013, 02:54:35 AM
Curls
Quote
Like this maybe: MJ in secret to top Pepsi exec: " I want to donate some money to a Burns Unit but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I get burnt doing this commercial and then instead of suing you I get you to (pretend) to donate (my) money? Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone wins!"

Similarly, how about:  MJ in secret to top AEG exec: " I want to build a Children's Hospital but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I die preparing for these concerts and then I get my mother to sue you and you (pretend to) pay her billions but it's really my money? After a while we'll come clean! Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone (children especially) wins!"
Both scenarios brilliant! lol And I've already guessed that MJ has way more than a couple of billion. He told Bashir in 2003 that he had around 2 billion, probably being well under the actual amount, and that's 10 years ago. They talk about the lawsuit being for 40 billion in that's what MJ would be earning had he lived. Perhaps MJ is really saying 40 B is what he actually has, albeit cryptically!
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